Doctor Who *spoilers*

[Omac70]

You were molested by the Pilsbury Doughboy, weren't you.
Actually, it was the new shmoo. And it was no laughing matter.

[mattx110]

No one can ignore the Adipose. They're just too adorable! Like fat Pokemon!
Ah, it's pronounced "Pac-man".


And Sound of Drums was so fricken awesome, wasn't it?

And with the Sontarons... calling it "Atmos" and having it attempt to convert the atmosphere, isn't that a bit... . The name is such a giveaway pun, that I can't imagine being one of the humans in the know trying to sell that to car dealers without giggling like a schoolgirl every time I said "atmos".

[king mob]

So, Neil Gaiman might be writing Who when it returns in 2010. Hopefully if this is true we'll also finally see Stephen Fry's episode.

[mattx110]

So, Neil Gaiman might be writing Who when it returns in 2010. Hopefully if this is true we'll also finally see Stephen Fry's episode.
Holy Crap Yes!

Well, hopefully.


edit:

re: Remembrance of the Daleks... The doctor is fricken cold!

[ChrisIII]

The Sixth Doctor era is kind of bad, but that's not really Colin Baker's fault, but more the script and producer's, as well as BBC politics. The novels and audios that center around the Sixth Doctor show what could've been done had they toned him down a bit.

[Matt]

Things improved when Mel went bye-bye and Ace became the companion instead.

Oh yes.
There's a reason that there's always a toss up between who was the worst companion; Mel or Adric.

[Stressfactor]

Oh yes.
There's a reason that there's always a toss up between who was the worst companion; Mel or Adric.

Adric.

McCoy's performance (although not what it would later be) compensates for Mel but Adric sets my teeth so on edge it nearly overwhelmsTom Baker AND Lalla Ward in the early days.

Besides that, Bonnie Langford could, occasionally, turn in a good performance or at least a performance that worked well in the context of the script (some of her parts in "Paradise Towers" work well in the context of the scene). Matthew Waterhouse was just too wooden most of the time and when he wasn't wooden he was overplaying it.

Although, as I understand it, Waterhouse WAS a novice actor at the time and I don't think "Doctor Who" is a safe place for novices to get experience.

[Paul McEnery]

Oh yes.
There's a reason that there's always a toss up between who was the worst companion; Mel or Adric.

Clearly it is Mel, since at least Adric had the decency to die a horrible death.



Actually, that was an unforgiveable moment in Who. We all gleefully piled into the big student dorm TV room to watch the death of Adric...

...And then the bastards made it poignant.

[Cyke]

When did this happen what issues?

Doctor Who Magazine #135 was when the Seventh Doctor shrank Death's Head from Transformer-sized (DH just beat up a bunch of Decepticons) down to relatively human sized using the Master's Tissue Compression Eliminator, which is how he stayed for the rest of his comic life.

Death's Head #8 was when they tussled again, teamed-up, and then got into an argument which ended up with the Doctor stranding Death's Head onto Earth 616, right on top of Four Freedoms Plaza. DH #9 had him battling the FF, and future issues had Death's Head fighting off/teaming up with various mainstream Marvel heroes in the 616 universe.

At the end of the DH series, it's hinted that the Seventh Doctor had actually manipulated much of the events in DH's life, including intentionally stranding DH on Reed Richard's doorstep, as the Doctor and Reed are colleagues.

[mattx110]

Doctor Who Magazine #135 was when the Seventh Doctor shrank Death's Head from Transformer-sized (DH just beat up a bunch of Decepticons) down to relatively human sized using the Master's Tissue Compression Eliminator, which is how he stayed for the rest of his comic life.

Death's Head #8 was when they tussled again, teamed-up, and then got into an argument which ended up with the Doctor stranding Death's Head onto Earth 616, right on top of Four Freedoms Plaza. DH #9 had him battling the FF, and future issues had Death's Head fighting off/teaming up with various mainstream Marvel heroes in the 616 universe.

At the end of the DH series, it's hinted that the Seventh Doctor had actually manipulated much of the events in DH's life, including intentionally stranding DH on Reed Richard's doorstep, as the Doctor and Reed are colleagues.
What?

Reed isn't even on the same level as the Doctor.

[Cyke]

What?

Reed isn't even on the same level as the Doctor.

Albert Einstein and Isaac Newton aren't on the same level of Reed, even less so than the Doctor, yet the Doctor still considers all three of them as colleagues, great thinkers, and personal friends.

Just because he knows more than them doesn't mean he can't work with them. He thinks highly of those three.

[Stressfactor]

What?

Reed isn't even on the same level as the Doctor.

Weeeelllll......... Just to be an annoying devil's advocate here... Let's look at the evidence....

The Doctor: Travels through time and space in a machine his people created which is currently stuck in the shape of a c. 1950's British Metropolitain Police Box.

Reed Richards: Occasionally travels through time OR space (but usually not both at the same time) in various machines he builds himself.

The Doctor: Travels with a succession of men and women who tend to idolize him, think he is amazing, and occasionally get snarky and annoyed with him and/or fall in love with him.

Reed Richards: Travels with his wife -- who often gets snarky and annoyed with him and has left him several times threatening to divorce his ass, his obnoxious, perpetually adolecent brother-in-law who seems to delight in doing nothing but cause trouble, and his mutated best-friend who tends to be mopey, witch about how said mutated appreance ruins chances at a normal life, and insists that no one could truly care about him DESPITE the fact that he has on several occasions scored some pretty hot chics. And, oh yeah, Reed feels responsible about said mutated appearance so all of Ben's witching just lays on the world's biggest guilt trip.

The Doctor: An Amazing intellect that allows him to understand transdimensional theory and non-linear thinking. PLUS having knowledge of multiple alien advances, theories, and cultures.

Reed Richards: An amazing intellect that allows him to understand transdimensional theory and non-linear thinking. Occasionally gets exposed to new alien advances, theories, and cultures but usually picks them up pretty quickly.

The Doctor: Over 900 years of experience (over 1000 years if he would stop lying about his age :wink: )

Reed Richards: About 40 years of experience.

The Doctor: Has a sonic screwdriver he invented himself that often gets him out of sticky situations.

Reed Richards: Has the ability to stretch and reshape his body which often gets him out of sticky situations.

The Doctor: Has faced a variety of enemies from angry aliens to other Time Lords. His top few however include Daleks, the Master, and Cybermen.

Reed Richards: Has faced a variety of enemies from angry aliens to supervillains. His top few include Doctor Doom, Galactus, and Puppet Master

The Doctor: Has 13 lives.

Reed Richards: Has nothing.

The Doctor: The TARDIS is virtually indestructible.

Reed Richards: You don't want to know how many versions of the Baxter Building have been blown out from under the FF.

The Doctor: The TARDIS is bigger on the inside than it is on the outside

Reed Richards: The Baxter Building is bigger on the outside than it is on the inside.

Yeah.... I think the Doctor wins for the TARDIS and the companions alone....

[Typo Lad]

Actually, Richards didn't build the Time Machine. Doom did. Richards is just riding Doom's coat-tails.

ONE DAY, THE WORLD WILL KNOW THE TRUTH, RICHARDS!

[Stressfactor]

Plus, Doctor Doom is just a Cyberman wannabe as everyone knows. And Doom vs. Daleks? Fuggedaboutit -- Doom wouldn't even stand a chance. EXTERMINATE!

[mattx110]

Albert Einstein and Isaac Newton aren't on the same level of Reed, even less so than the Doctor, yet the Doctor still considers all three of them as colleagues, great thinkers, and personal friends.

Just because he knows more than them doesn't mean he can't work with them. He thinks highly of those three.
Makes sense. I discern between fictional brilliant people and real ones. And Reed knows about time travel and aliens, and lives in a world where that was a reality. Einstein being able to figure out this stuff with his primitive earth technology seems more impressive, and less like he's in competitition with the Doctor than Reed.


Anyway, Remembrance+Silver Nemesis. 2 in a row where the Doctor lured enemies to earth and people died, and he wiped out either thousands of cybermen, or millions of Daleks and a couple planets... And Ace is pretty under the mohawk braid and giant leather jacket with her name on it. Fricken late '80s fashion! Although I'd be a bit more concerned about the mental health of the Doctor with his reckless genocidal rampage. I thought they hired McCoy for his comedic acting.
edit: Donna would have hated Dr. 7

[Cyke]

Makes sense. I discern between fictional brilliant people and real ones. And Reed knows about time travel and aliens, and lives in a world where that was a reality. Einstein being able to figure out this stuff with his primitive earth technology seems more impressive, and less like he's in competitition with the Doctor than Reed.

Part of the fun thing is all the theories. There's a fan theory by one of the writers/analysts/historians at marvunapp.com about how, given that the Seventh Doctor was probably manipulating Death's Head's life, and that this incarnation was the greatest strategic mind of all the Doctors, that Seven had sent Death's Head to Earth 616 in a larger scheme that eventually saved Franklin Richards.

Y'see, Seven dropped off Death's Head at the Baxter Building. DH was then welcomed by the FF's defense grid, and then fought the FF themselves. In the FF's own book a few months later, Reed is seen tweaking the grid as a result of the battle with Death's Head. Franklin Richards was then in danger (I'm not sure by who,) but was saved thanks to Reed's improvements to the defense grid. So, really, in the end, if the Seventh Doctor hadn't intervened, there would've been dire consequences for Franklin.

Also, to show some McCoy love, the best cliffhanger ever:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw6OwJQDCoM

[LordEd1976]

Also, to show some McCoy love, the best cliffhanger ever:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw6OwJQDCoM

litterally

[ZT4]

That should have happened with "Empire Strikes Back"

[sneggz]

so, twas a thread on the x-boards messing wit the hero machines for x-characters, and i just had to try my hand at this pic!

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/ll44/naymid/2doctor.jpg

[ZT4]

"Hey who turned out the lights?"

Moffat strikes again. Loved some of the digs at "plot developments" ("Yeah, I'm rubbish at those"), which ironicly, or deliberatley, dont come heavy and hard for the first portion, which allowed for the vintage horror elements to take center stage. What the heck is with CAL and the girl?

Teammember: Why am I the only with a helmet on?

River: Because I dont fancy you

[Stressfactor]

Ah, now THAT'S what I've been waiting for! The last several episodes had left me cold but this one is a scorcher! A mystery, apparent metatextual references, and creep factor of ten -- nice new take on an old Zombie riff. Skeleton in a spacesuit is always awesome... even when Scooby-Doo did it. http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:-Q7Wx1AESvE0PM:http://mantiseye.com/img/gallery/sargasso/scooby01sm.jpg

[Tobias March]

Wasn't that just brilliant? Loved it and once again Moffatt shows how it should be done. The scene with the slowly decaying digital encoding of the girl's mind was beautiful, moving and eerie. Lovely episode, can't wait to find out what's going on ! :biggrin:

[Stressfactor]

And, also.... new favorite line: "I'm a Time Traveler, I point and laugh at archaeologists."

I agree, the Data Ghost was a really touching moment and Catherine Tate handled the whole thing just right. Without even saying very much you could see that she understood the girl's plight -- you got the impression that Donna really knew what it was like to be considered the dumbest person in the room and she wanted to try to help the girl. The fact that the Data Ghost refered to her as "the nice woman" said a lot.

Tennant also did a good job handling River Song -- she is something new to him -- a companion he hasn't met yet -- and Tennant pitched the Doctor just right, its like the surfer who is used to riding the top of the wave suddenly wiping out and getting caught in the undertow. The Doctor likes to think he is on top of time but here he's been swept under it. And then when he realizes that, in trying to save Donna he's damned her, his guilt and heartbreak are evident.

I know they've already filmed the series ender but I kind of hope mabe they leave the door open a crack to let Tate come back for a visit if she wants to. Her on-screen chemistry with Tennant in this episode is perfect!

[Ontir]

"You've only just met him..."

"No, he's only just met me!"

Moffat continues to thrill. I can't wait to see where all the plot threads he dangled before us tonight lead!

River's interaction with Donna goes a long way to confirming my suspicions of Donna's ultimate fate, though hopefully not tonight.

River can't be Genny, I don't think, because River would've told the Doctor, or at least toyed with him 'til he figured it out. I don't recall the little girl's name, and I wondered if it might be her, re-visiting "the Girl in the Fireplace," with the Doctor showing up when she needs him, and then going his merry way.

Still, the Doctor's given out the TARDIS keys, and he's tweaked a few phones, but handing over the sonic screw-driver?!? She MUST be someone special!

[Ontir]

I just watched the 1st ep of Sarah Jane Adventures, and it was pretty good. It felt a bit rushed in spots, largely because they had a lot to introduce, but it all worked. I can't believe Elizabeth Sladen is 60! She looks fantastic!

[Haydn C]

"You've only just met him..."

"No, he's only just met me!"

Moffat continues to thrill. I can't wait to see where all the plot threads he dangled before us tonight lead!

River's interaction with Donna goes a long way to confirming my suspicions of Donna's ultimate fate, though hopefully not tonight.

River can't be Genny, I don't think, because River would've told the Doctor, or at least toyed with him 'til he figured it out. I don't recall the little girl's name, and I wondered if it might be her, re-visiting "the Girl in the Fireplace," with the Doctor showing up when she needs him, and then going his merry way.

Still, the Doctor's given out the TARDIS keys, and he's tweaked a few phones, but handing over the sonic screw-driver?!? She MUST be someone special!

It really does look as if Donna is going to come to a sticky end. Unless they are trying really hard to fake us out.

Just a great episode all round last night. So much so that I am now really annoyed I might miss next weeks episode, I am away in France. Best buy a new vcr this week or does anyone else have any suggestions as to anywhere I may be able to view next weeks episode after the event?

