OT : How did Hentai come to be?

[Knightosis]

I know Hentai is from Japan, but I'm just curious, how DID this thing
ever get started?

I mean, who in Japan actually made the first Hentai? Since, it is
somewhat popular I just always wondered who was the guy who
actually thought, "Hey I know, I'll make an animated pornography!"

[Jack]

Slayven was born, and the sheer impact on the fabric of reality altered history in his image retroactively.

[raoulduke]

I know Hentai is from Japan, but I'm just curious, how DID this thing
ever get started?

I mean, who in Japan actually made the first Hentai? Since, it is
somewhat popular I just always wondered who was the guy who
actually thought, "Hey I know, I'll make an animated pornography!"

Well if you mean erotic drawings...it's been around for a long time.

Sex has always been a major issue in human history, so basically it just stems from people so interested in it they wanted to draw it.

[Tages]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Japan have a tradition of erotic art embeded into its cultural history?

[raoulduke]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Japan have a tradition of erotic art embeded into its cultural history?

It does from what I've seen.

[Tages]

Slayven was born, and the sheer impact on the fabric of reality altered history in his image retroactively.
...or that.

[hitokiri_]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Japan have a tradition of erotic art embeded into its cultural history?


word.

char limit

[G. Wayne]

I know Hentai is from Japan, but I'm just curious, how DID this thing
ever get started?

I mean, who in Japan actually made the first Hentai? Since, it is
somewhat popular I just always wondered who was the guy who
actually thought, "Hey I know, I'll make an animated pornography!"

iirc, a big thing that helped the tentacle bit evolve are japan's goofy decency laws.

something along the lines that a, um, biologically correct male organ can't be shown. there's nothing against, (and i have no idea who started it either) having an exxagerated, "tentacle" type organ though.

there's something about hair in certain places too, which is why the women are usually, um, "shaved".

and i think there's something about bodily fluids too, even, which is why they tend to be radioactive looking.

hey, i got a little curious after seeing a blurred out scene in one of the overfiend movies. "everything they show, and the STILL CENSOR something?!? wtf?"

[Cain of Dreaming]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Japan have a tradition of erotic art embeded into its cultural history?

Yup, pillowbooks. Though I think they were originally more of a sex ed for the young brides and grooms rather than the equivalent of modern erotic art.

[Jack]

iirc, a big thing that helped the tentacle bit evolve are japan's goofy decency laws.

something along the lines that a, um, biologically correct male organ can't be shown. there's nothing against, (and i have no idea who started it either) having an exxagerated, "tentacle" type organ though.

there's something about hair in certain places too, which is why the women are usually, um, "shaved".

and i think there's something about bodily fluids too, even, which is why they tend to be radioactive looking.

hey, i got a little curious after seeing a blurred out scene in one of the overfiend movies. "everything they show, and the STILL CENSOR something?!? wtf?"
Yeah, those crazy Japanese and their totally insane censorship laws.... which were introduced by the US during the occupation..

[Tages]

Yeah, those crazy Japanese and their totally insane censorship laws.... which were introduced by the US during the occupation..
As were laws against drug usage, particularly methamphetamines, and various other...

Must...resist...urge...to discuss...politics..............

[Jack]

Blah blah dark side blah blah give in.

[Yogi]

I don't know if this is considered an adult link (http://wwwuser.gwdg.de/~bhaug/netsuke/amasan.htm) or not.

[Slayven]

Slayven was born, and the sheer impact on the fabric of reality altered history in his image retroactively.
guilty as charged

[Slayven]

I don't know if this is considered an adult link (http://wwwuser.gwdg.de/~bhaug/netsuke/amasan.htm) or not.
and that is why i love you

[Jack]

and that is why i love you
And that is why Aub will hunt you down and kill you. :)

[Jack]

guilty as charged
I call em like I see em.

[Tages]

Blah blah dark side blah blah give in.
Darth Blah, we meet again.

[Slayven]

I call em like I see em.
My theory is sometime int eh future i will be sent back to teh time of the big bang and the formation of the universe and slayvenocity will produce a unique time fo radiation that will promote perversity through adversity(I needed to rhyme). did we create fire to warm orselves or make ti so warm chicks had to take their clothes off...think about it

[Slayven]

And that is why Aub will hunt you down and kill you. :)
i will not interupt the Yogi/Aub war...it is too full of passion and youth

[Knightosis]

I'm aware that erotic art is old as hell, I meant, specifically how did Hentai
get made?

I doubt Osamu Tezuka made it.

I mean WHO did start it?

[Yogi]

I'm aware that erotic art is old as hell, I meant, specifically how did Hentai
get made?

I doubt Osamu Tezuka made it.

I mean WHO did start it?How does one draw the line between Hentai and aincient erotic art?

[Knightosis]

Anime is more mainstream animation.

I'm asking who made the first animated Hentai. Who started the "craze"
so to speak.

[BrendanK]

Anime is more mainstream animation.

I'm asking who made the first animated Hentai. Who started the "craze"
so to speak.
Well, the first one brought up is generally Cream Lemon (Don't recall who made it, except they later made Project A-Ko. Well, they initially intended to do A-Ko as a Cream Lemon title, but they changed their minds). It probably wasn't the first, but I'm prety sure it was the first one to do well enough to gain real recognition.

[Sanagi]

I think it was probably an obvious idea to everyone in the porn business once animation became popular.

[SAMAS]

I'm aware that erotic art is old as hell, I meant, specifically how did Hentai
get made?

I doubt Osamu Tezuka made it.

I mean WHO did start it?

Alao, Katsushika Hokusai, a man known as the actual inventor of Manga(He also did that one picture of the really huge wave), made a woodcut called The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dream_of_the_Fisherman%27s_Wife) You can guess what that's getting at.

Before(and during, and after) that, the Japanese had always had shunga, which were erotic pictures made as woodblock pictures or in painted scrolls.

But yes, Urotsukidoji was actually the first anime with tentacles.

[OverMaster]

I doubt Osamu Tezuka made it.


Actually, ISTR Tezuka did at least one hentai manga (the man was an all-terrain), but I'm not too sure about it.

[OverMaster]

Alao, Katsushika Hokusai, a man known as the actual inventor of Manga(He also did that one picture of the really huge wave), made a woodcut called The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dream_of_the_Fisherman%27s_Wife) You can guess what that's getting at.



That thing is creepy.

[BrendanK]

Alao, Katsushika Hokusai, a man known as the actual inventor of Manga(He also did that one picture of the really huge wave), made a woodcut called The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dream_of_the_Fisherman%27s_Wife) You can guess what that's getting at.

Before(and during, and after) that, the Japanese had always had shunga, which were erotic pictures made as woodblock pictures or in painted scrolls.

But yes, Urotsukidoji was actually the first anime with tentacles.
No, actually Cream Lemon came out with Tentacles before that, it's just Urotsukidoji took the concept to such an extreme, it became the model.

[Aubergine~!]

Slayven was born, and the sheer impact on the fabric of reality altered history in his image retroactively.

First thing I thought when I read the title, and i's the first reply. Well done, my Jaw brethren.

And that is why Aub will hunt you down and kill you.

No, I'm going to hunt him down for this:

i will not interupt the Yogi/Aub war...it is too full of passion and youth

*Starts writing Slayven/God's Greatest Joke lemon*

[Jack]

ARGHH! Aub, my fragile mental state cannot take such pain!

[Aubergine~!]

ARGHH! Aub, my fragile mental state cannot take such pain!

Just imagine Johnny Depp as Willy Wonka...

[RegalSin]

I just answering this question in a more direct approach.

There was never any original Hentai animation. Basically it started during the 1970's with

sexploitation films
Super Violence series
even Blacksploitation films

Then the 1980's rolled on in with

B-movies
Horror films.

many artists inflitrated works of there own lives. Later it was movies. However in television they could never ever show such stuff on television and thus the OVA was born.

Everybody remembers the sex scene in Terminator, Blade Runner, and even Dune ( if there was one ). Well that is how the idea of Hentai was born.

Also the situation of such series is born out of the "Golden Porn Age" ( not the 1980's ) but the 1950's and etc.. Where there situations, and stories was more realistic. To weirdo situations like from the XXX films "Deep Throat" and "Candy".
Keep in mind there was sex, pornography, nudity in films even before the United States was a country. Also some of these films from the Golden Age had people that was under age.

SInce you could put whatever you want on Video ( and now Video on DVD ) , they had the freedom to do as they please. The comic book artist true dream.
So the first logical, Hentai is Macross. Since this was the first OVA.

About Cream Lemon series. It was one of many series to include sex scenes, and or such situations. However to keep the series running, they wented into Hentai, since AV models, and So on was becoming extremly popular at the time.

About Japanese Hentai in the past. Many series born in the 1970's was from the 1960's occupication. In fact the occupication of Japan was there best years in terms of monies. We should have never left:eek:

Before, the Japanese had the Geshia's but exchanged that for modernization. It still exsists but is rare and more expensive then any OVA. There was also paintings that is no differnt then the ones from the Renasiances era. However, remember there diets was differnt from the westerns, and there usage of the brush is slightly differnt.

Also Japan was cut off from the world. This is why they stay the way they are. Nationalists. This is why there is items there that is in still usage from even the days of King Author. This is also why they are popular. They have managed to preseve there culture unlike the west including China. The only other country to even attempt to preseve there culture is Australlia, Russia, NKorea, Brasil and so on.

