Captain America #4 Spoilers and Discussion

[Jake V]

Well then. Some things come to a head this issue. Lukin is trying to take over Roxxon? He's attacking Cap personally? He's manipulating Crossbones and SHIELD? Does he have something to do with Cap's violent flashbacks?

It's become clear what is happening, but the why and how are still up in the air. It appears as though Nomad is the one who pulled the trigger on the Red Skull, but we know that can't be true.

Meanwhile, Cap is called to investigate some desecrated graves of the 2 former Captain Americas (the ones who took over while Cap was on ice). We're treated to a really cool flashback sequence that explains the other Caps and how they died, and then as Cap leaves the cemetary, he gets attacked by Crossbones.

Now, if you were ever to buy a comic simply for art, the one panel where Crossbones shoots at Cap as his motorcycle flies past him is certainly worth the $2.99. SERIOUSLY, the most badass image I've seen all year.

Cap gets his ass kicked because he gets these flashbacks at really bad times and has no control over them, but Crossbones leaves him alone as they both realize they've been duped by a "Russian"

The "Russian" in question is the Mystery Cyborg Assassin that has been working for Lukin. Sharon Carter finds out the hard way as she discovers Nomad's corpse and gets punched in the head by the cybernetic hand. To be continued...

All in all, more proof that this is the best book marvel puts out, with awesome action and incredible drama. Did I mention how great the art is? Especially that panel with Crossbones? Good lord, its awesome. BUY THIS BOOK.

[StoneGold]

One part superhero, one part techno thriller, one part mystery. Simply brilliant. Oh, and Epting drew a little crossbones belt buckle on Bones this time. Friggin' awesome.

Best part, I've been singing the praises of this at my comic shop, and the owner's been shitting on the book, I think because it was tied into Avengers Disassembled. He had to apologize to me after this issue. He was impressed that Ed knew about the replacement Caps. It won him over.

[Red State Cap]

I agree that the art is freaking awesome -- maybe the best artist EVER in a CA book. Wow!
That said, I found the issue a bit problematic in some ways.
First, I'd like to know if Mr. Brubaker intends Cap's mental problems to be seen as a continuation of Wanda's mind-job in CA&F, or as something completely different? That causes me some confusion.
Second, would Crossbones really be so "honorable" as to pass up a chance to put a bullet in Cap's head, regardless of the circumstance?
Third, why would Crossbones assume that Cap knew, or could contact, the Russian that set Cap up to be offed by Crossbones outside Arlington?
Fourth, I didn't like seeing Cap wimp out in front of Crossbones, but that might be explained in later issues.
Fifth, Sharon got cracked on the head and captured by the Skull's killer. WAIT! That's a good thing! :D
Of course, I will be the first to admit that maybe Mr. Brubaker INTENDS Cap's mental state to be a source of confusion as to whether or not it's related to Wanda's tampering. However, many writers treat events in related titles (i.e. CA&F) as completely UNrelated to the main (i.e. CA) title they're writing. So, it's also quite possible that Mr. Brubaker isn't even considering CA&F relevant to these issues.

RSC

[Smuggletrain]

Second, would Crossbones really be so "honorable" as to pass up a chance to put a bullet in Cap's head, regardless of the circumstance?

I'm not reading honor into his motivation. He saw Cap as pathetic at the time. Looks more like he considered Cap to be beneath him. Basically, not worth killing.

This is the best Cap's been in a long, long time. I hope they can continue the quality level well into the future.

[C.O. Jones]

Great issue.

It was great to see that shot of the Roxxon Building---reminds me of my early days of reading Cap and their quest for the Serpent Crown.

I would think that Cap's liaison at Arlington would be an Army man but it seems that the officer he meets there wears a Navy uniform.

The reason I think the 2 Caps were created was because Cap had comic adventures well into the 50's, yet Avengers #4 has him disappearing near WWII's end and this was Marvel's attempt to fix this. Am I right?

