Doctor Who *spoilers*

[roguespirit]

Am I the only one that thinks that Mickey is a waste of space

[king mob]

Am I the only one that thinks that Mickey is a waste of space


I totally hated Mickey at the start, but the character has grown on me. The moment in GITF where he sees the Doctor is upset and asks Rose to show him the rest of the Tardis was wonderfully done and gave Mickey another aspect to his character.

Its worth downloading the commentary for this weeks episode as its Stephen Moffat and Noel Clarke, and they're having a ball.

Oh yes, the show won a couple of BAFTAS as well last night, something unheard of for a genre show.


Anyhow, Cybermen!

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/difbrook/radiotimes_cybercover1.jpg

[Spike-X]

Am I the only one that thinks that Mickey is a waste of space
Last season, I totally agreed with you. In this week's episode, though, it looks like he's finally starting to earn his keep, as it were. And I loved the gratuitous barrel roll as he and Rose were searching the ship.

Didn't you audition for that part?

[Spike-X]

I totally hated Mickey at the start, but the character has grown on me. The moment in GITF where he sees the Doctor is upset and asks Rose to show him the rest of the Tardis was wonderfully done and gave Mickey another aspect to his character.

That was a nice touch, yeah.

Its worth downloading the commentary for this weeks episode as its Stephen Moffat and Noel Clarke, and they're having a ball.

Do you mean Doctor Who Confidential? I should have it in about half an hour.

Anyhow, Cybermen!

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/difbrook/radiotimes_cybercover1.jpg

w00t!!

[tricksterpup]

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/difbrook/radiotimes_cybercover1.jpg
My God, its Ultimate Iron Man. ;)

[ragnarok_2012]

That is a seriously cool looking cover.

[roguespirit]

Last season, I totally agreed with you. In this week's episode, though, it looks like he's finally starting to earn his keep, as it were. And I loved the gratuitous barrel roll as he and Rose were searching the ship.

Didn't you audition for that part?

Not quite but well remembered I sent my stuff to the casting director but maybe I'm just bitter but to be honest I don't consider Noel Clarke to be a very good actor at all. I've seen him in other things and he has yet to come close to impressing me.

Yes the character has developed a bit but he's got a long way to go before I consider him anything else but cannon fodder

[Sam]

This episode tied with "The Doctor Dances" for my favorite of the show thus far. Which isn't surprising, as both were written by Stephen Moffat.

What I find amusing is that by FAR the best writing in the series coming from the same guy who did "Coupling".

[ragnarok_2012]

This episode tied with "The Doctor Dances" for my favorite of the show thus far. Which isn't surprising, as both were written by Stephen Moffat.

What I find amusing is that by FAR the best writing in the series coming from the same guy who did "Coupling".

I liked the first three seasons or so of Coupling.

And re: Mickey. I enjoyed Auton Mickey in the first episode o' Series 1. That said, he's no Captain Jack.

If they do kill him, I think he should be wearing a red shirt at the time. :D

[king mob]

Do you mean Doctor Who Confidential? I should have it in about half an hour.



No, the BBC have dome commentaries for this series.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/sounds/

They're all worth a listen but GITF is the best so far.

[king mob]

Ooooo, nice...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/

[Spike-X]

No, the BBC have dome commentaries for this series.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/sounds/

They're all worth a listen but GITF is the best so far.
Cool! Thanks for the link.

[Matt]

I have just managed to see the first two episodes of the new series - yeah, I took my time getting there but had other stuff to do first.

New Earth.
I honestly didn't like this episode much, the plot seemed weak and Cassandra was just annoying rather than menacing. I could see what they were trying to achieve with the story but it just didn't seem to come together very well at all. Chip's death ... well, it may have intended to be a powerful scene but I couldn't get past how fake that last set looked; there was no believable atmosphere present at all. Kind of an odd coincidence, considering Rose was one of the weaker episodes of the previous season and the first ep of this one wasn't too great either.

Tooth and Claw.
A vast improvement over New Earth for sure. A wonderful atmosphere throughout the episode, from the dramatic killer monk introduction right through to the mystery about the present Royal Family being werewolves (it would explain Charlie's weird teeth, perhaps). I loved the scene where the master of the House stood before the door with the sword, doing his part even though he knew he'd die. I also found the storyline interesting considering that at roughly the same time, the 7th Doctor was at the Gabriel Chase estate in Perivale saving Queen Victoria from an assassination attempt as per the story Ghost Light.

Quick quiz for everyone; In which episode was 'Torchwood' first mentioned?

[Matt]

School Reunion

First thing that comes across is that Anthony Head can really play the evil, creepy role very well indeed. If they had to choose an actor to play a new version of The Master, then he would have to be it - pity he's not him in this case, really. Loved the scene where the Doctor meets Sarah-Jane again; it must have really touched the Doctor since the last time he'd seen her, she'd been shot dead by Triad gang members ('Bullet Time') back in his 7th incarnation (she got better later but the Doctor didn't see her after that). Let's see ... sarah-Jane travelled with the 3rd/4th Doctors, back when he was around 450 years old. Now he's around 1150-1200 so he basically hasn't been able to talk to her for around 600-700 of his years... crazy. Anyhow, I think this episode delivered an excellent insight into just how lonely the Doctor's life is - he gets to travel with a wide range of people but is always destined to either leave them behind one day or watch them die.

The Paradigm is an interesting concept, it sounds very similar to the Block Transfer Computations talked about in 'Logopolis' which used maths to reshape reality (a technology the Time Lords used to, at least partly, construct their TARDISes).

All in all, a very impressive episode - especially for those of us who watching the old series.

One things I didn't get a good look at, however, was the name of the school. It wasn't Coal Hill by any chance was it?

[Spike-X]

Random thoughts as I watch Doctor Who Confidential...

Nice to see Owen from the Vicar Of Dibley playing a serious role. "I need to get a new body. It's like the Battle Of The Somme is being fought in my insides."

The early Cybermen looked a hell of a lot like TISM.

[Web of Fear]

One things I didn't get a good look at, however, was the name of the school. It wasn't Coal Hill by any chance was it?

No - Deffry Vale

[Spike-X]

One things I didn't get a good look at, however, was the name of the school. It wasn't Coal Hill by any chance was it?

That would've been nice, but no, it wasn't.

[Matt]

The Girl in the Fireplace

A bit of a change in pace with this episode, it would seem. Nice to see the return of the ol' Time Lord telepathy, especially since it led to some more character revelations about the Doctor and his past - possibly linking into the 'childhood' shown in the novel Lungbarrow wherein the Doctor got along with none of his family at all.

One thing stood out, though - there was a 9th Doctor novel called The Clockwise Man wherein the Doctor and Rose encounter a number of clockwise robots, much like the ones in this story, so why do they act with no familiarity towards these ones?

The Doctor playing drunk was interesting. Side note: If the novels are anything to go by then the Doctor can only get drunk when he wants to be drunk ... so it really must've been a good party. Heh. Dancing.

The idea of the Doctor possibly trapped in one time period is interesting as well, though not new. The 3rd was trapped in the 20th century working for UNIT for a number of years, while the amnesic 8th spent the entirety of the 20th century waiting for the TARDIS to self repair and generally living a variety of lives out. How could the Doctor away from the 18th century? Not really that hard, all he has to do is remember sometime and somewhere in that time period he's previously been and meet up with himself - catch a ride back to the 51st century back to his TARDIS while his past self continues on as his own history dictates. It's not like the Doctor hasn't run into his past (and future) selves before and done similar things...

It's interesting how this season seems to be concentrating on the two flip sides of the Doctor's life. On one hand, it's all one big grand adventure with fun and games for all. Then there's the horrible amounts of loss, sadness and loneliness which shapes the Doctor's life...

[Jack]

Interesting stuff with the latest episode (though the name escapes me - it wasn't just Cybermen, was it?).

It seems that now the Time Lords are no more, travel between universes is now nearly impossible. It happens by accident, and doing so kills the TARDIS, because it's powered by the universe - but only that one. The Doctor manages to charge up the sole remaining power cell with the only power source from their universe he has left - himself. Costs him ten years of his life.

Character development for Mickey! I do hope that Mickey sticks around as a Companion from now on, rather than just being temporary.

I don't know much about the Cybermen, so are these ones different? The Doctor was shocked when they refused to accept his surrender at the end of the episode.. It was a good episode, but very much a Part 1 of 2, so the verdict really has to wait until next week.

[Popgun]

Quick quiz for everyone; In which episode was 'Torchwood' first mentioned?

Bad Wolf, as one of the answers on The Weakest Link.

Incidentally, I really think you're going to have to let go of the idea that the spin-off novels and audio adventures are canonical, Matt.

You might have to apply that rule Star Wars fans attach to their Expanded Universe - that they are canon unless/until they are contradicted by the primary media, in this case the tv series.

For those who've seen Rise Of The Cybermen, doesn't Lumic (Interestic name, that) seem reminiscent of a certain other wheelchair-bound meglomanical builder of cyborg armies? Unlikely to be a connection, although this is an alternative universe...

[tricksterpup]

Bad Wolf, as one of the answers on The Weakest Link.

Incidentally, I really think you're going to have to let go of the idea that the spin-off novels and audio adventures are canonical, Matt.

You might have to apply that rule Star Wars fans attach to their Expanded Universe - that they are canon unless/until they are contradicted by the primary media, in this case the tv series.

For those who've seen Rise Of The Cybermen, doesn't Lumic (Interestic name, that) seem reminiscent of a certain other wheelchair-bound meglomanical builder of cyborg armies? Unlikely to be a connection, although this is an alternative universe...
PopGun, you are right, when I first saw him in the wheelchair I immediatly had a flashback. It was kinda neat.
As for Torchwood, mentioned twice in this episode.
And Matt, I agree with Popgun on this, the books rarely cross over in the series and seriously, why should we worry about reading the books for information that the Series should provide for us. Don't get me wrong, I am sure the novels are great but I do not want to read them and I really shouldnt need to read them to understand the show.

[Spike-X]

doesn't Lumic (Interestic name, that) seem reminiscent of a certain other wheelchair-bound meglomanical builder of cyborg armies?

So it wasn't just me, then.

[Dizzy D]

So it wasn't just me, then.


Yep, same here, though they at least seem to go for a different feeling behind this. "Viccar of ..." .. Dammit, I knew I knew him, I just couldn't tell the face. That guy that was his assistent (gathering those homeless people), he was really familiar to me as well. Who was he?

Liked this episode a lot by the way, best one of the season so far (Note, I missed last episode though, don't have a TV myself and parents forgot to start the video).

edit: interesting. According to Wikipedia, Lumic is only in a wheelchair, because the actor broke his ankle before filming, not any plot-reason.

[Spike-X]

"Viccar of ..." .. Dammit, I knew I knew him, I just couldn't tell the face.

Yeah, he had a beard in Dibley. And hair. It was the voice that gave it away for me.

His assistant was played by Paul Antony-Barber (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0031524/), who's been in a bunch of stuff, most recently as Valerie's father in V for Vendetta.

**Edit: But that's not who you're talking about. You're talking about Mr Crane, who was played by Colin Spaull, who's been in a bunch of stuff, including Revelation Of The Daleks back in 1985.

[thehod]

Yeah, he had a beard in Dibley. And hair. It was the voice that gave it away for me.

See I thought he was going to call the Cybermen "Dave" the moment he saw them.

[leg end]

The Mickey problem:

I used to hate Mickey in the first series but this series he has won me around, however there seems to be a set-up for him leaving the show. The bitterness over the Dr and Rose relationship is getting to him and if the alt version (Rickey) dies, I have a terrible feeling Mickey will stay. I really hope not, as his recent character developement has won me round- and from the boards I visit quite a few fans are warming to him.
Guess I gotta wait till next Sat and hope I am proved wrong.

[Cephus]

I used to hate Mickey in the first series but this series he has won me around, however there seems to be a set-up for him leaving the show. The bitterness over the Dr and Rose relationship is getting to him and if the alt version (Rickey) dies, I have a terrible feeling Mickey will stay. I really hope not, as his recent character developement has won me round- and from the boards I visit quite a few fans are warming to him.

I don't know, it really does look like they're setting him up to stay and I don't know that it's a bad thing really. He has no one back on Rose's earth, Rose has the Doctor, she doesn't need him anymore and now, he's got all the things that he lost on Rose's earth back (assuming that Ricky dies, of course). And he's right, he's just their pack mule right now, he doesn't really do much of anything. If he becomes the hero of the alternate earth, he can get some well-deserved recognition, have his grandmother back, and finally be happy.

And nothing is to say that he can't tag along on a couple adventures now and then. After all, Captain Jack went off to work on Torchwood and we know that on the alternate earth, Torchwood exists, why couldn't Mickey work there? Seems like a perfect match.

[ragnarok_2012]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41005000/jpg/_41005944_cyberman300.jpg

You will become like us.

[Jack]

I don't know, it really does look like they're setting him up to stay and I don't know that it's a bad thing really. He has no one back on Rose's earth, Rose has the Doctor, she doesn't need him anymore and now, he's got all the things that he lost on Rose's earth back (assuming that Ricky dies, of course). And he's right, he's just their pack mule right now, he doesn't really do much of anything. If he becomes the hero of the alternate earth, he can get some well-deserved recognition, have his grandmother back, and finally be happy.

