Marvel Star Wars- Why No Return Of The Jedi?

[Matt_K]

Reading the complete run of Marvel's Star Wars series, I note with some puzzlement that it contains no Return Of The Jedi adaptation. The events of both A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back are faithfully chronicled but ROTJ is skipped despite the comic having printed at the time and after that film. Events in ROTJ are referred to and suddenly slotted into the comic's continuity, they're just never shown in the comic. Which annoys me as I was quite looking forward to seeing Jabba and the sand pit and the ewoks and all that. So what happened?
Did Marvel not have the rights to that film? Then how come they could refer to its characters and events? I know Marvel lost its SW franchise voluntarily (they canceled the comic due to flagging sales at #107 and then later sold it off to Dark Horse) so I doubt this is some case of LEC taking it away from them but I could be wrong... It could be they just chose not to do it, but why? It would've been an obvious tie-in and sales booster to revivify the series' market presence.
Someone explain?

[Shellhead]

I blame the Ewoks. ;)

[crankyoldman]

For some reason, not sure why, Marvel published Return of the Jedi separately from their monthly Star Wars series, as a four-issue mini-series. (Although, really, all the movie adaptations appeared in so many different formats, I'm not sure it WAS designed as a four-issue series of anything - but that's how it found its way into standard monthly format).

I'm guessing that they just hadn't thought of the idea back when Empire Strikes Back came out, but by the time of the third film, they decided to have two monthly Star Wars titles coming out at the same time during the film's release, one adapting the movie, one being the regular title.

As for the first film, the series obviously began as an adaptation of the movie, then continued with further issues when sales proved strong (exceptionally strong, from what I gather - I've heard it said that Marvel Comics would not still be around today if not for their little part of cashing in on the unexpected merchandising bonanza the first film generated.)

[Matt_K]

Yeah I knew that Marvel had no intention of SW being an ongoing when they printed the original A New Hope adaptation but it sold so stupidly well that they begged LEC to make up their own crap and keep producing it monthly.
And boy did they make up their own crap, if I can divert this into a general Marvel Star Wars discussion now my questions been answered. It's a pretty good comic but a lot of stuff in there just ain't Star Wars. A seven foot tall green kung fu fighting carniverous rabbit? A pink telepathic rabbit named Plif being a major figure in the Rebel Alliance? And what's the deal with rabbits anyway?

[Roquefort Raider]

Both The empire strikes back and return of the jedi were published in the glossy Marvel super special magazine ("return" was issue #27).

The material from the "Empire" adaptation was reprinted in the regular Star Wars book (that's why there's a sudden change in artists and storytelling pace).
As Crankyoldman already said, the material from the "Return" adaptation was reprinted as a four issue mini-series that ran concomitantly with the regular book. Since there was not enough material in the magazine to fill four issues, the mini-series has a lot of splash pages inserted here and there (and they're obviously not by Williamson and Garzon who did the rest of the art).

For my part, I would have stuck to the regular book. I'm sure that there are lots of caveats I'm not aware of when it comes to adapting movies to comics, though. For example, it would have been nice to have the Star Wars comic slowly set up the scene for the movie adaptations, but that would have required Lucasfilm to give the plot to Marvel many months in advance, something which is of course not possible. Likewise, for the comic adaptations to sell ma$$ively to people who don't usually buy comics, they had to be published more or less at the same time as the movie releases.

I really loved Marvel's Star Wars. It remains the "true" version for me.

[Sean Dulaney]

I'm guessing that they just hadn't thought of the idea back when Empire Strikes Back came out, but by the time of the third film, they decided to have two monthly Star Wars titles coming out at the same time during the film's release, one adapting the movie, one being the regular title.

That's pretty much it. By 1983, the four issue mini-series was still new but had proven to be a nice boost to the bottom line, a good way to guage interest in a potential series and a way to keep trademarks renewed. (Hawkeye, Hercules, West Coast Avengers) In the case of RotJ, it was a perfect addition seeing as how they had created multiple reprint versions of the other two movies. This way, the creative team on the regular SW book would be able to keep doing what they were doing without having to stop current storylines or make the shoehorn-ing of the set up for Jedi continuity so obvious AND STILL benefit from the increased interested Jedi would generate. At the same time Marvel would benefit by having two Star Wars comic books on the stands through the summer...the adaption doing as well as, if not better than, the regular book and probably better in the long run than the Super Special version. (Not to mention the eventual "bagged" set that would turn up at K-Mart and Toys R Us stores. No doubt they would do better with a RotJ logo on the covers than just the old Star Wars logo.)

[Chris CCL]

CHRONO-SETTING:
Issues #1-6 adapt SW:ANH
Issues #7-38 take place between SW:ANH and SW:ESB
NOTE: issue #17 flashback takes place SW:ANH
NOTE: issue #24 takes place after issue #15
Issues #39-45 adapt Star Wars: Episode V—The Empire Strikes Back
Issues #46-80, 83, & 86 take place between SW:ESB and SW:ROTJ
Issues #81-82, 84-85, & 87-107 take place during the one-month period after SW:ROTJ
* Annual 1 takes place between 32 and 33; Annual 2 between 65 and 66; Annual 3 between 78 and 79.

[nweathington]

The creative team had to “make up their own crap” because Lucasfilm wouldn't let them advance the characters in any significant way. That's why the first few issues focus on Han and Chewie doing their thing. That's why other characters (like the rabbits) were brought in.

As for the change in art teams, Lucas is a big fan of Al Williamson's sci-fi art (his Flash Gordon work in particular) and that's who he asked for to draw the adaptations.

Since it is relevant to the discussion, I'd like to mention that Back Issue #9, which comes out in a couple of weeks, has an excellent article dealing with the Marvel Star Wars series. It goes into all the constraints the writers had to work around.

[Matt_K]

That inability to advance the plot really comes up regarding Han Solo after Empire Strikes Back. They keep searching for him then dropping it totally then suddenly remembering him but never making any progress. It's obviously because LEC had told them they couldn't or they'd screw up ROTJ.

[Roquefort Raider]

That inability to advance the plot really comes up regarding Han Solo after Empire Strikes Back. They keep searching for him then dropping it totally then suddenly remembering him but never making any progress. It's obviously because LEC had told them they couldn't or they'd screw up ROTJ.

Strangely enough, the run between Empire and Jedi is my favorite one. It had Luke developing a new love interest, Vader planting a mole in the rebellion, the rebels finding a new base, and excellent characterization. It didn't deal heavily in the Force and jedi shenanigans, but maintained a good rythm. I had been afraid that the book couldn't maintain my interest with such a major character as Han missing, but was very happy to be proven wrong.

(There was also a lot of humor, something that's more or less lacking in newer Star Wars fare).


Cheers!

- Ben

[Matt_K]

Well they didn't really miss Han, they just subbed Lando in to more or less be the same character.

[Dizzy D]

Marvel's Star Wars was a really mixed bag: there were some very good stories and some very bad stories... pretty much the same as the Dark Horse Star Wars stories.

I have to read through them again, but they did have the best storylines between ESB and ROTJ: I think the story with the Tarkin: the Deathstar's main weapon with forcefields around it as some type of new Deathstar is one of my favourites. The Shira Brie-stories were also well done.

Things I didn't like so much: dumbing down of Stormtroopers and Empire pilots. Yes, they weren't exceptionally clever in the movies, but they were really, really stupid in the comics (so much that one of the writers was calling one of them Turk, after the legendary Daredevil 'villain'.)

I also like how the current Star Wars comics/games etc. do keep certain aspects of the Marvel Star Wars comics.

[Matt_K]

It also gets a bit sitcom/farce like in later days and the comic goes downhill after ROTJ because there's a gaping hole in the atmosphere where Vader used to be.

[Christopher Burton]

And what's the deal with rabbits anyway?

You might even say, "What's up, doc?" :D

Marvel did some wacky stuff in the Star Wars series, but I loved it all, no matter what because those were the days when it was all still a mystery. How did Vader become Vader? What exactly happened to the Jedi? The comic series didn't answer these questions, but it tided us over until the next movie. If there was a green rabbit named Jaxxon or pink rabbit named Plif, well, that was okay because we were still getting Luke and Han and Leia and Vader in regular adventures.

If it hadn't been for Star Wars, I might not be the comic book fan I am today.

[Ryno]

The Marvel run was wildly uneven but such a part of my childhood that I went back and completed the run.

[fumetti]

If you read the run between 7-38 as a comic NOT connected to the movies, and you don't mind Infantino's art, you'll find it's a pretty entertaining sci-fi comic.

Marvel's Star Wars was a bridge for my return to reading comics. I'd read them from about '73 to 77, then dropped them for sci-fi mags (I was a complete Star Wars nutcase!), and came back to comics in 1981 with Star Wars #51. Then completed my run from #1-50.

I read the series until just after ROTJ when everything went south. The book past that point is HORRENDOUS. I don't recommend anything past #81 or so.

The period between ESB and ROTJ are the best. Good writing and great art. Frenz and Palmer were superb. Simonson was great, too.

Publishing the ROTJ adaptation as a separate LS was--if nothing else--a chance to sell two SW comics a month that summer.

[Christopher Burton]

If you read the run between 7-38 as a comic NOT connected to the movies, and you don't mind Infantino's art, you'll find it's a pretty entertaining sci-fi comic.

Infantino was great. Looking back on Star Wars comics as a whole, he's an oddball choice and somewhat stylistically deviant. But I thought those were fun issues. I appreciated the attempt to introduce a new villain in Baron Tagge. I wish more had been done with Crimson Jack, too.

I read the series until just after ROTJ when everything went south. The bo ok past that point is HORRENDOUS. I don't recommend anything past #81 or so.

I agree it had jumped the shark at that point becoming nothing more than a sit com really. But, to me, those issues still have their charm. As a young lad of 11 or 12, I was intrigued by the thought of life outside the Star Wars galaxy. That had never occurred to me before. Of course, it was attempted with much greater success, I think, in a subsequent prose novel (I forget which one, now). Even weirder than Infantino was the choice of artist during that run. Who was it -- with the minimalist style?

The period between ESB and ROTJ are the best. Good writing and great art. Frenz and Palmer were superb. Simonson was great, too.

This is my favorite section of the Marvel Star Wars series. The stories were a little less hokey than the pre-ESB issues and way less hokey than the post-ROTJ issues. They actually took themselves somewhat seriously and Simonson's art is some of my favorite in all of Star Wars comics. My favorite storyline was Luke, Lando, Lobot, and Shira Brie on Cloud City/Bespin. That was fun!

[Dizzy D]

I agree it had jumped the shark at that point becoming nothing more than a sit com really. But, to me, those issues still have their charm. As a young lad of 11 or 12, I was intrigued by the thought of life outside the Star Wars galaxy. That had never occurred to me before. Of course, it was attempted with much greater success, I think, in a subsequent prose novel (I forget which one, now). Even weirder than Infantino was the choice of artist during that run. Who was it -- with the minimalist style?


I don't know the name, but I'm pretty sure it was a female artist...

Looked it up, her name was Cynthia Martin, sometimes with Sal Buscema as fill-in.

[Matt_K]

Yeah Martin was a truely bizarre choice. She'd be a good artist with an original property but she was WILDY unsuited to Star Wars. Duffy's scripts didn't help- (did anyone actually give a damn about Kiro and the Nagai? And man the Hiromi sucked and the hoojibs wore out their welcome to. And where did the Tofs come from?) but I still put the shark jumping at #89 I think which was written by Ann Nocenti and is a really painful read.

[Dizzy D]

Yeah Martin was a truely bizarre choice. She'd be a good artist with an original property but she was WILDY unsuited to Star Wars. Duffy's scripts didn't help- (did anyone actually give a damn about Kiro and the Nagai? And man the Hiromi sucked and the hoojibs wore out their welcome to. And where did the Tofs come from?) but I still put the shark jumping at #89 I think which was written by Ann Nocenti and is a really painful read.

I cared about the Nagai, but there was too much else going on at the time (the Hiromi, the Hoojibs, the Lashbees: all comic relief/cutesy races that fit really badly in the type of story the Nagai/Rebel Alliance war was becoming.) And while I liked the idea of the Toffs (the danger the Nagai themselves were fleeing from), I didn't like the execution: they never came off as this super-dangerous race, more like a bunch of thugs.

