Why isn't Wonder Woman...

[Cloak]

...considered(or written as) the league's most intelligent memeber if she is 'wise as Athena', the patron goddess of wisdom and tactical warfare?(which leads me to question why isn't she portrayed as fater when she is faster than the god of speed?)

I've only just gotten into DC comics within the past year or so, but it seems to me that Wonder Woman, despite her status as a member of the trinity, doesn't get the same epic treatment that is bestowed upon Superman and often Captain Marvel.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Wonder Woman's always gonna come in second when it comes to her abilities because writers and readers tend to want to use the other characters instead....because....well...they're more interesting to most people.

I mean, if you wanna see a spectacular display of strength or inspiration, Superman's the guy most want to see doing something like that.

A cunning plan? People want to see Batman come up with that stuff...

A feat of amazing speed? The Flash.

Honestly, the only thing I think a lot of people look to WW for is T&A.

I've seen dozens of different writers try to make WW more interesting to readers and none have managed to succeed....

[The Shadow]

I've seen dozens of different writers try to make WW more interesting to readers and none have managed to succeed....
George Perez did.

He showed there was substance there and that with the right attitude Wonder Woman could be as interesting (if not moreso) than some of the male heroes. Unfortunatly after he left lesser writers came onboard and she was reverted back to the T&A.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

George Perez did.

I think Perez came close, but even he didn't exactly set comicdom on fire with his WW series. He's still the best regarded WW creator to date, but that's still like being the world's tallest midget.

[Kaskratiski]

Wonder Woman's always gonna come in second when it comes to her abilities because writers and readers tend to want to use the other characters instead....because....well...they're more interesting to most people.

I mean, if you wanna see a spectacular display of strength or inspiration, Superman's the guy most want to see doing something like that.

A cunning plan? People want to see Batman come up with that stuff...

A feat of amazing speed? The Flash.

Honestly, the only thing I think a lot of people look to WW for is T&A.

I've seen dozens of different writers try to make WW more interesting to readers and none have managed to succeed....


That's precisely why WW can be such a kickass character: She can be fast, cunning AND strong...and she should be the best fighter in the DC Universe.
I think DC would hesitate in even implying that the female of the trinity could be all those things, even though her mythos proves that she is: She is allegedly as strong as Gaea, the Earth...as fast as the God of Speed and as intelligent as the Goddess Of Wisdom?
HELLO,DC!!!!

[comic_lover]

...considered(or written as) the league's most intelligent memeber if she is 'wise as Athena', the patron goddess of wisdom and tactical warfare?(which leads me to question why isn't she portrayed as fater when she is faster than the god of speed?)

I've only just gotten into DC comics within the past year or so, but it seems to me that Wonder Woman, despite her status as a member of the trinity, doesn't get the same epic treatment that is bestowed upon Superman and often Captain Marvel. One word.....Batman.He trumps all Gods of Wonder Woman's mythos.

[Zombified2000]

One word.....Batman.He trumps all Gods of Wonder Woman's mythos.

Dude, WW could crush him in like one punch. I seriously think she is the best warrior in the DC universe. Another person I think is underrated is Captain Marvel. those two greeks are insane, I mean, Captain Marvel has the strength of Hercules (It should be Heracles, but I digress) the wisdom of Solomon, Power of Zuess, Stamina of Atlas, all that stuff!

[Eliseu Gouveia]

What?
A girl on top?
Un-thin-ka-ble!

Women are only good for making food and babies.
I don´t CARE if she´s as strong as this planet herself, she should need to ask for Superman´s help everytime she needs a jar open, period.

[Zombified2000]

What?
A girl on top?
Un-thin-ka-ble!

Women are only good for making food and babies.
I don´t CARE if she´s as strong as this planet herself, she should need to ask for Superman´s help everytime she needs a jar open, period.

Dude, that better be a joke, I mean honestly, that is the dumbest thing I've heard in a while, and I've heard alot of dumb things. Dude, alot of girls can be "on top" (As a matter of fact, sometime's it's bettter that way :D )

Elektra can kick the crap out of DD any day of the week, and for sure, WW can take out superman!

