Doctor Who *spoilers* [Archive] - Page 21 - Comic Book Resources Forums

king mob

07-26-2008, 06:30 AM

Doctor Who and Star Trek fans have been banned from having sci-fi merchandise signed by David Tennant and Patrick Stewart while they star in Hamlet.

The Royal Shakespeare Company (RSC) says only programmes and other Hamlet merchandise can be autographed at the stage door.

Tennant and Stewart are starring in the RSC production at the Courtyard Theatre, in Stratford.

The first preview begins later, and the play opens on 5 August.

Hamlet director, Gregory Doran, recently said fans arrive at the stage door with "bags" of Doctor Who merchandise for Tennant to autograph.

Disappointment

In a statement, the RSC said the level of interest in Tennant and Stewart meant "limits" had to be imposed.

"Due to the huge amount of interest in the RSC's current production of Hamlet, only Royal Shakespeare Company or production related memorabilia will be signed by members of the company," the RSC said.

"It is very flattering that there is so much interest in this production, but the sheer volume of requests means that we need to set some limits which will be as fair as possible for everyone.

"We apologise if this causes any disappointment."

Signs outlining the no autographs policy have reportedly been erected in the window at the stage door.

Tennant's performance in Hamlet has been hotly anticipated, with tickets exchanging hands on the internet auction site eBay for up to £215 each.

His previous RSC credits include Antipholus of Syracuse in The Comedy of Errors.

Stewart is best known for playing Captain Jean-Luc Picard in Star Trek, but has a string of critically acclaimed stage performances to his name.

He plays two roles in the RSC production of Hamlet - Claudius and the Ghost.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7523210.stm

Toku King

07-26-2008, 08:04 AM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7523210.stm

Sometimes fans are extremely inconsiderate. Tennant and Stewart have done more than just "Doctor Who" and "Star Trek", and when not doing those two shows they should be respected as such.
Man, I really wish I was back in the UK right now! I really wanted to see 'Hamlet'!

Ronald Bryan

07-26-2008, 10:52 AM

mattx110

07-26-2008, 11:30 AM

If the Face of Boe is coming back, then I don't think we'll be seeing too much more of Tennant. The Face told him that they'd meet again, and then no more. I think all future meetings would have to be with another Doctor.
Maybe it's the face of Boe from before he said that.

Davies seems to like having some kind of continuity when characters meet throughout time and space, Moffat likes doing it the opposite way.

Ontir

07-26-2008, 11:43 AM

Could be.

Anyone @ Comicon see the who-preview? Any word on companion or baddie?

ZT4

07-26-2008, 11:44 AM

"The Stolen Earth" was a great set up of the Daleks taking over, and the gang forming to fight them. As well as the shock ending (which Sci-Fi channel screwed by showing a ful preview of the last episode. Hey look, it's Tennant as the doctor the whole preview!) Damn you Sci-Fi for being a month behind.

They seriously did that? Wankers.

One thing I loved about the initial build-up to "Journey's End" was, the entire week, people were actually taking what we knew beyond the fourth season and applying it to "Oh, well, Tennant regenerates but splits into a seperate Tennant Doctor, and there keeping all of that from us", one even dared suggest some of the Chirstmas Special filming was actually intended for "Journey's End"...which isnt a bad idea really if you want to throw an audience off guard completly.

For once, the BBC really did get the desired affect for the finale, people seriously were second-guessing every spoiler rather than depend on them

mattx110

07-26-2008, 11:57 AM

Could be.

Anyone @ Comicon see the who-preview? Any word on companion or baddie?
I hear there's going to be an entire race of Cyber-women!

Ok, I made that up.

Klom invasion?

Ontir

07-26-2008, 12:19 PM

So... you know nothing. :evilsmile:

Ronald Bryan

07-26-2008, 12:22 PM

I hear there's going to be an entire race of Cyber-women!

Ok, I made that up.

Klom invasion?
You forgot that Ashton Kutcher is the new Doctor.

mattx110

07-26-2008, 12:23 PM

So... you know nothing. :evilsmile:
I didn't go to San Diego.

Also I have gotten St. James Place on my Monopoly board 3 games running.

ZT4

07-26-2008, 05:02 PM

New "minisode" airs on the official BBC Website tommorow guys, as it's the Doctor Who Prom. The official DW site spoils which character is returning

The Graske, so The Trickster isnt through with The Doctor yet

mattx110

07-26-2008, 05:09 PM

You forgot that Ashton Kutcher is the new Doctor.
Yeah, and they're bringing back Rose again, but recasting her as Noel Clarke with a wig on.

CBR News

07-26-2008, 05:24 PM

Dr. Who executive producer Julie Gardner gets writer Steven Moffet to talk about writing Dr. Who, how Americans hate foreigners and if it's possible to scare himself with a Dr. Who script.

http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=17441

Stressfactor

07-26-2008, 05:39 PM

DW site spoils which character is returning

The Graske, so The Trickster isnt through with The Doctor yet

Not necessarily since Sarah Jane said that the Graske were essentially mercenaries who worked for whomever paid them. While I wouldn't want to rule the Trickster out (mostly because I LOVE the character so) a Graske sighting isn't necessarily a sure sign of the Trickster

Tom Daylight

07-26-2008, 05:40 PM

It's Moffat. (Not to be confused with Georgia Moffett, Peter Davison's daughter and David Tennant's girlfriend, who plays Jenny.)

And technically "Doctor Who", but let's not split hairs :)

Deathstroke

07-26-2008, 05:54 PM

Okay, I freaking loved The Stolen Earth!

ZT4

07-26-2008, 06:30 PM

Not necessarily since Sarah Jane said that the Graske were essentially mercenaries who worked for whomever paid them. While I wouldn't want to rule the Trickster out (mostly because I LOVE the character so) a Graske sighting isn't necessarily a sure sign of the Trickster

It makes the more likely sense why The Graske is targeting The Doctor so soon after The Trickster's scheme with Donna fell apart, hell I think they'll be another name drop for The Trickster too.h

ZT4

07-26-2008, 06:46 PM

Toku King

07-26-2008, 06:52 PM

which Sci-Fi channel screwed by showing a ful preview of the last episode

I know, man! That really pissed me off.

Dr. Chaos

07-26-2008, 07:15 PM

One fan wondered if there was ever a joke that was deemed too British for the show.
Thats like asking an american writer if theres a joke deemed too american for a show.

Just such a strange question to me, Doctor Who is produced for British television, I don't think they're too caught up on other countries missing a joke.

Sometimes I have no idea what the hell Tenant is saying but he's still funny as hell.

mattx110

07-26-2008, 07:26 PM

SKY News just reported that the BBC arent renewing the contract with The Nation Estate, Moff doesnt want to use The Daleks or old companions (though he's a known fan of The Cybermen, so expect their overexposure next)
I'll believe it when I see it. But cool.

Stressfactor

07-26-2008, 09:36 PM

I didn't think Terry Nation created any companions....

Toku King

07-26-2008, 09:41 PM

ZT4

07-26-2008, 09:45 PM

That's absolute bull, and will never happen in a million years. Nobody in the right mind would actually do that.

Could be bull indeed, I'm just reporting what was on the channel.

I didn't think Terry Nation created any companions....

That portion has nothing to do with Nation. Moffat allegedly doesnt want to bring back old companions of any period.

I'd like to see at least two seasons with no Daleks or fanservice, as the show is perfectly capable of sustaining itself without that.

Ronald Bryan

07-26-2008, 09:49 PM

They can always get rights for the Daleks again, like they had to do the first time. But if Moffat doesn't want to use them for a while, why pay for them?

ZT4

07-26-2008, 09:59 PM

They can always get rights for the Daleks again, like they had to do the first time. But if Moffat doesn't want to use them for a while, why pay for them?

Precisly. Besides, it's not like The Daleks are going to have a complete drought, the license will be used by Big Finish if it wants to use them

mattx110

07-26-2008, 10:02 PM

Precisly. Besides, it's not like The Daleks are going to have a complete drought, the license will be used by Big Finish if it wants to use them
TOYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ben Morgan

07-26-2008, 10:44 PM

Yes! Cybermen!!!! :biggrin:

We got an extended trailer, from what I've heard :biggrin:

Ugoff

07-26-2008, 11:16 PM

I did not enjoy The Stolen Earth that much. To many sparks and stupid moments/choices by people. Just felt very been there done that especially when the Daleks showed up. Ugh. Enough w/ the Daleks. Loved seeing Sarah Jane! I must admit I really hated her show at first but it really grew on me. Go Sarah Jane! I dont know, there's more but now sure the way I would express how I feel would make sense. Hope the next episode is better.

JCAll

07-27-2008, 01:34 AM

That portion has nothing to do with Nation. Moffat allegedly doesnt want to bring back old companions of any period.

So I guess my hope of seeing the Brig getting more than a passing reference have been dashed :frown:

Stressfactor

07-27-2008, 06:19 AM

I'd like to see at least two seasons with no Daleks or fanservice, as the show is perfectly capable of sustaining itself without that.

I agree that the Daleks need a rest. They seem to have cropped up at least once in every season since the show relaunched. I wouldn't mind seeing some other old companions BUT I'd rather see them in something like a charity special rather than an entire episode.

As for the Brig -- he's going to show up in the Sarah Jane Adventures and I'm satisfied with that. In fact, if anything, the SJA have shown that the character of Sarah Jane does not need the Doctor. Although I still wouldn't mind a Doctor cameo for the SJA I'd rather it be just that -- a quick, cute cameo, the Doctor giving his blessing then haring off to let Sarah Jane and her team handle things.

king mob

07-27-2008, 06:59 AM

That's absolute bull, and will never happen in a million years. Nobody in the right mind would actually do that.

The deal was for four years with a review after those four years. Considering the Nation estate got a lot of money out of the BBC (rumours suggest a six-figure deal & a cut of merchandising) then the BBC wouldn't want to pay out more money, especially at a time when they're struggling with budgets, if the Daleks aren't part of Moffat's plans.

king mob

07-27-2008, 07:01 AM

As for the Brig -- he's going to show up in the Sarah Jane Adventures and I'm satisfied with that. In fact, if anything, the SJA have shown that the character of Sarah Jane does not need the Doctor. Although I still wouldn't mind a Doctor cameo for the SJA I'd rather it be just that -- a quick, cute cameo, the Doctor giving his blessing then haring off to let Sarah Jane and her team handle things.

There is a Tennant cameo in SJA series two apparently & one would assume it's to do with the Brig/Sontaran story.

king mob

07-27-2008, 07:14 AM

Here's the Comic Con trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBUTt9BQtmk). Not great quality but you can get the jist of it.

Toku King

07-27-2008, 07:53 AM

Here's the Comic Con trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBUTt9BQtmk). Not great quality but you can get the jist of it.

Sweet! I love the Cybermen!

They should bring back the Zygons sometime, too.

Snowspinner

07-27-2008, 01:39 PM

Look, if you're going to cover this show, the incoming showrunner's name is Moffat, not Moffet, and the lead character is The Doctor, not Doctor Who. Get some basic things right, kay?

ZT4

07-27-2008, 01:46 PM

Here's the new "BBC Proms"-exclusive Webisode "Music of the Spheres"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHDKhWsPu1M

Nothing big, just pure fun. Works without a live crowd too.

ZT4

07-27-2008, 01:51 PM

Yeah...god, do you HEAR him being called Doctor Who in anything but a gag? I hope Moff comments on this typical mistake from ignorant media in the series

tricksterpup

07-27-2008, 04:24 PM

The deal was for four years with a review after those four years. Considering the Nation estate got a lot of money out of the BBC (rumours suggest a six-figure deal & a cut of merchandising) then the BBC wouldn't want to pay out more money, especially at a time when they're struggling with budgets, if the Daleks aren't part of Moffat's plans.

Yeah, I think at this point its time to put away the Daleks and lets go to something else. I mean, it was a cool surprise a few seasons ago we saw the Cybermen vs Daleks, but now its like well when are the daleks going to appear. Blah blah blah.. same ole same ole. Don't get wrong, I enjoyed those episodes but I would love to see Moffat create an all new arch race or villain for the doctor. I love the history of the doctor but would love to see something fresh. I would love to see the race from Blink again or lets see the rumored trickster that was in SJA appear in future episodes of Doctor Who.

Toku King

07-27-2008, 05:14 PM

They should try to make some old school suitimation monsters, but original ones. Personally, I liked the Slitheen and the Empty Child Zombies, so why not make more like that?
Though, I'd love to see some old school foes return just the same, like the Zygons, Omega, Morbious, Black Guardian(with the Shadow), the Sea Demons, and so on.

ZT4

07-27-2008, 05:48 PM

Morbius is coming back for the second season finale of the Paul Mcgann audios, it's a pity it's not televised

Shove "distinctions", all Morbius uses is his real name to sound like a bad-ass.

Ontir

07-27-2008, 05:49 PM

That's absolute bull, and will never happen in a million years. Nobody in the right mind would actually do that.

We've seen more than enough of the Daleks for the last 4 years. We can't miss them if they don't go away! Remember that there were no Cybermen stories during the entire Pertwee era, so there is a precedent for not using time-honoured villains.

Having seen some Troughton Cybermen stories, I now see why people are interested in them. I never cared for them in the Baker era, or after. At least not until RTD improved from what I'd seen, but bringing back the Troughton era Cybermen would be really interesting. I have to believe that they, and especially "Tomb of..." are the source of inspiration for Star Trek: the Next Generation's "Borg." Having the OG Cybermen meet up and cross-breed with RTD's version should prove very interesting.

I'd also love to see what the Movellans are up to. They were less malevolent than the other two cyborg races, but clearly determined and able to hold the Daleks to a stalemate. I'd love to see what they've been doing with the universe since the Time War.

That said, Moffat is clearly a creative force and I don't think he'll have any trouble giving us some new horrors to which we can look forward.

Stressfactor

07-27-2008, 05:57 PM

Here's the new "BBC Proms"-exclusive Webisode "Music of the Spheres"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHDKhWsPu1M

Nothing big, just pure fun. Works without a live crowd too.

Thank you from us Yanks who can't get this stuff.

10 points for using "Reverse the polarity of the neutron flow" and 10 points for using the original Doctor Who theme at the end...:biggrin:

Stressfactor

07-27-2008, 06:07 PM

[QUOTE=Ontir;7264945]I have to believe that they, and especially "Tomb of..." are the source of inspiration for Star Trek: the Next Generation's "Borg." [/QUOTE=Ontir;7264945]

Supposedly some of the Star Trek characters in the episode that introduced the Borg are named after the people who created they Cybermen.

But even in the Troughton era they rather overused the Cybermen. They were pretty piss-poor in "The Wheel in Space" and they were in the passenger seat for "The Invasion" with Tobias Vaughn being the big bad.

You know, that does remind me -- it would be nice to see a few more human villians -- guys who are just too big for their britches, want too much power, and make deals with devils to gain it... or else create their own devils. There just aren't any good Mavic Chen's or Tobias Vaughn's (ironically both played by the same actor). Where are the Magnus Greels (when all was said and done Mr. "Weng Chiang" was, after all, only human), where are the Zaroffs, the Salamanders, he Professor Kettlewells, etc...

Here's hoping Moffat will go back to reminding people that sometimes man's greatest enemy is... man.

Ontir

07-27-2008, 07:54 PM

That was fun.

Captain Jim

07-27-2008, 10:42 PM

Did you all see the spoiler for the character who's supposed to return in one of the 2009 specials?

