Doctor Who *spoilers*

[Matt]

(btw, matt, I can't find the Who FAQ.... is the Doctor still supposed to be half-human, or was that quickly ignored/forgotten?)

That's a tricky subject. Who-fans seem split over it...
Officially ... well, depends what origin of the Doctor you go with. One says he was loomed and is fully Gallifreyan and the reincarnation of The Other. The second one (which makes less sense, really, and doesn't fit as well) says some heroic Time Lords went to Earth, fell in love and knocked up a Human woman who gave birth to the Doctor.

Both origins are true according to The Gallifrey Chronicles, probably because the Doctor's timeline has been messed around with so much that it gives other Time Lords trying to make sense of it nightmares. At one point, a Time Lord called Marnel Gates tried doing it and gave up when he realised that there were at least three different 9th Doctors...

The theory I go with is that when the 7th Doctor turned into the 8th, the regeneration process went wrong (which we saw onscreen evidence of) and he absorbed nearby genetic stuff to help it along - since he was on a slab in a morgue at the time, that genetic stuff happened to be human. Hence his 8th body had more human traits in it than any other of his bodies.

Or, which is just as likely, the Master was just bullshitting.

[Matt]

Nah, Ace was more the Doctor's equal than Rose is. Ace knew when to act on her own (especially in the novels and audios) and it often fell to her to make sure the 7th Doctor's plans worked if anything went wrong.

I think a possiblity is that they are trying to find this season's voice.

I think they need to re-evaluate the sort of Doctor they want Tennant to be. In The Christmas Invasion he was considerably more no-nonsense, serious and generally down to earth and it worked very well; especially the scene where he said "No second chances..."

Since then, the show's direction seems to have turned more towards humour and I don't think Tennant is pulling off that sort of Doctor as well. It reminds me somewhat of the start of McCoy's era, where they just didn't know who the Doctor should be, and it took the major input of McCoy and some others to hammer things out (and they then went on to produce one of the best Who seasons ever).

[Ontir]

I didn't have access to the audios in the States, and I've seen realtively few "Who" novels for the last 20 years, so I have to go with my somewhat dimmed memory of the show. I didn't have anything against Ace, but she wasn't my favourite. I think the pairing of Rose with Sarah Jane was far more than just a bit of stunt-casting. There's a certain parity of the two. I don't recall there being the kind of closeness between the Dr. and Ace that there is between he and Rose. Sarah Jane and to some extent Romana was a more emotional equal. I don't ever think Ace was that.

[Matt]

Ace started off emotionally crippled, abducted from Earth (Iceworld) by Fenric in his long game against the Doctor (The Curse of Fenric). By the time of Ghostlight the Doctor was actually training Ace to attend the Time Lord Academy on Gallifrey - if things had worked, she would have been the first Non-Gallifreyan to have ever done so.

Ace, however, grew angered at all the manipulating the 7th Doctor did and they grew apart - Ace left the TARDIS and joined space fleet and fought in the Dalek Wars for a few years. She later rejoined the 7th Doctor and travelled with him again, this time on a more equal footing as she learned to trust the Doctor again. Eventually she moved on, settling in 19th century Paris with a time travelling motorbike (don't ask) at her disposal.

IIRC, the last time she saw the Doctor was in Lungbarrow (which is free to read/download on the BBC Dr Who website).

[Ontir]

Interesting. She could, at some point, motor into a story then.

I still like Rose better. :p

[The Unknown Zombie]

I always felt the Ace/Doctor one had more of a daughter/father vibe than the Rose/Doctor quasi-romantic one.

I think the next companion needs to establish a different kind of relationship. Not that I know what I'd it to be. :/

[Donald M.]

I think they need to re-evaluate the sort of Doctor they want Tennant to be. In The Christmas Invasion he was considerably more no-nonsense, serious and generally down to earth and it worked very well; especially the scene where he said "No second chances..."

Since then, the show's direction seems to have turned more towards humour and I don't think Tennant is pulling off that sort of Doctor as well. It reminds me somewhat of the start of McCoy's era, where they just didn't know who the Doctor should be, and it took the major input of McCoy and some others to hammer things out (and they then went on to produce one of the best Who seasons ever).

I agree. The sort of goofy jokey Doctor that Tennant has been playing since New Earth on has had his moments, (I can't help but get a smile every time he puts on his glasses) but has never entirely clicked with me. I think the problem is they're playing the humor angle too hard, with the Doctor and Rose seeing their adventures as a big game, like too kids set loose in the ultimate theme park. Every Doctor has had his elements of humor, but they were usually tempered by other qualities, including an innate understanding of just how dangerous all this mucking about in time is. A quality that Tennant's Doctor seems to lack.

Hopefully with Rose's death at the end of this season, we'll be seeing some positive changes in the Doctor's attitude. It'll be a hard lesson, but hopefully one that can help shape Tennant into a better Doctor for the remainder of his tenure. Of course, that's as much up to the writers as it is to Tennant, but I find it hard to believe they'd kill Rose and then have the Doctor still acting like a jokey funloving kid who either doesn't realize or doesn't care that the stuff he does has consequences.

I'm very much looking forward to next season to see where they go with this.

[king mob]

I think a possiblity is that they are trying to find this season's voice. I think part of it is humor unlike last season which didn't have any. I think next season, will be much better. I am very curious about Torchwood though. I wonder if this last few episodes will setup the series?


The second series has been one big set up for Torchwood.

One of the things Davies is really good at is making you think there's loads of randomness in his stories that doesn't make sense, then he ties it all up in the end. Clever bastard.

[Ontir]

I'm enjoying all the Torchwood set-ups.

I think part of what Tennant's Doctor has been, is a reaction to the overwhelming pain that ran through Eccleston's. What I like about his humour, is the way he uses it to diffuse and calm people around him, while demonstrating that he's well aware of how serious, even grim things may be. I don't think his personality is entirely set in stone, and I think the exit of Rose, however it comes, will be a turning point for him. She's been more of an overt romantic relationship than any previous, and she's been there from themoment he regenerated. It's bound to change him.

[tricksterpup]

The second series has been one big set up for Torchwood.

One of the things Davies is really good at is making you think there's loads of randomness in his stories that doesn't make sense, then he ties it all up in the end. Clever bastard.
Good point and really we are not used to Davies work here in the states except for the Doctor Who series. So when a show like this airs we are not sure who things are gonna go.
I personally, Like this season and look forward to seeing Torchwood later this summer.

[tricksterpup]

I'm enjoying all the Torchwood set-ups.

I think part of what Tennant's Doctor has been, is a reaction to the overwhelming pain that ran through Eccleston's. What I like about his humour, is the way he uses it to diffuse and calm people around him, while demonstrating that he's well aware of how serious, even grim things may be. I don't think his personality is entirely set in stone, and I think the exit of Rose, however it comes, will be a turning point for him. She's been more of an overt romantic relationship than any previous, and she's been there from themoment he regenerated. It's bound to change him.
Well, most of the themes have been about Lonelieness this entire season or being alone and trapped. Fear Her dealt with an Alien and little girl feeling all alone. Impossible Planet and Satan's Pit also had the feeling of being trapped and alone.
Class Reunion and Girl in the Fire Place had the Doctor talking about being alone. comments like, You can spend the rest of your life with Me but I can't with you. So in a way, this season was also giving us hints to Rose's death all season. We just ignored all the fore shadowing until now.
Heck, even in an odd way, the Cybermen show this as well. A man makes the Cybermen to be all alike and immortal. Getting rid of all forms of diversity in man kind.
And there is Love and Monsters, again with being alone and loosing love. this episode gave us a man who was alone and found friends only to loose them again to a Monster who absorbed them.
Damn, It just finally clicked. I now understand how this series is going to end and how it will effect the Doctor.
Damn you Russell Davies.. you are a crafty bastard.

[king mob]

Good point and really we are not used to Davies work here in the states except for the Doctor Who series. So when a show like this airs we are not sure who things are gonna go.
I personally, Like this season and look forward to seeing Torchwood later this summer.


Check out The Second Coming (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00008KAEC/202-8327771-7147821?v=glance&n=283926), Casanova (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00097HUKM/202-8327771-7147821?v=glance&n=283926) or Queer As Folk (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B000F5YYCU/202-8327771-7147821?v=glance&n=283926).

[Cyke]

.
Heck, even in an odd way, the Cybermen show this as well. A man makes the Cybermen to be all alike and immortal. Getting rid of all forms of diversity in man kind.

I think the Cyberman episodes were more about how Mickey was feeling lonely in 'our' world, due to his parents leaving, the death of his parents, and worst of all, the Doctor taking Mickey's place in the lives of the Tylers. He did stay on the parallel Earth to get a new sense of purpose, by becoming lonely and working from the ground up, rather than being torn down by the real Earth.

Come to think of it, I was quite saddened when Mickey left the group. But he popped up in the trailers for next week, so I hope he has a fairly significant role.

[tricksterpup]

I think the Cyberman episodes were more about how Mickey was feeling lonely in 'our' world, due to his parents leaving, the death of his parents, and worst of all, the Doctor taking Mickey's place in the lives of the Tylers. He did stay on the parallel Earth to get a new sense of purpose, by becoming lonely and working from the ground up, rather than being torn down by the real Earth.

Come to think of it, I was quite saddened when Mickey left the group. But he popped up in the trailers for next week, so I hope he has a fairly significant role.
Cyke, you are right, I forgot all about Mickey.. but do you see what I am talking about?
What was the theme of last season? was it Guilt? Anger? or something else. I will have to sit down and think about that and see if there was one.

[Cyke]

Cyke, you are right, I forgot all about Mickey.. but do you see what I am talking about?
What was the theme of last season? was it Guilt? Anger? or something else. I will have to sit down and think about that and see if there was one.

That's the beauty of reruns. Frankly, I've liked this season. It may not be as good as last season, but yeah, I can see where you're coming from.

[Cyke]

Cyke, you are right, I forgot all about Mickey.. but do you see what I am talking about?
What was the theme of last season? was it Guilt? Anger? or something else. I will have to sit down and think about that and see if there was one.

That's the beauty of reruns. Frankly, I've liked this season. It may not be as good as last season, but yeah, I can see where you're coming from.

[ragnarok_2012]

Cyke, you are right, I forgot all about Mickey.. but do you see what I am talking about?
What was the theme of last season? was it Guilt? Anger? or something else. I will have to sit down and think about that and see if there was one.

Well, the big mystery in Series 1 was "Bad Wolf."

I'd argue that the theme was "redemption" or "second chances."

The Doctor had survivor's guilt. I got the feeling that either he blamed himself unfairly for what happened to his people or he had to make a really hard, ruthless decision for the good of the universe.

In the season finale, the Doctor got another chance to make a cold, hard, necessary decision....and he chose morality over pragmatism.

Captain Jack was a con man. The Doctor and Rose gave him a second chance, and he turned out to be a fundamentally decent guy.

Rose and even Lynda with a y were given an opportunity by the Doctor to step outside the confines of their normal lives.

[king mob]

A visit to the BBC Doctor Who site is in order for all....

[tricksterpup]

I dont think this is a spoiler but I found this interesting.
Spoiler:
She's not Rose Tyler,not any more.
:Spoiler
I am not sure if it appeared in Fear her or if they are referring to the next episode.

[tricksterpup]

Well, the big mystery in Series 1 was "Bad Wolf."

I'd argue that the theme was "redemption" or "second chances."

The Doctor had survivor's guilt. I got the feeling that either he blamed himself unfairly for what happened to his people or he had to make a really hard, ruthless decision for the good of the universe.

In the season finale, the Doctor got another chance to make a cold, hard, necessary decision....and he chose morality over pragmatism.

Captain Jack was a con man. The Doctor and Rose gave him a second chance, and he turned out to be a fundamentally decent guy.

Rose and even Lynda with a y were given an opportunity by the Doctor to step outside the confines of their normal lives.
Those are some great points.. And I think you are correct in this. I was just pulling something off the top of my head as I wrote that previous post.

[Ontir]

A little off-topic, but this is a call for help to all Whovians, particularly the Brits: There was a sci-fi comedy series, set on a space station from the BBC, which co-starred Mollie Sugden of "Are You Being Served?" fame. What was it called?

[tricksterpup]

A little off-topic, but this is a call for help to all Whovians, particularly the Brits: There was a sci-fi comedy series, set on a space station from the BBC, which co-starred Mollie Sugden of "Are You Being Served?" fame. What was it called?
The only show that I could find was called Mandog.
Plot Outline: A trio of present-day children become involved in a conflict between a band of renegades and secret police from the 26th century.

Nope found it. Come Back Mrs. Noah

Plot Outline: A 21st century British housewife wins a visit to Britain's new space station but accidentally gets stranded up in orbit on board it with its motley crew.

[Ontir]

Thank you very much! I've only seen it once, during a pledge drive. It was run between Dr. Who in the morning, and Are You Being Served? at night on PBS>

[Jack]

That was just JAWSOME. I was grinning through a lot of the episode, which considering the day I've had, (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=132124) really says a lot.

