Ultimate Iron Man #1 Discussion + Spoilers [Archive]

Jake V

03-02-2005, 07:03 PM

In the long and recent tradition of title characters barely appearing in their own books comes Ultimate Iron Man #1. Where Daredevil, Ultimate Spider-Man, The Incredible Hulk, and the regular MU Iron Man were content to go through an issue without showing the super-hero in action, not showing up til the end, or not appearing in costume at all, Ultimate Iron Man takes it a step further and goes through an issue without the title character appearing in any form at all, in fact Tony Stark/Iron Man hasn't been born yet by the final page.

So, I guess this what you can expect when you just give a brand new comic book to someone who's never written a comic at all in the past. At least he didn't do any gay bashing.

What happens in the issue? Nothing really. A guy who is presumably Tony Stark's father invents a bacterial armor that needs to be painted on. A woman who is presumably Tony Starks mother reinacts a scene from 28 days later. Finally, some dude with a mustache takes over the Stark company.

All in all, nothing to get too excited about, nothing all that impressive either.

Shellhead

03-02-2005, 07:28 PM

Core

03-02-2005, 07:35 PM

Hopefully Card will pick up the pace and skip over Tony's toilet training.

Heheh! Let's hope.

I didn't mind the pacing in this one and liked getting Howard's backstory.

I can totally see how Tony's absence from his own book could rankle some folks though.

shadowwolf47

03-02-2005, 07:56 PM

You are suprised? It has been said since they anounced this book that it would be a origin story and start with Tony's parents.

Greymarch

03-02-2005, 08:39 PM

So, I guess this what you can expect when you just give a brand new comic book to someone who's never written a comic at all in the past. At least he didn't do any gay bashing.

In November 2004, 51% of the American people expressed political views very similar to Mr. Card's political views. Get over it. What you deem "gay-bashing" many of us deem completely rational discourse. You were going to give this comic a bad review no matter how good it was.

I am reading the new Iron Man, written by Warren Ellis, despite his obvious liberal leanings. I am an Iron Man fan, and I try to get past the writer's political views, hoping a good story will emerge. Give Orson the same consideration.

I enjoyed Ultimate Iron Man #1, although I do agree with the premise that a comic book hero should actually appear in each and every comic that has his name on the cover. Having said that, the premise of the mini-series is to create a new origin for Iron Man in the Ultimates universe, so Tony not appearing in the first comic book is somewhat reasonable.

On a scale of 1 to 10, I give Ultimate Iron Man #1 a seven. If Tony Stark had appeared in the comic, I would give it a eight. If Tony had worn the Iron Man armor, I would give it a nine.

Shellhead

03-02-2005, 08:45 PM

Well, at least the story didn't start on the Mayflower.

Jake V

03-02-2005, 09:06 PM

In November 2004, 51% of the American people expressed political views very similar to Mr. Card's political views. Get over it. What you deem "gay-bashing" many of us deem completely rational discourse. You were going to give this comic a bad review no matter how good it was.

I am reading the new Iron Man, written by Warren Ellis, despite his obvious liberal leanings. I am an Iron Man fan, and I try to get past the writer's political views, hoping a good story will emerge. Give Orson the same consideration.

I enjoyed Ultimate Iron Man #1, although I do agree with the premise that a comic book hero should actually appear in each and every comic that has his name on the cover. Having said that, the premise of the mini-series is to create a new origin for Iron Man in the Ultimates universe, so Tony not appearing in the first comic book is somewhat reasonable.

On a scale of 1 to 10, I give Ultimate Iron Man #1 a seven. If Tony Stark had appeared in the comic, I would give it a eight. If Tony had worn the Iron Man armor, I would give it a nine.
It was a joke based on all the "controversy" leading up to the book's release. Get over yourself.

Turd_Ferguson

03-02-2005, 10:16 PM

The big difference to me between this and other books where the title characters don't show up (Bendis's first arc on UXM anyone?) is that this is actually very well written and entertaining. I thought it was very good.

discostu

03-02-2005, 11:54 PM

this book was great. Explaining why Iron Man is so smart was really cool, and setting up Obadiah Stane as the son of his fathers ex-wife and arch enemy was brilliant. I wonder how the constant pain aspect is going to play out. And now that I think about it, does this mean that Tony Stark is smarter than Reed Richards in the Ultimate Universe?

thik_3rd

03-02-2005, 11:57 PM

it was decent...

lboinyamouf4sho

03-03-2005, 04:54 AM

although there was no real action, i felt it did its job as a 1st issue in that it got me interested enough that i will be buying the rest of the 1st story arc, unless it turns to utter crap in the next issue.