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/tv/article1437685.ece

JCAll

07-28-2008, 12:13 AM

As for the Brig -- he's going to show up in the Sarah Jane Adventures and I'm satisfied with that. In fact, if anything, the SJA have shown that the character of Sarah Jane does not need the Doctor. Although I still wouldn't mind a Doctor cameo for the SJA I'd rather it be just that -- a quick, cute cameo, the Doctor giving his blessing then haring off to let Sarah Jane and her team handle things.

Wow. The Sarah Jane Adventures just continues to get more and more badass.
Easily my favorite Doctor Who spin off.

Does anyone know how it's doing compared to Torchwood and the regular series?

king mob

07-28-2008, 01:27 AM

Did you all see the spoiler for the character who's supposed to return in one of the 2009 specials?

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/tv/article1437685.ece

Take Jenny (and the Master & McGann) returning in the specials with a pinch of salt as Davies hasn't written them yet. All we really know is that the last special leaves Moffat with a blank slate to start his run.

king mob

07-28-2008, 01:31 AM

Wow. The Sarah Jane Adventures just continues to get more and more badass.
Easily my favorite Doctor Who spin off.

Does anyone know how it's doing compared to Torchwood and the regular series?

For a children's serial drama in a multi-channel era it's doing very well. Part of it is down to it being a Who spin-off, though it's target audience would only really know Sarah Jane Smith from School Reuinion, & part of it's down to being very well done drama. It does also have the advantage of having no direct competition on terrestrial telly since ITV & Channel 4 abandonded making programmes for children.

Spike-X

07-28-2008, 02:50 AM

I very much hope this is true.

Very much.

*sigh*

edhopper

07-28-2008, 06:42 AM

Deathstroke

07-28-2008, 06:45 AM

I don't think I breathed during the entire episode. There was so much to like here. All the companions. Harriet Jones, Former PM. Captain Jack acknowledging that Sarah Smith is still a looker :biggrin: Rose not being able to communicate with anyone and the "what about me?" dialog.
From the previews I see Tenent is still the Doctor , at least for next week. But some big shit is gonna happen. (No spoilers about that show please)

It was a balls-out episode wasn't it?

I breathed quite regularly but I was on the edge of my seat waiting to see what was going to happen next.

Hell of a damn way to start the beginning of the end for RTD, eh?

Dark_Master

07-28-2008, 07:14 AM

Assuming it's true (which I do hope it is) do you think it's better if she showed up in like the second special and be the regular companion for the rest of them or would it be better if she just showed up in the last one and became the regular companion in the next series?

Nate Grey

07-28-2008, 09:57 AM

I'm hoping the McCann reumor is true, personally.

As for the doctor's daughter...I saw the episode, and personally I'm trying to find a reason to care about her. I don't hate her, by any means, but it seems like I'm supposed to like her just cause she's the doctor's daughter? That's not enough. There's nothing to her, she's a cypher, a blank slate who, thanks to the doctor, is going against her "programming" if you could call it that. She has none of his wisdom or knowledge, or ANY wisdom or knowledge save for her pre-programmed military training, and as such without some sort of mentor (which none of the people she flew off with qualify as), I can see her getting killed pretty quickly if she comes across even a minor threat.

I'm not saying she should be a doctor clone by any means, its just I'm not finding anything unique about her to warrant multiple appearances, and potentially a recurring status.

These are all things I'm drawing from her ONE appearance, while everyone else, it seems, can barely contain their excitement over her. I'm saying I don't see it, but I'd like to. Is it that people see the potential in her? Is it just excitement that people can point to her and say she's the doctor's biological daughter? Is it cause she so sweet (and child-like, but given her creation process that's understandable)? Is it cause in real life she's dating Tennent, and/or the real life daughter of a previous doctor actor? What I'm saying is is it something to do with the character (potential) or something outside the character (what the character represents (daughter) or the actress playing her)?

If its the former, okay, I can see that, there's no telling where she's been, who she's picked up for her "journey" or what she's learned since she last saw the doctor. Maybe she'll be unique and stand out then.

Nate Grey

07-28-2008, 09:58 AM

king mob

07-28-2008, 12:25 PM

These are all things I'm drawing from her ONE appearance, while everyone else, it seems, can barely contain their excitement over her. I'm saying I don't see it, but I'd like to.

You're not the only one. I know exactly what you're saying.

Is it that people see the potential in her?

There is some potential & Moffat sees something there otherwise he'd never had asked RTD to not kill her off. I can't see what it is but I'll certainly be interested to see what Moffat does with the character.

Is it just excitement that people can point to her and say she's the doctor's biological daughter?

I think so, but some of that finger pointing is a bit creepy.

Is it cause she so sweet (and child-like, but given her creation process that's understandable)?
There's the fanciable element for sure.

Is it cause in real life she's dating Tennent

Possibly but by 2010 Tennant will be going out with an 18 year old from Italia Conti at the rate he's going.
What I'm saying is is it something to do with the character (potential) or something outside the character (what the character represents (daughter) or the actress playing her)?

If its the former, okay, I can see that, there's no telling where she's been, who she's picked up for her "journey" or what she's learned since she last saw the doctor. Maybe she'll be unique and stand out then.

There's a confusion between reality and fantasy with the character/actress with a section of fans that's a bit odd (and as mentioned creepy) but I really don't know. There's some fans who fancy Catherine Tate for gods sake.

rick

07-28-2008, 12:34 PM

There's some fans who fancy Catherine Tate for gods sake.

Speaking strictly from a middle aged perspective, there are all sorts of reasons to fancy Catherine Tate, she's actually sort of hot.

Deathstroke

07-28-2008, 01:02 PM

Speaking strictly from a middle aged perspective, there are all sorts of reasons to fancy Catherine Tate, she's actually sort of hot.

I wouldn't kick her out of bed that's for sure.

Of course, given the state of my love life, I'd be hard pressed to really kick any willing woman out of my bed, but let's not dwell on that too much.

Dark_Master

07-28-2008, 01:28 PM

Is it that people see the potential in her? Is it just excitement that people can point to her and say she's the doctor's biological daughter? Is it cause she so sweet (and child-like, but given her creation process that's understandable)? Is it cause in real life she's dating Tennent, and/or the real life daughter of a previous doctor actor? What I'm saying is is it something to do with the character (potential) or something outside the character (what the character represents (daughter) or the actress playing her)?I think most people like her because of the first two reasons (the last scene of her episode was just awesomely happy) and because it opens up the possibility of exploring the Doctor's past a bit. And the fact that she is the daughter of someone who played the Doctor before is kinda cool for some people

I fail to see how the fact that she may be dating Tennant make the character more interesting. If anything one would think that it just makes it creepier IMO :confused:

blackphoenix

07-28-2008, 01:41 PM

It is so wrong that the Doctor is dating his own daughter!!! :tongue:

I had hoped we'd see Jenny in one of the Specials, (Yay!!!) but I was REALLY hoping to see Paul Mcgann's Eight Doctor show up(wouldn't it be cool as hell if Charley, his most popular companion from the audios, showed up as well?:eek: ). I hope to high heaven that they finally reveal what went down in the Time War, and that Mcgann is featured in it. I always thought the Time War had led to his regeneration into Eccleston.

Here are a few questions I wondered if any of you know the answers to:

1)What does a TARDIS actually look like when it's "hatched" or born? In one of the comics, it looked like an octopus.

2)When have the cloister bells in the TARDIS rung before?

3)Why doesn't the Doctor ever go back in time to Gallifrey before it was destroyed? And why does he never meet other Time Lords travelling thru time?

4)Was the Elemental Shade in the Love and Monsters episode the same as the Vashta Nerada? The Doctor says it escaped its forest, and the VN live in forests....

While I'm waiting for the Season Finale to air Friday, I 've been watching the first three Doctor Who stories (Unearthly Child, The Daleks)!!!! It's awesome!

blackphoenix

07-28-2008, 01:44 PM

Speaking strictly from a middle aged perspective, there are all sorts of reasons to fancy Catherine Tate, she's actually sort of hot.

I don't know why, but Catherine Tate is hot as hell in this series. I, too, would not kick her out of bed. Must be all that red hair...*sighs*

Of course, given the state of my love life, I'd be hard pressed to really kick any willing woman out of my bed, but let's not dwell on that too much. I'm right there with ya, bro. :(

Stressfactor

07-28-2008, 01:54 PM

3)Why doesn't the Doctor ever go back in time to Gallifrey before it was destroyed? And why does he never meet other Time Lords travelling thru time?

Part the First: Because Gallifrey wasn't just destroyed -- it was wiped from time itself. Gallifrey was destroyed in the past, present and future and the timeline reorganized themselves accordingly. The Doctor is kind of like a walking, talking, spatial anomaly.

Part the Second: The Doctor HAS met other Time Lords. The thing is, Time Lord society had largely developed into a bunch of Watchers (just like in the Marvel U) -- they observed time and would step in if something truly catastophic threatened but my and large they felt it wasn't their duty to meddle.

There were exceptions, though.

*The Celestial Intervention Agency (CIA) was a Time Lord branch that occasionally sent agents to "fix" things but these agents USUALLY acted undercover and not publicly. The Doctor was pushed into doing some higher profile jobs for the CIA but they used him because he was a known renegade and they could claim deniability.

* The other Time Lords the Doctor has run into have all been fugitives, criminals and outcasts from the Time Lord society. The Master was another fugitive and also a criminal who sought power, The Rani was tossed out of Gallifrey for some unspecified but probably horrific experimentation, and The Monk (of the Meddling Monk) was a fugitive who was also rather greedy and went mucking about in time to gain wealth for himself.

blackphoenix

07-28-2008, 02:07 PM

Toku King

07-28-2008, 03:45 PM

Doctor Who's On Itunes!!!!!!!!!!

mattx110

07-28-2008, 03:57 PM

Speaking strictly from a middle aged perspective, there are all sorts of reasons to fancy Catherine Tate, she's actually sort of hot.
I think she dresses a bit too much like a little girl... Other than that, and that she looks like an older version of my sister. So, I wouldn't, but I could understand if anyone else would, even if you're a bastard for thinking about my sister like that you bastard!!!!

I mean... I'm gonna take my pills now.

MMMMmmm Dalek Chewable Vitamins.

Spike-X

07-28-2008, 04:04 PM

Speaking strictly from a middle aged perspective, there are all sorts of reasons to fancy Catherine Tate, she's actually sort of hot.
She...she kinda is, isn't she?

When she's not being all shouty and annoying, that is.

LordEd1976

07-28-2008, 04:59 PM

2)When have the cloister bells in the TARDIS rung before?

Other than the times we've heard it in teh new series (Time Crash, Turn Left, and I believe somewhere in the Master 2-parter from season 3), I remember the cloister bell being introduced in Logopolis, the last story of Tom baker. A great sound effect that added to the ominous nature of the story.

Cyke

07-28-2008, 06:07 PM

Other than the times we've heard it in teh new series (Time Crash, Turn Left, and I believe somewhere in the Master 2-parter from season 3), I remember the cloister bell being introduced in Logopolis, the last story of Tom baker. A great sound effect that added to the ominous nature of the story.

It also rang during the 1996 movie, which greatly surprised me. I really thought that up to that point, the Cloister Bell was just a very minor sound effect that would surely be forgotten over time since it was only used, what, once in the past?. However, they brought back the Cloister Bell and its trademark sound effect. That's impressively accurate.

king mob

07-29-2008, 01:33 AM

I don't know why, but Catherine Tate is hot as hell in this series. I, too, would not kick her out of bed. Must be all that red hair...*sighs*

Americans are very odd. You can have Tate, please, if it'll mean no more of her bloody awful sketch programmes you can have her forever.

king mob

07-29-2008, 01:36 AM

Yeah, that's gonna last.

It probably won't but the Daleks have been terribly overexposed, but the deal cost a lot of money & Who is expensive (£13 million a series) to make in this era of BBC budget cuts.

Halcyon

07-29-2008, 03:47 AM

mattx110

07-29-2008, 05:59 AM

Americans are very odd. You can have Tate, please, if it'll mean no more of her bloody awful sketch programmes you can have her forever.The more she acts in things she doesn't write, the more I like her. We have a deal. You have her agent's number?

ChrisIII

07-29-2008, 07:40 AM

Gallifrey was erased from history in the novels, in a seperate destruction.

Erased history or not, it seems that some of the events in the new series have 'erased' those of the old. Heck, even some of the stuff in the new series contradicts the new series. Van Stratten and the Dalek, for instance (By the time of "Dalek" there have been two invasions). Also, I'm curious how the classic series Dalek Invasion of Earth is affected by the (2008?) invasion happening first. (There's a lot of homages to DIOE in Stolen Earth, to boot).

The classsic series serial,"Pyramid Of Mars" does introduce the concept that the WHO universe is sort of in a state of flux-the Doctor goes back to 1980 without defeating Sutekh, and the Earth is destroyed. However he does go back and defeat Sutekh, and the 'proper' timeline is restored.

Stressfactor

07-29-2008, 08:19 AM

Where exactly is this illogical idea that Gallifrey got erased from history coming from?

We've seen several individuals remembering it's existence throughout the last 4 series, Jack, the Krillitanes and the Racnoss Empress mentioning it by name or knowing about it's existence none of who have no reason to be immune to time line alterations not to mention Sarah Jane as well.

I seem to recall the Doctor saying that certain alien species with 'higher brain functions' or a sensitivity to the time lines can remember BOTH time lines -- the ones where Gallifrey existed and the ones where it did not. Besides that, the lady at the Shadow Proclamation indicated that Time Lords were myths and legends -- which implies that probably those who DID remember spoke about their memories OR it may be that those who had contact with the Doctor and heard his own stories about Gallifrey passed them along. So even those who DIDN'T have a sensitivity to the time lines could know about Gallifrey as a legend which they may or may not believe.

As for Sarah Jane... I can't remember where I saw this but I thought there was something where someone stated that when Gallifrey burned and the time lines reorganized a lot of worlds had their pasts changed and some disappeared altogether but the Doctor made sure that his precious Earth remained unaffected.

Cyke

07-29-2008, 04:06 PM

I seem to recall the Doctor saying that certain alien species with 'higher brain functions' or a sensitivity to the time lines can remember BOTH time lines -- the ones where Gallifrey existed and the ones where it did not. Besides that, the lady at the Shadow Proclamation indicated that Time Lords were myths and legends -- which implies that probably those who DID remember spoke about their memories OR it may be that those who had contact with the Doctor and heard his own stories about Gallifrey passed them along. So even those who DIDN'T have a sensitivity to the time lines could know about Gallifrey as a legend which they may or may not believe.

Yeah, that's about right, at least according to the TV show. Only beings and races of sufficient awareness/technology/development were aware. Jack was also aware of it, but probably because he was a Time Agent and/or that he was from the 51st century (so obviously humanity's a bit more developed by then), and even then, he thought it was all legend. Also, I don't think Sarah Jane was aware of the Time War until she met the current Doctor; she said she thought he died, but that was because he just dropped her off to answer an important call on Gallifrey and never returned.

So in response to the other post, it's not really nonsense, it's more about levels of perception.

rick

07-29-2008, 07:11 PM

Americans are very odd. You can have Tate, please, if it'll mean no more of her bloody awful sketch programmes you can have her forever.

We like tough, mouthy, red headed women.

It's in our ornery nature.

Stressfactor

07-29-2008, 07:17 PM

We like tough, mouthy, red headed women.

It's in our ornery nature.

And THIS
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/05_02/ctateDM2005_468x577.jpg
is probably all a lot of men feel they need to know.

mattx110

07-29-2008, 07:21 PM

:eek: Doctor who???

I don't see any doctor...

:smile:

rick

07-29-2008, 07:48 PM

And THIS
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/05_02/ctateDM2005_468x577.jpg
is probably all a lot of men feel they need to know.

