View Full Version : Dave Matthews: Talented iconoclast or ...
TheMuertoCorpse
03-17-2005, 08:36 AM
whiney, assembly-line "ärtist"?
Just wanted to see what youguys think...among my friends opinions regarding this guy and his band are sharply polarized...either my buddies HATE him or LOVE them.
I personally find him sorta dull, musically, but I would love to hear your opinions...
Dennis K
03-17-2005, 08:45 AM
I liked his first couple of CDs, but I stopped when he went from being Dave Matthews to DAVE MATTHEWS, you know what I mean? I also "blame" him for the current glut of sensitive singer-songwriters.
Shellhead
03-17-2005, 08:57 AM
I consider him somewhat talented and yet very dull. His voice is highly overrated and he lacks creativity.
Jonathan Bogart
03-17-2005, 09:08 AM
Thumbs down.
Voncaster
03-17-2005, 09:38 AM
DAVE MATTHEWS was just way too over exposed for me when I was growing up. Literally everyone in high school thought he was the jam. I think he is a great artist but over exposure killed my interest in anything he does.
Hiromi
03-17-2005, 09:41 AM
I can listen to him on the radio without changing it, don't exactly like him and haven't nor do I plan on spending money on an album.
TheMuertoCorpse
03-17-2005, 10:25 AM
I consider him somewhat talented and yet very dull. His voice is highly overrated .
I feel somewhat the same way...
Jonathan Bogart
03-17-2005, 10:53 AM
By the way, I don't think even his hardest-core fans could consider him an "iconoclast." He fits easily into the 90s' singer-songwriter mold, with music that sounds more inspired by the Eagles than anything else.
Reptisaurus!
03-17-2005, 12:37 PM
I think he has a darn good band. Great Drummer.
Seriously, I'd be a huge Dave Mathews Band fan if they'd only get rid of Dave Mathews.
*Sniff*
I can smell fakey soul a mile away, and the man is just dripping with it. Not an ounce of passion in his body, just a calculted front.
I think he has a darn good band. Great Drummer.
Seriously, I'd be a huge Dave Mathews Band fan if they'd only get rid of Dave Mathews.
*Sniff*
I can smell fakey soul a mile away, and the man is just dripping with it. Not an ounce of passion in his body, just a calculted front.
Agreed, if anyone can listen to a live version of...say, jimi thing, and say the band is talentless or boring, they need to head back to music school.
His voice...take it or leave it, and his lyrics are horrible, but damned if that band can't play live.
Shade
03-17-2005, 12:56 PM
I think he's excellent but I'm biased. I had the opportunity to see in alot before he was ever heard of. His band is fantastic. I once went to a college part where Boyd Tinsley (fiddle player) was playing by himself and was blown away.
Ilash
03-17-2005, 01:33 PM
Well he dueted rather nicely with Mick Jagger on Memory Motel on the Stones' No Security live album. Other than that, nah, I don't care for his music at all.
zombie
03-17-2005, 02:06 PM
I don't hate him, but I've never felt the need to buy any of his music, or even download any of it. If it's on the radio I won't change the station, but I won't go out of my way to listen to him.
I can't help it, I've got some great memories associated with his songs...
yeah, he's talented, but not exactly an iconoclast. I think I'm one of those in the middle, I can appreciate him and I don't hate him, but, I've heard him sounding very bad on stage and people continue to mock him, esp. the younger generations.
Jonathan Bogart
03-17-2005, 03:31 PM
people continue to mock him, esp. the younger generations.
Younger ... gener ...
Goddammit, now I feel OLD!
Younger ... gener ...
Goddammit, now I feel OLD!but if you mock him, JB, then you should feel Revitalized!!! :D
Cash Lone
03-17-2005, 04:48 PM
Matthews and his band are talented musicians.
With that said - He sucks. His singing sucks. His songwriting sucks. His lyrics suck. His album covers suck. SUCK SUCK SUCK OVER AND OVER AGAIN.....
Theres one song of his on the radio where he sings something about "the traffic jam and the beach got sand" - oh, sweet zombie jesus - matthews voice is so trebly like a honking horn and annoying. I wanna swerve my car into oncoming traffic when I hear that song on the radio.
