Are Hawkman & Aquaman Being Given Short Shrift?

[Dennis K]

In the last year or so I've been getting more and more into the DC titles and it seems to me that these two, especially Aquaman, don't seem to be very important in the scheme of things. Does anybody else think these two characters have been "ignored" (for lack of a better word) by DC?

[Dave Cote]

I agree totally they are my two favorite DC characters .Aquaman being my alltime favorite comic character.I wish they both had higher profiles and were more prominent in the DC universe.

[JoshuaB]

Yes, they deserve a whole lot more than they're given.

[The Adventurer]

But to be fair their individual titles are pretty good right now, which is something you can't say for alot of either's previous incarnations. Do they really need to fall into the "over exposure" trap if their being focused so well?


Don't forget Hawkman's tieing into the Rann/Thanagor War and appears in JSA regularly. Aquaman could do with being a full time JLA member again. Actualy, wouldn't it be kind of cool to have him join another team? Maybe the JSA, or the Outsiders.

[Brian Thomer]

Hawkman will be playing his part in Rann/Thanagar War and its been said that the Aquaman title will factor into DC's big plans for 2005, so begin to look for increased exposure for both these titles which will hopefully result in higher sales for both.

[spike1205]

and hawkman played a semi-prominent role in ID crisis, appeared in the last manhunter and has an ok selling solo title

[Zero Hunter]

I think both books could definetly benifit from having more "big name" creators on the books. Hawkman was doing great under Johns/Rags but then DC dropped the ball by not getting someone with just as big a name to replace them to keep the titles momentum (thats and the new team changed the style of the book so much is was kinda a jarring shock and lost the book alot of readers).

Aquaman has just been in trouble since this latest series started. The water hadn and the return to the superfriends costume tunred alot of readers off right from the get go. It showed some promise when the Sub Dieago storyline started but that has gotten pretty stale fast. I think it could definetly benafit from going back towards a more Peter David badass of the sea style Aquaman. Hell even the cartoon creators relized that version was alot more interesting than the current one.

[Captain Jim]

the return to the superfriends costume tunred alot of readers off right from the get go.

I don't think it's fair to call that a "superfriends" costume anymore than superman or wonder woman's costumes are "superfriends" costumes. It is the classic costume that goes clear back to his origins in the 1940's, up until just a few years ago.

And despite my respect for PAD, his concept of Aquaman was a big mistake IMO. Especially the hair and beard. No swimmer would have hair and a beard like that.

[protege]

All right- so what would you do with Aquaman?

[Forsaken_One]

I can't speak for Hawkman (I don't read it) but in Aquaman I think it suffers a lot from the fact that it's all underwater. Because of that it's like the space run of Kyle's Green Lantern series; disconnected from the rest of the DCU who can't go where the main character is. I mean, you won't find Batman idly stopping by either space or underwater to carry on a conversation, nor will you find most heros of the DCU. Because of that his title seems isolated in comparison to the other DCU titles that can easily have cameos or guest shots.

Maybe Lorena joining the Teen Titans at some point will change that, but somehow I think Aquaman, so long as he's primarily an underwater hero, will remain mostly apart from the DCU.

[Captain Jim]

Good point, I don't think Aquaman would be an easy book to write. I wouldn't mind seeing Geoff Johns take a shot at it sometime. He seems to have a way with characters who have gotten off track.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I think Aquaman and Hawkman have been given several chances by DC and the characters have failed to bring in readers every time. It's time to admit that, as great as they may be on occasion, they simply aren't popular enough to support an ongoing series for any sustained ammount of time.

There's nothing wrong with this, it just means that these characters are better suited to mini-series and team books. Not every superhero has to be the star quarterback, some actually work better as supporting players--J'Onn J'Onzz leaps immediately to mind.

[Brian Thomer]

I can't speak for Hawkman (I don't read it) but in Aquaman I think it suffers a lot from the fact that it's all underwater. Because of that it's like the space run of Kyle's Green Lantern series; disconnected from the rest of the DCU who can't go where the main character is. I mean, you won't find Batman idly stopping by either space or underwater to carry on a conversation, nor will you find most heros of the DCU. Because of that his title seems isolated in comparison to the other DCU titles that can easily have cameos or guest shots.