And I have to give Martin props for that lightsabre/lightwhip fight between Luke and Shira Brie; I liked the art on that.

[Drew Geraci]

FYI: The latest issue of Back Issue, published by Twomorrows, has a great article about Marvel's Star Wars run with cool Simonson and Palmer art reproduced in black and white. It just came out last week.


www.drewgeraci.com

[Sir Tim Drake]

I cared about the Nagai, but there was too much else going on at the time (the Hiromi, the Hoojibs, the Lashbees: all comic relief/cutesy races that fit really badly in the type of story the Nagai/Rebel Alliance war was becoming.) And while I liked the idea of the Toffs (the danger the Nagai themselves were fleeing from), I didn't like the execution: they never came off as this super-dangerous race, more like a bunch of thugs.

I have no idea what Lashbees are, but Kitty Pryde sure seems to like them (cf. Uncanny X-Men #174).

[Dizzy D]

I have no idea what Lashbees are, but Kitty Pryde sure seems to like them (cf. Uncanny X-Men #174).

Lashbees were cute fluffy mammals that turned into giant monsters when they became adult.

[Matt_K]

They were nowhere near as bad as hoojibs and hiromi, who just plain sucked.

[The Confessor]

Sorry, 'tis against the rules to discuss places where you can find pirated, digital versions of comics but I can tell you that the entire ROTJ adaptation can be picked up as a trade paperback or as the four individual issues pretty cheaply from eBay.

Go on...treat yourself.*

*This statement was brought to you by the Al Williamson Appreciation Society - London Chapter.

[grphxkindaguy]

And I have to give Martin props for that lightsabre/lightwhip fight between Luke and Shira Brie; I liked the art on that.

Ditto, this was the only worthwhile issue of those post-ROTJ Star Wars issues.

What's even funnier is there is a TOY out of this exact comic! :eek:

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Comic-Lumiya-Skywalker/dp/B002KPRYF2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=toys-and-games&qid=1295471911&sr=1-1

[dupersuper]

I have a few issues of the Marvel Return of the Jedi mini...I might have all 4 issues.

[The Confessor]

Ditto, this was the only worthwhile issue of those post-ROTJ Star Wars issues.

What's even funnier is there is a TOY out of this exact comic! :eek:


LOL...I didn't know about that toy grphxkindaguy but I did know that Shira Brie/Dark Lord Lumiya was one of the few supporting characters and concepts from the Marvel run that have been fully incorporated into that dull and largely soulless place known as the Star Wars Expanded Universe. Thanks for the link!

I'd have to disagree with your assertion that the final Dark Lord Lumiya arc (SW #95-96) was the only good post-ROTJ storyline. Indeed, the very first post-ROTJ issue (SW #81), in which Han Solo deals with re-adjusting to real life in the wake of his time spent in a carbonite-induced limbo, is a strong candidate for best issue of the entire series, I reckon. But to be honest, I don't think that the series really started to run out of steam until immediately after that final Lumiya arc. After that, the central cast began to get crowded out of the action, as characters like the Tofs and the Nagai come to the fore.

I've read interviews with scriptwriter Jo Duffy in which she explained that by that point in the proceedings, with ROTJ having come out some three years previously, George Lucas wanted to put Star Wars behind him (at least for the time being). As a result of this, the editorial mandates coming down from Lucasfilm about what Marvel could and couldn't do with the central Star Wars characters became ever more draconian and unreasonable. This meant that the supporting cast had to be brought to the fore in order to generate interesting stories, but unfortunately, the stars of the movies ended up almost as supporting characters in their own book.

As a result, Marvel began to get the distinct impression that Lucasfilm would just be a lot happier if there wasn't a Star Wars book on the shelves, so they decided to cancell it. This is significant because contrary to popular belief, at least according to Jo Duffy, the series was not cancelled due to poor sales. In fact, even the last handful of issues were still selling a lot more than many of Marvel's superhero related books.



I have a few issues of the Marvel Return of the Jedi mini...I might have all 4 issues.


Those are some great comics and it's a pretty good adaptation, despite only lasting four issues—Marvel's adaptations of A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back had been spread over six issues each. The awesome Al Williamson artwork (with a little help from Carlos Garzon) is so good that its almost worth owning those issues for that alone.

[grphxkindaguy]

LOL...I didn't know about that toy grphxkindaguy but I did know that Shira Brie/Dark Lord Lumiya was one of the few supporting characters and concepts from the Marvel run that have been fully incorporated into that dull and largely soulless place known as the Star Wars Expanded Universe. Thanks for the link!

I'd have to disagree with your assertion that the final Dark Lord Lumiya arc (SW #95-96) was the only good post-ROTJ storyline. Indeed, the very first post-ROTJ issue (SW #81), in which Han Solo deals with re-adjusting to real life in the wake of his time spent in a carbonite-induced limbo, is a strong candidate for best issue of the entire series, I reckon. But to be honest, I don't think that the series really started to run out of steam until immediately after that final Lumiya arc. After that, the central cast began to get crowded out of the action, as characters like the Tofs and the Nagai come to the fore.

I've read interviews with scriptwriter Jo Duffy in which she explained that by that point in the proceedings, with ROTJ having come out some three years previously, George Lucas wanted to put Star Wars behind him (at least for the time being). As a result of this, the editorial mandates coming down from Lucasfilm about what Marvel could and couldn't do with the central Star Wars characters became ever more draconian and unreasonable. This meant that the supporting cast had to be brought to the fore in order to generate interesting stories, but unfortunately, the stars of the movies ended up almost as supporting characters in their own book.

As a result, Marvel began to get the distinct impression that Lucasfilm would just be a lot happier if there wasn't a Star Wars book on the shelves, so they decided to cancell it. This is significant because contrary to popular belief, at least according to Jo Duffy, the series was not cancelled due to poor sales. In fact, even the last handful of issues were still selling a lot more than many of Marvel's superhero related books.

Those are some great comics and it's a pretty good adaptation, despite only lasting four issues—Marvel's adaptations of A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back had been spread over six issues each. The awesome Al Williamson artwork (with a little help from Carlos Garzon) is so good that its almost worth owning those issues for that alone.

Yeah, I actually came across the actual toys of Luke/Lumiya in a TARGET a few months back. I did a double-take when I realized what it was from! Too bad its 25+ years too late for me to enjoy as a kid... :frown:

After reading those post-ROTJ comics, it was easily apparent that Marvel should have cancelled the comic then and there. It was clear to see there was NO point in doing the comic anymore. The Nagai was just another "threat" for the heroes to combat (since the Empire was gone)...and they werent much of a threat at that! :eek:

The worst was that one issue where they had Luke looking like Rambo, running around with a red bandana tied around his head and sporting a big gun. Truly cringe-worthy.

What kills me is I used to have TWO copies of the final issue of the series. Never knew it was rare! I traded it to a friend a couple of years after buying it off the shelves (the extra copy came from a subscription). Its worth something like $70 now....ugh. :mad:

[goof]

As a kid I begged for a Star Wars comic subscription so I wouldn't miss out on those Return of The Jedi issues. I was like :confused: when they didn't come in the mail.

[grphxkindaguy]

As a kid I begged for a Star Wars comic subscription so I wouldn't miss out on those Return of The Jedi issues. I was like :confused: when they didn't come in the mail.

Yeah, Marvel made that a seperate mini-series which I found surprising since they released the previous two movies in the regular issues of the book.

[Ben Akers]

I loved those issues of the Star Wars comic post-ROTJ.

I discovered the whole lot of them at the local used bookstore and managed to pick my way through all of them week by week. It was amazing that I was able to get them all over several months without anyone else "taking" them from me. Nowadays, I always have to pounce on any back issues I really want for fear of them being gone the next time I'm there.

In retrospect, those issues aren't the best, but it was new Star Wars stories at a time when there was virtually nothing else.

[The Confessor]

After reading those post-ROTJ comics, it was easily apparent that Marvel should have cancelled the comic then and there. It was clear to see there was NO point in doing the comic anymore.


Ooh...harsh. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this. While its true that the last dozen or so issues of the series were pretty lackluster (although the stand-alone issue #98 was excellent), I thought the majority of the post-ROTJ comics...let's say from issues #81 to around #93...were actually pretty good.


The Nagai was just another "threat" for the heroes to combat (since the Empire was gone)...and they werent much of a threat at that!


Agreed. Although the same could be said for the equally crap Ssi-Ruuk from the SW Expanded Universe books.



The worst was that one issue where they had Luke looking like Rambo, running around with a red bandana tied around his head and sporting a big gun. Truly cringe-worthy.


LOL....yeah, not a high point for the series.



What kills me is I used to have TWO copies of the final issue of the series. Never knew it was rare! I traded it to a friend a couple of years after buying it off the shelves (the extra copy came from a subscription). Its worth something like $70 now....ugh. :mad:


Well, that's kind of what I was saying in my previous post: according to Jo Duffy, that last issue really isn't as rare as dealers and various comic price guides would have you believe. In issue #9 of Back Issue magazine (published in April 2005), Duffy was quoted as saying that right up until the end of the series "Star Wars was still selling over 100,000 copies a month, better than most of the mid-range Superhero books."

I was shocked to read this because I'd heard for years that the series was cancelled due to poor sales and that as a result, the last issue was pretty rare. If what Duffy says is correct (and why should she lie about it?), the high prices that the final issue commands are due to price-hyping by dealers.



As a kid I begged for a Star Wars comic subscription so I wouldn't miss out on those Return of The Jedi issues. I was like :confused: when they didn't come in the mail.

Yeah, Marvel made that a seperate mini-series which I found surprising since they released the previous two movies in the regular issues of the book.


ROTJ was published as a four issue mini-series simply as a way to get two Star Wars books on the shelves every month. Forget the Empire, baby…Capitalism Strikes Back! :tongue: :wink:



I loved those issues of the Star Wars comic post-ROTJ.

In retrospect, those issues aren't the best, but it was new Star Wars stories at a time when there was virtually nothing else.


Good point, Ben. During the post-ROTJ period, Marvel's Star Wars comic provided many fans with a regular dose of adventures in that galaxy far, far away at a time when getting a fresh Star Wars fix was becoming increasingly hard. This was especially true after the newspaper strip ceased publication at the tail end of 1984.

[Alan2099]

I always thought that it had something to do with Jabba the Hutt. Way before ROTJ came out, Marvel had already shown their own version of Jabba that looked nothing like the one that appeared in the movies and had the character show up and interact with the cast in several storylines.

[grphxkindaguy]

Ooh...harsh. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this. While its true that the last dozen or so issues of the series were pretty lackluster (although the stand-alone issue #98 was excellent), I thought the majority of the post-ROTJ comics...let's say from issues #81 to around #93...were actually pretty good.

Agreed. Although the same could be said for the equally crap Ssi-Ruuk from the SW Expanded Universe books.

ROTJ was published as a four issue mini-series simply as a way to get two Star Wars books on the shelves every month. Forget the Empire, baby…Capitalism Strikes Back! :tongue: :wink:

Good point, Ben. During the post-ROTJ period, Marvel's Star Wars comic provided many fans with a regular dose of adventures in that galaxy far, far away at a time when getting a fresh Star Wars fix was becoming increasingly hard. This was especially true after the newspaper strip ceased publication at the tail end of 1984.

:biggrin: Yes, we will have to agree to disagree. But crappy Star Wars is better then NO Star Wars...CoughPrequelsCough

I've stayed away from the EU books, except for the Timothy Zahn novels. If Dark Horse ever adapted any of the EU novels I'd totally try them out! I have no time or desire to read a dozen + novels when the comic book version will do just fine by me. The Zahn adaptations to the Heir to the Empire trilogy are some of my fave SW comics...

Capitalism is a foe NO hero can beat!!! :tongue:

[The Confessor]

I always thought that it had something to do with Jabba the Hutt. Way before ROTJ came out, Marvel had already shown their own version of Jabba that looked nothing like the one that appeared in the movies and had the character show up and interact with the cast in several storylines.


You're absolutely right about Marvel's original version of Jabba (who appeared in the adaptation of the first movie and in subsequent late '70s issues) looking completely different to the Jabba we later saw in ROTJ. Howard Chaykin, the artist for the comic adaptation of the first movie, actually based his version of Jabba on an alien briefly visible in the Mos Eisley cantina sequence of Episode IV - A New Hope. This is because in the shooting script, which Marvel's adaptation was heavily based on, Jabba was vaguely described as an alien but there was no conceptual artwork for him.