I, too, had problems with Crossbones being an 'honorable' assassin, but that still was a great shot of him coming after Cap while his bike was still flipping!

[C.O. Jones]

Also wondering, with the nods to the 2 other Caps, if elements from the "Truth" series will creep up in the series sometime soon...

[StoneGold]

The reason I think the 2 Caps were created was because Cap had comic adventures well into the 50's, yet Avengers #4 has him disappearing near WWII's end and this was Marvel's attempt to fix this. Am I right?


Close, but not quite. That was a different alternate Cap, who eventually went all bonkers, became the Grand Director and self-immolated. Spirit and Patriot were shoehorned in to continuity by Roy Thomas as a way to explain how Cap was around at the end of WWII, despite being on ice at the time.


And RSC, all the things that you are finding problematic... jeez, that's part of the mystery of the whole thing, along with who the cyborg is, what the Russian is doing at Roxxon, etc. Not good to have all the answers just yet. Makes it more fun during the eventual reveal. Although I tell you, having to wait another month is torture. TOO GOOD!!!

[C.O. Jones]

Thanks, SG. But I thought I remembered reading that when Mace took the SSS it slowly drove him mad; maybe becoming the villain you described?

For that matter, were both men given the SSS? And how close was it to the original, what with Reinstein dying with the original formula and all? (Maybe the reason Mace went insane?) Were any of the post-Bucky sidekicks given the formula?

[Red State Cap]

Let me try again. It's entirely possible that Mr. Brubaker doesn't consider events in CA&F as relevant to his book. Then again, he might. Point is, if one reads CA in light of Wanda's mind-job in CA&F, one might have a perception of events that Mr. Brubaker does not intend. You see my point?
So the question is, does Mr. Brubaker consider events in CA&F as relevant to his CA book?

RSC

[Expletive Deleted]

Thanks, SG. But I thought I remembered reading that when Mace took the SSS it slowly drove him mad; maybe becoming the villain you described?Neither Patriot nor Spirit of '76 were given the serum, and the '50s Cap who went nuts from a knockoff version of the SSS and became the Grand Director was a separate character.

Mace, Naslund, and the future Grand Director were all featured in CAP ANNUAL #7 and Mace died of cancer in CAP #285.

[Ed Brubaker]

I'll basically cut and paste my answer to RSC from another board:

No, this has nothing to do with Wanda or any of that stuff - this book is just this book, and should be able to stand on its own.

We MAY have been too subtle with this (I know we were about some other clues...), but it should be pretty obvious at this point that General Lukin is using the Cosmic Cube to mess with Cap's head a bit. He talks about it on the first page a little as he mentions he's about to call Mr. Cross, tells his friend the cube has just enough energy in it for what he needs to do.

As for Crossbones, I don't know. I don't see him as honorable, but I don't see him enjoying being a tool, or being manipulated, either. He wants revenge for the Skull and this wasn't going to cut it, basically. Plus, I've got big plans for him. BIG PLANS -- and I don't mean killing him.

Cap and Sharon walking into traps -- Cap walks into traps all the time and foils them, it's what he's good at, so he wouldn't care. Sharon is a trained field agent, and should have been more careful, true, but she thought she was looking for Jack Monroe, who as far as she knew, hadn't killed any of the good guys yet.

[Dennis K]

That's great news about having BIG PLANS for Crossbones. Can't wait to see how it all unfolds.

I also have a question for Ed if that's okay. When writing CA, are you working under the assumption that the readers all have a certain level of familiarity with all the characters, or do you feel like you have to "teach" them? Thanks.

[Dial Tone]

As for Crossbones, I don't know. I don't see him as honorable, but I don't see him enjoying being a tool, or being manipulated, either. He wants revenge for the Skull and this wasn't going to cut it, basically. Plus, I've got big plans for him. BIG PLANS -- and I don't mean killing him.


That is AWESOME! Crossbones has always been such a great character, and I'm so glad to see you have plans for him. He has been neglected for too long, and I have no idea why.

