Doctor Who *spoilers*

[Stressfactor]

Yay for "The War Machines". Even though it has terrible plot holes and Dodo gets dumped without a moment of thought it's always been a favorite of mine. Hartnell has that lovely badass moment where he faces down one of the titular machines and I don't think another Doctor since has looked quite so commanding.

As for the Season 24/Season 25 issue... Weeeellll... might it have something to do with the fact that a lot of fans have never really taken to McCoy's first season (or Bonnie Langford)?

Come to think of it -- I bet they're releasing "Battlefield" since the new series has resurrected UNIT.

[Stressfactor]

I've not read any Who novels. Was Bambera ever in the show? I don't recall her, but I've not seen all of the Colin Baker/McCoy eps. Telecasting them on PBS was spotty at best by that point.

Bambera appeared in "Battlefield" -- a McCoy era story. It was supposed to be set soemwhere in the 1990's and it was the last regular appearance of UNIT. Bambera gets a little bristly when everyone keeps calling Lethbridge-Stewart "Brigadier" and insists that she is Brigadier now.

Overall, its a pretty cute story.

[Ugoff]

If you can't wait to see new episodes Youtube has the next 3 online. Watched Pompei, Planet of the Ood, and the 1st part of the Sontarian story the other day. Even after watching them online I still will watch them when they air on Sci Fi since they so far have all been really good.

THANK YOU! I really appreciate that information. I might do that but I don't know, I kinda like waiting cuz it gives me something to look forward to.

[ZT4]

"The Poison Sky" had the resolution we all kind of guessed for the cliffhanger, only it wasnt The Doctor smashing through the car window to rescue Donna's grandfather, it was her mother.

Good shades of old and recent continuity. The Valiant making a reapperance, now under the control of UNT, the reference to the location of the Brigadeer (stranded in Peru, and Allyster also received a knighthood apparently) Ross being killed in the Sontaran's strike on Earth and Rattigan sacrificing himself once again showed the body count is high this season for virtually anyone likeable or not.

A tip of the hat to the production team for managing to include THAT "blink and you'll miss" scene in the TARDIS Phone screen, and the cliffhanger left us with a full TARDIS crew again

Does anyone think The Doctor's Hand is becoming this series answer to The Cloister Bell?

[drwho]

For episode 6 is that supposed to be the doctor's original daughter, or a new one? Also some clarification and maybe I have my who facts messed up, but was it ever revealed that the girl that called him grandfather was in fact his daughter? Maybe im confused. lol

[ZT4]

For episode 6 is that supposed to be the doctor's original daughter, or a new one? Also some clarification and maybe I have my who facts messed up, but was it ever revealed that the girl that called him grandfather was in fact his daughter? Maybe im confused. lol

If you want to count the New Adventure novel Lungbarrow as canon (which I dont), you'd be even more confused

Susan is supposed to be the granddaughter of The Doctor's previous life, "The Other"

[carabas]

This was better than part 1.

Best bit: where the Doctor puts on the gasmask and goes "Are you my mommy?"

[edhopper]

Now that's more like it. Pompeii was good episode all around. Fun aliens, the Doctor going from bemused to comical to maniacal, and I'm warming to Donna from London. Far better the previous two episodes.

[Captain Jim]

Voyage of the Damned doesn't really count as an initial episode, as it airs originally in between seasons (despite what we see here on SciFi).

But I definitely agree than Pompeii was a great improvement over the previous episode. Not one of the best, but definitely better. I'd probably give the first Donna episode a "C" and this one a "B".

(I guess we'll have to go back to 21st century earth again before we catch another Rose cameo.)

[Ontir]

That was brilliant!

I love the Sontaran teleport units. Cool SFX.

I also like the way the Doctor let clone Martha go about her business, because it suited his. I also loved the bit where he told her she might as well wear an "I'm a clone" T-Shirt," but not around Capt. Jack! Of course there was also Rose, trying to get through on the TARDIS' video screen.

An interesting and fun ep.

It stands to reason that if the Doctor could have a granddaughter, he'd have to have a child...

[RichJohnston]

And do you know who's playing the Doctor's daughter?

The Doctor's daughter!

[SPAfreak]

For anyone who watches Confidential I have a question about the Sontarrans:

Is there head and face an elaborate prosthetic, a remote controlled device, an expensive bit of CGI or a mix?

[Nosgoth Phantom]

Did anyone else catch Rose in this episode? She was in the TARDIS's monitor mouthing the word "Doctor" for a few seconds during his transmission to Donna.

[Stressfactor]

I'm going to have to be a 'meh'-er on this episode. I really liked that Donna was afraid and openly admitted it but that she pulled on the boots and went out there and did what she needed to do. I also think that Mace's speech to the troops and his use of the Valiant to blow away the fog showed his as a capable leader and even the Doctor was impressed.

On the flip side, though -- too many deliberate tear-jerker moments. The scene with Donna calling her family was well-done and understandible -- it fit in very well with the plot -- but then Helen Raynor's script basically tries to force the audience to feel sorry for Martha's clone -- and it just didn't come off for me. Finally, there was Donna's tearful goodby to her grandfather at the end. It just all felt like too much for one 45 minute episode really.

Nice shout-out to the Brig even though he would be in his late 70's or early 80's by now....

[Cyke]

I also think that Mace's speech to the troops and his use of the Valiant to blow away the fog showed his as a capable leader and even the Doctor was impressed.

Mace: "You will face me, sir!"
Skorr: "Eh?"
Mace's pistol: BLAMMO!!!
(dying) Skorr: "...excellent..."

That's funny, I was thinking the same thing there, Skorr.

[king mob]

Nice shout-out to the Brig even though he would be in his late 70's or early 80's by now....

Nic Courtney is still a jobbing actor so it's nice to suggest we could still get an appearence by the Brigadier. It was a nice touch though, as was the clip of Rose on the viewscreen and UNIT actually doing more than just running around like twats.

This was a better episode but it still didn't do enough to dispell my serious doubts that the programme is running out of steam and needs an all round regeneration. This said next weeks episode looks interesting with the Doctor's daughter doing her Matrix stuff, plus we finally get the first story set on another planet this series.

[king mob]

True, but there is also a great deal of extreme homophobia within Jamaican culture, and perhaps that's what drew the ire of Morrissey to begin with.

It might be worth starting a thread elsewhere to deal with this in more detail but that would be an incredibly wrong assumption to make.

[rick]

And do you know who's playing the Doctor's daughter?

The Doctor's daughter!


Which is just so cool when you think about it.

[Cyke]

we finally get the first story set on another planet this series.

But the Ood! They were on that Sphere! It was some kind of ... Ood Sphere!

[/Tennant]

[king mob]

But the Ood! They were on that Sphere! It was some kind of ... Ood Sphere!

[/Tennant]

True but it was all so samey it seemed to be yet another Earth story.

I've never understood why RTD keeps the programme so Earthbound, it seems to be something incredibly restrictive for the writers & viewers.

[carabas]

If every almost episode has aliens and alien planets up the whazoo, they stop being special or wonderful.

[Sean Whitmore]

If every almost episode has aliens and alien planets up the whazoo, they stop being special or wonderful.

There's little worry, then. In three seasons, the closest we've come to an alien planet (by which I mean actually populated by aliens, not just migrating Earthlings) is Platform One or the Titanic.


SEAN

[Ontir]

It might be worth starting a thread elsewhere to deal with this in more detail but that would be an incredibly wrong assumption to make.

Starting the thread would be presumptuous, or the fact of homophobia in Jamaican society is presumptuous?

[Enigmanaut]

For anyone who watches Confidential I have a question about the Sontarrans:

Is there head and face an elaborate prosthetic, a remote controlled device, an expensive bit of CGI or a mix?

It was all prosthetic. They made a head that glues in around the face, then a separately applied facial prosthesis that follows the lines of the actor's faces. They are then painted to have a mottled coloring, and a bit of KY is smeared on them to give them a glossy sheen.

[Spike-X]

Ross being killed in the Sontaran's strike on Earth...

Not Ross! Ross is nice!

Pretty solid episode there. I love how Donna's grandfather embraces her decision to keep travelling with the Doctor. Hell, he probably just doesn't want her staying on Earth to become another small-minded, whining twat like her mum.

[king mob]

Starting the thread would be presumptuous, or the fact of homophobia in Jamaican society is presumptuous?

The latter but it's a thread for elsewhere probably.

[SPAfreak]

It was all prosthetic. They made a head that glues in around the face, then a separately applied facial prosthesis that follows the lines of the actor's faces. They are then painted to have a mottled coloring, and a bit of KY is smeared on them to give them a glossy sheen.

Thanks. That sounds remarkably uncomfortable.

[Stressfactor]

Not Ross! Ross is nice!

Yeah, I had some hopes that Ross would become a semi-recurring character. The next time UNIT popped up you could count on Ross popping up too, but noooooo, he had to succumb to Star Trek's Red Shirt Syndrome. :mad:

[tricksterpup]

The more I see these episodes the more I am enjoying Donna as the Doctor's companion. Heck, can you imagine if she was with Eccleston instead? I think they would have made an interesting Duo.

But I am finding more to my liking how Donna balances out the Doctor more than Rose or Martha.

[Typo Lad]

Okay, I confess, I didn't get the "clone" joke about Captain Jack. What am I missing?

[Omac70]

Okay, I confess, I didn't get the "clone" joke about Captain Jack. What am I missing?
Something about the way gay people dress, apparently...which I (and several million other people) didn't get either.

Another fairly dreadful episode, but thankfully we're heading out of "this is what we do every year" territory now...before sailing right back into it with the final few episodes probably... Hopefully the middle part of the season can be a little more imaginative and just different.

Because for me, it's getting a little stale now - and the repetition within the show is a large part of the reason why I think this season has got off to the worst start of them all. Glad other people are enjoying it though, because if we don't have a show at all then there's obviously zero chance of seeing them produce something more to my taste.

[Omac70]

too many deliberate tear-jerker moments. The scene with Donna calling her family was well-done and understandible -- it fit in very well with the plot -- but then Helen Raynor's script basically tries to force the audience to feel sorry for Martha's clone -- and it just didn't come off for me. Finally, there was Donna's tearful goodby to her grandfather at the end. It just all felt like too much for one 45 minute episode really.
Never stops them. They spend so much time hitting us over the head with these moments - this is SAD, this is DRAMATIC - that they leave no room to build up to them naturally. And it just becomes a series of heavy-handed "emotional" scenes which more often than not make no sense within the story and are forced into it - rather than being arrived at through the process of telling it.

It stops me caring, rather than making me care more.

[Ontir]

I didn't think the climax was so much about getting the audience to feel for Clone Martha, rather it was about Martha facing her mortality in a really odd way, and using her own strengths and traits to get the information needed from the clone. Nobody else could have done it, because only Martha knew what really means the most to her.

I liked the farewell to Donna's grandfather, but I'm not sure if I missed something or not when they were @ the kitchen table. Was he just not telling her Mom she was going, or is there something else?

[Tobias March]

I liked the farewell to Donna's grandfather, but I'm not sure if I missed something or not when they were @ the kitchen table. Was he just not telling her Mom she was going, or is there something else?

The implication is the former, but you might be on to something there.

[king mob]

Because for me, it's getting a little stale now - and the repetition within the show is a large part of the reason why I think this season has got off to the worst start of them all. Glad other people are enjoying it though, because if we don't have a show at all then there's obviously zero chance of seeing them produce something more to my taste.


The old series changed on a regular basis, even during the JNT days it would try different things in order to keep the programme fresh. They need to do something with the series in order to stop it becoming stale, getting Tate in as a celebrity guest companion isn't enough.

[Tobias March]

There's something ho-hum alright.

It's almost a relief after shows like BSG that just switch everything around on you so often you get dizzy....but then BSG is far better than the Doctor these days.

The former deals with issues like keeping ones sanity, the ravages of war, religion, drug addiction. This week on the Doctor?

War...HUNH....good god y'all, what is it good for - ABSOLUTELY NOTHING - say it again!

[Stressfactor]

Keep in mind, I wouldn't let my 9 year-old nephew watch BSG -- I would be a bit more inclined to let him watch "Doctor Who".


I bought "Pyramids of Mars" last weekend and finally got to around to finishing it up last night and it did remind me how diverse "DW" used to be. As bad as some of the "padded" old episodes used to be there IS something to be said for the old serial format. It allowed the writers to often explore a topic or subject in greater depth and let you get to know the characters better and care about them.


And then there was just getting some great baddies in... Sutekh was seriously awesome -- no ranting, no "I want to rule the world" just "destroy everything". I'm honestly coming to understand that "DW" really does rise and fall on the baddies -- the threats to the Doctor and how he handles them -- whether that be with anger or with compassion and understanding or even with fear and trepidation.

[Tobias March]

And then there was just getting some great baddies in... Sutekh was seriously awesome -- no ranting, no "I want to rule the world" just "destroy everything". I'm honestly coming to understand that "DW" really does rise and fall on the baddies -- the threats to the Doctor and how he handles them -- whether that be with anger or with compassion and understanding or even with fear and trepidation.

I would agree with you completely on that score. With these episodes the Doctor comes across as a Christian moral fable with the villains as personifications of various human traits.

Point - Rattigan's choice in this episode. Felt very much like a Latin phrase I once heard. Bono est bonum? Something like that. Through giving us choice, God's love for us makes us responsible for ourselves and evil choices only ensure our love for god as they make him stronger.

....I might have gotten that wrong.

[tricksterpup]

There's something ho-hum alright.

It's almost a relief after shows like BSG that just switch everything around on you so often you get dizzy....but then BSG is far better than the Doctor these days.

