Doctor Who *spoilers*

[king mob]

Bill Bailey? Where did you hear this?

OK, found a pic of Bailey and NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

...and I am UNANIMOUS in this!

He was considered at one point along with Alan Davis (the comedian, not the artist) during the pre-RTD revamp the BBC tried to get off the ground. It'd be a brave choice, especially as he isn't the best of actors, but something a bit different after Tennant would be fun.

[Tobias March]

Bill Bailey? Where did you hear this?

OK, found a pic of Bailey and NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

...and I am UNANIMOUS in this!

Bailey is full of win (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EDuK46ZqFM&feature=related).

[tony ingram]

There's no reason to believe the War Chief wouldn't have regenerated. Those weapons didn't seem to be of the "Kill a Time Lord" quality. Force a regeneration, yes, kill utterly? I don't think so. That's actually the one thing that annoyed the hell out of me with "the Deadly Assassin." Several Time Lords are killed and yes, the Master is behind it, if anyone can do one of them in, it's going to be him, but they don't ever address it. I'd love to see something where a Time Lord gets shot and as the battle races on, regenerates and gets back up!

I watched steadily and faithfully from Pertwee through the beginning of Sylvester McCoy, then sporadically to the end. The TV Movie, and every ep of the new series. Yeah, the pretty much continued on and on and on, but the gaps always did interest me.

I'm still a stickler that what's onscreen is in and what's elsewhere is out, until those who put it on, decide it's in.

I disagree. As far as I'm concerned, if it's licensed, it's canon-and since Russell T Davies has referenced elements from the books on screen, I'd guess he feels the same way. For the record, the novel I mentioned established that the War Chief did indeed regenerate after being shot on screen, but the regeneration failed and left him malformed. He died at the end of the book, and was not connected to the Master in any way. The Time Meddler also reappeared, in the novel 'No Future', in which we learned his real name-Mortimus.

[ChrisIII]

^The new series does owe a huge debt to the audios and novels, as many of the writers did come from the limbo years. However, continuity wise there are some contradictions. As many of the new series is inspired by the novels, many of the same events seem to happen twice-Gallifrey's destruction, for one, the events of Human Nature for another. However, the new series doesn't seem to have a stable timeline, really-nobody in "Dalek" seemed aware of the events of "Doomsday" or "Stolen Earth/Journey's End"-and then there's the whole Harriet Jones thing which the Doctor altered (and could've led to the rise of The master/Saxon). So these novels could've taken place, in a sense, but time has been altered.


The novels do have a sort of backstory for the Master-that he was Koscei(Although that might have been another alias) and his first steps toward becoming the Master are depicted in the novel "The Dark Path." This is sort of an alternate origin to the new series, which had the whole drums thing. Of course there's the fan theory that the "drums" only apply to the ressurected Master incarnations..

[tony ingram]

^The new series does owe a huge debt to the audios and novels, as many of the writers did come from the limbo years. However, continuity wise there are some contradictions. As many of the new series is inspired by the novels, many of the same events seem to happen twice-Gallifrey's destruction, for one, the events of Human Nature for another. However, the new series doesn't seem to have a stable timeline, really-nobody in "Dalek" seemed aware of the events of "Doomsday" or "Stolen Earth/Journey's End"-and then there's the whole Harriet Jones thing which the Doctor altered (and could've led to the rise of The master/Saxon). So these novels could've taken place, in a sense, but time has been altered. actually, aside from Human Nature there's nothing in the new series that contradicts the alternative media: it was implied in the books that Gallifrey could be restored following its original destruction, so I guess that's what happened. Even the apparent contradiction between Sound of Drums and Lungbarrow (with their supposedly conflicting views on Time LLOrd reproduction) can be explained away quite easily if we assume both methods are used and Lungbarrow told only part of the story (possibly, the Looms were used only by the high caste Time Lords in the Citadel, while common Gallifreyans reproduced normally-meaning the Master was not from an aristocratic family).


The novels do have a sort of backstory for the Master-that he was Koscei(Although that might have been another alias) and his first steps toward becoming the Master are depicted in the novel "The Dark Path." This is sort of an alternate origin to the new series, which had the whole drums thing. Of course there's the fan theory that the "drums" only apply to the ressurected Master incarnations..
Again, no contradiction. It may be that the Master's psychosis was formed when he looked into the Untempered Schism but took centuries to develop; the Delgado Master seemed quite sane, after all, while the Ainley version was clearly barking mad.

[mattx110]

He was considered at one point along with Alan Davis (the comedian, not the artist) during the pre-RTD revamp the BBC tried to get off the ground. It'd be a brave choice, especially as he isn't the best of actors, but something a bit different after Tennant would be fun.
I think his impishness and 4th wall breaking gestures would make him enough fun, plus, it'd be so weird to see him act all flustered and actually have things happening the way the Doctor can make things happen.


The drums are new, and it seems like something the Master would have brought up by now, but with all the reconciliation themery going on, maybe it makes sense he'd never talk about it until in a new body after the trauma of a time war and being locked in a human body before that. Maybe every other incarnation didn't even hear the silly drums, and only the first, third and 9th or something.

[Stressfactor]

Holy Hell I found the Doctor Who novel MOTHERLOAD!!!! A Half-Price bookstore near me had EVERTHING -- I swear to God... VIrgin NA's, Virgin MA's even some of the Target books!

Unfortunately I was forced into a Lady or the Tiger-like decision.... Buy a few "Doctor Who" novels or buy the "The Avengers '63 set 4" on DVD.

I must confess... I went for the Avengers.... It's a John Steed thing... you wouldn't understand. :tongue:

[Ontir]

I disagree. As far as I'm concerned, if it's licensed, it's canon-and since Russell T Davies has referenced elements from the books on screen, I'd guess he feels the same way. For the record, the novel I mentioned established that the War Chief did indeed regenerate after being shot on screen, but the regeneration failed and left him malformed. He died at the end of the book, and was not connected to the Master in any way. The Time Meddler also reappeared, in the novel 'No Future', in which we learned his real name-Mortimus.

Not necessarily. I think it's more likely a "pick and choose" approach on Davies' part. If he wants to bring in elements he's free to do so, but he's not going to be locked into off-screen continuity. Hell, they've contradicted on-screen continuity if it interfered with the story they wanted to tell. They've also said that there can't be a contradiction because the Doctor changes time, so if it's different now, that's because of what the Doctor did. There's absolutely no reason the War Chief can't be the Master.

I think it would be interesting to cast Richard E. Grant as a younger version of the Hartnell Doctor and show us a bit of the Doctor's early and generally mysterious life. Maybe meet the child that produced his grand-daughter Susan.

[mattx110]

Not necessarily. I think it's more likely a "pick and choose" approach on Davies' part. If he wants to bring in elements he's free to do so, but he's not going to be locked into off-screen continuity. Hell, they've contradicted on-screen continuity if it interfered with the story they wanted to tell. They've also said that there can't be a contradiction because the Doctor changes time, so if it's different now, that's because of what the Doctor did. There's absolutely no reason the War Chief can't be the Master.

I think it would be interesting to cast Richard E. Grant as a younger version of the Hartnell Doctor and show us a bit of the Doctor's early and generally mysterious life. Maybe meet the child that produced his grand-daughter Susan.
Isn't he a bit tall and bleeding handsome?

[Ontir]

People shrink as they age. He's also not that tall. I've spoken to him in person. I always think of him as very British (although he's from Swaziland), and neither overly handsome or ugly. He is a solid actor who could invoke a younger version of Hartnell's character and bring him back to life. If the Doctor is going to continue and time-travel allows him to meet with other Doctors, they're going to have to bring in others to portray his earlier selves. That guy from "Dead Ringers" I think it's called is fantastic as the Tom Baker Doctor.

[tony ingram]

Not necessarily. I think it's more likely a "pick and choose" approach on Davies' part. If he wants to bring in elements he's free to do so, but he's not going to be locked into off-screen continuity. Hell, they've contradicted on-screen continuity if it interfered with the story they wanted to tell. They've also said that there can't be a contradiction because the Doctor changes time, so if it's different now, that's because of what the Doctor did. There's absolutely no reason the War Chief can't be the Master. changing time, changing the course of events, wouldn't change the guy's identity. Sorry, the War Chief is not the Master. Never was, never will be, whether you accept the books or not. Whether in War Games or Exodus, one way or another he's dead.

I think it would be interesting to cast Richard E. Grant as a younger version of the Hartnell Doctor and show us a bit of the Doctor's early and generally mysterious life. Maybe meet the child that produced his grand-daughter Susan. I think showing us a pre-1963 Doctor would totally destroy the mystery and charm of the series. We don't need to know what he was like back then.

[tony ingram]

Not necessarily. I think it's more likely a "pick and choose" approach on Davies' part. If he wants to bring in elements he's free to do so, but he's not going to be locked into off-screen continuity. Hell, they've contradicted on-screen continuity if it interfered with the story they wanted to tell. They've also said that there can't be a contradiction because the Doctor changes time, so if it's different now, that's because of what the Doctor did. There's absolutely no reason the War Chief can't be the Master. changing time, changing the course of events, wouldn't change the guy's identity. Sorry, the War Chief is not the Master. Never was, never will be, whether you accept the books or not. Whether in War Games or Exodus, one way or another he's dead.

I think it would be interesting to cast Richard E. Grant as a younger version of the Hartnell Doctor and show us a bit of the Doctor's early and generally mysterious life. Maybe meet the child that produced his grand-daughter Susan. I think showing us a pre-1963 Doctor would totally destroy the mystery and charm of the series. We don't need to know what he was like back then.

[marshal99]

He was considered at one point along with Alan Davis (the comedian, not the artist) during the pre-RTD revamp the BBC tried to get off the ground. It'd be a brave choice, especially as he isn't the best of actors, but something a bit different after Tennant would be fun.


Don't know this Bill Bailey guy but man , googled him and god no ! Changing from a young dashing handsome dude in Tennant to a fat old balding guy who looks like a drunk perp , he looks like someone even donna wouldn't touch. :biggrin:

Can you imagine Rose appearing for a visit and looking at that incarnation , she'll throw up and flee back to her parallel world in terror.

[Stressfactor]

You DO know the Doctor hasn't always been good looking, right?

I will say, however, that the Doctor HAS always had a bit more hair than that...

[Ontir]

changing time, changing the course of events, wouldn't change the guy's identity. Sorry, the War Chief is not the Master. Never was, never will be, whether you accept the books or not. Whether in War Games or Exodus, one way or another he's dead.
I think showing us a pre-1963 Doctor would totally destroy the mystery and charm of the series. We don't need to know what he was like back then.

Of course changing time can change his identity (and I can point out any number of comics that can depict just that). Especially if that identity hasn't been established on-screen. Looking at the string of events from "the War Games" on, it surely looks like the writers of the show intended the Master to be the War Chief.

You can show the pre-1963 Doctor, give a few hints here and there, and still not kill the mystery. With all we've seen of the Time Lords, they're still enigmatic. It would work.

[Ontir]

Don't know this Bill Bailey guy but man , googled him and god no ! Changing from a young dashing handsome dude in Tennant to a fat old balding guy who looks like a drunk perp , he looks like someone even donna wouldn't touch. :biggrin:

Can you imagine Rose appearing for a visit and looking at that incarnation , she'll throw up and flee back to her parallel world in terror.

That was my first thought, but with the invocation of Troughton I got thinking about it. I can see the Doctor coming out of the regeneration, looking in a mirror and saying, "Blimey! This is the worst of the bunch! You know this is just the sort of thing that happened to the Master. I must be running out of steam..."

[rick]

You DO know the Doctor hasn't always been good looking, right?

I will say, however, that the Doctor HAS always had a bit more hair than that...


It's the 21st century and the era of the unsexy Doctor is in the distant past.

[mattx110]

Don't know this Bill Bailey guy but man , googled him and god no ! Changing from a young dashing handsome dude in Tennant to a fat old balding guy who looks like a drunk perp , he looks like someone even donna wouldn't touch. :biggrin:

Can you imagine Rose appearing for a visit and looking at that incarnation , she'll throw up and flee back to her parallel world in terror.Tennant is nearly 40. He does look young for his age... and apparently, he can have any woman under 30 he wants... And Bailey isn't that out of shape, and I wouldn't think of him as perp-like. It's more the fact that he's hilarious, intelligent and talented. Plus, we've had doctors hide their hairl with hats before (McCoy, we know you're flattening those curly locks), would it be that hard to buy Bailey a few stylish hats? He also normally dresses pretty nice when not in t-shirts.

You DO know the Doctor hasn't always been good looking, right?

I will say, however, that the Doctor HAS always had a bit more hair than that...Hey, he has more hair, it's just not all directly on the top of his head. Was Hartnell's hairline that forward on his head?

It's the 21st century and the era of the unsexy Doctor is in the distant past. Like Eccleston was so hot, with his whiny Northern accent, and his manly widow's peak... damnit.

[marshal99]

Eccleston is still a damn sight better than this Bailey chap.

Moving from Tennant to Bailey is akin to from eating a buffet lunch to eating dogfood.

[mattx110]

Eccleston is still a damn sight better than this Bailey chap.

Moving from Tennant to Bailey is akin to from eating a buffet lunch to eating dogfood.
Doctor who isn't to show you pretty people posing.

Except for that time they had a pop-singing bleach-blonde...

Wait, since when were buffets not basically dogfood? Do you have decent buffets more than anywhere else in the entire known world where you are? That's a terribly contradictory simile.

[Stressfactor]

Well someone here posted a link to an old interview with Moffat and he stated then that he felt the Doctor should be played by someone at least over 40. So if Moffat gets to pick a new Doc fans could see a slightly older actor in the role. Of course there are a lot of actors over 40 who are still smokin' hot.

I think I'd like to see a Doctor with a bit darker, more cynical sense of humor. I know a lot of people didn't like Richard Grant's performance in "Scream of the Shalka" but there were still a lot of good lines in that story and I honestly liked that portrayal of the Doctor as someone who had grown cynical about the universe and wasn't afraid to treat it all like some sort of dark sarcasm.

[marshal99]

No problem with older , more distinguished doctor , just not that old hippie bailey.

Wot ! Me as the doctor ?
http://i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2007/05/billbaileyL_243x251.jpg

To be honest , after tennant , anyone else will be a letdown. I imagine Tennant does bring in his share of female fans to the program. Can you imagine rose and Bailey together ? Ugh !

[mattx110]

No problem with older , more distinguished doctor , just not that old hippie bailey.

Wot ! Me as the doctor ?
http://i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2007/05/billbaileyL_243x251.jpg

To be honest , after tennant , anyone else will be a letdown. I imagine Tennant does bring in his share of female fans to the program. Can you imagine rose and Bailey together ? Ugh !
Rose is stuck in another universe with her own Tennant. Most Doctor Who fans are opposed to the Doc getting his willy off with a 19 year old east london tart anyway.

[marshal99]

Rose is stuck in another universe with her own Tennant. Most Doctor Who fans are opposed to the Doc getting his willy off with a 19 year old east london tart anyway.

No sex in doctor who , it's a kid's show after all. ;)
I'm saying that if Tennant hasn't been the ten doctor but bailey instead , how weird would it be ?

[mattx110]

No sex in doctor who , it's a kid's show after all. ;)
I'm saying that if Tennant hasn't been the ten doctor but bailey instead , how weird would it be ?
So... the risk is what? If Bill Bailey had an actual real time machine and went back to be the Doctor instead of Tennant?

[Stressfactor]

So... the risk is what? If Bill Bailey had an actual real time machine and went back to be the Doctor instead of Tennant?

I don't know why but this cracked me up.

Eh, been watching "Inferno" though -- which gets pretty damn dark for "Children's Telly" in the 1970's -- so I was probably looking for a laugh.

If nothing else -- all of these discussions have been introducing me to British actors and comedians I've never heard of before.

But if someone wanted a Do-dee-do-do-do-dee-do-do (Twilight Zone theme) suggestion for the Doctor -- Sean Pertwee. Boy did that apple not fall far from the tree. Looks a lot like his dad and even sounds a lot like him too.

[mattx110]

I don't know why but this cracked me up.

Eh, been watching "Inferno" though -- which gets pretty damn dark for "Children's Telly" in the 1970's -- so I was probably looking for a laugh.

If nothing else -- all of these discussions have been introducing me to British actors and comedians I've never heard of before.

But if someone wanted a Do-dee-do-do-do-dee-do-do (Twilight Zone theme) suggestion for the Doctor -- Sean Pertwee. Boy did that apple not fall far from the tree. Looks a lot like his dad and even sounds a lot like him too.
Hey, best part of Equilibrium! The movie that took every scifi theme known to man, and did nothing with them, and then killed any subtlty it almost had, and made Angus McFayden play a guy who is evil because he's evil so he does evil things. Ok, the little boy who playe the son was good too.

