Guess it's up to me... Thunderbolts #6 (SPOILERS)

[protege]

Out of all the books that came out this week, this was the only one i enjoyed.
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Okay- don't have too much to say, just wanted to get the ball rolling. Abe's "Collusion" with von strucker is revealed, to Atlas and songbird, at least- don't know if the others know about it, though, including carol. Speed demon's tie to the team is also revealed, but i'm not exactly sure how Abe knew about it. It'll be interesting to see how and if He and abe can work together again after this- unless he's the one who leaves next issue- (temporarily, i hope.) SD just took a quantum leap up in my book. Speaking of Quantum, I'm not sure why Genis just up and changed his name-
The new warriors cameo was good, but when (and why) did Justice and Firestar rejoin the team? The Avengers are ..different, but still-
other than that, while the reveal about joystick was-interesting, i'm still not really warming up to her place on the team. She only seems to be in it for the thrills, or whenever Abe can goad her into something, so I'm not sure she's really cut out to be hero material. and i'm starting to wonder if abe is going to be in her sights, before long. Radioactive man continues to impress me, but blizzard's attitude is starting to wear a bit thin with me.
Next?

[riotgear]

This is the first revelation of Justice and Firestar joining the team, but they fit better there.

Now if we can just get a Fabian-written New Warriors book...

[FabianNicieza]

[QUOTE=protege]Out of all the books that came out this week, this was the only one i enjoyed.
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The new warriors cameo was good, but when (and why) did Justice and Firestar rejoin the team?

There are no Avengers, and they were relegated to reserve status, so why wouldn't they hang out with their friends and join in during a big crisis.
The Warriors weren't any kind of "official" team, they were always more of a club of like-minded young people. As much a group of friends as a superhero group.

>The Avengers are ..different, but still-

The Avengers weren't in this issue. The entire first year of NTB takes place BEFORE New Avengers #1.
Various Marvel characters including Cap, Spidey and Swordsman were seen fighting Hydra fodder in Manhattan, as you should expect during such a full-scale battle.


> other than that, while the reveal about joystick was-interesting, i'm still not really warming up to her place on the team. She only seems to be in it for the thrills, or whenever Abe can goad her into something, so I'm not sure she's really cut out to be hero material.

Uhm... that's kind of the point.

> but blizzard's attitude is starting to wear a bit thin with me.

Yeah, I agree, too. So think how the other characters are going to feel soon...


-- fabian

[Phrozen]

I see Joystick as the Fixer of the team. Not really in it for the heroics but more for the challenge.

[cosmicspidey]

Absolutely fantastic issue. A great way to round out the first arc while planting seeds for the next one (inevitable Photon/Atlas showdown, Speed Demon's mole-ish-ness, Purple Man's fascination, Abe/Strucker relationship revealed to team). I'm also really enjoying Radioactive Man for some reason. He's probably my favorite new member of the team. I'm really hoping it's not him that quits next issue.

[Kevinroc]

Not wild about Genis calling himself "Photon".

[Archyduke]

Yeah, I agree, too. So think how the other characters are going to feel soon...

Uh-oh. I hope this isn't a hint that Gill will be the one leaving next issue; I'm pretty fond of the guy, and every team needs a resident square.

Great issue overall; Radioactive Man continues to be my unlikely favorite on the roster, and his absorbtion of the first bomb was a dandy application of his powers. Genis' in-the-nick-of-time return was a little bit deus ex machina, but nothing I can't live with. I'm wondering if Erik's blurting out about Abe's comm-link with Strucker within Earshot of Carol Danvers will have any long-term repercussions, a la the Meteorite/Moonstone slip early in the first Thunderbolts run.

[Astonishing X-Fan]

Loved the issue, loved the book.

And Photon is a lot better than Captain Marvel, IMO...always thought that was an extremely corny name.

[protege]

Not wild about Genis calling himself "Photon".
I hope we'll get to see how Monica Rambeau feels about it.

