WWE RAW Review: " What Dreams are Made Of ."

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Yep...Its been another week and another week to buildup of the Grand Daddy of em all. So before I start this RAW Review ..I have some news to do.

The WWE and Paul Heyman met today to mend fences. The WWE now feels that In order to get former ECW Talent to come In , they need Sir Paul. Well that makes sense.

Heyman has already told the WWE they will need to work with TNA to use thier stars. And get who Is being courted to Main Event....Shane Douglas. Tell me you ever thought the WWE & Vince McMahon would work with Douglas ?

Plus the WWE feels Douglas's show Is more of a house show type so they don't care. Its expected that Raven , Douglas, and a few others will work the ECW Reunion PPV.

Before that happens they may need to apologize to a certain guy at TNA. Production Chief , Dave Shahadi feels pretty miffed about his ex-employer. Shahadi Is the guy who's earned praise from almost everyone with his TV Vignettes and PPV Spots for TNA.

Dave used to work for the WWF and left In 2003. Shahadi claims that he quit to find himself and that McMahon treated him like sh-t. That he would have gave 6 weeks notice but WWE Producer Kevin Dunn told him to leave In 2 weeks.

Then Shahadi's old friends were warned not to talk with him or e-mail him. Shahadi , claimed that this occured before the TNA/WWE Cookie Incident. Once that happened Dave's dad who worked for years and years for McMahon was fired to send a message. And old friends called up and swore at him.

The poor guy told In an Interview he wonders why people have acted like that. One producer warned everyone that: " Dave now works for the enemy..." . Its gonna take Heyman to repair this damage McMahon and company have done. You can read the Interview at www.411mania.com at a link there.

Last week Stephanie got huge heat backstage for forcing everyone to stay hours doing backstage filming. Bischoff worked 2 hours on takes of a scene which never even aired! The guys think she should have shot the damn scenes and left It alone. Absolute Power effects some I suppose....

The WWE filed a motion on the 3rd of March to give them time to handle Brock Lesnar's appeal of his " No Compete" clause. The new date to start work on this case If It goes to Court Is 4/1. Yeah...April Fools day for poor Brock Lesnar..huh ?

Onto RAW:

The Good: Shawn Micheals came out and kicked the show off with a ..decent promo. He's sellin this as a dream match of sorts as Angle Is jealous of him and all he's done. It works for me...

Angle comes In and pretty much sets It In stone. This will most likely be the Best Match on the Wrestlemania card. I hope Kurt's 100% and his neck Is up to It.

We see HHH go ahead and destroy Rosie. Yes because Rosie Is bigger than the Hurricane he gets some offense In. No matter Helms can work a mic and has gotten face heat when he's not bein squahed , he must be the one who gets outright DESTROYED! Because he wieghs less than 220.


No Chris Masters this week. How lucky were we ? Maybe they sent him back down to OVW. No were too blessed. Odds are he'll be on next week's show destroying another luckless jobber who prays he won't break thier face.


Backstage Bischoff and Jericho annouce thier "Master Idea" and boyo Its a goody. Take 6 of the talented mid-carders....ok 5 of them and throw em all Into a Ladder Match for the next World Title shot. Its gold baby!

Edge If he's under punishment doesn't seem to have suffered anything from the Lita revelations. He goes to leave but Bischoff annouces the stip as Edge bolts back In! Guys gold on a mic.

Edge and Jericho get time to give a solid Match. Edge and him do some stiff shots on each other. End result see's Edge use the ladder to score a cheap win.

Christian's promo was funny too. Its a damn shame they didn't put Matt Hardy In this. Hardy vs Christian would have at least been...ok. But I suppose the backstage Issues forced the change.

Kane crushes Captain Charisma. Damn....I coulda sworn I saw him pull out Kryptonite somewhere to win! Christian will do what he does best at Wrestlemania though...Edge should win ...but I'm pullin for Christian.


Trish cuts a great heel promo as usual. Man..Is she the best or what ? I mean she can scare Tajiri and Regal and then walk out and make Hemme look decent.

Note to self: Buy Playboy March 11.

Then we see Benoit and Benjimen. I can feel this will be an IC Title Match at some PPV. Its pretty awesome as Benoit beats Shelton . Match was hardcore at times but The Crippler Is the Man! He can school most Impressive kids. Great solid match....

Randy Orton makes his Underatker Wrestlemania Match as the fans just turned . They like Randy...but they love The Dead Man more. It would honestly shock me If Callous puts Orton over here. It would honest to god...Impress me. I may even take back a few nasty comments I made about him from 2002.


Backstage HHH and Flair plot to bring thierd man to the ring. Ole Anderson ? Tully Blanchard ? Barry Windham ? Arn Anderson ? No silly...LiL HHH ..The Sledgehammer! I'm seroius...both guys feel A-OK with a sledgehammer against Batista.

Ok maybe Its me...but Its like Batista could eat one and then crap It out and not give a damn. Or get hit and break the thing! So Bischoff takes LiL HHH away and HHH gets one during the Flair/Batista Match.

Man Is Flair just someone who can coax out this rare response from a wrestler and fans ? The fans love Flair , but they turned quickly to Batista. And the moment he slaps him and goes WOOOOOOOOO , Batista snarls and flexes and GROOOWWWLLLL as the fans ate It up. WOW.

Batista remained strong as he broke LiL HHH In half as big HHH looked on In terror. Its just freakin exciting as fans cheered. Guys that damn over...and growing. The WWE has hit thier HR with this guy.


The Bad: Man how many were thinking , " Lita had time to train Christy Hemme with her banging Edge shedule ? "

This Is gonna suck odds are. If Christy does win the Women's Title Its pretty much the deathnail In the Division. She's a T & A Diva. Not a wrestler. Trish Is a fantastic wrestler. Good luck Christy....I am buyin the Playboy though.

I finally have figured out what the Cena/ JBL Match at Wrestlemania 21 will be like. Picture George W Bush ( JBL ) and his Cabinet on one side. Then like a scene from Mosh , the music Video Eminem ( Cena) leads a revolt to his doorstep! Damn It...this could sell. To bad times ran out on It though....


OVERALL: **** Outta 5. The Benjimen/Benoit match was too short as was the Jericho/Edge Match. But the mid-card kicks ass on RAW. Edge doesn't seem to be punished as he's headin Into Wrestlemania In a key Upper-card PPV Spot. With perhaps a bigger push to Main Events down the line.

Wrestlemania...2 weeks away and Its as Shawn Micheals said: What Dreams Are Made Of.

[VCreed32]

Heh, Christy said she was trained by Lita like it's a good thing.
Anyone else notice, the Undertaker ad for Wrestlemania didn't have anything to do with Wrestlemania?
Best line from the King, about going from zero to horny to 3.5 seconds.
Trish is so dynamite and if she were to be in Playboy I'd get it just so it would help her. (I'm on the internet, what do I need to buy it for ;))

[Alex]

weeks away and Its as Shawn Micheals said: What Dreams Are Made Of.
The odd thign being, the audience reaction to micheals was a mix of boos and silence.

[Shadow Crawler]

I was annoyed for the most part with RAW. Mostly because of how overboard they're going with HHH. But the Shawn Michale promo was fantastic.

As far as matches go, HHH vs. Rosey was basically HHH vs. Hurricane again, which was really annoying. I didn't so much enjoy Christian vs. Kane, Edge vs. Jericho was a great match, and missed most of the Benoit/Benjamin match, but I'm thinking that I didn't miss much. And Batista vs. Flair was pretty decent.

I really couldn't have been bothered to care about the Trish/Christy thing... It was all pretty terrible, except for Lita's return. She's one of the best women's wrestlers. And I might check out the playboy, though I'm not really a fan of Christy.

[GremlinClr]

Anyone else notice the sign in the audience in the Edge/Jericho match? "Edge Speared Lita" I spit coke all over my coffee table. :D

So we have 5 amazing wrestlers in a ladder match at WM...and Kane. Hmmm, lets go back to Sesame Street, "One of these things is not the same..." I was hoping Hassan would be in it but oh well.

Ortan vs. Taker. When he was making the announcement (and yeah, I had already read on here about the match) the way he was talking I thought they were gonna do something crazy like a father vs. son angle for a minute. While that would be interesting I seem to recall reading somewhere that Cowboy Bob didn't hold up as well as say Flair.

Christy's announcement. Ugh. I saw coming, but like a train wreck I couldn't look away. Trish is downright talented and to have to put up with crap like this.

All in all a good RAW. No Chris Masters, some solid matches between good wrestlers, I can't complain.

[marshal99]

Frankly with Cowboy Bob Orton dad being honored in the hall of fame , i wouldn't be surprised one bit if Randy's dad help Randy beat the Undertaker and Randy turning heel again.

Strange choice of Kane in the ladder match , it's like they do not know what to do with him at WM and so , just chuck him into the ladder match.

As i said before , the Angle/HBK match is going to BE the match to watch at WM.

[Leslie Lee III]

WM 21, ladder match, Kane's entrance pops off....yet no one comes down. Cameras move to the back and we see Kane, bloodied, laid out. Next few moments and it hits, Matt Hardy Version 2 his entrance and forces his way into the match. Edge tries to run, but V2 catches him and they have a bloody brawl outside the ring and through the crowd. Now THAT'S money.

[GremlinClr]

WM 21, ladder match, Kane's entrance pops off....yet no one comes down. Cameras move to the back and we see Kane, bloodied, laid out. Next few moments and it hits, Matt Hardy Version 2 his entrance and forces his way into the match. Edge tries to run, but V2 catches him and they have a bloody brawl outside the ring and through the crowd. Now THAT'S money.

Oh I'd love to see it. But no matter how much both parties say they could be professional, Vince would never allow it because it would turn into a shoot. It's just way too soon and emotions are still too high.

[Shade]

I thought last nights RAW was solid. Jericho and Benoit are really just outstanding workers. They both had strong opponents last night and all four men worked well in the short ammount of time they had. Benoit went over Benjamin without Shelton looking weak and Jericho made Edge look great. Only thing that would have made it better would have been to see Christian go over Kane.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I'm part dismayed because I wanted to see Benjimen defend the IC Title In a singles Match at Wrestlemania. It would have gave the mid-card belt some attention sad to say.

[VCreed32]

Was it a good thing or a bad thing that Christy didn't do the ToF correctly?
Because if she hadn't messed up on the arm switch, she migh have injured Trish.

[Alex]

I can see this as all a big setup for vince to try something new.
Two young guys going at it.
Imagine if you will, a newly heel turned Randy Orton, unable to generate face heat no matter what they tries, becomes the first man to beat Taker at wrestlemania.
Batista, another young guy who didn't draw much as a heel but is exploding as a face, becomes one of only a single hand full of people who HHH,who has gotten way to much tv time.
So you have Orton, a hell who beat Taker, and you Batista, who beat HHH, both of which are sort of staples of the old guard and...
BAM! Instant new feud!

