Batman smarter than Superman?!

[olympichero62]

Everyone always says that Bats is one of the smartest heroes in the DCU. It is often stated that Superman, despite his "Super-Intellect" powers (dumbest power i've ever heard) still doesn't hold a candle to Batman. (Batman with prep can beat thanos, yadda yadda yadda. But according to my sources......

Super-Intellect
Along with his other super-powers, Superman also possesses a super-intellect and other superhuman mental powers. On many occasions Superman has claimed to have a photographic memory and has been able to recall an entire scene in his mind. Superman is described as having a "super-brain," but later texts refer to Superman as having a "super-intellect." He was able to converse fluently with a mermaid despite the fact that her tongue was completely foreign to him because his advanced intellect instantly comprehends her strange language. In one issue he combines his super speed and intellect and reads through a mountain of articles about Superman and one another occasion reads a 500 page book in 10 seconds flat.



So if Superman has powers like this, then why is Batman still considered to be smarter?

[kingpin51]

i think "super-intellect" is a pre-crisis power. Superman is smart but he isn't an uber genious like batman.

[Forsaken_One]

Yes, super-brain, learning at super-speed, etc are all pre-crisis powers.

[VietN]

There is different type of intelligence. I figure in this case it's a matter between the fast or quick thinker and just someone who has indepth intelligence.

Super speed thinking ... basically considering each scenario by trial and error.

Then there's the kind of intelligence that is Efficient, indepth, greater understanding.

[Smokey]

cuz superman can do EVERYTHING else better? lol..ive wondered this before too, i havent really see them portray superman much with a super brain in any of the cartoons, i think they kinda stay away from that as to not make him too powerful, but technically, hes outsmarted kryptonian computers before, so he SHOULD be smarter, but PIS is a wonderful thing

[davids]

And far more nasty and ruthless. Superman sees the best in people, batman see's the worst. Superman belives people are basicly good.
batman knows people are no damn good!

[olympichero62]

There is different type of intelligence. I figure in this case it's a matter between the fast or quick thinker and just someone who has indepth intelligence.

But if someone could think that fast, you would think that over time their brain would evolove and they would begin to think in different ways right?

[Forsaken_One]

But if someone could think that fast, you would think that over time their brain would evolove and they would begin to think in different ways right?
I don't think so. Because individual brains don't evolve. Nor do individual body parts.

You might be able to say the idea of thinking that fast as a child would change the way their brain works and makes connections. But that'd stop around the teenage years, and in the current DCU both Superman and Wally West gained their powers at the tail end of their teenage years.

[RandallFlagg19]

So, is Superman able to read quickly, too? Flash and Kid Flash can (only Kid Flash remembers everything he reads, though). Being able to read quickly does not necessarily equal super-intellect, or Wally and Barry would be some smart cats. Still, it looks like the more you know, the more informed decisions you could make, utilizing whatever IQ you have to its fullest potential.

Clark still may not be smarter than Bruce, but couldn't he certainly sometimes more informed than Bruce on a particular subject (say, if Superman used his superspeed to read every book available on a subject)? Of course, this would necessitate him having a photagraphic memory like Bart, so I don't know.

[mattx110]

batman needs his things to be his and superman already has superstrength and speed and flight. batman needs the edge so he isn't redundant and fans don't complain he has no place in the justice league cause superman is smarter. just what counts as fairness in comicland.

[Forsaken_One]

Clark still may not be smarter than Bruce, but couldn't he certainly sometimes more informed than Bruce on a particular subject (say, if Superman used his superspeed to read every book available on a subject)? Of course, this would necessitate him having a photagraphic memory like Bart, so I don't know.It's been stated that neither Superman nor the Flash can retain anything read at super-speed for more than a few minutes. Now Superman could do this before the Crisis. But currently he cannot. He reads just like the rest of us.

Now it's also been stated that Kid Flash/Bart Allen can retain everything he reads. This does make him more knowledgable about things than... well, pretty much anyone most likely. But this doesn't make him more intelligent; you can have all the information in the world but if you don't know how to use that information to the best effect it'll do nothing for you. Having memorized all of Huck Finn does nothing if you didn't understand it.

[Mia]

So if Superman has powers like this, then why is Batman still considered to be smarter?


Here's a guess. From what I'm reading I think that Superman is more "intellectually" smart in other words he's good with books. Whereas Batman is more street smart...or rather more Machiavellian. Talleyrand would love Batman.

[chriskenny]

While I understand why they go out of their way to make Batman a smarter tactician than other stronger heroes, I think sometimes creators go out of their way to make Superman dumb and naive in order to make threats against him more credible. It is kind of disappointing sometimes.

[Forsaken_One]

While I understand why they go out of their way to make Batman a smarter tactician than other stronger heroes, I think sometimes creators go out of their way to make Superman dumb and naive in order to make threats against him more credible. It is kind of disappointing sometimes.
Because they're not good writers.

