Supergirls: what is the scoop here?

[clt123456789]

after crisis we had matrix. who then becomes linda danver. then she becomes the angel girl. then i go away and come back and hear about cir-el. then finally we get kara back. but she's a teen again and appears to need to spend a few months eating food. i love turner's art but does supergirl really need to be this skinny? laters

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Not sure exactly what the question is here....

If you're wondering why DC tried so many different permutations of Supergirl before finally returning to the incarnation everyone knows and likes anyways, the answer is pretty simple: It was decided that Superman would be the only survivor of Krypton and DC stuck with this ill-advised position for way longer than they should have. Then they came to their senses and brought back the version people wanted to see.

Whether this incarnation of Supergirl will sell as poorly as all of her other series is another matter...with Loeb & Churchill on board, I think this one might have a decent shot.

[Kid Seven]

I think many people forget that Supergirl was never really loved until AFTER she died, or possibly during Crisis. She was amazing in the issue where she died. Her comics never really sold well though, and it was a fairly easy decision for DC editorial. This new Supergirl has started off with a bang though. The problem will be in defining her enough to have a unique audience.

[Master Darque]

I wouldn't exactly say no one loved her .... she was more taken for granted , for one . Two , she was the female version of Supes . You can have the same argument with Babs/Batgirl/Oracle ...people want her handicap cured so she can be Batgirl again , but where were these people who loved her before she got the Moore treatment ? They took her for granted too , dadgummit !

Btw .... what part o' San Diego you from ? I'm in Texas now but was raised all over 619 ..... last residence being in La Mesa ! You make me homesick !

[Lorendiac]

Not sure exactly what the question is here....

If you're wondering why DC tried so many different permutations of Supergirl before finally returning to the incarnation everyone knows and likes anyways, the answer is pretty simple: It was decided that Superman would be the only survivor of Krypton and DC stuck with this ill-advised position for way longer than they should have. Then they came to their senses and brought back the version people wanted to see.

I personally would have said that that Peter David came to his senses after six years or so and finally brought back the version people wanted to see in the pages of the Supergirl title he was writing . . . then the book was cancelled and that one was shoved off into the "Silver Age parallel world" for which she had allegedly been destined all along.

Whether this incarnation of Supergirl will sell as poorly as all of her other series is another matter...with Loeb & Churchill on board, I think this one might have a decent shot.

Just one man's opinion here: Not with me, it won't!

After buying the 12-part "Hush" in the monthly installments, I have learned my lesson. I never buy anything new by Loeb in loose issues or in hardback collections. Only in TPB collections if at all. So that I don't spend a year reading a long epic in bits and pieces and wondering when the story is all going to make sense and the mysteries will be resolved, and then learning that the answer is "It's never going to make sense and the mysteries are never going to be satisfactorily resolved." Which means I haven't even read his Superman/Batman storyline about the return of Kara Zor-El yet; I've just heard about it. And I won't be buying monthly issues of anything else he writes about her, either.

[Lorendiac]

I think many people forget that Supergirl was never really loved until AFTER she died, or possibly during Crisis. She was amazing in the issue where she died. Her comics never really sold well though, and it was a fairly easy decision for DC editorial. This new Supergirl has started off with a bang though. The problem will be in defining her enough to have a unique audience.

You've reminded me of something. In a foreword he wrote to the TPB collection of "Crisis on Infinite Earths" Marv Wolfman talked a bit about the death of Supergirl and how fans reacted afterwards when they would meet him at conventions or mail him about it. I believe he said there were two basic claims that came up again and again in the feedback he got from his readers on that part:

1. Supergirl fans absolutely, positively hated the fact that he had killed off such a nice and courageous young lady as Supergirl.

2. Many fans also told him that the sequence in the middle of Crisis that focused on Supergirl's character, up to and including her dying scene as she said a few last words to her cousin Kal-El, was the best-written Supergirl story that they had ever seen DC publish.

(I don't think Marv made it clear if it was usually the exact same people making both of those claims at once, but I suspect there was indeed a lot of overlap. I can sympathize with both statements myself!)

Sometime after I read that, I had a chance to buy at a sale most of the issues of the last series she had before she died, the early-1980s one that lasted about two years. When I read them, I could see what the fans Marv met post-Crisis had been talking about. The stories were pretty bland, it seemed to me, compared to what other writers were doing on other characters at the same time, in the years immediately before the Crisis (in comics that I was actually buying in those years, when I just a young whippersnapper).