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I can see this as all a big setup for vince to try something new.
Two young guys going at it.
Imagine if you will, a newly heel turned Randy Orton, unable to generate face heat no matter what they tries, becomes the first man to beat Taker at wrestlemania.
Batista, another young guy who didn't draw much as a heel but is exploding as a face, becomes one of only a single hand full of people who HHH,who has gotten way to much tv time.
So you have Orton, a hell who beat Taker, and you Batista, who beat HHH, both of which are sort of staples of the old guard and...
BAM! Instant new feud!


It could happen. But the WWE seems Intent on keeping Orton a face for now. Edge would work better because he's a hot heel and his act of the ; " I've been screwed outta the Title so much...." works.

Plus Batista did cost him the Title In Japan a few weeks back. It leads to thier Fued a lot.

[Alex]

It could happen. But the WWE seems Intent on keeping Orton a face for now. Edge would work better because he's a hot heel and his act of the ; " I've been screwed outta the Title so much...." works.


That legend killer thing isn't really the way to get him over as a face, and they brought it back.
Its a weird mix, because if he beats undertaker clean, thats not a heel move. But if he beats him dirty, it doesn't mean as much, finding a mix (which as of yet, i havent found how they could do that) is going to be the trouble.
UNLESS he beats taker clean, and then they do the "Taker shakes his hand" thing, and he attacks him.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

That legend killer thing isn't really the way to get him over as a face, and they brought it back.
Its a weird mix, because if he beats undertaker clean, thats not a heel move. But if he beats him dirty, it doesn't mean as much, finding a mix (which as of yet, i havent found how they could do that) is going to be the trouble.
UNLESS he beats taker clean, and then they do the "Taker shakes his hand" thing, and he attacks him.


I think If he beats Taker It will be fairly and ala Benoit...he will shake his hand. This way Orton keeps some face heat and Taker has just put him over and signeled that he accepts Orton as a Legend Killer.

Orton lost popularity because they tried making him Into an Austin/Rock hybrid. Look at Batista and see what works ? He Isn't them. Its the same way RVD hit big there. He wasn't them and he could have been a huge player In the company.

Orton should have stayed the cocky , charsimatic face . Guy who tells people he can beat em. Instead he drifted Into the role the WWE tried forcin him Into and people spit It up.


God knows they should just push Batista as a monster. They have him breakin sledgehammers and Invokin fear on HHH. God willin they keep this formula.

[sir_snikt'alot]

i like raw this week,except for edge boring the crap out of me,and the fact that he didnt get a side order of whoopass from matt hardy coming back.

i was also glad chris 'masterpiece of shit' masters wasnt on,as he is diabolical.

the undertaker wrestlemania promo was funny,especially the guy saying 'you son of a bitch!',although taker blasting him was abit scary,is it the shape of things to come? maybe he'll turn darkside or something.

i hated the trips/rosey squash,rosey could of been made to look good as a big man,and a threat,but no trips had to look uber powerful,even giving rosey a spinebuster!!

tomko still hasnt solved any problems.

and that twist of fate christy did was actually ten times better than when lita does it,the backstabbing ho.

[hangmanjury]

I am so unbelievably sick of Shawn Michaels.

Now, I was a big fan of the Rockers, and I liked him when he turned heel, but I was always skewed against him the moment he won the Iron Man match against Bret Hart, my favorite. SO maybe it's that.

But I am just SO SICK of his character. I think I always have been. People from my generation found DX cool; I wanted Owen to kill them. Then Shawn became commissioner and that was cool, keeping his appearances to a minimum, making each time special.

And then he came back, and not only does he come back, but he ends up beating just about every single wrestler in sight. Christian can't score a win off him. Chris Benoit couldn't beat him fairly in a singles match. Chris Jericho lost to him at Wrestlemania when Jericho should have been put over. Edge beats him at the Rumble, but Shawn goes on to take back the win later.

Now, i don't know if that's Shawn's, HHH's, or management's fault, but I'm just so sick of that hasbeen getting all the damn spotlight. Even at New Year's Revolution, when he superkicked Edge, my only reaction was that no one was watching that match for him, and he just can't stay out of the spotlight.

I'm just so sick of him. He's like an overplayed song, one that wasn't deserving to be overplayed to begin with. Edge and Christian work their butts off in the ring, on the mic, and they have to play second fiddle to this guy. It's their turn. Step the hell down, Shawn.

Anyway, that's my rant for today. I'll conclude by saying I'll really hate it if Shawn beats Kurt at Mania, because Shawn, as good a performer as he is, was never - will never be - the best wrestler.

[killermime88]

Anyone else notice the sign in the audience in the Edge/Jericho match? "Edge Speared Lita" I spit coke all over my coffee table. :D


I would've loved to have seen that!!

[Erik Lehnsherr]

I liked Orton's promo. It was a good heel type of promo for Orton who works best as heel most obviously. I loved the facial reactions to the overwhelming boos he got for promising to end Undertaker's WM winning streak. As much as I liked the promo though, I swear I'll chant "DIE Orton DIE!" at WM if I feel he's close to beating the Undertaker. The boy is a ripoff of the Rock. Throw in his Austin like RKO crap and you have a WWE bred superstar imitating the two biggest superstars of this era. Vince better be careful with this one.

HHH vs Rosie. Nice moonsault by Rosie and that's it. HHH still sucks.

The 6-Man Ladder Money match for a future World title is going to be a match capable of stealing the show at WM. I loved the mixture of matches between the 6 opponents. Edge vs Jericho was fun mostly for the chants as Jericho just kicked his ass from the opening bell. Edge wins with the cheap ladder shot but the "You SCREWED Matt", "We want Matt", and "You Screwed Lita" chants may end up haunting Edge long past just this Monday. He really fucked up this time.

Christian vs Kane was basically a handicap match with Tomko getting involved too much. Christian still lost but did steady work for one booked to job.

Batista vs Flair was pretty awful. Batista no sold much of Flair's offense but what was even more impressive in the end was that the North Carolina audience didn't boo Batista out. Interesting. Flair Country? Not this time around. It's good to see HHH still remain the cowardly chump he should of been the majority of his career.

Benoit vs Benjamin was the absolute best match of the night. Great mat wrestling with excellent counterwrestling from each man. Benoit is the ONLY wrestler since Benjamin got to Raw that went counter for counter with the great mat wrestler. They started with takedowns, fireman carrys, riding each other to the ropes, and then it turned into a brawl once Benoit shoved Shelton. Benoit worked the back but Benjamin countered the Germans with a beautiful index roll up. Benoit did a SICK dive on the Ladder that generated a quick "Holy SHIT" chant from the crowd. Benjamin ended up going for his Dragon whip but Benoit ducked and got the Crippler Crossface. In which Shelton tapped out and suffered a rare loss in single's competition. For it's time, it was very good in ring work from both men. The match I wanted to see most this year next to Rock vs Michaels finally happend. Now if only they could get a 30 minute time limit with whover gets the most falls in that time wins. Pretty much a 30 minute Iron Man. Or even a good 2/3 falls would be fitting. Benjamin vs Benoit RULED!! "One More Match!" "One More Match!"

All in all, this Raw gets a 9/10. Oh yeah. Can't wait to see Angle make Michaels tap out as well in 4 weeks. Should be great.

[Alex]

I am so unbelievably sick of Shawn Michaels.

Im with you 500%.

[VCreed32]

I liked Orton's promo. It was a good heel type of promo for Orton who works best as heel most obviously. I loved the facial reactions to the overwhelming boos he got for promising to end Undertaker's WM winning streak. As much as I liked the promo though, I swear I'll chant "DIE Orton DIE!" at WM if I feel he's close to beating the Undertaker. The boy is a ripoff of the Rock. Throw in his Austin like RKO crap and you have a WWE bred superstar imitating the two biggest superstars of this era. Vince better be careful with this one.

HHH vs Rosie. Nice moonsault by Rosie and that's it. HHH still sucks.

The 6-Man Ladder Money match for a future World title is going to be a match capable of stealing the show at WM. I loved the mixture of matches between the 6 opponents. Edge vs Jericho was fun mostly for the chants as Jericho just kicked his ass from the opening bell. Edge wins with the cheap ladder shot but the "You SCREWED Matt", "We want Matt", and "You Screwed Lita" chants may end up haunting Edge long past just this Monday. He really fucked up this time.

Christian vs Kane was basically a handicap match with Tomko getting involved too much. Christian still lost but did steady work for one booked to job.

Batista vs Flair was pretty awful. Batista no sold much of Flair's offense but what was even more impressive in the end was that the North Carolina audience didn't boo Batista out. Interesting. Flair Country? Not this time around. It's good to see HHH still remain the cowardly chump he should of been the majority of his career.

Benoit vs Benjamin was the absolute best match of the night. Great mat wrestling with excellent counterwrestling from each man. Benoit is the ONLY wrestler since Benjamin got to Raw that went counter for counter with the great mat wrestler. They started with takedowns, fireman carrys, riding each other to the ropes, and then it turned into a brawl once Benoit shoved Shelton. Benoit worked the back but Benjamin countered the Germans with a beautiful index roll up. Benoit did a SICK dive on the Ladder that generated a quick "Holy SHIT" chant from the crowd. Benjamin ended up going for his Dragon whip but Benoit ducked and got the Crippler Crossface. In which Shelton tapped out and suffered a rare loss in single's competition. For it's time, it was very good in ring work from both men. The match I wanted to see most this year next to Rock vs Michaels finally happend. Now if only they could get a 30 minute time limit with whover gets the most falls in that time wins. Pretty much a 30 minute Iron Man. Or even a good 2/3 falls would be fitting. Benjamin vs Benoit RULED!! "One More Match!" "One More Match!"

All in all, this Raw gets a 9/10. Oh yeah. Can't wait to see Angle make Michaels tap out as well in 4 weeks. Should be great.
Crap, Benoit had this terrific move into a Crossface, but I can't remember what it was.

[Leslie Lee III]

Now, i don't know if that's Shawn's, HHH's, or management's fault, but I'm just so sick of that hasbeen getting all the damn spotlight.

And that has nothing to do with his actual wrestling and obviously blinds your judgment. His entire time back he's been used perfectly to elevate and put over guys. Not to mention, he's still one of the best performers in the world, and he's going to be until the day he retires. Hate it or love it, those are the facts. He still can go just as good as anyone, so he's allowed to win a few. I doubt Christian, or Edge, or Y2J, or Randy Orton regret a single match they've had with him or would deny that it's aided them in their careers.

Bret Hart was my favorite wrestler too, and the fact that Shawn could go an hour plus with him and put on such a great match says all that needs to be said about Shawn.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Management told Matt Hardy to not attend the show. He lives within miles of Raliegh and the WWE felt an Incident would occur. Hardy agreed and stayed home.

The WWE officials then set down with Lita and Edge and talked about the Incident and how It shouldn't effect business. Or the road to Wrestlemania. The Smackdown guys were so Intrqiued Its reported they called asking about updates.


Many backstage have sided with Matt Hardy feeling he was a loyal person who was pretty much did sh-tty. But It appears many aren't gonna cause a stir backstage.