And nothing is to say that he can't tag along on a couple adventures now and then. After all, Captain Jack went off to work on Torchwood and we know that on the alternate earth, Torchwood exists, why couldn't Mickey work there? Seems like a perfect match.
That's not true, Mickey does have someone - Rose. Travel between universes isn't likely to become easy again, so if he stays on this Earth he won't ever see Rose again.

[tricksterpup]

From LITG..

>>> BRISTOL BULLET >>> "Torchwood" was originally the name used to disguise the nature of Doctor Who film materials being sent from Cardiff to London. Then it took on a life of its own…


>>> BRISTOL BULLET >>> "Torchwood" plotpoint for being set in Cardiff, is due to the Space Time Rift established in Doctor Who episodes "The Unquiet Dead" and "Boomtown."

[Spike-X]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/Spike-X/CivilWarMickey.jpg

[Matt]

That should be...

Civil War: I'm with ... anyone that can give me my own K9/TARDIS/Sexy travelling companion.

[ragnarok_2012]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/Spike-X/CivilWarMickey.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/Ragnarok_2012/CivilWar_Capt_Jack.jpg

[elheffe]

Man, I sure fancy that Rose.

[Spike-X]

She's a bit of alright, eh?

[Cephus]

That's not true, Mickey does have someone - Rose. Travel between universes isn't likely to become easy again, so if he stays on this Earth he won't ever see Rose again.

Why? The Doctor said that travel between universes is easy, it's just that the Tardis is broken at the moment. And Mickey doesn't really have Rose, he's just a hanger-on right now.

[tricksterpup]

From SCIFI WIRE

Torchwood Begins Production

LONDON—Russell T. Davies, creator of the Doctor Who spinoff series Torchwood, told SCI FI Wire the British show began production earlier this month and is definitely darker than its predecessor. "I would call it modern urban sci-fi really," Davies said in an interview here. "It's a little bit harder science fiction than Doctor Who is, although, again, it's very character driven."

Torchwood stars John Barrowman as 51st-century con man Captain Jack Harkness, who was originally introduced last season on Doctor Who. The ensemble cast also includes Eve Myles, Burn Gorman and Naoko Mori. "It"s quite dark," Davies said. "But when I write something dark, I automatically make it sunny at the same time, because I think that makes the dark darker and the funny stuff funnier. So I still very much have my tone of voice in it. But there are more adult emotions at play. When you see it, it will all make sense, because it's very different territory to Doctor Who. It's not about fleets of spaceships and invading monsters. It's more about ideas, like 'What if you could read someone's mind?' It's quite X-Filesy in that way. The X-Files has been off our screens for far too long, and it's a marvelous show. So we've got elements of that in it, because it works. But at the same time, it's set in a Welsh city, with a bisexual con man from the 51st century at the helm, so you've automatically got something sexier and sassier and a bit wilder in places. We've actually got six scripts in at the moment, and they're marvelous."

Not surprisingly, Davies has already enlisted some of the writers who have worked on the past two seasons of Doctor Who, as well as a few new faces. "Toby Whithouse, who wrote the Sarah Jane [Smith] episode, 'School Reunion,' has written an episode of Torchwood that is marvelous," Davies said. "And there are a lot of new people as well, because, frankly, the best people are sticking with Doctor Who, because that's at the core of it. And we're bringing people with other skills onto Torchwood."

Davies added: "To be honest, just by being set in the modern world means it's a slightly easier show to write. The difficulty of Doctor Who is believing that you're in the world [in the year] five hundred zillion. But with a modern city, there are more writers who are well versed in the language of urban drama, so it's been easier to find writers for, and that's been paying off. It's not as effects-based, either. It's much more effects-light. There are a number of CGI shots per episode, but nowhere near the amount in Doctor Who. It's a lot more 'real' than Doctor Who is, but we're still sharing some of its sensibilities."

With two shows in production simultaneously, Davies admitted that his schedule is a bit hectic at the moment. But he added that he couldn't be happier. "I've actually got to start writing the next Christmas episode of Doctor Who, and we're starting to meet with the writers right now," he said. "That's why I would only ever write one or two Torchwoods every year, because there's a certain formula you can follow on Torchwood. But on Doctor Who, the wide open skies are open to you, and it's much harder to write as a result, so there's never a moment when I feel I can relax when I'm writing Doctor Who. There's never a moment when I think, 'This is easy!' But that's fine. That's what I need to keep going!"

The second season of Doctor Who is now airing in the United Kingdom on Saturday nights on BBC1. The first season is currently airing in the United States on SCI FI Channel, Fridays at 9 p.m. ET/PT. —Joe Nazzaro

[Spike-X]

Just out of curiosity, was there much outcry from the usual channels at the scene of Captain Jack kissing the Doctor goodbye in last year's season finale?

[tricksterpup]

Just out of curiosity, was there much outcry from the usual channels at the scene of Captain Jack kissing the Doctor goodbye in last year's season finale?
I think more people wanted tongue.

[Matt]

Why? The Doctor said that travel between universes is easy, it's just that the Tardis is broken at the moment. And Mickey doesn't really have Rose, he's just a hanger-on right now.

As I remember it, the Doctor said it was easy ... but only when the Time Lords were around to weaken the barriers between worlds. He said, if I recall right, that now it should be impossible.

[king mob]

Just out of curiosity, was there much outcry from the usual channels at the scene of Captain Jack kissing the Doctor goodbye in last year's season finale?


Nope, barely a peep apart from nutters like Christian Voice.

[ChrisIII]

Just a heads up-THE HAND OF FEAR is the next DVD UK release-probably intended so that people who saw SCHOOL REUNION can find out more about Sarah. I wouldn't be suprised if we saw something with K-9 or the Cybermen soon.

[Cyke]

Gotta admit, it's a bit of neat writing that the Cybermen have a new origin yet, by virtue of the plot (the parallel universe device), nothing's been retconned from the previous origin.

[Spike-X]

Wow. What an amazing episode.

When they first announced a new series of Doctor Who, I was hoping for something good. My expectations have been exceeded beyond anything I could possibly have imagined. This is a brilliant TV show.

[ChrisIII]

Creating 'new' Cybermen certainly helps deal with the continuity issue-fans are reintroduced to classic bad guys but without having to have an intimate knowledge of the series. The Cybermen continuity problems were especially problematic in Earthshock and Attack Of The Cybermen.

[Dizzy D]

Gotta admit, it's a bit of neat writing that the Cybermen have a new origin yet, by virtue of the plot (the parallel universe device), nothing's been retconned from the previous origin.

They are even tied to the original Cybermen: International Electromatics is a front company for Cybus Industries. International Electromatics in the real Who-verse was a company used by the original Cybermen to invade Earth.

[king mob]

Slightly disapointed by last nights episode, it seem too rushed and poorly developed at times. Anyhow, it was still miles better than anything else on last night (apart from Finland's entry on Eurovision) and next week looks stunning.

[Matt]

Something I noted - Jacki's cyber voice was less irritating than her real one.

[Cyke]

They are even tied to the original Cybermen: International Electromatics is a front company for Cybus Industries. International Electromatics in the real Who-verse was a company used by the original Cybermen to invade Earth.

HaH! Even better :)

[Spike-X]

Something I noted - Jacki's cyber voice was less irritating than her real one.
I wonder if she'll be demanding a new body in six months, when that one goes out of fashion?

[Cephus]

I don't know, it really does look like they're setting him up to stay and I don't know that it's a bad thing really. He has no one back on Rose's earth, Rose has the Doctor, she doesn't need him anymore and now, he's got all the things that he lost on Rose's earth back (assuming that Ricky dies, of course). And he's right, he's just their pack mule right now, he doesn't really do much of anything. If he becomes the hero of the alternate earth, he can get some well-deserved recognition, have his grandmother back, and finally be happy.

Heh, when you call it, you call it. :)

[ChrisIII]

Some of you might be interested that Gabriel Woolf is in one of the upcoming stories. Whether that means we'll see the return of a certain classic series villain remains to be seen.

[Spike-X]

Some of you might be interested that Gabriel Woolf is in one of the upcoming stories. Whether that means we'll see the return of a certain classic series villain remains to be seen.
I don't recognise the name...

[ChrisIII]

Woolf played Sutekh in Pyramids Of Mars.
The Doctor also refers to Sutekh as "Satan" in that episode. So it's possible there's a link since Woolf appears in "The Satan Pit".

Then again fans thought Sutekh (Or Fenric or the Master) would show up in "Boomtown" last season and we ended up with a Slitheen instead. But in this case the speculation is much stronger since Woolf is in it.

BTW Mark Of The Rani has been announced for a DVD release.

[OZZ]

Woolf played Sutekh in Pyramids Of Mars.
The Doctor also refers to Sutekh as "Satan" in that episode. So it's possible there's a link since Woolf appears in "The Satan Pit".

Then again fans thought Sutekh (Or Fenric or the Master) would show up in "Boomtown" last season and we ended up with a Slitheen instead. But in this case the speculation is much stronger since Woolf is in it.


From wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabriel_Woolf):

As announced on the Doctor Who Appreciation Society website, Woolf will appear in the 2006 series of Doctor Who, playing "Satan" in the two-part story The Impossible Planet and The Satan Pit.


btw, I think this second season of the new Doctor is absolutely fantastic. :)

[Jack]

I'm all for old villains returning, even though I was a new fan with the last series. I like shows to have mythos.

Any love for today's ep? (I really should try to remember the titles)

The villain was just the right level of creepy. For a moment, I actually thought "she" might be a Time Lord, given the name "The Wire", like "The Doctor" and "The Master", but it wasn't to be.

1953 was an interesting year to set it for me, since that's the year my parents were born (though my mother was just about to be born and my father was in the wrong country at the precise time). I'm not all that sure that they didn't get their decades a little confused, since the subplot was more fitting for a 60s episode. Also, black people? In that part of London? In 1953? I doubt it. As friendly neighbours, at any rate.

[Matt]

The Idiot's Lantern really did seem like a filler episode to me - everything in it just seemed to be lacking and of no real consequence. The villain(ess) was forgettable while the climax was far from dramatic. Certainly nowhere near the quality of School Reunion or even the Cyberman two parter...

The preview for next week looks quite promising though; quite the Cthulu vibe from it. The Doctor shocked at a black hole? He's seen enough of them (Time Lord technology was even powered by one!) so a normal or even harnessed black hole should be nothing special... unless it's a certain singularity that trapped a certain ancient figure from Time Lord history? Now that would be awesome...

[Dizzy D]

I'm all for old villains returning, even though I was a new fan with the last series. I like shows to have mythos.

Any love for today's ep? (I really should try to remember the titles)

The villain was just the right level of creepy. For a moment, I actually thought "she" might be a Time Lord, given the name "The Wire", like "The Doctor" and "The Master", but it wasn't to be.

1953 was an interesting year to set it for me, since that's the year my parents were born (though my mother was just about to be born and my father was in the wrong country at the precise time). I'm not all that sure that they didn't get their decades a little confused, since the subplot was more fitting for a 60s episode. Also, black people? In that part of London? In 1953? I doubt it. As friendly neighbours, at any rate.

I liked the villain, she was pretty creepy, though she sadly switched over to corny near the end. The face-stealing and all those faces in the TV were pretty good as well. I too thought the Wire might have been a Timelord for a short while.

Also on the plus-side, Rose going on her own investigation and figuring things out by herself. Too bad for her it backfired.

Ten's haircut really hurt him this episode. I just couldn't take him serious in some scenes. (On the plus side, I love the scene where he tries to talk to the police agents and gets knocked out. After the Cybermen allowing him a dialogue for five minutes or more last time, he deserved that). I do love Ten's amazing tongue, capable of identifying stuff by licking it. It's the third time he has done that this season.

I didn't like the subplot with the father, just too heavy-handed and cliched.

Irrelevant note: I'm looking around the web for a pic of that detective after he, the kid and the doc got ambushed by the Wire and his face was removed. With a bit of photoshopping that would become a movie poster for the Question.

[Spike-X]

Irrelevant note: I'm looking around the web for a pic of that detective after he, the kid and the doc got ambushed by the Wire and his face was removed. With a bit of photoshopping that would become a movie poster for the Question.

Here you go. A couple of screencaps. Best I could do.

[king mob]

btw, I think this second season of the new Doctor is absolutely fantastic. :)


I've been disapointed with it, too many episodes which are poorly scripted and some of the acting (see Billie in the Cyberman episodes) has been poor. It has also given us moments of sheer class like Girl in the Fireplace and Tooth and Claw.

[The Fury]

Doctor needs another companion. Rose is annoying me.

[Captain_Neutron]

Doctor needs another companion. Rose is annoying me.

My main problem at the moment is Tennant. Much as I want to like him, he keeps overplaying his lines. But since he doesn't seem to be able to match Ecclestone in genuine intensity, when he tries to act righteous or angry it comes off as either silly, or annoying. The last two episodes he seems to have been especially shouty and smug and I'm finding it a little unbearable. I'm not supposed to dislike the Doctor, am I? I just wish that Tennant would dial down the amateur dramatics a bit ( and that the scriptwriters and directors would stop encouraging him ). When he's being flippant, cheerful or just quietly serious, I really like him.

The show as a whole seems to be a little noisy and badly paced with its dialogue delivery, especially when combined with the frequently obtrusive background music. I'm still enjoying it though. Maureen Lipman was fantastic in this last one. Feeeeed Meeee! :D

[Dizzy D]

Here you go. A couple of screencaps. Best I could do.

Thanks.

tencharacterswerewanderingdownthestreet.