[DeadXMan]

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n67/Ozpunker/Motivation-11.jpg
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii373/SummerDesiree/Motivational%20Posters/55b9005f074210_full.jpg

Just chalk it up as byproduct of nuclear fallout. it makes life less complicated.

[OverMaster]

I choose the Tsuruya stall, any day of the week.

[MKTerra]

Hentai is just a logical extension of comics and animation as general-purpose media in Japan. Just as they have serious animated movies alongside live-action movies, they have animated porn alongside live-action porn.
http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii373/SummerDesiree/Motivational%20Posters/55b9005f074210_full.jpgThat one might actually be a Photoshop. (Then again, it could be real.)

[DeadXMan]

http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh56/NevadaWildcard/Motivational%20Posters/De_motivational_Poster_by_yuki_snow.jpg

seriously, It has to be the radiation.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I just wonder where would hentai be today, if the US hadn´t introduced some censorship laws after WW2.

[DeadXMan]

I don't know and I don't want to know.

God help us when Sony's true 3D tv become mainsteam.:eek:

[cosmic eagle]

http://i549.photobucket.com/albums/ii373/SummerDesiree/Motivational%20Posters/55b9005f074210_full.jpg



I want that toilet too....

[Aubergine~!]

I miss the Jaw Squad.

I don't even remember what we were talking about.

[tyciol]

I don't think anybody knows what the first hentai was but I think the most famous old one is the Fisherman's wife.

[RegalSin]

I don't think anybody knows what the first hentai was but I think the most famous old one is the Fisherman's wife.

wikipedia is not a factorial source of anything

do not use wikipedia for this topic. There is many varibles that influenced it.

hentai in general came from enrouge. Around the same time there was sexploitation films, along with the anti-society trend. Later was the movie trend.

In terms of sex comics, it has allways been around since like forever. It goes as far back as the ice age, and before that.

[Libaax]

Wow they did have sex comics in the Ice Age, how evolved they were back then :P

[Ghost]

wikipedia is not a factorial source of anything

Oh, for crying out loud.

Look, if you doubt the material, just check the damn sources. Is that really too much to ask? If it has no sources or the sources are stupid, you may have a valid point. But please don't try to suggest that the information from wikipedia is incorrect per definition.

Seriously, what's with the false dichotomy? Just because wikipedia is not guaranteed to be correct all the time, it does not mean it's automatically incorrect all the time.

[DarkBlade]

RegalSin, try again.

The awesome thing about Wikipedia is that anyone can come in and add their knowledge on the subject.

The bad thing about Wikipedia is that anyone can come in and add their (presumed) knowledge on the subject.

As Ghost said, check the sources. I tell my students all the time that Wikipedia can be a GREAT starting point for research, but you HAVE to look at the sources and see where the info's coming from.

[RegalSin]

Look, if you doubt the material, just check the damn sources. Is that really too much to ask? If it has no sources or the sources are stupid, you may have a valid point. But please don't try to suggest that the information from wikipedia is incorrect per definition.

The internet is a vast sea of kwoledge and wikipedia's mission is not to educate you but, limit the chance of obtaining random information. The problem with articles on wikipedia is that anybody can go around edting them, and all they have to provide source. Sources met by intrest and not the accuracy you are aiming for.

Also think about this. Back to the original question, Wikipedia mentions Cream Lemon as the source of Hentai. It goes further to dictate it as lolicon. It is like twenty five years never occured ( to whoever edited on wikipedia ). Completely ignoring Japanese origin history, the affects of occupication japan, and the transitions.


Seriously, what's with the false dichotomy? Just because wikipedia is not guaranteed to be correct all the time, it does not mean it's automatically incorrect all the time.

I understand how somebody would feel. Being able to browse something and beleive they can get a wide grasp on a concept. However wikipedia is robbing the internet of it's use. Limiting peoples suggestions, and making the internet into a limited branch.

I have edited some wikipedia's like more then twenty times or so. Only to find somebody edit my comment, then somebody else edit my editior's comment. Wikipedia will never ever give you a real answer.

If you really want to understand any topic then you need to get on hands and knee's and exprience it first hand.

Wow they did have sex comics in the Ice Age, how evolved they were back then :P

I am just trying to make a point. The "comic book in general" has been around in story books, legends, bibles, etc. From daily life, to folklore comics has came and went.

comics in general has been around even before man was able to cross the sea, and old as the idea of going into space.

[Libaax]

I know what you meant but ancient drawings on the walls is way different than modern comics that are mostly from early 1900s.

[RegalSin]

Okay the early 1900's is practically the brink of the industrial age, that leads to metropolis. Yes while we know that comic books along with various fictions was an escape from the horrors of the Slums, WorldWar, depression, and various difficulties of being tidy to slave under machines.

Comics have exsisted before columbus, before trade with Asia, and even before

Comic books is a combination of images and words to tell a story. Like Egyptian writing for example. Many cultures before the invention of paper ( or at least reasonable paper ) would make wood blocks, statues, and clay figurements to give some kind of piece of information away. This means that comics ( or what is a comic ) has been in exsistence as long as man has been recording or the idea of recording.

I know people want get there hands on everything in the world, however some things in unatianable in this world. imagine all the comic books left in writting format, tapped in a box of papers, in somebodys used computer, or even on a notepad. Waiting to be completed, where it's only faith is to be dumpted into a landfilled and recycled into toilet paper or even alumnium foil.

[The Xenos]

Hmmm... just thought of something. Anyone here know about Tijuana Bibles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tijuana_bible)? They're dirty little bootleg cartoon books that were popular in the earlier part of last century. Before hentai doujinshi, 'rule 34' and dirty cartoon websites, you had this as a cartoon porn ancestor. (And, yeah, I linked to Wikipedia. :p It is a good place to -start- researching a topic. Always check your sources of course. Also, don't use it as a source for a college level paper like that one student whose paperI had peer reviewed. This was even after the teacher specifically forbade it. Whoo...)

Also I want to say I heard how Ukiyo-e paintings in Japan were many times pornographic. I don't think it was all of them, but I think some of the more popular ones were. ;}

[Artemis Assassin]

"The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife" of Hokusai in 18-hundred-and-something often is referred to of the first, it's basically some woman being pleased by two octopuses, which would also explain where this hentai-fascination with tentacle-sex comes from....Oo

@Xenos: Yeh, I know, but only because I made apresentation about the history of American comic books once xD

[Holy Spirit]

Oh, for crying out loud.

Look, if you doubt the material, just check the damn sources. Is that really too much to ask?..........Yes. :evilsmile:

[RegalSin]

The ultimate explaination is

SEXPLOITATION FILMS.

Afterwards the peeping tom/sicko factor occured. AKA Hentai during the 1980's.

The differece between the sex comics and the ( Hentai ) perverted comics. The Hentai is telling a story, with a sex scene somewhere along the way. Many sex comics does not have a real story and just cuts to sex scenes.

The biggest impact is the cultural differnce. Including culture preservation.

In the USA the model woman is Elene Degenerate( mispelled ) or even the first lady ( Hillary ( Hilldog ) Clinton, Michael Obama, Barbra Bush ). Rather then Sarah Sliverman or Sarah Palin. This is why the romance novels for men that turned into Hentai is very prolific. Speaking of hentai, with the current Kawaii ( which I am so tired of ) trend, from the last ten years ( 2001-2010 ), Hentai is now referenced as lolicon. which is a completely differnt story.

Go watch Heavy Metal the animation or Spawn the Animated movie. Both are in the gere that comes before Hentai, and can fall under sexploitation. Why? Well both have sex scenes but the scenes aren't being perverted.

The main idea is "What are you, some kind of weirdo".
To recap. A picture taken of a nude person on purpose, is not Hentai, nore is pornography. A picture taken of a nude person in a sexual pose on purpose is pronography. A picture from a hidden camers with or, without welcome falls under hentai ( perverted ). since it is of perverted nature. Like when I was walking in a crowd, I spotted this guy taking pictures of girls legs. I zeroed behind him, and he quickly ignored me, then turned around as if he was not doing anything wrong. What the guy was doing was a perverted action. Like if I was outside with my camera filming people, and zooming in on womens legs. Like there was this other girl whome I blew a kiss to. She then started to call me "pervert". Thus the perverted nature of the comics.

The Syncronicity of sexploitation that was occuring during the 1960's is what eventually lead to the gere. In fact it all comes from the 1960's free love era. Before that, while there was comics for men, women, and children. The short cartoons dominated along with childrens books, and various other artforms. This eventually evolved. No differnt then the steel plow moved from nation to nation.

Think of Hentai as being a gere that comes after. Pulp novels, Harliquin Novels, Sexploitation, Romance novel. But is before Lolicon.

Anyone here know about Tijuana Bibles?

Many of them were parodys as with most comics of the 1920's-1950's. In fact many toons during the time was used for advertisment. These were probably made by draftsmen at the time. Since designers, have ( or at least had ) that talent.

Many comic books continued to go this route, in the west. Eventually this fell into pornography. Many sex cartoons, and comics ended up into men magazines, like Playboy, Penthouse, and other XXX related material. However since these were not taken seriously, at all. The comics/cartoons never caught on. They were never collected. If it was collected, I highly doubt anybody would know where to buy it. The presentation would probably be done incorrectly, nowadays thanks to the high usage of computer technology.

For the most part, many children in the USA, and Europe will never know how many Sex cartoons/ comics is produced in the west alone. Especially during the 1992 comic book era. You are even lucky to find any of them in high quality.