Mickey! As a badass! Cybermen! Daleks breaking the Doctor's conceptions of reality! Torchwood revealed! Now we just need Captain Jack to come save the day (and hit on Mickey) and the world will be complete.

[Popgun]

That was just JAWSOME. I was grinning through a lot of the episode, which considering the day I've had, (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=132124) really says a lot.

Mickey! As a badass! Cybermen! Daleks breaking the Doctor's conceptions of reality! Torchwood revealed! Now we just need Captain Jack to come save the day (and hit on Mickey) and the world will be complete.

I think Captain Jack might have better luck with Jake ;) .

[The Unknown Zombie]

Well the ending was incredible (even if it was fairly obvious who the "surprise enemies" were), but what was with the Doctor's 3D glasses? :confused:

[Gaz]

Well the ending was incredible (even if it was fairly obvious who the "surprise enemies" were), but what was with the Doctor's 3D glasses? :confused:
They were "Things From Another World!", after all.:D

[king mob]

A little off-topic, but this is a call for help to all Whovians, particularly the Brits: There was a sci-fi comedy series, set on a space station from the BBC, which co-starred Mollie Sugden of "Are You Being Served?" fame. What was it called?
It was rubbish. And Are You Being Seved was everything that was wrong with British comedy in the 70's.

[king mob]

Well the ending was incredible (even if it was fairly obvious who the "surprise enemies" were), but what was with the Doctor's 3D glasses? :confused:

They looked cool.


Great episode and again Davies makes it clear he really does have things worked out and knows what he's doing.

Daleks and Cybermen fighting next week, how much more fanwanky can you get!

[lonewolf23k]

Did you guys see the Trailer for the next episode?

...And you thought the Daleks were gone for good.. HAH! The Daleks will NEVER BE GONE!

[Jack]

I don't think anyone thought the Daleks were gone for good. They're never gone for good.

I didn't see the trailer though, I want to come to the next episode fresh.

[Gaz]

They looked cool.


Great episode and again Davies makes it clear he really does have things worked out and knows what he's doing.

Daleks and Cybermen fighting next week, how much more fanwanky can you get!
I'm convinced it's the result of Russell having a drunken argument with his boyfriend...

"Daleks are better than Cybermen!"

"Are not!"

"Are so!"

"Fine then, I'm gonna sleep on the sofa!"

[rick]

Now that was a great episode.

Torchwood

Cybermen

Daleks!!!!!

All we need now is Capt. Jack and we are set for one amazing two parter.

I've got to say though, that it isn't Rose who I'm worried about dying, it's Jackie. For some reason the vibe I'm getting is pointing to her doom and not Roses.

Still, as we saw from that other Jackie, there are things worse then death.

[Spike-X]

Did you guys see the Trailer for the next episode?


No I didn't. I want everything to be a surprise next week.

Cybermen and Daleks and Torchwood. Oh my.

[The Fury]

Okay. That I did not expect.

I didn't know what to expect to appear from that thing but that was not even in consideration.

:D to the next ep. I did not look at preview so i'm going to enjoy it.

[rick]

Did they actually have a trailer for next weeks episode?

All I saw at the end was a to be continued sign and then the credits.

[king mob]

Did they actually have a trailer for next weeks episode?

All I saw at the end was a to be continued sign and then the credits.

It was after the credits.

The Daleks returning did cheer everyone up after the footy though so they have some good in them.

[rick]

It was after the credits.

The Daleks returning did cheer everyone up after the footy though so they have some good in them.


Ah, there it is.

I should have learned by now to always stay for the full credits. :)

I'm still really worried more for Jackie then for Rose though.

[tricksterpup]

Now that was a great episode.

Torchwood

Cybermen

Daleks!!!!!

All we need now is Capt. Jack and we are set for one amazing two parter.

I've got to say though, that it isn't Rose who I'm worried about dying, it's Jackie. For some reason the vibe I'm getting is pointing to her doom and not Roses.

Still, as we saw from that other Jackie, there are things worse then death.
What I am thinking is going to happen is that Jackie will die and Rose's Father as seen in the Preview will stay on Earth. I believe she will stay with him.

What I loved about this episode is that Mickey Smith is an Action Hero now!!!
See folks, he wasnt gone for long.

[Matt]

Fear Her and Love & Monsters were bollocks. Agreed? Right.

Well, this was pretty damn good. This is the sort of story that Doctor Who should almost always have - big bad guys, impossible situations, lots of technology flying around, etc

My guess is that the Genesis Ark is either Davros or a device which will transform humans into Dalek creatures in mass numbers; a genetic bomb of some sort.

[rick]

Fear Her and Love & Monsters were bollocks. Agreed? Right.

Sorry, wrong.

Okay, I'll admit that I didn't really like Fear Her, but Love & Monsters was one of the best episodes of the entire season.

[Donald M.]

In the narration of the beginning in the episode Rose was speaking of her death and the events leading up to it in the past tense.

How can this be? Is it narration from beyond the grave, or something else?

I have my own pet theory about what will happen when Rose dies. We'll see if it comes true.

If I'm wrong, possibly Mickey will become the Doctor's new full-time companion? I like the character very much, so I wouldn't object.

[Matt]

I figure she's speaking figuratively, linking back to the conversation she had with Jacki in the TARDIS - my guess is that Jacki will snuff it and that will 'kill' Rose.

[Gaz]

In the narration of the beginning in the episode Rose was speaking of her death and the events leading up to it in the past tense.

How can this be? Is it narration from beyond the grave, or something else?

I have my own pet theory about what will happen when Rose dies. We'll see if it comes true.

If I'm wrong, possibly Mickey will become the Doctor's new full-time companion? I like the character very much, so I wouldn't object.
I believe Noel is one of the writers for Torchwood, so that could speak for or against him being full-time Who.

[Gaz]

Now that was a great episode.

Torchwood

Cybermen

Daleks!!!!!

All we need now is Capt. Jack and we are set for one amazing two parter.

I've got to say though, that it isn't Rose who I'm worried about dying, it's Jackie. For some reason the vibe I'm getting is pointing to her doom and not Roses.

Still, as we saw from that other Jackie, there are things worse then death.
Jack's prolly defending Cardiff for the sake of all the hot Welsh people he hasn't yet shagged.:D

[tricksterpup]

You know, what if this is just spillage from the Time war, or from the Time War in an alternate dimension?

[ragnarok_2012]

Daleks vs. Cybermen is a decent enough idea. But I think this is what the world is truly clamoring for:

http://www.boingboing.net/images/dalekization.jpg

[Spike-X]

Did anyone else catch the reference to the captured "Jaffa sun glider"? Maybe this is all leading up to the Greatest Crossover Ever...!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/Spike-X/dalekSG-1.jpg

[Jack]

Sorry, wrong.

Okay, I'll admit that I didn't really like Fear Her, but Love & Monsters was one of the best episodes of the entire season.
I quote for the truth!

[Gaz]

Did anyone else catch the reference to the captured "Jaffa sun glider"? Maybe this is all leading up to the Greatest Crossover Ever...!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/Spike-X/dalekSG-1.jpg
Add in the fact that Ben Browder and Claudia Black are on Stargate and... and...

*nerdgasm*

[ChrisIII]

Didn't one of the Stargate recurring character actresses appear in the first season?

[Gaz]

Didn't one of the Stargate recurring character actresses appear in the first season?
Perennial henchperson Anna-Louise Plowman played Stanton's henchwoman in Dalek and played Osiris in several episodes of seasons 4 through 7 of SG-1.

[Ontir]

In the narration of the beginning in the episode Rose was speaking of her death and the events leading up to it in the past tense.

How can this be? Is it narration from beyond the grave, or something else?

I have my own pet theory about what will happen when Rose dies. We'll see if it comes true.

If I'm wrong, possibly Mickey will become the Doctor's new full-time companion? I like the character very much, so I wouldn't object.

I wonder if your theory, like my own, ties into the final ep of last season? - he said, being intentionally cryptic...

[Cephus]

What I am thinking is going to happen is that Jackie will die and Rose's Father as seen in the Preview will stay on Earth. I believe she will stay with him.

Nope, Rose is going to die. In fact, the episode started off with "this is how I died".

Good riddance to her too.

[Ontir]

I don't understand where the hatred for Rose has come from. I think she's fantastic, in fact the best since the beloved Sarah-Jane, and perhaps even better.

[king mob]

Nope, Rose is going to die. In fact, the episode started off with "this is how I died".

Good riddance to her too.


The line is "this is how she died". I also don't see why there's been so much vitriol aimed toward the Rose character since the start. It's been the most well-rounded companion in the show's history and one of the big reasons the show is a hit again.

Anyhow, the Radio Times seem to putting their priorities straight!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/images/radiotimes_13a.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/images/radiotimes_13b.jpg

[Ontir]

Naybe it's because the Doctor and Rose are so much a couple, which is really different than any other companion. She's not just a companion, she's a partner. When she said in Fear Her that nothing would split them up, never-ever. I believe she meant that, as a "'til death us do part..." sort of thing.

[DHX]

The line is "this is how she died". I also don't see why there's been so much vitriol aimed toward the Rose character since the start. It's been the most well-rounded companion in the show's history and one of the big reasons the show is a hit again.


the problem is rose is one big deus ex machina

and the fact is she's been dominating to many of the stories

its Doctor Who people! not Rose tyler: guest staring the doctor

[Ontir]

I think "Deus Ex Machina" is a BIT of a stretch. She's just more self-sufficient than any companion since Leelah, who's Mantra was "KILL IT DOCTOR!" That's what I like about her, she gets stuff done. Unlike nearly all of the other companions, she's really eager to get her hands into what's going on. She's wary enough, but committed to helping, and doesn't need to be lead by the nose, as many others did.

[DHX]

I think "Deus Ex Machina" is a BIT of a stretch. She's just more self-sufficient than any companion since Leelah, who's Mantra was "KILL IT DOCTOR!" That's what I like about her, she gets stuff done. Unlike nearly all of the other companions, she's really eager to get her hands into what's going on. She's wary enough, but committed to helping, and doesn't need to be lead by the nose, as many others did.

ace was fine, rose is not.(heck ace took on a dalek with a basebal bat and created her own explosives) rose just hangs around gets lucky and steals the show.

its not about their ability to get stuff done. its how the plot suddenly revolves around her.

when the series is being driven more by rose than the doctor you have a big, big problem

[Ontir]

Davies loves his foreshadowing, and I think there are things that pertain to the Doctor, and who he really is, that Rose is more connected to, than we currently know. I coudl be wrong, but that's my theory.

[lonewolf23k]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/images/radiotimes_13b.jpg

Woah, I didn't notice that before..

THE BLACK DALEK HAS RETURNED!

[Donald M.]

Woah, I didn't notice that before..

THE BLACK DALEK HAS RETURNED!

Dalks V. Cybermen! And oh yeah, by the way, World Cup finals.

Good to see they have their priorities straight.

[rick]

I think "Deus Ex Machina" is a BIT of a stretch. She's just more self-sufficient than any companion since Leelah, who's Mantra was "KILL IT DOCTOR!" That's what I like about her, she gets stuff done. Unlike nearly all of the other companions, she's really eager to get her hands into what's going on. She's wary enough, but committed to helping, and doesn't need to be lead by the nose, as many others did.


Yeah, I don't get the problem either.

I think that Rose is a likable, well rounded character, who does in fact hold her own against the universe, and she is a great friend and partner to the Doctor.

I will miss Billie Piper, she's been one of the best sidekicks to the Doctor, ever.

[king mob]

ace was fine, rose is not.(heck ace took on a dalek with a basebal bat and created her own explosives) rose just hangs around gets lucky and steals the show.

its not about their ability to get stuff done. its how the plot suddenly revolves around her.

when the series is being driven more by rose than the doctor you have a big, big problem


It's not been a problem though. In fact one of the BBC's worries is that the series may not be as popular without Rose and Billie which is why they played her leaving very quiet.
The character of Rose was a way for a whole new generation of viewers to get into the show, had the companion been some screaming girl or a fanboy fantasy then it would never have had the family appeal Davies and the BBC wanted.

[DHX]

i can accept there was a need for rose to be the access character.

what i cant accept is the blatant unbalance in the series. rose could of been the access character without taking over the show.

oh btw

new companion (http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2006/07_july/05/agyeman2.shtml)

[Jack]

I dreamt about Daleks and Cybermen last night.

I kept dying.

[Matt]

I'm liking the pick so far for the new companion, the actress did well in Army of Ghosts.

[king mob]

i can accept there was a need for rose to be the access character.

what i cant accept is the blatant unbalance in the series. rose could of been the access character without taking over the show.

oh btw

new companion (http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2006/07_july/05/agyeman2.shtml)


Rose never took over the show, she gave the show a backstory new viewers could relate to. If the show was filmed on videotape with Sylvester McCoy and a simpering girl companion being chased by fenric round corridors then it would have died. However the more i joke about it, the more it seems that's something some fans wanted and that would have been a total nonstarter.

Anyhow, good choice, she's a decent actress and it's time the show moved on to become different, thats part of the beauty of the show.