Sheldon
03-17-2005, 05:03 PM
Yeah they are super talented musicians, but sometimes they need to told to end the bloody jam session.
That said I do have a soft spot for satellite.
leonaozaki
03-17-2005, 07:33 PM
I can't help it, I've got some great memories associated with his songs...
yeah, he's talented, but not exactly an iconoclast. I think I'm one of those in the middle, I can appreciate him and I don't hate him, but, I've heard him sounding very bad on stage and people continue to mock him, esp. the younger generations.
I mock him at every opportunity I get and I don't think I'm from a 'younger' generation. 1974: what does that make me?
rob
Adam Crocker
03-17-2005, 08:58 PM
I mock him at every opportunity I get and I don't think I'm from a 'younger' generation. 1974: what does that make me?
A man of taste? :confused:
Yeah they are super talented musicians, but sometimes they need to told to end the bloody jam session.
That said I do have a soft spot for satellite.
Thats so telling, because satellite doesn't even have a jam and they play it in supermarkets, so your first setence actually jars with the second.
As for their jams, listen to a real jam band, and you will come to appreicate DMB more in that respect.
15 minutes instead of 3.....now, depending on the mood im in, i could take either.
akaurdaddy
03-18-2005, 06:32 AM
hey im okay with them, and they're talented, especially doing live.
for those who find them boring, i dunno what's wif you, their solos are enuf to kill
phoenixrising
03-21-2005, 12:57 AM
Well, as the only DMB fan on here, apparently, I have to speak up. I love their music, I have since I was 12 when I first heard "Ants Marching" on the radio. I own all the CDs, have seen them live 8 or 9 times....I lov eit depsite its no longer "trendy" to do so. Actually, the "in" thing now is to hate DMB (scenesters!).
I think the band has its own sound, mostly because of, not in spite of, Dave's unconventional voice and the combination of sax, fiddle and excellent guitar work (typically from Tim Reynolds tho, not Dave). I personally enjoy the lyrics and each member of the band brings a great style that really comes together in concert.
So sue me. Apparently, I have to listen to metal or suck-ass emo bands no one has heard of to be "cool" these days.
Shellhead
03-21-2005, 07:20 AM
Dave's unconventional voice
I will have to remember that turn of expression. It's very kind and tactful.
zombie
03-21-2005, 07:43 AM
Well, as the only DMB fan on here, apparently, I have to speak up. I love their music, I have since I was 12 when I first heard "Ants Marching" on the radio. I own all the CDs, have seen them live 8 or 9 times....I lov eit depsite its no longer "trendy" to do so. Actually, the "in" thing now is to hate DMB (scenesters!).
I think the band has its own sound, mostly because of, not in spite of, Dave's unconventional voice and the combination of sax, fiddle and excellent guitar work (typically from Tim Reynolds tho, not Dave). I personally enjoy the lyrics and each member of the band brings a great style that really comes together in concert.
So sue me. Apparently, I have to listen to metal or suck-ass emo bands no one has heard of to be "cool" these days.
It is possible for people to just not like the band, rather than doing it because it's "cool".
Jonathan Bogart
03-21-2005, 07:48 AM
Put me down as a non-fan of metal and suck-ass emo as well.
Shellhead
03-21-2005, 08:16 AM
There is a lot of new music out there, so much more than just Dave Matthews, nu metal, and emo. Thanks to corporate radio giants like Clear Channel, it's harder to hear most of that new music, but everybody in this forum has access to the internet. You can also try college radio, local music, and newer record stores that let you listen to samples on the head phones just by scanning the bar code. It may take some effort, but it beats the alternative of just waiting for corporations to tell you what to hear.
It's disappointing that this forum spends so much energy discussing classic rock and rap. There is so much more to talk about, either in terms of genre or time period.
Buried Alien
03-21-2005, 10:36 AM
I agree that Dave Matthews' music is dull...in a manner not unlike the way James Taylor's music was dull back in the 1970s. It's not necessarily bad music, but for some reason, doesn't inspire much excitement.
Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)
Punchy
03-21-2005, 11:47 AM
Dave Matthews is fine. I'm a fan of his first couple of albums. But it seems to me that the band has kind of run their course and there hasn't been much new or interesting happening with them for a while. And I think the sax player is average at best.