Issue #4 was just another fantastic issue! The story has been so gripping, and I can't possibly praise Steve Epting's art enough. He's the best! I loved how Michael Lark's art was used once again. Captain America continues to put out a quality that can't be touched by any other comic on the shelves! Can't wait for more!

[Ed Brubaker]

I also have a question for Ed if that's okay. When writing CA, are you working under the assumption that the readers all have a certain level of familiarity with all the characters, or do you feel like you have to "teach" them? Thanks.

I try to do a little of both, I guess. Because even long-time readers may not remember everything about every character. But often I use a character a few times before filling in the background, because I want people to wonder who they are and what they're up to. Long-time readers can consider that an Easter Egg, I guess. But like with Jack Monroe, I didn't want everyone to know much about him at the end of 3, really (unless they were Nomad fans, I guess) -- other than his name and that he claimed he once worked with Cap. I knew I'd fill-in the rest in 4, and I wanted the mystery until then.

[Red State Cap]

Thanks for clearing that up. I don't think that you're being too subtle with regards to Lukin using the Cube to mess with Cap -- in fact I like that you're being coy with it. Just that I didn't know if you meant your book to be related to CA&F -- since CA&F utilized a very similar theme; that is, "false memories" intruding on reality. You've cleared that up.
The art here was awesome; I'm getting spoiled.
I'm interested to see what your plans are for Crossbones. Lately I've been re-reading a bunch of those old books with Diamondback and Crossbones (basically the Dwyer/Lim era) and darn, those were some great comics! It's hard to see why they got away from that. I'm sure you'll start getting a lot of requests to bring back Diamondback.

Regards,
RSC

[Kevinroc]

I'll basically cut and paste my answer to RSC from another board:

No, this has nothing to do with Wanda or any of that stuff - this book is just this book, and should be able to stand on its own.

We MAY have been too subtle with this (I know we were about some other clues...), but it should be pretty obvious at this point that General Lukin is using the Cosmic Cube to mess with Cap's head a bit. He talks about it on the first page a little as he mentions he's about to call Mr. Cross, tells his friend the cube has just enough energy in it for what he needs to do.


I thought Lukin was messing with Cap's head but it was definitely subtle.

[StoneGold]

Just have to say, I love the little continuity fix about Bucky. The whole thing about Fred Davis being younger than him, I know it was minor, but just brilliant. Not to mention, it places Bucky at around 16 in early '41, which makes him a more acceptable age to go traipsing around Europe with Cap on active duty by '42 or '43. Really, top notch stuff. And the logical, yet somewhat offhand way it was introduced, just good writing.

[UniqueFrequency]

i liked the issue and how things are tying in.. but i didn't care for the other 2 caps, and if i didn't read the posts i wouldn't know they came from the Truth. and even then, i still don't care.

what was the point? desecrating graves makes that big an impact on cap? i dunno.. bit of a stretch.

loved every other bit of the issue though. surprised about the bit with Crossbones, but i can live with it. wanna see a huge fight between them by the time the arc concludes though

also, i'm thinking cap might read better in trades... the way so many players are on the board... but i'll see out this arc before deciding

[Jake V]

i liked the issue and how things are tying in.. but i didn't care for the other 2 caps, and if i didn't read the posts i wouldn't know they came from the Truth. and even then, i still don't care.
Errr... they didn't.

Captain America comics were still published after the war, even in the 50's. I recall seing pictures of covers that said "Captain America... Commie Smasher!"

There was no original story where Cap and Bucky were on the exploding plane, there was no story where Cap fell in the Atlantic ocean and froze. Captain America comics just basically got cancelled due to lack of interest back then. But then, the original Cap stories happened before there was any "marvel universe" to speak of.

What Stan did in Avengers #4 was invent a new story surrounding Cap. Inventing a story where Bucky died and Cap got frozen during WW2 basically invalidated the Cap stories in the 50's, but thats ok because there really wasnt a marvel universe back then.

