Doctor Who *spoilers*

[king mob]

I liked the episode until Doctor Donna arrived.

It's this year's Tinkerbell Doctor moment.

It was a better ending than last year's climax but take out the fun fanwankery & it was full of big gaping holes in logic & it was all a bit disapointing. Davies is a better writer than this, he's proven that, so why does he have to fall upon cop-outs rather than actually working out a better plot.
I could cope with the regeneration cop out, the hand's involvement was telegraphed by a country mile. I can cope with the duplicate Doctor and the set-up to give Rose a happy ending but Doctor Donna was bollocks & just typical RTD guff.

All this is a shame as there were great moments; the Torchwood scenes, K9, Davros & Sarah Jane's little dialogue & of course the great Bernard Cribbins. Sadly the majority of the programme was nonsense & can we please stop with the 'humans are brillllliiiiaaaannnt' shite, it's overused & boring now.

Still, it did try but hopefully when Moffat takes over he allows himself to have a good script editor to go over his scripts to avoid the flaws of Davies. Cybermen at Christmas though.

[Ontir]

I don't think anything you have said supports it being the Doctor's birth name, or true name. There is no reason to believe that Davros had access to that information, it wasn't even hinted at. As others have said there is a huge leap to a conclusion that has no real support given. You supported quite well that the title "Destroyer of Worlds" has something to say about the Doctor's soul, I agree, it showed what he was capable of, but that does not support that this title was his real name.

There's every reason to believe Davros had access. Dalek Kahn was feeding him information most recently, but the Daleks have been time travelers for a long, long time. They've also made war on Gallifrey, and making the Doctor face exactly what he is, what he was named for, what he's been running from all these years is the prefect vengeance.

[Ontir]

Must suck for the less extraordinary Gallifreyans, then, who at some point in their early childhood realize for the first time that their name means "High School Dropout" or "Crackhead McJunkie."

Maybe that's why the Time Lords seemed to be in such a malaise. If you've been named for what you will be, why bother? The Doctor couldn't accept his name and ran from it, trying to make it better, hence "the Doctor." His schoolmate couldn't turn away from it, and felt he had to control it, hence "the Master." Another student felt she had to command it, be it's queen, hence "the Rani." Most accept fate and their place in it, acting only when and how it was foretold they would. Some, very few, can't accept what they've been shown, and they spend their many lives trying to alter their destiny.

[Ontir]

No, it does not make sense.
You make a huge leap without any evidence at all to support it.

As said, 'Destroyer of worlds' is exactly the same as 'the oncoming storm', 'snail' or any other title/nickname has been thrown his way.

How many of those who've called him those other things had the kind of access to time that Davros and Kahn had?

In the structure of the writing, it makes great sense.

[mattx110]

How many of those who've called him those other things had the kind of access to time that Davros and Kahn had?

In the structure of the writing, it makes great sense.
But it woulda been a bigger deal if that's his real name. There's no way, especially with Moffat ("I can see in your mind, Doctor... your name is hidden" "I wouldn't tell anyone my name unless...") taking over.

[drwho]

The only way I think Jenny should ever be used again is maybe take who back to its root. Have Who regenerate into an older man and Jenny can be his youthful sidekick kind of like the original grandfather daughter relationship except this time it would be with himself. :tongue:

[IamtheRock3]

felt sorry for Donnar

But is her ring important. Notice it was a close up and it sparkeled. Is that some kind of hint for something

Also is that what the meant by someone dieing, just getting there memory wiped

[Ontir]

But it woulda been a bigger deal if that's his real name. There's no way, especially with Moffat ("I can see in your mind, Doctor... your name is hidden" "I wouldn't tell anyone my name unless...") taking over.

Which is a good reason to understate it.

[Captain Jim]

I want the Doctor to be brilliant again

But didn't you know? He IS brilliant. I mean, he tells us that often enough. :wink: :biggrin:

[Crowley]

Which is a good reason to understate it.

I happen to agree with you... I think we'll never know the Doctor's actual name (and as Moffat and RTD have stated... we never should) but I think it's safe to assume "Oncoming Storm, Destroyer of Worlds" etc... are close approximations to what it likely actually is.

Whatever it is... it's something terrible... and by opening the Doctor's soul and naming him as Davros did... we got a hint at it.

[lonewolf23k]

I happen to agree with you... I think we'll never know the Doctor's actual name (and as Moffat and RTD have stated... we never should) but I think it's safe to assume "Oncoming Storm, Destroyer of Worlds" etc... are close approximations to what it likely actually is.

Whatever it is... it's something terrible... and by opening the Doctor's soul and naming him as Davros did... we got a hint at it.

Agreed, and it's not just the naming. Like that whole sequence where both Martha and Jack & friends call in and showcase they've both got bombs set to screw up the Daleks' plans, and what does Davros do? He turns the situation around on the Doctor for a "We're not so Different" moment, and puts the Doctor on the spot for all the people who've sacrificed themselves for the cause by following the Doctor's exemple, complete with a flashback to all of the Doctor's New Series acquaintances who've died since Series One.

I think that whatever the Doctor's true name, soul or destiny is, it scares the crap out of him. It implies he was meant for dark, destructive things, and he's been fighting it since day one. Which is probably why he's such a strong technical pacifist.. He knows that if he kills too much, he might grow to like it.

[tricksterpup]

Whatever it is... it's something terrible... and by opening the Doctor's soul and naming him as Davros did... we got a hint at it.

So you are saying it couldn't be Bob or Mr. Tinkles.

[Spike-X]

How many of those who've called him those other things had the kind of access to time that Davros and Kahn had?

In the structure of the writing, it makes great sense.
I really think you're reaching here, man.

[Spike-X]

Of course, now that he has been given the title 'Destroyer Of Worlds', this may give us insight into what the Doctor's real name actually is!

http://media.funny.co.uk/files/2709.jpg

[Crowley]

I really think you're reaching here, man.

if the Doctor's real name is for fun let's say: Kal El

Davros called him: "The Man of Steel, The Last Son of Krypton" etc.

It's not his real name at all, but rather analogous to it.

[Crowley]

Agreed, and it's not just the naming. Like that whole sequence where both Martha and Jack & friends call in and showcase they've both got bombs set to screw up the Daleks' plans, and what does Davros do? He turns the situation around on the Doctor for a "We're not so Different" moment, and puts the Doctor on the spot for all the people who've sacrificed themselves for the cause by following the Doctor's exemple, complete with a flashback to all of the Doctor's New Series acquaintances who've died since Series One.

I think that whatever the Doctor's true name, soul or destiny is, it scares the crap out of him. It implies he was meant for dark, destructive things, and he's been fighting it since day one. Which is probably why he's such a strong technical pacifist.. He knows that if he kills too much, he might grow to like it.
it's also explains why River Song apologizes before speaking his name to him.

[ZT4]

Glad somebody picked that up. Much like the "one will die" lines, The Doctor's "true name" was just a metaphor.

Anyhoo, anyone looked up the theory that "Tennant II" may one day manifest as The Valeyard?

Genocidal "reminds me of me" Doctor
-None of The Doctor's remaining regenerations, nothing to lose
-Could have a bone to pick for being chastised, PROSECUTED, by himself
-Is "damaged goods" that Rose isnt entirely sure about commiting to, even after the kiss
-Protests and points out The Doctor's hypocrisy
-A beach becomes his "waiting room" beyond reality, and he manifests a "beach" as the scenario for a "waiting room" in "Trial of a Time Lord"
-Time-Locks can be breached at maximum cost to mental effiency, when someone's mind is already scarred by war, an inexperianced Rose isnt going to temper that...plus the concept of the High Council being so desperate that they look beyond their exstinction to bring in someone like him is a nice little peice of "timey whimey" that's begging for exposistion

[Spike-X]

Anyhoo, anyone looked up the theory that "Tennant II" may one day manifest as The Valeyard?

Interesting theory. They've certainly left the door wide open for a future 'Two Doctors' special, once Tennant's gone from the regular series. They've even pre-explained why he'll look so much older by then.

[carabas]

Of course, now that he has been given the title 'Destroyer Of Worlds', this may give us insight into what the Doctor's real name actually is!Surely we can now narrow it down to either Oppenheimer or Shiva?

[mattx110]

Surely we can now narrow it down to either Oppenheimer or Shiva?
It is Bob!

[carabas]

Bob Oppenheimer or Bob Shiva?

[Stressfactor]

Got back from vacation (picked up a case of poison ivy... whee, fun) and immediately got my laptop set up to I could watch the two part series finale all in one sitting....

First part: Awesome.

Second part: Not so much.

Can someone give RTD some copies of Classic Who, please? Granted, "Evil of the Daleks" only exists as audio (CURSE YOU BBC!!!) but considering that the Second incarnation of the Doctor basically created some sweet little Daleks who looked on him as a daddy figure and then he ruthlessly set his 'pet' Daleks on the rest of the tribe seems a mite more wicked than what Clone Doc did here. Also, it would serve as a reminder that the Doctor didn't exactly have clean hands BEFORE the Time War.

Julian Bleach was great... up until the virtual spittle flying rant. He took Davros just a little over the top with all that manical laughter. Also, I didn't think the whole "The Doctor turns people into weapons" argument held water. The Doctor doesn't turn people into weapons -- he teaches humans how to stand up to intergalactic bullies.

I knew how the whole "Clone Doctor" thing was going to turn out the moment the character appeared on the scene and the ending was as schmaltzy, syrupy, saccharine, cavity inducing as I feared.

It was nice seeing so many former companions getting a chance to shine and I think Freema did a better job of it here than in the Sontaran two parter. I throughly enjoyed the banter between Sarah Jane and Captain Jack -- her complaint about Torchwood being too gun happy hit home beautifully. In the second part, though, the bit with all the companions contributing something to drag the Earth home was a bit over done.... and the fact that they let K9 out of the black hole just so he could talk to frickin' Mr. Smith was a letdown. If they're going to get the tin dog at least let him DO something! And I still want the Doctor to meet Luke -- I could see that being a very fun conversation.

In the first half the pepper pots from hell really did come off as fearsome and evil but again by the end they had become figures of ridicule.

Also, is it just me or does any other Classic Who fan see a parallel here? With "Evil of the Daleks" during the Troughton era the Doctor supposedly destroyed the Daleks for good. That story was followed by a Cybermen story -- "Tomb of the Cybermen" and the Cybermen would go on to become the big bads of the Troughton era. Now we have the Daleks supposedly destroyed again and they're going to follow it up with a Cybermen story. Hmmm.....

Still, at least I can stop listening to Rose Tyler fans and their "Doctor + Rose For-evah!" stuff. It is an ending that should satisfy them.

I did think that Donna's fate was heartbreaking and Tennant actually sold the idea that the Doctor suffers as well with the loss of his friend. Although I did think that the Doctor did the mindwipe on Donna with a bit too much alacrity considering that he'd lost two other companions that way.

Bernard Cribbens was beautiful -- absolutely beautiful and its a bit of a shame that, since they've now tied his character to Donna's, we probably won't get to see him again.

[Spike-X]

I didn't think the whole "The Doctor turns people into weapons" argument held water.

I don't know how much we were expected to buy into that. After all, it was bloody Davros saying it - the man who'd just tried to wipe out the whole of reality!

Evil types always have to try to make the heroes look like the bad guy - from your common burglar all the way up to Lex Luthor. It's just part of the twisted way they think.

[mattx110]

Bob Oppenheimer or Bob Shiva?
Bob Shiva- Bob Vila's true identity.

[Pro]

-Time-Locks can be breached at maximum cost to mental effiency, when someone's mind is already scarred by war, an inexperianced Rose isnt going to temper that...plus the concept of the High Council being so desperate that they look beyond their exstinction to bring in someone like him is a nice little peice of "timey whimey" that's begging for exposistion

You're implying doctor number 2 is going to breach the timelock and save Gallifrey and in the process go insane? That could be interesting. Saves the writers from having to put the whole timewar into scenes, instead they could use flashbacks, return gallifrey and introduce a doctor that is the antithesis of the original version.

[Dark_Master]

I don't know how much we were expected to buy into that. After all, it was bloody Davros saying it - the man who'd just tried to wipe out the whole of reality!

Evil types always have to try to make the heroes look like the bad guy - from your common burglar all the way up to Lex Luthor. It's just part of the twisted way they think.But it's not the first time that someone tries to make that point. Donna made a similar comment to the Doctor when she met Martha (don't remember if it was that he turns his companions into soldiers or that he turned Martha specifically into one)

[king mob]

Can someone give RTD some copies of Classic Who, please? Granted, "Evil of the Daleks" only exists as audio (CURSE YOU BBC!!!) but considering that the Second incarnation of the Doctor basically created some sweet little Daleks who looked on him as a daddy figure and then he ruthlessly set his 'pet' Daleks on the rest of the tribe seems a mite more wicked than what Clone Doc did here. Also, it would serve as a reminder that the Doctor didn't exactly have clean hands BEFORE the Time War.

Quite. The Doctor has had bloody hands since the very start, so I don't get why Davies is laying it on so thick this series.

Julian Bleach was great... up until the virtual spittle flying rant.

He did a great Davros & managed not to get too campy. Though in Journey's End he'd managed to be reduced to a cameo role which seems a waste.



I knew how the whole "Clone Doctor" thing was going to turn out the moment the character appeared on the scene and the ending was as schmaltzy, syrupy, saccharine, cavity inducing as I feared.

I didn't mind it too much as I suspected Davies would use it to give Rose a nice happy ending. It's not as bad as the Daleks being destroyed by flicking a few handy switches they have lying around in their prison cell.
In the first half the pepper pots from hell really did come off as fearsome and evil but again by the end they had become figures of ridicule.

The German Daleks veered into panto & that was after they'd been reduced to comedy stooges. It's a pity because Davies has done a great job in returning the Daleks to being complete bastards only for him to start making mistakes from the classic series.

Also, is it just me or does any other Classic Who fan see a parallel here? With "Evil of the Daleks" during the Troughton era the Doctor supposedly destroyed the Daleks for good. That story was followed by a Cybermen story -- "Tomb of the Cybermen" and the Cybermen would go on to become the big bads of the Troughton era. Now we have the Daleks supposedly destroyed again and they're going to follow it up with a Cybermen story. Hmmm.....

It's probably no more than an excuse to sell Cyberman merchandise in time for Christmas.

Still, at least I can stop listening to Rose Tyler fans and their "Doctor + Rose For-evah!" stuff. It is an ending that should satisfy them.

I believe OG exploded on Saturday due to this.

I did think that Donna's fate was heartbreaking and Tennant actually sold the idea that the Doctor suffers as well with the loss of his friend. Although I did think that the Doctor did the mindwipe on Donna with a bit too much alacrity considering that he'd lost two other companions that way.

1. Wiping someones mind so they can at least live some sort of life.

2. Dying horribly.

I'll always take 1 over 2, so the mind wipe was a big steaming pile of cop out to leave the door open for Tate to make a guest appearance when she's not making naff comedy programmes.

Bernard Cribbens was beautiful -- absolutely beautiful and its a bit of a shame that, since they've now tied his character to Donna's, we probably won't get to see him again.


Cribbins was wonderful, as was Donna's mum who played her role perfectly. The final scenes between Cribbins and Tennant were wonderful and I'd loved to see Cribbins as a companion (again) for one of the specials next year, though if the rumours are true the specials are going to be just as crowded as Journey's End.

[king mob]

The Guardian has a very interesting interview with Russell Davies today.

Russell T Davies is cross. The writer and executive producer of Doctor Who for the past five years rises to his full 6' 6" height and spits: "Little? You can call me many things but not little!"

The day before the fourth series of the top-rated show finished on Saturday, Davies is incensed by a comment piece in the Daily Mail in which Quentin Letts called him "an irksome little man with too high an opinion of himself and a tendency to proselytise for gay rights at every opportunity".

What has irked Davies most is not the gay line - though he has sharp words about that - but the mistake born, he says, of a lack of basic research. After five years masterminding the BBC drama phenomenon that is Doctor Who, the Welsh-born Davies is a well-known and, well, large presence in the TV industry. He is still going to write part of the five Doctor Who specials over the next two years. However, the next series, to be broadcast in 2010, will be overseen by Steven Moffat.

Forthright and unafraid of controversy, Davies is no stranger to public vitriol. In 2001 he received death threats for his ITV drama Bob and Rose, in which a gay man played by Alan Davies embarks on an affair with a woman played by Lesley Sharp. Police were involved and people he imagined to be a few "misogynist ... saddos in bedsits" had to be "warned off" by ITV. The idea of a gay man "betraying his sexuality" was too much for them, it seems. "[They] treated me like the betrayer of the cause, like I'd let down homosexuality."

