The Age of Apocalypse

[The Grand Beef]

Oh, by the way, being that I'm talking about AoA, there will be ~SPOILERS~ So beware.

I haven't bought or read a comic book in over a year. But I visited the X-Board last week and saw that there would be a new Age of Apocalypse for the 10th Anniversary.

I LOVE the Age of Apocalypse. And thats all it took to get me back with my X-Men. The other day I picked up The Age of Apocalypse one shot and the AoA 1&2. I really enjoyed them.

But its not the same. For one thing, the Age of Apocalypse doesn't have the same feel without Apocalypse himself. How could it be called the Age of Apocalypse anyway? He's dead! Plus the fact that its not the horrible future world of genocide and death around ever corner, now that the big A is dead, we're in a time of regrowth. I know it sounds kind of morbid, but for me, the whole "feel" of the old AoA books was better because there was that desperation throughout all the mini-series. It seems a lot of that excitement has been lost now.

And, I've never really liked the idea of X-23, much less having her now in AoA too. I mean, we already have a super famous Wolverine in every X-Book there is, do we really need another carbon copy of him? But thats just a personal type thing. I wasn't really to excited to see her in AoA.

I AM interested in seeing what the deal is with the bombs. And I'm very happy to see Sinister again. But I don't know, this series just is missing something that the old one had. I can't quite put my finger on it.

But, in anycase, I still very much enjoyed it, even if it felt different from the old AoA. I'm really looking forward to getting the rest of the series and I'll probably get the TPBs of the old mini series too.

And you never know, perhaps this will get me buying the X-Men again? I don't know, its been such a long time, there'd be sooo much to catch up on...unless I can find some back issues, I'm afraid I'd be very lost. I did happen to see Colossus on the cover of a couple of the issues. This upset me. Colossus is DEAD. It seems that comic book writers just can't respect the reality and finality of death. Ever. That pisses me off quite a bit. But oh well, its always been that way, no use complaining about it.

So what do you think of the new Age of Apocalypse? You like it? Is it up to your expectations? What are you looking for in the series or...what would you like to see?

~The Grand Beef!

[Titan Slade]

Where have you been over the past 3 weeks?

[The Grand Beef]

Three weeks? I've been kind absent from CBR for the past umm...6 months at least. Computer problems/personal stuff. I dropped in every once in awhile, but I think I may stick around here more often now especially now that I'm reading comics again.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but do I know you? Have we met? If not, its a pleasure to meet you :)

~The Grand Beef!

[Titan Slade]

Dude, I am everybody's favorite poster around here :D . And we have had posts discussing the new AOA mini series for the past 3 weeks. And I am the only poster on these boards pimping the new AOA mini.

[DavidQ!]

Shameful shameful shameful still very lacking.

[The Grand Beef]

Well cool, like I said, nice to meet you then :)

And yeah, I figured there'd be some threads about AoA. But looking at the first page, they're mostly threads having to do with a particular issue or particular event or something like that.

I just wanted a nice open general thread to discuss how people feel about the series, new or old, what they'd like to see, what they don't want to see, what they expect, discussion about plots, ect ect ect.

But if nobody wants it, I'm cool with it letting it sink to oblivian :D I guess I'm just excited because I've just recently found out about it. But I guess most everyone here has known about it forever.

But its cool. I'd like there to be some open discussion, but if folks are tired of talking about it, thats fine.

~The Grand Beef!

[MrBiggs7]

Dude, I am everybody's favorite poster around here :D . And we have had posts discussing the new AOA mini series for the past 3 weeks. And I am the only poster on these boards pimping the new AOA mini.

Give people some credit. Ive totally been pimpin' out AOA too. :evilangry :p

[Titan Slade]

Give people some credit. Ive totally been pimpin' out AOA too. :evilangry :p

Yes you have, but nobody respects your opinion :D . My opinion around here however, is the gospel truth :D .

[artemisboy]

So, I buy the Age of Apocolypse #2 and notice that Jean-Paul is now a bald albino with black tattoos on his head. When did THIS happen? In Factor X (which was a part of the Age of Apocolypse) it showed Jean-Paul in a black outfit, normal skin, and long black hair. No tattoos. Am I missing something?