StoneGold
03-21-2005, 11:58 AM
He'd make a wonderful star of German scheise films.
Jonathan Bogart
03-21-2005, 01:17 PM
It's disappointing that this forum spends so much energy discussing classic rock and rap. There is so much more to talk about, either in terms of genre or time period.
I agree. It seems like every time I try, though, the response is deafening silence. For better or worse, classic rock and rap are the two genres that enough people here have a common interest in to spark conversation.
(That could probably have been more elegantly phrased. But since it's unlikely that the editors of the Paris Review will ever see this, I'll let it stand.)
elheffe
03-21-2005, 02:41 PM
"Crash in to Me" and "Ants Marching" are okay.
Phrozen
03-21-2005, 03:33 PM
Well, as the only DMB fan on here, apparently, I have to speak up. I love their music, I have since I was 12 when I first heard "Ants Marching" on the radio. I own all the CDs, have seen them live 8 or 9 times....I lov eit depsite its no longer "trendy" to do so. Actually, the "in" thing now is to hate DMB (scenesters!).
I think the band has its own sound, mostly because of, not in spite of, Dave's unconventional voice and the combination of sax, fiddle and excellent guitar work (typically from Tim Reynolds tho, not Dave). I personally enjoy the lyrics and each member of the band brings a great style that really comes together in concert.
So sue me. Apparently, I have to listen to metal or suck-ass emo bands no one has heard of to be "cool" these days.
I have hated them from the beginning. That is nu-metal which sucks. I like more Power Metal, Speed, & Thrash.
Spastic Minnow
03-21-2005, 03:35 PM
A couple years ago I was in another forum talking about lesser known bands and a member says she likes DMB and while she thinks they're not the best thing ever she thinks they're pretty original and should get more exposure. Of course she gets pounced on immediately for calling them under exposed, but here's the hitch, she's from Australia and had no idea they were so popular in the U.S. Another woman from Italy chimes in to say she likes what's she's heard and also had no idea what everyone else thought of them over here.
The "hate" for DMB is just overblown.
leonaozaki
03-21-2005, 03:49 PM
So sue me. Apparently, I have to listen to metal or suck-ass emo bands no one has heard of to be "cool" these days.
I am -far- from cool, and I -still- hate DMB. Actually I think I hate Dave Matthews himself more than the band, who are, as has been noted, talented musicians.
Dave Matthews himself comes off as a whiny, uber-sensitive, New Age Man who can't sing. And I mean he really can't sing. He's not even a talented Dylan/Cohen-esque talented non-singer, adept at getting a wide range of expression out of a limited instrument-- he has a limited instrument and doesn't know what to do with it.
Two examples were to me telling:
1) His 'duet' with the Rolling Stones on "Wild Horses." Killed the song dead.
2) His CROSSROADS 'duet' with Emmylou Harris on "Long Black Veil." He was okay until he started doing that thing where, to mimic emotion, he gets all hoarse and shouty at the same time. Yikes!
I also hate most modern metal and suck-ass emo.
And DMB.
rob
leonaozaki
03-21-2005, 03:51 PM
I agree. It seems like every time I try, though, the response is deafening silence. For better or worse, classic rock and rap are the two genres that enough people here have a common interest in to spark conversation.
(That could probably have been more elegantly phrased. But since it's unlikely that the editors of the Paris Review will ever see this, I'll let it stand.)
So what do you want to talk about?
I think about starting a Professor Longhair/Nworlins music thread but as I believe no one outside of the Big Easy has heard of Fess I think there would be no point.
(Could be wrong. But Fess seems to be a local thing.)
rob
Jonathan Bogart
03-21-2005, 04:13 PM
So what do you want to talk about?
I think about starting a Professor Longhair/Nworlins music thread but as I believe no one outside of the Big Easy has heard of Fess I think there would be no point.
(Could be wrong. But Fess seems to be a local thing.)
I'll participate. I love the New Orleans piano gods. And in that pantheon, Fess is Zeus.
New Orleans is to American music what Florence was to the Renaissance, dude. Those who care, know.
