Doctor Who *spoilers*

[ZT4]

It really is sad that some people swallow Piper's bland-as-ice acting over Tate's warm realism and struggle to cope with a crumbling reality..through very basic things like her mother and then the deportation of the family that took her own in.

[Spike-X]

RTD didnt balls it up last year. LOTTL was a masterpeice, even Moffat likes it.

He'd hardly say if he didn't, though, would he?

[Stressfactor]

Interesting spoiler speculation at this link

http://www.bebo.com/BlogView.jsp?MemberId=6572784558&BlogId=6605565205

Only issue I have with it is it seems like a partial mix of what happened in Turn Left. Would the writer of Who redo a similar type of story an episode, or 2 after a story already done?

I think I know what's going on with this actually. I saw something once where an actor involved with the new series commented that they actually film scenes from several episodes at the same time in order to save money. So, for example, they could have an office interior scene for "Partner's in Crime" on one section of the sound stage and yet have a different office interior scene from "The Poison Sky" on another section of the sound stage and be filming stuff for both right behind one another even though those stories didn't air back to back.

Since it looks like the last several episodes needed outdoor location shots I think they filmed them all at the same time so that they only had to pay for all the locations and camera crews and everything else even though the outdoor shots were going to be for different episodes and not the same one.

[Deathstroke]

I loved Silence in the Library!

[ZT4]

Two new television promos have aired...the second is...

...Wow.


It's a much clearer promo on things, less vauge shots of The Red Dalek, Daleks infiltrating the Torchwood hub, and classic Davros monolouge, with Bleach putting in a nice imitation of Terry Molloy, with some of his own voice in it too

"Welcome to my new empire Doctor"

[lonewolf23k]

Two new television promos have aired...the second is...

...Wow.


It's a much clearer promo on things, less vauge shots of The Red Dalek, Daleks infiltrating the Torchwood hub, and classic Davros monolouge, with Bleach putting in a nice imitation of Terry Molloy, with some of his own voice in it too

"Welcome to my new empire Doctor"


Are they on YouTube yet? 'Cause for those of us not living in Britain, they're impossible to see off the BBC website.

[mattx110]

Are they on YouTube yet? 'Cause for those of us not living in Britain, they're impossible to see off the BBC website.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=VnLq-3bwyOs

[Spike-X]

Ah, that joke never gets old!

[Toku King]

I'd love to see Omega show up as the next season's big villain. He was one of the few villains that has proven to be more influential, cunning, and skilled in battle than the Doctor. I mean, it took three Doctors just to handle him.

[mattx110]

Ah, that joke never gets old!
I thought "Oh, youtube is great, of course it'll be easy to find the new trailer... waht the????? ahaahahahahahaaaaaaaa"

then I went mad.

Also, this is very awesome and i've never seen it http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=h_8Kf9toISc


And umm...lonewolf, here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdG59XF8-ng

[RonnieThunderbolts]

And umm...lonewolf, here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdG59XF8-ng

Seeet Jeebus! I thought the "next time on" was intense! As for you know who's voice at the end.... CREEPED ME OUT! So familiar, yet so much more independent sounding than Sek, or the Dalek Emperor. I cannot wait.

[drwho]

Ronnie have you ever done Dr. Who characters like you have done with the super heroes?

[lonewolf23k]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdG59XF8-ng[/url]

Ah, thank you!

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Ronnie have you ever done Dr. Who characters like you have done with the super heroes?

Not yet, although I've toyed with starting with RTD's series and working backwards, by doing Tennant and Eccleston, and their companions, then counting down each Doctor, and getting to their companions after I'd completed them all as well. Some of them, K-9, Baker or Davison, McCoy, even Pertwee, are perfect for cartoon caricature. I'll likely start that project within the next year, as I'll have more free time for drawing when I'm nanny-ing full time.

[king mob]

I watched Turn Left this morning (missed it on Saturday due to a stag do in Llanelli) & it's hardly the RTD masterpiece some were suggesting. It's certainly fun but it's not as good as Midnight, plus it hinges on Tate's performance which is very dodgy at times.

There's lots of great stuff in it; Bernard Cribbins big meaty teary face, Cribbins comments about the labour camps, his suitcase with LEEDS stamped on it( a nice reference to Threads (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threads)), 60 million Americans being turned into Adipose (a lazy gag but it still raised a giggle), in fact all the alternate reality stuff was fun, but Cribbins showed that he's a cracking character actor.

The problem is the episode hinges upon Tate, and latterly Piper to prod it along. Tate was ok but her gurning got too much by the end, and Piper seems to have been playing a parody of the Rose character & god knows what she was doing with her accent. The plastic beetle was a nice touch toward Planet Of The Spiders but it was still shite.

Great cliffhanger though & the trailers are great for the next episode. I only hope these last two episodes are not as rushed as I fear they might be.

[Spike-X]

...plus it hinges on Tate's performance which is very dodgy at times.

Awfully strident in this one, isn't she?

I can see why she (was directed to) played it that way, but it still really got on my tits.

[Paul McEnery]

I watched Turn Left this morning (missed it on Saturday due to a stag do in Llanelli) & it's hardly the RTD masterpiece some were suggesting. It's certainly fun but it's not as good as Midnight, plus it hinges on Tate's performance which is very dodgy at times.

There's lots of great stuff in it; Bernard Cribbins big meaty teary face, Cribbins comments about the labour camps, his suitcase with LEEDS stamped on it( a nice reference to Threads (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threads)), 60 million Americans being turned into Adipose (a lazy gag but it still raised a giggle), in fact all the alternate reality stuff was fun, but Cribbins showed that he's a cracking character actor.

The problem is the episode hinges upon Tate, and latterly Piper to prod it along. Tate was ok but her gurning got too much by the end, and Piper seems to have been playing a parody of the Rose character & god knows what she was doing with her accent. The plastic beetle was a nice touch toward Planet Of The Spiders but it was still shite.

Great cliffhanger though & the trailers are great for the next episode. I only hope these last two episodes are not as rushed as I fear they might be.

I liked the bug better when it looked like



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ae/Mister_Mind%27s_Imago.jpg



Oh, I give up. Work it out for yourselves.

[darkhanamaru]

Awfully strident in this one, isn't she?

I can see why she (was directed to) played it that way, but it still really got on my tits.

The fact that I don't find her strident under the circumstances is making me worried :evilsmile:

[mattx110]

Meanwhile, Donna is chameleoned to the Doctor's toys (as shown in runaway bride), and Unit was with-holding pretty vital information from the Doctor. That's rather incredible, that they can keep something from him for that long.

on an unrelated note: I just got Mark Gatiss's St Anthony's Fire New Adventures book. the bookstore near me has a bunch for cheap, anyone have any favorites? They didn't have Nightshade. But did had a Gareth Roberts, but I'd rather ask here, than play favorites just because I know the name from the current TV series. Although, I am planning on getting that one probably.

And wasn't the "LEEDS" referential to the live Who album, or was that just coincidental?

[Captain Jim]

Here is the extended commentary of the trailer. Pretty informative if you need a who's who thing. And decent Who theme music playing too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZbRSxhaY1A&feature=related

Here's another:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ9ZtEvMEp0&feature=related

[Tobias March]

Was Billy Piper drugged in this ep or what? Strange sluggish tone of voice for the majority of the episode.

I can't say it was one of my favourites.

EvilRandomAsian Woman!!

[Typo Lad]

Was Billy Piper drugged in this ep or what? Strange sluggish tone of voice for the majority of the episode.

I think it was supposed to show that it was her as "bad wolf" instead of Chav-Lass.

EvilRandomAsian Woman!!

...was hot.

[Omac70]

It's certainly fun but it's not as good as Midnight, plus it hinges on Tate's performance which is very dodgy at times.
Pretty much sums up what I've written about the episode - next time I won't sweat over several thousand words when I can just copy and paste your comments instead! Well...for the times we agree... :wink:

Thought Billie was okay though - especially as she was an oasis of subtlety in a desert of vacuous expressions and exagerrated mannerisms posing as "acting". Although of course Cribbins was superb, and so was Tennant in that final scene.

Not as good as Midnight, but still pretty good stuff. Looking forward to the finale, and it is exciting to see all those faces in the trailer. I'm just hoping there's going to be some room for decent scenes for The Doctor and you-know-who amongst all of that... (rumours of "doubling up" aside, please let's not have another Doctor-lite finale...)

[king mob]

The publicity is ramping up with today's Guardian having a spoilerish picture to accompany an article about the funding of the BBC.

The picture is of several Daleks rounding people in a Cardiff, sorry, London street.

[Stressfactor]

Is it web-vailible for Yanks?

[king mob]

Not unless you subscribe to their digital download service. I'm sure someone at OG will have scanned ot and posted it by now.

[Ontir]

The publicity is ramping up with today's Guardian having a spoilerish picture to accompany an article about the funding of the BBC.

The picture is of several Daleks rounding people in a Cardiff, sorry, London street.

Cardiff... the NEW Vancouver! :tongue:

[Stressfactor]

Not unless you subscribe to their digital download service. I'm sure someone at OG will have scanned ot and posted it by now.

Dang.

I haven't ventured into the waters of OG... I'm not sure my boat is strong enough...

Eh, it's only a week or two away. I can wait.:biggrin:

[Ontir]

What's "OG?"

[Stressfactor]

The website "Outpost Gallifrey". It's semi-defunct now. It's archived in its last incarnation, the forum is still very active and the "Doctor Who News" portion of it is still active as well.

I found the old "Reviews" page on OG to be an interesting resource along with the "Doctor Who Reference Guide" website and the "A Brief History of Time Travel" website when I was just getting into the series and wanting to get a lot of back information.

[Ontir]

Merçi beaucoup.

[drwho]

Something that I did not notice before but have seen threads on it was there was a mention of one of those old time pieces belonging to Donna. It looked similar to the ones both the doctor and the master used to turn themselves back into timelords. I really do hope the what are you becoming thing is explored about donna by the end of the series. That plot is too exciting to put emphasis on it and then leave it dangling.

[Stressfactor]

Something that I did not notice before but have seen threads on it was there was a mention of one of those old time pieces belonging to Donna. It looked similar to the ones both the doctor and the master used to turn themselves back into timelords. I really do hope the what are you becoming thing is explored about donna by the end of the series. That plot is too exciting to put emphasis on it and then leave it dangling.

Yeah, there is a small fan contingent out there who are speculating that Donna is actually Romana

Of course, there is also rumors that Donna "turns bad".

It would NEVER happen but...I suppose it would be a kick in the teeth for the Doctor if Donna actually turned out to be the Rani instead but for Donna to not WANT to be the Rani, but to actually want to stay human. The Doctor could end up having to lock away the Rani's personality and have Donna live out her life as an 'ordinary human' even though it would mean the Doctor continues to carry on as the last of the Time Lords

[mattx110]

Something that I did not notice before but have seen threads on it was there was a mention of one of those old time pieces belonging to Donna. It looked similar to the ones both the doctor and the master used to turn themselves back into timelords. I really do hope the what are you becoming thing is explored about donna by the end of the series. That plot is too exciting to put emphasis on it and then leave it dangling.

Yeah, there is a small fan contingent out there who are speculating that Donna is actually Romana

Of course, there is also rumors that Donna "turns bad".

It would NEVER happen but...I suppose it would be a kick in the teeth for the Doctor if Donna actually turned out to be the Rani instead but for Donna to not WANT to be the Rani, but to actually want to stay human. The Doctor could end up having to lock away the Rani's personality and have Donna live out her life as an 'ordinary human' even though it would mean the Doctor continues to carry on as the last of the Time Lords
It's either something with Donna's father, or all those "we're not a couple" jokes will resolve with Donna being Romana. Either way, her connection to the timelords and the doctor specificaly has to come to light. It'd be ridicuous to hint that much, and have a running joke for an entire season (and a further "there's something on your back" since Pompeii) that ends on a silly "donna gives up her memory to save the doctor" thing. We've got the precedent for something like that with the resolution to Forest but Donna is obviously more important than someone who saves the Doctor a few times because she's done that and we're still waiting for the big reveal.

[Stressfactor]

It's either something with Donna's father, or all those "we're not a couple" jokes will resolve with Donna being Romana. Either way, her connection to the timelords and the doctor specificaly has to come to light. It'd be ridicuous to hint that much, and have a running joke for an entire season (and a further "there's something on your back" since Pompeii) that ends on a silly "donna gives up her memory to save the doctor" thing. We've got the precedent for something like that with the resolution to Forest but Donna is obviously more important than someone who saves the Doctor a few times because she's done that and we're still waiting for the big reveal.