And there was also the time when he says he spent "about three weeks solid sitting in various radio studios" defending his Channel 4 drama Queer as Folk. He seems proudest of having an American who claimed to cure homosexuality barred from a Five Live discussion with him when he asked the producer whether she would be happy to have Davies baby-sit her children.

"I love having debates with people when they are debates but some people, you just can't," says Davies. "Some people shouldn't be given the oxygen."

Fewer harrumphs

After this sort of history, Doctor Who must have come as a surprise, with fewer harrumphs than Davies was expecting - or perhaps actually wanted. "There was not really a whisper about that," he says of the inclusion of the bisexual Captain Jack Harkness (who at one point planted a smacker on the Doctor's face). He adds, for good measure, that there were "actually a low number of gay characters compared with heterosexual characters".

He sounds triumphant when he says: "The Daily Mail didn't complain, and there weren't any other official complaints. No complaint could have been upheld about it anyway because it was done with a sense of humour and [Captain Jack actor] John [Barrowman] was indefatigable about it."

He makes no apology for what the Mail sees as his proselytising for homosexuality. "I love the fact that that inflames people. But they can't stop me," he chuckles scornfully, about those he regards as inhabiting the "dark corners of the internet".

The arguments he says he won't miss are with people who question Doctor Who's emotional element.

"It's a drama, he's a character with a full emotional range. It is a very science fiction thing to separate the plot off and dissect a story and talk about, I don't know, the 57 emotional lines spoken by the Doctor."

He has been as critical of a tiny but vocal minority of Whovians as he is of the Daily Mail, calling them "mosquitoes". Even at the end of his tenure he continues to express regret that some of the obsessives "dominate the agenda".

"They are not real fandom, though, they are a core of mostly men who like to complain. Fandom is bigger and richer than that, and they are only about 1,000 people who give everyone else a bad name and build their life around a show."

In fact, he says if he had his time again there is "nothing" he would do differently on Doctor Who. However, he admits that the year-round schedule has been "exhausting". He always planned to work on the show for four or five years, the longest he has pursued any one project.

"I have done everything I want to do with it. I love it," he says, brimming with enthusiasm for a show he fell in love with when he was a child, dreaming of finding the Doctor waiting to take him as his next companion. "It is a very adult longing too, to escape everything."

He will miss it, of course, but he is relishing the next series, which he can finally watch as "a fan - the first time in 21 years". He has insisted that he is not sent any preview DVDs so that he can watch it live along with everybody else. He is full of praise for his successor and is confident the show is in safe hands. Besides, "it would still be a wonderful man fighting a bunch of monsters".

It's hard to have a favourite episode, he says, though if pushed he would name the one just broadcast: "Others, well you can see little bits of influences, bits of Buffy perhaps, a bit of Star Wars maybe, but this was pure Doctor Who. It was mad."

As we saw on Saturday, David Tennant lives to fight on in another Christmas special, which will be set in Victorian England and feature the Cybermen, as well as four other specials which begin filming in 2009. But Davies refuses to say whether Tennant will return when the full series returns in 2010, except that he has made his decision and that the BBC knows what it is. There's no point asking Davies, therefore, about rumours that James Nesbitt or Robert Carlyle will be taking control of the sonic screwdriver.

He is not a man to shy away from controversial comments, and says Tennant's eventual replacement should not be female. "I am often tempted to say yes to that to placate everyone but, while I think kids will not have a problem with [a female Doctor], I think fathers will have a problem with it because they will then imagine they will have to describe sex changes to their children.

"I think fathers can describe sex changes to their children and I think they should and it's part of the world, but I think it would simply introduce genitalia into family viewing. You're not talking about actresses or style, you're talking about genitalia, and a lot of parents would get embarrassed."

Tightknit bunch

Typically though, Davies can't help imagining Lesley Sharp or Judi Dench in the role, adding that he thinks Amy Winehouse would be "brilliant".

One woman he is a huge fan of is the BBC's head of fiction Jane Tranter, who has been accused in the Guardian and elsewhere of wielding too much power as the BBC micro-manages projects.

"I understand the arguments and I have friends in the independents who genuinely find it hard," he says. "I know it's complicated and I also know I am in a very privileged position, but we are a tightknit bunch on this show and we have worked bloody hard to get to the position we're in. For five years I have had absolute freedom and nobody has interfered with me in any shape or form."

He has had, he says, "enormous support" from the BBC and Tranter but adds that his status is the result of hard work by him and his team.

"I am not Jane Tranter's secret love child, I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth, I haven't got incriminating photos of her. I am not even her best friend. I met her for the first time when I wrote one episode of Linda Green and for the second time when she asked me to do Doctor Who."

He is soon to collect his recently awarded OBE at Buckingham Palace - accepting it went against his republican principles, and he "did have to think about it". He did so, he said, for the sake of his 83-year-old dad. Davies also believes that it is an honour from the government, not royalty, and he is a cautious supporter of New Labour (Iraq notwithstanding) for its record on gay rights.

As well as dreading the prospect of a Tory government, Davies is mulling over two drama ideas for "grown-ups", one of which will be about gay men in their 40s. The BBC will have first refusal. This Christmas, however, is "fucked" because he will still be hard at work on the four specials that begin filming in January once Tennant finishes his RSC run as Hamlet.

Davies has no immediate plans to return to children's TV but he remains worried about its future, believing that the BBC is likely to take it off its main TV networks "on to digital". "Now ITV is showing Midsomer Murders at 4pm, with wives getting their head stoved in, what hope is there for children's programmes on the BBC?" he wonders. "It is terrifying."

So is the thought of the post-Doctor world. "I get ferried everywhere and my time is managed so brilliantly I won't be able to go to the shops after this, I'll be like a baby," he says. "I am more in love with it than ever, but that's probably the best time to get out - not when you're bored."

· Russell T Davies is delivering a masterclass next month at the MediaGuardian Edinburgh International Television Festival

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/jul/07/television.bbc

[Stressfactor]

You're implying doctor number 2 is going to breach the timelock and save Gallifrey and in the process go insane? That could be interesting. Saves the writers from having to put the whole timewar into scenes, instead they could use flashbacks, return gallifrey and introduce a doctor that is the antithesis of the original version.

I actually had an idea once that the 10th Doctor might go slightly mad due to an adventure gone wrong and decide to do the most dangerous thing possible in order to restore Gallifrey -- Find the pieces to the Key to Time again and restore them.

Once he had the Key the Doctor would restore the planet and all its people but at a terrible cost to the Universe -- and to what was left of his sanity. Romana was then going to kill him in order to force a regeneration -- which would also restore his sanity and then she was going to re-scatter the pieces of the Key to Time.

Unfortunately, the restored Time Lords could not let the Doctor's crimes to the universe pass unpunished -- even if he was crazy at the time. There would be a trial, the Doctor would be found guilty and his sentence would be death.

Unable to let the Doctor die, however, Romana would secretly engineer his escape but would warn him that this time he could not only never return to Gallifrey but could not go near any Time Lords or Time Lord allies because his sentence would still stand and any Time Lord or ally would be required to carry out the Doctor's sentence of death IMMEDIATELY upon discovering him again. No exile to Earth, no returning to Gallifrey for another trial or for the sentence to be carried out -- immediate and permanent death to the Doctor. So of course the irony would be that he saved his people and his planet but he could NEVER go back and in the meantime he would also have to deal with the knowledge that in restoring Gallifrey he had doomed a number of other worlds and peoples.

So he would wander the universe still, an exile from his people again, a death sentence hanging over his head and trying desperately all the time to do enough good to atone for his sins in destroying others.

[mattx110]

So... you'd make him catholic?

[Stressfactor]

So... you'd make him catholic?

Nah... if he were Catholic all he'd have to do is go to confession and say a few "hail Marys".:wink: (And seriously, no offense to any Catholics -- I wowrked for an order of Nuns for seven years and have nothing but the utmost respect)

This is more a Puritain view of things.... and an interesting excersize in futility because it would be the Doctor, in his usual way, trying so hard to "fix" things without fully understanding that this is something that can never be made up for. That in the end he'd have to forgive himself first and then accept what was done.

It largely came out of something my father said once.... He told me that he never got into an arguement with my mother (and seriously, this is true. My parents didn't fight much because my dad would just surrender the field) because things could be said in the heat of anger and maybe you didn't mean them and you could apologize till the cows came home but you could never take those words back -- they could never be forgotten.

[adamthered]

I sat down yesterday and watched Turn Left/The Stolen Earth/Journey's End back to back to back...

I'm exhausted. It was nonstop. I love all 2 hours and 38 minutes of it!

I was happy to see Rose get her Doctor. I'm just a big softy though.

It was sad seeing Donna become so great and then become normal again. But, a little hope there that anyone has a chance to do great things so maybe see will again some day, just not to the magnitude of saving the universe.

Again, watching all three episodes was exhausting. I'm still digesting everything. I loved Davies wrapping up four series worth of plots and leaving new ones open. I know a lot of people harp on him and his writing style but he (and others, I know) brought Who back and made me a fan.

Now the wait for Christmas begins...

[Alan Lynch]

I need to watch it again - as my first viewing took place at 7am after the flatmate and I had walked home from a party - but I was disappointed. Main reasons would be the Daleks being depressingly easy to beat, and that whole Rose ending. Gah, I hated that. And I'm pretty sure I hate what the Doctor does to Donna too. Pretty sure.

[themightyjbowski]

I watched the finale yesterday after my post. OH MAN! That was fricking
AWEsome!!! lol I can't complain, honestly I am pleased. I think they handled
the non-regeneration quite nicely. I know there will be ppl out there displeased
about that but NOT me! A happy ending for all but Donna (what she doesn't
know won't hurt her eh?) and of course The Doctor, who is all alone again.
I'm pleased to see that Torchwood picked up 2 new members. At least
it appears that way. It would be kewel if they brough Jenny back to travel
with him. Funny as hell if they had a guy around her age who was dating
her and The Doctor traveling with both of them going bonkers and the guy
giving him sh@t calling him "dad". lol I did wacth the interview with Davies
as well. Sucks no season next year. Only 4 specials...bah! Everyone in
this thread amazes me with all their knowledge of all that is WHO. I grew
-up watching with Tom Baker. But I did see some of Jon Pertwee as well.
I liked him also. Never cared for Paul McGann thou.

[king mob]

I need to watch it again - as my first viewing took place at 7am after the flatmate and I had walked home from a party - but I was disappointed. Main reasons would be the Daleks being depressingly easy to beat, and that whole Rose ending. Gah, I hated that. And I'm pretty sure I hate what the Doctor does to Donna too. Pretty sure.

I watched it on Saturday during a mate's wedding & watched it a second time yesterday on iPlayer and all the flaws hit you over the head even more a second time.

At least we've got five months to get over the disapointment & start looking forward to the Christmas special.

[DHX]

I watched it on Saturday during a mate's wedding & watched it a second time yesterday on iPlayer and all the flaws hit you over the head even more a second time.

At least we've got five months to get over the disapointment & start looking forward to the Christmas special.

ummm but isnt RTD writing the specials as well? i would think it would be a case of dreading the christmas special not looking forward to it.

[king mob]

ummm but isnt RTD writing the specials as well? i would think it would be a case of dreading the christmas special not looking forward to it.

Not at all. The Christmas specials have done their job of filling an hour on Christmas Day when one is stuffed full of gin & turkey. They've not been great bits of telly but they've been fun bits of throwaway telly that have lacking the problems with RTD's finales.

The specials next year are another matter. If Davies does use them to do his Two Doctors story with Paul McGann and bring back The Master then I'll be wallowing in fanwanking with everyone else. I'd just like to see a little more than a day spent on battering out a script.

[ZT4]

The first special is actually premiering on July 17th, a short "Night of the Promos" episode written for Murray Gold's Orchestra, who are performing at the event. Tennant and "one other guest star" will feature. I'm thinking from the Confidential documentary on the finale it has to be Sylvestor McCoy.

After the episode will be a 45th anniversary documentary.

ummm but isnt RTD writing the specials as well? i would think it would be a case of dreading the christmas special not looking forward to it.

Only if you dislike RTD, which many dont. To me, he'll always be the show's most underrated writer (next to Stephen Greenhorn)

I loved his latest interview where he called the dregs of fandom "mosquitos" and "not reflective of true fandom"...well...actually I took exception to that last part (freinds with people who are criticial of his stuff), but considering the amount of stupidity that comes attached to that "gay agenda" bile...some of them deserve to be shunned from fandom

I watched it on Saturday during a mate's wedding & watched it a second time yesterday on iPlayer and all the flaws hit you over the head even more a second timel.

I've watched it four times and the flaws all but vanish as migranes...it's an enjoyable, TRUE Doctor Who finale with moustache twirling in all the right places...if you can't have fun when DW is indulging itself, then why are you watching this show at all?

People love to find flaw, it's a common fad of people in this damaged society.

[Captain Jim]

I'm pleased to see that Torchwood picked up 2 new members. At least it appears that way.

I haven't seen the episodes yet, but don't mind being spoiled. Who are you referring to? Is it Martha and Mickey, as the rumor mill was speculating?

[Stressfactor]

Looks that way. Jack appeared to be trying to lure Martha away from UNIT and to Torchwood as they walked away from the TARDIS and Mickey ran after and joined up with them... after he told the Doctor that he would find "something" to do since he was going to stay in this universe.

The whole revamp of Torchwood is really not that bad of an idea on the BBC's part actually. A lot of the more... extreme shall we say... elements of the show didn't go over that well with fans and series like "The X-Files" have shown that you can have a sci-fi show that is smart, sophisticated, and adult without going over the top.

On top of all that, since "Doctor Who" is relegated to a handful of specials next season the BBC would naturally be looking for something that could fill that time slot and keep viewers interested while waiting for the good Doctor to make his appearances. Sure, it's a spin-off but it has enough connection to the main show to probably attract a certain number of viewers and it makes sure people don't completely forget about the 'Who-verse' while its on semi-hiatus.

[Spike-X]

if you can't have fun when DW is indulging itself, then why are you watching this show at all?

Quoted for...you know.

[Gorthaur]

I've watched it four times and the flaws all but vanish as migranes...it's an enjoyable, TRUE Doctor Who finale with moustache twirling in all the right places...if you can't have fun when DW is indulging itself, then why are you watching this show at all?

People love to find flaw, it's a common fad of people in this damaged society.So it's entirely inconceivable to you that your standards for what is enjoyable and what isn't might not be God's objective truth, then? It didn't once occur to you that the people disappointed by this episode might have different standards for what counts as "true" or "fun," and that is why they didn't find it enjoyable?

I mean, that level of defensiveness would be a little conceited, don't you think?

[carabas]

People love to find flaw, it's a common fad of people in this damaged society.Are you the same ZT4 that posts on the Spider-Man boards? Cause you know, glass houses and such.

[Captain Jim]

Looks that way. Jack appeared to be trying to lure Martha away from UNIT and to Torchwood as they walked away from the TARDIS and Mickey ran after and joined up with them... after he told the Doctor that he would find "something" to do since he was going to stay in this universe.

The whole revamp of Torchwood is really not that bad of an idea on the BBC's part actually. A lot of the more... extreme shall we say... elements of the show didn't go over that well with fans and series like "The X-Files" have shown that you can have a sci-fi show that is smart, sophisticated, and adult without going over the top.

On top of all that, since "Doctor Who" is relegated to a handful of specials next season the BBC would naturally be looking for something that could fill that time slot and keep viewers interested while waiting for the good Doctor to make his appearances. Sure, it's a spin-off but it has enough connection to the main show to probably attract a certain number of viewers and it makes sure people don't completely forget about the 'Who-verse' while its on semi-hiatus.

The last I heard, Torchwood was only going to have five episodes next year itself.

[Stressfactor]

Yeah, but five episodes of Torchwood scattered around five Doctor Who specials comes pretty close to being a full season for British TV. Series Four here only had 13 episodes after all....

[mattx110]

The last I heard, Torchwood was only going to have five episodes next year itself.
That may just be to have it taken seriously as a drama. Or Barrowman hooked a role in the sequel to Blackpool with Tennant and Morrissey (David, not the other one).