[Ontir]

http://i.thisislondon.co.uk/i/pix/2007/05/billbaileyL_243x251.jpg

You know, if you shaved him, cut his hair, and dressed him like a proper English banker he'd be very Doctor-like!

[king mob]

No sex in doctor who , it's a kid's show after all. ;)

It's more of a family programme than a kid's programme since it returned.


I'm saying that if Tennant hasn't been the ten doctor but bailey instead , how weird would it be ?

Well seeing as it was never really going to happen & was at best a vague rumour within the BBC when they were trying to relaunch Who in 2000 or so.

[tony ingram]

Don't know this Bill Bailey guy but man , googled him and god no ! Changing from a young dashing handsome dude in Tennant to a fat old balding guy who looks like a drunk perp , he looks like someone even donna wouldn't touch. :biggrin:

Can you imagine Rose appearing for a visit and looking at that incarnation , she'll throw up and flee back to her parallel world in terror.

"A drunken perp". What a charming individual you are. To clarify, Bill Bailey is a talented actor and comedian, very popular in the UK, who would probably have just the right level of eccentricity for the Doctor. The character is not (or never was, prior to Tennant) a romantic lead, it doesn't matter whether he's good looking or not. Rose would doubtless not have found Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, McCoy or either of the Bakers attractive, either, but they were still all a damn sight better than Tennant.

[tony ingram]

Don't know this Bill Bailey guy but man , googled him and god no ! Changing from a young dashing handsome dude in Tennant to a fat old balding guy who looks like a drunk perp , he looks like someone even donna wouldn't touch. :biggrin:

Can you imagine Rose appearing for a visit and looking at that incarnation , she'll throw up and flee back to her parallel world in terror.

"A drunken perp". What a charming individual you are. To clarify, Bill Bailey is a talented actor and comedian, very popular in the UK, who would probably have just the right level of eccentricity for the Doctor. The character is not (or never was, prior to Tennant) a romantic lead, it doesn't matter whether he's good looking or not. Rose would doubtless not have found Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, McCoy or either of the Bakers attractive, either, but they were still all a damn sight better than Tennant.

[tony ingram]

Of course changing time can change his identity (and I can point out any number of comics that can depict just that). Especially if that identity hasn't been established on-screen. Looking at the string of events from "the War Games" on, it surely looks like the writers of the show intended the Master to be the War Chief. Not to me. There's no indication that any writer after the War Games had even heard of the War Chief, until the Virgin novels. He's certainly never mentioned. What's more, the Master and the Doctor were supposedly at the academy together; the War Chief clearly has never met him before.I don't see where you're getting this from.

You can show the pre-1963 Doctor, give a few hints here and there, and still not kill the mystery. With all we've seen of the Time Lords, they're still enigmatic. It would work.
No, it really, really wouldn't. And what would be the point? It hasn't been done in 45 years, why do it now?

[tony ingram]

Of course changing time can change his identity (and I can point out any number of comics that can depict just that). Especially if that identity hasn't been established on-screen. Looking at the string of events from "the War Games" on, it surely looks like the writers of the show intended the Master to be the War Chief. No. No writer after the War Games even mentions the War Chief until the Virgin novels. There's no indication they've ever even heard of him. The Master, we're told, was at school with the Doctor. The War Chief has clearly never met him before. Beyond the fact that they both have facial hair, there is nothing to connect them. They are not, and never were, meant to be the same man.

You can show the pre-1963 Doctor, give a few hints here and there, and still not kill the mystery. With all we've seen of the Time Lords, they're still enigmatic. It would work.No, it really, really wouldn't. There's a reason they haven't done it in 45 years. Why do it now? Also, recasting the earlier Doctors would be seen as massively disrespectful by most people who remembered the old ones.

[tony ingram]

Sorry, double post-the first one vanished, then mysteriously reappeared...

[Deathstroke]

Rose is stuck in another universe with her own Tennant. Most Doctor Who fans are opposed to the Doc getting his willy off with a 19 year old east london tart anyway.


I think it's lovely. A love story with a happy ending.

[rick]

"A drunken perp". What a charming individual you are. To clarify, Bill Bailey is a talented actor and comedian, very popular in the UK, who would probably have just the right level of eccentricity for the Doctor. The character is not (or never was, prior to Tennant) a romantic lead, it doesn't matter whether he's good looking or not. Rose would doubtless not have found Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, McCoy or either of the Bakers attractive, either, but they were still all a damn sight better than Tennant.


Bailey might be quite talented, but yeah, that certainly is the drunken perp look he is using.

As for Tennant, he is certainly right up there with any of the classic Doctors, plus he has the advantage of a much bigger budget.

[rick]

Also, recasting the earlier Doctors would be seen as massively disrespectful by most people who remembered the old ones.


And yet Hartnell was already recast for the Five Doctors during the series original run.

Funny that didn't come across as disrespectful.

[Stressfactor]

And yet Hartnell was already recast for the Five Doctors during the series original run.

Funny that didn't come across as disrespectful.

Actually, it did to some... and still does. However, supposedly they asked Hartnell's widow before doing it and she gave her approval.

I just think it's a bit difficult to ask another actor to tailor their acting style to try to match another person's performance. It's one thing when you have an actor playing a historical figure -- like Nixon or JFK -- but when you ask an actor to play a fictional character like another actor played that fictional character it's a bit disrespectful to the incoming actor.

In interview after interview before he passed away Patrick Troughton said that, when offered the role of the Doctor after Hartnell, he told the producers that he would not play the role like Hartnell had because he had too much respect for Hartnell to do that. That turned out to be okay, though, because the producers were looking for a change.

All that being said... I don't think it's a good idea to go back and explore the Doctor's history -- the character should have SOME mystery after all -- BUT if ever there WERE a compelling reason to show a young First Doctor I wouldn't have a problem with a different actor in the role since they could basically play the First Doctor as they saw fit since everyone changes as they grow older. I don't talk and act the same way at 34 that I did at 15 so why should the Doctor talk and act at 90 the same way he spoke and acted when he was over 300 (this is presuming that the Second Doctor was telling the truth when he told Jamie and Victoria that he was 450 years old)?

[tony ingram]

I think it's lovely. A love story with a happy ending.

About a centuries old alien (formerly played by William Hartnell at the age of 60, remember) and a teenage girl. Yeah, that's just lovely...:rolleyes:

[Deathstroke]

About a centuries old alien (formerly played by William Hartnell at the age of 60, remember) and a teenage girl. Yeah, that's just lovely...:rolleyes:

Oh please, it's not like Bob Costas hitting on a Chinese female gymnast.

He may be centuries old but looks 35 and it's not like he's seeking her out or anything. It just happened and last time I checked Rose was an adult and responsible for her own actions.

The amount of bitching that goes on in this thread by purported fans of Doctor Who makes me question if you like the show or just like bitching about every damn thing.

[king mob]

Actually, it did to some... and still does. However, supposedly they asked Hartnell's widow before doing it and she gave her approval.

She did but it did annoy people; one of my employers at the time hated it and spend an entire night in the pub moaning about it.

The original idea from Robert Holmes was to have the first Doctor recast & end up being an evil robot therefore explaining why he never looked like Hartnell. That would have been fun but I think they did as good a job as possible with The Five Doctors.

All that being said... I don't think it's a good idea to go back and explore the Doctor's history -- the character should have SOME mystery after all

Indeed. It's the same as knowing exactly what Wolverine's origin is. It makes the character dull & somewhat dreary so keeping the story mysterious while dropping the odd sneaky hint is perfect for Who.

I don't understand this desire from fans to know everything about a character. It's just continuity porn.

[king mob]

The amount of bitching that goes on in this thread by purported fans of Doctor Who makes me question if you like the show or just like bitching about every damn thing.

I'd say everyone in this thread is a fan, but what is often seen as 'bitching' is really just criticism of the programme. Something that's virtually impossible on Outpost Gallifrey & that's annoying to say the least.

I love Who, I have done since I first saw it as a kid in 1972, but I know it's got it's problems & I can't just like something for the sake of liking it, that's just daft & that's what one sees on OG all the bloody time.

Who's probably never been as popular as it is now & that's brilliant that this wee kid's programme has become this giant worldwide success. However it isn't perfect, nor is it as good as some of us fans think it is; it could & can do better. There used to be some great criticism of Who but much of it now is very poor, the odd bit such as this (http://www.offthetelly.co.uk/reviews/2007/doctorwho2.htm) provides much of what's missing from Who fandom these days.

Who is fun & I do enjoy it as much as I did in 1972, but I want it to be much more than it is. I want it to be consistant, something it wasn't been since the Hinchcliffe/Holmes era. As with most fans I'm hugely excited about Moffat & hugely grateful to RTD for pushing the show back on telly but I can't sit back and be quiet when it's being naff.

[Stressfactor]

He may be centuries old but looks 35

Well, that was always supposed to be part of the deceptiveness of the Doctor. Troughton was 46 when he took on the role and certainly looked thereabouts -- not like a 450 year-old. Tom Baker was 41 when he started and made claims to 750 (and later 760). Peter Davison was even younger than Tennant when he started in the role.It was meant to remind viewers that apperances can be decieving.

The TARDIS looked like a police box -- something that in the 1960's would not have seemed out-of-place at all -- and yet under the surface it was something more. The Doctor looks human but he's not; he has looked like a grandfather, a hobo, a dandy, a bohemian, a man a girl would take home to meet the family, a colorblind clown, and a dapper little fella and on one level he IS all of these things and yet, on another level, he is NONE of these things.

He is the outsider always. He stands outside the circles and he sees things for how they are and he is not afraid to say so. He is an alien in EVERY sense of the word. Sure he loves Earth and he loves humanity, but in the end he CANNOT be one of us and if he's honest -- he never would WANT to... not forever.

[mattx110]

You know, if you shaved him, cut his hair, and dressed him like a proper English banker he'd be very Doctor-like!
Shave, ok... the hair stays. I don't think they could make him shave it, even with the million pounds a year.
"A drunken perp". What a charming individual you are. To clarify, Bill Bailey is a talented actor and comedian, very popular in the UK, who would probably have just the right level of eccentricity for the Doctor. The character is not (or never was, prior to Tennant) a romantic lead, it doesn't matter whether he's good looking or not. Rose would doubtless not have found Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, McCoy or either of the Bakers attractive, either, but they were still all a damn sight better than Tennant.
Pertwee was pretty handsome gray. And Colin Baker might've looked more normal in some plain clothes.
Oh please, it's not like Bob Costas hitting on a Chinese female gymnast.

He may be centuries old but looks 35 and it's not like he's seeking her out or anything. It just happened and last time I checked Rose was an adult and responsible for her own actions.

The amount of bitching that goes on in this thread by purported fans of Doctor Who makes me question if you like the show or just like bitching about every damn thing.
Well, he probably looks even younger than 35. I think they made him keep stubble because his first appearance at the end of season 1, he looked 12. And the version of the doctor rose wound up with was only a few hours old anyway. If anything, she's the creepy one. Count his age by how old the hand is and it's only since that christmas (although, they kinda have to some random adventure time in there making it a bit longer, or everyone would go "hey, that doctor only lasted 3 years... if the doctor went through lives at that rate, there's no way he'd be near 900!".

[Ontir]

No. No writer after the War Games even mentions the War Chief until the Virgin novels. There's no indication they've ever even heard of him. The Master, we're told, was at school with the Doctor. The War Chief has clearly never met him before. Beyond the fact that they both have facial hair, there is nothing to connect them. They are not, and never were, meant to be the same man.
No, it really, really wouldn't. There's a reason they haven't done it in 45 years. Why do it now? Also, recasting the earlier Doctors would be seen as massively disrespectful by most people who remembered the old ones.

I don't care if they use the words "War Chief," the writers of "Deadly Assassins" clearly meant to recall both the Doctor and the Master to "War Games" and very obviously played it as a sequel. The Doctor and the War Chief do know each other, they both say they know who the other is in one of their scenes. As the Doctor had regenerated he wouldn't be immediately recognizable, and we can assume the War Chief had regenerated before and again. The War Chief is so very much like the Master, and they seem to have gone to great lengths to find a similar look in Delgado. The books aren't canon to me, until a producer says they are in an episode.

There's nothing disrespectful about re-casting old Doctors, it's already been done WITH the Hartnell Doctor!

[Stressfactor]

I don't care if they use the words "War Chief," the writers of "Deadly Assassins" clearly meant to recall both the Doctor and the Master to "War Games" and very obviously played it as a sequel. The Doctor and the War Chief do know each other, they both say they know who the other is in one of their scenes. As the Doctor had regenerated he wouldn't be immediately recognizable, and we can assume the War Chief had regenerated before and again. The War Chief is so very much like the Master, and they seem to have gone to great lengths to find a similar look in Delgado. The books aren't canon to me, until a producer says they are in an episode.

There's nothing disrespectful about re-casting old Doctors, it's already been done WITH the Hartnell Doctor!

There's one BIG thing you're overlooking here Ontir -- and that's the fact that NO Time Lord seems to change their chosen name once they have taken it. EVERY Time Lord we run into in the series has their given Gallifreyan name, sometimes an academy nickname (for the Doctor it was "Theta Sigma") and -- for the renegades only it seems -- a name they have taken upon themselves. The Doctor, The Monk (or the Meddling Monk), The Master, The Rani, etc.

In "Terror of the Autons" a Time Lord appears to the Doctor and specifically warns him about "The Master". As soon as the Time Lord says the name the Doctor recognizes it. If the War Chief HAD changed his name to "The Master" then there would have been no way of for the Doctor to know that fact because the Doctor had no contact with the War Chief after the latter's presumed death at the end of "The War Games".

In bolstering the idea as well that Time Lords do not change their names -- the Doctor always calls himself "The Doctor" -- when he does have to have an extra alias he adds "John Smith" but he almost always calls himself DOCTOR John Smith. I can think of only two occasions when he was only MISTER John Smith and both of those two were in the new series. The ONE time he didn't use "John Smith" he STILL called himself DOCTOR James McCrimmon -- he just stole the name of his old companion Jamie.

Likewise, EVER time the Master used an alias it was an anagram of "The Master" or else it was 'Master' in another language -- like he used Magiester at least once -- which is the German word for Master.

So, no, sorry. You may believe what you want to believe but the preponderance of evidence is that Time Lords choose the names that best suit them and then stick with them. Also, the Master is a heck of a lot more suave and sophisticated than the War Chief was. Particuarly the Delgado Master.

[Ontir]

I've overlooked nothing. I don't think that Time Lord ever "took" the name "War Chief," it was a title the War Lord gave him. When he returned, regenerated, it was using his old nickname, "the Master."

[rick]

I've overlooked nothing. I don't think that Time Lord ever "took" the name "War Chief," it was a title the War Lord gave him. When he returned, regenerated, it was using his old nickname, "the Master."


The War Chief might be something of a Master copy, but he is not the same guy.

[Stressfactor]

I've overlooked nothing. I don't think that Time Lord ever "took" the name "War Chief," it was a title the War Lord gave him. When he returned, regenerated, it was using his old nickname, "the Master."

You think someone like the Master would let someone else stick a name on him? Mr. "I am the Master, you will obey me?" Not likely.

[tony ingram]

I don't care if they use the words "War Chief," the writers of "Deadly Assassins" clearly meant to recall both the Doctor and the Master to "War Games" and very obviously played it as a sequel. The Doctor and the War Chief do know each other, they both say they know who the other is in one of their scenes. As the Doctor had regenerated he wouldn't be immediately recognizable, and we can assume the War Chief had regenerated before and again. The War Chief is so very much like the Master, and they seem to have gone to great lengths to find a similar look in Delgado. The books aren't canon to me, until a producer says they are in an episode.

There's nothing disrespectful about re-casting old Doctors, it's already been done WITH the Hartnell Doctor!
Which many of us DID consider disrespectful at the time. As for your War Chief theory, I'm sorry, but I think you are reading something into the stories that wasn't there just because you want it to be. The producers didn't pick Delgado because he looked like a character killed off two years before, I doubt they even thought about the War Chief. And the books are canon, as far as a lot of us are concerned. The BBC have been very careful not to make any statements about this and RTD obviously regards at least some of that stuff as canon.

[king mob]

I don't care if they use the words "War Chief," the writers of "Deadly Assassins" clearly meant to recall both the Doctor and the Master to "War Games" and very obviously played it as a sequel.

It's a sequel only in that it features the Time Lords & is set on Gallifrey. What Holmes was trying to do was tear down the Time Lords, and change them from being these godlike figures into flawed, petty individuals living in a dull bureaucratic society. That and rip off The Manchurian Candidate.

There's lots in the story from it being a cracking drama, to it being a satire of British society, but it's not a direct sequel to War Games.