Awsome tits never hurt.

Captain Jim

07-29-2008, 08:39 PM

Maybe some of you horny guys should take a trip to London. I read that she has a nude scene in a play there now.

Ontir

07-29-2008, 09:54 PM

Tate is in a great new film called Sixty Six (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0493450/) a True-ish Story. It's not a huge part, but it is important to the story, and she works the hell out of it!

Deathstroke

07-30-2008, 06:31 AM

Awsome tits never hurt.

Unless you get smacked by them as they swing wildly...possible neck damage.

ZT4

07-30-2008, 11:03 AM

king mob

07-30-2008, 12:08 PM

Steven Moffat has told Doctor Who fans to expect "new monsters" when he becomes the show's executive producer and lead writer.

Moffat, who is replacing executive producer Russell T Davies, was speaking at arts and comic book convention Comic-Con in California.

He told fans not to expect too many appearances from old characters.

"We're not in the business of being nostalgic, we're making nostalgia for the future, new monsters, new friends."

He was responding to their questions about the possibility of guest appearances from old characters - such as ex-Doctor Who companion Sarah Jane Smith, played by Elisabeth Sladen in the 1970s - as well as old enemies.

He told the San Diego convention: "Doctor Who is at its best when it's brand new and you've always got to remember that there's a new bunch of eight-year-olds watching every year and it has to be original - it has to belong to them."

But he said continuity when old characters did return was not difficult to achieve.

"Having taken the precaution of having memorised every single event in Doctor Who's history, it's fairly easy for me to keep continuity because I remember it all.

"In the end, a television series which embraces both the ideas of parallel universe and the concept of changing time can't have a continuity error - it can't.

"It's impossible for Doctor Who to get it wrong because we can just say 'he changed time, it's a time warp, it happens'."

'Just exciting'

Moffat has already written some of the most memorable Doctor Who episodes of recent times including Blink , of series three - which featured terrifying weeping angels - for which he picked up the best writer Bafta earlier this year.

Asked about his reputation for writing scary episodes he said: "If people are worried that because I'm taking over Doctor Who it's going to be just really, really frightening, if that's your concern then… tough."

He also spoke to fans for the first time about getting the job he has "always wanted".

The writer said the prospect of taking over from Davies for the fifth series - due to be shown on BBC One in spring 2010 - was "just exciting". It was announced he was taking the job in May.

"I suppose it should be daunting or nerve-wracking but it's not a real job like working in a hospital - it's just fun."

He added: "I mean it's hard work too but most things that are fun are hard work."

Last week, Moffat denied a newspaper report that he "quit" a deal to work on Steven Spielberg's forthcoming Tintin trilogy because of the doctor Who job.

A newspaper report that he had "turned down" a two-film deal with Spielberg was "a bit misleading", he told the BBC News website.

He had planned to finish Tintin before starting Doctor Who but was delayed by the US writers' strike, he added.

Davies will remain in charge of four specials to be shown in 2009.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7531310.stm

Ontir

07-30-2008, 01:17 PM

Stressfactor

07-30-2008, 01:18 PM

Audio trailer for the Big Finish version of The Ultimate Adventure

http://www.bigfinish.com/1-Doctor-Who-The-Stage-Plays-The-Ultimate-Adventure

...Just try and be weary of that bloody music...peirces the ears, and that's got to be on purpose:cool:

It's a legit Dalek/Cybermen crossover though, the 1980s models, not AU versions

Huh. You know, I'd been wondering if someone would ever get retroflective about those three old stage plays but I never really expected Big Finish to do them as audios.

As for the music... It makes me flash back to the 80's -- in a way that makes me shudder.

mattx110

07-30-2008, 09:51 PM

The only two characters I absolutely want back are River Song and Sally Sparrow!

Eventually the Daleks will have to return, but give us a season or two before that happens! They've been front and center for the entire series, thus far, even when we didn't know they were there!

I think it would be interesting to see what has occurred BECAUSE the workings of the Time Lords have been walled off from the rest of reality. There should be things that, if viewed over the course of the old series, will contradict because those events are now shut away. You have a handful of characters like Sarah Jane who were locked out of the Time War and are able to remember their past, even though, to the rest of the universe it might not have happened.

I also theorize that the reason the Doctor was the lone survivor of the Time War is because he was the sole Time Lord off Gallifrey before the Time War. When it ended and those times were sealed off, his first incarnation was on the outside, and his future became new, separated from established continuity. Because of this, it is possible that Tennant's Doctor is actually Doctor #3, not #10.
I think Doctor 8 just pushed the big red button and blew the hell out of everything including himself, but he survived, maybe his TARDIS kept him able to regenerate or something (he might've unplugged it from Gallifrey, or his eye is special or somesuch), but I think the Doctor has his own timeline separate from the rest of the universe along with everyone he personally crossed paths with. I don't think they'd go with a "he's number 3" reset kinda thing, just because it seems like it could create confusion. "Wait... the scarf guy never happened, wtf!??"

ZT4

07-30-2008, 10:57 PM

Huh. You know, I'd been wondering if someone would ever get retroflective about those three old stage plays but I never really expected Big Finish to do them as audios.

As for the music... It makes me flash back to the 80's -- in a way that makes me shudder.

You'd think it was one of those "do what I'm doing on stage" songs you see all the time at Butlins...

JCAll

07-31-2008, 02:38 AM

I also theorize that the reason the Doctor was the lone survivor of the Time War is because he was the sole Time Lord off Gallifrey before the Time War. When it ended and those times were sealed off, his first incarnation was on the outside, and his future became new, separated from established continuity. Because of this, it is possible that Tennant's Doctor is actually Doctor #3, not #10.

Or he just got lucky. That seems to be the standard Doctor method of surviving things.

Not that it matters until he out of regenerations, since the numbering is just there for our convience. After the Doctor gets himself dead through all of his 13 lives he'll somehow regenerates again all we're going to get is a "What!?" to end the season.

By that point, I doubt using the Time War will work as an excuse, since it will have been last mentioned in an episode a decade ago.

Stressfactor

07-31-2008, 08:00 AM

You'd think it was one of those "do what I'm doing on stage" songs you see all the time at Butlins...

I am afraid I am unfamiliar with this cultural refrence. :confused:

ZT4

07-31-2008, 09:04 AM

I am afraid I am unfamiliar with this cultural refrence. :confused:

I'd advise you to go to "Butlins" so you could get that joke, but It's really not worth the price of sanity.:redface:

king mob

07-31-2008, 11:23 AM

I am afraid I am unfamiliar with this cultural refrence. :confused:

Butlins are holiday camps that sprung up after the war to provide cheap holidays for Britain's working class population. They were set up in seaside towns like Skegness but provided lots of indoor entertainment as the British summer has always been erratic.
They're still around but have diversified (I was at a ska weekender at Butlins) & adapted to modern day British culture.

king mob

07-31-2008, 11:27 AM

Ontir

07-31-2008, 11:48 AM

Or he just got lucky. That seems to be the standard Doctor method of surviving things.

Not that it matters until he out of regenerations, since the numbering is just there for our convience. After the Doctor gets himself dead through all of his 13 lives he'll somehow regenerates again all we're going to get is a "What!?" to end the season.

By that point, I doubt using the Time War will work as an excuse, since it will have been last mentioned in an episode a decade ago.

Thus far, they've mentioned the Time War a couple of times a season. I don't see that going away.

I think we'll get more than "What?!?" when the Doctor passes 13.

It would be lucky to have been the only Time Lord off Gallifrey at a point outside the cordoned off sections of the Time War, and end up its sole survivor.

Stressfactor

07-31-2008, 02:35 PM

Butlins are holiday camps that sprung up after the war to provide cheap holidays for Britain's working class population. They were set up in seaside towns like Skegness but provided lots of indoor entertainment as the British summer has always been erratic.
They're still around but have diversified (I was at a ska weekender at Butlins) & adapted to modern day British culture.

Thanks from the British impaired!:smile:

Popgun

07-31-2008, 02:54 PM

Thanks from the British impaired!:smile:

They've mostly died out now - The horrible Delta and The Bannermen from the McCoy era was set and filmed at the Barry Island, South Wales resort, long since demolished.

thehod

07-31-2008, 10:55 PM

Ontir

08-01-2008, 12:01 AM

Popgun

08-01-2008, 02:56 AM

I was a ska weekender at Bulins!

A teen-horror film Michael Landon forgot to make! :tongue:

I dunno, Mob. Even being a proud gay man I'm not sure I could bare to get myself to a "Bultin!" :wink:

You may mock, but KM came third in the knobbly knees contest.

Halcyon

08-01-2008, 03:32 AM

tony ingram

08-01-2008, 06:21 AM

I think it would be interesting to see what has occurred BECAUSE the workings of the Time Lords have been walled off from the rest of reality. There should be things that, if viewed over the course of the old series, will contradict because those events are now shut away. You have a handful of characters like Sarah Jane who were locked out of the Time War and are able to remember their past, even though, to the rest of the universe it might not have happened.

I also theorize that the reason the Doctor was the lone survivor of the Time War is because he was the sole Time Lord off Gallifrey before the Time War. When it ended and those times were sealed off, his first incarnation was on the outside, and his future became new, separated from established continuity. Because of this, it is possible that Tennant's Doctor is actually Doctor #3, not #10.

Nothing has ever been said or shown to indicate that established classic series continuity has been changed by the Time War, or that anyone has forgotten anything. I have no idea where this theory came from, but it isn't supported by any evidence from the show or from anything the producer has said. And there were numerous Time Lords living away from Galifrey: offhand, the Monk, the Rani, Drax and Professor Chronotis spring to mind.

Stressfactor

08-01-2008, 07:47 AM

That still doesn't explain the Racnoss Empress who never demonstrated any kind of knowledge of time travel knowing about Gallifrey when she apparently went into hibernation millions of years before the Time War started.

To the best of my knowledge nothing has been stated in S1-3 by the Doctor or by Russel T Davies that suggested that Gallifrey was erased from existence. It seems to be a fan theory that apparently came out of nowhere and makes no sense what so ever.

The Racnoss Empress didn't go into hibernation -- the ship carrying her children did. THEY were still in hibernation and if she had gone into hibernation with them then she would have still been IN hibernation.

As for Gallifrey... no matter what RTD and Moffat have made it clear that SOMETHING keeps the Doctor from going back to Gallifrey's past. Also, the woman at the Shadow Proclamation DID state that Time Lords were considered myth and legend.

Ontir

08-01-2008, 09:10 AM

Nothing has ever been said or shown to indicate that established classic series continuity has been changed by the Time War, or that anyone has forgotten anything. I have no idea where this theory came from, but it isn't supported by any evidence from the show or from anything the producer has said. And there were numerous Time Lords living away from Galifrey: offhand, the Monk, the Rani, Drax and Professor Chronotis spring to mind.

Actually we've seen more than a few contradictions. Earth ends at a different time than it used to first off. I saw a whole list at the beginning of season 2, if I can remember where I'll link to it.

The Shadow Proclamation, powerful as it appears to be, has little knowledge of the Time Lords. The woman the Doctor met was stunned to hear him say he was a Time Lord, and said they were only myth.

There were a number of Time Lords who had left Gallifrey, but the one who seems to have the longest track record is the Doctor. He's the one who was off, on the run, and getting mixed up and involved in things. I didn't say there weren't others, but that he was the one who had the longest and broadest existence off Gallifrey, and most likely outside the bounds of the Time War.

Ontir

08-01-2008, 09:17 AM

The Racnoss Empress didn't go into hibernation -- the ship carrying her children did. THEY were still in hibernation and if she had gone into hibernation with them then she would have still been IN hibernation.

As for Gallifrey... no matter what RTD and Moffat have made it clear that SOMETHING keeps the Doctor from going back to Gallifrey's past. Also, the woman at the Shadow Proclamation DID state that Time Lords were considered myth and legend.

The Doctor and Davros spoke of the Time War being closed off. I think in order to end the Time War, as well as to out do the other side, both Daleks and Time Lords imposed boundaries on the war. Otherwise it would spill out across all time, everywhere and it clearly hasn't. I thought the only way to end a time war would be to erase all elements of it from existence at every level of time, which lead to my belief that the previous incarnations of the Doctor couldn't come back. They had all perished at the end of the Time War, leaving only the McGann Doctor, most likely to survive and then regenerate into Eccleston's.

The Racnoss children had been in hibernation for billions of years as Earth formed around their ship. The Empress may have been in hibernation at some point, but she probably knew of the Time Lords as they began to rise. It's probably their rise that lead the way to the end of a lot of the old orders in the universe. All other empires were through space. The Time Lords moved through time, out-doing any other power along the way. I think they eventually became sort of like China, not very interested in the worlds around them, and withdrew.

Haydn C

08-01-2008, 10:45 AM

Today's Guardian has some exclusive pictures of Tennant as Hamlet (http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/gallery/2008/jul/31/david.tennant.theatre.shakespeare)in the new RSC production. Some of the costumes are a bit Alan Bleasdale.

http://image.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2008/07/30/tennant300x180.jpg

I will be there on August 23rd and I will report back. Looking forward to seeing Patrick Stewart as well.

I like the look. I think it is directed by the same guy who directed Stewart in The Tempest last year and that was great.

Stressfactor

08-01-2008, 11:00 AM

The Doctor and Davros spoke of the Time War being closed off. I think in order to end the Time War, as well as to out do the other side, both Daleks and Time Lords imposed boundaries on the war. Otherwise it would spill out across all time, everywhere and it clearly hasn't. I thought the only way to end a time war would be to erase all elements of it from existence at every level of time, which lead to my belief that the previous incarnations of the Doctor couldn't come back. They had all perished at the end of the Time War, leaving only the McGann Doctor, most likely to survive and then regenerate into Eccleston's.

The only thing is, in order to have all incarnations of the Doctor together at one point in time they would have to be taken out of their respective timelines somewhere before their own deaths and regenerations. Which means that if they "died" in the Time War then they wouldn't be alive to go on to their own "deaths" and regenerations and the problem with that is that the Doctor's living companions on Earth obviously DID participate in those regenerations. Sarah Jane recalls seeing Three become Four -- as did the Brig. So that means Three COULDN'T go into the Time War and not come out -- it would not only have skewed his own timeline -- it would have messed up timelines on the Earth as well.

Besides all of that, "The Three Doctors" and "The Five Doctors" -- although they were lark filled romps DID make it clear that having multiple incarnations of the same person running around caused A LOT of problems and put some strain on the time lines. So having eight versions of the Doctor running around during a Time War when the time lines were already being strained would probably have been counter-intuitive for the Time Lords.

Toku King

08-01-2008, 12:59 PM

I'd love to see a Time War movie, or at least mini series, which takes place during the rest of the Eighth Doctor's life, and the start of the Ninth Doctor.

ZT4

08-01-2008, 04:46 PM

Things like that are better left to interpretation. I was satisfied with the description Davies gave in the DW Annual.

king mob

08-02-2008, 04:10 AM

I'd love to see a Time War movie, or at least mini series, which takes place during the rest of the Eighth Doctor's life, and the start of the Ninth Doctor.

Not going to happen, at least not for the very foreseeable future. Davies did suggest that Panini could do something with the Time War but nothings happened.

Stressfactor

08-02-2008, 05:44 AM

Not going to happen, at least not for the very foreseeable future. Davies did suggest that Panini could do something with the Time War but nothings happened.

I wouldn't put it past IDW -- they've got the American license for Doctor Who comics.

Particularly since it looks like next up they'll be doing a multiple Doctor story -- after a fashion....

Deathstroke

08-02-2008, 05:46 AM

I watched the season finale last night and wow did they pack a lot in or what?