[Haydn C]

And, also.... new favorite line: "I'm a Time Traveler, I point and laugh at archaeologists."

I agree, the Data Ghost was a really touching moment and Catherine Tate handled the whole thing just right. Without even saying very much you could see that she understood the girl's plight -- you got the impression that Donna really knew what it was like to be considered the dumbest person in the room and she wanted to try to help the girl. The fact that the Data Ghost refered to her as "the nice woman" said a lot.

Tennant also did a good job handling River Song -- she is something new to him -- a companion he hasn't met yet -- and Tennant pitched the Doctor just right, its like the surfer who is used to riding the top of the wave suddenly wiping out and getting caught in the undertow. The Doctor likes to think he is on top of time but here he's been swept under it. And then when he realizes that, in trying to save Donna he's damned her, his guilt and heartbreak are evident.

I know they've already filmed the series ender but I kind of hope mabe they leave the door open a crack to let Tate come back for a visit if she wants to. Her on-screen chemistry with Tennant in this episode is perfect!

I don't think this double header is the end of Donna the Doctor will rescue all the people who have been saved by the library computer, (Dr Moon/Colin Salmon)?, next week. It does rather look as though she is in for major trouble at the end of the series though.

[Stressfactor]

I don't think this double header is the end of Donna the Doctor will rescue all the people who have been saved by the library computer, (Dr Moon/Colin Salmon)?, next week. It does rather look as though she is in for major trouble at the end of the series though.

Oh, I know Donna goes on past this episode, I was referring to...

Possible spoilers and Rumors about the end of series four There are rumors floating around the net that, in the season finale Donna either dies or she loses her memory of the time spent with the Doctor and the Doctor leaves her in the care of her grandfather. I'm maybe hoping for the latter because if she doesn't die then Tate *could* always come back to the show for an episode or a special but if she dies.... well, that's a little more final.

[Haydn C]

Oh, I know Donna goes on past this episode, I was referring to...

Possible spoilers and Rumors about the end of series four There are rumors floating around the net that, in the season finale Donna either dies or she loses her memory of the time spent with the Doctor and the Doctor leaves her in the care of her grandfather. I'm maybe hoping for the latter because if she doesn't die then Tate *could* always come back to the show for an episode or a special but if she dies.... well, that's a little more final.

Ok, gotcha.

Agreed on the rumour as well,second option is better.

[king mob]

It really does look as if Donna is going to come to a sticky end. Unless they are trying really hard to fake us out.

I'd like to see Donna die if only to ensure that Tate never, ever returns. That aside, it's the sort of Big Emotional Event RTD would do to sign off his last full series.

Just a great episode all round last night. So much so that I am now really annoyed I might miss next weeks episode, I am away in France. Best buy a new vcr this week or does anyone else have any suggestions as to anywhere I may be able to view next weeks episode after the event?

Use the BBC's iPlayer service, it's really quite wonderful (the sound goes up to 11) & where I watched the episode this morning. Euro 2008 starts next week so it's going to something that'll be useful for the rest of this series.

Best episode of the series so far last night, lots of big hints as to what might happen at the end of this series & along with Fires Of Pompeii, the best use of guest stars so far.

It all bodes well for hopefully a great ending to a poor series that's failed to reach much of the best parts of it's first three years since it returned.

[drwho]

I thought the latest episode was very freaky. I really don't know why they are already trying to get rid of Donna. I really think she should stay around for a season, or two more. I do not want to see her die, or mind wiped.

[darkhanamaru]

I don't think this double header is the end of Donna the Doctor will rescue all the people who have been saved by the library computer, (Dr Moon/Colin Salmon)?, next week. It does rather look as though she is in for major trouble at the end of the series though.

I think the girl is the library in the future and maybe Dr. Moon is some type of time traveler or with Unit or Torchwood and knows they need to save Donna and the Doctor. I don't think Donna is dead this episode at all and i think your right that he will be able to redownload the people with the help of the library. Obviously the library has that capability, otherwise you wouldn't have the droids in the first place. I was also wondering if maybe River ends up not being special for the doctor uses the book to save donna and change time, against his better judgement? who knows. I can't wait.

BTW, i love how we get to see Donna being uncomfortable with technology and ideas that challenge current ideas of soul and consciousness but that the others consider day to day. That was very aware righting.

I also loved the backhanded dig at Jeffrey Archer at the beginning. The idea that his books might last to the 51st century is somewhat laughable and appalling but demonstrates that the library is really complete :biggrin: .

[Tobias March]

I thought the latest episode was very freaky. I really don't know why they are already trying to get rid of Donna. I really think she should stay around for a season, or two more. I do not want to see her die, or mind wiped.

Ah but think of all those complaints about Tate since the announcement of her coming on board? Think of the writers love for syrrupy schmaltz and melodrama? And imagine how perfect it will feel for them to make nerds cry into their Yops with a big dramatic Catherine Tate death scene!

And maybe this time they won't rip off Philip Pullman! :evilsmile:

[Omac70]

The best episode for a year, with more invention and imagination in it than the previous seven episodes bundled together.

Really - far too many good things to list. Moffat is a genius.

[Haydn C]

Use the BBC's iPlayer service, it's really quite wonderful (the sound goes up to 11) & where I watched the episode this morning. Euro 2008 starts next week so it's going to something that'll be useful for the rest of this series.



I thought about that but they are only up for six days aren't they? Are they down loadable from their iplayer? Ok yes they are, ignore me.

[ZT4]

There "getting rid of Donna" because it's the story. One of the heachahes about companions that stay on after their sell-by date (Ros, Peri, Mel, Nyssa) is whatever got them into their adventures doesnt follow them a whole lot

[Siddon]

Plus, Doctor Doom is just a Cyberman wannabe as everyone knows. And Doom vs. Daleks? Fuggedaboutit -- Doom wouldn't even stand a chance. EXTERMINATE!

Doom vs Dalek's is not a fun match-up

Daleks vs Galactus
Master vs Kang
Cyberman vs Ultron

Those are the fights I want to see.

[mattx110]

He did the McCoy (might be from before McCoy, but I recently learned he did that by watching [I don't remember which episode]) "finger lick check the wind direction to find an exit" thingy. And there's a decent chance that whatever happens to River during the next episode is what drives the Doctor to be so damn nice to her in the future. One of those messed up "first time you met me, last time I met you" thingies.

And more little shop love.


And so far, "Ghostlight" is pretty awesome.

[drwho]

There "getting rid of Donna" because it's the story. One of the heachahes about companions that stay on after their sell-by date (Ros, Peri, Mel, Nyssa) is whatever got them into their adventures doesnt follow them a whole lot

Why make a habit of having companions stay only a season? Companions should get a few seasons and not just that chipette Rose.

[Popgun]

I think the girl is the library in the future and maybe Dr. Moon is some type of time traveler or with Unit or Torchwood and knows they need to save Donna and the Doctor. I don't think Donna is dead this episode at all and i think your right that he will be able to redownload the people with the help of the library. Obviously the library has that capability, otherwise you wouldn't have the droids in the first place. I was also wondering if maybe River ends up not being special for the doctor uses the book to save donna and change time, against his better judgement? who knows. I can't wait.

BTW, i love how we get to see Donna being uncomfortable with technology and ideas that challenge current ideas of soul and consciousness but that the others consider day to day. That was very aware righting.

I also loved the backhanded dig at Jeffrey Archer at the beginning. The idea that his books might last to the 51st century is somewhat laughable and appalling but demonstrates that the library is really complete :biggrin: .



I saw the little girl and Doctor Moon as both being aspects of the Library Computer's consciousness *Shrugs*.

Talulah Riley very much conforms to the New Who tradition of outrageously attractive guest stars. I really should start driving past the studio more often.

[ZT4]

Why make a habit of having companions stay only a season?

Like I said, it's part of the story theyve been building towards for four years, it's a "habit" because it's intentionally structured for a pay-off.

Chances are, if they abandon this mentality, the companions will have longer tenures

[Ontir]

It really does look as if Donna is going to come to a sticky end. Unless they are trying really hard to fake us out.

When she told Martha she was going to travel with the Doctor forever I thought, "She's toast!"

[...]does anyone else have any suggestions as to anywhere I may be able to view next weeks episode after the event?

Youtube! That's how I watch the show every saturday.

The companions haven't just stayed around for one season, Rose was on for two when the actress decided to move on. Martha was on as a "WHO" regular for one season, but they've crossed her into Torchwood, and used her to re-intro U.N.I.T., as well as pop up on "Who" from time to time. Donna is, I believe, here to cost the Doctor something. She's going to be the first he's lost since Adric, and I expect Martha, Rose, Jack, and perhaps even Sarah Jane will be there when it happens.

[tricksterpup]

I saw the little girl and Doctor Moon as both being aspects of the Library Computer's consciousness *Shrugs*.

Talulah Riley very much conforms to the New Who tradition of outrageously attractive guest stars. I really should start driving past the studio more often.

I agree here.
I feel the girl is the computer herself. And the doctor is the program trying to fix her. Hence an Anti virus or spam program trying to fix the computer..

I totally love this episode and felt it brilliant. Like many others I found myself creeped out by much of the premise and I loved Donna again in this episode.

River, now she is interesting. I really liked the glimpse of the Doctor's future and her book. I realized there was a tie in once I saw the blue book.

All round fun episode, and I agree best one of the season so far.

[Captain Jim]

I just watched the 1st ep of Sarah Jane Adventures, and it was pretty good. It felt a bit rushed in spots, largely because they had a lot to introduce, but it all worked. I can't believe Elizabeth Sladen is 60! She looks fantastic!

Sarah Jane Adventures has its own thread.

[Ontir]

Good 2 know.

[king mob]

Ah but think of all those complaints about Tate since the announcement of her coming on board? Think of the writers love for syrrupy schmaltz and melodrama? And imagine how perfect it will feel for them to make nerds cry into their Yops with a big dramatic Catherine Tate death scene!


We can only hope.

Tate hasn't been as poor as expected but it's impossible to seperate her from her comedy work, which is the danger when pulling in established names as regulars in the series.

[Stressfactor]

We can only hope.

Tate hasn't been as poor as expected but it's impossible to seperate her from her comedy work, which is the danger when pulling in established names as regulars in the series.

Sorry King Mob but that's really a bigger problem for the Brits than it is for us Yanks. Having never seen any of her sketch comedy work I've been able to evaluate her on just her merits.

While I rather liked her turn as "The Runaway Bride" I think the writers did a really, really wise thing by toning her down and making her less strident for the series. I think that was the big fear a lot of people had -- that she would be obnoxious and grating and have absolutely no sympathy or empathy.

And after several seasons of angsty "I'm in love with the Doctor" companions Donna has been nice to have around. Someone who just hangs with the Doctor. And this past episode it was nice to NOT have that stupid "we're not a couple" running joke. The Doctor and Donna's platonic relationship was nicely reflected in the (perfectly in-character) comment of Donna's "Oi! Hands!" When the Doctor yanked her away from one of the shadows.

And Moffat also proved that he understands that the best Who villains are predicated on easily recognizable sounds or tag-lines. "Exterminate", "Don't turn away, don't even blink", and now "Hey! Who turned out the lights?!"

One article I read once talked about the old, Troughton era monsters the Yeti, with one of the producers or directors saying that kids in the school yard would play at being Yeti by whistling the two note tone that the Yeti control spheres emitted. It was something easily recognizable -- something that the kids could latch onto -- same here. The repetition of "Hey, who turned out the lights" becomes something instantly recognizable -- as well as taking a perfectly ordinary phrase spoken in a perfectly ordinary tone of voice and turning it into something menacing and sinister.

[Ontir]

Not to mention, "Are you my mummy?"

I have to agree about Tate. Even if I'd seen her comedy stuff, I'd be able to watch "Donna," separate from all of that. One of the things I really like about Donna, is that when we met her, yes she was insufferable, but there were glimpses of capability behind it. When she returned, she had clearly been changed by her time with the Doctor, and was looking to continue in this new direction.

[Stressfactor]

Stupid browser made it look like my post was lost. Nothing to see here, move along......

[king mob]

Sorry King Mob but that's really a bigger problem for the Brits than it is for us Yanks. Having never seen any of her sketch comedy work I've been able to evaluate her on just her merits.

The thing is it's the home audience that counts, overseas audiences are an added bonus for the success of the programme but pandering to them (as JNT did in his time) isn't a good idea for the programme as a whole.

However she's done her job in boosting audience figures because of her crossover appeal as A Big BBC Star.

While I rather liked her turn as "The Runaway Bride" I think the writers did a really, really wise thing by toning her down and making her less strident for the series. I think that was the big fear a lot of people had -- that she would be obnoxious and grating and have absolutely no sympathy or empathy.

They had to tone her down, Tate was mostly panned for her performance in Runaway Bride & if that'd been kept up then series 4 would have been unwatchable as opposed to just being poor.

One article I read once talked about the old, Troughton era monsters the Yeti, with one of the producers or directors saying that kids in the school yard would play at being Yeti by whistling the two note tone that the Yeti control spheres emitted.

One of the nice things about Who returning are kids playing at being Daleks & running round shouting 'EXTERMINATE' very loudly in playgrounds. I'm sure one of the reasons why Tate was cast was to ensure that the tweenie audience stayed on board (especially as we've had dips in viewing figures due to summer coming & going)due to her comedy characters being hugely popular with kids.

One thing I'd like to see is Who returning to autumn/winter rather than spring/summer when it returns in 2010. That time is it's natural home & it's competing with a regular series of summer events such as Eurovision, World Cups, Wimbledon, etc. Moving it would mean you wouldn't have to move it around as much as it has been the last two years, though with iPlayer that's becoming less of an issue.