The former deals with issues like keeping ones sanity, the ravages of war, religion, drug addiction. This week on the Doctor?

War...HUNH....good god y'all, what is it good for - ABSOLUTELY NOTHING - say it again!

It could be worse. far worse.. imagine Doctor who done like Friends?

[Omac70]

They need to do something with the series in order to stop it becoming stale, getting Tate in as a celebrity guest companion isn't enough.
They could try not doing exactly the same kind of stories at almost exactly the same points in the season year after year.
Avoid structuring each season so they always tell a story with a "beginning", "middle" & "end" - which ties into the repetition above, and also makes things more predictable generally because we can almost guess when the big stuff is going to happen.
Try to go for small-scale threats more often, as by the end of season one we already had millions of Daleks on the rampage - and repeating that scale of threat bores rather than wows, and the only way out is always a variation on the reset switch.
Russell could perhaps try to restrain himself from "polishing" every script that's not written by either him or Moffatt, so each story gets more of a chance to find its own "voice".

Smaller things that could perhaps change are the "house style" of directing which makes everything look a bit samey, and all the music being done by the same composer. This obviously occured in the old series too - but not really compounding a problem there.

None of this will change while the show is successful, even perhaps with a new showrunner. There'll be the usual scrabble to alter things after the audience starts to drift away - if they do - when what should really happen is that gradual changes to the formula are made year by year, anticipating the boredom threshold of the viewer.

[ChrisIII]

We've lost another Doctor Who actor: Bernard Archard, who played Marcus Scarman-an Archaeologist posessed by Sutekh-in Pyramid of Mars as well as a sadly mostly lost role in Power of the Daleks. He was 91, so it's nice to know he had a pretty full life :)

"Pyramid Of Mars" is also a favorite of mine as well. The "Gothic folly" sets (Which exteriors were actually Mick Jagger's mansion, I believe) still hold up (Can't really say the same for the Mars ones, though), and Gabriel Woolf is great as Sutekh, Michael Sheard is a great semi-companion in Lawrence Scarman and Bernard was haunting as the posessed Marcus. Plus Tom Baker does arguably his most alien and serious take on the Doctor, and Elisabeth Sladen as Sarah's great too.

[Stressfactor]

I just got done watching Pyramids of Mars the other night having bought the DVD so hearing this was something of a surprise.

And yes, terrific performances all around in that story -- not one clunker in the bunch and that's something that can't always be said. Doubly difficult for Archard who had to put up with all kinds of special effects stuff -- like doing the entire scene where Marcus Scarman is shot backwards so that when it played it looked like it had been done forwards.

[Omac70]

Sad news about Bernard. Seen him in a few things over the years, and he always gives a good performance. Marvellous in Pyramids, obviously - which is, as has been said, virtually flawless.

While I'm here, I may as well mention that... (spoilered for the most sensitive amongst us)

...it seems virtually certain that Steven Moffat will be taking over with series 5, and this has been set in stone for some time now. Whether this will mean BIG changes to the series or not...well, we'll see.

[Omac70]

His name is Clive Swift, and in 1985, he was in a 6th Doctor serial entitled, Revelation of the Daleks.
...And he's also effectively written himself out of the S4 finale because of his comments in DWM a few months ago...

[Stressfactor]

...And he's also effectively written himself out of the S4 finale because of his comments in DWM a few months ago...

Why what did he say? You can spoiler text it if need be but some of us Yanks can't get our grubby colonial mitts on DWM.

Also, he actually hasn't written himself out since some fans already saw a lot of the filming for the finale several months back and Cribbins was definitely there.

[Omac70]

This contains info on all the people who will be in the finale, so just a warning:

Cribbins should be there, along with with most of the other ex-regulars and semi-regulars (apart from Adam & I think, Pete). It's Mr Copper (from VOTD) who won't be there, apparently directly because of that interview in DWM. Haven't read it myself, but in it I'm told he was quite disparaging about the show - which is sort of fair enough a few years later, but whilst you're filming it? - and quite rude to the interviewer. Enough in itself to make them doubt their plans to bring him back perhaps, but it certainly doesn't help that the interviewer was Benjamin Cook, who is definitely part of the "inner circle" and close friends with RTD.

It's being said that Harriet Jones is the replacement for Mr Copper in the finale. How literal a replacement (as in, doing the same things he might have done), I don't know.

[king mob]

Moffatt isn't confirmed & it's unlikely he will take over in 2009 as he's just far too busy with his Sherlock Holmes Christmas special & the Spielberg/Jackson TinTin films.
It's a nice fanboy fantasy but there's a lot of reshuffling in Cardiff to suggest that someone is coming in to replace RTD by 2010 at the latest.

[Stressfactor]

Oh.. Swift - Cribbins ... I had my wires crossed. Sorry, but still, interesting news about Swift's DWM piece. Doesn't sound like the "done thing" at all.

[Omac70]

I would have thought he'd be too busy too, but he wouldn't really be taking over full-time for some time yet.

Also I'd doubted myself that he'd want to be showrunner, as that would seem to be tying him down too much and not allowing him the freedom to do all sorts of other stuff... But he is a huge fan, who got into writing because of the show. And Doctor Who may be the one thing that he'd allow himself to be taken over by.

Just what I've heard. We'll see.

[Omac70]

Easily done.

And no - not exactly an attitude you expect from someone still on set. Wave bye-bye to another nice cheque and lots more royalties, Mr Copper!

[king mob]

I've been working through the Invasion Of Time DVD & the story is a great example of how much fun Who is. I especially love the chase through the Tardis & the disco fashions, wonderful stuff.

[Tobias March]

I've been working through the Invasion Of Time DVD & the story is a great example of how much fun Who is. I especially love the chase through the Tardis & the disco fashions, wonderful stuff.

Classic Who's excellence was often on reflection derived from the necessarily thrown together nature of the means available to them....whereas New Who has every BBC News Anchor queuing up for a cameo.

I'm just afraid that inspiring desperation and hunger isn't there anymore.

[Stressfactor]

I've been working through the Invasion Of Time DVD & the story is a great example of how much fun Who is. I especially love the chase through the Tardis & the disco fashions, wonderful stuff.

One of my favorite stories and probably my favorite "Time Lord-centric" story is still "The Deadly Assassin". It's probably got the most cheesy, silly title (I mean, you kind of EXPECT an assissin to be deadly, right? It's kind of part of the whole 'assassin' thing...) but it is such a surreal ride. From the fact that it looks like the Doctor actually pulled the trigger in the first cliffhanger to the wild, mental and physical battle inside the Matrix (yeah, Wachoski brothers, I'm looking at you... screw Neo and the rest Doctor Who did it first!) its a top notch, entertaining story and a political thriller to boot.

Hmmm... can't wait till we get that one on DVD...

[ChrisIII]

http://www.cooltoyreview.com/story/front/Hasbro_Whats_Next_For_Marvel_Legends_114449.asp

Looks like there's going to be a Hulk-themed line.

[ChrisIII]

Oops! Replied to the wrong thread....

[LordEd1976]

Tonight's episode was cool. Never thought I'd feel sorry for a race that look like Mind Flayers.

I wonder what that Ood meant when he told the Dr about his song being almost finished?

[Captain Jim]

Tonight's episode was cool. Never thought I'd feel sorry for a race that look like Mind Flayers.

I liked it a lot. Each episode this season has gotten better so far, I believe. I couldn't help but think tonight, "Finally! This is more like it!"

Episode 1 - C
Episode 2 - B
Episode 3 - A

I wonder what that Ood meant when he told the Dr about his song being almost finished?

Dunno, but it sure sounds ominous. Can't believe it doesn't mean something. I wonder if this could be a hint that he'll be coming up on a regeneration soon?

And why in the heck did SciFi have the next week's preview blacked out?

[ultramandingo]

..........anyone else notice the ood got kinda dr zoidberg thing going on? woop woop woop !!!

[ZT4]

Oops! Replied to the wrong thread....

A Hulk-themed TARDIS would sell like gangbusters:cool:

[DoubleWide]

I agree whole hardily, it was incredibly sad. I was reminded of the old adage, "if its too good to be true, it probably is." One would think that if a race such as the Ood would show up wanting only to serve, some people, including a few high profile ones hopefully, would voice their concerns.

[Tobias March]

Ok so I'm seeing Brian Aldiss' Non-Stop; Star Trek III....

[ZT4]

BSG and DW are two very different shows and always have been, it's ridiculous to make the distinction. BSG is drama, DW is light-hearted runaround drama it's "fans" THINK ought to be something more serious. By moaning, they miss out. Lighten up and enjoy yourself, this was clearly a filler episode and should have been approached as one.

Your old Who is dead and it's never coming back, and sometimes I'm glad, the serials had all the pacing of a slug and Terry Nation, Robert Holmes, etc, likely would have written their best scripts if they hadnt had to drag them out to six parts or so.

And before anyone says it, I don't hate Old Who, I love it.

[Tobias March]

BSG and DW are two very different shows and always have been, it's ridiculous to make the distinction. BSG is drama, DW is light-hearted runaround drama it's "fans" THINK ought to be something more serious. By moaning, they miss out. Lighten up and enjoy yourself, this was clearly a filler episode and should have been approached as one.

Your old Who is dead and it's never coming back, and sometimes I'm glad, the serials had all the pacing of a slug and Terry Nation, Robert Holmes, etc, likely would have written their best scripts if they hadnt had to drag them out to six parts or so. Not that I hate Old Who...but CHRIST, it's not the end/all, be-all.

Care to tell us what you really think? Here's the thing Battlestar - good writing. Doctor Who - hackneyed writing. Ladies and gents, the Doc has become Britain's version of Stargate.

[Deathstroke]

I saw Planet of the Ood last night.

I thought it was pretty good.

But did I miss the explanation of why they were going rabid?

[Deathstroke]

I thought it was a really good episode.

I loved it when the PR chick finally got zapped.

[drwho]

So the doctor's daughter origin turned out being pretty anticlimatic and meh to me. I was very disappointed to learn she was just a lame clone created just in this episode.

[Sanagi]

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/5949/32ss0.jpghttp://img337.imageshack.us/img337/5499/zoidberghz7.jpghttp://img213.imageshack.us/img213/5505/42826637who3bbcor0.jpg

[Holacik]

And why in the heck did SciFi have the next week's preview blacked out?
It wasn't blacked out for me, it basically showed the return of Martha which should make the Tardis and interesting place next week. I liked Donna's first ep, but the fat creations looked really really weak. Pompeii ep was pretty good, and I liked the fact that the Doctor was going to leave everone behind, it fits in with the Tenth Doctors dark side. The Ood ep was good as well and I like how Donna showing how mortifing it can be traveling with the Doctor. Most other companions glaze over the dark stuff, while Donna kind of says what everyone is thinking. Sometimes the Doctor sees some 'f' uped stuff.

[Tobias March]

So the doctor's daughter origin turned out being pretty anticlimatic and meh to me. I was very disappointed to learn she was just a lame clone created just in this episode.

Hey, I think a lot of us were looking for a connection to ....Susan wasn't it?

[Captain Jim]

It wasn't blacked out for me, it basically showed the return of Martha which should make the Tardis and interesting place next week

That's weird. What time did you watch it? I watched it at 9:00. (I know it replays later.)

[tricksterpup]

I actually liked this episode. I didn't mind where her character came from.
The entire point of it was, she broke her "coding" and followed the Doctor's lead.
So stop your belly ach'n it was good tv and very entertaining. Much better than most drivel that is on television. Yes, its not as dark and moody as BSG but then again as pointed out, its not family orientated as Doctor Who is.

I saw this on IMDB and thought this was a hoot.
I did not know Georgia Moffett, aka Jenny, has a real life tie in to Doctor Who. She really is the daughter of the Doctor.

Georgia Moffett, who portrays the Doctor's daughter Jenny in this episode, is in real life the daughter of Peter Davison, who portrayed the Doctor in the early 1980s.

[Holacik]

That's weird. What time did you watch it? I watched it at 9:00. (I know it replays later.)

I watched the replay at 11, as I didn't get home from work untill 930.

[Omac70]

DW is light-hearted runaround drama it's "fans" THINK ought to be something more serious. By moaning, they miss out. Lighten up and enjoy yourself, this was clearly a filler episode and should have been approached as one.

Your old Who is dead and it's never coming back, and sometimes I'm glad
Not everyone who thinks S4 is shit thinks that because they want to see a return to some (probably non-existent) "halcyon era" but rather because they just think it's shit.

(a return to how good it's been at times over the past three years would be a good enough start)

And it can be as light-hearted or serious as it cares to be, because we all like variety. But if it's shit it's shit - in people's individual opinions.

If it's fair to say that those who complain don't really not genuinely like it, and it's just "moaning" or "comparing it to the 70s" or "an inability to get laid"...or any number of other reasons rather than just a dislike for what they're actually seeing on screen...should it also be fair to say that people who are enjoying it are "easily pleased"?

[Spike-X]

So the doctor's daughter origin turned out being pretty anticlimatic and meh to me.

Oh yeah. Biggest bait-and-switch in the history of television. Once I saw that, I was prepared to hate the whole episode. It won me over in the end, though.

Now that Jenny's not dead after all, this opens up a whole world of possibilities for future episodes. I guess the part with the Doctor's hand was just to remind us about the whole "first twelve hours of regeneration" thing. I guess that counts for cloning as well.

And my goodness, Georgia Moffat is an extremely attractive young lady.

[sneggz]

Oh yeah. Biggest bait-and-switch in the history of television. Once I saw that, I was prepared to hate the whole episode. It won me over in the end, though.