Well, you have to admit, Donna as the Rani would still fix some of that. We've seen her save the Doctor's life, we've seen her become good friends with the Doctor, and we know her to be an honestly good person so how tragic would it be for her to open a fob watch and suddenly become one of the Doctor's worst enemies and the greatest Time Lord villan next to the Master? Not even the Master as Professor Yana became as close to the Doctor as Donna has. The Doctor would then be responsible for locking the Rani's personality away again and restoring "Donna" but knowing that he can't ever let anyone tell Donna the truth and that she can never travel with him again because the chances for her finding out and restoring the Rani's personality are too great.

Besides all that, the Rani DID have reddish-auburn hair AND her forceful personality might be more in line with Donna's than either of the Romana's was.

Of course the whole thing could all be one big red herring and it could turn out not to lead anyplace after all.

[Popgun]

It's either something with Donna's father, or all those "we're not a couple" jokes will resolve with Donna being Romana. Either way, her connection to the timelords and the doctor specificaly has to come to light. It'd be ridicuous to hint that much, and have a running joke for an entire season (and a further "there's something on your back" since Pompeii) that ends on a silly "donna gives up her memory to save the doctor" thing. We've got the precedent for something like that with the resolution to Forest but Donna is obviously more important than someone who saves the Doctor a few times because she's done that and we're still waiting for the big reveal.


Donna's father is a red herring - We met him, remember, back in Runaway Bride. The actor returned for this season but unfortunately died during filming, so they rewrote his part as Bernard Cribbins' character.

[Ontir]

While I don't doubt what you say about the actor who played Donna's Dad in "RB," that doesn't mean they didn't have a plan, and that it can't come forward with him gone. Wouldn't it be more tragic if her father COULD have regenerated, but didn't remember he could do it?

I know that the "what ifs" about ways we might have saved my Dad run through my mind constantly.

[mattx110]

Donna's father is a red herring - We met him, remember, back in Runaway Bride. The actor returned for this season but unfortunately died during filming, so they rewrote his part as Bernard Cribbins' character.
Oh, that's terrible. Thanks for telling me that. Well, Romana just got more likely, although half-human could still happen. Or nothing. It'd be nice if a few surprises are intact till the finale actually airs

[Paul McEnery]

Well, you have to admit, Donna as the Rani would still fix some of that. We've seen her save the Doctor's life, we've seen her become good friends with the Doctor, and we know her to be an honestly good person so how tragic would it be for her to open a fob watch and suddenly become one of the Doctor's worst enemies and the greatest Time Lord villan next to the Master? Not even the Master as Professor Yana became as close to the Doctor as Donna has. The Doctor would then be responsible for locking the Rani's personality away again and restoring "Donna" but knowing that he can't ever let anyone tell Donna the truth and that she can never travel with him again because the chances for her finding out and restoring the Rani's personality are too great.

Besides all that, the Rani DID have reddish-auburn hair AND her forceful personality might be more in line with Donna's than either of the Romana's was.

Of course the whole thing could all be one big red herring and it could turn out not to lead anyplace after all.

Or, you know, she was chock full of those hinky particles from the dawn of time...

[mattx110]

Or, you know, she was chock full of those hinky particles from the dawn of time...
Boring. Donna is specialler than that.

[Stressfactor]

The only problem I have with the theory of Donna as Romana is that those who have seen the final scene film state that the Doctor walks away in the rain... alone. And that the Doctor returns Donna to her grandfather. If Donna is Romana this would imply that either the Doctor somehow locks Romana's personality away again or Donna/Romana fails to regenerate and dies. The former just seems a little... cruel -- after all, the Doctor and Romana were good friends and the Doctor has been longing for one of his own kind again so why on Earth would he give that all up? And why on Earth would he sentance Romana to ending her life as a clueless human? And if it's the latter, well, talk about getting gypped... "Yeah, we're going to give you Romana back for... (RTD Looks at his watch) five minutes and then we're going to kill her."

So from what has been leaked about the ending I just can't see Donna ending up being Romana... not unless there is something seriously wrong with Romana -- like the Time War unhinged her mind or something so she's better off living and dying as the realtively sane Donna... and even that still seems rather cruel to fans... Once again "Yeah, you can have Romana back but she's nuttier than squirrel droppings!"

[mattx110]

The only problem I have with the theory of Donna as Romana is that those who have seen the final scene film state that the Doctor walks away in the rain... alone. And that the Doctor returns Donna to her grandfather. If Donna is Romana this would imply that either the Doctor somehow locks Romana's personality away again or Donna/Romana fails to regenerate and dies. The former just seems a little... cruel -- after all, the Doctor and Romana were good friends and the Doctor has been longing for one of his own kind again so why on Earth would he give that all up? And why on Earth would he sentance Romana to ending her life as a clueless human? And if it's the latter, well, talk about getting gypped... "Yeah, we're going to give you Romana back for... (RTD Looks at his watch) five minutes and then we're going to kill her."

So from what has been leaked about the ending I just can't see Donna ending up being Romana... not unless there is something seriously wrong with Romana -- like the Time War unhinged her mind or something so she's better off living and dying as the realtively sane Donna... and even that still seems rather cruel to fans... Once again "Yeah, you can have Romana back but she's nuttier than squirrel droppings!"
Song was willing to give up her mind and life to save the Doctor, and did. It's just, there is a reason this is bigger than that, and it has to do with Gallifrey, or something as big to make Donna that important. And aside from being a hidden lover or timelord, or keeper of some timelord secret in her mind, I don't know what it is. Which is good. Again, if anyone figures it out, I'm not reading your posts for a couple weeks

edit to add stuff There's also the fact that for Donna to regenerate, she has to die. Even if it means, as happened in Human Nature, turning into herself plus timelord, she'd be more reticent to do it than John Smith was, and he was pretty reticent. If it ends with us pretty sure she's not human, but no way to check but dying, maybe she'd be better off staying home until it's her time. Though, this line of thinking is probably overthinking it. It might take too much explanation. Whatever, I'm gonna stop thinking about it until the episode airs. Also not gonna read any more spoiler text unless it's labelled "speculatory for safety reasons" rather than "this is what happens and I just ruined the show for you. But at least we can look forward to Moffat's epsiodes in 2 years..."

[Green Goblin]

I really enjoyed Turn left after being let down by Slience in the libary and Midnight. Seeing the world without the Doctor made for a quite chilling world and I liked how they tied all the series together. Can't wait for this week's or next week I was gobsmacked by the trailors. On another note this Satuarday Garth Lloyd who plays Ianto Jones is going to be doing a book signing in Fordidden Planet in Cardiff so I might go to that.

[Ontir]

What book is he signing?

[Omac70]

[blatant plug]

If any of you splendid chaps would be interested in signing up (nothing written in blood required) to the forum linked to in my sig, we'd be delighted to have you.

We are a little quiet, but I'm trying to fix that. At an exciting time like this it might be nice to have more than four or five people talking to each other on a regular basis!

Can't promise anything more than thoughtful & considered posts from all of the current members...mostly...:wink: ...and room for all opinions...but give us a go if there's a few extra minutes in your day you can "waste" with 'Who.

...We're never going to be another OG, but the more the merrier!

[/blatant plug]

[Spike-X]

[blatant plug]

If any of you splendid chaps would be interested in signing up (nothing written in blood required) to the forum linked to in my sig, we'd be delighted to have you.

Sure, I'll have a crack.

...We're never going to be another OG...

[/blatant plug]

There's a tick in the 'plus' column.

[Omac70]

Nice one, Spike! :smile:

Ignore the tumbleweed on your way in... As I said, we're not exactly the busiest of forums, but hopefully it's all about quality rather than quantity... :wink:

[Spike-X]

Hopefully I won't do too much to drag that down, then.

[Omac70]

Nah!

Just stick around long enough and you'll see people do visit the ghost town from time to time... People do bother to reply, but not instantly.


Anyway - I don't really want to tempt fate, but tonight's episode is looking good.

[adamthered]

This time of the series is always difficult for me. I always wait until episodes 13 has aired to watch 11-13 since they usually tie together. Avoiding spoilers (well, I know pretty much everyone shows up in ep 12) is fun but man I want to read about what everyone has to say.

[Omac70]

I admire your willpower! :smile:

[lousith]

Just saw the first part of the finale and someone please tell me he doesnt regenerate into somebody else!

[DHX]

i have one thing to say:
.
.
.
.
.
.
drums.

[Popgun]

That tops Utopia as a cliffhanger, doesn't it?

[ZT4]

Kind of appropriate the final catchphrase uttered is "I'm sorry...I'm So.."

[tony ingram]

Just saw the first part of the finale and someone please tell me he doesnt regenerate into somebody else!

Since the BBC have just offered Tennant a new pay deal to stay, I doubt it...

[drwho]

Interesting clip unless its fake. spoilers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NInr8_ujajQ

Perhaps there will be two doctors running around a regenerated one and maybe the other doctor will clone the hand of David Tenant to make another one of him.

[Popgun]

Since the BBC have just offered Tennant a new pay deal to stay, I doubt it...

... And they did make a point of showing the Hand-In-A-Jar earlier in the episode...

[ZT4]

The hand hasnt eluded me..and you have the exposistion on Dalek Cann overcoming the "Time Lock", that's going to be important.

Interesting clip unless its fake. spoilers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NInr8_ujajQ

That's legit dude...

[Union Jack]

i have one thing to say:
.
.
.
.
.
.
drums.

Are you referring to the bit where Donna was sat on the stairs?

I said to my brother that they were "the drums", but he said it was just a heartbeat...

Just to say i don't know how, but i don't think the Doctor is going to regenerate...

[Popgun]

The hand hasnt eluded me..and you have the exposistion on Dalek Cann overcoming the "Time Lock", that's going to be important.



That's legit dude...

Interestingly, Caan exitedly predicted "Everlasting death for the most faithful companion". That'll be the little Tin Dog who is about to save Sarah Jane, then...

[edhopper]

The second part to the Library story aired on Friday. I don't know what to think. I'm not sure if I like the idea that the chick from ER is going to be the most important person in The Doctor's life. (and what about Rose, now that shes a prostitute on Showtime:smile: )
But the episode itself was really good. The death's were poignant, and I loved the ending with the virtual lives saved. And the suggestion of how powerful the Doctor may become was great.
And will Donna ever see her man again? Like I said, good stuff.

And all you in Britain, SHUT YOUR BLOODY GOB! :biggrin:

[Jared]

After seeing most of Eccelston's season, the library two-parter was the first whole story I watched with David Tennant. I've caught bits and pieces of other episodes prior to this, but couldn't get into them either because the plot seemed too far along to pick up, or the new Doctor just seemed too jokey for me. But I really liked this story, and Tennant's portrayal. That was an especially cool ending, though I wonder at the signifigance of suddenly being ablet to control the TARDIS door with a finger snap.

The sonic screwdriver being able to make-doors in things just seems like a really cheap plot device. Why doesn't he use that feature all the time?

[drwho]

Finally saw it but lol Sarah jane turned into a wuss. lol.

[carabas]

Are you referring to the bit where Donna was sat on the stairs?

I said to my brother that they were "the drums", but he said it was just a heartbeat...It's not 'the drums'. The drums are set to the Doctor Who theme. This was just thump... thump... thump... thump... thump... A singular heart beat.

[drwho]

I'm still going with the Romana theory. I do not feel Donna will die. Also I have seen some interesting theories on the death prediction. Someone said they thinks its K9 which would fit. Or possibly perhaps when Caan went back in time Romana turned herself human into donna and that would kind of be an everlasting death if Romana never learns she is Romana again. Of course do not know where the you are a new thing fits in here.

[dswynne]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Donna will become...the Master. I say this because I swear that the ring on Donna's right hand is the one that the Master had worn.

-D. Wynne

[mattx110]

Are you referring to the bit where Donna was sat on the stairs?

I said to my brother that they were "the drums", but he said it was just a heartbeat...

Just to say i don't know how, but i don't think the Doctor is going to regenerate...
Jones with Mr. Copper's sub-whatever webcam opened with a "dadada da".

[Captain Jim]

The second part to the Library story aired on Friday. I don't know what to think. I'm not sure if I like the idea that the chick from ER is going to be the most important person in The Doctor's life. (and what about Rose, now that shes a prostitute on Showtime:smile: )
But the episode itself was really good. The death's were poignant, and I loved the ending with the virtual lives saved. And the suggestion of how powerful the Doctor may become was great.
And will Donna ever see her man again? Like I said, good stuff.

And all you in Britain, SHUT YOUR BLOODY GOB! :biggrin:

I enjoyed it, but it was probably my least favorite Moffat episode to date. (Not that it was bad, the others were just so good.) I do feel like I need to watch it over again, though, now that I've seen how it all fits together.

[mattx110]

After seeing most of Eccelston's season, the library two-parter was the first whole story I watched with David Tennant. I've caught bits and pieces of other episodes prior to this, but couldn't get into them either because the plot seemed too far along to pick up, or the new Doctor just seemed too jokey for me. But I really liked this story, and Tennant's portrayal. That was an especially cool ending, though I wonder at the signifigance of suddenly being ablet to control the TARDIS door with a finger snap.