[Titan Slade]

Not wild about Genis calling himself "Photon".

Nobody else was currently being see using the name Photon in a Marvel comic book, so Genis may as well use it :D .

[mastaflan]

I hope we'll get to see how Monica Rambeau feels about it.


You mean the new Captain Marvel heheheheehehh

[thik_3rd]

I'm also really enjoying Radioactive Man for some reason. He's probably my favorite new member of the team. I'm really hoping it's not him that quits next issue.
same here, but i have a sneaking suspicion that hes out when 7 drops.

[Dermie]

I'm also really enjoying Radioactive Man for some reason. He's probably my favorite new member of the team. I'm really hoping it's not him that quits next issue.

It won't be. My guess is that it will be Songbird. She didn't want to rejoin in the first place. She is currently too injured to fight anyway. And the revelation that Abe turned to Hydra for funding has done more damage to her trust in him, and she already was having trust issues with Atlas and all of the newbies. Put it all together, and it seems quite likely that she'll be the one leaving.

[The Wayner]

My guess is Songbird, too.

Absolutely loved the issue! Just keeps getting better, imho. And I'll add that Radioactive Man is one of my faves, as is Joystick (mmm---tight butt :D ).

[XPac]

Nobody else was currently being see using the name Photon in a Marvel comic book, so Genis may as well use it :D .

Still, how many times does Genis need to steal Monica's name?

I'd suggest Monica just go by her real name from now on to avoid any problems, but knowing Genis he'll probably start calling himself Monica after that.

[Lavteria]

Great Issue, this is how comics should be. No standing around and talking. The talking should occur during the action

I hope songbird does not leave though, or Blizzard I really want to see Blizzard turn around and become very heroic and more confident.

I hope there is a good reason Captain Marvel is now photon....stop stealing names :mad:

[Anthony]

Still, how many times does Genis need to steal Monica's name?

I'd suggest Monica just go by her real name from now on to avoid any problems, but knowing Genis he'll probably start calling himself Monica after that.

Monica needs to beat Genis down somehow and make him keep one name.

[StoneGold]

And that's why I'm glad that Fabian changed Genis' name again. It makes message boards a funnier place.

[Neolucifer]

at leas tell us what will monica do now about her name!!!

[PaxHouse]

[QUOTE=protege]Out of all the books that came out this week, this was the only one i enjoyed.
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There are no Avengers, and they were relegated to reserve status, so why wouldn't they hang out with their friends and join in during a big crisis.
The Warriors weren't any kind of "official" team, they were always more of a club of like-minded young people. As much a group of friends as a superhero group.

>The Avengers are ..different, but still-

The Avengers weren't in this issue. The entire first year of NTB takes place BEFORE New Avengers #1.
Various Marvel characters including Cap, Spidey and Swordsman were seen fighting Hydra fodder in Manhattan, as you should expect during such a full-scale battle.

-- fabian

Oh, yes......And a big Thank you for not only added the NW, but also including Power Pack... :D

Now, if only Marvel would let you back on the Warriors' again... :eek: :(


PaxHouse.

[mastaflan]

Speed Demon is the ish!!! I even like Blizzard too... I love watching this character grow. Hopefully he starts thinking for himself and taking initiative.

I love that this issue was action packed. I can not get enough of this stuff.

Fabian Bring Back Blackwing!!!!

[UniqueFrequency]

i didn't like the way abe and speed demon were portrayed.

abe using threats on joystick and on speed demon? everyone knows he isn't really gonna follow through on them.. to me it comes across as weak

speed demon first is a spy for hyrda. then he shows no interest in helping and has to be threatened by abe to go after the bombs and then? feels self sacrificial and wants to run as far as he can with the bomb in his hand and get blown up? i don't think so.

i really like that we see the inner workings of radioactive man and joystick's mind though.

can't wait for the Atlas-Genis fallout.

and what's up with the name Photon?!?!