Now that Jenny's not dead after all, this opens up a whole world of possibilities for future episodes. I guess the part with the Doctor's hand was just to remind us about the whole "first twelve hours of regeneration" thing. I guess that counts for cloning as well.

And my goodness, Georgia Moffat is an extremely attractive young lady.

totally agreed. why'd only the doc get processed tho? i like how she just popped back up at the end though, maybe eventually well see the doc doin domestics?

[Ontir]

Oh yeah. Biggest bait-and-switch in the history of television. Once I saw that, I was prepared to hate the whole episode. It won me over in the end, though.

Now that Jenny's not dead after all, this opens up a whole world of possibilities for future episodes. I guess the part with the Doctor's hand was just to remind us about the whole "first twelve hours of regeneration" thing. I guess that counts for cloning as well.

And my goodness, Georgia Moffat is an extremely attractive young lady.

I have to agree. I was hoping that the Doctor's daughter would be the mother of Susan, and was rather disappointed at first, but I enjoyed the story, and I love Genny. I think you're also right about the hand.

I also liked the ep, because it really showed off the differences between Martha and Donna, and why the Doctor chose them both. Donna's usefulness, by way of temping, is always amusing, and as someone who has temped, it's amazing what you can pick up, and how astounding those random bits of knowledge can be to your next employer. I love her more and more.

[Spike-X]

I was hoping that the Doctor's daughter would be the mother of Susan.


Maybe one day she will be?

OOOH!!!

[SPAfreak]

And my goodness, Georgia Moffat is an extremely attractive young lady.

She's got one heck of an infectious smile, doesn't she? Perfect to play a Doctor's daughter. A bit ironic eh?

[Stressfactor]

Pretty good ep. It still feels a bit like they're trying to shoehorn a bit too much into each story -- for me, I didn't feel like I got that connected to Jenny -- I had much more fellow feeling for the poor Hath that was tagging around after Martha. That sub-plot got a little lost in the furror over "The Doctor's Daughter" but if you look at it -- Martha was being "Doctor-y" herself. She won over the Hath to her side AND encouraged him to start taking some risks in the hope of a better life not just endless war.

I was a bit peeved though by Donna's comment to Martha that she would travel with the Doctor 'for the rest of her life'. Yeah, like THAT'S not foreshadowing. :rolleyes: Anybody says anything like that in Doctor Who you might as well pin a red shirt on them or something like.

[Tobias March]

Pretty good ep. It still feels a bit like they're trying to shoehorn a bit too much into each story -- for me, I didn't feel like I got that connected to Jenny -- I had much more fellow feeling for the poor Hath that was tagging around after Martha. That sub-plot got a little lost in the furror over "The Doctor's Daughter" but if you look at it -- Martha was being "Doctor-y" herself. She won over the Hath to her side AND encouraged him to start taking some risks in the hope of a better life not just endless war.

I was a bit peeved though by Donna's comment to Martha that she would travel with the Doctor 'for the rest of her life'. Yeah, like THAT'S not foreshadowing. :rolleyes: Anybody says anything like that in Doctor Who you might as well pin a red shirt on them or something like.

Yes I could almost imagine Martha sayingto herself: You silly gel, stay in Sarf Londin! Where it's safe, 'part from the Cybermen....Dalek invasions.....Toclafane....Antipose....Sontarans.. ...oo bugger.

[Typo Lad]

Just watched "The Doctor's Daughter.

I thought the Doctor legging it out so soon made it obvious Jenny would regenerate, but I did love how she just jetted off. To me, it adds to the tragedy of it - he's mourning a "daughter" who's alive, trying to live up to the awesomeness of being "The Doctor's Daughter".

The cynic in me sees this as the seed of a potential spin-off or new companion (because frankly, the idea of the Doctor traveling around with a blood relation has to appeal to Who purists). I think it could actually work, too

Also? Having Donna and Martha side-by-side really shows how much "better" a companion Martha is. To me, anyway.

[Cleric of Hell's Brigade]

I, too, was disappointed at first by her not being Susan's mother. However, the ending was good, and the episode as a whole was pretty descent.


Hopefully, he'll run across her again at some point.

[rick]

Also? Having Donna and Martha side-by-side really shows how much "better" a companion Martha is. To me, anyway.


Really?

I don't have anything against Martha, but she never really excited me either, while on the other hand Donna is easily in my opinion one of the Doctors best companions ever.

[Spike-X]

The cynic in me sees this as the seed of a potential spin-off...


You're definitely not alone there.

[Amethyst Rose]

So that would be, what, three spin-offs? I love me some Doctor Who, but isn't it a bit much?

Doctor 4/Sarah FTW

[Stressfactor]

Yeah, it probably would be a bit much. It also might strain the BBC budget. I mean, they can cut some corners on "Torchwood" and "SJA" since those shows mainly have Earth-based settings but any spin-offs with "The Doctor's daughter" are going to require alien worlds and futuristic settings for every episode. And unlike "Doctor Who", which can occasionally come "back to Earth" for some eps, Jenny doesn't have a TARDIS so that lets out any visits to 20th Century Earth.


Still, I *could* see Georgia Moffett being asked back for another guest appearance. The Doctor running into his daughter again. Heck, she might even make companion status yet! Doesn't sound like she would pop up in the three 2009 specials but nothing's been said about 2010. Heck, by 2010 we might even have a new Doctor!

It's all going to depend on how long RTD wants to hold onto this 'Last of the Time Lords' bit. Obviously, as the Doctor pointed out, Jenny is *genetically* a Time Lord but she does not have the culture or the history. If she starts traveling with the Doctor then she starts *learning* the culture and the history of her people. At which point the Doctor stops being "Last of the Time Lords" and Jenny becomes "First of the new Time Lords."



# And if we're going to get into companion sweepstakes here -- I like Catherine Tate better than any of the modern companions. She has moxie. And she's willing to verbally and physically give the Doctor a cuff when he behaves like a prawn. However, if you're talking Old Who -- best TARDIS team for me belongs to 2nd Doctor/Jamie/Zoe. You had cunning, brawn, and brains in equal balance with some comedy thrown in for kicks.

[Ontir]

I don't think the "Last of the Time Lords" is something RTD is planning to keep. Rather it's something the Doctor has believed, and was proven wrong, last season. Remember, the Face of Bo told him "You are not alone..." He didn't say there's one other, or ten more, just that the Doctor isn't alone. If Genny wasn't meant to stick, she wouldn't have been resuscitated at the end of the ep. We're going to see more of her!

[king mob]

(a return to how good it's been at times over the past three years would be a good enough start)


That would be nice. Doesn't look as if it's happening.

I caught up with Saturday's episode this morning & although it wasn't utter rubbish, it was another half arsed episode that could have done with several re-writes before filming.

Tate continues to be out of place but not as bad as expected; Agyeman needs to return full time, and Tennant really does seem like he's going through the motions at times. Georgina Moffet was sweet as Jenny & although a spin off is highly improbable, I'd expect her to pop up again in the future.

We're at the half way point of this series & I find myself not trying to get to a telly to watch the programme on Saturday night. Instead I'm happy to watch it on Iplayer & find better things to do on a Saturday nights.

A year off could do the programme good, especially if the restructuring means we get a better show when it does return for a full series in 2010.

[Tobias March]

Two storylines in a row involving militaristic clones caught in a perpetual conflict.

We get it - war is baaaaaad.

[tricksterpup]

That would be nice. Doesn't look as if it's happening.

I caught up with Saturday's episode this morning & although it wasn't utter rubbish, it was another half arsed episode that could have done with several re-writes before filming.

Tate continues to be out of place but not as bad as expected; Agyeman needs to return full time, and Tennant really does seem like he's going through the motions at times. Georgina Moffet was sweet as Jenny & although a spin off is highly improbable, I'd expect her to pop up again in the future.

We're at the half way point of this series & I find myself not trying to get to a telly to watch the programme on Saturday night. Instead I'm happy to watch it on Iplayer & find better things to do on a Saturday nights.

A year off could do the programme good, especially if the restructuring means we get a better show when it does return for a full series in 2010.

I see all the who fans belly aching how bad the show is and I just don't get it?
I have shown the show to many non doctor who fans, who hated the old show but love these newer shows.
I mean besides things are off, what is off about it?

I will give you this, The season is very formulaic, you can expect certain things to happen by episode blah. And yes, its not as good as Season 1 but but as TV goes its alot better than many other shows on television right now.

[ZT4]

I see all the who fans belly aching how bad the show is and I just don't get it?

Better off ignoring them. Thier show died a long time ago, it's never coming back

The cold slap of reality is that they havent realized yet that there not eight years old anymore, there twenty-eight, thirty-eight, fourty-eight etc....thinking the show ages with them, and only the novels and the audios, which are arguable anorak-fests, reflect what they want

[Tobias March]

Better off ignoring them. Thier show died a long time ago, it's never coming back

The cold slap of reality is that they havent realized yet that there not eight years old anymore, there twenty-eight, thirty-eight, fourty-eight etc....thinking the show ages with them, and only the novels and the audios, which are arguable anorak-fests, reflect what they want

Or, equally - it's just not very good. Playing devil's advocate here.

Step away from the keyboard next time you feel a rush of cliches like that, bad for the skin.

[Haydn C]

Two storylines in a row involving militaristic clones caught in a perpetual conflict.

We get it - war is baaaaaad.

I have enjoyed that aspect of the past few episodes. Actually I am not sure enjoyed is the right world, I thought The Doctor was terribly sanctimonious and a touch hypocritical in The Sontaran Stratagem and The Poisen Sky with his attitudes towards UNIT and violent resistance and it was nice to see the Jenny character calling him on it.

It was good to see Nigel Terry as well.

[Spike-X]

I have enjoyed that aspect of the past few episodes. Actually I am not sure enjoyed is the right world, I thought The Doctor was terribly sanctimonious and a touch hypocritical in The Sontaran Stratagem and The Poisen Sky with his attitudes towards UNIT and violent resistance and it was nice to see the Jenny character calling him on it.


They're definitely building towards something with that.

[Haydn C]

That would be nice. Doesn't look as if it's happening.

Tennant really does seem like he's going through the motions at times.

A year off could do the programme good, especially if the restructuring means we get a better show when it does return for a full series in 2010.

Tennant appears to be coasting through the shouty, eye roling overly dramatic moments but I still like his work with the quieter scenes. I enjoyed his conversation/explanation to Jenny about the time war for example.

On a side note the supremely unsubtle foreshadowing when Donna says she wants to travel with the Doctor forever was a bit annoying.

[Haydn C]

They're definitely building towards something with that.

Yep that totally seems like the theme this season doesn't it.

[Stressfactor]

I gotta go with Tobias March here -- not everyone is witching because the show now isn't like it used to be.

A lot of people hated "Partners in Crime". I loved it. I thought it was fun and funny.

"Fires of Pomeii" was a beautiful episode.

I really enjoyed "Planet of the Ood" and didn't have any problems with it.

THIS epsiode had plot holes you could drive a semi-truck through. And NO, I'm NOT just nitpicking. When a script is good and tight you can ignore any plot holes. This one I couldn't get past the plot holes.

It felt rushed. I wish the Sontaran two-parter had been a one-parter and THIS story had been the two parter because it needed more breathing space. And I'm agreeing with King Mob in his assessment that this story could have used at least one re-write to catch those aforementioned plot holes and tighten things up.

And I've said it before and I'll say it again -- if you're going to use cliches (science fiction or otherwise) AT least do something to give them a twist.

The last TWO epsiodes have left me mostly 'meh' but I AM looking forward to the next one... both because it's being billed as Nu Who's first attempt at a mostly comedy episode and comedy is something Tate and Tennant do very well and also because I'm a huge Agatha Christie junkie.

[Haydn C]

I gotta go with Tobias March here -- not everyone is witching because the show now isn't like it used to be.

A lot of people hated "Partners in Crime". I loved it. I thought it was fun and funny.

"Fires of Pomeii" was a beautiful episode.

I really enjoyed "Planet of the Ood" and didn't have any problems with it.

THIS epsiode had plot holes you could drive a semi-truck through. And NO, I'm NOT just nitpicking. When a script is good and tight you can ignore any plot holes. This one I couldn't get past the plot holes.

It felt rushed. I wish the Sontaran two-parter had been a one-parter and THIS story had been the two parter because it needed more breathing space. And I'm agreeing with King Mob in his assessment that this story could have used at least one re-write to catch those aforementioned plot holes and tighten things up.

And I've said it before and I'll say it again -- if you're going to use cliches (science fiction or otherwise) AT least do something to give them a twist.

The last TWO epsiodes have left me mostly 'meh' but I AM looking forward to the next one... both because it's being billed as Nu Who's first attempt at a mostly comedy episode and comedy is something Tate and Tennant do very well and also because I'm a huge Agatha Christie junkie.

That sums up how I feel about this series very well. Thank you.

If you listen to the commentary of The Doctors Daughter you can hear Russell T frantically brushing over one of the plot holes at one point.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

I really enjoyed this episode, but I freely admit that it could be heavily influenced by the infectious charm and charisma of Georgia Moffet. The perfect nature of her being the real life Doctor's daughter gave me an excitement going into the episode, and although I too was hoping for some connection to the past, and considered a possible connection to Susan.

I don't really see how she could be Susan's mom potentially though, as the Doctor seemed to know where Susan came from, and seemed to feel Jenny was new, that all his previous progeny were lost in the time war, unable to travel through time again, erased with the majority of the Daleks. That was what I've gotten from everything, but who knows I suppose.