The sonic screwdriver being able to make-doors in things just seems like a really cheap plot device. Why doesn't he use that feature all the time?His doesn't do that. It just sends out a frequency that can unlock doors or push around particles and small things. Send a signal, disrupt a signal, remote control for TARDIS, although it probably can't do more than lock and open the doors and set coordinates. There's sonic guns and things that can do that blast a door anywhere thing (capt. Jack had one 'till it ran out of batteries, see the previous Moffat two-parter from season one for more on that).

They try to keep the Doctor from taking too much advantage of things, there's locks the sonic screwdriver can't open and things of the sort.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

His doesn't do that. It just sends out a frequency that can unlock doors or push around particles and small things. Send a signal, disrupt a signal, remote control for TARDIS, although it probably can't do more than lock and open the doors and set coordinates. There's sonic guns and things that can do that blast a door anywhere thing (capt. Jack had one 'till it ran out of batteries, see the previous Moffat two-parter from season one for more on that).

They try to keep the Doctor from taking too much advantage of things, there's locks the sonic screwdriver can't open and things of the sort.

The door/pathway making sonic device has also been called a squareness gun.

[LtMarvel]

Nice two parter. The first was so creepy compared to the second part, however. Time travel stories always lose an edge when you know one character is going to survive...

[ZT4]

Another new trailer will be airing this afternoon before Eastenders...

[IamtheRock3]

Since the BBC have just offered Tennant a new pay deal to stay, I doubt it...



Could be a TEMPORARY regeneration, then turn back somehow


Hey for you doctor Who expert

isnt one of Doctor who lives supsose to be Evil

[tony ingram]

Could be a TEMPORARY regeneration, then turn back somehow


Hey for you doctor Who expert

isnt one of Doctor who lives supsose to be Evil

Not necessarily. You're thinking of The Valeyard, who was supposed to be "a distillation of The Doctor's darker impulses" (whatever that means) from somewhere between his 12th and 13th incarnations. It was all a bit vague, but I got the impression he was a potential 13th Doctor who had somehow come into existence early. According to the novels, The Doctor somehow sacrificed his sixth incarnation earlier than necessary in order to change that future.

[Union Jack]

It's not 'the drums'. The drums are set to the Doctor Who theme. This was just thump... thump... thump... thump... thump... A singular heart beat.

I stand corrected!

[Pro]

Brilliant episode. Best one ever. Loved seeing all the modern day companions working together. Sad to see Harriet Jones' sacrifice but great way to go down.
Man, what a cliffhanger! Can't wait for next week.

[Pro]

I wonder if the Doctor in some distant point in the future will try to breach the Timewar itself and save his own race. He must have been thinking about it the instant he knew of Davros' return.

[ChrisIII]

They actually got rid of the sonic screwdriver in the 80's for a while (It was destroyed in Peter Davison's first season), but it was brought back for the 90's TV movie and then the new series.

[tony ingram]

Sad to see Harriet Jones' sacrifice but great way to go down.


Well, at least everybody knew who she was...:smile:

[Karl H]

All I can say, is freaking phenomenal.

I especially loved the bees explaination - pure gold!

[Karl H]

I wonder if the Doctor in some distant point in the future will try to breach the Timewar itself and save his own race. He must have been thinking about it the instant he knew of Davros' return.

It's an obvious direction to go in! Then again, I thought last series that Utopia was actually going to be Gallifrey. :redface:

[ZT4]

A new promo has been aired for "Journey's End", it's significantly less spoiler-riffic than the last few trailers, but it does contain a few mild things here and there

Davros intends to reduce the universe to "dust" in a fashion that could possibly be similar to "Bad Wolf" powers, which would be poetic justice, the Dalek race saved by that which nearly destroyed it

The stolen planets were obviously taken to be protected from this "cleansing" of the universe, and serve as the heart of Davros' new Dalek supremacy

Donna is seen in The TARDIS....which may need a change of the desktop theme after this finale...it's being destroyed around her

[Ontir]

All I can say, is freaking phenomenal.

I especially loved the bees explaination - pure gold!

That WAS brilliant!

This is one of those rare moments where you see the opening credits, and just the names added on tell you how big it's going to get.

I also loved that Harriet Jones WASN'T a dupe or a villain, just an amazing heroine who did what had to be done, sacrificing herself in the process. The Doctor might just have been wrong about her! She wasn't tired at all.

[Paul McEnery]

All I can say, is freaking phenomenal.

I especially loved the bees explaination - pure gold!

So long as you've never read any Douglas Adams.

[Paul McEnery]

It's an obvious direction to go in! Then again, I thought last series that Utopia was actually going to be Gallifrey. :redface:

You think it wasn't? :evilsmile:

[TCJohnson]

I don't know if it has already been posted, but this site has the latest trailer for Journey's End: http://cathoderaytube.blogspot.com/2008/06/doctor-who-journeys-end-trailer.html

You need to scroll down to see it, and it is very non spoilery.

Hard to see in the US since it is blocked on the BBC site.

[lonewolf23k]

I don't know if it has already been posted, but this site has the latest trailer for Journey's End: http://cathoderaytube.blogspot.com/2008/06/doctor-who-journeys-end-trailer.html

You need to scroll down to see it, and it is very non spoilery.

Hard to see in the US since it is blocked on the BBC site.

Fortunetly, it's already on YouTube. They're definetly keeping a lid on what's going to happen to the Doctor.

[TCJohnson]

Is it? Every time I click on a link for it on Youtube, it says that it has been taken down because it is not allowed in this country.

[Spike-X]

I got up at 5am to watch this episode.

Holy crap. I'm gonna be all a-flutter all day at work.

[Captain Jim]

I don't know if it has already been posted, but this site has the latest trailer for Journey's End: http://cathoderaytube.blogspot.com/2008/06/doctor-who-journeys-end-trailer.html

You need to scroll down to see it, and it is very non spoilery.


You still see a glimpse of the "regeneration" though.

Thanks for the link, TC.

[Captain Jim]

In case anybody doesn't know it, SciFi will not be airing Doctor Who this coming Friday (Independence Day in the US). That's one more week behind the UK. :mad:

[Paul McEnery]

Is it? Every time I click on a link for it on Youtube, it says that it has been taken down because it is not allowed in this country.

I saw reason to believe in its existence.

I did not choose to verify it.

Sometimes the heart has to overrule the scientific impulse.












Although sometimes that gets you shot by a Dalek. Hmm.

[mattx110]

I saw reason to believe in its existence.

I did not choose to verify it.

Sometimes the heart has to overrule the scientific impulse.












Although sometimes that gets you shot by a Dalek. Hmm.
It was a glancing blow. Maybe he'll just get a new shoulder, arm and one heart. Maybe half his head too...


Anyway, Mr. Moffat if you're out there, it's real...

Englander Frank Jones claims that his wife, Sadie, has been sending him text messages from the afterlife (http://www.switched.com/2008/04/02/man-believes-his-dead-wife-is-contacting-him-via-cell-phone/), leaving no return number behind. Turns out the family buried Sadie with her prized cell phone

data ghosts?

[edhopper]

In case anybody doesn't know it, SciFi will not be airing Doctor Who this coming Friday (Independence Day in the US). That's one more week behind the UK. :mad:

Screw the Bloody Brits with their "I see the Doctor before you" blather,
Shut your festering gobs, you tit! Your types really makes me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed, maloderous, perverts!!!

[Ontir]

I love the way they're handling Davros. He seems far more... is rational the right word? He's reminiscent of the Emperor in tone, and it really works.

[ZT4]

Davros

Is acting like a combination of the first and last actor to play him, with a touch of Julian Bleach's own style.

[Ontir]

One thing that occurred to me later is that we never SAW Harriet Jones die. Often that sort of thing is really significant. Maybe she IS a villain after all?!?

I can't wait to see next week's ep!

[Typo Lad]

One thing that occurred to me later is that we never SAW Harriet Jones die. Often that sort of thing is really significant. Maybe she IS a villain after all?!?

I can't wait to see next week's ep!
Ooo... maybe She is the person who took the Master's ring, and somehow it lets her regenerate.

Also, I loved the Daleks confronting her. "We.Know.Who.You.Are!"

Even Daleks find that annoying

[ZT4]

One thing that occurred to me later is that we never SAW Harriet Jones die. Often that sort of thing is really significant. Maybe she IS a villain after all?!?

I called that after

I heard the ring tone echo the sound of drums...and when could an investigative reporter develop a radio signal that can span a universe a second behind? Defiantly something sneeky going on

[Karl H]

So long as you've never read any Douglas Adams.

Touche.

But it also strikes with that whole chord that bee numbers actually are down globally at the moment.

[drwho]

I think it would actually be a realistic slap in the doctor's face for it to be shown that harriet jones really did save the day. All the doctors screwing her over in the past showed who was the bigger person and I hope that it is addressed. I do not like those rumors about her being a villain.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Harriet Jones isn't an investigative journalist, firstly. Secondly, she didn't invent it, it was made by the Mister Copper Foundation (whatever that means), she said they created it. She commissioned it, I believe, had it made to her parameters, rather than creating the methodology of the Sub-Wave she merely had expected it's exact capabilities.

[Donald M.]

Mister Copper Foundation (whatever that means)

Mr. Copper was the guy from the end of Voyage of the Damned that the Doctor left on Earth with the million pound credit card.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Mr. Copper was the guy from the end of Voyage of the Damned that the Doctor left on Earth with the million pound credit card.

Apparently he started a foundation. As an alien, maybe he had advanced knowledge, and maybe there is still more to Harriet Jones, but nevertheless, I am of the opinion that she isn't up to anything nefarious in Stolen Earth. I could certainly be wrong, I have no clue what will happen in next week's installment.

[mattx110]

Mr. Copper was the guy from the end of Voyage of the Damned that the Doctor left on Earth with the million pound credit card.For some reason, that doesn't seem like enough money to have that big of a techno-foundation. I guess Copper got some brilliant up and coming scientists and used his money right.
pretty good for someone who thought we went to war with Turkey every Christmas.

[mattx110]

If tennant leaves in the next year or two, there's almost no way they can stop him from doing a full Two Doctors story with whoever's next in line.

according to some, he's already doing two of them!

[drwho]

I kind of like the idea of there being two doctors. They could have one regenerate into a new doctor and the David Tennant doctor could still go on and be with Rose since she seems to be like a plague that never goes away and still go on his own adventures. Was chipette in a Diary of a Call Girl after her Who appearances? To think her being a prostitute with those teeth.

[thehod]

For some reason, that doesn't seem like enough money to have that big of a techno-foundation. I guess Copper got some brilliant up and coming scientists and used his money right.
pretty good for someone who thought we went to war with Turkey every Christmas.

After changing his name to Bucket and marrying Hyacinth, he probably needed something to do as a hobby.

[Ontir]

If tennant leaves in the next year or two, there's almost no way they can stop him from doing a full Two Doctors story with whoever's next in line.

according to some, he's already doing two of them!

Well, we know there's a Doctor and Martha story that's missing, as seen in Blink. Also, with Moffatt taking over, that's just the sort of timey-wimey thing he'd love to do! :tongue:

[Cyke]

For some reason, that doesn't seem like enough money to have that big of a techno-foundation. I guess Copper got some brilliant up and coming scientists and used his money right.

Maybe he invested in Big Oil.

[king mob]

It was quite fun to hear people run around at Glastonbury on Saturday to find a laptop to watch The Stolen Earth on. Anyhow I finally managed to watch it this morning on iPlayer & it's 50 minutes of the most brilliantly daft barking mad rubbish RTD has written for Who.

It's as if RTD just thought 'fuck it, who needs subtlety, I'll give them more fanwankery than they can possibly swallow'. The episode was one of those things that's hard to criticise because it was so much fun with Daleks & companions galore but some things were a bit crap.

The Shadow Proclamation was a crushing disapointment as rather than this all-powerful organisation we were expecting, we got Judoon in Ikea. Asking John Barrowman to do serious acting is always a bad idea but thankfully he didn't camp it up too much. As expected the pacing was all over the place & there was barely room for any character to breathe.

However all this doesn't detract too much from it being a big load of glorious nonsense. Davros was wonderfully realised as was the Daleks being a genuinely scary bunch of utter bastards, something that RTD should be applauded for doing in the new series as they'd become jokes in the past. The companions being brought together was huge fun, with Elizabeth Sladen's reaction to Davros being a little gem in a crowded episode.

It's the cliffhanger that sells the episode though, possibly the best in the programme's 45 year history. I hope RTD doesn't balls it up as he did last year but instead finishes his last full series on a high & if he does give us a new Doctor (Tennant has filmed the Christmas special but the rumour is that it's a Who Christmas Carol and a flashback episode) then that would be an astonishing thing in this day of spoilers being commonplace.

