View Full Version : DC Trades
LordKaos
03-19-2005, 06:19 AM
Does anyone know how long it Takes DC to make their Trades? Alot of new comics are coming like Days of Vengence but I dislike getting singles
Does anyone know how long it Takes DC to make their Trades? Alot of new comics are coming like Days of Vengence but I dislike getting singles
Then don't read DC. They take forever to put out trades and are less comprehensive with what they collect than other companies.
The Adventurer
03-19-2005, 07:17 AM
DC puts out alot of Collected Editons, why I just bought two this wendsday, Nikola Dante: The Romanov Dynisty and Miss: Better Living Through Crime. And the week before Charland Antholgoy #2: Freddy Lambart.
Oh wait you're talking about putting books you can already buy off the rack into collected editions, because god forbid anyone would check out something that you can't get in any other format that kicks anything mainstream out of the water.
DC is slow in releasing trades of thier Mainstream books because they relise what Trades are, Collections of Issues you buy if you missed an arc previously and/or to collect hard to find runs.
TPBs should not be your primary way of buying titles, it's a rip off. Buy single issues, Original Graphic Novels of NEW Material, and Trades of Import comics like what 2000AD and Humaniods have coming out state side. Diversify!
niall mc cann
03-19-2005, 03:43 PM
I wish DC were faster and more conscientious about getting trades out.
I really only buy trades now, and sometimes it can take an age for me to get my hands on a new DC tpb.
It's a pity. It can be frustrating, especially when marvel have so many coming out that sometimes it's hard to keep up.
DC puts out alot of Collected Editons, why I just bought two this wendsday, Nikola Dante: The Romanov Dynisty and Miss: Better Living Through Crime. And the week before Charland Antholgoy #2: Freddy Lambart.
Oh wait you're talking about putting books you can already buy off the rack into collected editions, because god forbid anyone would check out something that you can't get in any other format that kicks anything mainstream out of the water.
DC is slow in releasing trades of thier Mainstream books because they relise what Trades are, Collections of Issues you buy if you missed an arc previously and/or to collect hard to find runs.
TPBs should not be your primary way of buying titles, it's a rip off. Buy single issues, Original Graphic Novels of NEW Material, and Trades of Import comics like what 2000AD and Humaniods have coming out state side. Diversify!
And what if you miss a book's best arc, enjoy reading many issues in one go, prefer to see an arc in it's entirety instead of perching on artificial cliffhangers month after month or want to get into a young series but haven't read the first 6 or 7 issues?
Idon't mean they're slow with mainstream, I mean if it isn't JLA, JSA, Supes, Batman, GL or Flash then they ignore huge chunks of issues between trades. Supergirl, Gotham Central and BoP are perfect examples. I didn't read any of them early on but was interested in finding out how the characters developed but the trades are either random, jump over huge numbers of issues and big developments, or don't get released at all.
Reading monthly is important but picking up trades, which is how I got started so without them the industry would be minus at least one fan, does not make you a "lesser" fan or demean the industry in some way.
And it's the best way to pick up indie stuff here, they don't often get imported monthly, I got Fade From Blue and Blue Monday that way.
PS - Attacking fans, and potential fans isn't the best way to help out the diminishing comics industry.
Expletive Deleted
03-19-2005, 04:45 PM
DC doesn't put everything out in trades and they sometimes wait a little too long, but they're much better at keeping stuff in print.
DC doesn't put everything out in trades and they sometimes wait a little too long, but they're much better at keeping stuff in print.
I don't know much about that side so i shall bow to your wisdom. *bows*
I just got steamed at the snobbish attitude of "monthly or don't bother!" :o Sorry, everybody that doesn't feel like that!:(
Astonishing X-Fan
03-19-2005, 05:15 PM
Marvel is SO great when it comes to putting out trades. Almost ALL of their titles get trades for every arc, and they're released usually only a month or two after the arc finishes.
DC, on the other hand, is awful with their trades.
Marvel is SO great when it comes to putting out trades. Almost ALL of their titles get trades for every arc, and they're released usually only a month or two after the arc finishes.
DC, on the other hand, is awful with their trades.
Image do that too, as do Dark Horse.
Beastfan07
03-19-2005, 06:48 PM
Marvel is SO great when it comes to putting out trades. Almost ALL of their titles get trades for every arc, and they're released usually only a month or two after the arc finishes.
DC, on the other hand, is awful with their trades.
That actually kind of bugs me.
Captain Jim
03-19-2005, 06:55 PM
If a current Marvel title and/or arc is popular, look for a tpb almost immediately. But they have tons of classic stuff that they will never reprint.
People need to realize that the fan market is not the primary target for trades; they are produced largely for casual readers in the mass market.
Forsaken_One
03-19-2005, 07:19 PM
DC seems to do pretty well with Vertigo trades.
If a current Marvel title and/or arc is popular, look for a tpb almost immediately. But they have tons of classic stuff that they will never reprint.
People need to realize that the fan market is not the primary target for trades; they are produced largely for casual readers in the mass market.
Even unpopular stuff gets tpb'd, Alpha Flight anyone? And the Essentials series is being used to reprint older stuff.
Brian R
03-20-2005, 09:27 PM
The thing is, Marvel's policy regarding trades actually hurts their monthly numbers. Witness my three favorite Marvel books: Supreme Power, The Ultimates, Astonishing X-Men, all three of which I get in trade format. I can do this with Marvel because I know the trades will be out very quickly, and its cheaper overall and I prefer the feel of it.