In WWE and Ultimate Fighter news: The ratings are In and here they are:

The WWE did a 3.8 this week. Down from thier high 4.1 last week rating. The Ultimate Fighter did a 1.6 for the week.


credit:

www.pwinsider.com
www.411mania.com

[eJm]

A bit off topic, but did anyone see the new WM trailer with the Undertaker as Dirty Harry?

Damn, Taker should do the remake

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Crap, Benoit had this terrific move into a Crossface, but I can't remember what it was.

Are you talking about when he would toss a opponent in the air and as they come down, he snaps the Crossface on as seen at Wrestlemaina 19. Or are you referring to what happened on Monday against Shelton?

[Erik Lehnsherr]

And that has nothing to do with his actual wrestling and obviously blinds your judgment. His entire time back he's been used perfectly to elevate and put over guys. Not to mention, he's still one of the best performers in the world, and he's going to be until the day he retires. Hate it or love it, those are the facts. He still can go just as good as anyone, so he's allowed to win a few. I doubt Christian, or Edge, or Y2J, or Randy Orton regret a single match they've had with him or would deny that it's aided them in their careers.

Bret Hart was my favorite wrestler too, and the fact that Shawn could go an hour plus with him and put on such a great match says all that needs to be said about Shawn.

Honestly, who has Michaels elevated? The fans were behind Benoit when he jobbed to him. That didn't matter. He went over Jericho at WM 19 even though Jericho outperformed him with the ring side fans backing Chris. Yes, Jericho got the win back two months later in their "Hollywood rematch" but most fans don't remember that. The WM 19 match is what sticks out. He loss to Edge at the Rumble this year but got his face heat back by beating Edge in a unrealistic matter last week. Another won of his Superman wins. He got his wins back on Orton and Christian too. CLEAN. So, make no mistake about it, Michaels does hold back future talent. He needs to take cues from Foley and Rock...put over the future and other superstars to make them credible. After all these years, he's is STILL stealing the spotlight from more deserving talent. Michaels needs to retire. He's boring and outdated. :mad:

[Forefinger]

Management told Matt Hardy to not attend the show. He lives within miles of Raliegh and the WWE felt an Incident would occur. Hardy agreed and stayed home.

The WWE officials then set down with Lita and Edge and talked about the Incident and how It shouldn't effect business. Or the road to Wrestlemania. The Smackdown guys were so Intrqiued Its reported they called asking about updates.


Many backstage have sided with Matt Hardy feeling he was a loyal person who was pretty much did sh-tty. But It appears many aren't gonna cause a stir backstage.


www.411mania.com
I've been away for awhile from the computer and from watching RAW. What happened to Matt Hardy, Lita, and Edge?

[VCreed32]

Are you talking about when he would toss a opponent in the air and as they come down, he snaps the Crossface on as seen at Wrestlemaina 19. Or are you referring to what happened on Monday against Shelton?
It happened Monday.

[Leslie Lee III]

Honestly, who has Michaels elevated?

All the people I named, I just said them. Do you think they regret trading wins with HBK? I highly, highly doubt it. Apparently you people have been to the Goldberg school of wrestling. Someone loosing clean, and it's a "squash." Someone doesn't win every match in a feud with a huge star and they aren't elevated. Hell, god forbid Michaels beats someone who he doesn't put over first, you'll claim he's burying them. This is how wrestling feuds are SUPPOSED to happen. It doesn't need to be one sided to elevate someone. Hell, the guy being elevated doesn't even need to win ANY of the matches depending on the circumstances.

[Royal]

Puroresu Power & Wrestling Observer has confirmed it.

You will have your special piss break.

[eJm]

Puroresu Power & Wrestling Observer has confirmed it.

You will have your special piss break.
We already know about Chrissy vs. Trish, surely nothing could be worse.


Oh God..............



Please do not say it involves the words 'Diva Contest'.

[Royal]

We already know about Chrissy vs. Trish, surely nothing could be worse.


Oh God..............



Please do not say it involves the words 'Diva Contest'.

Nope.

'Sumo Match'

[Convoy]

Nope.

'Sumo Match'

I think you mean 'Sumo Diva Match'

[Royal]

I think you mean 'Sumo Diva Match'

Nope. Sumo match. Gonna dress the ring up as a daisho & everything.

[eJm]

Nope.

'Sumo Match'
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO!

Originally Posted by Convoy
I think you mean 'Sumo Diva Match'

Well, as long as it doesn't involve Mae Young, I'll be fine with it.

[Convoy]

Nope. Sumo match. Gonna dress the ring up as a daisho & everything.

Hmmm, no wonder WM is 4 hours this year.

[marshal99]

Hmmm, no wonder WM is 4 hours this year.

WM has been around 4+ hours long for the past few years. It is the pinnacle PPV of the WWE.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

It happened Monday.

Benjamin went for the Dragon Whip spin kick and Benoit reversed it into the Crossface.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

All the people I named, I just said them. Do you think they regret trading wins with HBK? I highly, highly doubt it. Apparently you people have been to the Goldberg school of wrestling. Someone loosing clean, and it's a "squash." Someone doesn't win every match in a feud with a huge star and they aren't elevated. Hell, god forbid Michaels beats someone who he doesn't put over first, you'll claim he's burying them. This is how wrestling feuds are SUPPOSED to happen. It doesn't need to be one sided to elevate someone. Hell, the guy being elevated doesn't even need to win ANY of the matches depending on the circumstances.

The problem with your little cosenus is that Michaels looks the strongest in his victories. This guy is 40 years old, can barely nip up, and is going over fucking Edge or Christian? WHAT?! Your trying to justify that? Sad.

[Leslie Lee III]

The problem with your little cosenus is that Michaels looks the strongest in his victories. This guy is 40 years old, can barely nip up, and is going over fucking Edge or Christian? WHAT?! Your trying to justify that? Sad.

FYI: Wrestling is fake. Who wins and loses is not really based on who would win or lose in a real life. That being said HBK is still in great shape, you just hate him for whatever mark reason and are (poorly) using his age to attack him. That's cool to hate him, just don't try to justify by falsely criticizing his in-ring ability or his willingness to elevate younger guys. He still puts on great matches and I don't think even one of those guys we're talking about would complain about trading victories with a legend like HBK. A legend who can still go with them and put on great matches.

[Brad Curran]

I loved Benoit vs. Benjamin. I'd love to see them feud post Wrestlemania. Edge vs. Jericho was solid, as usual. Batista vs. Flair wasn't that good of a match, but it served its purpose, and I must say that Batista breaking the sledge was a pretty cool moment.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I'm gonna say that Shawn Micheals has put guys over and has worked with youngsters who need It. Christian and Edge hold victories over him. Edge has came out looking as a superstar heel now since his heated fued with Micheals.

Randy Orton 2 years ago was In the midst of a heel push and he too went over. Micheals wins because he's a guy they can't job out. They need to make Shawn look strong , because..hell have you seen the guy? He's showing up the entire roster at the moment. Hell the guys put on a lot of 5* star matches In the last 3 years to grow his LEGEND STATUS.

I do knock Shawn at times. I feel he's fueded too much with HHH and that the finish to Royal Rumble 2004 was so god awful It had fans booing In complete anger!

I also feel he's ducked Rob Van Dam a lot. Even though ..almost every fan ( even my 9 yearold cousin asks) demands those 2 square off In a Ladder Match. Which will never happen It seems and I've done gave up asking because apparntly common sense says to let Micheals fued with Garrison Cade when he gets another shot on the RAW Roster.


But Micheals Is still talented and can suck fans Into his matches. He's also risen the profiles of Benoit , Orton , Edge and Jericho a lot In 2 years.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

The WWE has signed Tracy Smothers and Tony Mamaluke to reform the FBI with Little Guido at the ECW PPV. The 3 were pretty much the funniest members of FBI and usually Smothers would get Intrdouced being from: Nashville Italy. A fact Joey Styles asked, "Ok where the hell on the map Is Nashville , Italy ? Is It located next to Memphis , Rome ? "


The WWE will be bringing In Super Crazy once his Visa problems are settled. Odds are he'll make It In time for the ECW PPV.


The WWE In a moment of absolute genuis has signed all the ex-ECW Ref's . John Finigan , Mike Kehner , Jim Molineux and...FONZIE!! Yes Bill Alphonso , " The Man who calls It right down the middle" will work the ECW PPV! God knows the WWE could have Fonzie and Rob Van Dam hook up and pair them again. Mic problems solved.


Sonjay Dutt and C.W Anderson were both used as Secuirity Guards In skits with JBL.


Matt Hardy has been pulled from all House Show appearances leading up til Wrestlemania. God...thats pretty rough. I don't think Matt will shoot Edge ..but damn.

The Rock has signed on for a Buddy sitcom after DOOM called Ride Along.


The WWE DVD Release shedule Is as follows. The ones In bold are the ones I'm buyin.

June 2005: Judgement Day 2005 PPV DVD , WWE Legends Vol.1 DVD , Road Warriors 2 disc set.

July 2005: ECW One Night Stand 2005 PPV DVD with The Rise & Fall of ECW Package. ( already own the 1st ECW)

Aug. 2005: Great American Bash 2005 PPV DVD , Vengence 2005 PPV DVD , From the Vault: Undertaker 2 disc DVD Set.

Sept. 2005: Summerslam 2005 PPV DVD , Ultimate Warrior: 2 disc DVD Set.

Oct. 2005: Unforgiven 2005 PPV DVD

Nov. 2005: WWE Legends Vol.2 DVD , No Mercy 2005 PPV DVD.

Dec. 2005: Taboo Tuesday 2005 PPV DVD , Survivor Series 2005 PPV DVD

Jan. 2006: Armageddon 2006 PPV DVD

Feb. 2006: New Years Revolution 2006 PPV DVD , Royal Rumble 2006 PPV DVD , ECW's Greatest Matches : 2 disc DVD Set.

March 2006: No Way Out PPV DVD , New Diva's Release DVD.




Ok judgin from this...why the wait on ECW ? Damn It people...were smoking! We demand the DVD come out sooner.


Paul Heyman Is currently down In OVW with Dreamer helping the kids learn how to tape promo's. Guys a genuis..hopefully they learn.

The final WRESTLEMANIA 21# Card Is supposedly:


Batista vs HHH : World Title

John Cena vs JBL: WWE Title

Kurt Angle vs Shawn Micheals

The Undertaker vs Randy Orton

Pipers Pit with Steve Austin

Chris Benoit vs Edge vs Chris Jericho vs Shelton Benjimen vs Christian vs Kane: Ladder Match for 1# Contender to World Title

Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio Jr

Big Show vs Akebono : Sumo Match

Paul London vs Chavo Guerrero: Cruiserwieght Title Match

Christy Hemme vs Trish Stratus: Women's Title Match


credit:

www.PWTorch.com
www.pwinsider.com
www.411mania.com

[Howard Allan]

The WWE has signed Tracy Smothers and Tony Mamaluke to reform the FBI with Little Guido at the ECW PPV. The 3 were pretty much the funniest members of FBI and usually Smothers would get Intrdouced being from: Nashville Italy. A fact Joey Styles asked, "Ok where the hell on the map Is Nashville , Italy ? Is It located next to Memphis , Rome ? "


The WWE will be bringing In Super Crazy once his Visa problems are settled. Odds are he'll make It In time for the ECW PPV.