[themightyjbowski]

I haven't seen the episodes yet, but don't mind being spoiled. Who are you referring to? Is it Martha and Mickey, as the rumor mill was speculating?
Yep, but I didn't hear there would only be 5 episodes next year.
Why are they doing this? Can't be time off...seasons are only
13 episodes! lol

[king mob]

I've watched it four times and the flaws all but vanish as migranes

So basically you ignore them because you don't want to criticise the programme.

...it's an enjoyable, TRUE Doctor Who finale with moustache twirling in all the right places...if you can't have fun when DW is indulging itself, then why are you watching this show at all?

I'm watching it because on the whole I enjoy it, but I'm not going to blindly force myself to enjoy it if an episode is flawed, or indeed rubbish.

People love to find flaw, it's a common fad of people in this damaged society.

Bollocks.

[Paul McEnery]

So basically you ignore them because you don't want to criticise the programme.


I'm watching it because on the whole I enjoy it, but I'm not going to blindly force myself to enjoy it if an episode is flawed, or indeed rubbish.


Bollocks.

Ah, it's true and you know it. There's tons of people who want to find fault with the good stuff because it makes them feel small.

OTOH, there's tons of people who hate you for telling them the stuff they like isn't anywhere near as good as they think it is.

Until everyone gets on the same page with critical thinking and a well-formed sensibility, so it goes.

[Alan Lynch]

I watched it on Saturday during a mate's wedding & watched it a second time yesterday on iPlayer and all the flaws hit you over the head even more a second time.

At least we've got five months to get over the disapointment & start looking forward to the Christmas special.
I didn't find it nearly as flawed when I knew where it was going - the resolution is still stupid, but in a crowd-pleasing sort of way I can live with. Rose and Donna's endings are shite though. I hate them.
Yeah, but five episodes of Torchwood scattered around five Doctor Who specials comes pretty close to being a full season for British TV. Series Four here only had 13 episodes after all....
All shown over the course of a week is what I'd heard, so it'd be over just as you were getting into it.

[Stressfactor]

All shown over the course of a week is what I'd heard, so it'd be over just as you were getting into it.

Well that's..... dumb.

[Alan Lynch]

Well that's..... dumb.
I thought so too, but it's hopefully bollocks. Hopefully. It is just a rumour.

[Dizzy D]

So what are people's hopes and expectations for the new season in 2010?

I really want to see Paul McGann get another shot, but from what people have said he may appear before 2010.

And I want a new species. With Timelords and Daleks gone (or as good as gone), there is a power vacuum. Let's see some species filling that role, a species that would never have developed because of the Timelord meddling or the Daleks exterminating them before they became a threat.

I want somebody or something loose in the Tardis depths.

[ZT4]

Are you the same ZT4 that posts on the Spider-Man boards? Cause you know, glass houses and such.

Would I be anyone else?

And my point still stands. Negativity around fun television is as techno as disco.

[ChrisIII]

I think it's highly likely we'll see a full-length multi-Doctor story at some point-It was Moffat, after all, who did "Time Crash".

There's apparent rumors that they're trying to get all the surviving Doctors together for something (The rumor has even reached CBR's main page). They're kind of doing that for IDW's Doctor Who comic, I think as well.


I expect we'll probably see more of Jenny and perhaps River Song. Maybe a resolution to those storylines.


I'd also like to see a Moffat-penned Auton story. Autons are perfect for Moffat's style IMO.


RTD has said had he continued he would've brought back the Silurians/Sea devils. So maybe Moffat will give them a try. Maybe even have the Doctor go back to the height of their empire (Although that might stretch the SFX budget) or alternatively, finally have them make peace with mankind.


Dizzy D, something loose in the TARDIS would be a cool story (It's been done a few times in WHO spin-off fiction though), and it'd be finally cool to see the interior realized on the new show's better budget. We've only seen two rooms-the console room and the wardrobe-and it's getting a little boring.

[Captain Jim]

Yep, but I didn't hear there would only be 5 episodes next year.
Why are they doing this? Can't be time off...seasons are only
13 episodes! lol

Presumably they're even considering doing it as a mini-series, with all five episodes airing on five consecutive nights (at least in the UK). No idea why.

[king mob]

Well that's..... dumb.

There's no big sporting event like the World Cup or the Euros next year & the rumour is this is just one way for the BBC to fill that gap next year.

[king mob]

Would I be anyone else?

And my point still stands. Negativity around fun television is as techno as disco.

Just liking a programme for the sake of it & ignoring any problems with it is just stupid & leads to bad telly, & god knows we have enough bad drama right now. Wanting Who to be better than it is, or even return to the quality of the previous three series (series 3 now looks like genius compared to series 4) isn't being a kiljoy, it's just wanting things to maintain or improve.

[king mob]

I think it's highly likely we'll see a full-length multi-Doctor story at some point-It was Moffat, after all, who did "Time Crash".

There's apparent rumors that they're trying to get all the surviving Doctors together for something (The rumor has even reached CBR's main page). They're kind of doing that for IDW's Doctor Who comic, I think as well.

The rumour is one of next year's specials will at least see the return of Paul McGann, with possibly one other actor making an appearance.


I expect we'll probably see more of Jenny and perhaps River Song. Maybe a resolution to those storylines.

Moffat was the one who wanted Jenny to live so we'll definately see more of her. River Song could well be one of these things that's left for another medium.
RTD has said had he continued he would've brought back the Silurians/Sea devils. So maybe Moffat will give them a try. Maybe even have the Doctor go back to the height of their empire (Although that might stretch the SFX budget) or alternatively, finally have them make peace with mankind.

Nothing can be worse than the shitefest that is Warriors of the Deep.

[OZZ]

Brilliant!
Loved the finale. Mmmmm. Now THAT felt like Doctor Who.
So much fun. :biggrin:

Can't believe I went from loathing the Donna Noble character in the Runaway Bride to feeling like she was probably the best 'classic' companion type of the new series. I'm really going to miss that character now.

Rose... I can totally deal with the way that played out.
M & M on Torchwood. That'll be nice.
Cybers in the snow! Sweeeeeet.

Question about next year.
Will it be 4 specials plus the normal xmas special or what?

At any rate... sooooo looking forward to Moffat's run. Totally loved what he's done so far.


Cheers everyone! :smile:




P.S. I never want Tennant to leave this role. EVER! :eek:

[Stressfactor]

P.S. I never want Tennant to leave this role. EVER! :eek:

Really, NOT a good idea. every actor gets tired of a role eventually and when they do the results are usually not pretty. By Tom Baker's final season you could really see the role was wearing on him -- he looked tired and often acted like he didn't care anymore.

[rick]

Would I be anyone else?

And my point still stands. Negativity around fun television is as techno as disco.


So negatvity should only be reserved for a reworking of a certain fun wall crawling comicbook character instead?

Interesting.

[ChrisIII]

Outpost Gallifrey has revealed some interesting pics from season 2 of Sarah Jane, including a welcome appearence by an old friend :)

[Stressfactor]

Outpost Gallifrey has revealed some interesting pics from season 2 of Sarah Jane, including a welcome appearence by an old friend :)

Holy $#&%!!! (Happy Dance)

[Typo Lad]

Outpost Gallifrey has revealed some interesting pics from season 2 of Sarah Jane, including a welcome appearence by an old friend :)
Direct link? Pretty please?

[king mob]

Question about next year.
Will it be 4 specials plus the normal xmas special or what?



No, RTD has four more specials to write including the already completed Christmas 2008 special. Three specials will be broadcast over three bank holiday weekends next year & it's not been confirmed yet but the rumour is that Moffat will write the 2009 Christmas special.

[king mob]

Really, NOT a good idea. every actor gets tired of a role eventually and when they do the results are usually not pretty. By Tom Baker's final season you could really see the role was wearing on him -- he looked tired and often acted like he didn't care anymore.

Well to be fair Baker was pissed an awful lot in his last series but he'd certainly carried on far too long in the role to the extent that the programme was becoming stale.

Personally I'd prefer Moffat to start with a fresh Doctor & for Tennant to potter off to do other things before he gets stuck being as typecast as Tom Baker was. It took Baker 20 years before he shook off the role of the Doctor and became better known for something else.

[Paul McEnery]

Well to be fair Baker was pissed an awful lot in his last series but he'd certainly carried on far too long in the role to the extent that the programme was becoming stale.

Personally I'd prefer Moffat to start with a fresh Doctor & for Tennant to potter off to do other things before he gets stuck being as typecast as Tom Baker was. It took Baker 20 years before he shook off the role of the Doctor and became better known for something else.

Trading on his role as Doctor Who?

[king mob]

Direct link? Pretty please?

Here you go. (http://www.gallifreyone.com/picview.php?ret=news&sub=news&id=brig001.jpg)

[king mob]

Trading on his role as Doctor Who?

Well yes, that's different than being typecast as Baker was though.

[Ontir]

Personally I'd prefer Moffat to start with a fresh Doctor & for Tennant to potter off to do other things before he gets stuck being as typecast as Tom Baker was. It took Baker 20 years before he shook off the role of the Doctor and became better known for something else.

What I'd love to see them do, is to team Tennant's Doctor up with the next Doctor. When the story ends, we follow this new Doctor, leaving a gap of stories from Tennant's end, to the new Doctor's beginning. This way they can bring Tennant and companion back from time to time, and run stories across Time Lord arcs.

Why do we always have to follow just one?

[berk]

I'd like to see a new Doctor to get Moffatt's reign off to a fresh start as well. It wasn't really until this year that I finally got used to Tennant in the role, and I don't mind him too much now, but still wouldn't mind seeing someone new. Maybe someone a little older, just to bring a different feeling to the show. Especially to get away from the whole Doctor/companion romance angle that's marred the runs of all three companions from the current revival. I never really took to Rose, so I didn't see her as a credible object of attraction for the Doctor. Martha was the most likeable (and prettiest!) of the three but the unrequited love schtick they saddled her with at the end really undermined the character for me. And with Donna they spent so much time emphasizing that she and the Doctor were NOT interested in each other, that the idea of a romance was left hanging over their heads the whole time.

[Spike-X]

I wouldn't mind seeing a male companion for the next Doctor in 2010. Or even for Ten next year.

[mattx110]

I wouldn't mind seeing a male companion for the next Doctor in 2010. Or even for Ten next year.
Tennant: "can he at least be blonde? And... have a hot sister?":redface:

[mattx110]

Courtesy if TC (I think) who posted this article over at LITG,


"I don’t actually watch it. I didn’t even watch it when I was in it, for all sorts of reasons... but I do get messages from David Tennant"-Tom Baker

[Captain Jim]

Here you go. (http://www.gallifreyone.com/picview.php?ret=news&sub=news&id=brig001.jpg)

I didn't recognize his picture; I had to go back and read the spoilers.

This is definitely good news, though. (Assuming that SciFi continues to broadcast these in the US.)

[Captain Jim]

I'm glad for that picture link a ways back. While on Outpost Gallifrey I picked up the following news:

North America DVD News
DVD and VideoJuly 5, 2008 • Posted By Shaun Lyon
The TV Shows on DVD website has provided a preview of the latest announced DVDs for the North American market, both due in October: The Trial of a Time Lord Boxed Set, starring Colin Baker, Nicola Bryant and Bonnie Langford, and The Brain of Morbius starring Tom Baker and Elisabeth Sladen. The box covers for the North America (US/Canada) releases are below; click on each for a larger version. (A new version of the "Morbius" disc release has now been uploaded). The "Trial of a Time Lord" set (four discs) includes commentaries by C. Baker, Bryant, Tony Selby (Glitz), script editor Eric Saward, writers Pip & Jane Baker, director Chris Clough and others, as well as "Making Of" featurettes, deleted and extended scenes, interview features, trailers, news coverage and documentaries (and even the famous "Doctor in Distress" music video!) The "Morbius" disc includes commentaries by T. Baker, Sladen, Philip Madoc (Solon), director Christopher Barry and producer Philip Hinchcliffe, a short documentary, trailers and photos.

Meanwhile, here is the complete schedule for announced DVD releases in North America for the rest of the year (subject to change and addition, of course):

The Time Meddler (William Hartnell), August 5

Black Orchid (Peter Davison), August 5

The Five Doctors: 25th Anniversary Edition, August 5

The Invisible Enemy (Tom Baker), which also includes K9 and Company, September 2

The Invasion of Time (Tom Baker), September 2

Torchwood: The Complete Second Series, September 16

Torchwood: The Complete First Series - Blu-Ray Edition, September 16

The Brain of Morbius (Tom Baker), October 7

The Trial of a Time Lord Boxed Set (Colin Baker), October 7
Recent North America releases (in case you haven't picked them up) included "The Time Warrior" and "Timelash" in April, "Planet of Evil" and "Destiny of the Daleks" before that in March, and "Torchwood: The Complete First Series" back in January.

With thanks to the Doctor Who DVD FAQ.

[rick]

Well yes, that's different than being typecast as Baker was though.


Sorry, my eyes aren't as good as they should be, but was that Alistair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart (Nicholas Courtney)????????? :eek:

[Captain Jim]

Does anybody know if there will be an ongoing companion during next year's specials? In my mind, it would help the transition--whenever Tennent does leave--if they already had a companion on hand who would stick around. I think that helped the show a lot when Eccleston left after only one season, having Billie Piper and the others continue on for another season.

[Captain Jim]

Sorry, my eyes aren't as good as they should be, but was that Alistair Gordon Lethbridge-Stewart (Nicholas Courtney)????????? :eek:

Yes, it was. Your eyes are better than mine; I never would have figured it out if I hadn't gone back to the previous page and clicked on the spoilers.

[rick]

Yes, it was. Your eyes are better than mine; I never would have figured it out if I hadn't gone back to the previous page and clicked on the spoilers.


That is without a doubt the coolest, best piece of news I have had this week.

I know they are going to show these on Sci-Fi, but I just might have to whip out the ol Satellite Controlled Magic Crystal Radio Set and get that one direct from the BBC just so I don't have to wait.

[Captain Jim]

Well, I hope they show series two on SciFi. They certainly made short work of Series One--airing two episodes back to back and dispensing of the whole thing within a few short weeks.

[berk]

Just remembered another thing I'd like to see: if they ever go with having more than one Companion at a time (which I also wouldn't mind seeing), I'd like one of them to be either an alien - what's so special about this particular planet? - or someone from another era of history - what's so special about this particular time?

Obviously the answer to both questiions is that they want a character to act as the viewer's anchor, and it makes it more plausible when a lot of stories set on current day earth. But I think it'd be nice to have someone from, say the Renaissance or ancient China or something, as long as they didn't didn't do it in a patronizing way. Be funny if the one from 200 BCE or whatever happened to be so smart they caught on faster than the 21st century guy; and if the Doctor didn't see much difference between their respective levels of technological development.

[king mob]

Does anybody know if there will be an ongoing companion during next year's specials?

Don't know yet, they've kept it quiet as to their plans. David Morrissey is guest starring if that means we might get a male companion for Christmas.

[king mob]

The K9 boxset is rather mixed quality. I can't remember ever seeing The Invisible Enemy when it was broadcast & although it's nothing more than Who doing Fantasic Voyage, it's a harmless bit of fluff.

K9 & Company is every bit as shite as I remembered it. Terrible stuff with possibly the worst theme music you'll ever hear.

[Stressfactor]

Just remembered another thing I'd like to see: if they ever go with having more than one Companion at a time (which I also wouldn't mind seeing), I'd like one of them to be either an alien - what's so special about this particular planet? - or someone from another era of history - what's so special about this particular time?

Obviously the answer to both questiions is that they want a character to act as the viewer's anchor, and it makes it more plausible when a lot of stories set on current day earth. But I think it'd be nice to have someone from, say the Renaissance or ancient China or something, as long as they didn't didn't do it in a patronizing way. Be funny if the one from 200 BCE or whatever happened to be so smart they caught on faster than the 21st century guy; and if the Doctor didn't see much difference between their respective levels of technological development.

Well, originally most alien companions still had to look basically human because make-up effects can be quite costly -- particularly considering they would have to be done for every single day that character was filmed. It's one of the reasons Spock only had the ears and the eyebrows in the old Star Trek series. Nowadays, though, while make-up can still be expensive there is a lot more that can be done easily and on the cheap so... long story short... not only would I, too, like to see an alien companion I'd like to see one that genuinely LOOKS alien.

As for companions who come from history -- Classic Who used to do that -- in fact, the Second Doctor for quite a while ONLY traveled with companions from the past -- Jamie was from 1745 Scotland and Victoria was from 1866 England and both adjusted to futuristic things quite well. It's interesting but, now that I think of it, Jamie was the last companion to come from the past -- every other companion after that was either contemporary times to when the series was being filmed, came from the future, or else was a humanoid alien.

