Doctor Who *spoilers*

[tricksterpup]

He tells the Doctor the secret he's waited so long to tell him, and finally sleeps.

Marvelous.

Cause he knew that the Master is still alive.. brilliant.

[Matt]

Then again, knowing what the Master was doing ... a USEFUL warning might have been nice.

"You are not alone. The Master is coming. Remember to -close the TARDIS door and not have cables running from it!-"

[drwho]

Still at the end of the universe they were all changed into toclafane so why doesnt the doctor go back and save them? I dont see how that would affect time now.

[tricksterpup]

Then again, knowing what the Master was doing ... a USEFUL warning might have been nice.

"You are not alone. The Master is coming. Remember to -close the TARDIS door and not have cables running from it!-"

"and remember if you see Jack running towards the Tardis, open the door."

[tricksterpup]

Still at the end of the universe they were all changed into toclafane so why doesnt the doctor go back and save them? I dont see how that would affect time now.

Cause its the end of the Universe and everything dies.


Sadly, I was hoping that Jack would survive and become Galactus in the new universe.

[Cyke]

Sadly, I was hoping that Jack would survive and become Galactus in the new universe.

He'd be THE cutest destroyer of worlds EVER.

[Popgun]

This just in, from the BBC site:

While the final episode of Series Three, screened last Saturday , saw The Doctor's companion Martha leave to care for her devastated family, and to break the cycle of unrequited love she feels for The Doctor, the production team has now confirmed that the character is set to make a triumphant return in the fourth series.

Freema Agyeman is also set to join the cast of Torchwood, where she will continue to play the character in three new episodes before returning to Doctor Who in the middle of the fourth series.

As Doctor Who's Executive Producer and head writer, Russell T Davies notes: "Series three has gained outstanding reviews and Freema has been a huge part of that success, gaining rave notices for her portrayal of Martha. Now we are taking the character of Martha into brand new territory with a starring role in Torchwood".

"I can't wait to start filming on Torchwood and the new series of Doctor Who," said Freema. "It's a huge new challenge for me and I'm delighted Russell has decided to expand the character of Martha Jones.'"

The new announcement leaves a vacant space in the TARDIS. A new companion for The Doctor, who will join the new series for the entire 13 week run, will be announced shortly.

[king mob]

Now with Martha Jones off and about, yeah it would be cool to see her on Torchwood or even making a guest appearance in the Sarah Jane adventures. (that is if they are still going to do the series.)

The series is still happening. It was supposed to be this autum/winter but I don't think it's confirmed as yet.

[king mob]

It looks if that article from The Mirror last week was spot on, I just hope they've revamped Torchwood into something decent.

[Loki]

The series is still happening. It was supposed to be this autum/winter but I don't think it's confirmed as yet.

They've already filmed several of the episodes of the Sarah-Jane Adventures.

[The Fury]

We don't really know whether he can never die. He can't be killed that's true. Also he appears to have survived for millennia by the time we meet him. He simply became tired as the energy from the Tardis could not sustain him for an eternity.

He hangs in there long enough though :-) Plus it's interesting that he resembles what we see of the 'childlike', humans from Utopia. Cept he's much, much bigger of course.
When silly Billy went all godlike she bought Jack back from the dead but being human and not really knowing what she was doing she just bought him back, as a stated fact so basically she bought him back for all time so he'd exist for all time.

Face of Boe 'died' in the year 5 billion and a few, now while that is a good run, for a being that meant to exist forever then he still had a long way to go to reach 50 trillion.

Although what this does explain is in the first New Earth story where he was was ill and about to die, he suddenly became well again. That might have been him dieing and just springing back to life again like Jack does.


Don't forget the Face of Boe wired himself to the system in "Gridlock" to keep the lower levels of the city functioning. He also self sacrificed his life-force to power the equipment to fix everything and free the people trapped there.
Doesn't mean he dies, bought back forever, no energy or not, the energy would be replaced just like his wounds seemingly are healed. Unless he was faking it. :D

[Nosgoth Phantom]

Doesn't mean he dies, bought back forever, no energy or not, the energy would be replaced just like his wounds seemingly are healed. Unless he was faking it. :D

Perhaps he is not dead. Perhaps what was perceived as him sacrificing his life force energy to stabilize the city was him just giving up his body of flesh and living on within the energy and New Earth itself. Captain Jack, the human cold-fusion device lol

[lonewolf23k]

Maybe the Face of Boe just turned into something completly different, a being of pure energy no longer able to directly interact with humanoid lifeforms...

[king mob]

I notice that Stephen Moffat is down to write one of the two-parters in the next series; this is good.

As for putting Martha into Torchwood, that seems more like a plan to boost ratings (James Marsters has already been cast) than anything else. Hopefully Owen the rapist will sling his hook, but Chibnall apparently likes the character so we seem stuck with him.

The Kylie rumours really are not going away. It certainly seems that they'll be a big guest name (as with Catherine Tate last year) for the Christmas special.

[Paul McEnery]

Just in case people have missed this, here's the Whogasm (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLnk-A1OkKk).

[Enigmanaut]

I notice that Stephen Moffat is down to write one of the two-parters in the next series; this is good.

As for putting Martha into Torchwood, that seems more like a plan to boost ratings (James Marsters has already been cast) than anything else. Hopefully Owen the rapist will sling his hook, but Chibnall apparently likes the character so we seem stuck with him.

The Kylie rumours really are not going away. It certainly seems that they'll be a big guest name (as with Catherine Tate last year) for the Christmas special.

It's not a rumour... the story's embargoed till midnight, but a few sites let it slip early. They were forced to take it down, but the headlines are still in Google News.

[darkhanamaru]

contains spoilers but is funny

Doctor Who Outakes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EV_ot6Bj_NI

and for amusement, david tennant in drag

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4dUQgIaXGg

[Enigmanaut]

Official confirmation of Kylie in Voyage of the Damned, here. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/news/cult/news/drwho/2007/07/02/46771.shtml)

[Magneto_X]

Cause he knew that the Master is still alive.. brilliant.

I hope so.

I want to see Simm's Master as a reoccuring villian.

[Magneto_X]

It looks if that article from The Mirror last week was spot on, I just hope they've revamped Torchwood into something decent.

IIRC Davies' is doing a major revamp of the show for season 2. Perhaps he'll even have a closer contact/direction over the franchise.

Season 4 is also the last season he'll be on Doctor Who. Perhaps he'll be permanently assigned over Torchwood once that's done.

[lonewolf23k]

Just in case people have missed this, here's the Whogasm (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLnk-A1OkKk).

...Damn that's some loud screaming...

[drwho]

...Damn that's some loud screaming...

Is that a good representation overall of what dr whos female fans look like?

[Sean Whitmore]

Is that a good representation overall of what dr whos female fans look like?

Male fans too, I'd imagine.


SEAN

[tricksterpup]

Just in case people have missed this, here's the Whogasm (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLnk-A1OkKk).

Wow.. that is exactly what I enjoy doing, video taping myself watching a Tv show.

[tricksterpup]

Male fans too, I'd imagine.


SEAN

yes Glasses, chunky and with big tits.

[Sean Whitmore]

yes Glasses, chunky and with big tits.

I fit at least two of those criteria. Possibly three, depending on what angle I'm being looked at from.


SEAN

[Sean Whitmore]

Wow.. that is exactly what I enjoy doing, video taping myself watching a Tv show.

You have to wonder how many videos they have of themselves watching episodes where nothing exciting happened.


SEAN

[tricksterpup]

I fit at least two of those criteria. Possibly three, depending on what angle I'm being looked at from.


SEAN

Do you like wearing orange shirts?

[tricksterpup]

You have to wonder how many videos they have of themselves watching episodes where nothing exciting happened.


SEAN

were they watching Lost?

[mattx110]

You have to wonder how many videos they have of themselves watching episodes where nothing exciting happened.


SEAN

sound of drums was the best episode to pay attention to what you were doing while watching... if i had a nickel for every person who started tapping "da-dadada da-dadada" i'd be rich! well, 8 million nickels richer? is that a lot of money?:confused:

and this stupid show has made me enjoy the scissor sisters.... although that might be a good thing.

[king mob]

IIRC Davies' is doing a major revamp of the show for season 2. Perhaps he'll even have a closer contact/direction over the franchise.

Torchwood was supposed to be Chris Chibnall's baby, but he made a programme that went out to cock up the potential, so if Davies is more involved(and he certainly is more hands on with the second series) then it seems he's listened to some of the criticisms. He did listen to criticisms of the second Doctor Who series and sort out much of what was wrong with that series for this year.

Season 4 is also the last season he'll be on Doctor Who. Perhaps he'll be permanently assigned over Torchwood once that's done.

He's not confirmed as leaving yet but the way he wrapped up much of his plotlines in this series does suggest he's getting things ready for a new team. He's mentioned that he'd like to go back to doing more non-Who related work so it's likely if he'll hang around, it'll be in some sort of consultancy role that allows him to do what he wants.

The Kylie guest role should mean mega-ratings on Christmas Day & explains Martha's temporary departure perfectly.

[Spike-X]

Is that a good representation overall of what dr whos female fans look like?
I sure hope so!

[king mob]

and this stupid show has made me enjoy the scissor sisters.... although that might be a good thing.

Nowt wrong with that at all. One of the best gigs I've ever seen was a Scissor Sisters gig on my birthday at the Louisiana here in Bristol a few years ago.

[Paul McEnery]

Torchwood was supposed to be Chris Chibnall's baby, but he made a programme that went out to cock up the potential, so if Davies is more involved(and he certainly is more hands on with the second series) then it seems he's listened to some of the criticisms. He did listen to criticisms of the second Doctor Who series and sort out much of what was wrong with that series for this year.
Do what, mate?

Spill about the Chibnall, if you please.

But also: listened to criticism? The show's been tippling downhill since the first series!

Series one: spotless. Faint bit of deus ex at the end, didn't much like that, but, you know, heart of the Tardis.

Okay, that was bollocks. If you could do that, you'd win the Time War right from the gitgo, wouldn't you.

Series two: Two dodgy episodes, one of which should never have aired. But all the solutions to all the problems (except the stupid seat cover girlfriend) satisfied story logic.

So, slight downhill. Oh, and that really irritating cheat on "this is how I died". Because I really can't think that was being missing presumed dead counts, or would be on the top of her list of things to moan about.

But series 3? Story logic starting to creak no end.

Did not like the Lazarus science, but let it go in the interest of moving the plot along. (You do not rewrite someone's DNA by putting them in a tumble dryer; however, you could rewrite someone's DNA in principle, so whatever.)

Rewriting the Doctor's DNA to human? Muuuuuuuch iffier. Okay, move the plot along. But retrowrite using spooky light effects --

No, bollocks. That's a complete cardiovascular transplant, there. Oh, and while I'll grant that the Doctor has telepathic ability, not as a bloody human he doesn't, so the supposedly rich emotional ending for "John Smith" is the cock.

And I know 2006 is the year of stop crying already, but there were way too many gloopy moments that totally slowed down the plot. As in: any. It's bad enough in Torchwood, but they're a bunch of emotionally retarded brats created by the Face of Bo as a hobby. And Stop Saying Sorry!

But the final story is so full of plothammering, it's desperate.

So, just saying that the Doctor actually can fuse the Tardis coordinates with the sonic screwdriver - bit of a reach, but lets go with it - then the return coordinates for the Tardis aren't Utopia, are they? They're Feral Quarry.

So there's that.

Then there's six billion Toclafane. Are we seriously to expect that the Master sets up a production line that not only decapitates and integrates six billion people, but that he had six billion people to work with? Six billion? Where the hell did they come from? That's one hell of a breeding program for a race that's at each other's throats for any bloody resources at all.

But if the Master did do that at the arse-end of the universe, why didn't he do it on Earth? Why just kill your raw recruits? If, you know, you're making an army for the entire universe?

Oh, and just for the sake of argument, lets say that a Paradox Machine does what it says on the tin. Not that the Tardis isn't implicitly a Paradox Machine anyway -- that alien invasion in 1913; did that kill anyone's ancestor who might otherwise have left their DNA in the system? Oops! There goes Harriet Jones's grandmother.

So there's nothing implicitly wrong with bringing the Toclafane through. Sure, if they kill everyone, they vanish up their own paradox. But what if they don't kill everyone? So you shoot the Paradox Machine, the Toclafane don't vanish, do they. Maybe they get eaten by a bunch of vortisaurs, maybe the whole planet vanishes, but the Toclafane themselves don't vanish.

And if they do, then so does the Tardis itself.

And then there's the magic wand that can rewrite DNA at a distance. Again, no. No no no. No. Just no.

And then there's the Tinkerbell bit. Oh Jesus god no.

The problem is that there's a magic wand that rewrites DNA. The solution is: telepathy! But of course. That always works.

Bah! That's using a philips head screwdriver to remove a bloody bolt.

So here's how it actually ends:

Sure, telepathic jamming. Works for me. (You'd have to be plugged into the system, mind; which means you're automatically getting the Sound of Drums -- oh, wait a sec, how is that supposed to encode jack shinola? Never mind.)

So they jam the system. Which means the master doesn't have control over... Over anyone with a gun. That's about it. So someone shoots him.

You've still got six billion Toclafane flying around. So kill the Paradox Machine. You've still got six billion Toclafane flying around.

You've got the Master down, regenerating as fast as he can, and getting shot again, and having to regenerate again.

So the Doctor has to take his time to rewire the laser screwdriver out of its metabolic key. And you've got six billion Toclafane flying around.

Nope, everybody dies.