Maybe Lorena joining the Teen Titans at some point will change that, but somehow I think Aquaman, so long as he's primarily an underwater hero, will remain mostly apart from the DCU.

Except we've seen Martian Manhunter, Batman and the Sea Devils since Sub Diego began along with cameos by Dr. Fate, Superman and Alan Scott.

[Mia]

I just started picking up Hawkman (issue 34) and I have to say that I like the way that Palmiotti writes him. I bought the second trade by Johns and Robinson, and while it's serviceable. I find that Hawkman has more of a prescence and an edge with Palmiotti. He's more of a hero that I would like to be reading. Very dark, masculine and intelligent.

The only reason I picked it up was due to Bennett's artwork, otherwise I would have missed out on this treasure. Really very nice. I really think that DC should be pushing this book.

[NickVinson]

I just started picking up Hawkman (issue 34) and I have to say that I like the way that Palmiotti writes him. I bought the second trade by Johns and Robinson, and while it's serviceable. I find that Hawkman has more of a prescence and an edge with Palmiotti. He's more of a hero that I would like to be reading. Very dark, masculine and intelligent.


Im with you 100%. The Johns/Robinson stuff was a nice re-intro to the character, but the Palmiotti/Gray run has that nice bite to it. Their run so far has yet to ring out a clunker. Its probably my favorite DCU title out now.

And I work in a Comic Shop and get to read alot of stuff.

[Mia]

Thank you. It's nice to know I'm in good company. I think I'll enjoy this book. Hawkman is the type of male superhero I love and is all too rare in books these days. I just hope that Bennett will be able to stay on. He will be on BoP as well, and I hope that he won't be too overwhelmed so that he has to drop one of the books. Personally I would rather him be on Hawkman.

[drwho5]

I like both Aquaman and Hawkman and I think both books have alot going for them. I agree that the last few issues of Aquaman have been a little so-so, but I think things will pick up when we find out a little more about the shadow organization behind the Sub-Diego situation.

Third tier characters are my favorites and I usually follow them when they get their own monthly titles. I have never been able to understand why these books fail to have staying power. To me they are just as good as Batman, JLA, or any of the other big selling titles.

I do think that alot of readers make the mistake of following creators instead of characters. While I love Geoff Johns writing style, I'm not going to drop a book just because he left. I follow characters and unless a creator just ruins the character (i.e. Peter David's take on Aquaman) I'll usually stay for the long haul.

[Mon-el]

I do think that alot of readers make the mistake of following creators instead of characters. While I love Geoff Johns writing style, I'm not going to drop a book just because he left. I follow characters and unless a creator just ruins the character (i.e. Peter David's take on Aquaman) I'll usually stay for the long haul.

I agree completely what you said DrWho5 and I am glad you said it. I think thats the single biggest problem with comics today is that people follow creative teams rather than characters. My own theories about this is that with the price of coimcs rising, that people do not want to be let down or disappointed when they buy a comic, and I can hardly blame anyone for that reason if they cannot afford it. They already know they like the way this person will tell the story or they way someone draws it.

I do not think every comic is great, but I will for the most part find something that I like in just about any coimc. I think this trend started around the late 80's and early 90's and hasn't stopped. Naming Creators and Creative Teams is something we all realize in the early ages of coimc reading, I find that pretty elementary stuff. I have never in the 26 years of reading comics ever followed a Creative Team. I try out new characters all the time as well which is another thing that I do not see happen alot (again this may deal with price). I think thats one of joys/adventures in coimcs is finding new characters to read about.

I also like Geoff Johns writing alot and countless others, and like DrWho5 said I am not going to cancel or give up on a character because he/they left. I like Hawkman and Aquaman and for the most part I rather read about these characters than some of the other Bat/Superman/Spider-man/X-men books because that is the only shot I get to read about these characters.