[Spike-X]

I'm liking the pick so far for the new companion, the actress did well in Army of Ghosts.
I wonder how they'll introduce her?

"I'm sure I've seen you somewhere before..."

"Yeah, I get that a lot."

[Jack]

I wonder how they'll introduce her?

"I'm sure I've seen you somewhere before..."

"Yeah, I get that a lot."
She's the universe's way of balancing out the Doctor. He's one person with many different faces, and she's many different people with the same face.

[DHX]

Rose never took over the show, she gave the show a backstory new viewers could relate to. If the show was filmed on videotape with Sylvester McCoy and a simpering girl companion being chased by fenric round corridors then it would have died. However the more i joke about it, the more it seems that's something some fans wanted and that would have been a total nonstarter.

Anyhow, good choice, she's a decent actress and it's time the show moved on to become different, thats part of the beauty of the show.

i'll disagree with this statement but i'm not going to argue my point. we're all entitled to believe what we believe. i believe rose took over the show, you dont. its that simple.

[Matt]

Maybe they'll do a replay of the Romana II/Princess Astra thing and the new companion will be a Time Lord... Oooooh

[rick]

I do have to say that while I'll miss Rose, I do like the lady they picked as the new companion.

Granted that the only place I've ever seen her was on last weeks show, but even at the time I definitly noticed her.

[OZZ]

I will miss Billie Piper, she's been one of the best sidekicks to the Doctor, ever.


I hear ya. I'll definitely miss her too.





As for Army of Ghosts... whoa.

Cybermen v. Daleks v. The Doctor v. Torchwood

Think we've got ourselves a nice little Battle Royal here. :D

[Cephus]

I don't understand where the hatred for Rose has come from. I think she's fantastic, in fact the best since the beloved Sarah-Jane, and perhaps even better.

As an actress, Billie Piper does a reasonably good job, however, the show has largely turned into "The Doctor and his Travelling Girlfriend" and that's really harmed the integrity of the show. One of the big elements of Dr. Who has always been that the Doctor is a man apart, someone who wants to be a part of humanity, yet can never really be because he's not only an alien, but eternal. Rose Tyler has turned into his live-in shack-up honey. It was cute in the first season but now, it's just annoying.

[Ontir]

Everything you mention about the Doctor, is still there. Despite his connection to Rose, and the one he had with Sarah-Jane, he is nearly immortal, and remains young, while they age and die. This IS an issue that they mention, and now that the Doctor is the last Timelord, it's more of an issue than ever before. If anything, Rose increases that awareness. There's nothing more painful than everything you've ever wanted, being visible, but just out of reach.

[Cephus]

Everything you mention about the Doctor, is still there. Despite his connection to Rose, and the one he had with Sarah-Jane, he is nearly immortal, and remains young, while they age and die. This IS an issue that they mention, and now that the Doctor is the last Timelord, it's more of an issue than ever before. If anything, Rose increases that awareness. There's nothing more painful than everything you've ever wanted, being visible, but just out of reach.

Sorry, the Doctor never boffed Sarah Jane. He might have cared for her, like he cared for all of his companions, but that's all they ever were, companions. They've made Rose into something more. They've made her into his girlfriend and that's just crossing the line IMO. Now, all of a sudden, Dr. Who functionally has in-laws.

No thanks, I'll pass. Kill Rose. Get someone else without the romantic connection.

[Cyke]

Sorry, the Doctor never boffed Sarah Jane. He might have cared for her, like he cared for all of his companions, but that's all they ever were, companions. They've made Rose into something more. They've made her into his girlfriend and that's just crossing the line IMO. Now, all of a sudden, Dr. Who functionally has in-laws.

No thanks, I'll pass. Kill Rose. Get someone else without the romantic connection.

The Doctor never boffed Sarah Jane, but Sarah Jane wanted to boff the Doctor, and he did feel pretty bad that Sarah Jane felt that way (and suffered from it).

But I did love the look of pride on the Doctor's face when he caught up with Sarah Jane and realized she had the same investigative spirit she always had.

[king mob]

i'll disagree with this statement but i'm not going to argue my point. we're all entitled to believe what we believe. i believe rose took over the show, you dont. its that simple.

I actually agree, the Rose character did take over the show. That was the point as it's been about Rose and how she's changed since meeting the Doctor. Sometimes that's meant her character has dominated episodes, sometimes it hasn't. Without her the show could have (and probably would have) failed. A new audience would have failed to be connected to the show and it would have been a core of fans watching it, which is exactly what killed the show the first time round.

Doctor Who used to be a massively popular show with a huge crossover audience. For various reasons it lost that and the show died and deservedly so. It's now back and the BBC have a huge hit as well as seeing the show reach a whole new generation of veiwers who can access the show thanks to the character of Rose.

The show is healthy, Rose's story is reaching an end. Rather than spitefully wishing for a type of companion which isn't workable in the 21st century, we should give thanks for how the character has given the show a new lease of life.

[Spike-X]

Sorry, the Doctor never boffed Sarah Jane. He might have cared for her, like he cared for all of his companions, but that's all they ever were, companions. They've made Rose into something more. They've made her into his girlfriend and that's just crossing the line IMO.

What "line"? Where is it written in stone that the Doctor can never, ever find a meaningful connection with another person?

No thanks, I'll pass. Kill Rose. Get someone else without the romantic connection.

"She's tainted his purity! She must diiiiiieeeeeeeee!!"

Geez.

[ragnarok_2012]

I like Rose. I think Billie Piper did a wonderful job.

I would have enjoyed her for at least another season, but so long as she gets a good send off I'm happy.

[rick]

Sorry, the Doctor never boffed Sarah Jane. He might have cared for her, like he cared for all of his companions, but that's all they ever were, companions. They've made Rose into something more. They've made her into his girlfriend and that's just crossing the line IMO. Now, all of a sudden, Dr. Who functionally has in-laws.

No thanks, I'll pass. Kill Rose. Get someone else without the romantic connection.


Excuse me, but just where exactly is it that the Doctor "boffed" Rose?

And even if their relationship is romantic, she would not be the first companion that the Doctor had more then a friendship with.

[Donald M.]

Excuse me, but just where exactly is it that the Doctor "boffed" Rose?

And even if their relationship is romantic, she would not be the first companion that the Doctor had more then a friendship with.

Thank you, I was about to ask the same thing.

Their relationship is platonic. Flirtatious, but platonic. It's not even like Rose is the first female companion the Doctor has flirted with. The Doctor may even want a romantic relationship with Rose, but he'd never let it happen. No unless something happens to drastically alter the dynamic in their relationship.

Some people don't like Rose. That's fine, everyone's entitled to their opinion. No need to start making stuff up to justify that dislike. There's a chance she'll be gone for good after the next episode anyway and the point will be moot.

[Matt]

The main reason I dislike the character of Rose is that she has turned into a self indulgent, smart ass brat. For example, while people are dying by the wagon around her thanks to a Werewolf and Killer Monks in 'Tooth & Claw', she seems far more concerned about making Queen Victoria say 'we are not amused'.

In the recent Cybermen story her idiocy resulted in herself, The Doctor and Mickey almost being killed numerous times event though the Doctor went to great lengths to tell her not to get involved.

[Ontir]

I don't know where it's said that the Doctor "boffed" Rose, this is the first I've heard of it.

OH! I see, I think genitals are the biggest and most noteable contribution from Russell T Davies to the Doctor's mythology, which takes him from being sort of an omniscient eunuch, to being more of a real person, IMHO.

As for Rose's behaviour, that wasn't her fault, it was the writers. Rose rocks!

[Cyke]

RTD said we'd see the consequences of the Doctor and Rose just going on joyrides and having fun. It's pretty interesting that Army of Ghosts is exactly because of all that.

-Doctor and Rose wanted to joyride to 1979 b/c of a concert
-the TARDIS screws up in classic fashion, bringing them to 1879
-They encounter Queen Victoria, who's so angry and fearful of them that she creates Torchwood
-because of Torchwood's scientific and research nature, they're the ones who find the dimensional rip almost two decades ago (the creation of Canary Wharf Tower)
-Torchwood kept opening the rip at regular intervals, until the ghosts could get through

Then there's the whole Dalek factor. I'm wondering if the Daleks were part of the Lumic parallel Earth, since the Cybermen didn't create the rip or the Void ship, but simply followed it through. The Daleks could've gone through to hunt down the Doctor, since they can detect TARDIS energies. But the TARDIS accidentally fell into the other dimension simply because the Doctor and Rose were joyriding across time and space again, akin to blowing out a tire.

Either way, there are three extremely powerful forces that are about to collide, and it's the Doctor's fault :)

Just some thoughts as to RTD's comments, that's all.

[king mob]

The main reason I dislike the character of Rose is that she has turned into a self indulgent, smart ass brat. For example, while people are dying by the wagon around her thanks to a Werewolf and Killer Monks in 'Tooth & Claw', she seems far more concerned about making Queen Victoria say 'we are not amused'.

In the recent Cybermen story her idiocy resulted in herself, The Doctor and Mickey almost being killed numerous times event though the Doctor went to great lengths to tell her not to get involved.

As mentioned, this is all part of the set up for Rose leaving as it's becoming clear that their actions have come to haunt them.

[Spike-X]

The main reason I dislike the character of Rose is that she has turned into a self indulgent, smart ass brat. For example, while people are dying by the wagon around her thanks to a Werewolf and Killer Monks in 'Tooth & Claw', she seems far more concerned about making Queen Victoria say 'we are not amused'.


Yeah, but that was just crap writing trying too hard to squeeze in a very unfunny running gag, more than because of any flaw in the character herself.

[Ontir]

I think the Daleks were secreted away during the time-war, so that when the dust settled, they could come back, hopefully in a universe without Timelords, and reign supreme. The rift that lead the Cybermen to the void ship, was just dumb luck for them.

[thehod]

Excuse me, but just where exactly is it that the Doctor "boffed" Rose?

OK, if the Doctor's not boffed her, can I?

[king mob]

If she shagged Chris Evans....

[Cephus]

What "line"? Where is it written in stone that the Doctor can never, ever find a meaningful connection with another person?

Then it's fundamentally not the same show any more than if you got rid of the TARDIS and had his next regeneration be into a white-haired old man with a time-travelling DeLorean.

[Cephus]

OK, if the Doctor's not boffed her, can I?

Feel free, I wouldn't touch her with a ten-meter pole.

[Jack]

Then it's fundamentally not the same show any more than if you got rid of the TARDIS and had his next regeneration be into a white-haired old man with a time-travelling DeLorean.
Wow, you just lose, don't you?

[king mob]

Then it's fundamentally not the same show any more than if you got rid of the TARDIS and had his next regeneration be into a white-haired old man with a time-travelling DeLorean.


The show has changed all the time over the last 43 years. Do you really want the show to feature a simpering girl companion running down corridors screaming?

[Cyke]

The Doctor's had a granddaughter already. *Obviously* he had a deep, meaningful connection with at least three people there (the wifey, the daughter, and Sarah Foreman).

Besides, a big part of the Ninth Doctor's angst was that his chances of a deep, meaningful connection were all but wiped out, since his family and his entire race were gone.

[Matt]

The Doctor's had a granddaughter already. *Obviously* he had a deep, meaningful connection with at least three people there (the wifey, the daughter, and Sarah Foreman).

Susan Foreman, who has already been explained.
As for the rest of the Doctor's family - we met them in Lungburrow and most of them are still alive on Gallifrey.

Lungburrow is available for free reading on the BBC website, go check it out. It's not a bad book at all.

[Cyke]

Susan Foreman, who has already been explained.
As for the rest of the Doctor's family - we met them in Lungburrow and most of them are still alive on Gallifrey.

Lungburrow is available for free reading on the BBC website, go check it out. It's not a bad book at all.

Aren't the books iffy when it comes to the TV continuity?

[Matt]

They generally count unless contradicted by the TV series. Nothing on TV has contradicted Lungburrow at all yet.

[Cyke]

I haven't read Lungbarrow, but in the End of the World, the Doctor said that Gallifrey was destroyed. If the TV show says so, then wouldn't that mean that all his cousins were destroyed as well? There was a great emphasis on the Doctor saying he was the last of the Time Lords, and that he used to have a family. I think Fear Her had a quick line by the Doctor saying that he 'used to be a father,' as well.

[Matt]

Well, yes - all his cousins would be dead along with the rest of the Time Lords.

As for being a Father ... as The Other (which different incarnations of the Doctor have better and worse memories of) he was a father and a husband.

[Cyke]

Well, yes - all his cousins would be dead along with the rest of the Time Lords.

Sorry, I think I was losing track of where this discussion was going. Nevertheless, now I've got go wiki the Other.

[Matt]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_(Doctor_Who)

The Other is a fictional character in the British science fiction television series Doctor Who. A legendary figure in Time Lord history, the Other does not appear in the television series itself, but is mentioned several times in the spin-off media based on the programme.