[kane]

Do we know how wise Athena is? She is just called the goddess of wisom, but that does not means that she is wiser than lets say Batman.
The gods of Dc are just superhuman beeings made by the godwave.

btw: And Elektra cannot kick the crap out of DD (a trained man fights always better than a trained woman - a man is bigger, stronger, and faster. Even in boxing or other fights betwen man, there are weight classes), but this is not the question of the thread

[Zombified2000]

But, didn't she beat him nearly to death before? I mean Bullseys kicked the living **** out of her, but I seem to remember that being part of marvel continuity

and if you're the goddess of wisdom, you have to be wise. Or else you're not a goddess of that, I mean...it's obvious

[kane]

and if you're the goddess of wisdom, you have to be wise. Or else you're not a goddess of that, I mean...it's obvious

And how fast is the god of speed? If he runs 200 mph he is faster than any human, is that enough? And how strong is the earth (gea)?

And how can you measure wisdom. How much wiser than a human you have to be to be called a goddes of wisdom?

And in the greek mythology Athena not always acted wise.

[Forsaken_One]

Not to mention wisdom does not equal intelligence. Ana a very wise person can still know nothing about tactics whatsoever.

I think the biggest problem is you're expecting anyone to be used to their full potential in JLA. But no one is. Most stories Flash could solve by vibrating through a few people or moving almost faster than they could think. Superman is fast enough to do a lot, burn up weapons, or do other things that could end the story before the arc even begins. Batman's made to be much more intelligent and prepared than he is in his normal books in order to let him dwell with what amount to modern gods. Hell, even Green Lantern could do a hell of a lot more but every time we see John he's using his ring as a shield and blast weapon. He never thinks of doing both things at once or making blasts come from other areas or... well or anything original. So he doesn't live up to his power level either. Everyone's changed in power levels and/or intelligence levels in order to fit into a team enviornment.

[Zombified2000]

Well, she still acts wiser than batman, because as smart as he is, he's just a human. I mean, if you're a goddes you have to have an infinite amount of wisdom, despite her not always acting wise, neither has batman

[kane]

Not to mention wisdom does not equal intelligence. Ana a very wise person can still know nothing about tactics whatsoever.

I think the biggest problem is you're expecting anyone to be used to their full potential in JLA. But no one is. Most stories Flash could solve by vibrating through a few people or moving almost faster than they could think. Superman is fast enough to do a lot, burn up weapons, or do other things that could end the story before the arc even begins. Batman's made to be much more intelligent and prepared than he is in his normal books in order to let him dwell with what amount to modern gods. Hell, even Green Lantern could do a hell of a lot more but every time we see John he's using his ring as a shield and blast weapon. He never thinks of doing both things at once or making blasts come from other areas or... well or anything original. So he doesn't live up to his power level either. Everyone's changed in power levels and/or intelligence levels in order to fit into a team enviornment.

Thats it.
Even in their own books they often do not use their whole potential. For example Superman often forgets his own superspeed in fist fights.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Dude, that better be a joke, I mean honestly, that is the dumbest thing I've heard in a while, and I've heard alot of dumb things. Dude, alot of girls can be "on top" (As a matter of fact, sometime's it's bettter that way :D )

Elektra can kick the crap out of DD any day of the week, and for sure, WW can take out superman!

WW?
Taking Superman down?
Clearly, you jest.

Just because she´s an extraordinary fighter who spent all her life training and managed to defeat an entire island worth of seasoned warriors with thousands of years of experience themselves doesn´t mean that she can take down a Kansas farmboy!! (Double exclamation point).

[kane]

WW?
Taking Superman down?
Clearly, you jest.

Just because she´s an extraordinary fighter who spent all her life training and managed to defeat an entire island worth of seasoned warriors with thousands of years of experience themselves doesn´t mean that she can take down a Kansas farmboy!! (Double exclamation point).

A kansas farmboy who killed doomsday (a cloned and designed killing machine, who walks und fights around for 250 000 years in the whole universe and is even feared by darkseid), who often fought with Darkseid ( a beeing much older than WW) and so on.