So basically The Stolen Earth isn't the best Who story ever or is it the greatest bit of telly ever, but it is huge fun and has helped rescue what has been a fairly poor series compared to the first three years. Roll on Saturday!

[king mob]

There's a tick in the 'plus' column.

Oh yes, that's a bloody big tick.

[king mob]

So long as you've never read any Douglas Adams.

I took it as a tribute rather than a blatent rip off. Well, I hope it's a tribute...

[Haydn C]

I took it as a tribute rather than a blatent rip off. Well, I hope it's a tribute...

That's what I thought along with Dawkins being in the episode as he was friends with Adams. Oh and the titanic at Christmas of course as well.
Didn't Adams write for the show at some point in the past?

[RonnieThunderbolts]

That's what I thought along with Dawkins being in the episode as he was friends with Adams. Oh and the titanic at Christmas of course as well.
Didn't Adams write for the show at some point in the past?

I'm not sure, but I know that Hitchhiker's Guide was originally conceived by Adams as a Doctor Who story, with Slartibartfast in the role originally intended for Who, and with the companion characters taking the lead and becoming Arthur, Ford and Trillian.

As cool as it would have been for Adams to have been running Who, I'm glad everything happened the way it did and we got the Hitchhiker's series, the worlds of humour, science fiction and prose are lucky for it!

[TCJohnson]

That's what I thought along with Dawkins being in the episode as he was friends with Adams. Oh and the titanic at Christmas of course as well.
Didn't Adams write for the show at some point in the past?

Douglas Adams was the script editor for the show 1979-1980, towards the end of Tom Baker's run.

He also wrote the Pirate Planet and he wrote The City of Death under the name David Agnew.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Douglas Adams was the script editor for the show 1979-1980, towards the end of Tom Baker's run.

He also wrote the Pirate Planet and he wrote The City of Death under the name David Agnew.

Cool! I didn't know that, thanks for the information :)

[Ontir]

I wonder if maybe that hand he's had hanging about since Jack brought it to him, which was prominently featured in the beginning of "Stolen" is going to regenerate an entire Tennant Doctor, who can maybe go off with Rose, happily ever after?

[Haydn C]

Douglas Adams was the script editor for the show 1979-1980, towards the end of Tom Baker's run.

He also wrote the Pirate Planet and he wrote The City of Death under the name David Agnew.

Thanks from me as well that is great info. I will investigate further.

[Union Jack]

I hope RTD doesn't balls it up as he did last year but instead finishes his last full series on a high & if he does give us a new Doctor (Tennant has filmed the Christmas special but the rumour is that it's a Who Christmas Carol and a flashback episode)

I hadn't heard that one.

Interesting...

Three more days to go! :biggrin:

[TCJohnson]

One other piece of trivia.

Douglas Adams wrote another Doctor who script called Shada for Tom Baker and Lalla Ward. It was filmed but the post production was never completed because of some work or budget dispute within the BBC that had nothing to do with the show. Adams took a lot of his ideas in the script and used them in Dirk Gently's Hollistic Detective Agency. I think they also eventually turned Shada into one of the Doctor Who novels.

The scene in the 5 Doctors where Tom Baker almost falls out of a boat, that was a scene shot for Shada.

[ZT4]

I think they also eventually turned Shada into one of the Doctor Who novels.

None of Douglas Adams Doctor Who serials were ever made into novels. "Shada" however was animated as an Eighth Doctor serial.

The only two people to never have their DW serials novelised were Adams and Eric Saward.

[Spike-X]

The Shadow Proclamation was a crushing disapointment...

Wasn't it?

"This is the all-powerful, oh so scary Shadow Proclamation? An old lady with red eyes in somebody's front room?"

Apart from that, though, a cracker of an episode indeed!

[ZT4]

The BBC released another small "clip" from "Journeys End"

The Daleks escorting Sarah, Donna, Mickey, and other humans into a large underground cavern

[Paul McEnery]

One other piece of trivia.

Douglas Adams wrote another Doctor who script called Shada for Tom Baker and Lalla Ward. It was filmed but the post production was never completed because of some work or budget dispute within the BBC that had nothing to do with the show. Adams took a lot of his ideas in the script and used them in Dirk Gently's Hollistic Detective Agency. I think they also eventually turned Shada into one of the Doctor Who novels.

The scene in the 5 Doctors where Tom Baker almost falls out of a boat, that was a scene shot for Shada.

It's been done as a Big Finish radio/tape with Paul McGann. Didn't know it had been animated, though.

[adamthered]

Still avoiding spoilers...

Though I did read that this weekends episodes is 65 minutes long instead of the normal 43-44! Awesome.

[Matt]

It's been done as a Big Finish radio/tape with Paul McGann. Didn't know it had been animated, though.

It was put on the BBC site a while back.

There's also a version where Tom Baker narrates the 4th Doctor version of the story, using what scenes were finished and photos from the production.

[mattx110]

Wasn't it?

"This is the all-powerful, oh so scary Shadow Proclamation? An old lady with red eyes in somebody's front room?"

Apart from that, though, a cracker of an episode indeed!
That was to show how fricken awesome and necessary the Timelords were. They were legends to the shadow proclamation lady, and she tried to draft the Doctor into leading her army, not even knowing he existed until then (And the ninth doctor was practically a constable for the SP during his season). And she fell for the "Lemme just get something in my time machine" trick. Donna didn't fall for that.

This is what intergalactic peacekeeping has been reduced to. And the Shadow Proclamation has been a rhetoric device to stall invading aliens, they've never really listened to it. It woulda been cool to see some incredible universal court system that tries entire races and planets for the crimes of their invasions... but well, that's why we have the Doctor.

I think Davies went nuts and did everything Doctor Whoy about Doctor Who, and there's no editors to stop him. Also, how many more reveals can there be? The first minute or two should take care of the cliffhanger (that's what happened last season). Then we have a war, a big giant solar system engine, insane dalek, and whatever weird happens to the Doctor when he does what timelords do. Davros, a bunch of telepaths foreseeing something odd and horrible happening to Donna. And maybe a few parallel universes collapsing into eachother (which might have something to do with the planetary engine).

Nobody ruin the next episode until I have a chance to see it.:smile: I don't wanna have to wait till Christmas to be overjoyed.

[carabas]

Still avoiding spoilers...

Though I did read that this weekends episodes is 65 minutes long instead of the normal 43-44! Awesome.This seems to be corect, and is indeed awesome. and something US tv shows can't get away with.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcone/listings/index.shtml?service_id=4223&day=saturday

[Popgun]

Dawkins is also married to Romana.

[TCJohnson]

It's been done as a Big Finish radio/tape with Paul McGann. Didn't know it had been animated, though.

Ah, ok. I remembered that revived it somehow, but my memory was fuzzy on the details.

[TCJohnson]

The only two people to never have their DW serials novelised were Adams and Eric Saward.

Well, I know that is not true about Eric Saward. I own copies of Earthshock (http://www.amazon.com/Doctor-Who-Earthshock-Target-Library/dp/0426193776/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215089099&sr=1-2) and The Visitation (http://www.amazon.com/Doctor-Who-Visitation-Target-Library/dp/0426201353/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215089211&sr=1-1).

[king mob]

I wonder if maybe that hand he's had hanging about since Jack brought it to him, which was prominently featured in the beginning of "Stolen" is going to regenerate an entire Tennant Doctor, who can maybe go off with Rose, happily ever after?

That would be simply horrible & the sort of thing that would have OG wanking themselves into a frenzy.

[king mob]

One other piece of trivia.

Douglas Adams wrote another Doctor who script called Shada for Tom Baker and Lalla Ward. It was filmed but the post production was never completed because of some work or budget dispute within the BBC that had nothing to do with the show. Adams took a lot of his ideas in the script and used them in Dirk Gently's Hollistic Detective Agency. I think they also eventually turned Shada into one of the Doctor Who novels.

The scene in the 5 Doctors where Tom Baker almost falls out of a boat, that was a scene shot for Shada.


It was an electricians strike if I remember right. It's worth also checking out Destiny Of The Daleks in which Adams livens up a fairly average Terry Nation script with lots of humour.

[king mob]

Still avoiding spoilers...

Though I did read that this weekends episodes is 65 minutes long instead of the normal 43-44! Awesome.

The story is they were pushing for 80 minutes so expect a shitload of deleted scenes when the DVD comes out in the autumn.

[king mob]

Dawkins is also married to Romana.

Lalla Ward is her name. Douglas Adams introduced her to Dawkins in the early 80's after she divorced Tom Baker.

[king mob]

In the lack of any press DVD's being sent out there's a whole load of speculation going on, especially as the title of Confidential on Saturday is 'The End Of An Era'. One rumour doing the round is that there is to be a Very Big Announcement regarding the programme on Saturday night after the final episode goes out. Of course this could well be the BBC confirming details of the already filmed Christmas special, or it could be something else entirely...

[TCJohnson]

In the lack of any press DVD's being sent out there's a whole load of speculation going on, especially as the title of Confidential on Saturday is 'The End Of An Era'. One rumour doing the round is that there is to be a Very Big Announcement regarding the programme on Saturday night after the final episode goes out. Of course this could well be the BBC confirming details of the already filmed Christmas special, or it could be something else entirely...

Well, it is known that Davies is leaving, right?

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Well, it is known that Davies is leaving, right?

Yeah, even though he is doing all the specials, it is the end of his run as show runner for the regular series.

[Matt]

Well, it is known that Davies is leaving, right?

And there was much rejoicing.

[ZT4]

Yeah, even though he is doing all the specials, it is the end of his run as show runner for the regular series.

And from what I hear, Moffat had unofficial power this season too.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

And from what I hear, Moffat had unofficial power this season too.

That is possible, I know it was him who suggested that they change the end of the Doctor's Daughter to keep Jenny alive.

[mattx110]

Lalla Ward is her name. Douglas Adams introduced her to Dawkins in the early 80's after she divorced Tom Baker.
And she takes Dawkins' press headshots for articles and things!

Talented and brilliant family they are.

They oughta do a "TimeLord babies" episode of the pre-Doctor Doctor (they don't need to use his real name), and the Master as little kiddies fighting over toys... It'd be hilarious.

[thehod]

In preperation for tomorrow nights episode I thought I'd get a few thoughts out of my head, where they've been rolling around since Saturday, and down on paper.... erm board.... you know what I mean.

Would they regenerate the tenth doctor in this way? Every other doctor has been announced to the public prior to his regeneration. This has, in effect, helped smooth the way in for the incoming actor. Although its a cracking cliffhanger, and this last week has been a bloody nightmare waiting seven days for the payoff because of it, if a new doctor is on his way, we (as an audience) haven't had the chance to grieve for him. The announcement of a new doctor prior to his regeneration allows the public to do just that, prepare themselves for change.
Now the BBC don't have to do that, but I can see there being some very, very upset seven year olds if Tennant truly has gone for good.

But then there's the whole thing about him appearing in the Christmas episode. The whole 2009 specials and the payoff to stay until after the 2010 series could still be a massive smoke screen, but then there's that pesky Christmas special.
Unless, of course, its a flashback episode. A chance to say goodbye to Doctor #10. The other option could be that the Christmas special is a multi-doctor story with 10 & 11, and maybe even a few others to boot.

There are still some things to be answered from the episode though. What's the Osterhagen Key, and what does it do? It's clearly a Macguffin of some sort.

Why the long lingering shots of the Doctors hand? Does it have something to do with his regeneration, as the fan community thinks it does? Or is that another bluff.

Who's sending Rose back? Why?

And then there's that whole thing about Donna? Is the beetle still on her back? A second heartbeat? There is clearly more about her than we, or she, knows.

The focus does seem to be the doctor and his regeneration, but there's also this prophecy about the death of his "trusted and most faithful companion." Surely thats the TARDIS?


And after all of that we've still got to deal with Davros (who is just bloody great by the way), the Daleks and putting 27 planets back where they belong. Is a hour going to be long enough?


How I've managed to go 6 days is beyond me. I'm like a kid waiting for Christmas here.

Roll on 6.40 tomorrow evening. Woe betide little Charlie if he wont go down. His mummy can look after him.

Doctor Who is far more important.

[thehod]

I'm still wanting the Medusa Cascade to send the Doctors regeneration into reverse and have Chris Eccleston standing there for an episode.

I know it won't happen, but that still doesn't stop me wanting it to happen.

[king mob]

And from what I hear, Moffat had unofficial power this season too.

Moffat's the only writer to have had a free hand under RTD's run. He's able to write scripts without Davies sticking his nose into things, so he's not been in control of the series, just his own scripts.