- Peter

[Bishop_Proudstar]

I haven't even read the books, and yet I've a feeling that:

Sinister will give way to Apocalype (or a clone by Dark Beast's minions) as the main villain..

Sinister's "new weapon" will be Maddy, Jean-clone, or a Jean resurrected by The Phoenix Force (later than Jamiaca Bay and similar to Planet X)..

The kicker is that Maddy, Jeanclone, or Phoenix will love Weapon X (like they all loved Cyke in 616.

That's why finding him is more important than anything else for The X-Men..


I'd also loook for The Marauders

[Valmore]

So, I buy the Age of Apocolypse #2 and notice that Jean-Paul is now a bald albino with black tattoos on his head. When did THIS happen? In Factor X (which was a part of the Age of Apocolypse) it showed Jean-Paul in a black outfit, normal skin, and long black hair. No tattoos. Am I missing something?

Besides the fact that Bachalo's artwork sucks? Gads, this artwork is terrible.

And I'm with you, Beef, I hate X-23 with a passion. Just what the world needed - Wolverine with boobies. She wasn't even IN the original AoA, why retcon her in now?

[Bishop_Proudstar]

I'd also look for X-Man to return in some form...

Maybe he sacrifices the rest of his exitence to heal the M'Kraan crystal, kill Apocalypse, or resurrect the real AOA Jean and Cyclops to deal with Sinister's clone or clones..

He could also resurrect the rest of Generation X for Paige..

He or Phoenix could've stopped the bombs..

Apocalypse's spirit may be battling The Phoenix Force within The M'Kraan Crystal..

The heroes and villains may have to set both of them free..

Whatever is going on with Wanda in "The House of M" may tie-in to "sealing" The AoA from The 616. Dark Beast and Sugarman may return home..

[Zero Hunter]

So far I think the mini series has been pretty lame. the art just gets flat out confusing in alot of places. About the only thing I like about it so far is the reunited Guthrie clan.

If your looking for something that feels al little more like the orginal AOA Beef then you need to pick up Exiles 60 and 61. Not only does it have Blink and an alternate version of Morph, but the AOA Sabertooth is now on the team and Holocaust was forced to join by the Timebroker just to mess with the others. Exiles is the best part of the whole AOA 10th aniversery thing.

[The Grand Beef]

That sounds pretty cool Zero, I loved Holocaust (even though I felt he should have been less whiney and more badass).

I thought it was interesting that they introduced some new characters into AoA, like Beak and X-23. I mean, its not a bad thing, but originality is important, espcially in an alternate universe. I think it would be neat to have a new mutant in AoA, then have that same character pop up in the 616. That'd be neato.

And...I usually like Bachelos work, I was excited when I found out he was doing the art. But yea...there are a lot of panel where I just can't figure out what the fuck is going on, especially the part with the Wolverines. Gah! But when you can see whats going on, the pictures are pretty, IMO.

~The Grand Beef!

[Titan Slade]

I haven't even read the books, and yet I've a feeling that:


Man, you sure know a lot about the new AOA mini, for not having read it yet. I'm calling you on some bull sh!+ posts there pal :D .

[Beast]

So far I think the mini series has been pretty lame. the art just gets flat out confusing in alot of places. About the only thing I like about it so far is the reunited Guthrie clan.

If your looking for something that feels al little more like the orginal AOA Beef then you need to pick up Exiles 60 and 61. Not only does it have Blink and an alternate version of Morph, but the AOA Sabertooth is now on the team and Holocaust was forced to join by the Timebroker just to mess with the others. Exiles is the best part of the whole AOA 10th aniversery thing.
Totally agree with you, Zero Hunter. The AOA miniseries has been pretty horrible all around. But the Exiles 2-Parter and the Sabretooth/Wild Child story in the AOA One-Shot were the two best parts out of a pretty horrible event so far. Maybe it's because I like Bedard's writing better than Yoshida's, or because I actually can understand what the hell is going on in Exiles by looking at the art and reading the story. Unlike what's going on in the big 'AOA event' that is happening at the same time. I'm just hoping it gets better, because it's been a big stinkburger so far.