The Other was intended to be part of the backstory of the television series during the Seventh Doctor's tenure and part of script editor Andrew Cartmel's so-called "master plan" to restore some mystery to the character of the Doctor and eventually reveal the character's origins. Unfortunately, although hints of this backstory were liberally scattered through Seasons 25 and 26 of the series, the suspension of production in 1989 meant that the "master plan" never paid off on screen. Elements of it, however, were used as part of the background for the Virgin New Adventures line of original Doctor Who novels. Eventually, most of the details were revealed in the last Seventh Doctor New Adventure, Lungbarrow by Marc Platt.

It should be noted that, like the other spin-off media, the canonicity of the following is debatable.

The Other was first mentioned in the novelisation of Remembrance of the Daleks by Ben Aaronovitch as a shadowy figure in Time Lord history, one of the founding Triumvirate of Time Lord society after the overthrow of the cult of the Pythia that had, until then, dominated Gallifrey. The other two members of the Triumvirate were Rassilon and Omega.

Of the three, the Other's origins are the most obscure, with the circumstances of his birth and appearance being a mystery. Like Rassilon, various contradictory legends surround the Other, some hinting that he had powers surpassing that of Rassilon or Omega, and some even suggesting that he was not born on the Time Lords' home world of Gallifrey. Even his name is lost to time, which is why he is simply referred to as "the Other". A minor Gallifreyan festival known as Otherstide is celebrated yearly in his honour.

When the Pythia was overthrown, she laid a final curse on Gallifrey that made the population sterile. To ensure the continuation of their race, Rassilon created the Looms, machines that would "weave" new Gallifreyans out of extant genetic material.

Omega apparently died creating the black hole which provided the raw power needed for time travel, turning the Gallifreyans into Lords of Time. (Some accounts suggest that Rassilon misled Omega into believing he would survive this mission.) Rassilon and the Other were left to pick up the pieces, with Rassilon harnessing the nucleus of the black hole to create the Eye of Harmony and becoming virtual dictator of Time Lord civilisation. As Rassilon's rule became more oppressive, the Other knew that his own days were numbered.

The Other first ensured that his granddaughter Susan (the last child to be naturally born on Gallifrey) was safe, sending her to the spaceport to get off the planet. Then, in a last gesture of defiance against Rassilon's rule, he committed suicide by throwing himself into the Looms, mixing his genetic material into the banks.

Eons passed, and the Looms became integrated into the great Houses of Gallifrey. Eventually, a new Cousin was born to the House of Lungbarrow, who would become known as the Doctor. Disenchanted with Time Lord society, the Doctor stole a TARDIS, intending to explore the universe. However, inside he discovered that the Hand of Omega, the stellar manipulator Omega had used to create the Eye of Harmony, had followed him on board, somehow recognising inside him one of its creators. Although time travel into Gallifrey's past was strictly forbidden, the Hand overrode the locks that prevented the TARDIS from doing so and took the Doctor back to the Old Time.

There, a year after the Other had vanished into the Looms, the Doctor found Susan wandering the streets of the city — she had never made it to the spaceport. Like the Hand, although the Doctor did not look anything like the Other, Susan recognised that there was a connection, and when she addressed him as "Grandfather", both of them knew that it was somehow right. The implication was that the Other had been genetically reincarnated as the Doctor, although how much of the Other is in the Doctor and how much he remembers of his past life, if at all, is unclear. Susan and the Doctor then left in the TARDIS to travel through time and space.

The Virgin New Adventure Human Nature, by Paul Cornell, obliquely implies that the Other was a Victorian scientist who built a TARDIS-like craft and travelled to Gallifrey when its people were still primitives.

[Matt]

As a quick reminder, the new series starts here in Australia in about an hour with The Christmas Invasion.

[Spike-X]

As a quick reminder, the new series starts here in Australia in about an hour with The Christmas Invasion.
Ironically enough, I'd almost forgotten about that! Too busy anticipating watching the series finale when it "arrives" *nudge nudge, wink wink* some time tomorrow.

[shades of eternity]

Rose never took over the show, she gave the show a backstory new viewers could relate to. If the show was filmed on videotape with Sylvester McCoy and a simpering girl companion being chased by fenric round corridors then it would have died.




If you would have chosen just about any other doctor, I'd probably let it slide, but mccoy main "simpering girl companion" was ace, a lass known for high grade explosives, taking out Dalek's with a baseball bat and cyberman with a sling shot.

not exactly a "simpering girl companion" and one of the best doctor's companions of all time.

and for the record, no contest. I actually prefered jack of the two companions of the ecclinson years. haven't seen the new doc yet, but we'll see.

[king mob]

Fuck me that was quite wonderful. Daleks, Cybermen, Time Lord prisons spewing Daleks, dimension jumps, all manner of fun.A fine end for Billie and a nice cliffhanger for the Christmas show. Though its looking like a comedy as its featuring Catherine Tate and is called The Runaway Bride.

So in short, smashing. Plus Davies makes sure the Daleks are not totally wiped out....

[king mob]

If you would have chosen just about any other doctor, I'd probably let it slide, but mccoy main "simpering girl companion" was ace, a lass known for high grade explosives, taking out Dalek's with a baseball bat and cyberman with a sling shot.

not exactly a "simpering girl companion" and one of the best doctor's companions of all time.


Two words.

Bonnie Langford.

[DHX]

i was mildly disapointed i knew they werent going to kill rose but i held out a tiny shred of hope that russell t davis would have the balls to do it.:p

[DHX]

Two words.

Bonnie Langford.

one word:

BULL

melanie bush's time with the seventh doctor: 14 episodes

Ace's time with the seventh doctor: 31 episodes

Melanie bush was not the seventh doctors main companion Ace was.

DONT start twisting things to suit you.

[king mob]

The Daleks and Cybermen doing a "my dads bigger than your dad" routine was great. As for the end, yes it was sentimental but it was nicely done and wrapped up Rose's story allowing the show to move on.

[king mob]

one word:

BULL

melanie bush's time with the seventh doctor: 14 episodes

Ace's time with the seventh doctor: 31 episodes

Melanie bush was not the seventh doctors main companion Ace was.

DONT start twisting things to suit you.

Crikey, calm down there.

The fact of the matter is the show suffered from poor companions and too many of them were made to be silly girls who got into trouble so the Doctor could save them. This is something the new series has tried to avoid and it's been much the better for it.

The McCoy years were not great. They were the nail in the coffin of the show along with the naff guest appearances (something Davies seems keen to repeat with Catherine Tate) and the overuse of continuity which alienated the casual viewer. In short it became a show for fans only and lost the crossover appeal which made the show it was in the 60's and 70's.

The loss of the Rose character and story is the new series biggest challenge. We won't know til next year if Davies manages to rise to it.

[Jack]

Man, the Daleks had some GREAT lines.

"You would destroy the Cybermen with four Daleks?"
"No. We would destroy the Cybermen with one Dalek."

[Gaz]

Man, the Daleks had some GREAT lines.

"You would destroy the Cybermen with four Daleks?"
"No. We would destroy the Cybermen with one Dalek."
"YOU ARE SUPERIOR IN ONLY ONE RESPECT. YOU ARE BETTER AT DYING."

[DHX]

Crikey, calm down there.

The fact of the matter is the show suffered from poor companions and too many of them were made to be silly girls who got into trouble so the Doctor could save them. This is something the new series has tried to avoid and it's been much the better for it.

The McCoy years were not great. They were the nail in the coffin of the show along with the naff guest appearances (something Davies seems keen to repeat with Catherine Tate) and the overuse of continuity which alienated the casual viewer. In short it became a show for fans only and lost the crossover appeal which made the show it was in the 60's and 70's.

The loss of the Rose character and story is the new series biggest challenge. We won't know til next year if Davies manages to rise to it.

the fact of the matter is mccoy didnt have a simpering companion for most of his run. so that argument fails if bonnie langford was his companion for most of the last three seasons before the series ended your argument would have weight

you know thinking about it there is no point in arguing with you over this. i liked the mccoy years i thought the stories were great not naff/ it was put up against bloody corrie and the decline in viewing figures started before the seventh doctor.

it seems we are diametrically opposed in what we liked/disliked.

oh by the way. Never tell me to calm down. i'm calm already.

[Ontir]

What's your definition of "simpering," because it's not a word I'd ever equate with Rose Tyler. People go on and on about Ace, but I much preferred Mel, or even Peri, who had the weirdest write-out of any companion, I think.

One of the great things about the Rose story, is that the Doctor has repeatedly brought her back to her Mom, which I think also speaks to the Doctor's sense of personal loss. Previously, everyone who mattered were out there, and could be reached whenever wanted. He now has a greater sense that that's not always going to be. The other great thing it does, is take the series back to an "everyday" base, which allows new viewers to jump in at an easily relatable point, and carry forward from there.

[king mob]

the fact of the matter is mccoy didnt have a simpering companion for most of his run. so that argument fails if bonnie langford was his companion for most of the last three seasons before the series ended your argument would have weight

you know thinking about it there is no point in arguing with you over this. i liked the mccoy years i thought the stories were great not naff/ it was put up against bloody corrie and the decline in viewing figures started before the seventh doctor.

it seems we are diametrically opposed in what we liked/disliked.

oh by the way. Never tell me to calm down. i'm calm already.

Calm people don't need to bold words, they use itallics.

Anyhow, yes you are right, the show was in decline before McCoy thanks to the BBC being a bit fed up with it and moving it across schedules in order to try to stick the knife in it so they could cancel it.
One of the problems was the show never helped itself by being so bleeding dismal in terms of script. Plus as said, it had lost (for various reasons) most of it's audience and it was boiling down to the hardcore fans of the show.

I hated the McCoy years. Lots. A friend got me to watch some of the DVD's recently and i may have been too harsh on his later years as they were much better than i remember them being at the time. However the damage was done, the show needed a huge revamp. The only shame is it took so long for it to happen.

My comments were jokey in that there is a section of Who fans who would like to see the show as it was in it's last few years. One needs only to look at Outpost Gallifrey or any fansite to see how vocal these fans are. They don't want change, they want the show to cater to them and them alone and they let it be known how much they hate the new series with it's 'emotional' stuff (or 'characterisation as it's known to some people) and the Doctor having feelings (or 'depth' as its known to some people) for those around him.

The new show isn't perfect and Davies allows himself too many indulgences (the jarring Catherine Tate cliffhanger cut too quickly into the post Rose scene) but he's done a great job so far by trying to do as much as he can to recreate the mass appeal that the show once had.

[DHX]

What's your definition of "simpering," because it's not a word I'd ever equate with Rose Tyler. People go on and on about Ace, but I much preferred Mel, or even Peri, who had the weirdest write-out of any companion, I think.

One of the great things about the Rose story, is that the Doctor has repeatedly brought her back to her Mom, which I think also speaks to the Doctor's sense of personal loss. Previously, everyone who mattered were out there, and could be reached whenever wanted. He now has a greater sense that that's not always going to be. The other great thing it does, is take the series back to an "everyday" base, which allows new viewers to jump in at an easily relatable point, and carry forward from there.

i wouldnt equate simpering with rose however King Mob in a broad stroke equated it with Ace.

but i will stand by my assertion that rose was over done. i dont deny she's entertaining, or that its a good idea to have the doctor bring her home to reconnect. but there was just something which frustrated me about the way it was done, a slight refining at one or two points a little more focus on the doctor here and there and i would of been fine with it all, i think parting of ways helped cement my bias against rose. now with freema i'm hoping RTD tries something different. it would not do the series well to repeat the same formula twice, deja vu and all that.

[king mob]

What's your definition of "simpering," because it's not a word I'd ever equate with Rose Tyler. People go on and on about Ace, but I much preferred Mel, or even Peri, who had the weirdest write-out of any companion, I think.

Simpering is one adjective you would never use for the Rose character.

One of the great things about the Rose story, is that the Doctor has repeatedly brought her back to her Mom, which I think also speaks to the Doctor's sense of personal loss. Previously, everyone who mattered were out there, and could be reached whenever wanted. He now has a greater sense that that's not always going to be. The other great thing it does, is take the series back to an "everyday" base, which allows new viewers to jump in at an easily relatable point, and carry forward from there.


You've pinned down why the show regained its mass appeal in the bit i bolded there. Yes it is soap opera but soap opera is the most widely watched genre of TV and it's 'everyday' nature is why a good soap is easily accessable.

My worry now is that now Rose and her entire cast of supporting characters are gone, that the show may lose part of that appeal. The Runaway Bride looks like a lightweight show for Christmas so we will have to see how the new companion fits in next year.

[shades of eternity]

personally if they want to make things really interesting, bring back the dalek from dalek and make him the companion of the doctor.

a corrupted dalek would definately throw it for a spin.

I can agree that the damsel in distress is a serious pain sometimes in doctor who and it is magnified even further by the fact that most companions are female.

However There have been quite a few strong female characters. Besides ace (easily my favorite companion), there was also romana (another time lord), and Leela of the Sevateem, which show it is possible.

Personally, with all of space and time to draw on they could have a chance to have some seriously original characters

[Ontir]

I think a bereft and depressed Dalek could be interesting!

"Extermina... oh, why bother? Just get on with it then..."