I dont do this for all Marvel books, but for ones which I will only be on for a certain period like Whedon on AXM and Millar on Ultimates.
The thing is, Marvel's policy regarding trades actually hurts their monthly numbers. Witness my three favorite Marvel books: Supreme Power, The Ultimates, Astonishing X-Men, all three of which I get in trade format. I can do this with Marvel because I know the trades will be out very quickly, and its cheaper overall and I prefer the feel of it.
I dont do this for all Marvel books, but for ones which I will only be on for a certain period like Whedon on AXM and Millar on Ultimates.
However,I'm wary of buying newer DC AT ALL if I can't see the early runs in tpb. BoP really annoyed me in this respect, it jumps from#5 to #52 in trades. Huge plot development is skipped over because of that.
Brian R
03-21-2005, 12:51 AM
However,I'm wary of buying newer DC AT ALL if I can't see the early runs in tpb. BoP really annoyed me in this respect, it jumps from#5 to #52 in trades. Huge plot development is skipped over because of that.
Yes, that needs to be fixed.
Yes, that needs to be fixed.
The BoP thing or this policy in general? Cos if it's the former,I'll badger Gail about it on YABS. :D
Brian R
03-21-2005, 12:58 AM
The BoP thing or this policy in general? Cos if it's the former,I'll badger Gail about it on YABS. :D
Well, BoP yes, but the policy in general. I dont mind that DC waits longer than Marvel, as I believe its intentional, but there shouldnt be holes in the collections like that, so that should be rectified.
I think the ideal would be somewhere in between Marvel and DC. :)
Well, BoP yes, but the policy in general. I dont mind that DC waits longer than Marvel, as I believe its intentional, but there shouldnt be holes in the collections like that, so that should be rectified.
I think the ideal would be somewhere in between Marvel and DC. :)
Marvel's completist nature and DCs patience? Nice.
And fix that with BoP, DC. Fix it, damn you!
fuaak
03-21-2005, 02:14 AM
When I take over the world, everything will be released in paperbacks and ONLY in paperbacks. Magazines with less than 100 pages of content per issue will be banned. Who the hell even WANTS to buy floppies? They're awful to read, awful to own, full of ads, hopelessly overpriced and fall apart if you so much as look at them. The paperback format is the way to go.
I'm still waiting for my Harley Quinn trades.
When I take over the world, everything will be released in paperbacks and ONLY in paperbacks. Magazines with less than 100 pages of content per issue will be banned. Who the hell even WANTS to buy floppies? They're awful to read, awful to own, full of ads, hopelessly overpriced and fall apart if you so much as look at them. The paperback format is the way to go.
I'm still waiting for my Harley Quinn trades.
I agree, with the first point, and last one here. The monthly format is like a Tv show, with the tpb as the dvd you buy after the season's done.
The Adventurer
03-21-2005, 06:04 AM
Who the hell even WANTS to buy floppies? They're awful to read, awful to own, full of ads, hopelessly overpriced and fall apart if you so much as look at them.
.
I do. They are a unique medium that no other can match, they're easy to store, only Marvel and DC books are full of ads, the prices are about par for paper prices, and I've never had a stapled comic fall appart, I've had far more TPBs fall appart due to shody gluing.
I'm with you with the 100 page magizines though, the number of ads in some of those things is criminal.
kcekada
03-21-2005, 06:51 AM
Regarding monthlies vs TPBs.
Unless it's Superman or Batman, your best bet with DC is to buy the monthlies...then if a series or arc is collected...you can always sell them on ebay. If you're strictly a TPB buyer, you're going to miss out on some great issues...end of story.
I think the Marvel's Essentials is an interesting concept, but the stories lose so much without the coloring. The art wasn't created to be printed in black & white, and it shows.
Matches Malone
03-21-2005, 07:38 AM
However,I'm wary of buying newer DC AT ALL if I can't see the early runs in tpb. BoP really annoyed me in this respect, it jumps from#5 to #52 in trades. Huge plot development is skipped over because of that.
Not really. That might be true if the entire BoP series was one big ongoing story, but it's not. Gail's run might be seen that way, as there are lots of continuing plot threads, but there weren't as many during Dixon's run, and the Moore/ Hernandez issues were awful.
I don't really see the need to reprint EVERY single issue of every comic published. It's fine with me if they skip over inventory issues, fill-ins, and such. TPB's aren't aimed at completionist collectors; they're aimed at readers.
BTW BoP #20-21 are in the "Nightwing: Hunt for Oracle" tpb, #27 is in "Officer Down", and most of #39-41 and 43 are in the "Bruce Wayne: Murderer?" and "Bruce Wayne: Fugitive" tpbs.
noodleboy
03-21-2005, 08:00 AM
Not really. That might be true if the entire BoP series was one big ongoing story, but it's not. Gail's run might be seen that way, as there are lots of continuing plot threads, but there weren't as many during Dixon's run, and the Moore/ Hernandez issues were awful.
I don't really see the need to reprint EVERY single issue of every comic published. It's fine with me if they skip over inventory issues, fill-ins, and such. TPB's aren't aimed at completionist collectors; they're aimed at readers.