[roguestorm]

i like the new version of x=23 better then the 616 one. i just wish they kept the foot claw.

[jade_nova]

Totally agree with you, Zero Hunter. The AOA miniseries has been pretty horrible all around. But the Exiles 2-Parter and the Sabretooth/Wild Child story in the AOA One-Shot were the two best parts out of a pretty horrible event so far. Maybe it's because I like Bedard's writing better than Yoshida's, or because I actually can understand what the hell is going on in Exiles by looking at the art and reading the story. Unlike what's going on in the big 'AOA event' that is happening at the same time. I'm just hoping it gets better, because it's been a big stinkburger so far.

That is usually the case if the artwork is bad then the story is bad. You need a mix of good artwork and a good story. What happened to the AOA Morph? In the second part of the Exiles story, Gambit mentions that world's Morph.

[cosmicspidey]

What happened to the AOA Morph? In the second part of the Exiles story, Gambit mentions that world's Morph.

Y'know, that's a really good question. I don't remember him dying, and I don't see why he'd leave the X-Men. Maybe he's providing relief in Africa or something and hasn't kept in contact with Magneto.

[Beast]

Or Yoshida believed that AOA Morph and Exiles Morph is the same thing. Hence why there's a mention of AOA Morph in the Exiles mini. Just Bedard dropping a comment that ties up the fact that AOA Morph is missing from the Series. :)

[LoneWolf21]

Actually, the AOA Morph IS dead. He got killed in X-Men:Omega by a laser blast to the back. Dark Beast makes a comment about it as he tries to escape.

[roguestorm]

oooooooooooooooo :eek:

[The Shadow]

X-23... wasn't even IN the original AoA, why retcon her in now?
Isn't the story taking place years after the end of the original? There could be a great deal MORE and NEW characters that weren't in the original that can pop up now.

[Atomic Mongoose]

Isn't the story taking place years after the end of the original? There could be a great deal MORE and NEW characters that weren't in the original that can pop up now.

Like Psylocke, who was apparently too busy getting her breast implants and bimbo-ized, to take part in the original AOA.

[GOT]

I love Bachalo's work! ...attempting to piece together the story...



x-men-newb question: what happened to Wolverine's (Logan) left hand?

[fishtaco]

I love Bachalo's work! ...attempting to piece together the story...



x-men-newb question: what happened to Wolverine's (Logan) left hand?
It was blasted off by Cyclops. In turn, Wolverine cut out Cyclops's left eye.

[fishtaco]

And I'm with you, Beef, I hate X-23 with a passion. Just what the world needed - Wolverine with boobies. She wasn't even IN the original AoA, why retcon her in now?
of course she was there, we just didnt see her. She was being engineered by Sinister.

[KHNH]

of course she was there, we just didnt see her. She was being engineered by Sinister.

Goddamn retcons. If she's not Mariko & Wolvies, I'll just die.

[Thanatos]

I picked up #1 today. I was reluctant at first because I wasn't really feeling the art. It's actually quite good in some parts, but, as what seems to be the general consensus, its does get pretty confusing in spots.
Also, I REALLY dislike the way Wolverine, and Nightcrawler, too, are drawn.
In fact, I guess I really overall don't like it...not soo much the style I usually like.
But it is good enough that I picked it up, and will probably get the rest.
If anything it has peaked my interest in the old AoA storyline.
Which raises a question....what issues of what x-titles were part of the old AoA storyrline? I'd like to check them all out.

[dotdotdot]

you guys don't want to put any work into it. its fantastic art.

[James 'Logan' Howlett]

I just read the first three issues and I'm not impressed. The artwork is terrible. How can they destroy the AoA with this kind of writing? Nothing in the three issues was good in my opinion. The story (or lack of) feels rushed. I also think that some characters (mostly Wolverine) are drawn by monkeys. This combination of poor writing and crappy artwork might stop me at issue three. Forget about the other three, because I don't think they can improve anything.