KristyJo

03-03-2005, 07:18 AM

Ender's Game is one of my favorite books, so I was excited to see what Orson would do here, and I thought it was a good story. And I wasn't overly disappointed that Tony was not in his own book because I did read that it was about his parents. It was a little dark and depressing, seeing what tragedy Tony comes from... And I wonder if this virus thing that makes him so smart will also be the reason he has a brain tumor now, if there's any correlation. Overall, I like the story, I thought it had a good pace, and the art was good. So I'll be sticking around.

After reading it though... why is there a "Parental Advisory" on the front? What exactly pushes this over? I didn't think it was that graphic or anything, so just wondering at the reason for that.

lboinyamouf4sho

03-03-2005, 07:28 AM

i think if the 1st issue of every ultimate title is going to follow this pattern they should start making every #1 a double size. in 2 issues they should be able to get a little more stuff in there w/o sacrificing the story.

Beast

03-03-2005, 08:50 AM

Ultimate Iron Man takes it a step further and goes through an issue without the title character appearing in any form at all, in fact Tony Stark/Iron Man hasn't been born yet by the final page.
Tony Stark does actually appear in the first issue. He appears as a fetus. :)

Poltrgeyst

03-03-2005, 08:51 AM

Loved it! This whole mini series is supposed to be an origin story, and they've started by breaking great ground. Giving explanations to Tony's parental history as well as a reason for his super genius was a welcome and pretty original take. Kid's not even born and already I feel for him. Howard Stark has the qualities I love in many a supporting character: kind, loving, and obsessively focused. Didn't see them clearcutting the forest in his life cuz the trees around him were fine. Kubert is always awesome to look at.

Looking forward to more, after approaching this with some trepidation.

The Adventurer

03-03-2005, 08:57 AM

I hate everything Ultimate, can't stand the consept behind making my favorite character X-TREAM!!! Check how FLAWED they are, ISN'T THAT X-TREAM!!!! Watch Cap kick a man when he's down! IT'S X-TREAM!!!!!!!

With that being said, Card's Iron Man story is a solid piece of Science Fiction, with some fun moments and a good set up. It's a piss poor Superhero story though, and another one of Marvel's Padded Origin Arcs they love to pound us over the head with, I hate 6 issue story arcs when it's unnessisary.

So I plan to keep reading it at the comic shop but not give Marvel any of my money for it.

Card should do some creator owned comic work, he could OWN in this medium.

Evan Waters

03-03-2005, 09:35 AM

In November 2004, 51% of the American people expressed political views very similar to Mr. Card's political views.

Therefore he is right and we must never criticize the majority.

(Strictly speaking, this isn't true anyway. A majority of people would approve of civil unions, whereas he wants sodomy laws back in place.)

JeffreyWKramer

03-03-2005, 09:50 AM

In November 2004, 51% of the American people expressed political views very similar to Mr. Card's political views. Get over it. What you deem "gay-bashing" many of us deem completely rational discourse.

Nazis and Klansmen consider themselves rational, too.

Whether based on simple ignorance or on religious doctrine, bigotry is bigotry, and Card is a bigot in regard to gays.

Hopefully that won't have any bearing on this book, though. Card is a very competent writer, even if I don't think much of him as a human being.

It will be interesting to see how he deals with the Ultimate version of Jarvis, who is gay, or whether he simply disincludes him from the book.

I read it in the store. Slow-moving, but not bad. It has some promise, and will wait to see where it goes. So far, I'd give it a solid B.

StoneGold

03-03-2005, 10:02 AM

Interesting how Tony seems to share some very similiar traits with Bean in Ender's Shadow.

Shellhead

03-03-2005, 10:32 AM

Interesting how Tony seems to share some very similiar traits with Bean in Ender's Shadow.

Interesting? Or lazy writing?

StoneGold

03-03-2005, 10:51 AM

Interesting? Or lazy writing?
Man, you just have an unending grudge against this book, don't you?

Shellhead

03-03-2005, 11:06 AM

Man, you just have an unending grudge against this book, don't you?

I just hate this modern trend of super-hero comics without super-heros. LIke when Bruce Jones wrote the Hulk. Or the current Strange series. Or that lousy Silver Surfer comic last year, the one with hardly any Silver Surfer in it. I want super-hero adventures, not sluggish decompressed stories about normal people.

Jack

03-03-2005, 11:19 AM

StoneGold

03-03-2005, 11:39 AM

I want super-hero adventures, not sluggish decompressed stories about normal people.
So, genetically modified genius baby with constant 3rd degree burns and an oversized brain whose mother and father were trying to create a living bacterial armor, while his father's ex-wife steals the company from under his nose is normal?