[Dermie]

i didn't like the way abe and speed demon were portrayed.

abe using threats on joystick and on speed demon? everyone knows he isn't really gonna follow through on them.. to me it comes across as weak

Actually, I believe Abe would follow through on them...at least the one with Speed Demon. Keep in mind that he is a former villain, and has been a murderer, and was willing to cut deals with a terrorist group for funding--this is not the typical good guy who is always gonna play by the rules.

speed demon first is a spy for hyrda. then he shows no interest in helping and has to be threatened by abe to go after the bombs and then? feels self sacrificial and wants to run as far as he can with the bomb in his hand and get blown up? i don't think so.

He was struggling with his sense of self-preservation, and his desire to be a hero. He never showed "no interest in helping"--he was helping against Hydra all issue long. It was just the nukes that freaked him out and made him want to run...but when it came down to the crunch, his conscience won out and he tried to do the right thing.

[UniqueFrequency]

Actually, I believe Abe would follow through on them...at least the one with Speed Demon. Keep in mind that he is a former villain, and has been a murderer, and was willing to cut deals with a terrorist group for funding--this is not the typical good guy who is always gonna play by the rules.

He was struggling with his sense of self-preservation, and his desire to be a hero. He never showed "no interest in helping"--he was helping against Hydra all issue long. It was just the nukes that freaked him out and made him want to run...but when it came down to the crunch, his conscience won out and he tried to do the right thing.

we're talking about abe who voluntarily went to prison in the first volume of t-bolts. i doubt someone who did that, would go through with a threat and be a murderer all over again

yes of course it's easy to believe that with speed demon. (and in fact, that's probably what we're meant to believe), i'm just saying it's too convenient. he's been the fairly flippant one in the first few issues, and suddenly he goes all self-sacrificial? i'm finding that a little hard to swallow.

[Karl J. Barnes]

It won't be. My guess is that it will be Songbird. She didn't want to rejoin in the first place. She is currently too injured to fight anyway. And the revelation that Abe turned to Hydra for funding has done more damage to her trust in him, and she already was having trust issues with Atlas and all of the newbies. Put it all together, and it seems quite likely that she'll be the one leaving.

Maybe she'll be the secret hero to join the New Avengers?

[Dermie]

we're talking about abe who voluntarily went to prison in the first volume of t-bolts. i doubt someone who did that, would go through with a threat and be a murderer all over again

Considering he never threatened to kill anyone, I don't see the problem. He threatened to cripple Speed Demon, and to let the Hydra agents know where Joystick was. He didn't threaten to kill either one of them.

yes of course it's easy to believe that with speed demon. (and in fact, that's probably what we're meant to believe), i'm just saying it's too convenient. he's been the fairly flippant one in the first few issues, and suddenly he goes all self-sacrificial? i'm finding that a little hard to swallow.

It wasn't all that sudden--over the past few issues we've seen this struggle growing in him.

[protege]

Considering he never threatened to kill anyone, I don't see the problem. He threatened to cripple Speed Demon, and to let the Hydra agents know where Joystick was. He didn't threaten to kill either one of them.



It wasn't all that sudden--over the past few issues we've seen this struggle growing in him.
So- you're saying he does his best struggling at a strip club?

[StoneGold]

Hey, if Fabian's still reading this, quick question: how much of New York City did you just nuke? I realize RM abosorbed the radiation, but the destructive blast still had to be pretty nasty, didn't it?

[pureclint]

So- you're saying he does his best struggling at a strip club?


Did you even read that issue?

He was there but he was also sneaking out to help the T bolts, and if I remember the dialogue correctly he was pushing to go the whole time, it was Joystick who was making him wait it out.

[Dermie]

Did you even read that issue?

He was there but he was also sneaking out to help the T bolts, and if I remember the dialogue correctly he was pushing to go the whole time, it was Joystick who was making him wait it out.

It was Blizzard who was pushing to go the whole time, and Speed Demon told him to settle down--meanwhile, he kept sneaking away to help. Speed Demon apparently did want to go openly sooner, but Joystick asked him to wait until she was half-drunk first.