Okay, I was one of those who despised Donna in The Runaway Bride, but I did a complete 180 with Season 4.

I was really kind of sad that they did all that work making her a really solid character and ended out wiping all that out at the end.

Rose getting the Doctor after all was a nice little touch and though I don't know if it was intended this way, a nice nod to the fans who wanted a Rose/Doctor relationship.

Martha and Mickey leaving with Jack was a nice way to seque into that BS 5 hour season of Torchwood.

I would've loved to see at least the girl from SJC (can't remember her name at the moment) along with Sarah Jane and Luke. But the idea of them all working together in one big blow out event was I thought well handled.

Jackie: I named him Doctor

The Doctor: Really?

Jackie (can't remember the exact phrase) No you ninny...

That was a priceless exchange.

ZT4

08-02-2008, 06:32 AM

Rose getting the Doctor after all was a nice little touch and though I don't know if it was intended this way, a nice nod to the fans who wanted a Rose/Doctor relationship.

It wasnt really a nod. He left her with a burden (the "darker" Doctor) Harper admited in the Confidential documentary that the scene was intended to be one of regret and triumph, with Rose not really knowing what to do with what she's got. It harkens back to the manipulitive days of the Seventh Doctor, and Davros' speech earlier in the episode. The Doctor is again using a "child of time" to look after a weapon

Cyke

08-02-2008, 08:37 AM

Regarding the placement of the Time War in the realm of history, I just have to point out: Wibbly-Wobbly, Timey-Wimey.

Seriously.

Who has constantly maintained since the old days that time isn't just a linear progression of time, that it's really a web/network of infinite combinations that can overlap. This is why, for example, Earth can be "permanently" destroyed a half-dozen times at any point in the far future and STILL count within continuity. The thing to remember is that the continuity of the show (the "canon," if you will) doesn't follow the normal progression of history, but rather the personal timeline of the Doctor and other time travellers/temporally-aware species, which twists and turns due to the nature of time travel. An event in the past can impact time sideways, not just the events after. For example, humans as a whole in 2012 ("Dalek") don't know what one is, but by 2009 (or whatever year the "present" is for the show), everyone knows the Daleks.

I myself am of the belief that the Time War spread throughout all of time, but that the final battle was at the beginning of time. I've nothing concrete to back that theory up, and I'm willing to be proven wrong, of course. But if other species know about the true nature of time (the big ball of time as opposed to the straight line of time), then I don't think it's far off for them to be aware of an event as cataclysmic as the Time War.

Ontir

08-02-2008, 04:36 PM

The only thing is, in order to have all incarnations of the Doctor together at one point in time they would have to be taken out of their respective timelines somewhere before their own deaths and regenerations. Which means that if they "died" in the Time War then they wouldn't be alive to go on to their own "deaths" and regenerations and the problem with that is that the Doctor's living companions on Earth obviously DID participate in those regenerations. Sarah Jane recalls seeing Three become Four -- as did the Brig. So that means Three COULDN'T go into the Time War and not come out -- it would not only have skewed his own timeline -- it would have messed up timelines on the Earth as well.

Besides all of that, "The Three Doctors" and "The Five Doctors" -- although they were lark filled romps DID make it clear that having multiple incarnations of the same person running around caused A LOT of problems and put some strain on the time lines. So having eight versions of the Doctor running around during a Time War when the time lines were already being strained would probably have been counter-intuitive for the Time Lords.

It's a TIME war. They don't have to be in the same time or place, the can be in the same time, but different places, the same place but different times, all communicating through the TARDIS. Yes, pulling them from points in their own timelines, prior to their regenerations would make them paradoxes, but so what! They're Time LORDS, and they are fighting the Daleks who want to end everyone and everything except themselves. This means Gallifrey is willing to take chances and go to extremes the normally wouldn't go near.

Also, as Cyke said, the show follows the Doctor's time-line, not the universes. The Doctor changes things, so if reality is different now, that's OK. He will still remember his lifetimes, even if they technically didn't happen now.

I think the Time War was focused on Gallifrey, Skaro, and a few dozen key worlds (like the Nestene's) strategically important to both. From what the Doctor has told us, it seems there was a final gambit in which they were all sacrificed by the Time Lords to secure the rest of reality, with the Doctor stuck in the tragedy of having survived a Doomsday he helped to orchestrate and execute. In order to prevent their time-traveling foes from moving to other worlds and eras and continuing the battle, they trapped them in time first, which is the only way to ensure and guarantee an end to hostilities.

Stressfactor

08-02-2008, 08:19 PM

However the "time war" worked I just choose to believe that the Doctor's past incarnations all do still exist -- he just can't normally access them on his own anymore.

After all, two out of the three times he met himself it took extraordinary measures to do it. The Time Lords had to arrange the first meeting and actually, the Time Lord invention of the Time Scoop was responsible for the second meeting.

Now that there are no more Time Lords, no more immense power from the Eye of Harmony to power things then the Doctor being able to meet with himself has become difficult to near impossible because of the amount of power required.

After all, Ten has said as well that crossing into other dimensions was possible when Gallifrey was around but he can't do it by himself.

StoneGold

08-02-2008, 08:41 PM

Regarding the placement of the Time War in the realm of history, I just have to point out: Wibbly-Wobbly, Timey-Wimey.

Seriously.

The British equivalent of "Just repeat to yourself it's just a show, you should really just relax."

StoneGold

08-02-2008, 08:45 PM

I watched the season finale last night and wow did they pack a lot in or what?

Okay, I was one of those who despised Donna in The Runaway Bride, but I did a complete 180 with Season 4.

Just watched it myself. I think a lot of it was the absence of sexual tension. The "will they, won't they" from the first three seasons was getting a bit distracting.

Cyke

08-02-2008, 09:29 PM

The British equivalent of "Just repeat to yourself it's just a show, you should really just relax."

Bless you, my friend.

Ronald Bryan

08-02-2008, 10:09 PM

Brilliant finale. Although a sad ending in a way.

king mob

08-03-2008, 05:47 AM

Lawrence Miles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Miles) can be somewhat annoying, especially when he's doing his 'but why didn't the BBC hire ME' nonsense & not realising that the programme is best when it's directed towards a popular mass audience, rather than a small section of obsessive fans.

His vendetta towards Stephen Moffat is especially bleak but every now and then he throws something up that's actually quite funny & spot on. This is one of those things.

"Take Something Real, and Twist It a Bit" ... twenty more everyday things that Steven Moffat can turn into monsters in an attempt to scare kids.

by Lawrence Miles

1. Reflections.

2. Babies.

3. Hoodies.

4. Shoes.

5. Doors.

6. Fluff.

7. Sticklebrix.

8. Cleanliness.

9. Condoms (would've been inevitable if he'd ever written an episode of Torchwood).

10. The man on the Pringles tube.

11. The smell of Savlon.

12. The letters "B" and "K", and the number "6".

13. The irrational feeling that Christopher Eccleston is going to turn up again at any minute.

14. The ground.

15. Armpits.

16. Zips.

17. Body hair.

18. Common sense.

19. Straight lines.

20. That joke about the chicken.

edhopper

08-03-2008, 04:13 PM

I'd say that season ender had everything. Drama, excitement, pathos, love, two (count them, two) Doctors. And a resolution with Rose I did not think I'd see.
Poor Donna, I really grew to like her.

So, is Tenant coming back for another season?
Will we see Micky and Martha in Torchwood?

What do my fellow Yanks think?

Deathstroke

08-03-2008, 06:24 PM

Mickey and Martha are supposedly going to be in Torchwood.

There are a bunch of specials coming up that Tennant will be in but no confirmation either way if he'll be back for another full season or not.

drwho

08-03-2008, 06:26 PM

Justin D.

08-03-2008, 09:51 PM

Because the last episode has aired on the SciFi network, I merged the overall Doctor Who thread with the Doctor Who on SciFi channel thread.

I myself am only up to The Doctor's Daughter episode. By the way, the Doctor's daughter? Kind of hot.

Also, I love the respectful yet deadly tone of the Sontarans.

"I'm sorry about shooting your arm off. I know death has more honor. Forgive me, but I really do need you for our experiments."

Ok, I made the quote up, but it's in the same vein.

Spike-X

08-04-2008, 02:27 AM

By the way, the Doctor's daughter? Kind of hot.

Only kind of?

Are you half blind as well as half deaf?

*great big smiley to show I'm just kiddin' ya*

rick

08-04-2008, 04:19 AM

I thought the ending was rushed and blew chunks. Martha cant act thank god she is off the show. I felt like Davros was wasted as a villain and the Daleks were defeated too easily. Also the whole Donna Doctor thing made little sense. It was a great disappointment to me.

Ahh, you must have watched the ending from another dimension then, because the season finale from here on our earth was just brilliant. :smile:

ZT4

08-04-2008, 04:46 AM

Also the whole Donna Doctor thing made little sense.

It made plenty of sense. The energies and DNA of the hand merged with the DNA of Donna. It's more psudo-science that DW is notorious for, and why it's so much fun. The day certain fans finally stop fretting about psudo-science is the day they finally enjoy this show, too bad that'll never happen, but it's their loss.

Mickey and Martha are supposedly going to be in Torchwood.

There are a bunch of specials coming up that Tennant will be in but no confirmation either way if he'll be back for another full season or not.

Actually, Freema Aygeman has jumped ship to ITV to star in "Law and Order: London", and all five scripts have had to be rewritten to accomedate for her abcense.

Charles RB

08-04-2008, 04:52 AM

I thought the ending was rushed and blew chunks.

Most of it, yes, then with bits that are really good. So it goes Lame Rushed Crap! Good Bit! Lame Rushed Crap! Good Bit! More Crap With Brazen Emotional Manipulation! Good Bit! Really Good Bit! Oh Fuck, Doctor-Donna, Shit Factor 9! More Emotional Manipulation! Brilliant Bit! Oooh, Cybermen.

The final end for Donna is brilliant and heartbreaking but bollocks to Doctor-Donna. It makes no sense. And not even in a fun way, it's "look the character is babbling a lot and then Daleks blow up, isn't it FUN!" - no, it's shite, and you're doing this just after the Daleks neutralised every other plot against them. It almost undermines Donna's mindwipe because it comes off like they thought "right, Donna will forget everything" and then tried looking for a solution while thinking "fuck, how do I get out of this corner I've painted myself into with the Daleks being this strong?".

Actually, Freema Aygeman has jumped ship to ITV to star in "Law and Order: London", and all five scripts have had to be rewritten to accomedate for her abcense.

Has she? Oh thank Christ. I was dreading seeing Martha condemned to Torchwood.

ZT4

08-04-2008, 04:59 AM

Well it was fun to me...and there IS such a thing as "fun shite":tongue:

Freema leaving at the least finally says all that needs to be said about the rumours she was pissed she got a limited role after season three...doesnt that woman know she had to be strucutally taken out? This is how drama works around someone with a story to tell girl.

Just in case nobody's confirmed it yet, the writers for TW season three are

-RTD (one episode, the season premiere)
-James Moran (one episode)
-John Fay (three episodes, including the finale)

Charles RB

08-04-2008, 05:12 AM

Well it was fun to me...and there IS such a thing as "fun shite":tongue:

Yep, there is. Episode 12, for example, was shite but fun in its overblowedness. Episode 13... not so much.

Also, "HE KILLED THE DALEKS OH NO BAAAAAAAAAAD". Fuck off, you've been committing Dalek genocide since 1963 and nobody in the audience is bothered, nor - by the Whoniverse's own rules about the Daleks - should they be bothered.

Freema leaving at the least finally says all that needs to be said about the rumours she was pissed she got a limited role after season three...doesnt that woman know she had to be strucutally taken out?

She's probably more interested in "how are my bills getting paid", I'd have thought. It would be a waste of a character anyway, transferring her to Torchwood - if she's in UNIT, it's easier to bring her back (UNIT operates all over, Torchwood's in Cardiff, and of course if she's tied to that there's Torchwood continuity to weave around).

Typo Lad

08-04-2008, 05:13 AM

Actually, Freema Aygeman has jumped ship to ITV to star in "Law and Order: London", and all five scripts have had to be rewritten to accomedate for her abcense.

Actually, that show sounds more interesting.

Deathstroke

08-04-2008, 05:15 AM

Actually, Freema Aygeman has jumped ship to ITV to star in "Law and Order: London", and all five scripts have had to be rewritten to accomedate for her abcense.

Wow, I hadn't heard that. Thanks for the update.

ZT4

08-04-2008, 06:46 AM

Actually, that show sounds more interesting.

Oh it would if the rumours werent flying it's just going to rehash old Law and Order scripts to begin with...

Torchwood's former head writer Chris Chibnall is also handling it.

king mob

08-04-2008, 11:16 AM

Yep, there is. Episode 12, for example, was shite but fun in its overblowedness. Episode 13... not so much.

Without going over too much old ground, I agree, Journey's End is joyless nonsense, especially the Doctor Donna stuff but the end scene between Cribbins & Tennant is one of the best things ever written for Who.

Also, "HE KILLED THE DALEKS OH NO BAAAAAAAAAAD". Fuck off, you've been committing Dalek genocide since 1963 and nobody in the audience is bothered, nor - by the Whoniverse's own rules about the Daleks - should they be bothered.

He commited genocide upon the Daleks at least twice in the old series, plus you've had Eccleston's Doctor getting all Absalom Daak upon the Daleks. Meh.

She's probably more interested in "how are my bills getting paid", I'd have thought. It would be a waste of a character anyway, transferring her to Torchwood - if she's in UNIT, it's easier to bring her back (UNIT operates all over, Torchwood's in Cardiff, and of course if she's tied to that there's Torchwood continuity to weave around).

It's a shame to lose her but one can see why she's left to join what will be a high profile new ITV drama, though I'm bloody tired of 'new' British drama that's just a half arsed spin-off of something better.

Charles RB

08-04-2008, 12:01 PM

He commited genocide upon the Daleks at least twice in the old series

Hartnell did mass-murder on them twice, Troughton started a civil war to kill them all, Pertwee wiped out 12000 of them, Davison released the Movellan virus on their remaining forces, McCoy blew up Scaro following a Dalek Civil War he instigated, and then you've got Eccleston doing it in the Time War.

Oh, and Rose did it. Rose committed genocide while being oh-so-human and the Doctor NEVER SAID SHIT.

It's a shame to lose her but one can see why she's left to join what will be a high profile new ITV drama, though I'm bloody tired of 'new' British drama that's just a half arsed spin-off of something better.

I bet the crew are fed up too and all.

Justin D.

08-04-2008, 12:48 PM

Only kind of?

Ok, true. She's incredibly hot. Wonder if she'll show up on Torchwood next season because it's going to come out before Doctor Who's next season. Wouldn't surprise me if she did.

Are you half blind as well as half deaf?

*great big smiley to show I'm just kiddin' ya*

Banned!

Or not.

Spike-X

08-04-2008, 02:08 PM

Ok, true. She's incredibly hot. Wonder if she'll show up on Torchwood next season because it's going to come out before Doctor Who's next season. Wouldn't surprise me if she did.

Gah! I hope not.

Unless there's a scene with her and Gwen making out.

Captain Jim

08-04-2008, 02:45 PM

Actually, Freema Aygeman has jumped ship to ITV to star in "Law and Order: London", and all five scripts have had to be rewritten to accomedate for her abcense.