I look forward to seeing Jenny return at some point as a potential companion, and I am interested in the idea of rejuvenating the Time Lords slowly over time.

On a different note, was there a look of longing when Martha said goodbye to the Doctor this time? Is she not over him? The quickness with which she looked down at her ring after having such a forlorn look on her face seemed odd to me, like perhaps she was trying to remind herself of her fiancé, or snap out of something, but maybe there wasn't anything there.

[mattx110]

They're definitely building towards something with that.
That, clones, and endless war.

I thought for sure the "humans" were gonna turn out to be a lost tribe of kaleds. The set up of the episode was very "genesis" like; two camps that march towards, and endlessly kill, each other while looking for a weapon that can end it all... But it had a pretty happy ending really.

And I was almost positive The Doctor's "it's a shared history, a shared suffering..." was gonna end with, "like being a jew". Well, not really, but I wanted to make a joke.

[Captain Jim]

Remember, the Face of Bo told him "You are not alone..." He didn't say there's one other, or ten more, just that the Doctor isn't alone.

I simply took that as a hint that the Master was returning, nothing more.

[Ontir]

I think if there were ONLY one more, RTD would have said that. Part of it is surely that you don't want to paint yourself into a corner, but another part is that I believe he's got plans for other Time Lords, and sooner than later.

[king mob]

I see all the who fans belly aching how bad the show is and I just don't get it?
I have shown the show to many non doctor who fans, who hated the old show but love these newer shows.
I mean besides things are off, what is off about it?

I've outlined what my problem with this series is over the course of this thread but to summarise; formulaic scripts which need a good script editor to tighten up the gaps, by the numbers acting, recycling the same ideas & a general laziness compared to the first three years of the programme.

I will give you this, The season is very formulaic, you can expect certain things to happen by episode blah. And yes, its not as good as Season 1 but but as TV goes its alot better than many other shows on television right now.

It is but that's a weak defense of a programme that sums up many of the issues (lack of originality, fear of taking risks, style over substance) with drama on British telly in general.
Now I'm not going to sit down & watch Who and expect a Dennis Potter drama, but this series has a huge feeling of ennui all about it & that's a shame.

[king mob]

Better off ignoring them. Thier show died a long time ago, it's never coming back

The cold slap of reality is that they havent realized yet that there not eight years old anymore, there twenty-eight, thirty-eight, fourty-eight etc....thinking the show ages with them, and only the novels and the audios, which are arguable anorak-fests, reflect what they want


Errr, no. This isn't what I, and many others, would like so why be all Outpost Gallifrey in your assumptions.

[king mob]

If you listen to the commentary of The Doctors Daughter you can hear Russell T frantically brushing over one of the plot holes at one point.

That wouldn't surprise me; Davies thought writing Last Of The Time Lords in a day was something to be proud of.

[tricksterpup]

It is but that's a weak defense of a programme that sums up many of the issues (lack of originality, fear of taking risks, style over substance) with drama on British telly in general.
Now I'm not going to sit down & watch Who and expect a Dennis Potter drama, but this series has a huge feeling of ennui all about it & that's a shame.

Welcome to American Television.
But the way you describe it, it sounds like Star Trek. Series got so bad and predictable that Voyager I refused to watch. It was utter crap.

[Tobias March]

Welcome to American Television.
But the way you describe it, it sounds like Star Trek. Series got so bad and predictable that Voyager I refused to watch. It was utter crap.

You've a point. For one thing the show and Torchwood are both very much in debt to Whedon, although they still manage to be pale imitations.

This is why the Sarah Jane Adventures is better.

[king mob]

You've a point. For one thing the show and Torchwood are both very much in debt to Whedon, although they still manage to be pale imitations.

Very much so. One of the things that made the first series of Torchwood so annoying was that RTD is by far a better writer of telly drama than Whedon, so when he & most of Torchwood's writers tried to copy Whedon's writing it just didn't really work.


This is why the Sarah Jane Adventures is better.

That and the well thought out considered scripts & consistant acting.

[king mob]

A Doctor Who fan is embroiled in a row with the BBC after she published knitting patterns for the sci-fi drama's monsters on the internet.

The patterns of Ood and Adipose were removed from her website after the BBC's commercial arm complained that they breached its trademark.

But the woman said the corporation was "making an example of her".

BBC Worldwide said it acted because finished figures were being sold by others on auction website eBay.

It also denied threatening legal action and said it had offered to consider marketing the designs itself.

'Ordinary fan'

The 26-year-old, who does not want to be identified other than as her online moniker of Mazzmatazz, said: "All I want is the BBC to be fair."

"I'm just an ordinary fan, who happens to like knitting and sci-fi, and everything has just gone a bit crazy," she said on her website.

Her case is being publicised by the Open Rights Group, a lobbying organisation which specialises in digital rights issues.

Executive director Becky Hogge told BBC News: "She doesn't feel she's doing anything wrong yet she's being threatened with legal action."

"In the offline world, what she'd be doing would be fine. But because she's doing it online, which is a public space, it causes a problem.

"The law is a blunt instrument - it doesn't recognise the difference between someone hawking fake Louis Vuitton handbags, and someone doing what Mazzmatazz is doing. She's not really infringing on the commercial interests of the BBC in any way.

"I imagine the BBC's brand protection team are looking out all over the web for people infringing its trademarks and the e-mail they sent to Mazzmatazz was a stock one.

"The ripple effect of that e-mail was quite upsetting."

'Unscrupulous people'

A BBC Worldwide spokesman said it was not "heavy-handed" with "genuine fans of the show", but that it had to act in the interest of licence-fee payers by protecting the Doctor Who trademark.

"If you don't protect your trademark, it's taken away from you. And Doctor Who is massive for the BBC. It's up to us to earn money from it so we can re-invest it in the BBC," he said.

He added: "It's not that we don't admire creativity from fans - most of the time, we take the view that if it's small-scale and not for profit, then we turn a blind eye.

"This lady, with the best will in the world, wanted to share with friends, family and fans.

"But there were some unscrupulous people taking these patterns and using them on eBay to make profit for themselves. Unfortunately, we had to get to the source of the patterns - and that was her website."

Flexibility

He said that Mazzmatazz was still welcome to get in touch with BBC Worldwide to discuss the issue.

"We were offering to take her ideas to our licensing team. While we don't have any plans to offer any knitted toys, in the future, who knows?"

Ms Hogge said the case raised wider issues of intellectual property law, which is currently being reviewed by the government.

"The BBC have got a difficult situation here - the fans are a very important part of Doctor Who," she said.

"This situation shows there should be some flexibility in the law - both for fans and for the BBC."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7400268.stm

That's not too impressive really.

[Tobias March]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7400268.stm

That's not too impressive really.

I've heard about this! Online knitting patterns are the next copyright frontier. Smirk if you want - I know I did - but a friend of mine was telling me that knitting sites, seriously, are being threatened with legal action for posting patterns.

It's Napster all over again! Actually I find it very similar to the furore over posting song lyrics on fan sites, but it's knitting, so it passes under the radar.

[Omac70]

Better off ignoring them. Thier show died a long time ago, it's never coming back

The cold slap of reality is that they havent realized yet that there not eight years old anymore, there twenty-eight, thirty-eight, fourty-eight etc....thinking the show ages with them, and only the novels and the audios, which are arguable anorak-fests, reflect what they want

As I said before, my complaints (and those of most others) have nothing to do with "wanting it to be more like the old days", or the books or whatever. Stretches of the old series are garbage. Stretches of the new series are garbage. In my opinion. That's it. Simple as.

I actually even made the point of saying that I'm hoping this season can turn out to be as good as the last three years - not the twenty-six that came before that. Which should also make the point to you that the new series has produced a lot of stuff I really love!

But don't let what people have written (and carefully explained) stop you from having exactly the same kind of blinkered viewpoint that you're accusing others of having.

[Omac70]

I see all the who fans belly aching how bad the show is and I just don't get it?
It's really as simple as people being individual and having different opinions, most of the time.

And really, there's not many complaints in this thread anyway. The positive reaction far outweighs the negative - so why do some of you feel so threatened, and determined to discount any negative commentary as somehow "invalid" or having an ulterior motive?

There's certainly some belly aching in this thread. It's just not coming from the people you think it is.

[Omac70]

I caught up with Saturday's episode this morning & although it wasn't utter rubbish, it was another half arsed episode that could have done with several re-writes before filming.

Tate continues to be out of place but not as bad as expected; Agyeman needs to return full time, and Tennant really does seem like he's going through the motions at times. Georgina Moffet was sweet as Jenny & although a spin off is highly improbable, I'd expect her to pop up again in the future.

We're at the half way point of this series & I find myself not trying to get to a telly to watch the programme on Saturday night. Instead I'm happy to watch it on Iplayer & find better things to do on a Saturday nights.

A year off could do the programme good, especially if the restructuring means we get a better show when it does return for a full series in 2010.
Absolutely agree with all of that.

Tate is nowhere near as annoying as I thought she might be, but she still doesn't feel "right" - for the series or Tennant's Doctor.
Martha feels like more of a fit for him, and shouldn't have been written out in the first place (the character's returns have woefully underused her and feel like further slaps in the face for Freema).
I think Tennant is probably the best actor to have taken on the role, but all that potential is being wasted right now - forever being forced to react to an endless succession of "emotional" moments (which should be distributed more sparingly to achieve greater impact) instead of being the driving force in the action which takes us naturally to them.
The "year off" now seems like the best idea ever, as I've become completely cold to the series and it's just washing over me - so a "strategic withdrawal" (hopefully from "the formula" too) is something I definitely welcome.

[ZT4]

Blah blah blah, no fun, blah blah blah.

[ChrisIII]

You know, so many people have been wondering about who the next Doctor is going to be, I'm kind of curious as to what the costume would be like.

I suppose it'll depend on the actor. Eccleston had a radically different look than the more eccentric costumes of the other Doctors, while Tennant's, while more Doctorish, is stil kind of conservative.

Some people feel that the Doctor should return to the "victorian' look of Hartnell and Mcgann....


Also, how about a Doctor with a mustache or beard? Cushing had one, although he's a non-canon Doctor. (Tom Baker, in many of his non-Doctor roles, also sported one).

[IamtheRock3]

hey I liked it

But dont think they planning a spinoff. Just planting seeds for the future. Rember Doctor has a time machine...could meet the girl when she in the 2nd, 4th or whatever generation

Lots of possibilities.


Question Though. I am new to Doctor Who. Started when it came on Sci Fi in America

When did Doctor have other kids and what happen to them

[Tobias March]

Blah blah blah, no fun, blah blah blah.

blather blather ignorantly gnomic blather blather

[Stressfactor]

When did Doctor have other kids and what happen to them

Ignoring the books (which are not canon and confusing as hell)....

When people first met the Doctor way back in 1963 in his first incarnation he was traveling with his 15 (soon to be 16) year-old granddaughter named Susan.

The Doctor himself never spoke about his own wife or Susan's parents. More recently the 10th Doctor has mentioned a couple of times that he was a "dad" once. We do not not know if the Doctor's child was male or female ergo we don't know if it was Susan's father or Susan's mother who was the Doctor's child.

Possible Spoilers follow -- highlight to read if you don't mind the earlier stories being spoiled a bit...Originally, when Susan was about 17-18 years old she fell in love with a human young man when the TARDIS landed on Earth in the 22nd century and the Doctor pushed her to stay behind and start a new life. Nothing has been said in the new series about Susan but in the episode "The Doctor's Daughter" the Doctor tells Donna that he's been a father before and a grandfather and that the Time War took all that away from him. This would seem to confirm that Susan died in the Time War. There had been some fan speculation that when the war broke out the Time Lords recalled all the runaway and renegade Time Lords back to Gallifrey to fight. Still, all this is nothing more than fan speculation until something is put in the series.

[king mob]

I've heard about this! Online knitting patterns are the next copyright frontier. Smirk if you want - I know I did - but a friend of mine was telling me that knitting sites, seriously, are being threatened with legal action for posting patterns.

It's Napster all over again! Actually I find it very similar to the furore over posting song lyrics on fan sites, but it's knitting, so it passes under the radar.

Is it really such an issue? I'd never heard of such a thing until seeing that articke today. I don't see the issue; I got a mates kid a hand knitted Dalek for her Christmas & thought that it was the sort of cute thing young kids might like that the Beeb doesn't do. At no point did it seem as if this was anything more than a bit of fun.

[king mob]

Tate is nowhere near as annoying as I thought she might be, but she still doesn't feel "right" - for the series or Tennant's Doctor.

It's the sort of stunt casting JNT would have loved but she simply hasn't much to work with, nor is she the actress she thinks she is.

Martha feels like more of a fit for him, and shouldn't have been written out in the first place (the character's returns have woefully underused her and feel like further slaps in the face for Freema).

Ageyman is a perfect companion for Tennant; yes she isn't a great actress but although I wouldn't say shes's being snubbed, she's certainly been pushed aside to make way for Tate.

I think Tennant is probably the best actor to have taken on the role, but all that potential is being wasted right now - forever being forced to react to an endless succession of "emotional" moments (which should be distributed more sparingly to achieve greater impact) instead of being the driving force in the action which takes us naturally to them.

Tennant is one of our great young actors & this series feels like a waste of his talents, in the same way that RTD really needs to break free and write stuff as good as Bob & Rose or Queer As Folk to prove again just how good he is. Who is full to the brim of supreme talent but it's feeling just a little wasted of late.

The "year off" now seems like the best idea ever, as I've become completely cold to the series and it's just washing over me - so a "strategic withdrawal" (hopefully from "the formula" too) is something I definitely welcome.