Even though they really didn't need to, they decided to explain away why there were Captain America comics in the 50's with him fighting the russians by saying that other people filled in the roll. "Golden age" characters like the spirit of 76 were shoehorned into the roll.

I put Golden age in quotes because there really isnt a Marvel golden age in print. There really isnt an existing golden age continuity that you can read. Marvel's "golden age" exists only in flashbacks and what old Timely books they choose to regard as "in continuity."

[Red State Cap]

I think the point of desecrating the graves was not that Lukin though the act would destabilize Cap, but that Lukin knew that Cap would be bound to investigate it. The point was to bring Cap down to investigate the graves, then set him up to be killed by Crossbones outside the cemetary, while using the Cube to mentally attack Cap and make it it impossible to defend himself. As Mr. Brubaker said, the flashbacks are a result of Lukin's Cube attack, not some mental breakdown. No doubt Lukin was highly disappointed that Crossbones didn't finish Cap off.
I'm sure Lukin will continue to use the Cube to screw with Cap's mind. Of course, since Cap and Shield KNOW there is a Cube involved somehow in their investigation, Cap should probably figure out that his mental issues are an attack by the Cube.

RSC

[powerforward]

i have always loved cap (loved it when byrne was handling art, loved the issues that mike zeck did, loved most of gruenwald's stuff), but this is the best its been in along while. hope it stays like this.

loved the spirit of 76 and the patriot, loved the battle with crossbones. loved the art.

my favorite book, great job so far.

[StoneGold]

i liked the issue and how things are tying in.. but i didn't care for the other 2 caps, and if i didn't read the posts i wouldn't know they came from the Truth. and even then, i still don't care.

They didn't come from The Truth. They came from a couple of old Roy THomas What If? stories that were later brought into continuity in a couple of Captain America issues.

And the 50's Cap was a third replacement Cap, a school teacher and Cap fanboy who had plastic surgery to look like Steve Rogers and took a faulty version of the formula. Eventually he became A supervillain and eventually set himself on fire. And his Bucky, which would be Bucky III, became Nomad. Got that?

[UniqueFrequency]

They didn't come from The Truth. They came from a couple of old Roy THomas What If? stories that were later brought into continuity in a couple of Captain America issues.

And the 50's Cap was a third replacement Cap, a school teacher and Cap fanboy who had plastic surgery to look like Steve Rogers and took a faulty version of the formula. Eventually he became A supervillain and eventually set himself on fire. And his Bucky, which would be Bucky III, became Nomad. Got that?

sorry guys my mistake. must've skimmed through the posts too fast...

but still, i'd have to say unless people are really, REALLY into the cap lore, introducing the history of 2 longdead characters in an issue doesn't do much.. (unless there's some major payoff later, in that case i shall end up looking incredibly dumb)

[StoneGold]

sorry guys my mistake. must've skimmed through the posts too fast...

but still, i'd have to say unless people are really, REALLY into the cap lore, introducing the history of 2 longdead characters in an issue doesn't do much.. (unless there's some major payoff later, in that case i shall end up looking incredibly dumb)
I think the payoff is just as much in revisiting the rich history of a character in what quite frankly is a new and interesting setting. I mean, so far, Brubaker has basically done what Kirkman did in his short run, which is bring up what I am assuming are some of his favorite nuggets of Cap history, except has tied them together with more intrigue than you could shake Batroc at.

[Red State Cap]

HEY! Batroc is the shiznit!
I like him better than the other 60 million Frenchmen combined. Well, ouside of Mel Torme, Maurice Chevalier, and Sophie Marceau anyway.