Shellhead

03-03-2005, 11:39 AM

I love superhero stories too, but I think there are so many more comics worthy of your bile than this one. At least so far.

True. I just get so disappointed with the way Iron Man has been written in recent years.

The Adventurer

03-03-2005, 12:01 PM

So, genetically modified genius baby with constant 3rd degree burns and an oversized brain whose mother and father were trying to create a living bacterial armor, while his father's ex-wife steals the company from under his nose is normal?

No, but its still pretty mundane in alot of ways where sci-fi in conserned. Action and Adventure can be paired with Drama. You don't have to do one OR the other.

Will.S

03-03-2005, 12:19 PM

Ultimate Iron Man's past up to the point where he appears in The Ultimates hasn't been fleshed out so his solo limited series is the perfect opportunity to do it. The rest have had some pretty good development like Steve and Thor or are going to have them in future issues.

I would have liked to have seen Iron Man up and running post Ultimates myself but I don't mind origin stories especially if it's a mini and it has more bearing on Tony than a limited run of adventures that don't advance the character or bring more depth to him.

petriacce

03-03-2005, 01:09 PM

Interesting? Or lazy writing?How can it be lazy writing if Millar is writing Ultimates and we haven't read anything written by Card about Tony yet in this series?

I hate everything Ultimate,...Then why waste your time and ours.

Angry people reading comics they admit they don't like and commenting on them. Five more issues to go, and then maybe you can read the trade too.

This issue was a good start to what can be a great mini series. Ultimates is an excellent title and it's great to get some information on one of the single characters.

The Adventurer

03-03-2005, 01:30 PM

How can it be lazy writing if Millar is writing Ultimates and we haven't read anything written by Card about Tony yet in this series?

He's talking about comparing Tony to Bean. It's lazy writing if he's rehashing a character he created for another book. I don't see it myself, but It's an interesting annalogy. It's like how miller is rehashing The Athority with the Ultimates, Lazy writing.

Then why waste your time and ours.

Angry people reading comics they admit they don't like and commenting on them. Five more issues to go, and then maybe you can read the trade too.

Perhaps if you'd read the rest of my post you'd have realized I didn't hate Ultimate Iron Man as a comic. I hate it because a perfectly good story is wasted on a lamn consept. Imagine if this same story was writin without being tied down to Ultimate continuty. It'd be a fantastic drama series, about corporate espianoge, genetic tamering, and other things like that. But having Iron Man taped to it means I go in expecting something (Iron Man) that I don't get and am let down.

Moses

03-03-2005, 01:46 PM

I didn't feel this issues was padded, as a die-hard IM fan I thought it was really, really good. I felt the concept that is being laid down was really interesting ( I haven't read Ender's Game so I can't comment on the analogy with one of OSC's older characters). Having said that I have no problem with Tony's only appearance being him as a foetus IF he appears properly (not neccessarily in armour) in the next ish. I felt it was really well done this issue, but I want it to move on a bit more forward in the next one, say mid-teens, or just as he inherits his dad's business.
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I just realised I advocated the return of 'Teen Tony,' I feel somewhat dirty.

petriacce

03-03-2005, 01:47 PM

He's talking about comparing Tony to Bean. It's lazy writing if he's rehashing a character he created for another book. I don't see it myself, but It's an interesting annalogy. It's like how miller is rehashing The Athority with the Ultimates, Lazy writing.Uh...how can Tony be compared to Bean before Tony even makes an appearance. Orson Scott Card wrote "Ender's Shadow"/the character Bean. We haven't read anything about Tony by Card yet. So...no rehashing. It's the typical whining and making things up about a story before it's been read.

I heavily disagree that Millar's writing on Ultimates is lazy. Similarities exist, sure, but I'll take that over bad writing anyday. The Ultimates has been an excellent title.

Perhaps if you'd read the rest of my post you'd have realized I didn't hate Ultimate Iron Man as a comic. I hate it because a perfectly good story is wasted on a lamn consept. Imagine if this same story was writin without being tied down to Ultimate continuty. It'd be a fantastic drama series, about corporate espianoge, genetic tamering, and other things like that. But having Iron Man taped to it means I go in expecting something (Iron Man) that I don't get and am let down.Can you image reading the opening line of your post, "I hate everything Ultimate...", and thinking you have a positive aspect in the remainder of your post? No. If you haven't liked anything Ultimate up to this point, WHY would you pick up Ultimate Iron Man? Issue one is what they call the setup, I'm sure we'll get to Iron Man at some point. It's a similar structure to most big books.

The Adventurer

03-03-2005, 02:14 PM

If you haven't liked anything Ultimate up to this point, WHY would you pick up Ultimate Iron Man?