Do you have a link for that?

blackphoenix

08-04-2008, 02:46 PM

I just saw the season finale on Friday and.....well, the entire affair was 50/50 for me.
First, that "use the regenration energy to heal myself and then pass the remaining energy into my spare hand so that I don't completely regenerate" thing was total crap. I was hoping he was just going to regenerate like how Jenny did, healing but not changing bodies, but it was not to be. Plus, that set up that entire stupid second Doctor thing, which I absolutely loathed. The remainder of the ep was pretty cool, standard Dalek fighting action. That whole DoctorDonna thing had the potential to be cool, but it confused the hells outta me(I gotta re-watch the tape of that episode...someday). I also missed the entire "second Doctor commits genocide thing," as it seems the world entire always decides to come round whenever Who is on. My favorite bit in the whole episode was that shot of the Doctor and all of his companions ringing the control pannel of the Tardis and controlling it together....a truly magic moment!

And then it all went to shit.

After all that pining for Rose in season 3, he just dumps her back in that parallel world with his stupid half human one hearted double. Why couldn't she stay on Earth? Did he ever ask her what SHE wanted? And then he forced her to babysit his clone, a.k.a. Rose's consolation prize. If the love of my life told me to bugger off to another reality with a clone of herself, I'd be well pissed! "You can't have me, but you can shag my clone!" :rolleyes: And why was Doc so angry with the clone? "He commited genocide!" Yeah, but who was it that wiped out the ENTIRE DALEK FLEET AND GALLIFREY during the Time War? Rhymes with "Proctor... " Billie Piper was right, this series did make me cry...but they were tears of bitterness!:mad:

I knew Donna was leaving the series, but....surely, the Doctor could have found a way to let "DoctorDonna" keep her memories! Having her return to the mundane Donna she was during the Runaway Bride was a fate worse than death! And so now, he's alone. Again. I'm starting to think he prefers solitude....

blackphoenix

08-04-2008, 02:50 PM

double post! soory.

blackphoenix

08-04-2008, 02:53 PM

And THIS
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/05_02/ctateDM2005_468x577.jpg
is probably all a lot of men feel they need to know.

GEEZUS......:eek:
Again, I say I would NEVER kick Catherine Tate out of bed.....:evilsmile:

Cyke

08-04-2008, 03:24 PM

Most of it, yes, then with bits that are really good. So it goes Lame Rushed Crap! Good Bit! Lame Rushed Crap! Good Bit! More Crap With Brazen Emotional Manipulation! Good Bit! Really Good Bit! Oh Fuck, Doctor-Donna, Shit Factor 9! More Emotional Manipulation! Brilliant Bit! Oooh, Cybermen.

The final end for Donna is brilliant and heartbreaking but bollocks to Doctor-Donna. It makes no sense. And not even in a fun way, it's "look the character is babbling a lot and then Daleks blow up, isn't it FUN!" - no, it's shite, and you're doing this just after the Daleks neutralised every other plot against them. It almost undermines Donna's mindwipe because it comes off like they thought "right, Donna will forget everything" and then tried looking for a solution while thinking "fuck, how do I get out of this corner I've painted myself into with the Daleks being this strong?".

Agreed about how they defeated the Daleks, but I suppose one could argue that the true climax of the story wasn't the defeat of the Daleks, but rather the Doctor's mindwipe of Donna. If viewed in that context, maybe then the Daleks shouldn't be viewed as the focus but as a means to show Donna's fall. If it's in that regard, then I myself forgive the writing a bit more, especially since it led to the scene with Tennant and Cribbins (and I cheered when Tennant snapped at Donna's mom).

Of course, that's not to dismiss the whole "I can type 100 wpm of DOOM" solution. And the TARDIS moving the planet is far-fetched, even for Who.

Dark_Master

08-04-2008, 05:36 PM

Do you have a link for that?It's from a couple of weeks ago but here you go (found it in the Doctor Who News Page (http://www.gallifreyone.com/news.php))

In addition to filming the new remake of the Terry Nation series The Survivors, her appearance as Tattycoram in Dickens' Little Dorrit and rumours that she will be appearing in the upcoming third series of Torchwood, it was announced today that Freema Agyeman will be starring in the new ITV production Law and Order: London.

Agyeman will be playing the main prosecutor in the show. Her co-stars include Coronation Street's Bradley Walsh and Battlestar Galactica's Jamie Bamber. According to Bamber, "The show is [with] London judiciary and London cops," said Bamber. "It's got the same premise as the original American Law and Order, same everything, just with a UK production company and UK actors."

Showrunner for the new series is Chris Chibnall, former head writer of Torchwood. Filming is to begin next month.

Charles RB

08-04-2008, 05:58 PM

I truly hope, and futilely, that the Survivors remake doesn't suck.

I knew Donna was leaving the series, but....surely, the Doctor could have found a way to let "DoctorDonna" keep her memories!

Well, yeah - he could've let her die.

Which would've been a less horrible fate and what she wanted rather than forget everything, soooo...

Agreed about how they defeated the Daleks, but I suppose one could argue that the true climax of the story wasn't the defeat of the Daleks, but rather the Doctor's mindwipe of Donna. If viewed in that context, maybe then the Daleks shouldn't be viewed as the focus but as a means to show Donna's fall.

Yeah, but she doesn't do much rising in the story until suddenly "*ZAP* Doctor-Donna I rock BLBLBLBLBLBL!". Before that, the focus was entirely on the Daleks.

king mob

08-04-2008, 06:03 PM

By the way, there is no need to remake Survivors as it stands as a classic & is one of those series (see also rumoured remakes of Gangsters & The Singing Detective) that should be left as it is.

Cyke

08-04-2008, 06:20 PM

Yeah, but she doesn't do much rising in the story until suddenly "*ZAP* Doctor-Donna I rock BLBLBLBLBLBL!". Before that, the focus was entirely on the Daleks.

Hey, I didn't say the writing was consistent :)

Besides, in Stolen Earth, she impressed the Doctor by holding her own against the head of the Shadow Proclamation and helping to crack the mystery, despite her feeling disheartened. That could be seen as part of her rising. Maybe. I dunno.

Captain Jim

08-04-2008, 07:47 PM

It's from a couple of weeks ago but here you go (found it in the Doctor Who News Page (http://www.gallifreyone.com/news.php))

But that doesn't say anything about her being written out of Torchwood. It actually says, "In addition to ... rumours that she will be appearing in the upcoming third series of Torchwood, it was announced today that Freema Agyeman will be starring in the new ITV production Law and Order: London.

king mob

08-05-2008, 04:17 AM

So far the only source for the Ageyman leaving rumours is The Sun. Say no more.

Charles RB

08-05-2008, 04:31 AM

By the way, there is no need to remake Survivors as it stands as a classic

Hell yeah. (But now I imagine scenes of characters finding their family and friends dead with Murray Gold's score wanking all over it)

God, I suddenly want to watch more of it. Bloody Uni library DVD conked out after just two eps...

So far the only source for the Ageyman leaving rumours is The Sun. Say no more.

:frown:

Besides, in Stolen Earth, she impressed the Doctor by holding her own against the head of the Shadow Proclamation

I didn't like that bit. The Shadow head person seemed to suddenly go patronising solely to do that "Donna holds her own" bit.

And oh god, the Doctor leaving them, passing up help and firepower that could've stopped the Daleks earlier and saved lives and he was GRINNING while he did it. What a berk.

ZT4

08-05-2008, 05:03 AM

So far the only source for the Ageyman leaving rumours is The Sun. Say no more.

Yeah, the same paper that leaked out about every legit plot twist amongst the B.S, I'll take their word in every way possible thankyou.

king mob

08-05-2008, 06:01 AM

Hell yeah. (But now I imagine scenes of characters finding their family and friends dead with Murray Gold's score wanking all over it)

Oh god it will be exactly like that, with really fast edits to make it look 'edgy' & 'cool'. They'll be a HUGE scene where virtually everyone on the planet dies as well.

God, I suddenly want to watch more of it. Bloody Uni library DVD conked out after just two eps...

Search the rest out. It's one of the jewels of 70's British telefantasy.

king mob

08-05-2008, 06:04 AM

Yeah, the same paper that leaked out about every legit plot twist amongst the B.S, I'll take their word in every way possible thankyou.

So you'll be enjoying Lily Allen making a guest appearance in the specials? I hope you enjoyed Ben Kingsley's performance as Davros as well?

Yes, The Sun did manage to get some stories right but it's the fucking Sun, you shouldn't believe a word of what they print until on the rare occasions it actually happens.

Cyke

08-05-2008, 04:12 PM

And oh god, the Doctor leaving them, passing up help and firepower that could've stopped the Daleks earlier and saved lives and he was GRINNING while he did it. What a berk.

That's the Doctor's modus operandi, though. Even the older Doctors only begrudgingly worked with forces like UNIT. That's what makes the Doctor unique amongst all the other heroes on TV, he tries to use as little force as possible. The fact that he saved 27 planets without the help of a major military force (let's face it, Earth was screwed) is a feat onto itself.

mattx110

08-05-2008, 08:50 PM

Two things bother me, one, still the "one of them will die" means that Caan was prophesizing the Daleks would lose and the Doctor would lose one person (IE: he wouldn't lose the planet Earth!!! or the entirety of existence). So... Daleks come off as pretty stupid here, and the Doctor kinda dense for not going "sh*t, I can do anything and only one of these people will die, if it's Jack, he's coming back anyway, those are good odds" and dances happy dance.

Two, in the season 3 finale Martha says "his name is the Doctor"... No it's not...

Ontir

08-05-2008, 09:52 PM

Maybe "one of them" means one of the Tennant Doctors!

"the Doctor" is his name, as much as "Superman" is Superman's name.

Cyke

08-05-2008, 09:55 PM

Two, in the season 3 finale Martha says "his name is the Doctor"... No it's not...

Well, the point of having everyone pray at the same time was to focus all their mental power into one channel, him being the Doctor. And he'd be more recognizable as such. Besides, he never tells his real name anyway.

Ontir brings up a good example: DC Earth is far more aware of Superman than they are of Clark Kent or Kal-El. So if Clark found himself in the same situation as the Doctor, the world would chant Superman, since that's where all the stories and legend comes from in their minds.

Charles RB

08-06-2008, 06:18 AM

The fact that he saved 27 planets without the help of a major military force (let's face it, Earth was screwed) is a feat onto itself.

But he didn't. He failed. It was Donna that did it, and then only due to a random act that could easily have gone the other way. Everything the Doctor and his non-Donna allies did failed to work.

(On top of which he makes a big deal about using as little force as possible but then nearly always resorts to destruction and mass murder)

Stressfactor

08-06-2008, 07:04 AM

*Meanwhile*.....Lack of a weekly "Doctor Who" fix until Christmas has sent me back to my local library where, lo and behold, I have discovered that they've purchased several new DW audios!

Reign of Terror
Evil of the Daleks
Death Comes to Time

I also checked out "The Daleks Master Plan" to listen to again.... You know, I don't care how many other fans and reviewers spit on 'The Feast of Steven' from a great height I LOVE that episode! I adore the silly, slapstick comedy and I wish to God it still existed so I could SEE all the crazy antics instead of just imagining what they must have looked like.

mattx110

08-06-2008, 04:46 PM

Well, the point of having everyone pray at the same time was to focus all their mental power into one channel, him being the Doctor. And he'd be more recognizable as such. Besides, he never tells his real name anyway.

Ontir brings up a good example: DC Earth is far more aware of Superman than they are of Clark Kent or Kal-El. So if Clark found himself in the same situation as the Doctor, the world would chant Superman, since that's where all the stories and legend comes from in their minds.
I woulda prefered another "he's called the Doctor". Superman isn't his title, it's his name. It doesn't really matter.

I hope we've moved from "prayer session" finale, to "massive conference call" to something that doesn't make the entire human race on Earth do something at the same time... The Doctor is very demanding sometimes.
But he didn't. He failed. It was Donna that did it, and then only due to a random act that could easily have gone the other way. Everything the Doctor and his non-Donna allies did failed to work.

(On top of which he makes a big deal about using as little force as possible but then nearly always resorts to destruction and mass murder)
Donna did it using a piece of his consciousness... That's gotta be partial credit. This Doctor's gone a bit soft since his "no second chances" thing, and it's kinda Donna that did that to him, more than Rose (despite him pawning off his hand-baby off to her to lighten him up... I hope there's an alternate universe Donna to finish the job).

edit: also, I've accidentily purchased every piece of clothing I'd need for McCoy's Doctor Who Movie outfit. I'm gonna have to try it all together.

Cyke

08-06-2008, 05:15 PM

I woulda prefered another "he's called the Doctor". Superman isn't his title, it's his name. It doesn't really matter.

I hope we've moved from "prayer session" finale, to "massive conference call" to something that doesn't make the entire human race on Earth do something at the same time... The Doctor is very demanding sometimes.

Donna did it using a piece of his consciousness... That's gotta be partial credit. This Doctor's gone a bit soft since his "no second chances" thing, and it's kinda Donna that did that to him, more than Rose (despite him pawning off his hand-baby off to her to lighten him up... I hope there's an alternate universe Donna to finish the job).

I want to add to your point that this is a post-War Doctor. He's very very tired of violence as a result of it. Violence is a necessity in his life, but he doesn't have to (want to) add to it.

Besides, if the Shadow Proclamation were hugely powerful, who knows what they could do in a pure shoot out? What if they have planet-destroying technology? That sort of tech really goes against the Doctor's character. There'd be even more bloodshed, and quite a few of the planets that were stolen were populated (Klom and Pyrovillia, to name a few).

Ontir

08-06-2008, 07:26 PM

I just watched the Deadly Assassin and was really surprised how much of a sequel to War Games it really is, including the Doctor facing off with the Master's proxies in a nearly identical landscape.

It's also interesting to see the Time Lords as a far less omnipotent people. They've lost about as much of their ancient history as we have, even though they COULD go back and watch it all happen at any moment.

We also get a greater sense of the citizens of Gallifrey, as opposed to the Time Lords. The "regulars" must chafe under their control!

king mob

08-07-2008, 02:13 AM

Deadly Assassin is a glorious bit of Who & virtually perfect, but it did spell the beginning of the end of the Hinchcliffe/Holmes era due to the outcry (co-ordinated by Mary Whitehouse) over the violence in the story.
The programme had been criticised in it's past over violence but Dedaly Assassin was the last straw for many within the BBC.

Spike-X

08-07-2008, 02:17 AM

I've accidentily purchased every piece of clothing I'd need for McCoy's Doctor Who Movie outfit. I'm gonna have to try it all together.

Since when did McCoy wear a bandana?

Matt

08-07-2008, 02:59 AM

even though they COULD go back and watch it all happen at any moment.

No, they can't.

Ontir

08-07-2008, 11:50 AM

Of course they (@ the point of "the Deadly Assassins") can. That's what all those thousands of TARDISes are for!

Charles RB

08-07-2008, 01:06 PM

What if they have planet-destroying technology? That sort of tech really goes against the Doctor's character.

He blew up Skaro in 1988.

Ontir

08-07-2008, 01:40 PM

Ugoff

08-07-2008, 01:48 PM

Stressfactor

08-07-2008, 02:04 PM

Was that in the McCoy years? I've only seen a handful of those episodes.

Skaro was mentioned in the McCoy/McGann movie. The Doctor was bringing the Master's remains back to Gallifrey from Skaro where he was executed.

Yeah, McCoy was the one to blow up Skaro.... Although it's never really clear what happened to all the Thals. The last the Thals are seen is in "Planet of the Daleks" IIRC... But apparently at some point that Thals either all decide to pack up and go colonize somewhere else or the Daleks succeed in exterminating the lot of them.

ZT4

08-07-2008, 02:11 PM

Skaro was mentioned in the McCoy/McGann movie. The Doctor was bringing the Master's remains back to Gallifrey from Skaro where he was executed.