[king mob]

Would they regenerate the tenth doctor in this way? Every other doctor has been announced to the public prior to his regeneration.

If the BBC hadn't fucked up Eccleston leaving then we wouldn't have known about it until the end of series one, so it's something that Davies did try before.



But then there's the whole thing about him appearing in the Christmas episode. The whole 2009 specials and the payoff to stay until after the 2010 series could still be a massive smoke screen, but then there's that pesky Christmas special.
Unless, of course, its a flashback episode. A chance to say goodbye to Doctor #10. The other option could be that the Christmas special is a multi-doctor story with 10 & 11, and maybe even a few others to boot.

The Christmas special does look like it is a Christmas Carol which does leave it open for a whole lot of things. Tennant is definately in it and has been announced for the three bank holiday specials next year but Davies is a superb publicist so we'll have to wait and see what happens.

There are still some things to be answered from the episode though. What's the Osterhagen Key, and what does it do? It's clearly a Macguffin of some sort.

If it's another reset device then it'll be this year's Tinkerbell Doctor.

Why the long lingering shots of the Doctors hand? Does it have something to do with his regeneration, as the fan community thinks it does? Or is that another bluff.

Davies has said this episode will wrap up all the loose plot points from the last 4 years so probably we'll see the hand play a part.

And then there's that whole thing about Donna? Is the beetle still on her back? A second heartbeat? There is clearly more about her than we, or she, knows.

I hope it's not the rubbish Romana rumour but it had best be something major after all the foreshadowing Davies has done.

The focus does seem to be the doctor and his regeneration, but there's also this prophecy about the death of his "trusted and most faithful companion." Surely thats the TARDIS?

Well the trailers do show the Tardis getting a kicking but they'll not destroy the iconic image of the programme. The merchandising department of the BBC would have a heart attack for a start.


And after all of that we've still got to deal with Davros (who is just bloody great by the way), the Daleks and putting 27 planets back where they belong. Is a hour going to be long enough?


Probably not, which is why Davies is likely to just hit the magic reset device to get himself out of things.

[Spike-X]

Would they regenerate the tenth doctor in this way? Every other doctor has been announced to the public prior to his regeneration. This has, in effect, helped smooth the way in for the incoming actor. Although its a cracking cliffhanger, and this last week has been a bloody nightmare waiting seven days for the payoff because of it, if a new doctor is on his way, we (as an audience) haven't had the chance to grieve for him. The announcement of a new doctor prior to his regeneration allows the public to do just that, prepare themselves for change.
Now the BBC don't have to do that, but I can see there being some very, very upset seven year olds if Tennant truly has gone for good.

I think it's an indication of how much we've been burned in the past that, upon seeing the UNEXPECTED REGENERATION!!! my first thought wasn't, "I wonder what the next Doctor's going to be like", but rather, "I wonder how they're going to weasel their way out of this one?"

Of course, I do hope I'm wrong. Not that I want to see Tennant go, but now that it's started to happen, it should actually be allowed to happen, and not just "make it never happened!" like last year. Basically. I hope this is the real thing, and not just a cheap cliffhanger to boost ratings.

There are still some things to be answered from the episode though. What's the Osterhagen Key, and what does it do? It's clearly a Macguffin of some sort.

It's been pointed out that Osterhagen is an anagram (and we know how much RTD loves those) of "Earth's gone".

The focus does seem to be the doctor and his regeneration, but there's also this prophecy about the death of his "trusted and most faithful companion." Surely thats the TARDIS?

I can't see them ever getting rid of the TARDIS. It's just too iconic.

[Spike-X]

If the BBC hadn't fucked up Eccleston leaving then we wouldn't have known about it until the end of series one, so it's something that Davies did try before.

That's one reason I'm finding it hard to believe that the regeneration will actually be permanent; the BBC couldn't keep a secret regarding Doctor Who to save their lives.

Davies is likely to just hit the magic reset device to get himself out of things.

I really, really hope it doesn't happen, but after last year's collossal clusterfuck of a final episode, I'm expecting the worst.

[Alan Lynch]

Something's going to be reset, I'm in no doubt about that. I think the best we can hope for at this point is that the population of Earth finally acknowledges that aliens exist, rather than ignore the shit which happens very publicly every year. The liklihood is that Tenant's regeneration is undone somehow, because I'm with everyone else here - the BBC couldn't keep something that big quiet if the licence fee depended on it.

[thehod]

Well the trailers do show the Tardis getting a kicking but they'll not destroy the iconic image of the programme. The merchandising department of the BBC would have a heart attack for a start.

I can't see them ever getting rid of the TARDIS. It's just too iconic.

I wasn't thinking perminantly, but it'd make an interesting cliffhanger leading into the Christmas special, wouldn't it?

And its not as if the Doctor has been sans TARDIS before. Wasn't his third incarnation stranded on Earth for a while.

[king mob]

That's one reason I'm finding it hard to believe that the regeneration will actually be permanent; the BBC couldn't keep a secret regarding Doctor Who to save their lives.

True but they've went above & beyond the call of duty to keep the final episode a secret but I do have a funny feeling they'll pull a fast one with the regeneration & we'll have Tennant with us until Moffat takes over.



I really, really hope it doesn't happen, but after last year's collossal clusterfuck of a final episode, I'm expecting the worst.

I liked Last Of The Time Lords up until the bloody Gollum Doctor & then it became a horrible, horrible mess. I rewatched it the other day to give it another chance & I still dislike the thing after that point.

[king mob]

Something's going to be reset, I'm in no doubt about that. I think the best we can hope for at this point is that the population of Earth finally acknowledges that aliens exist, rather than ignore the shit which happens very publicly every year. The liklihood is that Tenant's regeneration is undone somehow, because I'm with everyone else here - the BBC couldn't keep something that big quiet if the licence fee depended on it.

I'm 98% certain we won't see a 'real' regeneration but there's a little nagging voice in my head saying that RTD could just pull off a huge stunt to let Moffat start with a completely clean slate.

[king mob]

I wasn't thinking perminantly, but it'd make an interesting cliffhanger leading into the Christmas special, wouldn't it?

Possibly but the Tardis prop was spotted on location filiming in Gloucester back in April.

And its not as if the Doctor has been sans TARDIS before. Wasn't his third incarnation stranded on Earth for a while.


Yup, mainly due to budget restrictions & the fact the Tardis set was starting to look tatty.

[Alan Lynch]

I liked Last Of The Time Lords up until the bloody Gollum Doctor & then it became a horrible, horrible mess. I rewatched it the other day to give it another chance & I still dislike the thing after that point.
You know what's amazing? I watched that episode recently with my flatmate, who only started watching the show with the start of season 4. And she adored it. Her exact words when the Doctor became Jesus were "I've got goosebumps". It was interesting to see it through a total newcomer's eyes like that.

It's still fucking stupid though.
I'm 98% certain we won't see a 'real' regeneration but there's a little nagging voice in my head saying that RTD could just pull off a huge stunt to let Moffat start with a completely clean slate.
He could, but I'd be amazed to see it. They've been good at keeping secrets so far this season, much better than in previous years, but something like this would be impossible. Wouldn't it?

Now I'm sat here thinking if there's a conspiracy. Like the BBC are circulating rumours about who might play the next Doctor, or David Tenant's huge pay increase, all the while knowing they've got Paul McGann lined up for a glorious comeback.

[ZT4]

I have to admit, seeing Catherine Tate appearing with James Nesbit on Grame Norton last night was red-herring marketing genius

[Haydn C]

Is anyone getting stupidly over excited already waiting for Saturdays episode or is it just me?
I have surprised myself with how much I am looking forward to it. I am trying to keep my enthusiasm under check though in case it turns out to be a let down, must try not to drink to much before it starts.

[Ontir]

It's not just you. My interest and excitement has been building all season, but after last week, it's at an all-time high. I also think that the title Journey's End refers to the destruction of the TARDIS, rather than the death of a companion, but who knows, I might be wrong.

[king mob]

He could, but I'd be amazed to see it. They've been good at keeping secrets so far this season, much better than in previous years, but something like this would be impossible. Wouldn't it?

It's nearly impossible (the return of Davros was known about before Christmas) but it's something that could be pulled off if everyone kept their gob shut which is why I don't think we'll see Tennant's Doctor truely regenerate.

Now I'm sat here thinking if there's a conspiracy. Like the BBC are circulating rumours about who might play the next Doctor, or David Tenant's huge pay increase, all the while knowing they've got Paul McGann lined up for a glorious comeback.

Or that rumour about Robert Carlyle that isn't going away.

[mattx110]

It's nearly impossible (the return of Davros was known about before Christmas) but it's something that could be pulled off if everyone kept their gob shut which is why I don't think we'll see Tennant's Doctor truely regenerate.


Or that rumour about Robert Carlyle that isn't going away.
Well, they said "he's in talks", which usually means he hasn't already filmed an episode and contracted to be in 4 films and a series the year after. Just a guess. If it's Carlyle who is next, this won't be a real regeneration.


And when was Romana a rumor? I thought that was just speculation based on hints (Donna acts kinda timelordy, has been told she's gonna die and is massively important to the universe, the old Romana's husband did a cameo (they mighta thought of his name when they decided to bring back Romana :wink: ).

I've never seen any "BBC official leaks cutie timelord making return" articles, but well, I don't really read British tabloids daily.

Either way, next episode should be awesome and the little we've seen of Christmas looks awesomer (to my tastes, I'm slightly more historical ficiton than world-ending, universes collapsing, jesus walking).

I just want an episode of Dr. Who where nobody says "It can't be!".


Also, VERY IMPORTANT: anyone know what hair-gel David Tennant uses? Jesus christ that stuff is amazing. Is that too OG of a thing to ask? I really wanna know.

[tricksterpup]

I have to admit, seeing Catherine Tate appearing with James Nesbit on Grame Norton last night was red-herring marketing genius


Shhh.. don't tell any one but the Doctor becomes Graham Norton..

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/arts/2007/02/23/grahamnorton460.jpg

[Paul McEnery]

It's not just you. My interest and excitement has been building all season, but after last week, it's at an all-time high. I also think that the title Journey's End refers to the destruction of the TARDIS, rather than the death of a companion, but who knows, I might be wrong.

It's also a WW1 reference -- there's a play of that name.

[themightyjbowski]

I don't wanna see David Tennant go. He's my fave Doctor
since Tom Baker! It's gonna happen sooner or later I know...
And more than likely an older one like Jon Pertwee, like in
his 50's. That lady in the episode in the library mentioned
that she knew him, but that he was older. Hint? But yeah,
they should just go thru with the regeneration and be done
with it. It would be kewel for a future episode perhaps after
next season with Christopher Eccleston & David Tennant
with current Doctor. Maybe the finale or something? Whatever
happens, if Tennant is still around I'll be happy! lol

[Spike-X]

*psst* You don't have to hit 'Enter' whenever you get to the end of the post window.

[Ontir]

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/arts/2007/02/23/grahamnorton460.jpg

"Captain Jack! Drop and give me twenty!

WAIT!

I've got to get down there first!"

I know the title is loaded, but I think, especially given Davies' desire to blow the TARDIS up in "Turn Left," and his statement in "Confidential" that there's more of that to come suggests he might actually do it. They crashed the Enterprise - TWICE - there's no reason the Doctor can't lost his ride! It also begs the question: If a Time Lord loses his TARDIS, is he still a Time Lord?

[Captain Jim]

It may mean nothing, but in light of the present discussion, I find these words from Russell Davies in the May Doctor Who Magazine very interesting (emphasis mine) ...

With filming finished for the year, one production has been attracting a fair bit of attention and speculation recently. As most of you know, there have been photos and articles in the press, and online, about the Christmas 2008 Special. And many of you must be dying for official news! But we're still holding back. Partly, that's me --I just feel strangely superstitious about describing a Christmas episode, while Series Four is still on the air. We've never been in this position before, and it just feels wrong! And of course, the events of Series Four's climax might have all sorts of repercussions at Christmas, who can say. So I'm maintaining a stubborn silence.

[lonewolf23k]

It's not just you. My interest and excitement has been building all season, but after last week, it's at an all-time high. I also think that the title Journey's End refers to the destruction of the TARDIS, rather than the death of a companion, but who knows, I might be wrong.

That makes sense to me... After all, isn't the TARDIS the Doctor's most faithful companion?

[Ontir]

We're now hours away!!! :eek:

[Haydn C]

That makes sense to me... After all, isn't the TARDIS the Doctor's most faithful companion?

It does seem as if this is where they are leading us but so often there is a last minute switch around to surprise us all.
It would be quite a step to destroy the TARDIS, it is still the original one isn't it in terms of the programmes continuity? With Gallifrey gone there is no way of replacing it unless that is the long term route they will be taking, with the return of the Time Lords.

[Haydn C]

We're now hours away!!! :eek:

Far to many long crawling hours.