What you have to do is get the Doctor to the Tardis. No Toclafane in there -- fair enough; they might break the thing for fun, and then you're buggered -- And the Doctor has time to go back to normal. And then you deal with the problem at source. Which means you use the Paradox Machine to prevent the Toclafane from coming into existence.

Which probably means taking the dreadful decision to blow up the Planet of the Termites, using the human spaceship that's arriving there as a weapon. (Which would be kind of neat, as a reference to the death of Adric.)

And then the Master is still out there, in his human guise, protecting the last of the humans. And it all never happened.

The End.

Of course, then we wouldn't have had all the emo cuddling crap and the endless bloody crying.

So either Russell Davies couldn't be arsed, or he was so in love with his emo ending that he tossed all story logic out the window.

Either way, it's arse.

[tricksterpup]

Um.. its as science Fantasy show.. so real logic doesn't happen here. Its much better than some of the older shows.

[lonewolf23k]

Um.. its as science Fantasy show.. so real logic doesn't happen here. Its much better than some of the older shows.

Agreed. The way I look at it, Time Lord science is sufficiently advanced as to look like magic to us early 21st century folks, so I expect it to do stuff that's otherwise unexplicable.

[drwho]

i thought it was news to me that a time lord can keep themselves from regenerating. i was under the impression it just happens.

[Haydn C]

I'm not going to disagree Mr McEnery that Doctor Who is plot whole crazy with dodgy science but it always has been, it's a Sat early evening family show.

I don't understand some of your problems. If I can ask,

Oh, and while I'll grant that the Doctor has telepathic ability, not as a bloody human he doesn't, so the supposedly rich emotional ending for "John Smith" is the cock.


Not sure what you mean by this, do you mean the montage sequence where we see Smiths possible life?

So, just saying that the Doctor actually can fuse the Tardis coordinates with the sonic screwdriver - bit of a reach, but lets go with it - then the return coordinates for the Tardis aren't Utopia, are they? They're Feral Quarry.

I thought the Doctor fused the period of time the Tardis could travel in not the location, maybe I'm wrong on that?

Then there's six billion Toclafane. Are we seriously to expect that the Master sets up a production line that not only decapitates and integrates six billion people, but that he had six billion people to work with? Six billion? Where the hell did they come from? That's one hell of a breeding program for a race that's at each other's throats for any bloody resources at all.

Again I thought the Master said they canabilised themselves? The people in the starship were trying to reach Utopia, Yana explained that it was already there although I may have missed something about that. Although six billion does seem like rather a lot.

Anyway what do you think?

[Haydn C]

i thought it was news to me that a time lord can keep themselves from regenerating. i was under the impression it just happens.

That's exactly what I said to my wife when we watched it, maybe they are introducing/changing something about the Who mythos or perhaps it's something to do with the Master not really being dead?

[Paul McEnery]

I'm not going to disagree Mr McEnery that Doctor Who is plot whole crazy with dodgy science but it always has been, it's a Sat early evening family show.

I don't understand some of your problems. If I can ask,



Not sure what you mean by this, do you mean the montage sequence where we see Smiths possible life?

Exactly. It was emo bollocks. And, if I might say so, completely out of character for the show. Don't we have enough shows dedicated to the joy of the completely boring life?


I thought the Doctor fused the period of time the Tardis could travel in not the location, maybe I'm wrong on that?

Freeze the coordinates is freeze the coordinates, I would have thought.

Though if you can do that, why not just stop the bugger from taking off at all. And that, after all, was the whole idea of the Jon Pertwee series.


Again I thought the Master said they canabilised themselves? The people in the starship were trying to reach Utopia, Yana explained that it was already there although I may have missed something about that. Although six billion does seem like rather a lot.

Anyway what do you think?

Because that's the sort of technology they were demonstrated to possess.

[Haydn C]

I need to go back and watch these again, sober this time I think.

[Paul McEnery]

Um.. its as science Fantasy show.. so real logic doesn't happen here. Its much better than some of the older shows.

Oh, I love the smell of denial in the morning.

Since exactly when has it been a science fantasy show? Every single fantasy element in the show since the year dot has been explained away as technology. That's the whole point! They aren't demons, they're aliens! That's not ghosts, that's aliens! Etc. It's always about the Doctor pulling away the veil to reveal the trick.

And even if it's made up pseudoscience, it's supposed to work technologically. And sorry, but telepathy does not work technologically to undo DNA reconstruction.

For those unclear on the concept, aging is about ripping the ends off your chromosomes, not about diminishing your "lifeforce"; there is no "lifeforce"; so that's a bit irritating in itself every time some idiot writer throws it in there, as they did in the alternaverse Cyberman story; which again, one lets slide for the point of the story because it's just a tiny macguffin. But when it's the whole payoff, you'd better have set it up properly. Because if you can undo aging simply by thinking about it, there's not much need for regeneration, is there?

So it's not about Clarke's law, it's about story logic. And this episode puked in the shoes of story logic.

[Sean Whitmore]

i thought it was news to me that a time lord can keep themselves from regenerating. i was under the impression it just happens.

Well, Romana could regenerate at will, though I don't know if they ever wrote that off as being strictly an ability of female Time Lords.

And there's also that bit from one of the novels where the 7th Doctor went back and convinced the 6th Doctor to regenerate, although the canonicity of that may be in question.


SEAN

[Cyke]

Oh, I love the smell of denial in the morning.

Since exactly when has it been a science fantasy show? Every single fantasy element in the show since the year dot has been explained away as technology. That's the whole point! They aren't demons, they're aliens! That's not ghosts, that's aliens! Etc. It's always about the Doctor pulling away the veil to reveal the trick.

And even if it's made up pseudoscience, it's supposed to work technologically. And sorry, but telepathy does not work technologically to undo DNA reconstruction.


Well, Star Trek as a whole does the exact same thing, and it's classified as Science Fantasy as well. Gods are actually aliens, intuition and magic are explained as science, etc. etc. Science Fantasy doesn't need to have pure fantasy elements, but still treats science as a form of 'magic' that advances the plot.

"Science fiction makes the implausible possible, while science fantasy makes the impossible plausible."
--Rod Serling

That, and science fiction is usually used to talk about social commentary in a world that could come. Doctor Who, on the other hand, doesn't really delve into social commentary. That's why Trek and Who can have psychic powers and the literal force of words because they aren't scientifically plausible, nor do they pretend that it is. Doctor Who even has a Vorpal Pen, and anything from Jabberwocky should be treated as fantasy *anyway.*

I mean, trying to figure all that out (or even trying to discount that type of logic) would immediately dismiss 90% of all comic book fiction out there as well (how many times have we seen Magneto do things that aren't even remotely connected to the EM-field?), and then *poof,* no need for CBR as a board.

As for the Lazarus technology, we're never told how it works in the first place. For all we know, it's a form of temporal energy instead of something like, say, 'chi.' Debating how it works is irrelevant because 1. it's never said in great detail and 2. it *is* for story logic.

[Paul McEnery]

As for the Lazarus technology, we're never told how it works in the first place. For all we know, it's a form of temporal energy instead of something like, say, 'chi.' Debating how it works is irrelevant because 1. it's never said in great detail and 2. it *is* for story logic.

Yeah, but we are.

We are flat out told it's DNA manipulation.

[Paul McEnery]

That, and science fiction is usually used to talk about social commentary in a world that could come. Doctor Who, on the other hand, doesn't really delve into social commentary.

You have got to be kidding me.

[Cyke]

You have got to be kidding me.

It's always a snip here and there, but it's never a focus of the story, not like classic Trek or the current Battlestar Galactica. Even with its portrayal of an abrasive US President, the President wasn't a main focus in the episode. I'm thinking Doctor Who falls more along the lines of Stargate, Voyager, and Buffy in this regard.

And how about manipulating DNA by wrapping it in a time bubble? Again, no specifics. They could say something like 'plasma-temporal-quantum-hydrogenated-particle-accelerator-beam-tuned-to-specific-ribosomes' and it *still* wouldn't count as an explanation, at least in terms of the narrative. It's one thing to use big words but it's another thing to actually link their definitions together. That said, I don't think anyone on the Who writing team would even think of the Lazarus technology is feasible.

[Tobias March]

So RTD wrapped up a lot of storylines that started back in season one...however, what about the Queen Elizabeth hunting the Doctor idea? That's two monarch's the 10th Doctor has managed to piss off, but presumably Tennant's Doc has to have yet another trip to Shakespeare's timeline.

I wonders, yess I does.

[Cyke]

So RTD wrapped up a lot of storylines that started back in season one...however, what about the Queen Elizabeth hunting the Doctor idea? That's two monarch's the 10th Doctor has managed to piss off, but presumably Tennant's Doc has to have yet another trip to Shakespeare's timeline.

I wonders, yess I does.

Heck, for that matter, how many heads of state have died when the Doctor's around?

Apparently, being a world leader in the Doctor's presence is a very very bad thing.

[drwho]

just read an article on the scifi forums saying tate was coming back as a companion for the next season. Not sure if it is true or not.

[mattx110]

[QUOTE=Paul McEnery;5055581]QUOTE]

1. the doctor has been shown more than once this season to be able to restructure his biology, either using a chameleon arch to turn human, or manipulate radiation within his body, or letting pieces of his DNA travel with electrons to the human daleks. as a sickly old old creepy thing he couldn't do this to fix himself, but with billions of people hooked up psychic connection satellite system, and remember he mentioned in shakespeare code it would take a psionic generator for humans to have psychic power on the level with the witches, to give the people the ability to charge him up with telepathic energy. that's two precedent's for psychic power linking with technology and biologic manipulation.
the force push on the screwdriver i still find a bit odd. i woulda preferred he just was immune to it for a few seconds until the psychic energy ran out and he was able to smack it out of the master's hand.

2. the master designed a flying aircraft carrier using human technology, he knows how to make the most out of technology. he had the disc with the flight path to utopia and probably was probably able to build a transport at the end of the world. the utopia signal was a signal for all humans, not just the ones on the planet where the master was hiding. and the people did that toclafaning to themselves, the master just showed up and said "i know a way for you to live for a hundred trillion years". he mentions this in episode 13.

even with all the surviving humans being called to that point, using the number 6 billion may have been a hint that they're human, y'know being an approximation of our planets population. plus 6 billion armed spheres are kinda impossible to fight when most of the worlds population are non-military.

3.the paradox machine reverted back to a second after when president winters died. the combination of the paradox machine being DESTROYED with maybe winters was an ancestor of a toclafane was enough to revert them back to their time. remember, only 4 or so toclafane were in modern day until the paradox machine was activated. BTW, this is a point that i think needed better explanation within the episode. they stretched it out to 51 minutes 30 seconds, they could have thrown in a 10 second jack struggling with the paradox machine instead of just shooting it, and another 10 seconds of the doctor explaining why time was able to revert rather than get over-run by the reaver things from father's day.

[Tadhg]

just read an article on the scifi forums saying tate was coming back as a companion for the next season. Not sure if it is true or not.

It's on BBC's page.

[Paul McEnery]

All the explanations are a massive reach.

When you think about it, the show starts to go wrong with the seat cover girlfriend episode. It shows Davies's self-hatred as becoming the Doctor Who guy.

And then this comes out in Martha's character. The whole season is about rejecting the Doctor, and that's where we end up. Martha starts in a place of besotted wonder, and then has it chiseled away from her -- the death of her termite counterpart really hits the spot.

That's why we get that John Smith bit. It's Davies saying that making up fantasies is all very well, but down to earth reality is more important.

Look at the ending. The Tardis gets pranged by the emodiment of human belief in fantasy technology: the Titanic.

And now they're bringing back the joke companion, Catherine Tate.

There you have it. Davies has run out of ideas, and has followed the hideous arc of romance from energetic infatuation to bored contempt.

Sad, really. I'm kind of gutted.

[Frank K]

What a week. First Freema, who I thought did pretty good, is eased out for a while. Now we get Catherine Tate as the new companion. :confused: For me she was the worst part of The Runaway Bride. There doesn't appear to be much chemistry with David Tennant. I don't know about this one. Loud and rude doesn't make for a very good companion. How about having the Doctor travel alone for an episode or two and then find a companion from another time and a different planet?

The current production team has done a great job. Hopefully they can make this work. I'll take a wait and see approach.

[Sean Whitmore]

How about having the Doctor travel alone for an episode or two and then find a companion from another time and a different planet?

I'm waiting for a cool alien compantion as well.

He's already had some in the comics and radio plays, so now that TV makeup can pull it off, why no alien assistants?


SEAN

[Cyke]

That's why we get that John Smith bit. It's Davies saying that making up fantasies is all very well, but down to earth reality is more important.

To be fair to Davies, he didn't write the John Smith story. Plus, the original story was a Seventh Doctor novel written over ten years ago as well, merely adapted to fit the Tenth Doctor.

[Matt]

To be fair to Davies, he didn't write the John Smith story. Plus, the original story was a Seventh Doctor novel written over ten years ago as well, merely adapted to fit the Tenth Doctor.

And I still say it was a much more powerful story for the 7th Doctor than the 10th.

[ChrisIII]

Regarding social commentary, there are two serials in the classic series which tackle it head on-The Sunmakers, about Taxation; and Happiness Patrol, about Thatcher. Rememberance of the Daleks also has a bit as well.


"Human Nature/Family of Blood" is not the only episode that owes something to the books. "Dalek" is basically the audio "Jubilee" with a different Doctor and without the alternate reality stuff (Which interestingly shows up in the Cybermen two-parters in the secnd season). It's even written by the same guy. "The Christmas Invasion" borrows elements from Eighth Doctor novel "The Dying Days", "Rise of the Cybermen/Age Of Steel" has a few elements from "Spare Parts" and the Seventh Doctor novel "Loving The Alien", and "Utopia" owes a great deal to the audio "Master" and also Derek Jacobi's previous turn as the character in "Scream Of The Shalka".