I'd love to talk about the classic Broadway composers. I can't be the only one here who idolizes the Gershwins.
Adam Crocker
03-21-2005, 04:18 PM
I think about starting a Professor Longhair/Nworlins music thread but as I believe no one outside of the Big Easy has heard of Fess I think there would be no point.
(Could be wrong. But Fess seems to be a local thing.)
Well unfortunately all I have heard by Longhair is his rendition of "Junco Partner" however I'm always up for learning more about musicians and music scenes I know little about.
Punchy
03-21-2005, 09:04 PM
Let me add that I saw DMB live way back in 96 or 97. It was a really good show. They performed covers, songs they hadn't recorded, they jammed quit a bit. I really respect when big rock artists do that. If I wanted to hear the songs like they are performed on the CD then I'd stay at home and listen to the CD.
phoenixrising
03-21-2005, 11:28 PM
What I find amusing is that I never heard or hear DMB on the radio outside of "Crash into Me" and some random pop crap from "Everyday" (bad, bad album). The only time I hear their music is when I put in CDs. I really don't know where this "overexposure" comes from.
I'm pretty plugged when it comes to pop culture media and radio play (it used to be my job to be) I would say DMB coverage pales in comparison to coverage of most other bands with far less time and albums under their belts (Dashboard Confessional, Radiohead, Snoop Dogg, Good Charlotte....and so on). And I've never seen them "hailed" unnecessarily by anyone other than fans.
I agree they're an acquired taste (much like Pearl Jam, Springsteen and others with "unconventional voices"), but I hardly think its fair to say they suck.
Jonathan Bogart
03-22-2005, 12:02 AM
I agree they're an acquired taste (much like Pearl Jam, Springsteen and others with "unconventional voices"), but I hardly think its fair to say they suck.
I'd say that Pearl Jam and Springsteen are both deeply conventional, actually. That doesn't make them bad.
They make a good comparison to DMB, though, since they seem to have similar fanbases: fanatical to a degree, not really tied to radio play (though here in Phoenix a few years back, there were four or five Dave Matthews songs in heavy rotation on the radio, before Everyday hit), and insistent that you don't really get the band until you've seen them live. I'm willing to believe that Dave is a master showman, and the band is certainly no worse than similar bands that came along around the same time (Blues Traveler and Phish come to mind) . . . it's just not my thing at all.
elheffe
03-22-2005, 12:23 AM
I agree they're an acquired taste (much like Pearl Jam, Springsteen and others with "unconventional voices"), but I hardly think its fair to say they suck.
I think you're gonna have to ignore the 'intelligentsia' on the board and just enjoy DMB.
Valmore
03-22-2005, 12:56 AM
Eh... I find his music to be rather bland. Not offensive, just bland. Listening to Dave Matthews is like selecting medium-of-the-road vanilla ice cream. It's not bad, but it sure ain't no rocky road, or even French vanilla for that matter.
Adam Crocker
03-22-2005, 05:42 AM
...I would say DMB coverage pales in comparison to coverage of most other bands with far less time and albums under their belts (Dashboard Confessional, Radiohead, Snoop Dogg, Good Charlotte....and so on).
DMB has more albums than Radiohead or Snoop Dogg, but Radiohead formed back in 1989 (DMB formed in 1991) and released their first album in 1993, same year DMB released their debut. Snoop Doog released his debut in the same year as well and started his career in 1992 with Dr. Dre's The Chronic. So Radiohead has a bit more experience than DMB and Snoop just a bit less. (Interestingly Radiohead has more studio albums that DMB though.)
EmmettHULK
03-22-2005, 12:46 PM
I agree with whomever said that their music is simply run-of-the-mill-vanilla...nothing ground-breaking or original but not crap.
Just inoffensive poppy folk.
However, his voice I do find annoying.
DarlingNikki
03-22-2005, 01:05 PM
i don't mind dmb, although i find his tour driver to be offensive in that "i'm gonna drap shit on your head" kinda way.
Dennis K
03-22-2005, 01:19 PM
i don't mind dmb, although i find his tour driver to be offensive in that "i'm gonna drap shit on your head" kinda way.
I suppose that is worse than getting stuffed with a shark.