RSC

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

Another solid issue, but strangely, I thought this moved rather slowly. Perhaps my expectations have been raised too high over the past 3 issues. As a long-time fan, I appreciate the little touches like the nod to Spirit of 76 and Patriot. Still disturbed about the death of Nomad (kind of hoping against hope that Jack is not dead and/or the last reminants of "juice" in the Cube will undo his death). But all in all this issue just whetted my appetite for the big finish. Was good to see Crossbones back. I always thought he had more potential than just another Red Skull errand boy. Personally, however, I found the fact he refused to off Cap when he had the chance a little unbelievable. I always thought of Bones as more of a ruthless assassin, not as someone who would really care whether or not the victim fought back.

[Venomous]

I've never been a Cap fan, but I picked up #1 to give it a try and I'm loving it! #4 is the best issue so far

Great work Ed!

[DrDoomX]

Really a great book. Mr brubaker, you did a great job on a great character that has long been in limbo. I cannot wait to see what your big plans for good ol Brock rumlow(aka crossbones). I have a question though...

1) Was there a particular, crossbone story that really made you want to use the character in your run on cap? Being that most of the older crossbone stories come from Grus cap run....was there a favorite or one that influenced you to use this great character?

[Calamas]

It's become clear what is happening, but the why and how are still up in the air. It appears as though Nomad is the one who pulled the trigger on the Red Skull, but we know that can't be true.
Undoubtedly. Brubaker has showed us that much and Marvel gave it to us as fact in the issue recap. Since we saw Jack Monroe die before SHIELD found the gun, Nomad's fingerprints were put on it after his death. Obviously it was meant to manipulate more shield agents out into the open.

Also obvious, the Cosmic Cube being damaged so that all the subterfuge becomes necessary.

My one problem: as soon as the final scene started, I new it would end with Sharon Carter’s capture or death. I ABSOLUTELY hate trained professionals getting knocked unconscious from behind. For years I used to say that only fictional to get knock out more than Ross MacDonald’s Lew Archer was Gerry Conway’s Batman. I hate it; no matter the character, no matter the medium. You might as well subtitle the scene “Plot Necessary Capture.”

[Will.S]

An awesome issue indeed.

Crossbones was always a Cap villain that I liked and seeing him capable during the fight with Cap (even though Cap was messed up) was awesome. Epting and D'Armata are a deadly duo, the art at times looks painted and the Lark flashbacks look seamless.

I love all the sub-plots and happenings going on in the title. It's not just straight up action or a little of villainy it feels like a huge mystery plot and there's tons of nuances and things to pick up on with more readings. The mystery murderer definitely knows how to play his cards right so I can't wait to see who's the face behind all the chaos, Lukin also makes for a really devious string puller...for some reason I didn't connect that he was behind Cap's memory fudging so thanks to Ed for pointing that out.

The other 2 Cap's histories were interesting and informative, I liked that those two characters were briefly filling the role as Cap to keep his legacy alive. Damn good stuff here folks, this relaunch was worth it judging on the quality of work and it's a great thing to see these Avengers characters getting A-list talent and work done to solidify the big three (just one more with Thor!).

10/10 and it's the best Cap I've ever read.

[Kistler]

I forget who, but someone mentioned that the graves of the characters isn't a big deal unless you're VERY steeped into Cap lore. I disagree somewhat. I mean, the replacement caps are fairly well known about I think if you've read Cap regularly at any point. You might not know all the details or even their real names, but you should know they were there. I mean, if you know who Nomad is, you gotta know at least that he started being the partner of a DIFFERENT Cap.

TO CLEAR UP WHERE THEY CAME FROM.

As stated previously, there were Cap stories during the 40s. After WW II, Cap and his contemporaries were featured as a team called the All-Winners Squad. Then they all vanished. Some years later, they tried to revive Captain America. But this time, it was sort of a Revamp. In this new story (that was printed in the 50s), there was a boy named Bucky who went to high school and loved stories about Captain America and Bucky back in WW II. He had a teacher named Steve Rogers. During the comic, the Red Skull (who worked for the communists in this issue) attacked the U.N. Young Bucky and his teacher then revealed to readers that THEY were in fact secretly Captain America and Bucky from WW II and they went and beat the crap out of the Skull. Exactly how this was possible when Bucky was so young was kinda skimmed over (i think it might've implied that this was a new Bucky who coincedentally had the same name, I don't remember). This new version lasted a few issues before getting cancelled.