I'd like the series to bring in a teenager as a companion again. After all, the show was originally a kids' program and the idea of having a teenager character was supposed to help give the kids something to relate to. It seems the companions started going up in age as the age of the audience started going up but now that the series is attracting viewers from 5 to 75 it might not be amiss to try an experiment at giving the show a bit younger character that younger kids could better identify with.

[OZZ]

Really, NOT a good idea. every actor gets tired of a role eventually and when they do the results are usually not pretty. By Tom Baker's final season you could really see the role was wearing on him -- he looked tired and often acted like he didn't care anymore.

Stop you and your logic!
:tongue:

Still though, I would love to see Tennant have at least a season under full Moffat control.


No, RTD has four more specials to write including the already completed Christmas 2008 special. Three specials will be broadcast over three bank holiday weekends next year & it's not been confirmed yet but the rumour is that Moffat will write the 2009 Christmas special.

Ahhh. Poo. I was hoping they'd squeeze one more in for us between Christmases...
Oh well.

Thanks for clearing that up. :smile:

[Spike-X]

I'd be very surprised to see Tennant still playing the Doctor in 2010.

[king mob]

I'd like the series to bring in a teenager as a companion again. After all, the show was originally a kids' program and the idea of having a teenager character was supposed to help give the kids something to relate to. It seems the companions started going up in age as the age of the audience started going up but now that the series is attracting viewers from 5 to 75 it might not be amiss to try an experiment at giving the show a bit younger character that younger kids could better identify with.

It still is a kids/family programme but having anothe Billie type character so soon could be harmful as the kids know the programme now. Billie did her job, she provided that hook for kids, especially young girls who were never really included in the audience for classic Who.

If we're going to have a female companion then one from outside of London would be nice to give us a break from three London based companions.

[king mob]

I found this on another forum. It's Ian Levine on Did You See from the late 80's moaning that the last ' 8 or 9 years of the programme were rubbish'. So that's the same time he was serving as advisor to JNT.

Enjoy and see where the inspiration for the Absorbaloff came from. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhmDtETW2kU)

[Stressfactor]

A teenager from the past would be a nice hook I think -- particularly if the character didn't come from the upper classes. It would be something a little bit different, it would be someone the kids could relate to, and yet, with just a tiny bit of historical research, it could be an entertaining way to contrast the lifestyles, social mores, and outlooks that kids enjoy today vs. the lifestyles, social mores, and outlooks their anscestors had.

[Ontir]

Wiki lists something called Dalek porn. I don't even want to know.

The things one can get up to with an eye stalk and a plunger! :evilsmile:

[thehod]

A teenager from the past would be a nice hook I think -- particularly if the character didn't come from the upper classes. It would be something a little bit different, it would be someone the kids could relate to, and yet, with just a tiny bit of historical research, it could be an entertaining way to contrast the lifestyles, social mores, and outlooks that kids enjoy today vs. the lifestyles, social mores, and outlooks their anscestors had.

I tell ya, someones gonna come looking for my idea for The Princes in the Tower to be companions anyday now....

...anyday.

[berk]

Well, originally most alien companions still had to look basically human because make-up effects can be quite costly -- particularly considering they would have to be done for every single day that character was filmed. It's one of the reasons Spock only had the ears and the eyebrows in the old Star Trek series. Nowadays, though, while make-up can still be expensive there is a lot more that can be done easily and on the cheap so... long story short... not only would I, too, like to see an alien companion I'd like to see one that genuinely LOOKS alien.

As for companions who come from history -- Classic Who used to do that -- in fact, the Second Doctor for quite a while ONLY traveled with companions from the past -- Jamie was from 1745 Scotland and Victoria was from 1866 England and both adjusted to futuristic things quite well. It's interesting but, now that I think of it, Jamie was the last companion to come from the past -- every other companion after that was either contemporary times to when the series was being filmed, came from the future, or else was a humanoid alien.

I'd like the series to bring in a teenager as a companion again. After all, the show was originally a kids' program and the idea of having a teenager character was supposed to help give the kids something to relate to. It seems the companions started going up in age as the age of the audience started going up but now that the series is attracting viewers from 5 to 75 it might not be amiss to try an experiment at giving the show a bit younger character that younger kids could better identify with. Nice to hear they did that; I'd like to see them go back to something like it again. I didn't see the Doctor Who show growing up; by the time it came to Canada, in the 80s I think it was, I was past the target age group. Although, I think the Peter Cushing movie might have been the very first film I ever saw at the theatre when I was a small kid in the 60s. I'd really like to go back and watch some of the old series highlights on dvd sometime the next few years.

I don't mind aliens looking like humans. A big special effects budgets doesn't impress me all that much. I'll take the Original Star Trek, Serling's Twilight Zone, the Hitchhiker`s Guide tv series over Star Trek NG, the 90s TZ or the HG movie any day of the week: because they had the stories, the characters, the ideas, the writing, all of which made the low-budget S/E irrelevant.

And yeah, if they keep the Doctor at the present apparent age - late20, early 30s? - I wouldn't mind some younger companions, just to get away from the automatic casting of the Doctor/Companioon relationship as a romance or anti-romance. Be nice to see a relationship that doesn't rely on sexual tension to generate fan interest.

[Stressfactor]

Nice to hear they did that; I'd like to see them go back to something like it again. I didn't see the Doctor Who show growing up; by the time it came to Canada, in the 80s I think it was, I was past the target age group. Although, I think the Peter Cushing movie might have been the very first film I ever saw at the theatre when I was a small kid in the 60s. I'd really like to go back and watch some of the old series highlights on dvd sometime the next few years.

I've not been into "Doctor Who" that long myself -- only about a year or so seriously. Before that a smattering of exposure via PBS in the 80's and 90's -- mostly Baker-Davison-Baker-McCoy stuff.

Last year I started poking around on YouTube and found that, with various posters, there was almost a full run of eps available -- everything from Hartnell through McCoy. Since then, though, the BBC went cracking down and a lot of them disappeared.

[Ben Morgan]

So I started watching the new series and just finished the first season, I have to say it was really good. What was everyone's favorite episode of the 1st season?

[LordEd1976]

So I started watching the new series and just finished the first season, I have to say it was really good. What was everyone's favorite episode of the 1st season?

"Dalek". Followed by "Father's day".

[king mob]

Last year I started poking around on YouTube and found that, with various posters, there was almost a full run of eps available -- everything from Hartnell through McCoy. Since then, though, the BBC went cracking down and a lot of them disappeared.


The BBC started doing that because they came to an arrangement with Youtube to broadcast promotional material for their programmes. There are still sites that still have plenty of material out there.
For anyone living here in the UK, Zavvi are selling loads of Who DVD's incredibly cheap still, normally for less than a tenner plus series one & two of the new series for 40 quid.

[Spike-X]

http://www.bettercomics.com/ebay/whomac14.jpg

[Typo Lad]

So I started watching the new series and just finished the first season, I have to say it was really good. What was everyone's favorite episode of the 1st season?
Hmmm.

I'd have to go with "Dalek".

[ZT4]

http://www.bettercomics.com/ebay/whomac14.jpg

And they ought to watch something else and let fans who had fun with his scripts watch it and enjoy it for what it is.

[Spike-X]

And they ought to watch something else and let fans who had fun with his scripts watch it and enjoy it for what it is.
That's just crazy talk!

Not only are the 'real fans' entitled to Doctor Who, they're entitled to have it done exactly how they want it at all times.

[king mob]

And they ought to watch something else and let fans who had fun with his scripts watch it and enjoy it for what it is.

And what if it's crap but they'd like it to be better, do they just fall in with the OG lot who refuse to hear any criticism of the programme at all?

[king mob]

That's just crazy talk!

Not only are the 'real fans' entitled to Doctor Who, they're entitled to have it done exactly how they want it at all times.

I'm always amused by the section of Who fans on OG who used to claim that the new series would be perfect if it was Sylvester McCoy & Sophie Aldred being chased down corridors by Davros & Fenric but on a HUGE budget.

[mattx110]

I'm always amused by the section of Who fans on OG who used to claim that the new series would be perfect if it was Sylvester McCoy & Sophie Aldred being chased down corridors by Davros & Fenric but on a HUGE budget.
honestly, I'd love that, and I recently watched the ghost of agh, can't remember the name, but it was really creepy and kinda smart. I'd like to see stuff like that with McCoy Aldred and a budget.

Ace was fricken lettin' her madness show, and the Doctor is both cathartic and cruel.


And Rose was "19" when she came onto the show, making D9-10 really sorta creepy. I mean, he just had a big war... can anyone say "mid-life crisis"?

[Deathstroke]

Can someone spoil me on the "Midnight" episode?

I fell asleep while watching it last night. I don't know how it ended.

[king mob]

And Rose was "19" when she came onto the show, making D9-10 really sorta creepy. I mean, he just had a big war... can anyone say "mid-life crisis"?

It's no weirder than her ex-husband essentially stalking her the moment she turned 16 & chatting her up on live telly in front of millions.

[rick]

It's no weirder than her ex-husband essentially stalking her the moment she turned 16 & chatting her up on live telly in front of millions.

I think that I'm glad we missed getting to see that over here in the States.

[Spike-X]

http://seriouscybernetics.net/misc/wtpa.jpg

[king mob]

I think that I'm glad we missed getting to see that over here in the States.

It did allow one wit to wheel out the classic line 'so Billie, what attracted you to the millionaire Chris Evans?'.

[Cyke]

http://seriouscybernetics.net/misc/wtpa.jpg

Screw that, man. Everybody knows it was a terrorist fist jab. That's right, according to Fox News, the Doctor's a terrorist!

[mattx110]

It's no weirder than her ex-husband essentially stalking her the moment she turned 16 & chatting her up on live telly in front of millions.
Well, our talk shows suck...

When Jay Leno does Top Gear, it's gonna be so much better than the Tonight Show (hopefully). But nothing fun like stalking and coupling occurs on American talk shows. Sometimes it's fun depending on who is on them, but I've never seen anything as fun as Spicks and Specks or Never Mind the Buzzcocks. The whole "I'm here for 4 minutes between commercials to tell people to see my movie" takes all the fun out of it.

Although Craig Ferguson is great, and can do creepy come-ons quite well.

[Spike-X]

Screw that, man. Everybody knows it was a terrorist fist jab. That's right, according to Fox News, the Doctor's a terrorist!
No, no, no. It's Mickey who's the terrorist.

It's only a terrorist fist-bump if the person's black.

[mattx110]

No, no, no. It's Mickey who's the terrorist.

It's only a terrorist fist-bump if the person's black.
Depending on your view of cybermen Mickey could be a terrorist.

The Doctor definitely is. He's blown up more shit than anyone in the Universe.

[Stressfactor]

I was out shopping this afternoon and spotted a girl wearing a t-shirt with a drawing of the TARDIS on it emblazoned with the words: "You Never Forget Your First Doctor".

Right now I'm going through Series Four Withdrawl. This is the first weekend where I wouldn't be rushing to YouTube right about now to catch the latest ep as it was uploaded... and gotta wait till CHRISTMAS to catch anything new! :eek:

By the way Matt -- that McCoy ep you mentioned that you couldn't recall the title to? Sounds like it was "Ghostlight".

[Deathstroke]

"Midnight" Spoilers?

[Spike-X]

Here ya go. (http://randomremarks.wordpress.com/2008/06/15/doctor-who-410-midnight-summary-and-analysis-spoilers/)

[mattx110]

I was out shopping this afternoon and spotted a girl wearing a t-shirt with a drawing of the TARDIS on it emblazoned with the words: "You Never Forget Your First Doctor".

Right now I'm going through Series Four Withdrawl. This is the first weekend where I wouldn't be rushing to YouTube right about now to catch the latest ep as it was uploaded... and gotta wait till CHRISTMAS to catch anything new! :eek:

By the way Matt -- that McCoy ep you mentioned that you couldn't recall the title to? Sounds like it was "Ghostlight".
Yes it is, thanks. Creepy creepy thing.

[Deathstroke]

Here ya go. (http://randomremarks.wordpress.com/2008/06/15/doctor-who-410-midnight-summary-and-analysis-spoilers/)

Thanks Spike-X!

[ZT4]

Quite hilarious that the reviewer "didnt like" what was essentially the reasons the episode was as challenging and deep in the first place

[king mob]

Although Craig Ferguson is great, and can do creepy come-ons quite well.

I can remember Ferguson doing his Bing Hitler routine years ago and thinking he's got talent but I'll stick with Jerry Sadowitz who did the same material much better when he did it first.

If anyone fancies tickets for the Doctor Who Proms concert, there's some stupidly cheap ones knocking around on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320273481569&ih=011&category=1450&ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1). I might be free that weekend & I'm rather tempted to pop down to London to see this.

[Doodle Bob]

Has anyone else noticed that the general theme of this season seems to be "People sacrificing their lives to save the Doctor", particularly complete strangers? It's getting a bit creepy.

[mattx110]

Quite hilarious that the reviewer "didnt like" what was essentially the reasons the episode was as challenging and deep in the first place
Sometimes you notice something and it seems out of place, even if it makes sense to others. I've not been guilty of this because I'm amazing, but others have... Some people can't see the glory that is D8: The Mighty Ducks Again (and Again). I can.
Has anyone else noticed that the general theme of this season seems to be "People sacrificing their lives to save the Doctor", particularly complete strangers? It's getting a bit creepy.
Well, the previous season he was suicidal and reckless. Which is what Donna saved him from. The overall theme is "someone has to die".

[Ontir]

It plays into what Davros said about him. He turns people into weapons. He doesn't mean to, but that's the affect of his activities. I don't think it's possible, sans a mind-wipe, to leave the Doctor and go back to any kind of a "normal" life. Not once you know what's out there, and can recognize signs of danger that others will miss. The other thing is that when it comes down to it, the Doctor has to be saved if he's in peril. He can do things that no one else can, but he's not impervious, and there aren't other Time Lords to step in and fix what goes amiss.

[ZT4]

Sometimes you notice something and it seems out of place, even if it makes sense to others. I've not been guilty of this because I'm amazing, but others have... Some people can't see the glory that is D8: The Mighty Ducks Again (and Again). I can.

That franchise had more legs than High School Musical...:frown:

[Ronald Bryan]

I caught Midnight on Friday night. Very good episode.

[Stressfactor]

It plays into what Davros said about him. He turns people into weapons. He doesn't mean to, but that's the affect of his activities. I don't think it's possible, sans a mind-wipe, to leave the Doctor and go back to any kind of a "normal" life. Not once you know what's out there, and can recognize signs of danger that others will miss. The other thing is that when it comes down to it, the Doctor has to be saved if he's in peril. He can do things that no one else can, but he's not impervious, and there aren't other Time Lords to step in and fix what goes amiss.

But that's taking the idea that Davros is correct. The demented little withered bad apple is NOT correct. What happens to the Doctor's comanions is NOT that they become WEAPONS... they become superheroes. Okay, well, maybe with the exception of Torchwood... they're a little weapon crazy...

The Doctor let Davros get to him when, the fact of the matter was that every single person who was there, every single person who was willing to sacrifice their life was doing so out of LOVE and HOPE. Love for the Doctor, love for friends and family on Earth to whom they would do anything to stop their suffering, and hope that, if they could stop the Daleks -- even if it cost them their lives, even if it cost them their planet, countless other worlds, the whole of reality would continue on.

It would seem, though, that Doctor has a bit of a complex in not truly beliving himself worthy of this love and admiration.

And really, what the companions have done is the ultimate tribute to the Doctor in other ways as well... They have not become weapons they have become mechanics. Everywhere the Doctor went he tried to fix things that were broken, try to keep the balance in the starts and, in the end, isn't that what all these human copanions are trying to do? They see the problems between where "space" meets their little world. They can't leave their planet so they can't fix what else is wrong out there but they can do their darndest to keep their little corner of the universe in working order.

It's really what "The Sarah Jane Adventures" is all about. The Doctor taught Sarah Jane about fixing things with compassion but also not letting her world be bullied about and now she is passing on those lessons to another generation.

[Ontir]

Hero or villain, they're still a weapon, and Davros is exactly correct, because he's been fed/has seen the Doctor's life. Yes, he's got his spin on it, but what he's said is NOT wrong.

Love and devotion does nothing to make them any less a weapon.

[mattx110]

That franchise had more legs than High School Musical...:frown:
I loved all of them. Even D3 (or 4), whichever was the last one.