[Spike-X]

Luckily, I get to sleep through most of them!

[Cleric of Hell's Brigade]

My guess is that the "regeneration" is botched some how and the 10th Doctor comes out looking.....older, somehow. Like how the woman from Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dean may have known him? After all, she said she recognized the face, but that it was younger then she remembered.

[themightyjbowski]

That makes sense to me... After all, isn't the TARDIS the Doctor's most faithful companion?
I'm interested in how a time machine is created. Is it a part of a timelord?
Can he make another one?

[Haydn C]

I'm interested in how a time machine is created. Is it a part of a timelord?
Can he make another one?

Now that sir is a great question.

I would assume that he couldn't make another one himself but I am not basing that on any particular knowlede of Who. Just that it would seem like an almight big task for one man even if he is a time lord.

There are loads of people on here with a much more indepth knowledge of the whoniverse. Can any of you help? How are, what the heck is the plural of Tradis, created?

[Wolf-Man]

What happened to the Master's TARDIS?

[ZT4]

What happened to the Master's TARDIS?

If the events of "Trial of..." are any indication, it was impounded on Gallifrey. The Master was also likely exiled to the Cheetah Planet seen in "Survival", and then just "drifted around" after that without one, finding other methods of transport.

When he was ressurected to fight in the Time War, he likely destroyed his TARDIS once he arrived at the end of the universe

[RonnieThunderbolts]

A TARDIS is a living entity, they are grown and not built. Interviews on radio and magazine articles have indicated that the small bit of coral that can be seen in Jack's office in Torchwood is actually an infant TARDIS. I know that a timelord is supposed to carve out the many rooms of a TARDIS after they grow to massive size, and there are indications that they grow to a large size, an unknown size, but don't actually exist infinitely, like a tesseract.

[mattx110]

We're now hours away!!! :eek:
about 2 hours left?

Not for me:frown:

Stupid not being in England.

[DHX]

absolute shite. thats what this episode was, absolute shite. now i'm deffinetly glad RTD is gone.

[thehod]

Its was all rather daft glorious fun which wrapped up the RTD era in a nice little bow and put it away on the shelf for safekeeping.

There are some shows which revel in changing the status quo every two minutes and there are some which return to it. I'm rather glad this one turned out to be the latter.

[ZT4]

Ha. Loved it. RTD pulls a surprising, thankfully restrained finale that met my expectations whilst thankfully not going overboard on what fans were speculating...nice "toys in the box" ending as regular as season three was.

Also loved that all fears of a major retcon were put to rest....Davies isnt this premadonna who is going to take his vision with him, he's left "breadcrumbs" throughout the series, not just this season, and anyone wanting "RoDonna/Gallifrey/Orstrahagen retcon got nothing...and that's MUCH better than throwing all the presents under the tree and ruining potential ideas for other people.

Russel will always be Doctor Who's answer to Marmite..you either love his stuff, or you learn to eat s*it and like the taste of it.

absolute shite. thats what this episode was, absolute shite. now i'm deffinetly glad RTD is gone.

You DO realize Russel isnt going anywhere right? The only person who's left right now is the producer Phil Collinson. Russel is writing the next four specials

[Pro]

Great episode.

Loved Jack's remark:"I can't tell you what i'm thinking right now ..". :p

Great goodbye for Donna but kinda sad. She was a fun companion.
Wonder who we'll get next as a companion. Also sad for the Doctor because for just a moment he wasn't the only one of his kind, sort of, kinda.

Finally, the last look at the Doctor was kinda sad. Destroyer of worlds, killer of millions, savior of the universe. Despite everything he accomplished he's carrying a huge burden and he's carrying it alone.

It's going to be a long wait for the next season ..

I'm thinking next season the doctor is going to breach the timelock and try to save his own race. Might explain the next season starting in 2010 and Gallifrey is one of the major themes that hasn't been dealt with yet in the new series. Not to mention once a journey ends .. where do you go?

[drwho]

That was pure garbage.

Can someone tell me what happens at the end the copies i have seen end at the doctor saying we had the best of times to donna. Rose is retarded. lol Freema can not act please do not put her in any more episodes.

[ZT4]

The Doctor uses the "Superman Migrane" to wipe Donna's memories and deposits her back on Earth with Wilf and her mother. He explains that if she even remembers one moment, she'll burn up and die. The Doctor returns to the TARDIS, takes off his coat (it's raining outside) and just broods about being alone again...no "What, What, What" cliffhanger, but there is still a promo for the 2008 Christmas Special featuring The Cybermen

[drwho]

Lol kind of mad that I was waiting in anticipation and the episode we got was so stupid and badly done.

[Matt]

A TARDIS is a living entity, they are grown and not built. Interviews on radio and magazine articles have indicated that the small bit of coral that can be seen in Jack's office in Torchwood is actually an infant TARDIS. I know that a timelord is supposed to carve out the many rooms of a TARDIS after they grow to massive size, and there are indications that they grow to a large size, an unknown size, but don't actually exist infinitely, like a tesseract.

That contradicts what he previously said, in a way.

TARDISes are built through the application of Block Transfer Computations, at least in part. They are 'alive' but not fully sentient as anyone knows it. The architecture of each TARDIS is different, reflecting the personality of the linked owner/pilot. The Doctor's TARDIS had/has at least three different control rooms.

The interior size of a TARDIS depends on numerous things, usually how much space the owner actually wants. No maximum interior size has ever been noted but it probably isn't infinite (since that'd take infinite energy to maintain) ... but it mind boggling large.

If a TARDISes owner croaks it, the TARDIS itself usually slowly dies since the link with the Time Lord is suddenly gone. Ownership can be transferred or taken, as the Doctor did when he stole his out of the Citadel repair bay.

[ZT4]

Lol kind of mad that I was waiting in anticipation and the episode we got was so stupid and badly done.

I thought it was great, and much quieter than what was being blown out of proportion. However, even a stern RTD fan like myself watched the last ten minutes thinking "The lads are'nt going to like this at all..."

[drwho]

I think there would have been many better directions to go then what we were given.
What I think would have been better



1. I actually think it would have been better to have the actual doctor that truly loves Rose to go with her. I also think they should have just made the copy of the doctor a pure timelord and make him the new one. This would make the character more unpredictable and leave things fresh again for the new shows.

2. What a waste of the daleks. A mess. The biggest villains in the who universe treated like play things. Meh!! There should have been glorious battle scenes. The Jadoon should have showed up.

3 The whole timelord brain frying thing that happend to donna was just dumb.


okay done complaining.

[Pro]

The interior size of a TARDIS depends on numerous things, usually how much space the owner actually wants. No maximum interior size has ever been noted but it probably isn't infinite (since that'd take infinite energy to maintain) ... but it mind boggling large.

Did we ever see any room other than the control room? Can't recall ever seeing an episode that showed more of the tardis ..

[Dark_Master]

I liked the episode but yeah, it was pretty weak in quite a few aspects


I mean, why keep on mentioning the key thingy that Martha had if they weren't going to use it?? If they wanted to just make up an excuse to have all the companions together then they should've just had Martha teleport to where the TARDIS was at the end of last episode or have her join up with Sarah Jane and the rest in the Crucible
another pretty useless thing was the Shadow Proclamation. Other than telling the Doctor that other worlds beside Earth were missing they were pretty much forgettable
and the whole Rose/Second Doctor was a bit too sappy for my taste (it was almost screaming "fanfiction!!!!" lol)

and BTW, where did Sarah Jane get the explosion pendant? her own series or a serial of the old series?

[Gorthaur]

Wait, that's what I'd been waiting for all week?

RTD certainly does seem to have a talent for building up high expectations and then failing to live up to them.

[drwho]

Also why is Mickey able to stay in that dimension and Rose isnt?

[Gary Joyce]

I liked the episode until Doctor Donna arrived.

[Gorthaur]

Also why is Mickey able to stay in that dimension and Rose isnt?It wasn't Rose who couldn't be allowed to stay in the main dimension, it was Doctor 2.0. Rose was simply expected to be his nanny.

[drwho]

It wasn't Rose who couldn't be allowed to stay in the main dimension, it was Doctor 2.0. Rose was simply expected to be his nanny.

LOL :tongue:

[carabas]

Also why is Mickey able to stay in that dimension and Rose isnt?It's not so much that she couldn't, but that she wouldn't. Her dad's alive in the other dimansion, she has a life there. Mickey does not.

[Haydn C]

Its was all rather daft glorious fun which wrapped up the RTD era in a nice little bow and put it away on the shelf for safekeeping.

There are some shows which revel in changing the status quo every two minutes and there are some which return to it. I'm rather glad this one turned out to be the latter.

I could not agree more. Daft glorious fun is a great description.

I rather enjoyed the low key ending, I thought it made a pleasant change from the usual.

I thought it was great, and much quieter than what was being blown out of proportion. However, even a stern RTD fan like myself watched the last ten minutes thinking "The lads are'nt going to like this at all..."

That is one of the reasons I enjoyed it so much.
My only problem with it is that we won't be getting any more Bernard Cribbins.

http://www.last.fm/music/Bernard+Cribbins/_/My+Resistance+Is+Low

Quality.

[drwho]

It's not so much that she couldn't, but that she wouldn't. Her dad's alive in the other dimansion, she has a life there. Mickey does not.

So Rose's dad who really isnt even her dad is more important to her than the man she spent the whole past two episodes lusting over? That logic does not compute.

[DHX]

it's a RTD script, logic doesnt come into it, the two doctors thing could of been an interesting plot point but his only reason for being there was so RTD could give rose a send off. the fact that the doctor was able to wipe out the daleks from a glorified prison cell makes no sense!

[Haydn C]

I think there would have been many better directions to go then what we were given.
What I think would have been better



1. I actually think it would have been better to have the actual doctor that truly loves Rose to go with her. I also think they should have just made the copy of the doctor a pure timelord and make him the new one. This would make the character more unpredictable and leave things fresh again for the new shows.

2. What a waste of the daleks. A mess. The biggest villains in the who universe treated like play things. Meh!! There should have been glorious battle scenes. The Jadoon should have showed up.

3 The whole timelord brain frying thing that happend to donna was just dumb.


okay done complaining.

The actual doctor as you call him can't go with Rose. That is the point. He is not human, he can never be and can never be what she wants. He is the eternal lonely wanderer. That is the whole point of the revamped show.

How is this a waste of the daleks? They were bad buggers with a totally mental plan that didn't come off. Same as usual with Who. What were you expecting? Giant space battles? This isn't Episode Three. This a BBC Sat evening show.

You don't think the whole thing with Donna was immensley tragic? After finally finding herself, after final finiding her place in the universe after finally feeling she wasn't worthless for once that she actually could make a difference and that she was worthwhile as a person, something she had never felt before, it was all taken away from her. She would never know, she could never know what she had done. That is just awful. Far worse that any dalek induced torture or death.

I should stop typeing when drunk. Probably taking arse. Best watchit again tomorrow.

[Matt]

Did we ever see any room other than the control room? Can't recall ever seeing an episode that showed more of the tardis ..

We saw lots of the rest of the TARDIS in the classic series.
In the new series, we've seen one wardrobe room but heard that other parts of the TARDIS do exist such the 'attic' ... and the Doctor has given directions which indicate the TARDIS interior is still quite huge.

[Gorthaur]

How is this a waste of the daleks? They were bad buggers with a totally mental plan that didn't come off. Same as usual with Who. What were you expecting? Giant space battles? This isn't Episode Three. This a BBC Sat evening show.As someone who had never seen a Dalek before the episode by that name in 2005, I know I'm astounded by the ability of this show to make something that looks like a giant trash can with a toilet plunger for an arm into something genuinely terrifying... and then completely waste that achievement by turning it into something that comes out en masse every season finale and is subsequently destroyed, en masse, with the press of a button.

In other words, it's a waste of the Daleks since the episodes' portrayal of them doesn't live up to what the show itself has previously established. They don't come off as threatening, and the next time they show up, they'll be even less threatening thanks to the Villain Decay (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainDecay).You don't think the whole thing with Donna was immensley tragic? After finally finding herself, after final finiding her place in the universe after finally feeling she wasn't worthless for once that she actually could make a difference and that she was worthwhile as a person, something she had never felt before, it was all taken away from her. She would never know, she could never know what she had done. That is just awful. Far worse that any dalek induced torture or death.Yeah, it was pretty horrible. I just wouldn't use the word tragic, since that to me implies some kind of emotional resonance. If Donna had burned up from all that Time Lord knowledge inside her tiny brain, that would have been tragic: a character making a heroic sacrifice that leaves the viewer touched and, perhaps, with at least a little more temporary faith in humanity. This just left me depressed and deflated.