[TCJohnson]

Personally I really like Tennant and Rose. Some episodes are better than others, of course, but I have been enjoying the 2006 series so far.

[Ontir]

I LOVED the Christmas Invasion, which is the only new ep I've seen thus far. I loved Tennant's "No second chances, I'm that sort of man!", the wierdness of the Doctor is there, along with his determination. I also like the way they keep going back to Rose's mom and semi-demi-kinda-sorta-boyfriend, and the life she left behind. The stuff with the PM was quite good, as well. It starts off sort of funny, even giddy, but takes an all too realistic turn. Very well done!

[Ontir]

Here you go. A couple of screencaps. Best I could do.

Wht's the Question (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26743&d=1148898536) doing in Doctor Who?

[Spike-X]

Wht's the Question (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=26743&d=1148898536) doing in Doctor Who?
It's a BBC-DC crossover.
Next month - Superman vs the Daleks!

[Spike-X]

My main problem at the moment is Tennant. Much as I want to like him, he keeps overplaying his lines. But since he doesn't seem to be able to match Ecclestone in genuine intensity, when he tries to act righteous or angry it comes off as either silly, or annoying. The last two episodes he seems to have been especially shouty and smug and I'm finding it a little unbearable. I'm not supposed to dislike the Doctor, am I? I just wish that Tennant would dial down the amateur dramatics a bit ( and that the scriptwriters and directors would stop encouraging him ). When he's being flippant, cheerful or just quietly serious, I really like him.


I would have disagreed with you before seeing the Idiot's Lantern. Way too over-the-top.

[drwho]

You rang !!mwahhha

Anyway I like the current show. Some episodes are good some arent. Rose is a great companion although after watching her for awhile she starts looking like she has a chipmunk face.

[Ontir]

Spike-X, it's OK to dislike the Doctor. Hartnell's doctor wasn't just curmudgeonly, he was down-right rude. Colin Baker's could be arrogant, and even offensive. That's one of the things that I like about the series. The hero can, and sometimes is, someone you don't like very much, but he's the guy with the goods to save the day, so in the end you're with him!

[Matt]

I do think that the best episode of this season so far has been School Reunion followed by Tooth and Claw, mainly because the Doctor hasn't been so over the top (that and the plots were great).

[Cyke]

The preview for next week looks quite promising though; quite the Cthulu vibe from it. The Doctor shocked at a black hole? He's seen enough of them (Time Lord technology was even powered by one!) so a normal or even harnessed black hole should be nothing special... unless it's a certain singularity that trapped a certain ancient figure from Time Lord history? Now that would be awesome...

Oh, I dunno, in the preview it seems that the Doctor is more surprised that a black hole popped up when it shouldn't have, as opposed to a black hole just being there.

Of course, if it's tech-related, then maybe it *should* be impossible, since the Time Lords are gone (just as how travel and monitoring of parallel universes were wiped away).

And I do hope that you're right on the hunch about it being an ancient figure. It's a two-parter, after all.

[Cephus]

Spike-X, it's OK to dislike the Doctor. Hartnell's doctor wasn't just curmudgeonly, he was down-right rude. Colin Baker's could be arrogant, and even offensive. That's one of the things that I like about the series. The hero can, and sometimes is, someone you don't like very much, but he's the guy with the goods to save the day, so in the end you're with him!

I think the one thing that people forget about Dr. Who is that he's not really a hero, out to save the universe, he's just a very powerful, very intelligent guy out on an intergalactic and intertemporal joy ride. He doesn't answer to anyone, he does what he wants and usually, what he does works out for the best. The Doctor isn't a rolemodel, he's out looking for a good time and falls into a lot of bad situations.

The fact that he's "human" and has flaws is refreshing.

[ragnarok_2012]

Spike-X, it's OK to dislike the Doctor. Hartnell's doctor wasn't just curmudgeonly, he was down-right rude. Colin Baker's could be arrogant, and even offensive. That's one of the things that I like about the series. The hero can, and sometimes is, someone you don't like very much, but he's the guy with the goods to save the day, so in the end you're with him!

To an extent, I think you're right. However, Colin Baker's Doctor was atrocious. And yeah, everything I've read indicates that it was the production team that made him play the Doctor in that manner. But it was still bad enough that I stopped watching.

[king mob]

Spike-X, it's OK to dislike the Doctor. Hartnell's doctor wasn't just curmudgeonly, he was down-right rude. Colin Baker's could be arrogant, and even offensive. That's one of the things that I like about the series. The hero can, and sometimes is, someone you don't like very much, but he's the guy with the goods to save the day, so in the end you're with him!

Hartnell's Doctor was incredibly dark to start with, not to mention pretty unlikeable, something they did tone down. Pertwee could be priggish and annoying. Tom Baker was likeable but arrogant. Colin Baker was arrogant and threatening. McCoy was sneaky and unlikeable at times. Eccleston was unhinged at times.


So yes, the character has always been likeable as it was during the Troughton and Davidson eras. That makes the concept all the much better.

[Matt]

I actually disliked the Davidson Doctor because ... well, he was often a helpless wimp who simply didn't have the controlling skills of his other incarnations.

As for Colin Baker ... after seeing the man in person and doing some acting, I have to agree that it was the production team which made the 6th Doctor so horrible.

[Ontir]

I liked Davidson in general. He had one of the toughest jobs of all the Doctors, in that he immediately followed Tom Baker. That, I think was part of the problem in general. He was always after the writers to write him as differently as possible, and they didn't appreciate that. When he finally decided he would leave, they were happy. As I recall, he's the only Doctor who got offed. Consider the difference between that and the almost ceremonial transition from Baker to Davidson.

Colin Baker was a similar thing. I saw him at a Who con in Rochester, NY, @ the point that his second run was about to start. He talked about it being bad enough that he was a Baker with curly hair, he wasn't going to do ANYTHING that was "Tom" Bakerish. I enjoyed him being such a schmuck!

[rick]

School Reunion was just a classic episode, but despite how much I enjoyed it, my favoirte story from this year, at least so far, is last weeks Idiot's Lantern.

The whole episode just seemed to catch the whole feel of some of the classic Doctor Who episodes from the eary 70's, and I thought the lady playing "the Wire" was just a spot on perfect "Who" baddie.

On the whole, while I really did love last season and think Ecleston was one of the best Doctors ever, I think that Tennent does a much better job at carrying the right "tone" for a character like the Doctor and I am getting more impressed with him every week.

[Jack]

Today's was just wonderful.

[king mob]

Good episode, very old fashioned Who but i'll hang on to make full judgement next week.

[Ontir]

I do think that the best episode of this season so far has been School Reunion followed by Tooth and Claw, mainly because the Doctor hasn't been so over the top (that and the plots were great).

I just watched Tooth & Claw last night. It was actually frightening at times! Poor Princess Anne! I told a Scottish friend of mine about the joke, and she said that Anne gets a bad rap, that she's far more down to Earth than most of the others, and is, ulike the rest of her family, very pro-Scottish. As Irene is Scottish, that counts!

I'm Scottish too, but I've never been there! I'm also Irish, English, French, and Dutch!

[rick]

I just got done watching tonight’s Doctor Who, The Impossible Planet, and on the whole I did rather like it. Although I also have to say that I haven’t really been that crazy about the two-parters so far.

Still it had a pretty creepy feel, and I really liked the way that all of the computers kept warning everyone about the monster of the episode.

Not my favorite so far, but certainly a good solid episode.

[Spike-X]

Pretty good episode this week. I liked the awkward moment when they were talking about buying a house together...or not...

I'm glad they avoided the cliche of "This bad stuff only started happening when you two showed up, therefore you're responsible!"

[Xero]

Sorry, for me Impossible Planet pwnz0rz all previous Whos, it's just that good.

[Captain_Neutron]

WOW!

I thought that 'The Impossible Planet was amazing. I'm a sucker for this kind of sci-fi anyway, but this was really, really well done. The effects were great, the script was tight, the pacing was spot on, the little moments were carefully crafted, the acting was good and the voices worked. The amount of humour was just right. And it was so beautifully, wonderfully creepy. I got a bit of a 'Doom 3' vibe off of it ( I think I heard a familiar stock sound effect for the doors, got to rewatch )
Really, full-blown movies don't get much better than this. It makes up for all the ham-fisted silliness of the past 3 episodes. I love Matt Jones for writing this.

I hope that the second part can live up to all of the fun tension-building that was done this week.

[king mob]

I just watched Tooth & Claw last night. It was actually frightening at times! Poor Princess Anne! I told a Scottish friend of mine about the joke, and she said that Anne gets a bad rap, that she's far more down to Earth than most of the others, and is, ulike the rest of her family, very pro-Scottish. As Irene is Scottish, that counts!

I'm Scottish too, but I've never been there! I'm also Irish, English, French, and Dutch!


Were you born in installments?

[tricksterpup]

WOW!

I hope that the second part can live up to all of the fun tension-building that was done this week.
I am with you on this, i am hoping that the second half is as good as the first. This has been on of the Best Dr. Who's I have seen in a looooong time. It was well done and I have to commend the crew for the sets. They were beautifully crafted, especially the "Seal".

[Ontir]

Were you born in installments?

LOL:D No, I come from a long line of horny people who like to travel! :p

[Cyke]

'Impossible Planet' is exactly what I had wished for in a Star Trek movie.

[tricksterpup]

'Impossible Planet' is exactly what I had wished for in a Star Trek movie.
Dont turn around.

[Cyke]

Dont turn around.

*uses a mirror instead*

Yoink!

[king mob]

HUGE PICTURE SPOILER for this weeks episode. Don't scroll down if you don't want to see!





































http://photobucket.com/albums/i77/tomt25/Image2.jpg

[Matt]

Obviously Satan doesn't get dental coverage.

[Gaz]

The Doctor is gonna need a bigger screwdriver...

[Donald M.]

Obviously Satan doesn't get dental coverage.

That's British dentistry for you.

[LordEd1976]

Hell usually only gets lawyers and politicians. The dentist that would be there is the evil one from Marathon man and I doubt Satan would want him touching his teeth.

[ChrisIII]

Looks like the guy from LEGEND melted.

[Matt]

I'm currently watching 'The Impossible Planet' and there's one thing that's really striking me: Rose has become really, really annoying. The Doctor, being a 1,000+ year old alien, has a genuine excuse for acting a bit odd at times and having a completely different perspective on things ... but Rose's attitude makes me wish someone would slap her across the back of the head and tell her to grow up.

[Matt]

Oh yes, for any Aussies who are waiting for the new season (season 2 or 28, depending how you look at it) to be shown on TV - it's set to air starting July 8 with The Christmas Invasion.

[rick]

Oh yes, for any Aussies who are waiting for the new season (season 2 or 28, depending how you look at it) to be shown on TV - it's set to air starting July 8 with The Christmas Invasion.


They only showed the final episode from last season here in the US for the first time tonight.

I would go simply nuts for my Who fix if it wasn't for the net. As it is, I luckily normally manage to watch the new episode the same night that it first airs in the UK.

Random Doctor Who thoughts

Honestly, I wasn’t all that crazy about last weeks Impossible Planet though.

First off I agree with Matt that Rose just came across as kind of grating in her casualness about her situation.

I understand that the writers might think that it is realistic for a companion to get more comfortable with the weirdness of traveling around with the Doctor, in a “real” way it certainly would kind of makes sense. But the truth of the matter is that the Doctors companion, be it Rose, Jo Grant, Adric or Ace, is a stand in for you and me. And as such no matter how the character is portrayed in all other aspects, it’s important that they show a certain amount of wonder and awe at the new sights and miracles the Doctor shows them.

It’s the kind of wonder that Rose showed so clearly at the beginning of the “New Earth” episode earlier in the season. So when she was so blasé about the station and the black hole, it really didn’t work in the characters favor.

The second thing is that while I did like the whole creepy misfiring translation devices, and certainly Ol’ Nick looks pretty nasty, the episode just seemed to drag on a bit. I think that unless part two is a whole lot “busier” then part one, that the story would have been better off as a one parter.

I also wasn’t all that crazy about the Cybermen two parter either and thought that it also suffered from a bit too much padding. And it’s not that I have anything against the two parters. The ones from last season were just great. I just don’t think that the ones from this year worked out very well.

I did really like both “the Girl in the Fireplace” and “the Idiot’s Lantern”, especially the latter. I thought that both of those episodes managed to get quite a bit done at a decent clip, but still allowing for some great character moments. And while I know that a real fast pace isn’t to everyone’s liking, it certainly is a plus for me.


My favorite episode this season though is the beautifully nostalgic, “School Reunion”.

Leaving aside the whole Sarah Jane part for a minute, Tony Head was just so much fun to watch. Strong, resourceful and not in the least bit afraid of the Doctor, from his opening moment comforting a poor orphan girl to “You bad dog!” he is simply a wonderful villain for the Doctor and one who I would love to see again.

And then of course there was the wonderfully rich and meaningful performance from Elisabeth Sladen. In her first reaction to seeing the TARDIS, Sladen managed to convey shock, wonder, fear and even a little revulsion that stopped looking like acting and reminded me completely of real life. Add into it her combination of sorrow and her strength while talking about what it means to travel with the Doctor and then to try to adjust back to the real world was again just stunning to watch.

A first class episode.

Finally, I re-watched the final from last season when it aired on television tonight and while I do like Tennant and think he is a great Doctor, it was sad to see the final Eccleston. His Doctor was just amazing to watch and I think that without a doubt, at least for me, he is one of my all time favorite Doctor, maybe even currently number 1.