However most of these comics qaulities are less in storyline and is extremly
unrealistic. Most again are cartoon strips. made for the purpose of laughter.

Yes some time before 1960's the age of one paged cartoons dissapeared. Such toons was for the World War generations. They probably could tell you more about comic books like that.
Since comic books is about Batman, Dictracy, Spiderman, and Superman.
The comic book industry never even took society into seriousness. Instead cartoons was made in place of this. However the furries came around along with the underground gere. In general Manga is part of the Underground gere.

"The Dream of the Fisherman's Wife" of in 18-hundred-and-something often is referred to of the first, it's basically some woman being pleased by two octopuses, which would also explain where this hentai-fascination with tentacle-sex comes from....Oo

This is Hokusai which is practically illistration in Japan. . While this is part of Japanese culture. It is also eqaul to Roman culture as well. It is no differnt then the renaissance paintings. Like which tell stories, records people lives, fables, and so forth. This only proves that there was admiration of women before forced modernization ( westernization ) occured in Japan.

Today Hokusai ( illistration ) is classed on high culture art. Among various other art forms from pre-trade Japan.

About the Octopuss. Japan depends on the Ocean as there main source of food. This is why there is so many types of raw fish recipies in Japan. There is so many cartoon strips of octopusses doing human activities. In fact there was even a Mister Octopuss: Elementary school teacher on "Ninja Warrior".

[The Xenos]

The ultimate explaination is SEXPLOITATION FILMS.
Afterwards the peeping tom/sicko factor occured. AKA Hentai during the 1980's. Hmm.. not sure how they affected hentai.. but it's possible. Pretty sure porn comics predate that though. There definitely is a concurrent surfacing of porn comics and exploitation due to the sexual revolution and changing norms of the time. Pretty sure it happened in Japan to some degree in its own way too. Still, I think they're more concurrent movements in their respective medium due to overall culture changes about sex.
The differece between the sex comics and the ( Hentai ) perverted comics. The Hentai is telling a story, with a sex scene somewhere along the way. Many sex comics does not have a real story and just cuts to sex scenes. When you talk about sex comics in the US, I have to wonder, What sex comics? Bleeding Cool had an article (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/02/14/sex-and-comics-on-valentines-day/) about how porn comics and where to get them have all but disappeared. Meanwhile, over in Japan you can buy them at the local 7/11. They're as available as Hustler is here.
In the USA the model woman is Elene Degenerate( mispelled ) or even the first lady ( Hillary ( Hilldog ) Clinton, Michael Obama, Barbra Bush ). Rather then Sarah Sliverman or Sarah Palin. This is why the romance novels for men that turned into Hentai is very prolific. Speaking of hentai, with the current Kawaii ( which I am so tired of ) trend, from the last ten years ( 2001-2010 ), Hentai is now referenced as lolicon. which is a completely differnt story. O_O Wat? How does a paragraph go from Ellen and Hillary to lolicon hentai? ... Anyway, I don't think Barb is quite a role model as much as a grandmotherly one. Unless you can't stand Republicans. Meanwhile Palin is sadly seen as a role model by many Americans. Silverman isn't because she's barely known as a comedian, but the sidelining of female comedians in comedy is a whole other issue. Meanwhile Ellen isn't seen by a role model by many, sadly, because of her orientation.

As for "romance novels for men"? I think you got it backwards. Porn isn't really a romance novel for men as much as trashy romance novels are porn for women. (Twilight being a mainstream bleed over of that. Heh.)

I dunno if the lolicon subset of hentai has replaced hentai as much as it's the hentai that pushes the most buttons which gets it complained and debated the most. Though I guess in Japan there has been a push for bishojo with the whole moe craze of late. Not that 'moe' is defined as such, that's a whole other issue. Just that a large market of otaku fans in Japan are supporting these young girls as the objects of their affection and yen.
Go watch Heavy Metal the animation or Spawn the Animated movie. Both are in the gere that comes before Hentai, and can fall under sexploitation. Why? Well both have sex scenes but the scenes aren't being perverted. Adult and mature films and TV shows can have sex and not be pornography. I'm sure some prudes would ague they are, but they're not really. Hell, top drama shows like Sopranos or Californication and they're not porn.
Many comic books continued to go this route, in the west. Eventually this fell into pornography. Many sex cartoons, and comics ended up into men magazines, like Playboy, Penthouse, and other XXX related material. However since these were not taken seriously, at all. The comics/cartoons never caught on.
...
However most of these comics qaulities are less in storyline and is extremly
unrealistic. Most again are cartoon strips. made for the purpose of laughter. See, the trouble is this isn't just for porn comics, but for all comics and animation. Though will say that adult and adult pornographic comics are much more common as well as serious and story filled than you'd paint them in this comparison. There might even be some pornographic American comics that are more than joke strips and do contain story, but they are out there if you can hunt them down.
The comic book industry never even took society into seriousness. Instead cartoons was made in place of this. However the furries came around along with the underground gere. In general Manga is part of the Underground gere. The comic book industry never even took society into seriousness. Instead cartoons was made in place of this. However the furries came around along with the underground gere. In general Manga is part of the Underground here. Yet over in Japan manga is totally mainstream like television. Certain genres may be more niche and you also have an underground manga scene, but overall manga is mainstream.

[RegalSin]

Japan to some degree in its own way too.

Japanese are not special super hybrid people. They are people who are no differnt then us. They are not perfect as well. They like anybody participated in the world. They had television, and radio just like anybody else. They also had newspapers, books, and even comic books like anybody else. Speaking of
Japan being nothing special. There way of living was crushed, in exchange to live like us. Out of the ashes came a new breed of people, people that would then make this disaster benifit for all.

It is like how the South lost the "Civil War". In exchange for freeing the slaves.
They just made more laws to make it harder for slaves to work. In this case Japan lost war, and they just made it harder for a westerner to be a respected comic book artist.

I have to wonder, What sex comics?

They're as available as Hustler is here.

You just answered your own question. You see westerners want things to look real. By commercialism choice. It is like how some fully grown men are afraid of girls. Or how many people ( including myself ) is terrorified of roaches.
Our sitcoms, films, Penthouse, and playboy is our source for comics for men.

Nowadays people are watching You-tube. Now they are even trying to sell PDF files like books.

porn comics

Hentai is not pornography. People do not read the books to get a hard one. They read it for the stories. Speaking of which, only youthfull people is the only ones getting hard watching, or reading since most do not have the exprience of sex in there lives. The point is men like women for there bodies in most cases, and women like men for their personality in most cases. Eitherway
women and men wants the same thing. Fresh bodies. Women putting on make up while men hitting the gym. People like to be in the presence of good looking people. Good looking can be anything, but for the commercial, good looking is being healthy and having fun.

How does a paragraph go from Ellen and Hillary to lolicon hentai?

We are talking about the ideal women. In Japan they have the Gesiha.
If it is not that then it is having a housewife. If it is not that, then it is havine sex with with a young women. There is a certain respect for women, being women in Japan.

In my class last year I beleive my proffesor was under thirty, and had children and was married. Another student was under twenty just came in, and talked about her children. Then a male student said '' Why is that sooo many young women have children" All the women in class smiled.

The point is this. Nobody likes pugly. The Generation Xers, are old. The babyboomers are older. The WW generations are old, dying, and dead.
If they all was twenty, I bet the majority would go out and get it on with all the hot stash, and candy they could get there hands on. Go ask a really old man, or women. What would be the one thing you could do if you was 12, 16 or even 20. I bet the answer will be, go chase some girls, or go find some really bad boys. and hear them scream.

They even have a Princess day in Japan, like we have mothers day. You will never see an official womens day in America. It would just be another march towards being lesbian. being a women who can live alone, in a one bedroom apartment, with many lovers, eating tv dinners. Basically what a Single batchelor is.

In USA they make the ideal women into somebody who walks around no differnt then a man. Use fear of relgion, fear of AIDS, fear of harrasment laws
to make it impossible for people to go out with young women, womenly girls and feel sane. Commercialism as a tool is being used in the place of Terrorism. When in truth people do not care, and procceed using success as an alternative means.

About lolicon.

Lolicon is what Hentai is but....The difference is the drawing style. Many of the characters in lolicon is drawn out of proportion. In most cases, the women are in a representive look with the men in a realistic looks. In most senario's
the comic is joking on the subject as with Hentai in the past. You could turn any character in a comic book into lolicon. From wonderwoman, to Posion Ivy,
all of them could be a lolita class just by adjusting the poportion.
In fact perspective, and dimension also plays a part in this as well. It is by the artist own will the female characters age.

This is also called morphing the character. Take in Ultimate Muscle. The little cartoonish guy was the original muscle. In Ranma, again the old people are all melty and small. In bomberman, an old bomberman sound, and acted like a old person, but the only thing old was his beard. In Kingdom Hearts they made the main character "grewed up " by making his clothing smaller. In the begining of pokemon they morph ash from his comicbook self into his videogame self.

Meanwhile Palin is sadly seen as a role model by many Americans.

How is that sad? It is better then Britney Spears photo being hunged up on the wall in a recroom.


Silverman isn't because she's barely known as a comedian,

To you. Sally Sliverman is brilliant. She repesents everything the 1990's had to offer. Speaking to the current generation in there twenties, as well as the 1970's Generation X crowd. She did one bad joke, and that is why she was not as popular as that other female comedian ( with the orange hair ).