[ChrisIII]

^Although it is possible Goth is the same time lord seen in the council (Same actor-Bernard Horsfall). Although that actor has appeared several times in WHO, I think many fans/writers have stated he is Goth (As well as Gulliver in the Mind Robber-no explanation for the Thal in Planet of the Daleks).

[Yellowjacket]

Quick, slightly off topic question..

My fiancee loves David Tennant (because of Doctor Who) and also loves Hamlet. Is there anyway to get a copy of his performance on DVD over here in Canada? (Region coding isnt an issue).

Thanks for your help!

[king mob]

Quick, slightly off topic question..

My fiancee loves David Tennant (because of Doctor Who) and also loves Hamlet. Is there anyway to get a copy of his performance on DVD over here in Canada? (Region coding isnt an issue).

Thanks for your help!


No, because it's not being filmed & cameras are banned from performances. You can only see it live as part of the RSC's season.

[The Xenos]

Damn you live stage performances! Though really, with such an amazing sounding, and globally popular cast, I wish they would film it. Some people from around the world would like to check it out, but aren't flying to England anytime soon. Hell, I read about Stewart playing MacBeth in Brooklyn and I couldn't get even there in time.

[Haydn C]

No, because it's not being filmed & cameras are banned from performances. You can only see it live as part of the RSC's season.

Which I will be doing this coming Saturday. Hurrah!

Sorry,looking forward to it a lot. Not seen Hamlet performed since I was at school it had Jeremy Northam in it as I remember,round about 1989. My main concern is that my anticipation may be to great.

[Ontir]

It's a sequel only in that it features the Time Lords & is set on Gallifrey. What Holmes was trying to do was tear down the Time Lords, and change them from being these godlike figures into flawed, petty individuals living in a dull bureaucratic society. That and rip off The Manchurian Candidate.

There's lots in the story from it being a cracking drama, to it being a satire of British society, but it's not a direct sequel to War Games.

Apart from the Doctor being thrown into a nearly identical situation as "War Games" and the Doctor, the good guy, being the one under scrutiny, while the Master, the bad guy, is left largely alone and allowed to slink off unhindered, as was done in the case of the War Chief in "War Games."

I get the satire, that was obvious. It doesn't negate the sequel-nature of the story. Until RTD, in his final eps, or Moffatt says contrary I will continue to view the War Chief and the Master as one and the same.

[Robo Ape]

Is it worth getting the new issue of Doctor Who Magazine it's just I noticed their is an interview in it with Catherine Tate ?

I don't normally bother with DWM these days unless their is something interesting in it.

[ChrisIII]

Apparentally in it Tate says she wouldn't mind returning as Donna, but that the current direction of the series doesn't work with it.

Also, there is news that neither Martha or Mickey will be in Torchwood. Kind of weird considering the set-up in Journey's End.


I wonder what Moffat will do for a companion? There is some speculation that Sally Sparrow will become the Doctor's companion, but BLINK was fine by itself.

[Typo Lad]

Also, there is news that neither Martha or Mickey will be in Torchwood. Kind of weird considering the set-up in Journey's End.

Wha? Source?

I wonder what Moffat will do for a companion? There is some speculation that Sally Sparrow will become the Doctor's companion, but BLINK was fine by itself.

She was awesome, but I think a week-after-week exposure would diminish her.

I'd love to see the Doctor take a companion from another world or time. I believe this has been done in the past?

[king mob]

It doesn't negate the sequel-nature of the story. Until RTD, in his final eps, or Moffatt says contrary I will continue to view the War Chief and the Master as one and the same.

Fair enough but you'll be a tad wrong.

[king mob]

Wha? Source?

It's been rumoured, mainly by The Scum, that Ageyman won't be around due to her involvement in CSI:London. Noel Clarke's career as a writer/director/actor is going through the roof after the success of his latest film Adulthood, so I wouldn't be surprised if he's been tempted elsewhere.



She was awesome, but I think a week-after-week exposure would diminish her.

She was a nice one off but having her there every week is just a fanboy wank fantasy.

I'd love to see the Doctor take a companion from another world or time. I believe this has been done in the past?

Loads of times from the likes of Victoria & Jamie through to Leela & Nyssa.

[Ontir]

Fair enough but you'll be a tad wrong.

According to you.

I'd love to see Sally return, she was fantastic. I think it would be very interesting to see her turn up from time to time, not necessarily going with the Doctor, but being someone he keeps bumping into.

I'd also love to see that non-episode we got at the end where Sally ran into the Doctor and Martha. See what that was all about, and maybe how that lead into the Weeping Angels encounter.

[ChrisIII]

Apparentally it's the DWM that states that Noel & Freema are not part of the Torchwood cast.

Indeed, the Doctor has had many non-contemporary companions. Captain Jack counts, I think, since he's from the year 5000 and also originally met the Doctor in World War II.

[Stressfactor]

Complete list? (Because I'm anal retentive....)

Not counting his Granddaughter, Susan...

Vicki was from the future
Steven was from the future
Jamie was from 1746 Scotland
Victoria was from 1866 England
Leela was from the future AND from another planet -- although it was a human colony world.
Romana was Gallifreyan
Adric was from Alzarius
Nyssa was from Traken
Turlough was from Trion

Granted, all of the "alien" companions still looked completely human. It *would* be nice for the Doctor to have an alien companion that looked a little more alien.

Also might be fun to have another companion from the past... Maybe in tribute to the series the Doctor should pick someone up from 1963. :biggrin:

[Ontir]

"Not part of the cast" is a tricky statement though. It doesn't negate the possibility of them being on the show for the up-coming story, or part of it, while keeping them off the "official" show roster.

The longest-ever companion was Frazer Hines' "Jamie," who ran from Hartnell to the very end of Troughton, then again for a few special appearances. He was from Earth's past.

[Stressfactor]

The longest-ever companion was Frazer Hines' "Jamie," who ran from Hartnell to the very end of Troughton, then again for a few special appearances. He was from Earth's past.

Not quite. Hines NEVER worked with Hartnell. Hines came on in the second Troughton story "The Highlanders" and then, yes, did remain for the entirety of Troughton's run -- three years. He also did appear in a cameo in "The Five Doctors" and he and Troughton were reunited for "The Two Doctors".

Technically, Janet Fielding lasted more YEARS on the show but because, by that time, each serial was fewer EPISODES it means that Hines has the most number of episodes as a companion under his belt but Fielding has more years as a companion to her name.

[Ontir]

I thought Jamie was there when Hartnell regenerated. I'll have to go back and look that up!

Fielding more years, Hines more work.

[Dark_Master]

No, because it's not being filmed & cameras are banned from performances. You can only see it live as part of the RSC's season.I had read somewhere (OG probably, but I don't really remember) that they did a full scale DVD-quality production of Ian McKellen's King Lear which hasn't been released yet but is slated to be shown on both BBC and PBS before it makes it to retail DVD, so assuming that's true odds are they would definitively want to make one of Hamlet taking in count the reception it's had so far

[Stressfactor]

D'oh! Forgot another companion from the future! Zoe Herriot came from the "21st century"

In thinking about it -- It was only that spate of time in the early 1970's and then through the 1980's and on into today where the show used contemporary Earth companions to near exclusivity.

[Ontir]

Zoe rocked!

I would still love to see the actress return as Zoe forty years later!

[king mob]

According to you.

No, according to Barry Letts, Terrance Dicks & Robert Holmes who created The Master to be a new character to act as Moriarty to Pertwee's Doctor. The pair of them saw Pertwee as a Holmes type figure (with the Brig as his Watson) and they wanted a new villian who would be the equal of the Doctor.

[king mob]

Zoe rocked!

I would still love to see the actress return as Zoe forty years later!

Unlikely as she's one of the UK's major theatrical agents since she left acting.

[ChrisIII]

Ben and Polly witnessed the first regeneration. (They were introduced in the Hartnell story "The War Machines" and left in "The Faceless ones")

[Stressfactor]

Unlikely as she's one of the UK's major theatrical agents since she left acting.
Actually, in an interview last summer she said she would be willing to do it BUT only if it were a charity special -- like Children in Need or something.

[Robo Ape]

Though whether Martha is in it is still up in the air it seems their is a fairly good chance Mickey will be in it, according to the last reports I saw.

[Stressfactor]

Finished watching "Inferno" the other night and... HOLY CRAP! I'd forgotten what a punch to the gut this story is.

Sure, there's the usual male chauvenism and there are some usual cheesy bits (dialogue AND special effects) but the near unrelenting darkness of the story and the fact that the writers really get you to care about these doomed characters and then there's just the sheer realization that there is nothing the Doctor can do. There will be no last minute saves of THIS world -- it will burn and all the people there WILL die. And Liz shooting the Brigade Leader in the back to save the Doctor was both a cheer moment but also a 'Whoa!' moment as you consider that her last act was at least one of manslaughter.

The quasi-environmental message is also one that really rings out today. It's starting to become clear to me that there was this theme throughout Pertwee's run that really castigated humanity for it's attempts to always take the easy way out. "Inferno" is man's reckless search for cheap forms of energy without considering all the possible consequences, "The Mind of Evil" was humanity's desire to not have to deal with the mesy roots or the consequences of crime -- just take the criminal and wipe their mind, "The Claws of Axos" was also greedy humanity thinking to take advantage of a way of getting cheap food without considering the consequences again or questioning the motives of those offering it, "The Green Death" also went back to man's thoughtless polluting of the planet, and "Invasion of the Dinosaurs" dealt with humans again seeking a fast and easy way out of the pollution problem instead of taking the slow path of cleaning things up and changing things.

Wonder how well Moffat remembers the themes of the Pertwee years? :wink:

[king mob]

If one strips away the funky 70's nature of the Pertwee era, the constant rip-offs of Quatermass & the repitition of the plots, you'll see a lot of very serious dramas with a socialist anti-authoritarian tint hiding as kids telly. It's one of the best things about the Letts/Dicks era & although there was always signs of this, it wasn't til Pertwee that this all became obvious.

I love Inferno, it's a simply brilliant & flawless piece of Who that any fan of the programme should see.

[Stressfactor]

You know, everyone throws around Quatermass in British Sci-Fi but, as a Yank, I've never seen a bit of it and I'm starting to wonder if that's a good or a bad thing.

On the one hand, it's obviously considered a Sci-Fi classic. On the other hand, I don't have my enjoyment of other stuff ruined by thinking "oh, that is SUCH a Quatermass rip-off". Kind of like a lot of my enjoyment of other things have been ruined by "Star Wars"... A couple of weeks ago I had to read and review the Radical Publishing comic book "Freedom Formula" and it was a very pretty LOOKING comic book but the story was so "Star Wars" derivative that I couldn't really enjoy it on its own merits.

[Ontir]

Unlikely as she's one of the UK's major theatrical agents since she left acting.

I know, but I don't care! I want her back and I'm going to just continue to put that out into the Whoniverse in the hopes that we melt her resistance!

I saw the 70's Quatermass with Sir John Mills, Brenda Blethyn, and Simon McCorckindale (The WASPiest and least likely actor to ever portay a Jew, proven by the fact that he had to keep telling us he was a Jew, over and over and over again!), which was very odd, but pretty good.

I think the Quatermass property is ripe for big-screen development, preferably with Nolan and Caine!

[king mob]

You know, everyone throws around Quatermass in British Sci-Fi but, as a Yank, I've never seen a bit of it and I'm starting to wonder if that's a good or a bad thing.

It's a very, very bad thing.

On the one hand, it's obviously considered a Sci-Fi classic.

Along with HG Wells, Aldous Huxley & John Wyndam it pretty much shaped modern British science fiction and fantasy, not to mention that it's frequently pilfered by Who, most recently in The Lazarus Experiment.

Along with HG Wells, Quatermass and it's author Nigel Kneale, is a massive influence on Who (Roger Delgado appeared in the second Quatermass serial (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMx033wJkzM)) & British telefantasy generally, but it was Pertwee's first year that really wore the Quatermass influence for all to see. In fact Barry Letts searched out Nigel Kneale to write for Who, but Kneale hated the programme which is a pity.


On the other hand, I don't have my enjoyment of other stuff ruined by thinking "oh, that is SUCH a Quatermass rip-off".
It doesn't for me & I adore Nigel Kneale's work far more than I have anything I've seen in Who. However Who's pilfered from virtually every British source of science fiction so I don't mind too much as long as there's some original take on it. Even RTD regularlly 'borrows' from 2000AD (Gridlock takes from Judge Dredd & Nemesis the Warlock) & actually does it quite well.

My first exposure to Quatermass was the Hammer films & they're very good, especially Quatermass & the Pit. However the original serial of Quatermass & the Pit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=helcHAUMMh0) is astonishingly good & although it's obviously dated, it stands up as a piece of drama & the first true classic of British telefantasy.

Nigel Kneale (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlrr4mvl1cw) is a huge figure in science fiction & not only a influence on Who but has also influenced John Carpenter & The X Files is basically an updating & Americanisation of Quatermass. Have a look also at The Stone Tape (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbRtXoRGk1o), it's one of the few Kneale plays remaining from the 60's & 70's that ITV or the BBC didn't wipe.

[king mob]

I saw the 70's Quatermass with Sir John Mills, Brenda Blethyn, and Simon McCorckindale (The WASPiest and least likely actor to ever portay a Jew, proven by the fact that he had to keep telling us he was a Jew, over and over and over again!), which was very odd, but pretty good.

It's not the best thing Kneale ever did but it's still vastly better than rubbish like Spooks: Code 9 or most of Torchwood.

I think the Quatermass property is ripe for big-screen development, preferably with Nolan and Caine!

Well The Quatermass Experiment was remade for BBC4 a few years ago with Mark Gatiss & David Tennant, & they did a very good job of it considering it went out live as did the original serials.
But yes, an updating would work mainly because much of the ideas were ahead of their time & they're just great stories.

[Ontir]

I was so underwhelmed by Spooks that I popped the first disk, sealed it up with most of the episodes unwatched and sent it and the rest back to Netflix. What soapy twaddle!

I know about, and have seen bits of the live Quatermass, but I think they made a major mistake making him younger. I'd like to see a big budget, lavish film, directed by Nolan and starring Michael Caine as the eponymous doctor.

[Paul McEnery]

"A drunken perp". What a charming individual you are. To clarify, Bill Bailey is a talented actor and comedian, very popular in the UK, who would probably have just the right level of eccentricity for the Doctor. The character is not (or never was, prior to Tennant) a romantic lead, it doesn't matter whether he's good looking or not. Rose would doubtless not have found Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, McCoy or either of the Bakers attractive, either, but they were still all a damn sight better than Tennant.

Go sideways with this idea, and we get Dylan Moran as The Doctor.

Why not? After all, lots of planets have an Ireland.

[mattx110]

I know, but I don't care! I want her back and I'm going to just continue to put that out into the Whoniverse in the hopes that we melt her resistance!

I saw the 70's Quatermass with Sir John Mills, Brenda Blethyn, and Simon McCorckindale (The WASPiest and least likely actor to ever portay a Jew, proven by the fact that he had to keep telling us he was a Jew, over and over and over again!), which was very odd, but pretty good.

I think the Quatermass property is ripe for big-screen development, preferably with Nolan and Caine!Some jews are WASPy looking. The first time I heard his first name used I was like "Oh shit, of course the most brilliant scientist in British history is a jew. So obvious in retrospect.

In a big screen, they'd need to establish how to pronounce Quatermass early on... otherwise it just sounds silly, because it's probably one of the least common names in America ever. Maybe they could make it something more marketable here, like "Quaker Mass"... As good as oatmeal and church.

It's not the best thing Kneale ever did but it's still vastly better than rubbish like Spooks: Code 9 or most of Torchwood.


Well The Quatermass Experiment was remade for BBC4 a few years ago with Mark Gatiss & David Tennant, & they did a very good job of it considering it went out live as did the original serials.
But yes, an updating would work mainly because much of the ideas were ahead of their time & they're just great stories.And um... the guy who played Quatermass, who I will think of later. umm... LOEG movie...it's something too obvious for me to remember. I'm that clever.

Go sideways with this idea, and we get Dylan Moran as The Doctor.

Why not? After all, lots of planets have an Ireland.And booze.

[king mob]

I was so underwhelmed by Spooks that I popped the first disk, sealed it up with most of the episodes unwatched and sent it and the rest back to Netflix. What soapy twaddle!


It's ok but it's like watching something by Alan Bleasdale or Dennis Potter compared to the shite that is Spooks: Code 9. It's even worse than Bonekickers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonekickers), which was one of the biggest wastes of license fee I've ever seen.

[Mermaid]

Go sideways with this idea, and we get Dylan Moran as The Doctor.

Why not? After all, lots of planets have an Ireland.


actually....I can see Bill Bailey or Dylan Moran playing the part of the Doctor. They're both quirky enough to pull it off. Moran would have to lose the bottle of red though

[Ontir]

What I'd like to see in the next companion is a guy.