Although Pertwee is still pretty high up there, don’t get me wrong.

I also miss Jack, but am looking forward to Torchwood. He is, by the way, the only reason I went to see the new version of the Producers.

He made a great singing Nazi.

[adamthered]

Just watched the first season finale last night. Great stuff. Before this season I hadn't watched any Doctor Who for much of the past decade. I've been DLing the season two episodes because I just can't wait for more. Should get the Christmas Invasion watched this weekend.

And the greatest thing about this is my wife has gotten into it. I never thought she'd like it.

[Deathstroke]

I watched the season finale on Sci-Fi last night and once again it was a great episode. I'm really saddened by the fact we'll never see Christopher Eccleston back as The Doctor most likely.

[Donald M.]

I watched the season finale on Sci-Fi last night and once again it was a great episode. I'm really saddened by the fact we'll never see Christopher Eccleston back as The Doctor most likely.

There's always hope for a [Insert Number Here] Doctors style team up, as has been a long-time Who tradition.

Know what I'd like to see? A team-up with Tennant, Eccleston and Paul McGann in which McGann regenerates into Eccleston while Eccleston looks on.

Bet that's never happened in Who history.

[Matt]

It sort of happened once.

When the 4th Doctor (Tom Baker) regenerated into the 5th Doctor, a mysterious figure was present that merged with the Doctor. The figure was actually a physical representation of the Doctor's future lives, which manifested itself to ensure the Doctor's survival.

If you count the Doctor's mindscape as a setting, then his various incarnations are already there in various states. For example, in Shadow of the Scourge the 7th Doctor could quite clearly identify the yet unborn 8th Doctor inside his own mind.

[Cyke]

Wellp, one spoiler from The Satan Pit which is semi-relevant to the discussion:

About the comments that the Doctor shouldn't be surprised about a black hole, he explains the ease of the TARDIS flying against its pull by saying the Time Lords not only used black holes, but that they 'practically invented them.'

[ragnarok_2012]

There's always hope for a [Insert Number Here] Doctors style team up, as has been a long-time Who tradition.

Know what I'd like to see? A team-up with Tennant, Eccleston and Paul McGann in which McGann regenerates into Eccleston while Eccleston looks on.

Bet that's never happened in Who history.

I'd love to see that!

I've been looking on wikipedia. If they're to be believed, the rights to the McGann Doctor have reverted back to the BBC (that movie was a join Universal, Fox & BBC production). So it might be doable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_McGann

McCoy, McGann, Eccleston & Tennant would all be fun together, I'm sure.

[rick]

I know that I wasn’t that thrilled with “The Impossible Planet”, but part two, The Satan Pit was simply one of the most exciting, thoughtful and emotionally satisfying episodes of the series to date.

I’m not going to spoil anything, but it was a great adventure highlighting human beings at their best.

And then of course there’s that scary matter of prophesy.

Just an awesome episode.

[Matt]

I just got done watching it myself and I have to say that I was rather impressed. The only question I have is how did the TARDIS get down to where the Doctor found it? When it fell, the seal was still shut...
Then again, it's a semi-sentient Time/Space machine that happens to scan it's own timeline and is rather protective of the Doctor so it could have perhaps just shifted itself there after it fell for all I know.

I'm actually hoping Satan's little prophecy about Rose does come true. I'm actually getting a bit sick of her ... Hm, perhaps the prophecy will deliver the big shock to the Doctor that's been rumoured, the one which will reverse his recent rather casual attitude of popping in and fixing things while laughing at people.

I did like the character of Mr Jefferson a lot, outstanding stuff for a supporting character. "God speed, Mr Jefferson."

The preview for next week looks interesting as well. Alien abduction/space nuts looking to unlock the secrets of the Universe maybe? They know all about the Doctor and Rose somehow, that's for sure, and want the Doctor captured - probably to get their hands on the TARDIS.

[Spike-X]

And then of course there’s that scary matter of prophesy.


Indeed. From the hints given both here and in Confidential a couple of weeks ago, I'm expecting to need quite a large box of tissues when it comes time for Rose Tyler to make her departure, in whatever form that may be.

[tricksterpup]

I enjoyed Satan's pit alot, but I gotta watch it again today. I was a little out of it after the club. Saw it at 3 am this morning. I gotta watch it while I am more awake.
But the prophecy with Rose. I think what the "voice" was trying to do was to shake everyone up. I think Rose is starting to understand how dangerous it is to be around the Doctor.
Didn't Tegan Jovanka finally snap at the end cause of all the danger? eh, i am still tired, and a bit hung over.

[rick]

The preview for next week looks interesting as well. Alien abduction/space nuts looking to unlock the secrets of the Universe maybe? They know all about the Doctor and Rose somehow, that's for sure, and want the Doctor captured - probably to get their hands on the TARDIS.


I'm a huge fan of Marc Warren from his role as Danny on Hustle, so I am looking forward to his turn on Doctor Who. It looks like a fun, paranoid episode.

[Cyke]

I did like the character of Mr Jefferson a lot, outstanding stuff for a supporting character. "God speed, Mr Jefferson."


Yeah, when we first met Mr. Jefferson last week, I could see the gun-toting, blaze of glory cliche' coming a mile away. The same violent fanatic that we see in so many shows and movies that make the military look like fools.

However, he was anything but. He wisely advised against fighting their way out, he always deferred authority to whoever had better expertise, he always kept his cool. He was totally against the whole manic-military cliche and written very well, probably the way a proper military officer should be .

I was surprised at how sad I was when he died heroically.

[Jack]

Great episode, definitely. I loved both the times the Doctor dropped himself into the pit, really explains his character perfectly. Continued the plot of Rose being capable, which I liked, but it might well herald the end of her Companionship. And you've got to love the TARDIS just being able to tow the rocket away from a black hole without any effort, despite how impossible it was built up to be. When the Doctor actually makes the TARDIS fly, then you know they're in trouble, since the last time he did it was against the Dalek fleet.

Also, in the preview... "Doctor what?" Heheheheh.

[The Fury]

I liked it alot.

What I was surprised to see is "The Beast" (Satan. etc etc). I was thinking that all that and we'd never actually see any demon being. But that was cool.

[Captain Jim]

Does anybody know if SciFi has any plans to air Season Two and if so, when?

[Spike-X]

Yeah, when we first met Mr. Jefferson last week, I could see the gun-toting, blaze of glory cliche' coming a mile away. The same violent fanatic that we see in so many shows and movies that make the military look like fools.

However, he was anything but. He wisely advised against fighting their way out, he always deferred authority to whoever had better expertise, he always kept his cool. He was totally against the whole manic-military cliche and written very well, probably the way a proper military officer should be .

I was surprised at how sad I was when he died heroically.
Yeah, he was a great character. Probably my favourite one-off supporting character so far in the new series (Lynda-with-a-Y being a close second).

[Spike-X]

Geek note for us comics fans - Russell T. Davies says on this week's Doctor Who Confidential that he used Simon Bisley's art as inspiration for the look of The Devil in The Satan Pit.

[thehod]

Something else that caught my ear on Confidential was that Russell T Davies stated that the last two episodes have been a little more character driven, and a little more introspective on the Doctor and his place and understanding of the universe.

I'm paraphrasing here, but he said something like "Its a little slower and a little more character based, before all hell breaks loose in the last few episodes."

Hang on....



I though all hell had already broken loose.

[Mac Danny]

Hey, I just saw the finale of the 9th Dr's season. It was great! fantastic even!

I watched it twice before removing it from my DVR. I can't wait to see the season you all are seeing right now.

Now I was not that into Dr. Who until this season. I had not seen much here in the US, except for that tv movie. which was not good IMO.

So I have some questions regarding the finale for those in the know about the doctor.

1) Why leave Cap. Jack behind?? I know they wanted Rose to expeirience the regenration alone but it seemed odd to leave him.

2) If you could destroy all the Daleks by sacrificing one of your 12 lives to the time vortex, why have a time war? Seems to me if you have 12 lives and you can use one to end the conflict with the Daleks, why not just do that.

All in al it was a fantastic season! I am going to buy the DVD set whenit comes out. can't wait for the next season.

-Dan

[Cyke]

1) Why leave Cap. Jack behind?? I know they wanted Rose to expeirience the regenration alone but it seemed odd to leave him.

Storywise: I don't think the Doctor knew that Captain Harkness was resurrected at the time, and Rose couldn't remember anything from her power-up. Later on, in a brief Christmas special, it's mentioned that the Doctor knows he's alive, but that he has his own destiny to fulfill.

Behind the scenes:
Captain Jack Harkness is getting his own spinoff called 'Torchwood.' It's about an extremely efficient and clandestine investigative agency determined to save Britain from all unconventional steps. Capt. Harkness will join the agency so that he can use their resources to find the Doctor.


2) If you could destroy all the Daleks by sacrificing one of your 12 lives to the time vortex, why have a time war? Seems to me if you have 12 lives and you can use one to end the conflict with the Daleks, why not just do that.

I think because it was a last resort that the Time Lords would dare not try due to its unpredictable effects.

However, it should be noted that we don't know the full details of the Time War. It could very well be that the Eighth Doctor died in order to stop the Time War itself.

[ragnarok_2012]

I'm assuming the Daleks had some sort of time technology to be able to go toe to toe with the Time Lords.

Maybe whatever time tech they had was lost in the Time War, and the time tech they had at the time would have prevented the "become Goddess of Time & Space and revise reality."

[Ontir]

If I understand the question about the Daleks right, avoiding a time war isnt' something the Timelords could neccessarily do, as the Daleks are also time travelers. That's part of what made them so fearsome. When the Doctor first met them, they were limited in their ability to make war on the Thals, because they couldn't leave their compound. Then, after meeting the Doctor, they evolved their technology, and were able to go out, and conquer the rest of their world, before moving into space. After other encounters with the Doctor, they built the Time Corridor (Although apparently refered to as a DARDIS in one script), becoming even more formidable, and furthering their goals of being the only living things in all the universe. Some have asked why the Daleks would need time travel ability, and I think the answers are relatively simple. Rapid transit across vast distances for a start, because it's a ferocious weapon that this brutal species wouldn't NOT use, if it were at their disposal, and lastly, because eventually, they know they'll have to go toe to toe with the Timelords, who are vastly older, and considerably more powerful and capable of the greatest and most subtle manipulations of the time-stream. They can't out finesse them, they MUST outnumber them.

[Matt]

The Doctor knew Jack was alive, he stated 'He's busy, he's got to help rebuild the Earth!'. Of course, he could have been lying to ease Rose's concerns...

What Rose did was insanely dangerous and though it was poorly explained in the show, messing with the Time Vortex is a major, major no-no.

When Rassilon built the new (at the time) science based Time Lord society, one of the achievements was the construction of the Eye of Harmony, which powered Gallifrey and all TARDISes throughout SpaceTime. The Eye of Harmony did something much more than that, though - it anchored time and thus the Time Vortex to Gallifrey and thus the Time Lords gave the Universe continuity. Continuity in regards that a set number of events happened in a set order, the past happened and the future will happen, fundamental aspects of the Universe.

And thus the Web of Time was imposed upon the Vortex and the Universe, sort of strands across reality itself which connected the set past, set present and set future. The Web of Time, in a way, supported continuity while continuity supported the Web of Time (best if you don't think about it).

The Time Lords shunted Gallifrey out of normal spacetime so that they existed outside of the set continuity, so they could monitor and effect changes as they deemed necessary and also as a way of defending their own planet. While this continuity was in effect, it was actually quite tricky to change history (as shown in 'Pyramids of Mars' it took beings of immense power to do so). Time Lords could change time since they were, in a lot of ways, outside of time and had a special relationship with it - hence they were always reluctant to interferre because if they changed things too much then they would place strain on the Web of Time.

When Rose did what she did, she made a huge change to continuity - she wiped out one of the most powerful and influential races in existence. The Time Lords could have done that at almost any time they wished, but they knew that the impact that could have on continuity could mean the unravelling of the web of time.

I'll break it down into a simpler analogy; think of World War II. Most of it was conventional warfar, ground combat with aerial support and the like. Then someone broke out a nuke and everyone went "OMG!" Sometimes in war, there are forces which may indeed win you the war but you're far better off not messing with because it could screw thing up for everybody, no matter who survives.

Side note: TARDISes actually (usually) travel along the strands of the web of time in the vortex, which is why some trips take almost no time to make and others can take considerable time - different strands are different lengths and take longer to travel along.

[Matt]

I'm assuming the Daleks had some sort of time technology to be able to go toe to toe with the Time Lords.

Daleks have had time travel technology ever since the first Doctor serial 'The Chase', they had temporal weapons as early as 'The Daleks Masterplan'. Though the intervention of the 4th Doctor later set back the Dalek's development 1,000 years or so ('Genesis of the Daleks'), it's a safe bet that they still developed those technologies - as seen in various later Dalek stories. They had certain developed time corridor technology.

While the Dalek's time technology was not as sophisticated or capable as that of the Time Lords, they were far more agressive and numerous - which gave them an equal footing against the far more sedate Gallifreyans.

[Matt]

If I understand the question about the Daleks right, avoiding a time war isnt' something the Timelords could neccessarily do, as the Daleks are also time travelers.