Anyway, the Doctor thinks he's the only one capable of handling the responsibility of "the button", and he thinks he's a monster for being the only one left, because the way he became that was wiping out billions of life forms. He's being rational when he sees Jack with a warp star and Martha with her hand on 15 nukes and hates it. He's the one that should be suffering/fighting. He's had that relationship with Donna where she was less afraid of getting involved, saving people who shouldn't've been saved, killing the mentally unstable wasp, and suddenly he's not alone with the big questions. When you have the power he has, you're either the Devil, or God. People aren't supposed to be asgood, or as bad to take those roles, but they really are, and he makes it happen.

He's a very guilt-riddled old man.

[Spike-X]

Hero or villain, they're still a weapon, and Davros is exactly correct, because he's been fed/has seen the Doctor's life. Yes, he's got his spin on it, but what he's said is NOT wrong.

Love and devotion does nothing to make them any less a weapon.
And, as the other continuing theme of the season has shown, sometimes you need a weapon.

[Spike-X]

Hero or villain, they're still a weapon, and Davros is exactly correct, because he's been fed/has seen the Doctor's life. Yes, he's got his spin on it, but what he's said is NOT wrong.

Love and devotion does nothing to make them any less a weapon.
And, as the other continuing theme of the season has shown, sometimes you need a weapon.

[Stressfactor]

I still don't think they are "weapons" -- on that point we will have to agree to disagree BUT even if someone DID want to classify them as weapons that still doesn't mean that the Doctor CREATED them. That absolves the (former) companions of all free will.

The Doctor did not, does not, ask his companions to do what they have done -- they do it because THEY want to. And yes, they are put in dangerous situations in their travels with him but that does not automatically mean they HAVE to become warriors because of it. Consider out of ALL the Doctor's surviving companions -- Ian and Barbara, Vicki, Dodo, Steven (who actually became a peacemaker, not a warrior), Ben, Polly, Victoria, Liz, Jo, Nyssa, Tegan, Turlough, Peri, and Mel there is NO indication that THEIR travels with the Doctor left them with any desire to become warriors.* Therefore, Davros's arguement still does not hold water because THE DOCTOR does not create "weapons", the companions make those decisions all on their own.

*I'm not counting Leela because she was a warrior when the Doctor picked her up, I'm not counting Romana because of the Time War -- although argueably she didn't want to do what she ended up doing either, and I'm not counting Ace because Ace was pretty much a warrior too when the Doctor met her.

[Ontir]

The Doctor takes ordinary people from their respective worlds, and shows them a much larger universe, in many cases well beyond anything their societies would encounter, sometimes for millenia, if ever. They are exposed to technologies and paradigms they couldn't have dreamt of.

Then they (usually) get deposited back into the worlds from which they came. There's no going back (without a mind-wipe) from that experience. It would be like taking slave from Mississippi to 2009 to see the inauguration of Barak Obama, and then taking him back to his family, expecting him to be the slave he was before. That's not going to work.

This is what makes them weapons. They can't stand back and not work to change things, and often they do it by arming themselves. (In Leela's case she started out that way and somewhat softened.) The term weapon isn't necessarily a negative. There are times when a weapon is needed, because sadly reason doesn't always win the day, but being a weapon also doesn't mean one HAS to be a lethal weapon.

Davros wasn't wrong, he just skewed the data a bit.

[king mob]

It was interesting watching the BBC's repeat of the finale of this series, espcially to see if Journey'd End improved as part of a continuous viewing. It didn't, if anything it made it's flaws even more painful as the story does crack along brilliantly until Doctor Donna pops up.

Still, it was fun seeing these episodes together so quickly after the first broadcast & it was a nice way to spend a Sunday afternoon.

[Ontir]

Why do you even bother to watch something you clearly can't stand?

[Stressfactor]

Be fair Ontir -- King Mob clearly states that it was "fun" re-seeing the episodes and "a nice way to spend a Sunday afternoon."

Mob has said on multiple other times that the show is "enjoyable" it's just that he thinks it could be BETTER... that's a long way from saying something is terrible, horrible, and they wouldn't ever watch it.

I, myself, enjoyed certain aspects of the finale but that doesn't mean that I was blind to the gaping plot holes and the throwing the laws of physics out of a VERY large window. And before you say it, I KNOW the show has a looong and celebrated history of dodgy science (hell, it had a long history of dodgy history too -- back in the days when they used to do historicals) but it's like comic books... there is psuedo science that manages to SOUND and POSITION itself so that it COULD be plausible if you don't look to close and just let it wash over you and then there is the pseudo science that is so OVER THE TOP and blatant that it just smacks you in the face as being completely stupid.

So yeah, I had problems with it too -- it was an ENJOYABLE episode -- but not a stunning one that I would want to watch over, and over again.

Just because King Mob is blunt in his critiques does not mean that he hates the show or wants to see it end.

Besides all of that -- haven't you ever enjoyed something against all reason? A TV show, a movie, a comic book... and you sit down and you REALLY look at and you enumerate everything that's logically wrong with it -- bad script, stilted dialogue, bad art (in the case of a comic book), bad casting and yet, for some strange reason, you still have fun watching or reading it?

[Ontir]

I always seem to miss the "enjoyable" in his posts.

[Omac70]

And Rose was "19" when she came onto the show, making D9-10 really sorta creepy. I mean, he just had a big war... can anyone say "mid-life crisis"?It's no weirder than her ex-husband essentially stalking her the moment she turned 16 & chatting her up on live telly in front of millions.
...and then later topping even that by chatting her up on live telly in front of millions as their divorce was going through...

[Paul McEnery]

And, as the other continuing theme of the season has shown, sometimes you need a weapon.

And the point that got buried in the script (or the direction), in this episode, it's the Doctor and Donna who are the weapon, but they're Dalek Cahn's weapon.

[Stressfactor]

And the point that got buried in the script (or the direction), in this episode, it's the Doctor and Donna who are the weapon, but they're Dalek Cahn's weapon.

The ending felt really rushed and I think that's why a lot of Dalek Caan's duplicity got buried. That and the fact that stuff was blowing up and there was loud music and all kinds of crap going on when that was revealed.

But overall, I did think the ending was rushed -- all the build-up to the destruction of the Daleks and then it was just... over. If the rumors are true about deleted scenes showing up on the DVD release I'll be interested to see if the ending still comes off rushed.

[berk]

Dalek Cahn should get his own spin-off series!

[ZT4]

New trailer for The Sarah Jane Adventures (spoilers of two returning enemies included)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDx_oQfcJ7M

[king mob]

I always seem to miss the "enjoyable" in his posts.

Stress answered a lot of it for me but it's there, including the fact I mentioned it was a fun way to spend a Sunday afternoon. I'm not going to lavish appreciation upon something if it's crap, & large chunks of Journey's End is appaulling telly & as I've said constantly, I expect better from RTD than 'Donna flicks a switch'.

I've praised RTD's work previous to Who & still think that Queer As Folk & Bob & Rose are two of the best dramas to have been broadcast on British telly ever. Some of his Who work is excellent, Midnight I praised highly on here, but a lot of it is at times painfully underwritten such as the point that Paul made about Dalek Caan turning the Doctor & Donna into his weapons. Other times it's just rubbish like Partners In Crime.

I enjoy the programme more than I have since the Peter Davison days, but this series has been poor compared to the first three years so I'm not going to praise bad episodes or bad writing because I love the programme itself. It's one of the few programmes I actually do watch regularly but I want it to stop falling into the bad habits of other British dramas at the moment.

Personally I'm glad RTD is leaving because we might see him return to writing the sort of drama that made his name, but as I've said, I'd like to see him return to Who occasionally to do the odd script but no bloody finales.

[king mob]

...and then later topping even that by chatting her up on live telly in front of millions as their divorce was going through...

I forgot about that. That was very, very odd.

[mattx110]

Dalek Cahn should get his own spin-off series!
"One Crazy Dalek in Space"

[king mob]

Here's a couple of treats.

Adventures In Time & Space (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8641447526313476464&hl=en), the 1999 documentary shown as part of BBC2's Doctor Who night from that year. The sound is a bit out but it's otherwise good quality.

From the same night the uncut David Walliams/Mark Gatiss (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7Y4gWxiPHo) sketch that ended up pissing off Sylvester McCoy.

[ragnarok_2012]

http://seriouscybernetics.net/misc/wtpa.jpg

Screw that, man. Everybody knows it was a terrorist fist jab. That's right, according to Fox News, the Doctor's a terrorist!

http://www.lauriebird.com/lj/fist.jpg

[ragnarok_2012]

http://www.bettercomics.com/ebay/martha9.jpg

[Typo Lad]

Um, that's not how one spells "time".

[LordEd1976]

New trailer for The Sarah Jane Adventures (spoilers of two returning enemies included)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDx_oQfcJ7M

not only are we getting old enemies returning but also an old friend.

[Ontir]

http://www.bettercomics.com/ebay/martha9.jpg

I have, on several occasions, used the dreaded Häagen-Dazs Key!

[ragnarok_2012]

Um, that's not how one spells "time".

These are from a Doctor Who macro community.

Like with cat macros, spelling is open-ended.....

[Paul McEnery]

Um, that's not how one spells "time".

Show off!




I have lived to see Typo Lad correcting LOL spelling.

Calloo callay!









Also, I have bad joke:

So the proper ending to the season is the Daleks wheel on to the set to speak to all humanity and say:

All your bees are belong to us!



And, I have pointless speculation:

So, Rose manipulated all of time and space, Dalek Cahn manipulated all of time and space, the bug manipulates all of time and space. How? MAGIC?

So that's sort of annoying. If you're going to do Time War, do it properly in the Moffety manner.

But anyway, that leaves us with the presumed end of not quite Season 5, where the Doctor finally reinstates Gallifrey.

Probably by bug. Hey, why not? It's an open-ended set up, ain't it. Who sent the bug after Donna? Because that's not Dalek Cahn's work, is it.

But however it happens, when he enters into that timey-wimey flux, who'll be waiting for him there but Rose and Cahn?

[berk]

Personally, I think I've seen enough of Rose. I wouldn't mind seeing Martha or Donna back for guest appearances, though. I assumed the Bug was part of the Davros/Dalek conspiracy to keep the Doctor from interfering with their plans, but maybe that doesn't make sense; I probably wasn't paying as close attention as I might have.

[king mob]

I assumed the Bug was part of the Davros/Dalek conspiracy to keep the Doctor from interfering with their plans, but maybe that doesn't make sense; I probably wasn't paying as close attention as I might have.

The bug was part of The Trickster's mucking about with reality that we first saw in Sarah Jane Adventures.

[Stressfactor]

Yeah, looks like the Trickster enjoys targeting the Doctor's companions for crap.

I would love to see the Trickster himself crossover into "Doctor Who" proper and have a go at the Doctor directly. One of the most interesting new villains to come up in recent years -- has the potential to be as powerful and scary as the Black Guardian.

[ZT4]

Don't expect Gallifrey back anytime soon. Moffat despises it.

[Ontir]

I don't expect we'll ever see the restoration, or un-doing of the death of Gallifrey. Down the line, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Doctor begin to put together a replacement society. I don't think he's the last Time Lord, even beyond Genny and the Master.

[Paul McEnery]

The bug was part of The Trickster's mucking about with reality that we first saw in Sarah Jane Adventures.

Ah. Only saw one episode of SJA.

So, was that woman the Trickster, then?

(And is she a Time Lord?)

[Stressfactor]

Ah. Only saw one episode of SJA.

So, was that woman the Trickster, then?

(And is she a Time Lord?)

No the woman (and the bug) were only agents of the Trickster. THIS is the Trickster http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/tardis/images/8/8a/Trickster.jpg

Spoilers for the SJA ep: "Whatever Happened to Sarah Jane" In the SJA episode it was revealed that the Trickster lives to create chaos and destruction (he had a GREAT line of dialogue that echoed Sutekh's famous "Wherever I tread I leave dust and destruction... blah, blah... I find that good." line). To this end it turns out that when Sarah Jane was 13 she and her friend Andrea Yates went playing on a damaged pier. Andrea fell into the water and died. The Trickster went back in time and offered 13 year old Andrea a choice -- she could live but only if she switched places with Sarah Jane -- i.e. SJ would be the one to fall off the pier and die at 13. Andrea made the bargain and time was changed.

Suddenly, Andrea was living in SJ house and the Doctor had never traveled with SJ -- time had moved around them. This also meant that Luke had ceased to exist as well. Only Maria remembered because SJ had given her an alien puzzle box that a soothsayer had said SJ should give to the person she trusted the most.

Maria started trying to piece things together to find out what had happened and meanwhile a killer asteroid was headed for the Earth which SJ had prepared her computer Mr. Smith for to get rid of it but now there was no SJ and no Mr. Smith so the asteroid would destroy the Earth.

Since Maria was getting too close the Trickster had HER erased from existence as well but her dad, Alan, had been holding the puzzle box when it happened so he kept his memories of his daughter. Spotting an alien who had been working for the Trickster, Alan forced it to tell him how to get Maria back. Once they had done this they tried to get SJ back but learned the only way to do it would be for Andrea to give up her bargain with the Trickster. She eventually agreed and time was restored with Andrea dying at 13 and SJ coming back along with Luke just in time to stop the asteroid.

It was a really smart episode for a kid's show -- I was impressed.

[Ontir]

That Trickster's pretty gruesome for a "kiddie show!"

[king mob]

I don't expect we'll ever see the restoration, or un-doing of the death of Gallifrey. Down the line, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Doctor begin to put together a replacement society. I don't think he's the last Time Lord, even beyond Genny and the Master.

I wouldn't be so sure that Gallifrey won't ever return, if Moffat or whomever is in charge decides to bring it back then they will. Over the last four years they've slowly introduced the mythology of the programme's history to an entirely new audience, so now most of the kids watching are not only aware of what Gallifrey is, but it's significance in the show.

[king mob]

It was a really smart episode for a kid's show -- I was impressed.

It's an excellent episode & one of the best things to come out of new Who.

[king mob]

That Trickster's pretty gruesome for a "kiddie show!"

It's part of the grand tradition of nastiness in British kid's telly. Davies's early work for kid's telly was great & had this vicious steak in it, especially Century Falls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_Falls).

The big influence on this work is Children Of The Stones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_the_Stones) which is still utter genius & stands as one of the best bits of kids drama ever produced on British telly.

[Stressfactor]

Found the clip where you can see the Trickster confronting Sarah Jane.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfjFsIWv3K0

[carabas]

Don't expect Gallifrey back anytime soon. Moffat despises it.Him despising classic Gallifrey does in no way prevent him from quite liking his own, hypothetically self-designed neo-Gallifrey.

[mattx110]

I don't expect we'll ever see the restoration, or un-doing of the death of Gallifrey. Down the line, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Doctor begin to put together a replacement society. I don't think he's the last Time Lord, even beyond Genny and the Master.
Donna! I swear she's a timelord.

And we'll get Gallifrey eventually.

[tricksterpup]

The bug was part of The Trickster's mucking about with reality that we first saw in Sarah Jane Adventures.

I had nothing to do with and please leave me out of it. :rolleyes:

[tricksterpup]

That Trickster's pretty gruesome for a "kiddie show!"

your not pretty yourself. :evilangry:

[ChrisIII]

Regarding the reinstatement of Gallifrey, the Eigth Doctor novels also wiped out the planet (although differently than the time war) but at the end of the novel series (The Gallifrey chronicles) had a loophole to restore them.

It's assumed by some fans who consider the novels canon that the Doctor saved Gallifrey, and that Gallifrey 2 was the one destroyed in the time war.


For those who don't, at least I think RTD was inspired by the novel series on this point-after all, the novels/audios have inspired several elements of the new series-mostly "Human Nature/Family of Blood" of course, but also "The Christmas Invasion" "The Doctor's Daughter" "Dalek" and others have borrowed heavily from the series. George Lucas has a similar stance with Star Wars, he has allowed certain elements from the novels/comics into live-action but is not bound to their continuity. Even Star Trek has done this once or twice, most notably with Sulu's first name.


It'd be interesting to see the time lords reimagined in some way. When we first meet the 'proper' time lords in the War Games (not renegades like the Monk, War chief etc.) they seem etheral and god-like. However, "Three Doctors" and later serials made them appear to be rather ordinary. The novels attempted to restore some of their mystique but I think their concepts alienated some fans.

[Ontir]

Donna! I swear she's a timelord.

And we'll get Gallifrey eventually.

If they bring Gallifrey back that would end it for me.