[IamtheRock3]

Think people arguing WW doesnt have to be no 1 in All of them

But her stats should be good enough she should get the amount of props that everyone else seem to get. I mean she is part of a trinity let didn't have any epic stuff happen, or anything that really focus on her.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

A kansas farmboy who killed doomsday (a cloned and designed killing machine, who walks und fights around for 250 000 years in the whole universe and is even feared by darkseid), who often fought with Darkseid ( a beeing much older than WW) and so on.

She´s smarter, much-much-MUCH better trained, experienced and a born warrior.
He´s a Kansas farmboy.
And he wins because he´s bigger, male and by patriarch rule has to be on top?
Please!

It´s like pitching a rotweiller against a horse!

[Forsaken_One]

Well to be fair Superman did fight alongside Wonder Woman for a thousand years in another dimention. I'm sure he picked up a few pointers. ;)

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Well to be fair Superman did fight alongside Wonder Woman for a thousand years in another dimention. I'm sure he picked up a few pointers. ;)

And what was Wonder Woman doing in the meantime?
Why do folks ALWAYS assume that Superman is the only one who evolved in that time period?

Diana is such a gifted fighter that in 20+ years worth of her lifetime in Themiscyra she learned enough to defeat warriors with THOUSANDS years of experience.
That´s what she does. She fights, she learns, she perfects and then she fights some more. Bigger, better, faster, more.

And yet we are expected to ASSume that she spent those 1,000 years in Asgard fixing her fingernails, sunbathing and generally oogling at kryptonian muscles?

[Cloak]

Not to mention wisdom does not equal intelligence. Ana a very wise person can still know nothing about tactics whatsoever.

Thats true, but I'd argue that having Athena as goddess of wisdom, makes her the goddess of intelligence etc by default. Athena is also goddess of war(especially tactical warfare, as opposed to Ares' mindless frenzy approach), in addition to being goddess of wisdom( I wasn't suggesting that because she is wise, she'd automatically have excellent battle tactics as well).


I think the biggest problem is you're expecting anyone to be used to their full potential in JLA. But no one is. Most stories Flash could solve by vibrating through a few people or moving almost faster than they could think. Superman is fast enough to do a lot, burn up weapons, or do other things that could end the story before the arc even begins. Batman's made to be much more intelligent and prepared than he is in his normal books in order to let him dwell with what amount to modern gods. Hell, even Green Lantern could do a hell of a lot more but every time we see John he's using his ring as a shield and blast weapon. He never thinks of doing both things at once or making blasts come from other areas or... well or anything original. So he doesn't live up to his power level either. Everyone's changed in power levels and/or intelligence levels in order to fit into a team enviornment.

This is true, yet it seems that with most JLA stories there is a special moment reserved for both Superman and Batman to do something either triumphantly powerful or awfully clever. As one of the three big icons, and the only woman on a team of seven of so, I'd like to see her presented in a better light.

Something else I've always questioned is if Superman is weakened by Captain Marvel because of his ties to magic, why isn't he weakened by Wonder Woman, who's powers also derive from magic? Is there some kind of law that she is not allowed to defeat him or something? Is it because of her gender? If Batman and Captain Marvel are allowed, why not she?

[Forsaken_One]

And what was Wonder Woman doing in the meantime?
Why do folks ALWAYS assume that Superman is the only one who evolved in that time period?
Because I'm saying that Superman might have learned from Diana. What would Diana learn about tactics or fighting from Superman, eh? How to brawl? No, if any learning between the two was going on it'd be Superman learning from Wonder Woman, not visa versa. And anything they gained from their opponents might have been in close to equal measure.