The WWE In a moment of absolute genuis has signed all the ex-ECW Ref's . John Finigan , Mike Kehner , Jim Molineux and...FONZIE!! Yes Bill Alphonso , " The Man who calls It right down the middle" will work the ECW PPV! God knows the WWE could have Fonzie and Rob Van Dam hook up and pair them again. Mic problems solved.


Sonjay Dutt and C.W Anderson were both used as Secuirity Guards In skits with JBL.


Matt Hardy has been pulled from all House Show appearances leading up til Wrestlemania. God...thats pretty rough. I don't think Matt will shoot Edge ..but damn.

The Rock has signed on for a Buddy sitcom after DOOM called Ride Along.


The WWE DVD Release shedule Is as follows. The ones In bold are the ones I'm buyin.

June 2005: Judgement Day 2005 PPV DVD , WWE Legends Vol.1 DVD , Road Warriors 2 disc set.

July 2005: ECW One Night Stand 2005 PPV DVD with The Rise & Fall of ECW Package. ( already own the 1st ECW)

Aug. 2005: Great American Bash 2005 PPV DVD , Vengence 2005 PPV DVD , From the Vault: Undertaker 2 disc DVD Set.

Sept. 2005: Summerslam 2005 PPV DVD , Ultimate Warrior: 2 disc DVD Set.

Oct. 2005: Unforgiven 2005 PPV DVD

Nov. 2005: WWE Legends Vol.2 DVD , No Mercy 2005 PPV DVD.

Dec. 2005: Taboo Tuesday 2005 PPV DVD , Survivor Series 2005 PPV DVD

Jan. 2006: Armageddon 2006 PPV DVD

Feb. 2006: New Years Revolution 2006 PPV DVD , Royal Rumble 2006 PPV DVD , ECW's Greatest Matches : 2 disc DVD Set.

March 2006: No Way Out PPV DVD , New Diva's Release DVD.




Ok judgin from this...why the wait on ECW ? Damn It people...were smoking! We demand the DVD come out sooner.


Paul Heyman Is currently down In OVW with Dreamer helping the kids learn how to tape promo's. Guys a genuis..hopefully they learn.

The final WRESTLEMANIA 21# Card Is supposedly:


Batista vs HHH : World Title

John Cena vs JBL: WWE Title

Kurt Angle vs Shawn Micheals

The Undertaker vs Randy Orton

Pipers Pit with Steve Austin

Chris Benoit vs Edge vs Chris Jericho vs Shelton Benjimen vs Christian vs Kane: Ladder Match for 1# Contender to World Title

Eddie Guerrero vs Rey Mysterio Jr

Big Show vs Akebono : Sumo Match

Paul London vs Chavo Guerrero: Cruiserwieght Title Match

Christy Hemme vs Trish Stratus: Women's Title Match


credit:

www.PWTorch.com
www.pwinsider.com
www.411mania.com

Why on earth did they have to put kane in the 6 man ladder match? The first 5 would be great, but then they throw Kane into the mix. That's the most horrible that they could have done. Even snitsky would have been better. What a way to ruin what should have been a great match.

[marshal99]

While Kane is certanly the odd man out from the 6 man ladder match , why would he ruin the match ? I highly doubt Kane is going to win it. With or without Kane , the ladder match is still going to be great.
As the Snitsky/Heidenreich vs Kane/UT plans have been scrapped , Kane would have had nothing to do at WM and that would have been a waste .

[eJm]

I am actually looking forward to the ladder match. Kane is a good addition since he can actually pull off a good match on occasion (TLC 4, anyone?).

The card looks pretty damn cool except, obviously, the Sumo match and Hemmy vs. Stratus.

[Alex]

But Micheals Is still talented and can suck fans Into his matches. He's also risen the profiles of Benoit , Orton , Edge and Jericho a lot In 2 years.
I'd disagree on benoit and Jericho, simply because some weird thing happened with Benoit where (i assume) the fans just felt he deserved to get his shot; when he won Royal Rumble, he was in.
As for Jericho, he wasn't exactly unpopular in WCW, and even ignoring that he had one of the best entrances in WWE ever (What was that? A friggen 8 month build up?) they put him directly after the Rock (if memory serves).
The reason micheals and jericho happened was because Jericho was already popular, not because they were trying to make him more popular.

[lboinyamouf4sho]

i don't think kane would ruin the match, he could serve a purpose or even be used as a prop of sorts

[Forefinger]

I am actually looking forward to the ladder match. Kane is a good addition since he can actually pull off a good match on occasion (TLC 4, anyone?).

The card looks pretty damn cool except, obviously, the Sumo match and Hemmy vs. Stratus.
What I remember about those tag team matches with Kane is...........nothing. He was always knocked out on the floor for 5+ minutes at a time.

What happened between Edge, Lita, and Matt Hardy? Why is he banned from WWE shows?

[eJm]

What I remember about those tag team matches with Kane is...........nothing. He was always knocked out on the floor for 5+ minutes at a time.


See! For all you Kane haters out there, this is encouraging!

[Alex]

See! For all you Kane haters out there, this is encouraging!
It makes me happy.
If Kane wins a match that decides who's getting a new title shot, it would be horrible.
God...Kane Vs Batista would be boring times ten.

[eJm]

It makes me happy.
If Kane wins a match that decides who's getting a new title shot, it would be horrible.
God...Kane Vs Batista would be boring times ten.
Good point.

Now Kane vs. Abyss..........................that's a different story :D

[boolean]

What happened between Edge, Lita, and Matt Hardy? Why is he banned from WWE shows?

The best information I can find about what happened is here. (http://www.twnpnews.com/messages/12817.shtml)

Speculation is that Matt Hardy was supposed to be in the six-man ladder match at Wrestlemania, but the WWE is worried about what might happen if he and Edge are in a match.

[marshal99]

It makes me happy.
If Kane wins a match that decides who's getting a new title shot, it would be horrible.
God...Kane Vs Batista would be boring times ten.

Ermm , what makes u think that Batista will definitely win the title from HHH at WM ??

[Leslie Lee III]

Matt should beat down Kane backstage and insert himself into the match.

[Alex]

Ermm , what makes u think that Batista will definitely win the title from HHH at WM ??
Vince didn't build batista up to not have him be champ. He's played it right so far, and it would actually be a twist if Batista won, and HHH didn't cheat to win.

[marshal99]

Matt should beat down Kane backstage and insert himself into the match.

Yes , they do that and it becomes a real shoot fight between Matt & Edge with the other wrestlers trying to seperate them.




I wonder what will happen though if this whole situation turn out to be a work setup by Matt and the WWE to fool the internet news sites and fans . :eek: Imagine how people would feel if Matt were to reinsert himself into that match by taking out Kane , people would mark out and would raise the roof for Matt to kick Edge's butt for real and that alone will raise the match tempo itself and Matt's profile 100%.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Yes , they do that and it becomes a real shoot fight between Matt & Edge with the other wrestlers trying to seperate them.




I wonder what will happen though if this whole situation turn out to be a work setup by Matt and the WWE to fool the internet news sites and fans . :eek: Imagine how people would feel if Matt were to reinsert himself into that match by taking out Kane , people would mark out and would raise the roof for Matt to kick Edge's butt for real and that alone will raise the match tempo itself and Matt's profile 100%.


That was a belief at 1st. That the WWE could be working the fans with this. But reporters have said that even wrestlers have commented that It wasn't a work and that If It was , Hardy was sheduled to come back at this past RAW.

He's due back In ring March 19th. But he's been pulled from the House Show shedule as well. Plus McMahon never really has done the entire..."Lets pull one over the Internet crowd" type angles that TNA and other Promotions have done.



Its a pretty safe bet that with Batista catching fire as a hot face that thier gonna give him the World Title. This would allow him to face Edge and help keep the need for HHH to Main Event every PPV down a lot.

HHH can drift to mid-card and perhaps fued with Benjimen and Benoit In some good IC Title Matches.


Plus about Jericho. He needed a big face to fued against. HBK and him had a moment at Wrestlemania 19. The 2 put on a good close match with HBK going over and at the end the 2 shook , hug and Jericho nailed him In the balls. That was a Y2J moment.... ;)

[lboinyamouf4sho]

Its a pretty safe bet that with Batista catching fire as a hot face that thier gonna give him the World Title. This would allow him to face Edge and help keep the need for HHH to Main Event every PPV down a lot.

HHH can drift to mid-card and perhaps fued with Benjimen and Benoit In some good IC Title Matches.


)

since when has the wwe wanted to keep the need for hhh to main event every ppv down?? and did you really say hhh mid-card :eek: i don't think so, win or lose at WM hhh will be in the main event with batista for another 2 or 3 ppvs imo.

[Shade]

since when has the wwe wanted to keep the need for hhh to main event every ppv down?? and did you really say hhh mid-card :eek: i don't think so, win or lose at WM hhh will be in the main event with batista for another 2 or 3 ppvs imo.

Yeah I don't see it happening. WHEN was the last time HHH worked a program that didn't have the title attached to it? I sure as hell can't remember. You gotta remember this guy believes he is the linchpin to the WWE. If he steps into a less than main event role things won't work. He really thinks HE is the reason people tune in.

[eJm]

Yeah I don't see it happening. WHEN was the last time HHH worked a program that didn't have the title attached to it?

4 Years ago.

HHH vs. Austin (No Way Out)
HHH vs. Undertaker (Wrestlemania 17)


Those were the days.............

[Leslie Lee III]

Yes , they do that and it becomes a real shoot fight between Matt & Edge with the other wrestlers trying to seperate them.

Well I'm fairly certain that if it did happen the WWE would make sure to iron out any issues before they went through with it, and remind Matt of how much of a huge PAYDAY he'd get if he went through with it. People are really underestimating wrestlers ability to get past personal beef for a paycheck. Homocide made Steve Corino go permanently deaf in one ear, yet they were later booked in a BARB WIRE match with each other, and of course it was the main event and of course they probably both were paid nicely.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Steve Corino did a nice Interview for Between The Ropes and talked about ROH , TNA, WWE and ECW. The ECW Talk was that Steve won't be doing anything for the ECW Reunion shows. He wished that Douglas would have had a dinner and let all the ole ECW Guys talked and chatted.


He does however see this as a WWE attempt at using the ECW Talents and getting them over In that way. He talked good about ECW and company.

Said that Zero-One was 4 days away from closing up shop for good. He mused that he always seems to go to work for companies that have troubles when he gets the World Title.

Talked to Dusty Rhodes 6 months ago. He said he may have heat upstairs with some TNA Officials for doing a 29 second match at a weekly PPV awhile back! Corino said some guy asked him If he could do a 1 minute match and Steve said , " I can do a 30 second match!"

He talked about the Lita/Matt Hardy/Edge situation and said that Lita gets as much blame as Edge. He also said that he wouldn't let his gf hang around Edge as a joke. Plus said him and Matt are friends and have been for 8 years.

Great Interview check It out...