Adam Crocker
03-22-2005, 01:35 PM
I suppose that is worse than getting stuffed with a shark.
Perhaps, but it wasn't a mud shark (http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/mudshark.asp)...it was a red snapper, and she wasn't stuffed with its bits so much as pleasured by its nose.
Dennis K
03-22-2005, 01:55 PM
Perhaps, but it wasn't a mud shark (http://www.snopes.com/music/artists/mudshark.asp)...it was a red snapper, and she wasn't stuffed with its bits so much as pleasured by its nose.
Oh, well then, that's different. :D :D
phoenixrising
03-23-2005, 12:52 AM
DMB has more albums than Radiohead or Snoop Dogg, but Radiohead formed back in 1989 (DMB formed in 1991) and released their first album in 1993, same year DMB released their debut. Snoop Doog released his debut in the same year as well and started his career in 1992 with Dr. Dre's The Chronic. So Radiohead has a bit more experience than DMB and Snoop just a bit less. (Interestingly Radiohead has more studio albums that DMB though.)
I realize not all all of those listed have less experience/albums/etc. however I think Radiohead and Snoop are ridiculously overexposed. Rolling Stone, MTV and Spin can't stop sucking them off, apparently.
And I consider myself somewhat intelligent about music since I spent a few years reviewing it for a living, so I don't feel right nodding along with this board's "intelligensia". No one has offered a reason for why this particular band shouldn't be respected in some fashion except for "I don't like them." If that were a legit aegument, I would have given horrible reviews to a number of widely recognized bands.
but Radiohead formed back in 1989
1986 actually.
...
1982 if you get technical.
Jonathan Bogart
03-23-2005, 08:31 AM
No one has offered a reason for why this particular band shouldn't be respected in some fashion except for "I don't like them."
Why should anyone respect a band they dislike? Other than that, I have no problem with DMB being respected in whatever fashion they and their fans like. They're talented musicians and have had the great good fortune to connect with very large numbers of people in such a way as to allow them to do pretty much whatever they want. They deserve all the respect they can muster.
Adam Crocker
03-23-2005, 11:59 AM
I realize not all all of those listed have less experience/albums/etc. however I think Radiohead and Snoop are ridiculously overexposed. Rolling Stone, MTV and Spin can't stop sucking them off, apparently.
Alright, though I only brought it up since your point was that DMB gets less exposure than bands with far less albums and time on their hands. I never saw anything about amount of exposure vs. relative worth.
1986 actually.
...
1982 if you get technical.
Hmmm...how so?
Reptisaurus!
03-23-2005, 01:43 PM
And I consider myself somewhat intelligent about music since I spent a few years reviewing it for a living, so I don't feel right nodding along with this board's "intelligensia". No one has offered a reason for why this particular band shouldn't be respected in some fashion except for "I don't like them." If that were a legit aegument, I would have given horrible reviews to a number of widely recognized bands.
I stand by "Dave Mathews is a fakey poser, trying to give the impression of soulful music without any actual emotional connection to the music he makes."
And since my favorite music tries somewhat futilely to contain a completely primal, post-verbal spiritual/emotional response to the world and everything in it... (And, alright, I like the Bloodhound Gang too. Heh Heh. They said "Booby.")
Well, it's not that I think "Dave Mathews sucks" but that I think his existence is fairly insulting to every artist who does pour their heart 'n soul into their art.
And having tracked down a couple of live tracks, Punchy's right. The sax player bites.
Although his drummer (who's name I forget) is even mo' better than I thought he was, and I thought he was great. Bam. BOP. Bam. BOP. Bam. BOP. Perfect.
I think "The Dave Mathew's Drummer's Band, Which Stupid Dave Mathews Can't Join" has a nice ring to it.
Alright, though I only brought it up since your point was that DMB gets less exposure than bands with far less albums and time on their hands. I never saw anything about amount of exposure vs. relative worth.
Hmmm...how so?
On a Friday, with the full lineup, played their first gig in 1986.
Colin, Thom, and ed began playing music together in 1982, i included technical because while Johnny was there, he just sort of hung around and didn't do anything. Played keyboards once in 83 or 84 before he was officialy apart of the band, but if you go by first gig, it was 86.