Thats true, but I'd argue that having Athena as goddess of wisdom, makes her the goddess of intelligence etc by default. Athena is also goddess of war(especially tactical warfare, as opposed to Ares' mindless frenzy approach), in addition to being goddess of wisdom( I wasn't suggesting that because she is wise, she'd automatically have excellent battle tactics as well).
From the Encyclopedia Mythica: "Athena, the Greek goddess of wisdom, war, the arts, industry, justice and skill. She was the favorite child of Zeus. She had sprung fully grown out of her father's head. Her mother was Metis, goddess of wisdom and Zeus' first wife. "

To me none of that says intelligence. Skill does not require intelligence; it requires hard work and learning, yes, but one doesn't have to be intelligent to gain a skill like blacksmithing. Nor do the arts require intelligence. After all there are many intelligent people who are horrible at any art, from writing to painting, and there are many people of average intelligence who write great stories or paint beautiful art. Tactics (war) is debatable but I'd say the one thing linking all of those things is that they take imagination and wisdom, not intelligence. An imaginative tactic might win the day while intelligent manuvers aren't nearly as effective, imagination is the heart of art and, to a point, skill. And Justice requires both wisdom in knowing when to give it and to whom as well as imagination both for knowing the victim and the killer in equal measure and for a fitting punishment.

But none of them require intelligence.

As far as her being a tactician, I agree that she should be used that way more often. But that's a somewhat selfish desire in that I don't think Batman should be in the Justice League, or even colluding with metahumans, magical beings, or alien freaks like he does in the pages of JLA. I think he should be so focused on his own war, on bringing justice to his fellow humans, that he doesn't have time to muck around with these silly Quardians or whatnot. He's a street-level hero, bringing him into space-based comics was a big mistake that I wish was fixed. Hell, with this Identity Crisis stuff I might even get my wish, though it's a snowball's chance in hell that it'll stay that way more than a year or so.

Something else I've always questioned is if Superman is weakened by Captain Marvel because of his ties to magic, why isn't he weakened by Wonder Woman, who's powers also derive from magic? Is there some kind of law that she is not allowed to defeat him or something? Is it because of her gender? If Batman and Captain Marvel are allowed, why not she?
Because, as far as I can tell, Superman isn't weakened by Captain Marvel's magic. Captain Marvel is just very, very strong. The only time Cap uses magic on Superman is when he yells "Shazam!" out to take him down (like he did in Superman/Batman to Batman).

And even ignoring that Captain Marvel is much more a creation of magic than Wonder Woman. Captain Marvel's body is a magical construct created by the wizard Shazam that Billy formed that also happens to look like his hero, his father. Diana is a clay sculpture brought to life, which is magic, but after that she's pretty much human with some gifts bestowed to her by the gods. She isn't constructed of pure magical energy like Captain Marvel is.

[Cloak]

I don't want to create an argument, but:

wis·dom
n.


The ability to discern or judge what is true, right, or lasting; insight.
Common sense; good judgment: “It is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things” (Henry David Thoreau).
a.The sum of learning through the ages; knowledge: “In those homely sayings was couched the collective wisdom of generations” (Maya Angelou).
b. Wise teachings of the ancient sages.
A wise outlook, plan, or course of action.
Wisdom Bible. Wisdom of Solomon.


I think wisdom and intelligence overlap often, and that can't be denied.

I like your thoughts on Batman. His massive popularity holds him back in some respects.

On Captain Marvel: if he is just "very, very strong", how is it explained that he can do so well against Superman with the strength of Hercules, when Wonder Woman's claim to fame is "Stronger than Heracles"? I think it needs to be seen that if Batman can defeat opponents much stronger than he with his hand-to-hand skill, couldn't Wonder Woman do the same with opponents that are only a little stronger than she(Superman)?

[Forsaken_One]

I don't want to create an argument, but: <insert definition of wisdom here>
No argument, that only holds up my point. It states that it wisdom is insight, common sense, good judgement, knowledge, teachings, or plans. Nowhere in that definition does it state intelligence is needed to be wise. They do indeed overlap often, just as physical strength and coordination often overlap. But one does not require the other, so Diana may be very intelligent but not "god like" intelligent, allowing Batman to outstrip her in that regard. The idea of her being wiser than Batman now... well, just take a look at the recent War Games crossover. It doesn't take much to be wiser than Batman. ;)

And I agree that his popularity somewhat holds him back. For example, despite the Indentity Crisis issues I know Superman/Batman will continue to be published as it's a very big seller. I think it's a bad thing for the character but DC isn't running an art commune, it's running a buisness.