[protege]

Did you even read that issue?

He was there but he was also sneaking out to help the T bolts, and if I remember the dialogue correctly he was pushing to go the whole time, it was Joystick who was making him wait it out.
Forget i said anything. sheesh.

[pureclint]

It was Blizzard who was pushing to go the whole time, and Speed Demon told him to settle down--meanwhile, he kept sneaking away to help. Speed Demon apparently did want to go openly sooner, but Joystick asked him to wait until she was half-drunk first.


Right, Blizzard was openly questioning if the should have gone. Speed Demon actually went, but on the down low. Yet he fell for the hot T and A and did not openly push to go because of it.

[ghachey]

Still, how many times does Genis need to steal Monica's name?

I'd suggest Monica just go by her real name from now on to avoid any problems, but knowing Genis he'll probably start calling himself Monica after that.
:D hahahaha lol

[protege]

Still, how many times does Genis need to steal Monica's name?

I'd suggest Monica just go by her real name from now on to avoid any problems, but knowing Genis he'll probably start calling himself Monica after that.
Oh, i dunno- "Rambeau" has a certain ring to it...

[Will.S]

Genis taking Photon's name did annoy me, I don't know what's up with Marvel and the passing around of the Captain Marvel name. Perhaps the "Captain Marvel" title has to have a title in print in order for Marvel to use it regularly?

Anyway, I highly enjoyed the issue. I never would have thought that the T-Bolts could handle a Hydra invasion and a Atlantean one both one after the other. It definitely shows the power of the group and their adaptation to certain situations. Now with Genis as *cough* Photon joining them it's a fairly large group but with someone quitting next issue hopefully someone will fill in for them.

For me I think it's Erik since Genis will maybe remember Erik's fit of rage and Atlas will go back to control his anger or just quit for a while until his ionic energies stabilize/he can control them.

I loved the Speed Demon/Blizzard stuff...a great pair those two. Radioactive Man and Joystick were awesome as well, I think Abe would have done much better with his Mach IV armor which goes to show the Beetle armor isn't as versatile or as quick despite how cool it looks on him.

Artwork was top notch, s to be expected by the solid Grummet and Erskine, 8/10

[Paradox]

Heh, I'm sure the Photon bit is going to become a running gag in this book.

Anyone but me find Genis a bit...aloof? Like he didn't remember any of these folks?

Maybe it's not really him...

[Brian Cronin]

It's the Phoenix-entity!!!

I liked Swordsman fighting side by side. It must have been weird fighting against his own father's invasion (;)).

-Brian

[Paradox]

Brian Cronin makes another connection:

It's the Phoenix-entity!!!

Nah...the Phoenix is Zemo. ;)

[Brian Cronin]

Oooooh....good point!

-Brian

[Karl J. Barnes]

Heh, I'm sure the Photon bit is going to become a running gag in this book.

Anyone but me find Genis a bit...aloof? Like he didn't remember any of these folks?

Maybe it's not really him...


Let the Clone Saga Mark II BEGIN!!!!!!!!!!!

[Doug W]

Is anyone else curious about the information revealed on Joystick in this issue?
Specificly and I quote- "Her previous life had been safe- a bore- and she still ended up getting killed."
What? Is Joystick the undead? is this in reffrence to something that already happened in her very limited known history, or do we have another mystery on our hands?

[MatthewC]

Is it just me, or was Strucker's plan not entirely sane?

Let's see if I understand it. He's funding the Thunderbolts so that a superhero team will be around to fight him when he tries to destroy New York. Only, he doesn't actually want the team to win, he just wants them to put up a good enough fight so that... so that the Hydra rank-and-file will be really impressed with him when he defeats the opposition, thuse cementing his leadership.

Only, he doesn't seem to be trying particularly hard to keep it from the Hydra rank-and-file that he was the one funding the Thunderbolts in the first place. So that would seem to undercut his efforts to impress them.