[datsyuk]

Yes batman is detective like

[The Joker]

I've always viewed Batman being smarter than Superman. Blame the writers I've read growing up for that.

Bats needs an edge. And making him smarter certainly gives him that much needed edge. Since Superman is essentially a being with God like powers.

Supes is book smart. Looks for the good in people. Is hopeful that the future is bright.

Batman is street smart. Looks for the evil in people. See's the future as being pretty bleak. And who can blame him.

Both are smart, but I would go with Batman being smarter of the two.

[Scubbily]

Of course Batman's smarter than Superman! Superman relies on superhuman strength and such. Batman has to use his intellect to defeat the bad guy. Not to be a movie buff, but in the Batman movie with Val Kilmer and Jim Carrey as The Joker, Batman has to decipher clues to who The Joker really is. I think it's Batman Returns.

[Smokey]

it seems batmans smart out of necessity, what else is there for him to do when you have a GL, WW, and superman to handle shit

[davids]

Batman is cunning, a planer he thinks like a criminal preparing a heist. Superman knows far more raw information, batman knows what he has to know to be sussfull in his crusade. Batman knows that people are no damn good, are stupid and can not be trusted. They must be pushed into doing the right thing, usually out of fear and intimadation.

Superman was taught by martha and jonathan kent that people are basicly good, that they need only to be inspired by a symbol to acheive greatness, to work together to make the world a better place.

Superman and batman both protect society, one with a measure offear, contempt and cynical beliefs in man's weakness. The other with hope and a nieve belief in mankind.

Both work in the hope of a better world! They just do it in diffrent ways and there fore thing in diffrent ways!

[Mia]

The thing is "naive" and "dumb" seem to go hand in hand. I'll never forget when Emma Frost said to Kitty Pryde "Your naivete is neither cute nor useful."

I mean it's nice to believe in people etc. But people who often go around with a "Pollyanish" view of the world end up badly hurt or worse.

[bannermanonemillion]

If Lex Luthor had been a hero, he would've been Batman. Think about all the things that make Luthor dangerous and then see how many apply to Batman.

Luthor is crafty and uses his natural genius in ways Superman never would. Intelligence is one thing but skill is another. So in one sense, Batman is smarter and more clever than Superman but Clark is like a computer, in terms if intelligence.

[Alan2099]

if Luthor was a hero, he wouldn't be nearly as psychotic as Batman.

[datsyuk]

I think superman is a great guy but he isn't all that smart. He's in need of super powers for a reason, no?

[Forsaken_One]

if Luthor was a hero, he wouldn't be nearly as psychotic as Batman.
Is this the same Luthor that thought it'd be a good idea to inject himself with Kryptonite laced post-steroid body enhancers, put on a suit, and fight Superman in public when he was the President of the United States?

If anything, as Loeb writers him, he's more psychotic. And an idiot.

[Xzio]

Great observations by both posters. I think the intelligence that Superman has is utilized differently than how Batman's is. Batman is a detective, the world's greatest detective. He has an analytical approach to his thinking. Batman's intellect is perhaps his greatest asset because it is what keeps him alive. Superman on the other hand has many various abilities and powers but when writers write him they seldom want to portray him using his intellect. Clark is an investigative journalist which requires some creative and deductive reasoning in order to solve mysteries and expose hidden truths. He has a brain that is capable of outhinking computers and processing information faster than Batman but he is seldom portrayed that way. Personally, I would love to see a thinking Superman that utilizes brains rather than resorting to brawn all the time. I believe that Superman should consult with some individuals just to bounce his own theories off of but not to dismiss his own intelligence and run to others for most things. I would like to see a writer write him intelligently. :cool:

[Tecnopage]

Clark is endlessly stuck in a dead end job while Bruce built an empire on his intelect.

[Kevinroc]

Clark is endlessly stuck in a dead end job while Bruce built an empire on his intelect.

The company was owned by Bruce's family, IIRC. And Bruce pretends to be a fool so nobody will ever suspect he is really Batman.

[bannermanonemillion]

Is this the same Luthor that thought it'd be a good idea to inject himself with Kryptonite laced post-steroid body enhancers, put on a suit, and fight Superman in public when he was the President of the United States?

If anything, as Loeb writers him, he's more psychotic. And an idiot.

Uh-uh-uh!! We're all pretending that didn't happen, right?! Besides, the only good thing to come out of Countdown/Infinite Crisis is that Luthor is scary dangerous again.