I'd like a new Doctor, I'd like to see Davies leave and write his 30-something sequel of sorts to Queer As Folk, I'd like the programme to progress & not settle on revamping the same plots & ideas in a half arsed way.

I think much of that may well happen; a new Doctor is looking very, very likely in 2010 & the BBC are promising Davies free reign to do what he wants whether he stays with Who or not, so the future isn't bleak at all.

The programme will continue but it needs a shake up or kids will get bored of it & it'll become something watched only by hardcore fans & that's what killed it off in the first place.

[Omac70]

Blah blah blah, no fun, blah blah blah.
Which is fair enough, because you'd not really left yourself in a position where you could provide an adult answer to our points, had you?

Notice how us blinkered RTD-haters manage to construct actual arguments - using proper words and stuff like that - in response to things we don't agree with..?

...But thanks for the quick confirmation that you're incapable of a reasoned debate, and that you're actually the only person in this thread who can be said to be over-generalising and ignoring the truth in order to have a good old moan, and for proving once again that the "attacking" is only coming from one direction. It'll save a lot of time in the future not having your read your posts.

[ChrisIII]

Regarding the Doctor's family, there have been mentions of them other than Susan, most notably in "Tomb Of The Cybermen" "The Curse Of Fenric" and most infamously, the TV movie. Of course there's been a few references to them in the new series as well. Basically I think the classic series implied that when the Doctor left Gallifrey he more or less abandoned his family and didn't look back with the exception of Susan, whereas in the new series it appears they died in the time war. It's also possible that the Doctor 'settled down' at some point on Gallifrey and started a family, presumabely in his Eigth incarnation, but lost them in the Time War.


The novels take a different tack and pretty much reveal things, stating that Time Lords are more or less like Jenny-they're all sterile (Due to an ancient curse) and are actually born in machines (Called 'looms'). Looms are set up mainly as 'houses' of cousins and that's how families are on Gallifrey. The Doctor's 'house' is Lungbarrow. However not all fans have been pleased with the loom thingy, and it seems RTD isn't either, so he more or less has implied that the Doctor has a 'real' family (although RTD has written for the book line and seems appreciative of them as well as the audios and comics, he's not held to use their continuity. Kind of like how George Lucas inserted some Expanded Universe elements into the Star Wars prequels, but overall doesn't feel they're canon).


I'm sure Matt knows more about the loom concept than I do, it's been a while since I've read Lungbarrow and the other books.

[Stressfactor]

You know, so many people have been wondering about who the next Doctor is going to be, I'm kind of curious as to what the costume would be like.

I suppose it'll depend on the actor. Eccleston had a radically different look than the more eccentric costumes of the other Doctors, while Tennant's, while more Doctorish, is stil kind of conservative.

Some people feel that the Doctor should return to the "victorian' look of Hartnell and Mcgann....


Also, how about a Doctor with a mustache or beard? Cushing had one, although he's a non-canon Doctor. (Tom Baker, in many of his non-Doctor roles, also sported one).

One of my friends is not too fond of either the 9th or 10th Doctors' outfits -- he considers them too "GQ" (i.e. a little too fashionable).

Personally, I don't understand why almost all of the Doctors' outfits have been "retro" or "current". Since the Doctor travels through time I've always thought that his outfits ought to be a mixture of different eras. A jacket from the Victorian period but a shirt from the future and pants from the current era or something like that.

As for a moustache or beard... considering that the Master wore a beard for years I think producers would shy away from that out of fear of making the Doctor seem a bit too much like the Master.

[Ontir]

I was thinking about this myself. Given that the Doctor is "the Last Time Lord," and he's beginning to really understand what that means, I think the next Doctor should really play that up. None of this blending in, he should be bolder, and announce himself. I've been toying with a sketch (not gotten it right, yet) of a Doctor in a leather coat that goes up into that giant Time Lord peacock thing. Very "in your face."

I also think that Burn Gorman would be an interesting choice for the Doctor.

[Gary Joyce]

Eddie Izzard should be the next doctor.

[king mob]

Eddie Izzard should be the next doctor.

Good god no. I like the idea of Robert Carlye, but David Morrissey would be excellent which is why it's a bit of a shame that it won't happen as he's a guest in the Christmas special.

[Stressfactor]

Good god no. I like the idea of Robert Carlye, but David Morrissey would be excellent which is why it's a bit of a shame that it won't happen as he's a guest in the Christmas special.

I dunno.... Morrissey (who I had to look up on IMDB -- sorry, Yank here so I've never seen anything he's done) and Carlyle are both over 40 now and somehow I'm getting the vibe that RTD at least wants to keep the Doctor skewing pretty young.

By the time 2010 rolled around Carlyle would be nearly 50 and Morrissey would be over 45.

[Ontir]

Do we know, absolutely and for certain, that Tennant is leaving?

I've heard the rumours, but also saw something about him denying, which may just mean he's trying to stop a spoiler, but has there been an announcement?

[king mob]

There's no definate announcement about Tennant leaving but enough hints have been dropped (he's on record saying three years is enough) & next year's break is there to allow Tennant to not be tied to the role for another year.

Theres lots of reshuffling of the production team going on in Cardiff, including rumour that RTD is going to either leave (he's also on record saying that he won't be around for any more than seven years) or take a backseat to allow someone else to take over.

[Omac70]

I think it could well be the case that Tennant is just taking advantage of a "year off" that was going to happen anyway.

Budget problems have meant that there's effectively only one "team" working on all things 'Who for a little while, rather than two. Which obviously means that they can't get so much stuff filmed - no crossovers; has to be one thing at a time. So after they've done the full season of SJA, they'll film a reduced season of TW and then the three specials for DW.

Maybe giving Tennant a break and allowing time for the new 'Who production team to settle in contributed to the decision as to which of the three they'd film less of though. Otherwise, you can't see them deciding to focus more on a CBBC show than their flagship Saturday night show. Because despite the various reasons for the break they give, the BBC would be quite happy to pump out the same thing year after year as long as the ratings were good. This business of "building breaks into the show" is spin, pretty much.

And it's just a feeling, but I think Tennant will stick around for Moffat's first year. I hope he does, because it would be nice to see his Doctor within a different "style" - as good as some of his stories have been - and perhaps get a chance to bow out in a very different kind of finale to the ones we're used to.

[Ontir]

That's one of the bizarre things about the BBC. The Who-niverse is BBC's "CSI." Given it's long history and having been so successful beyond Britain, they should be allocating enough money to get the 3 series going steadily with no problem.

Giving "the Doctor" a break to do something else makes sense, but I really don't want to see him leave. Especially as we come ever closer to the 12th regeneration. They either need to keep an actor in the role (it it were an American series, they'd be signed for 7) a bit longer, or give us an explanation around the Rule of 12.

[king mob]

That's one of the bizarre things about the BBC. The Who-niverse is BBC's "CSI." Given it's long history and having been so successful beyond Britain, they should be allocating enough money to get the 3 series going steadily with no problem.

I'd honestly prefer the BBC to cancel Torchwood and pump that money into original drame of a decent quality. However Who only became credible in 2005; this hasn't stopped the BBC milking old ideas hence the Who spin offs & the return of the likes of Blakes 7 & Survivors rather than devolping new ideas.

Giving "the Doctor" a break to do something else makes sense, but I really don't want to see him leave. Especially as we come ever closer to the 12th regeneration. They either need to keep an actor in the role (it it were an American series, they'd be signed for 7) a bit longer, or give us an explanation around the Rule of 12.

The 13 regeneration rule is easy to get by & the series has made it clear that a new set of regenerations is piss easy to come across. Tennant is going to be off soon & thats part of what's great about the programme; it accepts change & it's often incredibly drastic.

[Captain Jim]

Just saw the first Sontarian episode and liked it a lot. Lots of neat stuff here: return of classic villains, return of Martha, return of Donna's family, return of UNIT. And an interesting storyline too.

Really loved watching the Doctor riding in a jeep with a UNIT soldier. Talk about deja vu!

[Captain Jim]

In case anybody missed the announcement at the end, Part 2 doesn't air until May 30. :mad:

[IamtheRock3]

Regarding the Doctor's family, there have been mentions of them other than Susan, most notably in "Tomb Of The Cybermen" "The Curse Of Fenric" and most infamously, the TV movie. Of course there's been a few references to them in the new series as well. Basically I think the classic series implied that when the Doctor left Gallifrey he more or less abandoned his family and didn't look back with the exception of Susan, whereas in the new series it appears they died in the time war. It's also possible that the Doctor 'settled down' at some point on Gallifrey and started a family, presumabely in his Eigth incarnation, but lost them in the Time War.


The novels take a different tack and pretty much reveal things, stating that Time Lords are more or less like Jenny-they're all sterile (Due to an ancient curse) and are actually born in machines (Called 'looms'). Looms are set up mainly as 'houses' of cousins and that's how families are on Gallifrey. The Doctor's 'house' is Lungbarrow. However not all fans have been pleased with the loom thingy, and it seems RTD isn't either, so he more or less has implied that the Doctor has a 'real' family (although RTD has written for the book line and seems appreciative of them as well as the audios and comics, he's not held to use their continuity. Kind of like how George Lucas inserted some Expanded Universe elements into the Star Wars prequels, but overall doesn't feel they're canon).


I'm sure Matt knows more about the loom concept than I do, it's been a while since I've read Lungbarrow and the other books.


So basicly the doctor was a dead beat dad


Oh but he nice to his grandkid...isnt that always the case

can imagine his son saying "Wait my daughter get taken into a time machine...you never took me in a time machine when I was a kid"

[Matt]

Last I checked, Lungburrow is still available to read for free on the BBC Dr Who site. It's actually quite a good read.

[Holacik]

In case anybody missed the announcement at the end, Part 2 doesn't air until May 30. :mad: Yea that sucks, It's going to be hard to wait two weeks and not try to catch up to Britian and start look up Eps on-line.

[Stony]

Merging...

[Omac70]

Giving "the Doctor" a break to do something else makes sense, but I really don't want to see him leave. Especially as we come ever closer to the 12th regeneration. They either need to keep an actor in the role (it it were an American series, they'd be signed for 7) a bit longer, or give us an explanation around the Rule of 12.
Even though the limit of 13 lives has only been mentioned once or twice in the series, I don't think they'd ignore it. In fact, when it comes to that time I'd expect they'd make quite a bit of it. The Doctor lies dying...we've been reminded that he is only supposed to regenerate so many times...looks like it really could be the end...

...And then he gets up again, complete with new face and personality. However they do it - and there's probably a few ways, if it even needs to be explained at all - there's no way they'd stick with what is a relatively obscure point of continuity if it meant the show had to end.

Effectively, The Doctor is immortal and has infinite regenerations as long as the show is successful (and even it became less popular, I can't see them killing him off as it would stop them bringing it back). But the ideal approach is to not actually mention this within the show, as a Doctor with endless lives would completely rob the show of any suspense.or drama - and make things a little silly. Far better to ignore it until he's in his 13th body, when some drama could be wrung out of the fact that (as far as he and everybody else knows) he won't regenerate if something nasty happens. Of course, he will - but that's not the point.

[Stressfactor]

"The Unicorn and the Wasp"

Well, it was an enjoyable piece of fluff... but then, that's all it aspired to be. The 'wasp' part did get a little silly -- and not in the enjoyable way -- more in the 'really hard to swallow' way.

Also, as a Christie fan myself I actually was distrracted by all the name dropping of titles of her books in the episode.

The ones I found:

Why Didn't They Ask Evans
The Body in the Library
The Secret Adversary
Nemesis
Cat Among the Pigeons
Dead Man's Folly
They Do It With Mirrors
Sparkling Cyanide
Endless Night
Crooked House
Death Comes as the End
Murder at the Vicarage
Taken at the Flood

[ZT4]

I liked the last fifteen minutes, but that ought to have been the full thrust of the plot...and they ought to have had a heartbroken, disillusioned Agatha be the murderer...then lose all memory of it and The Doctor elect to keep history a painted portrait rather than mess with it. Tough choices similar to condeming Pompei.

[Darkhalen]

Well i enjoyed this episode, not as good as it could have been, but still not bad at all.

[Donald M.]

The ones I found:

Why Didn't They Ask Evans
The Body in the Library
The Secret Adversary
Nemesis
Cat Among the Pigeons
Dead Man's Folly
They Do It With Mirrors
Sparkling Cyanide
Endless Night
Crooked House
Death Comes as the End
Murder at the Vicarage
Taken at the Flood

A couple more you didn't mention:

Murder on the Orient Express (Just forgot about this fairly obvious one, I suppose?)
N or M?
Cards on the Table
The Moving Finger
Death in the Clouds

[Tobias March]

I thought it was great fun. I think we saw the treatment of Christie as representing the main thrust of RTD's ideas on the show, a resentment of elitism (the Doctor's cultish fanbase) and snobbery (Shakespeare is a bit of a yob; Christie tortures herself over never becoming a great writer).

The Doctor following this aims for middle of the road Saturday night viewing for all the family. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I enjoyed last nights as it seemed to the balance right after three weeks of murderous clones.

[Stressfactor]

A couple more you didn't mention:

Murder on the Orient Express (Just forgot about this fairly obvious one, I suppose?)

I didn't count that one because it was a deliberate reference to a title and they actually made a point about it being a title -- I only counted the ones that were "hidden" in the regular dialogue.

But yeah, I missed the other ones. Of course, I'm also watching these off of YouTube with a really crappy set of speakers on my computer so some of the dialogue occasionally gets swallowed.

Still, now I'll have to go back to catch the ones I missed!