And why was he trying to destroy New York in the first place? Just because? But if he had nuclear bombs planted through-out the city, why bother with the giant airships? Why not just detonate the bombs straight-off?

(pulls hair) It makes no sense!

[Michael P]

Is it just me, or was Strucker's plan not entirely sane?

It's not just you, but then again, Strucker himself is not entirely sane.

[Dermie]

Heh, I'm sure the Photon bit is going to become a running gag in this book.

Anyone but me find Genis a bit...aloof? Like he didn't remember any of these folks?

Maybe it's not really him...

Not really...he showed up at the end of the issue, so he didn't really have an opportunity to interact with anyone. The only one we saw him speak to was Speed Demon--and he's never met him before, so there is no reason he should remember him.

[cosmicspidey]

Genis taking Photon's name did annoy me, I don't know what's up with Marvel and the passing around of the Captain Marvel name. Perhaps the "Captain Marvel" title has to have a title in print in order for Marvel to use it regularly?

Maybe the next arc of Amazing Fantasy is going to debut a new teenage Latina super-heroine who uses the moniker?

[Will.S]

Maybe the next arc of Amazing Fantasy is going to debut a new teenage Latina super-heroine who uses the moniker?
Hah!

Arana seriously needs a cooler iconic costume as well as some other Marvel Next characters. X-23 is at least getting there with the Fang costume.

Anyway I guess I can adjust to him being Photon now but I wonder if he'll use the pretty cool white blue and gold costume from his "crazy" phase or his usual red blue and gold number.

[TJ Shoun]

The Radioactive Man is your daddy.

He could seriously become my favorite new Thunderbolt.

errr, not crazy about Genis going by "Photon" now. What happened to Monica?

The MU needs a Capt Marvel, just as the DCU does. It's a staple for both. :)

[UniqueFrequency]

Is it just me, or was Strucker's plan not entirely sane?

Let's see if I understand it. He's funding the Thunderbolts so that a superhero team will be around to fight him when he tries to destroy New York. Only, he doesn't actually want the team to win, he just wants them to put up a good enough fight so that... so that the Hydra rank-and-file will be really impressed with him when he defeats the opposition, thuse cementing his leadership.

Only, he doesn't seem to be trying particularly hard to keep it from the Hydra rank-and-file that he was the one funding the Thunderbolts in the first place. So that would seem to undercut his efforts to impress them.

And why was he trying to destroy New York in the first place? Just because? But if he had nuclear bombs planted through-out the city, why bother with the giant airships? Why not just detonate the bombs straight-off?

(pulls hair) It makes no sense!

yeah that jumped out at me too. pretty weird logic, that.

but then again. who can pretend to understand a one of these hydra people

CUT ONE OFF AND TWO SHALL TAKE IT'S PLACE!!

[Dermie]

The Radioactive Man is your daddy.

He could seriously become my favorite new Thunderbolt.

errr, not crazy about Genis going by "Photon" now. What happened to Monica?

The MU needs a Capt Marvel, just as the DCU does. It's a staple for both. :)

Nothing has happened to Monica; she is still around and still using the Photon name. Expect her to show up soon.

[FabianNicieza]

Is it just me, or was Strucker's plan not entirely sane?

Let's see if I understand it. He's funding the Thunderbolts so that a superhero team will be around to fight him when he tries to destroy New York. Only, he doesn't actually want the team to win, he just wants them to put up a good enough fight so that... so that the Hydra rank-and-file will be really impressed with him when he defeats the opposition, thuse cementing his leadership.

Only, he doesn't seem to be trying particularly hard to keep it from the Hydra rank-and-file that he was the one funding the Thunderbolts in the first place. So that would seem to undercut his efforts to impress them.

And why was he trying to destroy New York in the first place? Just because? But if he had nuclear bombs planted through-out the city, why bother with the giant airships? Why not just detonate the bombs straight-off?

(pulls hair) It makes no sense!