Some of the novels have suggested/implied that certain Time Lords/The Matrix knew that one day Gallifrey would be destroyed but that it would have to happen at precisely the right point in time and by the right species so that the Universe could continue as it should. It may sound silly but it should be understood that the overall goal of the Time Lords wasn't to rule the Universe or impose their power over everything else (which they could have quite easily done if they were so inclined) but instead to safeguard time, to make sure the Universe didn't fall into chaos.

[Ontir]

That has a sound Whovian logic to it. It also feeds some of my theories about what the Doctor is really up to, and where his adventures will utlimately lead him to.

[Spike-X]

Care to share?

[Mac Danny]

The Doctor knew Jack was alive, he stated 'He's busy, he's got to help rebuild the Earth!'. Of course, he could have been lying to ease Rose's concerns...

What Rose did was insanely dangerous and though it was poorly explained in the show, messing with the Time Vortex is a major, major no-no.

When Rassilon built the new (at the time) science based Time Lord society, one of the achievements was the construction of the Eye of Harmony, which powered Gallifrey and all TARDISes throughout SpaceTime. The Eye of Harmony did something much more than that, though - it anchored time and thus the Time Vortex to Gallifrey and thus the Time Lords gave the Universe continuity. Continuity in regards that a set number of events happened in a set order, the past happened and the future will happen, fundamental aspects of the Universe.

And thus the Web of Time was imposed upon the Vortex and the Universe, sort of strands across reality itself which connected the set past, set present and set future. The Web of Time, in a way, supported continuity while continuity supported the Web of Time (best if you don't think about it).

The Time Lords shunted Gallifrey out of normal spacetime so that they existed outside of the set continuity, so they could monitor and effect changes as they deemed necessary and also as a way of defending their own planet. While this continuity was in effect, it was actually quite tricky to change history (as shown in 'Pyramids of Mars' it took beings of immense power to do so). Time Lords could change time since they were, in a lot of ways, outside of time and had a special relationship with it - hence they were always reluctant to interferre because if they changed things too much then they would place strain on the Web of Time.

When Rose did what she did, she made a huge change to continuity - she wiped out one of the most powerful and influential races in existence. The Time Lords could have done that at almost any time they wished, but they knew that the impact that could have on continuity could mean the unravelling of the web of time.

I'll break it down into a simpler analogy; think of World War II. Most of it was conventional warfar, ground combat with aerial support and the like. Then someone broke out a nuke and everyone went "OMG!" Sometimes in war, there are forces which may indeed win you the war but you're far better off not messing with because it could screw thing up for everybody, no matter who survives.

Side note: TARDISes actually (usually) travel along the strands of the web of time in the vortex, which is why some trips take almost no time to make and others can take considerable time - different strands are different lengths and take longer to travel along.

Thanks so much for the explination. I am new to the Doctor's universe so i appreciate the guidance.

Hate waiting for the next season...

[Gaz]

I'm gonna be the Ood man out and say that I really didn't like The Satan Pit. The whole "Doctor opens himself to religion and becomes wiser" theme as it appeared to me just rubs me the wrong way whenever it's done and while the Rose plot was good tense stuff, it was outweighed by that, mainly because Tennant's so powerful in his performance, and partly because the episode and series names highlight both elements (the pit was the focus and it's the Doctor's show)

[Ontir]

Care to share?

If you're an extra-terrestrial, with access to all of time and space, why would you continuously go back to one lonely little world?

[Gaz]

If you're an extra-terrestrial, with access to all of time and space, why would you continuously go back to one lonely little world?
Um, his long speeches on how great humans are hasn't clued you in?

[Matt]

If you're an extra-terrestrial, with access to all of time and space, why would you continuously go back to one lonely little world?

As Gaz pointed out, the Doctor just has a huge soft spot for humans.

Speaking of which, I'd like to see one episode opening with the Doctor catching up with one of his old earth friends before rushing off to adventure - imagine the Doctor and Rose having a cup of tea with the Brigadier before they here an alarm from the TARDIS and rush off.

[Ontir]

I think there might just be more than that, and there are a few plot-points, including the McGann Doctor that play into the theory, but I'm intentionally being vague, and that's not going to change. I've got a story I hope, one day, to tell!

[Jack]

I can't speak for its accuracy, but my dad (who watched Who of old) tells me that the Time Lords used to occasionally banish the Doctor to Earth for breaking rules, so the producers would have an excuse to keep the budget down on episodes for awhile.

[Perry Holley]

the Time Lords used to occasionally banish the Doctor to Earth for breaking rulesYep. Mind you, these were the same Time Lords who would occasionally make him the President of Gallifrey.

Those wacky, wacky Time Lords.

[rick]

Speaking of which, I'd like to see one episode opening with the Doctor catching up with one of his old earth friends before rushing off to adventure - imagine the Doctor and Rose having a cup of tea with the Brigadier before they here an alarm from the TARDIS and rush off.


I for one would love to see the Doctor casually run into someone from his past. No big crisis, no monster, just the Doctor bumping out of the blue into Jo Grant Harry or the Brigadier would be very, very cool to see.

[Matt]

The Time Lords banished the Doctor once to Earth for the crime of interferring with other races - they placed the 2nd Doctor on trial and found him guilty. Therefore they forced a regeneration of him, exiled him to 20th century Earth and took away his knowledge of time travel theory (and disabled the Doctor's TARDIS).

During this time, the 3rd Doctor acted as a scientific advisor to UNIT under the commander of Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart, who has gone on to appear throughout the series with the last time being the 7th Doctor adventure Battlefield.

[Ontir]

Wasn't the 3rd Doctor's sentence a "life sentence" that effectively ended with his next regeneration?

[Matt]

Wasn't the 3rd Doctor's sentence a "life sentence" that effectively ended with his next regeneration?

Nah, the Time Lords gave the 3rd Doctor back the full use of his TARDIS and all necessary knowledge after the Doctor saved Gallifrey's ass when Omega decided he'd take a crack at taking down the Time Lords for their betrayal - as seen in the tv serial The Three Doctors (which saw the first three Doctors team up, though Hartnell was quite unwell at the time).

[rick]

Wasn't the 3rd Doctor's sentence a "life sentence" that effectively ended with his next regeneration?

Naw. Although it took awhile, eventually the 3rd Doctor had a working TARDIS and was galavanting around the universe with the best of them.

[Ontir]

Oh. I thought he was able to travel in space, but only contemporaneously.

BTW, Dr3's son Sean is currently in Goal! the Dream Begins, and he is, as usual good. He reminds me so much of his dad. He doesn't sound like him, but he looks like him. It'd be cool if RTD got him to play the current head of U.N.I.T.!

[Spike-X]

If you're an extra-terrestrial, with access to all of time and space, why would you continuously go back to one lonely little world?
Because all his friends live there?

[Mac Danny]

If you're an extra-terrestrial, with access to all of time and space, why would you continuously go back to one lonely little world?


Well if you believe the 9th Doctor. it's the only place to get milk.

[Matt]

He must have been joking, since the Doctor himself got milk from the queen bat of the caves of androzani (in the serial 'the caves of androzani', not surprisingly).

[Ontir]

OK Matt. You've officially scared me!

That's the most obscure thing I've run across since a friend of a friend, won a radio contest because he knew Spock's blood-type!:eek:

[Matt]

It's not that obscure, since the milk from the queen bat was the antitode to the poison that both the 5th Doctor and Peri had been afflicted with.
Unfortunately the 5th Doctor could only get enough milk to cure Peri and thus he died.

[Web of Fear]

He must have been joking, since the Doctor himself got milk from the queen bat of the caves of androzani (in the serial 'the caves of androzani', not surprisingly).

For quite a lot of effort and danger, you don't get much milk from a queen bat. Much easier to go earth and pop into a supermarket. Who'd want bat's milk in their tea anyway?;)

[Ontir]

Is it OK to put Queen Bat's milk in Earl Grey? :rolleyes:

[thehod]

Is it OK to put Queen Bat's milk in Earl Grey? :rolleyes:

Absolutly not.



Its lemon in Earl Grey.

[ChrisIII]

Sorry to correct you Matt, but the Doctor did get enough to cure both himself and Peri-but he spilled some on the way back to the TARDIS.

[Matt]

That's just semantics - he was unable to bring enough back to cure them both.

[Nate C.]

Okay, I have a DVD Dr Who question for you gentlemen, if you please.

I grew up watching the Baker series and have greatly enjoyed the season with Ecclesiwon'teventrytofinishhisname. Here's my question.

I'm a start at the beginning kind of guy. I know there have been multiple series' and multiple box sets (incomplete) for the series'.

Where can I go and find a more coprehensive set to get started on? Sort of like the Star Treak box sets where you know where you're starting and stoping. I'm very confused looking at Ebay and Amazon, etc. for all the different Doc's, sets, times, and it seems they are all "incomplete", instead focusing on major storylines.

[Web of Fear]

I don't think that other than the "Beginning" box set, and the "Key to Time" (Region 1 only) that there are any DVD box sets from the classic series (unless you count "Lost in Time", but that just odd surviving first and second doctor episodes).

The BBC isn't releasing the original series in order of transmission and just releases indivdual stories, not entire series like the Star Trek DVD's.

I would presume that the stories that do have overriding arc (E Space, Black Guardian and Trial of a Timelord) will be released at some time in the future in a box set, but that's pure speculation on my behalf.

[ChrisIII]

Part of the reason for that is that Doctor Who is an incomplete series-several episodes-including some whole serials-were lost or destroyed by the BBC, although several have been recovered (Most famously "Tomb Of The Cybermen"), and fans and experts are continuing an extensive global search in the hope of finding more lost stories. Some notable lost stories include "Marco Polo", an epic historical story, and "Power Of The Daleks" the first Troughton story.

This really only applies to the B & W period (Hartnell/Troughton era) though, although several Pertwee episodes are only available in Black and white, although I've heard lately there have been some attempts at color restoration. Everything from Tom Baker on is perfectly intact.

Several of the old stories are available of course in script and novel form (Most of classic Doctor Who was adapted into a series of novels) and some 'reconstructions' have been made using remaining clips/photographs. There are also some nearly complete stories which have justified previous video releases-"The Tenth Planet" "The Invasion" and "The Ice Warriors" are only missing one or two episodes.

[Web of Fear]

Several of soundtracks to the "missing" stories are available on CD

[Web of Fear]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/news/cult/news/drwho/2006/06/15/32946.shtml

[tricksterpup]

Sad but expected.
heh.. just imagine if the Doctor picked up Jackie as his new assistant.

Bye bye Billie
Bye bye BillieAward-winning Piper to depart at the end of series two.

Billie Piper is leave Doctor Who in the nail-biting series two finale.

Over the past two years, Billie has taken the character of Rose Tyler on an adventure of a lifetime, travelling across the galaxy with the Doctor.

"Rose and I have gone on the most incredible journey with Russell T Davies and the cast and crew of Doctor Who over the past two years," said Billie.

"It has been an amazing adventure, and I can confirm it comes to an end, for now at least, as series two climaxes.

"I am truly indebted to Russell for giving me the chance to play Rose Tyler, and to all the Doctor Who fans old and new who have been so supportive of me in this amazing role. Thank you so much."

Russell T Davies, writer and Executive Producer adds: "It has been a wonderful experience working with Billie – we will miss her – and wish her all the success in the world for her future.

"However, the Doctor Who team have had a whole year to plan this final scene and have created a stunning exit for Rose Tyler.

"The Doctor lives a dangerous life and when Rose joined him on his adventures she was aware of this. With a series climax called Doomsday on its way, I can't guarantee who will survive and who won't, but I can assure you the TARDIS is going on its scariest journey yet!"

Since taking on the role of Rose Tyler, Billie has received both critical and popular acclaim. She was awarded The National Television Award for Most Popular Actress 2005 and The South Bank Show's Breakthrough Award for Rising British Talent.

Billie is currently filming the BBC's adaptation of multi award-winning writer Philip Pullman's The Ruby In The Smoke in which she plays the title role, Sally Lockhart.

Filming on the second novel The Shadow In The North will commence later this summer.

Doctor Who series three also starts filming again later this summer and will return with a Christmas special in 2006 and another series of 13 episodes for 2007.

[Web of Fear]

Sad but expected.
heh.. just imagine if the Doctor picked up Jackie as his new assistant.

That's some concept :eek:

[Matt]

I'm actually glad she's leaving - she's been getting just too damn annoying of late. Maybe she'll get killed by a Yeti robot ... I'd pay to see that!

[Deathstroke]

I'm actually kind of bummed reading the news about Billie Piper leaving. I know the companions don't tend to stick around forever. However I really wanted to see Rose stay for much longer than two seasons.

Since I haven't seen the Sarah Jane Smith/K9 episode and I don't know the result of that, how about a Companion Return?

[MatthewC]

I'm actually glad she's leaving - she's been getting just too damn annoying of late. Maybe she'll get killed by a Yeti robot ... I'd pay to see that!

Let's play, "design the new Companion". Everybody gets to pick one trait they want to see in the new Companion, and we see what they shake out as.

As the originator, I'll start. Let's make him male. Any woman is just going to be compared to Rose.

Next?

[Matt]

Alright, we have 'Male'.
I'll add 'As unlike Adric as possible'.

[Mac Danny]

Does anyone know if Sci Fi will show the Christmas Invasion episode / telemovie?

Or Is it on the DVD set??


Thanks!

-Dan

[Matt]

The Christmas Invasion isn't on DVD yet - however, it will be on the first 10th Doctor DVD to be released. No, I don't know when that'll be and it will depend on which country you live in anyhow.