[king mob]

The Doctor following this aims for middle of the road Saturday night viewing for all the family. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I enjoyed last nights as it seemed to the balance right after three weeks of murderous clones.

It was an improvement after the last three weeks of average scripts but it felt like a wasted opportunity to do something truely great. However the next episode looks incredibly interesting, shame it's not on for a fortnight because of Eurovision.

[mattx110]

It was an improvement after the last three weeks of average scripts but it felt like a wasted opportunity to do something truely great. However the next episode looks incredibly interesting, shame it's not on for a fortnight because of Eurovision.
Although, what's more fun than Eurovision?

[Ontir]

The only thing I was disappointed with, was that those 10 days would've been a great opportunity to make Agatha Christie a companion of the Doctor's. I love the actress who played Christie.

[drwho]

Would it turn off viewers if the doctor was elderly?

[Stressfactor]

The music for this episode was also pretty interesting. In several places it reminded me of the music used in the Albert Campion Mysteries series...

[ZT4]

Interesting spoiler I was surprised on without warning during a review of a new action figure set

It follows up on another strong possibility that The Doctor will be "split in half" after a dodgy regeneration, Tennant remains The Doctor, but will be seperated from a more aggresive side that adapts a "Harold Saxon" look, essentially a modern version of The Valeyard

[Typo Lad]

I rather liked the exchange between the Doctor and Donna towards the end

"It didn't have a choice!"
"Yeah well, neither did I."

We've seen the Doctor go on and on about choices. I don't know if this was always a theme, as I just came on with "Rose", but Tennent's Doctor especially seems to make a theme of it. Most recently with the Sontorans.

Will Donna's usurpage of choice become a sticking point?

Also, first we had two espisodes in a row with cloned warriors, now two set in a library. Are we seeing a "dual" theme? Forshadowsing for the rumor ZT4 mentions?

Anyone else getting tired of the "foreshadowing" with the bees? A lot less subtle than "Bad Wolf".

[Alan Lynch]

Anyone else getting tired of the "foreshadowing" with the bees? A lot less subtle than "Bad Wolf".
I think the reverse is true myself; Bad Wolf was really hard to miss. I've only picked up on the bees thing on second viewings - although I'll give you this episode. There wasn't much hiding it here.

I'm worried I might be building up Moffat's episodes too much. If this library story isn't drop-dead perfect I'll be disappointed, which hardly seems fair.

[ZT4]

Moffat has written some weak sauce before for shows that he wrote every episode for (like Press Gang), and there's often always a redeeming aspect to them. For example, there this hysterical cay/bird/dog scene in "Windfall", a low-point for that series.

[Alan Lynch]

Moffat has written some weak sauce before for shows that he wrote every episode for (like Press Gang), and there's often always a redeeming aspect to them. For example, there this hysterical cay/bird/dog scene in "Windfall", a low-point for that series.
Hell, I'm not that big a fan of Coupling, and Jekyll lost it's way a bit halfway through. But his Doctor Who thus far has been nothing short of brilliant. I'm quite worried that one year he's going to turn in something merely good and I'll crucify him for it. Which would be harsh.

[SPAfreak]

Hell, I'm not that big a fan of Coupling, and Jekyll lost it's way a bit halfway through. But his Doctor Who thus far has been nothing short of brilliant. I'm quite worried that one year he's going to turn in something merely good and I'll crucify him for it. Which would be harsh.

Personally I'm a little worried that the "look out for the shadows" bit reminded me too much of Blink. Part of me feels like I should be over the moon but I don't want repetition that's less than the near-perfection of the original.

[Stressfactor]

There was something that really kind of jarred me at the beginning of "The Unicorn and the Wasp" and that was how the Doctor and Donna got involved. Somehow crashing a party in the 1920's seems a little frivolous even for the Doctor.

And before someone brings up "Black Orchid" at least that was a case of mistaken identity rather than the Doctor deliberately making the crash.

[Typo Lad]

I don't know... isn't that what this version mostly does? Set out to show his companion a good time and find out Something is Up?

[king mob]

Although, what's more fun than Eurovision?

Nothing. It's a wonderful bit of camp glory that reminds how great Terry Wogan is.

[king mob]

I think the reverse is true myself; Bad Wolf was really hard to miss. I've only picked up on the bees thing on second viewings - although I'll give you this episode. There wasn't much hiding it here.



The bee thing isn't anywhere near as annoying as the Torchwood stuff in the second series. That just stretched things a tad.

[king mob]

Hell, I'm not that big a fan of Coupling, and Jekyll lost it's way a bit halfway through. But his Doctor Who thus far has been nothing short of brilliant. I'm quite worried that one year he's going to turn in something merely good and I'll crucify him for it. Which would be harsh.

Jekyll had four good episodes then fell to pieces at the end, however his Who stuff has been as good as you can get so I'm still optomistic that his story might help save this series from being poor.

[king mob]

And before someone brings up "Black Orchid" at least that was a case of mistaken identity rather than the Doctor deliberately making the crash.

Black Orchid is a gem of a story & avoided cramming an alien baddie in for the sake of it. I'm getting tired of seeing alien DNA used as a plot point again in the series.
Also the idea that Felicity Kendal (another guest star wasted) would shag a wasp is pushing the lose credibility of the programme a bit.

[Typo Lad]

Black Orchid is a gem of a story & avoided cramming an alien baddie in for the sake of it. I'm getting tired of seeing alien DNA used as a plot point again in the series.
Also the idea that Felicity Kendal (another guest star wasted) would shag a wasp is pushing the lose credibility of the programme a bit.
No, she shagged a person who turned out to be a wasp.

[Tobias March]

Also the idea that Felicity Kendal (another guest star wasted) would shag a wasp is pushing the lose credibility of the programme a bit.

Red Dwarf: "last month, we came across a moon shaped like Felicity Kendal's bottom. We flew around that one a couple of times".

[Stressfactor]

I don't know... isn't that what this version mostly does? Set out to show his companion a good time and find out Something is Up?

Yeah but its kind of like the difference between joining the crowd at Queen Elizabeth II's coronation and getting yourself into the coronation banquet. One just about any joe on the street can do the other is being a bit of a show-off and really rather invading someone's privacy.

Although, probably the best bit in the whole episode was when the Doctor catches the 'flashback' bug and recalls an adventure in Belgium rescuing Charlemagne from an insane computer... that actually sounded like a pretty good story -- wish we could see *that* one.

[Spike-X]

Anyone else getting tired of the "foreshadowing" with the bees?

Is it foreshadowing, or just a bit of a running gag? Just something that Donna has a bee in her bonnet (HA!!) about?

A lot less subtle than "Bad Wolf".


Bad Wolf was subtle?

[Tobias March]

Is it foreshadowing, or just a bit of a running gag? Just something that Donna has a bee in her bonnet (HA!!) about?

I agree I don't see this as foreshadowing so much as a genuine concern with someone from our time. What the hell is happening with the bees!?

[Stressfactor]

Well thay've already got that whole "we're not a couple" running gag... which I wish to heaven they would stop with! Worst. Running. Joke. EVER!

[Typo Lad]

Well thay've already got that whole "we're not a couple" running gag... which I wish to heaven they would stop with! Worst. Running. Joke. EVER!
Oh yeah, that's just horrid. It was old the second time they did it.

[Spike-X]

Hell, it was old the first time they did it.

[ChrisIII]

Speaking of Moffat, it's finally official: He's the new showrunner for season 5-???:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2008/05_may/20/who.shtml

And as the Sixth Doctor said, "Not a moment too soon!" RTD's getting a little stale and it's time for some fresh blood.


I'm guessing they might start out Moffat's run with a brand-new Doctor, not sure then.

[Typo Lad]

Speaking of Moffat, it's finally official: He's the new showrunner for season 5-???:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2008/05_may/20/who.shtml

And as the Sixth Doctor said, "Not a moment too soon!" RTD's getting a little stale and it's time for some fresh blood.


I'm guessing they might start out Moffat's run with a brand-new Doctor, not sure then.
Good news, we hope.

[Ontir]

Well, it's good to know that Who's in good hands. I'll miss RTD, he did a great job of re-launching the series. Hopefully he'll stick with Torchwood, because while I like it, I think season 2 needed a bit more attention.

As for the "We're not a couple..." thing, I think the whole point is that they will be.

[Stressfactor]

As for the "We're not a couple..." thing, I think the whole point is that they will be.

No offense Ontir but...... Aaaaggghhhhhh!!! NO! The LAST thing the series needs in another companion falling in love with the Doctor.

[Omac70]

Speaking of Moffat, it's finally official: He's the new showrunner for season 5-???:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2008/05_may/20/who.shtml


Nice to have it finally confirmed. I've been saying this for weeks.

Not too busy to take on his dream job after all.

[Tobias March]

Speaking of Moffat, it's finally official: He's the new showrunner for season 5-???:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2008/05_may/20/who.shtml

And as the Sixth Doctor said, "Not a moment too soon!" RTD's getting a little stale and it's time for some fresh blood.


I'm guessing they might start out Moffat's run with a brand-new Doctor, not sure then.

Fandabbydoozy!

[Spike-X]

As for the "We're not a couple..." thing, I think the whole point is that they will be.

I don't think so. At least, I hope like hell not. I think it's just a lame running gag.

[Captain Jim]

Speaking of Moffat, it's finally official: He's the new showrunner for season 5-???:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2008/05_may/20/who.shtml

And as the Sixth Doctor said, "Not a moment too soon!" RTD's getting a little stale and it's time for some fresh blood.


I'm guessing they might start out Moffat's run with a brand-new Doctor, not sure then.

This is wonderful news! Moffat is my absolute favorite Doctor Who writer! I've loved all of the episodes he's written!

[Omac70]

It's also got to be encouraging, and something that says a great deal about how much he loves the show, that he's effectively ruling himself out of working with Spielberg again in the near future by taking this on.

I know the Tintin stuff (another possible 2 scripts to write) was one reason why people were sceptical when I said this was happening some time ago...but I always suspected...if there was one thing that could take Moffat away from Hollywood and his own freedoms...it would be 'Who.

That's got to be good for us, hasn't it?

[ZT4]

I'm glad Moffet has the posistion, it might mean he'll be able to draw in Paul Cornell for extra episodes. I hope he doesnt leave out other novel writers in the cold like RTD occasionly did.

And then of course, you consider he's written series like Press Gang and Coupling entirely by himself...

[king mob]

Speaking of Moffat, it's finally official: He's the new showrunner for season 5-???:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/pressoffice/pressreleases/stories/2008/05_may/20/who.shtml

And as the Sixth Doctor said, "Not a moment too soon!" RTD's getting a little stale and it's time for some fresh blood.


Great news. I really hope RTD goes off and reminds everyone why he's the best writer of telly drama in the UK & turns out stuff as brilliant as Bob & Rose or Queer As Folk.
It'll be interesting to see if Moffat is a showrunner in the American sense, or ends up being a tradition British drama producer. I'd hope for the latter & the former doesn't work in British telly.

I'm guessing they might start out Moffat's run with a brand-new Doctor, not sure then.

It's bit of a Who tradition that a new producer has his own Doctor. I'd guess that now Moffat has been confirmed that the BBC won't confirm whether Tennant is leaving until at least the end of this series.

[Stressfactor]

It's bit of a Who tradition that a new producer has his own Doctor. I'd guess that now Moffat has been confirmed that the BBC won't confirm whether Tennant is leaving until at least the end of this series.

Well, announcing it now might overshadow the season finale.

When did this tradition of a new producer getting a new Doctor start? I'm curious since Tom Baker went through several producers as I recall and didn't JNT stay on through a couple of different Doctors?

[Ontir]

No offense Ontir but...... Aaaaggghhhhhh!!! NO! The LAST thing the series needs in another companion falling in love with the Doctor.

It depends on where the relationship goes. Just 'cuz he gets her, doesn't mean he gets to keep her. She could always go the way of Adric!

I think John Nathan Turner was on partway through Baker, then all the way through Davison, and into Colin Baker.

Since Moffat has written for Tennant, I can't see he'd have a problem continuing. I hope Tennant doesn't leave, because I really like him. If he does, maybe the new Doctor will be someone Donna just can't keep her hands off of, and the "new" Doctor will be enough over Rose to go for it.

[king mob]

Well, announcing it now might overshadow the season finale.

When did this tradition of a new producer getting a new Doctor start? I'm curious since Tom Baker went through several producers as I recall and didn't JNT stay on through a couple of different Doctors?

It goes back to Troughton/Pertwee through to JNT who ended up stuck in the executive producer job because nobody else in the BBC wanted it.

[king mob]

Since Moffat has written for Tennant, I can't see he'd have a problem continuing. I hope Tennant doesn't leave, because I really like him. If he does, maybe the new Doctor will be someone Donna just can't keep her hands off of, and the "new" Doctor will be enough over Rose to go for it.

Tate's only around for this series so they'll be a new companion for when Moffat takes over. We know Tennant is sticking around for the specials next year but hasn't confirmed anything beyond that, so the assumption based upon what he's said is that he'll be off in 2010.

A fresh start in 2010 would be great in order to let Moffat make the programme his & develop as he wants it to go.

[Alan Lynch]

God, I was so happy when I saw that this morning. It's perfect, and I can't wait for Moffat's run to start. Presumably this means he'll have a say in the specials, certainly the last one, in order to set things up for the full series?

[Captain Jim]

Tate's only around for this series so they'll be a new companion for when Moffat takes over. We know Tennant is sticking around for the specials next year but hasn't confirmed anything beyond that, so the assumption based upon what he's said is that he'll be off in 2010.