On Captain Marvel: if he is just "very, very strong", how is it explained that he can do so well against Superman with the strength of Hercules, when Wonder Woman's claim to fame is "Stronger than Heracles"? I think it needs to be seen that if Batman can defeat opponents much stronger than he with his hand-to-hand skill, couldn't Wonder Woman do the same with opponents that are only a little stronger than she(Superman)?
Well this is DCU world logic, where Ares and Mars are two entierly seperate gods. So who's to say the Hercules of Greecian and Roman myths weren't two seperate beings as well, with seperate power levels? Or I could be completely wrong and it's the construct vs. divine creation issue. Would that make sense, Superman being slightly weaker to Captain Marvel beause he's a magical construct while Diana isn't? And it isn't like Diana can take Superman out using nerve hits or something; he isn't supposed to be human.

Again, I think the biggest problem is the flucuating power levels. In one comic Superman is powerful enough that he breaks Diana's sword by flinging a drop of his own blood at it. In another he defeats Darkseid easily. And in Action Comics he's... beaten by a generic steroid-powered metahuman yokle.

[Static-Pulse]

...considered(or written as) the league's most intelligent memeber if she is 'wise as Athena', the patron goddess of wisdom and tactical warfare?I never asked myself that question, but you're right. Back in the Golden Age books, the ones at Holliday College, Diana was an inventor. If memory serves, too, I believe on the Lynda Carter show, she was shown helping a scientist finish up a formula too -- I want to say it was, "The Man Who Made Volcanoes."

That is a very good question!

[Shellhead]

Hey, at least she's not Aquaman. That poor guy doesn't have much to do besides swimming and washing the jockstraps for the heavy hitters.

[davids]

Diana,"Ever do it on a tilt a wirl?"
Superman, "Tilt a wirl?"
Diana,"You know that carnavel ride that spins you around real fast and pins you against the wall?"
Superman, "You like being pinned, i can do that!"
Wonder woman,"Promises, promises!"

The promise all most caused the JLA satlight to be knocked out of orbit from their love making. Do you really think, she would take a back seat to any man, even superman if she didn't want to?

Diana only reason to ask Clark to open a jar would be for his ego! [must be that wisdom of Athena thing!"]

Superman is bigger, stronger faster than Wonder Woman, doesn't make him better.

A great light weight boxing champion, can not beat a good heavy weight boxer. Doesn't make him any less a champion.

Wonder Woman talking about her best friend, "He could break my back with out even thinking about it!"

And yet she could bend him to her will, using the same means women having been controling we men for the past 100 thousand years or so!

In some way Diana is stonger, that Clark. She will be willing to do things Clark can not bring himself to do. Wonder Woman will kill if she is forced to, clark will not. Not even to save Lois's life!

I think that will be the reason for the rift between them. Diana will kill some one in front of Superman, I think it will be to save Lois's life.

Superman will be shocked to see her do this, and resent her, not only for the killing. But also for the fact she could do what he could not do, even to save the woman he loves.

[davids]

http://superman.ws/Maggin/kingdom.php It was posted by the author himself. chapter 13 the elephant dance!

[Arvandor]

JLA: League of One.

[vantheman77]

I doubt Superman will ever trust Wonder Woman again and I wonder if he has
any interest in repairing their friendship after what she will do this summer.

[davids]

called batman a reptile and bounced a hunk of stone off his head! Took out superman using her brains. After taking out the rest of the leauge, took out superman by playing on his weakness. [and i don't mean kryptonite.]

His trust of her, and his concern for the rest of his team mates.

Superman." Why?"
WW, "I knew I couldn't beat you, but i had to find a way to delay you!"

[kane]

Superman is a boy scout and can be tricked by almost everyone, because he is naive.

And the female weapons work for thousands of years on almost every man. A women must not be a wonder woman to controll a man, she must be good looking.