So it seems as if we could take these things to mean that there was nothing fundamentally wrong with the Supergirl character concept as it existed in the early 80s; she was just the victim of mediocre writing! If Marv Wolfman had gotten the chance to write a monthly about her in the early 80s, instead of having very little to do with her (as far as I know) until he was killing her off in Crisis, perhaps his take on her character and his popularity as writer of the New Teen Titans in that era would have carried over to her and she would have become a real moneymaker for DC again, and then by 1985 the editors never would have considered letting her get killed and erased from continuity?

It's a pity that many fans apparently felt that Marv Wolfman's dialogue for her as he got ready to kill her off was the best-written she'd ever been and a hint of what could have been done with her character in the future in the hands of a really good writer.

[BAnderson]

hm.... so Hal is back as GL and Supergirl is back heres my question





WHERE'S BARRY FREAKING ALLEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Paradox]

Sidebar question: Has Supergirl moved up to take over Hawkman's #2 spot for "most pointlessly convoluted history"? :D

Behind Donna Troy, of course.

[Forsaken_One]

Eh, it's not that convoluted.

Matrix was the original post-Crisis supergirl. Then she tried to save the life of Linda Davners by merging with her and they became one being. This was apparently selfless enough to make her into an earthbound angel. Eventually the angel part was taken out leaving only Linda Davners with limited superpowers. Linda went on a quest to find the angel part of herself, it merged with someone else, and she regained more powers. Then through alternate realitites/hypertime Kara Zor-El came into the main DCU from pre-Crisis DCU. Spectre came and said "ain't gunna happen" so Linda flew off to pre-Crisis DCU Earth in place of Kara Zor-el. She lived there a couple of years, married Superman, and had a kid. Then Crisis started happening and the Spectre came back and said "still ain't gunna happen." So Kara Zor-el went back to pre-Crisis DCU like normal. Linda took a sabbatical because, you know, the world she'd lived in for several years had been torn from her. Then a girl comes in who says she's Supergirl and Superman's daughter from the future but can't go into details. Superman is stupid so he believes her without question. He also doesn't mention Linda at all. Then she's revealed to be the plot of evil people and wiped out of existance. Then a new Kara Zor-el comes down to Earth and says she's Superman's cousin but can't go into details. Superman is stupid so he believes her without question. He also doesn't mention Linda at all.

[KET]

If you're wondering why DC tried so many different permutations of Supergirl before finally returning to the incarnation everyone knows and likes anyways, the answer is pretty simple:

DC SMELLED THE EASY MONEY they could make off of suckers ONLY AFTER PAD brought the Silver Age incarnation back for the final 6 issues of his SUPERGIRL series. Beforehand, the powers that be at DC didn't even give a damn about Kara Zor-El and her zombie fan faction.


It was decided that Superman would be the only survivor of Krypton and DC stuck with this ill-advised position for way longer than they should have. Then they came to their senses...

....and this MYTH is always more easy for the rubes to swallow than the real truth of the matter. :)

[Paradox]

Forsaken_One surely jests:

Eh, it's not that convoluted.

I would really hate to see something you DO consider convoluted, then. :)

[Paradox]

BAnderson wants to know:

hm.... so Hal is back as GL and Supergirl is back heres my question





WHERE'S BARRY FREAKING ALLEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Um...killed in Viet Nam?

It was good enough for the Beaver! ;)

[Forsaken_One]

I would really hate to see something you DO consider convoluted, then. :)
It can be easily translated (with few to no details) as the following: Matrix was created and was Supergirl. Matrix merged with Linda Davners. Matrix left Linda Davners, Linda still had powers. Then Mia came but was evil and died. Then Kara Zor-el came.

And I read Superman during the Death, Ressurection, Electric powers, and Red/Blue times. I know of Superboy's history, just try and chart who the hell his genetic doners have been. You mentioned Donna Troy. God help us if we go into the Legion of Super Heros. And even God can't help us if we start going into the history of the X-men, especially if we focus on the Summers family. Supergirl's history is relatively simple for comic books, or even soap operas.

[jade_nova]

Here's a fun question. What happened to people's memories of the pre-Crisis Supergirl? Do they still remember her? I am surprised that Superman is not confussed over the fact that his cousin died during the Crisis and is now here.

[Forsaken_One]

No, Supergirl was wiped from existance, no one remembers she existed.