However, I've never read anything to suggest that these two distinctly different Jabba's were the reason why the ROTJ comic was released as a separate mini-series. I think it was just good old fashioned greed on Marvel's part, as a way to get two SW books on the stands.

Incidentally, over here in England, the ROTJ adaptation was printed in the regular weekly Star Wars comic, with the ongoing "Tay Vanis/Yom Argo/Bothan spies" storyline from the regular U.S. Star Wars comic being relegated to a back up strip.

[The Confessor]

:biggrin: Yes, we will have to agree to disagree. But crappy Star Wars is better then NO Star Wars...CoughPrequelsCough


Ain't it the truth.



I've stayed away from the EU books, except for the Timothy Zahn novels.


Likewise. While I loved Zahn's Thrawn trilogy when it came out, I found an awful lot of the subsequent EU novels to be rather soulless and dull…not to mention conspicuously lacking in the wonder and excitement of the Star Wars universe. The only EU stuff I've picked up for the last 15 years or so have been some of Dark Horse's comics...although not all of those are great either. These days, the only title I regularly pick up is Star Wars: Dark Times which really is incredibly good.

[Gaastra]

You're absolutely right about Marvel's original version of Jabba (who appeared in the adaptation of the first movie and in subsequent late '70s issues) looking completely different to the Jabba we later saw in ROTJ. Howard Chaykin, the artist for the comic adaptation of the first movie, actually based his version of Jabba on an alien briefly visible in the Mos Eisley cantina sequence of Episode IV - A New Hope. This is because in the shooting script, which Marvel's adaptation was heavily based on, Jabba was vaguely described as an alien but there was no conceptual artwork for him.

Marvel later reconed that after rotj. We find out the other jabba was a stand in working for jabba who did deals for jabba by pretending to be him.

[The Confessor]

Marvel later reconed that after rotj. We find out the other jabba was a stand in working for jabba who did deals for jabba by pretending to be him.


Yeah, I did know about that actually. It wasn't marvel who did that though...it was some Expanded Universe author many years later I believe. It's one of the EU's more suspect continuity contortions I'd say, and one that still makes me laugh. I mean, seriously...c'mon. :biggrin:

[grphxkindaguy]

While I loved Zahn's Thrawn trilogy when it came out, I found an awful lot of the subsequent EU novels to be rather soulless and dull…not to mention conspicuously lacking in the wonder and excitement of the Star Wars universe. The only EU stuff I've picked up for the last 15 years or so have been some of Dark Horse's comics...although not all of those are great either. These days, the only title I regularly pick up is Star Wars: Dark Times which really is incredibly good.

I had the same opinion, the few EU books I read after the Zhan trilogy left me cold, very un-SW-like. I gave up after Truce @Bakura or Courtship of Leia, one of those. I've only returned for other Zahn novels.

The recent Darth Bane novel trilogy was surprisingly good too! And I loathe the KOTOR/Old Republic era of SW.

I've been buying the SW Dark Horse titles from day one, but the last few series have been hit and miss for me. Loved Legacy, hated KOTOR and Dark Times didn't do much for me (though great artwork at the beginning). The delays didn't help either. Didn't they cancel Dark Times?

I see now that DH is foregoing any regular SW monthly titles and doing a "series of mini-series" format, like they do for Hellboy. I've had zero desire to try any of these mini's out. No marketing on them whatsoever, nothing to let me know what they're about. So why bother then?

[Aaron King]

At the recommendation of everyone here, I picked up the second volume of Dark Horse's reprints of the Marvel material. It had been sitting at a used bookstore for awhile, and I'm a big fan of Archie Goodwin, but the Infantino art just didn't click with me. I think this was one of those purchases that I needed some sort of external justification for.

Anyway, now that I'm about halfway through, I'm really digging it. I'm used to Infantino's art, but I still prefer him on the Flash. Goodwin does a great job of keeping the feeling of forward momentum without actually changing the characters. (I'm thinking specifically of when Luke uses the Force to get out of Yavin and the captions say something along the lines of, "He's getting better at using the Force, but it still requires much concentration. It's something he won't be able to do often.")

Lastly, if anyone's looking for some great Star Wars comics, I would highly, highly recommend Star Wars Legacy by John Ostrander. It's a compelling and fresh book that manages to remain loyal to the mythos.

[Arnold Layne]

The DH Star Wars titles right now do seem directionless and forgettable. I was very disappointed with the seeming abandonment of the Legacy story, with a 6 issue mini to tie things up. There was really no need to cancel the ongoing as it seemed to be one of DH's most consistent top sellers, and the best and most original new Star Wars series in years.

[The Confessor]

Dark Times didn't do much for me (though great artwork at the beginning). The delays didn't help either. Didn't they cancel Dark Times?


Ha...well, you could be forgiven for thinking so, given the delays between issues. But no, it is still being published sporadically. Actually, thinking about it, if memory serves me correctly, I think Dark Horse may've been threatening to cancel it at the same time that they did away with Star Wars: Rebellion, but there was a lot of protest on the DH forums...so, the series was saved.



I picked up the second volume of Dark Horse's reprints of the Marvel material.


Good purchase, Aaron! So, looking online, I see that volume 2 collects Star Wars #21 - #38. There are some great stories in there. Personal favourites of mine from that period would have to be the first few issues, which finds the heroes on The Wheel space station and fighting for their lives, the return to Tatoooine storyline (a BIG favourite of mine as a kid), and the return of Jabba The Hut (sic)...you really gotta watch out for those pesky stone mites! :biggrin:

Also worth noting is issue #38, which I believe will be the final story in that TPB (and the last issue before the adaptation of The Empire Strikes Back began). This issue is interesting because it features some decidedly mangaesque artwork from the pen of Michael Golden. The story is called "Riders In The Void" and I can distinctly remember how weird the artwork looked back in 1980, compared to other Marvel and DC books I was reading at the time. It was definitely the first time that I had ever been exposed to anything even remotely resembling Japanese comic art...and I suspect I'm not the only person of my age who will say that. The cover artwork also exhibited this manga influence and proves that Princess Leia invented tentacle porn! :wink:


http://i54.tinypic.com/mshg7b.jpg



It had been sitting at a used bookstore for awhile, and I'm a big fan of Archie Goodwin, but the Infantino art just didn't click with me. I think this was one of those purchases that I needed some sort of external justification for.

Anyway, now that I'm about halfway through, I'm really digging it. I'm used to Infantino's art, but I still prefer him on the Flash.


I know what you mean about Infantino's art on the series. Even as a kid, I always felt that Carmine's art was out of place in the book...it just didn't look Star Warsy enough or something. Plus all those angular elbows, jawlines and hands used to really bug me as a kid. I think that you're right though, Infantino's Star Wars art is an acquired taste. These days I like it an awful lot more than I used to and I can see that despite its idiosyncrasies, it's superbly executed sequential artwork that serves to move the story along in a clear and gripping manner.



Goodwin does a great job of keeping the feeling of forward momentum without actually changing the characters. (I'm thinking specifically of when Luke uses the Force to get out of Yavin and the captions say something along the lines of, "He's getting better at using the Force, but it still requires much concentration. It's something he won't be able to do often.")


Agreed. Keeping the Star Wars comic and its characters interesting, without treading on the toes of Lucasfilm, was a balancing act that, for the most part, Marvel achieved with aplomb. I particularly like how the House Of Tagge, featuring Baron Orman Tagge and his sister Domina, come to the fore during the period covered in your TPB...with the Baron making both a good villain and a fine antagonist for Darth Vader.

[Roquefort Raider]

Agreed. Keeping the Star Wars comic and its characters interesting, without treading on the toes of Lucasfilm, was a balancing act that, for the most part, Marvel achieved with aplomb. I particularly like how the House Of Tagge, featuring Baron Orman Tagge and his sister Domina, come to the fore during the period covered in your TPB...with the Baron making both a good villain and a fine antagonist for Darth Vader.

Those characters were pure gold. Right after ROTJ, I expected the series to deal with the great political houses (reminiscent of the DUNE imperium), with the eventual return of Shira Brie, with the ascension of... (what was his name? Fred? Bert? The young man whom Vader had taken under his wing in an annual?) ... as a dark lord, and with all the cool concepts dropped here and there during the series.

But what did we get?... an alien invasion. How unoriginal. Especially since the aliens were punk rockers. And then? Another alien invasion. Only this time performed by Louis XIV and by space pirates riding space galleons. Oh, the indignity!!!

[The Confessor]

Those characters were pure gold. Right after ROTJ, I expected the series to deal with the great political houses (reminiscent of the DUNE imperium), with the eventual return of Shira Brie, with the ascension of... (what was his name? Fred? Bert? The young man whom Vader had taken under his wing in an annual?) ... as a dark lord, and with all the cool concepts dropped here and there during the series.

But what did we get?... an alien invasion. How unoriginal. Especially since the aliens were punk rockers. And then? Another alien invasion. Only this time performed by Louis XIV and by space pirates riding space galleons. Oh, the indignity!!!


You're quite right that the punk rock invasion of the galaxy was pretty bad (they were actually called the Nagai, but the did look like they'd just stepped off of the stage of CBGB (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CBGB)'s :biggrin:). I would also agree that by the time the Nagai and their enemies the Tofs appeared, the book was on its last legs...thanks in no small part to the ever tightening creative shackles that Lucasfilm was clamping onto Marvel at the time.

From what I've read, the reason that all of those plot points that you mentioned kind of got dropped, was because Lucasfilm were saying more and more at that time that Marvel couldn’t advance the core characters. So, that’s why the book was suddenly flooded with loads of new supporting characters…because somebody had to do something interesting in the books, even if it wasn't Han, Luke and Leia et al. Oh, and that was Flint that Vader chose as his apprentice in annual #3. :cool:

However, as I've previously mentioned, the Nagai invasion didn't actually occur until around the issue #93 or #94 mark and the first post-ROTJ issue was issue #81. I know I’m sounding like a scratched record here, but I maintain that the first ten issues or so of the post-ROTJ era were just as strong as anything that had been published in the period between the ESB and ROTJ…a period that is widely regarded as the series’ best.

I'd also say that we did get to see a little bit of political wrangling and consolidation of the New Republic in those post-ROTJ issues, with Leia increasingly having to act the role of intergalactic envoy and dignitary (something that culminated in issue #90’s "The Choice"), although as you rightly point out, it wasn't anywhere near the epic scale of Dune.


Edit: Interesting/obscure bit of Marvel Star Wars trivia for you here...did you know that Jo Duffy named the Nagai in honour of Japanese comics artist and writer, Go Nagai.

Not a lot of people know that (he said, in his best Michael Caine voice).

[grphxkindaguy]

Ha...well, you could be forgiven for thinking so, given the delays between issues. But no, it is still being published sporadically. Actually, thinking about it, if memory serves me correctly, I think Dark Horse may've been threatening to cancel it at the same time that they did away with Star Wars: Rebellion, but there was a lot of protest on the DH forums...so, the series was saved.

Also worth noting is issue #38, which I believe will be the final story in that TPB (and the last issue before the adaptation of The Empire Strikes Back began). This issue is interesting because it features some decidedly mangaesque artwork from the pen of Michael Golden. The story is called "Riders In The Void" and I can distinctly remember how weird the artwork looked back in 1980, compared to other Marvel and DC books I was reading at the time. It was definitely the first time that I had ever been exposed to anything even remotely resembling Japanese comic art...and I suspect I'm not the only person of my age who will say that. The cover artwork also exhibited this manga influence and proves that Princess Leia invented tentacle porn! :wink:


oh okay, I just figured Dark Times was quietly cancelled or something.

SW #38 is my single favorite issue of the entire Marvel series, bar none. Michael Golden's artwork on that totally blew me away. I have 3 copies of it in my collection, I like it so much! :-)

[grphxkindaguy]

From what I've read, the reason that all of those plot points that you mentioned kind of got dropped, was because Lucasfilm were saying more and more at that time that Marvel couldn’t advance the core characters. So, that’s why the book was suddenly flooded with loads of new supporting characters…because somebody had to do something interesting in the books, even if it wasn't Han, Luke and Leia et al. Oh, and that was Flint that Vader chose as his apprentice in annual #3. :cool:


I never knew that!!! I'll cut Marvel some slack then, for those last issues being so bad. :wink:

I always wondered what happened to Flint at the end of the Annual and was disappointed when they never resolved his storyline.