[Haydn C]

As someone who had never seen a Dalek before the episode by that name in 2005, I know I'm astounded by the ability of this show to make something that looks like a giant trash can with a toilet plunger for an arm into something genuinely terrifying... and then completely waste that achievement by turning it into something that comes out en masse every season finale and is subsequently destroyed, en masse, with the press of a button.

In other words, it's a waste of the Daleks since the episodes' portrayal of them doesn't live up to what the show itself has previously established. They don't come off as threatening, and the next time they show up, they'll be even less threatening thanks to the Villain Decay (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainDecay).Yeah, it was pretty horrible. I just wouldn't use the word tragic, since that to me implies some kind of emotional resonance. If Donna had burned up from all that Time Lord knowledge inside her tiny brain, that would have been tragic: a character making a heroic sacrifice that leaves the viewer touched and, perhaps, with at least a little more temporary faith in humanity. This just left me depressed and deflated.

On reflection I may well agree with you on that. Especially with regards to Donna. If the Doctor had brought a dying Donna back to her familys doorstep with her having made the sacrifice to save everyone else that would have been more, I don't know can't thinkof the word but yes it would have been a whole lot worse.
I can't help but think that the Doctor took the choice away from her, she may have preffered to die knowing all she had done rather have it all wiped away and carry on living.

As I said bit mullerd right now, gonna go away and have a last night cap and then watch it again tomorrow and see how I feel.

[Gorthaur]

I can't help but think that the Doctor took the choice away from her, she may have preffered to die knowing all she had done rather have it all wiped away and carry on living.
Yes. Either that, or she should've been the one to insist that the Doctor take her memory away: that would've been a noble (pun not intended) sacrifice, and it would've allowed Donna to own her fate.

[Ontir]

As someone who had never seen a Dalek before the episode by that name in 2005, I know I'm astounded by the ability of this show to make something that looks like a giant trash can with a toilet plunger for an arm into something genuinely terrifying... and then completely waste that achievement by turning it into something that comes out en masse every season finale and is subsequently destroyed, en masse, with the press of a button.

In other words, it's a waste of the Daleks since the episodes' portrayal of them doesn't live up to what the show itself has previously established. They don't come off as threatening, and the next time they show up, they'll be even less threatening thanks to the Villain Decay (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainDecay).Yeah, it was pretty horrible. I just wouldn't use the word tragic, since that to me implies some kind of emotional resonance. If Donna had burned up from all that Time Lord knowledge inside her tiny brain, that would have been tragic: a character making a heroic sacrifice that leaves the viewer touched and, perhaps, with at least a little more temporary faith in humanity. This just left me depressed and deflated.

The thing about Daleks, is that they are the malevolent cockroaches of the universe. They NEVER go away for long, and they always reign death and chaos when they turn up. The vicious salt-shakers have been terrifying the world since 1963, and I don't see that letting up any time soon.

[TCJohnson]

So Rose's dad who really isnt even her dad is more important to her than the man she spent the whole past two episodes lusting over? That logic does not compute.

There is also her Mom and now younger brother, and she does have A Doctor.

[Ontir]

We saw lots of the rest of the TARDIS in the classic series.
In the new series, we've seen one wardrobe room but heard that other parts of the TARDIS do exist such the 'attic' ... and the Doctor has given directions which indicate the TARDIS interior is still quite huge.

In the old series we'd seen the regeneration room, although I think it had another name, the Zero Chamber or something, as well as the Cloisters, from where the bells toll, Tom Baker's Doctor took us to "the old control room" for a season (It would've been longer, but the wood warped between seasons.), and I think we saw Nyssa, Tegan, and Turlough's bedrooms as well.

I'd love to see an arc set entirely within the TARDIS, it's got to have a ghost or two.

[lonewolf23k]

[QUOTE=Gorthaur;7125742]As someone who had never seen a Dalek before the episode by that name in 2005, I know I'm astounded by the ability of this show to make something that looks like a giant trash can with a toilet plunger for an arm into something genuinely terrifying... and then completely waste that achievement by turning it into something that comes out en masse every season finale and is subsequently destroyed, en masse, with the press of a button.

In other words, it's a waste of the Daleks since the episodes' portrayal of them doesn't live up to what the show itself has previously established. They don't come off as threatening, and the next time they show up, they'll be even less threatening thanks to the Villain Decay (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainDecay).

You think that's bad? Back in the old series, the Daleks were routinely beaten through grappling, blinding and on one occasion, smashed with a baseball bat. When they were remade for the New series, they were made into utter badasses. Unfortunetly, they were boosted up so much they were made virtually undefeatable save through Deus Ex Machina means.

If anything, I'm hoping the next batch of Daleks gets made with substandard parts, if only to give the non-Daleks a slightly fairer fight against them.

[TCJohnson]

In the old series we'd seen the regeneration room, although I think it had another name, the Zero Chamber or something, as well as the Cloisters, from where the bells toll, Tom Baker's Doctor took us to "the old control room" for a season (It would've been longer, but the wood warped between seasons.), and I think we saw Nyssa, Tegan, and Turlough's bedrooms as well.

I'd love to see an arc set entirely within the TARDIS, it's got to have a ghost or two.


Also in the Invasion of TIme we saw one of the baths of the Tardis (the size of a medium sized pool), miles and miles of hallway and a few other rooms that they went through.

[TCJohnson]

You think that's bad? Back in the old series, the Daleks were routinely beaten through grappling, blinding and on one occasion, smashed with a baseball bat.


TO be fair, that baseball bat had been charged with energy by the Hand of Omega. I actually really liked that scene.

[Gorthaur]

The thing about Daleks, is that they are the malevolent cockroaches of the universe. They NEVER go away for long, and they always reign death and chaos when they turn up. The vicious salt-shakers have been terrifying the world since 1963, and I don't see that letting up any time soon.And if that's how they had been consistently portrayed (in the new series), I wouldn't have such a problem with it. However, RTD clearly wants the Daleks to be the Big Bad of his Whoniverse; that's how they've been portrayed in the previous seasons, and that's even how they were portrayed in "The Stolen Earth." And yet here they are again, defeated utterly as soon as they revealed themselves - this time, they didn't even get to show their badassery by no-selling every attack attempted against them like they did before.

RTD clearly wants to have his cake and eat it too, but sadly, he doesn't pull it off.

[Gorthaur]

You think that's bad? Back in the old series, the Daleks were routinely beaten through grappling, blinding and on one occasion, smashed with a baseball bat. When they were remade for the New series, they were made into utter badasses. Unfortunetly, they were boosted up so much they were made virtually undefeatable save through Deus Ex Machina means. Yes, it's pretty clear that the new series set out to give the Daleks a bit more legitimacy in the eyes of an audience that's gotten used to special effects spectacles. The problem is, they've undermined their own success far more quickly than would have been necessary.

Personally, I had hoped that the Doctor would bring the Shadow Proclamation with him into the fight (for one thing, it would've been more believable for them to have weapons capable of one-shotting Daleks than simple, 21st century humans), and the inevitable technobabble solution would have served to turn the tide against the Daleks rather than destroy them all in and of itself. But then, I'm not the one writing these things.

[Ontir]

Actually the line is "Eat your cake, and have it too..." You clearly CAN have your cake AND eat it, we generally do. Anyway...

The Daleks had a massive plan that was either going to work beautifully and quickly, or not at all. Davies didn't make the Daleks the "Big Bad" of the Whoniverse, Terry Nation did that in the 5th episode of the original series. Still, they've been ransacking the universe, stealing worlds for quite some time, in fact all across time, because they were at it when Pompeii was lost. When they were revealed, they still killed people all across the world, and while the Doctor got all of his people into the TARDIS in time, he didn't get any prisoners off. The Daleks destroyed most, if not all of them, and if there were any left, they went with the Crucible and the other Dalek ships.

This brings us to perhaps the most important revelation of the episode: "I name you 'Destroyer of Worlds'," said Davros. After all this time, with barely a whimper we learn the Doctor's name. It is a secret, and it's something he's not going to casually toss out in conversation. It's something that Time Lord parents would name a child, knowing what he would become, and there is power in a name. Remember the story of Rumpelstiltskin? There's also a reason that in most languages they don't ask, "What's your name?" as we do in English, but rather, "What are you called?" They don't answer "My name is..." they say "I am called..." The name of a Time Lord is probably quite revelatory, which explains why they choose monikers like "the Doctor," "the Master," or "the Rani."

[Gorthaur]

The Daleks had a massive plan that was either going to work beautifully and quickly, or not at all. Davies didn't make the Daleks the "Big Bad" of the Whoniverse, Terry Nation did that in the 5th episode of the original seriesLet me quote myself:
However, RTD clearly wants the Daleks to be the Big Bad of his Whoniverse; that's how they've been portrayed in the previous seasons, and that's even how they were portrayed in "The Stolen Earth."

[mattx110]

I liked the episode but yeah, it was pretty weak in quite a few aspects


I mean, why keep on mentioning the key thingy that Martha had if they weren't going to use it?? If they wanted to just make up an excuse to have all the companions together then they should've just had Martha teleport to where the TARDIS was at the end of last episode or have her join up with Sarah Jane and the rest in the Crucible
another pretty useless thing was the Shadow Proclamation. Other than telling the Doctor that other worlds beside Earth were missing they were pretty much forgettable
and the whole Rose/Second Doctor was a bit too sappy for my taste (it was almost screaming "fanfiction!!!!" lol)

and BTW, where did Sarah Jane get the explosion pendant? her own series or a serial of the old series?
The key was for the moment where the choice was either blow up the crucible, or blow up the earth. That's what the Doctor's legacy was. A bunch of people with big bombs. The Shadow Proclamation are crap. They have a bunch of laws and agreements, but none of the Timelord toys. The necklace might be one of her unseen adventures before Luke.

[mattx110]

Actually the line is "Eat your cake, and have it too..." You clearly CAN have your cake AND eat it, we generally do. Anyway...

The Daleks had a massive plan that was either going to work beautifully and quickly, or not at all. Davies didn't make the Daleks the "Big Bad" of the Whoniverse, Terry Nation did that in the 5th episode of the original series. Still, they've been ransacking the universe, stealing worlds for quite some time, in fact all across time, because they were at it when Pompeii was lost. When they were revealed, they still killed people all across the world, and while the Doctor got all of his people into the TARDIS in time, he didn't get any prisoners off. The Daleks destroyed most, if not all of them, and if there were any left, they went with the Crucible and the other Dalek ships.

This brings us to perhaps the most important revelation of the episode: "I name you 'Destroyer of Worlds'," said Davros. After all this time, with barely a whimper we learn the Doctor's name. It is a secret, and it's something he's not going to casually toss out in conversation. It's something that Time Lord parents would name a child, knowing what he would become, and there is power in a name. Remember the story of Rumpelstiltskin? There's also a reason that in most languages they don't ask, "What's your name?" as we do in English, but rather, "What are you called?" They don't answer "My name is..." they say "I am called..." The name of a Time Lord is probably quite revelatory, which explains why they choose monikers like "the Doctor," "the Master," or "the Rani."
That didn't seem as much a name as an insult. I thought he was just giving that name, not saying "i checked your birth certificate Mr. of Worlds.

[Matt]

Yes, it wasn't his actual name by any means; just an insult or given away title like 'The Oncoming Storm', 'Snail' or whatever.

[mattx110]

Yes, it wasn't his actual name by any means; just an insult or given away title like 'The Oncoming Storm', 'Snail' or whatever.
I wish I did something badass enough to be nicknamed "The Oncoming Storm".

[lonewolf23k]

That didn't seem as much a name as an insult. I thought he was just giving that name, not saying "i checked your birth certificate Mr. of Worlds.

Just like the Dalek Emperor called him "The Great Exterminator," really.

[Matt]

One thing that does bug me a bit about the news series is that the Doctor is ... well, an idiot. Compare it to all the previous Doctors, if you like...

The 1st often made mistakes but you could still see he was a crafty bastard.
The 2nd was a behind the scenes player, often played the fool but manoeuvred people to where they needed to be.
The 4th was eccentric and often made simple mistakes but those were due to his own eccentricity, he was still pretty clever.
The 7th was almost certainly the smartest of the lot, laying down complex plans and traps up to years in advance of the actual event.
etc etc etc

Meanwhile, the 9th and 10th Doctors are often ... idiots. From the 9th not being able to spot the Millennium Wheel in 'Rose', thinking himself trapped in 'The Girl in the Fireplace' and so on. He's a thousand years old and still often acts like a hyperactive teenager. I want the Doctor to be brilliant again and technobabble just doesn't cut it.

[Ontir]

That didn't seem as much a name as an insult. I thought he was just giving that name, not saying "i checked your birth certificate Mr. of Worlds.