In the 60s, Stan Lee did a story in which the Human Torch found whom he believed to be the "legendary Captain America" alive and healthy. But the Torch found out this man to be a fraud and was saddened that the real Cap was, he assumed, long gone. Months later, the real Cap was revived in Avengers #4 and Stan retconned a flashback that showed the Cap and Bucky had in fact not made it to the end of WW II. Bucky was killed and Cap frozen. Later on, Cap and Bucky's presence in the 50s was explained as being an unrelated pairing who simply took on the identities to emulate their heroes. Also, it was explained that the communist Red Skull had been a different criminal altogether who'd simply been banking on the Red Skull's rep to itimidate others (since it couldn't have been the REAL Red Skull after Stan Lee revealed that he'd been in suspended animation until around the time Cap came back).

Roy Thomas did a What If story in which a team was formed after WW II called the All-Winners Squad. In the What If story, the former hero called Spirit of '76 was asked to take over for Cap since he was believed dead. Fred Davis became the second Bucky. In the same story, the Spirit of '76 was shown as having been killed some time later and his fellow hero the Patriot took on the identity of Captain America to make sure the legacy lived on.

Later, Capt. America comics decided this was such a damn good story, why not keep it? So that What If story was considered cannon. And they delved further into the story of the 50s Cap. Rather than simply retconning away that he'd been coincidentally named Steve Rogers, they showed hiim as a disturbed man who had done his best to assume Steve's identity after learning he'd been the original Cap. He and his partner (now known as Jack "Bucky" Munroe) fought Cap and lost. A few years later, the evil Cap returned as the Grand Director, killing himself only 5 issues later. Months after that, Jack Munroe came back, soon taking on the name Nomad.

So thanks to Stan Lee, we had to make it that there were at least TWO Captain Americas and TWO Red Skulls. And thanks to Roy Thomas, we had to then make it that there were at least FOUR Caps. This of course doesn't count the later stories of John Walker and that one guy who assumed Cap's identity for a brief time and whose name I always friggin' forget.

[Den]

No, this has nothing to do with Wanda or any of that stuff - this book is just this book, and should be able to stand on its own.

It's standing quite well. For what the opinion of one reader is worth, I have enjoyed the twists and turns that end up unfolding in a consistent manner.


We MAY have been too subtle with this (I know we were about some other clues...), but it should be pretty obvious at this point that General Lukin is using the Cosmic Cube to mess with Cap's head a bit. He talks about it on the first page a little as he mentions he's about to call Mr. Cross, tells his friend the cube has just enough energy in it for what he needs to do.

I suggested this possiblity (Nice to have it confirmed, thanks!) to a friend, and she confessed she hadn't thought of that, but now that I suggested it, "it made sense" . I think even those folks who didn't catch it will be, when all is said and done, going "Of course!"

Which is, in my opinion, a good thing. Most folks I know, even if they don't solve a mystery themselves very quickly, don't mind it as long as the explaination at the end makes sense and all the clues add up. Things like making up the clues retroactively to justify it are what tick readers off. So I wouldn't worry about you "being too subtle". I think you've got the mix down right. It's been a very engaging story line.


As for Crossbones, I don't know. I don't see him as honorable, but I don't see him enjoying being a tool, or being manipulated, either. He wants revenge for the Skull and this wasn't going to cut it, basically. Plus, I've got big plans for him. BIG PLANS -- and I don't mean killing him.

This is good news. Crossbones was always one of my favorite villains, and now that he is his 'own man' I would love to see if he can step in his old boss' shoes and consolidate some of the Skull's old power base... IF that's what he chooses to do. The death of the Red Skull has to have left quite a vacuum in the Marvel Universe (IMO) and someone is going to have to try to fill it. I think Crossbones might be a good canidate to vie with Lukin to do just that.