BTW BoP #20-21 are in the "Nightwing: Hunt for Oracle" tpb, #27 is in "Officer Down", and most of #39-41 and 43 are in the "Bruce Wayne: Murderer?" and "Bruce Wayne: Fugitive" tpbs.
I totally agree.
Someone asked why in the latest Fables TPB why issue #22 was collected with 28-33 and not in it's sequential order. I told them that DC does not let TPB collection style dictate how they do comics. As it turns out, issue 22 was a stand alone featuring Bigby Wolf and it fit better collectively with issue 28-33. Similar with the Bop issues that were part of a crossover listed above.
In essence, DC's trades are not just a retelling, but more of what content they choose to collect for their targeted reader. For instance, the Scarecrow TPB that is coming out has material from multiple decades collected.
fuaak
03-21-2005, 09:42 AM
Regarding monthlies vs TPBs.
Unless it's Superman or Batman, your best bet with DC is to buy the monthlies...then if a series or arc is collected...you can always sell them on ebay. If you're strictly a TPB buyer, you're going to miss out on some great issues...end of story.
True, that's the smart way - but only because DC's "only the best selling 10% goes to trade, and even them a year late" policy sucks like a vampire mosquito porn star in a black hole. Especially since most of the titles nowadays are written in trade-sized arcs, but many never reach that stage.
Not really. That might be true if the entire BoP series was one big ongoing story, but it's not. Gail's run might be seen that way, as there are lots of continuing plot threads, but there weren't as many during Dixon's run, and the Moore/ Hernandez issues were awful.
I don't really see the need to reprint EVERY single issue of every comic published. It's fine with me if they skip over inventory issues, fill-ins, and such. TPB's aren't aimed at completionist collectors; they're aimed at readers.
BTW BoP #20-21 are in the "Nightwing: Hunt for Oracle" tpb, #27 is in "Officer Down", and most of #39-41 and 43 are in the "Bruce Wayne: Murderer?" and "Bruce Wayne: Fugitive" tpbs.
It is jarring however to skip ANY development in Dinah and Babs' friendship. They go from strangers at odds with one another to the best pals Gail writes. I can understand skipping filler but when big developments are jumped or made difficult to get it makes the experience less satisfying. I said it earlier, trades to me are the DVD after the TV show ends for the season. If episodes which are pointless or dull are missing,it can be understood, if whole season are missing, then it is frustrating. You miss the introduction of characters, (I baerely know why Helena is with the Birds ) and developments in the existing ones.
It's really a company approach thing, DC looks at monthlies as one-off stories and Marvel looks at them as part of a whole. I can deal with not having every issue traded of Action or Detective, it would be difficult to put every one in that form, but successful current ongoings should be aware that trades broaden the audience base to normal bookstores and are a valuable means of getting new readers into comics or enticing others into trying new books without the fear of being lost in relation to plot or characters.
AlanScott606
03-21-2005, 10:20 AM
I would like to see DC put out the Low priced digest sized trades like Marvel does. Since they are priced fairly cheap compared to most trades, DC could put out the stuff they wouldn't want to release in the higher priced trade format
I think it would help more people give titles they normaly wouldn't try an affordable way to see if they like the series.
Matches Malone
03-21-2005, 10:54 AM
It is jarring however to skip ANY development in Dinah and Babs' friendship. They go from strangers at odds with one another to the best pals Gail writes. I can understand skipping filler but when big developments are jumped or made difficult to get it makes the experience less satisfying. I said it earlier, trades to me are the DVD after the TV show ends for the season. If episodes which are pointless or dull are missing,it can be understood, if whole season are missing, then it is frustrating. You miss the introduction of characters, (I baerely know why Helena is with the Birds ) and developments in the existing ones.
Appropos nothing re: your larger point, but as regards BoP:
1. The issues where Dinah and Babs finally meet face to face are collected in the Hunt for Oracle trade.
2. The Huntress stuff is all Gail; she doesn't appear in any of the uncollected BoP issues.
Matches Malone
03-21-2005, 10:55 AM
I would like to see DC put out the Low priced digest sized trades like Marvel does. Since they are priced fairly cheap compared to most trades, DC could put out the stuff they wouldn't want to release in the higher priced trade format
I think it would help more people give titles they normaly wouldn't try an affordable way to see if they like the series.
They do put out digests. Usually it's for the "all-ages" titles, like Teen Titans Go, Batman Adventures, etc., but they're out there.
Appropos nothing re: your larger point, but as regards BoP:
1. The issues where Dinah and Babs finally meet face to face are collected in the Hunt for Oracle trade.
2. The Huntress stuff is all Gail; she doesn't appear in any of the uncollected BoP issues.
I'm getting the Nightwing trades anyway, so I'll get to them. But had I not I would never have known. I can understand the reasoning but it is a pet peeve of mine as regards DC.
As far as the other point on Fables, I have no problems with true one-offs being included out of order, as long as they're there somwhere. And Vertigo always collects everything quickly, unlike regular DC. Strange. :confused:
AlanScott606
03-21-2005, 11:08 AM
They do put out digests. Usually it's for the "all-ages" titles, like Teen Titans Go, Batman Adventures, etc., but they're out there.
I'm talking about stuff that isn't aimed solely at children. I am talking about more main stream books. There are a ton of books that get very little if any TPB treatment and I would love to see them released in digest form.
I wish DC were faster and more conscientious about getting trades out.
I really only buy trades now, and sometimes it can take an age for me to get my hands on a new DC tpb.