The other thing, is that with a Dalek, given how many of this extinct race have shown up, when the Doctor runs across more, the Dalek's loylties would be called into question.

I think it'd be really interesting to see Turlough return. He was always shifty and double-dealing, and to see he and the Doctro reunited could be fun, not to mention dangerous.

[shades of eternity]

man, I haven't thought about him since the 5th doctor.

yes a shifty eyed guy would be a fun addition.

but I still say the best would be a bitter susan who has been spliced with time lord dna and has a chip on her shoulder against her...grandfather :D

and have the valeyard show up.

[Matt]

The McCoy years were not great. They were the nail in the coffin of the show along with the naff guest appearances (something Davies seems keen to repeat with Catherine Tate) and the overuse of continuity which alienated the casual viewer.

The early McCoy stories were, all would agree, rubbish. However, the later ones such as Ghost Light, Remembrance of the Daleks, Survival and Curse of Fenric were pretty damn good - some of the best Who stories ever produced.

[DHX]

The early McCoy stories were, all would agree, rubbish. However, the later ones such as Ghost Light, Remembrance of the Daleks, Survival and Curse of Fenric were pretty damn good - some of the best Who stories ever produced.
thank you for reminding me why i like the seventh doctor:D

[Ontir]

man, I haven't thought about him since the 5th doctor.

yes a shifty eyed guy would be a fun addition.

but I still say the best would be a bitter susan who has been spliced with time lord dna and has a chip on her shoulder against her...grandfather :D

and have the valeyard show up.

Maybe Turlough, ever the turncoat, could be working FOR the Valeyard!

Susan, IIRC, got married in the 30th century, and had kids. It would be cool to see the current Doctor find Susan and have his great-great-grandchild become a new companion. It would also eliminate the pesky romantic element. :rolleyes:

[Spike-X]

I think a bereft and depressed Dalek could be interesting!

"Extermina... oh, why bother? Just get on with it then..."

Marvin the Paranoid Dalek?

[Matt]

Susan, IIRC, got married in the 30th century, and had kids.

The way I heard it, she remained married to David (the man she fell for in The Dalek Invasion of Earth) and was happy. Then the Master came along and hatched one of his little schemes which resulted in David being killed and him kidnapping Susan and dragging her into his TARDIS.

Susan, rather angry over her husband's death, overcame the Master and badly wounded him - before dumping him on a lifeless planetoid in a near death state after which she took off again in the Master's TARDIS.

The Master remained there until he was found by a certain Chancellor Goth and together they plotted to kill the Time Lord President...

[rick]

As for the McCoy years I actually enjoyed his entire run, including those early, truthfully, dumb stories. But then again I enjoyed quite a bit of the Colin Baker run, so there is simply no accounting for my taste.

Still, Rose is a great character and I will miss her.

Of course I'm still waiting for my magic crystal radio set to finish loading up the damm season final so I can see what actually happened.

[shades of eternity]

For all of the grumbling of the collin baker years, it has one of the greatest story arcs in all whodom: Trial of a Time Lord.

Collin's biggest flaw was having the same last name as an actor whom is a whovian god.

[rick]

For all of the grumbling of the collin baker years, it has one of the greatest story arcs in all whodom: Trial of a Time Lord.

Collin's biggest flaw was having the same last name as an actor whom is a whovian god.


I feel the same way.

The Colin Baker years were not perfect. But at the same time I can think of several stories from the era that I really enjoyed, and not just the Trial either. Heck that era even had one of my of my all time favorites, the Two Doctors.

And to go even further, I have to say that I actually enjoyed Colin Baker, a bit more then I liked the Peter Davison era.

So I won't ever say that I think he was the worst Doctor.

[Cyke]

Sweet merciful crap. Why are we taking about past Doctors? What happened to the awesomeness that was Doomsday?!

It really was epic on a scale, both cosmic and emotional, that's rarely done on TV. Of course, leave it to Doctor Who to tackle both in stride.

One thing that gets to me: the kind of emotion that the Doctor showed after losing contact with Rose, right when he was about to say *something* significant -- the Tenth Doctor is easily the most immature of all the Doctors, but it hit me that because of that immaturity, he'd also be the quickest to sadness, and would be hit by sorrow like no other Doctor. It's so bloody wonderful that RTD would think of that detail. Every incarnation of the Doctor has their own traits, personalities, and powers unique to their own; this episode proved that the Tenth is unique as well.

Oh, and the Time Lord technology turning out to be a TARDIS-prison? Absolute GENIUS.

[Haydn C]

Very very good episode.

Another great example of why I feel employing quality actors in the show pays of handsomely. That scene with Rose on one side of the wall and the Doctor on the other was just special. No words needed and Tennants ability made it a heartbreaking moment.

Roll on Xmas.

[Haydn C]

Oh, and the Time Lord technology turning out to be a TARDIS-prison? Absolute GENIUS.

Indeed it was. I spent a week trying to figure out what was in there, is it Davros, is it another time lord? Oh no, even better than that.

[Matt]

he'd also be the quickest to sadness, and would be hit by sorrow like no other Doctor.

Oh, I don't know. The 7th Doctor was known to shed a tear, specifically at the end of Only Human (which is a great read, btw, and available for free on the BBC website) and he was scared that because of his actions he'd be going to Hell upon his death, despite working for the greater good.

As for Doomsday...
The first 35 or so minutes were pretty great, though a greater focus on the Cybermen vs Daleks conflict would have been nice. Then the breach was sealed and everyone took a bit of a slide; Roses' goodbye went on a bit too long and I think the bit with the Bride will leave non-British folk going "Huh?"

Who is Catherine Tate? I get the feeling that it's the identity of the actress that lends that bit some surprise value and ... well, I don't think that scene worked well at all.

[king mob]

Very very good episode.

Another great example of why I feel employing quality actors in the show pays of handsomely. That scene with Rose on one side of the wall and the Doctor on the other was just special. No words needed and Tennants ability made it a heartbreaking moment.


That was a nicely played scene and yes, getting good actors in for the show does pay off. Though the Geordie CBBC guy came back and yet again got on my tits.

I watched it again this morning and one thing that's clearer on a second viewing is just how rushed the show is. The story needed a wee bit more breathing space so a three parter would have helped.

That aside the highlights is still the Daleks and Cyberman squaring up to each other like a pair of drunks on a Friday night-"come ya metal bassstaaarrdds, come and have a go if you think you're harrrrddd enough ya fuckkkerrs".





Roll on Xmas.

Indeed. A proper full on comedy episode would be perfect Christmas Day viewing after the turkey and 12 tins of Stella.

[king mob]

Indeed it was. I spent a week trying to figure out what was in there, is it Davros, is it another time lord? Oh no, even better than that.


Davies has said he'd never, ever use Davros as it would mean he's ran out of ideas to make the Daleks scary and powerful. And he has a point, Davros worked really well once and then became overused and diminished the Daleks in the process.

Though i'd like a season without Daleks next year, they need a rest.

[king mob]

Who is Catherine Tate? I get the feeling that it's the identity of the actress that lends that bit some surprise value and ... well, I don't think that scene worked well at all.


Catherine Tate is a British comedian who tends to split opinion down the middle. You either think she's wildly funny and plays up 21st Century Britain perfectly in her comedy, or that she's overused, unfunny and has worn out the catchphrase "am i bovvered" and then overused it again to make us hate her even more.

She's actually a good comedy actress but her comedy show leaves me cold as it's a variation of Little Britain but without the comedy racism.

[Haydn C]

Davies has said he'd never, ever use Davros as it would mean he's ran out of ideas to make the Daleks scary and powerful. And he has a point, Davros worked really well once and then became overused and diminished the Daleks in the process.

Though i'd like a season without Daleks next year, they need a rest.

Thanks I didn't know that, it make sense. The biggest surprise for me last night was when I mentioned Davros my wife knew who I was talking about! I had to have a drink to regain my composure.

I would have liked to see Captain Jack last night but maybe that will be an Xmas treat.

[Donald M.]

I would have liked to see Captain Jack last night but maybe that will be an Xmas treat.

Isn't Torchwood featuring Captain Jack set to premier in October?

[king mob]

Isn't Torchwood featuring Captain Jack set to premier in October?


Yup, October on BBC3. My friend in Cardiff is trying to sneak herself on set to molest John Barrowman.

[Haydn C]

Isn't Torchwood featuring Captain Jack set to premier in October?

I believe so. I just thought they might have reintoduced his character in this episode with this in mind but as king mob said the episode was already very crowded another plot thread would have pushed it over the edge.

Does anyone know if Torchwood will be set in what is now the Doctors universe or Rose's? I assume the Doctors.

[Donald M.]

Does anyone know if Torchwood will be set in what is now the Doctors universe or Rose's? I assume the Doctors.

You assume correctly.

[Haydn C]

You assume correctly.


Thank you very much.

[Matt]

I just put a full review thing of the ep, with screen caps, on my blog if anyone's interested. I'd post it here but it's long...

But you all know my general opinion of the ep anyhow. Heh.

[king mob]

The Daleks last night reminded me of Victor Lewis Smith's version. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWiq-0rf_bA&search=gay%20daleks)

[lonewolf23k]

I just put a full review thing of the ep, with screen caps, on my blog if anyone's interested. I'd post it here but it's long...

But you all know my general opinion of the ep anyhow. Heh.


Interesting. Looks like the New Cybermen really aren't a match for the Daleks.

[Matt]

Interesting. Looks like the New Cybermen really aren't a match for the Daleks.

Correct. They pretty much got slaughtered. Lots of Cybermen fell while not one Dalek died.

[Web of Fear]

Who is Catherine Tate? I get the feeling that it's the identity of the actress that lends that bit some surprise value and ... well, I don't think that scene worked well at all.

I think that little scene at the end worked really well. Rather than the last scenes being of both Rose and the Doctor crying and the Doctor wandering off alone again, and it all being rather downbeat, the surprise and comedy lifted the tone nicely, giving everyone something to look forward to.

[rick]

Okay, now that was a great episode.

I truly enjoyed watching the Daleks kick some Cybermen butt. Thought that the tearjerker scenes (all 5 of them) came across brilliantly. Felt that they found a perfect way to write Rose off the series that was both poignant but not too tragic. And was really happy with the sudden and upbeat ending.

So how many days until Christmas?

[The Fury]

I really liked this episode...except the Rose stuff. She's more concerned about the Doctor then ehr mum?....okay. I never did like the whole crush thing she had going.

[OZZ]

Fantastic!!

God I'm loving this new Who series.

I hope Tennant stays the Doctor for a long time. He's quickly become my favorite. :D


Not much else to say that hasn't already been said (and even a little too much, especially centered in the whine department if you know what I mean).

But man... We have to wait for Xmas now?! :(


Torchwood better be good for a fill in the meantime. :p

[drwho]

Can someone spoil the last episode of season 2 for me? Would be much appreciated.

[ragnarok_2012]

Can someone spoil the last episode of season 2 for me? Would be much appreciated.

The cliffhanger had 4 Daleks escape the Void Ship and 5 MILLION Cybermen jump the breach between parallel worlds. Rose, Mickey and the Torchwood guy were trapped in a room with the Daleks.

Well, Rose immediately says "You're Daleks. How can I know your name, and about the Time War?" Rose and Mickey manage to bluff their way into survival. Torchwood guy, unfortunately, gets killed when the Daleks pump every bit of data out of his nervous system.

The Cybermen are not a match for the Daleks. On, and the Daleks have something called the Genesis Ark. They need for it to be touched by a time traveller for it to open. I don't know if they realize what it is exactly. It was built by the Time Lords.

Mickey and Rose escape the Daleks eventually, but in doing so Mickey (who has travelled in time) touches the Ark. It opens....and it turns out to be a prison ship holding millions of Daleks.

Pete (the alternate version of Rose's Dad) takes an alternate Earth team of Torchwood operatives across the breach. Along the way, he and Jackie fall in love.

All this jumping between worlds starts doing damage on Pete's world (and will soon cause damage to the regular universe). The Doctor has to repair the damage and defeat the Cybermen and Daleks. So he opens a portal to the Void (aka Hell) that will suck everybody into it that has jumped between parallel worlds.

The 3-D glasses are finally explained: it allows him to see a green residue on everybody that's jumped parallel realities.

The Doctor is going to hold onto something and resist the pull into the Void. He wants Rose, Jackie, Mickey and the parallel Torchwood team to jump back to Pete's World for their safety. Rose refuses. So the Doctor and Rose end up holding onto something as the Daleks and Cybermen get pulled into the Void.

The portal, unfortunately, starts to close again. Rose lets go to re-open the portal. When she starts to fall into the Void, by some miraculous circumstance Pete jumps back and takes her to his world.

Now Rose is stuck on the parallel Earth.

She begins hearing the Doctor's voice in her dreams. She asks her mom, Pete and Mickey to take her on a journey to find where the voice is coming from. The Doctor found one last hole and is transmitting a message through it. When she gets to "Bad Wolf Bay" she is able to communicate with a holgram of the Doctor. The Doctor is burning up a super nova for the energy to say goodbye.