[Stressfactor]

One of the nice things about Who returning are kids playing at being Daleks & running round shouting 'EXTERMINATE' very loudly in playgrounds.

Playgrounds and BEYOND! It's the 21st century and everywhere I go on YouTube I keep running into little bounders* with digital videorecorders and dodgy computer video FX and editing programs putting together their own little "Doctor Who" episodes starring themselves and their friends as the Doctor and companions. Some of them even seem to build their own Daleks and TARDIS props!

One part of me wonders if some of THEM may grow up to be the next generation of "Doctor Who" writers.

[Ontir]

I love that there are Dr Who fan series on youtube. Their SFX are on parr with the original series for the most part, and the acting is beyond shaky, but the fact that kids are doing this means that it's a part of their consciousness, and that's good for whovians everywhere!

[Paul McEnery]

We can only hope.

Tate hasn't been as poor as expected but it's impossible to seperate her from her comedy work, which is the danger when pulling in established names as regulars in the series.

Yes. There's nothing worse than bringing in people who are really well known for their comedy work into the show. It ruins the whole mood and you can't take it seriously at all.

That Jon Pertwee guy. Good god, what were they thinking. Those shows were no fun at all. And Sylvester McCoy -- quite dreadful. Couldn't stand it when they had Eleanor Bron and Nerys Hughes in the show. And Bernard Cribbins, he'll always be the Wombles to me. Takes me right out of it.

[ZT4]

Yes. There's nothing worse than bringing in people who are really well known for their comedy work into the show. It ruins the whole mood and you can't take it seriously at all.

It helps the character be more down-to-earth

That Jon Pertwee guy. Good god, what were they thinking. Those shows were no fun at all.

Yes they were

And Sylvester McCoy -- quite dreadfu.

Wrong.

And if you so much as liked Tom Baker's performance...then this argument completly falls apart

[ChrisIII]

Paul I believe was being sarcastic.


Not sure if Jon and McCoy were as famous as Tate was before they became the Doctor, though.

[Stressfactor]

I love that there are Dr Who fan series on youtube. Their SFX are on parr with the original series for the most part, and the acting is beyond shaky, but the fact that kids are doing this means that it's a part of their consciousness, and that's good for whovians everywhere!

I agree. Plus, it really shows that they've got guts -- being willing to open themselves up to comments from everybody by putting their stuff in public AND it also shows that they have creative imaginations and they are USING those creative imaginations.... They are WRITING stories and scripts instead of sitting around playing video games that someone else has written.

[mattx110]

Paul I believe was being sarcastic.


Not sure if Jon and McCoy were as famous as Tate was before they became the Doctor, though.
McCoy was well-known, but more of a theater guy. Didn't have a series of sketch shows with catch-phrases. Don't really know about Pertwee.

[king mob]

Yes. There's nothing worse than bringing in people who are really well known for their comedy work into the show. It ruins the whole mood and you can't take it seriously at all.

Ken Dodd....

[king mob]

Paul I believe was being sarcastic.

Indeedy so.


Not sure if Jon and McCoy were as famous as Tate was before they became the Doctor, though.

Pertwee was better known as a comic actor in things like the Carry On films, but had been trying to get a role that was serious so when he got Who he did play it seriously. Until he started camping it up of course.

Then he left to pursue a serious acting career as Worzel Gummage.

McCoy was known only as a comic appearing in his underpants on Tiswas, or stabbing a fork in his bollocks with Ken Campbell's Roadshow. Who was his first really serious telly role, though as mentioned he had done serious theatre work.

[Green Goblin]

Found Slience in the Libary really good and very creepy. I want to know who that woman from the Doctor's future. I think its a future wife of somesort. My brother has a theory that the Doctor's life is like a circle and that when she mentioned he older could be refering to the first Doctor and could be Susan's mother.

[Stressfactor]

Well, with all the Whovians around here, should we start polling to see who River Song could be?

A) Romana in human form

B) The Rani -- this one is doubtful since the Rani was really not the sort to be nice to the Doctor -- call him "sweetie" and mean it.

C) Plain, old future companion, Bernice Summerfield analogue, who meets the Doctor at a future time.

D) A decendent of Susan -- this one is my own, personal, Waaaaayyyy out there theory. Chances of this being true are close to absolute zero.

E) Moffat will enjoy teasing fans and never reveal the truth.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Well, with all the Whovians around here, should we start polling to see who River Song could be?

A) Romana in human form

B) The Rani -- this one is doubtful since the Rani was really not the sort to be nice to the Doctor -- call him "sweetie" and mean it.

C) Plain, old future companion, Bernice Summerfield analogue, who meets the Doctor at a future time.

D) A decendent of Susan -- this one is my own, personal, Waaaaayyyy out there theory. Chances of this being true are close to absolute zero.

E) Moffat will enjoy teasing fans and never reveal the truth.

It seems essential to the point of the story/mystique (all the reference to SPOILERS) that this is someone the Doctor hasn't yet met, so I'd think the answers are limited to C D and E options, but that is just me.

[Ontir]

McCoy was known only as a comic appearing in his underpants on Tiswas, or stabbing a fork in his bollocks with Ken Campbell's Roadshow. Who was his first really serious telly role, though as mentioned he had done serious theatre work.

Wasn't McCoy the nephew in Open All Hours? I tried to look it up on imdb, and couldn't find a listing.

If River isn't a future companion, she might be a regeneration of Genny!

[king mob]

David Jason was Ronnie Barker's nephew in Open All Hours.

[Green Goblin]

Well my brother has a theory that the Doctor's life is like a circule and that River Song meet the Doctor during his first incarnation and could be possibly Susan's mother. I know it sounds sort of weird but at the same time it makes sense what do you guys think.

[Omac70]

Well, with all the Whovians around here, should we start polling to see who River Song could be?

A) Romana in human form

B) The Rani -- this one is doubtful since the Rani was really not the sort to be nice to the Doctor -- call him "sweetie" and mean it.

C) Plain, old future companion, Bernice Summerfield analogue, who meets the Doctor at a future time.

D) A decendent of Susan -- this one is my own, personal, Waaaaayyyy out there theory. Chances of this being true are close to absolute zero.

E) Moffat will enjoy teasing fans and never reveal the truth.

Can't choose between (C) & (E). Never in a million years any of the others. :smile:

Depends on how far the hints go in part two. Obviously someone The Doctor meets in the future but probably someone we'll never see again (Moffat might create a "gap" when he starts). I personally think there's more to the relationship than just her being a "companion" - Moffat I think would want to do more than that - but the more it moves away from the norm, the more vague it's likely to be. Something like that is great to tease us with and has a lot of mileage in it - but if we get all the details it just drags the show into the mundane.

[drwho]

I think i may have heard this somewhere, but not sure. Wasn't there a spinoff book series that featured this character as well as audio stories? I remember there being a series of books that were released having to do with an archaeologist that knew the doctor. Of course i look on the net now and i cant find the proof anywhere. I was off but maybe this character was based on this one

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernice_Summerfield

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Bernice_Summerfield

[ZT4]

Only character to allegedly "shag" The Doctor in the novels...

[Ontir]

David Jason was Ronnie Barker's nephew in Open All Hours.

Granville! That was his name! Nephew of Arkright. I LOVED that show!

"We're closed!"

"The sign says open 24 hours!"

"Not in a row..."

[ZT4]

A fairly good conclusion this week.

A companion's departure in her introduction...I love timey whimey. The nero-link responsible for "Ghosting" played a larger part in the storyline's resolution. Everything else most figured out the week before (CAL being the girl, "save" meaning "saved" literally), but I underestimated the Ghosting process as being a significant plot boost despite being used for dramatic and comedy effect.

Liked that the forest was demolished to make way for the library, explaining the Vasta Nerada's motivations...

The TARDIS doors now open at the snap of a finger...or will The Doctor be more comfortable doing that when RTD has left?

Next week looks like it's going to be a "closet drama", the budget will be there for a few minutes, maybe a few before the end credits, but it's set almost completly inside a monorail cab with only a knock at the walls haunting The Doctor and the passengers. Tate wont be in this episode, so it's the first real "companion-lite" story in a while.

[azz786]

Doctor Who Episode 10: Midnight (Saturday 14th June, 7:10-7:55)
-
On the planet Midnight, Donna Noble goes sunbathing while the Doctor boards a shuttle bus to the Sapphire Waterfall. However, something dangerous is going with him, signaling its presence with its constant knocking on the side of the bus.
Official Site Links (Main Page (http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/s4/episodes/S4_10), Fear Factor (http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/s4/episodes/?episode=s4_10&action=fearfactor))

[Stressfactor]

Oh, so bittersweet for "Forests of the Dead".... And now I wanna kill Moffat.

I really DID expect him to not reveal anything about River's relationship with the Doctor BUT for him to ADD a tease about the Doctor's real name AND the only circumstances which would cause him to reveal his name was dirty pool.

[drwho]

SO let me be the first to predict that somehow Donna is gonna end up leaving cus she finds that guy from cyberspace at least they aint gonna kill her.

[drwho]

This gives me hope that she will have a happy ending. lol

The fact that i think donna is gonna end up meeting the guy again and running off with him

[Stressfactor]

To be fair, now that all the W00T! has worn off, I am a tennsy bit concered about one thing... Moffat's reliance on the Time Loop plot device. He uses it here, he used it in "Blink" and he used it in "Time Crash".


Also, in the first few seconds of the trailer for next week was I the only one thinking about William Shatner in that old "Twilight Zone" episode: "There's something on the wing!"

[Matt Linton]

As long as Moffat continues to write episodes as well as he does, I don't mind if he uses similar devices. He seems to be one of the few Who writers who uses the time travel aspect for more than just getting the Doctor and companion to the next plot.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Liked that the forest was demolished to make way for the library, explaining the Vasta Nerada's motivations...

That isn't what happened though, the forest wasn't demolished to build the library, the swarm's eggs were on the trees used to make the paper, that was why there were so many of them. There was nothing to indicate there was a literal forest where the library stood, it was the entire planet. The 'forest' was the assemblage of all the books together.

[noh-varr]

The ending was sad and sweet and oh so great. But the most bad ass part was the Doctor telling a swarm of mindless predators to look him up and leave him alone... then having it listen.

[IamtheRock3]

Man the Doctor a jerk.

was reading Wikki

And never knew The Doctor basicly help Create the master but saling him out to Death

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Death

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Master- See Early Life

[Tadhg]

Man the Doctor a jerk.

was reading Wikki

And never knew The Doctor basicly help Create the master but saling him out to Death

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Death

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Master- See Early Life

Eh. I just ignore that audio story. It wasn't very good and it's not like it'll really be referenced anywhere else.

[Paul McEnery]

That isn't what happened though, the forest wasn't demolished to build the library, the swarm's eggs were on the trees used to make the paper, that was why there were so many of them. There was nothing to indicate there was a literal forest where the library stood, it was the entire planet. The 'forest' was the assemblage of all the books together.

That moment was a bit of a mess, I thought. Go one way or the other. Moffett couldn't make his mind up, is my take.

[Paul McEnery]

Indeedy so.



Pertwee was better known as a comic actor in things like the Carry On films, but had been trying to get a role that was serious so when he got Who he did play it seriously. Until he started camping it up of course.

Then he left to pursue a serious acting career as Worzel Gummage.

McCoy was known only as a comic appearing in his underpants on Tiswas, or stabbing a fork in his bollocks with Ken Campbell's Roadshow. Who was his first really serious telly role, though as mentioned he had done serious theatre work.

I'm afraid you display your youth here.

He was a regular on Vision On, and all the kids knew him as a clown.

[SPAfreak]

That moment was a bit of a mess, I thought. Go one way or the other. Moffett couldn't make his mind up, is my take.

You could actually make it both I think.

The book in the library were all special editions. Maybe they were made from trees cut down to make space for the library.

[Ontir]

It started well, it ended well, and it gives us wonderful hints of what's to come for the Doctor under Moffatt. Great, great, stuff.

[king mob]

SO let me be the first to predict that somehow Donna is gonna end up leaving cus she finds that guy from cyberspace at least they aint gonna kill her.

Or she's going to be killed by a Dalek made of unsold DVD's of The Catherine Tate Show.

[king mob]

To be fair, now that all the W00T! has worn off, I am a tennsy bit concered about one thing... Moffat's reliance on the Time Loop plot device. He uses it here, he used it in "Blink" and he used it in "Time Crash".

Plus the shadows seems lifted from Blink & there's other examples over both episodes (especially the 'everyone lives' ending) that seems like Moffat just recycled his old scripts.

However he did it well and gave us the best story of this series so far. He also gave us teasers as to how he wants 'his' Doctor to be.


Also, in the first few seconds of the trailer for next week was I the only one thinking about William Shatner in that old "Twilight Zone" episode: "There's something on the wing!"


Advance reviews suggest you're more than a bit right & it's a harmless piece of fluff before Turn Left which is apparently one of RTD's best scripts for Who.

[king mob]

I'm afraid you display your youth here.

He was a regular on Vision On, and all the kids knew him as a clown.

It's been a while since I was called a youth & only posh kids watched Vision On. Us cool kids watched Magpie & listened to Alvin Stardust.

[carabas]

The 'forest of the Vashta Nerada' seems fairly straight forward to me.

In their natural environment, they are arborial, growing their spores in trees.
Books are made of trees, and therefore books contain VN spores. And when you bring millions and millions of books into one place, you get an awfull lot of VN in one place.
They're microscopical. Cellulose is cellulose to them, they can't tell and don't care if it's a tree or a book.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

The 'forest of the Vashta Nerada' seems fairly straight forward to me.