Ellen isn't seen by a role model by many

She an extremly great example of what a proffesional woman should be like. However not. She has stared in films, where she is portrayed as the idea for strong women. Not just lesbians. She is also very beautiful at the same time.

When you have people like her in the USA. It make people lives in the USA harder to be "what is normal". I spent my youth growing up with kid shows that tried to teach people about AIDS, violence, and harrasment. Stuff like that messes up peoples mind. It takes something they never even knew about and turns into a wobbly gun that could shoot anybody on the face of the planet. It is like that movie big brother. You could either die living or die being told to be told, that you do not have a right to live.

As for "romance novels for men"? I think you got it backwards. Porn isn't really a romance novel for men as much as trashy romance novels are porn for women. (Twilight being a mainstream bleed over of that. Heh.)


sexploitation is what was before Hentai. Hentai is basically sexploitation but when they zoom in on private areas. Hentai is basically the eqaul to Shojo.
Men/boys, and what not that is male wants to read about romance comics where there is sexaul explicit situations. Women also enjoy reading such comics, but want there to be romance. The comics does not have to be around sex, but revolves around idea itself. The reason why b-movies is popular is that they go back to the origin of standard film making.
This is why clerks is popular film.

Twilight is a bloody drama. Let me use this as an example. Both men and women take intrest in books like Twilight. Then somebody out of nowhere decides to make there own book, with more inhumain sexaul details. This is what the gere that comes before Hentai is. Which is sexploitation.

Just that a large market of otaku fans
Otaku are people who likes both videogames and comic books.

Adult and mature films and TV shows can have sex and not be pornography.

That is the exact discription that fits the gere before Hentai. However to mention, how the camera some how films in places where it shouldn't, would make it Hentai.

I'm sure some prudes would ague they are, but they're not really. Hell, top

drama shows like Sopranos or Californication and they're not porn.

The problem with public tv. You need to maintain a certain viewing level. If they do too much then it would fall into that category. However B-movies already do this alot. These movies are watched by all people.

Shows like those plays on peoples methods of thinking, rather then content itself. Between the actors there all kinds of things that affects the shows. Also these are actors, not models, who wouldn't mind having sex on film.
This is the brilliance of animation and the brilliance of comic books.
This is why only comic books can be so free unlike TV animated series. You buy a book, you buy it for yourself.

The comic book industry never even took society into seriousness.

This is why you need indivisual people to produce there own comic series, and
make it work.

Yet over in Japan manga is totally mainstream like television. Certain genres may be more niche and you also have an underground manga scene, but overall manga is mainstream.

Manga is just comic books to them. Regular comic books. No differnt then any other comic book. It originated from them. Outside Japan, Manga is mistaken for Japanese comic book. But you can never put a word that defines a nations
comics. What about other nations comics. Comic books are just comic books, but for some reason people cannot just think nothing of it. It causes all kinds of childish problems. It is mainstream, since that is the source of Manga.

[RegalSin]

Hmm.. not sure how they affected hentai

Without sexplotation, ( without the fee loving of the 1950-1970 ) Hentai would have been off for probably hundreds of years. Including the banning of drugs, aclochol, and the awareness of AIDS.

Pretty sure porn comics predate that though

The Japanese did not see Western comics and said. Owwhhhee wow weee.
They makem like that. Sexaul nature of comics have been around since the cave men drawing on the wall, or lovers cutting hearts in trees. Before that there was there was high-culture art, and childrens books. It was only the poplarity of sex itself ( during and after WWII ) that Japan produced comics that was about there lives, and the occurances. Meaning those comic books is what people beleived, wished, or lived at the time. Japanese like anybody else
watched tv, listen, to music, and read books. Sexploitation was no differnt in
Japan then the west.

[The Xenos]

Wow... Where do I even begin.
It is like how the South lost the "Civil War". In exchange for freeing the slaves.
They just made more laws to make it harder for slaves to work. In this case Japan lost war, and they just made it harder for a westerner to be a respected comic book artist. You know.. among other things. Dear heavens. There have been books written about the changers in post-WWII Japan. Hell, that foreigners aren't popular in comics is nothing new. I think you can atrribute that to centuries old xenophobia. One interesting thing that still continues to this day was MacArthur's censorship of their porn. The whole blanking out of genitals is still a law cartoonists and pornography in Japan tries to dance around.

Hentai is not pornography. People do not read the books to get a hard one. They read it for the stories. Speaking of which, only youthfull people is the only ones getting hard watching, or reading since most do not have the exprience of sex in there lives. The point is men like women for there bodies in most cases, and women like men for their personality in most cases. Eitherway
women and men wants the same thing. Fresh bodies. Women putting on make up while men hitting the gym. People like to be in the presence of good looking people. Good looking can be anything, but for the commercial, good looking is being healthy and having fun. When I read comments like that... I really wonder why I bother reading. Hentai isn't pornography? You're (or should I say Your) not really saying that in a thread about the origins of hentai, are you? -__- Ugh. Just forget it.

[The Xenos]

Wow. I sent this quote to a friend and he caught something.
In the USA the model woman is Elene Degenerate( mispelled ) or even the first lady ( Hillary ( Hilldog ) Clinton, Michael Obama, Barbra Bush ). Rather then Sarah Sliverman or Sarah Palin. This is why the romance novels for men that turned into Hentai is very prolific. Speaking of hentai, with the current Kawaii ( which I am so tired of ) trend, from the last ten years ( 2001-2010 ), Hentai is now referenced as lolicon. which is a completely differnt story.
Michael Obama
Geez. If you're not going to even pay attention to grammar, spelling, or even damn proper names, why are we even bother reading your posts? You know.. other than for disbelief and laughs. This isn't the first time you've almost gone out of your way to misspell a name. I know sometimes myself I get a bit hyper and my brain gets ahead of my fingers, but because of that I double check what I'm typing to see if it's coherent. I really suggest you double check what you type to see if other people can properly understand what you're saying.

That or such typos as these is all on purpose as some kinda trolling joke. I really don't know still.

[The Xenos]

Okay... I'm diving in trying to understand at least a few of these paragraphs. Actually, I'm also sending some to a friend and I think he may be on the floor twitching at some of these comments.

Let's dissect this section.
sexploitation is what was before Hentai. Hentai is basically sexploitation but when they zoom in on private areas. Hentai is basically the eqaul to Shojo.
Men/boys, and what not that is male wants to read about romance comics where there is sexaul explicit situations. Women also enjoy reading such comics, but want there to be romance. The comics does not have to be around sex, but revolves around idea itself. The reason why b-movies is popular is that they go back to the origin of standard film making.
This is why clerks is popular film.

Twilight is a bloody drama. Let me use this as an example. Both men and women take intrest in books like Twilight. Then somebody out of nowhere decides to make there own book, with more inhumain sexaul details. This is what the gere that comes before Hentai is. Which is sexploitation.
I actually think I see what's going on here. I still think your connection of sexploitation and hentai is apples and oranges. Yet when you say it's shojo, you're wrong. Yet I've seen this misconception a lot. You've mixing harem and shonen romance in with hentai and then comparing it to shojo. No. Even semi-porographic shonen stuff like Dear S or even tamer stuff like Love Hina are still shonen and not quite hentai. Guys have their romance just like shojo. Hentai IS pornography. Period. Literally it means perversion. It's not romance, it's porn, flat out. Sure it can have romance or a story, but it's porn. (Hurray porn.) And if it is hentai, yes, it has sex and is about sex.

And Clerks? I guess you refer to the lewd sex jokes, but that's not porn or a b movie. It's an indie budgeted slice of life comedy that included such sex jokes. Yet, as my friend said, " Clerks is popular because it was a poignant view of a day in the life of a clerk." The lewd jokes were icing on the cake.

And no, Twilight is not a drama. It's a trashy romance novel that gets girls (and some guys) nice and horny. Oddly enough it was written by a Mormon who is against pornography, but I highly doubt girls aren't pleasuring themselves to thoughts of Edward and Jacob. Hell, someone could read Playboy just for the articles, but it's still gonna be considered pornography.

And speaking of misconceptions..
Otaku are people who likes both videogames and comic books. Well, actually, in Japan the term either refers to any fanatic. There are military otaku, camera otku, baseball otaku. Plus the term literally stems from fans who stay "in the house" committing all their time to their hobby and are shut ins. Meanwhile Americans too often associate the term with anime fandom, but in reality the term is actually much more diverse.

Oi... and that's all the cometary I can take right about now...

[OverMaster]

Geez. If you're not going to even pay attention to grammar, spelling, or even damn proper names, why are we even bother reading your posts? You know.. other than for disbelief and laughs. This isn't the first time you've almost gone out of your way to misspell a name. I know sometimes myself I get a bit hyper and my brain gets ahead of my fingers, but because of that I double check what I'm typing to see if it's coherent. I really suggest you double check what you type to see if other people can properly understand what you're saying.

That or such typos as these is all on purpose as some kinda trolling joke. I really don't know still.

Given how he purposely puts 'mispelled' after Ellen's name, and writes 'Hildog' right next to 'Hilary', I guess at least part of it is an attempt to be witty by demeaning women. 'Degenerate' also looks like a major Freudian slip that tells a lot about his tolerance for those with different strokes.

[BigBoss]

Well you see when a man loves woman very mutch and he has crazy ass fantasies.
wants the whole world to see em and it just shows how mutch he really loves woman.