It should be noted that in other cases they've tried to distance themselves from the novels. The Doctor's many mentions of a family and the flashback in Sound of Drums contradict "Lungbarrow".

[SlightlyMad]

I've just heard the bad news about Season 4: Catherine Tate is back as the Doctor's regular companion. :eek: :mad:
Runaway Bride was the worst episode of Doctor Who since the relaunch (closely followed by Love & Monsters the "comedy" episode featuring Peter Kay). Catherine Tate is unfunny and unattractive and I can see her addition to the show driving away more people than it will attract.

Guess I'll need to start going out more on Saturdays.

[SlightlyMad]

P.S. Here's (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6267680.stm) the official confirmation from the BBC. Fortunately, Martha Jones (Freema Agyeman) will return mid-season.

[drwho]

Well can't blame Tate for the script and role it was made out to be. Hopefully they will fix the character's personality so she wont be as annoying.

[SlightlyMad]

Have you ever seen her TV show? You can't polish a turd!

[The Fury]

Have you ever seen her TV show? You can't polish a turd!
I for one am very saddened by this news.

The first that you cannot polish a turd...I do not want to believe this...I shall try later.


Second, that she would be a companion. The character first of all said 'no' when the Doctor offered. Change of mind doesn't make sense. And Catherine Tate is a bad actor. comedy wise (while I think she's rubbish she seems to get the viewers) but there are serious places in Dr Who and she just won't fit.


Why can't they try and get some cool actress or actor to be a companion? Maybe try and presuade a resonable successful american actor to try and boost ratings in the US.

[Paul McEnery]

To be fair to Davies, he didn't write the John Smith story. Plus, the original story was a Seventh Doctor novel written over ten years ago as well, merely adapted to fit the Tenth Doctor.

And on whose say so?

[Paul McEnery]

Have you ever seen her TV show? You can't polish a turd!

Oh hush. You've obviously picked the right name.

Nonetheless, this is a lousy choice.

And proof of my thesis that the show has jumped the shark.

[rick]

I'm very pleased to have Catherine Tate returning to the show next year as the Doctors new companion.

She was just so wonderfully abrasive and funny in the Christmas special, and to be honest I sort of like the idea of someone traveling with the Doctor who doesn’t hang on his every word. Personally I think that her addition could make for some pretty witty scripts and some truly funny moments.

A great piece of casting all around.

[drwho]

I look forward to any new companion that doesnt act like she is in heat or have puppy love for the doctor.

[darkhanamaru]

I'm very pleased to have Catherine Tate returning to the show next year as the Doctors new companion.

She was just so wonderfully abrasive and funny in the Christmas special, and to be honest I sort of like the idea of someone traveling with the Doctor who doesn’t hang on his every word. Personally I think that her addition could make for some pretty witty scripts and some truly funny moments.

A great piece of casting all around.

I totally agree with this. I love the fact that Martha's character, while in puppy love, has evolved and that the new companion may not be so in to him. It will make the Doctor more interesting as well for his character will have to adjust as well.

[The Fury]

I look forward to any new companion that doesnt act like she is in heat or have puppy love for the doctor.
Don't get me wrong, I hate that too and I really never did like Martha Jones.

We need a companion that's there more for the fact they have to and not because they want to. Maybe the Doctor saves the last of a species on a dieing planet or soemthing, what I do not want is another human female pining over him. That's why Jack was such a cool side character, not only because he was bisexual and came onto anything he found attractive but he was his own man and didn't want to do the Doctor.

[tricksterpup]

Well, Star Trek as a whole does the exact same thing, and it's classified as Science Fantasy as well. Gods are actually aliens, intuition and magic are explained as science, etc. etc. Science Fantasy doesn't need to have pure fantasy elements, but still treats science as a form of 'magic' that advances the plot.

"Science fiction makes the implausible possible, while science fantasy makes the impossible plausible."
--Rod Serling


Thanks Cyke, you understood my meaning to Science Fantasy here.

Oh, I love the smell of denial in the morning.

Paul,
There is no denial here at all. Its a Freak'n TV show. Its not real and not trying to be reality. Its entertainment, like a comic book but then again people get bent out of shape about comic books as well.
To me it seems you got over most of the show's faults since you watched the entire season. Heck, if I hated the show or got annoyed with it, I stopped watching it.
Gosh, if you wanted to get really technical about Doctor Who, where's the Bathroom or sleeping quarters in the TARDIS?

[tricksterpup]

I look forward to any new companion that doesnt act like she is in heat or have puppy love for the doctor.

Yeah it would be cool to see someone who is in serious trouble and needs protection.
Or dang, how about another robot. :D

[Cyke]

And on whose say so?

Now I'm not too sure about what you're getting at here. First you blame RTD for writing the story, now you blame him for simply approving an adaptation of a story that came before his tenure, and going so far as hiring the original author to pen the adaptation itself?

Are you just blame-happy?

[Haydn C]

I'm very pleased to have Catherine Tate returning to the show next year as the Doctors new companion.

She was just so wonderfully abrasive and funny in the Christmas special, and to be honest I sort of like the idea of someone traveling with the Doctor who doesn’t hang on his every word. Personally I think that her addition could make for some pretty witty scripts and some truly funny moments.

A great piece of casting all around.

That is a great positive approach. I was a bit annoyed by the idea of having Tate back, but your right it will be good to have a non drippy assistant for a change. If Tate or the writers can tone down her characters shouting and gurning she could be a positive presence.

[Paul McEnery]

Now I'm not too sure about what you're getting at here. First you blame RTD for writing the story, now you blame him for simply approving an adaptation of a story that came before his tenure, and going so far as hiring the original author to pen the adaptation itself?

Are you just blame-happy?

Oh for Christ's sake, pay attention.

Not being a complete moron, I know who wrote the bloody thing. But Davies was the commissioning producer, and you'd have to be really, really, really incredibly thick not to realize that he picked the John Smith story because it fit the overall arc for the season WHICH WAS THE STORY HE WANTED TO TELL.

Jesus wept.

[king mob]

Nonetheless, this is a lousy choice.

And proof of my thesis that the show has jumped the shark.

I was going to argue with Paul's post a few pages back. That was before I got into work this morning and read that Catherine bollocking bastard Tate is to be a regular in the next series.

It's going to take a gigantic leap in quality (and as you all know I loved the third series especially and think it's the most consistant so far) to convince me that Tate is nothing more than the most hideous bit of stunt casting since Bonnie Langford or poor old Beryl Reid.

Kylie is fine; it's Christmas and it'll be fun. Even Tate was ok in The Runaway Bride but as a bloody regular?!

Why not get David Tennant to regenerate into Matt Lucas, make David Walliams a companion and get the Doctor and new catchphrase-'the only gay in the Tardis' would be a good start. They could even get Tom Baker to narrate the programme. It would be a winner.

I have this horrible vision of Davies and the production staff dancing round their offices in Cardiff dancing a conga and singing 'we're so good at telly, we're so good at telly'.

[Paul McEnery]

I'm very pleased to have Catherine Tate returning to the show next year as the Doctors new companion.

She was just so wonderfully abrasive and funny in the Christmas special, and to be honest I sort of like the idea of someone traveling with the Doctor who doesn’t hang on his every word. Personally I think that her addition could make for some pretty witty scripts and some truly funny moments.

A great piece of casting all around.

Her, I liked. What, I'm going to complain about a busty, freckly redhead?

But the character? Not so much.

She was deliberately one note, and just an inch away from "Am I bothered".

For that matter, the only things she did in the Bride were, well be stupid and self-involved. Oh, that's a winner.

Great for a one-off. For a whole season? Rose, but much less.

[Paul McEnery]

Don't get me wrong, I hate that too and I really never did like Martha Jones.

We need a companion that's there more for the fact they have to and not because they want to. Maybe the Doctor saves the last of a species on a dieing planet or soemthing, what I do not want is another human female pining over him. That's why Jack was such a cool side character, not only because he was bisexual and came onto anything he found attractive but he was his own man and didn't want to do the Doctor.

And someone else who wasn't watching the show.

Did you miss the bit where Jack was laying it on thick about being in love and not being noticed? By the Doctor? I mean, it's not exactly like Davies was being subtle about it.

[king mob]

Regarding social commentary, there are two serials in the classic series which tackle it head on-The Sunmakers, about Taxation; and Happiness Patrol, about Thatcher. Rememberance of the Daleks also has a bit as well.


The Happiness Patrol is a bit rubbish & it's digs at Thatcher are often used to hide it's sheer rubishness. The first few Jon Pertwee stories try to tackle social commentary with various levels of success, but they're still better than The Happiness Patrol.

[IamtheRock3]

ok spoil me

What happen to the black chick.Why was she a companion for one season

is it a HUGE spoiler on why she not

[SPAfreak]

ok spoil me

What happen to the black chick.Why was she a companion for one season

is it a HUGE spoiler on why she not

It's not that big of a spoiler. She recognizes that her love for the Doctor will always be unrequited and that she won't look for anyone else while she's with him. For that matter, the Doctor won't really be able to move on from his feelings for Rose while she's with him either.

[Paul McEnery]

Thanks Cyke, you understood my meaning to Science Fantasy here.


Paul,
There is no denial here at all. Its a Freak'n TV show. Its not real and not trying to be reality. Its entertainment, like a comic book but then again people get bent out of shape about comic books as well.
To me it seems you got over most of the show's faults since you watched the entire season. Heck, if I hated the show or got annoyed with it, I stopped watching it.
Gosh, if you wanted to get really technical about Doctor Who, where's the Bathroom or sleeping quarters in the TARDIS?

AAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look, if you don't care if what you watch is any good or not, why not hunker down with some lovely Rob Liefield comix. They're oh so tasty.

Me, I've been increasingly uneasy about the direction Davies is taking, and the final show of the season left me feeling sick at heart.

The Tinkerbell ending was a lazy cheat that was stupid, stupid, stupid. "And then a giant pink unicorn took them all to never never land and they lived happily ever after" would have been more emotionally and intellectually satisfying. As it was, we got gaudy and vacuous sentimentality. Bleargh.

[SPAfreak]

Great for a one-off. For a whole season? Rose, but much less.

What does this comment mean exactly? Did you hate Rose or just the Bride?

[Haydn C]

AAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look, if you don't care if what you watch is any good or not, why not hunker down with some lovely Rob Liefield comix. They're oh so tasty.

Me, I've been increasingly uneasy about the direction Davies is taking, and the final show of the season left me feeling sick at heart.

The Tinkerbell ending was a lazy cheat that was stupid, stupid, stupid. "And then a giant pink unicorn took them all to never never land and they lived happily ever after" would have been more emotionally and intellectually satisfying. As it was, we got gaudy and vacuous sentimentality. Bleargh.

Maybe he did think it was good, is that so wrong?

[Tobias March]

Thing is though the Christmas episode was very popular with a lot of folks. I'm thinking specifically of a rabid Who fan I know - who was also an avid reader of those damned Bridget Jones books.

The show's producers and the BBC cannot afford to allow Doctor Who to become a cult show again. They don't want another doomed Farscape or Babylon 5. They want a Buffy, early X-Files or perhaps even an Eastenders, but with aliens.

If they're aiming for a more mainstream audience, I guess Tate fits. Hell I was on the aintitcool forums and this fellow was complaining the finale was the worst episode he'd seen in 30 years. You can't win with die-hard nerds. So MOR is ideal.

[king mob]

If they're aiming for a more mainstream audience, I guess Tate fits.

Oh she does and there's no doubt she'll bring some viewers in who never watch Who just to see her. Which is great if Who was a struggling programme trying to make it in prime-time BBC1 schedules, but it's not. It's one of the BBC's top programmes and is one of their current crown jewels, it does appeal to much the same audience as her own programme.

It just smacks of Davies keeping BBC producers happy with talk of 'crossover audiences' and 'market share'. In short-it's bollocks.

Hell I was on the aintitcool forums and this fellow was complaining the finale was the worst episode he'd seen in 30 years. You can't win with die-hard nerds. So MOR is ideal.

The finale was by no means the worst episode ever. Has everyone forgotten about Fear Her already?

[Paul McEnery]

Oh she does and there's no doubt she'll bring some viewers in who never watch Who just to see her. Which is great if Who was a struggling programme trying to make it in prime-time BBC1 schedules, but it's not. It's one of the BBC's top programmes and is one of their current crown jewels, it does appeal to much the same audience as her own programme.

It just smacks of Davies keeping BBC producers happy with talk of 'crossover audiences' and 'market share'. In short-it's bollocks.


The finale was by no means the worst episode ever. Has everyone forgotten about Fear Her already?

Fear Her?

At least it had a story.

And the Doctor in it.

Love and Monsters is still the worst so far.

But The Last of the Time Lords is next.

[Paul McEnery]

Maybe he did think it was good, is that so wrong?

Oh so very wrong, yes.

Me, I've pretty much had it with the Davies machine. The first series had originality, but after that, it's been cannibalism all the way.

I mean, it was tragic when they bollocksed up The Matrix with the sequels, but big deal.

But I'm very sad that they're bollocksing up a show that's got life in it. This is when Davies should have quit. But nooooo. He's going to drag it out...

And down.

[Haydn C]

I couldn't be doing with The Long Game myself. Mainly because of that Adam fella. He right got on my nerves.

[Haydn C]

Oh so very wrong, yes.

Me, I've pretty much had it with the Davies machine. The first series had originality, but after that, it's been cannibalism all the way.