In their natural environment, they are arborial, growing their spores in trees.
Books are made of trees, and therefore books contain VN spores. And when you bring millions and millions of books into one place, you get an awfull lot of VN in one place.
They're microscopical. Cellulose is cellulose to them, they can't tell and don't care if it's a tree or a book.

I couldn't agree more, I'm not sure where the confusion came from at all. I don't even think it was a planet, I think it was a planet-sized library. They flat out stated that the library was their forest because they came in the books and were hatched there, there was nothing to hint that anything had been in its place before hand.

[Ontir]

The 'forest of the Vashta Nerada' seems fairly straight forward to me.

In their natural environment, they are arborial, growing their spores in trees.
Books are made of trees, and therefore books contain VN spores. And when you bring millions and millions of books into one place, you get an awfull lot of VN in one place.
They're microscopical. Cellulose is cellulose to them, they can't tell and don't care if it's a tree or a book.

Right, and the Doctor said they don't attack until they have sufficient numbers. That explains why people go missing in forests and are never found, and why they CAN BE ALL AROUND US AS WE SPEAK (Moffatt loves to mess with us!), but we don't deal with them on an average day. It also explains that while those found in books are generally of a harmless level, bringing all those million million books from thousands of worlds concentrated formerly disparate swarmlings into killer colony.

[Tobias March]

I'm trying to figure out that quote from the Roman episode 'there's something on your back'. What if one of the shadows hangs around with Donna as revenge?

[mattx110]

I'm trying to figure out that quote from the Roman episode 'there's something on your back'. What if one of the shadows hangs around with Donna as revenge?
Revenge for what? I thought the shadows were satisfied at the end of it all. I have no idea what happened to them. I don't remember that well, I guess the Doctor promised them a real forest home?

And also, it went from "they're in every shadow, they are every shadow" to "they're a couple shadows usually found in forests".

[Matt Linton]

I think it was meant as "they're in every shadow, but not always in large enough numbers to be dangerous".

And the deal the Doctor made was that they could have the Library and be left alone, but he gets 24 hours to get everyone out first.

[mattx110]

I think it was meant as "they're in every shadow, but not always in large enough numbers to be dangerous".

And the deal the Doctor made was that they could have the Library and be left alone, but he gets 24 hours to get everyone out first.
Aha. Then what do they eat? dust? Poor Vashtas.

[Ontir]

They didn't seem to suffer too badly in the 100 years since they first achieved critical mass!

[carabas]

My favourite bit was when the VN start to threaten The Doctor.
"I am the Doctor; this is the biggest library in the universe. Look me up".
Upon which they carefully back off.

[mattx110]

My favourite bit was when the VN start to threaten The Doctor.
"I am the Doctor; this is the biggest library in the universe. Look me up".
Upon which they carefully back off.
Based on careful research (watching tv), Moffat's Doctor is the most like McCoy's of the previous incarnations. Maybe there are pieces of other Doctors that I just don't know about or missed, but that's what I'm seeing.


I'd like Tennant to roll a few "r"s though.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Revenge for what? I thought the shadows were satisfied at the end of it all. I have no idea what happened to them. I don't remember that well, I guess the Doctor promised them a real forest home?

And also, it went from "they're in every shadow, they are every shadow" to "they're a couple shadows usually found in forests".

Actually, it remained consistent in both parts, not every shadow, but any shadow. They aren't ALWAYS there, but they could be and you wouldn't know it. The Doctor just left them the library, not a real forest, but left it there for them to dominate and to live in peace.

[king mob]

Rumoured titles for episode 12 are War On Skaro or The Stolen Earth. There's also incredibly tight security regarding the cast list for episode 12 & one name in particular, though the Ben Kingsley/Dennis Hopper rumours are still fun.

[mattx110]

Actually, it remained consistent in both parts, not every shadow, but any shadow. They aren't ALWAYS there, but they could be and you wouldn't know it. The Doctor just left them the library, not a real forest, but left it there for them to dominate and to live in peace.
Ah. I'll watch 'em again. I saw 'em around 3-4 AM, so memory is somewhat iffy. I'm enjoying the consistency of assistants and companions first encounter with the doctor be heavily centered around running. It just seems like the Doctor enjoys redefining the universe to scare the heck out of people. Which is probably a good motivator to run. And I guess it's hard to overestimate the danger of instant speed flesh-eaters.

Also, anyone know if there's been previous Dr. Who explanations for socks going missing in the dryer? I'm sure I remember something in that realm.

[lonewolf23k]

I couldn't agree more, I'm not sure where the confusion came from at all. I don't even think it was a planet, I think it was a planet-sized library. They flat out stated that the library was their forest because they came in the books and were hatched there, there was nothing to hint that anything had been in its place before hand.

Remember how the Doctor mentionned the Vastha Nerada could be found on billions of worlds? What if all those books came from trees from all over the galaxy, which just happened to include a number of Vastha Nerada forests?

Think about it.. Billions of worlds, billions of forests, billions of Vastha Nerada spawning sites...

...No wonder there were so many...

[Ontir]

That's exactly it. On their own worlds, they're mostly harmless, but when the books were collected all together, the Vashta Nerada hatched, forming a super-swarm.

[Spike-X]

If River isn't a future companion, she might be a regeneration of Genny!

Given the hinted-at nature of their future (for him) relationship, that would be all kinds of ick.

[Spike-X]

Doctor Who Episode 10: Midnight (Saturday 14th June, 7:10-7:55)
-
On the planet Midnight, Donna Noble goes sunbathing while the Doctor boards a shuttle bus to the Sapphire Waterfall. However, something dangerous is going with him, signaling its presence with its constant knocking on the side of the bus.


We're being spammed by the BBC now?

[Spike-X]

Yes, I just watched the two episodes back-to-back.

Brilliant.

[Deathstroke]

I liked the idea of a "daughter" of the Doctor running around the universe. The episode was OKAY, but the daughter was a very interesting character to add to the roster.

[king mob]

We're being spammed by the BBC now?

They do have to find new ways to waste our license fee money.

[Ontir]

Given the hinted-at nature of their future (for him) relationship, that would be all kinds of ick.

Having seen part 2, I think she was more a wife, and NOT Genny, but in part 1, it seemed a reasonable possibility.

[Stressfactor]

Having seen part 2, I think she was more a wife

While that was meant to be the interpretation for viewers I think, in the end, the whole 'Time Loop' aspect of the story ruined this a bit. Once we discover that this *is* a loop it means that the Doctor HAD to tell River his name in order to close the loop. He may have WANTED to do so as well but in a way we'll never know.

This is the problem with Time Loop stories -- it essentially robs characters of free will. As River herself says -- at the moment SHE first met the Doctor HE knew what her eventual fate would be. He HAD to tell her his name just as he HAD to give her his sonic screwdriver in order to make sure her fate came out.

On the flip side -- I loved the moment before the Doctor snapped his fingers to open the TARDIS doors. Tennant played it just right and, for a moment there you couldn't be sure if he was going to do it or not. And if the Doctor HAD simply lowered his hand and entered the TARDIS the normal way it would have totally changed the tone of the ending. It was a nice scene and well played.

[LordEd1976]

Rumoured titles for episode 12 are War On Skaro or The Stolen Earth.

The first title can't be right since Skaro was destroyed in an episode of the McCoy Doctor. Unless part of the finale's plot is undoing said event.

[blackphoenix]

*covers ears*
LALALALALALALALALALALALA....
The "space library" episodes haven't aired in America yet! Not readin' them posts! Uhh..what I did read is that a lot of ppl suspect Donna will die. WHY?? I was all prepared to hate Donna. I thought she was gonna be an annoying shrew, but she is really growing on me. The Doctor and Donna's relationship is like that of an older sister taking the piss out of her little brother. She's not all in awe of him like his other groupie-esque companions have been. Tate's performance is often very moving as well: she has a wider range than I expected. I hope she doesn't die. If so, Sally Sparrow and Jenny should step into the TARDIS next.I wonder could the Doctor grow Jen her own TARDIS?

Anybody been reading the Faction Paradox novels? Is it true that Image once produced a comic about it? Do the members of the Faction have their own TARDIS's?(TARDISI??)

[drwho]

*covers ears*
LALALALALALALALALALALALA....
The "space library" episodes haven't aired in America yet! Not readin' them posts! Uhh..what I did read is that a lot of ppl suspect Donna will die. WHY?? I was all prepared to hate Donna. I thought she was gonna be an annoying shrew, but she is really growing on me. The Doctor and Donna's relationship is like that of an older sister taking the piss out of her little brother. She's not all in awe of him like his other groupie-esque companions have been. Tate's performance is often very moving as well: she has a wider range than I expected. I hope she doesn't die. If so, Sally Sparrow and Jenny should step into the TARDIS next.I wonder could the Doctor grow Jen her own TARDIS?

Anybody been reading the Faction Paradox novels? Is it true that Image once produced a comic about it? Do the members of the Faction have their own TARDIS's?(TARDISI??)

You know you do not have to wait that is why I sent you a message.

[Dr. Chaos]

Really glad they decided to let Jenny live in The Doctor's daughter, seemed like such a waste to kill her.

She adds an interesting wrinkle to The Doctor.

[drwho]

Really glad they decided to let Jenny live in The Doctor's daughter, seemed like such a waste to kill her.

She adds an interesting wrinkle to The Doctor.

The only way I would want to see the daughter back is if they go for the doctor generates into an older man look. Just would seem odd having her hanging out with a young doctor. I think she would fit in well with Torchwood though.

[king mob]

The first title can't be right since Skaro was destroyed in an episode of the McCoy Doctor. Unless part of the finale's plot is undoing said event.

It was destroyed several times but it's a title that apparently originated on Outpost Gallifrey while the latter comes from BBC sources.

[drwho]

Really glad they decided to let Jenny live in The Doctor's daughter, seemed like such a waste to kill her.

She adds an interesting wrinkle to The Doctor.

The only way I would want to see the daughter back is if they go for the doctor generates into an older man look. Just would seem odd having her hanging out with a young doctor. I think she would fit in well with Torchwood though.

[mattx110]

While that was meant to be the interpretation for viewers I think, in the end, the whole 'Time Loop' aspect of the story ruined this a bit. Once we discover that this *is* a loop it means that the Doctor HAD to tell River his name in order to close the loop. He may have WANTED to do so as well but in a way we'll never know.

This is the problem with Time Loop stories -- it essentially robs characters of free will. As River herself says -- at the moment SHE first met the Doctor HE knew what her eventual fate would be. He HAD to tell her his name just as he HAD to give her his sonic screwdriver in order to make sure her fate came out.


Hence, the fingersnap. She gave him both one day where he could save everyone, and furthered his relationship with his... time machine. She also had a familiarity and an adventurous thing going that probably turned him on a bit, and helped develop whatever relationshipthey have in his future. There's enough that we can assume he wasn't just thinking "I gotta do this so I can save you later" when with her in her past/his future. Plus, he was apparently emotional when they met, so he did care about her. I'd like him to go build some android bodies for them. Living forever in a computer with only 5 people kinda sucks.
The first title can't be right since Skaro was destroyed in an episode of the McCoy Doctor. Unless part of the finale's plot is undoing said event.
Skaro was back inexplicably by the time the Doctor Who movie came out in 1996. One of the untold adventures (although there's probably a novel to cover that event)

[Dr. Chaos]

The only way I would want to see the daughter back is if they go for the doctor generates into an older man look. Just would seem odd having her hanging out with a young doctor. I think she would fit in well with Torchwood though.
Considering The Doctor is already pretty darn old, I don't need to see him with gray hair to understand and enjoy his relationship with Jenny. Tenant does a great job of portraying The Doctor in that light aswell.

Looking forward to hopefully seeing her again in Series 5 as a companion.

[Ontir]

While that was meant to be the interpretation for viewers I think, in the end, the whole 'Time Loop' aspect of the story ruined this a bit. Once we discover that this *is* a loop it means that the Doctor HAD to tell River his name in order to close the loop. He may have WANTED to do so as well but in a way we'll never know.

This is the problem with Time Loop stories -- it essentially robs characters of free will. As River herself says -- at the moment SHE first met the Doctor HE knew what her eventual fate would be. He HAD to tell her his name just as he HAD to give her his sonic screwdriver in order to make sure her fate came out.

On the flip side -- I loved the moment before the Doctor snapped his fingers to open the TARDIS doors. Tennant played it just right and, for a moment there you couldn't be sure if he was going to do it or not. And if the Doctor HAD simply lowered his hand and entered the TARDIS the normal way it would have totally changed the tone of the ending. It was a nice scene and well played.

I like the time-loop thing, and of course there's always the first time through the loop. The Doctor NOW has to do those things for the reasons you mentioned, BUT that doesn't mean he did them the first time for those reasons. I also imagine a great deal of a Time Lord's life is dealing with the "have to"s. Perhaps that's why so few Time Lords travelled.

The snapping was something that, at first, threw me. The more I thought about it though, it made sense. If the TARDIS is teleptathic, to whatever extent, then it SHOULD respond to the Doctor in this way.

[king mob]

The only way I would want to see the daughter back is if they go for the doctor generates into an older man look. Just would seem odd having her hanging out with a young doctor. I think she would fit in well with Torchwood though.

The original ending saw Jenny die but Moffat vetoed that, which obviously suggests she'll be back at some point when Moffat takes over the programme.

[lonewolf23k]

Got a theory...

