Did Gardner Fox Think his Readers Were Morons?

[Typo Lad]

I know that in 1967, most readers of JLA were kids (not that you'd know it from the letters page), but most kids learn how to tell time before they read, right?

So why is it that in JLA v1, #55, we see Hourman take a pill for his "hour of power", then go to" the other side of Earth-Two".

I'm sorry, but how did he get to China in less than an hour?

Most of the silver-age sillyness is just silly, but this actually made me go "now HOLD on," out loud.

Good thing my office door was closed.

[cactusmaac]

That was back when they had real Miraclo, not this watered-down post-Crisis shite.

[Typo Lad]

Nah, he said in dialogue it was only good for an hour.

Which always struck me as dumb. Why not have Martian Manhunter call himself Fireman! Why announce your weakness?

Still, cool name.

Silly and racist... his opponent is named How Chu.

I'm waiting for Rex to say "gesuntite".

[Typo Lad]

I'm waiting for Rex to say "gesuntite".

No, the Thunderbolt did.

Still, I knew the gag would be there!

[Forsaken_One]

Wait. You're complaining about a continuity error from 1967?! o_O

[Typo Lad]

Wait. You're complaining about a continuity error from 1967?! o_O

My geek fu is strong.

Not a continuity error, really.

[Reptisaurus!]

Not a continuity error, really.


It's a writer/editor screw up.

If you pay attention, spontaneous teleportation happens a decent amount, especially in team books where you've got ten or twenty main characters running around. And as much as I love the Fox/Sekowsky JLA (one of my two or three favorite Superhero runs, ever) I don't get the sense that Fox put all that much time into 'em.

Which contributed to the sense of exhubarent energy and wild ideas that I love, but it also meant that there was an occasional logical lapse or two or seventeen. The emphasis seemed t' be on keeping the plot moving rather than explaining everything that happened in Claremontian detail.

In Fox 'n Schwartz' defense (Sounds like a Doctor Seuss Book, sorta) I'm pretty sure that Spontaneous Teleportation happened in Marvel Team-Up (I don't remember the exact instance, but I remember there was a letter about it) at *least* once, I think twice, and the MTU staff only have two writers to keep track of.

So Fox was doin' better than *they* were, at least.

[Typo Lad]

Please. Marvel-Team-Up had someone TOWING THE ISLAND OF MANHATTAN!

Oh yeah, and Fox wins for pure kinetic energy. I now see what people mean when they say Morrison was channeling Fox.

[StoneGold]

Well, these are the books that inspired the Super Friends, the show that would have non-flying heroes fly if it got them in the group shot. Serious, whenever I read old DC books, it's hard not to read the captions without the voice of Ted Knight. "Meanwhile..."

[Reptisaurus!]

Well, these are the books that inspired the Super Friends,


... And every other superhero team book or show post-1960.

(And other than the character overlap, I don't really see it. Fox was obviously using superheroes as an excuse to write science fiction, and the superfriends stories were closer to a reaaaallllly simplified version of the "relevant" Denny 'O Neil books, at least at first.)


Please. Marvel-Team-Up had someone TOWING THE ISLAND OF MANHATTAN!


That's # 28, right? I can *not* find a cheap copy of that book. I'm a huge MTU fan, and this one is almost a classic... In a stupid sort of way. The letter page with the letters on 28 are the *only* time I've ever seen the editors say "Well... Everybody hated that one."

But I get yer point: Bad example.

But I'm pretty sure that this has happened in other team-up books.

And, for what it's worth, I've probably read that issue of Justice League a dozen times since I got the "Crisis on Multiple Earths" trades, and I never noticed the Hourman snafu before.

(Although it's pretty obvious now that I go back and look.)


Oh yeah, and Fox wins for pure kinetic energy. I now see what people mean when they say Morrison was channeling Fox.