I mean, it was tragic when they bollocksed up The Matrix with the sequels, but big deal.

But I'm very sad that they're bollocksing up a show that's got life in it. This is when Davies should have quit. But nooooo. He's going to drag it out...

And down.

I'm hoping Steven Moffat will stage a coup at some point soon. Would you be ok with him in charge. Or is there someone else you would like?

I enjoyed this latest series but I'm not deaf to your pleas for Davies to give it up now. I really enjoyed his version of Casanova for example but only for the first episode and a half, his style started to drag for me after that.

[king mob]

I enjoyed this latest series but I'm not deaf to your pleas for Davies to give it up now. I really enjoyed his version of Casanova for example but only for the first episode and a half, his style started to drag for me after that.

'Queer As Folk', 'Bob & Rose', 'The Second Coming' and 'Casanova' are among the best dramas on British telly in the last 20 years. Davies is hugely talented but he could well & truely cock it up for whoever takes over when (if rumour is true this is his last series) he goes.

[Paul McEnery]

I couldn't be doing with The Long Game myself. Mainly because of that Adam fella. He right got on my nerves.

You know, I've been forgiving of Davies's lapses up till now. But with this last mess, I'm cursing myself for a slack-hearted weakling.

But cursing the BBC a lot more for letting him drop the ball so badly.

[Haydn C]

'Queer As Folk', 'Bob & Rose', 'The Second Coming' and 'Casanova' are among the best dramas on British telly in the last 20 years. Davies is hugely talented but he could well & truely cock it up for whoever takes over when (if rumour is true this is his last series) he goes.

Sorry to side track, I've never seen The Second Coming, it's worth a look is it?

[Cyke]

Oh for Christ's sake, pay attention.

And how about you just calm down there a bit? I'm really not one to follow anything with a condescending tone.

Not being a complete moron, I know who wrote the bloody thing. But Davies was the commissioning producer, and you'd have to be really, really, really incredibly thick not to realize that he picked the John Smith story because it fit the overall arc for the season WHICH WAS THE STORY HE WANTED TO TELL.

Jesus wept.

But your line of logic doesn't really fit here. The John Smith story is one giant metaphor showing that Davies has self-hatred issues? And you're saying other people are reaching? I don't doubt that the episode is fantasy vs. reality, but the general story (either version) shows that sometimes reality is more fantastic than the fantasy. And oftentimes, in the old and the new series, the Doctor and the Companions face something that wasn't up to their hopes or expectations: again, perceived reality vs. the actual situation. An entire season of the Sixth Doctor was about perceived reality, but I don't see any cries of self-hatred there.

I'm not debating with you about the quality of the writing this season or if Davies has run out of ideas, but to try and dissect him and his attitude psychologically is a bit stretching it, eh?

[king mob]

Sorry to side track, I've never seen The Second Coming, it's worth a look is it?


Yup, it is. You should be able to pick it up on DVD fairly cheap.

[Cyke]

Regarding social commentary, there are two serials in the classic series which tackle it head on-The Sunmakers, about Taxation; and Happiness Patrol, about Thatcher. Rememberance of the Daleks also has a bit as well.



Two episodes (plus a handful during Pertwee's run) out of 40+ years doesn't really categorize the show as 'social commentary.'

And, for all intents and purposes, the show works best without it, too. I'd fear for the worst if an ad for Doctor Who episode yelled out "Ripped from the headlines!"

[The Fury]

And someone else who wasn't watching the show.

Did you miss the bit where Jack was laying it on thick about being in love and not being noticed? By the Doctor? I mean, it's not exactly like Davies was being subtle about it.
When was this?

Of course you realise it was Captain Jack. a guy who actually was hitting on everyone he fancied. Jack wasn't subtle about his fancies.

And that bit about being in love and not noticing? As far as I understood it, he was refering to Rose, as if I recall she did tell him.

[rick]

Love and Monsters is still the worst so far.

But The Last of the Time Lords is next.

I just don’t understand all the hate for Love & Monsters, an episode I consider one of the very best of the current run?

I thought Marc Warren did a great job of carrying both the humor and the pathos of the story. We got to see a slightly deeper side to Jackie, a pissed off Rose and a great silly, nasty and foul villain.

Plus the gang of Who researchers were likable and real enough that when they met their fate, as ridiculous as it is I actually cared.

Sure the one bit of innuendo was a bit much for a kids show, but even that was funny in its own way.

Sure there are better episodes of the series, but I just don’t see the reasoning for the deep hate so many others feel for it.

[rick]

And that bit about being in love and not noticing? As far as I understood it, he was refering to Rose, as if I recall she did tell him.



No, sorry, but I am quite certain that Jack was talking about himself there, not Rose.

[The Fury]

No, sorry, but I am quite certain that Jack was talking about himself there, not Rose.

I do not remember Jack ever falling for the Doctor, not like Rose or Martha, no where near. And Jack seemed more then happy to persue others.

[rick]

I do not remember Jack ever falling for the Doctor, not like Rose or Martha, no where near. And Jack seemed more then happy to persue others.


What, so because they didn't have episodes with Jack looking at the Doctor longingly, he doesn't have feelings for the man?

Besides since what Jack says is that the Doctor doesn't notice people who love him unless they're blonde makes it clear that he isn't talking about Rose's love being unrequieted.

[tricksterpup]

What, so because they didn't have episodes with Jack looking at the Doctor longingly, he doesn't have feelings for the man?

Besides since what Jack says is that the Doctor doesn't notice people who love him unless they're blonde makes it clear that he isn't talking about Rose's love being unrequieted.

Yeah, if finding and keeping the Doctor's hand in a jar isn't a sign of love, I do not know what is.

[Matt]

Sorry to side track, I've never seen The Second Coming, it's worth a look is it?

It can seem a bit slow at times but everything is tied up beautifully in the final, powerful scene. I highly recommend it.

explaining why time was able to revert rather than get over-run by the reaver things from father's day.

I'd assume the TARDIS/Paradox Machine was there, in part, to keep the Reaver's away. Afterall, in Father's Day, the Doctor did state that he could fix everything once he got access to the TARDIS again.

It should be noted that in other cases they've tried to distance themselves from the novels. The Doctor's many mentions of a family and the flashback in Sound of Drums contradict "Lungbarrow".

Yes and no. Lungbarrow did establish that the Doctor had a family that survived to the then current day, likewise the novels were where it was established that the Master and Doctor grew up together.

Of course you realise it was Captain Jack. a guy who actually was hitting on everyone he fancied. Jack wasn't subtle about his fancies.

The dialogue between Martha and Jack quite clearly sets it up that Jack fancied the Doctor.

[Paul McEnery]

And how about you just calm down there a bit? I'm really not one to follow anything with a condescending tone.

Mea culpa. But I get a bit exercised if people aren't even paying attention to what I'm saying about the show, let alone what's actually there in the show. Makes it all a bit, you know, pointless.


But your line of logic doesn't really fit here. The John Smith story is one giant metaphor showing that Davies has self-hatred issues? And you're saying other people are reaching? I don't doubt that the episode is fantasy vs. reality, but the general story (either version) shows that sometimes reality is more fantastic than the fantasy. And oftentimes, in the old and the new series, the Doctor and the Companions face something that wasn't up to their hopes or expectations: again, perceived reality vs. the actual situation. An entire season of the Sixth Doctor was about perceived reality, but I don't see any cries of self-hatred there.

I'm not debating with you about the quality of the writing this season or if Davies has run out of ideas, but to try and dissect him and his attitude psychologically is a bit stretching it, eh?

Oh come on. The man's been utterly transparent.

For the first series, the theme was survivor's guilt. The second series, picking yourself up and learning to love again anyway -- in mortal dread that something else will go wrong. But the third series? Wasn't even from the Doctor's persective. All about being in love with the wrong guy. Verrrry telling.

The closest we got to seeing them be adventurous -- like genuinely adventurous and not just in the thick of it -- was in Blink. For two seconds of an off camera plot. Not that I'm complaining. Blink had the best story logic of the entire series. But again, it's really telling that that's where Davies's production really shines -- when the Doctor's hardly even in it.

And he's not been in it for four shows this series. Which is a bit much, if you ask me. And when he is, we've had the plot hammered in that the Doctor is trouble -- something we got from s01e01. Which is a very strange way to read the character. (Something else that was highlighted in Love and Monsters.)

[Matt]

On a completely unrelated note, anyone notice that part from shots in the first season ... we haven't seen the bell and the handpump on the TARDIS console again?

[Magneto_X]

That's why we get that John Smith bit. It's Davies saying that making up fantasies is all very well, but down to earth reality is more important.


I thought they did that two-parter so viewers would understand how The Master could turn human.

In fact, Davies' was probably inspired to make The Master human after reading Human Nature.

why no alien assistants?

SEAN

Perhaps they don't think viewers would be able to relate to a non-human?

But it's not like it's not worked before. The Doctor has had other non-Earthling companions (i.e. Romana, Nyssa etc). Of course, they looked indistinquishable from other humans.

It's not that big of a spoiler. She recognizes that her love for the Doctor will always be unrequited and that she won't look for anyone else while she's with him. For that matter, the Doctor won't really be able to move on from his feelings for Rose while she's with him either.

You forgot to mention Martha's fell in love with a doctor during her missing year during "Last of the Time Lords".

She's over the Doctor now that she has someone else who could possibly love her back.


The finale was by no means the worst episode ever. Has everyone forgotten about Fear Her already?

I enjoyed Fear Her.

The only ep I never liked was Love & Monsters.



I do not remember Jack ever falling for the Doctor, not like Rose or Martha, no where near. And Jack seemed more then happy to persue others.

Jack was in lust for The Doctor, IMO. Unlike either Rose or Martha who were more in puppy love with him. That and Jack didn't care much about it once turned down.

[SlightlyMad]

I was going to argue with Paul's post a few pages back. That was before I got into work this morning and read that Catherine bollocking bastard Tate is to be a regular in the next series.

It's going to take a gigantic leap in quality (and as you all know I loved the third series especially and think it's the most consistant so far) to convince me that Tate is nothing more than the most hideous bit of stunt casting since Bonnie Langford or poor old Beryl Reid.

Kylie is fine; it's Christmas and it'll be fun. Even Tate was ok in The Runaway Bride but as a bloody regular?!

Why not get David Tennant to regenerate into Matt Lucas, make David Walliams a companion and get the Doctor and new catchphrase-'the only gay in the Tardis' would be a good start. They could even get Tom Baker to narrate the programme. It would be a winner.

I have this horrible vision of Davies and the production staff dancing round their offices in Cardiff dancing a conga and singing 'we're so good at telly, we're so good at telly'.

Heh. You summed up my thoughts in a much more entertaining way. Well done Sir! You are now my hero! :D

As for those that argue that the Christmas episode was one of their most popular, I would argue that it got the highest ratings (it was on prime-time on Christmas Day BBC 1, the UK's premier channel!), but their most popular? Nah.

[rick]

Jack was in lust for The Doctor, IMO. Unlike either Rose or Martha who were more in puppy love with him. That and Jack didn't care much about it once turned down.


Puppy love?

Please, it's not like either Martha or Rose were 12 at the time.

Both were in love with the Doctor, and in the case of Rose, the Doctor loved her back.

As for Jack, that line to Martha wasn't something that someone with unrequieted "lust" would say.

[Tobias March]

I would actually add the Family of Blood episodes as example of Doctor Who fulfilling sf's contract of social commentary also. I mean honestly - children being trained to use guns while in school, the Headmaster's disastrously uncomprehending face-off with the Family, the insular relations between the older boys and their 'scum' (okay I'm quoting If... there, but it fits) falling apart once they're confronted with the realities of war.

After all Doctor Who could be said to have been conceived as an educational show. So to describe it as empty spectacle is a misnomer.

You want that, tune into the Stargate franchise :D

[mattx110]

Mea culpa. But I get a bit exercised if people aren't even paying attention to what I'm saying about the show, let alone what's actually there in the show. Makes it all a bit, you know, pointless.




Oh come on. The man's been utterly transparent.

For the first series, the theme was survivor's guilt. The second series, picking yourself up and learning to love again anyway -- in mortal dread that something else will go wrong. But the third series? Wasn't even from the Doctor's persective. All about being in love with the wrong guy. Verrrry telling.

The closest we got to seeing them be adventurous -- like genuinely adventurous and not just in the thick of it -- was in Blink. For two seconds of an off camera plot. Not that I'm complaining. Blink had the best story logic of the entire series. But again, it's really telling that that's where Davies's production really shines -- when the Doctor's hardly even in it.

And he's not been in it for four shows this series. Which is a bit much, if you ask me. And when he is, we've had the plot hammered in that the Doctor is trouble -- something we got from s01e01. Which is a very strange way to read the character. (Something else that was highlighted in Love and Monsters.)

didn't notice the doctor's multiple attempts at self-sacrifice before being brought back by humanity after they understand all he's done for them, did you?

[Cyke]

Mea culpa. But I get a bit exercised if people aren't even paying attention to what I'm saying about the show, let alone what's actually there in the show. Makes it all a bit, you know, pointless.

Believe me, I'd love to follow what you're saying, but sometimes you just have leaps in logic, where you go from A to C without giving a thought to B. And I'm still not sold on the idea that Series 3 is one big Dr. Phil session for Davies, either.

Oh come on. The man's been utterly transparent.

For the first series, the theme was survivor's guilt. The second series, picking yourself up and learning to love again anyway -- in mortal dread that something else will go wrong. But the third series? Wasn't even from the Doctor's persective. All about being in love with the wrong guy. Verrrry telling.