Oh that's a long story. If you can bear it, read "War of the Daleks", which tries to explain how Skaro is seen again (I'd go with wibbly-wobbly personally)

Russel T Davies called The Master's trial "The Act of Master Restituation", one of the many pacts made with The Daleks to appease them during the build towards the Time War.

Charles RB

08-07-2008, 04:53 PM

Oh that's a long story. If you can bear it, read "War of the Daleks", which tries to explain how Skaro is seen again

That novel got totally ignored by the Terror Firma audio drama.

Ontir

08-07-2008, 05:29 PM

Yeah, McCoy was the one to blow up Skaro.... Although it's never really clear what happened to all the Thals. The last the Thals are seen is in "Planet of the Daleks" IIRC... But apparently at some point that Thals either all decide to pack up and go colonize somewhere else or the Daleks succeed in exterminating the lot of them.

When we first saw the Daleks they were stuck inside their city. That's the ONLY reason the Thals had survived so long. Once they broke free of the city the Thals never stood a chance.

Cyke

08-07-2008, 06:45 PM

He blew up Skaro in 1988.

And the Doctor also (presumably) blew up Gallifrey as well. Do you think either Nine or Ten want to blow up another planet? He's not Mike Nelson, y'know.

That's the thing about the Doctor. He's capable of so much fury and vengence, but often opts against it because he's better than that. He also knows how to wrestle, sword fight, and break concrete with his hands, but I doubt he'd crack someone's neck. Just because he can, sometimes means he won't.

Ontir

08-07-2008, 07:11 PM

Very well said.

mattx110

08-07-2008, 07:43 PM

Since when did McCoy wear a bandana?
Black tie, red vest, tan jacket... The bandana is only for special occassions.
He blew up Skaro in 1988.
But it came back... they rebuilt a planet and gave it the same name because it was so damn lucky the first time.

Or the Doctor didn't mind visiting Skaro one last time to see the Master executed because he knew it'd be exploded soon by his younger self.

Captain Jim

08-07-2008, 10:25 PM

king mob

08-08-2008, 03:32 AM

Here are some US release dates:

Torchwood Series 2 - September 16 ($79.98)
Sarah Jane Adventures Series 1 - October 7 ($49.98)
Infinite Quest (animated Doctor & Martha) - November 18 ($9.98)
Doctor Who Series 4 - November 18 ($99.99)

Curiously, I think some of these actually come out in the US before they come out in the UK. :biggrin:

Nope, we've had Infinite Quest for ages, Torchwood series 2 came out a few months ago, though you are getting SJA before us.

While we're talking DVD's, Trial Of A Time Lord has been delayed til September & The War Machines has been moved up to an August release. No complaints from me on that one.

Pól Rua

08-08-2008, 04:31 AM

marshal99

08-08-2008, 05:38 AM

The finale was good but some of the dialouge I couldnt understand and I didnt like what they did to Donna in the end. That was really lame but sad and moving, so I guess I will forgive the writers. I wonder when the doctor will get a male sidekick. Maybe they can do both m/f next season.

Just got to watching this new doctor who series a week or so back , and i just finished the season 4 finale. :biggrin:
Can't stand Donna , the loud annoying bossy old maid. At least they closed the rose chapter with that goodbye , another lonely existance for the doctor - hope he'll find another pretty girl for his next companion - no more frumpy old maid like donna. :wink:

Deathstroke

08-08-2008, 06:35 AM

Here are some US release dates:

Torchwood Series 2 - September 16 ($79.98)
Sarah Jane Adventures Series 1 - October 7 ($49.98)
Infinite Quest (animated Doctor & Martha) - November 18 ($9.98)
Doctor Who Series 4 - November 18 ($99.99)

Curiously, I think some of these actually come out in the US before they come out in the UK. :biggrin:

I liked both Torchwood and Sarah Jane, but I don't think I'll be buying either on DVD. I will be getting Doctor Who Series 4 though.

Stressfactor

08-08-2008, 07:36 AM

While we're talking DVD's, Trial Of A Time Lord has been delayed til September

Yeah, I'm not exactly waiting on tenterhooks for that.

Since Ontir brought up "The Deadly Assassin" -- now THAT is one I would like out on DVD sooner rather than later.

And I know the early stuff requires more time to clean up and remaster but I DO wish they would get more Hartnells in the pipeline.

Ontir

08-08-2008, 09:33 AM

They should put the War Games and the Deadly Assassin out as a 2 disk set as they go so nicely together.

Does anyone know what the thinking was in having the Master regenerate as a burned corpse? He was fine as he was, but was forced to regenerate then BANG! scorched corpse walking.

Stressfactor

08-08-2008, 01:26 PM

Actually, we don't really get that much from the Master between Pertwee and Baker. The last the character was heard from he was still behind bars in Pertwee's run.

IIRC Delgado had wanted out of the role and there were plans being made to have the Master die in an explosion (after revealing that he was, apparently, the personification of all the Doctor's darker impulses) in the next series but during the break Delgado was filming a movie and was killed in a car accident.

Since Delgado was really well liked by all the cast and crew of "Doctor Who" the decision was made NOT to recast the role and instead to just let the Master quietly fade out from the series.

Hinchcliffe and Holmes were both leaving the show after the series with "The Deadly Assassin" and, while they wanted to use the Master again they didn't want the incoming production team to be saddled with ONE particular actor or portrayal. They figured if they depicted the Master as a burned husk looking for power and the ability to restore himself then if a later production team wanted to use the Master again THEY could pick an actor they wanted potentially long-term more easily and they could also refine the character's personality. Which is exactly what happened when the later production team hired Anthony Ainley and decided to write the Master as more oily but still just as power hungry.

As far as the script was concerned... I don't recall any mention that the Master regenerated between "Delgado-Master" and "Crispy-Master". I always thought that the implication was that the Delgado-master eventually escaped from UNIT custody and fled Earth because, by that time, the Doctor had mostly left Earth as well and it just wasn't any fun if he didn't have the Doctor to kick around. Then, somewhere running around on his own nefarious adventures the Master got extra-crispied but he was already on his last life so he didn't regenerate. Instead, the Master clung to life as a burned husk until he was able to steal the life of another... "Keeper of Traken".

And as for a two disc set for War Games and Deadly Assassin -- it would probably have to be a FOUR disc set at least considering that the War Games is a massive 10 parter(!) (Second only to "The Daleks Master Plan" in length) and Deadly Assassin is a four parter... then PLUS all the nice little extras... We'd be looking at a box set here.

Ontir

08-08-2008, 01:54 PM

Okay, that all makes sense. I mistook this clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03kyVnM3cas) on youtube as actual canon.

Stressfactor

08-08-2008, 02:43 PM

Okay, that all makes sense. I mistook this clip (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03kyVnM3cas) on youtube as actual canon.

Interesting creation and fairly well done but in the end just a fan created vid. There are actually quite a few of them out there.

A YouTube guy called BabelColour has created a kind of "Time Crash"/"School Reunion" mash-up thing so that the 10th Doctor meets the 4th Doctor. It works surprisingly well....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4knUJKUNbqI

Ontir

08-08-2008, 03:18 PM

That's QUITE GOOD!

I was just waiting for Tennat to say "SARAH JANE! MY SARAH JANE!"

Babelcolour also did a very interesting Time War (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT5ziiMcMjQ&feature=related) clip which may be the only version we ever see.

ZT4

08-08-2008, 04:53 PM

The Time War videos on Youtube are great and all, but I wish they'd inject some of the material heard in the Big Finish audios, especially The Sixth Doctor audio "The Apocalypse Element" where The Daleks actually DO invade Gallifrey for the first time (and it's seen as a driving influence behind the later negotiations)

rick

08-08-2008, 04:58 PM

McCoy. Excellent Doctor. Terrible Scripts.

Terrible.

No, really. TERRIBLE.

I don't know Pól, that last two season had some great episodes.

Remembrance of the Daleks and Battlefield are two of my very favorite episodes.

LtMarvel

08-08-2008, 05:02 PM

Wow...the Dr. Who DVDs are way pricy.

Ontir

08-08-2008, 05:11 PM

I don't know Pól, that last two season had some great episodes.

Remembrance of the Daleks and Battlefield are two of my very favorite episodes.

Verity Lambert said of that era that she could see why it didn't work, because no one believed in what they were doing. From the bits I've seen recently that seems to be the case. I think the BBC made a major mistake dumping Colin Baker. He had sorted out a very interesting Doctor and had planned to stay a long while - longer in fact than Tom Baker was his announcement at a Who con I attended - and the arc of his Doctor from arrogant and judgmental to a more likable person would be interesting to watch. I also think he intended to draw more from Troughton which would have been welcome.

Captain Jim

08-08-2008, 05:34 PM

Wow...the Dr. Who DVDs are way pricy.

If you're talking about my post, the prices I gave were manufacturer's suggested retail price. Many places discount them significantly.

Captain Jim

08-08-2008, 05:46 PM

Curiously, I think some of these actually come out in the US before they come out in the UK. Nope, we've had Infinite Quest for ages, Torchwood series 2 came out a few months ago, though you are getting SJA before us.

Well, I did say some. I also had the impression we were getting Doctor Who Series Four before you, but now I can't find where I read that

LtMarvel

08-08-2008, 06:17 PM

Other full season dramas like Smallville and Veronica Mars retail for around $39.99 a season.

Dr. Who is waaaay pricy.

ZT4

08-08-2008, 08:54 PM

I don't know Pól, that last two season had some great episodes.

Remembrance of the Daleks and Battlefield are two of my very favorite episodes.

Glad SOMEBODY likes "Battlefield", it's one of those serials that noone in the fandom is allowed to like, up there with "Time Flight" "Timelash" and "Silver Nemesis" (which I love). I for one also enjoy "Battlefield", and a lot of it remained referenced in the NA novels

Throw in "Ghost Light", "The Curse of Fenric", and "Survival" and McCoy is by leaps and bounds the first "real" Doctor next to Tom to cement a real sense of purpose for the character.

Stressfactor

08-09-2008, 08:06 AM

Other full season dramas like Smallville and Veronica Mars retail for around $39.99 a season.

Dr. Who is waaaay pricy.

Keep in mind, many of the Doctor Who videos also require waaaaaay more clean-up work than "Smallville" or "Veronica Mars". Modern shows are shot digital ready practically. It's less than nothing to pop them into a DVD and shove it out there.

Older stuff -- even stuff from the 1980's -- requires some color correction and clean-up work and transfer from videotape format into a digital format without too much data loss.

You should visit the Doctor Who Restoration Team website and see some examples of the work they've done. Incredibly, some episodes of Pertwee stories from the 1970's only exist in black and white and the Restoration Team made the choice to actually colorize the episodes -- which, in order to to it right -- requires painstaking, frame-by-frame work.

The DVD's also include a lot of extras -- not just commentaries but original documentaries and interviews, discovered archival footage and more.

Yes they are pricey but you get a lot of bang for your buck. I've never been disappointed. Even the episodes that are not so good (*cough* Time Flight *cough*) can have hilarious commentary.

king mob

08-09-2008, 08:06 AM

Since Ontir brought up "The Deadly Assassin" -- now THAT is one I would like out on DVD sooner rather than later.

Next year apparently.

And I know the early stuff requires more time to clean up and remaster but I DO wish they would get more Hartnells in the pipeline.

There's not many more Hartnell's left but I believe The Sensorites is on the Restoration Team's to-do list next.

Stressfactor

08-09-2008, 08:08 AM

Glad SOMEBODY likes "Battlefield", it's one of those serials that noone in the fandom is allowed to like, up there with "Time Flight" "Timelash" and "Silver Nemesis" (which I love).

*Raises hand* I LIKE "Battlefield". I'm well aware of its flaws but I still LIKE it. However, "Time Flight" is... weird... to me.

king mob

08-09-2008, 08:13 AM

king mob

08-09-2008, 08:31 AM

Verity Lambert said of that era that she could see why it didn't work, because no one believed in what they were doing. From the bits I've seen recently that seems to be the case.

Those stories are incredibly poor & Lambert was right but there were reasons; a poor script editor, the BBC suffering a change in management & JNT was struggling to keep the programme alive. So yes, nobody believed that what they were doing was any good but there were still people involved who loved the programme.

I think the BBC made a major mistake dumping Colin Baker. He had sorted out a very interesting Doctor and had planned to stay a long while - longer in fact than Tom Baker was his announcement at a Who con I attended - and the arc of his Doctor from arrogant and judgmental to a more likable person would be interesting to watch. I also think he intended to draw more from Troughton which would have been welcome.

Baker was a casting mistake, the public didn't like his portrayal (which was an interesting idea) but yes, Baker wanted to break his namesakes record of seven years in the role. Baker was a decent if unspectacular character actor who never stood a chance once he was put in that horrendous costume which instantly alienated a big chunk of the audience.

The stunt casting of Bonnie Langford also drove a nail into Baker's coffin. I can see why JNT did it, but somebody should have said something to put him off doing that.

Baker (and McCoy) were the target of the 'any old fucker with an Equity card' line in this Walliams/Gatiss sketch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7Y4gWxiPHo)from the BBC's Doctor Who night in 1999.

king mob

08-09-2008, 08:34 AM

Well, I did say some. I also had the impression we were getting Doctor Who Series Four before you, but now I can't find where I read that

Series 4 is out similtanously in the UK & US.

king mob

08-09-2008, 08:40 AM

Keep in mind, many of the Doctor Who videos also require waaaaaay more clean-up work than "Smallville" or "Veronica Mars". Modern shows are shot digital ready practically. It's less than nothing to pop them into a DVD and shove it out there.

The new series disc prices take the piss because the BBC know they'll sell in time for Christmas. 60 quid for a Who boxset is ridiculous when other BBC sets retail for 20 quid less normally.
You should visit the Doctor Who Restoration Team website and see some examples of the work they've done. Incredibly, some episodes of Pertwee stories from the 1970's only exist in black and white and the Restoration Team made the choice to actually colorize the episodes -- which, in order to to it right -- requires painstaking, frame-by-frame work.

Ambassadors Of Death is the first one out using this new process, though it's a fairly naff Quatermass rip off.

king mob

08-09-2008, 08:43 AM

*Raises hand* I LIKE "Battlefield". I'm well aware of its flaws but I still LIKE it. However, "Time Flight" is... weird... to me.

Time Flight is terrible, makes no sense & is so crap it's not true but at least there's a lovely panto feel about the whole thing. Timelash is dismal rubbish & a prime example of how lost the programme was at the time.

Ontir

08-09-2008, 09:20 AM

Those stories are incredibly poor & Lambert was right but there were reasons; a poor script editor, the BBC suffering a change in management & JNT was struggling to keep the programme alive. So yes, nobody believed that what they were doing was any good but there were still people involved who loved the programme.

That's one of those weird American to British things. If a program on American TV was doing as well as Doctor Who did for the BBC there's no way in hell it would've been in such danger. I think One Tree Hill is a shining example of that. The balance of course being that a show that is long beyond viable will be kept going indefinitely if an audience is willing to sit through it, where British shows will say, "We're done!" and walk away with some dignity.

Baker was a casting mistake, the public didn't like his portrayal (which was an interesting idea) but yes, Baker wanted to break his namesakes record of seven years in the role. Baker was a decent if unspectacular character actor who never stood a chance once he was put in that horrendous costume which instantly alienated a big chunk of the audience.

The costume certainly didn't help and I know he wondered why the Doctor couldn't change his clothes. Watching bits of C. Baker again recently, I found him far more interesting than I remembered. I think, had they changed his clothes, the audience would've opened up to him.

The stunt casting of Bonnie Langford also drove a nail into Baker's coffin. I can see why JNT did it, but somebody should have said something to put him off doing that.