But the one shot was somewhat decent.

[GOT]

I picked up #1 today. I was reluctant at first because I wasn't really feeling the art. It's actually quite good in some parts, but, as what seems to be the general consensus, its does get pretty confusing in spots.

Chris Bachalo works hard on manipulating the gestalt (the "whole") of each panel and page. He frequently uses VERY complicated and detailed illustrations to convey certain senses and events. Hes quite good at it.

Don't know if anyone has read though his Steampunk title (DC) but in it you can see the technique well... how he uses complicated panels/pages for certain events and story-telling and how he will also use very simple, calm and easy to look upon illustrations to convey other moments. I took me a couple of comics to figure it out... well, it took reading about what exactly he was doing to figure it out.

Now I can follow his work and find it enjoyable. Its such a relief to follow work like Bachalos... he means everything he does and hes good.

[Thanatos]

There's one panel in particular in issue one, near the beginning I think, where wolvie's daughter is jumpin down from a hill or rocky cliff thing or whatever, and I can't for the life of me figure out how her body is positioned...I dunno what end is what, it just looks like a big mess of greenish cloak flying through the air.
I don't like that.

[jade_nova]

Actually, the AOA Morph IS dead. He got killed in X-Men:Omega by a laser blast to the back. Dark Beast makes a comment about it as he tries to escape.

If he is dead then why did Gambit mention him in the new Exiles with regard to beinging brainwashed.

[Zero Hunter]

But it is good enough that I picked it up, and will probably get the rest.
If anything it has peaked my interest in the old AoA storyline.
Which raises a question....what issues of what x-titles were part of the old AoA storyrline? I'd like to check them all out.

That is a tall order but here goes:
X-Men Alpha
Astonishing X-Men (volume I) 1-4
Amazing X-Men 1-4
Xcaliber 1-4
Gambit and the Externals 1-4
X-Man 1-4
Generation Next 1-4
Weapon X 1-4
X-Universe (delt with the nonmutnats of the AOA) 1-2
X-Men Omega

That was the main chunk of the story. The others were storys telling some fo the stuff that happened in the past of the AOA:

X-Men Chronicles 1-2
Tales from the Age of Apocoylpse (two oneshots telling untold tales)
Blink 1-4

They are redoing trades that collect the entire AoA saga in four books that are coming out very soon so you might want to hold off and just get those.

X-Men: The Complete Age of Apocoylpse Epic - Book 1 is supposed to come out in a few weeks.

[Thanatos]

Hey thanks a lot!
I think I'll definitley check out those new books when they come out.

[Sandy Hausler]

I have a question about the Age of Apocolypse. That universe was created when Legion killed Xavier in the past. In essence, it took the place of Marvel 616. Once Xavier was saved, it appeared things sprung back into place and AoA was gone for good. Other than money reasons, why is that no longer the case. I haven't been able to figure that out.

Sandy Hausler

[jade_nova]

I have a question about the Age of Apocolypse. That universe was created when Legion killed Xavier in the past. In essence, it took the place of Marvel 616. Once Xavier was saved, it appeared things sprung back into place and AoA was gone for good. Other than money reasons, why is that no longer the case. I haven't been able to figure that out.

Sandy Hausler

I believe we will find out at the end of the current mini-series. The thing to think about is that this is a what if story of a what if story.

[Alan2099]

Sorry, but without Apocalypse ruling the land with an ironfist and dead bodies lining the streets while robots hunt down all the reamining humans it's just NOT the Age of Apocalypse.

There is no optimistic Age of Apocalypse. From the roginal series, I had the feeling that the world was already is too bad a shape for them to ever save.

[Beast]

I have a question about the Age of Apocolypse. That universe was created when Legion killed Xavier in the past. In essence, it took the place of Marvel 616. Once Xavier was saved, it appeared things sprung back into place and AoA was gone for good. Other than money reasons, why is that no longer the case. I haven't been able to figure that out.