The theme of being in love/obsessed with the wrong guy was there since last year anyway (with Pompadour and even L.I.N.D.A, to an extent). Yes, I'm also tired of Martha getting googly-eyed around him (thank God she walked away in the end), but I doubt that's the primary theme this season. Regardless of execution, there have got to be more urgent layers there. Like, say, the Doctor's questioning what it means to be a Time Lord (it's a guess, admittedly, something for an English 101 essay. From 'Smith and Jones' and 'Gridlock' to the John Smith and Master storyarcs.).

[Paul McEnery]

You know, normally I hate delving into The Guardian's comments section, (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/organgrinder/2007/07/catherine_tate_as_the_doctors.html) because the format is just so rabbley. But this time I did it to reassure myself that I'm not just going round the twist.

I'm beginning to think this is one of those divided by a common language things.

[Tobias March]

Right place your bets on the Master fake-out.....

Had he switched brains with his 'companion', during the missing year? Is he controlling her through a foetus in her womb? Perhaps he stored his essence in the ring, much like the deal with the watch?

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

[SlightlyMad]

I thought the bit with the ring at the end was a homage to [the final scene of] Flash Gordon just like the burning of the Master on a pyre alluded to Return of the Jedi. NO way is the Master dead and gone. Dead maybe, but that won't last.

[Tobias March]

I thought the bit with the ring at the end was a homage to [the final scene of] Flash Gordon just like the burning of the Master on a pyre alluded to Return of the Jedi. NO way is the Master dead and gone. Dead maybe, but that won't last.

Oh totally....but even in that, if you recall, Ming stored his essence in the ring, so...

[Karl H]

If they wanted to Homage Flash Gordon they should have included either:

1) Hot Hail

or

2) Brian Blessed Shouting.

[Bobb]

I'm just wondering how long it will be till someone on You Tube does a comparison between Catherine Tate's Companion, The 8th Doctor's Mel, and maybe even Peri for who screeches louder!

Bobb

[king mob]

I was thinking today that maybe I was being too harsh on Tate. After all Billie Piper was widely mocked as a teeny popstar and missus of Chris Evans, but she was building up a reputation as a good actress, and Tate is actually a fairly decent actress outside her comedy appearances.

Then I thought, 'nah, this is just trying to push Tate's career' & became pissed off again.

[ChrisIII]

Brian Blessed shouting was done in "Trial of a Timelord: Mindwarp" :)

[Spike-X]

I'm trying to be optimistic about this. Really I am.

I was optimistic about Torchwood, too.

[SlightlyMad]

If they wanted to Homage Flash Gordon they should have included either:

1) Hot Hail

or

2) Brian Blessed Shouting.

http://www.eccentric-cinema.com/images/movie_pix_a-i/flash_gordon2.jpg

DYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! ;)

[Paul McEnery]

I'm trying to be optimistic about this. Really I am.

I was optimistic about Torchwood, too.

Well, I think I see what the problem is with Torchwood now, and it's related.

The thing that really ticked me off with the Who finale was that bullshit end to the Martha "romance". First she takes her leave, but then she comes back and does it again in an I Am Woman Hear Me Roar kind of a way.

The reality is, she had a schoolgirl crush on the man, and she let it get out of hand, and now it's come to the point where it's biting both of them on the arse. And, just like a woman, she's playing it as her drama: first it's her tragedy that she's unrequited; then it's her triumph, because she doesn't let him get the better of her. Not her own stupid emotions, but him.

Okay, fair enough, people think I'm stretching a point by saying this is analogous to Davies's own feelings. )And indeed, that what felt like a fresh take and an emotional depth have been revealed as a fundamental difference of sympathies between Davies's own inclinations and the internal drive of the show.)

But when you look at Torchwood, where the show isn't anchored to the strong character and history of the Doctor, you see what really comes out.

The foreground is the emo drama, not the plot. We're not watching to see something fantastic, we're watching to see who Jack shags next, the will she won't she with Gwen's sexuality, and so on. In fact, every bit of wonder in the show gets bagged and tagged as a threat to normality.

And look at the Rift itself. It's the macguffin of the series. They're there because weird things come through the Rift. And it gives nothing positive. It's something to be contained. (And don't dare ask where the Rift containment technology came from.)

So yeah, I'm sticking with this assessment. Davies came to the show with Ecclestone's infectious sense of wonder (if also with the doomed sense that everything comes to an end). But it's been worn away, because that's not really where his enthusiasm lies.

Like Martha, he's found his love unrequited, because he wasn't in love with a person, but rather with love itself, with his own passion (in this case, for creativity). And, like Martha (at least, pre paradox reversion Martha), it's given him a higher profile and greater strength, but not for this job any more.

But hell, I usually stick around in jobs and relationships longer than I should myself, so who am I to talk?

[ragnarok_2012]

Well, I think I see what the problem is with Torchwood now, and it's related.

The thing that really ticked me off with the Who finale was that bullshit end to the Martha "romance". First she takes her leave, but then she comes back and does it again in an I Am Woman Hear Me Roar kind of a way.

The reality is, she had a schoolgirl crush on the man, and she let it get out of hand, and now it's come to the point where it's biting both of them on the arse. And, just like a woman, she's playing it as her drama: first it's her tragedy that she's unrequited; then it's her triumph, because she doesn't let him get the better of her. Not her own stupid emotions, but him.

Okay, fair enough, people think I'm stretching a point by saying this is analogous to Davies's own feelings. )And indeed, that what felt like a fresh take and an emotional depth have been revealed as a fundamental difference of sympathies between Davies's own inclinations and the internal drive of the show.)

But when you look at Torchwood, where the show isn't anchored to the strong character and history of the Doctor, you see what really comes out.

The foreground is the emo drama, not the plot. We're not watching to see something fantastic, we're watching to see who Jack shags next, the will she won't she with Gwen's sexuality, and so on. In fact, every bit of wonder in the show gets bagged and tagged as a threat to normality.

And look at the Rift itself. It's the macguffin of the series. They're there because weird things come through the Rift. And it gives nothing positive. It's something to be contained. (And don't dare ask where the Rift containment technology came from.)

So yeah, I'm sticking with this assessment. Davies came to the show with Ecclestone's infectious sense of wonder (if also with the doomed sense that everything comes to an end). But it's been worn away, because that's not really where his enthusiasm lies.

Like Martha, he's found his love unrequited, because he wasn't in love with a person, but rather with love itself, with his own passion (in this case, for creativity). And, like Martha (at least, pre paradox reversion Martha), it's given him a higher profile and greater strength, but not for this job any more.

But hell, I usually stick around in jobs and relationships longer than I should myself, so who am I to talk?

I found Torchwood's over-reliance on sex frustrating and juvenile. And yeah, the Rift is a macguffin.

It seems to me that Torchwood is be a show about British Men in Black. I strongly suspect that it was meant to be the Angel to Doctor Who's Buffy. Unfortunately, the show reminds me more of Voyager and Enterprise.

I found the London version of Torchwood infinitely more interesting than Jack's group.

Torchwood seems to have distorted Jack to the point where I found his character unrecognizable from Doctor Who, and that's really dumb.

[Enigmanaut]

Torchwood seems to have distorted Jack to the point where I found his character unrecognizable from Doctor Who, and that's really dumb.

No. No, I don't think so. In Torchwood, you see Jack as he really is, warts and all. You're really seeing Jack there (or whatever his name really is). It's the common, everyday Jack... or at least as everyday as an Indestructible man can be.

In Doctor Who, though, there we have the distortion. The Jack you see in Doctor Who is who Jack wants to be. It's the Jack that he could always be if he hat the wherewithal. You see, the Doctor changes Jack. 'Tis like the Master said... he's the man who makes people better. You can't help but be a better person when confronted with such a being. Jack raises to a level he doesn't ordinarily attain when not in the Doctor's presence. Remember that, in the first season of Torchwood, we're seeing a Jack that has been more than a century bereft of the Doctor's company. He's weary and has begun to lose the hope that he will ever see "the right kind of Doctor" again. Look at the elation on his face, though, when the "Doctor Detector" goes off.

It'll be interesting to see if Jack is a changed man in Torchwood Series 2. He's just left the Doctor's company, and has a better feel of his place in the firmament. He saw the insane chaos that follows the Doctor and marvelled at the miracles the Doctor can do when Humans are at their best. And Jack became one of those Humans lending him power.

Interesting, to be sure. How long will that last, I wonder, that surge of positive feeling that comes from traveling with the Doctor? We shall see.

[ragnarok_2012]

No. No, I don't think so. In Torchwood, you see Jack as he really is, warts and all. You're really seeing Jack there (or whatever his name really is). It's the common, everyday Jack... or at least as everyday as an Indestructible man can be.

In Doctor Who, though, there we have the distortion. The Jack you see in Doctor Who is who Jack wants to be. It's the Jack that he could always be if he hat the wherewithal. You see, the Doctor changes Jack. 'Tis like the Master said... he's the man who makes people better. You can't help but be a better person when confronted with such a being. Jack raises to a level he doesn't ordinarily attain when not in the Doctor's presence. Remember that, in the first season of Torchwood, we're seeing a Jack that has been more than a century bereft of the Doctor's company. He's weary and has begun to lose the hope that he will ever see "the right kind of Doctor" again. Look at the elation on his face, though, when the "Doctor Detector" goes off.

It'll be interesting to see if Jack is a changed man in Torchwood Series 2. He's just left the Doctor's company, and has a better feel of his place in the firmament. He saw the insane chaos that follows the Doctor and marvelled at the miracles the Doctor can do when Humans are at their best. And Jack became one of those Humans lending him power.

Interesting, to be sure. How long will that last, I wonder, that surge of positive feeling that comes from traveling with the Doctor? We shall see.

And with effective writing, they could have made a compelling case for this.

Instead, we got Jack posing randomly on the top of a building and sexually harassing Gwen (the firearms training montage).

[Matt]

Those rooftop shots of Jack really made no sense at all. I was left wondering that Jack was trying to look tough but was thinking "Damn. I locked my keys downstairs ... hope someone comes along soon."

[king mob]

No. No, I don't think so. In Torchwood, you see Jack as he really is, warts and all. You're really seeing Jack there (or whatever his name really is). It's the common, everyday Jack... or at least as everyday as an Indestructible man can be.

In Doctor Who, though, there we have the distortion. The Jack you see in Doctor Who is who Jack wants to be. It's the Jack that he could always be if he hat the wherewithal. You see, the Doctor changes Jack. 'Tis like the Master said... he's the man who makes people better. You can't help but be a better person when confronted with such a being. Jack raises to a level he doesn't ordinarily attain when not in the Doctor's presence. Remember that, in the first season of Torchwood, we're seeing a Jack that has been more than a century bereft of the Doctor's company. He's weary and has begun to lose the hope that he will ever see "the right kind of Doctor" again. Look at the elation on his face, though, when the "Doctor Detector" goes off.

It'll be interesting to see if Jack is a changed man in Torchwood Series 2. He's just left the Doctor's company, and has a better feel of his place in the firmament. He saw the insane chaos that follows the Doctor and marvelled at the miracles the Doctor can do when Humans are at their best. And Jack became one of those Humans lending him power.

Interesting, to be sure. How long will that last, I wonder, that surge of positive feeling that comes from traveling with the Doctor? We shall see.

As pointed out, if they'd had anything approaching decent scripts that would be realistic. As it was it was a mess of a programme and Jack's character was all over the place. Of course all that's needed is a decent script editor; plus some decent scripts that don't go on about tits and shagging every 10 minutes.

The first series of Torchwood was mainly juvenille rubbish with badly constructed, stereotypical characters who were instantly dislikeable (Owen essentially trying to rape a woman in the opening episode for example) but it did have some nice shots of Cardiff.

I hope the second series is an improvement, I honestly do because it could be a good bit of British telefantasy rather than being a bit of a cringing embaressment.

[Kaled]

The SciFi Channel is running a Doctor who marathon because season 3 starts tonight. I noticed something this morning, not noticing it before, and I have a question about it. The question is brought up because of something the Doctor said in the Cyberman 2 part in that travel between parallel worlds/universe is basically impossible. In the past the Doctor could go to parallel/alternative dimensions either by choice or accident. He showed sarah what would happen if Set escape-He called it the glimpse into alternative time. He fell into E-Space by accident and had to find a way out before being trapped in E-space. The books and cds seem to follow this logic. My question is this: Did the Time Wars and the Doctor being the last timelord cause the laws of travel in time, space and dimensions to be rewritten so he can only go through the same time and space dimensions?

[Magneto_X]

The Doctor travelled to the anti-matter universe to fight Omega ("The 3 Doctors"), as well.


<<<<-----misses Omega

[drwho]

I think there was a mention before that timelords knew how to go to different dimensions before the time war just after the time war maybe the technology was lost or caused something with the dimensional barriers. lol

[Cyke]

The SciFi Channel is running a Doctor who marathon because season 3 starts tonight. I noticed something this morning, not noticing it before, and I have a question about it. The question is brought up because of something the Doctor said in the Cyberman 2 part in that travel between parallel worlds/universe is basically impossible. In the past the Doctor could go to parallel/alternative dimensions either by choice or accident. He showed sarah what would happen if Set escape-He called it the glimpse into alternative time. He fell into E-Space by accident and had to find a way out before being trapped in E-space. The books and cds seem to follow this logic. My question is this: Did the Time Wars and the Doctor being the last timelord cause the laws of travel in time, space and dimensions to be rewritten so he can only go through the same time and space dimensions?

I'm assuming that it's a technology + numbers thing. Sort of like, 'Back when humans were on this planet, we could go to outer space. Now that I'm the last human on Earth, there's no community left to build a rocket or pilot one.'