[RegalSin]

Do you really beleive the artist live those sex lives they animate? Even those worlds exsist? Nice ideas still.


Hell, that foreigners aren't popular in comics is nothing new.

There is a following of western comics in the east.

The whole blanking out of genitals is still a law cartoonists and pornography in Japan tries to dance around.


The law is gone. It is not Japan it is people in Japan. They keep it around as a joke. Japan is it's own nation. They have standards.

Hentai isn't pornography?

It is comic books for boys/mens. The same as with Shojo ( soaps ) for girls/women. Men and women read each other works. But never more then the other. Sexploitation bridges that gap. In between the gap is kiddie stuff like Dragon Balls, and Sailormoon.



sexploitation and hentai is apples and oranges


They are both fruit, while the same one is differnt then the other one.


you've mixing harem and shonen romance in with hentai and then comparing it to shojo.

Nope. Do you really think the artist who make the comic book really cares about what is what? That is the readers to decide. The realaity is this. There are comic books for boys/men and girls/women. Then there are comic books for children. Sometimes it is both and sometimes it is not. One of the last things that really matters in this topic. Think about it on the Dinsey scale.
Nobody cares about these Sub Sub geres. They just have them around to use as gimmick words.

semi-porographic

People who think that way, Must have a realllll problem with art.


Hentai IS pornography. Period.


Why? Who are you to even say this? Did you watch some special, or read an Article in Shonen Jump. Do you think women in uniforms are sexy? Prove it? All you have proven to me, is that You believe Hentai is no differnt then blah blah XXX movies. It is no differnt then a cheap hit below the balls. It has no real art value. Your saying the same thing those lilacs at the censorship rating systems, all believe. People who are not even fans of comic books, nore even take the time to become familiar with manga. like a school Prinicipal who listens to a tape kids was playing, dew to langauge.

However instead your somebody who just passing off the obvious.
How many comic books you own? How many do you read at random. I bet you just masturbate whatever you got down there without even, thinking about art in question.

Most women do not watch the stuff, since they think the same thing you think. This is a childish way of thinking. The same way youths would think.
Thus brining us back to what I mention before.

Sexploitation is the source. Everybody watches sexpliotation. Since Sexploitation falls under B-movies, and drama class films. While everything falls under drama. Sexploitation is the only one where sexual actions are shown.

Pornography is just taking a picture with any camera. For sexual purpose, and
not art, of admiration. AV movies is not of that same purpose.

About comic books, sex drawings has been aroud forever. From the old age art ( high culture art ) to the comics people, see in men and women magazines.
This is drawn with hands, and is thought out with percision. Not somebody taking shitty pictures at random.

And Clerks? I guess you refer to the lewd sex jokes, but that's not porn or a b movie

Clerks is a b-movie guy. Most of the actors was people in the area, including Kevin Smiths family. The mart was lent out to him for the film. The only portion of the film that had to be paid for, was the one song, that was used in the movie. There are lots of high qaulity films, and even expensive films that are b-movies. Many if not all sexploitation films are B-movies. Even pornography is classed as a B-movie type. With all the bitching about Japanese animation from the west, they are even B-movies too. If somebody made a animtion ( Sadly in todays world ) without using extreme computer software. They would probably class it as a B-movie.

Twilight is not a drama. It's a trashy romance novel that gets girls (and some guys) nice and horny

It is too a drama. What do you call degrassi??? What do you think women watch. Before it was the Witches of Eastwick, and Smallville. Then before that was Lois and Clark, and Days of Our lives. Even 21 jump street, saved by the bell was a drama. Those kinds of things are built for women in mind. While men do watch them too, women watch them more. The same with Shojo. What do you think women read/watch/dream of instead. Guess what. All can fall under sexploitation was well.


Oi... and that's all the cometary I can take right about now...


Currently, when I think of Xenos, I think of Xenomorph.

[The Xenos]

Hentai IS pornography. Period.Why? Who are you to even say this? Did you watch some special, or read an Article in Shonen Jump. Do you think women in uniforms are sexy? Prove it? All you have proven to me, is that You believe Hentai is no differnt then blah blah XXX movies. It is no differnt then a cheap hit below the balls. It has no real art value. Your saying the same thing those lilacs at the censorship rating systems, all believe. People who are not even fans of comic books, nore even take the time to become familiar with manga. like a school Prinicipal who listens to a tape kids was playing, dew to langauge. Actually, I took a class on it. Well, a general Japanese pop culture class, but there was part on manga and hentai was mentioned. Of course I didn't need to read articles on the market to know hentai is porn. You can have sex and T&A and, yes, sexplotation in your manga and it doens't have to be hentai. Hell, some people even call non-hardcore nudity and sex in comics their own genre, "ecchi". It also literally can translate as perverted just like the word 'hentai'. Though this is more stuff like older teen sex comedies. Think American Pie compared to Debbie Does Dallas.

Also
dew to langauge.
That's some good trolling there, sir. Good trolling.
However instead your somebody who just passing off the obvious.
How many comic books you own? How many do you read at random. I bet you just masturbate whatever you got down there without even, thinking about art in question. That's for me and my right hand to know. Though I do like to collect dirty books, from Alan Moore's Lost Girls to a 9/11 hentai manga called Viva Freedom by Tuna Empire. (Yes, 9/11 porn. God bless America and the freedoms of dirty comics that it allows. Being able to own that, I feel, separates us from opressive religious regimes like the Taliban or, ya know, the Bush administration.)

Most women do not watch the stuff, since they think the same thing you think. This is a childish way of thinking. The same way youths would think.
I take if you've not yet discovered the wild world of yaoi. Female nerds have their own porn mags, their own corner of the hentai market, full of cartoon gay sex. Of course women watch porn. Just not the same type. Well, unless you like seeing two pretty Japanese boys doing each other.
Pornography is just taking a picture with any camera. For sexual purpose, and
not art, of admiration. AV movies is not of that same purpose. Please, AV is porn too. You defintion of porn is total BS. Pornography is in the eye of the beholder. Is Caliguia art or pornography? Is Fritz the Cat? Is Deppthroat a legit film or is it just an obscene porn that should be confiscated? The FBI thought the latter back in the day. Hell, so what if something is pronography? So what if hentai is porn? Does that make it any worse? Should it be banned? Hentai is porn. And so what if it is?
About comic books, sex drawings has been aroud forever. From the old age art ( high culture art ) to the comics people, see in men and women magazines.
This is drawn with hands, and is thought out with percision. Not somebody taking shitty pictures at random. Wait.. so you think pornography is only photos? Wrong. Pornography can be photos, drawings, prose, sculpture, "murals, postcards, neckties, samplers, stained-glass windows, tattoos, anything!" Plus porn is just "shitty pcitures at random"? Way to insult photographers who try to make something out of pornography shoots. They're no less artists than the cartoonists drawing dirty pictures. Thanks for insulting the whole field of photography.
[Twilight] is too a drama. What do you call degrassi??? What do you think women watch. Before it was the Witches of Eastwick, and Smallville. Then before that was Lois and Clark, and Days of Our lives. Even 21 jump street, saved by the bell was a drama. Those kinds of things are built for women in mind. While men do watch them too, women watch them more. The same with Shojo. What do you think women read/watch/dream of instead. Guess what. All can fall under sexploitation was well. Yes, because all women are the same and watch Lifetime movies. :rolleyes: Belive me, my female friends think Smallville is a piece of crap. Supernatual on the other hand, is tops with them. Wait... you said Saved by the Bell was a drama on par with 21 Jump Street. Nothing you ever say can ever be valid.
Given how he purposely puts 'mispelled' after Ellen's name, and writes 'Hildog' right next to 'Hilary', I guess at least part of it is an attempt to be witty by demeaning women. 'Degenerate' also looks like a major Freudian slip that tells a lot about his tolerance for those with different strokes.Geez. Somehow I didn't even notice that Rush Limbaugh bs. I was just too much in awe of how incomprehensible the guy's argument was. Though I thought someone more neutral joked about Hillary as Hildog, unless that was taking some condervative blowhard's nickname and making a joke of it.

[master of read]

seriously, am i on crack? it must be cause regalsin's posts just dont follow any reasonable thought. i was gonna comment on it, seeing as i am the hentai god and this thread is only here by my will, but responding to that mess he calls arguments is...................draining.

[RegalSin]

Actually, I took a class on it. Well, a general Japanese pop culture class, but there was part on manga and hentai was mentioned. Of course I didn't need to read articles on the market to know hentai is porn.

What school? who was in operation of the class? what books you read? Where? You can't really learn about culture about another society, by taking a class stand alone. You actually have to live in the society first. About culture itself, you have to take it as a whole. The falseness and realism about it.

Well I went threw a whole bunch of transitions. I eventaully started to do research on my own. I then understood.


"ecchi". It also literally can translate as perverted just like the word 'hentai'. Though this is more stuff like older teen sex comedies. Think American Pie compared to Debbie Does Dallas.


Is just the opposite of lolicon. It is basically older women, like the New La Blue girl, and the way they refer to her as auntie.

hentai manga called Viva Freedom by Tuna Empire.