I'm theorising the Rose Tyler we've seen this season is actually Bad Wolf, aka Rose the Time Goddess from Series One. Even though she technically only existed at that one point in time/space, she could still reach backwards in time, and traces of her existance (Bad Wolf sightings) continued a few times during Series Two. So there's no reason she couldn't haved reached forward to the current Series' timeframe, for whatever reason...

[ChrisIII]

Anybody seen the Davros picture yet?

[ChrisIII]

Here's basically a description (Would've edited my other post but apparentally you can't change colors in edits:


*Highlight to read*


Although the photo is blurry, the makeup for Davros is very similar to the Doctor's old man makeup from last year's finale, except of course with Davros's trademark lack of eyes. The chair is of course golden this time as we've seen in the trailer, but now it has also has some back support for Davros....otherwise, he's pretty much the same. They seem to be mainly ignoring his 'discarded the rest of his human form' look from Rememberance

[Stressfactor]

I like the time-loop thing, and of course there's always the first time through the loop. The Doctor NOW has to do those things for the reasons you mentioned, BUT that doesn't mean he did them the first time for those reasons. I also imagine a great deal of a Time Lord's life is dealing with the "have to"s. Perhaps that's why so few Time Lords travelled.

The snapping was something that, at first, threw me. The more I thought about it though, it made sense. If the TARDIS is teleptathic, to whatever extent, then it SHOULD respond to the Doctor in this way.

The thing is -- it's a loop -- it doesn't have a begining or an end and since this is a Time Loop there never was a 'first time through'. It was ALWAYS this way and it would ALWAYS BE this way. So there was NEVER a time when what happened in the library DIDN'T color what happened when the Doctor met River for the first time HER relative time.

If the loop had a start or a "first time through" then it wouldn't really be a loop.

But yeah, I'll give Moffat credit for playing with time that way. I just hope that when he's show runner he encourages his writers to play around with time concepts a bit more... things like string theory and paradoxes and other alien species mucking about with time as well.

[Stressfactor]

Here's basically a description (Would've edited my other post but apparentally you can't change colors in edits:


*Highlight to read*


Although the photo is blurry, the makeup for Davros is very similar to the Doctor's old man makeup from last year's finale, except of course with Davros's trademark lack of eyes. The chair is of course golden this time as we've seen in the trailer, but now it has also has some back support for Davros....otherwise, he's pretty much the same. They seem to be mainly ignoring his 'discarded the rest of his human form' look from Rememberance


Actually, sounds a bit like what he looked like in his first ever appearance.

[ChrisIII]

Yeah...spoilers highlight to read


It looks like they're definetly going for a more classic look for Davros without updating him too much.Even the hand he lost in Revelation appears to be back. However, with the photo being blurry and all, it'll be interesting to see the prosthetics in action.

[Omac70]

Rumoured titles for episode 12 are War On Skaro or The Stolen Earth
...Now confirmed as the latter of those (apologies if this has been mentioned already).

As for last Saturday's episode...not so good as SITL, but still easily the second-best episode of the season.

Don't think we'll see River Song again. Alex Kingston's future availability isn't such a problem, as it's obviously something we can dip in and out of. But I think it may get complicated, explaining the mechanics of their relationship (timey wimey stuff and where we are according to the diary) every time she turns up - potentially turning off that part of the audience which is always new. And in a sense, her whole story has been told already - and showing too much of the details may take it from "intriguing" to "mundane".

We don't really need to know for sure that she's his wife. The hints have gone far enough to suggest that's the case (and therefore interest us), without telling us in so many words and making the whole thing feel "ordinary". It's like The Doctor's name - it's fascinating to speculate on, but telling us what it actually is would be a real mistake.

I'm still thinking that Moffat will create that "gap" when he starts, placing River Song and all sorts of interesting stuff in it... More often than not, not seeing stuff makes it much more fascinating.

[king mob]

Anybody seen the Davros picture yet?

Saw it at lunch. Looks quite good & rather encouraging.

[king mob]

Episode 12's synopsis. Very, very spoiler filled.

Earth's greatest heroes assemble in a time of dire need, in tonight's penultimate episode in this series of Russell T Davies's Bafta Award-winning time-travelling drama. But can the Doctor's secret army defeat the might of the new Dalek Empire?

With battles on the streets and in the skies, the Doctor and Donna must brave the Shadow Proclamation to find out the truth. However, a fearsome old enemy waits in the shadows...

[Green Goblin]

Me and my family were very disappointed in last week episode and we are big doctor who fans , we were expecting big things from Riversong and we were not paid off, also we din't like the genally plot after the week's before epsiode. Anywhere I can not wait for three weeks time for the finale.

[ChrisIII]

Some pictures from "Turn Left" have surfaced. Highlight to read:


Of course we have Rose and Donna, but also UNIT appears.

[Ontir]

Me and my family were very disappointed in last week episode and we are big doctor who fans , we were expecting big things from River[ S]ong and we were not paid off, also we din't like the genally plot after the week's before epsiode. Anywhere I can not wait for three weeks time for the finale.

Paid off?

Moffatt just introduced a MAJOR character to the Whoniverse. We've only seen the humblest beginnings of her. What we found out about her is enough to fuel the series for years!

[Omac70]

Anybody seen the Davros picture yet?

There's a couple doing the rounds now.

Perhaps easiest for me just to link to this (http://www.gallifrey5forum.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2333) to show you the hi-res one (people avoiding spoilers - don't click!)

[Ontir]

VERY NICE!

If the spoilers are correct, then it also makes me happy that they're continuing to take the Master at his name, and truly make him a master of evil!

[Popgun]

Despite the cameo from the Queen in her slippers in Voyage Of The Damned, RTD has just been awarded an OBE in the Birthday Honours.

[Omac70]

VERY NICE!

If the spoilers are correct, then it also makes me happy that they're continuing to take the Master at his name, and truly make him a master of evil!

Certainly excites my Inner Fanboy. And...

...I was very disappointed that they killed him off in the finale last year. After that magnificent build-up in Utopia, he's dead and buried two episodes later! The character will always come back of course, but it still feels like a stupid thing to do. And of course, it's compunded by the fact that it looked like we'd never see Simm's version again.

I wasn't 100% happy with him - more to do with the writing, I think - but to get rid of him so soon... An exciting young actor perfectly cast as an opposite to the exciting young actor we have already, and they barely had any screen time together! A waste in so many respects. So I hope these rumours are true.

As for the other "big bad"...looking pretty good.

[ZT4]

Me and my family were very disappointed in last week episode and we are big doctor who fans , we were expecting big things from Riversong and we were not paid off

That's because we Brits like to make people THINK.

[Cyke]

Paid off?

Moffatt just introduced a MAJOR character to the Whoniverse. We've only seen the humblest beginnings of her. What we found out about her is enough to fuel the series for years!

So very true. Let's have a quick rundown of this supposed "letdown" of River Song:

-Foreshadowing of the Doctor's future
-a greater understanding of Wibbly Wobbly, Timey Wimey
-enhancement of the Doctor's legend
-a brief glimpse into Donna's future as a companion
-expansion of the Doctor's family
-a hint of, quite possibly, the greatest companion ever
-the Doctor coming to terms with his impact in the grand scheme of time and space
-INTENSE character growth for the Doctor thanks to River. Hey, I dare anyone to try and add development to a character that's been around for 40+ years
-for that matter, deepening the mystery of the Doctor, again something that's hard to do after 40+ years

Half that list would be enough for one season of any show. Moffat got that all done in two episodes. That's the importance of good, arc-based writing: lay down a firm and strong foundation that will last for years.

[Green Goblin]

Just wached this weeks this doctor who it sure confused the hell out of me as to what exacly was going on , oh well nexts week one looks really good.

[king mob]

Excellent episode tonight & a pleasing diversion from RTD's normal theme on Who that every human is basically decent. In fact it felt more like older RTD work in places but that may have to do with Lesley Sharp's guest appearance. Well written, well acted & directed with a genuinely clever idea rather than a lazy one presented in a half arsed way.

Next week looks good. UNIT, Billie Piper & Bernard Cribbins looking at the end of everything.

[lonewolf23k]

One thing I liked was that Strackman Lux turned out not to be a greedy corporate bastard, but just a man concerned about the welfare of a family member. After three seasons' worth of CEOs willing to do horrible things for profit, it was nice to see at least one wealthy businessman who's primary concern wasn't his wallet.

[ZT4]

I loved that the enemy has no name, no face, no motivation known to any of the characters, and The Doctor without a mystery to solve became more and more helpless to the point he was completly at the mercy of ranting, paranoid and backstabbing human beings who hours ago had been friends and good company.

How the episode ended was delightful...the friends had all been shattered, some were trying to "kiss up" to The Doctor apologising, we dont know if the Professor will apologise to his "average" colleauge, and what's more unfortunate, the person that we usually take for granted dies a nameless hero. Find it ironic someone who sowed the seeds of distrust for The Doctor was the only one to think on her feet and took immediate action. IMMEDIATE action, where as the others argued and struggled with Sharp and later The Doctor.

[Cyke]

I thought Jethro would make for a somewhat decent companion. He was the only one who really noticed things! But yes, he did eventually switch.

How the hell does the Doctor keep running into these situations? Space is big, time is bigger! :)


Anyway, I was seriously creeped out for the first half, then angry at the second half. But that's a good thing, because this anger was one designed to provoke the viewer. I kept thinking to myself, "Geeze, I'd get lost in the mob mentality, too."


I'd highly, highly recommend to anyone to read/watch Twelve Angry Men. This episode was very reminiscient of that play, and it's one of my all time favorites. Of course, the only difference is, no entity. However, there's still a lot of repetition! Maybe repetition has a way of getting people, I dunno, worked up?


I kept thinking that the entity, though, was a reflection. After all, planet of diamonds.


Oh, and Jethro = hot. This series has a lot of yummy boys, eh?

One more thought: funny how the Doctor's legend played out this time. The writing went from honoring to fearing it to outright questioning it. Each episode this series has just kept hammering and hammering how the Doctor's myth was high and godlike and powerful. This episode, however, had a huge amount of cynicism and pessimism towards that legend, which really helps flesh out just what makes the Doctor so good. A masterful move, I think.

[Ontir]

A very good ep!

Jethro wasn't the only one who noticed things, Dee Dee Blasco was pretty much on the spot through the whole thing. She had a more "Leela" bent to her, but she knew what was going on. Davies did a great job with a very taught and suspenseful tale.

[Spike-X]

Excellent episode tonight & a pleasing diversion from RTD's normal theme on Who that every human is basically decent.

Yeah, that's one thing that really annoys me about his writing; the constant blatant pandering to the audience of, "Ooh, aren't normal people wonderful? And they're everywhere, just like us! How reassuring!"

I don't watch Doctor Who to see normal people, thanks.

[Ontir]

I don't think it's Davies' theme, rather it's the Doctor's. He never calls aliens monsters, because he doesn't see them that way. We're no less alien than they are, at least to a Time Lord, and he sees the great and positive potential in all - except the Daleks - but even with them, he's made efforts, even post-Time War.

[Captain_Neutron]

This was a really interesting episode, and a pleasant deviation from RTD's norm. While I was left a little confused at the end, I was happy that they didn't explain the creature or its methods.

The scary thing was, the mob were actually right ( regardless of the talk of the creature influencing them ) and I'd be thinking the same thing in their situation. They had no idea what was going on, so the safest thing to do was toss the creature out the airlock.

Not only that, but if they'd have done it when they first wanted to, there'd probably be one less innocent person dead at the end of the episode.
I wonder if it was their pragmatism or their quickness to turn on him that upset the Doctor more at the end of the episode.

[Cyke]

This was a really interesting episode, and a pleasant deviation from RTD's norm. While I was left a little confused at the end, I was happy that they didn't explain the creature or its methods.

The scary thing was, the mob were actually right ( regardless of the talk of the creature influencing them ) and I'd be thinking the same thing in their situation. They had no idea what was going on, so the safest thing to do was toss the creature out the airlock.

Not only that, but if they'd have done it when they first wanted to, there'd probably be one less innocent person dead at the end of the episode.
I wonder if it was their pragmatism or their quickness to turn on him that upset the Doctor more at the end of the episode.

Oh, I dunno if they were actually right, though. Their paranoia did heighten the tension to the point where they endangered themselves, I think. I'm pretty sure the Doctor kept asking everyone to simply shut up so that he could both study the entity and keep everyone from powering it up. Patience might have prevented any deaths aside from the first two.

[drwho]

Seems like this years theme is everyone gets killed except the doctor. lol A bunch of regular characters end up saving him.

[IamtheRock3]

I loved that the enemy has no name, no face, no motivation known to any of the characters, and The Doctor without a mystery to solve became more and more helpless to the point he was completly at the mercy of ranting, paranoid and backstabbing human beings who hours ago had been friends and good company.

How the episode ended was delightful...the friends had all been shattered, some were trying to "kiss up" to The Doctor apologising, we dont know if the Professor will apologise to his "average" colleauge, and what's more unfortunate, the person that we usually take for granted dies a nameless hero. Find it ironic someone who sowed the seeds of distrust for The Doctor was the only one to think on her feet and took immediate action. IMMEDIATE action, where as the others argued and struggled with Sharp and later The Doctor.


What odd is in the way they were right

if they chuck that lady out of the ship, there be one less death

[Captain_Neutron]

Oh, I dunno if they were actually right, though. Their paranoia did heighten the tension to the point where they endangered themselves, I think. I'm pretty sure the Doctor kept asking everyone to simply shut up so that he could both study the entity and keep everyone from powering it up. Patience might have prevented any deaths aside from the first two.

I'd still say they were right and the Doctor ended up wrong. He thought, as the self-proclaimed cleverest man in the room, that he could understand what the creature was, what it wanted, and bargain with it. He failed pretty badly and he put them all in more danger in the process.