The Doctor said something similar as well in relation to time changes and the Reapers in Father's Day, that time changes could be handled by Time Lords, but now that they're gone, the Reapers have taken over.

[SPAfreak]

You forgot to mention Martha's fell in love with a doctor during her missing year during "Last of the Time Lords".

She's over the Doctor now that she has someone else who could possibly love her back.

That's really not how I read the situation. It's made pretty clear that she's not over the Doctor. She realizes that she needs space and time to get over him. As for the pediatrician, she called him to make sure that A) it's him and B) he's actually alive in the new timeline. He's someone that she COULD make a connection to. At the very least he's normal and that's what Martha needs to return to.

[king mob]

The best way to deal with this series of Who is to take a shedload of pills and marvel at a DJ who starts a set off with a sample of John Simm saying 'here come the drums'.

[Haydn C]

The best way to deal with this series of Who is to take a shedload of pills and marvel at a DJ who starts a set off with a sample of John Simm saying 'here come the drums'.

In that case you sir have better DJ's and clubs near you.

[IamtheRock3]

ok know the story reason on why she left now

but what was the behind the scenes reason. Was the actress who played martha causing trouble or something

[ragnarok_2012]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/davidbrider/Doctor%20Who%20Macros/Master_no_beard.jpg

[IamtheRock3]

And with effective writing, they could have made a compelling case for this.

Instead, we got Jack posing randomly on the top of a building and sexually harassing Gwen (the firearms training montage).


but Jack was always about the booty at first, and wasnt always a nice guy on DR Who. Remember how the first met him, he was a bit of a con artist and out for himself

[hi! Lord Fear]

You know except for the Doctor Who Superstar moment; it was a good season finale; and I am glad that Martha is trying to get the Doctor out of her system (I can sorta see why Rose ran after the Doctor but not Martha). Hope Torchwood improves because what I saw and heard was not good. By the way is anybody else a bit tired with the Jack Sparrow stylings of the Doctor (he can lay it on a bit thick). And to add to a previous writer I miss Omega myself

[Enigmanaut]

ok know the story reason on why she left now

but what was the behind the scenes reason. Was the actress who played martha causing trouble or something

She hasn't left the show. She's branching out. Martha will appear in 3 episodes of Torchwood next year, missing the first 4 episodes of Doctor Who, then return to the TARDIS from that point thereafter.

My impression is that the producers and David Tennant have been incredibly pleased with the very enthusiastic Freema.

[IamtheRock3]

She hasn't left the show. She's branching out. Martha will appear in 3 episodes of Torchwood next year, missing the first 4 episodes of Doctor Who, then return to the TARDIS from that point thereafter.

My impression is that the producers and David Tennant have been incredibly pleased with the very enthusiastic Freema.

Well kind of weird for the story

that she left and came back 3 times. Kind of make her charcter look like a flighty bird

[king mob]

In that case you sir have better DJ's and clubs near you.

Damn straight.

[king mob]

She hasn't left the show. She's branching out. Martha will appear in 3 episodes of Torchwood next year, missing the first 4 episodes of Doctor Who, then return to the TARDIS from that point thereafter.

My impression is that the producers and David Tennant have been incredibly pleased with the very enthusiastic Freema.


By bumping her off one of the biggest programmes right now and shunting her to what was a critical disaster doesn't sound like a good deal. Ok Torchwood will hopefully improve, but it's still not hiding that she's been dumped in order to bring in Tate, someone who the BBC consider as one of their star talents.

[Enigmanaut]

By bumping her off one of the biggest programmes right now and shunting her to what was a critical disaster doesn't sound like a good deal. Ok Torchwood will hopefully improve, but it's still not hiding that she's been dumped in order to bring in Tate, someone who the BBC consider as one of their star talents.

No, she hasn't been "dumped." If anything, it's an extraordinary show of faith in Freema that they think her presence in Torchwood can raise its profile a bit (despite it already getting some pretty decent ratings for a BBC3 show). And like I said, she comes back to Doctor Who once done her Torchwood stint. Martha and Donna will be traveling with the Doctor together for much of the season.

Freema being on Torchwood is nothing about lowering her status, it's about rasing Torchwood's.

[king mob]

No, she hasn't been "dumped." If anything, it's an extraordinary show of faith in Freema that they think her presence in Torchwood can raise its profile a bit (despite it already getting some pretty decent ratings for a BBC3 show). And like I said, she comes back to Doctor Who once done her Torchwood stint. Martha and Donna will be traveling with the Doctor together for much of the season.

Freema being on Torchwood is nothing about lowering her status, it's about rasing Torchwood's.

It is but it still doesn't hide the fact Ageyman has been dumped in order to make way for Tate. Plus Torchwood's ratings were not impressive, even for a digital channel, after the first few episodes.

Now obviously we have to wait and see how it's going to work out but the casting of Tate is clearly a push by the BBC to further raise her profile at the expense of Ageyman.

[drwho]

I dont really see this as something against freema cus she is still working and only gone a few episodes. Being alone with the doctor allows us to get to know Donna better than if Martha was there cus she would take up screen time. I think it will be interesting to see Donna and the doctor by themselves to see what develops for a few episodes and then bring martha back and throw her in with this other woman. Now as long as the two dont have love spats and jealous tirades over who has the doctors affection more i'll be glad to watch it.

[IamtheRock3]

well as I recall adding tate on was a recent decesion

show a sign of trust there BANKING on this girls saving a failing Torchwood. That shows they beleave in her. The whole point of adding on that people going to say

"WOW she on better watch"

And then add the fact her cousin died in torchwood offices makes for a good story

also isnt she in the Dr who cartoon

I am not sure this the GREATEST IDEA though, may blow up in thier faces. But think they do beleave in her from what little I heard

[mattx110]

Well kind of weird for the story

that she left and came back 3 times. Kind of make her charcter look like a flighty bird

she has a life too. she can't just pack up and leave like other companions who don't mind ditching their mom and boyfriend. she's doing the responsible thing by staying home instead of going to see the universe.

of course, random alien stuff is going to get in the way of her normal life, and she'll come back:D but she's being the opposite of a "flighty bird", which is a very cute way of putting it.

and about dumping agyeman for tate. they maybe didn't want to have another Rose, where the companion is on the show longer than the actor(s) playing the doctor. they need to shift the focus a bit so we remember it's not "the companion show and her timetravelling alien sidekick"

[IamtheRock3]

she has a life too. she can't just pack up and leave like other companions who don't mind ditching their mom and boyfriend. she's doing the responsible thing by staying home instead of going to see the universe.

of course, random alien stuff is going to get in the way of her normal life, and she'll come back:D but she's being the opposite of a "flighty bird", which is a very cute way of putting it.

and about dumping agyeman for tate. they maybe didn't want to have another Rose, where the companion is on the show longer than the actor(s) playing the doctor. they need to shift the focus a bit so we remember it's not "the companion show and her timetravelling alien sidekick"


well that was a bit of a fluke

From what I understand most doctors dont have THAT short of a stay

[Enigmanaut]

It is but it still doesn't hide the fact Ageyman has been dumped in order to make way for Tate.

It's like talking to a wall... SHE WASN'T DUMPED!!! SHE'S COMING BACK! IT'S A BLOODY STORYLINE DECISION.

Plus Torchwood's ratings were not impressive, even for a digital channel, after the first few episodes.

Torchwood's ratings were, IIRC, better than anything else on BBC3, and the premiere was one of the highest rated programs on that channel ever (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6077078.stm). True, it was a very uneven program content-wise, but it was not a bad performer for BBC3.

[Cyke]

As far as I can tell, Martha > Torchwood, so it makes a bit of sense to have her on Torchwood for the sake of elevating the show's quality.

Now, whether or not it works is a wholly different matter.

[Tadhg]

Plus Torchwood's ratings were not impressive, even for a digital channel, after the first few episodes.

Then why were BBC Two and BBC Three fighting over who'd get to air it?

[mattx110]

As far as I can tell, Martha > Torchwood, so it makes a bit of sense to have her on Torchwood for the sake of elevating the show's quality.

Now, whether or not it works is a wholly different matter.

umm, im taking bets on which TW member she sleeps with first.

she seems like a "gwen" type person to me;)
owen is just too un-doctor-like to appeal to her at all on any level.

[Holacik]

umm, im taking bets on which TW member she sleeps with first.

she seems like a "gwen" type person to me;)
owen is just too un-doctor-like to appeal to her at all on any level.

I doubt she sleeps with anyone, she'll still be pining for the good doctor.

[king mob]

It's like talking to a wall... SHE WASN'T DUMPED!!! SHE'S COMING BACK! IT'S A BLOODY STORYLINE DECISION.

So Catherine Tate can become the companion, yes? That's (as it seems) not storyline based but more about raising Tate's profile. It shows that Davies hasn't got the confidence to keep Agyeman on permantly in Who.

Whether you like it or not; this is more about people's profiles and marketing than storylines.



Torchwood's ratings were, IIRC, better than anything else on BBC3, and the premiere was one of the highest rated programs on that channel ever (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6077078.stm). True, it was a very uneven program content-wise, but it was not a bad performer for BBC3.

The first few episodes were rated highly but it bled viewers compared to equivalent programmes such as Little Britain.

[king mob]

Then why were BBC Two and BBC Three fighting over who'd get to air it?

Because it was one of the few higher profile programmes that was even remotely successful that BBC3 had left. Disasters like 'Tittybangbang' are all BBC3 have left.

[Paul McEnery]

So Catherine Tate can become the companion, yes? That's (as it seems) not storyline based but more about raising Tate's profile. It shows that Davies hasn't got the confidence to keep Agyeman on permantly in Who.

Whether you like it or not; this is more about people's profiles and marketing than storylines.




The first few episodes were rated highly but it bled viewers compared to equivalent programmes such as Little Britain.

Thing one: the profile is about raising Torchwood. Davies is pretty (financially) invested in the show.

Thing two: oh God is it about the storyline. Davies has this lonely doctor thing on the brain. So Martha has to be sacrificed. And Davies also has this economy thing going on. Economy: Face of Boe = Jack. Seen? So Donna has to come back. And Sally Sparrow too, apparently. And then Martha, too. And probably Jack.

If we don't get an orgy out of this, I'm going to be very disappointed.

[rick]

'Tittybangbang'


I just have to ask, Tittybangbang?

[Spike-X]

I just have to ask, Tittybangbang?
I think that's a question that's on everybody's minds, rick.

[Tadhg]

Because it was one of the few higher profile programmes that was even remotely successful that BBC3 had left. Disasters like 'Tittybangbang' are all BBC3 have left.

That and all the episodes of Torchwood were in the top 20 for BBC3 for the year.

[Enigmanaut]

So Catherine Tate can become the companion, yes? That's (as it seems) not storyline based but more about raising Tate's profile. It shows that Davies hasn't got the confidence to keep Agyeman on permantly in Who.

Whether you like it or not; this is more about people's profiles and marketing than storylines.

Nope, but thanks for playing. Giving a few episodes to re-establish Donna as a companion is a storyline decision. Catherine Tate is so notable that Freema's presence or absence in the story is more or less irrelevant to the amount of press or notoriety that Tate will generate. Allowing the character of Martha Jones to grace Torchwood while Donna reboards the TARDIS doesn't make any difference at all to Tate's introduction on a marketing level, but a world of difference to the storyline. Having Martha there for Donna's reintroduction to the story would clutter that story, while bringing Martha back in a couple episodes allows for the two stories (Donna's reintroduction to the Doctor, and her an Martha's first meeting) to be told without bogging down one episode.

So, it's thematically stronger to have Martha away, but press-wise makes no nevermind.

And sending her to Torchwood for a 3 episode arc allows a number of other really good things:

1.) Freema is employed for the same number of episodes as she would have been should she have stayed only on Doctor Who, and thus her contract is fulfilled and she makes her same money. She was employed by the Doctor Who office for a whole 13 ep run this year, she's employed by the Doctor Who office for a whole 13 ep run next year.
2.) Freema's presence generates a little press for Torchwood, and probably increases viewership for her arc.
3.) Freema gets another credit for her CV.

The first few episodes were rated highly but it bled viewers compared to equivalent programmes such as Little Britain.

It dropped after the first two or three episodes, but still was more watched than any other BBC3 show during its run. And I quote:




The first episodes of Torchwood on BBC Three gave the channel its highest ever ratings, and the highest ratings of any digital non-sports channel, at 2.519 million viewers. The audience share was 12.7%, increasing to 13.8% for the second episode (shown immediately after the first episode on the same day), despite viewership dropping to 2.498 million.

Ratings for later episodes dropped to around 1.2-1.3 million viewers during the first showing on BBC Three, and 2.2-2.3 million on during the repeat showing on BBC Two (dropping to under 1.1 and 1.8 respectively for the week ending 10/12/06), but nevertheless, the show remained the most viewed programme on BBC Three by a wide margin.

Any way you slice this, Freema's fortunes have not changed... she was not in any way dumped, and is being shown more faith than anyone since John Barrowman.

[Magneto_X]

umm, im taking bets on which TW member she sleeps with first.

she seems like a "gwen" type person to me;)
owen is just too un-doctor-like to appeal to her at all on any level.

For a show that has a rep for its cast being sluts I fail to see anyone sleeping each other in any eps.

The closest I've seen was Gwen having a romantic night with her boyfriend at home and Susie admiting she slept with Owen (and that was off-screen).

Oh, and there's also the Sex Alien ep where Gwen made out with the possessed chick. That was hot! :D

[mattx110]

For a show that has a rep for its cast being sluts I fail to see anyone sleeping each other in any eps.