This is echhi. Meaning it plays on fetishes rather then actual actions. If it was a Hentai, or even pre-Hentai. Then it would be a poor one. Half of the entire thing is just going back in time, to various political events, involving the west. To people being taken hostage. In which half of those people are women. Then if it not that, it is the main characters fictional home. Ending with sexaul eplcit results. The material is anything, but not at the top. The artstyle while good, is just a step under commercial ( in my book). The art while very recent, is nothing to applause over. This is more of a cartoon. A political joke book then an actaully comic. Every single page ends with a punch line rather then a complete story itself. Is complete ignorant of the last set of events.

(Yes, 9/11 porn. God bless America and the freedoms of dirty comics that it allows.

What the heck does, media has to do with anything in this subject?
Yes god bless America, where a twelve year old can say that he is a homosexaul on Disney radio. Where men comics is looked down upon. Where somebody could waltz into power. Then another can waltz out ( like the Joker ).

Guess what? While Amerika is seperated by church and state. The majority of it's citizens is highly religious. Going to the middle east, was excuses. Weapons of mass destruction is no reason to launch any attack on a nation.
Hospitals, schools, blown up. You want to talk about propaganda, the USA is number one on that.

Terrorism is just the shanty word for "Freedom Fighters". Words started by the Brits. When they were planting the flag in the middle east. You how many attacks they have a day. Alot since the Amerian revolution, Irish revolution and so on.

They aren't blowing themselves up for no reason at all. They are doing it since they are put into a state of mind where they can. What do you think people do in the end when they can't take enough of the passe conversation. They are willing to die for there rights. Look at the American Civil War. People died for taxation without representation. If America had colonies on another planet. Would they have the same problem. Nope. Why? they would just make the workers sign contracts. Then call it crime when people broke those contracts.

Why did people go into a plane, and shot the skyline of glorious little oldNew Amsterdam. I will tell you. They brainwashed themselves into doing it. They did not have connections, they only dreamed of it. Americans self-destructing on there commercial beleifs.

It is so redundant, to not defend yourself, from a bloody knife in a plane. There is no way at all, people would take ditsqaut from a knife. The only possible conclusion was Americans thought they just wanted money, and was never going to hurt anybody. Like the people on the highway the other day. Lets sit back, and watch the cops take down a drunk driver. Then the cops pulled over each and every single one of them. Since they decided to stop and watch all the action. Nobody could be that affraid of knives, even plastic boxcutters.

separates us from opressive religious regimes like the Taliban

1. Before this war, they live just like us. You could vacation there if you wanted. They have there own set of rules to follow. It was not prison. It was like when USA banned all beer. They have...... ( had ) there own standards.

2. This country while great, is not perfect. We got men trying to have babies. People making a big deal about videogame violence. Instead making a better parent. Men even getting married, and calling it the same thing as between a man and women. Drug users, sellers, and curropted indivisuals. We have people living ghetto in what people think is clean, and safe neighborhoods. Hate crimes left to right. People who can't control there trigger finger. Media shaped to make everything in oder. Colleges where they stop teaching, portions of a whole.

America is like Soylent Greens. All people do is just eat each other till there is nothing leftover. The children of the past becomes bum, with immigrants taking there place. The immigrants do not even know the law. So they let the country slide into the maddness. When I say know the law, I am talking about issues that people should be aware of. Not ninny garbage that is turning this country into hash.

I take if you've not yet discovered the wild world of yaoi.

Yaoh is just when you switch the place of men and women. No more no less.

Female nerds have their own porn mags, their own corner of the hentai market, full of cartoon gay sex.

Those words make no sense and I am not even going into that.

Please, AV is porn too.

I am not even going to talk about this since it has nothing to do with this conversation. I just had to use the term.

You defintion of porn is total BS. Pornography is in the eye of the beholder. Is Caliguia pornography?

Sexploitation.

Is Fritz the Cat?

An attempt to make mature cartoons, However there is nothing adult about the situations at all. However it could be described as sexploitation. Pretty boring and sick minded if you ask me. Like watching a "Young Adult FIlm" where they use sex and profanity alot.

Deppthroat

Sexploitation film

Hell, so what if something is pronography? So what if hentai is porn? Does that make it any worse? Should it be banned? Hentai is porn. And so what if it is?

That is thing. It is not pornography. It is not poorly done works, for the mere amusement of sex. It is comic books, that comes from the gere that is sexploitation. Comics directed towards male auidience. You need to get the idea out of your mind, that if there is a sex scene, with nudity. Then it makes it pornography.

Wait.. so you think pornography is only photos? Wrong. Pornography can be photos, drawings, prose, sculpture, "murals, postcards, neckties, samplers, stained-glass windows, tattoos, anything!" Plus porn is just "shitty pcitures at random"?

Nope. If it was in a painting, sculpted into a bust, or even drawn by hand it is just a picture. When you assemble the images into a comic, add some words,
then it is art. Pornography does not require a high amount of creativity. While it is a gere in itself. It is mostly focursed around sex, rather then any senario given. There is no afterwards, just cheap thrills....

Way to insult photographers who try to make something out of pornography shoots.

A job is a job. Just like anybody else, they gotta do it good. A commercial artist is no differnt.

They're no less artists than the cartoonists drawing dirty pictures. Thanks for insulting the whole field of photography.

wwaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy oooooofffffffffffffffff.......


Yes, because all women are the same and watch Lifetime movies. :rolleyes: Belive me, my female friends think Smallville is a piece of crap. Supernatual on the other hand, is tops with them. Wait... you said Saved by the Bell was a drama on par with 21 Jump Street. Nothing you ever say can ever be valid.

differnt kinds of people, differnt kinds of tastes. Like I wuv mustard, you might adore Ketchup. In most cases, who would have the time to watch those shows? By the end they all turn into drama,s that is practically soaps. Look at the new 90210 series.

Lets just face it. You are completley Alien towards the sexploitaton gere. You beleive sex scenes being features in a comic makes it eqaul to pornography. If Killer Tomatoes ( another B-movie ) was to have sex scenes shown would it be porn aswell? Yet it was so popular, it got mad sequels, maybe even a comeback.

[Kevin M.]

hey aren't blowing themselves up for no reason at all. They are doing it since they are put into a state of mind where they can. What do you think people do in the end when they can't take enough of the passe conversation. They are willing to die for there rights. Look at the American Civil War. People died for taxation without representation. If America had colonies on another planet. Would they have the same problem. Nope. Why? they would just make the workers sign contracts. Then call it crime when people broke those contracts.




I just froze up trying to make sense of this one paragraph alone.

[Hazard]

I just froze up trying to make sense of this one paragraph alone.

It is rather mind-numbing isn't it?

Also The Xenos I commend you for actually having the patience to argue with that guy.

[master of read]

It is rather mind-numbing isn't it?

Also The Xenos I commend you for actually having the patience to argue with that guy.

ditto. i mean i've seen some trolls in my time but he takes the cake. he's the sosuke aizen of trolls.

the xenos, i'll put you up for sainthood just for attempting to deal with the guy.

[RegalSin]

A. Xeno's is making points towards pornography as being the source of Hentai.
What do you think people buy the stuff for? That is only reason why. Many cartoons, comics, and animations was only for that purpose.

B. Regalsin is making the points towards sexploitation being the source of
Hentai. Which society is where everybody walks around in work clothings?
Only in metropolis, and before the modern age. The Europeans.

It has come to a point, in which they both can agree to disagree. However in terms of the ultimate answer ( 42 ) there can not be two differnt answers.

Lets try to ask this question again.

How did Hentai come to be?

We can all agree the old world ( at least ) has an extremly recorded and developed history of nude drawings. from the cave people on the walls, to the cartoons in your playboy magazines.

I am saying while japan has had a history, in arts. Without sexploitation, and events like WWII. Romance would barely make it past the prisons of high culture art. While men ( probably ) did buy it for those needs. It is respected as any comic book art, and is not pornography. However many people would disagree, saying nobody cares about the comics themselves. I would disagree with those people, since pictures stand alone pictures would make these books, art books. Which has nothing to do with comic books but the artists intentions.

[OverMaster]

Why? Who are you to even say this? Did you watch some special, or read an Article in Shonen Jump.

Any newbie with two weeks of experience with anime knows Hentai indeed is pornography. Your demented attempts to reinvent the wheel aren't changing that at all.

What school? who was in operation of the class? what books you read? Where? You can't really learn about culture about another society, by taking a class stand alone. You actually have to live in the society first.

At this point, and given your astonishing amount of ignorance of the medium, I'll prefer to believe in pink unicorns than to believe you have lived in that society, despite your claims of aparently knowing more about it than everyone else here put together.

America is like Soylent Greens. All people do is just eat each other till there is nothing leftover. The children of the past becomes bum, with immigrants taking there place. The immigrants do not even know the law. So they let the country slide into the maddness. When I say know the law, I am talking about issues that people should be aware of. Not ninny garbage that is turning this country into hash.

This whole paragraph creeps me out, 'nuff said. Not to mention the underlying racism and xenophobia in the bolded part.

You defintion of porn is total BS. Pornography is in the eye of the beholder. Is Caliguia pornography?

I have watched that movie, and I think I can safely say YES, it is. You can call it 'sexplotation' all you want, but if it quacks like a duck, flies like a duck, swims like a duck, walks like a duck and fucks like a duck, then yeah, I'd say it's a duck.

Even if by today's standards it *might* not look *that* shocking compared to some of the modern pornographic material, it certainly was hardcore pornography back when it was made, and even today it qualifies.

Lets just face it. You are completley Alien towards the sexploitaton gere. You beleive sex scenes being features in a comic makes it eqaul to pornography. If Killer Tomatoes ( another B-movie ) was to have sex scenes shown would it be porn aswell? Yet it was so popular, it got mad sequels, maybe even a comeback.