A fresh start in 2010 would be great in order to let Moffat make the programme his & develop as he wants it to go.

I hadn't heard that about Tate, but was wondering if that might be the case. That's definite, then? And does that mean no companion during the specials--or do we know yet?

[Ontir]

Tate's only around for this series so they'll be a new companion for when Moffat takes over. We know Tennant is sticking around for the specials next year but hasn't confirmed anything beyond that, so the assumption based upon what he's said is that he'll be off in 2010.

A fresh start in 2010 would be great in order to let Moffat make the programme his & develop as he wants it to go.

That makes sense. I still think he and Donna may give in, only to lose her, as in her being killed. It's only happened once before, and that was a long time ago. Also, for a character who insists she's going to travel with the Doctor forever, having her suddenly turn on that, and go home doesn't make much sense.

[ZT4]

I think John Nathan Turner was on partway through Baker, then all the way through Davison, and into Colin Baker.

JNT was the longest running producer the original series had. He stayed through Baker's final season, then for the tenures of Davison, Colin Baker, and Mccoy. The difference in storylines during that point was when Eric Saward departed as script-editor and JNT hired Andrew Cartmel, who all but essentially ran the show with Ben Arranovitch where as JNT took more of a back-seat.

[Ontir]

Thanks, I'm the least familiar with McCoy's tenure, as those shows ran more sporadically in Rochester, and usually while I was delivering Pizzas, so I only saw them in dribs and drabs.

[king mob]

God, I was so happy when I saw that this morning. It's perfect, and I can't wait for Moffat's run to start. Presumably this means he'll have a say in the specials, certainly the last one, in order to set things up for the full series?


The specials are all written by RTD but there's no announcement in regards the 2009 Christmas special which should be Moffat's first full episode.

[king mob]

I hadn't heard that about Tate, but was wondering if that might be the case. That's definite, then? And does that mean no companion during the specials--or do we know yet?

Rumours from the filming last month for this years Christmas special in Gloucester suggest that Billie Piper is around but not in a major role. Basically nobody knows for sure yet.

[king mob]

JNT was the longest running producer the original series had. He stayed through Baker's final season, then for the tenures of Davison, Colin Baker, and Mccoy. The difference in storylines during that point was when Eric Saward departed as script-editor and JNT hired Andrew Cartmel, who all but essentially ran the show with Ben Arranovitch where as JNT took more of a back-seat.


JNT never took a back seat; the old BBC executive producer role was god-like, but by the time JNT brought Cartmel in (after arguing with Saward for years) he allowed him a bigger role in running the programme but ultimately JNT controlled everything.

[Alan Lynch]

The specials are all written by RTD but there's no announcement in regards the 2009 Christmas special which should be Moffat's first full episode.
I thought the Christmas show was being counted as one of the specials? So really there's 5 next year then. Excellent.

[ChrisIII]

I'd like to see Moffat's take on classic series monsters. While he's created some classic monsters of his own (Gas mask zombies, Weeping angels etc.) I wouldn't mind seeing his take on some baddies. Not necesarilly the "big three" (Daleks, Cybermen, master-the first and the latter which we kind of got in Moffat's COFD anyway) but I think he would work wonders with the Autons. Although they were in "Rose" they were kind of pushed to the side with the story focusing on the Doctor and Rose.

[king mob]

I thought the Christmas show was being counted as one of the specials? So really there's 5 next year then. Excellent.

There's still four. This years Christmas special is the last of RTD's episodes, while the other specials with be shown over three bank holiday weekends (Easter, May and August) next year. Then it's a bit unclear if Moffat will write the 2009 Christmas special to kick off his run on the programme.
The word is everything will be clarified after series four is completed.

[Ontir]

I'd like to see a "3 Doctors" episode. Bring Paul McGann back (I theorize it was his Doctor who fought and barely survived the time war, only to regenerate into Eccleston's. I also theorize that, despite the "beside continuity" appearance of Davison, it's not possible to have the previous incarnations appear, as they perished in the time war.), along with Tennants and the next Doctor, maybe giving us a glimpse of the new Doctor, prior to his regeneration. We've never seen that before.

[Omac70]

I'd like to see a "3 Doctors" episode. Bring Paul McGann back (I theorize it was his Doctor who fought and barely survived the time war, only to regenerate into Eccleston's. I also theorize that, despite the "beside continuity" appearance of Davison, it's not possible to have the previous incarnations appear, as they perished in the time war.), along with Tennants and the next Doctor, maybe giving us a glimpse of the new Doctor, prior to his regeneration. We've never seen that before.
I know this has been a "rumour" (more like wishful thinking) since before the new series even started...but it seems very likely that we may be seeing McGann in one of the specials next year. And people may scoff, but it's always been way more likely than Eccleston ever coming back. Thankfully.

Perhaps we may well be getting something quite similar to your "glimpse" idea fairly soon too - somewhere within the rumours that are flying about concerning both the xmas special and the 13th episode.

...I actually thought that effectively removing the lead actor from the season finale last year was just as stupid a decision as the one which saw him appearing in his opening episode for all of 15 minutes... But if they were determined to do something like that, why not have a "false regeneration" then instead of a shitty CGI goblin? You could have someone extraordinarily famous as The Doctor for 50 minutes - pulling in publicity by temporarily securing the services of someone who wouldn't be interested in the "long haul".

...Or just ask Hugh Grant again, seeing as he now regrets turning down the opportunity of playing the part for that first season. :smile:

[Ontir]

I didn't know that Grant had been offered/refused the part.

Had he taken it, the show would probably have been snatched up by a broadcast network in America, instead of belatedly by the sci-fi channel. I'm sure that was the intention.

It would also have boosted Grant's now sagging Q Rating, to boot.

[Captain Jim]

The specials are all written by RTD...


This years Christmas special is the last of RTD's episodes...

Okay, now I'm confused. Which is it? :confused:

[Ontir]

I think it means that this year, 2008's Christmas Special will be RTD's last.

[king mob]

I know this has been a "rumour" (more like wishful thinking) since before the new series even started...but it seems very likely that we may be seeing McGann in one of the specials next year. And people may scoff, but it's always been way more likely than Eccleston ever coming back. Thankfully.

Now there's been a shake up in the production staff (though he never had an issue with RTD) Eccleston may well return, especially as he seems to be trying to get in as many genre pieces as possible. McGann is gagging to appear & yes I've heard the same rumours about next years specials & that could be very cool.

...I actually thought that effectively removing the lead actor from the season finale last year was just as stupid a decision as the one which saw him appearing in his opening episode for all of 15 minutes... But if they were determined to do something like that, why not have a "false regeneration" then instead of a shitty CGI goblin? You could have someone extraordinarily famous as The Doctor for 50 minutes - pulling in publicity by temporarily securing the services of someone who wouldn't be interested in the "long haul".


RTD is proud that it took him a day to write Last Of The Time Lords. That's the problem, it was a 'that'll do' script with a ridiculous end which was a shame as the previous two RTD scripts were excellent.

I'm hoping they'll be an increase in quality control when Moffat takes over, or at least they get a decent script editor.

[king mob]

I didn't know that Grant had been offered/refused the part.

Had he taken it, the show would probably have been snatched up by a broadcast network in America, instead of belatedly by the sci-fi channel. I'm sure that was the intention.

It would also have boosted Grant's now sagging Q Rating, to boot.

I think it was when the programme was first rumoured to return in 2000 that Grant was offered the part. It would have been a huge mistake though you're right, the Americans would have lapped it up.

[king mob]

I think it means that this year, 2008's Christmas Special will be RTD's last.

Whoops. Yes, I meant it's RTD's last Christmas special, though it's not been ruled out that RTD won't turn in the odd script for Moffat.

[Omac70]

Now there's been a shake up in the production staff (though he never had an issue with RTD) Eccleston may well return, especially as he seems to be trying to get in as many genre pieces as possible. McGann is gagging to appear & yes I've heard the same rumours about next years specials & that could be very cool.
I would love to see it happen too. There's something just "not right" about the fact that the eighth Doctor only has one TV adventure to his name, and McGann has done sterling work both as an actor and as an ambassador for the show over the past seven or eight years. I think with him particularly, we can say "if he didn't enjoy doing it he wouldn't be there" and his enthusiasm for a potential return just makes me look forward to it even more.

It'll be just about the last BIG thing left for Russell to do before he goes, so fingers crossed. I won't deny my Inner Fanboy by pretending that I don't like multi-Doctor stories...if that's indeed what it's going to be...and as lovely as it was to see Davison, McGann's the one who really should come back.

As for Eccleston...well, anything's possible, you're right. I'm not his biggest fan but that doesn't actually mean I wouldn't like to see him come back at some point. Somehow it would feel "right" if that happened too. 50th anniversary, perhaps..? :smile:

RTD is proud that it took him a day to write Last Of The Time Lords. That's the problem, it was a 'that'll do' script with a ridiculous end which was a shame as the previous two RTD scripts were excellent.
Agreed on both counts. It's just a matter of individual taste of course, but anything other than what they did there would have been preferable... Felt like a real squandered opportunity after the excellent buildup, and I loved the previous two finales.

A day you say..? I'm surprised it took that long.

[ZT4]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfgRFluxhg8

Trailer for the final six episodes

[Spike-X]

A day you say..? I'm surprised it took that long.

He probably kept having to stop to pat himself on the back.

"Brilliant! Fantastic!"

[Omac70]

The mid-season trailer shown earlier tonight did more for me in 60 seconds than the last five episodes put together. I mean, I know that's what trailers are meant to do, but...

Rose...Daleks...Davros...(knew about all that, but strangely it's got me interested again)...stars going out...The Darkness...a suggestion that the final six episodes are going to be closely linked...drama with more repercussions and less flippancy...

The sort of stuff I want to see.

...I'm glad that the first half of this season has been so successful, and that people are enjoying it. But when people say to disgruntled fans, "you're only complaining because they're not making the show the way you want to see it"... Well. What else are we supposed to base our opinions on? 9 million viewers is obviously great for the show, but it doesn't automatically mean that I'm going to like what they're doing...

Everyone has their own idea of what they'd ideally like to see 'Who doing. Hopefully the last half of the season is going to be more to my taste - and hugely successful, of course! Certainly this is the most excited I've been since the last 15 minutes of Utopia...

[Omac70]

He probably kept having to stop to pat himself on the back.

"Brilliant! Fantastic!"

:biggrin:

I do love quite a few of Russell's episodes, and think he's done a great job in getting 'Who back where it belongs...and there's no reason for him to be overly modest, but...he does talk a load of crap at times and despite what his most rabid supporters might suggest, it is possible to dislike some of his work without also wanting to see the man lynched..! And I think S4 (so far) is possibly the worst season of 'Who ever, whilst episodes like Parting of the Ways, Doomsday & Utopia are amongst the finest the series has ever offered...

Find it hard to believe he thinks admitting that script took only one day to write is a good thing though.

[ZT4]

"The Darkness" revealed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-4VOLeKBOw

[Omac70]

:biggrin:

...That would surely be the most horrible thing The Doctor has ever faced!

[Spike-X]

"The Darkness" revealed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-4VOLeKBOw
Heh. My first thought when I saw the trailer; "They're getting back together!"

[rick]

"The Darkness" revealed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-4VOLeKBOw


That is a really awful band.

[Spike-X]

That is a really awful band.
You think? I thought they were hilarious.

[rick]

You think? I thought they were hilarious.


The video was fun but the tune did grate.

[rick]

Here's the mid-season trailer.....

Doctor Who Series 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77xq9nw_v6s)

[Spike-X]

I meant the band as a whole. Like Spinal Tap if Spinal Tap were in on the joke.

Even their guitar solos were funny.

[king mob]

...I'm glad that the first half of this season has been so successful, and that people are enjoying it. But when people say to disgruntled fans, "you're only complaining because they're not making the show the way you want to see it"... Well. What else are we supposed to base our opinions on? 9 million viewers is obviously great for the show, but it doesn't automatically mean that I'm going to like what they're doing...

This series of Who has been getting an average audience of 6 million, decent but it's done better. The return of Davros and the Daleks returning to be serious vilians after last years bollocks is to be applauded.

My only concern is that we have Davros, Daleks, Rose, Martha, Sarah Jane (K9?) Captain Jack & bloody Catherine Tate to cram into the last three episodes & everything could be swamped.

[king mob]

Find it hard to believe he thinks admitting that script took only one day to write is a good thing though.

He does. Which coming from someone who wrote something as sublime as Bob & Rose is painful. RTD is wonderful, but his Who work lacks the quality of the majority of his previous work & as he leaves, it feels like he's never lived to his potential.

[rick]

I meant the band as a whole. Like Spinal Tap if Spinal Tap were in on the joke.

Even their guitar solos were funny.

Now don't I feel stupid, I thought they were serious. :tongue:

[ZT4]

I think Russel is the series most underrated writer, rated primarily on his interview style ("Oh, Hitler would make a great Time Lord, anyone who hates my stuff ISNT gay" etc), his pantomime style, and his Doctor Ex Machina finales, but in between he actually does write some good standalone episodes, and I do enjoy his finales tremendously.

What made "Sound of Drums" fairly creepier at the time was the Glasgow Airport attack occured just after The Master sent down The Toclafane. Life imitates art.

