What do we know about Rao?

[Mainline]

Krypton was supposed to be a deeply scientific society, which doesn't necessarily mean that it is at odds with being a god-fearing one as well, especially in a universe where they (gods) clearly are real and somewhat numerous. I remember a scene where Superman is amongst the gods of Earth and mentions Rao much to their anger... so apparently they're familiar with Rao.

What do we know about Rao and his Kryptonian religion?

(personally, I find it slightly annoying that Superman "swears" on Rao's name... like saying "Rao" or "Oh my Rao" or "Great Rao!" in exchange for "god" the way WW says, "Hera"- which is slightly more acceptable, if only because she was raised Amazonian and we've gotten used to it over the decades- but for Supes to say it is like Richard Gere swearing "Buddha!")

[kane]

Krypton was supposed to be a deeply scientific society, which doesn't necessarily mean that it is at odds with being a god-fearing one as well, especially in a universe where they (gods) clearly are real and somewhat numerous. I remember a scene where Superman is amongst the gods of Earth and mentions Rao much to their anger... so apparently they're familiar with Rao.

What do we know about Rao and his Kryptonian religion?

(personally, I find it slightly annoying that Superman "swears" on Rao's name... like saying "Rao" or "Oh my Rao" or "Great Rao!" in exchange for "god" the way WW says, "Hera"- which is slightly more acceptable, if only because she was raised Amazonian and we've gotten used to it over the decades- but for Supes to say it is like Richard Gere swearing "Buddha!")


Hm, in Sandman "Endless Nights" there is a story with Rao. Rao is the personification of the kryptonian sun. The story hints that the kryptonian race and the survival of Kal-El was no conicidence, but a making of Rao.

In that story Despair of the endless speaks with Rao some billion years ago.
Quote: "Think about it Rao. Wouldn´t bringing life onto a planet that is inherently unstable add to the beauty of the life. If at any moment it could explode.. Truly it would only be perfectly beautiful, a perfect piece of art, if one single life-form escaped. To remember, to mourn, to despair."

[Sean Whitmore]

Wasn't there a prestige format one-shot where Superman fought a woman claiming to be Rao? I'm pretty sure it wasn't actually Rao, but it must have had some insight to Kryptonian religion in it.


SEAN

[Toreador]

Was that the one painted by Hildebrandt? I think she was Rao's lover/enemy, she thought that Superman was a child of Rao. It's been years since I read so I don't remember much about it.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

That story is called "Superman: The Last God Of Krypton". Basically, the godess you talk about is Cythonna, Goddess Of Ice.

When Krypton was a primitive planet, Rao held a war against Cythonna, which was later referred to as "The Wars Of Fire and Ice". Cythonna lost, and was imprisoned by Rao in some kind of interdimensional stuff. She managed to escape, and started to look for Kal-El, The Last Kryptonian (and arguably a direct descendant of Rao himself. This hasn't been confirmed yet, unfortunately), in order to kill him and have her ultimate revenge on Rao (who BTW, had abandoned Krypton millennia before it exploded).

Superman and Cythonna held a final battle in the sun, resulting in Superman's victory, imprisoning Cythonna in the sun's core, due to its gravity. BTW, and don't ask me why, but Lois uses a Kryptonian War Suit and saves Superman from dying from lack of air (which doesn't make sense, BTW).

As for the other gods (Zeus included) being at odds with Rao, it was never cleared up/resolved. I asked this to Eddie Berganza in the Fan Forum at the Superman Homepage. He just answered that that was a plot from the previous creative teams, and that "something cool can be done with that".

To this day, I AM STILL WAITING, DAMMIT.

[Smokey]

so how powerful is rao? in odins range? more powerful? seems like a kryptonian god would be much stronger than an earth god

[666MasterOfPuppets]

so how powerful is rao? in odins range? more powerful? seems like a kryptonian god would be much stronger than an earth god

I couldn't tell. And honestly, I don't know if anyone in this forum could. There's so little information about Rao, that telling you how powerful he is would be a very long shot.

[PatrickG]

There was some information Pre-Crisis although I admit it's sparse.

Pre-Crisis, when Kandor was enlarged, the new planet was called Rokyn which meant "Rao's Gift" in Kryptonese. There has been a reference to Rokyn in the new LSH series.

[Smokey]

also in STAS in the 2 parter blast from the past, jaxx ur says something like "almighty rao has brought me full circle"

[crankyoldman]

Does anyone know when references to Rao first started to be made in Superman? I grew up reading them in the 70s and 80s, and know from reprints that they weren't that common before then, but I never knew what early stories they originated in, which might be helpful for context.

[Smokey]

i think it would be kinda cool if superman was a descendant of rao, it would explain why he usually was able to defeat other kryptonians.. also they could tinker with that a bit and have rao get rid of that pesky magic vulnerability

[Loren]

Here's a completely non-canon explanation of 'Rao,' from Cei-U's book "Lash House."

In the book, Superman at one point says that the Kryptonian name for his home planet was Rao, not Krypton. The name 'Krypton' instead came from the Earth scientist (Ted Knight, I think it says) who first studied Kryptonite, and coined the term because it contained substantial amounts of the element Krypton.