A couple of sex scenes a porn movie don't make. Now, if Killer Tomatoes had sex scenes in Caligula's scale, then yes, the sex content would make it porn.

I don't want to know what kind of Bizarro World you inhabit where Deep Throat, one of the most widely recognized porn icons ever, isn't pornography, but just calling it 'sexplotation' isn't going to change 99% of humanity's perception of it.

[OverMaster]

A. Xeno's is making points towards pornography as being the source of Hentai.
What do you think people buy the stuff for? That is only reason why. Many cartoons, comics, and animations was only for that purpose.

B. Regalsin is making the points towards sexploitation being the source of
Hentai. Which society is where everybody walks around in work clothings?
Only in metropolis, and before the modern age. The Europeans.


I think I have more or less understood the root of most on your confusion on this matter (other than your rampant grammar flaws, but let's not get in there). You, for some reason, call 'sexplotation' what others call 'porn'.

To remain in the anime field and not give into your cross-culture random comparisons, something like Agent Aika or Eiken might be called 'sexplotation', or 'heavy, hardcore fanservice'. They have tons of nudity, innuendo and sexual references, but no extended copulation (or other kinds of intercourse) content. When that magic element is added in a sequential work, LIKE HENTAI DOES, then yes, it becomes pornography. Which can be called in many other ways, too, but at the end, it's still porn. Deal with it.

Also, why the talking in the third person about yourself now?

[Holy Spirit]

Also, why the talking in the third person about yourself now?

Cause it's fun! :biggrin:

[master of read]

A. Xeno's is making points towards pornography as being the source of Hentai.
What do you think people buy the stuff for? That is only reason why. Many cartoons, comics, and animations was only for that purpose.

B. Regalsin is making the points towards sexploitation being the source of
Hentai. Which society is where everybody walks around in work clothings?
Only in metropolis, and before the modern age. The Europeans.

It has come to a point, in which they both can agree to disagree. However in terms of the ultimate answer ( 42 ) there can not be two differnt answers.

Lets try to ask this question again.

How did Hentai come to be?

We can all agree the old world ( at least ) has an extremly recorded and developed history of nude drawings. from the cave people on the walls, to the cartoons in your playboy magazines.

I am saying while japan has had a history, in arts. Without sexploitation, and events like WWII. Romance would barely make it past the prisons of high culture art. While men ( probably ) did buy it for those needs. It is respected as any comic book art, and is not pornography. However many people would disagree, saying nobody cares about the comics themselves. I would disagree with those people, since pictures stand alone pictures would make these books, art books. Which has nothing to do with comic books but the artists intentions.

its amazing. utterly amazing how you can say so much and say absolutely nothing relevant nor reasonable.

[Inkthinker]

[Hentai] is respected as any comic book art, and is not pornography.

This made me laugh very hard. "LOL" does not begin to describe it. :biggrin:

[The Xenos]

I feel like Jacques Cousteau, or maybe Steve Zissou, diving into a strange and scary underwater wonderland. Is there a bottom to the depths of un-logic we can sink to? Let us to you and eye to see zis strange world that lies beneath ze vaves..
What school? who was in operation of the class? what books you read? Where? You can't really learn about culture about another society, by taking a class stand alone. You actually have to live in the society first. About culture itself, you have to take it as a whole. The falseness and realism about it.
Well I went threw a whole bunch of transitions. I eventaully started to do research on my own. I then understood. It was a college course and the teacher was from Japan. Though I think she was a bit more into the boy bands presentation than the hentai one. Meanwhile, I've had a number of friends who have lived in Japan. I myself have gone over there and gone to the mecca of manga Akihabara. While I will say that the line in manga between porn and ecchi, hentai and sexplotation, is much more blurred than you find elsewhere, hentai definable falls into the pron category. And boy was there plenty of it. While you still get black bars and mosaics, the hentai manga were very explicit in their sex scenes. Of course you never say what you've read to back up your strange defition of hentai. Cause when a guy is stuffing his dick into a girl in full detail, see, to me that's porn.
[ecchi] just the opposite of lolicon. It is basically older women, like the New La Blue girl, and the way they refer to her as auntie. No, you have lolicon in ecchi too. The explicitness of the sex scene does not make it any more or less lolicon. Hell, the term lolicon is used about people too, not just manga. I've seen characters use it in regular anime. Of course lolicon is just a combo of Enligsh words anyway. Lolicon is its own qualifier irrelevant of hentai or ecchi.
[Viva Freedom by Tuna Empire] This is echhi. Meaning it plays on fetishes rather then actual actions. If it was a Hentai, or even pre-Hentai. Then it would be a poor one. Half of the entire thing is just going back in time, to various political events, involving the west. To people being taken hostage. In which half of those people are women. Then if it not that, it is the main characters fictional home. Ending with sexaul eplcit results. The material is anything, but not at the top. The artstyle while good, is just a step under commercial ( in my book). The art while very recent, is nothing to applause over. This is more of a cartoon. A political joke book then an actaully comic. Every single page ends with a punch line rather then a complete story itself. Is complete ignorant of the last set of events. I love how you're reviewing a book you've never read. No, that's not what it is at all. It starts with a girl in NYC on Sept 11. Then she ends up in Afganistan.. and then gets gangbanged by a bunch of Taliban members. Then there's a scene where Bush and Saddam are having a threesome with a large breasted girl. If having Bush and Saddam balls deep in a girl isn't porn, even as a political cartoon, I don't know what is. I don't know why you think something being pornographic is exclusive. Something can be both pornographic and a poiltical commentary. Something can be both and art house film and pornographic. Something can be both sexplotation and pornographic. Hell, even within pornography there's definitions and separations, like hardcore and softcore.
They are willing to die for there rights. Look at the American Civil War. People died for taxation without representation. If America had colonies on another planet. Would they have the same problem. Nope. Why? they would just make the workers sign contracts. Then call it crime when people broke those contracts. Why do I have a feeling this is the guy that did those Star Wars and Avatar review (http://www.blancscreencinema.com/redlettermedia/reviews.html)s come to life? Seriously, this guy is either trolling hardcore or.. um.. well.. something else. Hell, this line naming the Revolutionary War as the Civil War is almost directly lifted from when he names Cuban Missle Crisis as World War I (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG1AWVLnl48#t=5m02s). Or when he names Shakespere as Williams Shakesman. The trouble is that while those reviews actually have a good point behind the madness they're dressed up as, these posts are just nonsense.
[the Taliban] 1. Before this war, they live just like us. You could vacation there if you wanted. They have there own set of rules to follow. It was not prison. It was like when USA banned all beer. They have...... ( had ) there own standards. Yeah, Afganistan was a tourist hot spot. They did have their own set of rules to follow, why should the would complain. Like if they want to treat women as second class citizens with no human rights, why not? If they want to bomb ancient Buddhist statues that were the largest in the world, go right ahead! Anyway...
I take if you've not yet discovered the wild world of yaoi.Yaoh is just when you switch the place of men and women. No more no less. See, when you misspell proper words when they spelt right in the sentence you're quoting, that's a sure sign you're just trolling and BSing us all with your posts. You're clearly just getting a laugh out of all of this. If I wasn't getting one too, I wouldn't bother, but reading this are actually pretty enjoyable.
[Deepthroat] Sexploitation film As pointed out before you're arguing that one of the most famous porn films... is not porn. BRILLIANT!
Female nerds have their own porn mags, their own corner of the hentai market, full of cartoon gay sex.Those words make no sense and I am not even going into that. If ever there was a pot calling the kettle black moment....

[RegalSin]

Any newbie with two weeks of experience with anime knows Hentai indeed is pornography. Your demented attempts to reinvent the wheel aren't changing that at all.


Pornography is just people having sex. They might try to have a story, which might end up becoming a sexploitation film. However most are not high ranking enough. Since they just show people having sex.

You can not take peak at something and pass judgement. Looking at one scene of a movie is not going to make it pornography. Ohhh look Jhonny Conner's mom is having sex with the guy from the future. Or even in blade runner, where the main character has sex with woman who discovered she is an robot. Oh look Wayne is haviing sex with his girlfreind. Sex is part of life. Sex is a real action like any other. Sex is part of standard storytelling.

You have to understand sex is a young action. Most young adult films use sex to get auidience. Not something a thirty year old can actually enjoy. Sex is meant for people, going threw puberty. Not for people who is going threw parenthood, money issues, or middle age crisis.


knowing more about it than everyone else here put together.


Well if most of everybody chooses to disagree with the idea of sexploitation having nothing to do with Perverted comics. Then that must be true. However since it is like 9999 against 1, yet this one is trying to find answers. I must be the only crackpot expert in the room then? The only one who actually has real exprience. I am Christopher Columbus. I say the world is round and we can get to India. I could see all of you guys in my crew crying and screaming mutany.


This whole paragraph creeps me out, 'nuff said. Not to mention the underlying racism and xenophobia in the bolded part.

You got people comming in from all over trying a fresh start. You got people joining the military, trying a fresh start. You got bums who can't speak english, who is blind, and without various bodyparts. All of this is in Amerika.

Bizarro World

I live in a world where sex is a normal part fiction.

Pornography, they show the parts on purpose. With no regaurd to body. It is
like watching people mash baby goldfishies senseless. Then eating them without no regaurd for taste. Then smilling and saying, that was gooooooeeeddd carp.