A young guy who is looking for a good time and sees the Doctor not as someone 900 + years old, but a young guy - probably one who needs to get laid. Someone whose zest for life can lead them into trouble and adventures. We've had 3 women in a row with a few guys coming and going, it's time for the Doctor to go back to "buddy" mode for a bit!

[Paul McEnery]

actually....I can see Bill Bailey or Dylan Moran playing the part of the Doctor. They're both quirky enough to pull it off. Moran would have to lose the bottle of red though

He'd lose more than one!

Runs into the Tardis to escape the Daleks. Face palms dramatically.
DW: Oh crap, forgot the Beaujolais, back in a minute

[Dark_Master]

What I'd like to see in the next companion is a guy.

A young guy who is looking for a good time and sees the Doctor not as someone 900 + years old, but a young guy - probably one who needs to get laid. Someone whose zest for life can lead them into trouble and adventures. We've had 3 women in a row with a few guys coming and going, it's time for the Doctor to go back to "buddy" mode for a bit!has that ever been done before in a "permanent" way? (meaning, he was the only companion, it's not that him and the doctor got separated from the female companion for an episode or two)

and BTW, if you have a chance you should check out the "Doctor Who: The Forgotten" comic that came out this week, its pretty good IMO

[Matt]

No, the Doctor has never had just a solo male companion that I can remember.

Let's see...
Ian, Ben, Jamie, Harry Sullivan, Adric, Turlogh... The Brigadier maybe.

[mattx110]

No, the Doctor has never had just a solo male companion that I can remember.

Let's see...
Ian, Ben, Jamie, Harry Sullivan, Adric, Turlogh... The Brigadier maybe.
In the Two Doctors, The Doctor and Jamie were alone. Though apart for a while too...

[Ontir]

Weren't there episodes that it was just the Doctor and Jamie? It seems there must've been, but perhaps it's just that Hines was with the show for so long and so many female companions came and went as he continued his journeys.

[marshal99]

I would rather the doctor have some non human companions - an ood perhaps. :biggrin:

[Ontir]

It's hard to fit an Ood companion in on Earth in almost any century. Also, the companions are meant to represent the audience. Leela worked because she was a very simple woman from an un-civilized age, traveling with a man who was like a god to her. They can be humanoid, but being entirely alien just doesn't really work.

[Stressfactor]

Weren't there episodes that it was just the Doctor and Jamie? It seems there must've been, but perhaps it's just that Hines was with the show for so long and so many female companions came and went as he continued his journeys.

Not... *really*... As was mentioned before "The Two Doctors" probably comes closest. Both Ben and Polly got sidelined during "The Faceless Ones" but they came up with a kind of temporary female companion in the form of the character of Samantha Briggs -- played by Pauline Collins.

The Doctor and Jamie get to run around the first half of "Evil of the Daleks" without a female companion but this was the story that introduced Victoria and she pops up about half-way through.

After that, once they dropped Victoria off they picked up Zoe in the very next story.

The ONLY episode I can think of without ANY sort of female companion is actually the "lost" William Hartnell First Doctor story -- "The Massacre". And, in many ways, that's his companion Steven's story. The Doctor doesn't show up much at all in that one and Peter Purves gets to carry the whole thing as Steven.

But I, too, miss more testosterone on the TARDIS. I mean, sure, Tennant is pretty good looking but after years and years of "something for the dads" it would be nice to have a little more eye candy for the ladies.

Plus, I miss seeing that "big brother" side to the Doctor. It used to be that the character DID have that aspect to his personality -- particularly with characters like Turlough and Adric and, after seeing "Best Buddy Doctor" this past season it's made me miss seeing the Doctor playing the brotherly role again.

[Stressfactor]

and BTW, if you have a chance you should check out the "Doctor Who: The Forgotten" comic that came out this week, its pretty good IMO

Yes, quite good and for the record -- my money for the villain in this mini-series is: The Valyard

[ChrisIII]

If I recall correctly, in the novels the Doctor has a few male companions: Grant, who travelled with the Doctor between TRIAL OF A TIME LORD and TIME AND THE RANI (Although the Sixth Doctor left with Mel in TRIAL, it's assumed by fans and writers he dropped her off with his future-but still sixth-self and had all the adventures with Grant and later Evelyn in that period before he picked up Mel "again" in the novel "Business Unusual" Confusing, I know!).

There's also Frobisher the shape-shifting penquin(Who first appeared in the comics but has appeared in many novels and audios), who I assume was male....


Also Chris Cwejj(sp?) who travelled with the Seventh Doctor for a while, and was pretty much his last chronological companion before his regeneration into the Eighth....


The longest-lasting companion for the Eigth Doctor (That we know of) was Fitz.

[Dark_Master]

Yes, quite good and for the record -- my money for the villain in this mini-series is: The Valyard
really? I just assumed it was going to be one of the Master's old regenerations (from when he still had the beard) because there's someone that looks kinda like one of them in the last pages

[Stressfactor]

really? I just assumed it was going to be one of the Master's old regenerations (from when he still had the beard) because there's someone that looks kinda like one of them in the last pages

I thought the Master too, at first but then I realized that the figure appears to be wearing a black pinstripe suit -- kind of an opposite to the Doctor's blue pinstriped suit. Then there is the fact that he's trying to force a regneration and he says that the Doctor will be his when he regenerates and the Valyard always was a POTENTIAL future incarnation towards the end of the Doctor's reneration cycle. And finally, there is the fact that the figure has focused the whole museum on the Doctor's life and his various incarnations AND he's had the ability to steal the Doctor's memories -- that CAN'T be something that just anybody can do. Although, come to think of it, saying it is the Valyard is maybe a bit TOO specific. The Valyard, after all, represented one, specific, potential regeneration. Maybe I should say that I suspect the villian here will be LIKE the Valyard and he will be a POTENTIAL regeneration -- a "Dark Doctor" -- the distillation of all the Doctor's darker impulses just as the Valyard had the potential to be.

[Ontir]

[...]it would be nice to have a little more eye candy for the ladies.

LADIES?!?!?!? WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT LADIES?

[Stressfactor]

LADIES?!?!?!? WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT LADIES?

All right... Ladies and gay men.

However, for the record, I am a woman and I likes me some eye candy...:wink:

[Ontir]

Well... I guess I can live with that. :tongue:

[Sanagi]

I'd like to see a new series take on Turlough. That is, the shady, secretive companion part of it, not the complete mess of backstory.

People have been forgetting about Zoe for decades, whenever the topic of strong female companions comes up.

[Ontir]

It's funny, Zoe was maybe the most accurate forecast, in terms of a capable self-possessed modern woman, but she was followed by two girls who did what they were told for the most part. The world around them had changed though and it was decided the Doctor needed a more modern woman - enter Sarah Jane. I loved Sarah Jane, but I don't think even she was as "liberated" as Zoe.

[Stressfactor]

It's funny, Zoe was maybe the most accurate forecast, in terms of a capable self-possessed modern woman, but she was followed by two girls who did what they were told for the most part. The world around them had changed though and it was decided the Doctor needed a more modern woman - enter Sarah Jane. I loved Sarah Jane, but I don't think even she was as "liberated" as Zoe.

I won't say that Liz Shaw "did what she was told". In the first episode in particular she was a fairly independent minded soul -- it's just that the writers had gotten into a rut. They had turned the companion into a crutch to stand in for the audience -- they needed the companion to be the person the Doctor explained stuff too so that the audience would get stuff explained to them. Liz, being a scientist, didn't need to have stuff explained to her and the writers wouldn't come up with other and better ways to get around the problem... So they started dumbing Liz down a bit and in the end jettisoned her character altogether... Although Caroline John has said that it was probably for the best because by the end of her last story -- "Inferno" -- she was about four months preganant and no one knew and it was getting hard to hide the fact. In those mini-dresses I'm surprised she managed to hide it THAT long!

But yeah, I was really impressed when I first saw "The Invasion" and saw that Zoe got to save the day all by herself using her brains.

[Green Goblin]

Some good news both the Brain of Morbus and the War machines are now out on DvD. Also last Saturday after going to see Clone Wars down the bay went to the Dr who shop and saw the new classic figures I already got the Sea Devil. By the has anybody here being listen to the latest Eigthith Docotr Big Finish Cds the Sisterhood of Karn and Ventengce of Morbus .

[Ontir]

Some jews are WASPy looking. The first time I heard his first name used I was like "Oh shit, of course the most brilliant scientist in British history is a jew. So obvious in retrospect.

I know. I have a couple of friends, one who is more noticeably ethnic looking, yet completely devoid of any religious ambitions or convictions, and another who is fairly WASPy looking, yet extremely religious and devout. The thing that's interesting is how other people sometimes treat them because of their looks.

My issue with McCorkindale was that he kept saying "I'm a Jew" or "We're Jews" over and over. That and the curly brown wig were all he had to sell the idea. If he'd kept his normal hair, toned down the rhetoric, and just let a Star of David and a well-place Mennorrah do the trick he and the show would've been better served.

In a big screen, they'd need to establish how to pronounce Quatermass early on... otherwise it just sounds silly, because it's probably one of the least common names in America ever. Maybe they could make it something more marketable here, like "Quaker Mass"... As good as oatmeal and church.

I thought it was "Quartermass" for the longest time. It's one of those names that never made it from Britain to the US. I'd have people saying the name a few times in the trailer to get it out there, and I'd have someone say "Quartermass" and be corrected early on in the film.

And um... the guy who played Quatermass, who I will think of later. umm... LOEG movie...it's something too obvious for me to remember. I'm that clever.

And booze.

The actors who've portrayed Professor Bernard Quatermass are:

Reginald Tate (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045436/)
James Robinson (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047766/)
Brain Donlevy (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049646/)
André Morell (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0051305/)
Andrew Kier (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062168/)
Sir John Mills (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0823523/)
and most recently,
Jason Flemyng (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0450315/)

[king mob]

My issue with McCorkindale was that he kept saying "I'm a Jew" or "We're Jews" over and over. That and the curly brown wig were all he had to sell the idea. If he'd kept his normal hair, toned down the rhetoric, and just let a Star of David and a well-place Mennorrah do the trick he and the show would've been better served.

His Judaism was to play a larger part in the plot as part of the original story was to involve a theological debate involving McCorkindale's character's Jewishness, Quatermass's secularism & the Planet People's paganism, but that got incredibly diluted. It's also worth noting that Nigel Kneale disliked McCorkindale's casting intensely.
The actors who've portrayed Professor Bernard Quatermass are:

Reginald Tate (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045436/)
James Robinson (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047766/)
Brain Donlevy (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049646/)
André Morell (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0051305/)
Andrew Kier (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062168/)
Sir John Mills (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0823523/)
and most recently,
Jason Flemyng (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0450315/)

Kier & Morell are Quatermass as far as I'm concerned. Flemying did a good job but after watching Naked (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107653/)(finally getting a DVD release after too many years) I'd be happy with David Thewlis as Quatermass should there ever be a revamp.
Considering that the BBC are trawling their old drama programmes for revamping (Survivors starts it's revamp in the autumn) I can see Quatermass being remade soon.

[king mob]

Doctor Who has pipped Friends as the TV series people most want to see turned into a movie.

The revival of Doctor Who came top of a list of shows viewers are eager to see adapted for the big-screen.

Sci-fi series Red Dwarf was third, followed by the US hits Heroes and CSI: Crime Scene Investigation.

It was followed by 24, starring Kiefer Sutherland as Jack Bauer, Lost, Torchwood, and the 1960s series The Prisoner.

Star Trek was named the show that has made the most successful transition to the big screen.

Sex and the City came third, The Simpsons fifth, Charlie's Angels seventh and The X Files, recently revived with original stars Gillian Anderson and David Duchovny, tenth.

Around 2,300 TV fans were polled online in July and August this year.



http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/arts_entertainment/dr+who+tops+big+screen+movie+choice/2434572

[Robo Ape]

'Dr Who' specials to film in America? ('http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/a126698/dr-who-specials-to-film-in-america.html)

Who would you like to see as the US assistant?

[Stressfactor]

Dr Who' specials to film in America? ('http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/a126698/dr-who-specials-to-film-in-america.html)

Who would you like to see as the US assistant?

Perhaps grist for the Eighth Doctor rumor mill? A return to San Francisco (or, you know, Vancouver BC standing in for San Francisco because it was cheaper to film there) and Daphne Ashbrooke's character of Doctor Grace Holloway? Flashbacks to an unseen Eighth Doctor adventure?

If not, I don't care who they get as a companion just so long as they don't make the same terrible, cliched mistakes as they made with the 1996 TV Movie. Looking back* on that one it's painful even though I watched it when it first broadcast on Fox and really enjoyed it.


*Considering that because of rights screw-ups and legalese crap we in America can't even get it on DVD so the only way to watch it is through... slightly illegal means...

[Ontir]

His Judaism was to play a larger part in the plot as part of the original story was to involve a theological debate involving McCorkindale's character's Jewishness, Quatermass's secularism & the Planet People's paganism, but that got incredibly diluted. It's also worth noting that Nigel Kneale disliked McCorkindale's casting intensely.

Now that would've made a lot more sense, and it would also have made the story more interesting, instead of just weird.

Kier & Morell are Quatermass as far as I'm concerned. Flemying did a good job but after watching Naked (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0107653/)(finally getting a DVD release after too many years) I'd be happy with David Thewlis as Quatermass should there ever be a revamp.
Considering that the BBC are trawling their old drama programmes for revamping (Survivors starts it's revamp in the autumn) I can see Quatermass being remade soon.

I've got to see more of the Quatermass stuff. I got "Quatermass & the Pit" from Netflix, but it wouldn't play and I was eager to get onto some other stuff. I'll have to put it back on my queue.

I'm still favouring a Nolan helmed, Caine starring Quatermass feature film!

[Ontir]

I'm re-posting the Digital Spy Link (http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/a126698/dr-who-specials-to-film-in-america.html?imdb) because the previous one wasn't working.

I think shooting some eps here is a really good idea, and one a long-time coming. It will help the show gain ground in the U.S., which can't do anything but help it in terms of staying power. I don't mean that the U.S. will make it a hit, rather that adding another market, or gaining strength in one that's not really as tapped as it could be is a good thing.

In terms of an American Companion, Lisa Kudrow, Christina Ricci, Summer Bishil (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1974397/), or Julianne Moore would be interesting. Hey! Maybe facing down the Daleks would help Paris Hilton find some depth!

[Typo Lad]

Wait, there's a Jewish character in a Who serial?

[Stressfactor]

HA! "Doctor Who" references in "The Middleman" last Monday -- The Middleman took the alias of "Benton", his partner Wendy Watson took the alias of "Herriott" and there were name drops to "McCrimmon" "Perpergillium" and another character was called "Lethbridge-Stewart"! I love the fact that the writers for "The Middleman" are unabashed geeks.

[Stressfactor]

Wait, there's a Jewish character in a Who serial?

No, apparently there is a Jewish character in the British Sci-Fi mini-series "Quatermass"... or at least one of the Quatermass stories.

[Ontir]

Simon McCorkindale played a character who kept telling us he was Jewish in the Quatermass Conclusion which starred Sir John Mills, and Brenda Blethyn back when she was a virtual unknown. I wish they hadn't excised the bits that would've made McCorkindale's constant pronouncements relevant from the show. It would be interesting to see if they were shot, and if so, put them back in.

[king mob]

I've got to see more of the Quatermass stuff. I got "Quatermass & the Pit" from Netflix, but it wouldn't play and I was eager to get onto some other stuff. I'll have to put it back on my queue.



The film version of Quatermass & the Pit is the best of the three film versions, but if possible get the original TV serial. Not only will you see one of the finest bits of British telly drama but you'll see where part of the design of the Tardis came from.

[king mob]

Simon McCorkindale played a character who kept telling us he was Jewish in the Quatermass Conclusion which starred Sir John Mills, and Brenda Blethyn back when she was a virtual unknown. I wish they hadn't excised the bits that would've made McCorkindale's constant pronouncements relevant from the show. It would be interesting to see if they were shot, and if so, put them back in.

The Quatermass Conclusion is just the edited version of the tv serial, but the scenes were never shot as Kneale's original script had been completely re-written several times before filming. In fact it was originally going to be a BBC production (the effects shots in the serial are actually from the abandonded BBC series) but Kneale had a huge falling out with the BBC and took the project to Euston Films & ITV.
Another little connection between Who & Quatermass is that Verity Lambert was producer of this Quatermass serial.

[mattx110]

I know. I have a couple of friends, one who is more noticeably ethnic looking, yet completely devoid of any religious ambitions or convictions, and another who is fairly WASPy looking, yet extremely religious and devout. The thing that's interesting is how other people sometimes treat them because of their looks.