The closest I've seen was Gwen having a romantic night with her boyfriend at home and Susie admiting she slept with Owen (and that was off-screen).

Oh, and there's also the Sex Alien ep where Gwen made out with the possessed chick. That was hot! :D

owen slept with pilot-chick. which was probably the best torchwood episode, so... we should be demanding more sex...

Ianto had a thing with jack... tosh had at least one night with owen in the past, gwen and owen had a thing...

it is a lot more non-evident than people complain about, but it's more fun to complain about that than the annoying characters.

[LtMarvel]

In the season opener, what happened at the very end with the bride? I saw the bad guy get shot out of the sky, what happened after that?

[Magneto_X]

owen slept with pilot-chick. which was probably the best torchwood episode, so... we should be demanding more sex...

I didn't count that since she wasn't a member of TW.

Ianto had a thing with jack... tosh had at least one night with owen in the past, gwen and owen had a thing...

When does Tosh admit this? When did Owen & Gwen have a "thing"?

I've seen most of the first season and I haven't seen much confirmation with jack & Ianto. There's some chemistry but I haven't seen conclusive proof yet.

The only eps I haven't seen yet are the one where TW is visited by those people from the past and the finale.


it is a lot more non-evident than people complain about, but it's more fun to complain about that than the annoying characters.

Exactly my point.

LtMarvel:

The Doctor left Donna with her family. The next time we see him he's a patient in Martha's hospital.

[Cyke]

The Doctor left Donna with her family. The next time we see him he's a patient in Martha's hospital.

Yeah, Donna has that affect on people...

[Spike-X]

Yeah, Donna has that affect on people...
"For some reason, I've got this ringing in my ears..."

[jadrax]

So Catherine Tate can become the companion, yes? That's (as it seems) not storyline based but more about raising Tate's profile. It shows that Davies hasn't got the confidence to keep Agyeman on permantly in Who.

Whether you like it or not; this is more about people's profiles and marketing than storylines.

Do Your work for the Sun? ;o)

[jadrax]

I just have to ask, Tittybangbang?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tittybangbang

[Monkey]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tittybangbang

The Tom Cruise impression always cracked me up, mostly because she really did LOOK, SOUND and ACT just like him!

[hi! Lord Fear]

i only hope, from what i saw from the finale, that season 4 has the following; Dr. Martha Jones scientific adviser of UNIT:D

[Matt]

I'm still hoping UNIT decides that Torchwood is a joke and does away them entirely, then a UNIT series starts up. A series based on a UNIT squad, focusing on military decisions and action against alien incursions and technology - occasionally guest starring Brigadier (or general, as he'd be) Lethbridge-Stewart as the overall head of UNIT.

[mattx110]

Exactly my point.
owen slept with pilot-chick. which was probably the best torchwood episode, so... we should be demanding more sex...

I didn't count that since she wasn't a member of TW.

Ianto had a thing with jack... tosh had at least one night with owen in the past, gwen and owen had a thing...

When does Tosh admit this? When did Owen & Gwen have a "thing"?
I've seen most of the first season and I haven't seen much confirmation with jack & Ianto. There's some chemistry but I haven't seen conclusive proof yet.

The only eps I haven't seen yet are the one where TW is visited by those people from the past and the finale.

it is a lot more non-evident than people complain about, but it's more fun to complain about that than the annoying characters.


jack and ianto didn't really have a pay-off until the finale where it's obvious ianto had more than represented with jack. and there's the stopwatch scene.
toshiko mentions a one time thing with owen that she thought was more permanent in the episode with the psychic pendant and then she slept with alien-lady. and gwen and owen slept together, hence her retconning her boyfriend when she had to deal with her feelings. but pretty much all the "Wild sex! woohoo" was either plot or character related. and it's almost always a bad idea that leads to worse consequences. i think the message is "if you're in a secret organization, don't act like this, it's horribly unprofessional".

[ragnarok_2012]

I'm still hoping UNIT decides that Torchwood is a joke and does away them entirely, then a UNIT series starts up. A series based on a UNIT squad, focusing on military decisions and action against alien incursions and technology - occasionally guest starring Brigadier (or general, as he'd be) Lethbridge-Stewart as the overall head of UNIT.

I have an idea for a series:

John Simm the Master didn't actually die.

He was transported in time to 1973,

where he's just been named as the new head of UNIT....

[Paul McEnery]

That and all the episodes of Torchwood were in the top 20 for BBC3 for the year.

That is like being top of League Division Three.

Only slightly less high of a profile.

[rick]

I have an idea for a series:

John Simm the Master didn't actually die.

He was transported in time to 1973,

where he's just been named as the new head of UNIT....


If that happened, all that would mean is that Jon Pertwee's Doctor, in his role as UNIT science advisor, would get to kick Sim's ass around instead of David Tennent.

But the soundtrack would be awsome.

[ragnarok_2012]

If that happened, all that would mean is that Jon Pertwee's Doctor, in his role as UNIT science advisor, would get to kick Sim's ass around instead of David Tennent.

But the soundtrack would be awsome.

The two words I have missed oh so much:

Venusian Aikido

[king mob]

Nope, but thanks for playing.
Ludo?

Giving a few episodes to re-establish Donna as a companion is a storyline decision. Catherine Tate is so notable that Freema's presence or absence in the story is more or less irrelevant to the amount of press or notoriety that Tate will generate.

Which is exactly the point. Tate is more notable than her character or Agyeman which is just what the majority of the publicity has been about. Of course we don't know yet how she'll play it but as it stands Tate's casting as a regular is more about Tate's profile as a 'BBC Celeb' than what may, or may not, happen storywise.

Allowing the character of Martha Jones to grace Torchwood while Donna reboards the TARDIS doesn't make any difference at all to Tate's introduction on a marketing level, but a world of difference to the storyline. Having Martha there for Donna's reintroduction to the story would clutter that story, while bringing Martha back in a couple episodes allows for the two stories (Donna's reintroduction to the Doctor, and her an Martha's first meeting) to be told without bogging down one episode.

Torchwood has to push itself up in the ratings to justify the money being spent upon it. Ok the charater of Martha Jones will add ratings but it still smacks of being shunted sideways.

3.) Freema gets another credit for her CV.

Which hopefully doesn't rank up there with 'Crossroads'.



It dropped after the first two or three episodes, but still was more watched than any other BBC3 show during its run.

It was but it bled viewers and spinning on about the first few episodes can't really hide that.




Any way you slice this, Freema's fortunes have not changed... she was not in any way dumped, and is being shown more faith than anyone since John Barrowman.

It's like shagging Angelina Jollie for a year then being told you have to start shagging Anne Widecombe for a few months while the cool folk have a go at Angie.

[king mob]

Do Your work for the Sun? ;o)

No, I can use words and everyfing.

[Paul McEnery]

No, I can use words and everyfink.

Fixed it for you. -- Ed.

[tricksterpup]

I found this interesting on the Martha Jones myspace. this was the last comment on her last blog (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=166447207&blogID=284140370).


PS: And I've just had an email offering me a job if I pass my exams! You wouldn't believe who it's from.

[spidervenom]

Just finished the series 3 finale and I have to say that so far of all 3 series of the dr who reboot that the master has been my favorite villain so far even more than the daleks I just loved how he took over the planet so easily and screwed with the doctor especilly with the toglafane. and I sure hope that he comes back in series 5.

[mattx110]

I found this interesting on the Martha Jones myspace. this was the last comment on her last blog (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=166447207&blogID=284140370).

haha, hopefully this means dr. owen is taking some time off to soul-search for the martha episodes and will come back not a jackass as she jumps back on the tardis.

[king mob]

Fixed it for you. -- Ed.

Eye fank yoo.

[tricksterpup]

haha, hopefully this means dr. owen is taking some time off to soul-search for the martha episodes and will come back not a jackass as she jumps back on the tardis.

I was thinking more along the lines of Capt Jack.

[Eclips0]

One question, In episode 11, Martha says to the Doctor right in front of Jack, "Remember what the Face of Bo said?" How come Jack didn't mention that The Face of Bo was his nickname then? He was standing right in front of her and looking at her as she said it.

[jadrax]

One question, In episode 11, Martha says to the Doctor right in front of Jack, "Remember what the Face of Bo said?" How come Jack didn't mention that The Face of Bo was his nickname then? He was standing right in front of her and looking at her as she said it.

I think that's what triggered him to tell them at the end before he left?

[Eclips0]

yeah but in episode 12 when they sat down and talked he should've brought it up.

[jadrax]

yeah but in episode 12 when they sat down and talked he should've brought it up.

Depends, playing it close to his chest might have been more beneficial.

If I found out you knew me from the future, but didn't know it was me, I am not sure weather I would want you to know, in case you told me, or indeed if I would want you to know in case you didn't.

Far safer to point out it was me only when we parted.

[Eclips0]

He didn't say it as a revelation, just in passing.

It was a mistake, It didn't ruin the episode or anything, but it was a mistake.

So my theory is that the ring works the same as the fog watch, since it had similar markings on it. So I wonder if Lucy is now the Master.

[Paul McEnery]

haha, hopefully this means dr. owen is taking some time off to soul-search for the martha episodes and will come back not a jackass as she jumps back on the tardis.

Wha-hey! New totty in the office! What are you doing after work, darling?"

[king mob]

The first pic from the Christmas special is out.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/07/entertainment_enl_1184171185/img/1.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6292628.stm

Kylie in a maids outfit, yummy.

[king mob]

This here (http://keithtopping.blogspot.com/2007/07/well-its-been-right-funny-old-week-to.html)is a wonderfull piss take of OG & Who fans there, but it also nails every thread on the internet about the series.

[Sean Whitmore]

This here (http://keithtopping.blogspot.com/2007/07/well-its-been-right-funny-old-week-to.html)is a wonderfull piss take of OG & Who fans there, but it also nails every thread on the internet about the series.

That was fantastic.

I'm bookmarking that and keeping it at the ready, because a lot of those translations can relate to conversations that happen here every day (here as in CBR, not this thread).


SEAN

[SPAfreak]

The first pic from the Christmas special is out.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/07/entertainment_enl_1184171185/img/1.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6292628.stm

Kylie in a maids outfit, yummy.

Huh.

I'll be in my bunk.

[king mob]

I'll be licking the screen when she's on.

[jadrax]

He didn't say it as a revelation, just in passing.


Nah, it was the very last thing he said as he was walking away, He knew what he was saying - I think it was definitely said as a Revelation rather than in passing.

[Haydn C]

Did any of the other UK posters know there is a Doctor Who omnibus on UKTVDrama this weekend? It's a themed weekend of selected episodes so viewers can choose the best Doctor.
It started at 8am, I've only just spotted it, 1pm now, but I'm watching Peter Davidson in The Caves of Androzani.

[IamtheRock3]

well saw 2 episodes with martha over here on the scifi channel

She pretty good. Funny, and hot. Doesnt bounch of the doctor as well as rose, but much nicer to look at.Did like that she went to save the guy drowning with her doctor skilzzs. Show she doesnt wait for dotor to do all the work

Also she ask questions I always wondered. Granted the questions were brush off in a way that said "Its a show, dont worry about science to much and enjoy the ride"

but nice to ask. Doctor comment about the butterfly was funny

[Magneto_X]

Iamthe Rock:

Martha just keeps getting better during the season.

I like her a *lot* more then I ever did with Rose.

[Tobias March]

Iamthe Rock:

Martha just keeps getting better during the season.

I like her a *lot* more then I ever did with Rose.

"I met Shakespeare" :)

[Arune Singh]

Iamthe Rock:

Martha just keeps getting better during the season.

I like her a *lot* more then I ever did with Rose.

Agreed. And she may be my favorite companion too.

[king mob]

Some incredibly great DVD news. First of all, the rest of the year's releases are out.

http://www.yartek.co.uk/dru.jpg

Even better though is the list of extras at the BBFC for the Key To Time box-set. Those with an R1 version might want to look away now....

00:02:05:13 (continuities) (disc 1)
00:00:39:21 (season 16 Trail)
00:06:00:18 The Ribos Operation - Photo Gallery
00:19:36:04 The Ribos File
00:00:58:10 Doctor Who - Coming Soon To Dvd... - Planet Of Evil
00:59:59:10 A Matter Of Time

00:03:41:01 (continuities) (disc 2)
00:13:55:23 (untitled)
00:17:23:13 Weird Science
00:06:59:22 The Pirate Planet - Photo Gallery
N/a Doctor Who - Coming Soon To Dvd... - Planet Of Evil (00:00:58:10
00:30:27:17 Parrot Fashion

00:02:39:24 The Model World Of Robert Symes - Mat Irvine's Models (disc 3)
00:06:03:04 Blue Peter
00:02:09:21 (untitled)
00:08:46:05 (untitled)
00:02:21:14 (continuities)
00:13:04:10 Hammer Horror
00:08:57:15 Stones Free
00:08:00:02 The Stones Of Blood - Photo Gallery
N/a Doctor Who - Coming Soon To Dvd... - Planet Of Evil (00:00:58:10)
00:26:31:11 Getting Blood From The Stones

00:11:01:22 Double Trouble (disc 4)
00:21:12:05 The Humans Of Tara
00:07:43:20 The Androids Of Tara - Photo Gallery
00:10:17:00 Now And Then - The Androids Of Tara
N/a Doctor Who - Coming Soon To Dvd... - Planet Of Evil (00:00:58:10)

00:06:23:16 "variations" (disc 5)
00:02:47:09 (continuities)
00:11:24:19 The Power Of Kroll - Studio Extracts
00:09:39:20 Philip Madoc - A Villain For All Seasons
00:04:52:13 The Power Of Kroll - Photo Gallery
00:09:45:06 There's Something About Mary...
N/a Doctor Who - Coming Soon To Dvd... - Planet Of Evil (00:00:58:10

00:08:28:20 (untitled) (disc 6)
00:00:58:10 (untitled)
00:00:25:17 Temporary Fault
00:00:20:22 (untitled)
00:02:54:03 (continuities)
00:02:49:07 (untitled)
00:04:26:04 First Broadcast In "pebble Mill At One"
00:13:09:00 Rogue Time Lords
00:04:45:07 The Armageddon Factor - Photo Gallery
00:08:23:17 Directing Who With Michael Hayes
00:01:11:05 (untitled)
00:15:38:04 Defining Shadows
N/a Doctor Who - Coming Soon To Dvd... - Planet Of Evil (00:00:58:10)

00:14:30:11 Late Night Story - The Photograph (disc 7)
00:13:42:02 Late Night Story - The Emissary
00:14:17:20 Late Night Story - Nursery Tea
00:14:59:15 Late Night Story - The End Of The Party
00:12:51:12 Late Night Story - Sredni Vashtar



The highlight for me is disc 7 which features Tom Baker's late night horror story (including stories by Nigel Kneale & Ray Bradbury)readings from Christmas 1978.