The planet is dead, and it needs to stay that way. Where the show needs to go, is to explore the power vacuum created by the passing of the Time Lords and the destruction of the Dalek Empire, not to mention all the other worlds that were lost in the Time Wars. There should be more Time Lords, and eventually they, being far less omnipotent then their predecessors, should establish a new base, but Gallifrey should be like Atlantis, with people arguing whether or not it every really existed.

[Ontir]

It's part of the grand tradition of nastiness in British kid's telly. Davies's early work for kid's telly was great & had this vicious steak in it, especially Century Falls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_Falls).

The big influence on this work is Children Of The Stones (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_the_Stones) which is still utter genius & stands as one of the best bits of kids drama ever produced on British telly.

I'd never head of either but they sound great! I'm going to have to hunt them down. I can see bits of "Torchwood" in "Stones" was well.

[Lightbend]

Regarding the reinstatement of Gallifrey, the Eigth Doctor novels also wiped out the planet (although differently than the time war) but at the end of the novel series (The Gallifrey chronicles) had a loophole to restore them.

It's assumed by some fans who consider the novels canon that the Doctor saved Gallifrey, and that Gallifrey 2 was the one destroyed in the time war.


For those who don't, at least I think RTD was inspired by the novel series on this point-after all, the novels/audios have inspired several elements of the new series-mostly "Human Nature/Family of Blood" of course, but also "The Christmas Invasion" "The Doctor's Daughter" "Dalek" and others have borrowed heavily from the series. George Lucas has a similar stance with Star Wars, he has allowed certain elements from the novels/comics into live-action but is not bound to their continuity. Even Star Trek has done this once or twice, most notably with Sulu's first name.


It'd be interesting to see the time lords reimagined in some way. When we first meet the 'proper' time lords in the War Games (not renegades like the Monk, War chief etc.) they seem etheral and god-like. However, "Three Doctors" and later serials made them appear to be rather ordinary. The novels attempted to restore some of their mystique but I think their concepts alienated some fans.

Depends on how it's done, as it is with anything.

From what I understand, Gallifrey can't be restored. The Doctor destroyed Gallifrey by causing the entire 10-million strong Dalek fleet to crash into it, destroying both. You restore Gallifrey, you restore the Daleks.

The Time Lords are a different matter. The show deals with a lot of ontological paradoxes. The Doctor can send a message to his 8th incarnation to send a message to the Time Lords to evacuate at JUST THIS MOMENT. Gallifrey empties, the Time Lords scatter, and they eventually establish a new Gallifrey-a third one, if the novels are canon.

[Ontir]

I don't think it's that simple. I think the final destruction of the Daleks meant the Time Lords, in an armada of TARDISes, including multiple regenerations of each Time Lord, operating in sych through time and across space, to destroy the Daleks universally, but taking Gallifrey with them.

I don't think it's possible for any Doctor prior to McGann to appear, because they all perished in time, bringing the war to an end. McGann's Doctor is the sole survivor (or at least officially the sole survivor), leaving nothing but he, the Master, a few secreted Time Lords, and probably a fair number of evacuated Gallifreyan children left in the universe, as well as Genny.

They should, slowly, begin to gather together, re-establishing some order to the cosmos, most likely running at odds with the Shadow Proclamation and the Judoon, as well as some of the upstart empires who've been working to fill the void since the Time War.

[king mob]

I don't think it's possible for any Doctor prior to McGann to appear, because they all perished in time, bringing the war to an end. .
It's already happened with Peter Davison, plus Moffat has said he'd be incredibly keen to do a proper multiple Doctors story.

If the programme makers decide to bring back Gallifrey then it'll happen & it'll probably happen in time for the programme's 50th anniversary in 2013, which would be Moffat's fourth year in charge should he stay that long.

[king mob]

From Sky News....

It may only be the summer but the store has released its predictions for the toys it thinks children will be after this Christmas.
Doctor Who fans will want this Dalek Voice Changer. It makes you sound like the metallic monsters and features a cool selection of Dalek phrases, plus an 'exterminate' sound effect.

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2008/Jul/Week2/15034362.jpg

[Stressfactor]

I don't think it's possible for any Doctor prior to McGann to appear, because they all perished in time, bringing the war to an end.

But that's not quite possible... We already know, for example, that the Third Doctor regenerated into the Fourth right before Sarah Jane's eyes. If Third and Fourth perished along with the rest then this would, theoretically, negate this happening. It has already been stated that most lesser beings do not remember the Time War and do not remember the Time Lords existing but obviously Earth still does. UNIT still has records of the Third Doctor's service and, as was stated, Sarah Jane has her memories. This would imply that, at the very least, the Doctor's own PERSONAL history still exists.

Ergo, if his history exists and everything that he did still stands then he could, at some point, loop back on that PERSONAL time line and encounter one of his past selves.

[Spike-X]

It's assumed by some fans who consider the novels canon that the Doctor saved Gallifrey, and that Gallifrey 2 was the one destroyed in the time war.


Are these the same fans who insist that the line, "I was a Dad once..." couldn't possibly mean, "I had sexual intercourse with a woman, resulting in the birth of a child"?

[Spike-X]

From Sky News....



http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2008/Jul/Week2/15034362.jpg
They are going to make a frickin' mint.

[carabas]

http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2008/Jul/Week2/15034362.jpg
"Aargh! Ze flashing knobs!!"

[Paul McEnery]

Depends on how it's done, as it is with anything.

From what I understand, Gallifrey can't be restored. The Doctor destroyed Gallifrey by causing the entire 10-million strong Dalek fleet to crash into it, destroying both. You restore Gallifrey, you restore the Daleks.

The Time Lords are a different matter. The show deals with a lot of ontological paradoxes. The Doctor can send a message to his 8th incarnation to send a message to the Time Lords to evacuate at JUST THIS MOMENT. Gallifrey empties, the Time Lords scatter, and they eventually establish a new Gallifrey-a third one, if the novels are canon.

Hey, guess what we've got! A planetary-towing technology!

[Paul McEnery]

I don't think it's possible for any Doctor prior to McGann to appear, because they all perished in time, bringing the war to an end. McGann's Doctor is the sole survivor (or at least officially the sole survivor), leaving nothing but he, the Master, a few secreted Time Lords, and probably a fair number of evacuated Gallifreyan children left in the universe, as well as Genny..

Not only is that an unnecessary assumption, it would be rather silly, and counter-factual to the Davison appearance.

But more to the point -- if the Timelords lost the Time War to the extent that they were wiped out of all existence, how come people have heard of them?

[mattx110]

If they bring Gallifrey back that would end it for me.

The planet is dead, and it needs to stay that way. Where the show needs to go, is to explore the power vacuum created by the passing of the Time Lords and the destruction of the Dalek Empire, not to mention all the other worlds that were lost in the Time Wars. There should be more Time Lords, and eventually they, being far less omnipotent then their predecessors, should establish a new base, but Gallifrey should be like Atlantis, with people arguing whether or not it every really existed.
We've seen the power vacuum. The Shadow Proclamation sucks... Gallifrey can stay away as long as it wants, but it's coming back eventually. Too many writers are thinking of ways to do it, and just one has to become Exec Producer.
It's already happened with Peter Davison, plus Moffat has said he'd be incredibly keen to do a proper multiple Doctors story.

If the programme makers decide to bring back Gallifrey then it'll happen & it'll probably happen in time for the programme's 50th anniversary in 2013, which would be Moffat's fourth year in charge should he stay that long.
I'll throw money in the pool on this happening.

[Ontir]

There's no reason to bring back Gallifrey. The Time Lords should return, not because of some "turn the world backwards" moment, but because the Doctor and the other few survivors begin to re-build what the Time Lords used to be in a new place, in a new way.

The Davidson appearance is interesting in that it's not in the actual episode, it's a sort of sideways crossover, but not really in continuity, at least thus far. The idea does make sense in that it saves them from having to explain why Colin Baker looks so bloody old, or why Tom Baker can't ever seem to show up. Let's face it, the only way that most of the "older" Doctors could ever show up is as CGI versions.

The Time Lords didn't really lose, they just sacrificed themselves to stop the Daleks. Even with the Daleks having returned, they've never come close the the worlds-destroying force they once were. The closest is this season's finalé.

The Time Lords, and the Doctor in particular, got around and some have heard of them, but in other cases like when the Doctor and Donna went to the Shadow Proclamation, the Time Lords were thought to be mythical. The reason for this may have something to do with WHEN Gallifrey existed. Was it in our past, or is it the distant future. If Gallifrey came to be beyond Earth's 20th century, that may be why the Shadow Proclamation thought them myth. There have been sightings and rumblings, but the homeworld hasn't been found. Now, because of the Time War, it can't be.

[Matt]

The reason for this may have something to do with WHEN Gallifrey existed. Was it in our past, or is it the distant future. If Gallifrey came to be beyond Earth's 20th century, that may be why the Shadow Proclamation thought them myth. There have been sightings and rumblings, but the homeworld hasn't been found. Now, because of the Time War, it can't be.

Neither and all, really.
Part of Gallifrey's defences was that it was removed from time as we know it.

[Dark_Master]

The Davidson appearance is interesting in that it's not in the actual episode, it's a sort of sideways crossover, but not really in continuity, at least thus far. The idea does make sense in that it saves them from having to explain why Colin Baker looks so bloody old, or why Tom Baker can't ever seem to show up. Let's face it, the only way that most of the "older" Doctors could ever show up is as CGI versionsactually, in time crash they gave an explanation for why Davidson looked older (something to do with the time differential, I think) so if they ever decide to do a multi-doctor story they could just find a way to use the same excuse for their aging

[Omac70]

...plus Moffat has said he'd be incredibly keen to do a proper multiple Doctors story.
I must have heard that already, but I think I'd forgotten that I had. :smile:

I'd like to see it happen. Never had a problem with it in the past, and wouldn't have a problem with it now.

But RTD might just get there first...

[king mob]

The Davidson appearance is interesting in that it's not in the actual episode, it's a sort of sideways crossover, but not really in continuity, at least thus far.

It's in the very loose 'canon' of the programme. So it's in continuity because Moffat & Davies want it to be,

The idea does make sense in that it saves them from having to explain why Colin Baker looks so bloody old, or why Tom Baker can't ever seem to show up. Let's face it, the only way that most of the "older" Doctors could ever show up is as CGI versions.

Or not. We don't know what's in store. Gallifrey will return, the groundwork has been laid as RTD has slowly reintroduced the programme's mythology to a younger audience, so it's a matter of time really.

[Ontir]

If it isn't in the actual episode I'm not counting it. If they say, "It's in." it is. Until then, no.

I don't see any support for the un-doing of the death of Gallifrey. It would be anit-climactic and damage the dramatic build of this entire series. I think it's far more likely, and dramatically far more interesting, if the Doctor finds a handful of surviving Time Lords and they begin to rebuild what Gallifrey once was. A brand new thing, not the resurrection of what was. I also can't imagine the Doctor wanting to re-create what Gallifrey was. Sure, to some extent he misses it, and the loss of a world is a staggering tragedy, but he also had a great many issues with the Time Lords and what they would and wouldn't do. Given this opportunity to re-make new Time Lords more to his liking, I think he'll take that opportunity and make the most of it.

[Ontir]

Neither and all, really.
Part of Gallifrey's defences was that it was removed from time as we know it.

I've not heard that before. Where's it from?

[king mob]

If it isn't in the actual episode I'm not counting it. If they say, "It's in." it is. Until then, no.


Davies, Moffat & Tennant have said it's part of the programme & it's a 'missing scene' from the last episode of series 3.

[Stressfactor]

I've not heard that before. Where's it from?

I thought the 9th Doctor mentioned it somewhere....

It kind of HAD to be done because otherwise someone would have been asking "Well, why can't the Doctor just go back in time to fix things? Or go back in time to visit Gallifrey in the past if he's lonely?"

With this explanation it made sure that THAT couldn't happen.

I DO remember that in one of the episodes the 9th Doctor tells Rose that, while MOST beings now no longer remember Gallifrey and the Time War there are SOME "higher beings" who were more time sensitive and those beings apparently remember BOTH time lines -- one where Gallifrey existed and was destroyed and one where it never existed.

Think of it like "Quantum Leap" -- You'll notice that Al was always able to see BOTH time lines -- the ones BEFORE Sam fixed whatever went wrong and the ones AFTER Sam made the fixes.

Or like the movie "Frequency" -- JIm Caviezel's charcter was able to remember the time line where his father died young but also accepted the changed time line where his father lived.

For me, personally, while I don't necessarily want a fully fledged, "Classic" Gallifrey returned right away I would like to see the Time Lords make a come back of some kind. It really isn't fair because the TIme Lords sacrificed everything to stop the Daleks and, as we have seen over and over again, the Daleks just keep coming back. What this has done has done is turned the Doctor's sacrifice of Gallifrey into a joke and I'm kind of surprised someone hasn't written him beating himself up about this yet.

[king mob]

The Daleks probably won't be back for a while unless the BBC have extended the licensing deal with the Terry Nation estate. Even if they have, the Daleks need a rest, they've been overused.

[Cyke]

If it isn't in the actual episode I'm not counting it. If they say, "It's in." it is. Until then, no.


From Wiki:

According to writer Steven Moffat, in an interview with Doctor Who Magazine #389, the events of Time Crash are considered canonical.

I guess all we have to do is look up the issue, esp. since he's now the showrunner.

[Ontir]

I DO remember that in one of the episodes the 9th Doctor tells Rose that, while MOST beings now no longer remember Gallifrey and the Time War there are SOME "higher beings" who were more time sensitive and those beings apparently remember BOTH time lines -- one where Gallifrey existed and was destroyed and one where it never existed.

Now that's particularly interesting! It makes sense too. The affects of the Time War would most likely undo a great deal of history, that's kind of the point, which feeds into what was said at the Shadow Proclamation. The Doctor is now, not only the last Time Lord, but the only one who ever existed... except for the Master and whoever also managed to escape, as well as Genny.

I don't want to see Gallifrey return via some Stalinist Revisionsism Timey-Wimey thing. I'd rather just see the Doctor move forward. It's far more interesting. He can do things tha the thinks are an improvement, only to learn that there was a reason the old school did it that way, and at other times, his ideas can be quite good. As the surviving/new Time Lords come together, it will also be interesting to see how long it is before they decide to collectively tell the Doctor "No!" Not to mention his reaction!

Is Time Crash where Davidson turned up? There are ways of explaining his semi-existence, while still putting all the old Doctors off limits.

[ZT4]

It's worth nothing that one of the series most acclaimed teams, Holmes and Hinchcliffe, used The Daleks and Cybermen, story wise...a grand total of once.


That said, if Moffat lumbers us with Red Dwarf villains like Other Dave again I'll knock his block off...:tongue:

[king mob]

It's worth nothing that one of the series most acclaimed teams, Holmes and Hinchcliffe, used The Daleks and Cybermen, story wise...a grand total of once.



Robert Homes hated both & they were only used to help boost Baker's first series.

[ChrisIII]

The Pertwee era also didn't use the Cybermen apart from a small cameo in CARNIVAL OF MONSTERS. Apparentally this was because Terrance Dicks and Barry Letts weren't big fans of the monsters. It's also why the Third Doctor spends the most time with the Cybermen in THE FIVE DOCTORS, to have them finally meet (Although Dicks, who wrote TFD, still didn't like them).


Also, apparentally Moffat has dropped the "Tintin" project to work on WHO. There's a qoute from a "Hollywood Insider" in the Daily Mail that has made some WHO fans rather angry:

'No one walks away from Spielberg and all that money for a show no one has heard of. I mean, what is this doctor show about? It sounds a little silly.'

[Ontir]

Which is a kind of funny quote when you consider that Spielberg held the rights to "Who" in America for a number of years!

[Paul McEnery]

The Pertwee era also didn't use the Cybermen apart from a small cameo in CARNIVAL OF MONSTERS. Apparentally this was because Terrance Dicks and Barry Letts weren't big fans of the monsters. It's also why the Third Doctor spends the most time with the Cybermen in THE FIVE DOCTORS, to have them finally meet (Although Dicks, who wrote TFD, still didn't like them).


Also, apparentally Moffat has dropped the "Tintin" project to work on WHO. There's a qoute from a "Hollywood Insider" in the Daily Mail that has made some WHO fans rather angry:

'No one walks away from Spielberg and all that money for a show no one has heard of. I mean, what is this doctor show about? It sounds a little silly.'

It's a decent enough joke. Still there's enough Who-nuchs out there who need something to bunch their panties up for.