[TJEscobar]

OK guys I just wanna throw yall some mind wine. Superman is already too powerful as it is. Pre and post crisis is ridiculously strong. I like SUperman but he is the like the perfect example to society so he cant have everything. Does every Superman fan just want him to have it all? Because he already does. Strong, fast (I still can't believe there are ppl that want him to be faster than Flash), X-ray vison, cold breath, ultra hearing vision, and whatever else and on top of that......he has THE PERFECT LIFE. The girl he has lusted after; married to her. Parents; still alive and ticking. Love job; two checks on being Superman and a good reporter. The absolute worst problem I have with Superman is.......no one can find out who he is because he has a spit curl in his hair. Bruce on the other hand goes through what humans go through. Is a terrible leader because he never had a REAL role model. He makes bad decisions that ultimatelty makes or breaks him. Bottom Line, no one puts it together like Batman does. That is his super power.

[Totoro Man]

well... Superman writers rely on his powers SOOO much that he doesn't have a chance to reveal there's a brain inside that super-powered skull of his. if you read the earliest Golden-Age Superman you'll see that he's not the least bit "stupid" compared to the way he's been written lately. honestly, I think Frank Miller and the success of "the Dark Knight Returns" has probably done more than anything else towards this notion of Superman being "dumb" compared to Batman.

Batman, necessarily, has to fight smarter than Supes because one mistake can (and should) kill him. Supes can get away with a lot more because he has so many fantastic powers to draw on when he gets in trouble.

chalk it up to lazy writers. and the powers Supes has make it so very, very easy to be lazy!

[olympichero62]

Bruce on the other hand goes through what humans go through. Is a terrible leader because he never had a REAL role model.

But wasn't Alfred his role model. I would think that Alfred was the guy that kept Bruce going and encouraged him on his road to becoming Batman...Correct me if im out of line.

[TJEscobar]

But wasn't Alfred his role model. I would think that Alfred was the guy that kept Bruce going and encouraged him on his road to becoming Batman...Correct me if im out of line.


Alfred is a mentor, and Bruce learns from him, but he cant replace his dead parents. No one could and the only way for him to fight the pain is Batman. Alfred kept him encouraged but Bruce makes it abundantly clear in multiple scenarios that he was and is still his servant and that never changed.

[Mia]

I think that Bruce, with the help of Lucious Fox, expanded his families empire. He just bought up a great chunk of Lexcorp at a discount rate thanks to Talia Head (what are old girlfriends for?). Not all writers portray Batman as a "fool". The fool act is actually detrimental because it immediatly alerts people to the fact that he's hiding something.

[Mia]

I think that Alfred has either quit or threatened to quit several times because of Bruce's hobby. I was just thinking about this the other day. I really think that Alfred is a close servant or friend. I just get the impression that Bruce looks to Jim Gordon as a father. Tough city cop.

[austin316gb]

... but in the Batman movie with Val Kilmer and Jim Carrey as The Joker, Batman has to decipher clues to who The Joker really is. I think it's Batman Returns.

Jim Carrey is the Riddler and it's Batman Forever.

However the genius behind Batman is his ability to see every move on the board. He considers every possible outcome and eventuality and then acts depending on the best course of action, kinda like a grandmaster at chess.

The fact that he has files on every hero and their strengths and weaknesses shows his preperation is the key. Superman may be clever but he tends to be reactive rather than proactive and those that plan ahead always have the edge

[TJEscobar]

The fact that he has files on every hero and their strengths and weaknesses shows his preperation is the key. Superman may be clever but he tends to be reactive rather than proactive and those that plan ahead always have the edge


I so ahead its what makes Bruce Wayne pimp. He has to be that because he knows he stands no chance in any prolonged battle with these guys.

[HelenaHuntress]

i never realized that superman had a power such as super intellect.... :confused:

[TJEscobar]

Is this the same Luthor that thought it'd be a good idea to inject himself with Kryptonite laced post-steroid body enhancers, put on a suit, and fight Superman in public when he was the President of the United States?

If anything, as Loeb writers him, he's more psychotic. And an idiot. Didn't you see how he was going crazy the whole time. He was not an idiot he was just crazy. His fixation with beating Superman made him that way.

[Wesley Dodds]

Batman's smarter because Batman has OCD. Superman doesn't have a mental illness so he can't compete with Batman.

[Master Darque]

and in the current DCU both Superman and Wally West gained their powers at the tail end of their teenage years.

Uh-uh ....Wally was not at the "tail end " of his teen years .... you need to read Flash Year One , I think . Tail end of his teens he'd have been a member of the Teen Titans , circa Perez/Wolfman .

[666MasterOfPuppets]

And, according to Birthright, Superman started to develop his powers as a child.

As for Superman being smart, he is damn smart. He's a dumb just when he's next to Bat-god.

However, I think that Superman being super-intelligent (or something similar to that) has been brought back thanks to Brian Azzarello. Besides, Superman has been portrayed as being a man with ADVANCED scientific skills: The Army Of Super-Robots, The Satellite Network, and The Vanishing Device (with Metropia included).