Rose says "I love you." The Doctor loses his connection before he can finish saying "I love you."

(Oh, and Jackie is pregnant with Pete's child, and Rose is going to work for parallel Earth Torchwood)

Then a British actress that I presume to be Catherine Tate is in a wedding dress inside the TARDIS. This is a lead-in to the Christmas Show


EDIT: added spoiler tags at the implied request of Ontir.

[Ontir]

If you type a "[" and a "]" with the word "spoil" at the beginning, and "/spoil" at the end, the spoilers in the middle go invisible, until dragged over. That way, those who didn't want to be spoiled, aren't.

Fortunately, I waited until I'd seen the episode, in expectation of such an event, or I'd be truly pissed!

Over all, I'm happy enough with it. It wasn't the ending I wanted, but @ least she isn't dead! The epilogue leading into "the Runaway Bride" was interesting, though I'm wondering when she ran in, and how long she's been knocking about the TARDIS?

[ragnarok_2012]

If you type a "[" and a "]" with the word "spoil" at the beginning, and "/spoil" at the end, the spoilers in the middle go invisible, until dragged over. That way, those who didn't want to be spoiled, aren't.

Fortunately, I waited until I'd seen the episode, in expectation of such an event, or I'd be truly pissed!

Over all, I'm happy enough with it. It wasn't the ending I wanted, but @ least she isn't dead! The epilogue leading into "the Runaway Bride" was interesting, though I'm wondering when she ran in, and how long she's been knocking about the TARDIS?

I am aware of this. Thank you for the information.

[Spike-X]

If you type a "[" and a "]" with the word "spoil" at the beginning, and "/spoil" at the end, the spoilers in the middle go invisible, until dragged over. That way, those who didn't want to be spoiled, aren't.

Yes, we know how spoiler tags work. Do you know how *spoiler* threads work?

Fortunately, I waited until I'd seen the episode, in expectation of such an event, or I'd be truly pissed!

Pissed at yourself for clicking on a *spoiler* thread when you didn't want to see spoilers?

[Cephus]

I would have liked to see Captain Jack last night but maybe that will be an Xmas treat.

One of the reasons Captain Jack didn't show up is because they've made it very clear that the Cardiff Torchwood is nothing whatsoever like the one we saw in Dr. Who. It really wouldn't have made sense to have him walking through something that I suspect he'd have had a major problem with.

[Cephus]

Pissed at yourself for clicking on a *spoiler* thread when you didn't want to see spoilers?

Pretty much. The whole thread is marked as (*spoilers*) so I don't see anyone having the right to complain.

I liked the episode. It was nice seeing the Daleks fighting the Cybermen, although I'm not at all surprised that the Cybermen got their clocks cleaned, after all they're just human technology from another universe whereas the Daleks have been around for a long, long, long time and should be superior in every way, which they were.

Thank goodness Rose is gone. Please never, ever, ever find a way to bring her back. Can we get back to Dr. Who? I'm so tired of watching the Rose Tyler Show, with special guest star, The Doctor.

[Cyke]

One of the reasons Captain Jack didn't show up is because they've made it very clear that the Cardiff Torchwood is nothing whatsoever like the one we saw in Dr. Who. It really wouldn't have made sense to have him walking through something that I suspect he'd have had a major problem with.

My only real problem with the Torchwood spinoff is that Yvonne died, obviously meaning that she won't be leading Torchwood when Capt. Jack comees by. She seemed like a pretty awesome boss. A bit stubborn and a tad short-sighted, but hey, she was a people person :)

I liked the episode. It was nice seeing the Daleks fighting the Cybermen, although I'm not at all surprised that the Cybermen got their clocks cleaned, after all they're just human technology from another universe whereas the Daleks have been around for a long, long, long time and should be superior in every way, which they were.

There's a small line in the episode (when the Cybermen and the Daleks are trying to get each other to identify themselves first) where the Daleks recognize the Cybermen, even though they're from the parallel Earth. The Daleks would have to judge from their encounters with the real universe's Cybermen and they already deemed them as inferior. I love that :)

[king mob]

Thank goodness Rose is gone. Please never, ever, ever find a way to bring her back. Can we get back to Dr. Who? I'm so tired of watching the Rose Tyler Show, with special guest star, The Doctor.


Had Rose, or Bille Piper, never been in the show it's doubtful it would have succeeded. Rose was a way for new viewers (of which they are many) to get to know the show without having a lecture on the history of the show. The first two series have been Rose's story and now that's over they don't need to have someone there to give viewers a point of entry into the show.

I understand the "it's not MY Doctor Who" attitude but you should realise this is a mass audience show paid for by us license payers. This is a whole new generations Doctor Who ( a mate at work said his daughter spent Saturday night crying because of the end, poor thing) and on the whole they love it. I passed a playground last week with kids playing Daleks & Cyberman! Young girls see Rose and Billie as role models. That's the best of all worlds and long may it last because it's helping regenerate British television drama and we've needed something to kick our creative arses back in gear for ages.

[Ontir]

I'll have to re-watch the show, but are we sure she's dead? A turn-coat cyberwoman would be an interesting addition to the Torchwood team!

We also know from "the Christmas Invasion," that Torchwood was undermanned at that time, and now they've had almost the whole of the London Contingent wiped out, so the Cardiff Branch is going to be under more pressure.

[king mob]

There's a small line in the episode (when the Cybermen and the Daleks are trying to get each other to identify themselves first) where the Daleks recognize the Cybermen, even though they're from the parallel Earth. The Daleks would have to judge from their encounters with the real universe's Cybermen and they already deemed them as inferior. I love that :)


I love the Dad's Army moment. Paraphrased slightly.....

Cybermen:Identify yoursel

Dalek:You Identify yourself

Cybermen:We said identify yourself first

Dalek: Daleks do not...oh bollocks

Cybermen: Daleks, eh

[tricksterpup]

My only real problem with the Torchwood spinoff is that Yvonne died, obviously meaning that she won't be leading Torchwood when Capt. Jack comees by. She seemed like a pretty awesome boss. A bit stubborn and a tad short-sighted, but hey, she was a people person :)

We have to remember that Jack is stuck in the Future. So he will be with a much different Torchwood when he appears.

[Gaz]

We have to remember that Jack is stuck in the Future. So he will be with a much different Torchwood when he appears.
Um, no, he's in present-day (or close to) Cardiff.

[DHX]

Had Rose, or Bille Piper, never been in the show it's doubtful it would have succeeded. Rose was a way for new viewers (of which they are many) to get to know the show without having a lecture on the history of the show. The first two series have been Rose's story and now that's over they don't need to have someone there to give viewers a point of entry into the show.

I understand the "it's not MY Doctor Who" attitude but you should realise this is a mass audience show paid for by us license payers. This is a whole new generations Doctor Who ( a mate at work said his daughter spent Saturday night crying because of the end, poor thing) and on the whole they love it. I passed a playground last week with kids playing Daleks & Cyberman! Young girls see Rose and Billie as role models. That's the best of all worlds and long may it last because it's helping regenerate British television drama and we've needed something to kick our creative arses back in gear for ages.


you know something? stop needling people over their dislike of rose. its getting tired. i really dont think anyone is attacking those who loved rose over the fact but some of you are going out of your way to tell off/leap on those that hate her. we have to explain why we disliked her, we have to put up with you tell us without her the series would have failed it's irritating.

the fact of the matter is dispite the new audience, the entrance factor and what not, when rose becomes becomes more important than doctor who to you, that you have to leap on everyone who's glad she's gone you have a problem. in fact rose should never of been allowed to be come so intrigal to the series that people are worried about the fact she's gone and believe the show will fail.

[tricksterpup]

Um, no, he's in present-day (or close to) Cardiff.
Interesting how does he get back in time?? Cause the last time we saw him, wasn't he stuck in the Future on Satellite Five in the year 200,100? I think the show is going to take place during this time frame in Cardiff.

[king mob]

you know something? stop needling people over their dislike of rose. its getting tired. i really dont think anyone is attacking those who loved rose over the fact but some of you are going out of your way to tell off/leap on those that hate her. we have to explain why we disliked her, we have to put up with you tell us without her the series would have failed it's irritating.

the fact of the matter is dispite the new audience, the entrance factor and what not, when rose becomes becomes more important than doctor who to you, that you have to leap on everyone who's glad she's gone you have a problem. in fact rose should never of been allowed to be come so intrigal to the series that people are worried about the fact she's gone and believe the show will fail.

Just saying "i don't like Rose, she should die" is churlish though isn't it. I've seen some good rationales as to why she shouldn't have been on the show but few have come from this board. The fact is the show wouldn't have been a success without the character, you just state that the show 'isn't right'; basically its another version of "I want MY Doctor Who" you see on OG a lot.

As i've said, the new series is not perfect, there are problems, it is however minor ones and they don't spoil my, or millions of others, from watching the show and enjoying it. One has to ask that if you hate wathcing the show because of Rose then why did you put yourself through such pain?

As for whether she became too 'intrigal' to the show, yes, she probably did but for a good reason as i've said. Will the show fail without her? No, probably not unless Davies really fucks it up which i hope he doesn't.

What I find is that a lot of the criticism aimed at Rose/Billie is quite mysoginsitic, now not saying that's the case here (some of the stuff on OG has been simply vile at times) but certainly some of the language borders upon it at times. So please by all means explain and give good reasons why you find the Rose character annoying but simply saying "she's more important that teh doctor and thats not right!!!!" isn't having a discussion, it's stating your opinion without you giving any reason to support it.

The show has moved on from the one i first saw in the early 70's and from whenever you first saw it, a lot of the change has been for good and bad reasons. The new show has provided (mainly) change for the good and brought back something missing from British telly which was once essential and is now back to it's former glory. The show is moving forward and we, as fans, should be grateful of that.

[king mob]

Interesting how does he get back in time?? Cause the last time we saw him, wasn't he stuck in the Future on Satellite Five in the year 200,100? I think the show is going to take place during this time frame in Cardiff.

It's present day but apparently we won't be told right away how Jack travels back in time.

[Web of Fear]

On the BBC's Doctor Who homepage, http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/ there's this rather haunting peice of music being played. It's played in the last episode where Rose and family are setting out to meet the Doctor. Can anyone tell me what it is? Was it composed for the episode, or is it one of the tracks listed on the Confidential page http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/confidential/?

Any info appreciated. Thanks.

[Haydn C]

On the BBC's Doctor Who homepage, http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/ there's this rather haunting peice of music being played. It's played in the last episode where Rose and family are setting out to meet the Doctor. Can anyone tell me what it is? Was it composed for the episode, or is it one of the tracks listed on the Confidential page http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/confidential/?

Any info appreciated. Thanks.

They've been using little snatches of that tune throughout the series. I don't hink it's on that list though. Not very helpful I know.

[Ontir]

It seemed to me, to be a rather mournful, even haunting re-working of the show's theme.

[Gaz]

It seemed to me, to be a rather mournful, even haunting re-working of the show's theme.
Yeah, it's at the very least based on it. They've used parts of it when doing big mythology moments too, like Sarah Jane finding the TARDIS.

[Web of Fear]

They've been using little snatches of that tune throughout the series. I don't hink it's on that list though. Not very helpful I know.

That's fine. I rather suspected it was composed for the show, and now you say it's been used elsewhere, I can seem to remember that being the case. I think that this is the first time I've heard the music with no images to distract. Thanks.

[Web of Fear]

It seemed to me, to be a rather mournful, even haunting re-working of the show's theme.

Now you mention it ...

[lonewolf23k]

Thank goodness Rose is gone. Please never, ever, ever find a way to bring her back. Can we get back to Dr. Who? I'm so tired of watching the Rose Tyler Show, with special guest star, The Doctor.

The thing is, while Doctor Who is fun to watch, he's a rather inhuman character when you get down to it. He needs a human companion for us to relate to, and a cute female human is easier to identify with then other kinds of characters.

While you may not have liked Rose, lots of other people did, and could relate to her easily enough. She was the viewer identification character, and now that she's gone, she'll have to be replaced quickly.

[Popgun]

On the BBC's Doctor Who homepage, http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/ there's this rather haunting peice of music being played. It's played in the last episode where Rose and family are setting out to meet the Doctor. Can anyone tell me what it is? Was it composed for the episode, or is it one of the tracks listed on the Confidential page http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/confidential/?

Any info appreciated. Thanks.

I believe that's a reworking of the section of Murray Gold's score that RTD and co call "President Flavia's Theme", used when things get spooky and "timelordy" (RTD's words).

[Ontir]

When you think about it, the end of Rose's run was one of the happiest endings any companion ever got! Most of them end up marrooned, alone someplace, either distant from, or cut off from family. Rose ended up with her boyfriend who now has direction AND his grandmother, Rose got her BOTH parents AND a new sibling. I only wish that when he asked if Rose was pregnant, that she'd said, "You're not the last Timelord anymore!"

[Cyke]

We have to remember that Jack is stuck in the Future. So he will be with a much different Torchwood when he appears.