[king mob]

I see that the first title from series 4 has been announced-'Planet Of The Ood'.

I'm chuffed with that, I liked the Ood & thought they were wasted a bit in an otherwise fine story.

[mattx110]

I see that the first title from series 4 has been announced-'Planet Of The Ood'.

I'm chuffed with that, I liked the Ood & thought they were wasted a bit in an otherwise fine story.

i still don't get how communications devices can turn into flying yoyo like taser weapons...

other than maybe the devil is really good with electronics...
i guess it's not important.

now does the doctor help free a voluntary slave race? who knows...

[Magneto_X]

I wonder if that means the Devil will be returning?

[Sanagi]

I wonder if that means the Devil will be returning?
I think it's more likely that they'll get their own story instead of being monsters again. The premise of the Ood had more depth than was used in Impossible Planet/Satan Pit.

[Captain Jim]

Perhaps the Doctor will visit them at an earlier point in time (or a much later one).

[adamthered]

Is it Christmas yet...

And does anyone know if the series two DVDs are getting single disc releases here in the US like series one did? Waiting for them so I can pick them up for my cousin since they are so much cheaper than the boxsets.

[king mob]

Is it Christmas yet...

And does anyone know if the series two DVDs are getting single disc releases here in the US like series one did? Waiting for them so I can pick them up for my cousin since they are so much cheaper than the boxsets.

I don't know about the US but the BBC have released all three series so far on basic single disc edition with no extras. The first two series discs can be picked up fairly cheap (less than a tenner) which is certainly cheaper than the series one boxset which still comes in at a meaty 70 quid. It might be worth searching out Ebay if you have a multi-region player for some bargains.

Talking about boxsets. Here's the packaging for the Key To Time DVD set.

http://www.bbcshop.com/content/ebiz/bbc/invt/bbcdvd2335/KeyToTime-LRG.jpg

[Magneto_X]

Romana I is the hottest Doctor companion. :)

Plus she's incredibly smart.

[Sean Whitmore]

Romana I is the hottest Doctor companion. :)

Nay!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/whitmore_sean/clip_image002.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y245/whitmore_sean/clip_image003.jpg


SEAN

[king mob]

There is a rumour in The Sun (which either talks utter bollocks rehashed from Outpost Gallifrey, or spot-on info from some geezer in Wales) that Steven Moffat will replace RTD, and James Nesbitt will replace Tennant after series 4.

Moffat is a sound choice: Nesbitt less so as he's got far too much baggage (films like Bloody Sunday are a huge exception) to possibly work in the role. Of course the fact the DVD of Jekyll (written by Moffat and starring Nesbitt) was released this week is utter coincidence.

[mattx110]

There is a rumour in The Sun (which either talks utter bollocks rehashed from Outpost Gallifrey, or spot-on info from some geezer in Wales) that Steven Moffat will replace RTD, and James Nesbitt will replace Tennant after series 4.

Moffat is a sound choice: Nesbitt less so as he's got far too much baggage (films like Bloody Sunday are a huge exception) to possibly work in the role. Of course the fact the DVD of Jekyll (written by Moffat and starring Nesbitt) was released this week is utter coincidence.

i can believe moffat more than nesbitt, cause i've heard from fans they want moffat, and he's produced a couple hits so BBC likes him.

nesbitt could work with a less tom bakery more troughton hartnelly doctor i guess. i do kinda trust them to pick a doctor after the last two turned out so well, so i don't think there's any actor i'd be upset about. plus being an american, i've got a lot less baggage on actors in mostly british productions.

[ChrisIII]

Character Options, who does the WHO figures, has announced they will now do figures from the classic series as well as the new.

Since the only classic series stuff has been the rare Product Enterprise stuff and the cheap Dapol stuff, this is good news for fans.

[Mac Danny]

i can believe moffat more than nesbitt, cause i've heard from fans they want moffat, and he's produced a couple hits so BBC likes him.

nesbitt could work with a less tom bakery more troughton hartnelly doctor i guess. i do kinda trust them to pick a doctor after the last two turned out so well, so i don't think there's any actor i'd be upset about. plus being an american, i've got a lot less baggage on actors in mostly british productions.

I'd like This guy to replace Tennent. I have always thought that would be neat.

http://images.contactmusic.com/images/artist/colinsalmonap.jpg

I've liked him Ever since Keen Eddie.

[SPAfreak]

I'd like This guy to replace Tennent. I have always thought that would be neat.

http://images.contactmusic.com/images/artist/colinsalmonap.jpg

I've liked him Ever since Keen Eddie.

I've always thought that British actors were universally good at doing an American accent. Then I heard Colin Salmon's. I love the guy as an actor but damn that is awful.

[adamthered]

I'd be happy with James Nesbett. I've only ever seen him in Cold Feet but I liked him enough that I wouldn't complain at all if he took over for Tennant.

[ragnarok_2012]

There are so many actors that I think would be fun to see as the Doctor, but I think I'll stick with Richard Coyle (Jeffrey from Coupling).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ef/Richardcoyle.jpg

[Cyke]

There are so many actors that I think would be fun to see as the Doctor, but I think I'll stick with Richard Coyle (Jeffrey from Coupling).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ef/Richardcoyle.jpg

Great, we go from Lonely Doctor to Horny Doctor. :D

[ragnarok_2012]

Great, we go from Lonely Doctor to Horny Doctor. :D

Anxiety-prone, tall tale Doctor!

And I hear the new Doctor would have

an artificial leg!

[Magneto_X]

I'd like This guy to replace Tennent. I have always thought that would be neat.

http://images.contactmusic.com/images/artist/colinsalmonap.jpg

I've liked him Ever since Keen Eddie.

Wasn't he the squad leader in Resident Evil?

For the 10 minutes his character was alive he was awesome!

Got a charismatic & unique voice, too.

[Enigmanaut]

Steven Moffat just posted this on Outpost Gallifrey:

The James Nesbitt story is a total fabrication. Made up. A fantasy. Just a guy sitting at a desk and just inventing stuff.

I wasn't going to say anything, but I'm getting embarrassed for the deeply wonderful Jimmy Nesbitt. So tell everyone please, cos it's getting very silly.



Steven Moffat

Just doing what he told me.

[king mob]

i can believe moffat more than nesbitt, cause i've heard from fans they want moffat, and he's produced a couple hits so BBC likes him.

Jeykll was ok but suffered from huge gaping plot holes & badly written characters that spoiled what could have been an interesting series. It was still a success ratings wise but it was a sign of the sort of half-written story New Who has had a lot, especially in the second series.

nesbitt could work with a less tom bakery more troughton hartnelly doctor i guess. i do kinda trust them to pick a doctor after the last two turned out so well, so i don't think there's any actor i'd be upset about. plus being an american, i've got a lot less baggage on actors in mostly british productions.

It's quite clear that Davies doesn't care about an actor's baggage in the casting of Tate, but Nesbitt would have been a massive mistake. Whomever takes over is likely to be between 35-45, is reasonably well known mainly for being a respected actor if past casting is anything to go by.

Or it could be one of the Chuckle Brothers.

[Karl H]

Or it could be one of the Chuckle Brothers.

only if the other chuckle comes back as another new Master.

"To me... to you" type hilarity follows.

[Karl H]

Actually, that would work as a non-canonical comic relief type story.

The Doctor's regeneration is out of control and he keeps ending reincarnating as elaborately dressed shite comedians.

[king mob]

Some info.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6939302.stm

[IamtheRock3]

how many lives does the good Doc got left

he running low

and isnt one of them suspose to be eviiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiilllllllllllllll

[Magneto_X]

I:

3 more. But thanks to the Time War its possible the Time Lords gave him 13 more starting with Eccleson.

[IamtheRock3]

I:

3 more. But thanks to the Time War its possible the Time Lords gave him 13 more starting with Eccleson.


ahhh good out

[Sanagi]

Obviously they'll regenerate him as long as the series's popularity holds up, but I do hope they'll do something special when it comes to his "last" life. Have him become evil for a season before getting redeemed and reborn or something like that.

[Magneto_X]

Obviously they'll regenerate him as long as the series's popularity holds up, but I do hope they'll do something special when it comes to his "last" life. Have him become evil for a season before getting redeemed and reborn or something like that.

Even if it gets cancelled again it'll live on in other mediums. Then bought back later on.

I'd say Doctor Who is a property that live on indefinitely like Spiderman and Batman do.

I like the idea of him being evil for a while. Of course they'd have to rename it The Valeyard. ;)

[king mob]

It's unlikely that the BBC will kill off one of their biggest cash-cows & ratings success (even though the BBC isn't supposed to worry about ratings) at a time when the BBC is having a pretty difficult time.

[ChrisIII]

The Valeyard appears from a relatively unpopular era in the series's history, so I'm not sure we'll see the character. If you listen closely to the dialogue, he's not really a future Doctor per se but rather an 'amalgamation' of the Doctor's dark side. We see similar 'phantom' time lords in Planet of the Spiders (For Cho Je) and Logopolis (For Tom Baker's Doctor).


Then again, they brought the Macra back, from an episode nobody's really seen since the 60's (It's one of the completely missing serials apart from a few small clips). So anything's possible.

[jadrax]

I:

3 more. But thanks to the Time War its possible the Time Lords gave him 13 more starting with Eccleson.

Actually, with the Time Lords being gone there may no longer be a limit on regenerations at all. A lot of the rules that limited the Doctor where there because the Time Lords imposed them, it could be that they allowed more regenerations rather than creating more.

[Gary Joyce]

Eddie Izzard for the role of the Doctor when Tennant leaves.

[ultramandingo]

.......in high heels!

[Legato]

For the record this is a serious question so I dont want no comedic replies. Someone on this thread came up with a idea of a female Doctor after Tennant leaves.

Would a female Doctor be acceptable to the fans of the series? I think a female Doctor is possible since I dont think that The Doctor cant regenerate into a female right?

[Magneto_X]

I'd be fine with a female Doctor.

But Outpost Gallifrey would probably have a heart attack.

[Cyke]

A female Doctor with the charm of Tennant, the color of Colin Baker, and the fashion sense of Jon Pertwee...

...would be one VERY fun Doctor to watch.

[Spike-X]

I'd be fine with a female Doctor.

But Outpost Gallifrey would probably have a heart attack.
And the down side would be...?

[Spike-X]

Eddie Izzard for the role of the Doctor when Tennant leaves.
"No, I'm not wearing that scarf! It totally clashes with this skirt!"

At least with Izzard playing the Doctor, he wouldn't be doing his horrible American accent.

[Legato]

And the down side would be...?

I just would love to see Jack Harkness's reaction to a female Doctor.

[ragnarok_2012]

"No, I'm not wearing that scarf! It totally clashes with this skirt!"

At least with Izzard playing the Doctor, he wouldn't be doing his horrible American accent.

I think Eddie Izzard's American accent is fine, personally.

Well, I should say that I think it sounds accurate. If you don't like our accents, though, that's another matter entirely.

[Enigmanaut]

I just would love to see Jack Harkness's reaction to a female Doctor.

Why would it be any different than it is now?

[Legato]

Why would it be any different than it is now?

True, he would still hit on The Doctor but could be more determened about it when it comes to the female version.

[Spike-X]

I think Eddie Izzard's American accent is fine, personally.


From the clip you showed me, it's certainly improved from when he was in Mystery Men.

[king mob]

I'd be fine with a female Doctor.

But Outpost Gallifrey would probably have a heart attack.

And then some.


Actually JNT did seriously consider a female Doctor at one point (but settled on McCoy) if rumour is to be believed.

[blackphoenix]

Dammit, I can't read half of this cuz I only just got thru watching season 1!!! OOH I can't believe Christopher Eccleston only did one season! That sucks.

QUESTION: Captain Jack comes back, right? RIGHT?????

[Paul McEnery]

I think it's fairly obvious who the new doctor has to be.

Philip Glenister.

[darkhanamaru]

I think it's fairly obvious who the new doctor has to be.

Philip Glenister.

Except his character Gene Hunt just got his own series which is now filming. His character is now a DCI in 1981 London. Right up your alley Paul....

[Enigmanaut]

Dammit, I can't read half of this cuz I only just got thru watching season 1!!! OOH I can't believe Christopher Eccleston only did one season! That sucks.

QUESTION: Captain Jack comes back, right? RIGHT?????

Not soon. End of Series 3.