I thought I was clear enough, though obviously I wasn;t -- and I sure could have been helped a bit more in fleshing this out by ongoing events in Wolverine.

According to story notes provided me for Enemy of the State, the Hydra civil war would be won based on who caused the most death. Strucker's plan was to foment chaos and cause death. Simple. But even if that wasn't covered in EotS, Strucker still says as much in this issue, specifically: "I am in a contentious struggle to control my organization. To win, CHAOS must be fomented -- the screams of the DYING must feed the BEAST..."
Flowery, but clear.

Why did he fund the TBolts? Again, he says why in the issue: "-- I wanted local superhuman operatives who would fight back and fight hard -- all the better to escalate the carnage, but never quite capable enough to actually stop me."
Again, pretty clear, I think. He wanted good opponents, just not good enough to lose to. No reason his side of the Hydra faction couldn't hear all that.

As for the nukes, well, that escalation was meant as icing on the "carnage cake" and for another even more ridiculous dopey supervillain reason, as will be discussed in #9...
TBolts ALWAYS raises new questions while answering old ones. Lines of dialogue here or there become story points four issues down the road.
Hopefully, you'll stay on the road to get there...

-- fabian

[JeffreyWKramer]

I'm continuing to love this book, Fabian. Keep up the solid work.

I'm really, really surprised at how cool Radioactive Man has been so far. Great way to drag an under-used character out of retirement and make him fun and relevant.

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

I'm continuing to love this book, Fabian. Keep up the solid work.

I'm really, really surprised at how cool Radioactive Man has been so far. Great way to drag an under-used character out of retirement and make him fun and relevant.

I agree with JWK. My only reaction upon hearing that R Man was joining the T-Bolts was that it must be some kind of joke. Like, who's next? Fallout Boy? But, R Man has turned out to be a seriously cool addition. Nice work.

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

Nothing has happened to Monica; she is still around and still using the Photon name. Expect her to show up soon.

Really? That would be cool. One of my favorite 70s comics was the one in which Luke Cage fought the former Power Man (now our good friend Atlas) over the name. I could see Monica getting seriously p.o.'d over Genis swiping her moniker AGAIN.

[StoneGold]

Again, the only thing bothering me is I want to know how much damage those nukes actually did. Even if RM sucked up the radiation, the blasts themselves must have been pretty nasty.

[Lavteria]

Nothing has happened to Monica; she is still around and still using the Photon name. Expect her to show up soon.

I Can only hope they have her kicking ass.

[Titan Slade]

TBolts ALWAYS raises new questions while answering old ones. Lines of dialogue here or there become story points four issues down the road.
Hopefully, you'll stay on the road to get there...

-- fabian

Don't sweat it Fabian, posters around here treat comic book stories like they were real life events or historical facts. You make one continuity error, and you altered the history of the earth. Fan boys treat the comic book world, like the real world in their small brains :confused: .

[Jack]

I want to be buried with copies of New Thunderbolts.

[Anthony]

I Can only hope they have her kicking ass.

Preferably Genis'

[Slayven]

I want to be buried with copies of New Thunderbolts.I heard if you shred the pages and inject them they will cure cancer. This book is so good make me want to slap my mamma

[CodeMonkey]

This book has officially washed the bad taste out of my mouth caused by the Thunderbolts name being used for that SuperHuman Wrestling book.

*shudder*

Anyway, a great opening arc. It's nice seeing the bit characters from the past stepping up and being used (and we get a speedster, no less).

The Strucker plan didn't bother me that much, because I've been reading Wolverine so knew Strucker was getting increasingly desperate to retain his hold on the organization. So sinking New York seemed a perfectly logical thing for an insane desperate bald guy to do.

Genis..er..Captain Marvel..er...Photon I'm interested in seeing in this team (seeing as Marvel canned his awesome book). Obviously his powers would have to be dialed down some, or else he outclasses pretty much the entire team.

Good job overall and I'll be reading for some time to come.