I like to give books a chance before I condem them, even books from a line I openly scoff at. I mean, how would I be able to base a complaint off a book I havn't taken the time to accualy read? I don't very well want to be one of the flapping jaw idiots who just complain without facts to back them up. I try to keep up with a number of titles I generaly dislike, just so I can have something to work with to sway others AWAY from such titles. There are infinitly better titles out there, then Ultimate Fill-in-the-Blank.

And as I said, I liked the story in Ultimate Iron Man #1. At least the basics of it, but at the same time it contained everything I dislike about all the other Ultimate titles. If this wasn't a story about Iron Man, and not shoe horned into the Ultimate U, it would have made my Pull List. Card apparently has alot of untaped talent in Comic Book creation.

Shellhead

03-03-2005, 02:25 PM

I just realised I advocated the return of 'Teen Tony,' I feel somewhat dirty.

And I just realized why this first issue makes me so uneasy. By starting so early in the timeline, there is a real risk that we will get Teen Tony again.

My concern about lazy writing is this: If Millar has been consciously (and lazily) basing Ultimate Iron Man on an Orson Scott Card character, that certainly explains why Marvel recruited that specifc writer for Ultimate Iron Man. And if Card is aware of this connection, it could result in more lazy writing. Iron Man is already an interesting character, he doesn't need to be based on anybody else to be entertaining.

The Adventurer

03-03-2005, 02:37 PM

And I just realized why this first issue makes me so uneasy. By starting so early in the timeline, there is a real risk that we will get Teen Tony again.

My concern about lazy writing is this: If Millar has been consciously (and lazily) basing Ultimate Iron Man on an Orson Scott Card character, that certainly explains why Marvel recruited that specifc writer for Ultimate Iron Man. And if Card is aware of this connection, it could result in more lazy writing. Iron Man is already an interesting character, he doesn't need to be based on anybody else to be entertaining.

No no no, you are missing the point, we're not talking about Miller. As far as I know Miller only came up with the Brain Tumor bit.

Card is creating the REASON for the Brain Tumor, which by following the hypothetical progression of the story is based on Tony being a super genius from a Brain Growth defect.

This Child Super Genius with a physical ailment (burning skin) is potencialy Bean-like. Card might be taking his classic creation and giving him a new skin in Ultimate Tony.

Miller certainly would have no reason to copy Ultimate Stark after Bean.

petriacce

03-03-2005, 02:38 PM

...I try to keep up with a number of titles I generaly dislike, just so I can have something to work with to sway others AWAY from such titles.Uhm, okay; assuming you don't just flip through the book at the store but purchase it, I'll thank you for supporting a title I like even if you don't. It's very kind of you. If you do just flip through the book at the store just to keep up for reasons you mentioned above then that's just weird. It's your time but still weird.

And as I said, I liked the story in Ultimate Iron Man #1. At least the basics of it, but at the same time it contained everything I dislike about all the other Ultimate titles. If this wasn't a story about Iron Man, and not shoe horned into the Ultimate U, it would have made my Pull List. Card apparently has alot of untaped talent in Comic Book creation.I do hope you keep reading and really enjoy the story a lot at the end. You could end up being the Ultimate Fan. :cool:

The Adventurer

03-03-2005, 02:42 PM

Uhm, okay; assuming you don't just flip through the book at the store but purchase it, I'll thank you for supporting a title I like even if you don't. It's very kind of you. If you do just flip through the book at the store just to keep up for reasons you mentioned above then that's just weird. It's your time but still weird.

I just read em at the store, it takes me like 5 minutes tops to read most Marvel Comics, so it's no huge drain on my time to read one of the "Big Gun" titles on the rack everytime I'm there. It lets me stay current, and keep tabs on when a book becomes good enough again to actualy buy.

petriacce

03-03-2005, 02:57 PM

Well, I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the remaining five issues.

ChoasMAC

03-03-2005, 03:46 PM

I just wanna know what the definition of " X-TREAM" is? :confused:

RabidWolfe

03-03-2005, 05:06 PM

This Child Super Genius with a physical ailment (burning skin) is potencialy Bean-like. Card might be taking his classic creation and giving him a new skin in Ultimate Tony.

If you read a lot of OSC's work, you realize nearly all of his heroes are child geniues with problems. Ender & Bean are the two most famous, but look at Songmaster, Wyrms, The Tales of Alvin Maker. It's a joke among Card fans that he thinks adults are dumb and anyone under the age of 12 is a genius.

It's not quite true, but true enought that it gets laughs.