Yesterday I got the Back Issue issue where they do a story on the Star Wars Marvel era. Now just have to find some time to read it!

[Sean Walsh]

Yeah, Marvel made that a seperate mini-series which I found surprising since they released the previous two movies in the regular issues of the book.

They probably did this to make some extra money off of (what was at the time) the last STAR WARS movie. They worked with LucasFilm, so they probably had some inkling that going forward......the working relationship was gonna be the same (restrictive, strange, problematic)....or worse.

Ooh...harsh. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this. While its true that the last dozen or so issues of the series were pretty lackluster (although the stand-alone issue #98 was excellent), I thought the majority of the post-ROTJ comics...let's say from issues #81 to around #93...were actually pretty good.

I recall the initial stories (during that vague transition from pre-ROTJ to post-ROTJ, when Vader and the Empire kinda.....went away/changed roles) were decent, but after a year it got kinda painful to read.

Well, that's kind of what I was saying in my previous post: according to Jo Duffy, that last issue really isn't as rare as dealers and various comic price guides would have you believe. In issue #9 of Back Issue magazine (published in April 2005), Duffy was quoted as saying that right up until the end of the series "Star Wars was still selling over 100,000 copies a month, better than most of the mid-range Superhero books."

I was shocked to read this because I'd heard for years that the series was cancelled due to poor sales and that as a result, the last issue was pretty rare. If what Duffy says is correct (and why should she lie about it?), the high prices that the final issue commands are due to price-hyping by dealers.

Well, I'm certain LucasFilm got a cut of what those sales were....and given the creative restraints, I wouldn't be shocked if there were some financial ones too.

And maybe back then, Marvel deemed that 100K (especially when not getting to keep all those sales) weren't necessarily great. Crazy to consider that at face value, but this is an industry where they once sold MILLIONS of issues every month.....

And it was always my understanding that the last issue's big hype value was that it was the first comic work (or first Marvel work) of Whilce Portacio, who inked Cynthia Martin's pencils.

[Jared]

I always wondered what happened to Flint at the end of the Annual and was disappointed when they never resolved his storyline.


Spoiler: according to the article "Evil Never Dies: The Sith Dynasties", some time later, Lumiya and Flint confront each other at Vader's castle on Vjun. Only Lumiya walks away.

What's kind of cool about Flint is how whoever wrote his origin did an almost spot-on callback to the prequels by sheer accident. As I recall, his parents get killed, and Vader overhears Flint swearing to obtain power and vengeance. Then Vader says something like "It has been a long time since I spoke as you do know." I suspect that nobody enjoyed Attack of the Clones more than that writer.

I once passed on a dirt cheap set of the post-ROTJ comics at my shop, including the Luke vs. Lumiya issue. I figured there was no point, since nothing really "counted" in the EU. Of course now a lot of the Marvel stuff has been incorporated. I've only read the issues up to ESB. I think they're being omnibused. I don't feel a need to have everything, but the stuff in between ESB and ROTJ sounds like it might be worthwhile.

Did Marvel publish Alan Moore's SW stories in the U.S.?

[Sean Walsh]

I once passed on a dirt cheap set of the post-ROTJ comics at my shop, including the Luke vs. Lumiya issue. I figured there was no point, since nothing really "counted" in the EU. Of course now a lot of the Marvel stuff has been incorporated. I've only read the issues up to ESB. I think they're being omnibused. I don't feel a need to have everything, but the stuff in between ESB and ROTJ sounds like it might be worthwhile.

Did Marvel publish Alan Moore's SW stories in the U.S.?

No, but Dark Horse did. A 2-issue miniseries, under the CLASSIC STAR WARS brand, called DEVILWORLDS.

And yes, the stuff between ESB and ROTJ was great reading - particular the stuff by David Micheline and Walt Simonson (from the mid-40s to late 50s), which I thought was amazing. But everything else was really good too.

[The Confessor]

Yesterday I got the Back Issue issue where they do a story on the Star Wars Marvel era. Now just have to find some time to read it!


You mean Back Issue #9 with Nexus on the cover? That's a great article about Marvel's Star Wars comic and one that I only picked up myself a few months back, following a tip off from some of the forum regulars here. The article actually details the ever tightening creative restrictions that Lucasfilm put on the series and as I mentioned earlier in this thread, Jo Duffy goes on record as saying that the series wasn't cancelled due to poor sales, as is commonly believed.

Anyway, it's a great read...you're in for a treat!


it was always my understanding that the last issue's big hype value was that it was the first comic work (or first Marvel work) of Whilce Portacio, who inked Cynthia Martin's pencils.


Oh, OK...that's interesting. A glance at the GCD confirms that issue #107 was indeed inked by Portacio. I must confess that I had never heard this fact given as a reason for the inflated prices that the issue demands, but that would certainly make sense. Especially considering what Jo Duffy said about the sales figures towards the end of the series. Thanks for that tidbit of info, Sean.


Did Marvel publish Alan Moore's SW stories in the U.S.?


No, they didn't.

At the time, those Alan Moore penned stories were only published in the UK's Star Wars comic. However, Dark Horse did reprint all five of Moore's Star Wars stories for the U.S. market (along with most of the other UK exclusive Marvel Star Wars stories) in the 1996 two issue mini-series, Devilworlds. This series is really well worth picking up if you're a fan of Marvel's Star Wars run, although be warned, Alan Moore's stories are decidedly strange. Also, the U.S. reprints are in colour, whereas when these stories originally appeared in the UK, they were in black and white.

Strangely, the Devilworlds series collects all of the UK exclusive stories bar one: Steve Moore's "Death Masque", which originally appeared in The Empire Strikes Back Monthly #149. Why that story wasn't reprinted by Dark Horse along with the others, is anybody's guess. Consequently, the only way you can get this story is by finding an old copy of ESB #149.



Edit: Ah, I see that Sean Walsh got there before me with an answer to the Alan Moore question.

[grphxkindaguy]

You mean Back Issue #9 with Nexus on the cover? That's a great article about Marvel's Star Wars comic and one that I only picked up myself a few months back, following a tip off from some of the forum regulars here. The article actually details the ever tightening creative restrictions that Lucasfilm put on the series and as I mentioned earlier in this thread, Jo Duffy goes on record as saying that the series wasn't cancelled due to poor sales, as is commonly believed.

Anyway, it's a great read...you're in for a treat!

Oh, OK...that's interesting. A glance at the GCD confirms that issue #107 was indeed inked by Portacio. I must confess that I had never heard this fact given as a reason for the inflated prices that the issue demands, but that would certainly make sense. Especially considering what Jo Duffy said about the sales figures towards the end of the series. Thanks for that tidbit of info, Sean.


Yep, that's it! Nice Nexus cover...

I know in some old cancelled series, like Marvel's GI Joe and Transformers runs, the last few issues demand big bucks b/c as the series was winding down at that point so less and less copies were being printed. The last issue of GI Joe is pretty valuable as a result, not sure about Transformers.

I remember reading an old Marvel comic a few months back (from the late '70's era) and they had a list inside on the bottom of the letters page, listing ALL the Marvel comics coming out. At one point Marvel was producing a Star Wars, Star TREK (right after TMP film) and Battlestar Galactica (the original show was still on the air) comic for a few months! :eek:

Three of the biggest sci-fi properties had comic books out at the same time, from the same company...

[Sean Walsh]

Oh, OK...that's interesting. A glance at the GCD confirms that issue #107 was indeed inked by Portacio. I must confess that I had never heard this fact given as a reason for the inflated prices that the issue demands, but that would certainly make sense. Especially considering what Jo Duffy said about the sales figures towards the end of the series. Thanks for that tidbit of info, Sean.

No prob, sir.

I was lucky enough to finish my Marvel STAR WARS collection in the earl-to-mid-1990's, right as the prices for *everything* in that series began to move upwards - still remains the luckiest situation in my entire comic collecting "career.

I think I may've paid a bit more for that last issue, given its worth even back then, but by that point it was worth it (and I think my dad probably chipped in and helped out).

[grphxkindaguy]

No prob, sir.

I was lucky enough to finish my Marvel STAR WARS collection in the earl-to-mid-1990's, right as the prices for *everything* in that series began to move upwards - still remains the luckiest situation in my entire comic collecting "career.

I think I may've paid a bit more for that last issue, given its worth even back then, but by that point it was worth it (and I think my dad probably chipped in and helped out).

A couple of years ago, after I finished (re)reading my SW Marvel run, I replaced the regular bags/boards w/Mylite2/Half-back's. A couple of the middle issues were in pretty rough shape, so I replaced them with vf/nm copies, all at a reasonable online prices! :biggrin:

[The Confessor]

At one point Marvel was producing a Star Wars, Star TREK (right after TMP film) and Battlestar Galactica (the original show was still on the air) comic for a few months! :eek:

Three of the biggest sci-fi properties had comic books out at the same time, from the same company...


Yeah, I've never read any of Marvel's Star Trek comics (aside from their adaptation of Star Trek The Motion Picture which came out in a magazine-sized special) but I'm mid-way through completing my run of their Battlestar Galactica series. If I'm brutally honest about it, the series isn’t actually that good, but I vividly remember hearing about this fabled American BG comic as a kid back in 1980 or thereabouts and I really wanting to get my hands on it. Unlike Star Wars, Marvel didn't bother to publish their Battlestar Galactica series in the UK, so that made it all the more desirable to me. A year or so ago, I finally decided to start acquiring issues (which are pretty cheap) as some sort of 8-year-old me wish fulfillment exercise. :smile:



I was lucky enough to finish my Marvel STAR WARS collection in the earl-to-mid-1990's, right as the prices for *everything* in that series began to move upwards - still remains the luckiest situation in my entire comic collecting "career.


Snap! I had literally the exact same buying experience as you did regarding the acquisition of my full run. I finally tracked down the final book that I needed (issue #98, which had been stubbornly elusive) in about 1994 or 1995, just as interest in the Star Wars franchise began to grow again. I felt very smug watching the prices of my SW collection, which is in pretty high grade condition, go up and up as the decade wore on and the release of The Phantom Menace approached. Not that I would've parted with my books for all the tea in China, so I guess it didn’t really matter one way or the other what they were worth.

[MichikoS]

There are some serious SW aficionados with knowledge here in this thread! I haven't followed Star Wars comics (or movies, for that matter) except in the most casual way, so this thread was full of illuminating tidbits. Thanks to all of you for sharing your views so eloquently.

I hate to bring Mammon into this high level of discourse, but can any of you tell me why these particular issues of DH Star Wars are so collectible (i.e., expensive)?

1. Star Wars Tales #9 (photo and art covers)
2. Star Wars Obsession mini-series (#1-5)
3. Star Wars Purge one-shot

I'm asking because a friend of mine who is a Star Wars collector has asked me to be on the lookout for these whenever I attend conventions. I would think these issues are super common and easily found in the cheap boxes, but he says absolutely not. What is the reason for their special desirability? It does appear that they are always out of stock on online comic sites, and when available they are eye-poppingly expensive for modern books. Somebody clue me in, please.

Thanks,
Michi

[Ben Akers]

1. Star Wars Tales #9 (photo and art covers)


Star Wars Tales #9 features the fight between Vader and Maul. Almost the entire issue is that story. It's one of the best Star Wars comics I've ever read, and well worth tracking down.

[Sean Walsh]

I hate to bring Mammon into this high level of discourse, but can any of you tell me why these particular issues of DH Star Wars are so collectible (i.e., expensive)?

1. Star Wars Tales #9 (photo and art covers)
2. Star Wars Obsession mini-series (#1-5)
3. Star Wars Purge one-shot

SWT #9 was Vader vs. Maul, probably the most important/popular issue of that series.

Obsession was a miniseries that dealt with events leading right into Episode III. The series started in late 2004, but they delayed the last issue until the day before the movie came out. I would imagine that long delay resulted in the first 4 issues to sell out completely beforehand and #5 to disappear quickly too

Purge came out in late 2005, and was solicited as a follow up on Episode III and the first of several one-shots that would deal with Vader hunting down Jedi who survived Order 66 (the long awaited "Jedi Extermination", moreorless). It sold out real quick; I got mine the first week and never saw it again for cover price.