From the looks of all the preview media, it looks like Torchwood would be in set in modern times, if not the near-future. Besides, future or not, I would've liked to have seen Yvonne lead the Cardiff Branch, or at least be a recurring character from the London Branch.

[Cephus]

Had Rose, or Bille Piper, never been in the show it's doubtful it would have succeeded. Rose was a way for new viewers (of which they are many) to get to know the show without having a lecture on the history of the show. The first two series have been Rose's story and now that's over they don't need to have someone there to give viewers a point of entry into the show.

It's not that Rose started out badly, she didn't. The first series was fantastic, but as time went on, stories started to focus more and more on Rose and less on Dr. Who. He started acting like little more than her lapdog, the love-smitten puppy that needed his fix and there were far too many stories this series of "oh no, is Rose dead?!?!?! THE HORROR!"

Rose initially gave the show an interesting dynamic, but there's a danger at some point that the show stops being Dr. Who.

[tricksterpup]

From the looks of all the preview media, it looks like Torchwood would be in set in modern times, if not the near-future. Besides, future or not, I would've liked to have seen Yvonne lead the Cardiff Branch, or at least be a recurring character from the London Branch.
heheheh.. she still can as a Cyberman. Remember, she wasnt from the other universe or gone there. So she should still be stuck on this world, along with the others that were created.

[Gaz]

It's not that Rose started out badly, she didn't. The first series was fantastic, but as time went on, stories started to focus more and more on Rose and less on Dr. Who. He started acting like little more than her lapdog, the love-smitten puppy that needed his fix and there were far too many stories this series of "oh no, is Rose dead?!?!?! THE HORROR!"

Rose initially gave the show an interesting dynamic, but there's a danger at some point that the show stops being Dr. Who.
Uh, there were LESS Rose-centric tales this year... She was traditional "Oh no, I am locked in this room with the monster..." assistant which bugged a lot of the people that liked her in the first run.

[Cephus]

The thing is, while Doctor Who is fun to watch, he's a rather inhuman character when you get down to it. He needs a human companion for us to relate to, and a cute female human is easier to identify with then other kinds of characters.

That's half the point of Dr. Who. He's the outsider, the alien, the guy who doesn't fit in. He's functionally adopted a homeworld where he will never be accepted, yet humanity owes him a great debt that they will never know about. It's one of the things that makes the Doctor tragic. And you're right, that's why they have companions, to give the purely human point of view to an otherwise non-human character.

While you may not have liked Rose, lots of other people did, and could relate to her easily enough. She was the viewer identification character, and now that she's gone, she'll have to be replaced quickly.

I loved Rose at the beginning, it's what she evolved into that I hated and I'm hardly alone. Had they kept her as a companion and a friend, she could have stuck around for years as far as I'm concerned, it's when they turned her into a love interest and had half the shows revolving around her that it became tiresome. She'll be replaced, just like every departing companion.

[tricksterpup]

She'll be replaced, just like every departing companion.
This is true..

I liked Rose and enjoyed what they were doing with her. I am now curious where they are going to take the Doctor now. It would have been great of instead of getting another "Human" companion but build another robot/K9 unit so he doesnt have to deal with the pain of loosing another companion.

[Ontir]

Now that you metion it, I'm wondering: Is the suit cross-dimensional? If so, was she drawn into hell? How many Cybermen were made here on Earth. If she escaped, then others must have, as well, which means there'll be more. Of course, with those pesky imaginative Daleks in Hell, they'll probably cannabalized the Cybermen to build a device to escape, and they'll probably bring Rose with them when they do!

I think the focus during season 2 was on track. The Doctor had gone through a great amount of loss, and appeared to have been traveling alone, since the Time War. Rose stumbles into his life, and is full of piss & vinegar, which is something he needs. He's been going through the motions, sort of fulfilling his obligations as "the Last Timelord," but Rose reminds him why he does it, why he loves it. As a result, he ends up falling for her, which is a great addition to the story. This time, the Doctor's got a pair! Now, however, he's had another loss, which will change his character quite a bit. I think it's going to be a long while before he lets anyone else, anywhere near him.

[tricksterpup]

Now that you metion it, I'm wondering: Is the suit cross-dimensional? If so, was she drawn into hell? How many Cybermen were made here on Earth. If she escaped, then others must have, as well, which means there'll be more. Of course, with those pesky imaginative Daleks in Hell, they'll probably cannabalized the Cybermen to build a device to escape, and they'll probably bring Rose with them when they do!

No, there was one Dalek that escaped at the end. So there is one Dalek, and possible Cybermen on earth. I picture the Yvonne Cyberman to be now property of Torchwood, after all, she is now alien. Irony, I love it.

[Ontir]

I didn't see the Dalek, where was "he?"

Alos, are the "Cult of Scaro" Daleks the ones who were able to find a way to defeat the Movellans?

For anyone else, it would be a tragedy, but for Yvonne, becoming Torchwood's Cyberman would be the ultimate. She can do her duty to Queen & Country...FOREVER!

[Gaz]

I didn't see the Dalek, where was "he?"
It was the black one, there was a shot of it disappearing after saying something like "Initiating emergency time jump"

[tricksterpup]

I didn't see the Dalek, where was "he?"

Alos, are the "Cult of Scaro" Daleks the ones who were able to find a way to defeat the Movellans?
He was the black one that vanished before being sucked into hell.
As for the Movellans, I can not say, someone like Matt would have to chime in. I know my Dr Who lore but not in details. I enjoy the show but I do not try to remember details. It makes more enjoyable to watch them again after forgetting about the episodes.

[Ontir]

That's right! Didn't he do an emergency time-shift, or something to that affect?

That means that the next generation of Daleks can have more personality, potentially. What an interesting Emperor/Davros II he'll make!

[king mob]

It's not that Rose started out badly, she didn't. The first series was fantastic, but as time went on, stories started to focus more and more on Rose and less on Dr. Who. He started acting like little more than her lapdog, the love-smitten puppy that needed his fix and there were far too many stories this series of "oh no, is Rose dead?!?!?! THE HORROR!"

Rose initially gave the show an interesting dynamic, but there's a danger at some point that the show stops being Dr. Who.


That was the point of the series though, to tell the story of the Doctor through Rose and as said, the second series saw less on a emphasis on Rose's backstory and focused on her relationship with the Doctor.

As for it not being Dr Who, as long as it has a Tardis and a decent actor playing the Doctor then the show will be Dr Who. It's a flexable format and can survive flitting from genre to genre.

[king mob]

I loved Rose at the beginning, it's what she evolved into that I hated and I'm hardly alone. Had they kept her as a companion and a friend, she could have stuck around for years as far as I'm concerned, it's when they turned her into a love interest and had half the shows revolving around her that it became tiresome. She'll be replaced, just like every departing companion.


The thing is though the hints that the Doctor has had felt more than freindship for his companions has been scattered throughout the series. It's been fairly subtle because until the revamp it was essentially a childrens series. Romana, Sarah Jane and the third Doctor and Jo were fucking like rabbits when we weren't looking.

In fact the end of last weeks reminded me of the end of Green Death with Jon Pertwee's Doctor necking some whiskey and driving off into the sunset.

And yes she will be replaced, he story is done and the last thing we need is a Rose clone which i know/hope Davies won't do.

[king mob]

Alos, are the "Cult of Scaro" Daleks the ones who were able to find a way to defeat the Movellans?


No idea but the Cult of Skaro was a nice idea and another example of Davies creating his own backstory for the series, something he's getting very good at.

[Gaz]

The thing is though the hints that the Doctor has had felt more than freindship for his companions has been scattered throughout the series. It's been fairly subtle because until the revamp it was essentially a childrens series. Romana, Sarah Jane and the third Doctor and Jo were fucking like rabbits when we weren't looking.

In fact the end of last weeks reminded me of the end of Green Death with Jon Pertwee's Doctor necking some whiskey and driving off into the sunset.

And yes she will be replaced, he story is done and the last thing we need is a Rose clone which i know/hope Davies won't do.
There's something very powerful about Tennant in that outfit, in the TARDIS set, alone.

[Web of Fear]

There's something very powerful about Tennant in that outfit, in the TARDIS set, alone.

Definitely. I think was been used twice this season, the other being Girl in the Fireplace. He just seemed so alone, in that big set, tweaking the controls. Would never have worked in the old TARDIS set.

[Ontir]

No idea but the Cult of Skaro was a nice idea and another example of Davies creating his own backstory for the series, something he's getting very good at.

If it's original to Davies, it's quite good. A truly whovian touch.

[Mac Danny]

So, should I wait for ScFi to possibly show this season next summer or do I obtain the episodes in a more Jack Sparrowish fashion??

[tricksterpup]

So, should I wait for ScFi to possibly show this season next summer or do I obtain the episodes in a more Jack Sparrowish fashion??
Most of us here in the States downloaded them. Not telling you to do it... but they are some pretty good shows.

[Cyke]

heheheh.. she still can as a Cyberman. Remember, she wasnt from the other universe or gone there. So she should still be stuck on this world, along with the others that were created.

If the Cyber-plating she had on was from the parallel Earth, then she'd be sucked in, too. If it's not, then she's okay, but I doubt the Cybermen had all their materials from this Earth.

[ragnarok_2012]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/Ragnarok_2012/CivilWar_Cyber_Park.jpg

I was making Civil War Banners, and I thought I'd share.

[rick]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/Ragnarok_2012/CivilWar_Cyber_Park.jpg

I was making Civil War Banners, and I thought I'd share.


That is simply awsome.

[ragnarok_2012]

Thanks!

There are more Doctor Who banners over on the Civil War board, by the way (done by other people).

Scavenger made lots of Doctor Who banners, by the way:
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=3379356&postcount=344
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=3379369&postcount=345

And I think there are some other Doctor Who banners, earlier in the thread.

[Cyke]

LOL, the banner with K-9 is simply bad-ass :)

[ragnarok_2012]

I forgot about this one I made awhle ago.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/Ragnarok_2012/CivilWar_Capt_Jack.jpg

[drwho]

Has South Park done any Dr. Who gags on the actual show?

[Cyke]

I forgot about this one I made awhle ago.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/Ragnarok_2012/CivilWar_Capt_Jack.jpg

I really like the banner with Jack that says "I'm with everyone." It's so very Jack Harkness :)

[ragnarok_2012]

I really like the banner with Jack that says "I'm with everyone." It's so very Jack Harkness :)

Was it naked Jack?

It really should be a pic of Jack naked.

[Matt]

I'd like one to read:
Civil War - I'm with Torchwood ... yeah, we suck.

Even better:
Civil War - I'm with UNIT.
Five rounds rapid!

[ragnarok_2012]

I'd like one to read:
Civil War - I'm with Torchwood ... yeah, we suck.

Even better:
Civil War - I'm with UNIT.
Five rounds rapid!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/Ragnarok_2012/CivilWar_Unit4a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/Ragnarok_2012/CivilWar_Unit2a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/Ragnarok_2012/CivilWar_Doctor_Holo1c.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/Ragnarok_2012/CivilWar_Doctor_Holo1b.jpg

[ragnarok_2012]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/Ragnarok_2012/CivilWar_BakerParka.jpg

Believe it or not, the one I had to redo the most before getting it to my satisfaction was the UNIT banners.

[Spike-X]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/Spike-X/CivilWarduty.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/Spike-X/CivilWarMickey.jpg

[ragnarok_2012]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/Ragnarok_2012/CivilWar_K_9.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/Ragnarok_2012/CivilWar_Cyberman2a.jpg

[ragnarok_2012]

I'd like one to read:
Civil War - I'm with Torchwood ... yeah, we suck.

Even better:
Civil War - I'm with UNIT.
Five rounds rapid!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/Ragnarok_2012/CivilWar_Yvonne1a_res.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/Ragnarok_2012/CivilWar_Yvonne1_matt_res.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/Ragnarok_2012/CivilWar_Daleks1b_res.jpg

[lonewolf23k]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/Spike-X/CivilWarduty.jpg

Nice. Think you can do one of her Cybered version, with the oily tear?

[Spike-X]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/Spike-X/CivilWarwhat.jpg

[Spike-X]

Nice. Think you can do one of her Cybered version, with the oily tear?

Couldn't really find a usable shot, sorry.

[Spike-X]

Here's one I've been wanting to do for ages -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/Spike-X/CivilWartired.jpg

[ragnarok_2012]

Here's one I've been wanting to do for ages -

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/Spike-X/CivilWartired.jpg

And we have a winner!

[Ontir]

LOL! That's great. For Torchwood, there should be one that says, "If it's alien, it's ours!"

[ragnarok_2012]

LOL! That's great. For Torchwood, there should be one that says, "If it's alien, it's ours!"

Glad you liked 'em.

I really went on a banner-making spree.

[Matt]

The best Who one I've seen was...

Civil War - I am The Master and YOU are with ME.

[Matt]

Got bored so I decided to make some CW Banners.