Australia airs Dr Who before the US does and we're getting the Christmas Invasion on July 8, so don't expect in in the US before then at any rate.

[Captain Jim]

I've only seen season one to date, but I've really liked Billie there. I'll be sorry to see her go.

[ragnarok_2012]

Alright, we have 'Male'.
I'll add 'As unlike Adric as possible'.

So he's bad at math, dresses well, can't ride a bicycle and doesn't throw up on camera?

[Matt]

You'd also have to include 'most hated companion' to be reversed as well. That and the guy portraying him would actually be able to act.

[ragnarok_2012]

You'd also have to include 'most hated companion' to be reversed as well. That and the guy portraying him would actually be able to act.

Are you saying the Adric is generally considered the best loved companion?

We can name him Cirda. He'll be played by Heath Ledger, who will constantly be dressed at the height of fashion. His inability to do math will tend to lead him into peril.

[Matt]

Are you saying the Adric is generally considered the best loved companion?

We can name him Cirda. He'll be played by Heath Ledger, who will constantly be dressed at the height of fashion. His inability to do math will tend to lead him into peril.

No, Adric was definitely one of the most hated of all the companions (please note I said to be reversed in my statement).

[Web of Fear]

Does anyone know if Sci Fi will show the Christmas Invasion episode / telemovie?

Or Is it on the DVD set??


Thanks!

-Dan

You can already get the Christmas Invasion on a vanilla Region 2 DVD, which also has New Earth on it.

It's also due to be included the the Second Series DVD box set, due for UK release in November.

[ragnarok_2012]

No, Adric was definitely one of the most hated of all the companions (please note I said to be reversed in my statement).

We shall all worship Cirda!

Maybe Captain Jack was the Anti-Adric.

[thehod]

Maybe Captain Jack was the Anti-Adric.

So he had 6 + 6 + 6 = 11 on his head?

[ChrisIII]

There will probably be a new female companion, as we've already had two males already (Adam and Jack).

I've suggested in the past that perhaps a new companion could be an alien and/or a CG character. However a CG character could be expensive and hard on Who's bigger but still limited budget. A character in makeup could do well though and we've had plenty of those in sci-fi already with no problems save the actor having to sit in hot makeup :)

Of course the Doctor has had alien companions before but they've all been pretty much indistinquishable from normal humans. As for how the alien companion could fit into Earth surroundings, perhaps a disguise could be in order, ala the image inducers from Marvel comics.

Of course if they really wanted to be daring, have a 'good' Cyberman or Dalek join the crew (The DWM comics attempted this with a Cyberman). Of course there's the problem of an actor having to be suited up constantly.

One thing that's never truely been done before is to have the Doctor travel around with an older human, unless you count Evelyn Smythe from the audios or loosely the Brigidiar from the 80's serials. That could make for an interesting change of pace. Bill Nighy might have missed his chance to play the Doctor but perhaps he could make an interesting companion.

[Spike-X]

Billie's leaving!!

Yep.

And from the way they've been foreshadowing her departure in the last couple of episodes, and on Confidential, I don't thing it's going to be a farewell of the, "Well, it's been a blast, but I'm off home. Cheers!" type.

I expect I shall be requiring tissues.

[OZZ]

Man.... that's a bummer, I thought I had read earlier how she was signed through season 3 at the least. :(

She has really become one of my favorite companions. I'll be sad to see her go.

[Dr.Fate]

I expect I shall be requiring tissues. And I expect I shall be requiring some party poppers. I'd also like the ability to dance on her grave once she dies.

As you can guess I don't like Rose to much, for some reason she just annoys the hell out of me.

[Ontir]

Absolutly not.



Its lemon in Earl Grey.


LOL, I knew a Brit would HAVE to respond to that!!! :evilsmile :D :p

A few years ago, working at a cinema, a British co-worker observed another co-worker pouring milk into Earl Grey, and I thought he was going to have a stroke on the spot. "...you... well, it IS Earl Grey, you know you can't do that... it's just..."

[Ontir]

That's some concept :eek:


LOL!

"Whatyoudoin'thatfor?"
"Can'tyouseethat'sdangerous?!?"
"Whycan'tthisthingevergettothebeach?!?"

He'd drop her home in a days time!

[king mob]

There will probably be a new female companion, as we've already had two males already (Adam and Jack).




Expect lots of Eastenders actresses calling up their agents as we speak. The gossip is (according to friends who work for BBC Wales), is they want the next companion to be Welsh. No, it won't be Charlotte Church, though it would be great if it was.

"eyy, Doc, can we stop at Quik Save for 20 Silk Cut and a case of WKD before we fight the Daleks"

[Dr.Fate]

Expect lots of Eastenders actresses calling up their agents as we speak. The gossip is (according to friends who work for BBC Wales), is they want the next companion to be Welsh. No, it won't be Charlotte Church, though it would be great if it was.

"eyy, Doc, can we stop at Quik Save for 20 Silk Cut and a case of WKD before we fight the Daleks" Well if that were the case I could put it on mute and have something nice to look at, at least.

[Matt]

LOL, I knew a Brit would HAVE to respond to that!!! :evilsmile :D :p

A few years ago, working at a cinema, a British co-worker observed another co-worker pouring milk into Earl Grey, and I thought he was going to have a stroke on the spot. "...you... well, it IS Earl Grey, you know you can't do that... it's just..."

I believe the British have declared war for far less serious atrocities! Oh, the humanity!

As for companions... Outpost Gallifrey has summed up the current rumours going around quite nicely:
Having been first to break the news yesterday of Billie Piper's confirmed departure from Doctor Who, today's issue of The Sun states that "Former Crossroads stunner Freema Agyeman was last night revealed to be the front-runner to replace Billie Piper in Doctor Who. Freema, 26, will appear in the final two episodes of the BBC1 sci-fi's current series playing the character Adeola. She joins the Timelord — played by David Tennant — and his sidekick Rose Tyler in battle against the dreaded Cybermen. Insiders say Freema, will join the Doctor in the Tardis full-time in the third series after her appearance in the episodes called Army Of Ghosts and Doomsday. ... The highlight of Freema's career so far has been playing seductress Lola Wise in doomed ITV soap Crossroads in 2001. She said: 'I loved playing Lola. She was an 18-year-old girl with a lot of angst. She wanted to sleep with all the boys and have fun.' The Londoner, who left Middlesex University with a BA Honours degree in Performing Arts and Design, also appeared in Casualty, The Bill and Silent Witness. Last night a BBC source said: 'Freema is a fantastic actress. She is great in the final episode. And she is more than capable of stepping into Billie's shoes to play the Doctor's new cohort. No one knew Billie could act before we gave her the job — and she has proved to be a sensation.' Freema, who also studied at Radford University in Virginia in America, could join the Timelord in new adventures that will see them meeting Shakespeare in the third series. Filming starts in just five weeks. ... Last night a BBC spokeswoman refused to confirm Freema was taking over from Billie as Dr Who's sidekick. Other names linked to the role include former EastEnder Michelle Ryan (Zoe Slater). She is believed to have auditioned with show bosses for the part."

The Daily Express has the next rumour - the paper reports that Nikki Sanderson, who has appeared in Coronation Street, is in the running for the part. The Mirror, which has been running "Billie Quits" stories for 15 months, today takes her to task for telling "lies" about staying in the show ("Who's been a Silly Billie", link here): "Looks like Billie's been giving Pinocchio a run for his money in the longnose stakes. Tut, tut." The paper also says that Piper has "stunned TV bosses" who "begged her to stay" but she "did not want to become typecast". (The Daily Star is also claiming an "exclusive" today that Billie Piper will leave Doctor Who at the end of Series Two, reported widely yesterday)

There is no word on whether any of these are in the show's plans for future episodes; however, several sources have told Outpost Gallifrey that, as noted yesterday, the departure of Billie Piper has been in the planning stages since last fall (so there would have been ample time for the show to replace Piper, if such an event is happening in the final episodes... though no word as yet on whether a new companion would be introduced this year or next.) Also reported at Sky News, Ananova.

[Spike-X]

The Daily Mirror taking someone else to task for being flexible with the truth?

That's hilarious.

[Matt]

Well, it seems that the Cybermen will be returning which is neat. It'd be interesting to see what the reaction would be if Rose was captured and Upgraded, wouldn't it?

If anything could shatter the Doctor - that would be it. Would he turn off her emotion inhibitor or kill/destroy her himself?

[Spike-X]

Well, it seems that the Cybermen will be returning which is neat. It'd be interesting to see what the reaction would be if Rose was captured and Upgraded, wouldn't it?

If anything could shatter the Doctor - that would be it. Would he turn off her emotion inhibitor or kill/destroy her himself?
You bastard.

[Matt]

You bastard.

Now are you saying that because you think it's a truly evil thought I had or because you think they'll actually do it? Maybe both? Heh.

[Spike-X]

Mostly the former.

I really hope they don't do it.

[king mob]

The Sun has been posting rumours based upon OG posts as fact for the better part of two years now, sometimes they're actually true. There does seem to be some truth in the current rumours as RTD has apparently mentioned in interviews that a character in the final episodes will carry on into the thrid series.

The Cybermen returning has been one of the worst kept secrets of the last two episodes, the Daleks (or A Dalek) is also due to return as well. The third season may see the return of the Ice Warriors as well which would be ace.

[tricksterpup]

Well, it seems that the Cybermen will be returning which is neat. It'd be interesting to see what the reaction would be if Rose was captured and Upgraded, wouldn't it?

If anything could shatter the Doctor - that would be it. Would he turn off her emotion inhibitor or kill/destroy her himself?
Actually, I would love to see the episode where the Doctor goes back to earth and explain to Jackie that Rose is what ever and he left Micky on an alternate earth.

[king mob]

Quite a brave episode tonight, didn't quite work in places (the Scooby Doo bit being a bit naff) but worked as a parody of a certain type of Who fans and yes, i can see why Ian Levine has got his knickers all in a twist.

Peter Kay can't act though and plays Peter Kay, though that was probably the point. Nice use of ELO, subtle hints for the aforementioned type of Who fans to get a life and the idea of someone getting blowjobs from a paving slab is a bit of demented genius.

However, expect fans to go totally apeshit, in fact, looking at OG right now, they are.

[Popgun]

Quite a brave episode tonight, didn't quite work in places (the Scooby Doo bit being a bit naff) but worked as a parody of a certain type of Who fans and yes, i can see why Ian Levine has got his knickers all in a twist.

Peter Kay can't act though and plays Peter Kay, though that was probably the point. Nice use of ELO, subtle hints for the aforementioned type of Who fans to get a life and the idea of someone getting blowjobs from a paving slab is a bit of demented genius.

However, expect fans to go totally apeshit, in fact, looking at OG right now, they are.

You'd expect Doctor Who fans to have a sense of humour about it all, wouldn't you? I thought it marvelous, myself - Mark Warren was immensely likeable (As was the whole L.I.N.D.A. roster), Jacquie's seduction technique was great fun and the interesting central conciet was executed with tremendous success, I felt.

Shame they couldn't squeeze a 'Dalek bread?!" joke in there, though :D

[king mob]

It's worth listening to the commentary with RTD basically admitting he wrote this to take the piss out of that certain type of Who fan mentioned earlier.

Top man.

[Jack]

It's worth listening to the commentary with RTD basically admitting he wrote this to take the piss out of that certain type of Who fan mentioned earlier.

Top man.
That lessens my enjoyment of the episode. Damn you.

[rick]

I really liked this weeks episode.

It was really kind of cool to see the Doctor from a completely different perspective. And it was also a stark dose of the reality of what really happens to the majority of people that the Doctor comes into contact with.

I am a fan of Mark Warren, having seen him on Hustle, but he really outdid himself here with able support by the rest of LINDA.

This was a sad and funny episode that pulled its emotions from the characters acting and reacting like real people. And most of all it was a cool look into the Whoniverse showing what the world must be like for those who stay behind.

[Matt]

Eh. While it was a fine enough side story, it was exactly that - a side story. And with the Dr Who seasons having such a small number of episodes then I don't think it was justifed making it to the final episode lineup. I actually grew quite bored during it and went away and did some other stuff.

I think it would have been better off being shortened and made into an anthology of side stories which could be strung together as one full episode.

The preview for next weeks episode didn't really fill me with confidence, unfortunately.

[king mob]

Eh. While it was a fine enough side story, it was exactly that - a side story. And with the Dr Who seasons having such a small number of episodes then I don't think it was justifed making it to the final episode lineup. I actually grew quite bored during it and went away and did some other stuff.

I think it would have been better off being shortened and made into an anthology of side stories which could be strung together as one full episode.

It could have went through one more rewrite to sort a few things out, especially the Absorbaloff scenes which were a bit thin and relied on Kay to, well be Peter Kay really. The rest of the episode was solid though and Davies did say ages ago this was an experiment with the format, for that he should be applauded, espicially when it went out in the middle of summer during a World Cup. Yes, there were things that went wrong, the Scooby Doo gag was poorly done, Kay felt a bit wasted and the ending was a bit all over the place.

I loved the comedy moments which did work though, the tribute to the Confessions Of films with Jackie leering over Elton, the paving slab sex gag, Mark Warren's performance, the sly dig to A Certain Type Of Who Fan that there's more to life than Who, the references to past episodes and remembering that Davies is actually really good at writing this type of comedy.