How "stunt" was the casting of Langford? Is she like Emma Thompson in Britain or something? I looked her up and the only thing she'd done other than Who that I recognize is Bugsy Malone. Personally I liked Mel. her introduction was rather weird as the Doctor is supposed to be reunited with her when she shows up at his trial, but we'd not seen her before.

Baker (and McCoy) were the target of the 'any old fucker with an Equity card' line in this Walliams/Gatiss sketch (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7Y4gWxiPHo)from the BBC's Doctor Who night in 1999.

Funny enough, but again, I don't think that's QUITE how it went! :tongue:

king mob

08-09-2008, 01:41 PM

That's one of those weird American to British things. If a program on American TV was doing as well as Doctor Who did for the BBC there's no way in hell it would've been in such danger. I think One Tree Hill is a shining example of that. The balance of course being that a show that is long beyond viable will be kept going indefinitely if an audience is willing to sit through it, where British shows will say, "We're done!" and walk away with some dignity.

American programmes have the target of being syndicated, while British programmes don't so it is easier for creators so make finite programmes with a distinct end.

The problem Who had in the mid 80's was Michael Grade becoming head of programming for BBC 1, and he hated Who, (when he was on Room 101 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_101_(TV_series)) his clip to illustrate how much he hated Who was from Warriors Of The Deep) thinking that the programme was a waste of money & had outlived it's lifespan. He did have a point but the programme was still pulling in 6 million people, which in those days before Sky and multi-channel telly was considered poor, but is now roughly what an average episode of the new series pulls in and that's a ratings success.

Grade knew he couldn't get rid of Who easily so he stuck it up against Coronation Street (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronation_Street), which is suicide for any programme. It was a deliberate 'fuck you' by Grade to the makers of Who and it worked as it helped kill off the casual viewer along with the programme's collapse in quality & obsession with continuity post-Davison. There's a lot to be said on Ian Levine's influence on JNT & his role in the programme, as it was Levine who steered the programme to become more continuity driven rather than focus on the story itself.

One possibilty that could have saved Who would have been to give it to the children's deparatment, (Who was always an oddity in that it's a childrens programme made by the drama depertment) but that would have meant a huge decrease in budget.

In the end it was right it died when it did; it had lost the casual viewer, scripts were poor & it wasn't really much fun anymore. The odd half decent story hid the fact the programme had outlived it's lifespan & it really was only pandering

The costume certainly didn't help and I know he wondered why the Doctor couldn't change his clothes. Watching bits of C. Baker again recently, I found him far more interesting than I remembered. I think, had they changed his clothes, the audience would've opened up to him.

Possibly, Baker himself has said that he doesn't blame the audience for instantly hating him in that costume, and even JNT in his latter years said it was a huge mistake.

How "stunt" was the casting of Langford? Is she like Emma Thompson in Britain or something? I looked her up and the only thing she'd done other than Who that I recognize is Bugsy Malone. Personally I liked Mel. her introduction was rather weird as the Doctor is supposed to be reunited with her when she shows up at his trial, but we'd not seen her before.

Bonnie Langford is a star of the time from variety & childrens telly. JNT always wanted to be a BBC variety producer and tried to bring as many aspects of this into the show as he could.
The problem is that most of the audience knew her as Violet Elizabeth in the TV version of the Just William (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_William)stories, and they found her annoying because of that & her habit of generally being a bit crap.

Stressfactor

08-09-2008, 06:04 PM

There's not many more Hartnell's left but I believe The Sensorites is on the Restoration Team's to-do list next.

There are more complete Hartnells yet to be released than you may think....

1) The Keys of Marinus
2) The Sensorites (which you indicated is probably upcoming)
3) Planet of Giants
4) The Rescue
5) The Romans
6) The Space Museum
7) The Chase
8) The Ark
9) The Gunfighters
10) The War Machines

Plus SOMETHING has to be done with "The Reign of Terror" and "The Tenth Planet" -- neither one was on the "Lost in Time" Hartnell set and both are missing parts. I'm hoping "Tenth Planet" at least gets the animation treatement or something since it's only missing one episode... which WOULD have to be the last one with the first regeneration.

No, it's the Troughtons that there aren't many left for. I think only "The War Games" and "The Dominators" are the only surviving complete stories that haven't hit shelves yet.

Stressfactor

08-09-2008, 06:06 PM

Time Flight is terrible, makes no sense & is so crap it's not true but at least there's a lovely panto feel about the whole thing.

The Cast commentary on the DVD is hilarious though. It's also far more enjoyable to watch when one has had a glass of wine or two... :wink:

You know, as for Colin Baker... yeah the costume sucked but I DO think his portrayal could also have worked if they had moved his version of the Doctor from jerk to compassionate faster. They took TOO long in the process and people got tired and bored and also were just turned off by him. I've listened to a few of the audios and C. Baker really DOES have the charm to be the Doctor but they took too long on TV in trying to get to that point.

I could also lay some blame at Nicola Bryant's feet. I've seen interviews -- she's a nice woman -- but the scripts did Peri no favors and (while I know Baker and Bryant apparently had a good working relationship) there is just no... connection... between the Doctor and Peri onscreen. THe best Doctor/Companion combos were ones where you could tell the actors involved just clicked together and Baker and Bryant never seemed to click. Granted, Baker and Langford and later Langford and McCoy never quite clicked either...

Ontir

08-09-2008, 08:46 PM

I think one of Bryant's problems was that she was so focused on maintaining her American accent that she wasn't able to do much else. She was also the most TnA of all the companions, with which she sometimes seemed uncomfortable.

the Romans is one of the few Hartnell stories I've seen, oddly enough. That along with an Un-Earthly Child and the Daleks are pretty much my Hartnell experience.

king mob

08-10-2008, 06:37 AM

There are more complete Hartnells yet to be released than you may think....

1) The Keys of Marinus
2) The Sensorites (which you indicated is probably upcoming)
3) Planet of Giants
4) The Rescue
5) The Romans
6) The Space Museum
7) The Chase
8) The Ark
9) The Gunfighters
10) The War Machines

The War Machines is out this month.

Plus SOMETHING has to be done with "The Reign of Terror" and "The Tenth Planet" -- neither one was on the "Lost in Time" Hartnell set and both are missing parts. I'm hoping "Tenth Planet" at least gets the animation treatement or something since it's only missing one episode... which WOULD have to be the last one with the first regeneration.

Tenth Planet was rumoured to be getting the animated treatment but Cosgove Hall have said they've only done some pre-production work on The Ice Warriors before they got the project pulled.

king mob

08-10-2008, 06:48 AM

The Cast commentary on the DVD is hilarious though. It's also far more enjoyable to watch when one has had a glass of wine or two... :wink:

Davison gives good commentary, as does Tom Baker who is just barking mad. The Tennant commentary on The Five Doctors is fun if only to hear him quickly turn into a raging fanboy after 20 minutes or so.

You know, as for Colin Baker... yeah the costume sucked but I DO think his portrayal could also have worked if they had moved his version of the Doctor from jerk to compassionate faster. They took TOO long in the process and people got tired and bored and also were just turned off by him. I've listened to a few of the audios and C. Baker really DOES have the charm to be the Doctor but they took too long on TV in trying to get to that point.

Baker was familiar to audiences for playing stuffy bastards, so when he started playing the Doctor as a stuffy bastard it alienated audiences who had gotten used to Davison's portrayal. It didn't help that his first story was bloody awful either.

I could also lay some blame at Nicola Bryant's feet. I've seen interviews -- she's a nice woman -- but the scripts did Peri no favors and (while I know Baker and Bryant apparently had a good working relationship) there is just no... connection... between the Doctor and Peri onscreen. THe best Doctor/Companion combos were ones where you could tell the actors involved just clicked together and Baker and Bryant never seemed to click. Granted, Baker and Langford and later Langford and McCoy never quite clicked either...

Bryant was fine but she was there purely to have her tits nearly fall out and have cameras shoved down her clevage. She never really moved on from that & filled the role of 'something for the dads' that the Doctor's companion sometimes was.

king mob

08-10-2008, 06:59 AM

I think one of Bryant's problems was that she was so focused on maintaining her American accent that she wasn't able to do much else. She was also the most TnA of all the companions, with which she sometimes seemed uncomfortable.

She's said she found JNT's insistance that she wear the tightest clothing possible a bit annoying, but not as annoying as trying to keep up that bloody American accent.

It was JNT, with the advice of Ian Levine who decided to have an American companion to pander to the growing American audience, in the same way bringing in Tegan was meant to cash in on the programme's popularity in Australia.

The problem was that Tegan worked because Janet Fielding was actually Australian & she clicked with Davison. Bryant never really clicked & never moved on from the nice bit of totty role.

Ontir

08-10-2008, 09:06 AM

Right. I like Bryant and it would be nice to see her come in as another character in the new series, a British character so we can see what she's capable of when not fighting her accent. The show needs a new MP from Flydell North (sp?), doesn't it?

I don't have a problem with the Doctor having non-British companions. I also think they ought to actually come to the U.S. to do an arc. The Doctor's been coming to Earth forever, it would be nice if he saw a bit more of it. Yeah, they went to "New York in the Depression" last year, but I'd love to see the Doctor show up in someplace like Watkins Glen, NY, which is absolutely stunning and a terrain that could be nicely exploited by the show. Also there've got to be enough Yank actors in and about London and even Cardiff to find ONE who can play a companion for a bit.

king mob

08-10-2008, 10:55 AM

Right. I like Bryant and it would be nice to see her come in as another character in the new series, a British character so we can see what she's capable of when not fighting her accent. The show needs a new MP from Flydell North (sp?), doesn't it?

Bryant hasn't done anything on British telly of any significance since Blackadder's Christmas Carol 20 years ago. She's also a reminder of a time when the programme was at it's lowest & Moffat has already said he's going to avoid bringing back past companions.

I don't have a problem with the Doctor having non-British companions.

There's enough American accents on British TV thanks to the wedge of imports we get, plus it alienates it's core audience of kids who'll find it easier to identify with someone who sounds like they do.

I also think they ought to actually come to the U.S. to do an arc.

Possible but it would depend on the story & cost. At 13 million quid a series it's cheap compared to American programmes, but it's one of the most expensive drama series to ever have been made by the BBC.

Also there've got to be enough Yank actors in and about London and even Cardiff to find ONE who can play a companion for a bit.
There probably is but there's enough British talent out there deserving of a break, & the last thing Who needs is the controversy over American actors coming to the UK & performing in plays in the West End of London.

Spike-X

08-10-2008, 02:36 PM

I'd love to see the Doctor show up in someplace like Watkins Glen, NY, which is absolutely stunning and a terrain that could be nicely exploited by the show.

They have a quarry?

Stressfactor

08-10-2008, 05:32 PM

Davison gives good commentary, as does Tom Baker who is just barking mad.

It's not JUST Davison it's the whole crew -- Janet Fielding and Sarah Sutton all play off of one another and they just rip the script to shreds. The thing that comes through is that they all thought "Time-Flight" was crap but they had a good time doing it because they were all such good friends on the set.

One of the best commentary moments is when Fielding and Davison are off on something about the cast or crew or something during one of Sutton's big scenes. Sarah butts in on them and with mock indignation says "Hey, I was acting my socks off over there!" Without missing a beat Fielding says something like: "Forget it Sarah, this one was FAR too gone to be saved."

I've only heard a couple of Baker's commentaries but yes, he does seem a few screws short of a hinge assembly but then again... so did his version of the Doctor.:biggrin:

LtMarvel

08-10-2008, 05:57 PM

Yeah...I'm talking about the new stuff...I wants to buy the new Dr. Who season sets, but not at twice the price of comparable stuff!

mattx110

08-10-2008, 06:05 PM

What are the "best" Colin Bakers? I don't think I've seen any yet. I enjoyed McCoy more than I guess most people do, he has a bit ruthless though.

Captain Jim

08-10-2008, 08:25 PM

Yeah...I'm talking about the new stuff...I wants to buy the new Dr. Who season sets, but not at twice the price of comparable stuff!

Is there something about science fiction? All of the Star Trek season sets retailed for a hundred bucks too (sometimes more). Or maybe it just has something to do with expected sales. A popular network program is obviously going to sell a lot more sets than a "cult program".

Stressfactor

08-10-2008, 08:33 PM

You think "Doctor Who" DVD sets are expensive? I've been wanting "Sapphire and Steel" for a year now but the blasted set never seems to sell for under $100 and there are only six discs in the whole set! AND it doesn't even have that many extras.

Ontir

08-10-2008, 09:14 PM

They have a quarry?

Maybe, I'm not sure. What they DO have is the Glen itself. It's this amazing waterway, rock hewn by water over thousands of years. It shimmers in the light on moving water and is something to behold.

My favourite Colin Baker episode is the Two Doctors (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0562969/). he's quite good and to see him paired with Troughton, not to mention "Peri" and "Jamie" getting in on the Sontaran action is a lot of fun!

Stressfactor

08-11-2008, 05:07 AM

I pretty much can't stand most of Colin Baker's television episodes. I've been buying DW DVD's for almost a year now and I've yet to buy a single C. Baker ep. -- although I will admit the "Two Doctors" is tempting but only because of Patrick Troughton as the Second Doctor... -- HOWEVER, I've listened to a couple of C. Baker's AUDIO eps as the 6th Doctor and I've actually LIKED him there.

Honestly, I think he's done his best DW work for the Big Finish audio range.

ChrisIII

08-11-2008, 08:17 AM

As for good Colin Bakers, although most of his era is pretty much mediocre, "Vengeance on Varos" "Two Doctors" and "Revelation of the Daleks" are OK. "Revelation" in particular benefits from Graeme Harper's (Caves of Androzani and a good chun k of the new series) direction and it's actually more of a Doctor-light episode. It's also Terry Molley's best turn as Davros outside the audios.

There are some ok moments in Trial of a Time Lord but overall it was pretty bad.

The best Colin Baker audios are probably Marian Conspiracy (His first solo one) Jubilee (The story which inspired "Dalek" and is written by the same writer) "The Reaping" in which the Doctor battles Cybermen and Peri's family gets involved...and Doctor Who and the Pirates, a 'musical' doctor who.

king mob

08-11-2008, 01:13 PM

The Two Doctors is actually very good & incredibly vicious & nasty, even for a Robert Homes script. Try to ignore it's Spanish setting which is incredibly distracting as it's utterly pointless.

LordEd1976

08-11-2008, 09:41 PM

The Two Doctors is actually very good & incredibly vicious & nasty, even for a Robert Homes script. Try to ignore it's Spanish setting which is incredibly distracting as it's utterly pointless.

I made the mistake of watching some of the Two Doctors while waiting for a check to come in. Its torture watching two characters walk around a Spanish town looking for good food while I have an empty fridge

ChrisIII

08-13-2008, 05:59 AM

The Classic Doctor who figures should be arriving in British stores right about now. Anybody pick them up and have any opinions?

JCAll

08-13-2008, 06:55 AM

Is there something about science fiction? All of the Star Trek season sets retailed for a hundred bucks too (sometimes more)

Because they know we'll pay it.

Stressfactor

08-13-2008, 08:39 AM

Watched "The Time Meddler" over the weekend. Really quite a fun story. It still has some drama but, overall, is more played for cleverness than dramatic tension.

I have to say that I've READ about Peter Butterworth's career in British film but never having seen any of those performances I can only judge him by what I see here. Obviously he was having a lot of fun with the role and I like that he can play it for laughs but he never takes it too far over the top -- which would have been easy to do.