My issue with McCorkindale was that he kept saying "I'm a Jew" or "We're Jews" over and over. That and the curly brown wig were all he had to sell the idea. If he'd kept his normal hair, toned down the rhetoric, and just let a Star of David and a well-place Mennorrah do the trick he and the show would've been better served.
Thanks for explaining, it's a lot funnier to me now. I need to see the wig.


I thought it was "Quartermass" for the longest time. It's one of those names that never made it from Britain to the US. I'd have people saying the name a few times in the trailer to get it out there, and I'd have someone say "Quartermass" and be corrected early on in the film.

Well, it's not Quaitermain, is it? It should be pronounced like Quartermass... not Quaitermiss!

The actors who've portrayed Professor Bernard Quatermass are:

Reginald Tate (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0045436/)
James Robinson (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0047766/)
Brain Donlevy (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0049646/)
André Morell (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0051305/)
Andrew Kier (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062168/)
Sir John Mills (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0823523/)
and most recently,
Jason Flemyng (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0450315/)
Cool. Now I have something new to get obssessive about.:biggrin: Must see them all.

[Ontir]

Always glad 2 B of service! :tongue:

That "Mike Brady Merkin" just was not a happening look for McCorkindale!

[king mob]

I'm working through The War Machines DVD & although the story is a bit naff, it's still fun & clearly the template for 'alien invasion' stories that the series became well known for.

What is lovely is a documentary about the history of the Post Office Tower (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_Office_Tower) (now the BT Tower) by the always wonderful Tony Benn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Benn). It's one of those great little extras that pop up on the DVD's frequently.

[Stressfactor]

I'm working through The War Machines DVD & although the story is a bit naff, it's still fun & clearly the template for 'alien invasion' stories that the series became well known for.

It IS a bit silly but that scene where the Doctor faces down one of the machines while all the other sodiers are backing off still rings out as a lovely "Badass" moment for the Doctor. One of my fave images.

[king mob]

Today's Guardian has a great article about the BBC Radiophonic Workshop.

For the past decade, the most sought after vintage musical rarities haven't just been old Northern Soul 45s, or original garage punk singles, or any of the kinds of music that have been compiled into multiple box sets, or whose prime movers' stories of drugs and disasters have been told again and again. Joining the likes of the 13th Floor Elevators in the cult music pantheon have been records made in the 1960s and 70s by often unknown musicians, to be used as incidental music by film, television and radio companies. Many of them are exhilaratingly inventive, but for years they have sat forgotten on dusty shelves. This summer, you can't move for reissues of them.

Why are listeners responding to this old, near-forgotten music, which was never intended for widespread release? John Cavanagh, the Glaswegian boss of the Glo Spot label, which has been reissuing library music, has a theory. "There's a striking originality to library records from that time because they were all about the search for new sounds. Back then, musicians weren't told what to do. Big companies also weren't so obsessed with focus groups and demographics, so musicians were allowed to have more open-ended adventures." The result is music that sounds like nothing else.

This summer's Glo Spot release is Electrosound by Ron Geesin, the composer best known for cowriting Pink Floyd's 1970 album Atom Heart Mother and for being a regular guest on John Peel's early shows. Electrosound was originally made for KPM, the international library label that spawned the theme tunes for Mastermind, News At Ten and Whicker's World, but this record is nothing like those. After all, it features tape manipulations of detuned mandolins and banjos, cymbals played by bows, and the sound of Geesin shouting into the piano.

Geesin still writes in the same converted garage in which he made Electrosound in 1972, and he remembers his experiments fondly. "In those, days it was all about tape, and tape seemed to offer endless possibilities. It released people like me because you could make these strange combinations of the past and the future when you played with it. And because the sounds you could make from it sounded so striking, people from TV wanted to fill their trousers with it."

Geesin wrote jagged piano jingles for Fenzig headache tablets, music for the BBC's Omnibus, and reams of work for schools TV, although his work was occasionally considered too experimental. Take the manipulated flute and bassoon piece he wrote for Rowntree's Wine Gums - the confectioner had asked him to write something new. "They said, 'Not as new as that, Ron!' So I calmed it down and added some banjo, and they said, 'Not as new as that either!'"

Lots of library music from this time still sounds futuristic and mind-expanding. In some ways, it recalls the psychedelic music of the same period, and in others acts an aural reminder of the age of space travel, when film and TV companies wanted strange music to soundtrack their sci-fi productions.

The most famous example, of course, is the Doctor Who theme tune, written by Ron Grainer and transformed by the late Delia Derbyshire into an electronic music masterpiece for the BBC's in-house library music unit, the Radiophonic Workshop. In recent years, reissues of the original programme's incidental music have sold successfully. Subsequent releases of library music by Derbyshire, Daphne Oram and Desmond Briscoe have recovered other treasure troves.

But this summer has seen the first major retrospective of a individual Radiophonic Workshop artist. The artist honoured is the late John Baker, and the two volumes of The John Baker Tapes have been released by Trunk Records, the pioneering library, soundtrack and jazz label committed to recovering and reissuing lost recordings.

The tapes include idents for news programmes, music from the Dial M for Murder TV series and Ridley Scott's first short film, and the composer himself describing how he made a nine-second electronic track for the Woman's Hour letters slot. Baker's description sums up the sheer amount of work involved in the electronic age before modern synthesisers: not only did he have to record the sound of water pouring from a cider bottle, isolate a note and play it backwards, but he also had to cut every note to make it fit his complicated syncopated melody.

Label boss Jonny Trunk has received lots of emails about one Baker track in particular: an electronic treatment of a Welsh folk song, Tros Y Gareg, which BBC Cymru used as their theme music in the early 1960s. As with the music for Doctor Who, he agrees that people seem to be drawn nostalgically to the music they heard as young children. What's more striking is music that we think of as edgy and experimental now was often used in children's TV and music and movement classes in schools at the time.

But what are the other reasons for library music having such a revival? Trunk has several theories. In the late 90s, he says, reissues of albums like the Dawn of the Dead soundtrack, a record full of strange library music cues, pricked up the ears of fans and small labels. Then came high-profile acts such as the Chemical Brothers, who sampled the Studio G library track Asian Workshop by James Asher on their 1999 album, Surrender, and Jay-Z's Stick 2 the Script in 2000, which sampled Nick Ingman's KPM track Under Pressure.

"Library music became this huge untapped area of sound that brought together all sorts of genres from classical to jazz, from rock to electronics," he adds. And although hip-hop and dance acts had always searched for strange records to sample, now the interest went wider. "People got excited about library music because every other musical area had been pillaged for years. Suddenly all this relatively unknown, relatively underrated, non-commercial music appeared, and they couldn't wait to explore it."

Small labels that are still active such as Studio G - creators of the BBC snooker theme music and a future recipient of the Trunk retrospective treatment - started to get phonecalls about their quirkier records. Label boss John Gale was overwhelmed by the attention, but also delighted. "It was quite extraordinary, but I'm glad people liked it. After all, this music was made in the days of the pirate radio boats, so a lot of it was crazy and naughty." This was music that also had to made behind closed doors, he adds, as the Musicians Union didn't allow its members to make library records. Therefore, the people who made them were even more willing to experiment.

The rarity of many library albums also makes them covetable to the serious record collector, and the growth of eBay and similar websites in the last decade helped these people find the treasures they craved.

However, many record collectors weren't happy when the reissue boom began in earnest. That's what Tim Lee, the British-born MD of Brooklyn-based label Tummy Touch Records, discovered when he reissued the rare and much-loved early 1970s KPM 1000 series in 2007, featuring top British musicians like John Cameron and Alan Parker. Lee thought collectors would be delighted that these albums were now available. Instead, many were irritated that their treasured vinyl LPs, worth upwards of £500 each could now be bought on CD for £9.99. This annoys Lee, especially because of the essential nature of library music. "Library music was never supposed to be expensive," he says. "By its nature, it was utilitarian and designed to be used as cheaply as possible."

There's a snobbery here, Lee says, and he knows of some collectors who have spent years searching for records that could easily be obtained by contacting the labels directly. "People forget that these records were made to be used and heard often, rather than being treated like fetishistic objects," he says. "So by distributing these sounds to more and more people, labels like ours treat the music in a similar way to its initial intentions. I don't see what's wrong with that."

Neither do the other label bosses and musicians who are clamouring to reissue it or use it. If you open your ears in 2008, you will hear the stuff everywhere In rock and hip-hop, for instance; Beck's latest album, Modern Guilt, uses library samples, while Dangermouse, its successful producer, works with library-loving bands such as the Shortwave Set. Elsewhere, the huge interest in Delia Derbyshire's lost tapes should encourage the BBC to unlock their plentiful archives.

But more than anything, the most exciting thing about library music is that this source of untapped sound still has a long way to flow, says Lee. "And perhaps hearing music that raw and spontaneous will only encourage people to make music that's similarly adventurous. Music that will be precious and rare for the right kinds of reasons."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2008/aug/29/electronicmusic

It's worth searching out these sounds & searching out tracks by the likes of Aphex Twin, Orbital & Boards Of Canada.

Here's Orbital doing the Doctor Who theme (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7RlIZywxNQ)at Glastonbury in 2004.

[Ontir]

The Quatermass Conclusion is just the edited version of the tv serial, but the scenes were never shot as Kneale's original script had been completely re-written several times before filming. In fact it was originally going to be a BBC production (the effects shots in the serial are actually from the abandonded BBC series) but Kneale had a huge falling out with the BBC and took the project to Euston Films & ITV.
Another little connection between Who & Quatermass is that Verity Lambert was producer of this Quatermass serial.

The DVD I got from Netflix had the mini-series and the movie. I watched everything! Of course I was disabled at the time and taking pain meds a good deal of the time.

[tricksterpup]

http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/arts_entertainment/dr+who+tops+big+screen+movie+choice/2434572
Yeah, I just saw this follow up as well.
http://www.toxicshock.tv/news/2008/08/25/doctor-who-movie/

Doctor Who Movie?
Steven Moffat, who has replaced Russell T. Davies as writer for “Doctor Who”, said he would like to see the television series made into a feature film.

“It would be good to see it in the cinema so long as it is great and fantastic,” he said, speaking at a master class on the show at the festival here. But he cautioned that the the movie would need careful handling.

“I’m not against it … so long as it never gets in the way of the TV show. If it got in the way of the show that would be appalling.”

Many fans as well as producers have expressed interest in the big-screen adaptation due to the success of the show, which was brought back to BBC three years ago. More than ten million viewers watched this season’s finale in July.

British Actor Simon Pegg is often asked if he would play The Doctor on the silver screen because of his international stardom, but he says he’d rather just enjoy the show.

“I really love ‘Doctor Who’ and would hate to sit down on Saturday night and have it be me.”

Currently, Scottish Actor David Tennant plays the doctor in the series reboot.


I personally would love to see Christopher Eccleston play the Doctor in a big screen adaption. It would actually be fun and could tie into the series but before where the current series is going. Just imagine them doing the Time War as a big screen movie.

[Ontir]

I'd love to see a film in which a companion experiences the Doctor in several incarnations so the audience gets a real understanding of what a Time Lord is, as he or she helps him, in all his iterations, save the universe.

[king mob]

Yeah, I just saw this follow up as well.
http://www.toxicshock.tv/news/2008/08/25/doctor-who-movie/


I personally would love to see Christopher Eccleston play the Doctor in a big screen adaption. It would actually be fun and could tie into the series but before where the current series is going. Just imagine them doing the Time War as a big screen movie.

That article is a complete load of bollocks. Moffatt isn't especially keen on a film version even if the BBC do want to do something film related at some point in order to milk the property for an international market. If they do make a film then Moffat is entirely correct; it shouldn't interfere with the series, nor should it be 90 minutes of fanwank.
There's also stories spinning out of the same talk Moffat did at the television festival in Edinburgh, that Moffat has written episode one of series 5 & it's not featuring Tennant!! Oh noes!!
This is also bollocks. Moffat said he has a rough outline of the first episode written and that's it so far.

[mattx110]

That article is a complete load of bollocks. Moffatt isn't especially keen on a film version even if the BBC do want to do something film related at some point in order to milk the property for an international market. If they do make a film then Moffat is entirely correct; it shouldn't interfere with the series, nor should it be 90 minutes of fanwank.
There's also stories spinning out of the same talk Moffat did at the television festival in Edinburgh, that Moffat has written episode one of series 5 & it's not featuring Tennant!! Oh noes!!
This is also bollocks. Moffat said he has a rough outline of the first episode written and that's it so far.
Plus, all you'd have to do is find and replace "the 11th doctor" with "the 10th doctor" and we're back to Tennant...

[king mob]

Plus, all you'd have to do is find and replace "the 11th doctor" with "the 10th doctor" and we're back to Tennant...

It wouldn't be as simple as that as Moffat has dropped huge hints that 11 will be quite different to 10, but yes, with a bit of tweaking it's something that can be done.

[Zero Hunter]

Just saw on Netflix that they are finally putting out the entire Colin Baker "Trial of a Time Lord" on DVD in the begining of October. I never really got to see much Colin Baker after his first season as the Doctor since the station I used to watch the show on stopped carring it after that, so I have always been curious about latter C. Baker and McCoy Doctor episodes and usually try to get whatever they put out on DVD to take a look at. It just surprised me that they would put out the entire storyarc at once. I have never seen them realese 14 episodes at once before.

[Robo Ape]

That article is a complete load of bollocks. Moffatt isn't especially keen on a film version even if the BBC do want to do something film related at some point in order to milk the property for an international market. If they do make a film then Moffat is entirely correct; it shouldn't interfere with the series, nor should it be 90 minutes of fanwank.
There's also stories spinning out of the same talk Moffat did at the television festival in Edinburgh, that Moffat has written episode one of series 5 & it's not featuring Tennant!! Oh noes!!
This is also bollocks. Moffat said he has a rough outline of the first episode written and that's it so far.

Agree I think he probable follows RTD's line on making a film that he isn't that keen on the idea.

[Tadhg]

Just saw on Netflix that they are finally putting out the entire Colin Baker "Trial of a Time Lord" on DVD in the begining of October. I never really got to see much Colin Baker after his first season as the Doctor since the station I used to watch the show on stopped carring it after that, so I have always been curious about latter C. Baker and McCoy Doctor episodes and usually try to get whatever they put out on DVD to take a look at. It just surprised me that they would put out the entire storyarc at once. I have never seen them realese 14 episodes at once before.

Key to Time was released the same way.

[king mob]

Just saw on Netflix that they are finally putting out the entire Colin Baker "Trial of a Time Lord" on DVD in the begining of October. I never really got to see much Colin Baker after his first season as the Doctor since the station I used to watch the show on stopped carring it after that, so I have always been curious about latter C. Baker and McCoy Doctor episodes and usually try to get whatever they put out on DVD to take a look at. It just surprised me that they would put out the entire storyarc at once. I have never seen them realese 14 episodes at once before.

As mentioned they've done it with the Key To Time, but this is really one story & will sell better as a single set retailing for 25-30 quid than three discs retailing for 15 quid each.

[mattx110]

It wouldn't be as simple as that as Moffat has dropped huge hints that 11 will be quite different to 10, but yes, with a bit of tweaking it's something that can be done.
So, the Doctor won't just be Steven from Coupling with better hair?

[Ryan K]

Hey guys. I'm hoping I can get some help with recommendations.

My Doctor Who DVD collection is rather sparse. I was wondering which DVD's (or DVD sets) have the best special features.

I have tons of stories on VHS so I'm not really looking recommendations based on quality of the episodes. And I don't really have a preference of Doctor here. Just curious which have the best special features. Featurettes, retrospectives, documentaries, good audio commentaries, etc.

A point in the right direction would be appreciated. I don't want to look through DVD reviews for all the discs and figure out which are the best (I do have the Five Doctors SE already).

Any help is appreciated.

[LtMarvel]

Well, the new stuff runs about $100/season.

I don't know how many special features they have to justify that price point.

[marshal99]

13 episodes = $100. Rip-off is all i can say. :frown:

[ChrisIII]

Pretty much all the DVDs are loaded with tons of stuff.


As for the quality of the special features, it's hard to choose but the Peter Davison commentaries are always pretty enjoyable. But the Tom Bakers probably have the best documentaries.


This website for the DVD production crew will help you out:

http://www.restoration-team.co.uk/

[Stressfactor]

My top one for extras is "City of Death". It's a good story, the cast sommentary track is a little sparse but the documentaries are fun, there are some old interviews with Douglas Adams and there are some really good Easter Eggs.

I particularly like the one where Douglas Adams in an old interview clip talks about flying over to Paris during filming along with the director of the next story and staying up all night drinking.

[Ontir]

As mentioned they've done it with the Key To Time, but this is really one story & will sell better as a single set retailing for 25-30 quid than three discs retailing for 15 quid each.

How much IS a quid?