Cap and Sharon walking into traps -- Cap walks into traps all the time and foils them, it's what he's good at, so he wouldn't care. Sharon is a trained field agent, and should have been more careful, true, but she thought she was looking for Jack Monroe, who as far as she knew, hadn't killed any of the good guys yet.

Still in shock about Jack. I mean, technically (and maybe I'm letting hope blind me) he could still be alive (Maybe it was a tranq of some sort and not a bullet...I doubt it)... but the ambush for Sharon was well laid either way.

I am one satisfied customer.

[Red State Cap]

Crossbones can never really step into the Red Skull's shoes. He has never been ideologically motivated. He's a ruthless street thug who, for reasons not fully explored, has developed an abiding loyalty to the Red Skull. It's part of what makes him an interesting villain.
The dynamic between Cap, Crossbones, and Diamondback was a great one which unfortunately was allowed to stagnate back in the day. This won't be further explored by Mr. Brubaker, but perhaps in time Cap will give Crossbones the crippling beating that he's owed him for a very long time.

RSC

[Forefinger]

I'll basically cut and paste my answer to RSC from another board:

No, this has nothing to do with Wanda or any of that stuff - this book is just this book, and should be able to stand on its own.

We MAY have been too subtle with this (I know we were about some other clues...), but it should be pretty obvious at this point that General Lukin is using the Cosmic Cube to mess with Cap's head a bit. He talks about it on the first page a little as he mentions he's about to call Mr. Cross, tells his friend the cube has just enough energy in it for what he needs to do.

As for Crossbones, I don't know. I don't see him as honorable, but I don't see him enjoying being a tool, or being manipulated, either. He wants revenge for the Skull and this wasn't going to cut it, basically. Plus, I've got big plans for him. BIG PLANS -- and I don't mean killing him.

Cap and Sharon walking into traps -- Cap walks into traps all the time and foils them, it's what he's good at, so he wouldn't care. Sharon is a trained field agent, and should have been more careful, true, but she thought she was looking for Jack Monroe, who as far as she knew, hadn't killed any of the good guys yet.
Awesome that you post here. I loved the fight with Crossbones. He was one of my favorite bad guys in the early 90's Captain America comic. Those were some of the first comics that I started collecting. I'm glad to hear that you have plans to use him to his full extent. I do think that it was in character for Crossbones to leave Cap in disgust. I think that the character suffered in that every time we saw him, he had to be working for the Red Skull, and everyone was sick of seeing RS after awhile.
I know that you are going somewhere great with Cap's memory, but it's been done alot lately. In the last CA series there was a storyline about his memories as well, and then all the dissasembled stuff as well. I guess it could be revealed that the memory stuff was a part of the super soldier program like it was with the Weapon X program.
Thanks for writing a Captain America title that I can collect. For years, CA has been one of my favorite characters, but I haven't been able to stand to stick with any of his titles for the long run due to poor writing.
I'll be collecting Captain America for as long as Ed Brubaker writes it.

[Den]

Crossbones can never really step into the Red Skull's shoes. He has never been ideologically motivated. He's a ruthless street thug who, for reasons not fully explored, has developed an abiding loyalty to the Red Skull. It's part of what makes him an interesting villain.
The dynamic between Cap, Crossbones, and Diamondback was a great one which unfortunately was allowed to stagnate back in the day. This won't be further explored by Mr. Brubaker, but perhaps in time Cap will give Crossbones the crippling beating that he's owed him for a very long time.

RSC


Mmm, perhaps you are right, but if Crossbones could not 'be king' (and I'm still not sure on that), he could certainly be a major player or even 'kingmaker'. I completely agree that he's very interesting, and worthy of further development. He was one of my favorites as well.

[The Shadow]

Thanks again ed for participating here. It's greatto have you interact with us fans and clear stuff up!