I think there's more to it than that. His words were very specific, "I name you..." I don't think that accidental, and it DOES connect with Rose's "It's a secret..." as well as the Doctor's reticence to tell anyone. It also ties into the Time War. That's precisely what he did. Gallifrey, Skaro, the home of the Nestene Consciousness, and that is essentially what his alt. version did, revealing the soul of the Doctor. That's who and what he is.

[Matt]

I think there's more to it than that. His words were very specific, "I name you..." I don't think that accidental, and it DOES connect with Rose's "It's a secret..." as well as the Doctor's reticence to tell anyone. It also ties into the Time War. That's precisely what he did. Gallifrey, Skaro, the home of the Nestene Consciousness, and that is essentially what his alt. version did, revealing the soul of the Doctor. That's who and what he is.

I name you ... wrong.

Therefore your real name is now 'wrong'.

No. It doesn't work that way at all. We know, from Romana and Drax if nowhere else, how the Time Lord naming convention works already.

[Typo Lad]

Just finished it. I dunno, I liked it for the most part. Donna' character arc ended nicely, and it was good not seeing a massive reset button.

I think Donn'a grandfather's parting words, as well as Sarah Jane's, should stay with him. He's not as alone as he thinks he is. He's forever the last of the Time Lords, yes, but he's also got people out there who care about him, and that should start to care for something.

Although frankly, my favorite scene was the fanwankery shoutout moment with Gwen. Dunno why, just seemed like a nice touch.

[carabas]

In other words, it's a waste of the Daleks since the episodes' portrayal of them doesn't live up to what the show itself has previously established. They don't come off as threatening, and the next time they show up, they'll be even less threatening thanks to the Villain Decay (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainDecay).
How exactly does a working plot to erradicate the entire universe in one fell swoop that could only averted by a deus ex machina (well, deus ex hand in this case) make the Daleks any less threathening?

Similarly, in their defeat in series 1, how does not being able to deal with Rose suddenly gaining Dark Phoenix powers to rewrite reality without limits make the Daleks look bad?

This was a most excellentfinale not just to the series but to Davis' reign as well, with all or most ongoing and dangling plots neatly dealt with.
Best bit: the evicting from continuity of McGann's Doctor being half human.

[Ontir]

I name you ... wrong.

Therefore your real name is now 'wrong'.

No. It doesn't work that way at all. We know, from Romana and Drax if nowhere else, how the Time Lord naming convention works already.

We know what their names are in Gallifreyan, what that translates as remains to be seen. Everything I cited makes sense structurally.

[Matt]

No, it does not make sense.
You make a huge leap without any evidence at all to support it.

As said, 'Destroyer of worlds' is exactly the same as 'the oncoming storm', 'snail' or any other title/nickname has been thrown his way.

[Gorthaur]

How exactly does a working plot to erradicate the entire universe in one fell swoop that could only averted by a deus ex machina (well, deus ex hand in this case) make the Daleks any less threathening?
If you don't see how the entire empire, nay, species being annihilated literally by the flick of a switch makes them less threatening, then I really don't think I can help you understand it.
Similarly, in their defeat in series 1, how does not being able to deal with Rose suddenly gaining Dark Phoenix powers to rewrite reality without limits make the Daleks look bad?
Because - and this one is even worse - it means that as long as there is a TARDIS available for some random human to look into, the Daleks are absolutely no threat whatsoever, in any way, shape or form.

[Gorthaur]

We know what their names are in Gallifreyan, what that translates as remains to be seen. Everything I cited makes sense structurally.
Must suck for the less extraordinary Gallifreyans, then, who at some point in their early childhood realize for the first time that their name means "High School Dropout" or "Crackhead McJunkie."

[Matt]

Must suck for the less extraordinary Gallifreyans, then, who at some point in their early childhood realize for the first time that their name means "High School Dropout" or "Crackhead McJunkie."

There's no evidence at all for Gallifreyan/Time Lord names being translatable into any sort of Earth phrase.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

We know what their names are in Gallifreyan, what that translates as remains to be seen. Everything I cited makes sense structurally.

I don't think anything you have said supports it being the Doctor's birth name, or true name. There is no reason to believe that Davros had access to that information, it wasn't even hinted at. As others have said there is a huge leap to a conclusion that has no real support given. You supported quite well that the title "Destroyer of Worlds" has something to say about the Doctor's soul, I agree, it showed what he was capable of, but that does not support that this title was his real name.

[Pro]

In other words, it's a waste of the Daleks since the episodes' portrayal of them doesn't live up to what the show itself has previously established. They don't come off as threatening, and the next time they show up, they'll be even less threatening thanks to the Villain Decay.

Seemed to me the daleks were never any less threatening, returning Davros from the timewar, plucking planets from their orbit, building a deathstar to destroy all of reality, destroying earth's cities and bringing the planet's entire defenses down to the point where the only "solution" earth saw was blowing up the whole damn planet with the Haagen Dazs key (or whatever it was called :p).
Just because they got defeated by a threat to their plans that deliberately wasn't revealed by Dalek Caan doesn't make them any less threatening. They were essentially defeated by one of their own kind.

[carabas]

it means that as long as there is a TARDIS available for some random human to look into, the Daleks are absolutely no threat whatsoever, in any way, shape or form.This is not Dalek-specific. As long as there is a Tardis available for some random human to look into, any and all threats are insignificant.

[Pro]

double post

[rick]

It really was a well done, but crowded episode.

The non-regeneration, regeneration was very well done cliffhanger, and my only question is does this mean that 10th is also the 11th?

All of the companions managed to get at least one good bit in each, although I got a nice little thrill out of the brief conversation between Davros and Sarah Jane. The near destruction of the TARDIS was actually surprisingly scary and I found myself actually being worried that they would murder the Doctors vessel.

Also, I thought that the Doctor Donna was just an amazingly fun character and I am so going to miss her. But at the same time I think that her story hit a good spot and had a very nice, bitter ending.

I’m not so sure what I think of Rose and the other Doctor, but it was a fanboys dream moment and I can only hope that somewhere they are building a brand new TARDIS to poke around their universe.


Still, just about every single loose end from the past 3 years got tied up and Rose and the Doctor even had a happy ending. So now the Doctor is traveling with a clean slate and ready for whatever comes along next.

Yet another great season comes to an end, and now comes the wait until Christmas.

[Typo Lad]

There's still one lose end, mind.

Who has The master's Ring?

Are there more? That should be it.

[Paul McEnery]

it was a fanboys dream moment.

Wasn't it all?

All the dots were there to be joined, but were they?

All the companions were there, for the sake of ramming home some bollocky point about loneliness, but what is it any of them actually achieved, in the end. Sweet FA except the fanboy's dream moment.

Also, call me a very, very bad man, but what exactly is the difference between killing some Daleks because they're going to kill some people, and killing all the Daleks because they're going to kill, um, reality.

Also, what's with the guilt trip -- you turn people into weapons who die for you! Bollocks. Also also, what's the difference between the Doctor killing all the Daleks and, oh say, Rose doing in in Season 1? Or throwing them all into Hell, like Rose and the Doctor did in Season 2? If we'd had that conversation on the beach, and Doctor Prime walking away with horrifically mixed feelings, that might have been worth it.

Can we have some grown up ethics here, please? Genocidal beasties trying to destroy your world, you do what it takes to stop them. Send the Sycorax back out into the universe, they'll only screw the next planet over. The Sontarans are gassing everyone on Earth -- blow them up, please! And some humans get killed during the fight back -- well, yeah, it's going to happen. So? The world is full of difficult choices.

Also, what the hell is it with this Donna nonsense? Thing 1 -- if Donna can't cope with "timelord consciousness" in a human body, how is Derivative Doctor supposed to cope? And if she really can't -- well, we're back at the end of Season 1 again. So the mad Dalek says someone dies -- he's not around for this bit, is he? A bit of guts and fighting -- "Screw you, mad Dalek, she's going to live!" -- might have been a little bit better than ten minutes of moping.

Oh, but then we couldn't have harped on about the loneliness again. Yaw-aw-awn.

So just like last year, then: great set up blown to buggery because instead of hitting the storylogic beats it hit completely unearned, unfelt, and meaningless emo beats.

Mind, I know it's all part of the bigger picture, and he's off to rescue the time lords now, and the Master's wife will resurrect the Master, and the Doctor's Daughter will come back into play, and maybe we'll even get one extra time lord thrown in for good measure, like Susan -- still out there dangling -- and maybe he'll even bring Donna back for that, because by god there's a Pandora's Box waiting to be opened...

... and please God let there be time lords back in the universe again so we can stop with all the I'm so wonewy crap.

[Crowley]

The non-regeneration, regeneration was very well done cliffhanger, and my only question is does this mean that 10th is also the 11th? no because it was just healing him up not full regeneration... that's my fanwanky explanation (though I thought the same thing)

Also, what the hell is it with this Donna nonsense? Thing 1 -- if Donna can't cope with "timelord consciousness" in a human body, how is Derivative Doctor supposed to cope?
yeah I raised the same point on another forum... and why was 10.5 so grossed out by being human if the Doctor is himself half human?

[Gorthaur]

There's no evidence at all for Gallifreyan/Time Lord names being translatable into any sort of Earth phrase.
...Yes, I was agreeing with you in a humorous fashion.

[Gorthaur]

This is not Dalek-specific. As long as there is a Tardis available for some random human to look into, any and all threats are insignificant.Indeed! And that's bad writing!

[Pro]

Thing 1 -- if Donna can't cope with "timelord consciousness" in a human body, how is Derivative Doctor supposed to cope?

Good point. It was the thoughts that were burning out Donna's brain whereas the second Doctor's mind was still timelord. The one heart wasnt the problem that caused Donna to burn out, the human brain was. When Donna said she had Doctor's mind I don't think she had a timelord brain so much as she had all his thoughts and her brain couldn't cope. Kinda like running a current through a circuit not suited for the high voltage. The second Doctor was created from timelord cells using Donna as template, whereas Donna is made up of human cells using timelord as template for her change. So Donna's synapses were still human cells, wheras those of the second Doctor were timelord synapses. Donna's human synapses were overloading with over 900 years of information. Big deal. On the other hand the second doctor only got about 35-40 years of human information jammed into his timelord synapses. Not that big a deal.

Mind you, just a theory.

I wonder at which point Rose starts realising she's not with the doctor but with donna doctor: "OY Rose!". :p

[Spike-X]

That.

Was.

Brilliant.



Sure, I was a bit annoyed at the bait-and-switch at the start, but ten minutes in I'd forgotten all about it.

Yes, there was a hell of a lot of fanwank, but it was pretty bloody well done fanwank.

DoctorDonna was so much fun. I would liked to have seen a few more episodes with her, but it's not to be.

[Pro]

So what are people's hopes and expectations for the new season in 2010?

Personally I'm hoping the doctor will try and save Gallifrey by breaking into the timewar. But that would change a lot of history we've already seen which may be rewritten in the process. By saving Gallifrey will the doctor rewrite time and undo all the good he's done while being on his own? Would it leave the future terra incognito again? The timewar seems to be the one huge plot gap that hasn't been dealth with in the new series. Wibbly wobbly timey wimey indeed.

Also hoping to see River Song revisited as companion at some point.

And seeing Jennie return.

[Spike-X]

I think the Time War should be left alone.

Would love to see River and Jenny again. Especially Jenny. *sigh*

[thehod]

Especially Jenny. *sigh*

And she'd love to see you too, Spike.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3295/2456604279_4f21b2f222.jpg

[Spike-X]

Well, she's only human.

So to speak...

[Dark_Master]

I'd like to see Jenny again but it would probably be better if she returned in the 2010 series and not in any of next year's specials. Otherwise I think it would undermine her death scene a bit (from the doctor's POW, I mean)
There's still one lose end, mind.

Who has The master's Ring?

Are there more? That should be it.in the commentary of that episode (or in confidential, don't remember right now) they said that they only made that scene to leave the possibility for The Master's return open, it's not that they had specific plans for him. So it's very possible that that plot point will be open for a few more series before someone decides to use it

[dswynne]

Here's my review:

Good set-up, excellent characterization, lousy resolution.

Personally, I would have liked it if Donna turned out to be the Rani (I really think an evil Donna is a lot scarier than one would think), and would go on to be a recurring villain in the next series. The Doctor would have felt responsible for this turn, and would set up the premise that there are other Timelords that could have survived the war. Would it have created a paradox? Maybe, but this is sci-fi...WHO CARES? As long as a good story could be produced, then I am all for breaking conventional norms.

-D. Wynne

[Karl H]

Typical season ender I guess.

At times, the brilliant life affirming stuff that Doctor Who should be about, at times fanwank,.
But my favourite bit and I don't think it's too much of a spoiler was the German speaking Daleks, that was Brilliant!

[themightyjbowski]

And she'd love to see you too, Spike.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3295/2456604279_4f21b2f222.jpg
J-e-n-n-y...*drools*