RVD and many former ECW Greats are getting geared up for the ECW Reunion PPV. The feelings backstage that the WWE will produce and make this an actual ECW PPV and let the stars go. A lot of guys are pretty happy seeing this.


Steve Austin will be on the Late Late Show on March 29th to promote Wrestlemania 21. He also will be doing Live With Regis & Kelly this month as well.


Planet Hollywood has started serving a drink called , The Scorpian King at Its restraunts. Its In honor of The Rock's 1st movie.


credit:

www.pwinsider.com
www.411mania.com
www.PWTorch.com

[hangmanjury]

FYI: Wrestling is fake. Who wins and loses is not really based on who would win or lose in a real life. That being said HBK is still in great shape, you just hate him for whatever mark reason and are (poorly) using his age to attack him. That's cool to hate him, just don't try to justify by falsely criticizing his in-ring ability or his willingness to elevate younger guys. He still puts on great matches and I don't think even one of those guys we're talking about would complain about trading victories with a legend like HBK. A legend who can still go with them and put on great matches.
You're right. I'm sick of him for mark reasons. I'm sick of the fact that he ends up looking like SUperman in his matches... look at his tag matches, especially. It's very rare that anyone holds offense against him for too long.

Of course, this could bebecause Bret was my favorite wrestler ever, and Edge is my favorite wrestler now.

So yeah, mark reasons. But that doesn't change the fact that I'm sick of him.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Randy Orton 2 years ago was In the midst of a heel push and he too went over. Micheals wins because he's a guy they can't job out. They need to make Shawn look strong , because..hell have you seen the guy? He's showing up the entire roster at the moment. Hell the guys put on a lot of 5* star matches In the last 3 years to grow his LEGEND STATUS.

I do knock Shawn at times. I feel he's fueded too much with HHH and that the finish to Royal Rumble 2004 was so god awful It had fans booing In complete anger!


5 Star matches? Shawn Michaels has NEVER been able to put on 5 star matches in his life and sure as hell not in the least 3 years. He's so past his prime, it's ridiculous. He's left in the dust by superior talent on Raw like Benoit, Benjamin, Christian, and Jericho. He needs to retire before he embarasses himself anymore.

[eJm]

5 Star matches? Shawn Michaels has NEVER been able to put on 5 star matches in his life and sure as hell not in the least 3 years. He's so past his prime, it's ridiculous. He's left in the dust by superior talent on Raw like Benoit, Benjamin, Christian, and Jericho. He needs to retire before he embarasses himself anymore.
Dude, that is so not true it isn't funny.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

FYI: Wrestling is fake. Who wins and loses is not really based on who would win or lose in a real life. That being said HBK is still in great shape, you just hate him for whatever mark reason and are (poorly) using his age to attack him. That's cool to hate him, just don't try to justify by falsely criticizing his in-ring ability or his willingness to elevate younger guys. He still puts on great matches and I don't think even one of those guys we're talking about would complain about trading victories with a legend like HBK. A legend who can still go with them and put on great matches.

Wow, your gonna tell me the ins and outs of wrestling. Will wonders never cease? Amazing. But understand this, Michaels is COMPLETELY past his prime, has horrible strikes, goofy overselling, and slow pacing in matches. For one to say he's better than the Raw roster is the most ridiculous comment I've seen posted here in quite some time. Michaels is boring right now and he has elevated no one. Make no mistake on that fact..Orton and Edge's wins over him didn't mean nothing in the end. He got the wins back weeks later. Which doesn't make sense since he's suppose to help put over younger/better wrestlers on Raw since we ALL know HHH won't. Yet he does nothing. Shawn Michaels serves no purpose. He needs to retire after WM 21. Enough is enough.

[marshal99]

Boy , no wonder u were saying that HBK & Angle is going to be upstage by Guerrero/Rey . Just because u hated Michaels that much, it pretty much is blinding u to the fact that HBK is still a pretty good wrestler and can certainly still do a great match. Don't assume that everyone else feels the same u do.

[lboinyamouf4sho]

i've always hated hbk too, but i've known he was a great wrestler for a long, long time. he is still good but i think he should put guys over a little more. never have cared for him in any role as heel or face, ever.

[GremlinClr]

Michaels is COMPLETELY past his prime

Man, that is so wrong. Was he a little quicker, maybe a little more agile say 15 years and a broken back ago? Sure. But even at his age he's better than half the RAW roster. To complian about HBK while Flair is still wheezing out there at what, 60 or close to it? Is Flair past his prime? Oh, hell yea. And you know what? I'd rather watch him than crap like Snitsky or Masters. Age means precisly dick in wrestling. Love him or hate him Micheals is still fun to watch and yes, just being in a series with him so elevates younger guys. If you can't see that, well I think you got a little mark in your eye.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Micheals ...past his prime :confused: . Yeah right..tell that to the great street fight we saw 2 weeks ago. Or the other great matches he has done since his 2002 return.


Micheals Is pretty much better than almost the entire RAW Roster. Except for Benoit and a few others who I can't think of at the moment. But Micheals can still go and Its been proven..over and over again. His match with Angle will steal the show at Wrestlemania.

[eJm]

Micheals ...past his prime :confused: . Yeah right..tell that to the great street fight we saw 2 weeks ago. Or the other great matches he has done since his 2002 return.

HBK vs. Jericho, anyone?
The 3 way from WM XX, anyone?
HBK vs. HHH Street fight, anyone?

Saying HBK has passed his prime is like saying someone who is still good is passed his prime.

[lboinyamouf4sho]

HBK vs. Jericho, anyone?
The 3 way from WM XX, anyone?
HBK vs. HHH Street fight, anyone?

Saying HBK has passed his prime is like saying someone who is still good is passed his prime.


hbk has definately passed his prime. he is still very good though. one thing i always did like about hbk was his ability to have good matches against big men. i even enjoyed his ppv match against batista awhile back

[eJm]

hbk has definately passed his prime.

That makes no sense at all.

[lboinyamouf4sho]

That makes no sense at all.


prime=at the peak of your ability, when you are at your very best. for shawn around 96 to 98ish if you ask me

[eJm]

prime=at the peak of your ability, when you are at your very best. for shawn around 96 to 98ish if you ask me
No, not that. The fact you said he's past his prime yet he's still good.

If you are past your prime, wouldn't your matches be not as good as they were or even bad?

Michaels is no way past it.

[VCreed32]

If your prime was good enough, being past it isn't all that off of a knock.
Instead of getting A+'s, you're still getting above B's.

[hangmanjury]

Just to clarify, guys: I'm not saying Michaels is a BAD wrestler, I'm not saying he puts on bad matches.

I'm just saying I'm sick of him and when people get in the ring with him, I hope he loses.

[lboinyamouf4sho]

If your prime was good enough, being past it isn't all that off of a knock.
Instead of getting A+'s, you're still getting above B's.

xactlt what i'm saying, in his prime he was great. now he is past his prime but still very good.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

The WWE and Spike TV Realtionship Is pretty much dead at the moment. Spike TV annouced today that they are ending negotations with the WWE and the TV Deal ends In September 2005.


Its been said that this move Is a huge blow to the Network because Spike TV doesn't have a show that pulls over a 3.0 Cable rating. How they replace WWE RAW and other programming will be seen.


Spike TV feels that the asking price of 40 Million was much to high considering that all of the Ratings for WWE RAW,Velocity, and Heat are down. The annoucement to the press hurts the expected raise McMahon was wanting from the USA Network.


Its believed Spike TV will use CSI New York and CSI Repeats to air like TNT has with Law & Order. So beware. If your sick of repeats...Spike TV Is prepared to repeat CSI ad neasuem til ya puke.

The WWE Is expected to sign with USA Network. TNT , FX and others have stayed out due to being not Interested In WWE Programming. Spike Is expected to air Ultimate Fighter next year but without a strong lead In of a " Male" show what will happen here ?

In one of the biggest comical annoucements , a source Inside Spike TV said that the WWE was never as strong as It was for advertisers. That Viewers may have liked It.

He also stated that Spike TV will continue to do thier own shows and move slowly from reality. Yes...Spike tv....the network that brought us Rock & Bowl , Joe Shmo , Stripperlla Is bragging about how great thier own created shows are.

You create one hit ( Ultimate Fighter) and now ya dog the show thats pretty much carried your asses for 4 years. I think Vince Is givin you the damn finger for a reason.

Spike and TNA haven't had talks yet.


credit:

www.411mania.com
www.pwinsider.com
www.insidepulse.com

[Ill Communication]

Is it too much to ask for Star Trek reruns?

[GremlinClr]

He also stated that Spike TV will continue to do thier own shows and move slowly from reality. Yes...Spike tv....the network that brought us Rock & Bowl , Joe Shmo , Stripperlla Is bragging about how great thier own created shows are.

I liked Stripperella, it was funny, in a bad TV kinda way.

[Royal]

I love how wrestling fans think that, without the help of WWE, MMA will faulter.

Stop underestimating the fanbase you guys. It's bigger than you think.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I love how wrestling fans think that, without the help of WWE, MMA will faulter.

Stop underestimating the fanbase you guys. It's bigger than you think.



The WWE Is the Ultimate Fighters big lead In. Its gonna be something to watch and see If they will be able to keep that 1.6 average thier pulling without a show with a ton of men watching.

[Leslie Lee III]

Early Saturday afternoon it was relayed to the ROH boards that Steven Richards was at the show tonite. No shocker there, as he and other WWE stars are often at ROH shows just to watch some great wrestling since they rarely have a chance to see it due to their busy work schedule. The surprise came as Stevie Night Heat superkicked CM Punk during the main event Tag Match, costing him the victory. It's also been reported that he's scheduled to make 3 appearances at upcoming ROH shows. Interesting.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Man, that is so wrong. Was he a little quicker, maybe a little more agile say 15 years and a broken back ago? Sure. But even at his age he's better than half the RAW roster. To complian about HBK while Flair is still wheezing out there at what, 60 or close to it? Is Flair past his prime? Oh, hell yea. And you know what? I'd rather watch him than crap like Snitsky or Masters. Age means precisly dick in wrestling. Love him or hate him Micheals is still fun to watch and yes, just being in a series with him so elevates younger guys. If you can't see that, well I think you got a little mark in your eye.

Shawn Michaels is better than Chris Jericho? HELL NO! Better than Christian? Not today he isn't. Better than Edge? Probably but Edge is not a great worker anyway. He onlys looks competent around great talent like Mysterio, Eddie, Benoit, and Angle. But to say that a joke like Shawn Michaels is better than the majority of the Raw roster is a crime upon itself. The guy takes up time and doesn't wrestle weekly. He's a waste of space. Of course HHH is 20x worse right now but that doesn't take away the fact that Michaels is a non-draw wasting television time.

As for Ric Flair? He was his generation's leading heel and inspiration to thousands of wrestlers of our age. He'll retire whenever he damn well pleases. He's done too much or should I say sacrificed too much to be questioned about his legacy. His promo skills make him a positive effect for Raw while Michaels beating Christian in their last two matches does nothing for him.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Boy , no wonder u were saying that HBK & Angle is going to be upstage by Guerrero/Rey . Just because u hated Michaels that much, it pretty much is blinding u to the fact that HBK is still a pretty good wrestler and can certainly still do a great match. Don't assume that everyone else feels the same u do.