It's a pity. It can be frustrating, especially when marvel have so many coming out that sometimes it's hard to keep up.
A little bird told me that DC TPB are put out on the whims of editors.
Matches Malone
03-21-2005, 11:13 AM
I'm talking about stuff that isn't aimed solely at children. I am talking about more main stream books. There are a ton of books that get very little if any TPB treatment and I would love to see them released in digest form.
The "all-ages" books are pretty much the only ones Marvel puts out as digests, either. Even books like Runaways and Emma Frost got repackaged under the Marvel Age line (or whatever they're calling it now).
Matches Malone
03-21-2005, 11:15 AM
I'm getting the Nightwing trades anyway, so I'll get to them. But had I not I would never have known. I can understand the reasoning but it is a pet peeve of mine as regards DC.
As far as the other point on Fables, I have no problems with true one-offs being included out of order, as long as they're there somwhere. And Vertigo always collects everything quickly, unlike regular DC. Strange. :confused:
Vertigo has a two-trade minimum guarantee for all new series. They're not great at finishing series up, though, as evidenced by the unfinished Human Target and American Century tpbs.
I think the reason for the different philosophies is that the Vertigo tpbs tend to sell much better than the mid-line DCU stuff.
Vertigo has a two-trade minimum guarantee for all new series. They're not great at finishing series up, though, as evidenced by the unfinished Human Target and American Century tpbs.
I think the reason for the different philosophies is that the Vertigo tpbs tend to sell much better than the mid-line DCU stuff.
Thank you for being more reasonable and civil in this than Adventurer, btw.
That's probably true for Vertigo, as those titles really rely on continuity and make you want to catch up.
I just get annoyed because I wouldn't be a a fan without Marvel's trades. Knowing I can start from early on and catch up makes me more comfortable and feel less of an "outsider" when picking up books. And getting back issues for recent (less than 5-10 year old) stuff is VERY difficult, thus trades can be an invaluable means of trying new things or catching up on parts you may have missed. DCs more stand-alone style is less suited to this, I know but it is potentially harmful to alienate possible fans like myself. (One of my best friends won't read DC for this reason)
Matches Malone
03-21-2005, 11:47 AM
I just get annoyed because I wouldn't be a a fan without Marvel's trades. Knowing I can start from early on and catch up makes me more comfortable and feel less of an "outsider" when picking up books. And getting back issues for recent (less than 5-10 year old) stuff is VERY difficult, thus trades can be an invaluable means of trying new things or catching up on parts you may have missed. DCs more stand-alone style is less suited to this, I know but it is potentially harmful to alienate possible fans like myself. (One of my best friends won't read DC for this reason)
Actually I'm a huge tpb guy; vastly prefer them to monthlies. I've gotten into a lot of Marvels for that reason, and it *is* nice to know that a series is likely to be collected. I understand DC's policy, though - was there really a market for an Alpha Flight tpb, for example?
As for timeliness, I do wonder if Marvel cannibalizes some of its monthly sales. The big reason DC doesn't do speedier tpbs is that the single issues are available for re-order for 6-8 months after the issue hits the stands. Printing the tpb kills re-order activity. Marvel has the no-overprint policy, and thus no similar concern. If you track DC's "sold out" announcements, you'll see that those books tend to get to tpb's faster than others.
Actually I'm a huge tpb guy; vastly prefer them to monthlies. I've gotten into a lot of Marvels for that reason, and it *is* nice to know that a series is likely to be collected. I understand DC's policy, though - was there really a market for an Alpha Flight tpb, for example?
As for timeliness, I do wonder if Marvel cannibalizes some of its monthly sales. The big reason DC doesn't do speedier tpbs is that the single issues are available for re-order for 6-8 months after the issue hits the stands. Printing the tpb kills re-order activity. Marvel has the no-overprint policy, and thus no similar concern. If you track DC's "sold out" announcements, you'll see that those books tend to get to tpb's faster than others.
But does that hurt their newer titles, someone may wish to buy Fallen Angel but is unsure due to the continuity issue. A handy tpb would help him decide but oops, this book didn't sell well initially so no trial for you, pal! Deep end or nothing! :p
It's a fine balance whcih I'm not sure Dc has gotten quite yet. She-Hulk and Runaways would have sunk without tpb's, now Runaways is one of Marvel's bigger sellers.
Expletive Deleted
03-21-2005, 02:46 PM
She-Hulk and Runaways would have sunk without tpb's, now Runaways is one of Marvel's bigger sellers.Not for nothing, but both did sink in their first runs, even with quick TPBs.
RUNAWAYS isn't one of Marvel's biggest sellers, at least in single-issue form. I hate to go by chart position instead of ICV2's numbers, but to judge from the February sheet, RUNAWAYS v2 #1 looks to be debuting in the mid-to-low 30k range. That's not bad, by any means, but it's nowhere near where even some of the mid-range X-Books chart.
Not for nothing, but both did sink in their first runs, even with quick TPBs.
RUNAWAYS isn't one of Marvel's biggest sellers, at least in single-issue form. I hate to go by chart position instead of ICV2's numbers, but to judge from the February sheet, RUNAWAYS v2 #1 looks to be debuting in the mid-to-low 30k range. That's not bad, by any means, but it's nowhere near where even some of the mid-range X-Books chart.
I meant permenantly, the trades let Marvel know there was an audience.