[Spike-X]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/caffeinejunkie/the_darkness.jpg

[Spike-X]

I think Russel is the series most underrated writer, rated primarily on his interview style ("Oh, Hitler would make a great Time Lord, anyone who hates my stuff ISNT gay" etc), his pantomime style, and his Doctor Ex Machina finales, but in between he actually does write some good standalone episodes, and I do enjoy his finales tremendously.

http://pics.livejournal.com/rainoftoads/pic/00047y2e

[Omac70]

My only concern is that we have Davros, Daleks, Rose, Martha, Sarah Jane (K9?) Captain Jack & bloody Catherine Tate to cram into the last three episodes & everything could be swamped.
...and more...and yes, initially I thought it was rather stupid to try and put so much into the finale... "bigger is better" thinking again and trying to outdo themselves (where do you go next?)... But on the most basic level, I guess it excites me in the same way The Five Doctors did before that was broadcast - sure, I was only 13 then but I could stand to be excited again! And hopefully it's going to be as dramatic as it seems it's going to be...

(And I think a lot of the "other people" are going to be quite peripheral to proceedings, so hopefully it'll maintain some focus).

Find it hard to believe he thinks admitting that script took only one day to write is a good thing though.
He does. Which coming from someone who wrote something as sublime as Bob & Rose is painful. RTD is wonderful, but his Who work lacks the quality of the majority of his previous work & as he leaves, it feels like he's never lived to his potential.
Oh, I'm not doubting that he said that...but it's still hard to believe!

I have to admit that I haven't seen a huge amount of his other work, but what I have seen didn't really grab me. After all the hype and claims of "greatest living writer" or whatever, what he does most of the time seems very...ordinary. I just don't see what all the fuss is about.

But different strokes and all that. And I only base my opinions on what these people actually write, rather than what they say (Moffat can come up with some real crap in interviews too).

[Spike-X]

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x149/Firestorm17/Doctor%20Who%20Macros/napoleonmaster.jpg

[king mob]

I think Russel is the series most underrated writer, rated primarily on his interview style ("Oh, Hitler would make a great Time Lord, anyone who hates my stuff ISNT gay" etc), his pantomime style, and his Doctor Ex Machina finales, but in between he actually does write some good standalone episodes, and I do enjoy his finales tremendously.

Not at all, most of the criticism of Davies comes from the increasingly shoddy nature of his scripts compared to the high standard of his work previous to Who.

What made "Sound of Drums" fairly creepier at the time was the Glasgow Airport attack occured just after The Master sent down The Toclafane. Life imitates art.

Eh really? A twat in a Land Rover is not the apocalypse.

[king mob]

I have to admit that I haven't seen a huge amount of his other work, but what I have seen didn't really grab me. After all the hype and claims of "greatest living writer" or whatever, what he does most of the time seems very...ordinary. I just don't see what all the fuss is about.


The obvious one is Queer As Folk, but it's Bob & Rose that really defines Davies as our best telly drama writer today. They're worth searcing out again as a reminder how good Davies is.

[Ontir]

Eh really? A twat in a Land Rover is not the apocalypse.

You've never driven in LA!

...but by God they should work that line into a Torchwood ep!!!

[ZT4]

Eh really? A twat in a Land Rover is not the apocalypse.

Ask Transformers fans (Spike in Houd)

[mattx110]

Hey, any Sylvester McCoy fans have any favorite episodes?

He's a terrific actor and I've never seen anything but his 10 minutes in the 96 movie.

[Paul McEnery]

Not at all, most of the criticism of Davies comes from the increasingly shoddy nature of his scripts compared to the high standard of his work previous to Who.


Eh really? A twat in a Land Rover is not the apocalypse.

A twat in a Land Rover is fast and bulbous.

[ZT4]

Hey, any Sylvester McCoy fans have any favorite episodes?

He's a terrific actor and I've never seen anything but his 10 minutes in the 96 movie.

Original Series

-Dragonfire
-Remembrance of the Daleks
-The Greatest Show In The Galaxy
-Silver Nemesis
-Battlefield
-Ghost Light
-Survival

Big Finish

-The Fearmonger
-The Genocide Machine
-Night Thoughts
-Master
-Return of the Daleks
-Excelis Decays
-Valhalla


It's a pity that BF didnt adapt some of the classic NAs for adaptation (since they used Benny as a companion), the original "Human Nature" would have been fascinating to hear with Mccoy in the role.

[Alan Lynch]

But different strokes and all that. And I only base my opinions on what these people actually write, rather than what they say (Moffat can come up with some real crap in interviews too).
I'm sure I've read somewhere that Moffat got into an argument online with some folks who hated The Girl in the Fireplace. Which I find reassuringly geeky; helps that I adore the episode in question as well.
The obvious one is Queer As Folk, but it's Bob & Rose that really defines Davies as our best telly drama writer today. They're worth searcing out again as a reminder how good Davies is.
I loved Second Coming. Really clever concept with a great turn from Christopher Eccleston as well.

[Matt]

Hey, any Sylvester McCoy fans have any favorite episodes?

He's a terrific actor and I've never seen anything but his 10 minutes in the 96 movie.

'Tis my favourite Doctor! Recommended stories:
Ghost Light
Remembrance of the Daleks
Survival
Silver Nemesis
Curse of Fenric
Battlefield

That being said, the start of McCoy's run was complete rubbish with horrible nonsense such as Time and the Rani and Delta and the Bannermen.

[ZT4]

The new series with several scores of music from Sylvestor Mccoy's era

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-lfT938xBE

[mattx110]

Original Series

-Dragonfire
-Remembrance of the Daleks
-The Greatest Show In The Galaxy
-Silver Nemesis
-Battlefield
-Ghost Light
-Survival

Big Finish

-The Fearmonger
-The Genocide Machine
-Night Thoughts
-Master
-Return of the Daleks
-Excelis Decays
-Valhalla


It's a pity that BF didnt adapt some of the classic NAs for adaptation (since they used Benny as a companion), the original "Human Nature" would have been fascinating to hear with Mccoy in the role.

'Tis my favourite Doctor! Recommended stories:
Ghost Light
Remembrance of the Daleks
Survival
Silver Nemesis
Curse of Fenric
Battlefield

That being said, the start of McCoy's run was complete rubbish with horrible nonsense such as Time and the Rani and Delta and the Bannermen.

Thanks all. I think I'll start with some Daleks.


ALSO: Anyone seen any of these? http://www.imdb.com/company/co0103698/ Mark Gatiss and Nick Briggs and a bunch of Doctors involved. They seem good, but I dunno how to find them. Well, I saw one being offered for 100 bucks.

Or any of the "P.R.O.B.E." series of films?

[Stressfactor]

I find it difficult to watch stuff from Peter Davison's era through McCoy's. Not because of the acting (well, not entirely :wink: ) but the MUSIC! All that synthisizer stuff has NOT aged well... and most of it is not even GOOD synthesizer music. It just grates on my nerves and my ears and I've found that even truly good scenes are just ruined sometimes by the music.

Dudley Simpson had his problems back in the old days but most of the time at least his work didn't make me flinch. I'm not normally a proponent of removing original stuff and replacing it (like replacing old, hokey special effects with new, computer generated ones) but in the case of all that 80's synth work I wouldn't cry if they ripped out the original music track and replaced it with something else.

In the new series Murray Gold may go over the top and some of the vocalizations got overused but I'd still take actual orchestra style work over someone with a Casio keyboard.

Your actual mileage may vary however. :wink:

[Omac70]

Anyone seen any of these? http://www.imdb.com/company/co0103698/ Mark Gatiss and Nick Briggs and a bunch of Doctors involved. They seem good, but I dunno how to find them. Well, I saw one being offered for 100 bucks.
The Airzone Solution - which doesn't seem to be listed there - was probably the one I enjoyed most. Some of the stuff with "the stranger" was pretty good too.

I got a lot of them on VHS, and although I know most of it was re-released on DVD at one point it all seems to be very...unavailable now. Even the BBV site is down.

[Omac70]

In the new series Murray Gold may go over the top and some of the vocalizations got overused but I'd still take actual orchestra style work over someone with a Casio keyboard.

Your actual mileage may vary however. :wink:
Murray has written some excellent scores for the new series, but it's either him or the production team who don't seem to realise that incidental music works best when it's accompanying incident. It's there all the time, and like the repetition of other things within the series, I just become numbed to the potential impact of it because of there being too damn much of it.

And it certainly doesn't help that this season it's felt as if he's "scored" it by watching the episodes through once and playing random tracks from his two soundtrack cds over the action.

...Also have to mention that some of these "music comparison" videos on YouTube are a little unfair. The old incidentals were created to fit specific action at the time, and the placement of some of it in the new series scenes is obviously going to feel wrong. In fact, it's often the case with these "look how much better the music is now" things that inappropriate tracks are chosen on purpose just so the "point" can be made. And the most obvious example of that is in the clip posted earlier in this thread, where some background "in scene" music of Keff's (either accompanying the Paradise Towers promo vid or played inside the "leisure centre" in TATR - I can't remember which) is meant to replace Song For Ten! Of course that's going to sound shit! The music that's being used to replace that very-much-fitting-what-we're-seeing-on-screen stuff isn't really incidental music at all! :rolleyes:

[Omac70]

...I should add, though...on another level it's just unfair to use Keff's music in this comparison game anyway, as (especially compared to the work of some of the other 80s composers) a lot of what he did is shit. :wink:

[king mob]

Hey, any Sylvester McCoy fans have any favorite episodes?

He's a terrific actor and I've never seen anything but his 10 minutes in the 96 movie.

Google for Tiswas & The Ken Campbell Roadshow & hopefull you should find footage of McCoy sticking a fork in his bollocks. Ken Campbell very nearly played the Doctor as well.

[LordEd1976]

That being said, the start of McCoy's run was complete rubbish with horrible nonsense such as Time and the Rani and Delta and the Bannermen.

Things improved when Mel went bye-bye and Ace became the companion instead.

[blackphoenix]

I have been picking up mad eps of the "old" show on DVD lately. I LOVE the First and Second Doctor eras....it is so incredibly cheesy!!They used to have to work to achieve special effects, not just sit down at a PC. The Web Planet was the best(all them crazy butterfly people!!!), and the bit when the Tardis went to the Land Of Fiction...the freakin' Tardis exploded! And we had a great shot of Zoe's ass in that one(whoever says that hot companions began and ended with Billy Piper's Rose hasn't seen much of the series). I have been actively trying to steer clear of the Sixth Doctor era, since most of them were apparently quite awful(the few I remember from when I was a kid made me believe he was insane).

Two questions:
1)Are all the audios/books in continuity? I have been obsessively reading and re-reading A History: the Unoofficial guide to Doctor Who, and some of the stuff I have read doesn't fit or I refuse to accept(Time Lords being "loomed" from DNA rather than being born, for instance).

2)Is there anyplace where one could watch eps of the "new" series that haven't aired in US yet? The BBC won't let those outside the UK watch any episodes on the official Doctor Who website(e-mail it to me if you have it).

3)Sally Sparrow should be the next companion, right? RIGHT?? She's smart, brave, and a right looker, so I can't imagine we won't see her again.

[Omac70]

1) If you want them to be.

2) YouTube has 'em.

3) Might be nice.

[Cyke]

1) If you want them to be.



To back up Omac here, I like that the TV writers have adapted some events in the novels and audioplays into canon, and disregarded some others. So, yes, if you want them to be canon, go for it.

I, for one, happily accept the Seventh Doctor beating Death's Head twice when Iron Man couldn't and shipping DH off to Reed Richard's doorstep.

[Omac70]

I agree Cyke - I think the non-TV stuff just makes the universe even richer, but there's no rules to play by here.

I pretty much accept everything as canon, even the bits I don't really like. I just treat it all as equally valid, and as one huge story. Doesn't mean anyone else has to, and in the end each person just has to take on what they're comfortable - or can be bothered - with.

The early comic strips and annual stories I can quite happily leave to one side, but I like the idea of everything else fitting together. One of the short stories explains Dimensions in Time away as a seventh Doctor nightmare...and the Time War is a handy way of reconciling the stuff that's not so unpalatable as that, but more difficult to fit in (like two versions of Shada or Human Nature).

There's no definitive answer to "what is canon", really. Anything beyond the TV series can be ignored...even if it's just because you don't like it! And to be honest, if we're ignoring things like Curse of Fatal Death & Fix With Sontarans, that also probably gives us room to ignore bits of the TV series proper.

...So actually I'm going to ignore what I said earlier and say that unless everything between Last of the Time Lords and Fires of Pompeii is revealed to be just Martha's nightmare, I'm going to ignore that too! :smile:

[Cyke]

...So actually I'm going to ignore what I said earlier and say that unless everything between Last of the Time Lords and Fires of Pompeii is revealed to be just Martha's nightmare, I'm going to ignore that too! :smile:

No one can ignore the Adipose. They're just too adorable! Like fat Pokemon!

[Omac70]

I don't feel as if I can upset you by revealing my true feelings about the Adipose... :frown:

So I'll just settle for saying that I really meant everything between Sound of Drums and Fires of Pompeii. Last of the Time Lords through to Partners is Crime is like the Anti-Monitor's version of Human Nature through to Blink.

[noh-varr]

To back up Omac here, I like that the TV writers have adapted some events in the novels and audioplays into canon, and disregarded some others. So, yes, if you want them to be canon, go for it.

I, for one, happily accept the Seventh Doctor beating Death's Head twice when Iron Man couldn't and shipping DH off to Reed Richard's doorstep.

When did this happen what issues?

[Paul McEnery]

I don't feel as if I can upset you by revealing my true feelings about the Adipose... :frown:

So I'll just settle for saying that I really meant everything between Sound of Drums and Fires of Pompeii. Last of the Time Lords through to Partners is Crime is like the Anti-Monitor's version of Human Nature through to Blink.

You were molested by the Pilsbury Doughboy, weren't you.