British money confuses me to no end. Soverigns, crowns, farthings, pounds and pence?!?!?

...and I forgot the schilling and tuppence entirely!

[Popgun]

How much IS a quid?

British money confuses me to no end. Soverigns, crowns, farthings, pounds and pence?!?!?

...and I forgot the schilling and tuppence entirely!

It's actually no different from your own. Quid (the plural is the same as the singular, as in a quid, two quid etc) is simply a slang term for pound, just as dollars are known as bucks. 'Tuppence' is a corruption of 'two pence', 0.02 of a pound.

Sovereigns, crowns, farthings and the like all disappeared with the adoption of a decimal monetary system in 1971, so haven't been a factor for almost 40 years.

Coins currently come in 1pence, 2p, 5p, 10p, 20p, 50p, £1 and £2 flavours, while notes are available as £5, £10, £20 and £50 denominations. £5 and £10 notes are coloquially knowns as "fivers" and "tenners" respectively.

[Toku King]

Wanna get the new episodes cheap? Get them on iTunes. It's only $26 a season.

[king mob]

It's actually no different from your own. Quid (the plural is the same as the singular, as in a quid, two quid etc) is simply a slang term for pound, just as dollars are known as bucks. 'Tuppence' is a corruption of 'two pence', 0.02 of a pound.

Sovereigns, crowns, farthings and the like all disappeared with the adoption of a decimal monetary system in 1971, so haven't been a factor for almost 40 years.

Coins currently come in 1pence, 2p, 5p, 10p, 20p, 50p, £1 and £2 flavours, while notes are available as £5, £10, £20 and £50 denominations. £5 and £10 notes are coloquially knowns as "fivers" and "tenners" respectively.

I'm not even going to mention what a 'pony' is.

We still have pound notes in Scotland which is great whenever I go home as it makes me think that I've got more money than I thought I had after a night on the piss.

[king mob]

Well, the new stuff runs about $100/season.

I don't know how many special features they have to justify that price point.

They have edited versions of Doctor Who Confidential, deleted scenes and promo materials including lots of dull interviews with BBC News. £50-60 is still incredibly expensive for a BBC boxset & it's obvious they're taking advantage of how well they sell in the run up to Christmas.

[Ontir]

It's actually no different from your own. Quid (the plural is the same as the singular, as in a quid, two quid etc) is simply a slang term for pound, just as dollars are known as bucks. 'Tuppence' is a corruption of 'two pence', 0.02 of a pound.

Sovereigns, crowns, farthings and the like all disappeared with the adoption of a decimal monetary system in 1971, so haven't been a factor for almost 40 years.

Coins currently come in 1pence, 2p, 5p, 10p, 20p, 50p, £1 and £2 flavours, while notes are available as £5, £10, £20 and £50 denominations. £5 and £10 notes are coloquially knowns as "fivers" and "tenners" respectively.

I knew about fivers and tenners. When I was there in 84 I got a couple of haypennys, but maybe they'd been lying about and seeing a Yank thought, "I'll unload them on this poor bastard!" :evilsmile:

Is the Schilling dead too?

Thanks for the primer. It'll be good to have on hand next time I'm in the UK. My brother was just there last week and says that the money crunch we've been under is just beginning to hit there and that the £ is about to slide. Not good news for you, I know, but it might make me returning to Britain (I'm quite eager! Aside from the food poisoning, I had a blast!) a possibility sooner, rather than later.

[adamthered]

13 episodes = $100. Rip-off is all i can say. :frown:

Yes, it is. Which is why you wait until Deep Discount has their bi-annual sale (next one is in November) and you can usually snag these for about $60 (plus the free shipping :D). Still a bit much for only 14 episodes (they always throw the Christmas Special in there) but much better than the $100 MSRP.

[Toku King]

Yes, it is. Which is why you wait until Deep Discount has their bi-annual sale (next one is in November) and you can usually snag these for about $60 (plus the free shipping :D). Still a bit much for only 14 episodes (they always throw the Christmas Special in there) but much better than the $100 MSRP.

Or get it on iTunes for $26.

[Stressfactor]

Or get it on iTunes for $26.

Still would want the extras. Sometimes the cast commentaries are the best parts of the episodes!

Plus, call me old fashioned, but I want something PHYSICAL I can hang on to. The last time my computer died I lost a lot of stuff because my hard drive fried.

[adamthered]

Or get it on iTunes for $26.

I'm only speaking for those that want something tangible. If not, then yeah, iTunes is the best way to go :biggrin:

[Charles RB]

People have been forgetting about Zoe for decades, whenever the topic of strong female companions comes up.

And Barbara. The Aztecs is her story, Dalek Invasion Of Earth sees her directly working with the rebels, she's the reason her and Ian end up in the Tardis at all...

Just saw on Netflix that they are finally putting out the entire Colin Baker "Trial of a Time Lord" on DVD in the begining of October.

I want this just for the DVD commentary and extras. They will rock, oh yes.

[Stressfactor]

And Barbara. The Aztecs is her story, Dalek Invasion Of Earth sees her directly working with the rebels, she's the reason her and Ian end up in the Tardis at all...

Yeah, Barbara got to kick some ass -- the Aztecs was one of her best. Loved that scene where she held a knife to that guy's throat.

[king mob]

Is the Schilling dead too?

It was shilling & yes it is and has been for 40 years.

Thanks for the primer. It'll be good to have on hand next time I'm in the UK. My brother was just there last week and says that the money crunch we've been under is just beginning to hit there and that the £ is about to slide.

We're officially in recession now. Don't worry, the US will get it soon, especially if McCain & that Palin nutter get elected.

Not good news for you, I know, but it might make me returning to Britain (I'm quite eager! Aside from the food poisoning, I had a blast!) a possibility sooner, rather than later.

It's going to hurt the US economy when British tourists start drying up, especially in New York where they've been catering for weekend trips of British shoppers for about a decade.

[king mob]

I want this just for the DVD commentary and extras. They will rock, oh yes.

If it doesn't have Brian Blessed camping it up like a loon then I want my moneu back.

[Ontir]

We're officially in recession now. Don't worry, the US will get it soon, especially if McCain & that Palin nutter get elected.

We're not getting it soon, it's been here for months! My writing is finally beginning to pay, but I still have a cash gig, which happens to be tele-fundraising. I've been talking to all these ultra-conservative senior citizens across the country who have been telling me over and over, state by state: We're not in a recession, this is a DEPRESSION! They cite the collapse of banks and the repossession of homes, the exact beginnings of the Great Depression, and they're mad as hell at the Republicans who have screwed it all up! I can't tell you how many people I've spoken to (and this is mirrored by other callers I work with) who've said, "I've never voted for anyone other than a Republican before but this year I'm voting for Obama/a Democrat!"

It's going to hurt the US economy when British tourists start drying up, especially in New York where they've been catering for weekend trips of British shoppers for about a decade.

Add to that the fact that Americans can't afford to go anywhere and it stings even more. Dan Rather said "Americans will tolerate anything, so long as it doesn't hold up traffic," and I think that's true, but it's also true that in a society based upon the idea that you can pick up and go anywhere at anytime, when Americans can't take their kids on vacation, and can't afford to get away themselves, they get irritated and look to make changes.

[Ryan K]

Pretty much all the DVDs are loaded with tons of stuff.


As for the quality of the special features, it's hard to choose but the Peter Davison commentaries are always pretty enjoyable. But the Tom Bakers probably have the best documentaries.


This website for the DVD production crew will help you out:

http://www.restoration-team.co.uk/

Awesome! Thanks for that site! As soon as I get a chance this weekend I'll plow through there and make some selections.

[ChrisIII]

The DVDs also are notable for the amount of restoration that's gone into them. Now, classic Doctor Who wasn't made with the best quality filming material, but it's still a major improvement over the VHS.

[Ontir]

They're going to look better on DVD just because they were originally shot in PAL, which is more information than America's NTSC (the exact same standard used when Hitler opened the Olympics in 1936). Until HD, we never changed. The rest of the world did.

[Stressfactor]

I wouldn't recommend watching them on an HD TV though. A friend of mine expressed some interest in "Classic" Doctor Who and mentioned she had watched (and liked) part of the recent Fourth Series. So, of course, I figured if she liked David Tennant the best choice to introduce her to the Classics was with Tom Baker (Pyramids of Mars).

Didn't look *too* bad on her husband's large screen, HD system mind but it did look a little wonky.

[Ontir]

I watch all sorts of WHO on my HDTV and it all looks fine. The old PAL stuff looks like old PAL and the NTSC stuff looks the same as any other old NTSC (albeit better in black and white), but the new stuff looks fantastic.

[ChrisIII]

Anybody played Spore? Apparentally at some point in the game the TARDIS can be found :)

[Robo Ape]

It seems DT is keen to make a Who movie.

Link (http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/a129933/report-tennant-keen-on-dr-who-film.html).

[rick]

It seems DT is keen to make a Who movie.

Link (http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/cult/a129933/report-tennant-keen-on-dr-who-film.html).


Honestly I'm glad to see that Dave isn't necessarily in all that big a rush to ditch the Doc.

Just because he can regenerate, doesn't mean that we need to rush into a new one every few years.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

I want to start watching Doctor Who (I saw a few episodes and liked it, then I heard the AWESOME theme song, and I'm hooked)


Where should I start?

[king mob]

Honestly I'm glad to see that Dave isn't necessarily in all that big a rush to ditch the Doc.

Just because he can regenerate, doesn't mean that we need to rush into a new one every few years.


No, but I'd hate to see Tennant end up like Tom Baker in his last year when he looked tired & fed up all the time. I doubt he'll last as long as he did, but if he stays for another year then the BBC will consider that to be a bonus.

[king mob]

I want to start watching Doctor Who (I saw a few episodes and liked it, then I heard the AWESOME theme song, and I'm hooked)


Where should I start?

With the new series I'd start at the beginning otherwise you'll be puzzled by the end of the 4th series.

As for the music..

http://www.delia-derbyshire.org/

[Sanagi]

I want to start watching Doctor Who (I saw a few episodes and liked it, then I heard the AWESOME theme song, and I'm hooked)


Where should I start?
The new series is not that hard a show to get into at any point, really. But if you start at the beginning of a season you'll get a good introduction.

I wouldn't reccomend jumping into the classic series (pre-2005) right away. There are good things to be found there, but it shows its age a lot.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

The new series is not that hard a show to get into at any point, really. But if you start at the beginning of a season you'll get a good introduction.

I wouldn't reccomend jumping into the classic series (pre-2005) right away. There are good things to be found there, but it shows its age a lot.

Ok, thanks.

I also saw some comics based on Doctor Who. Are they good?

[Sanagi]

Ok, thanks.

I also saw some comics based on Doctor Who. Are they good?
There have been some decent comics based on Doctor Who, but generally I tend to avoid stuff beyond the TV series as it can get fanficky pretty fast.

I have a 6th Doctor collection that's pretty good, though - probably better than anything that happened during that rather bleak era of the TV show.

[Zero Hunter]

Ok, thanks.

I also saw some comics based on Doctor Who. Are they good?

There is a new series out now called Doctor Who: The Forgotten. If you really want kind of a crash coarse in all the different version of the Doctor it would be a good book to pick up. It is about the current Doctor losing all his memories of his past selves, and having to remember them. The first issue was great and the writer really nails not only the current Doctor, but also the first Doctor in the flashback. Issue 2 looks like it will have some flashbacks of the 2nd and 3rd Doctors.

Great writing and great art.

[Ontir]

Honestly I'm glad to see that Dave isn't necessarily in all that big a rush to ditch the Doc.

Just because he can regenerate, doesn't mean that we need to rush into a new one every few years.

Exactly! That's one of the main differences between British and American TV. If "Who" were an American series Eccleston would've been signed in blood to 7 seasons! :evilsmile: The faster we go through Doctors, the faster they have to come up with some way around the 12 Regeneration rule.

Also, the Doctor is supposed to be over 900 years old, but if that's the case, his first body must've lived a dull life 'til Susan's teachers followed her home. He's gone through 9 more bodies in just 45 years!

[ChrisIII]

Doctor Who is one of those shows that's fairly easy to get into-you only read to know the basic premise, and that the style of the show tends to change from time (Usually based on who is producing or script editing).


Basically, the concept behind the show is that the Doctor is a time-travelling exile from his own people (Although in the new series, he's the last of his own people). His people, the time lords, have mastered time and space travel and basically their ships-called TARDISes-can go anywhere in the universe at any point in time. However they choose mainly to observe and document events, whereas the Doctor has decided to get involved.
Like other time lords, the Doctor has the ability to regenerate when a body is near death. Although the Doctor's basic memories, sense of humor and heroic ideals remain the same, his personality and tastes are often different. Currently the Doctor is in his tenth incarnation.
The Doctor often travels with human companions, although he has included aliens and robots as part of his entourage.
He also has enemies. Chief among them are the Daleks, a race of mutated blobs in armored shells who seek to rule or eliminate all other life. There's also the Cybermen, who have exchanged their human bodies for metallic ones, and the renegade time lord the Master. Although these bad guys recur often, there are several other nemesises.
The original Doctor WHo series ran for 26 years and through seven lead actors. A TV movie starring Paul Mcgann as the Eighth Doctor aired in the mid 90's, but it wasn't until nearly a decade later that the series returned properly.


It should be noted that the original series and the new series are the same continuity, although with some tweaks here and there. It's kind of like the classic Star Trek and Star Trek TNG: The universe has changed, the special effects are nicer, but the basic concept of the Doctor is still there.



There are a lot of classic WHO DVDs. Here's what I consider the best out of what it is currently out on DVD:

William Hartnell: The Aztecs


Patrick Troughton:Tomb of the Cybermen


Jon Pertwee: The Green Death


Tom Baker:Genesis of the Daleks


Peter Davison: Caves of Androzani (His last story, but his best IMO)


Colin Baker: Revelation of the Daleks


Sylvestor McCoy: Curse of Fenric

[Robo Ape]

The new comic series after a good start has soon descended to fairly poor quality, not so much in art, which is still OK but certainly very much in the writing department.

[Stressfactor]

The new comic series after a good start has soon descended to fairly poor quality, not so much in art, which is still OK but certainly very much in the writing department.

Whoa, whoa, who WHOA! Not so much.

Admittedly, Gary Russell's six issue run was a mess. It had several different artists -- many of whom were not to my taste -- and the story itself was childish at first and only came together at the end

BUT...

Right now they are running a six issue mini-series called Doctor Who: The Forgotten which is being written by Tony Lee with art by Pia Guerra - who won awards for her artwork in the comic book series Y: The Last Man. Now so far The Forgotten is starting out as a good, solid story. Only one issue out so far so it's a little hard to judge but Lee has a good feel for the voices of both the 10th Doctor and Martha AND he did something that is VERY difficult to do -- he absolutely NAILED the voices of the First Doctor, Barbara and Ian in a flashback story. I serious could HEAR the voices of the actors saying the dialogue in the comic book -- it was that on target.

As Zero Hunter said -- the premise of the series is that the 10th Doctor and Martha have been brought to a strange museum. They have no memory of how they have been brought there, they don't even really know where *there* is, and there is no sign of the TARDIS anywhere.

The Doctor soon realizes that every exhibit in the museum has some connection to him and his past adventures. In fact, in one room he finds a display of the outfits he wore in each of his previous incarnations. This disturbs him because, as he tells Martha, the only people who knew about all of his past lives were the Time Lords and all the Time Lords are supposed to be dead! there is someone though -- someone who is in control of this museum -- someone who is watching the Doctor and Martha and this someone suddenly manages to steal all of the Doctor's memories!

The Doctor can now no longer clearly remember anything that happened before he regenerated into his 10th form! Without these memories he begins to weaken and feel ill and Martha pushes him to remember. When she brings him the cane he carried in his first incarnation to try to job his memory he succeeds in recalling an adventure from his early days traveling with Ian, Barbara and Susan.


It looks as thought the mini-series is going to follow this format -- with the main story being the 10th Doctor and Martha trying to figure out where they are, who has brought them there, for what reason, and trying to escape. Meanwhile, there will be other, little, self-contained flashback stories as the Doctor reclaims his lost memories by recalling untold adventures he had in each of his previous incarnations.

Ignore the cover art on this series, though -- the cover artist is NOT the same person who is doing the interior art.

[ChrisIII]

Doctor Who comics are pretty decent, although not quite as good as the novels. They're also kind of hard to fit into continuity with the series, since they often feature the Doctor travelling alone (Although there are 'gaps' where this could happen in the TV series).


Doctor Who comics until recently were for the most part serialized in digests, newspapers or magazines (Kind of like the show itself, which during the classic series was a serial with each story usually lasting 4-6 episodes for the most part). Marvel had a Doctor Who monthly in the 80s but it was just color reprints of the British magazine stuff, IDW's title is pretty much brand new stuff.