And I wasn't positive but I knew it was doing solid, hence "biggER" and not "biggEST".
Matches Malone
03-21-2005, 04:27 PM
But does that hurt their newer titles, someone may wish to buy Fallen Angel but is unsure due to the continuity issue. A handy tpb would help him decide but oops, this book didn't sell well initially so no trial for you, pal! Deep end or nothing! :p
Not sure if you just picked FA randomly as an example, but there *is* a FA tpb. It didn't sell very well, either.
Captain Jim
03-21-2005, 09:00 PM
I think the recent BOP's have been collected and the older ones have not largely because BOP has become somewhat of a "hot" book under the current creators, something it never was in the past. And while it's true that several of Dixon's issues have been collected in various bat-trades, the majority have not. Perhaps this is something DC should look into, given the current interest in the book. Most of Chuck's stories were pretty solid, and many have wonderful art by the likes of Greg Land and Butch Guice. Perhaps it would help if Gail suggested it to TPTB. After all, we know that she herself has a positive regard for these stories.
I think the recent BOP's have been collected and the older ones have not largely because BOP has become somewhat of a "hot" book under the current creators, something it never was in the past. And while it's true that several of Dixon's issues have been collected in various bat-trades, the majority have not. Perhaps this is something DC should look into, given the current interest in the book. Most of Chuck's stories were pretty solid, and many have wonderful art by the likes of Greg Land and Butch Guice. Perhaps it would help if Gail suggested it to TPTB. After all, we know that she herself has a positive regard for these stories.
I'm posting this on YABS!
dancj
03-22-2005, 04:46 AM
But does that hurt their newer titles, someone may wish to buy Fallen Angel but is unsure due to the continuity issue. A handy tpb would help him decide but oops, this book didn't sell well initially so no trial for you, pal! Deep end or nothing! :p
Just for the record, there IS a fallen angel TPB - I got it for my birthday
dancj
03-22-2005, 04:48 AM
TPBs should not be your primary way of buying titles, it's a rip off. Buy single issues, Original Graphic Novels of NEW Material, and Trades of Import comics like what 2000AD and Humaniods have coming out state side. Diversify!
Of course, paying less per issue to have something nice and squarebound that you can put on your bookshelf without any adverts in is an obvious rip-off.
I thought the people who thought you "shouldn't" primarily buy trades were dying out
The Adventurer
03-22-2005, 08:03 AM
Of course, paying less per issue to have something nice and squarebound that you can put on your bookshelf without any adverts in is an obvious rip-off.
I thought the people who thought you "shouldn't" primarily buy trades were dying out
Not me. I love buying Square Bound Graphic Novels of stuff I can't get in any other format, Manga, European Comics, Original Graphic Novels, long long out of print reprint material, and an arc I may have missed from a new book that I'm now reading in Singles. BUT I will not buy a TPB of a book that's still on the shelf, it's not cheaper, your average Marvel TPB cost 16 bucks for 6 issues, 6 issues on the shelf runs about 2.50 an issue making the total $15. You're spending an aditional dollor (not much, but it nullifies your point). And don't talk to me about "Manga Sized TPBs" Those things are abominations, shrinking the art to tiny sizes is not a selling point in my book, even if the book costs 10 bucks. I'll pay 16 for the right dimentions.
Like I said, I'll buy OGLs like they're going out of style, I've got book shelves FULL of DC and Image OGLs and Prestige Miniserieses. But leave TPBs to the Back Issues, like they were made to do.
Astonishing X-Fan
03-22-2005, 08:28 AM
The fact that DC has solicitations through June and we don't have an Identity Crisis trade coming anytime between now and then bugs me. Even with big event stories, they take forever to put out trades. What's worse is we'll probably get a hardcover late this year, with a hefty price, and won't even see a softcover until 2006.
On the same token, I'd be willing to bet that after Marvel's House of M wraps up, we'll see a softcover trade a couple months later.
ratzo
03-22-2005, 09:24 AM
Vertigo has a two-trade minimum guarantee for all new series.
Proof? I can name several recent series that didn't get two trades.
Of course, paying less per issue to have something nice and squarebound that you can put on your bookshelf without any adverts in is an obvious rip-off.
I thought the people who thought you "shouldn't" primarily buy trades were dying out
Dying out, but they're not all gone yet. ;)
.
Like I said, I'll buy OGLs like they're going out of style, I've got book shelves FULL of DC and Image OGLs and Prestige Miniserieses. But leave TPBs to the Back Issues, like they were made to do.
Huh, that's the point I've been making? They don't do it for back issues of non-Batman or Superman titles. That's what annoys me. I don't demand EVERY issue in a trade but at least hit the important developments in characters.
niall mc cann
03-22-2005, 11:14 AM
Of course, paying less per issue to have something nice and squarebound that you can put on your bookshelf without any adverts in is an obvious rip-off.
I thought the people who thought you "shouldn't" primarily buy trades were dying out
God, mention you buy primarily trades on the Marvel board and you'll be very quickly, very forcefully reminded that those people are definitely not dying out. In fact, you'll be blamed for the demise of comics and branded a race traitor. :D
I can't remember who made the distinction earlier on, but it is an important one, i think; there's a difference between comic readers and comic collectors. i'm a reader, I couldn't care less about issue numbers or alternate covers or what-have-you, and what i want most of all is regular, quality trades.