[Captain Jim]

Wow, are we different! I'm not sure I ever followed a character blindly, irregardless of how good (or bad) the stories were. No offense, but this strikes me as a little bizarre. I realize that more fans probably follow artists than writers, but I have always been the other way around. I follow writers. In my opinion, any character has the potential of being incredibly interesting or incredibly boring, depending on how they're handled. Of course, the best of all worlds is when a favorite writer, favorite artist, and favorite character all come together. :)

[Forsaken_One]

I gotta agree with our good Captain here. If I buy novels I follow authors; even in shared universes I don't just buy ever Forgotten Realms or Star Wars novel out there, I look at reviews, sample a few, decide to take the plunge on one, and if it's good continue reading that author. I also follow directors on movies, not just characters, since they tend to be a good indication of the quality of a movie. Hell, if I can I follow writers on television shows too, though that'd damn hard in today's television enviornment. I don't see why I should follow characters in comics when I don't do it anywhere else.

[Dennis K]

Wow, are we different! I'm not sure I ever followed a character blindly, irregardless of how good (or bad) the stories were. No offense, but this strikes me as a little bizarre. I realize that more fans probably follow artists than writers, but I have always been the other way around. I follow writers. In my opinion, any character has the potential of being incredibly interesting or incredibly boring, depending on how they're handled. Of course, the best of all worlds is when a favorite writer, favorite artist, and favorite character all come together. :)


I agree. A good writer can elevate any character through the strength or their story telling ability.

[Dave Cote]

I don't think its that weird .There are certain characters I will follow no matter what Aquaman being one of them.I started buying comics when nobody really cared who the creators were they just liked the characters or the stories I'm still that way.

[Suzanne]

I'm that way too, Dave. I follow characters more than anything. When Geoff and Rags left Hawkman, I was upset, but I liked the characters enough that I stayed with the book when the new creative team took over. Except for JSA, I don't read Geoff's other titles. As for Rags, as much as I like his work, if he became a regular on Superman or Batman, that wouldn't be enough to get me buying them. I'm just not drawn to either of them.
I gotta agree with our good Captain here. If I buy novels I follow authors; even in shared universes I don't just buy ever Forgotten Realms or Star Wars novel out there, I look at reviews, sample a few, decide to take the plunge on one, and if it's good continue reading that author. I also follow directors on movies, not just characters, since they tend to be a good indication of the quality of a movie. Hell, if I can I follow writers on television shows too, though that'd damn hard in today's television enviornment. I don't see why I should follow characters in comics when I don't do it anywhere else.I get what you mean (I do the same with novelists and directors), but with comics, it's the characters that are the main attraction; I think it's what draws readers to buy their first comics. Noticing the creative teams (as least for me) comes later down the line.

[Forsaken_One]

I get what you mean (I do the same with novelists and directors), but with comics, it's the characters that are the main attraction; I think it's what draws readers to buy their first comics. Noticing the creative teams (as least for me) comes later down the line.
Well yes, the characters are what draw peoplel in initially. And I bought my first few comic books for three reasons: A) I liked the character from a cartoon or movie I'd seen. B) I liked the cover picture. C) They had a low number on them. But then again when I bought my first comic I was something along the lines of ten years old.

And even accepting that this is something that carries over into the teenage and adult years, well, I initially pick up some novels because the cover looks pretty too. But I don't continue buying them if they're badly written. I'll grab a book from a used bookstore for cheap if the blurb in the back has an interesting situation that I tend to enjoy, like the standard coming-of-age story set in a fantasy or science fiction background. But if it's bad I won't continue that series. And even if it's good the moment it goes downhill... I drop it. Robert Asprin's Phule books are a great example of this; the first two, Phule's Company and Phule's Paradise, were wonderful books. But after that... they're crap. So I don't buy them. I love the characters and would love to read more of them but I will not subject myself to bad writing.

It's the same way with comics. I'll follow writers. After a writer I like switches and the series goes on I'll generally give two to three comics for the new team to catch my interest. And if that doesn't happen, well, there's no way I'm going to suffer through bad writing and/or bad art just because I like the character.