The Master (couldn't find the one I mentioned earlier so I made my own)
http://www.eftel.com/~mattcbr/stuff/banner001.jpg

http://www.eftel.com/~mattcbr/stuff/banner002.jpg

http://www.eftel.com/~mattcbr/stuff/banner003.jpg

http://www.eftel.com/~mattcbr/stuff/banner004.jpg

[Ontir]

"My other car is a T.A.R.D.I.S!"

[Cyke]

Got bored so I decided to make some CW Banners.

The Master (couldn't find the one I mentioned earlier so I made my own)
http://www.eftel.com/~mattcbr/stuff/banner001.jpg


I love it. I LOVE IT!

[adamthered]

Finally got caught up, thanks to that magic satellite thingee and my DVD maker.

Loved season two, pretty much for all the same reasons mentioned previously. I loved how they subtlely played up The Doctor and Rose's very nonchalant attitude and it finally biting them in the ass.

Seeing Billie leave is sad but I felt Rose was really doing more harm toward the end. She really became self-centered and it was all about The Doctor and she. My wife was quite upset. (But my wife and watching and loving the series so I'm happy).

Looking forward to Torchwood (prepping that magic satellite thingee for that one) and the Christmas Special. And, of course, season 3 (or 29 depending on how you're counting).

[rick]

Finally got caught up, thanks to that magic satellite thingee and my DVD maker.


Let's hear it for the Satellite Controlled Magic Crystal Radio Set.

The life saver for fans of good television everywhere.

[Matt]

Give praise to it!

[adamthered]

Let's hear it for the Satellite Controlled Magic Crystal Radio Set.

The life saver for fans of good television everywhere.

That would be the one. Yes, I worship at it's altar 3-4 times a week.

[Spike-X]

*gives much praise unto it*

[Ontir]

Hungry Like the Werewolf
"No werewolves, Time Lords, or dead British Monarchs were harmed in the making of this video."
Youtube strikes again! :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8RiRs2yz0w&search=duran%20duran

[rick]

The person who introduced me to the Doctor was my high school sweetheart and first wife Angela Spring.

Now, it’s not really a well kept secret that over the years my relationship with women have had their ups and downs. I mean come on gang, anyone who has been married four times definitely has the ability to meet women, but one must also admit not always the ability to keep them. Although I do have to say that Trouble and I are closing in on our third anniversary, which if you count the time we were living together works out to six years we’ve been a couple. And that doesn’t even count the eight years we knew each other before we started dating. So who knows, maybe this time I got it right.

But that of course is besides the point.

Angie was the sister of this new kid I had met in high school named Dan, who had just moved to Colorado Springs from Rochester New York. Dan was into motorcycles, D&D, early metal and smoking all together too much marijuana.

So him and I hit it off right off the bat.

Anyway, shortly after I met Dan, I met his older sister Angie.

And let me tell you what, I have to admit that as cool as Dan was, I liked his sister one hell of a lot more then I liked Dan.

Or my then current girlfriend for that matter.

But I’m not going into that whole soap opera. That’s more something for the Comm Board I would think. But the point is, that in the end, Angie and I were dating.

Now, Angie was the perfect fandom geek girl for the late 70’s. Long black hair, pretty skin, great figure, and easily the single smartest person I have ever known. Also while she wasn’t really into comics, she loved Star Trek, live theatre, George Romero movies and lot’s and lot’s of sex in the back seat of my parents ’75 Hornet station wagon.

Oh yeah, there was one other thing that she was really into and was in fact going just a bit nuts over because she wasn’t getting to see it anymore. And that was this weird ass sounding British sci-fi show she kept going on about, featuring this shape changing time traveler and his numerous pretty girl side kicks, traveling through space and time fighting what appeared to be trash cans with plungers attached to them.

She told me that the show was named Doctor Who and when I asked her if that was the name of the lead character, she told me that no, he was just named the Doctor.

Which made no sense to me at all, since the show was called Doctor Who, it seemed to me that this is what they should have called the star.

Angie also explained that the show had been on just about forever in England and that they changed the lead actor every few years so that there were all sorts of different Doctors.

In the end she lent me a bunch of the Terrance Dicks paperback adaptations from the 70’s and while at first the stories seemed a bit odd, I in fact got really addicted to the paperbacks. And really got my first ideas about what the Doctor was from them well before I ever saw the show.

I’ll say this though, as much as I liked the books, back in these pre-video days, I was pretty stuck about ever getting to see the real thing.

So we cut ahead a couple of years to the summer of 1981.

By this time Angie and I had gotten married and I was in the Navy. We were living in a roach infested dumb in Pensacola Florida while I was going through A school. I was only 19 and she had just turned 20. Despite my being in the service, with me still only being an E-1, we were really poor without any spare cash for recreation or really much of anything else truthfully.

But we did have one real shinning thing during that time. And that was that no sooner had we moved in then the local PBS station started running 2 episodes of Doctor Who every evening at 6:00. And better yet they started out with the first Jon Pertwee episode, Spearhead From Space.

For the next several months, no matter what else was going on in our lives, and take my word for it, that was quite a bit, we made sure to sit down together and watch episode after episode of the Doctor. And Angie was right the show was just wonderful to watch. As good as the books were they just couldn’t convey the humor, the excitement and the just plain fun of the Doctor.

By the time we left to move to California we had gotten completely caught up to the most recent Tom Baker episodes that had hit the US at the time. And I was a Doctor Who fan for life.

So here we were in 2005, almost 25 years later, and Angie and I have been divorced for almost 15 of those years at that.

Since we have children together, Angie and I still run into each other from time to time. Although since the girls grew up not nearly as much as even just a few years ago. Angie and Trouble actually get along, and although I will never be the biggest fan of the guy Angie got married to a few years back, him and I can at least tolerate each other.

When the new Doctor Who came on the air, I suddenly realized that it was my turn to return the favor. So every week as the new story unfolded I would take the show, burn it to DVD and drop it in the mail to Angie.

And I’ve continued to do it with every episode so far.

Now we still don’t ever really run into each other, and we really don’t have all that much to say to each other about anything else. But every time I send her an episode she writes to me to let me know what she thinks about the new show, and I write her back to tell her what I thought.

And for just a minute there, and I’m certain that it is the same for her too. For just a minute when we read those letters or watch those shows, for some part of us, it’s 1981 again.


Heck, with that kind of emotional investment, no wonder I'm such a huge fan of this show.

Here's hoping that Christmas comes fast this year.

[Matt]

That's an awesome story.

[Ontir]

Rick, I'm originally a Rochestarian, by way of Spencerport. What part of the city was Angela from?

[rick]

Rick, I'm originally a Rochestarian, by way of Spencerport. What part of the city was Angela from?

Honestly, I don't know.

[adamthered]

Nice story.

I've introduced my wife (first and only) to the new series and she's hooked on it. She's quite upset Rose won't be around any more.

My friends and I (dubbed The Losers) used to watch Doctor Who on Sci-Fi Fridays on Iowa Public Television in the 90s. It was a weekly thing, along with Red Dwarf and Jack Foley Orkheimer's Star Hustler. Heck, I don't like to talk about this, but I lost my virginity while Tom Baker was running around on the TV in my ex-girlfriend's basement! Not as sweet as Rick's story, but still, pretty damn geeky :D

[Web of Fear]

Check it out. Nice to see that they're not afraid to make a bit of a bold change of direction.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/gallery/doctormartha/

I saw a programme about "Only Fools & Horses" the other day and the new suit looks a bit like the one Trigger is wearing in the scene where DelBoy falls through the bar (If you don't know what I'm talking about, click here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbus84vR8g)

[adamthered]

Check it out. Nice to see that they're not afraid to make a bit of a bold change of direction.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/gallery/doctormartha/

I saw a programme about "Only Fools & Horses" the other day and the new suit looks a bit like the one Trigger is wearing in the scene where DelBoy falls through the bar (If you don't know what I'm talking about, click here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERbus84vR8g)

Thats pretty slick.

[king mob]

Sky have this potential spoiler for series three. (http://showbiz.sky.com/showbiz/article/0,,50001-1230498,00.html)


Do bear in mind it could be utter shite.

[Ontir]

Nice story.

I've introduced my wife (first and only) to the new series and she's hooked on it. She's quite upset Rose won't be around any more.

My friends and I (dubbed The Losers) used to watch Doctor Who on Sci-Fi Fridays on Iowa Public Television in the 90s. It was a weekly thing, along with Red Dwarf and Jack Foley Orkheimer's Star Hustler. Heck, I don't like to talk about this, but I lost my virginity while Tom Baker was running around on the TV in my ex-girlfriend's basement! Not as sweet as Rick's story, but still, pretty damn geeky :D


I was in New York State (NOT the city!), but we seem to have largely lived the same life back then! Of course, mine involved a worthless boyfriend who I really don't want to see again, but... :p

[Cyke]

Check it out. Nice to see that they're not afraid to make a bit of a bold change of direction.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/gallery/doctormartha/


Nerd-chic pushed to British stylistic changes. I love it.

And the Converse sneakers stayed! Well done, Doctor! Well done.

[adamthered]

Nerd-chic pushed to British stylistic changes. I love it.

And the Converse sneakers stayed! Well done, Doctor! Well done.

Yep, which is great. My wife and I are going out as The Doctor and Rose for Halloween and I own a pair of All-Stars with flames on them :D

Now to just find a inexpensive, but nice looking, suit and overcoat.

[Matt]

I actually think the 10th Doctor looks better when he's wearing the coat - without it, he looks a bit too ... well, normal.

For me, the Doctor should always look a bit eccentric.

[ragnarok_2012]

I actually think the 10th Doctor looks better when he's wearing the coat - without it, he looks a bit too ... well, normal.

For me, the Doctor should always look a bit eccentric.

Y'know, I was convinced that Eccleston would be crap because he dressed so normally. And he really sold me on it. I liked the idea of a Doctor that looked completely normally until he said or did anything.

I really liked the pin-striped suit, sneakers and trench coat, but I'm willing to give this one a go.

[Matt]

That raises the obvious question - which of the Doctor's various costumes do you like the best?

For me, I'd have to go with the 1st Doctor.
It gave him a sense of style, yet was eccentric at the same time. It was a suit of clothes that belonged nowhere and everywhere at once - which I think says a lot about the Doctor.

[rick]

As for me, I was always a fan of Jon Pertwee's, the Kind of Man who Reads Playboy look, what with the ruffles and smoking jackets.

[ragnarok_2012]

That raises the obvious question - which of the Doctor's various costumes do you like the best?

For me, I'd have to go with the 1st Doctor.
It gave him a sense of style, yet was eccentric at the same time. It was a suit of clothes that belonged nowhere and everywhere at once - which I think says a lot about the Doctor.

Oooh, good question.

I'm gonna go with David Tennant's pin-striped suit and trench coat. Partly, it's because it reminds me of Tom Baker's outfit. Also, it's stylish with a trace of geek.

It just really works for me.

[Web of Fear]

Y'know, I was convinced that Eccleston would be crap because he dressed so normally. And he really sold me on it. I liked the idea of a Doctor that looked completely normally until he said or did anything.

I really liked the pin-striped suit, sneakers and trench coat, but I'm willing to give this one a go.

One thing about the Ecclestone look was that in "The Unquiet Dead" the Doctor really stood out, whereas some of other other Doctors would have blended in a bit more with the older style of dress. There's also the "U Boat Captain" remark by Captain Jack about the leather jacket in "The Doctor Dances" :)

[Web of Fear]

I actually think the 10th Doctor looks better when he's wearing the coat - without it, he looks a bit too ... well, normal.

For me, the Doctor should always look a bit eccentric.

The suit does have some subtle eccentrities.

It's not exactly a formal business suit, it's a bit "scruffy" (a tailor could probably explain that better than I could). It also has four buttons on the front, and I've been looking for a new suit recently - haven't come across any with like that.

The tie is either not done up, not there or the Doctor has been wearing a t-shirt under the jacket.

The jacket also has a "belt" across the back where the pinstripe runs horizontally.

Obviously there's the trainers as well.

I think that the outfit is eccentric without the coat, but I do think it adds a nice final flourish.:)

[ragnarok_2012]

I'll bet Tom Baker got pretty uncomfortable wearing his outfit anytime the temperature reached about 80 degrees F.

[Cyke]

That raises the obvious question - which of the Doctor's various costumes do you like the best?

For me, I'd have to go with the 1st Doctor.
It gave him a sense of style, yet was eccentric at the same time. It was a suit of clothes that belonged nowhere and everywhere at once - which I think says a lot about the Doctor.

For me, it's a toss-up between Pertwee and McGann. Pertwee's was just so flashy and unbelievably cheesy, yet at the same time there was a definite mix of professionalism, heroism, and camp (I suppose it's the velvet jacket). The ruffles and the long tie were perfectly British smooth, especially when you take into account that Austin Powers repeated the look thirty years later.

McGann's costume was just so foppish and Edwardian, and it seemed to take in elements of previous Doctors, much like his personality, and combined them into one. It was a pretty romantic yet dignified costume, and to me it had elements of Doctors 1 - 4. His costume also matched the interior of his TARDIS perfectly, so you can tell that there was a lot of coordination in the overall design of the movie.