[mattx110]

It's a decent enough joke. Still there's enough Who-nuchs out there who need something to bunch their panties up for.
I find the word "Who-nuch" hilarious. And it hurts a little. But not enough (Once I get my Sonic Screwdriver keychain, maybe).

[Ontir]

I was just watching the War Games last night, and I admit, I skipped to the end, but I'm going to go back and watch the rest. I just hadn't seen the complete version of the Doctor, Jamie and Zoe being brought to Gallifrey and the rest of what happened. It was really cool to see the rows of TARDISes, un-disguised by Chameleon Circuits, and after only hints of what the Time Lords were, to see how powerful they truly are. I don't think we've really gotten such a glimpse since then, that I can recall. I liked their robes. I'd love to see them return, as well as the more grandiose Baker era robes and headdresses.

[Stressfactor]

I think if anyone ever DID bring back Gallifrey and/or the TIme Lords in some form they would really have to have been changed.

I mean, hitting "the big, shiny, reset button" is always a cop-out so to just restore Gallifrey as it was and have none of the TIme Lords remember the TIme War would be a bit grating. But to have the TIme Lords remember the Time War would also logically assume that they would learn from their lessons. They observed and never interfered and look what happened.... Bringing them back and having them meddling around, though, might cramp the Doctor's style.

Still, if nothing else, they should at least find a way to bring Romana back -- in all of her incarnations she's at least been fun (I know, I know, there are those who didn't like Mary Tamm but I thought she hit her stride and was fun. Just like Donna she could take the Doctor down a peg or two when he needed it.)

[Deathstroke]

I watched Turn Left finally last night.

Wow that was freaking awesome.

The ending was kick ass with the Doctor questioning Donna on the identity of the girl and the realization slowly dawning on him who it was.

And then Donna remembering..."Bad Wolf"

Oh that was freaking sweet!

[king mob]

I was just watching the War Games last night,

The War Games is, I think, the last complete Troughton still to be released on DVD. Rumours are it's on the restoration teams list for a 2009 release.

[Toku King]

Man, I can't wait for the finale! I'm so psyched!
The "Turn Left" episode was ok, but I never found Donna to be very likable enough to support her own episode, but luckily Rose was back and as awesome as she's ever been.
The "Bad Wolf" thing was a holy crap moment, though I don't fully understand it. Then again, I never fully understood the whole "Bad Wolf" thing.

[Ugoff]

I watched Turn Left finally last night.

Wow that was freaking awesome.

The ending was kick ass with the Doctor questioning Donna on the identity of the girl and the realization slowly dawning on him who it was.

And then Donna remembering..."Bad Wolf"

Oh that was freaking sweet!

Awww man I missed the last 30 mins so I'm clueless as to what happened. Had to go take family pictures. The first half hour was kinda annoying although the idea of something wicked of Donna's back was interesting.

[Predator]

Question on "Turn Left", am I correct in that it was Torchwood who stopped the Sontarans? Does that mean Jack died along with the others? Reason I ask is because on Wikipedia, it says Jack was transported to the Sontaran homeworld.

[Cyke]

Question on "Turn Left", am I correct in that it was Torchwood who stopped the Sontarans? Does that mean Jack died along with the others? Reason I ask is because on Wikipedia, it says Jack was transported to the Sontaran homeworld.

Yeah, Rose pointed out that Jack was trapped on Sontar.

[Cyke]

Man, I can't wait for the finale! I'm so psyched!
The "Turn Left" episode was ok, but I never found Donna to be very likable enough to support her own episode, but luckily Rose was back and as awesome as she's ever been.
The "Bad Wolf" thing was a holy crap moment, though I don't fully understand it. Then again, I never fully understood the whole "Bad Wolf" thing.

Bad Wolf only means that Rose is somehow involved (even if she herself doesn't know it). The trick is, depending on the person seeing the phrase, Bad Wolfe could mean a warning, a return, or foreshadowing, so depending on the circumstances, Bad Wolf can be either a good or bad thing, often changing to fit the story. In S1, it meant that Rose was behind the events all along. In S2, it meant she'd be leaving unwillingly. In S3, it was her return, which the Doctor knew would be disastrous given the "unbreachable" barriers between universes.

[Ontir]

The War Games is, I think, the last complete Troughton still to be released on DVD. Rumours are it's on the restoration teams list for a 2009 release.

I'm youtubing it! :evilsmile:

It's been really interesting. You know I think the show looked really good in black and white. Better in fact, than many of the colour eps that followed the Troughton run.

"Turn Left"'s "Bad Wolf..." was fantastic. For whatever reason those were the two words that hadn't occurred to me, and when they ran into the market... WOW!

The term was meant to warn the Doctor from the beginning. What's interesting is that it COULD mean that there are other adventures that will take place out of chronology for the Doctor!

[Predator]

Yeah, Rose pointed out that Jack was trapped on Sontar.

Huh, that must've gotten cut for the SciFi Channel. With all the off-screen deaths, this ep leaves open a lot of fanfic potential.

[Ontir]

Yeah, Rose tells Donna that Gwen and Ianto died and Jack was trapped on Sontar.

Going back a bit, I concur that hitting the re-set button sucks. It's anti-climactic and it negates the bulk, if not all, of this series. Brining new Time Lords together to rebuild makes much more sense, and gives many more possibilities for stories. It would be cool to see the New Time Lords, very powerful but far from omnipotent, trying to deal with heady situations.

Of course they COULD always have the current Doctor break through to the adventure that first introduced Davros and have him grab the bomb from Tom Baker and throw it in, killing all the would-bes.

There are some possible Time Lords out there:

I think Ianto is one. He's just not very human, and it would make sense, especially as he's in the heart of Torchwood.

We know Genny is out there.

Susan Forman may still be around. I'd love to see the Doctor pick his granddaughter up, same actress, 45 years older, and have her regenerated into a new Susan.

The Rani is bound to be somewhere out there.

The Master WILL be back, I'm certain.

Romana is always a possibility.

[Toku King]

Bad Wolf only means that Rose is somehow involved (even if she herself doesn't know it). The trick is, depending on the person seeing the phrase, Bad Wolfe could mean a warning, a return, or foreshadowing, so depending on the circumstances, Bad Wolf can be either a good or bad thing, often changing to fit the story. In S1, it meant that Rose was behind the events all along. In S2, it meant she'd be leaving unwillingly. In S3, it was her return, which the Doctor knew would be disastrous given the "unbreachable" barriers between universes.

How'd they know its meaning in seasons 1 and 2?

[king mob]

I missed this article (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2008/07/11/nosplit/bvtvwho11.xml)where a couple of broadcast dates for the specials are confirmed.

“Aside from Series Five, which will have a full 13 episodes and transmit in 2010, we are making four one-hour specials. The first, which we’ve already filmed, will go out this Christmas. The next will go out the following Easter. The other specials have yet to be scheduled, although one will definitely be on at Christmas 2009.”



So Cybermen at Christmas, Daleks, McGann or The Master at Easter?

Moffat also clears up just what went on regarding TinTin.

Scriptwriter Steven Moffat has denied he "quit" a deal to work on Steven Spielberg's forthcoming Tintin trilogy so he could oversee TV's Doctor Who.

A newspaper report that he had "turned down" a two-film deal with Spielberg was "a bit misleading", Moffat said.

He had planned to finish Tintin before starting Doctor Who but was delayed by the US writers' strike, he said.

In May it was announced he would replace Russell T Davies as lead writer and executive producer on Doctor Who.

Mr Moffat told the BBC that "nothing less than Doctor Who could have torn me away" from Tintin, which he described as a "stunning project" he was "proud" to be part of.

But it was "the proper duty of every British subject to come to the aid of the Tardis", he added.

'Very patient'

Clarifying the chronology of the deal, he said he had not accepted the offer to replace Russell T Davies on Doctor Who during the three-month strike, which ended in February.

"In fact it was already in the works," Moffat said.

"The strike just meant that I was unable to finish my work on the Tintin films given my new commitments."

He said Spielberg had been "very patient and understanding about the situation, despite the problems it created".

He also said that, contrary to the report, it was Lord of the Rings director Peter Jackson who was a fan of Doctor Who, rather than Spielberg, who just "knows and admires the show".

And he added that "the figures quoted" in the paper about his salary "are also entirely speculative and wildly inaccurate".

Lead role cast

Spielberg and Jackson will each direct one film in the trilogy, which is based on Herge's famous comic book character.

It is expected they will work together on the third film.

The first movie is expected to be released at some point next year.

Mr Moffat had been adapting the tales of a young Belgian reporter and his faithful dog Snowy for the big screen.

The books, which have sold more than 200m copies around the world, are available in 50 languages.

Thomas Sangster, 18, will take the lead role. He is known for playing Liam Neeson's son in British comedy Love Actually.

And the voice of Gollum from Lord of the Rings, Andy Serkis, has signed up to play Captain Haddock.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7517423.stm

[Stressfactor]

I'm youtubing it! :evilsmile:

It's been really interesting. You know I think the show looked really good in black and white. Better in fact, than many of the colour eps that followed the Troughton run.

"War Games" is one that really depresses me. Troughton has become my favorite Doctor (bucking the trend that "the first Doctor you watch is always your favorite" because in my case my first was Tom Baker followed by Peter Davison and I STILL like Troughton best) and "The War Games" always feels like a real end of an era.

Besides that -- since the darn thing is a massive 10 parter I don't feel like having to get up every 10 minutes to tab up the next part on YouTube. Those few brave posters who dare put stuff in playlists usually get found and zapped by the BBC PDQ.

I've decided to wait for the DVD when I can watch it all in nice, big, chunks... maybe even a WEEKEND WAR GAMES MARATHON... Yeah, that sounds nice. Stock up on supplies... get a nice bottle of wine, turn the ringer off on the phone and let the answering machine pick up and bask in the last of the Great Trout.....

Still, I DO think that the Troughton years don't get enough credit for moving the franchise forward. Troughton relished bringing an openly comedic side to the character, "The Invasion" set the stage for the Pertwee format, and Wendy Padbury really did help set the stage for the more modern female companion -- she hardly ever screamed, she never twisted an ankle, she was smart, spunky, and in some cases had more on the ball than even the Doctor. She also got to save the day herself by using her brains in "The Invasion".

[king mob]

Still, I DO think that the Troughton years don't get enough credit for moving the franchise forward.

Depends who you listen to. If you listen to every actor to have played the Doctor then you're likely to hear Troughton's name as the first huge influence on their portrayal of the role, even Eccleston who never really watched the programme. It's only Tennant who was too young to have ever seen Troughton who hasn't mentioned Troughton as his immediate influence.

[blackphoenix]

War Games is on the 'Tube?? Cool.

All I seem to be buying these days are Second Doctor adventures on DVD. I love that era. I wish they'd saved more of it...when are they gonna do a complete "classic series" box set of 1-26? i know it'll be mad incomplete, but they should do it already.

[Stressfactor]

Depends who you listen to. If you listen to every actor to have played the Doctor then you're likely to hear Troughton's name as the first huge influence on their portrayal of the role, even Eccleston who never really watched the programme. It's only Tennant who was too young to have ever seen Troughton who hasn't mentioned Troughton as his immediate influence.

Mostly it's other fans. A lot of fans I know are around my age and so had the same first exposure I did -- Baker -- and they never got past it.

As for the incomplete Troughton stories... *sigh* I know "The Invasion" didn't sell well but I would adore seeing them animate more stories... Like "The Moonbase" -- it's only missing two episodes! Also, I know most of "Enemy of the World" is missing but that would be awesome animated as well. Even with audio only Troughton turned in a wonderful performance.

[Ontir]

"War Games" is one that really depresses me. Troughton has become my favorite Doctor (bucking the trend that "the first Doctor you watch is always your favorite" because in my case my first was Tom Baker followed by Peter Davison and I STILL like Troughton best) and "The War Games" always feels like a real end of an era.

Besides that -- since the darn thing is a massive 10 parter I don't feel like having to get up every 10 minutes to tab up the next part on YouTube. Those few brave posters who dare put stuff in playlists usually get found and zapped by the BBC PDQ.

I've decided to wait for the DVD when I can watch it all in nice, big, chunks... maybe even a WEEKEND WAR GAMES MARATHON... Yeah, that sounds nice. Stock up on supplies... get a nice bottle of wine, turn the ringer off on the phone and let the answering machine pick up and bask in the last of the Great Trout.....

Still, I DO think that the Troughton years don't get enough credit for moving the franchise forward. Troughton relished bringing an openly comedic side to the character, "The Invasion" set the stage for the Pertwee format, and Wendy Padbury really did help set the stage for the more modern female companion -- she hardly ever screamed, she never twisted an ankle, she was smart, spunky, and in some cases had more on the ball than even the Doctor. She also got to save the day herself by using her brains in "The Invasion".

I have to say I agree. I first saw Troughton in the Two Doctors with Colin Baker. He was the only Doctor that I'd not seen, other than stills. I began, as it happens with John Pertwee's first episode and went on from there. Having only watched the War Games and bits of other episodes before it, I loved the way it was put together. I don't know if the words "Time Lords" were said before that story but the way they are described by the Doctor and the prototypical Master is very interesting. They both fear the other Time Lords and the War Chief assumes that the Doctor's fear of them will prevent him from doing what he must, but we know the Doctor, and even at his own peril, he'll stand up for others.

Jamie is fun, but Wendy Padbury's Zoe was wonderful. She was as bright and capable as the Doctor, and the way she was able to memorize information that seemingly he could not really made her far more of an asset than the shrieking girl who stands by screaming as the guy gets the crap kicked out of him, while the gun is at her feet!

Since the Time Lords are gone, it stands to reason that their brainwashing of her might be gone as well. I'd love to see Zoe return, especially as she'd be quite a bit older, and the Doctor is far younger looking than ever.

I admit I didn't watch all of "WG" in one sitting, but rather spread across a few evenings. Just doing that brought back a certain quality of the old show as I watched it every evening as a kid.

I have to say that I found Troughton's Doctor to be somewhat irascible, but unlike Hartnell's, it seemed mainly because he didn't know what was going on, and was somewhat stunned when he found out, which is very charming. It's too bad Troughton isn't still with us to cross over with Tennant!

[Captain Jim]

“Aside from Series Five, which will have a full 13 episodes and transmit in 2010, we are making four one-hour specials. The first, which we’ve already filmed, will go out this Christmas. The next will go out the following Easter. The other specials have yet to be scheduled, although one will definitely be on at Christmas 2009.”

Dang, it never occurred to me that 2 of the 4 would be Christmas specials. :frown:

[Stressfactor]

Since the Time Lords are gone, it stands to reason that their brainwashing of her might be gone as well. I'd love to see Zoe return, especially as she'd be quite a bit older, and the Doctor is far younger looking than ever.

Wendy Padbury still looks *very* good for her age but she's been out of acting for a long time having become an agent -- and she even retired from doing that last year.

I heard an interview done with her last year and the interviewer asked her if she would be willing to do a guest shot on the new series if she were asked and she responded that she didn't think she really would as she would be "terrified" to go back in front of the cameras after all these years. She did, however, say that if it were one of the charity specials she would consider it.

Soooo.... HEY MOFFAT... How about a "Companion Crash" for the next Children in Need Special? The 10th Doctor having to go back to all his surviving companions to get pieces of... something... I dunno... make up a McGuffin. After all Carol Ann Ford, William Russell, Peter Purves, Maureen O'Brien, Jackie Lane, Anneke Wills, Frazer Hines, Deborah Watling, Wendy Padbury, Caroline John, Katy Manning, Richard Franklin, Nicholas Courtney, John Levene, Lis Sladen, Louise Jameson, Mary Tamm, Lalla Ward, John Leeson, Sarah Sutton, Janet Fielding, Mark Strickson, Nicola Bryant, Bonnie Langford, Sophie Aldred, and Daphne Ashbrooke are all still alive.

Aside from that -- have you seen "Tomb of the Cybermen" yet? There is a lovely little bit in that one from Troughton where the Second Doctor discusses family with Victoria.

[ChrisIII]

"Tomb of the Cybermen" is a fun serial. Interestingly, just about everyone in the serial with the exception of Troughton, Watling and Hines has made an appearence or two in a James Bond film, I think.

[Stressfactor]

"Tomb" has some of my favorite lines but it is marred by that hint of racism with the character of Toberman. But, aside from the lovely speech the Doctor dives Victoria you have such gems as:

Doctor: I have my own, special technique"
Kleig: And may I ask what that is?
Doctor: Keeping my eyes open and my mouth shut.