Well, except for Linda Davners. For the last five issues of the last Supergirl series (version 3 I believe) Peter David had Kara Zor-el from the pre-Crisis universe, complete with all of Superman's pre-crisis powers, in the main DCU. There she met Superman, Superboy, and a bunch of others. And when she met them she always said something along the lines of "I'm Kara Zor-el."

Which is why not mentioning anything from the previous Supergirl stories is so confusing here. Superman should know of Kara Zor-el as his cousin from Krypton, at least in another universe. He should be wondering why this person has the exact same name and backstory. And yet he didn't even seem to remember that there had been any Supergirl before, let alone three (four if you're counting weird) of them.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Um...killed in Viet Nam?

It was good enough for the Beaver! ;)

Now you leave Beaver alone, he's a good boy, he is!

[marshal99]

Can we kill her again in the DC Countdown mini series ? She sucks.

[Stanlos]

Eh, it's not that convoluted.

Matrix was the original post-Crisis supergirl. Then she tried to save the life of Linda Davners by merging with her and they became one being. This was apparently selfless enough to make her into an earthbound angel. Eventually the angel part was taken out leaving only Linda Davners with limited superpowers. Linda went on a quest to find the angel part of herself, it merged with someone else, and she regained more powers. Then through alternate realitites/hypertime Kara Zor-El came into the main DCU from pre-Crisis DCU. Spectre came and said "ain't gunna happen" so Linda flew off to pre-Crisis DCU Earth in place of Kara Zor-el. She lived there a couple of years, married Superman, and had a kid. Then Crisis started happening and the Spectre came back and said "still ain't gunna happen." So Kara Zor-el went back to pre-Crisis DCU like normal. Linda took a sabbatical because, you know, the world she'd lived in for several years had been torn from her. Then a girl comes in who says she's Supergirl and Superman's daughter from the future but can't go into details. Superman is stupid so he believes her without question. He also doesn't mention Linda at all. Then she's revealed to be the plot of evil people and wiped out of existance. Then a new Kara Zor-el comes down to Earth and says she's Superman's cousin but can't go into details. Superman is stupid so he believes her without question. He also doesn't mention Linda at all.

LOL!!!!!! That is hilarious. But somehow does accurately sum up what happened. I don't think Supes is stupid though. I think the scribes have to take responsibility for that one. LOL!!

I do think it was a waste of a fantastic character and an amazing run to dump Danvers. And what's been done to Peege so far to make the new Supergirl cooler is even worse. Hopefully it will pan out in the end. But I am not betting my boys on it.

[davids]

And it's wonder woman who will be getting rid of her by killing her and superman will never forgive her for it!

[Stanlos]

And it's wonder woman who will be getting rid of her by killing her and superman will never forgive her for it!

Stop playing!

. . .


You . . . you ARE playing right?

[Stanlos]

Although if that is true, that would be SOME kind of wedge. That would be between these two for years to come. SHUDDER

[davids]

She either goes bad, was bad , is bad or b4eing controlled. And Wonder Woman is forced to kill her to save A the world, b save lois lane or c save her best friend superman! I think that would call a rift between the last son of krypton and the Amazon princess!

Enough of all the superman vs Wonder Woman talk
What about supergirl vs Wonder Woman?

[Ugoff]

after crisis we had matrix. who then becomes linda danver. then she becomes the angel girl. then i go away and come back and hear about cir-el. then finally we get kara back. but she's a teen again and appears to need to spend a few months eating food. i love turner's art but does supergirl really need to be this skinny? laters

DC couldnt pay me to buy this new Supergirl book that's coming out soon. She's getting her own solo title soon based on an article I read here at CBR. Just like Marvel, DC continues to spit in my face. I'm not having it. I also dislike that she's so skinny. There's just no way someone can have a body like that. I'm just so sick of the endless constant revamps and reimagineings. If DC hadnt kept interfering with Peter Davids run, with crossovers and such, the whole earth angel thing(that many we're losing patience with,but not me) would have ended a lot sooner and Kara Zor-El would have become the main character(if memory serves me correctly). Also if memory serves me correctly Peter David's run on the title started selling better after a dip in sales during the whole Linda/Kara arc.

[sikkbones]

power girl was also supergirls earth 2 counterpart.


so supergirl wasn't popular when she was killed off? how did her movie do? i thought it was better than superman IV