Huh. I never thought about that before, but that's a good analogy. Their both sci-fi writers at heart trying to do capes 'n tights, they both barrel their plots along like a freight train with no stopping for character bits (though Fox's stuff is always easy to follow, unlike Morrison's) they both jam their work full of crazy/cool ideas, and neither of them can write character based drama for crap.

[Reptisaurus!]

That was back when they had real Miraclo, not this watered-down post-Crisis shite.

HA!

Back in *my* day the Miraclo would curl the hair on yer toes and make a man outta ya! You'll be lucky if you get 45 minutes out of today's crap!

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

That's # 28, right? I can *not* find a cheap copy of that book. I'm a huge MTU fan, and this one is almost a classic... In a stupid sort of way. The letter page with the letters on 28 are the *only* time I've ever seen the editors say "Well... Everybody hated that one."

It is a classic in its own weird way. It's pretty much the comics version of "Plan 9 from Outer Space." I guess that's why you can't find a cheap copy of it. Everytime I've thought about getting rid of mine, I think I'm either hanging onto it out of nostalgia or I'm embarrassed to admit I own a copy of it in the first place!

EDIT: Here's a review with a pic of the big scene:

http://www.captaincomics.us/archives/sillymoments/sillymoments2.htm

[Reptisaurus!]

EDIT: Here's a review with a pic of the big scene:

http://www.captaincomics.us/archives/sillymoments/sillymoments2.htm

Awesome!

That double page spread they scanned is the best!

Not only is the whole idea completely lucridous, but the artist (Buscema?) has *Major* perspective problems.

Pretty good cover, though.

[Mr. Jixx]

Who says it's a snafu? Hourman(like Aquaman and Power Girl), has seen his power level rise and ebb through the years. Actually, in the '60's, he was pretty formidable. I can also think of a few occasions where Hourman had superspeed. Apparently, this was one of those times. See, no problem. :)

[Phoney Bone]

From what I gather, Johnny Thunder and Thunderbolt were in the story, correct? (If not, then my explanation holds no water)

Johnny: "Say, you could help Hourman out by teleporting him to China."

[Forsaken_One]

I'm still shocked you all are talking about the internal consistancy of a now out of continuity comic that was made almost fourty years ago.

[Typo Lad]

I'm still shocked you all are talking about the internal consistancy of a now out of continuity comic that was made almost fourty years ago.

It was reprinted in a trade recently, so it's fair game.

[Typo Lad]

From what I gather, Johnny Thunder and Thunderbolt were in the story, correct? (If not, then my explanation holds no water)

Johnny: "Say, you could help Hourman out by teleporting him to China."

I have to check, but as I recall, Johnny and the T-Bolt were late for the meeting and hadn't shown up yet. It would have been the easy answer though.

Later in the book, the bad guys manage to beat the crud out of the T-Bolt, which I just chalk up to "plot induced power reduction". Plus, Johnny sent him off but didn't tell him HOW to stop them, so that helps.

[Typo Lad]

That's # 28, right? I can *not* find a cheap copy of that book. I'm a huge MTU fan, and this one is almost a classic... In a stupid sort of way. The letter page with the letters on 28 are the *only* time I've ever seen the editors say "Well... Everybody hated that one."

Letter writers who, as I recall, included Busiek and Duffy. It was pretty cool seeing today's pros rip that story apart. You cna get the same thrill reading Marty Pasko or e. Nelson Bridwell explaining why Gardner Fox's JLA plots arte too convoluted.

I love old comics!

And, for what it's worth, I've probably read that issue of Justice League a dozen times since I got the "Crisis on Multiple Earths" trades, and I never noticed the Hourman snafu before.

(Although it's pretty obvious now that I go back and look.)

See the effort I put into my reading when I'm avoiding work?

Huh. I never thought about that before, but that's a good analogy. Their both sci-fi writers at heart trying to do capes 'n tights, they both barrel their plots along like a freight train with no stopping for character bits (though Fox's stuff is always easy to follow, unlike Morrison's) they both jam their work full of crazy/cool ideas, and neither of them can write character based drama for crap.