Sandy Hausler
It's likely just like 1602. The altered timeline actually split off and became an alternate reality. :)

[Alan2099]

Still, it's better than the What if? Story they did on the AOA. Weapon X could not on his best day take out Silver Surfer, nor would anybody really have a chance to stop Galactus.

[Sandy Hausler]

It's likely just like 1602. The altered timeline actually split off and became an alternate reality. :)

But why didn't 616 continue to exist until AoA was undone? It's not that big a thing for me, but I'm a little curious about what people think of this.

Sandy

[atoningunifex]

But why didn't 616 continue to exist until AoA was undone? It's not that big a thing for me, but I'm a little curious about what people think of this.

Sandy

616's timeline originally had Xavier forming the X-Men and becoming the universe we've always known.

Then Legion went back in time and changed 616 so that it didn't happen that way.

Then Bishop went back in time and changed it so that it happened the normal way.

The last we saw the Age of Apocalypse was fading out, erased by the destabilization of the MKraan Crystal (or however you spell it). My guess would be that Jean being killed before this happened tapped her into the Phoenix force and she saved the orpahned 616 universe.

Or some other such nonsense.

The Age of Apocalypse mini really makes no sense whatsoever. There's no way that humanit could recover the way it has in a year. Apocalypse was in power oin the Age of Apocalypse for at least a decade in the original series- after 10 years of all that there's no way that humans would have things back exactly the same way things were before Apocalypse.

[cosmicspidey]

That is a tall order but here goes:
X-Men Alpha
Astonishing X-Men (volume I) 1-4
Amazing X-Men 1-4
Xcaliber 1-4
Gambit and the Externals 1-4
X-Man 1-4
Generation Next 1-4
Weapon X 1-4
X-Universe (delt with the nonmutnats of the AOA) 1-2
X-Men Omega

That was the main chunk of the story. The others were storys telling some fo the stuff that happened in the past of the AOA:

X-Men Chronicles 1-2
Tales from the Age of Apocoylpse (two oneshots telling untold tales)
Blink 1-4

They are redoing trades that collect the entire AoA saga in four books that are coming out very soon so you might want to hold off and just get those.

X-Men: The Complete Age of Apocoylpse Epic - Book 1 is supposed to come out in a few weeks.


You forgot Factor X 1-4.

[DarkSoldier]

Like Psylocke, who was apparently too busy getting her breast implants and bimbo-ized, to take part in the original AOA.
She was probably part of the Brain Trust that kept Beast's supply of genetic experiments docile.

[Zero Hunter]

You forgot Factor X 1-4.

Thanks. I knew i was forgetting something. It seems like when ever I try to list all the books involved Factor X always seems to slip my mind for some reason.

:D

[aelio]

Here is my 3 cents about this new AOA:

I was really excited having loved, loved, loved the first AOA, and I am enjoying this new AOA. I like Bachallo and I like Yoshida. Now, having said that, here are my complants.
1. Almost all of the character designs were changed drastically. Wolverine's stub, which should be identical has been altered, Dazzler looks exactly like Emma Frost all the way to her outfit, etc.

2. I concur that there is no way humanity could recover this quickly. However, there seems to be a deus ex machina coming Jean lived that could be used to explain this.

3. It just doesn't "feel" like the same world. The ambience has changed.

Overall, I do have to say that I look forward to each issue of AOA more than I do everything else from Marvel at this time. Now, there are a few things from earlier in this thread that I want to comment on. First, AOA was never a "what if" for those four months, it WAS 616, which is why the other mutant books were not shipping during that time. It was an altered 616, but I believe it was nonetheless 616. There was an actual "What If" AOA though. This being the case, there should be no AOA once 616 was restored even if the bombs were stopped. Unless....the "saving" of the AOA world caused it to become a parallel reality such as has been suggested previously. Anyway, I am enjoying the books, likely just for nostalgia's sake.

[cosmicspidey]

Issue #4 definitely seemed to be the most original AOA-ish issue so far.I really like the explanation for why Husk is back with the other Guthries, and how it fit in with AOA continuity. When I was reading the issue, the debut of the new AOA character (Psylocke) really had me excited, but then I thought why in the hell would AOA Psylocke be Asian?! Why wouldn't she be a blind Englishwoman?