[DrDoom616]

Reading the complete run of Marvel's Star Wars series, I note with some puzzlement that it contains no Return Of The Jedi adaptation. The events of both A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back are faithfully chronicled but ROTJ is skipped despite the comic having printed at the time and after that film. Events in ROTJ are referred to and suddenly slotted into the comic's continuity, they're just never shown in the comic. Which annoys me as I was quite looking forward to seeing Jabba and the sand pit and the ewoks and all that. So what happened?
Did Marvel not have the rights to that film? Then how come they could refer to its characters and events? I know Marvel lost its SW franchise voluntarily (they canceled the comic due to flagging sales at #107 and then later sold it off to Dark Horse) so I doubt this is some case of LEC taking it away from them but I could be wrong... It could be they just chose not to do it, but why? It would've been an obvious tie-in and sales booster to revivify the series' market presence.
Someone explain?

Not only that, but the 3-Part Chris Claremont and Carmine Infantino Story from Marvel Illustrated 'World Of Fire' has not been reprinted either.
And that was one of my favourite ones by Marvel :cool:

[The Confessor]

Not only that, but the 3-Part Chris Claremont and Carmine Infantino Story from Marvel Illustrated 'World Of Fire' has not been reprinted either.
And that was one of my favourite ones by Marvel :cool:


Agreed, this is a little known gem of Marvel's Star Wars output, but strictly speaking, it was reprinted once...the Marvel Illustrated book is itself a reprint. :smile: The story first appeared in the UK's Star Wars Weekly comic (issues #107-109) and was then reprinted in colour in the U.S. as the Marvel Illustrated paperback.

[DrDoom616]

Agreed, this is a little known gem of Marvel's Star Wars output, but strictly speaking, it was reprinted once...the Marvel Illustrated book is itself a reprint. :smile: The story first appeared in the UK's Star Wars Weekly comic (issues #107-109) and was then reprinted in colour in the U.S. as the Marvel Illustrated paperback.

Yep, I still have the Original Star Wars Weekly/ Monthly Comics Issues 1-171, I've never actually seen the Colour re-print by Marvel, but would love Dark Horse to release this as either a newly re-coloured Mini or Trade.

[grphxkindaguy]

Yeah, I've never read any of Marvel's Star Trek comics (aside from their adaptation of Star Trek The Motion Picture which came out in a magazine-sized special) but I'm mid-way through completing my run of their Battlestar Galactica series. If I'm brutally honest about it, the series isn’t actually that good, but I vividly remember hearing about this fabled American BG comic as a kid back in 1980 or thereabouts and I really wanting to get my hands on it. Unlike Star Wars, Marvel didn't bother to publish their Battlestar Galactica series in the UK, so that made it all the more desirable to me. A year or so ago, I finally decided to start acquiring issues (which are pretty cheap) as some sort of 8-year-old me wish fulfillment exercise. :smile:


Yeah, you're not missing anything, the Marvel Trek and BSG runs were pretty bad for the most part (I own both also). Walt Simonson did a little bit on the BSG title IIRC, mostly covers. One of the first comic books I ever read as a kid was BSG #8, which was a great "done in one" action-packed issue and holds a fond place in my heart. :biggrin:

There is one issue of BSG, I think #17, that I read online a while back was actually a retooled inventory issue of Marvel's defunct TARZAN title that was never used! The artist changed Tarzan to wear clothing as Apollo! :eek:

[grphxkindaguy]

SWT #9 was Vader vs. Maul, probably the most important/popular issue of that series.

Obsession was a miniseries that dealt with events leading right into Episode III. The series started in late 2004, but they delayed the last issue until the day before the movie came out. I would imagine that long delay resulted in the first 4 issues to sell out completely beforehand and #5 to disappear quickly too

Purge came out in late 2005, and was solicited as a follow up on Episode III and the first of several one-shots that would deal with Vader hunting down Jedi who survived Order 66 (the long awaited "Jedi Extermination", moreorless). It sold out real quick; I got mine the first week and never saw it again for cover price.

SWT #9 and the Purge one-shot were some of the best SW comics have done. Obsession wasn't that great IMO. I unloaded my set for a pretty penny. IIRC it's been reprinted in one of the SW Omnibus'.

[Ramage]

Loved those post Star Wars/ Pre Empire Marvel books.

What I think is interesting is that the cheesiness of those stories is actually more consistent than the humourless stories we get from the novels today. Basically it seems if every Star Trek writer has ventured over to Star Wars novels. They seem to forget that Star Wars was a lot of goofy fun.


So give me Jaxon and Infantino over the the multigeneration storyline they got going now.

---Surprised no one gave a shotout out to Valance. Loved that bounty hunting cyborg.

[grphxkindaguy]

Loved those post Star Wars/ Pre Empire Marvel books.

What I think is interesting is that the cheesiness of those stories is actually more consistent than the humourless stories we get from the novels today. Basically it seems if every Star Trek writer has ventured over to Star Wars novels. They seem to forget that Star Wars was a lot of goofy fun.

So give me Jaxon and Infantino over the the multigeneration storyline they got going now.

---Surprised no one gave a shotout out to Valance. Loved that bounty hunting cyborg.

Jaxon! What a fun character. I heard Lucas really hated him, which is funny b/c he created far worse characters in the Ewoks & Jar Jar Binks.

Valance! I barely rememeber him. What was his story again? Was he hunting Luke, but Vader eventually killed him? IIRC he kinda looked like Cable, from the New Mutants...

[The Confessor]

Loved those post Star Wars/ Pre Empire Marvel books.

What I think is interesting is that the cheesiness of those stories is actually more consistent than the humourless stories we get from the novels today.


I couldn't agree more. Although there has undoubtedly been a small amount of great Expanded Universe stuff published since the 90s (I'm thinking of comics like Empire and the Thrawn trilogy of novels), for the most part, the Marvel series does the best job of capturing the inherent fun of the original trilogy.


Basically it seems if every Star Trek writer has ventured over to Star Wars novels. They seem to forget that Star Wars was a lot of goofy fun.


...and I'd say that the reverse was true of the most recent Star Trek movie. Here it seems we had a writer and director who loved Star Wars but had absolutely no clue how to write Trek. The two franchises are completely different beasts (as I'm sure anyone on these boards will know).


So give me Jaxon and Infantino over the the multigeneration storyline they got going now.

---Surprised no one gave a shotout out to Valance. Loved that bounty hunting cyborg.


Nice to see a fellow Jaxxon fan in the thread and yes, the Valence saga was great....he was a really compelling villain. Although, arguably he's not really a villian in the truest sense and is actually a deeply troubled and conflicted man, who cuts quite a tragic figure in the end.



Valance! I barely rememeber him. What was his story again? Was he hunting Luke, but Vader eventually killed him? IIRC he kinda looked like Cable, from the New Mutants...


Yeah, he sort of looked like Cable I suppose. Valence was a cyborg mercenary who hated droids (the fact that he was half droid himself wasn't revealed immediately, to heighten the dramatic twist at the end of his first appearance). He had heard about Luke Skywalker's fondness for C-3PO and R2-D2, and how he treated them as equals, which made him furiously angry...remember, in the SW universe, droids are widely regarded as second class citizens, hence the "no droids" scene in the Mos Eisley cantina.

Anyway, Valance being the fanatical droid bigot that he was, he couldn't stand to let a filthy droid lover like Luke Skywalker live and so began a series of adventures in which he pursued the boy from Tatooine across the galaxy with the intention of killing him and destroying R2 and 3PO. But, as I noted, Valance was actually half droid himself...oh, the shame! :wink:

Anyway, he was a good character and appeared in a handful of issues during Infantino's time on the book. He eventually met his fate at the hands of Darth Vader if I recall correctly, but I'm hazy on the whys and wherefores of his demise. It's been a while since I read that issue.

Here's some pics…


http://i55.tinypic.com/axcwi.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/oa6q0i.jpg

[Aaron King]

Finally finished my Dark Encounters TPB after a few days of vacation, so I guess I'm just here to chime in with everyone's support of the series. Valance, the Tagges, Wermis, and the rest of the supporting cast are all pretty great characters, and that Michael Golden issue was just... crazy, bizarre, fresh. It was Goodwin at his most boiled down: tightly plotted and touching. The art was such a difference from Infantino; I've only seen Golden's stuff from The Nam, which I really liked, and this is a little different, a little shinier, a little more... Steranko. What fun. I'll be tracking down the other trades.

[Ramage]

One of the big things of those post Star Wars comics was Vader was trying to find out the name of the xwing pilot . He had a Rebel defector cornered in a castle like building surrounded by molten lava. Valence tried to stop Vader from capturing the defector.

Vader sliced him up and then the defector jumped into the lava to prevent himself from giving up Luke's name.

About two issues later Vader and one of his floating ball torture thingees finally got Skywalker's name. Strangely he gave no indication that Luke was his son, no thought balloons :"Wow, what a coincidence that this pilot has the same last name as me. Was he the same blond guy that was hanging around Obi-won when I whupped his ass? You know Padme was knocked up and the age would be about right...hmmm..."

[The Confessor]

One of the big things of those post Star Wars comics was Vader was trying to find out the name of the xwing pilot . He had a Rebel defector cornered in a castle like building surrounded by molten lava. Valence tried to stop Vader from capturing the defector.

Vader sliced him up and then the defector jumped into the lava to prevent himself from giving up Luke's name.


Ah, of course...thanks for refreshing the ol' memory Ramage. Valance eventually sided with Luke, didn't he...because he hoped that the Rebel Allinace might some day make a galaxy where half-man/half-machine "freaks" like him would be accepted. Ah, it all comes back to me now.


About two issues later Vader and one of his floating ball torture thingees finally got Skywalker's name. Strangely he gave no indication that Luke was his son, no thought balloons :"Wow, what a coincidence that this pilot has the same last name as me. Was he the same blond guy that was hanging around Obi-won when I whupped his ass? You know Padme was knocked up and the age would be about right...hmmm..."


LOL...this imagined inner dialogue of Vader's made me chortle. :biggrin:

Of course, even though its not shown in the Marvel series, this fact obviously dawned on Vader, as shown in the Al Williamson/Archie Goodwin newspaper strip, which is set in roughly the same time period (and was published only a year or two later). There was plenty of reference there to the fact that Vader knew who Luke was, which played nicely into the big reveal in The Empire Strikes Back. Of course, those newspaper strips had the benefit of being written after ESB came out. :wink:

[grphxkindaguy]

Ah, of course...thanks for refreshing the ol' memory Ramage. Valance eventually sided with Luke, didn't he...because he hoped that the Rebel Allinace might some day make a galaxy where half-man/half-machine "freaks" like him would be accepted. Ah, it all comes back to me now.

LOL...this imagined inner dialogue of Vader's made me chortle. :biggrin:


...and DID the galaxy become more accepting of cyborgs after the Empire fell? :tongue:

That also made me chuckle a bit, Vaders inner dialogue there.

Besides Shira Brie/Lumiya, were there any other characters from the Marvel run ever reused in later novels/comics?

[The Confessor]

Besides Shira Brie/Lumiya, were there any other characters from the Marvel run ever reused in later novels/comics?


Valance was used in a video game I believe and Zeltrons as a race have definitely appeared but I'm not sure if Dani (the Zeltron from Rik Duel's gang) has appeared specifically.


Edit: I also want to say that Jaxxon has been reused but I'm not sure where...or even if this is correct. But I thought I heard something about it once.

[Arnold Layne]

I know the Nagai were used in DH's Legacy series; one of the Sith is a Nagai, and I believed they were introduced in the original Marvel series. I wonder if they were named after Devilman creator Go Nagai?

[Dizzy D]

...and DID the galaxy become more accepting of cyborgs after the Empire fell? :tongue:

That also made me chuckle a bit, Vaders inner dialogue there.

Besides Shira Brie/Lumiya, were there any other characters from the Marvel run ever reused in later novels/comics?

I know Boba Fett mentioned the other two Mandaloreans in one of the Dark Horse comics (this was before the prequels though).

There is also the planet Yinchorr, which played a small role in one Leia-solo story and was in the Dark Horse comics the planet where the Imperial Guard was trained.