The Adventurer

03-03-2005, 08:30 PM

I just wanna know what the definition of " X-TREAM" is? :confused:

Over Modernification. Turning the Avengers into XXX(the movie) is a good analogy.

kingpin51

03-03-2005, 09:09 PM

I thought this was a pretty good first issue. This story is about how tony grew up so a logical first step would be to untroduce his parents first. I am a fans of cards work (despite his religious and political feelings) and i think u should judge a book by its content not by the authors beleifs.

I dont think it is "lazy" writing at all. Card knows how to write certain types of characters well. Almost every authour in history has recycled his ideas. Shakespear often did this as well as more recent writers like Terry Pratchett and Neal Gaimen.

KristyJo

03-04-2005, 07:36 AM

I have to say that I too thought of Bean when reading this, but I didn't think it was "lazy" writing. Bean was a cloning experiment, Tony has parents and if not for this virus complication, he would have been normal. Now, I don't know exactly what's going to happen and how Tony will be born if his mom is dead, but I think it was just that he was going to be crazy smart that reminded me of Bean. But this is a totally different story, just with a similiar theme. And I'm excited to see Tony in his series, growing up and being super-genius boy. I don't know if we'll even get to the teens, really, since didn't he graduate MIT at like age 11? I expected this series to be mostly about his actual childhood, but it may go further.

Neolucifer

03-04-2005, 08:12 AM

I liked it a lot . I fail to see why should it be so forbidden to see something else than a hero jumped in his suit right at the start of his origin . The heroes i enjoy are interesting weither they don a costume or not , in every circumstances . i personally see no problem about learning stuff about the hero and his family .

I suppose you hated that in the Strange mini , you didnt get to see our good doctor with magical powers right at the first issue ??

I dont agree there should be a "show the guy in costume in the first issue , even at the last panel" rule . Actually i'd probably be angry , as its most of the time forced , not natural and sloppilly rushed .
Anyway your point could only be relevant imo , if it was an ongoing , and not a mini serie .

Doom Hammer

03-04-2005, 04:37 PM

Let's ignore the fact that I liked the issue. Let's ignore the fact that the contrast between current Tony to his Dad in UIM is very interesting and maybe a bit revealing. Let's ignore the fact that I think Tony's brain/skin condition is a very cool twist Let's ignore the fact that I personally can't find anything I actively dislike about it, and have decided to buy the whole series when I anticipated buying only the first issue.

Forget all that.

If nothing else, this book made me more excited for Mark Millar's Ultimates, in knowing of Tony Stark's past.

And so what if OSC is maybe using some similarities from previous characters? If that type of character is his staple, then it's only reasonable for him to include some variation of that character in his comic. Maybe that's the kind of spin Marvel wanted for the character, and hired a writer who knows how to go about it. Maybe, even, Marvel hired him with that type of character in mind.

Also: live long, blue-painted armor dude.

CodeMonkey

03-05-2005, 01:51 PM

I don't really understand the argument of this being a great story, but it must suck because it was "shoe-horned" into the Ultimate Universe.

How is it shoe-horned exactly? It takes place about 30 years or so before the current Ultimate Universe. We've seen exactly ZERO appearances from any other character in the Ultimate Universe. And it, so far, is completely self contained. It requires no knowledge of the ultimate universe, ultimate Iron-Man, the ultimates, or anything that's going on.

Granted, this may all change when things are said and done, but this is the first issue, so take it as such.

I personally thought this was a decent issue. I like the occasional comic where you don't have to have the superhero do the obligatory fight with the supervillain. This was an actual *story* which a lot of comics are lacking these days.

I look forward to the rest of this series and how it plays out.

StoneGold

03-05-2005, 02:24 PM

How is it shoe-horned exactly? It takes place about 30 years or so before the current Ultimate Universe. We've seen exactly ZERO appearances from any other character in the Ultimate Universe. And it, so far, is completely self contained. It requires no knowledge of the ultimate universe, ultimate Iron-Man, the ultimates, or anything that's going on.

So, a story that takes place before modern events is shoe horned? What, you wanted Spider-Man to show up some 15 years before he was even born? This is the backstory to some of the Ultimate universe. Hawk-Owl was shoe horned in. This is backstory.

CodeMonkey

03-05-2005, 04:33 PM

So, a story that takes place before modern events is shoe horned? What, you wanted Spider-Man to show up some 15 years before he was even born? This is the backstory to some of the Ultimate universe. Hawk-Owl was shoe horned in. This is backstory.

Re-read my post. You're arguing the same thing as me. I'm saying that this *isn't* shoe-horned.

StoneGold

03-05-2005, 04:38 PM

Ah. Nevermind.