HAH!

They also have that whole "Superman/Batman/GL can kick everyone else's arse" vibe going on.

[Sk8maven]

Fox didn't think his readers were morons - he thought they were KIDS. And back in the day he was mostly right.

Kids don't sit down and analyze the plausibility of stories the way adults do. They don't stop and say "Waitaminnnit, how could so-and-so get from point A to point B so fast?" They don't stop and think that having the same villain in five different places at the same time is a lapse of logic. They just go with the "Wow! factor" and think about it later if at all. Sometimes years later, once they've grown up and started to think like adults.

Matter of fact, Fox's stories are written with such abundant energy and enthusiasm - going back to the 1940's, not just the 1960's - that some adult readers don't stop to analyze them until afterwards. (I ought to know! :D )

Maven

[blast_front]

Awesome!

That double page spread they scanned is the best!

Not only is the whole idea completely lucridous, but the artist (Buscema?) has *Major* perspective problems.

Pretty good cover, though.


And as the Marvel No Prize Book one shot pointed out, the Battery is now facing the Bronx. But, hey, it made property values in Harlem skyrocket! *rimshot*

[Shellhead]

I know that in 1967, most readers of JLA were kids (not that you'd know it from the letters page), but most kids learn how to tell time before they read, right?

So why is it that in JLA v1, #55, we see Hourman take a pill for his "hour of power", then go to" the other side of Earth-Two".

I'm sorry, but how did he get to China in less than an hour?

Most of the silver-age sillyness is just silly, but this actually made me go "now HOLD on," out loud.

Good thing my office door was closed.

Have you seen JSA #71 yet? Maybe Hourman has another power that we didn't know about. Here's a quote from the thread on issue #71:

from Kevin Street: "I liked issue #71, because it does all the character subplots so well. The scene where Rick punches Degaton off the time platform is kind of strange, though. You'd think that would be the end of the story right there, but Rick and Rex show up later at JSA headquarters and the game still seems to be on. Did Degaton gain the upper hand somehow, and if he did how did the Hourmen escape? They must have gone all the way from Washington DC to Gotham City without Degaton stopping them."

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=47204&page=3&pp=15

[blast_front]

Maybe they borrowed a cross-panel transition from Byrne's old She Hulk stories?

[Mr. Jixx]

Who says it's a snafu? Hourman(like Aquaman and Power Girl), has seen his power level rise and ebb through the years. Actually, in the '60's, he was pretty formidable. I can also think of a few occasions where Hourman had superspeed. Apparently, this was one of those times. See, no problem. :)


Hey, good point. Thanks for bringing that up.

[blast_front]

In his Sandman Mystery Theatre appearance, Rex Tyler was able to outrun a speeding car, and he was using a early formulation of Miraclo. So, sure, why not?

[Sirpass]

I just laughed too, sad eh?

[The Crime Dentist]

Have you seen JSA #71 yet? Maybe Hourman has another power that we didn't know about. Here's a quote from the thread on issue #71:

from Kevin Street: "I liked issue #71, because it does all the character subplots so well. The scene where Rick punches Degaton off the time platform is kind of strange, though. You'd think that would be the end of the story right there, but Rick and Rex show up later at JSA headquarters and the game still seems to be on. Did Degaton gain the upper hand somehow, and if he did how did the Hourmen escape? They must have gone all the way from Washington DC to Gotham City without Degaton stopping them."

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=47204&page=3&pp=15

I just figured Degaton retreated because he can't handle Rick when he's got "that damned hourglass," and that Rip Hunter, watching the whole thing from outside time, swooped down and dropped them off at JSA headquarters.

[Mr. Jixx]

I guess I don't see the problem. Rick can run really fast, towing his old man with him, and be at the HQ in time for tea. Where, exactly, is the issue?

[barbgrayson]

comic books back them are like fairy tales among others i remember the GA superman pushing the planet earth aside to avoid a meteor shower