Matches Malone
03-22-2005, 01:04 PM
Proof? I can name several recent [Vertigo] series that didn't get two trades.
Which ones?
God, mention you buy primarily trades on the Marvel board and you'll be very quickly, very forcefully reminded that those people are definitely not dying out. In fact, you'll be blamed for the demise of comics and branded a race traitor. :D
I can't remember who made the distinction earlier on, but it is an important one, i think; there's a difference between comic readers and comic collectors. i'm a reader, I couldn't care less about issue numbers or alternate covers or what-have-you, and what i want most of all is regular, quality trades.
Trades are good for collectors too. They let you actually read issues without being afraid of damging them in some minute way. You can read the trade and collect the monthlies.
Oh, and I'm a reader too. :)
The Adventurer
03-22-2005, 04:42 PM
God, mention you buy primarily trades on the Marvel board and you'll be very quickly, very forcefully reminded that those people are definitely not dying out. In fact, you'll be blamed for the demise of comics and branded a race traitor. :D
I can't remember who made the distinction earlier on, but it is an important one, i think; there's a difference between comic readers and comic collectors. i'm a reader, I couldn't care less about issue numbers or alternate covers or what-have-you, and what i want most of all is regular, quality trades.
Who says all single issue buyers are Collectors? I'm not, I could give a damn about issue numbers, I start and stop buying arcs all the time when I'm not pleases with a book's dirrection.
I buy single issues because I crave Varrity. I have a 25 dollor budget for comics every week, with that I can either get A TPB of a single story or I can get 8-10 comics of varring genres, characters, and Creative teams. Giving me a smorgushboard or storytelling, not limited to a single genre and title.
It's all about the Varrity, It's why I love Anthologies like Digital Webbing Presents, Metal Hurlent, Western Tales of Terror, and 2000AD. Varity.
ratzo
03-22-2005, 05:39 PM
Proof? I can name several recent [Vertigo] series that didn't get two trades.
Which ones?
House of Secrets - 1 TPB in 25 issues and 2 Prestige Issues
Deadenders - 1 TPB in 17 issues
Flinch - 0 TPBs in 16 issues
Crusades - 0 TPBs in 20 issues
In fairness, though, I should mention that they've been getting good with repackaging recent mini-series like Bite Club, My Faith in Frankie, and Blood & Water.
Captain Jim
03-22-2005, 07:34 PM
The fact that DC has solicitations through June and we don't have an Identity Crisis trade coming anytime between now and then bugs me.
No surprise here. They've been saying for a long time that there wouldn't be a collection before this fall. That's why they're coming out with yet another printing of every issue in June. They're trying to milk this baby for all it's worth.
The Adventurer
03-22-2005, 07:41 PM
No surprise here. They've been saying for a long time that there wouldn't be a collection before this fall. That's why they're coming out with yet another printing of every issue in June. They're trying to milk this baby for all it's worth.
Milk it? What kind of fool buys every printing of a book? DC is keeping a popular title in print, which is more then Marvel's done in the last 4 years. If you want to read it so bad, buy the issues the TPB price wouldn't be that much different in the end.
Astonishing X-Fan
03-22-2005, 08:26 PM
You're missing the point. I can't just buy the issues because no comic shop around has all 7 of them. Now, since they're going to reprint them again, then I might be able to, but I didn't know that.
And in the end, buying a trade is only a buck or so more than all the issues(except for hardcovers), so I don't see why people are complaining about price. If I want a story arc, I can either spend forever trying to track down every single issue, or I can just go grab a trade. It's convenient.
And it's great for new readers. I just recently got back into comics last year, and if it wasn't for Marvel's great approach to their trades, I might have given up on it. I can easily check out a book and it's important arcs, and if I like a book, I can get the whole run without any real problems. Bought Morrison's entire New X-Men run...can you imagine how much harder it would have been to get it all just looking for back issues?
I can see why someone wouldn't want to buy trades, but I really don't understand how people can be AGAINST them. They're a HUGE help to new readers.
Milk it? What kind of fool buys every printing of a book? DC is keeping a popular title in print, which is more then Marvel's done in the last 4 years. If you want to read it so bad, buy the issues the TPB price wouldn't be that much different in the end.
It can be much cheaper over here. A single issue tends to be £2.15 or so, a standard 6-8 issue trade runs £8 - £13 usually. That is either much cheaper or roughly equal to the full run. And I'm not advocating buying trades solely, I'm promoting the option, the variety of methods of reading series. I'll buy a couple of trades every couple of months, but still get a fair spread of monthlies.
Also, most stores here specialize in recent stuff, the last month or two, reprints are rarely stocked and back-issue dealers are hard to find.
Matches Malone
03-23-2005, 04:44 AM
House of Secrets - 1 TPB in 25 issues and 2 Prestige Issues
Deadenders - 1 TPB in 17 issues
Flinch - 0 TPBs in 16 issues
Crusades - 0 TPBs in 20 issues
In fairness, though, I should mention that they've been getting good with repackaging recent mini-series like Bite Club, My Faith in Frankie, and Blood & Water.
Those were all several years ago, before the policy was in effect. All the current Vertigo books get at least two tpbs.
The Adventurer
03-23-2005, 06:51 AM
I can see why someone wouldn't want to buy trades, but I really don't understand how people can be AGAINST them. They're a HUGE help to new readers.