The Xenos

03-06-2005, 03:29 PM

I know this is an Ultimate book and this is a new take on the character, but damn if this isn't an entirely new character. His father's an arms dealer? Bio armor (whcih I admit is a damn cool idea)? Tony's born with a regenerating virus that kills his mother? What the hell? This is like having Uncle Ben not killed in Ultimate Spider-man. This is a bit too much change to the character and his orgins for me.

I also have a very bad feeling this is relecting what is going to happen to the Iron Man movie. I've heard bad things about Tony's father being an arms dealer in the movie, not Tony, and Tony not being injured by his own weapons. Funny, that smacks of liberal revisionism. Yet, Marvel picks a conservative writer (which is a nice change to see in comics) to introduce this revision in the Ultimate version of the character. Interesting.

Anyway, I like this book, but it just doesn't sound like Iron Man at all. While nowhere near as bad as Catwoman, I think of that changing the character so much makes me wonder if it's the same character of if they're just using the name to see a new one. For a good reinvention of Iron Man, I was enjoying Ellis's book which sounds like an updated origin anyway. Then again I don't know if I'll ever see another issue the way that one seems to be running insanely late.

I am interested in Mr Card's other work. While I dislike this as an Iron Man book, I like it as a cool sci fi book. I don't now if I want to keep getting it though or jsut check out Card's other stuff. Oh and as for his personal comments about homosexuality, let him. Funny, liberals are always about free speech except when conservatives open their mouths. I think too many people got angry over him working on this book for some coments in an unrelated forum. It baffles me. Anyway, while I don't care for this as an Iron Man book, I am glad Card is into comics. While I'm not conservative, I guess you could say I'm moderate or centralist or realist or something, I find it good to see someone not liberal in comics. I know I loved Chuck Dixon's work and conservative voice.

-Xenos

Brian R

03-06-2005, 03:37 PM

Private America

03-06-2005, 04:10 PM

I am interested in Mr Card's other work. While I dislike this as an Iron Man book, I like it as a cool sci fi book. I don't now if I want to keep getting it though or jsut check out Card's other stuff. Oh and as for his personal comments about homosexuality, let him. Funny, liberals are always about free speech except when conservatives open their mouths. I think too many people got angry over him working on this book for some coments in an unrelated forum. It baffles me. Anyway, while I don't care for this as an Iron Man book, I am glad Card is into comics. While I'm not conservative, I guess you could say I'm moderate or centralist or realist or something, I find it good to see someone not liberal in comics. I know I loved Chuck Dixon's work and conservative voice.

-Xenos

Couldn't agree more with your last paragraph. With a title like Ex Machina so openly advocating a pro-homosexual worldview, I find it refreshing to have a writer like Mr. Card on a book like Ultimate Iron-Man, with a different perspective (though he may not even make it an issue in this mini-series).

It was nice to see Maria have so much care and concern for the child inside her.

CodeMonkey

03-06-2005, 05:14 PM

It's *supposed* to be an entirely new character, with just some similarities to the Mainstream Universe.

I think people forget that's the point of the Ultimate Universe. It's supposed to be a re-imagining of the characters without umpteen years of history and baggage.

That's why we have a "Hippie" Thor who may or may not even be a god.
That's why we have a Captain America who's perfectly fine with killing. He's the ultimate soldier. That's what soldier's do.
That's why we have a Hulk that eats people.

Ultimate Iron-Man has finally gotten this concept down correctly. I pray others follow in this vein.

Cephus

03-06-2005, 08:43 PM

My problem with UIM so far is that it sets things up that I really don't like. I've been a long-time IM fan and one of the things that really draws me to him is that he's just a normal guy. He has no super powers. He doesn't stick to walls, he doesn't shoot laser beams, he's just a particularly smart individual who INVENTS his armor and everything else that he does.

UIM turns him into a mutant. We've got enough mutants. I want something different.

Paradox

03-07-2005, 01:01 AM

Moses is a bad, BAD BOY!!!:

I didn't feel this issues was padded, as a die-hard IM fan I thought it was really, really good. I felt the concept that is being laid down was really interesting ( I haven't read Ender's Game so I can't comment on the analogy with one of OSC's older characters). Having said that I have no problem with Tony's only appearance being him as a foetus IF he appears properly (not neccessarily in armour) in the next ish. I felt it was really well done this issue, but I want it to move on a bit more forward in the next one, say mid-teens, or just as he inherits his dad's business.
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I just realised I advocated the return of 'Teen Tony,' I feel somewhat dirty.

As well you should be! You go wash your keyboard out with soap this very minute, young man!!!!

Um, if indeed you are young...or a man. ;)

I loved it, frankly. Great SF and good dialogue. Wonderful intregue and an ending that left my mouth watering for more.