I think the passengers, for all their hysteria, were actually pretty sensible once they realised that Sky wasn't merely mentally ill and had been possessed.
Sometimes the smartest thing you can do with a space monster is to just blow it out the airlock and ask questions later.

[IamtheRock3]

Yeah, that's one thing that really annoys me about his writing; the constant blatant pandering to the audience of, "Ooh, aren't normal people wonderful? And they're everywhere, just like us! How reassuring!"

I don't watch Doctor Who to see normal people, thanks.

Dont know they showed jerky humans before With him meeting Torchwood, and the president blowing up the Plane

not to many inbetween bad and good though

Thing with the doctor is he starts out by giving all people or aliens a huge benifit of the doubt, and second or third changes

But ounce he decidedes to take you down he does it pretty hard and with little mercy

Like the one where he turn Human, and took a JACK BAURER type punishments on them

I just started watching the doctor when it came on Sci fi, so was use to nice doctor. But when that episode happen I was "OH %hit...that was a horrid punishment". Scared me a bit.

[IamtheRock3]

I'd still say they were right and the Doctor ended up wrong. He thought, as the self-proclaimed cleverest man in the room, that he could understand what the creature was, what it wanted, and bargain with it. He failed pretty badly and he put them all in more danger in the process.

I think the passengers, for all their hysteria, were actually pretty sensible once they realised that Sky wasn't merely mentally ill and had been possessed.
Sometimes the smartest thing you can do with a space monster is to just blow it out the airlock and ask questions later.

Finnaly someone who loves angry mobs as much as I do

[Cyke]

I'd still say they were right and the Doctor ended up wrong. He thought, as the self-proclaimed cleverest man in the room, that he could understand what the creature was, what it wanted, and bargain with it. He failed pretty badly and he put them all in more danger in the process.

I think the passengers, for all their hysteria, were actually pretty sensible once they realised that Sky wasn't merely mentally ill and had been possessed.
Sometimes the smartest thing you can do with a space monster is to just blow it out the airlock and ask questions later.

He was certainly wrong about some things: like, for a change, a non-villain questioned the Doctor's "automatic" authority, and that his curiosity was indeed placing them in danger. But to the Doctor, alien life is as equal and as valuable as human life, and prior to the mass hysteria, the entity was mysterious, but it wasn't outright hostile (aside from killing the crew). Once the idea of hurling Sky out of the tank was bandied about, the story took a drastic turn for the worse (as far as the passengers go).

It got to the point where the passengers cared more about fighting than helping each other out, as mob mentalities tend to go. Any one of them could have been declared "right," just as much as any one of them could have been a killer of two lives.

As such, I think there's good evidence that all the passengers and the hostess would have been okay had they just stopped bickering for thirty minutes. Possessed Sky couldn't even walk until the Doctor was heated up by the others and approached her to try and counter the mob mentality. Jethro's mom at the end made a sorely half-assed attempt to try and defend her own yelling and screaming, and she knew it was pure BS. Likewise, the dad now has to live with the guilt that he came very close to being an executioner, right or wrong about anything. Only 30 minutes ago, that executioner was laughing it up with the Doctor.

If humanity's first instinct in meeting new lifeforms is to kill it, then we're the monsters. Even worse if we're the ones provoking it. At least, that's the impression I get from years of Star Trek and Doctor Who... (Adipose, anyone?)

[IamtheRock3]

yea but killing two passenger isnt exactly a small aside

[Cyke]

yea but killing two passenger isnt exactly a small aside

No, it's not a small aside, and it's a very justifiable reason to be scared. But it's like encountering an unknown snake or shark for the first time ever, too. Are they killing out of malice or out of nature? If it's out of malice, then yeah, out the airlock you go. If it's out of nature, though, then scientists still try to capture it. The Doctor is a scientist, after all.

That's the thing about the Doctor, too. Sometimes his pursuit of knowledge gets people killed, something I pointed out a few posts up. It doesn't make the Doctor right by any means, but it does help define his character.

[mattx110]

He was trapped in a box where the cleverest thing he could do is turn on lights that the back-up generator would have brought up in a few minutes anyway.

That sucks for someone who a week earlier could mention his title and a race of flesh-eating aliens would back down.

[Stressfactor]

ell despite my fears that this was going to end up being a riff on the William Shatner "Twighlight Zone" episode it ended up being more of a riff on Alfred Hitchcock's "Lifeboat" -- a much better bit of source material to do a sci-fi riff on.

Tennant gave a good performance -- it was interesting and actually rather frightening to see a creature so powerful that it could take over the Doctor's mind and Tennant really sold it with the constant trembling while he was possessed to indicate the Doctor trying to fight the control but unable to beat it.

It is also noteable that the Doctor is not blameless in all of this. The people may be guilty of paranoia but the Doctor himself if guilty of arrogance and pride. Yes, he is a mind-bashingly intelligent alien but he lords it over the others on more than one occasion as he comes close to bragging about how "clever" he is... how he's the most clever mind in the room. It is also his arrogance that he can handle this situation, that no matter what this alien presence is or what it wants he can deal with it. It is this arrogance that allows the presence to take his mind and nearly causes his downfall.

One thing that bugged me a little bit though -- so far this season we've seen two episodes set in the future on human colonized worlds and in both cases nearly everyone was dressed in rather 21st century looking clothes. Jethro could have been an emo-goth-punk kid right off the streets of London today. I really think the costuming department could do something to make the clothing look at least a little bit ahead of the curve -- of at least like futuristic reinterpretations of 21st century clothes.

But since that's all I have to rant about it's a small thing.

[Ontir]

That's what I thought was so interesting. He's intent on telling them how clever his is, but terrified to tell them why - he's a Time Lord. Since Rose left, the mystery of the Doctor's name has been further in the background, but in the last few eps, it's come up front again. I'm eager to know what it is, and why he's so resistant to tell it to anyone.

[Cthulhudrew]

He was certainly wrong about some things: like, for a change, a non-villain questioned the Doctor's "automatic" authority, and that his curiosity was indeed placing them in danger.

I don't see how the Doctor's curiosity was putting anyone in danger in this episode. Possibly in other scenarios, but not this one.

[Cthulhudrew]

He was trapped in a box where the cleverest thing he could do is turn on lights that the back-up generator would have brought up in a few minutes anyway.

That sucks for someone who a week earlier could mention his title and a race of flesh-eating aliens would back down.

Couldn't agree more. That was the only disappointment about this episode for me- that the protagonist played absolutely no part in eliminating the antagonist.

[lonewolf23k]

One thing that bugged me a little bit though -- so far this season we've seen two episodes set in the future on human colonized worlds and in both cases nearly everyone was dressed in rather 21st century looking clothes. Jethro could have been an emo-goth-punk kid right off the streets of London today. I really think the costuming department could do something to make the clothing look at least a little bit ahead of the curve -- of at least like futuristic reinterpretations of 21st century clothes.

But since that's all I have to rant about it's a small thing.

Well, we know that in the future era where the Doctor picked up K-9 Mk1, Disco makes a come-back, judging from the styles there. Although I do agree they could've mixed it up cheaply enough, just by sticking a few doodads here and there on the outfits. Heck, Futurama's gotten a lot of mileage just sticking shoulder thingies on nearly every outfit...

[lonewolf23k]

Couldn't agree more. That was the only disappointment about this episode for me- that the protagonist played absolutely no part in eliminating the antagonist.

Actually, I enjoyed that part, if only because for the first time this season, I found myself worried for the Doctor. This was the first time he actually seemed helpless, which definetly humanized him for me.

[IamtheRock3]

interesting thing is the name thing

It furthered showed telling His name is important cause he refuse to say his real name and opted fro the extreme fake sounding name John Smith

It was a situation where saying his name could of helped

[Ontir]

Or it could've been the absolute worst thing in the universe.

Maybe his name is "Satan."

[mattx110]

That's what I thought was so interesting. He's intent on telling them how clever his is, but terrified to tell them why - he's a Time Lord. Since Rose left, the mystery of the Doctor's name has been further in the background, but in the last few eps, it's come up front again. I'm eager to know what it is, and why he's so resistant to tell it to anyone.

Couldn't agree more. That was the only disappointment about this episode for me- that the protagonist played absolutely no part in eliminating the antagonist.
I meant it sucked for The Doctor. I liked it after a season gaining the whole "snap" thing. Every once in a while, losing a peg or two is OK.

Although, the first season (new first season), Rose had to save him (and the world), and Donna's been doing some of that (tossing the necklace to kill the big wasp, when the doctor was trying to reason with it).

So, we've gone from suicidal Doctor, to helpless Doctor.

And his name probably is "John Smith" and he's the reason it's such a common name or something. Thinking of a reason why a name is so secret is a lot harder than telling us it's a secret, although I'm pretty sure Moffat has a giant 30 page excel spreadsheet and visual diagram of 300 spots in the space-time continuum explaining why the Doctor's name being hidden is vital to the universe. It should be something related to Earth, but since we've already seen Earth being formed by aliens from when time was young, it's gotta be something more important than that, and also have some ancient Gallifrey signifigance, that doesn't make the Doctor a god, because that would suck, but makes him part of something related to a higher consciousness. I'll let the writers sort it out.

Umm, i sorta responded to both posts in one, so, don't think i'm nuts and quoting randomly. It's just the way my logic trail went.

[IamtheRock3]

maybe he didnt say his name to the people cause it would sound like an insult

like his first name

YOURRAY


last name

Doucebag

[Ontir]

Like the line from Scenes From the Class Struggles in Beverly Hills:

"Would you believe I've got your name tattooed on my ass?"

Later, when we see his ass, it's got a box with the words "Your Name" tattooed within it!

[king mob]

One thing that bugged me a little bit though -- so far this season we've seen two episodes set in the future on human colonized worlds and in both cases nearly everyone was dressed in rather 21st century looking clothes. Jethro could have been an emo-goth-punk kid right off the streets of London today. I really think the costuming department could do something to make the clothing look at least a little bit ahead of the curve -- of at least like futuristic reinterpretations of 21st century clothes.


Well this was the money saving episode but it did just look like they popped down to Primark to get the costumes this week.

[Spike-X]

Maybe his name is "Satan."

Satan Hitler!

[Popgun]

Satan Hitler!

I went to school with Satan Hitler. Nice kid.

[Stressfactor]

And his name probably is "John Smith" and he's the reason it's such a common name or something.

Well, it was Jamie who gave the Doctor the alias "John Smith" way back in the Second Doctor's tenure ("The Wheel in Space"). Funny thing is -- the Doctor didn't really like it much at the time but has managed to keep using it.....

As for the Doctor's "real name" -- well, if asked Adrew Cartmel, he's say it was "The Other"....:biggrin:

The program got in trouble because it eventually revealed too many of the Doctor's secrets and then writers had to go and invent some new ones so I'd rather they go ahead and keep some things unknown. Besides, if everyone knew the Doctor's name they wouldn't have any real reason to call him "The Doctor".

They didn't reveal MacGyver's first name until the last season of that series so I wouldn't have any problems with "Doctor Who" doing the same... wait until the show is really, really, REALLY going to die its forever death then go out with a bang -- last episode reveal the Doctor's name, reveal his real history -- the real reasons he left Gallifrey, who his first wife was, who Susan's mother or father was -- the whole ball of wax.

[Matt Linton]

He was trapped in a box where the cleverest thing he could do is turn on lights that the back-up generator would have brought up in a few minutes anyway.

That sucks for someone who a week earlier could mention his title and a race of flesh-eating aliens would back down.

Yeah, I don't know how intentional that was, but it was a brilliant bit of reversal. Listening to the podcast for Forest of the Dead, Moffat, Tennant, and Davies talk about how, at the end of the day, the Doctor really doesn't have much power. In a lot of ways he's all talk, and and he's obviously a bit brilliant and determined, but that's about it. Suddenly throwing him into a situation where none of that helped built into a great "oh shit..." moment.

[Ontir]

Satan Hitler!

"Lucifer" means "Bringer of light." When I found that out, it seemed a great name for a child. Of course you have to give that child a lighter, teach him to flick it on, asking, "Want a light?!?" :evilsmile:

[drwho]

Has the Riversong actress appeared in any other shows?

[king mob]

Has the Riversong actress appeared in any other shows?

Alex Kingston should be familiar to America viewers from ER, plus British viewers will recognise not only from that but stuff like Moll Flanders & The Bill.

[Ontir]

I've heard of, but not see the Bill, which if my Brit slang is correct, has something to do with the Police? I loved her version of Moll Flanders, though. There was a big-studio cinema version done in the states around the same time, my ex had seen that, and when we compared notes, he was stunned to find how different the story in Kingston's version was from the H'wood-ed thing he saw.

[SPAfreak]

Has the Riversong actress appeared in any other shows?

The others have mentioned some shows so I'll just mention the movie Croupier with Clive Owen.

[Ontir]

I'd forgotten her in Croupier, I LOVED that movie!

[Cyke]

I don't see how the Doctor's curiosity was putting anyone in danger in this episode. Possibly in other scenarios, but not this one.

Actually, if you'll note, the entity was gaining more strength the more people were talking to it. The Doctor talked the most to it until it could gain a way to spring a trap, and for almost the entire time the Doctor was talking to it, it was out of curiosity and his attempts to understand the situation.

A major point of the episode, after all, was about how the Doctor's greatest strengths were turned against him. His curiosity is one, his compassion is another, and the latter is what got him close enough to fall for the trap.

Couldn't agree more. That was the only disappointment about this episode for me- that the protagonist played absolutely no part in eliminating the antagonist.