As for Jaxxxon, I want to say there was a green rabbit in the background in Legacy somewhere, but I'm not 100% sure.

[The Confessor]

I know the Nagai were used in DH's Legacy series; one of the Sith is a Nagai, and I believed they were introduced in the original Marvel series.


Yes, they were indeed from the latter-days of the Marvel series. Didn't know that they'd been reused though Arnold (Syd Barrett/Pink Floyd fan per chance?), so thanks for that info.



I wonder if they were named after Devilman creator Go Nagai?


Yes, they were...I mentioned this a page or so back.



I know Boba Fett mentioned the other two Mandaloreans in one of the Dark Horse comics (this was before the prequels though).


Yes, you're right! I had totally forgotten that, but he did indeed mention Tobbi Dala and Fenn Shysa in one of the DH comics. I vividly remember reading that issue now and thinking that it was cool that they were referencing the Marvel series. Fenn Shysa and Tobbi Dala, Boba Fett's two Mandalorian comrades, first appeared in issues #68 and #69 of Marvel's series, which are two of the best IMHO.



There is also the planet Yinchorr, which played a small role in one Leia-solo story and was in the Dark Horse comics the planet where the Imperial Guard was trained.

As for Jaxxxon, I want to say there was a green rabbit in the background in Legacy somewhere, but I'm not 100% sure.


I didn't know about Yinchorr being re-used but yes, I think that members of the Lepi race (big green rabbits) have appeared in Legacy. I don't read that series but I recall someone at my LCS telling me that they had made an appearance, when we got into a discussion on the merits of the Marvel SW series.

But still, I can't help thinking that I read somewhere that Jaxxon, the particular Lepi who appeared in the Marvel run, has made a very brief re-appearance somewhere...or maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part.

C'mon, Dark Horse...let's have Jaxxon hook up with Bomo Greenbark and join the crew of the Uhumele over in the pages of Dark Times! :smile:

[grphxkindaguy]

Yes, you're right! I had totally forgotten that, but he did indeed mention Tobbi Dala and Fenn Shysa in one of the DH comics. I vividly remember reading that issue now and thinking that it was cool that they were referencing the Marvel series. Fenn Shysa and Tobbi Dala, Boba Fett's two Mandalorian comrades, first appeared in issues #68 and #69 of Marvel's series, which are two of the best IMHO.


I didn't know about Yinchorr being re-used but yes, I think that members of the Lepi race (big green rabbits) have appeared in Legacy. I don't read that series but I recall someone at my LCS telling me that they had made an appearance, when we got into a discussion on the merits of the Marvel SW series.

But still, I can't help thinking that I read somewhere that Jaxxon, the particular Lepi who appeared in the Marvel run, has made a very brief re-appearance somewhere...or maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part.


oh yeah, I remember that story too, w/the guys in Mandalorian armor! I thought that story was retconned/ignored, since it was revealed Boba was a clone. Great story nevertheless.

Was Jango Fett a Mandalorian, or did he just use their armor? And if their armor is so good, why don't a lot more people pop up wearing them in the SWU?

How can you not read SW: Legacy?!? Its easily the best Star Wars book in years... :frown:

[The Confessor]

oh yeah, I remember that story too, w/the guys in Mandalorian armor! I thought that story was retconned/ignored, since it was revealed Boba was a clone. Great story nevertheless.

Was Jango Fett a Mandalorian, or did he just use their armor? And if their armor is so good, why don't a lot more people pop up wearing them in the SWU?


I'm not 100% sure, but Fenn Shysa and Tobbi Dala are definitely back in continuity again (although the idea of any of the EU actually counting as "in continuity" is laughable since Lucas demonstrated such blatant disregard for it when he was filming the prequels).


How can you not read SW: Legacy?!? Its easily the best Star Wars book in years... :frown:


No, no, no...that's Dark Times, I think you'll find. :tongue:

[grphxkindaguy]

No, no, no...that's Dark Times, I think you'll find.

BLASPHEMY! :eek: :wink:

I just finished reading that article in Back Issue magazine, on the Marvel run of Star Wars. It was very well done! Very informative.

I had NO idea that Archie Goodwin & Al Williamson's runs on the comic/movie adaptations were so highly regarded, even by Lucas. They're both making Star Wars comics in heaven now. :frown:

Walt Simonson's comments were especially funny. I never knew he left the book (his SW era is my fave) to draw the X-Men/Teen Titans crossover one-shot...my favorite single comic of all time! :biggrin:

[Ben Akers]

oh yeah, I remember that story too, w/the guys in Mandalorian armor! I thought that story was retconned/ignored, since it was revealed Boba was a clone. Great story nevertheless.

Was Jango Fett a Mandalorian, or did he just use their armor? And if their armor is so good, why don't a lot more people pop up wearing them in the SWU?


They tried to explain a bunch of it in the Jango Fett: Open Seasons mini-series, but I expect that recent events in the Clone Wars cartoon involving Mandos has once again set the EU continuity in motion.

[The Confessor]

I had NO idea that Archie Goodwin & Al Williamson's runs on the comic/movie adaptations were so highly regarded, even by Lucas. They're both making Star Wars comics in heaven now. :frown:


Oh yeah, Lucas was a big fan of Williamson's artwork...I guess from reading his EC and Flash Gordon work as a youngster. And why not? Al Williamson's artwork, particularly his sci-fi artwork, is absolutely amazing in my opinion. In fact, the Goodwin/Williamson adaptation of ESB is my personal candidate for best comic book movie adaptation ever.

I'm not sure if it mentions it in that article or not, but Williamson was actually Lucas' first choice for an artist on a Star Wars comic book and he had even approched him as early as 1974 or 75, way before Marvel got involved. For one reason or another though, Williamson initially turned Lucas down. But of course, with the movie adaptations and the daily newspaper strip, Williamson ended up drawing quite a bit of SW stuff.

[grphxkindaguy]

Oh yeah, Lucas was a big fan of Williamson's artwork...I guess from reading his EC and Flash Gordon work as a youngster. And why not? Al Williamson's artwork, particularly his sci-fi artwork, is absolutely amazing in my opinion. In fact, the Goodwin/Williamson adaptation of ESB is my personal candidate for best comic book movie adaptation ever.

Yeah, the ESB adaptation was amazing! I first read it in the paperback book format (which I still own), great stuff. The ROTJ one was weaker IIRC.

I still love the original Star Wars movie adaptation, done in this HUGE Treasury Sized format in 2 issues. They were gorgeous to behold at that size.

Marvel used to crank out a LOT of movie adaptations in the 80's. Some other personal favorites are the Raiders of the Lost Ark (John Buscema), Conan the Barbarian (Buscema again) and Blade Runner (Al Williamson art here too).

[The Confessor]

Marvel used to crank out a LOT of movie adaptations in the 80's. Some other personal favorites are the Raiders of the Lost Ark (John Buscema), Conan the Barbarian (Buscema again) and Blade Runner (Al Williamson art here too).


Ooh yeah...Williamson and Goodwin's Blade Runner adaptation was fantastic, but I do wish they'd stretched it out over 4 issues, rather than cramming it into two. Reading it, I can't help feeling that the pacing is a little rushed.

[grphxkindaguy]

Ooh yeah...Williamson and Goodwin's Blade Runner adaptation was fantastic, but I do wish they'd stretched it out over 4 issues, rather than cramming it into two. Reading it, I can't help feeling that the pacing is a little rushed.

Oh yeah, it definitely was. I actually preferred the comic to the movie! :eek:

I recently picked up the Conan the Destroyer movie adaptation. I guess the creators were ashamed/embarrased to be doing the book, b/c there are NO creator credits whatsoever in ANY of the issues!!! LOL

[Arnold Layne]

Didn't Roy Thomas write the script to the Destroyer movie? And good eye on the Pink Floyd reference. I'm a huge fan.....my life revolves around Pink Floyd, Star Wars and Batman.

[grphxkindaguy]

Didn't Roy Thomas write the script to the Destroyer movie? And good eye on the Pink Floyd reference. I'm a huge fan.....my life revolves around Pink Floyd, Star Wars and Batman.

Yes I believe he did. What is the Pink Floyd reference you're referring to?

[Arnold Layne]

My username, Arnold Layne, was Floyd's first single from Piper At The Gates Of Dawn, back in the Syd Barrett era of the band.

[The Confessor]

I actually preferred the comic to the movie! :eek:


:eek: That's madness. Madness, I say!


What is the Pink Floyd reference you're referring to?


I asked him if he was a Syd Barrett/Pink Floyd fan earlier in the thread, based on his username.


My username, Arnold Layne, was Floyd's first single from Piper At The Gates Of Dawn, back in the Syd Barrett era of the band.


Actually, "Arnold Layne" wasn't included on Piper At The Gates Of Dawn (he said pedantically) but then, I'm sure you already knew that. Both were released in 1967 though.

[grphxkindaguy]

:eek: That's madness. Madness, I say!


:biggrin: LOL

I actually had read the Blade Runner novel and comics adaptation (as a kid) FIRST, then didn't get to see the movie as a video rental until years later. The movie looked great visually, but it did nothing for me. :frown::eek:

[Ramage]

Where was the John Carter of Mars homage Claremont did in one of the post Empire Star Wars? I looked in the fifties and sixties and couldn't find it.

Yet another example of a poor fit for the Star Wars mythos.

[Arnold Layne]

Actually, "Arnold Layne" wasn't included on Piper At The Gates Of Dawn (he said pedantically) but then, I'm sure you already knew that. Both were released in 1967 though.

Dammit, sometimes I think my brain is as fried as Barrett's was.

[Dizzy D]

Where was the John Carter of Mars homage Claremont did in one of the post Empire Star Wars? I looked in the fifties and sixties and couldn't find it.

Yet another example of a poor fit for the Star Wars mythos.

#53-54? It was a weird story, true. Especially the part at the ending where Chewbacca suddenly throws a large metal plate at an escaping spaceship. Chewbacca was pretty strong, but not the Hulk.
(in the dutch translation, this was the split, where Star Wars went from monthly 24 pages to bimonthly 48 pages.)

[The Confessor]

Where was the John Carter of Mars homage Claremont did in one of the post Empire Star Wars? I looked in the fifties and sixties and couldn't find it.

Yet another example of a poor fit for the Star Wars mythos.

#53-54?


Yeah, it was issues #53 and #54 - "The Last Gift From Alderaan" and actually, it wasn't just a John Carter homage...it was a whole unused issue of John Carter: Warlord Of Mars that was touched up and redrawn slightly to turn it into a Star Wars adventure. The look of the story, particularly in the first issue, was very John Carteresque and the mish-mash of Simonson and Infantino artwork is a little distracting at times, but personally, I don't think it turned out too badly. The second issue, where Luke, Lando and Chewbacca appear to rescue Princess Leia was better than the first and as a kid I remember thinking that Sk'ar was a pretty scary villain.



It was a weird story, true. Especially the part at the ending where Chewbacca suddenly throws a large metal plate at an escaping spaceship. Chewbacca was pretty strong, but not the Hulk.


True, but then again the Marvel series often portrayed Chewbacca as far stronger and much more likely to fly into a berserker-style rage than the movies did, particularly in the pre-Empire Strikes Back comics. I think that the emphasis among the Marvel writers was definitely on Han Solo's throwaway remark to C-3PO about Wookies "tearing people's arms out of their sockets."


(in the dutch translation, this was the split, where Star Wars went from monthly 24 pages to bimonthly 48 pages.)


Whereas in the UK, "The Last Gift From Alderaan" was the third monthly issue of the Star Wars comic, after more than two and a half years as a weekly publication. The UK version of "The Last Gift From Alderaan" also sported a rather nice original cover by an unaccredited artist...


http://i52.tinypic.com/24l0y11.jpg

[grphxkindaguy]

Yeah, it was issues #53 and #54 - "The Last Gift From Alderaan" and actually, it wasn't just a John Carter homage...it was a whole unused issue of John Carter: Warlord Of Mars that was touched up and redrawn slightly to turn it into a Star Wars adventure. The look of the story, particularly in the first issue, was very John Carteresque and the mish-mash of Simonson and Infantino artwork is a little distracting at times, but personally, I don't think it turned out too badly. The second issue, where Luke, Lando and Chewbacca appear to rescue Princess Leia was better than the first and as a kid I remember thinking that Sk'ar was a pretty scary villain.