But, I'm one of those odd types that doesn't mind decompression (as long as it doesn't feel padded) or super-hero stories without action, so don't go by me...

Paradox

03-07-2005, 01:09 AM

CodeMonkey doesn't get it (and neither do I):

I don't really understand the argument of this being a great story, but it must suck because it was "shoe-horned" into the Ultimate Universe.

The comment is solely about the preconcieved notions and expectations of the individual reader. Doesn't wash for me, actually. I've long learned to just look at things on their own merits, and leave my expectations at the door (as much as is humanly possible, that is). Personally, I can't see "this was good, but it's negated because of what I wanted it to be". I can actually have more sympathy for "this stunk because it wasn't what I expected it be".

Paradox

03-07-2005, 01:11 AM

The Xenos may need this pointed out:

I know this is an Ultimate book and this is a new take on the character, but damn if this isn't an entirely new character. His father's an arms dealer?

That's not "new". In the MU, both Howard and Tony Stark were involved in the munitions business.

Will.S

03-07-2005, 01:42 AM

I finally got to pick up the book this weekend in another comic shop and I thought it was a solid read. Orson throws around different and cool early technology ideas kind of similar to Warren Ellis's Ultimate Fantastic Four science.

Howard Stark is a character I empathized with throughout the book with everything crumbling around him while he was on the verge of getting the technology right. The ending is especially somber but there's definitely something to it since Tony will have to be born.

Maria was also another interesting character since she's very intilligent herself and kind of breaks it down to the reader what will happen to her son due to the technology affecting his body. The way she was infected was pretty nast though, accidently swallowing monkey blood? Blegh!

I don't really mind that Tonly developed a higher intellect due to the virus, I'd like to think that he would have been a prodigy eventually but the virus sped things up more due to it's effects on his body. Here's hoping Howard turns it all around and gets all his stuff back from Stane and his conniving ex-wife.

Andy Kubert and Danny Miki on art are excellent as always. I think Andy really improved on his tech depictions and overall attention to detail. The bridges, water front, buildings and human characters all look terrific. I must say one of the oddest structures in the book I noticed was Howard's facility.

It's in the middle of the friggin Hudson river!

Add to that it's angles and glassy look and I'm just amazed how it was drawn to stand like that, there must be an underwater part to it like The Raft or something. I was also surprised Richard Isanove was coloring the title, I haven't seen him do anything other than covers for a while after 1602 and a bit before that project but his colors enrich the art so much more. I hope he sticks around until the end of the series.

Overall I expected something more lame from a Ultimates spin-off series but I was pleasently surprised especially when it's leading all the way up to his time in the Ultimates. If anything this book will make a great complementary series to the Ultimates books and add more depth to Tony since alot of the the Ultimates issues devoted character development to Cap, Giant-Man/Wasp, and Thor.

Typo Lad

03-07-2005, 07:11 AM

That's not "new". In the MU, both Howard and Tony Stark were involved in the munitions business.

Were they ever! I loved how Warren Ellis adressed that by saying the reason Tony is still IM is to take his mind of the fact that he's a guy who makes landmines.

west3man

03-07-2005, 07:18 AM

Sorry. Not going to read all four pages.

My take: Good issue, despite Tony's womb-seclusion. I don't need the title character to appear in each and every issue, as long as those that s/he's NOT in are 1) good and 2) with good reason.

Screwtape

03-08-2005, 08:51 AM

Right there with you, west3man. The dialogue was good, the pacing was even, as opposed to sloth-like, which seems to be the norm for Ultimate books, and there are some AWESOME ideas in there that I really want to see worked out.

Daniel Lewis

03-08-2005, 12:29 PM

Ultimate IM was great. Card is a great writer, and I think I have now have a favorite book(as well as Ultimate character). I certainly hope that OSC keeps writing comics... damn, he might actually convince me to read a Wolverine book if he ever does one.(I *hate* Logan, y'see.)

Evan Waters

03-09-2005, 10:57 PM

Couldn't agree more with your last paragraph. With a title like Ex Machina so openly advocating a pro-homosexual worldview, I find it refreshing to have a writer like Mr. Card on a book like Ultimate Iron-Man, with a different perspective (though he may not even make it an issue in this mini-series).

Hell, let's not stop there- with a title like Cap & Falcon so openly advocating a pro-black worldview, there needs to be someone writing on the other side!

Homophobia is not a legitimate political or philosophical position, no matter how many people hold it or who won the last election. It is vile bigotry.

newscott

03-10-2005, 05:59 AM

I was very much surprised by two things in this book:

1 - Card's pacing was very good. I had expected a good plot, but he managed to pace the book well, and that made it a better read.