Sort of disagree with this, too. The Doctor's true voice was what tipped off the Hostess (who was, after all, the first to turn on the Doctor) to save the day thanks to subtle hints. As well, RTD's Doctors have a tendency to urge those around them to rise above themselves, ie Rose and Mickey, who have both saved the day on a few occasions.

As well, the protagonist very much made the others feel like utter jerks for doing what they thought was right. That in itself is a tad rare.

[mattx110]

"Lucifer" means "Bringer of light." When I found that out, it seemed a great name for a child. Of course you have to give that child a lighter, teach him to flick it on, asking, "Want a light?!?" :evilsmile:
Which is why Lucy Fur is an adorable name for a cat.

[lonewolf23k]

As well, the protagonist very much made the others feel like utter jerks for doing what they thought was right. That in itself is a tad rare.

Which only felt worst for them, considering they spent the first half of the episode becoming fast friends thanks to the Doctor's turning off of the "entertainment" and encouraging everyone to chat.

Those guys must've felt like real @$$3$ afterwards...

[ZT4]

Who's the idiot that decided to spoil the Davros image on the main news page?

Thank god I turned my gaze away when I recognised a glimpse of it. That stuff should not be getting out close to transmission.

[drwho]

Who's the idiot that decided to spoil the Davros image on the main news page?

Thank god I turned my gaze away when I recognised a glimpse of it. That stuff should not be getting out close to transmission.

Lol he has always looked like that.

[Matt Linton]

I don't go to the CBR mainpage anymore, and I rarely go to Newsarama's main page for just that reason.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Who's the idiot that decided to spoil the Davros image on the main news page?

Thank god I turned my gaze away when I recognised a glimpse of it. That stuff should not be getting out close to transmission.

Blame the BBC, those aren't leaked from anyone, those are official pics. How is it idiotic for entertainment news to be reported on, and graphics to be used at a comic/pop culture news source? I hate spoilers too, but if there are spoilers in an episode description, solicitation or press release, it isn't anyone but those releasing the info's fault, IMHO.

[lonewolf23k]

Blame the BBC, those aren't leaked from anyone, those are official pics. How is it idiotic for entertainment news to be reported on, and graphics to be used at a comic/pop culture news source? I hate spoilers too, but if there are spoilers in an episode description, solicitation or press release, it isn't anyone but those releasing the info's fault, IMHO.

They poked fun about it in a BBC comedy show once, where they had the Doctor resolve a plotline within minutes, much to Rose's surprise. Turns out he'd seen all the online previews, so he knew what was going to happen.. :biggrin:

[Cyke]

Lol he has always looked like that.

Um, I don't think he's questioning how Davros looks like, just the fact that he's been revealed at all for this series.

Anyway, I have this sneaking suspicion that the Davros reveal was intentional so as to hide the true surprise of the year.

[Ontir]

Which is why Lucy Fur is an adorable name for a cat.

If "Lucy Fur" is anything like my cousin Sharon's now dead, but not soon enough, EVIL siamese, "Sinbad," is probably an apt name!

[mattx110]

Um, I don't think he's questioning how Davros looks like, just the fact that he's been revealed at all for this series.

Anyway, I have this sneaking suspicion that the Davros reveal was intentional so as to hide the true surprise of the year.
Yes, Rose is coming back.


Ha!

[Green Goblin]

I have a question about the old series of Dr who how does Darvos know that the Doctor is a Time Lord by the time of resection of the Daleks (sorry about spelling) I'm pretty sure the Doctor doesn't tell him in Destiny and the only way I can think of is when Darvos forced the information out of him by tortureing Harry and Sarah what do you think.

[ZT4]

Lol he has always looked like that.

"lulz, youz misszzd teh pointz":rolleyes:

Nobody knew what kind of form he'd take under the current series until the spoiler-riffic muppet decided to make it apparant ahead of transmission. Good enough for you Yanks since we'll have long aired it, but it HASNT aired in the UK yet, and you get Brits visiting here.

Priorities people.

I have a question about the old series of Dr who how does Darvos know that the Doctor is a Time Lord by the time of resection of the Daleks (sorry about spelling) I'm pretty sure the Doctor doesn't tell him in Destiny and the only way I can think of is when Darvos forced the information out of him by tortureing Harry and Sarah what do you think.

The fact The Daleks themselves were creating duplicates of The Doctor and his companions to infiltrate Gallifrey in the same serial would obviously have gotten to him since he was bringing an army of troopers under his control.

[mattx110]

I have a question about the old series of Dr who how does Darvos know that the Doctor is a Time Lord by the time of resection of the Daleks (sorry about spelling) I'm pretty sure the Doctor doesn't tell him in Destiny and the only way I can think of is when Darvos forced the information out of him by tortureing Harry and Sarah what do you think.
Well, he tortures the Doctor during "Genesis", which is the first Dalek story (chronologically, not umm... the actual first). He might've asked, I don't remember.

[Ontir]

If not directly, once the Daleks developed time-travel tech, they naturally came into direct conflict with Gallifrey, and their constant battles with the Doctor combined, may have given them their answer.

[king mob]

"lulz, youz misszzd teh pointz":rolleyes:

Nobody knew what kind of form he'd take under the current series until the spoiler-riffic muppet decided to make it apparant ahead of transmission. Good enough for you Yanks since we'll have long aired it, but it HASNT aired in the UK yet, and you get Brits visiting here.

Priorities people.


The BBC released the images because of the bootleg ones circulating last week that people had taken from preview discs of The Stolen Earth. Plus Davros had already appeared in trailers, though he was partially hidden in shadow, so realistically the BBC have been forced to reveal Davros earlier than they probably wanted seeing as they're focusing on Billie Piper's return this week.

[king mob]

More news & gossip regarding the last episodes.

Donna, Martha, Rose, Jack, Ianto, Gwen, Sarah Jane AND the SJ kids, Harriet Jones, Davros, Judoon and 1000s of Daleks are in Episode 12. All of them joined by Mickey, Jackie, K9 & the real baddie in the last episode.

[drwho]

More news & gossip regarding the last episodes.

Donna, Martha, Rose, Jack, Ianto, Gwen, Sarah Jane AND the SJ kids, Harriet Jones, Davros, Judoon and 1000s of Daleks are in Episode 12. All of them joined by Mickey, Jackie, K9 & the real baddie in the last episode.

Wow that just sounds insane and way too much for one episode. lol I will try not to get my hopes up. Can't picture anything really happening in an episode where all those characters would be cluttering up space. Also interesting speculation and spoiler about the final episode in lying in the gutters.

[Ontir]

Sounds pretty frikkin cool!!!

[king mob]

Wow that just sounds insane and way too much for one episode. lol I will try not to get my hopes up. Can't picture anything really happening in an episode where all those characters would be cluttering up space. Also interesting speculation and spoiler about the final episode in lying in the gutters.

I'm not sure if the last episode will be extended as last year's was, but the reports from Cardiff suggest that The Stolen Earth is non stop, though I'd be a tad disapointed if certain characters were reduced to a one sentence cameo.

Still, we'll see soon enough. I only hope RTD doesn't balls it up as he did last year.

[mattx110]

I'm not sure if the last episode will be extended as last year's was, but the reports from Cardiff suggest that The Stolen Earth is non stop, though I'd be a tad disapointed if certain characters were reduced to a one sentence cameo.

Still, we'll see soon enough. I only hope RTD doesn't balls it up as he did last year.
Hey, last years second to last episode was incredibly awesome.

He just needs to do two of those in a row, right?

meanwhile

K-9!!!!!!!!!

[Ontir]

I only hope RTD doesn't balls it up as he did last year.

Que? :eek:

[ZT4]

RTD didnt balls it up last year. LOTTL was a masterpeice, even Moffat likes it.

[king mob]

RTD didnt balls it up last year. LOTTL was a masterpeice, even Moffat likes it.

Moffat might like it but it doesn't make it good or a masterpiece. If Gollum Doctor wasn't a bad enough idea, (which it was) Tinkerbell Doctor was just bollocks & RTD's increasingly old habit of throwing in a deux ex machina to sort everything out. Had he spent more than a day on the script we might have had a more satidfying climax to what had been a fantastic end to the last series.

If Davies has the Tardis flying round the world to turn back time at the end of this series in order to sort everything out then I'm eating my Who DVD's.

[Ontir]

I think turning the Master's means of control against him was pretty cool.

This time, the Master truly was a Master, and that was a pleasant change from the fop who was generally pretty easily disposed of by the Doctor.

I found it very satidfying!

[Stressfactor]

meanwhile

K-9!!!!!!!!!

Yay! I'm not alone! There seem to be so many who hate the character. The only question is.... how long can he stay away from that black hole before it goes all critical?

[Ontir]

You hate K-9?!?!?!?

How is this possible?

[Stressfactor]

You hate K-9?!?!?!?

How is this possible?

No,no,no,no... I LOVE K-9! I meant that I feel alone in my love because so many others I've run into hate him with a passion or consider him an annoyance at best.

[Ontir]

I LOOOOOOOVE K-9!!!

I wrote a treatment for a Who movie, prior to the re-launch of the show. It was a sort of parallel universe Who, because I didn't want to step on any continuity, as the American Who movie had done. In it, K-9 is in the TARDIS from the start. The one thing I wanted to do, and I think they should do this on the show, is upgrade him from a tin dog, to using a real dog, a more life-like synthesis, and CGI-ing the voice. He's still got the laser nose though!

[ZT4]

Moffat might like it but it doesn't make it good or a masterpiece.

He said it evoked the spirit of Doctor Who, and sometimes that's all you need.

Yes, it's got an offensive du ex machina ending, but that's only if you allow it to gnaw at you. Otherwise it's just fun good vs evil. The only complain I had about LOTTL is that the confrontation on the cliff didnt go anywhere

[blackphoenix]

Granted, that bit where the Doctor went all sparkly was a bit twee, but I did rather enjoy last year's finale. The bit where the Master died and the Doctor screamed with impotent rage was quite moving.

They do seem intent on jamming the entire(current) Who universe into that episode, don't they? I take it that if every single one of them has a speaking part, it will be complete cacaphony! I do hope K-9 has finally sealed that sodding black hole so he can rejoin Sarah Jane and her kids this season! I have rather a soft spot for that "daft metal dog."

Just wanted to mention that I finally picked up Remembrance of the Daleks on DVD last night and I loved it to bits! The Seventh Doctor was...fantastic:biggrin: I wish they hadn't canceled the series...I would have loved to see where he and Ace would have gone. Speaking of Ace, Sophie Aldred was pure cuteness on two wheels! I loved the way she kept calling the Doctor "professor," and how she was always in the thick of the action with explosives and baseball bats and what not. She could give Rose a run for her money in the ballsy department. I wish she'd come back in the new series so we'd see where she's been.

I also picked up the Lost In Time two pack....totally heartbreaking how so many early episodes are completely lost with only a few scant scenes remaining!:frown: Sorry, something in my eye..I need to be alone for a minute.

[ChrisIII]

BlackPheonix, the story of the Seventh Doctor and Ace continues in the "New Adventures" novels by Virgin (Published 1991-1997). While the canon status of the novels are up for debate, they are usually well-written, and some of the writers have worked on the new show, such as Paul Cornell, Matthew Jones, and of course, Russel T. Davies (Well, he only wrote one novel...). There's also novels by guys who wrote on the classic show such as Terrance Dicks and Andrew Cartmel. The novels largely are more 'adult' than the show, and are mostly targeted at fans, though. Also don't expect to find any Dalek novels (Although there are a few mediocre ones in the BBC line) in this line, as at this time the Nation estate wasn't allowing their use. "Human Nature" BTW, was adapted from a NA novel.


The storyline of the NAs basically has the Doctor becoming more darker and detached, and there's a lot of stuff revealed or implied about his mysterious origins (As the TV show was going in that direction at the time). Towards the end of the novel line, we see more references to the TV movie, as well.


There are also a few Seventh Doctor novels in the BBC books line, but they are largely seperate in tone from the NAs.

The NAs are out of print but can be found in most online stores and Ebay, although some are quite rare and very expensive. www.drwhoguide.com has an extensive summary of every NA, though.

[ZT4]

I count the "Missing Adventures" that are written by Mike Tucker and Dave Perry, they "fit" the classic Doctor/Ace seasons and are intended to be a "complete season", though they called it the "season 27" atc.

[ChrisIII]

^Some of the BBC novels actually were based on story ideas for Season 27-especially "Matrix" (Which features the return of the Valeyard) and Illegal Alien (Cybermen).

[king mob]

He said it evoked the spirit of Doctor Who, and sometimes that's all you need.

Yes, it's got an offensive du ex machina ending, but that's only if you allow it to gnaw at you. Otherwise it's just fun good vs evil. The only complain I had about LOTTL is that the confrontation on the cliff didnt go anywhere


You also need a script that's had more than five minutes spent on it. Spirit is fine but when you're watching something you know is bollocks then it's just silly to find ways to excuse bad writing.

Anyhow moving on we have this latest pic from the BBC to publicise the last episodes...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0b/Stolen_Earth_gang.jpg

[Ontir]

Makes me wonder if Rose's Dad bought the farm again?!?

[mattx110]

One day John Barrowman said "y'know what would look cool, if I was on one knee in this promo shot!"

And he's not been allowed to reach full height since.

[Stressfactor]

One day John Barrowman said "y'know what would look cool, if I was on one knee in this promo shot!"

And he's not been allowed to reach full height since.

What about poor Lis Sladen? The woman is about 5 foot nothing and yet they're making her crouch here!