The beauty of the format of Who is that it can flip from SF to horror, to historical drama, to soap opera, so why not all out comedy?

The preview for next weeks episode didn't really fill me with confidence, unfortunately.


It looks very Sapphire and Steel which is no mean compliment.

[rick]

Eh. While it was a fine enough side story, it was exactly that - a side story. And with the Dr Who seasons having such a small number of episodes then I don't think it was justifed making it to the final episode lineup. I actually grew quite bored during it and went away and did some other stuff.

I think it would have been better off being shortened and made into an anthology of side stories which could be strung together as one full episode.

The preview for next weeks episode didn't really fill me with confidence, unfortunately.



I've got to say that I'm really actually rather surprised that you didn't like the episode all that much.

Don't get me wrong, with there being only a limited number of stories I can certainly see your point about avoiding "side story" episodes. But you have always come across to me as such a huge fan of the all of the minutia and side stories of the Whoniverse that I just figured that last nights would be exactly the type of episode you would have eaten up.

Although the tone was of course completely different, it reminded me of that Star Trek: The Next Generation episode where instead of looking at the main characters they did a whole episode showing what was going on with the folks below decks and how they reacted to the bigger story going on up at the bridge. By showing those folks and their lives, it gave a broader picture of not only how the “other” half lives, but it also helped show how the main characters are perceived by those who they encounter.

And I got that same vibe from last night Who.

It gave us a pretty good look into what it might be like to live in a London where one day you’ve got walking shop dummies to the next being involved in a full scale invasion, and how the normal person might deal with it.

And it also, like I said above, the story despite the laughs, gave of a pretty stark look at how coming into the Doctor’s world, even if it’s not the Doctors fault more often then not has some real and tragic consequences

Plus despite all of that serious subtext it was a very, very funny episode.

[Spike-X]

I really enjoyed this week's episode. Even RTD's mandatory gratuitous bum gag ("Bliss? Where are you?" "You don't want to know!") wasn't completely embarrassing. And the idea of having the monster of the week designed by a nine-year-old kid (see Doctor Who Confidential for details) was fantastic.

[Matt]

I think the same sort of story would have worked better if it had been done in a pseudo documentary style. For example, some freelance reporter who wants to figure out exactly what happened with the destruction of number 10 downing street and the big friggin' spaceship in the sky... He remember the PM pleading for the Doctor's help on national TV and goes off to discover just who this 'Doctor' is.

Which leads him to interviewing various people who have had contact with the Doctor - the PM, UNIT personnel, soldiers, cops, civillians, maybe Sarah Jane could have made a cameo reappearance for example.

I actually have a scene in my head where the reporter is walking up the gravel driveway of a large english country house speaking to the never-seen cameraman walking behind him. "This is the house of one Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart (retired) and though no records exist of him being associated with it, rumours circulate that he was once in charge of UNIT and he had a scientific advisor ... who became something of a legend ... called 'The Doctor'."
"You there! What do you want?"
"Mr Lethbridge-Stewart?"
"Yes."
"I'm Bob Jones from the Weekly Mirror, I'd like to speak to you about the Doctor."
"Doctor? My health is fine, may have a few gray hairs now but I'm as fit as ever!"
(Reporter holds out a photo of the 10th Doctor)
"This is the Doctor I mean, Mr Lethbridge-Stewart. I understand he used to work for you during your ... military days. Is this true."
"I can honestly tell you, young man, that I have never seen that face before in my life. Good day."

Just by doing a series of scenes like that, it'd be a far more effective delivery method of seeing the everyday repercussions of the Doctor's actions than the all-over-the-place jumble we ended up with. You'd also be able to do some new series recaps easily enough (trying to talk to the PM, for example) and link it back to the old series with ease.

[thehod]

However, expect fans to go totally apeshit, in fact, looking at OG right now, they are.

I was having a look in there over the weekend.

They're all going bloody nuts over there. It was like a bloodbath.

[Spike-X]

I tried registering, just to see what all the fuss is about, but I haven't been approved yet.

[thehod]

I tried registering, just to see what all the fuss is about, but I haven't been approved yet.

Yeah, it usually takes them 24 hours or so.

[Cephus]

Eh. While it was a fine enough side story, it was exactly that - a side story. And with the Dr Who seasons having such a small number of episodes then I don't think it was justifed making it to the final episode lineup. I actually grew quite bored during it and went away and did some other stuff.

I agree with you, I was less than impressed by it. The problem wasn't that it was a side story, it wasn't that it didn't have much of the Doctor, it was that it was downright stupid.

Yes, I can appreciate that the Absorbaloff or whatever it was was created by a 9-year old kid. It looked like it. Heck, the whole episode felt like it was written by a 9-year old kid too. The show could have had nothing whatsoever to do with Dr. Who. All of the parts with Jackie felt tacked on, there was really no point to them at all. The whole concept of the Absorbaloff was just moronic. A monster that absorbs people, but they just hang around as faces? And these faces can exert influence over the alien? And our heroine ends up as a face in a block of cement? All utterly childish.

I expect better out of Russel T. Davies.

[Cyke]

I have to say that I like this episode as well. The TNG example that was mentioned earlier is a great analogy, and I have to say that it was nice to see five conspiracy buffs/fanboys-and-fangirls begin to lose their obsessions and become a pretty swell social group. Each one had their talents that they played up in a very friendly way.

It was pretty sad to see some of their final fates, though, considering the chemistry and camaraderie they showed earlier. The fact that an alien found them and manipulated them says something about how unique and one-of-a-kind the team was.

However, I really don't think they would've let Kennedy take over the group that quickly, and the transition from social group to pure investigation group was a bit clunky, to the point where I couldn't exactly believe that LINDA would just seemlessly do and agree to do all that work.

[king mob]

I was having a look in there over the weekend.

They're all going bloody nuts over there. It was like a bloodbath.

It was hilarious as it was exactly the sort of thing Davies predicted and exactly the sort of thing he's said to hate about A Certain Type of Who Fan.

L & M was nowhere near perfect, in places it was painful. It's still way better than New Earth or the dreadful Cyberman two parter which also suffered from being woefully underwritten.

If you really want a giggle check out Ian Levine's forum, it's like the Somme in there.

[king mob]

I agree with you, I was less than impressed by it. The problem wasn't that it was a side story, it wasn't that it didn't have much of the Doctor, it was that it was downright stupid.

Yes, I can appreciate that the Absorbaloff or whatever it was was created by a 9-year old kid. It looked like it. Heck, the whole episode felt like it was written by a 9-year old kid too. The show could have had nothing whatsoever to do with Dr. Who. All of the parts with Jackie felt tacked on, there was really no point to them at all. The whole concept of the Absorbaloff was just moronic. A monster that absorbs people, but they just hang around as faces? And these faces can exert influence over the alien? And our heroine ends up as a face in a block of cement? All utterly childish.

I expect better out of Russel T. Davies.

Bear in mind it's a family show with a huge kids audience. My friends kids love the fart and bum gags and they love the fact they can sit there and watch it as a family. Few shows can really, honestly claim this these days.

As said, it was hugely flawed, some of it worked, some of it needed more work, some of it was dismal. What pains me is that Who Fans are slagging this show off for being too 'different' when many have been saying that they'd like to see different types of episode.

I hope they try more type of formats next year as well as the more traditional ones, it helps the show remain lively and not become stale. The fact Billie is leaving will definately help the show do this.

[Spike-X]

Who Fans are slagging this show off for being too 'different' when many have been saying that they'd like to see different types of episode.


"Yeah, but not different like this! Different like...the same as the other shows, but different!"

[tricksterpup]

I loved Love and Monsters. It was different and i was entertained. I don't expect every show to be like this but something like this every blue moon is fine with me.
I think they went with the Xena format. Giving us a Comedy before giving us Tragedy. Seriously, since Billie is leaving the show, its going to be tragic. She isn't going to go home and live a normal happy lovey dovey world again. I fear Rose is going to Die a horrid death and they wasnted to give us something light hearted before it happened.
Things I loved about the episode.
Camille Coduri just shinned for me in this episode. I thought she did a very good job.
Marc Warren who plays Elton Pope I find him to be an interesting actor. I would not complain if he is the New compaign for the Doctor. This could be a setup episode.
and you know I loved this little Scene, especially with Rose chasing it with a Bucket of what ever.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/gallery/s2_10gallery/800/monster_chop_doc.jpg

[Spike-X]

Yeah, it usually takes them 24 hours or so.
Great. My account's finally been validated, and I'm too drunk to start posting there.

[Web of Fear]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/news/cult/news/drwho/2006/06/20/33077.shtml

I think this is the first time an "incomplete" story has had a DVD release.

Be interesting to see what's done with the animated episodes, though there is a quick sneak peak.

[Cephus]

What pains me is that Who Fans are slagging this show off for being too 'different' when many have been saying that they'd like to see different types of episode.

It wasn't the concept that was the problem, it was the way that the concept was carried off that was. It could have been a good episode, I largely like who they got for actors, they just needed to make the story a bit less ridiculous.

[tricksterpup]

It wasn't the concept that was the problem, it was the way that the concept was carried off that was. It could have been a good episode, I largely like who they got for actors, they just needed to make the story a bit less ridiculous.
Oh I am sure we will get plenty of serious in the next few episodes.

[king mob]

"Yeah, but not different like this! Different like...the same as the other shows, but different!"


There's a section of Who fans who won't be happy unless the show is shot on videotape, has Mat Irvine model effects and features Sophie Aldred and Sylvester McCoy running down corridors chased by Fenric.

[king mob]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/news/cult/news/drwho/2006/06/20/33077.shtml

I think this is the first time an "incomplete" story has had a DVD release.

Be interesting to see what's done with the animated episodes, though there is a quick sneak peak.

The Lost in Time DVD set had a few incomplete stories.

[Web of Fear]

The Lost in Time DVD set had a few incomplete stories.

Indeed it does. I was just commenting this seems to be the first DVD release of an incomplete story on it's own, rather than as part of an overall larger package.

I'm looking forward to this DVD. The linking narration on the video is very brief, while the DVD sounds like it will include the complete soundtack of the missing episodes. Hopefully, the picture on the surviving episodes will be cleaned up as well.

[Matt]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/news/cult/news/drwho/2006/06/20/33077.shtml

I think this is the first time an "incomplete" story has had a DVD release.

Be interesting to see what's done with the animated episodes, though there is a quick sneak peak.

Hey, that's pretty neat! I like it!

[Cephus]

Oh I am sure we will get plenty of serious in the next few episodes.

I'm sure we will. I just haven't been too thrilled by the last couple of episodes, but I suppose it's been mid-season slump and I know they've got good things planned for the end of the season.

[Spike-X]

So...

This week's episode was a bit ordinary, wasn't it?

Some good character bits ("I was a dad once..." "You what?"), and the idea behind the villain of the week (which wasn't really a villain, as such) was interesting, but in the end it all became a bit of a muddled mess.

Next week's episode, however, looks very interesting!

[Jack]

Agreed. This was the weakest episode in quite a while, but next week's looks like great fun. The season plots of Torchwood and the Doctor/Rose's attitude coming to a head. Plus, the possible return of Mickey AND Captain Jack in one episode!

[Cyke]

Plus, the possible return of Mickey AND Captain Jack in one episode!

I'm really hoping that Jack hits on Mickey.

[Captain_Neutron]

I thought that the episode felt rather rushed and silly, especially towards the end ( a spaceship powered by love from the Olympic Torch? Good grief. :( )
It was all worth it for the TARDIS parking gag though. And I enjoyed Tennant, in spite of the material he was having to work with.

The last two episodes have been a rather unfortunate slump. This season has seen so many episodes now set in bloody London ( Cardiff ). I think it's 5 now, +2 for the finale and +1 if School Reunion counts. That's over half the series and with the exception of School Reunion, I've found them all disappointing, including the Cybermen ones. Consequently, all of the non London or 20/21st century UK ones I have enjoyed.
I hope that the season finale can escape the curse of London and hit it out of the park. They've certainly saved up enough budget for something special now and with two episodes to fill it hopefully won't be so rushed.

[Gaz]

The episode did get kinda "blah" towards the end with the torch and the singing. The idea is solid, a little girl's imagination and emotions are the problem/monster/whatever, but the ending just was too cute. The "dad" line and the final moments, including that awesome preview montage (V/O naration, Rose is gonna die, alternate reality, Torchwood, Cybermen, DALEKS!) were cool though.

[rick]

Fear Her was pretty good, but nothing special.

I liked last weeks episode with Mark Warren far better, and I suspect that I am really going to like next weeks show more as well.

I did like the line about the Doctor having once been a father. Of course seeing as how his very first companion was his Granddaughter that makes perfect sense.

But it was still cool to hear the Doctor say it.

[Ugoff]

Fear Her was pretty good, but nothing special.

I liked last weeks episode with Mark Warren far better, and I suspect that I am really going to like next weeks show more as well.

I did like the line about the Doctor having once been a father. Of course seeing as how his very first companion was his Granddaughter that makes perfect sense.

But it was still cool to hear the Doctor say it.


Are you guys watching advanced episodes of the show? Like downloading them or something? Everytime I come hear to chat about the show, people are posting about an episode I have no idea about. Well concerning the first season finale, it was good but sucked out my love for this show. I still think it's a good but I dont care about it anymore. I'll still watch but I wont mind if I miss an episode. I like Billie Piper but I dont care that she's leaving the role of Rose.

[king mob]

Are you guys watching advanced episodes of the show? Like downloading them or something?