First off, Marshall, Eddie Guerrero>Shawn Michaels in every aspect there is to wrestling except for maybe promo work. Ring psychology, move executions, story telling, timing, pacing, and selling. He is absolutely and utterly superior to Shawn Michaels. Even as Michaels' best, he was overrated and sure as hell wasn't in Eddie's league, so it's only natural to assume that two better workers like Eddie and Mysterio will outclass Michaels vs Angle, no matter how hard the WWE tries to hype it up. On April 3, the fans will easily be more into the Eddie/Mysterio match than the Angle/Michaels one. This isn't Rock vs Hogan here, folks.

[marshal99]

And i can bet u that fans will be more into Angle/Michaels than Rey/Eddie , we'll just have to see ,won't we ?

[lboinyamouf4sho]

And i can bet u that fans will be more into Angle/Michaels than Rey/Eddie , we'll just have to see ,won't we ?


in any other arena i'd say hbk and angle would get more attention from the crowd, but this is gonna be in socal. shit already there is billboards in L.A with pictures of eddy vs rey as if they're maineventing. eddy and rey will always get a huge fan reaction in cali because they're mexican, especialy in socal

[Leslie Lee III]

FRing psychology, move executions, story telling, timing, pacing, and selling.

Every other word you say shows that you aren't a good judge at these things at all. Let's face it, this is markhate. Two other guys were able to admit it, why can't you? It's okay. Say you don't like the little way he dances to the ring. Say you're mad that he punked out your childhood hero Marty Jannetty. Say that someone once told you to "suck it" in middle school, you didn't have a comeback, and it's bothered you all these years and you blame Michaels for it. But please don't toss out words like that as if you are really concerned about them.

[marshal99]

in any other arena i'd say hbk and angle would get more attention from the crowd, but this is gonna be in socal. shit already there is billboards in L.A with pictures of eddy vs rey as if they're maineventing. eddy and rey will always get a huge fan reaction in cali because they're mexican, especialy in socal

Maybe , there's no doubt that Eddie/Rey will be popular with the crowd but as far as the matches goes , there's no way they can top the Michaels/Angle match. Which match do u think will be better ?

[eJm]

Maybe , there's no doubt that Eddie/Rey will be popular with the crowd but as far as the matches goes , there's no way they can top the Michaels/Angle match. Which match do u think will be better ?
HBK vs. Angle

Both of them might be passed their prime but they can still pull off fine matches.

[hangmanjury]

I think HBK and Angle will be better...

But that's because I think Angle puts on the best match of the night, no matter who he's working with.

But yes, that's markitude right there.

As for what match I'll enjoy more, it all depends on who wins the Angle/Shawn match. I'm going to mark out SO much if Kurt wins.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

And i can bet u that fans will be more into Angle/Michaels than Rey/Eddie , we'll just have to see ,won't we ?

Man, I GUARANTEE the Southern California fans will be more into Eddie/Mysterio than Angle/Michaels. Cali fans don't really favor Michaels like the rest of the country and will probably cheer Angle over him. I can just hear the "Let's Go Angle" chants right now.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Every other word you say shows that you aren't a good judge at these things at all. Let's face it, this is markhate. Two other guys were able to admit it, why can't you? It's okay. Say you don't like the little way he dances to the ring. Say you're mad that he punked out your childhood hero Marty Jannetty. Say that someone once told you to "suck it" in middle school, you didn't have a comeback, and it's bothered you all these years and you blame Michaels for it. But please don't toss out words like that as if you are really concerned about them.

Markhate because I broke down Michaels' skills getting worser by the year? I think not. And please don't group me with Rocker fans. I could care less about Marty Jannety. He was a HUGE flop when he went the single's route. And as for DX? I like the NwO(the group DX copied to begin with) over a bunch of wrestling clowns that served no purpose but a bunch of silly catchphrases for little teenagers. Face the unadultered truth, Michaels is past his prime and is soaking up time that should go to a Christian or a Chris Jericho. I can't wait to see Angle make him tap out at WM 21. Thank goodness. :evilsmile

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Markhate because I broke down Michaels' skills getting worser by the year? I think not. And please don't group me with Rocker fans. I could care less about Marty Jannety. He was a HUGE flop when he went the single's route. And as for DX? I like the NwO(the group DX copied to begin with) over a bunch of wrestling clowns that served no purpose but a bunch of silly catchphrases for little teenagers. Face the unadultered truth, Michaels is past his prime and is soaking up time that should go to a Christian or a Chris Jericho. I can't wait to see Angle make him tap out at WM 21. Thank goodness. :evilsmile



Micheals Isn't the same guy he was In 1998 thats for sure. But even now he's pretty much a top guy who works his ass off and makes his matches still memborable. He's pushing 40 but hell..so was Bret Hart.

Shawn made a return many doubted he could ever make. And here he Is...3 years later still putting on good match....after good match. Micheals Is someone who has a LEGEND because watch him. The guy makes every match he's In memborable.

[Alex]

Shawn made a return many doubted he could ever make. And here he Is...3 years later still putting on good match....after good match. Micheals Is someone who has a LEGEND because watch him. The guy makes every match he's In memborable.
Matter of opinion, im completly sick of seeing him on tv. Im almost to the point where i hate seeing him almost as much as HHH.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Micheals Isn't the same guy he was In 1998 thats for sure. But even now he's pretty much a top guy who works his ass off and makes his matches still memborable. He's pushing 40 but hell..so was Bret Hart.

Shawn made a return many doubted he could ever make. And here he Is...3 years later still putting on good match....after good match. Micheals Is someone who has a LEGEND because watch him. The guy makes every match he's In memborable.

My point...he's 40 and still winning too much. He's no draw and is not equipped to a carry a era devoid of Rock/Austin. And I don't necessarily agree he puts out such memorable matches. HHH/Michaels Part 1 at Summerslam '02 was decent but a spotfest. Jericho/Michaels was a match with good all around work but the crowd was popping for Jericho doing all of Michaels' moves. Next to Rocky and Angle, Jericho was the MVP at WM 19. As for the already overrated streetfight with Michaels/Edge? It took weapons and stipulations to get Michaels involved in a semi-interesting match. I'll take Benoit/Benjamin in a 20 minute pure wrestling match over a Michaels' spotfest anyday of the week.

[Leslie Lee III]

I'll take Benoit/Benjamin in a 20 minute pure wrestling match over a Michaels' spotfest anyday of the week.

Now why should we believe you can call any match a "spotfest" when you believe that The Rock is "god?" You've seen me use the word I'm sure, but you clearly are using it improperly when you try to call out Michaels for it. He's put on tons of great wrestling matches, just because one involves a weapon doesn't mean it's a spotfest. You can use everything but the kitchen sink and still have a match that makes sense and has a flow and builds up. And when has Benjamin ever had a 20 minute match? Yeah, I'd rather see Bret Hart come out of retirement and wrestle every night than see Heidenreich, but it's not an actual choice between the two.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

My point...he's 40 and still winning too much. He's no draw and is not equipped to a carry a era devoid of Rock/Austin. And I don't necessarily agree he puts out such memorable matches. HHH/Michaels Part 1 at Summerslam '02 was decent but a spotfest. Jericho/Michaels was a match with good all around work but the crowd was popping for Jericho doing all of Michaels' moves. Next to Rocky and Angle, Jericho was the MVP at WM 19. As for the already overrated streetfight with Michaels/Edge? It took weapons and stipulations to get Michaels involved in a semi-interesting match. I'll take Benoit/Benjamin in a 20 minute pure wrestling match over a Michaels' spotfest anyday of the week.


To each his own. You believe he uses weapons In spot fests or needs the weapons to have awesome matches. But Micheals has put on some classic matches that has blew fans away.

Its why most still chant his name. Its why he's revered so much by the roster and why Flair said he Is.." The Man". Micheals maybe 40 , but you ask any WWE wrestler...he can still be a SHOWSTOPPA.

Thats why he's used so much In my Fantasy Smackdown thread I run.

[Alex]

Its why most still chant his name. Its why he's revered so much by the roster and why Flair said he Is.." The Man". Micheals maybe 40 , but you ask any WWE wrestler...he can still be a SHOWSTOPPA.
.
They ddint seem to exciting during his promo monday night, and the only reason there was reaction at the end was because of angle.

[Leslie Lee III]

They ddint seem to exciting during his promo monday night, and the only reason there was reaction at the end was because of angle.

I just think the speakers on your TV are broken. You seem to always hear boos really loud and cheers really faint, especially when wrestlers you don't like are on.

[Leslie Lee III]

Punk has a little fun with Stevie, moments before he is BETRAYED AND STEVIEKICKED IN THE FACE!

http://www.stevierichards.com/polishammer.jpg

God Stevie, can't you take a joke?

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Now why should we believe you can call any match a "spotfest" when you believe that The Rock is "god?" You've seen me use the word I'm sure, but you clearly are using it improperly when you try to call out Michaels for it. He's put on tons of great wrestling matches, just because one involves a weapon doesn't mean it's a spotfest. You can use everything but the kitchen sink and still have a match that makes sense and has a flow and builds up. And when has Benjamin ever had a 20 minute match? Yeah, I'd rather see Bret Hart come out of retirement and wrestle every night than see Heidenreich, but it's not an actual choice between the two.

The Rock is the GREATEST sports entertainer in history. He made new stars by losing/jobbing, he had more crowd participation in his matches than anyone of his era, he redefined the heel role, and is the biggest mainstream star from today's wrestling era. In essence, he's a wrestling god.

Benjamin's match against Christian at Survivor Series '04 leaves any of Shawn Michaels work except the ones I mentioned in the damn dust. Benjamin is the best pure wrestler on Raw. Michaels is sloppy every week and can't even nip up correctly. As shown YET again ths past Monday in his tag match with Jannetty.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

To each his own. You believe he uses weapons In spot fests or needs the weapons to have awesome matches. But Micheals has put on some classic matches that has blew fans away.

Its why most still chant his name. Its why he's revered so much by the roster and why Flair said he Is.." The Man". Micheals maybe 40 , but you ask any WWE wrestler...he can still be a SHOWSTOPPA.

Thats why he's used so much In my Fantasy Smackdown thread I run.

They also chant "You Screwed Bret" at him whenever he gets a little TOO annoying. He did a promo with Edge in Fort Launderdale, FL a couple of months ago and the crowd chanted "You Screwed Bret" to shut his sorry ass up. It was a great sight. Michaels is overrated to the Nth degree. And he is CERTAINLY not in the league of a Benoit, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio, or Shelton Benjamin. Too slow, bad transistions, oversells, and ineffective striking. Michaels needs to retire. He serves no purpose.

[Leslie Lee III]

The Rock is the GREATEST sports entertainer in history. He made new stars by losing/jobbing, he had more crowd participation in his matches than anyone of his era, he redefined the heel role, and is the biggest mainstream star from today's wrestling era. In essence, he's a wrestling god.