I loved the issue. I'm a huge Cap fan and know the history (real and added) very well. When I saw the names on the graves I knew who they were and what they would mean to Cap. GREAT stuff... I'm a believer that continuity should never stop a writer from telling a good story... BUT I LOVE it when a writer USES continuity to their advantage like it was done here. It really adds to the mythology of the characters and is a nod to the past writers that helped contribute to Cap's history.

One issue I don't own is the What if...? issue in question... anyone know what the number of that issue is so I can track it down? Thanks.

Perhaps I missed it... but are the flashbacks REAL events from Caps past or are they "fake" memories added to further knock him off balance (like desecrating the tombstones) are? And will it be revealed (or did I also miss it?) as to HOW other people know who the graves belonged to? I know it was "Top level Brass" as stated in issue #4... but was it hinted at earlier?

[The Shadow]

One issue I don't own is the What if...? issue in question... anyone know what the number of that issue is so I can track it down? Thanks.
Anyone???

Anyone at all??? :confused:

[StoneGold]

Crossbones can never really step into the Red Skull's shoes. He has never been ideologically motivated. He's a ruthless street thug who, for reasons not fully explored, has developed an abiding loyalty to the Red Skull. It's part of what makes him an interesting villain.
The dynamic between Cap, Crossbones, and Diamondback was a great one which unfortunately was allowed to stagnate back in the day. This won't be further explored by Mr. Brubaker, but perhaps in time Cap will give Crossbones the crippling beating that he's owed him for a very long time.

RSC
They were explored, it's just been a long time, and was in a backup issue. Basically, the Skull didn't kill him when he invaded the Skull's fortress, and he gave him a shot. Kind of similiar to the loyalty Atlas has for the Zemos.

[StoneGold]

Anyone???

Anyone at all??? :confused:
Volume 1 #4.

[The Shadow]

Volume 1 #4.
Thanks!!!

Much appreciated!

[RonnieThunderbolts]

I'm really conflicted. I'm enjoying the story so far, and Crossbones has been freaking awesome in this book. But at the same time, I am SO sick of the deaths Marvel seems hell bent on throwing at all of us. Seriously, so much of the time, regardless of the characters and there level of importance are just brought back a few years later. I can't believe, even though this writing and art is top notch, that the whole of these deaths will be undone. That takes away from my enjoyment of the series as a whole.

Nevertheless, this has been well crafted, with some excellent pencils and words sending Cap into the modern day. Brubaker is a master story teller, and his use of continuity and real suspense is very entertaining. I loved issue 4, and I can't wait for the next. I'm a die-hard Cap fan, and this is really good stuff, but I still wish Cap and Falcon would stick around. Mr. Brubaker, I beg of you, please help keep Falcon in the Joe Bennett costume. I read your comments at comicboards saying you'd use him at some point, and his regression to the Johns era costume makes NO sense.

Back to the issue at hand... Crossbones is top notch, and super fun to read in this series, best Crossbones since his first appearances. Long live Brock Rumlow. He is a great foil for Steve.

[Hombre]

Perhaps I missed it... but are the flashbacks REAL events from Caps past or are they "fake" memories added to further knock him off balance (like desecrating the tombstones) are? And will it be revealed (or did I also miss it?) as to HOW other people know who the graves belonged to? I know it was "Top level Brass" as stated in issue #4... but was it hinted at earlier?

I think you may have hit on part of what is making this series click. A number of subplots and mysteries interwoven.

Then, of course, is the psychological depth of the characters, with this issue having given us a great, three dimensional Crossbones, not to mention insight into Cap's feelings as well. These guys everybody forgot about... he's outraged not just because they tried to carry on his legacy, but because he understands the long term implications of what they did, what everybody owes them without knowing it.

I think Brubaker could have been a lot lazier and still reap success. He did not chose to. He's writing a story that is extremely substantial, with flair, but also plenty of good ol' fashioned professionalism.