I remember reading those issues as a kid and thinking to myself, "WTF is this?!?" since it seemed like a very un-SW-like kind of story. I had never heard of John Carter at that point. LOL

I do agree that Sk'ar was a good villian. Everything else was forgettable.

[dupersuper]

Yeah, it was issues #53 and #54 - "The Last Gift From Alderaan" and actually, it wasn't just a John Carter homage...it was a whole unused issue of John Carter: Warlord Of Mars that was touched up and redrawn slightly to turn it into a Star Wars adventure. The look of the story, particularly in the first issue, was very John Carteresque and the mish-mash of Simonson and Infantino artwork is a little distracting at times, but personally, I don't think it turned out too badly. The second issue, where Luke, Lando and Chewbacca appear to rescue Princess Leia was better than the first and as a kid I remember thinking that Sk'ar was a pretty scary villain.





True, but then again the Marvel series often portrayed Chewbacca as far stronger and much more likely to fly into a berserker-style rage than the movies did, particularly in the pre-Empire Strikes Back comics. I think that the emphasis among the Marvel writers was definitely on Han Solo's throwaway remark to C-3PO about Wookies "tearing people's arms out of their sockets."





Whereas in the UK, "The Last Gift From Alderaan" was the third monthly issue of the Star Wars comic, after more than two and a half years as a weekly publication. The UK version of "The Last Gift From Alderaan" also sported a rather nice original cover by an unaccredited artist...


http://i52.tinypic.com/24l0y11.jpg

Tie fighters have rope ladders...?

[The Confessor]

Tie fighters have rope ladders...?


It's a Tie Bomber actually (he said sniffily :wink:) and yes, apparently they do have rope ladders. Pretty ridiculous when you think about, I know...but it beats a Star Trek transporter any ol' day of the week! :tongue:

[grphxkindaguy]

It's a Tie Bomber actually (he said sniffily :wink:) and yes, apparently they do have rope ladders. Pretty ridiculous when you think about, I know...but it beats a Star Trek transporter any ol' day of the week! :tongue:

They must be packed like sardines in that TIE Bomber, since its only a one person ship! :eek:

[The Confessor]

They must be packed like sardines in that TIE Bomber, since its only a one person ship! :eek:


Well, a quick look on Wookiepedia reveals that actually I'm talking out of my ass and in fact those are TIE Boarding Craft (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/TIE_boarding_craft), and not TIE Bombers at all. :redface:

The secondary pod, into which Leia and Aron Peacebringer were carried, is hollow and can apparently house a small number of stormtroopers. Ahhh...the Expanded Universe, it thinks of everything! :smile:

As an aside, I seem to remember (and I can't be bothered to dig out the issue right now) that the stormtroopers who descended on those rope ladders were actually giant-size stormtroopers. Anybody else recall that?

[grphxkindaguy]

Well, a quick look on Wookiepedia reveals that actually I'm talking out of my ass and in fact those are TIE Boarding Craft (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/TIE_boarding_craft), and not TIE Bombers at all. :redface:

The secondary pod, into which Leia and Aron Peacebringer were carried, is hollow and can apparently house a small number of stormtroopers. Ahhh...the Expanded Universe, it thinks of everything! :smile:

As an aside, I seem to remember (and I can't be bothered to dig out the issue right now) that the stormtroopers who descended on those rope ladders were actually giant-size stormtroopers. Anybody else recall that?

YES, I recall giant stormtroopers, couldnt recall if they were from those issues or something else. How ridiculous!!! :biggrin:

[dupersuper]

As an aside, I seem to remember (and I can't be bothered to dig out the issue right now) that the stormtroopers who descended on those rope ladders were actually giant-size stormtroopers.

No wonder the Princess thought Luke looked short for a storm trooper...

[The Confessor]

In an attempt to steer the topic of this thread back to Marvel's ROTJ adaptation, rather than just the Marvel SW series in general, has anybody ever noticed that there's some key moments from the film conspicuously absent from the comics? For example, Yoda's death scene is missing and, in fact, the Jedi Master's passing is never even mentioned. Also, Luke doesn't tell Leia that she's his sister in the comic adaptation. Lastly, the "force ghosts" of Yoda, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Anakin Skywalker do not appear to Luka at the very end of the story.

I have to be honest and say that as a kid I never even noticed these omissions from the storyline. It was only years later when I read articles about the series and commentators noted the missing scenes that I suddenly though "oh yeah, that's right." I can't help wondering why these scenes were left out. I guess the adaptation being squeezed into four issues, rather than the usual six, may have had something to do with it, but still...surely there were less important scenes that Marvel could've axed?

I was also thinking that it may've been to remove spoilers but issue #1 of the ROTJ mini-series was on the shelves in June 1983, a good month after the movie had opened in cinemas, so that doesn't really seem likely. Having said that, the adaptation did appear in its entirety in May 1983 in Marvel Super Special #27, so maybe the deletion of these scenes was in order to remove spoilers.

Anybody else got any theories or want to point out any other missing scenes?

[DrDoom616]

In an attempt to steer the topic of this thread back to Marvel's ROTJ adaptation, rather than just the Marvel SW series in general, has anybody ever noticed that there's some key moments from the film conspicuously absent from the comics? For example, Yoda's death scene is missing and, in fact, the Jedi Master's passing is never even mentioned. Also, Luke doesn't tell Leia that she's his sister in the comic adaptation. Lastly, the "force ghosts" of Yoda, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Anakin Skywalker do not appear to Luka at the very end of the story.

I have to be honest and say that as a kid I never even noticed these omissions from the storyline. It was only years later when I read articles about the series and commentators noted the missing scenes that I suddenly though "oh yeah, that's right." I can't help wondering why these scenes were left out. I guess the adaptation being squeezed into four issues, rather than the usual six, may have had something to do with it, but still...surely there were less important scenes that Marvel could've axed?

I was also thinking that it may've been to remove spoilers but issue #1 of the ROTJ mini-series was on the shelves in June 1983, a good month after the movie had opened in cinemas, so that doesn't really seem likely. Having said that, the adaptation did appear in its entirety in May 1983 in Marvel Super Special #27, so maybe the deletion of these scenes was in order to remove spoilers.

Anybody else got any theories or want to point out any other missing scenes?

Yeah, didn't the adaptation also have extra bits in it that weren't in the film, I distinctly remember Luke being disarmed and temporarily captured on the Sail Barge when his hand gets shot in the adaptation

[Alan2099]

Maybe the adaptions weren't from the movies themselves but from earlier scripts.

[The Confessor]

Maybe the adaptions weren't from the movies themselves but from earlier scripts.


Oh yes, the adaptations of A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back were definitely based on earlier versions of the script, hence the appearance in those adaptations of scenes that were eventually dropped from the movie, like the Biggs and Luke scenes on Tatooine and the whole "Wampas in the Rebel base" sub-plot from Empire. ROTJ however, seems to be a lot closer to the finished movie in terms of storyline and dialogue than its predecessors, so I’m inclined to think that it was based on a late version of the script.

As for this comment...


didn't the adaptation also have extra bits in it that weren't in the film, I distinctly remember Luke being disarmed and temporarily captured on the Sail Barge when his hand gets shot in the adaptation


...I have to say that I don't recall that off hand. If memory serves me correctly the whole Luke fighting on the sail barge deck and getting shot in the hand sequence is over very quickly in the comic...like maybe just a couple of panels. I'm annoyed with myself that I can't recall the sequence more accurately in my mind, so I'll have to dig out those issues later on tonight and have a look. I'll get back to you on this.

However, I'm pretty sure that the ROTJ adaptation didn't feature entire scenes that were missing from the movie, in the same way as Marvel's Star Wars and Empire adaptations did. For example, the famous "Luke constructing his new lightsaber" scene and the Tatooine sandstorm scene are both missing from the comic, just as they are from the movie itself. That's why it's so puzzling that pivotal moments like Yoda's death and Luke telling Leia that they are siblings are missing.

[grphxkindaguy]

IIRC one of the Empire adaptation issues of the regular Marvel series had Yoda colored PURPLE by mistake. :eek:

I remember reading somewhere that when Dark Horse were reprinting the Marvel series in trades, they decided to leave that error in, so as to accurately reprint everything, warts and all...

A no-prize may have been for that mistake, "Yoda ate some bad swamp soup that day?" :biggrin:

[The Confessor]

IIRC one of the Empire adaptation issues of the regular Marvel series had Yoda colored PURPLE by mistake. :eek:


Whilst it's true that he was coloured purple, this wasn't actually a mistake per se. The way Al Williamson drew Yoda was based on the Lucasfilm concept artwork for the character, which depicted the venerable Jedi Master as being much smaller than the later Frank Oz puppet, with purple skin and long white hair (kinda like an intergalactic Willie Nelson :biggrin:). By the time the ESB adaptation saw print, however, the movie had been shot using the familiar green Yoda we all know and love, leaving Williamson's rendering of the character somewhat at odds with what audiences saw on the cinema screen.



I remember reading somewhere that when Dark Horse were reprinting the Marvel series in trades, they decided to leave that error in, so as to accurately reprint everything, warts and all...


Hmmmm....it's interesting that Dark Horse would say that because Williamson actually went back later and fixed the artwork for Marvel. Consequently, although Yoda was purple in issues #42 and #43 of the main Star Wars series, he was actually redrawn and coloured green when the adaptation was reprinted in the paperback-sized Marvel Comics Illustrated Version Of The Empire Strikes Back (see examples below).



http://i52.tinypic.com/2vvt6xs.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/2tdj.jpg

[grphxkindaguy]

Whilst it's true that he was coloured purple, this wasn't actually a mistake per se. The way Al Williamson drew Yoda was based on the Lucasfilm concept artwork for the character, which depicted the venerable Jedi Master as being much smaller than the later Frank Oz puppet, with purple skin and long white hair (kinda like an intergalactic Willie Nelson :biggrin:). By the time the ESB adaptation saw print, however, the movie had been shot using the familiar green Yoda we all know and love, leaving Williamson's rendering of the character somewhat at odds with what audiences saw on the cinema screen.

Hmmmm....it's interesting that Dark Horse would say that because Williamson actually went back later and fixed the artwork for Marvel. Consequently, although Yoda was purple in issues #42 and #43 of the main Star Wars series, he was actually redrawn and coloured green when the adaptation was reprinted in the paperback-sized Marvel Comics Illustrated Version Of The Empire Strikes Back (see examples below).

http://i52.tinypic.com/2vvt6xs.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/2tdj.jpg

Thanks for the info Confessor! I have both the individual comics and the paperback adaptation, I'll have to check them out and compare Yoda's. :biggrin:

[grphxkindaguy]

Oh yes, the adaptations of A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back were definitely based on earlier versions of the script, hence the appearance in those adaptations of scenes that were eventually dropped from the movie, like the Biggs and Luke scenes on Tatooine and the whole "Wampas in the Rebel base" sub-plot from Empire.


Where was that Wampas in the Rebel base scene supposed to have been in the movie? After Han leaves to go rescue Luke?

In one of the EU SW novels, I don't recall which one, Luke & Mara Jade return to Hoth for some mission and encounter many Wampa's. Even the one that Luke had dismembered in ESB was there, it was the biggest wampa and their "leader" IIRC.

[The Confessor]

Where was that Wampas in the Rebel base scene supposed to have been in the movie? After Han leaves to go rescue Luke?


Prior to and after that scene, actually. I'm not 100% how the Wampas got into the Rebel base…maybe they were already there when the Rebels moved in, hidden in some unexplored cavern or something. But there was a whole subplot in the ESB shooting script about how these Wampas were at large in the Rebel base. At one point, there was a big fire fight between some rebel solidiers and the beasts, with the Wampas eventually being herded into an evacuated section of the base and sealed in. Warning signs were then placed on the door behind which the Wampas were quarantined.

Later on, when Darth Vader and the Imperial forces are marching through the shattered remains of the rebel base, C-3PO cunningly removes the warning sign. As a result, a platoon of snowtroopers unknowingly walk through the door and meet a grizzly end. All of this was filmed by the way, but the entire subplot was eventually removed from the final cut of the movie.