The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Age of Apocalypse 2005 really irked me the wrong way, though. They left so many people out! Where were the Guthries, Northstar & Aurrora, The X-Ternals, Cyclops, Havok, The Eurasian High Council, Iceman, Banshee, Exodus, AOA Morph, The Infinites, Forge, Siryn, Toad, Soaran, Brute, X-Man, the Bedlam Brothers, Chamber, Mondo, Skin, Mystique, Cain, Switchback, Destiny, Damask, Domino, Dead Man Wade, Shadow King, Angel, etc? I think I would have been happy if they'd thrown all the characters from each original title into their own entries (like the Guthries, Bedlam Brothers, Northstar & Aurora under a Factor X entry). There's really no excuse for not including Cyclops and X-Man when they put Mikhail rasputin in it. I'm really mad that they took up 19 pages with Exiles stuff when they could have just as easily been put into the upcoming Teams 2005 book or a Multiverse 2005 handbook. Sure, I love Exiles, but we're never going to have another oppurtunity for bios of Jubilee or Mystique.

One good thing about the handbook, though: a complete listing of AOA titles. We forgot What if...? #77 & 81, X-Man #-1, 53 & 54, X-Man 96 Annual, and Age of Apocalypse: The Chosen.

[thik_3rd]

man this was weak. it took 4 issues to let us know that order has been restored to the world (kinda), paige was left alive and came looking for a fight, bring wolverine back and that jean was still alive.
this series has been bad and boring.

[jade_nova]

The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Age of Apocalypse 2005 really irked me the wrong way, though. They left so many people out! Where were the Guthries, Northstar & Aurrora, The X-Ternals, Cyclops, Havok, The Eurasian High Council, Iceman, Banshee, Exodus, AOA Morph, The Infinites, Forge, Siryn, Toad, Soaran, Brute, X-Man, the Bedlam Brothers, Chamber, Mondo, Skin, Mystique, Cain, Switchback, Destiny, Damask, Domino, Dead Man Wade, Shadow King, Angel, etc? I think I would have been happy if they'd thrown all the characters from each original title into their own entries (like the Guthries, Bedlam Brothers, Northstar & Aurora under a Factor X entry). There's really no excuse for not including Cyclops and X-Man when they put Mikhail rasputin in it. I'm really mad that they took up 19 pages with Exiles stuff when they could have just as easily been put into the upcoming Teams 2005 book or a Multiverse 2005 handbook. Sure, I love Exiles, but we're never going to have another oppurtunity for bios of Jubilee or Mystique.

One good thing about the handbook, though: a complete listing of AOA titles. We forgot What if...? #77 & 81, X-Man #-1, 53 & 54, X-Man 96 Annual, and Age of Apocalypse: The Chosen.

I agree with you about the handbook. They should have just saved the Exiles stuff for their own handbook. I am not complaining too much about no entry for X-Man because they already have one for him in the Book of the Dead handbook. I did like how it was divided up into Apocalypse's group, Magneto's group, and the Exiles. Throughout some of the profiles they mention that Exodus, Iceman, Morph, and Wild Child went on some secret mission possibly after Apocalypse's death. Does anyone know what this mission was?

[fin5]

From what I heard Uncanny X-force is going to revist the Age of Apocalype
So I was thinking of Picking it up in TPB form.Its a no Braner of couse Im going to pick it up
I heard there was a 10th Aniversery of the Age of A how was that?And was that a mini or a one shot and should i pick it up too

[Seresecros]

From what I heard Uncanny X-force is going to revist the Age of Apocalype
So I was thinking of Picking it up in TPB form.Its a no Braner of couse Im going to pick it up
I heard there was a 10th Aniversery of the Age of A how was that?And was that a mini or a one shot and should i pick it up too

From what I've heard, pick up Age of Apocalypse trades 2, 3, and 4. Ignore trade 1, it's not necessary to the storyline. Also ignore the 10th Anniversary trade.

[fin5]

Marvel is Relesing Prelude of Age Of A TPB is that collected in Age of A