In additin to the comics there's also novels and audio dramas. Some of the novels and audios allow some of the less popular Doctors from the TV show a second chance, as they are mainly produced by people with a greater respect for the show than the 80's production team. Colin Baker/The Sixth Doctor in particular has profited immensely from this.

[Ontir]

The problem I have with the comics is that I never like the artwork. They need to get someone like Travis Charest or Tony Harris to spruce them up!

[Stressfactor]

Allow me to repeat... Pia. Guerra. :biggrin:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/preview2.php?image=previews/idw/doctorwho/DW101.jpg

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/preview2.php?image=previews/idw/doctorwho/DW102.jpg

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/preview2.php?image=previews/idw/doctorwho/DW104-05.jpg

[Zero Hunter]

The problem I have with the comics is that I never like the artwork. They need to get someone like Travis Charest or Tony Harris to spruce them up!

Usually I don't really like the art in these sort of books either, but like Stressfactor said Pia Guerra just kicks but on Doctor Who: The Forgotten.

[ChrisIII]

Some of the earlier Doctor Who comics were done by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons, interestingly enough. (Although not necesarilly together). Alan mainly did back-ups featuring Doctor Who monsters, but apparentally he's not a huge fan of the franchise beyond Hartnell.

[king mob]

The problem I have with the comics is that I never like the artwork. They need to get someone like Travis Charest or Tony Harris to spruce them up!

Dave Gibbons, John Ridgeway, Steve Dillon, Frank Hampson & Don Harley are just some of the names to have turned out wonderful Who strips over the years. One thing Who's always had is a stream of great artists working on comic strips.

[king mob]

Some of the earlier Doctor Who comics were done by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons, interestingly enough. (Although not necesarilly together). Alan mainly did back-ups featuring Doctor Who monsters, but apparentally he's not a huge fan of the franchise beyond Hartnell.

A lot of Moore's ideas have been absorbed by RTD into the new series, plus it's worth mentioning that US reprints of Moore's Who work resulted in Moore's falling out with Marvel.

[Ontir]

Dave Gibbons, John Ridgeway, Steve Dillon, Frank Hampson & Don Harley are just some of the names to have turned out wonderful Who strips over the years. One thing Who's always had is a stream of great artists working on comic strips.

I don't know Ridgeway, Hampson, or Harley, at least not just by seeing their names. I've looked at Who comics now and again for many years and I've not seen any that really grabbed me. The same is true of the new books, but I will say I'm incredibly picky about art. If I like it I like it. If not, I can't bear it.

[Kid Kamikaze10]

Why does it seem like the fourth Doctor is referenced a lot by other shows whenever a Doctor Who reference is used?

Is he the most popular Doctor? If not, who is?


And who's your favorite Doctor?


I'm gonna see if I can find the comics...

[Ontir]

Tom Baker, the 4th Doctor, played the part longer than any other actor. He's very tall and with his lengthy scarf, floppy hat, and long coat was very visually striking. Baker's Doctor also had a child's wonderment which drew the audience in. I don't think anyone has been so beloved as Baker's Doctor, and he may never be surpassed in terms of audience acceptance.

[Stressfactor]

Why does it seem like the fourth Doctor is referenced a lot by other shows whenever a Doctor Who reference is used?

Is he the most popular Doctor? If not, who is?


And who's your favorite Doctor?


I'm gonna see if I can find the comics...

Keep in mind that, at least in America, the 1970's was when Doctor Who finally made it to our shores and the first episodes shown were the Tom Baker ones. Ergo, for a lot of Americans, Tom Baker was the first actor in the role that they had exposure to.

There is a trend among fans of many stripes that you remain fondest of the characters you had your first exposure with. For example, for a lot of comic book fans they often retain a fondness for the first comic book character they read. For many Who fans the first Doctor they are exposed to is often their favorite so, for many of a certain age, their first Doctor was Tom Baker.

This is, however, by no means an absolute rule. For example, my "first Doctor" was Tom Baker also but my favorite Doctor has become Patrick Troughton.

[Ontir]

Keep in mind that, at least in America, the 1970's was when Doctor Who finally made it to our shores and the first episodes shown were the Tom Baker ones. Ergo, for a lot of Americans, Tom Baker was the first actor in the role that they had exposure to.

There is a trend among fans of many stripes that you remain fondest of the characters you had your first exposure with. For example, for a lot of comic book fans they often retain a fondness for the first comic book character they read. For many Who fans the first Doctor they are exposed to is often their favorite so, for many of a certain age, their first Doctor was Tom Baker.

This is, however, by no means an absolute rule. For example, my "first Doctor" was Tom Baker also but my favorite Doctor has become Patrick Troughton.

...uhm, No. Yes, it was the 70's, but the first episode I saw was John Pertwee's first episode. His entire run was aired on PBS, then the Baker episodes aired.

[Stressfactor]

...uhm, No. Yes, it was the 70's, but the first episode I saw was John Pertwee's first episode. His entire run was aired on PBS, then the Baker episodes aired.

My mistake.

From Wikipedia: The BBC series was originally sold to television stations in the United States in 1972, with Time-Life Television syndicating selected episodes of Jon Pertwee's time as the Doctor. Unfortunately, the series did not do well, despite an interesting write-up some years earlier in TV Guide. Apparently, program directors of the commercial television stations that picked up the Jon Pertwee series did not know that the program was an episodic serial, and so it was constantly being shuffled about in the programming schedules. In 1978, Tom Baker's first four seasons as the Doctor were sold to PBS stations across the United States. At least four commercial stations (WOR in New York, KPRC-TV in Houston, WTVQ in Lexington, KY and WVEC in Norfolk, VA) also aired the show for a few years. This time, though, Time-Life was ready to have the Doctor poised for American consumption, by having stage and screen actor Howard Da Silva read prerecorded prologues and teasers for the next episode which would inform the viewer as to what was going on. To accommodate the teasers (which were made out of clips from the next episode), up to three minutes of original material was cut from each episode. Originally mistaken for a British comedy (along the lines of Doctor in the House, Good Neighbors, Benny Hill, and Monty Python),[citation needed] PBS program planners took the show at face value, but it soon achieved cult status.

So yes, it did start with the Pertwee eps but it achieved far more success with the Baker eps.

Every American Who fan I've run into who is about my age (30's) has said that their first exposure was the Bakers with the Da Silva teasers and recaps.

Also, I think Baker tapped into something with the more free-wheeling 70's. Plus, his performances really were brilliant.

[Ontir]

Aaaah... that explains it. I'm no longer in my thirties. :evilsmile:

I first encountered Doctor Who on WXXI on a sunday afternoon. My Mom was taking her usual nap after church, my Dad was getting lunch for my brother, himself and me, and I turned PBS on. My brother quickly lost interest, but Dad and I watched. I then found out it aired every evening at 6 pm, and I've been hooked ever since.

[Toku King]

Tom Baker, the 4th Doctor, played the part longer than any other actor. He's very tall and with his lengthy scarf, floppy hat, and long coat was very visually striking. Baker's Doctor also had a child's wonderment which drew the audience in. I don't think anyone has been so beloved as Baker's Doctor, and he may never be surpassed in terms of audience acceptance.

He was good, but I always found his Doctor to be quite nasty to the people around him, which kinda turned me off at times.

My favorite Doctors of all time(in no order, of course) are the Tenth(Tennant), Ninth(Eccleston), and Third(Pertwee) Doctors.
Honorable mentions go to the First, Fourth, and Fifth Doctors.
The two worst are the Sixth and Eighth Doctors.

[Sanagi]

A lot of Moore's ideas have been absorbed by RTD into the new series, plus it's worth mentioning that US reprints of Moore's Who work resulted in Moore's falling out with Marvel.
I've wanted to see those stories for a long time. Are they at all easy to get ahold of?

[ChrisIII]

It also helps that Tom Baker's first three seasons are considered the golden age of WHO by many fans. Although many of the serials in this era were somewhat deriative of horror films, they had their own Whovian style to them.

Unfortunately, Mary Whitehouse, a watchdog lady, complained and the show got handed to another producer (Graham Williams) who toned the budget and violence down considerably. Still, there's some classics in his era, most notably City of Death.

Tom's final season, which was then produced by the controversial John Nathan Turner, attempted to return to the more mature nature of the earlier stories. However, things didn't work out between him and Tom and Tom left.

[Stressfactor]

Aaaah... that explains it. I'm no longer in my thirties. :evilsmile:

I first encountered Doctor Who on WXXI on a sunday afternoon. My Mom was taking her usual nap after church, my Dad was getting lunch for my brother, himself and me, and I turned PBS on. My brother quickly lost interest, but Dad and I watched. I then found out it aired every evening at 6 pm, and I've been hooked ever since.

Plus, you're close to the East Coast -- East and West Coasts in America get everything before us blighters in the middle. You'll notice that the Wikipedia article mentions that a lot of PBS stations in the middle of the country didn't start carrying Who until the mid to later 70's.

Technically, my first exposure to Doctor Who was when I was a kid -- visiting an uncle in Southern Illinois for the summer. It was a rainy day so no playing outside or boating on the lake or swimming and I was channel surfing on the TV (broadcast -- no cable at this time remember) and, since there wasn't any cartoons on I stopped on this funny looking program. I recognized that the accents were British but as for the rest of it... I couldn't really make any sense of it -- there was a guy with a long scarf, a pretty girl in a white dress, a robot dog, this square, kind of crystally-like thing that had immense power, and, at the end of the episode something about being able to tell the difference between a White Guardian and a Black Guardian. Considering the era I think I must have been watching this on the Lexington, KY station mentioned in the Wikipedia article above... Either way -- the show was kind of interesting but I didn't understand a darn thing that was going on.

Now, by now, most Classic Who fans will recognize what I saw. As for me... It was another several years before I ran into Doctor Who on my PBS station back home. Eventually I figured out that what I had seen as a kid was a Tom Baker episode but, weirdly enough, it wasn't until this year that I realized what I had seen was the very last episode of "The Armageddon Factor" which, in turn, was the last serial of "The Key to Time".... NO WONDER I COULDN'T UNDERSTAND ANYTHING!!! Since becoming a Doctor Who fan I've realized that coming in on the last episode of Armageddon Factor is something akin to never having read ANY of Tolkien's books, not seeing the first two Fellowship of the rings movies, and then going into "The Return of the King" during the last 45 minutes of the movie and expecting to understand it all.

[hayabusa]

Before the new series, all I knew of Doctor Who was that it was once an extremely long running show in Britain and they had a unique concept of writing out the main character when the actor left but still having the same main character afterwards. I, unfortunately, never saw the original show on PBS.

[king mob]

I don't know Ridgeway, Hampson, or Harley, at least not just by seeing their names. I've looked at Who comics now and again for many years and I've not seen any that really grabbed me. The same is true of the new books, but I will say I'm incredibly picky about art. If I like it I like it. If not, I can't bear it.


Hampson essentially created the modern British adventure strip when he came up with Dan Dare, a character whose stories have often been plundered (Davros is just a massive rip off of the Mekon) by Who.

Harley drew Pertwee Who strips for years & Ridgeway (probably best known with Americans fir his Hellblazer work) turned out some great work featuring the 5th & 6th Doctor.

[king mob]

I've wanted to see those stories for a long time. Are they at all easy to get ahold of?

No, they're at the heart of a very long & bitter dispute between Moore, Marvel UK (as it was) & Marvel US. The original Doctor Who Weekly editions go for about 6 quid, at least, an issue whenever they actually surface.

[Stressfactor]

No, they're at the heart of a very long & bitter dispute between Moore, Marvel UK (as it was) & Marvel US. The original Doctor Who Weekly editions go for about 6 quid, at least, an issue whenever they actually surface.

Ah, but IDW seems to have gotten a hold of the original strips now and they're putting them out as monthly comics here in the states with all new, modern digital recoloring and high quality paper stock. They're under the title "Doctor Who Classics".

[Ontir]

Plus, you're close to the East Coast -- East and West Coasts in America get everything before us blighters in the middle. You'll notice that the Wikipedia article mentions that a lot of PBS stations in the middle of the country didn't start carrying Who until the mid to later 70's.

LOL :tongue: I NEVER imagined I'd ever consider Rochester, NY cutting edge! Now I'm on the west coast and we get everything first, except technology. Clearwire and such is available in Rochester, but not in LA.

Now, by now, most Classic Who fans will recognize what I saw. As for me... It was another several years before I ran into Doctor Who on my PBS station back home. Eventually I figured out that what I had seen as a kid was a Tom Baker episode but, weirdly enough, it wasn't until this year that I realized what I had seen was the very last episode of "The Armageddon Factor" which, in turn, was the last serial of "The Key to Time".... NO WONDER I COULDN'T UNDERSTAND ANYTHING!!! Since becoming a Doctor Who fan I've realized that coming in on the last episode of Armageddon Factor is something akin to never having read ANY of Tolkien's books, not seeing the first two Fellowship of the rings movies, and then going into "The Return of the King" during the last 45 minutes of the movie and expecting to understand it all.

My experience was similar. The first episode I ever saw was Pertwee's first story but not the first episode of that story, though I didn't know it at the time. It was only recently that I found out what I'd been watching. It wasn't until we were into the Davison episodes that I found out there were two Doctors before Pertwee.

[king mob]

Ah, but IDW seems to have gotten a hold of the original strips now and they're putting them out as monthly comics here in the states with all new, modern digital recoloring and high quality paper stock. They're under the title "Doctor Who Classics".

I know IDW are reprinting the Pat Mills/John Wagner/Dave Gibbons strips but have they got the Moore strips which were back up strips in Doctor Who Weekly?

[Stressfactor]

I know IDW are reprinting the Pat Mills/John Wagner/Dave Gibbons strips but have they got the Moore strips which were back up strips in Doctor Who Weekly?

Not as of yet -- but I'm not sure what pattern IDW is following here. They *seem* to be going chronologically but it looks like in October they're going to jump ahead and do a trade of Grant Morrison's stuff for the 6th and 7th Doctor eras.

It kind of looks like IDW is ignoring the back-up stories completely -- no matter who wrote them.

I can't even find references to Moore's stuff on the Doctor Who Reference Guide website -- my usual source for info on the comics.

[Sanagi]

Not as of yet -- but I'm not sure what pattern IDW is following here. They *seem* to be going chronologically but it looks like in October they're going to jump ahead and do a trade of Grant Morrison's stuff for the 6th and 7th Doctor eras.

It kind of looks like IDW is ignoring the back-up stories completely -- no matter who wrote them.

I can't even find references to Moore's stuff on the Doctor Who Reference Guide website -- my usual source for info on the comics.
That's part of what intrigues me about it so much... That Alan Moore crossed paths with Doctor Who and no one seems to know anything about it. It's like if nobody ever talked about Castle of Cagliostro. (http://nausicaa.net/miyazaki/lupin/)

[mattx110]

That's part of what intrigues me about it so much... That Alan Moore crossed paths with Doctor Who and no one seems to know anything about it. It's like if nobody ever talked about Castle of Cagliostro. (http://nausicaa.net/miyazaki/lupin/)
Alan Moore is the Valeyard!

[king mob]

Not as of yet -- but I'm not sure what pattern IDW is following here. They *seem* to be going chronologically but it looks like in October they're going to jump ahead and do a trade of Grant Morrison's stuff for the 6th and 7th Doctor eras.

It kind of looks like IDW is ignoring the back-up stories completely -- no matter who wrote them.

I can't even find references to Moore's stuff on the Doctor Who Reference Guide website -- my usual source for info on the comics.

I'd be very surprised if IDW manage to get the rights to reprint Moore's Who work as much of his Marvel UK work, with the exception of his Captain Britain work, hasn't been reprinted.

Thankfully there are fan sites who can help. (http://fourcolorheroes.home.insightbb.com/free.html)

[Stressfactor]

Relating to... well, nothing really but......

Spotted Jelly Babies in a store here in America that carries stuff from around the world. After years of Tom Baker's "Would you like a Jelly Baby?" I decided to get up the nerve to buy a bag and see what these things were like.....

Ummm.... yeah..... Weird. And a little too sweet for my taste.

[king mob]

Today's Guardian has quote an interesting piece about Russell Davies.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/tvandradioblog/2008/sep/16/television1

It's incredibly revealing & encouraging that Tennant has the power of veto over stories & that he had the sense to kill off that JK Rowling idea.

[Stressfactor]

If they keep making the Doctor younger pretty soon fans will end up with the Doctor Who version of Smallville.... and really.... no one wants to see that.....

[king mob]

Moffat has already made it clear that Tennant's replacement will be older which is a fine idea as an older Doctor will be a change after the youthful Tennant. I doubt they'll go older than 50 as that means they'll probably only tie an actor to a two or three year contract, but I'm still keen on Robert Carlyle, though I do like the idea of Jason Flemyng, he could work.