Benjamin's match against Christian at Survivor Series '04 leaves any of Shawn Michaels work except the ones I mentioned in the damn dust. Benjamin is the best pure wrestler on Raw. Michaels is sloppy every week and can't even nip up correctly. As shown YET again ths past Monday in his tag match with Jannetty.

HBK is a much crisper wrestler even now than your precious Rock ever was at any point in his career. Talk about sloppy, you ever saw his sharpshooter? Markhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate.

[hangmanjury]

I agree with both points.

HBK IS a better wrestler than Rock, in the pure sense of the word.

The Rock's a better performer, and even though he's not the most technically sound guy in the ring, he brings to it an energy that hardly anyone does.

I wasn't sick of Shawn this week. Good to see the Rockers again. "Hey Shawn, what's up? You know, I've forgotten that time you kicked me through the window and left my career in the dust...."

[Erik Lehnsherr]

HBK is a much crisper wrestler even now than your precious Rock ever was at any point in his career. Talk about sloppy, you ever saw his sharpshooter? Markhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate.

Not really. The Rock was 275lbs during his full time schedule. It made sense he would literally beat the crap out of small guys like a Shawn Michaels. He was a brawler. No technical wrestler and no reason to be. His mic skills were godly and redefined how to get wrestlers over in this industry. It's funny you saw that about his sharpshooter yet it still got HUGE pops. Bigger pops than the majority of Michaels' moveset.

[Leslie Lee III]

Not really. The Rock was 275lbs during his full time schedule. It made sense he would literally beat the crap out of small guys like a Shawn Michaels. He was a brawler. No technical wrestler and no reason to be. His mic skills were godly and redefined how to get wrestlers over in this industry. It's funny you saw that about his sharpshooter yet it still got HUGE pops. Bigger pops than the majority of Michaels' moveset.

Oh, now you're embracing markitude by putting all the focus on crowd reaction, which of course leans towards markitude. That being said, I'm fairly sure the Sweet Chin Music gets about as loud a reaction as almost anything else. It's just becoming even more obvious now that you diss HBK for supposedly being sloppy, when The Rock is so obviously sloppy. You don't have to be a technical wrestler to perform moves with precision, one has nothing to do with the other. And I don't mind any wrestler being sloppy or loose if they aren't hurting anyone, it's just that you aren't even trying to hide your hypocrisy now. Let go. It's okay. Say it, "My name is __________, and I markhate Shawn Michaels."

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Oh, now you're embracing markitude by putting all the focus on crowd reaction, which of course leans towards markitude. That being said, I'm fairly sure the Sweet Chin Music gets about as loud a reaction as almost anything else. It's just becoming even more obvious now that you diss HBK for supposedly being sloppy, when The Rock is so obviously sloppy. You don't have to be a technical wrestler to perform moves with precision, one has nothing to do with the other. And I don't mind any wrestler being sloppy or loose if they aren't hurting anyone, it's just that you aren't even trying to hide your hypocrisy now. Let go. It's okay. Say it, "My name is __________, and I markhate Shawn Michaels."

First off, I don't recognize your self created word of "markitude". Using Matt Hardy terms isn't impressive, Leslie. The proper term in wrestling circles is "markism" but I digress. The Sweet Chin Music your glorifying got booed against Benoit at WM XX. Remember? It doesn't get as big a pop as Cena's FU, Undertaker's Tombstone, and sure as HELL nothing the Rock does. Get realistic. As for the Rock being sloppy? Yeah I guess that why he dominated his last two WM matches while Michaels got destroyed and looked slower than ever in his two matches with Jericho and Benoit/HHH.

[Leslie Lee III]

The Sweet Chin Music your glorifying got booed against Benoit at WM XX.

And the Rock got booed against Hogan, what's the point? Do you not understand that in some matches people boo? Are you actually going to lie and say that the whole crowd doesn't get into the whole SCM deal?

As for the Rock being sloppy? Yeah I guess that why he dominated his last two WM matches while Michaels got destroyed and looked slower than ever in his two matches with Jericho and Benoit/HHH.

Again, WRESTLING IS FAKE. The Rock "dominated" and Michaels was "destroyed" because they and their oppoents pretended this was happening. The Rock always was sloppy when it came to executing moves, you're full of crap on this. I love how you can go from, "HBK has poor executes his strikes poorly, has bad psychology, etc." to "Well Benoit beat him up at Wrestlemania!" It's becoming more mark by the second. Judging everything on crowd reaction and talking about what happens in the matches as of they are real are the foundations of markitude.

[sir_snikt'alot]

niether hbk or rock are sloppy,they are both known as the best perfomers/entertainers in pro wrestling,both were incredible performers in ring,the audience fed off the rock and hbk and they fed off the audience.

both great mike skills

both great wrestlers/performers

neither of them are sloppy.

if you want sloppy watch ring of honour or czw,now thats sloppy.

[Leslie Lee III]

niether hbk or rock are sloppy,they are both known as the best perfomers/entertainers in pro wrestling,both were incredible performers in ring,the audience fed off the rock and hbk and they fed off the audience.

both great mike skills

both great wrestlers/performers

neither of them are sloppy.

if you want sloppy watch ring of honour or czw,now thats sloppy.

Wow, you have no idea what we are talking about. And you think guys like Low Ki, American Dragon, Christopher Daniels, AJ Styles are sloppy you have no idea what you are talking about.

[eJm]

Wow, you have no idea what we are talking about. And you think guys like Low Ki, American Dragon, Christopher Daniels, AJ Styles are sloppy you have no idea what you are talking about.
Have to agree with Leslie at that one.

Calling those guys sloppy is like saying Steven Richards is the greatest living wrestler in the world today.

[sir_snikt'alot]

Wow, you have no idea what we are talking about. And you think guys like Low Ki, American Dragon, Christopher Daniels, AJ Styles are sloppy you have no idea what you are talking about.

minus aj styles,fallen angel and low ki,everyone else are just sloppy spot guys,the special k are just a bunch of no-name spot-festers who leap around,and everyone else is either to fat or not good enough,none of them could pull off an iron man match or put on match of the year type matches minus the three ive excluded.

and they take normal moves like piledrivers and get up 3 seconds later,its stupid.

[Leslie Lee III]

minus aj styles,fallen angel and low ki,everyone else are just sloppy spot guys,the special k are just a bunch of no-name spot-festers who leap around,and everyone else is either to fat or not good enough,none of them could pull off an iron man match or put on match of the year type matches minus the three ive excluded.

and they take normal moves like piledrivers and get up 3 seconds later,its stupid.

You just called American Dragon a spot wrestler? Wow, that's the most clueless statement I've ever read.

Special K are also low card jobbers who are one step above the students. Judging all of the ROH locker room on them is like judging Chris Benoit on Gene Snitsky, you don't know shit man. Punk's never put on an hour long match of the year candidate? Oh wait, he did that twice just last year with Samoa Joe. He's done it before with Chis Hero. AmDrag did 75 minutes with Austin Aries in another Match of the Year Candidate. And let's not forget the great feud Samoa Joe had. Or the Briscoe Bros. Or Colt Cabana. Or Alex Shelley. Or Jack Evans who for all intents and purposes should be nothing but a spot machine, but is actually able to incoporate his amazing athletic ability into good matches.

Not to mention, you haven't said one word to show how any of these guys are "sloppy." I don't think you even know what the word means in the context we're using it. The Rock IS sloppy, but I don't think it matters. You don't have to be the most graceful or crispest wrestler to be one of the best. It's like you people hear some fans use words and you just repeat them without properly grasping their meaning.

[sir_snikt'alot]

You just called American Dragon a spot wrestler? Wow, that's the most clueless statement I've ever read.

Special K are also low card jobbers who are one step above the students. Judging all of the ROH locker room on them is like judging Chris Benoit on Gene Snitsky, you don't know shit man. Punk's never put on an hour long match of the year candidate? Oh wait, he did that twice just last year with Samoa Joe. He's done it before with Chis Hero. AmDrag did 75 minutes with Austin Aries in another Match of the Year Candidate. And let's not forget the great feud Samoa Joe had. Or the Briscoe Bros. Or Colt Cabana. Or Alex Shelley. Or Jack Evans who for all intents and purposes should be nothing but a spot machine, but is actually able to incoporate his amazing athletic ability into good matches.

Not to mention, you haven't said one word to show how any of these guys are "sloppy." I don't think you even know what the word means in the context we're using it. The Rock IS sloppy, but I don't think it matters. You don't have to be the most graceful or crispest wrestler to be one of the best. It's like you people hear some fans use words and you just repeat them without properly grasping their meaning.


ring of honour wrestlers are piss poor compared to tna and wwe,most matches look like fricking circus acts,scramble matches are completely sloppy mishmashes,you cant even tell whats going on most of the time,all the do is do shitloads of sick moves so the audience goes 'ooooohhh',only the sick moves dont actually look like they hurt as the other guy is up in twenty seconds,ring of honour is the reason wrestling is seen as fake,because its so beyong reality its a joke.

go watch your spotfests and ill watch quality wwe and tna matches,cause id rather see jeff jarret vs kevin nash than b-boy or dizzy or any of those shitters spinning around like jackasses,cause the x-devision would own them.

[Leslie Lee III]

ring of honour wrestlers are piss poor compared to tna and wwe,most matches look like fricking circus acts,scramble matches are completely sloppy mishmashes,you cant even tell whats going on most of the time,all the do is do shitloads of sick moves so the audience goes 'ooooohhh',only the sick moves dont actually look like they hurt as the other guy is up in twenty seconds,ring of honour is the reason wrestling is seen as fake,because its so beyong reality its a joke.

go watch your spotfests and ill watch quality wwe and tna matches,cause id rather see jeff jarret vs kevin nash than b-boy or dizzy or any of those shitters spinning around like jackasses,cause the x-devision would own them.

You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about or what Ring of Honor is about. First of all, everyone worth a damn in the X-Division has been in Ring of Honor and they've put on their best matches IN Ring of Honor. ROH is constantly praised for it's PURE wrestling matches and it's lack of TV crap and keeping spot fests to a minimum, instead of making them the entire appeal of the show like TNA does. If you think TNA isn't a bunch of spotfests you've already proved you don't know what the word "spotfest" means. Dizzy is a friggin low carder, a jobber if you will. If that's the only name you can come up with from ROH, you really show how ignorant you are. B-Boy is not an ROH regular, and he is far from a spot wrestler. He's much more strong style, do you even know what strong style is?

Ring of Honor is constantly praised for treating wrestling as a serious sport. They even have a title called the "Pure" title. You are just plain ignorant of it. You probably saw one scramble cage match and that's all you're going on. Even worse, you think we're stupid enough not to know. I know you're full of it, and anyone who watches ROH knows you're full of it. Ricky Steamboat knows you're full of it as he compared the Punk vs Joe series to his classic series with Flair. NOAH knows you're full of it, as they continue to book ROH wrestlers for tours in their incredibly pure promotion. Chris Benoit knows you're full of it, as he has given lots of praise to American Dragon. It would take me about 30 minutes to upload a match to make you look like a moron, but it's probably not even worth it.