A lot of us here are in the UK and see new episodes as they come out. Thats why it seems like you're missing out on stuff; it hasn't been shown outside the UK yet.


Anyhow, Daleks & Cybermen=Ooooooooooo!!!

[rick]

Are you guys watching advanced episodes of the show? Like downloading them or something? Everytime I come hear to chat about the show, people are posting about an episode I have no idea about. Well concerning the first season finale, it was good but sucked out my love for this show. I still think it's a good but I dont care about it anymore. I'll still watch but I wont mind if I miss an episode. I like Billie Piper but I dont care that she's leaving the role of Rose.


I watch the new ones by using my satellite controlled magic crystal radio set.

[Jack]

Are you guys watching advanced episodes of the show? Like downloading them or something? Everytime I come hear to chat about the show, people are posting about an episode I have no idea about. Well concerning the first season finale, it was good but sucked out my love for this show. I still think it's a good but I dont care about it anymore. I'll still watch but I wont mind if I miss an episode. I like Billie Piper but I dont care that she's leaving the role of Rose.
There's a separate thread for the US showings somewhere or other.

[Matt]

Fear HerI did like the line about the Doctor having once been a father. Of course seeing as how his very first companion was his Granddaughter that makes perfect sense.
But it was still cool to hear the Doctor say it.

Susan isn't, strictly biologically speaking, the Grand Daughter of the Doctor - she's the grand daughter of The Other. However, the 8th Doctor did adopt a girl called Miranda during his century long recuperation in 20th century Earth so he was technically her father.

[Donald M.]

Susan isn't, strictly biologically speaking, the Grand Daughter of the Doctor - she's the grand daughter of The Other. However, the 8th Doctor did adopt a girl called Miranda during his century long recuperation in 20th century Earth so he was technically her father.

Sure, but are the 8th Doctor novels really considered canon? I thought the Time War that destoryed Gallifrey being so different from Gallifrey's destruction in the novels indicated they weren't, but possibly some of it is canon and some of it isn't. Like how Lucas says that anything the Star Wars novels that isn't contradicted by the films (or the upcoming tv series, I suppose) is canon.

[boondoggle]

Susan isn't, strictly biologically speaking, the Grand Daughter of the Doctor - she's the grand daughter of The Other. However, the 8th Doctor did adopt a girl called Miranda during his century long recuperation in 20th century Earth so he was technically her father.

Has the Other/looms stuff ever been mentioned in the TV series or is in only in the books/audios? I know there was discussion in the Who FAQ about the canonicity of the non-TV stuff. What is the BBC's position? "It's ALL canon," or "It's canon until the TV contradicts it"?

I'm asking because I remember an interview with the actress who played Susan said that the old series never said Susan wasn't the Doctor's granddaughter.

[Ontir]

Wan't "the Other," the mystery being who was following the 4th Doctor around, heralding the regeneration from Tom Baker to Peter Davison?

[Matt]

The BBC has no official Who Canon policy so, from what I can gather, most fans just go with the 'star wars' model - the books and audios count unless they're directly contradicted by the TV series. It works for me.

The War in Heaven, which saw the Doctor being responsible for blowing up Gallifrey to stop time being taken over by Faction Paradox, still happened - but by the time of the last 8th Doctor novel ('The Gallifrey Chronicles') the secret to how to fully restore Gallifrey, The Matrix and the Time Lords had been found. It's assumed that Gallifrey went bye-bye again at a later date when the Daleks got all grouchy (which is hinted at in the novel; that for the good of the Universe's progression that Gallifrey would be destroyed - but it had to happen at the right time).

I'm asking because I remember an interview with the actress who played Susan said that the old series never said Susan wasn't the Doctor's granddaughter.

Oh, she still is the Doctor's grand-daughter - just not directly biologically. Sort of. She's from Gallifrey's past and the Doctor is the reloomed genetic reincarnation (trust me, it makes more sense in the books) of The Other who was her biological grandfather.

Wan't "the Other," the mystery being who was following the 4th Doctor around, heralding the regeneration from Tom Baker to Peter Davison?
Nah, that was just a weird physical manifestation of the sum of the Doctor's future incarnations - who popped up to let the Doctor know that he'd soon croak and to make sure stuff happened like it should. Time Lord minds are weird like that; their future lives are alive and pretty much sentient in the current Doctor's mind. Past lives as well.

The Other is long dead, he threw himself into Gallifrey's master genetic loom in frustration over Rassilon's tyrannical behaviour.

[drwho]

What was the point of the phrase Bad Wolf? I mean if chipette Rose sent the word back in time what type of message were they supposed to get from that? Was a cool idea just think its confusing with how it was explained.

[Matt]

Well now, this episode was a bit of a mess, wasn't it? It started off with an acceptable premise for sure but it was clear what the mood of the episode would be as soon as they perfomed the rather unnecessary TARDIS door scene. The idea behind the alien wasn't bad, certainly beats the endless 'bumpy forehead' style aliens you find in certain other series, but the execution of the story was rather poor. The acting performances by the old woman, the road worker and the child simply weren't very good at all.

The highlight of the episode was actually the preview for the two parter, starting next week, which is set to see season 28/2 off. Torchwood, Cybermen, Hopefully Rose's death … looks like it might be quite interesting.

[Spike-X]

Are you guys watching advanced episodes of the show? Like downloading them or something?

I watch the new ones by using Rick's satellite controlled magic crystal radio set.

(in other words, I download them. Screw waiting 3-4 months for them to be shown on Australian TV!)

[Matt]

Oh, I should add that the ending of the episode (with the torch) was ... well, unbelievably corny and cheesey. It was literally cringe inducing. Gah.

[Spike-X]

It was pretty bloody awful, wasn't it?

[Spike-X]

Hopefully Rose's death …

"Hopefully"? That's a tad harsh!

And I liked the TARDIS door scene. I wouldn't like to see something like that too often, but it was good for a larf.

[Matt]

Yes, 'hopefully'. I want to see Rose permanently (no transmats, no falling down holes to land safely) snuff it.

The character of Rose has become, instead of the almost apathetic english girl she started out as, an annoying self righteous little sod who doesn't seem to care about anyone except herself and the Doctor.

Maybe Rose's death will bring forth a companion who has some maturity, which really would be nice to see.

[Kid Omega]

Yes, 'hopefully'. I want to see Rose permanently (no transmats, no falling down holes to land safely) snuff it.

The character of Rose has become, instead of the almost apathetic english girl she started out as, an annoying self righteous little sod who doesn't seem to care about anyone except herself and the Doctor.

Maybe Rose's death will bring forth a companion who has some maturity, which really would be nice to see.


I know it won't happen, but I wouldn't mind seeing Sarah Jane come back.

(btw, matt, I can't find the Who FAQ.... is the Doctor still supposed to be half-human, or was that quickly ignored/forgotten?)

[tricksterpup]

Oh, I should add that the ending of the episode (with the torch) was ... well, unbelievably corny and cheesey. It was literally cringe inducing. Gah.
but its Doctor Who, thats to be expected. I kinda liked those cheesy parts.

[Cephus]

Oh, I should add that the ending of the episode (with the torch) was ... well, unbelievably corny and cheesey. It was literally cringe inducing. Gah.

Yeah, it was utter crap. It was bad enough having the torch being a symbol of love, but having the Doctor picking up the torch and lighting the Olympic flame was just idiotic.

This is two (well, had some problems with the Satan Pit, but it was at least watchable) episodes in a row that have been far below what I expect from the modern Dr. Who.

And I agree with you, I want to see Rose with a bullet hole in her head. She started out alright, but I really can't stand where they've gone with her and I want her, her mother, and everyone else remotely connected to her, gone. Period. Forever.

[king mob]

It was pretty bloody awful, wasn't it?


It was alright, a nice bit of contractual obligation (the BBC have been asked to fit in as many mentions of the 2012 Olympics in their shows as possible) and a nice Sapphire & Steel feel. Nothing too special though.

Rose leaving will be a shame. It's her character more than the Doctor which has helped revamp the show and introduce a new generation of viewers. However the show needs to move on and the Rose character doesn't work as well with Tennant's Doctor as it did with Eccleston's. Hopefully they'll give her a happy ending (some hints in the trailers seem to hint this) and we can move on with a new companion.

[Ontir]

Yes, 'hopefully'. I want to see Rose permanently (no transmats, no falling down holes to land safely) snuff it.

The character of Rose has become, instead of the almost apathetic english girl she started out as, an annoying self righteous little sod who doesn't seem to care about anyone except herself and the Doctor.

Maybe Rose's death will bring forth a companion who has some maturity, which really would be nice to see.

I'm only up to episode 8 of season 2, but I quite like Rose. She showed a great deal of concern for the boy and his @$$hole father in the ep with the killer TVs, "You were clever enough to save the world, don't stop there." I thought that was rather moving. She could've chimed in with the "good riddance to bad rubbish" sentiment, but instead, she turned it around, and may have helped to transform the father into someone useful.

[Haydn C]

The character of Rose has become, instead of the almost apathetic english girl she started out as, an annoying self righteous little sod who doesn't seem to care about anyone except herself and the Doctor.

That seems like the whole theme of the series to me, the Doctor and Rose taking everything much to lightly and having to much fun while others suffer the consequences.
Didn't Queen Victoria say something along those line in the werewolf episode?

[tricksterpup]

It was alright, a nice bit of contractual obligation (the BBC have been asked to fit in as many mentions of the 2012 Olympics in their shows as possible) and a nice Sapphire & Steel feel. Nothing too special though.

Rose leaving will be a shame. It's her character more than the Doctor which has helped revamp the show and introduce a new generation of viewers. However the show needs to move on and the Rose character doesn't work as well with Tennant's Doctor as it did with Eccleston's. Hopefully they'll give her a happy ending (some hints in the trailers seem to hint this) and we can move on with a new companion.

I think you are right King, I have a feeling that Rose will not die but leave under her own reasons. She has been acting like the typical jealous Girlfriend most of this season. Fear Her was another Prime example. I loved her reaction of finding out that the Doctor is a father. Will she leave cause he has to many secrets? Or will she leave the same as Tegan did, she just can not handle this any more.



Me personally, and I guess I am one of the few advocates of this past episodes. I am enjoying them, they are not as good as some of the top episodes of last season and this but still I am entertained and that is all that matters. I'm in my 40's and have been enjoying Doctor Who for about 30 years, ever since John Pertwee shows aired in the US. Cheesy is Doctor Who, and I am having fun. Plus, would you rather have few episodes like this every once or twice a season or no Doctor who?

[Cyke]

That seems like the whole theme of the series to me, the Doctor and Rose taking everything much to lightly and having to much fun while others suffer the consequences.
Didn't Queen Victoria say something along those line in the werewolf episode?

Oh, great connection there. I hadn't thought about it as a theme for the whole season.

To piggy-back on your point, the recent Satan two-parter is a pretty good example of your post. At the beginning of the story, we see the Doctor and Rose giggling and laughing as they leave the TARDIS, only for things to get exponentially worse and worse for them and the crew as the story went on.

On a totally unrelated note:

Lately, whenever I watch an Eccleston rerun, whenever the Doctor squats down and inspects something by squinting and closely looking at something, I get a weird Ed O'Neill vibe. That's right, Al Bundy as The Doctor.

I think it's the shape of his nose, the overall features of his face, and that short head-hugging buzz cut that Eccleston has.

[rick]

Personally I for one rather like Rose.

In fact I consider her one of the best companions that the Doctor has ever had.

I am going to really miss her when she’s gone.

As for Fear Her, I admit that it was only a so-so episode, but man oh man do I disagree with the folks who didn’t like Love & Monsters.

That episode was both funny and sad, and it really gave you some reasons to care about the members of LINDA. The story itself might not have had very much of the Doctor and Rose in it, but it really does fit in very well with the seasons whole subplot dealing with the destruction and death that the Doctor almost always leaves in his wake.

And besides, Mark Warren and the rest of LINDA just did a wonderful job in their parts, the absorbing monster was completely goofy, but still a very nasty piece of work, and Camille Coduri really got to show both some fine comedic moments and some real pathos too.

With the exception of School Reunion, I pretty much feel that Love & Monsters was the best episode of the season.

[Spike-X]

With the exception of School Reunion, I pretty much feel that Love & Monsters was the best episode of the season.

While I wouldn't go that far (The Girl In The Fireplace and School Reunion are equal favourites for me), I did like Love And Monsters for the most part. There were some parts that didn't work too well for me - Russell Davies tries too hard with the comedy for my liking - but overall, as an experiment with a different kind of episode, I thought it worked quite well.

[tricksterpup]

While I wouldn't go that far (The Girl In The Fireplace and School Reunion are equal favourites for me), I did like Love And Monsters for the most part. There were some parts that didn't work too well for me - Russell Davies tries too hard with the comedy for my liking - but overall, as an experiment with a different kind of episode, I thought it worked quite well.
I think a possiblity is that they are trying to find this season's voice. I think part of it is humor unlike last season which didn't have any. I think next season, will be much better. I am very curious about Torchwood though. I wonder if this last few episodes will setup the series?

[Ontir]

I agree with Rick. Rose is perhaps the first companion since Nyssa to be anywhere near an equal of the Doctor's. She's a modern woman, moreso than anyone except Leela, perhaps, in that she doesn't just wait for the Doctor to tell her what needs to be done, or explain it to her. She'll go sort it out on her own, which makes her far more useful as a companion.