2 - Card did a little research into the character, and including Stane into the plot made me believe that the writer will not be moving forward without looking back.

I've never been an Iron Man fan, but I picked this title up based on the author, who's work (not political/moral beliefs) I like. I think the series has great potential.

StoneGold

03-10-2005, 09:55 AM

Jack

03-10-2005, 12:39 PM

I don't understand why people really care about the political or social beliefs of creators. Card is one of my favourite authors even though I disagree with him on nearly everything.

Expressing an opinion in a book is something I have no problem with, even though I strongly doubt it will happen in this case. Now stating your opinion as fact, or try and present it as an "education", those I disagree with, but just having characters express opinions? I couldn't care less as long as the story is good.

Adam Crocker

03-10-2005, 01:03 PM

Honestly, my only problem with the book? The clumsy attempt at social commentary because Stane and Stark's soon to be ex were gobbling food. I don't know if it was Card or Kubert doing that, but it was clumsy, and a little forced. We get it, they're rich, they're evil, and they're evil because they're rich and rich because they're evil.

While I got it more that they were evil because they were avaricious and self-absorbed, and the scene with them digging into the steak like pigs was more meant to symbolize that...with a bit of social commentary on the side. (Note that Howard Stark is rich, but in this first issue he's portrayed as the likable protagonist who loses his company because his mind is on more personal matters.)

But otherwise, I agree with you about the scene. Lord was that ever hamfisted.

I don't really mind that Tonly developed a higher intellect due to the virus, I'd like to think that he would have been a prodigy eventually but the virus sped things up more due to it's effects on his body. Here's hoping Howard turns it all around and gets all his stuff back from Stane and his conniving ex-wife.

I have a feeling that rather, it will be Tony who ends up winning back the company. It seems like a logical enough place to carry the plot.

I do find it problematic though that Tony's smarts are marked down to a special virus hitting his mom while he was in the womb. It just seems an unnecessarily tacked onto the character while undermining one of Iron Man's appealing aspects, that he brought himself up to the level of other superheroes through technology. I don't see what it's supposed to add to the character.

With a title like Ex Machina so openly advocating a pro-homosexual worldview, I find it refreshing to have a writer like Mr. Card on a book like Ultimate Iron-Man, with a different perspective (though he may not even make it an issue in this mini-series).

In which case why does it matter either way that Card is on the book in relation to Ex Machina? :confused:

(Similarly why do Card's views on homosexuality matter at all to this book?)

Kirk G

03-10-2005, 01:30 PM

Well, at least the story didn't start on the Mayflower.
If it was written by Bendis in Daredevil, we might just jump back and forth in time and go back to pick up those scenes in the next issue.... :mad:

Kirk G

03-10-2005, 01:36 PM

I just hate this modern trend of super-hero comics without super-heros. LIke when Bruce Jones wrote the Hulk. Or the current Strange series. Or that lousy Silver Surfer comic last year, the one with hardly any Silver Surfer in it. I want super-hero adventures, not sluggish decompressed stories about normal people.

When was the Silver Surfer ever a super-hero book? :p

I recall the first volume changing about issue 9 or 10 and featuring super-hero guest-stars every issue in an attempt to bolster sales, but failing and the plug being pulled on it by issue 18... after asking Kirby to try to save it in the final issue. (It proved to be the last straw when he went over to DC, but that's another story.... see the Jack Kirby Collector for that tale...)

Dazzler

04-02-2005, 05:54 PM

Couldn't agree more with your last paragraph. With a title like Ex Machina so openly advocating a pro-homosexual worldview, I find it refreshing to have a writer like Mr. Card on a book like Ultimate Iron-Man, with a different perspective (though he may not even make it an issue in this mini-series).

It was nice to see Maria have so much care and concern for the child inside her.

damn, that's stupid. you people and your govenment issue code words like "pro-homosexual world view".

but at least you convinced me to pick up Ex Machina. ;)

--Dazz

Cephus

04-04-2005, 06:41 PM

but at least you convinced me to pick up Ex Machina. ;)

Ex Machina has been a hell of a lot better than Marvel books lately, I can tell you that.

EmmettHULK

04-04-2005, 06:59 PM

Hell, let's not stop there- with a title like Cap & Falcon so openly advocating a pro-black worldview, there needs to be someone writing on the other side!

Homophobia is not a legitimate political or philosophical position, no matter how many people hold it or who won the last election. It is vile bigotry.

And let's not forget that vile pro-female worldview on Wonder Woman, Birds Of Prey,Arana, and Spider-Girl...I find it refreshing when writers give us a rarely-seen glimpse into a pro-male world view... ;)