I do like this post from the comments of that Guardian article.

No. He was the right actor at the right time, and Tennant could not have done what he did. And in explanation, I offer three moments.

1. From the first episode, the moment Rose enters the TARDIS. Tennant's Doctor would have been far too matey. Eccleston came across as odder, which is precisely what he needed to be.

2. From "Dalek", the scene in the cell where he goes from being, for the first time in the series, visibly terrified, to actually frothing at the mouth in vicious, righteous anger when telling the thing that he, personally, destroyed the Daleks. Very much NOT the Doctor of old.

3. From "Parting of the Ways", the look on his face the moment after he's fooled Rose into getting into the TARDIS. Everyone, viewer included, believes him when he manically talks about there being something he can do... and as soon as Rose can't see him, all the energy goes out of him, his face sets hard, and the viewer suddenly realises that actually, he doesn't have a cunning plan. He's going to die, he just didn't want her to.



Spot on & a reminder of just how good Eccleston was and how it would have been nice to see him stay another series at least.

[king mob]

RTD's book has had excerpts printed in The Times & it is indeed facinating reading. It's amazing to read that the Dennis Hopper rumours were actually true & that he'd decided to leave Who before the third series was broadcast. The tales of BBC politics are interesting as well.

I might have to pick this up when it comes out next week, until then here's the links.


http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/tv_and_radio/article4759150.ece

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/tv_and_radio/article4768289.ece

[Alan Lynch]

Peter Fincham doesn't come out of this at all well. And I agree that the JK Rowling idea is hideous; well done David Tennant.

[Typo Lad]

Oh my... the little tidbit about this year's Christmas Special sounds good

[Alan Lynch]

Oh my... the little tidbit about this year's Christmas Special sounds good
Doesn't it though? I think that's the first bit of real information I've read about it too. All I knew was Cybermen, Victorian era and David Morrissey. This sounds way better than Jesus on the Titanic.

[king mob]

Peter Fincham doesn't come out of this at all well. And I agree that the JK Rowling idea is hideous; well done David Tennant.

It's a horrible idea & shows exactly why it's right that RTD departs for other things, though oddly enough I'm going to miss his insane enthusiasm that everything on the programme is 'brilliant' even when it obviously isn't.

[king mob]

Oh my... the little tidbit about this year's Christmas Special sounds good

It does indeed.


Assuming for a minute that it won't be another RTD cop-out like this years fake regeneration, then I'd be very, very chuffed with Morrisey being Doctor 11.

[Toku King]

Alan Rickman would rock as the Doctor.

http://j9marshall.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/a-rickman.jpg

[Stressfactor]

I gotta say, yeah, the Christmas special is sounding quite good. Since I'm in the U.S., though, seeing it could prove complicated.... (and illegal).

[marshal99]

Alan Rickman would rock as the Doctor.

http://j9marshall.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/a-rickman.jpg

Let rickman grow a goatee and he'll be perfect as the master. I always thought he's better as a villain.

[Ontir]

I think that picture is pretty old.
He'd have been fantastic 15 years ago, but I'm not sure now.
I like the younger, more spry casting of the new series.
I'm also not eager to see the Doctor go back to some erudite accent.
The more "earthy" Doctors are more appealing to me, at least for now.

I'd LOVE to see Jeremy Irons as the Master!

[mattx110]

I gotta say, yeah, the Christmas special is sounding quite good. Since I'm in the U.S., though, seeing it could prove complicated.... (and illegal).
I'm thinking of going to Wales for Christmas and new years.

[Stressfactor]

I think that picture is pretty old.
He'd have been fantastic 15 years ago, but I'm not sure now.
I like the younger, more spry casting of the new series.
I'm also not eager to see the Doctor go back to some erudite accent.
The more "earthy" Doctors are more appealing to me, at least for now.

I'd LOVE to see Jeremy Irons as the Master!

I just don't want to see the actor playing the Doctor go below the age of.... say 25. I think it would take something away and might tempt the writers to make the Doctor's personality match the exterior.

Personally, I think it might be a little funny, if they did go really young on another actor, for the writers to write this young-looking character with a crotchety old man personality. Imagine a guy in his 20's with a bit of the "You young whippersnappers get off my lawn!" attitude.

I like Tennant but I do occasionally miss those little personality reminders that the Doctor is older and wiser than he looks. Even Tom Baker, for all his silliness, had those moments when he could look like the weight of centuries were bearing down. He could also get a little tetchy about his age. The whole opening bit in "Pyramids of Mars" between the Doctor and Sarah Jane about his age sounded just like a buddy of mine who bemoans the fact that, now that he's past 40, he's approaching middle age.

[Deathstroke]

Let rickman grow a goatee and he'll be perfect as the master. I always thought he's better as a villain.

Die Hard and Harry Potter have pretty much typecast him as a perfect villain.

[ChrisIII]

I've been watching I, Claudius recently-it seems almost everyone in the production has been on WHO at one point or another, with the exception of Patrick Stewart and John Hurt. Of course, they're both BBC productions so this is hardly suprising.

I'm guessing that the New series potrayal of the Master is a nod of sorts to that series's Caligula....

[Ontir]

I just don't want to see the actor playing the Doctor go below the age of.... say 25. I think it would take something away and might tempt the writers to make the Doctor's personality match the exterior.

Personally, I think it might be a little funny, if they did go really young on another actor, for the writers to write this young-looking character with a crotchety old man personality. Imagine a guy in his 20's with a bit of the "You young whippersnappers get off my lawn!" attitude.

I like Tennant but I do occasionally miss those little personality reminders that the Doctor is older and wiser than he looks. Even Tom Baker, for all his silliness, had those moments when he could look like the weight of centuries were bearing down. He could also get a little tetchy about his age. The whole opening bit in "Pyramids of Mars" between the Doctor and Sarah Jane about his age sounded just like a buddy of mine who bemoans the fact that, now that he's past 40, he's approaching middle age.

I think Tennant has shown us the weight of his mantel on more than a few occasions: Dealing with those creatures that were threatening Rose's Dad and all reality. Having to let Rose go in the first place. What he was forced to do with the Family of Blood, and of course not being able to heal Donna.

[SPAfreak]

I think Tennant has shown us the weight of his mantel on more than a few occasions: Dealing with those creatures that were threatening Rose's Dad and all reality.

If you're talking about the episode with the wedding then that was Eccleston.

Speaking of under 25, did they ever de-age the Doctor to kiddie age back in the day?

[Stressfactor]

Speaking of under 25, did they ever de-age the Doctor to kiddie age back in the day?

Nope. They managed to avoid THAT sci-fi cliche. Although they did do one story where the Doctor and his companions were shrunk down to the size of insects. Apparently, some sci-fi cliches just cannot be avoided.

As for Tennant showing the weight of the world... It just always seemed so PERSONAL -- I mean all of his bits were always related to something happening to one of his beloved companions. There just wasn't as much of him going on about THE UNIVERSE. Some good Baker examples: The aforementioned early scene in "Pyramids of Mars" where he talks about how old he is getting and the fact that he "walks in eternity". Even though his comments are somewhat directed AT Sarah Jane they are not ABOUT her. Later in that same episode Sarah Jane takes him to task for not showing any emotion over the fact that a man's dead body is lying not more than five feet from him and the Doctor calmly informs her that five other men have also been killed in the affair so far but he's not going to fret himself over them because Suhtek is the bigger threat. Then there's "Seeds of Doom" in which the Doctor refuses to help cut the arm off an infected man -- insisting that the humans there must fend for themselves. "The Horror of Fang Rock" the Doctor sees a good seven people killed by the Rutan and, again, he focuses on the damage that will be done by the Rutan -- not on the loss of seven lives.

Going outside the Baker realm -- In "Evil of the Daleks" the Doctor calmly admits that he would sacrifice all their lives -- Jamie, Victoria, VIctoria's father, even the creepy Maxtible -- to keep the Daleks from achieving their aims.

The Doctor could, at times, have a very definite lack of humanity that emphasized his alienness. The Doctor was often very willing to sacrifice others in the grander scheme of things and not shed a tear along the way.

I'm not saying I'd want a steady diet of such but I do miss a bit of that harder edge, that manipulation. Tennant and his "No second chances" just isn't quite the same.

[king mob]

I'm thinking of going to Wales for Christmas and new years.

Where abouts?

[king mob]

Die Hard and Harry Potter have pretty much typecast him as a perfect villain.

That's only to an American audience. Rickman is a well respected theatrical actor & as well known for films like Truely, Madly, Deeply as he is for his American work.

[Deathstroke]

That's only to an American audience. Rickman is a well respected theatrical actor & as well known for films like Truely, Madly, Deeply as he is for his American work.

Hey I loved him in Sense & Sensibility.

[AlistairCrane]

Season Four just premiered in Canada last night.

God, I hate Catherine Tate.

On the other hand, ROSE! ROSE!! ROSE!!!

[Toku King]

Catherine Tate's character Donna is extremely annoying at first, but you begin to like her.
Rose was awesome.

[ChrisIII]

Apparentally the E-space trilogy is coming soon to DVD, along with Battlefield.

[tricksterpup]

I think that picture is pretty old.
He'd have been fantastic 15 years ago, but I'm not sure now.
I like the younger, more spry casting of the new series.
I'm also not eager to see the Doctor go back to some erudite accent.
The more "earthy" Doctors are more appealing to me, at least for now.

I'd LOVE to see Jeremy Irons as the Master!

In all actuality I would love to see the Doctor be played by an older actor, one in his 50s or Early 60s, now that would be cool.

[mattx110]

That's only to an American audience. Rickman is a well respected theatrical actor & as well known for films like Truely, Madly, Deeply as he is for his American work.
He's the definitive Jacques. And I'm pretty sure he did Iago.

Anyone seen Closet Land?

I'm hunting for it.

[Stressfactor]

along with Battlefield.

Yay!

"So you recognize me Brigadier?" "Who ELSE would it be?"

"Try me."

"I'm getting sick and tired of hearing about your mother."

"Is this the best your world can offer?" "No, I'm just trying to do the best I can."

"Get off my world."

And of course..... BLAM! :biggrin:

As stories go it's fair to middling but there really are some good lines and the Brig gets to be pretty awesome.

[Matt]

Yes, Battlefield was very much an excellent final (televised) adventure for the Brigadier.

[Toku King]

Apparentally the E-space trilogy is coming soon to DVD, along with Battlefield.

Sorry for sounding dumb, but what's E-Space?

Also, though I have seen many Doctor Who serials, there are still a ton I have not seen yet. Which ones would you all recommend to me?

[Toku King]

Apparentally the E-space trilogy is coming soon to DVD, along with Battlefield.

Sorry for sounding dumb, but what's E-Space?

Also, though I have seen many Doctor Who serials, there are still a ton I have not seen yet. Which ones would you all recommend to me?

[ChrisIII]

The E-space trilogy basically are three stories set during the final season of Tom Baker's era. They see the departure of Romana and K-9 Mark II and Adric joins the cast. Basically, the TARDIS ends up in another universe, where the rules are a bit different. First up is "Full Circle" which introduces Adric, second is "State of Decay" which pits the Doctor against Vampires, and finally there's "Warrior's Gate", which is a bizzare and experimental story where the Doctor finally escapes E-space.


As for recommendations, here's one for each classic Doctor:


First Doctor:

-The Aztecs. An entertaining story in which the Doctor and his companions are mistaken for Gods by the Aztecs, which leads to a moral quandary for one of his companions.


Second Doctor

-Tomb of the Cybermen: Dated, but still a fun romp with a lot of good Doctor moments.


Third Doctor

-The Green Death. Jo Grant's departure story has the Doctor and UNIT take on pollution, hypnotizing computers and giant maggots with the help of hippie scientists. Very 70's but a fun adventure.


Fourth Doctor

-Pyramid of Mars: The Doctor takes on an old Egyptian God who is in fact a destructive alien. Very much Who's take on the ancient astronaught genre.


Fifth Doctor

-Caves of Androzani: Peter Davison's final story, a well-directed adventure in which he must save himself and his companion from a local drug war and a deadly illness.


Sixth Doctor

-Vengeance on Varos-The Doctor finds himself in a deadly 'reality tv' adventure.


Seventh Doctor

-Curse of Fenric. A complicated story, but one that's one of the darker WHOs as the Doctor finds himself against an ancient evil and a viking curse.

[king mob]

Apparentally the E-space trilogy is coming soon to DVD, along with Battlefield.

Battlefield is out in December, the E-Space stuff in the New Year. Four to Doomsday is the latest DVD release, it's bloody awful & along with Warriors of the Deep is the worst Davison story out there.

[king mob]

Yes, Battlefield was very much an excellent final (televised) adventure for the Brigadier.

Though the Brig is back in the second series of Sarah Jane Adventures.

[Stressfactor]

As for recommendations, here's one for each classic Doctor: I'm going to disagree slightly here...


First Doctor:

-The Aztecs. An entertaining story in which the Doctor and his companions are mistaken for Gods by the Aztecs, which leads to a moral quandary for one of his companions. I agree, a good one, but another good one is "The Time Meddler". It's a fun story and Peter Butterworth is great as the Meddling Monk AND it holds a special place in Who history as being the first time another Time Lord was seen.


Second Doctor

-Tomb of the Cybermen: Dated, but still a fun romp with a lot of good Doctor moments. Again, I agree, but I think The Invasion is a better story -- even with the two parts animated. It's a fun romp, you get to see the Doctor being both deceptive clown and manipulative mastermind and even the companions get to show off a little bit as well.


Third Doctor

-The Green Death. Jo Grant's departure story has the Doctor and UNIT take on pollution, hypnotizing computers and giant maggots with the help of hippie scientists. Very 70's but a fun adventure. I agree but, again, I think Inferno is the slightly better story. There is still a little bit of an environmental moral with the drilling into the Earth's crust in search of new, cheaper, forms of energy because god forbid, humanity should actually have to start PAYING for what energy is worth. You have a scientist driven by hubris, the destruction of the world, and terrible, parallel universes. Despite some dodgy special effects and a story that is perhaps a little too long, Inferno still works like a punch to the gut.


Fourth Doctor

-Pyramid of Mars: The Doctor takes on an old Egyptian God who is in fact a destructive alien. Very much Who's take on the ancient astronaught genre. Again, yes, this one is a top fave story of mine as well. But I'd give a slight nudge to City of Death for the fun Paris location filming and a stellar supporting cast from Julian Glover as the evil Count Scarlioni to Tom Chadbon as the delightfully dim Duggan.


Fifth Doctor

-Caves of Androzani: Peter Davison's final story, a well-directed adventure in which he must save himself and his companion from a local drug war and a deadly illness. No arguement here. Although I am also fond of Enlightenment -- but that one isn't out on DVD yet.


Sixth Doctor

-Vengeance on Varos-The Doctor finds himself in a deadly 'reality tv' adventure. Wait, the Sixth Doctor HAD a good story?!


Seventh Doctor

-Curse of Fenric. A complicated story, but one that's one of the darker WHOs as the Doctor finds himself against an ancient evil and a viking curse.
Agreed. Followed in close order by Ghostlight

[Stressfactor]

Though the Brig is back in the second series of Sarah Jane Adventures.

Yeah, I'm going to want to see that but once again, being in the States will mean doing a little work to get it.

[Toku King]

-Pyramid of Mars: The Doctor takes on an old Egyptian God who is in fact a destructive alien. Very much Who's take on the ancient astronaught genre.

Could you recommend me another one? I've already seen "Pyramid Of Mars".

[Toku King]

Wait, the Sixth Doctor HAD a good story?!

I hated the Sixth Doctor, but I did indeed enjoy "Mark Of The Rani", though it's the only Sixth Doctor story I've ever seen(and I plan to keep it that way, since what carried the story were the Master and the Rani, and I doubt that they're in the other Sixth Doctor serials).

[Captain Jim]

Catherine Tate's character Donna is extremely annoying at first, but you begin to like her.

That seems to be the consensus. I remember lots of complaints at first, but by the end of the season, everyone was loving her.

[Stressfactor]

Could you recommend me another one? I've already seen "Pyramid Of Mars".

"City of Death"
"Talons of Weng Chiang"
"Horror of Fang Rock"

Are all very good Fourth Doctor stories.

[marshal99]

That seems to be the consensus. I remember lots of complaints at first, but by the end of the season, everyone was loving her.

Nope , still found her irritating and annoying.

[Matt]

Nope , still found her irritating and annoying.

Yes, as did/do I.

[rick]

Ah Donna was okay.

I mean she was no Romana or Ace, but I found her likable enough.

[Toku King]

That seems to be the consensus. I remember lots of complaints at first, but by the end of the season, everyone was loving her.

Love is a little too strong of a word.

[Alan Lynch]

Love is a little too strong of a word.
Not for me. I loved her by the end; probably my favourite regular companion of the new series.