However, a brief snippet of C-3PO's "warning sign removal" can be seen in the ESB trailer (see here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6bvuhPyq8Q) at the 1:31 mark). Also, in the scene where Han Solo climbs onto his Taun Taun to go out and search for Luke, if you look closely, there's a 2-1B medical droid examining a dead Taun Taun laying on the ground. That Taun Taun was slain by Wampas inside the base and is a remnant of the excised subplot. As previously stated though, the subplot was retained for the Marvel adaptation...so it's all in there.



In one of the EU SW novels, I don't recall which one, Luke & Mara Jade return to Hoth for some mission and encounter many Wampa's. Even the one that Luke had dismembered in ESB was there, it was the biggest wampa and their "leader" IIRC.


How utterly shit. This is exactly the kind of crapola that puts me off the Expanded Universe novels (with the exception of the Timothy Zahns Thrawn trilogy of course).

While we're on the subject of Hoth and Wampas, let's not forget that issue #78 of Marvel's Star Wars series was set on Hoth after the rebel evacuation and focused in on Wedge Antilles and his injured snowspeeder gunner, Janson. The pair had missed their transport and been left behind on Hoth, where they sought refuge in the rebel base. Unfortunately Janson was killed by a marauding Wampa but I don't think that this was contected in any way to the "Wampas in the base" subplot from ESB.

Actually, there's some horrible Luke McDonnell pencils in that issue.

[grphxkindaguy]

Prior to and after that scene, actually. I'm not 100% how the Wampas got into the Rebel base…maybe they were already there when the Rebels moved in, hidden in some unexplored cavern or something. But there was a whole subplot in the ESB shooting script about how these Wampas were at large in the Rebel base. At one point, there was a big fire fight between some rebel solidiers and the beasts, with the Wampas eventually being herded into an evacuated section of the base and sealed in. Warning signs were then placed on the door behind which the Wampas were quarantined.

Later on, when Darth Vader and the Imperial forces are marching through the shattered remains of the rebel base, C-3PO cunningly removes the warning sign. As a result, a platoon of snowtroopers unknowingly walk through the door and meet a grizzly end. All of this was filmed by the way, but the entire subplot was eventually removed from the final cut of the movie.

However, a brief snippet of C-3PO's "warning sign removal" can be seen in the ESB trailer (see here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6bvuhPyq8Q) at the 1:31 mark). Also, in the scene where Han Solo climbs onto his Taun Taun to go out and search for Luke, if you look closely, there's a 2-1B medical droid examining a dead Taun Taun laying on the ground. That Taun Taun was slain by Wampas inside the base and is a remnant of the excised subplot. As previously stated though, the subplot was retained for the Marvel adaptation...so it's all in there.

How utterly shit. This is exactly the kind of crapola that puts me off the Expanded Universe novels (with the exception of the Timothy Zahns Thrawn trilogy of course).

While we're on the subject of Hoth and Wampas, let's not forget that issue #78 of Marvel's Star Wars series was set on Hoth after the rebel evacuation and focused in on Wedge Antilles and his injured snowspeeder gunner, Janson. The pair had missed their transport and been left behind on Hoth, where they sought refuge in the rebel base. Unfortunately Janson was killed by a marauding Wampa but I don't think that this was contected in any way to the "Wampas in the base" subplot from ESB.

Actually, there's some horrible Luke McDonnell pencils in that issue.

Thanks for the info! I would love to see those extra Empire scenes one day. I'm sure Lucas will throw them on as 'dvd extras' years from now on the upteenth SW dvd release. :eek:

I would love a scene w/Vader facing some angry Wampa's, pieces of snowtroopers all around, jumping around and dicing them w/his lightsaber. :biggrin:

I remember seeing that dead Tauntaun in the background and figured it had succumbed to the cold like Han's did.

Yeah, I stopped reading the EU SW novels soon after, they steadily got worse IMO and felt less and less "Star Wars". Zahn's are still my faves.

I remember that Hoth Marvel issue! It was a lot of fun IIRC. I remember Wedge growing a beard he was stuck on Hoth for so long. The part where he steals the pirate's ship and they are firing after it I distinctly remember, b/c one of the armored vehicles doing the shooting was a SW toy that I owned, that I had never seen in any of the movies.

Luke McDonnell did the art? Totally unrecognizable to me (I'm a big fan of his Suicide Squad and Iron Man work).

[The Confessor]

Thanks for the info! I would love to see those extra Empire scenes one day. I'm sure Lucas will throw them on as 'dvd extras' years from now on the upteenth SW dvd release.

You never know, some of those scenes might be on the forthcoming ESB Blu-Ray DVD. I know that the ROTJ Blu-Ray is gonna have the long-lost "Luke constructing his new lightsaber in Ben Kenobi's abandoned house" scene as an extra, so it's possible.


I would love a scene w/Vader facing some angry Wampa's, pieces of snowtroopers all around, jumping around and dicing them w/his lightsaber. :biggrin:

I remember seeing that dead Tauntaun in the background and figured it had succumbed to the cold like Han's did.


Ha ha...yeah, Vader in the midst of a Wampa attack would be cool. :biggrin:

You know, I was thinking about these missing "wampas in the base" scenes earlier and I bet at least part of the reason they were left out of the finished version of the film was because of the trouble that Lucas and ILM had with making the Wampas look good on film back in 1980. That's why the glimpses that we get of the beast that attacked Luke are so fleeting in the original version of the movie…it simply looked too crap for the camera to linger on it for any length of time. Obviously this is why Lucas expanded the Wampa cave sequence in the ESB Special Edition, so that we get to see more of the animal.



I remember that Hoth Marvel issue! It was a lot of fun IIRC. I remember Wedge growing a beard he was stuck on Hoth for so long. The part where he steals the pirate's ship and they are firing after it I distinctly remember, b/c one of the armored vehicles doing the shooting was a SW toy that I owned, that I had never seen in any of the movies.


That's absolutely right, Wedge did indeed grow a beard and as you rightly say, one of the space scavengers drove one of those Kenner "Mini-Rig" vehicles (I think it was the MLC-3, right?).


http://i55.tinypic.com/148ounp.jpg


Also, there was a pretty big blooper in that issue too. I'm not sure who was to blame, but either David Michelinie or Bob Layton obviously got Wedge Antilles and Biggs Darklighter mixed up. As a result, we get to see Wedge reminiscing in that issue about how he and Luke Skywalker grew up together on Tatooine. D'oh! :tongue:

[grphxkindaguy]

You never know, some of those scenes might be on the forthcoming ESB Blu-Ray DVD. I know that the ROTJ Blu-Ray is gonna have the long-lost "Luke constructing his new lightsaber in Ben Kenobi's abandoned house" scene as an extra, so it's possible.

Ha ha...yeah, Vader in the midst of a Wampa attack would be cool. :biggrin:

You know, I was thinking about these missing "wampas in the base" scenes earlier and I bet at least part of the reason they were left out of the finished version of the film was because of the trouble that Lucas and ILM had with making the Wampas look good on film back in 1980. That's why the glimpses that we get of the beast that attacked Luke are so fleeting in the original version of the movie…it simply looked too crap for the camera to linger on it for any length of time. Obviously this is why Lucas expanded the Wampa cave sequence in the ESB Special Edition, so that we get to see more of the animal.

That's absolutely right, Wedge did indeed grow a beard and as you rightly say, one of the space scavengers drove one of those Kenner "Mini-Rig" vehicles (I think it was the MLC-3, right?).

http://i55.tinypic.com/148ounp.jpg

Also, there was a pretty big blooper in that issue too. I'm not sure who was to blame, but either David Michelinie or Bob Layton obviously got Wedge Antilles and Biggs Darklighter mixed up. As a result, we get to see Wedge reminiscing in that issue about how he and Luke Skywalker grew up together on Tatooine. D'oh! :tongue:

Ohhh I didnt know Lucas was adding those deleted ROTJ scenes onto the forthcoming blue-ray.

Yeah, I remember seeing some kind of documentary on the Wampa problems, how it looked terrible no matter what they did for it. LOL

YES that was the toy I was referring to!!! A friend of mine had it, he had broken/lost the transparent bubble to it long before. Good memory!!! :biggrin:

I never caught that error, about Wedge and Luke growing up. Good catch! LOL

Wasn't the actor who played Wedge in all the movies, Ewan McGregor's uncle or something, that convinced him to play Obi-Wan for the prequels?

[The Confessor]

Wasn't the actor who played Wedge in all the movies, Ewan McGregor's uncle or something, that convinced him to play Obi-Wan for the prequels?


Yeah, something like that...not sure the exact relationship but the two actors are definitely related.

[Sean Walsh]

Yeah, something like that...not sure the exact relationship but the two actors are definitely related.

It's a direct relation - Ewan's mom (Carole Diane McGregor) is Denis' sister.

As I recall, Lawson said some years ago that he advised Ewan into not taking the role of Obi-Wan, because of the way the role may eclipse his entire career. Luckily, in retrospect, the prequels have not really harmed Ewan the way it harmed others....

[Roquefort Raider]

Now, now, Sean, some of the actors were greatly helped by the prequels. Just look at who's gonna star in the remake of Gone with the wind.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y205/RoquefortRaider/JarJarGoneWithTheWind.jpg

[grphxkindaguy]

So I was flipping through the ESB Marvel adaptation, in the digest form over the weekend. They had purple Yoda w/white hair in there, looking super-creepy! LOL

I also found the assorted Wampa scenes deleted from the film, like you mentioned, Confessor. I remember reading this waaaay back when and thinking to myself WTF when I was reading these parts. I also see why Lucas deleted them, they added nothing to the film...

The part in the film when Artoo was alone and going through a corridor, then some snow falls on his head is from a Wampa stalking him! His beeps attract and anger them. :biggrin:

[Arnold Layne]

It's a direct relation - Ewan's mom (Carole Diane McGregor) is Denis' sister.

As I recall, Lawson said some years ago that he advised Ewan into not taking the role of Obi-Wan, because of the way the role may eclipse his entire career. Luckily, in retrospect, the prequels have not really harmed Ewan the way it harmed others....



It's a shame Natalie Portman's career has suffered so badly from the prequels.

[The Confessor]

So I was flipping through the ESB Marvel adaptation, in the digest form over the weekend. They had purple Yoda w/white hair in there, looking super-creepy! LOL


When you say "digest form", do you mean the paperback novel-sized edition titled Marvel Comics Illustrated Version Of The Empire Strikes Back? Because my copy of that features the re-drawn, green Yoda, not the original purple one.



The part in the film when Artoo was alone and going through a corridor, then some snow falls on his head is from a Wampa stalking him!


Yes, you're right...I'd forgotten about that but as you say, that shot was originally part of the Wampa subplot.

[grphxkindaguy]

It's a shame Natalie Portman's career has suffered so badly from the prequels.

Liam Neeson's too! :tongue:

[grphxkindaguy]

When you say "digest form", do you mean the paperback novel-sized edition titled Marvel Comics Illustrated Version Of The Empire Strikes Back? Because my copy of that features the re-drawn, green Yoda, not the original purple one.

Yes, you're right...I'd forgotten about that but as you say, that shot was originally part of the Wampa subplot.

Yes, its a paperback-sized book, not digest-sized, sorry. It has Luke on a tauntaun in the foreground w/a big Vader head in the background and Snowspeeders flying between the two, and an orange sky.

This is it here:

http://www.mycomicshop.com/search?TID=625021

Last year around xmas I saw this...a sleeping bag that looked like a TAUNTAUN! Check this out:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/plush/bb2e/

:eek::biggrin:

[The Confessor]

Yes, its a paperback-sized book, not digest-sized, sorry. It has Luke on a tauntaun in the foreground w/a big Vader head in the background and Snowspeeders flying between the two, and an orange sky.


Yeah, that's the one...and your copy has the original purple Yoda with long white hair in it?! :eek:

How strange, because Al Williamson redrew the Jedi Master for this book to look more like the Frank Oz puppet seen in the film (as ilustrated by the images I posted previously in this thread). My own copy of this paperback book definitely has the new, green Yoda in it because in the past I've done a side-by-side comparison between it and the original issues (sad I know). How very odd. :confused:



Last year around xmas I saw this...a sleeping bag that looked like a TAUNTAUN! Check this out:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/plush/bb2e/


I'll see your Taun Taun sleeping bag and raise you one awesome Taun Taun cosplay...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txDSdEtYZNk