Maniac Hedgehog demo was out in.....91, i beleive, recorded in 90.
So, depending on what your qualifications for how long they were a band...
elheffe
03-23-2005, 03:37 PM
And I consider myself somewhat intelligent about music since I spent a few years reviewing it for a living, so I don't feel right nodding along with this board's "intelligensia". No one has offered a reason for why this particular band shouldn't be respected in some fashion except for "I don't like them." If that were a legit aegument, I would have given horrible reviews to a number of widely recognized bands.
But isn't doing music reviews and message board posting a little different? Does saying "I don't like 'em" make them bad music posters or bad music reviewers?
I gave DMB a pithy thumbs up. Should I have gone into more detail?
Punchy
03-24-2005, 01:03 AM
Why should anyone respect a band they dislike?
Because often times a musician can make a great contribution to the art form. I think that should be respected no matter what your taste is. I don't really like Bach but I have more respect for him than almost any other musician ever.
And having tracked down a couple of live tracks, Punchy's right. The sax player bites.
Although his drummer (who's name I forget) is even mo' better than I thought he was, and I thought he was great. Bam. BOP. Bam. BOP. Bam. BOP. Perfect.
Carter Beaford. He's a bad mofo. Sounds a LOT like jazz drummer Dennis Chambers.
Because often times a musician can make a great contribution to the art form. I think that should be respected no matter what your taste is. I don't really like Bach but I have more respect for him than almost any other musician ever.
.
And i hate ....
*tries to think of one that actually did something musicly*
Hendrix! Never liked him.
Respect and preferance aren't the same thing.
Carter Beaford. He's a bad mofo. Sounds a LOT like jazz drummer Dennis Chambers.
The best is when you see them live, and his arms never stop moving.
In what seems like circles, because he has so many drums.
(He can't use all those drums)
Jonathan Bogart
03-24-2005, 07:54 AM
Because often times a musician can make a great contribution to the art form. I think that should be respected no matter what your taste is. I don't really like Bach but I have more respect for him than almost any other musician ever.
I tried to weasel in a distinction between "not like" and "dislike." I mean, I don't really like, say, Patsy Cline, but I respect her work very much. But if I actively dislike a person's music (Limp Bizkit is a standard example), then there can be no basis for respect, because I don't think what they're doing is of any value.
But on reflection, that's splitting hairs and I can even think of one or two reasons to respect Limp Bizkit. (Damn it!) So I'll withdraw that comment.
zombie
03-24-2005, 08:35 AM
But on reflection, that's splitting hairs and I can even think of one or two reasons to respect Limp Bizkit. (Damn it!) So I'll withdraw that comment.
Really? I'm interested in hearing what these reasons are.
Punchy
03-24-2005, 09:49 AM
But on reflection, that's splitting hairs and I can even think of one or two reasons to respect Limp Bizkit. (Damn it!) So I'll withdraw that comment.
You can? That's one or two more than I could think up!
You can? That's one or two more than I could think up!
Borlan can play guitar.
....
They got famous covering a george micheal song, thats impressive in a way.
They managed to achieve success dispite sucking balls.
Jonathan Bogart
03-24-2005, 11:38 AM
They managed to achieve success dispite sucking balls.
Bingo. Success is worthy of respect. Not very much respect, and not very good respect.
Also, they could (theoretically) interest their fans in actual music. That would be a good thing.
Also, they could (theoretically) interest their fans in actual music. That would be a good thing.
From what i know of limp bizkit fans, this is not true.
Reptisaurus!
03-24-2005, 11:57 AM
They've definitely got some energy. One of my friends scored free tickets to see them and said they didn't suck live half as much as you might think.
They've definitely got some energy. One of my friends scored free tickets to see them and said they didn't suck live half as much as you might think.
But when you are expecting the most horrible thing ever...
pennywisdom
03-26-2005, 10:49 AM
DMB is, to my ears, just elevator muzak. It sounds like something I'll have to listen to in dentists' offices and department stores for the rest of my life. It simply bores me to tears.
Having said that, however, I still haven't met a college-age girl who doesn't love them. I've faked an interest in DMB more times than I care to admit just to get in the good graces of an attractive young lady. So who am I to call Dave Matthews a poseur?
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