Oh oh no, I'm totaly for TPBs to get new readers up to speed. Infact several comics I collect regulary have TPBs representing the first 5 or 6 issues of the series (Fables, Y-The Last Man, and Exiles to name a few) But as soon as I'm on board and caught up, I jump to single issues. So yeah, TPBs are good for new readers, not aganst that. I'm aginst TPB reprints being your primary form of new comics.
Matches Malone
03-23-2005, 06:54 AM
Oh oh no, I'm totaly for TPBs to get new readers up to speed. Infact several comics I collect regulary have TPBs representing the first 5 or 6 issues of the series (Fables, Y-The Last Man, and Exiles to name a few) But as soon as I'm on board and caught up, I jump to single issues. So yeah, TPBs are good for new readers, not aganst that. I'm aginst TPB reprints being your primary form of new comics.
... because.. it affects you in... what way exactly?
The Adventurer
03-23-2005, 07:21 AM
... because.. it affects you in... what way exactly?
The Wait for the Trade mentality continues to Cancel great comics I've read from #1. Books that could have the sales to continue to ongoing after the initial miniseries don't because sales are low thanks to "wait for the trade" people.
Waiting for the Trade is killing comics. You'd THINK that wait for the Trade people would buy Original Graphic Novels in droves, but they DON'T so the OGN market still hasn't boomed like your THINK it would. So no benifit there. And Meanwhile single issues initial sales suffer because people keep sitting around for 6-10 months waiting for a Trade that will probibly never come for any non-marvel title because of low sales.
It's inane.
Matches Malone
03-23-2005, 07:27 AM
The Wait for the Trade mentality continues to Cancel great comics I've read from #1. Books that could have the sales to continue to ongoing after the initial miniseries don't because sales are low thanks to "wait for the trade" people.
Can you name one? Just one case where that can be proven?
The Adventurer
03-23-2005, 07:32 AM
Can you name one? Just one case where that can be proven?
Fallen Angel, Hard Times, Monolith, Manhunter, and Bloodhound spring to mind. Fallen Angel and Hard Time had trades, but appear to have been too little too late.
Matches Malone
03-23-2005, 07:43 AM
Fallen Angel, Hard Times, Monolith, Manhunter, and Bloodhound spring to mind. Fallen Angel and Hard Time had trades, but appear to have been too little too late.
Fallen Angel and Hard Time had tpbs - and no one bought them. (Well, except for me with Hard Time.) Those books didn't fail because people waited for the trade; they failed because there weren't enough people interested in reading it in any format.
(Plus I understand there are plans to relaunch HT.)
The sales of Bloodhound and Monolith were abysmal. Unless there were tens of thousands of people waiting for trades (HIGHLY unlikely considering most tpbs sell only a few thousand copies), waiting for the tpb didn't kill those books either.
Manhunter's not dead. and it's getting a tpb in September.
This is the problem I have with this line of thinking. Every time a title gets cancelled, people jump up screaming "D*mn you people who waited for the trade!" It's a bogus claim - there isn't one single instance where people waiting for the trade can be shown to have killed a book. Those making the claim seem to believe there are hordes of people waiting for tpbs, and there just aren't.
Oh oh no, I'm totaly for TPBs to get new readers up to speed. Infact several comics I collect regulary have TPBs representing the first 5 or 6 issues of the series (Fables, Y-The Last Man, and Exiles to name a few) But as soon as I'm on board and caught up, I jump to single issues. So yeah, TPBs are good for new readers, not aganst that. I'm aginst TPB reprints being your primary form of new comics.
BTW, your attack on me for the BoP thing. I'm buying the singles, I just like to know I can go back and read the previous stuff when I do that. Marvel's the same with T-Bolts, the first 5 issues were traded and no others. Annoying for someone who came after the series ended.
Why can't you accept that there is a place for both forms of reader? Some series read much better collected (Alias, Fables and Sandman) and others are more satisfying singly(Spider-Girl, Cable/Deapool, Powers).
Beta Ray Bill
03-23-2005, 06:26 PM
My mistake.
Beastfan07
03-23-2005, 06:39 PM
Yeah. And the next printing with the color changes to the covers are going to be $3.99 each or something like that. Crap.
They were $3.99 to begin with.
Captain Jim
03-23-2005, 07:36 PM
This is the problem I have with this line of thinking. Every time a title gets cancelled, people jump up screaming "D*mn you people who waited for the trade!" It's a bogus claim - there isn't one single instance where people waiting for the trade can be shown to have killed a book. Those making the claim seem to believe there are hordes of people waiting for tpbs, and there just aren't.
Well, yes and no. You're probably right that this is never the single reason a book is cancelled. But it certainly can be a contributing reason, particularly once people know that *everything* is going to be collected. It was definitely a factor (not "the" factor but "a" factor) in CrossGen's demise.
dancj
03-24-2005, 05:03 AM
BUT I will not buy a TPB of a book that's still on the shelf, it's not cheaper, your average Marvel TPB cost 16 bucks for 6 issues, 6 issues on the shelf runs about 2.50 an issue making the total $15. You're spending an aditional dollor (not much, but it nullifies your point).
Marvel and DC Comics typically vary between $2.25 and £2.95. Trades collecting 6 issues vary between $10 and $18, mostly being $15. In my experience trades work out cheaper on average.
dancj
03-24-2005, 05:11 AM
Fallen Angel, Hard Times, Monolith, Manhunter, and Bloodhound spring to mind. Fallen Angel and Hard Time had trades, but appear to have been too little too late.