Loren

[Gordon Smith]

Rao doesn't appear to be mentioned in Michael Fleisher's reference work on Superman. Of course, Fleisher made only the most sparing use of data from the secondary Superman titles (Superboy, Jimmy Olsen, etc), so it's possible Rao could have appeared in one of those books or strips. I'm thinking that Cary Bates probably wrote the first significant mention of Rao, most likely in the early seventies.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

i think it would be kinda cool if superman was a descendant of rao, it would explain why he usually was able to defeat other kryptonians.. also they could tinker with that a bit and have rao get rid of that pesky magic vulnerability

It would be nice that the story that DC had planned with Rao was actually developed AND published.

As for Superman being descendant of the Great God Rao, that has always been rumored, but never confirmed. It would be cool if that were cleared up once and for all.

[Anti-Lad]

The earth element named Krypton is a noble gas. I do not think it can bond to another element like oxygen can.

[Kid Seven]

I loved that 'apperance' by Rao in Endless Nights. Oa too.

[PatrickG]

Rao is the name of the red sun that Krypton orbited.

Rao was also the name of their sun god who was king of their pantheon. Eventually, worship of other gods ended and Krypton was a monotheistic culture.

[Indigo Al]

Rao is the name of the red sun that Krypton orbited.

Rao was also the name of their sun god who was king of their pantheon. Eventually, worship of other gods ended and Krypton was a monotheistic culture.

Yeah, I think this was explained in the Krypton Chronicles miniseries that was published in the early 80s. That series went into Superman's ancestry and Kryptonian history, and basically paralleled a whole bunch of Bliblical stories and American history.

[DMike]

Well it's always nice to know that everything in the universe harkens back to Christian America :rolleyes: .

[Enda8011]

http://www.bluetights.net/theplanet/showthread.php?t=5743

[Enda8011]

Well it's always nice to know that everything in the universe harkens back to Christian America :rolleyes: .

Omega Syndrome in Trek

[Kirayoshi]

Omega Syndrome in TrekI think you meant either "The Omega Glory"(post-apocalyptic state with two tribes, mirroring Yankies and Commies). Or "Bread and Circuses"(modern-day Rome, with a renegade tribe of sun(Son) worshipers).

[PatrickG]

They only look like Americans if you happen to be one.

My ideal Krypton would be a very complicated and developed world that, from the right angle, anyone could see their own culture in.

I have no problem with Jor-El as a suburban Buck Rogers though.

[JulianPerez]

References to Rao began to creep into Superman's lingo in the 1970s under the editorship and policy of Julie Schwartz, and considering Schwartz's science fiction background it was not surprising.

Rao was, at first, god of the red Kryptonian Sun in the earliest periods of Krypton's history. Krypton in the early periods was polytheistic, and worship was made of other deities such as Yuda, who was identified as the goddess of Krypton's five moons, and Kara, who was the ancient Kryptonian goddess of beauty.

In fact, in the earliest period of Krypton's history, worship of Rao was such that any soldier that had red hair was given an automatic comission.

Later on, however in Kryptonian history, Rao went from being the sun to a much more cosmic, monotheistic concept, which is "he who ignited the sun." A lot of this is described in detail in E. Nelson Bridwell's (excellent) Krypton Chronicles.

As one would imagine on a super-scientific utopia like Krypton where scientists control the government, the influence of religion on Kryptonian society is nearly negligible.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Let's not forget about Cythonna, the goddess of Ice, who fought against the Great Rao in the "Wars of Fire and Ice" (which was explained in "The Last God Of Krypton" one-shot). She's currently trapped in the sun's core.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I loved that 'apperance' by Rao in Endless Nights. Oa too.

Indeed. And he's portrayed different to his appearance in "The Last God Of Krypton".

BTW , I wonder when will we see anything new about Rao...

[JulianPerez]

Rao, strictly speaking, was not the Kryptonian sun; one story established that Krypton's sun was created by a race of plasmabodied creatures who set up shop at the center of suns. If Rao existed outside of Kryptonian myth and literature, as Gaiman seems to suggest, he was not the "sun" itself, at least to the extent that the "living suns" were in JLA #79 (1969).

Is it possible there may be a connection between Rao and the wizard Shazam? Unlikely; there was no Krypton on Earth-S. However, Shazam was able to create gates to other earths on various occasions. And it was stated that Shazamo, Shazam's cloven hooved, "evil god" student, WAS said to travel far to acquire mystic power. Though he had no reason to stop in Krypton's sector; Krypton had no magic inclination and no sorcerors. Even Circe committed her "magic" just with superior Krypton science.

Intriguingly, it was suggested in the 1987 POWER OF SHAZAM mini that Shazam is one of the few beings that remembers the multiverse as it was.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Indeed. It's pretty clear that Rao is not the sun per se, but a living, sentient, god-level being.

As for Shazam, it makes sense that such a sorcerer actually remembers the Pre-CoIE multiverse.

Very interesting that piece of info regarding Krypton's sun creation. Thanks.