About Hentai, your just being like those perverts who skip around to the sex scenes. Without no reguard for the animation, comicbook, or videogame itself.
Next your going tell me how you went to SEARS to get a scarf but instead decided to peak in the ladies changing room.

I think she was a bit more into the boy bands presentation than the hentai one.

She is a girlll....Therefore she is obviously going to refer less to the subject of mens comics. I bet there is somebody out there like me, who can go on forever about Shojo series.

Meanwhile, I've had a number of friends who have lived in Japan.

Lucky you.

I myself have gone over there and gone to the mecca of manga Akihabara.

Akiba directory is just a place where a bunch of Otaku based stores have opened up. Also there is a huge difference between growing up somewhere, Living somewhere, and taking a trip somewhere.

I will be honest. For a shortime in my life, I wanted become a Japanese citizen. Then years passed and realized everything I could ever do in Japan,
I could do at home as well. Living there could never be enough for me. Since it could never mean true victory.

The last I would want to do. Is fly ten thousand miles away to what I can have in my own yard, at home. It is like a Japanese person coming to USA. To sip a cup of tea, and buy tea sets. Visit the tea factory. Has to be some pretty damn good tea.

is much more blurred than you find elsewhere,
When was this 1989 you went to Japan? Was the condom bann on aswel.

the hentai manga were very explicit in their sex scenes.

The whole idea or a perverted comic is be extremly sick in it's nature. Sexploitation comics while occurant, is not of such extreme.
This is why sexploitation is the defacto source of Hentai films.

You want me to take another path? Since you could pretty much animate, and make comics about everything, People did just that. Since the sky is the limit. The only limit was publishing, and filming rules.


I love how you're reviewing a book you've never read.

That thing was ecchi. There is nothing sexploitive about it. Just a overly mature woman running around the world, in various sexaul situations. echhi is mild like that.


lolicon is used about people too, not just manga. I've seen characters use it in regular anime.

Yes people could call each newspaper, and baseball heads. Hentai and ecchi are also words people call each other.


Of course lolicon is just a combo of Enligsh words anyway

Various countries, adopt other peoples words. Can you guess the term that defines Chinese comics? Baseball was a game started in America but somehow became the official commercial sport of Japan. Like how people in the west attempt to adopt Manga, while attempting to interpret it as there own. The USA adopted Rugby and called it football. Then somehow Football got turned into soccer.


having Bush and Saddam balls deep in a girl

Show you how much you pay attention to what you read. She only did that to make peace and wuv. Peace and wuv ( like Vash would say ).


Like if they want to treat women as second class citizens with no human rights, why not?

So we should attack Saudi Arabia too? Look various countries, have there laws. In this entire region, the majority of the place is religious. That is there country. The USA has no rights to tell them how to live and establishing a false democracy. Putting the area in a Civil War type state.

Nobody has the right to enforce foreign laws on other countries. It is like the way each US state has there own laws. If each state was to say the same thing, alot of peoples live would be f--ed up. Like OJ Simpson for example. Who was found guilty in one state but not another. In the middle east, you got young young women without no head coverings, prosituting there bodies
on the street. Getting nose jobs, since they do not feel they are beautiful.

The so called anti-terrorist effort, is not going to end until they commit genocide to the Arab people. Until the entire area is just lite up white, with zionists. In my own opinion I beleive the lost of human lives is leading no where whatsoever.


when you misspell proper words


If you want to play linguistics now. In Japan while English is used, there is no true way to spell there words with Roman characters. vice versa. You know Brazil is spelled Brasil in it's own true touge?? About how Spain is really Espaina. The same way Japan is really Nippon. But the p sounds like an h.

famous porn films..


Back then when, sexploitation was around alot. pornography got intertwine with it. The reason why the movie is really popular is the film value. However it is just not scene after scene of sex. Without the story it would just be porn.

This made me laugh very hard. "LOL" does not begin to describe it.

This is whats wrong with manga, in the USA. When people do not take comic books seriously nothing occur. This is why garden gnomes are given more credit then manga format comics.

[master of read]

Pornography is just people having sex. They might try to have a story, which might end up becoming a sexploitation film. However most are not high ranking enough. Since they just show people having sex.

You can not take peak at something and pass judgement. Looking at one scene of a movie is not going to make it pornography. Ohhh look Jhonny Conner's mom is having sex with the guy from the future. Or even in blade runner, where the main character has sex with woman who discovered she is an robot. Oh look Wayne is haviing sex with his girlfreind. Sex is part of life. Sex is a real action like any other. Sex is part of standard storytelling.

You have to understand sex is a young action. Most young adult films use sex to get auidience. Not something a thirty year old can actually enjoy. Sex is meant for people, going threw puberty. Not for people who is going threw parenthood, money issues, or middle age crisis.



Well if most of everybody chooses to disagree with the idea of sexploitation having nothing to do with Perverted comics. Then that must be true. However since it is like 9999 against 1, yet this one is trying to find answers. I must be the only crackpot expert in the room then? The only one who actually has real exprience. I am Christopher Columbus. I say the world is round and we can get to India. I could see all of you guys in my crew crying and screaming mutany.



You got people comming in from all over trying a fresh start. You got people joining the military, trying a fresh start. You got bums who can't speak english, who is blind, and without various bodyparts. All of this is in Amerika.



I live in a world where sex is a normal part fiction.

Pornography, they show the parts on purpose. With no regaurd to body. It is
like watching people mash baby goldfishies senseless. Then eating them without no regaurd for taste. Then smilling and saying, that was gooooooeeeddd carp.

About Hentai, your just being like those perverts who skip around to the sex scenes. Without no reguard for the animation, comicbook, or videogame itself.
Next your going tell me how you went to SEARS to get a scarf but instead decided to peak in the ladies changing room.



She is a girlll....Therefore she is obviously going to refer less to the subject of mens comics. I bet there is somebody out there like me, who can go on forever about Shojo series.



Lucky you.



Akiba directory is just a place where a bunch of Otaku based stores have opened up. Also there is a huge difference between growing up somewhere, Living somewhere, and taking a trip somewhere.

I will be honest. For a shortime in my life, I wanted become a Japanese citizen. Then years passed and realized everything I could ever do in Japan,
I could do at home as well. Living there could never be enough for me. Since it could never mean true victory.

The last I would want to do. Is fly ten thousand miles away to what I can have in my own yard, at home. It is like a Japanese person coming to USA. To sip a cup of tea, and buy tea sets. Visit the tea factory. Has to be some pretty damn good tea.


When was this 1989 you went to Japan? Was the condom bann on aswel.



The whole idea or a perverted comic is be extremly sick in it's nature. Sexploitation comics while occurant, is not of such extreme.
This is why sexploitation is the defacto source of Hentai films.

You want me to take another path? Since you could pretty much animate, and make comics about everything, People did just that. Since the sky is the limit. The only limit was publishing, and filming rules.



That thing was ecchi. There is nothing sexploitive about it. Just a overly mature woman running around the world, in various sexaul situations. echhi is mild like that.



Yes people could call each newspaper, and baseball heads. Hentai and ecchi are also words people call each other.



Various countries, adopt other peoples words. Can you guess the term that defines Chinese comics? Baseball was a game started in America but somehow became the official commercial sport of Japan. Like how people in the west attempt to adopt Manga, while attempting to interpret it as there own. The USA adopted Rugby and called it football. Then somehow Football got turned into soccer.



Show you how much you pay attention to what you read. She only did that to make peace and wuv. Peace and wuv ( like Vash would say ).



So we should attack Saudi Arabia too? Look various countries, have there laws. In this entire region, the majority of the place is religious. That is there country. The USA has no rights to tell them how to live and establishing a false democracy. Putting the area in a Civil War type state.

Nobody has the right to enforce foreign laws on other countries. It is like the way each US state has there own laws. If each state was to say the same thing, alot of peoples live would be f--ed up. Like OJ Simpson for example. Who was found guilty in one state but not another. In the middle east, you got young young women without no head coverings, prosituting there bodies
on the street. Getting nose jobs, since they do not feel they are beautiful.

The so called anti-terrorist effort, is not going to end until they commit genocide to the Arab people. Until the entire area is just lite up white, with zionists. In my own opinion I beleive the lost of human lives is leading no where whatsoever.



If you want to play linguistics now. In Japan while English is used, there is no true way to spell there words with Roman characters. vice versa. You know Brazil is spelled Brasil in it's own true touge?? About how Spain is really Espaina. The same way Japan is really Nippon. But the p sounds like an h.



Back then when, sexploitation was around alot. pornography got intertwine with it. The reason why the movie is really popular is the film value. However it is just not scene after scene of sex. Without the story it would just be porn.



This is whats wrong with manga, in the USA. When people do not take comic books seriously nothing occur. This is why garden gnomes are given more credit then manga format comics.


now this is post is so stupid, i cant even comment. you really are just trolling and have no idea of what you are talking about.

[DarkBlade]

Alright, this thread has had it's weird tangents and a LOT of nonsense, and I'm locking it. If anyone would like to continue an academic discussion of hentai, it's origins, and its current standing in modern cultures, please feel free to do so here (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?p=10615121).

RegalSin, I strongly suggest that you avoid any other threads on the subject. Your posts have failed to keep any sort of logic or cohesiveness, you are trying to rile people up, and you are making numerous factually inaccurate statements. Trolling is not appreciated, and will get you banned.