Publishers these days are savvy enough to know that it's worth trying out a tpb or two on books that sell badly. They use their own judgement on whether it's a worthwhile risk rather than just sales. Their judgement told them (probably correctly) that it wasn't worth it for Monolith, Manhunter and Bloodhound. The books had their fans, but there was hardly a big buzz about them.
Fallen Angel didn't sell well enough in trades for DC to publish it so that knackers your theory on that one. Hard Time was tactically put on hiatus to be relaunched after the trades have built up a fan base - a technique that worked very well for Sleeper.
I think it's very hard to argue that the 'wait for the trade' crowd have killed any of these boooks
niall mc cann
03-24-2005, 09:56 AM
Also, i have to say, i don't see it as my responsibility to make your hobby commercially viable.I like trades. They are the product i want to buy. Why should i have to throw my weight behind your hobby?
If comics as we know them today die out, well, that's tough and i will be sorry to see it, but comics won't end. They'll continue in some form or other. There might be fewer of them, but them's the breaks I'll still be able to get my hands on them. There'll be trades and digests and good old reliable 2000AD. I'll have plenty of reading for a good long time after the collapse, i reckon.
Marvel and DC Comics typically vary between $2.25 and £2.95. Trades collecting 6 issues vary between $10 and $18, mostly being $15. In my experience trades work out cheaper on average.
Same point I made, although the importing factor makes the difference bigger.
The Adventurer
03-24-2005, 11:22 AM
Also, i have to say, i don't see it as my responsibility to make your hobby commercially viable.
What Hobby? Reading?
And if comics die, 2000AD isn't immune(unfortunatly) And neither will TPBs. REPRINTs will die because there will be nothing to reprint.
If everything went Original Graphic Novel that'd be sorta cool, but Marvel doesn't have any interest, they havn't produced a OGN or a Prestige format book in YEARS. DC will have a better time addapint as OGNs are all over the place with them, but they're hardly a strong force these days.
What Hobby? Reading?
And if comics die, 2000AD isn't immune(unfortunatly)
But it isn't dependant on the US market. If the bottom falls out there, they can keep printing here.
The Adventurer
03-24-2005, 11:31 AM
But it isn't dependant on the US market. If the bottom falls out there, they can keep printing here.
True True, anyone have an figures on 2000AD sales overseas? I know I'm the only person at my shop who buys them. I love their Science Fiction Focus, I'm buying all the DC/2000AD collections DC publishes, Nikola Dante, Devlin Waghn, Robo-Hunter, etc... European comics ROCK hardcore, the DC/Humanoids stuff is also noteably Awesome. THOSE are the kinds of TPBs I want, reprints of stuff I can't get anywhere else. That's why I'm behind Manga reprints 100% too.
Back to Euorpean comics, I thought it was lean times in the EU with comics too, with 2000AD being the only big gun left.
True True, anyone have an figures on 2000AD sales overseas? I know I'm the only person at my shop who buys them. I love their Science Fiction Focus, I'm buying all the DC/2000AD collections DC publishes, Nikola Dante, Devlin Waghn, Robo-Hunter, etc... European comics ROCK hardcore, the DC/Humanoids stuff is also noteably Awesome. THOSE are the kinds of TPBs I want, reprints of stuff I can't get anywhere else. That's why I'm behind Manga reprints 100% too.
Back to Euorpean comics, I thought it was lean times in the EU with comics too, with 2000AD being the only big gun left.
Well, the only Brit comic of it's type certainly, monopoly baby! :p
The Adventurer
03-24-2005, 11:38 AM
I can't remember, is Heavy Metal a Brit comic? And if so is it still going?
I can't remember, is Heavy Metal a Brit comic? And if so is it still going?
Oh yeah, I think so. It has British contributions, at the least. Ive seen some in FP recently,not sure if they were new or not.
The Adventurer
03-24-2005, 12:03 PM
Checking their website they appear to be Canadian, but have alot of European contibutions in their monthly Graphic Novels.
niall mc cann
03-26-2005, 02:48 AM
What Hobby? Reading?
Reading single-issue pamphlets, yes.
And if comics die, 2000AD isn't immune(unfortunatly) And neither will TPBs. REPRINTs will die because there will be nothing to reprint.
2000ad isn't immune, but it's crossover with the main american comic book market isn't it's sole source of sales. 2000ad's available in every newsagent here, and i know of quite a few people who don't read any other comics but pick up 2000ad regularly.
Comics have been going in their current form (or similar ones) for eighty odd years. There's plenty of stuff to reprint. I was born after the big british comics collapse of the seventies, but i've read a lot of the stuff that came out of those anthologies, because for years after titles like valiant vanished old stuff was reprinted in big, honking hardback digests that i devoured as a kid.
If everything went Original Graphic Novel that'd be sorta cool, but Marvel doesn't have any interest, they havn't produced a OGN or a Prestige format book in YEARS. DC will have a better time addapint as OGNs are all over the place with them, but they're hardly a strong force these days.
Right now there's no demand for that, sure. if it was the only way to get your hands on a comic, the demand might increase. And if those big reprint digests did well, which if you put them out there onto bookshelves they might, books of similar format but with original material would seem a reasonable next step. It's how comics came about in the first place, after all.
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