[JulianPerez]

Indeed. It's pretty clear that Rao is not the sun per se, but a living, sentient, god-level being.

As for Shazam, it makes sense that such a sorcerer actually remembers the Pre-CoIE multiverse.

Very interesting that piece of info regarding Krypton's sun creation. Thanks.

:)

Haven't you heard? Everything on Krypton is more interesting than on Earth. It's a rule. The most common element on that planet was GOLD, for Rao's sake.

Though the plasm-creatures first appeared in a Superman story, where Superman gives them a home in a new sun.

[PatrickG]

There was a subplot a few years ago where we learned that Earth's pagan gods were displeased with Rao. The story never went anywhere due to MAN OF STEEL's cancellation.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

:)

Haven't you heard? Everything on Krypton is more interesting than on Earth. It's a rule. The most common element on that planet was GOLD, for Rao's sake.

Though the plasm-creatures first appeared in a Superman story, where Superman gives them a home in a new sun.

Cool.

As for Krypton being more interesting, that's how it should be.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

There was a subplot a few years ago where we learned that Earth's pagan gods were displeased with Rao. The story never went anywhere due to MAN OF STEEL's cancellation.

That happened during "The Pantheon Of the Gods" storyarc, where Lois becomes a godess for a brief time, thanks to the machinations of other evil gods, who wanted to lure Superman into their pantheon, in order to become popular again (and Superman fights said gods).

Eddie Berganza said once that "something cool can be done with that" (because I asked him in an "Ask Eddie").

And nothing happened.

[PatrickG]

I saw or heard a comment by Berganza that he had to drop that story (along with others like Ignition's origin).

Joe Casey's flat out said that they had an over-arching story approved that the company went back on after signing off on. I think this happened about the time Jeph Loeb left SUPERMAN.

From what I understand, RETURN TO KRYPTON II and THE HARVEST were changed once, maybe a couple of times, from what was initially approved to what was published.

There are several people with industry contacts who claim that the Silver Age Krypton was planned as the real one (and this jives with the WIZARD interview about it) but that the plan changed, possibly to accomodate BIRTHRIGHT.

Also, from what I understand, Zod was ORIGINALLY planned to be the Zod from RETURN TO KRYPTON but that when that plan fell through, he was planned to be the Kal-El from RETURN TO KRYPTON II, rocketed to Russia. When THAT plan fell through, he became the child of cosmonauts who was mutated by meteor rocks and given plastic surgery.

Pretty much starting with OUR WORLDS AT WAR, Berganza's tenure was somewhat tempered by company edicts.

OWAW, for instance, was planned as a Superman title event. But then DC execs more or less showed up with a "kill list" and had it expanded into a company-wide crossover.

Thing is, I really liked Berganza's books early on. The more DC management started suggesting ideas, the less I liked it.

By the end, the story directions and talent recruitment were being done outside Eddie's office from the looks of it.

I know Lee/Azzarello (IMO the weakest of the titles at the time) and Byrne/Simone (enjoyable but feels like a fill-in run) were placed on their books by Dan Didio. Didio is also the one who greenlit Kara's return and the Doom Patrol relaunch, as I understand it.

Didio has done a lot of great things at DC. And I'm glad Kara is back.

Sidebar: I can't help but feel that Loeb rather coyly setup Kara's return before Didio approved it; he tends to drop hints in his stories and then let the editor connect the dots on where he's going based on the interviews I've read. That's how Luthor got elected president. He practically had him campaigning by the time Eddie Berganza more or less called him on it and more or less said, "You sly devil. I see where you're going with this. Let's go for it."

Still, I feel like most of the controversies about Berganza were over things that other people over his head did... But that he couldn't distance himself from his bosses' decisions as a professional. Beyond this, I think Berganza has been a pot-stirrer -- which is a good thing. On the issue of Cir-El, for instance, I think she was planned as a cannon fodder character, not a "replacement Supergirl" as some PAD fans think. When there was some initial interest, Berganza MAY have considered -- for a week or two -- the idea of keeping her around. But as near as I can tell, she was already slated to bite the big one by the time fans were really calling for her head.

Heck, as I understand it, Kara Zor-El was already being planned for a DCU introduction by the time Cir-El appeared... Before PAD's title was cancelled.

But as for Berganza himself, I've always found it funny that people hate him so much. Sales on titles he edits go up compared to where they were before he came along. And people have loved virtually every non-Superman book he worked on as editor or that he supervised (such as DnA's Legion relaunch, pre-Winick Kyle Rayner GL, Young Justice, Teen Titans, Birds of Prey, etc.).

Also, without big name talent, books generally seem to go down in sales after Eddie leaves them.

I really think he's unfairly maligned.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I absolutely agree.

It's not like he's a bad editor. However, I didn't have the whole picture of the situation until now, when you posted it (thanks).

I very much like his Superman books. And I think Azarrello/Lee was a move in the right direction, but that's just me.

Still, I wondered why this guy is so hated. Not by everyone, that's for sure, but still hated. I think his run was good, and since he's moving to the JLA book(s), well, things will be good there as well.