[VCreed32]

Going to pull a Greg hereYou have absolutely no clue what you're talking about or what Ring of Honor is about.
Why don't you just leave it at that?

[sir_snikt'alot]

You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about or what Ring of Honor is about. First of all, everyone worth a damn in the X-Division has been in Ring of Honor and they've put on their best matches IN Ring of Honor. ROH is constantly praised for it's PURE wrestling matches and it's lack of TV crap and keeping spot fests to a minimum, instead of making them the entire appeal of the show like TNA does. If you think TNA isn't a bunch of spotfests you've already proved you don't know what the word "spotfest" means. Dizzy is a friggin low carder, a jobber if you will. If that's the only name you can come up with from ROH, you really show how ignorant you are. B-Boy is not an ROH regular, and he is far from a spot wrestler. He's much more strong style, do you even know what strong style is?

Ring of Honor is constantly praised for treating wrestling as a serious sport. They even have a title called the "Pure" title. You are just plain ignorant of it. You probably saw one scramble cage match and that's all you're going on. Even worse, you think we're stupid enough not to know. I know you're full of it, and anyone who watches ROH knows you're full of it. Ricky Steamboat knows you're full of it as he compared the Punk vs Joe series to his classic series with Flair. NOAH knows you're full of it, as they continue to book ROH wrestlers for tours in their incredibly pure promotion. Chris Benoit knows you're full of it, as he has given lots of praise to American Dragon. It would take me about 30 minutes to upload a match to make you look like a moron, but it's probably not even worth it.


yeah im full of it alright,full of laughter reading your feeble attempts to show the world that roh is actually capable of being on the same level as wwe and tna.

if you think that your the one thats full of it.

[Leslie Lee III]

yeah im full of it alright,full of laughter reading your feeble attempts to show the world that roh is actually capable of being on the same level as wwe and tna.

Well considering that AJ Styles himself just last week, after apologizing for how bad the upcoming TNA PPV was, said that ROH was the place to be and that he missed it. When asked who outside of the X-Division would he like to work with, the first two names he said were, you guessed it, ROH stars. He said he'd want Joe and Punk in TNA and getting pushed for the heavyweight title. But I guess you can still tell yourself that Jarrett vs Former NWO/DX Member with 5 run-ins is better if you'd like :)

[sir_snikt'alot]

Well considering that AJ Styles himself just last week, after apologizing for how bad the upcoming TNA PPV was, said that ROH was the place to be and that he missed it. When asked who outside of the X-Division would he like to work with, the first two names he said were, you guessed it, ROH stars. He said he'd want Joe and Punk in TNA and getting pushed for the heavyweight title. But I guess you can still tell yourself that Jarrett vs Former NWO/DX Member with 5 run-ins is better if you'd like :)

i always did like dx :D

[Erik Lehnsherr]

And the Rock got booed against Hogan, what's the point? Do you not understand that in some matches people boo? Are you actually going to lie and say that the whole crowd doesn't get into the whole SCM deal?



Again, WRESTLING IS FAKE. The Rock "dominated" and Michaels was "destroyed" because they and their oppoents pretended this was happening. The Rock always was sloppy when it came to executing moves, you're full of crap on this. I love how you can go from, "HBK has poor executes his strikes poorly, has bad psychology, etc." to "Well Benoit beat him up at Wrestlemania!" It's becoming more mark by the second. Judging everything on crowd reaction and talking about what happens in the matches as of they are real are the foundations of markitude.

Except the Rock can go back to Canada and make the crowd ballistic. Michaels can't. He tainted his worth in the business by his own idiocy. And your odd love for Michaels' sloppy work is funny. Michaels was second rate to Bret, Austin, Hogan, and Rocky. Always has been and always will be.

[Pól Rua]

For Chrissakes, take it to Rumbles.
They eat this crap up.

Seriously.
We have a board specifically designed for 'who would beat who' arguments.
This is tiresome, unproductive, and repetitive. You both have opinions. You're not listening to each other and no progress is getting made.

[Leslie Lee III]

Again, fall back on crowd reaction instead of talking actual wrestling. Maaaaaaaarkhaaaaaaaaaaaaate.

We have a board specifically designed for 'who would beat who' arguments.

No one's talking about who could beat who. And I'll listen to anyone saying something remotely sane. And really, how vain would it be for me to start thread just so I can flaunt how right I am?

[sir_snikt'alot]

Again, fall back on crowd reaction instead of talking actual wrestling. Maaaaaaaarkhaaaaaaaaaaaaate.



No one's talking about who could beat who. And I'll listen to anyone saying something remotely sane. And really, how vain would it be for me to start thread just so I can flaunt how right I am?

the rock has been in a 60 minute iron man match with triple h,a ladder match with triple h,a hell in the cell match,and had a classic wrestlemania fight with hulk hogan,where he actually made the old man look good.

shawn micheals has had an iron man match with bret hart,a ladder match with razor ramon,a hell in a cell with taker,and had a classic wrestlemania match against triple h and chris benoit.

they're both great performers and entertainers.

the rock is athletic,looked good in the ring,and could make moves look genuine,the same goes for hbk,theyre is hardly any difference between them.

if you think rocky is sloppy then your an idiot because i have seen his matches from 99' to 2000 and beyond and he has never been sloppy,hell he kept wwe afloat while austin was away with injury,so respect the man.

oh and if you call me a mark after this it just shows you cant counteract my points.

[Leslie Lee III]

if you think rocky is sloppy then your an idiot because i have seen his matches from 99' to 2000 and beyond and he has never been sloppy,hell he kept wwe afloat while austin was away with injury,so respect the man.

It's clear you don't know what the word "sloppy" even refers to, as being in an Iron Match with HHH has NOTHING to do with being sloppy. Hell, CM Punk is quite loose and he's had 90 minute matches before. You don't know what you're talking about, you don't even know what we're talking about. I don't know why you're even trying to jump in.

[sir_snikt'alot]

It's clear you don't know what the word "sloppy" even refers to, as being in an Iron Match with HHH has NOTHING to do with being sloppy. Hell, CM Punk is quite loose and he's had 90 minute matches before. You don't know what you're talking about, you don't even know what we're talking about. I don't know why you're even trying to jump in.

ok chuckles enlighten me on how the rock is 'sloppy'?

does he eat sloppy?

does he walk sloppy?

explain ? or will my brain be to feeble to understand your supreme wrestling knowledge?

[Leslie Lee III]

or will my brain be to feeble to understand your supreme wrestling knowledge?

Probably. Tell me, why are you responding when you don't even know what we're talking about? You haven't said one thing to indicate you know what "sloppy" refers to yet, so you tell me.

[sir_snikt'alot]

Probably. Tell me, why are you responding when you don't even know what we're talking about? You haven't said one thing to indicate you know what "sloppy" refers to yet, so you tell me.

dude your so far up your own ass its rediculas,i asked a simple question and you cant answer it,i asume you refer to the rock being sloppy as a wrestler,when he is indeed not.

oh and you asked why am i butting in the discussion.....

BECAUSE ITS A DISCUSSION FORUM YOU ASSCLOWN,I CAN GET INVOLVED IN ANY DISCUSSION I WANT!

[Leslie Lee III]

I CAN GET INVOLVED IN ANY DISCUSSION I WANT!

Yes you can, but the question is should you? It's obvious you don't even know what we mean when we say "sloppy", so you have nothing to add and no reason to join in. Yet you still chose to, and now you want me to explain it to you? Hilarious. How about this, next time you aren't clear on a word meaning, ASK first when it means THEN try to say someone is an idiot for applying that word to a certain person.

[Shade]

Pol is right, you guys are so intent on being "right" you aren't even listening or considering other opinions. By the way that is what we all have, opinions and we all see things in different ways. So this whole bullshit of some being a "mark" is a load of crap. I know the inferrence is that a "mark" is someone who is gulibile or naive about how wrestling works but thats poop. It's a stupid term because all of us are fans and don't know any where near what we wish we did.

The Rock was amazing. In the ring he was strong but no where near what he was on the mic or as a personality. In the ring he WAS "sloppy". He was no where near as tight as a Benoit, Jericho, Michaels or Benjamin. His style was loose and less crisp than others. That's not a bad thing as different styles work for different characters. Much like Micheals he was able to adapt his style to work with any kind of opponent and put on strong matches.Rock was able to lose to opponents without looking weak and elevating the other person at the same time. (Hell one of my favorite moments was when Rock put over Hurricane in 2003).
Michaels on the other had hasn't done as much to put over other workers "clean" in my opinion. I mean the few times he HAS lost to other guys it's either in a 3-way work or there is cheating or outside interferrence of some sort. Never clean from what I can recall.

So IN ring work I give the nod to Michaels. As an entertainer and performer I give the nod to Rock for his ability to ALWAYS be entertaining and look good despite win or loss.

[Leslie Lee III]

In the ring he WAS "sloppy". He was no where near as tight as a Benoit, Jericho, Michaels or Benjamin. His style was loose and less crisp than others. That's not a bad thing

It's definitely not a bad thing, I love how the Rock just tosses and flails around with his belly to belly and samoan drops and what not, and I don't mind his way off sharpshooters (I like the tribute to the Harts). It's just little ridiculous to hate on Michaels for being sloppy, while saying the Rock is god. That's not based on actual matches, that's not an honest opinion of the facts presented, that's about loving/hating certain characters and overexaggerating the positives of the characters you like/negatives of the characters you don't like. That's mark.

[hangmanjury]

Well, I've admitted to my dislike of Shawn being markhate, but I'll be honest with you: I like it. I like marking out, and being surprised. When I lived in the Philippines, and Raw was two weeks late, I always looked through spoilers, but then I stopped because I love being a mark. Although now I look at it with sort of a writers' point of view, I still want to mark out and favor certain wrestlers, such as Edge, Christian, Benoit over others such as Shawn, Trips, and Snitsky.

I guess I draw the "mark" line at Chris Jericho. I love Jericho and if I were a full fledged mark, I'd want him to be the world champion, but the "smart" in me says (backstage politics aside) that the world champion should be held by someone whose character could really define the belt, while at the same time, the belt defines that character. Jericho does not do that; he is already, I hazard, the most over man on Raw - or at least the most stable in terms of getting a fan reaction - and he can switch to heel or face and get any kind of reaction he wants. Plus, being that over, I know I wouldn't really be pushing for more pressure by getting the world title. By keeping the world title off of him, you can have a world title storyline as well as a compelling storyline that he carries, and it's easier to fill up air time. Kind of like the Undertaker.

[Leslie Lee III]

Well, I've admitted to my dislike of Shawn being markhate, but I'll be honest with you: I like it.

That's fine, nothing wrong with being a mark. I just hate when people put down the actual wrestling ability of guys for everything other than their actual wrestling ability. I dislike Benoit as a face. Benjamin sucks on the mic. London's new character is lame. Has nothing to do with wrestling though as all these guys are very good. On the flip side, I love Cena's character, and JBL's but I can admit when they are lackin