[IamtheRock3]

If you guys argue that being the god of Wisdom dont make you wise..got to consider in most stories Athena still played as the smartest if not less doucebaggy of the Gods.


So most stories she got props for her brains. Someone warrioes go to for advice.

[Forsaken_One]

If you guys argue that being the god of Wisdom dont make you wise..got to consider in most stories Athena still played as the smartest if not less doucebaggy of the Gods.


So most stories she got props for her brains. Someone warrioes go to for advice.
But I'm not arguing that she isn't wise. I'm arguing that wisdom does not equal intelligence.

[Nate Grey]

Hey, at least she's not Aquaman. That poor guy doesn't have much to do besides swimming and washing the jockstraps for the heavy hitters.

Well, he technically is a heavy hitter, I think its been stated he can lift at LEAST 20 tons, and that's OUT of water. Problem is I think because "aqua" is in his name people expect, well, water stories from him, so you never get to see his strength in action.


Nate Grey,
Not liking the return of the orange shirt

[Stanlos]

...considered(or written as) the league's most intelligent memeber if she is 'wise as Athena', the patron goddess of wisdom and tactical warfare?(which leads me to question why isn't she portrayed as fater when she is faster than the god of speed?)

I've only just gotten into DC comics within the past year or so, but it seems to me that Wonder Woman, despite her status as a member of the trinity, doesn't get the same epic treatment that is bestowed upon Superman and often Captain Marvel.

Because of the "Woman" at the end of the name. It is okay for Seraph to be wise and it is okay for Captain Marvel to be wise.

But it is not okay for Wonder Woman to be wise for some people.

Take a look at JLA/JSA: Virtue & Vice.

There is a scene there where you would think the author had no idea that WW was gifted wisdom whatsoever (and by a God no less).

Thanks to the efforts of authors like Simonson, Byrne, Perez, Rucka, and more recently Gail Simone we could be seeing WW's deal better expressed. But so long as no one addresses the supposedly imaginary "m" word, we will likely see the contempt for the character return like cancer.

[Agent_Torpor]

If Diana's such a bad-ass, I find it difficult to buy the argument she needs comfort flat boots.

[frostedone]

Sadly it still seems that the comic book industry is still sexist. Women are usually treated more as T&A, than interesting characters.

Wonder Woman should be able to mop the floor with Superman. She has had far far more training, despite their strength and slight speed differences. Her tactics should allow her to out strategize him. She has trained for thousands of years, and he has trained for what less than 30? If the trapped for 1000 years thing is in continuity, well she still has him beat by thousands of years. Age wise Superman has less than 50 years worth of knowledge, wisdom, and skill, WW has thousands.

I am not trying to start a flame war, it is just my opinion.

[Kage Kisaragi]

I was gonna make a funny little quip about Athena being outdated but then I realized that it wouldn't be funny. :frown:

[Schornforce]

I think Wonder Woman IS wise (when written well).

She's a great tactician, as well as a brilliant negotiator and a skilled tracker.

However.

She's far more trusting than Batman. She tries to see the good in people and give them more benefits of the doubt. Yes, she can determine deception to a degree, but she'd be more willing to give the person deceiving her a chance to reform whereas Batman would punch them out, ending the problem. Some would see that less as being compassionate and more as being less intelligent.

They're both skilled and intelligent, but in different ways. True, both are skilled tacticians in terms of battle, but Batman's the scientist and detective. Wonder Woman's the sage and negotiator. If faced with diplomatic situations, Batman's most likely to growl and intimidate while Superman would be a lot more 'aw shucks' in his attitude and could waffle in certain situations. Diana, on the other hand, is used to the political and would determine the best course of action in that regard. It doesn't always work, of course, but she has the best chance of the Trinity if that type of situation arises.

Diana's also far more versed in the ancient and mystic than Batman. He has knowledge on some of those arcane subjects, but not to the degree Diana has, as her people have safeguarded such artifacts and have a great library (IIRC) which has such information that no man has seen for centuries.