[Cyke]

You also need a script that's had more than five minutes spent on it. Spirit is fine but when you're watching something you know is bollocks then it's just silly to find ways to excuse bad writing.

Anyhow moving on we have this latest pic from the BBC to publicise the last episodes...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0b/Stolen_Earth_gang.jpg

Hm, the Whoverse's Justice League, basically. Neat.

[Omac70]

It's a great image.

And the less I know about who might have been photoshopped in, the better. Well...apart from Tate. She doesn't seem to be part of the picture...and that sort of sums up the experience of watching her on the show these past 10 weeks.

Midnight was bloody brilliant, by the way.

[Paul McEnery]

One day John Barrowman said "y'know what would look cool, if I was on one knee in this promo shot!"

And he's not been allowed to reach full height since.

Him and Tennant both look like they just got interrupted.

[Ontir]

"David Ten-Inch," INDEED! :tongue:

[ZT4]

You also need a script that's had more than five minutes spent on it. Spirit is fine but when you're watching something you know is bollocks then it's just silly to find ways to excuse bad writing]

Correction, YOU thought it was bollocks, I thought it wasnt any different from anything written by Moffat, it's just fun Doctor Who with twists only the most pedantic of anoraks ever bother moaning about.

I'm not going to go through a back-and-fourth with you, your mind is made up on LOTTL, I'm just trying to convey, as you are, why people like it.

^Some of the BBC novels actually were based on story ideas for Season 27-especially "Matrix" (Which features the return of the Valeyard) and Illegal Alien (Cybermen).

I've got both novels. "Matrix" would work well in the current series, in fact given the spoilers on the setting of the Christmas Special they ought to have went through with it

[Green Goblin]

Hi there folks , I have a question do any of you here read the target novelsations some of them are pretty good epsically the missing stories ones and the ones still existing often add extra detail to the background. Anyway my question is how do feel about that the Dalek that extertimnated Darvos in Gensis of the Daleks being the Dalek Prime that become the Gold Dalek then the Emepor Dalek as seen in Evil , just curious to know your thoughts on this.

[king mob]

Correction, YOU thought it was bollocks, I thought it wasnt any different from anything written by Moffat, it's just fun Doctor Who with twists only the most pedantic of anoraks ever bother moaning about.

Or it was a screaming load of gubbins to try to get Davies out of a hole he'd got himself into. It was lazy, sloppy & downright daft & nonsensical, even for Who. We get the Christ references that Davies is throwing in but that was Davies just SHOUTING at the audience 'LOOK THE DOCTOR IS CHRIST' just in case we're not smart enough to it up.

Up until the Gollum Doctor nonsense, the episode was going so well; the Master's insanity (the scene of him wheeling the Doctor around in a wheelchair while the Scissor Sisters play is great), Martha's quest plus little bits of genuine nastiness such as the Master's wife having a black eye & the Doctor living in a dog kennel.

Then you have Gollum Doctor, Tinkerbell Doctor & even more Christ references & the story goes to pot because there's nobody saying 'Russell, this doesn't make any sense, even for Who. Go sort it out' as a good script editor would.

So, you see, it's not about 'moaning' or being 'pedantic', it's about wanting something more than half arsed rubbish written in a day on my screen.

[thehod]

Or it was a screaming load of gubbins to try to get Davies out of a hole he'd got himself into. It was lazy, sloppy & downright daft & nonsensical, even for Who. We get the Christ references that Davies is throwing in but that was Davies just SHOUTING at the audience 'LOOK THE DOCTOR IS CHRIST' just in case we're not smart enough to it up.

Up until the Gollum Doctor nonsense, the episode was going so well; the Master's insanity (the scene of him wheeling the Doctor around in a wheelchair while the Scissor Sisters play is great), Martha's quest plus little bits of genuine nastiness such as the Master's wife having a black eye & the Doctor living in a dog kennel.

Then you have Gollum Doctor, Tinkerbell Doctor & even more Christ references & the story goes to pot because there's nobody saying 'Russell, this doesn't make any sense, even for Who. Go sort it out' as a good script editor would.

So, you see, it's not about 'moaning' or being 'pedantic', it's about wanting something more than half arsed rubbish written in a day on my screen.

I do hope you're coming to Brum mob, as I'm sure me, thee and Dave could have a bloody great Doctor Who discussion.

[Ontir]

I liked it.

[Typo Lad]

Maybe they're all crouched to make the lead look taller?

[king mob]

I do hope you're coming to Brum mob, as I'm sure me, thee and Dave could have a bloody great Doctor Who discussion.

I'm still planning on it but I need to get a fairly hectic summer (Glastonbury, mate's wedding, moving house & Reading) out the way first.

[king mob]

Spoiler free SFX review of The Stolen Earth.

"Episode 12 is ABSOLUTELY BLEEDIN' MENTAL and SUPER-DOOPER-FANWANKY. They'll have to power-hose the squee off the walls of the Outpost Gallifrey forums a week on Saturday.

"It feels a bit like a nostalgic Russell flicked through Doctor Who: The Encyclopedia and went 'Oooh, yeah, that was good - I'll have some of that. And them. And her. And bring in that wotsit from that throwaway line in episode X.' Whilst throwing his head back, hooting with laughter, and booming 'MARVELLOUS!' It's like watching the entire new series so far compressed into a blipvert.

"Ming-mong-kryptonite, then, and there's a danger that the sheer density of it will give casual viewers concussion, but I spent 45 minutes whooping and bellowing with laughter at the sheer don't-give-a-toss audacity of it, and am about to watch it all over again IMMEDIATELY. I bloody loved it, even though there's a slim chance I'll think it's a big pile of tits once I've calmed down sufficiently to be dryly rational - in, say, about three years' time."

There are spoilers knocking around the net, but the previews being sent out to journalists don't have the episode cliffhanger as that's under a very tight wrap. The rumour is that even the big end of series press showing will have the last few minutes of Journey's End missing to protect the ending.

[Spike-X]

Seems the season finale will have a few more guest stars than previously announced:

http://pics.livejournal.com/freyja/pic/000c6hb5.jpg

[ZT4]

They SO skipped an oppertunity to do a Sgt Peppers album

[SlightlyMad]

It's a great image.

And the less I know about who might have been photoshopped in, the better. Well...apart from Tate. She doesn't seem to be part of the picture...and that sort of sums up the experience of watching her on the show these past 10 weeks.

Midnight was bloody brilliant, by the way.

I didn't think the episode looked that great from the previous week's promo, but it was a neat little dramatic story made all the better from the absence of Tate from the majority of the episode.

I truly hope Donna gets exterminated in the finale. :evilsmile:

[Cyke]

Seems the season finale will have a few more guest stars than previously announced:

http://pics.livejournal.com/freyja/pic/000c6hb5.jpg

Friggin Harriet Jones is hogging the spotlight. Even Satan's been upstaged!

[DHX]

gahh this episode better have a big payoff. watching donna still irritates me.

[ZT4]

Watching Rowdy Bille Piper and her teeth of contorted doom still annoys the hell out of me. Tate acted her ass off in that and outperformed the character meant to be Donna's "guide" through the episode.

Good story, throwing in a "wibbly wobbly" resolution, but adds Donna's Doctorless world to Martha's Saxon-dominated one...and with Rose at the eye of the storm, she remembers it.

Next Time Trailer was an orgasm.

[Green Goblin]

Just one word Fantasic seeing a doctorless world made for very supstenful viewing and I like how they throw in the references to the other shows. The next weeks looks like going to brillant.

[drwho]

The episode trailer looks hot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPoYBVkRFFo

[Dancer]

Just curious, as I'm a new Doctor Who fan, whats the significance of a Red Dalek?

[Stressfactor]

Well, it was an enjoyable episode and sorry for all those who don't like Donna but I really enjoy her character and I enjoy her relationship with the Doctor.

I can see why some call this a kind of synopsis of the couple of years of the series and while I will admit to some fan squee moments. Can I just say.... the Cloister Bell ROCKS and it was wonderful to hear it again. I hope they continue to occasionally trot it out. I don't want them to overuse it but it's great when it's a signal for... "Oh %^&*, everything is going seriously pear shaped."

I am really, really curious about Donna now considering We have Rose telling her that time has warped around her strangely ever since she was born, the Fortune Teller remarks that Donna is too strong for the creature and then says "What are you? What will you be?" and finally even the Doctor remarking that there may be something about Donna because out of all the people in the universe hers has been the only life he's found himself bumping up against more than once. Oh yeah, and Rose telling her she's going to die...

The monster really was crap though... like BAD Classic Who crap (GOOD Classic Who still had good rubber monsters but BAD Classic Who is cringeworthy) interesting connection to the The Sarah Jane Adventures there... although I think I would have preferred seeing the monster from the SJA rather than this.

[drwho]

I thought this episode was absolutely amazing going back reinterpeting all those events was totally awesome. At least it looks like Donna will be going out in style as some super duper universal thinga majig. Much better than just having her offed like any other companion.

[mattx110]

It laughed.......!!!!!!


I didn't know they could do that.

[Toku King]

I'm actually glad she's leaving. She kind of annoyed me. She's not as bad as Mel(*shivers*), but I still prefer Rose and Martha.

[drwho]

Interesting spoiler speculation at this link

http://www.bebo.com/BlogView.jsp?MemberId=6572784558&BlogId=6605565205

Only issue I have with it is it seems like a partial mix of what happened in Turn Left. Would the writer of Who redo a similar type of story an episode, or 2 after a story already done?

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Interesting spoiler speculation at this link

http://www.bebo.com/BlogView.jsp?MemberId=6572784558&BlogId=6605565205

Only issue I have with it is it seems like a partial mix of what happened in Turn Left. Would the writer of Who redo a similar type of story an episode, or 2 after a story already done?

Yeah, I think there are probably kernels of truth in it, but as you said, there are some crazy similarities to Turn Left. I think too many for it to be for real, possibly pieces of the Turn Left story are mixed in with Stolen Earth and the finale. I don't think there is any way there is a Racnos on her back, with the way today's episode went, and the comments about her being special since birth, getting ANOTHER arthropod on her back being so unlikely and all the rest, it seems nearly impossible.

I am curious to see where the final episodes go, and I wonder if Clyde and Maria will be joining Luke and Sarah Jane in the finale. I adore the kids, they've done a simply outstanding job in SJA, and I am somewhat interested in seeing Luke and the Doctor meet. They're both remarkable, outsiders, unique and wicked smart. Doctor has seen everything before, for Luke everything is new, there are some interesting dichotomies and comparisons to be drawn, and an alien-made "perfect human" seems like a person of interest to the good Doctor.

[Ontir]

Can I just say.... the Cloister Bell ROCKS and it was wonderful to hear it again.

I think every longtime Whovian perked up when the Cloister Bell sounded! I was instantly chilled.

I hope they continue to occasionally trot it out. I don't want them to overuse it but it's great when it's a signal for... "Oh %^&*, everything is going seriously pear shaped."

I hope to hear it again, but it's got to be in a few years, when we have a real $#!+'s hitting the fan moment!

I am really, really curious about Donna now considering We have Rose telling her that time has warped around her strangely ever since she was born, the Fortune Teller remarks that Donna is too strong for the creature and then says "What are you? What will you be?" and finally even the Doctor remarking that there may be something about Donna because out of all the people in the universe hers has been the only life he's found himself bumping up against more than once. Oh yeah, and Rose telling her she's going to die...

I've had a theory about why the Doctor keeps coming to Earth, I thought Rose was the answer, but Donna could fit the bill, too. I think the reason the Doctor is so fascinated with Earth and humanity, is that he's looking for the first Time Lord. There's no reason to assume that Gallifrey exists, at least as in the Doctor's recollection, in our time. I think it's something that is created by those Time Lords who leave Earth and set up a new home.

The monster really was crap though... like BAD Classic Who crap (GOOD Classic Who still had good rubber monsters but BAD Classic Who is cringeworthy) interesting connection to the The Sarah Jane Adventures there... although I think I would have preferred seeing the monster from the SJA rather than this.

That's why I loved it. Very simple, bits of rubber and plastic, old-school WHO!

[mattx110]

I've had a theory about why the Doctor keeps coming to Earth, I thought Rose was the answer, but Donna could fit the bill, too. I think the reason the Doctor is so fascinated with Earth and humanity, is that he's looking for the first Time Lord. There's no reason to assume that Gallifrey exists, at least as in the Doctor's recollection, in our time. I think it's something that is created by those Time Lords who leave Earth and set up a new home.

Donna is the most like the doctor of the companions so far (since the days of timelady companions). "She's not completely human, and has some escaped timelord in her" was my thought when they kept going on about her being more and becoming more. Especially as we've had all those references to her dead father this episode (maybe he didn't survive the time war). It's a way of bringing in the Doctor Who movie half-human thing without revealing more about the doctor.

the problem for Tate is. She dies. Nothing stops that. But, she regenerates.
Sorry if any of this happens and you all feel I ruined it, there's a very big chance it won't. At least I didn't reveal that it's really the Sea Devils and Betrushian lizard-people behind it all. crap!

[Cyke]

Re: next week's trailer

I just drooled on my shirt.

[Ontir]

She dies. Nothing stops that. But, she regenerates.

If that's true, then...there might now be TWO Donnas, because she'd have regenerated during "Turn Left"!!!

[mattx110]

If that's true, then...there might now be TWO Donnas, because she'd have regenerated during "Turn Left"!!!
I don't think that really happened. She sorta woke up from the interdimensional whatever-it-was. She prevented it from happening. Two of a person running around is too crazy.

[noh-varr]

Here is the extended commentary of the trailer. Pretty informative if you need a who's who thing. And decent Who theme music playing too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZbRSxhaY1A&feature=related