It must be said that the Restoration Team has done an incredible job but there are still, sadly, moments where you can see the poor quality of the stock they had to work with -- there are some things that just cannot be fixed so matter HOW much technology you throw at it. Still, we should be grateful we've even got this since so many other stories are completely or partially missing.

I *did* feel that the extras felt a bit thin. The "Stripped for Action" bit wasn't that interesting or insightful... except for the mention of the Marvel UK Doctor Who holiday cover that an artist created that had a bunch of Daleks drinking out of a whiskey barrell and shouting "Inebriate!" -- which of course got quashed by the estate of Terry Nation... stupid, humorless dorks.

I also missed there being a "Making Of..." documentary as those had become more commenplace recently.

Still, well worth the money -- particularly since I used a discount coupon to get it. :wink:

Ontir

08-13-2008, 12:11 PM

I want to catch up on all the Time Lordiness of the original series. Can you guys tell me what episodes featured Time Lords other than the Doctor and Romana, and which Time Lords if possible?

tony ingram

08-13-2008, 12:55 PM

I want to catch up on all the Time Lordiness of the original series. Can you guys tell me what episodes featured Time Lords other than the Doctor and Romana, and which Time Lords if possible?

The Time Meddler introduced the first rogue Time Lord, and the meddling monk subsequently reappeared in The Dalek Masterplan (though most of that story only now exists as a soundtrack CD, nine of the twelve episodes having been wiped). The Time Lords are first named, and make their first collective appearance, in The War Games part ten, Troughton's last episode (one of that story's villains, the War Chief, is also a rogue Time Lord). One Time lord appears (dressed as a London businessman but floating in mid air) in Terror of the Autons, the story which also introduces the Master, but it's only a cameo. The Master, of course, is also a Time Lord and a semi-regular from then on, but the Lords themselves next appear in The Three Doctors, summoning the Doctor's past selves to aid him against insane Time Lord engineer Omega. After this, they're unseen until Planet of the Spiders, in which a retired Time Lord living as a Buddhist monk shows up, and then Genesis of the Daleks, when a lone Time Lord sends the Doctor to the time of the Daleks birth in an attempt to wipe them out. The Brain of Morbius introduces another rogue Time Lord, and the Doctor returns to Gallifrey in The Deadly Assassin, the story in which we get our first real look at Time Lord society (and in which the now familiar big collared robes first appear), and again in The Invasion of Time, in which the Sontarans invade the Time Lord home world. A failed would-be Time Lord, Drax, appears working as a small time crook in The Armageddon Factor, and another retired one, Professor Chronotis, is seen living in a Cambridge college in Shada. The Doctor returns to Gallifrey again (for another bout with Omega) in Arc of Infinity (in which Colin Baker makes his Doctor Who debut playing Commander Maxil), and yet again in The Five Doctors. Retired Time Lord Azmael is seen living on the planet Jaconda in The Twin Dilemma.Yet another rogue, the Rani, first appears in The Mark of the Rani (partnered with the Master) and later in Time and the Rani. And in between these stories, the rest of the Time Lords appear in The Trial of a Time Lord-their last collective appearance to date. Lastly, of course, we see one Time Lord in flashback in The Sound of Drums. That's it for TV appearances, though they also appear in numerous books and audios-and, of course, are frequently manipulating the Doctor from off-screen during the Pertwee and Tom and Colin Baker years.

tony ingram

08-13-2008, 01:06 PM

Oh, and just for Time Lord-y completeness: The Master debuts in Terror of the Autons, then appears in The Mind of Evil, The Claws of Axos, Colony in Space, The Daemons, The Sea Devils, The Time Monster, Frontier in Space (all played by Roger Delgado), The Deadly Assassin (Peter Pratt), The Keeper of Traken (Geoffrey Beevers/Anthony Ainley), Logopolis, Castrovalva, Time Flight, The Kings Demons, The Five Doctors, Planet of Fire, The Mark of the Rani, Trial of a Time Lord, Survival (all Anthony Ainley), Doctor Who the TV Movie (Eric Roberts) and lastly Utopia (Derek Jacobi/John Simm) and The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords (John Simm). He also appears in several novels and in some audios (played again by Geoffrey Beevers).

king mob

08-13-2008, 01:28 PM

I have to say that I've READ about Peter Butterworth's career in British film but never having seen any of those performances I can only judge him by what I see here. Obviously he was having a lot of fun with the role and I like that he can play it for laughs but he never takes it too far over the top -- which would have been easy to do.

Carry On Screaming or Carry On Up The Khyber are good places to start.
I *did* feel that the extras felt a bit thin. The "Stripped for Action" bit wasn't that interesting or insightful... except for the mention of the Marvel UK Doctor Who holiday cover that an artist created that had a bunch of Daleks drinking out of a whiskey barrell and shouting "Inebriate!" -- which of course got quashed by the estate of Terry Nation... stupid, humorless dorks.

I also missed there being a "Making Of..." documentary as those had become more commenplace recently.

The Time Meddler was one of the cheap DVD's that make up about a third of the yearly releases now, though I'm not sure if that pricing policy is the same outside the UK.

Ontir

08-13-2008, 02:01 PM

One of the things they've never really dealt with, and it's been discussed a bit earlier here, is the change of the Master from the Pertwee to Baker days. I think it would be very interesting to see the Master show up, coming into the current series directly from his Pertwee days. "Gump" some footage of Delgado if need be, but maybe have the Master collapse in a UNIT prison. Someone, not overly aware of what the Master is, calls for an ambulance. Once free of his cell, the Master regenerates and makes his escape. Maybe even with the assistance of the Time Lords, who know they'll need him for the (then) coming war. Another possibility is that Martha finds the Master has regenerated in his cell, and learns that he is to be released, his sentence served. As much as she wants him to stay locked up, she also knows his freedom is a part of history, her history, and that she can't stop it from happening.

From this point we have a Master, presumably in his 2nd or 3rd regeneration, who can continue to bother the Doctor and the universe, heading toward the deformed husk we saw in "the Deadly Assassin."

In terms of the "Season 6b" theory, the Doctor's (Pertwee) reaction to being told of the Master's arrival on earth makes much more sense. Perhaps the Doctor had more run-ins with the renegade we first met in "the War Games" as he went on to become the Delgado "Master?"

ChrisIII

08-14-2008, 05:50 AM

The official word is that War chief isn't the Master (or the monk, for that matter), although he was certainly a prototype of sorts for the character behind-the-scenes.

The novels sort of explain what happened to the Delgado master in "Last of the Gadarene" and "Legacy of the Daleks".

However, the Master's timeline from the Ainley incarnation to the TV movie is a bit confused (Although if one just follows the TV show, one can assume it was Ainley who was put on trial by the Daleks) by the audio and the books (Geoffrey Beevers plays the Master in the audios, the explanation being that the Tremas body has worn off and he's become the husk again). although the Roberts-Jacobi transition isn't as much since the master seldom appeared after the TV movie in the books/audios. I also assume that the Master presumabely regenerated after the time war into Jacobi, otherwise the Doctor would presumabely recognize him physically. So technically Simm is the third ressurected Master.

Ontir

08-14-2008, 11:56 AM

From what we're told about the Master in the new series, the Time Lords resurrected him, presumably with 12 regenerations. The reason the Doctor didn't recognize him was that he'd been restored for the Time War, but ultimately ran away. He used the Chameleon Arc to transfigure himself into a human which is why the Doctor didn't know that Yana was the Master.

If the official line is that the Warlord isn't the Master, I don't think that word got to the writer(s) of "the Deadly assassin!" That has "SEQUAL" stamped all over it!

Stressfactor

08-14-2008, 12:21 PM

Eh. The War Chief was pretty positively put away -- locked up -- and the key was thrown away.

However, Deadly Assissin does feel like a sequel to the Doctor's situation. It actually sort of completes and arc that stacks up well for supporting the "Season 6B Theory"....

End of "The War Games" starts the arc, then you have "The Spearhead from Space" which establishes the Doctor's 'new' situation (i.e. stranded on Earth), the exile is lifted with "The Three Doctors" and, it is implied, the Doctor's slate is wiped clean by the Time Lords. Doc is VERY definitely manipulated into acting as an unofficial agent in "Genesis of the Daleks" and the Doctor BELIEVES he is being manipulated by the Time Lords in "The Brain of Morbius" as well - but we never get any overt proof of this and it could just be the Doctor being paranoid and over-sensitive, and the whole thing comes full circle with "The Deadly Assassin."

ChrisIII

08-14-2008, 01:39 PM

Yeah, the Time Lords that apparentally ask the Doctor to do things are the Celestial Intervention Agency, which apparentally are sort of a shadow organization within the time lord society.

Season 6b actually has it's origins way before "The Doctors" specials-a group of comic strips from the 60s had the Second Doctor continue, having escaped the time lords, apparentally because they couldn't put the strip on hiatus waiting for Pertwee. At the end, he is captured by time-lord controlled scarecrows and forced to regenerate. Or something like that. Kind of ironic considering Pertwee's other famous role, and the eventual use of Scarecrows as bad guys in the series.

tony ingram

08-15-2008, 10:13 AM

One of the things they've never really dealt with, and it's been discussed a bit earlier here, is the change of the Master from the Pertwee to Baker days. I think it would be very interesting to see the Master show up, coming into the current series directly from his Pertwee days. "Gump" some footage of Delgado if need be, but maybe have the Master collapse in a UNIT prison. Someone, not overly aware of what the Master is, calls for an ambulance. Once free of his cell, the Master regenerates and makes his escape. Maybe even with the assistance of the Time Lords, who know they'll need him for the (then) coming war. Another possibility is that Martha finds the Master has regenerated in his cell, and learns that he is to be released, his sentence served. As much as she wants him to stay locked up, she also knows his freedom is a part of history, her history, and that she can't stop it from happening. There's never any indication given that Delgado is the Master's first incarnation. He might equally as well be the last, the one before the 'corpse' Master.

In terms of the "Season 6b" theory, the Doctor's (Pertwee) reaction to being told of the Master's arrival on earth makes much more sense. Perhaps the Doctor had more run-ins with the renegade we first met in "the War Games" as he went on to become the Delgado "Master?"The Virgin NA 'Timewyrm: Exodus' brings back the War Chief and establishes that he is not the Master.

tony ingram

08-15-2008, 10:16 AM

Ontir

08-15-2008, 11:15 AM

The Virgin NA 'Timewyrm: Exodus' brings back the War Chief and establishes that he is not the Master.

I need a translation here. What does this mean?

Stress, when was the War Chief put away? I'd have to go back and look at those final chapters, but I thought he was shot. I assumed that he regenerated into the Delgado "Master" at that point. I don't take anything outside the TV series as canon. If it's on screen it's real, if it's in a book or a radio play it's an unconnected story, until such time as the elements are brought to screen.

Stressfactor

08-15-2008, 03:11 PM

I need a translation here. What does this mean?

Stress, when was the War Chief put away? I'd have to go back and look at those final chapters, but I thought he was shot. I assumed that he regenerated into the Delgado "Master" at that point. I don't take anything outside the TV series as canon. If it's on screen it's real, if it's in a book or a radio play it's an unconnected story, until such time as the elements are brought to screen.

I've always assumed that the Time Lords were aware of the War Chief and if he had been still alive then they would have dealt with him just as the dealt with the Doctor.

And the War Chief was always meant to be just the War Chief while the Master was meant to be something more.

As for the translation of what Tony said: Virgin Co. (You know, Richard Branson's megalopolis of a company that has its hands in everything from airplanes to rock and roll) has (had?) a book publishing arm. At one point in time Virgin Publishing had the license to create Doctor Who novels from the BBC. These novels come in two flavors: "NA" stands for New Adventures -- these were supposed to be the 'ongoing' adventures of the Seventh Doctor -- basically continuing on AFTER the show went off the air. After the creation of the TV Movie the New Adventures began featuring the original adventures of the Eighth Doctor.

Virgin had another line which gets abbreviated "MA" by fans and this stands for Missing Adventures -- these were stories about previous incarnations of the Doctor and were supposed to slot in between existing television adventures.

I don't know how much of the classic TV stuff you've watched in order but you might note that, in the early days particularly, the end of one adventure led directly into the next adventure. For example -- the end of "The Sensorites" feeds right into the begining of "The Reign of Terror". However, there WERE gaps where stories didn't always feed in. For example, the end of "The Time Meddler" doesn't feed at all into "Galaxy 4" so, theoretically, the Doctor and his companions could have any number of adventures in between.

In the later years -- starting with the Pertwee and T. Baker eras there were many more gaps and ergo it was dirt simple to envision a number of adventures taking place in between.

Ontir

08-15-2008, 07:38 PM

There's no reason to believe the War Chief wouldn't have regenerated. Those weapons didn't seem to be of the "Kill a Time Lord" quality. Force a regeneration, yes, kill utterly? I don't think so. That's actually the one thing that annoyed the hell out of me with "the Deadly Assassin." Several Time Lords are killed and yes, the Master is behind it, if anyone can do one of them in, it's going to be him, but they don't ever address it. I'd love to see something where a Time Lord gets shot and as the battle races on, regenerates and gets back up!

I watched steadily and faithfully from Pertwee through the beginning of Sylvester McCoy, then sporadically to the end. The TV Movie, and every ep of the new series. Yeah, the pretty much continued on and on and on, but the gaps always did interest me.

I'm still a stickler that what's onscreen is in and what's elsewhere is out, until those who put it on, decide it's in.

Stressfactor

08-15-2008, 08:31 PM

Well, there's also nothing that says the War Chief wasn't on his final regeneration either.

There is also the spectre of "something going wrong with regeneration". In The Brain of Morbius the Doctor says that the elixir created by the Sisterhood's sacred flame was used to save Time Lords if something went wrong with their regenerations. He also said that TIme Lords eventually developed other medications that replaced the elixir. He, himself, later suffered a 'regenerative crisis' that almost ended in his death -- and in that case a 'kill a TIme Lord' power level weapon was not used.

The elixir and the medicines created by the Time Lords would seem to indicate that, while something going wrong with a regeneration may not have been common it must not have been all *that* rare either.

We have also seen recently that apparently Time Lords can stop the regenerative process and *choose* to die. The War Chief knew the Time Lords were coming and he knew if he were forced to regenerate there was no way he could do it in time to make a getaway and he also knew that he would likely be facing death for his crimes against the time stream so it could also be that he chose not to regenerate to save himself from a public execution.

mattx110

08-15-2008, 08:34 PM

So, Bill Bailey for D11?

Ontir

08-15-2008, 09:42 PM

Bill Bailey? Where did you hear this?

OK, found a pic of Bailey and NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

...and I am UNANIMOUS in this!

mattx110

08-15-2008, 10:03 PM

Bill Bailey? Where did you hear this?
Just nonsense I'm suggesting. I think he'd be fun as it, and has linguistic and musical talents to bring some Troughton-ness and that wordliness (or universeliness).

Sorry to get your hopes or fears up.

Although, a Doctor with a beard.... Do they have the balls for that?

Ontir

08-15-2008, 10:06 PM

Well, if there's to be "Troughton-ness" I'll have to give it a re-consider! :tongue:

mattx110

08-15-2008, 10:09 PM

Well, if there's to be "Troughton-ness" I'll have to give it a re-consider! :tongue:
Well, a small flute to replace the recorder. Maybe find some way to work a piano into every other story.

We should totally start the rumor until it becomes true. Stranger things have happened.

Ontir

08-15-2008, 10:21 PM

If he can pick up Sally Sparrow, I'm all for it!

mattx110

08-15-2008, 10:39 PM

If he can pick up Sally Sparrow, I'm all for it!
I hear he has surprising arm strength!

JCAll

08-16-2008, 04:27 AM