Now, as far as terms of power, I'm in the camp that agrees in a fair battle, Superman beats Wonder Woman. Superman is pretty resourceful (when written well) and can find a way around Wonder Woman's deus ex machina lasso and her bracelets (another factor often forgotten-- her bracelets when brought together in a cross-armed defense create a forcefield shielding her body). I'm not saying it'd be easy, but Superman's been shown to be tougher, stronger, and faster. Like it or lump it. Sexist or not, that's how their powers have been portrayed.

Now, having said that, if Diana's given one-sided prep, she wins. Heck, even if they're both given equal prep time, I think Diana's got a good chance, as she's the better tactician and has access to magic based weaponry and defenses.

Personally, one of the things that drew me to Wonder Woman was that she seems to be the best of both worlds-- power, like Superman and intellect, like Batman. Ideal in JLA situations, as if the team has to split up, Clark and Bruce can take one problem and Diana can handle the other. I also personally think she's a far better leader than either Clark or Bruce.

Just my opinions on the character, please feel free to tear them to shreds. :biggrin:

[taozen]

As been said earlier wisdom does not equal intelligence even though they overlap

That said the problem with Wonder Woman is that she is BORING to a lot of people. Her character is too perfect. And who wants to read about a perfect person with no flaws. Her powers and origin have be retconned so many times that she is basically a female superman without the kryponite. So many writers have said that it is very difficult to write Superman and many have said that they cannot get a grasp on him, and wonder woman in my opinion is even more difficult. She is similar in that way to Aquaman though not as bad. Her character stories probably need to remain in the realm of the Gods and many readers cannot relate to that and thus do not buy the book.

Finally for Wonder Woman as a character to looked upon for more than cheese cake, then they have to get rid of that ridiculous costume. That will not happen because the superhero comic buying public are mostly male and we love our cheese cake. And now her costume is iconic and a part of popular culture.

[Kid Kyoto]

Well she dresses like a patriotic dominatrix.

She can't be that wise.

Surely she must realize that putting something over her star-spangled thong would help people take her more seriously :D

Anyway... super-intelligence or wisdom is very, very hard to write since authors can only write someone as smart as they themselves are.

Plus it makes for rather dull stories since anyone that smart or wise would be able to detect and disarm threats long before they become serious.

So everyone who's supposed to be super-smart in comics is written as dumber than they ought to be.

[mgs]

again, yes, wisdom is not intelligence AND it relates to your inner self. It does not automatically make one a great leader or such,

But it's like an inner moral strength that some people have. They know themselves and know when they are lying to themselves and hopefully their wisdom is great enough to help them break bad habits or such that they know are bad for them. It's this inner strength that allows very wise people to put those same thoughts into the outer world around them to help rationalize why some things are.

Wisdom is not always quick, does not automatically stop someone from making the wrong choice, or save the day, but it does allow someone the opportunity to realize the choices they and others make, imo.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

WW is supposed to be a better fighter than any of the "flying bricks" (Supes, CM, MM, SG, PG, etc.)

She may be faster than Supes, or close.

She's extremely wise

Immune to magic

etc.


But the most important thing isn't there. She isn't interesting, IMO. That's more important than anything else, and when that fixes up, I'm sure the rest will fall into place.

But as of right now, her stories aren't setting to world on fire like the rest of the big 5, and that is the biggest problem (I believe Gail is fixing that though).

She's supposed to be the best superheroine in the DCU, but I'm more interested in Power Girl (though she is my favorite superheroine), Terra, Bulleteer (if she ever shows up again), Manhunter, and Zatanna. To me, that's a problem.

[Spiffy]

Wonder Woman's always gonna come in second when it comes to her abilities because writers and readers tend to want to use the other characters instead....because....well...they're more interesting to most people.

I mean, if you wanna see a spectacular display of strength or inspiration, Superman's the guy most want to see doing something like that.

A cunning plan? People want to see Batman come up with that stuff...

A feat of amazing speed? The Flash.

Honestly, the only thing I think a lot of people look to WW for is T&A.

I've seen dozens of different writers try to make WW more interesting to readers and none have managed to succeed....
Well, its because DC is afraid to give her plots where she functions as a Warrior. They want to shove her in the Superhero slot, where she's always going to be a middle power character, who's good at more things than most, but not greater than anyone else.