Doctor: (speaking of the Cybermats) They had a complete metal breakdown.

Doctor: Well now I know you're mad; I just wanted to make sure.

[Ontir]

I've started watching Tomb. It's interesting so far, but I have to admit having something of a bias against the Cybermen. I always thought they looked too playful (pre-RTD anyway), and there origin and weakness to gold seemed odd.

[king mob]

Mostly it's other fans. A lot of fans I know are around my age and so had the same first exposure I did -- Baker -- and they never got past it.

Most American fans wouldn't have been exposed to the huge amount of telly work Troughton did in the 70's & early 80's, nor would they have seen what few repeats of Troughton Who the BBC did broadcast in this time.

As for the incomplete Troughton stories... *sigh* I know "The Invasion" didn't sell well but I would adore seeing them animate more stories... Like "The Moonbase" -- it's only missing two episodes! Also, I know most of "Enemy of the World" is missing but that would be awesome animated as well. Even with audio only Troughton turned in a wonderful performance.

The Invasion sold badly compared to T.Baker, Davison & Pertwee discs, but it outsold the McCoy, C. Baker & Hartnell discs that came after it, plus it remains a steady seller.
The problem is the cost; BBC Enterprises are reluctant to put up the money & 2Entertain certainly can't afford it themselves, so even though loads of work was done on The Ice Warriors (character designs, off-air recordings cleaned up) it'll sit there until somebody coughs up the money.

[Stressfactor]

I've started watching Tomb. It's interesting so far, but I have to admit having something of a bias against the Cybermen. I always thought they looked too playful (pre-RTD anyway), and there origin and weakness to gold seemed odd.

The Gold weakness was tacked on later -- in the T. Baker era.... and I hated it. I always liked it when, in the early days, the Doctor kept having to come up with new ways to get rid of the Cybermen.

[Stressfactor]

The problem is the cost; BBC Enterprises are reluctant to put up the money & 2Entertain certainly can't afford it themselves, so even though loads of work was done on The Ice Warriors (character designs, off-air recordings cleaned up) it'll sit there until somebody coughs up the money.

Crappity crap crap. Don't suppose we could convince someone to start a telethon to animate "The Ice Warriors"....

[TCJohnson]

nor would they have seen what few repeats of Troughton Who the BBC did broadcast in this time.


That's not true.

The stations that played Doctor Who in the states, what they did is that they would show them as movies, almost. If it was a four part story, they showed all four parts edited together. And they would show them in order, and once they got to the latest Doctor Who story, they would start the next weekend with An Unearthly Child and start showing them all over again. So anybody who watched it regularly would have seen the Troughton episodes.

[king mob]

I finished the Brain Of Morbius DVD last night & the story is still one of the best Who stories ever & a perfect example of Tom Baker at the height of his prowess before he started going through the motions. I was impressed by how well it held up & how impressively nasty it is; it'd never be shown on a family programme on a Saturday night on BBC One today.

The extras are fine but fairly routine. There's obviously only so much archive material but more about Mary Whitehouse's reaction to this serial would have been interesting, though 2Entertain could be holding that back for The Deadly Assassin.

Meanwhile John Barrowman continues his goal to be in everything the BBC makes tonight. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-perl/whatson/prog_parse.cgi?filename=20080724/20080724_2100_4223_14885_60)
John Barrowman: The Making of Me

Thu 24 Jul, 21:00 - 22:00 60 mins

1/3. A new science series for the BBC in which famous people ask one big question: why are we the way we are?

John Barrowman challenges scientists to explain why he's gay. With the help of friends, family, psychologists and geneticists, and conquering his claustrophobia to have a brain scan, he asks whether nature or nurture determine who we are.

[king mob]

Crappity crap crap. Don't suppose we could convince someone to start a telethon to animate "The Ice Warriors"....

The plan is still to have every remaining classic Who story out on disc by 2012 in time for the 50th anniversary. It might be the case that the BBC goes 'fuck it' and chucks money at the project to use up the incomplete stories they have sitting there.

[king mob]

That's not true.

The stations that played Doctor Who in the states, what they did is that they would show them as movies, almost. If it was a four part story, they showed all four parts edited together. And they would show them in order, and once they got to the latest Doctor Who story, they would start the next weekend with An Unearthly Child and start showing them all over again. So anybody who watched it regularly would have seen the Troughton episodes.

Really? Fair enough.

Out of curiousity does anyone know how well the DVD's of old Who sell in the US?

[Stressfactor]

That's not true.

The stations that played Doctor Who in the states, what they did is that they would show them as movies, almost. If it was a four part story, they showed all four parts edited together. And they would show them in order, and once they got to the latest Doctor Who story, they would start the next weekend with An Unearthly Child and start showing them all over again. So anybody who watched it regularly would have seen the Troughton episodes.

Regrettably, not MY PBS station. They started with Baker ran through to McCoy and started over again with Baker. Whenever they were running a pledge drive they made darn sure they were either playing Baker eps or else "The Five Doctors" because they knew fans would tune in... and then maybe give them money.

I remember one year the local Doctor Who appreciation society was manning the pledge drive phones during the Doctor Who portion of the pledge drive and I swear to you ALL of them were wearing scarves and floppy hats -- even the women. One of the local PBS presenters even 'interviewed' the president of the society and the guy not only had the hat and scarf, he had also gotten ahold of a copy of the TARDIS key prop and wore it on a chain around his neck just like Baker....

[TCJohnson]

Regrettably, not MY PBS station. They started with Baker ran through to McCoy and started over again with Baker. Whenever they were running a pledge drive they made darn sure they were either playing Baker eps or else "The Five Doctors" because they knew fans would tune in... and then maybe give them money.


Really :(

Well, I lived in the New Jersey, Boston and Washington DC areas, and that is how they did them in those areas. Thought they did them like that everywhere.

[Stressfactor]

Unfortunately not all PBS stations are created equal. While they get a certain amount of money from the government the rest of their funds are made up from donations. The bigger the market or more affluent the area the more money the PBS station may be able to get and the more/more expensive programs they will be able to buy.

If the PBS station doesn't get enough money they may have to cut some programs. It's the same with NPR -- which is why you might see some NPR stations carrying some programs and other NPR stations don't -- they have to buy the programs on an annual basis and how much they buy depends on how much extra cash they get from local donations.

I was in the St. Louis market and it really wasn't a very large market -- they couldn't afford a lot of the Brit stuff back then (I was away in Graduate School near Seattle when I discovered Red Dwarf on PBS there -- the St. Louis market had NEVER carried it) and (while this could be wrong) one of my friends told me that the stations had to pay for the Doctor Who episodes in blocks so St. Louis probably figured the older stuff wasn't worth paying for. The St. Louis PBS market also gave up the "Doctor Who" license before a lot of other stations did. St. Louis lost the good Doctor in the early 1990's -- really not long after the last of the McCoy eps were aired.

Come to think of it... I imagine what happened was that St. Louis had already decided to give up the license as the last of the McCoy stuff was airing and so didn't even bother purchasing the rights to any of the earlier stuff. They simply re-broadcast what they had and waited for the license to run out.

Right now I'm in the Kansas City PBS market and they are (I never thought it possible) WORSE! They do not carry hardly ANYTHING -- not solvent enough to keep afloat I guess.

I miss the Seattle market -- those PBS-ers ROCKED! They were not only THE FIRST tv station in the USA to air the 7th seriesof Red Dwarf they turned it into a MASSIVE event with appearances and signings from Craig Charles (Lister) and Danny John Jules (Cat). They even called it "Smeg Heads in Seattle". My roommates and I wanted to get tickets but it was a pledge drive related event and the tickets were something like $200 and we were poor, struggling, Grad students.

[adamthered]

Unfortunately not all PBS stations are created equal. While they get a certain amount of money from the government the rest of their funds are made up from donations. The bigger the market or more affluent the area the more money the PBS station may be able to get and the more/more expensive programs they will be able to buy.

If the PBS station doesn't get enough money they may have to cut some programs. It's the same with NPR -- which is why you might see some NPR stations carrying some programs and other NPR stations don't -- they have to buy the programs on an annual basis and how much they buy depends on how much extra cash they get from local donations.

I was in the St. Louis market and it really wasn't a very large market -- they couldn't afford a lot of the Brit stuff back then (I was away in Graduate School near Seattle when I discovered Red Dwarf on PBS there -- the St. Louis market had NEVER carried it) and (while this could be wrong) one of my friends told me that the stations had to pay for the Doctor Who episodes in blocks so St. Louis probably figured the older stuff wasn't worth paying for. The St. Louis PBS market also gave up the "Doctor Who" license before a lot of other stations did. St. Louis lost the good Doctor in the early 1990's -- really not long after the last of the McCoy eps were aired.

Come to think of it... I imagine what happened was that St. Louis had already decided to give up the license as the last of the McCoy stuff was airing and so didn't even bother purchasing the rights to any of the earlier stuff. They simply re-broadcast what they had and waited for the license to run out.

Right now I'm in the Kansas City PBS market and they are (I never thought it possible) WORSE! They do not carry hardly ANYTHING -- not solvent enough to keep afloat I guess.

I miss the Seattle market -- those PBS-ers ROCKED! They were not only THE FIRST tv station in the USA to air the 7th seriesof Red Dwarf they turned it into a MASSIVE event with appearances and signings from Craig Charles (Lister) and Danny John Jules (Cat). They even called it "Smeg Heads in Seattle". My roommates and I wanted to get tickets but it was a pledge drive related event and the tickets were something like $200 and we were poor, struggling, Grad students.

I grew up in Iowa and we had a really great PBS station (IPTV) that played both Red Dwarf and Doctor Who together on Friday nights (along with Jack Foley Orkheimer's Star Hustler). It was called Sci-Fi Friday (not terribly original) hosted by Mike Frisbee. It was great. Spent many a Friday watching the Dwarf crew and The Doctor. (Heck, I even lost my virginity during this time block, which I don't know if that's just really cool or really sad or a combo of both).

I went home to visit about four or five years ago and to my dismay learned that Sci-Fi Fridays were no more. No more Mike Frisbee, no more Jack telling us to "keep looking up." Red Dwarf and Doctor Who were still on but now on different nights and times.

However, for a good chunk of time from the early 90s to early 00s Friday night was pretty cool on PBS in Iowa. Looks like they still play both shows too, which is great, along with New Who. Glad to know a whole new generation of geeky kids still gets to catch these.

[Ontir]

I grew up with WXXI, Channel 21 in Rochester, NY. It was an anglophile's dream come true! We got Doctor Who, Blakes 7, Tripods, the Goode Neighbours, the Goodies, Dave Allen at Large, Monty Python's Flying Circus, To the Manner Born, Yes, Minister/Prime-Minister, Butterflies, As Time Goes By, Are You Being Served?, One Foot in the Grave, Mystery, and Masterpiece Theatre, to name but a smattering.

The one show (that I knew about) that we never got was Top of the Pops! I loved UK New Wave and wish we'd had a more direct pipeline back then. My brother was on it once or twice though, so I guess that counts for something.

[Ben Morgan]

Doctor Who panel at SDCC was very fun. Got some clips for the 2008 Christmas special. Steven Moffat was hilarious as well. He was telling us about being questioned at the airport here. When someone asked why he's here he said he's going to the comics convention, the airport guy said "Is that what you are?". What kind of question is that?

[Spike-X]

Probably thought he meant 'comics' as in 'comedians'.

[Stressfactor]

Doctor Who panel at SDCC was very fun. Got some clips for the 2008 Christmas special. Steven Moffat was hilarious as well. He was telling us about being questioned at the airport here. When someone asked why he's here he said he's going to the comics convention, the airport guy said "Is that what you are?". What kind of question is that?

DOCTOR WHO PANEL?!?!?!? DETAILS PLEASE!!!!! Sorry for shouting but CBR here seems to be ignoring THIS coverage.... despite all the rampant Whovians that are on these boards.....

What did you see in the clips? Anything more than what has shown up in the trailers? Any teases or hints on the future from Moffat? Any hints about who the villains may be in the 2009 specials? Guest starts? New companion(s)?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[Stressfactor]

I grew up with WXXI, Channel 21 in Rochester, NY. It was an anglophile's dream come true! We got Doctor Who, Blakes 7, Tripods, the Goode Neighbours, the Goodies, Dave Allen at Large, Monty Python's Flying Circus, To the Manner Born, Yes, Minister/Prime-Minister, Butterflies, As Time Goes By, Are You Being Served?, One Foot in the Grave, Mystery, and Masterpiece Theatre, to name but a smattering.

The one show (that I knew about) that we never got was Top of the Pops! I loved UK New Wave and wish we'd had a more direct pipeline back then. My brother was on it once or twice though, so I guess that counts for something.


Your PBS station may have been the best EVER! All we had in St. Louis was Mystery, Keeping Up Appearances, Doctor Who[B] (until they cancelled it) and some show I don't quite remember the title of that featured police officers -- I'm wanting to say it was called [B]The Blue Line[B] -- does that sound right?

Anyway, St. Louis also screwed the pooch on [B]Doctor Who by running all the eps together like a movie -- on SUNDAY NIGHT! Seriously, they would start at like 9:00 at night, on a Sunday and I was in high school back then and had to get up early on Monday to go to band practice so I could never stay up late enough to watch the whole thing. To add insult to injury we had a crappy VCR where the timer never worked right so I couldn't even set to tape what I would miss.....

About the ONLY thing the St. Louis market did right was run the entire The Man from UNCLE -- but they only held the license for that for one year. :frown:

[edhopper]

Throwing this up the thread list in anticipation of tonight's first part of the season ending extravaganza.
I thought last weeks "Donna changes time" episode was very good and it's setting her up as a very important person, survival of all the Universewise.
Tonight, four companions and the Big Bad Daleks, looks great!

[king mob]

The one show (that I knew about) that we never got was Top of the Pops! I loved UK New Wave and wish we'd had a more direct pipeline back then. My brother was on it once or twice though, so I guess that counts for something.

There's loads of TotP on Youtube, though you'll find very little from the 60's as those programmes suffered from being wiped.

[mattx110]

DOCTOR WHO PANEL?!?!?!? DETAILS PLEASE!!!!! Sorry for shouting but CBR here seems to be ignoring THIS coverage.... despite all the rampant Whovians that are on these boards.....

What did you see in the clips? Anything more than what has shown up in the trailers? Any teases or hints on the future from Moffat? Any hints about who the villains may be in the 2009 specials? Guest starts? New companion(s)?

Inquiring minds want to know!
They're firing Tennant for hooking up with all his unwed costars.

As appeasement, they are shipping him one blonde a month for 2 years, and he gets to keep the screwdriver.

[Captain Jim]

Just saw "The Stolen Earth" (and wow!). The only thing I wasn't sure about concerns Dalek Caan (I think that's what they called it). New character, or were we supposed to remember it from somewhere else?

[mattx110]

Just saw "The Stolen Earth" (and wow!). The only thing I wasn't sure about concerns Dalek Caan (I think that's what they called it). New character, or were we supposed to remember it from somewhere else?
he was the last dalek from the two parter last season, until he broke through a time barrier and went loopy loopy lou.

[Cyke]

Just saw "The Stolen Earth" (and wow!). The only thing I wasn't sure about concerns Dalek Caan (I think that's what they called it). New character, or were we supposed to remember it from somewhere else?

Dalek Caan was a part of the Cult of Skaro, who figured prominently in the S2 finale Doomsday, and later in the S3 two parter Daleks in Manhattan/Evolution of the Daleks. He's the only one from the Cult of Skaro to have survived.

[Ontir]

There's loads of TotP on Youtube, though you'll find very little from the 60's as those programmes suffered from being wiped.

I tried to find a clip of my brother's band, but was unable to do so. I like to post a link when possible.

[Ben Morgan]

DOCTOR WHO PANEL?!?!?!? DETAILS PLEASE!!!!! Sorry for shouting but CBR here seems to be ignoring THIS coverage.... despite all the rampant Whovians that are on these boards.....

What did you see in the clips? Anything more than what has shown up in the trailers? Any teases or hints on the future from Moffat? Any hints about who the villains may be in the 2009 specials? Guest starts? New companion(s)?

Inquiring minds want to know!
Unfortunately, Moffat refused to give away any spoilers. Although I know the face of boe might be returning in the next season. Have you seen the trailer for the 2008 Christmas special yet?

[Ontir]

If the Face of Boe is coming back, then I don't think we'll be seeing too much more of Tennant. The Face told him that they'd meet again, and then no more. I think all future meetings would have to be with another Doctor.