As a Warrior, she'd be the best. And that means more than just fighting monsters, she should clearly be the best tactician as well. She'd be a more natural field leader of the JLA than most, if they wrote her properly, because of that. A good field general can be written as having a great spatial sense of where all her troops are and how to move them. An instinctive understanding of odds. Stuff like that. Superman's method of fighting doesn't really encourage development of those skills. Nor does Flash's. Batman is more of a strategist rather than a tactician--someone who plans for upcoming eventualities so he doesn't HAVE to do "off the cuff".

[Vic Vega]

Well, its because DC is afraid to give her plots where she functions as a Warrior. They want to shove her in the Superhero slot, where she's always going to be a middle power character, who's good at more things than most, but not greater than anyone else.

As a Warrior, she'd be the best. And that means more than just fighting monsters, she should clearly be the best tactician as well. She'd be a more natural field leader of the JLA than most, if they wrote her properly, because of that. A good field general can be written as having a great spatial sense of where all her troops are and how to move them. An instinctive understanding of odds. Stuff like that. Superman's method of fighting doesn't really encourage development of those skills. Nor does Flash's. Batman is more of a strategist rather than a tactician--someone who plans for upcoming eventualities so he doesn't HAVE to do "off the cuff".

Batman gets placed in the stragegist/tactician role in the JLA mainly because it gives him a reason to be there. Very few of the JLA's problems fall into the "whodunit" variety. And the "Team Brainaic" role is usually filled by either Steel or Ray Palmer. Note that on this version of the League with no other science types around Batman IS the smartest guy on the team.

To put Wonder Woman in the natural role of combat tactican like Captain America would just make Batman even more useless on the team than he needs to be.

[Lupek]

...considered(or written as) the league's most intelligent memeber if she is 'wise as Athena', the patron goddess of wisdom and tactical warfare?(which leads me to question why isn't she portrayed as fater when she is faster than the god of speed?)

I've only just gotten into DC comics within the past year or so, but it seems to me that Wonder Woman, despite her status as a member of the trinity, doesn't get the same epic treatment that is bestowed upon Superman and often Captain Marvel.

I think WW should be leading the Justice League and featured more prominently in the JL book(s). Batman and Superman do well on their own. WW could do with some promotion and having her profile raised.

Superman and Batman have their own incredible worlds that they operate in. Wonder Woman's world and cast of characters aren't nearly as good, in my opinion. Whereas I think Batman and Superman work best on their own, I think WW (and her book) would be better off if she operated more in the shared superhero universe. As the leader of the Justice League and as the focal point in the yearly event/crossover books.

[Schornforce]

Wonder Woman's world and cast of characters aren't nearly as good, in my opinion.

I think Wonder Woman's supporting cast would be great-- if they'd stay consistent.

Her cast changes seemingly with each new writer.

Steve Trevor and Etta Candy
Julia and Vanessa Kapatalis
Donna Troy
Hippolyta and the Amazons
The Greek pantheon of gods
Artemis
Helena and Cassie Sandsmark
Mike Schorr
Trevor Barnes
The various people at the Themysciran Embassy Building
Nemesis, Sgt. Steel, etc.

and many more...

Perhaps if Diana's supporting cast and base of operations had stayed fairly regular, like Batman's and Superman's, perhaps that would help ground her more.

It does sort of set her apart from them by having such a large supporting cast in comparison to the others, but I would think it's harder for her to become as accessible to new readers than a hero with a primarily set supporting cast.

[jv2k]

Diana is suppose to be one of the best fighters in the DCU and she is pretty damn fast and powerful.

Unfortunately for her, superman will always be top dog when it comes to strength, Flash has speed, and since Batman doesn't have any powers he is the one who showcases fighting skill and strategy. Wonder Woman is the all arounder, the halfway point between Clark and Bruce in the trinity, and she isn't able to break free of that without stepping on someone else's toes.

As for interesting, I'm enjoying what Gail Simmone has been doing with the book so far.