what do you think bruce will do to the secret seven over the mindwipe in IC?

[clt123456789]

i can only picture it being something that will be for real, will last for a long time and will at the least leave a permanent mark if there is enough of these second stringers to recognize after he's done with them. do any of you think they are about to turn batman against the super-heroes as well as the criminal element? that would truly add a "man without a country" feel to the him, but i doubt they would do such a major change to him with the movie around the corner? who knows eh?laters!

[The Shadow]

I think there are going to be black eyes and punched faces all by Batman.

I can't wait for the Ollie-Bats confrontation!

[JoshuaB]

Maybe he'll commandeer OMAC and pick 'em off one by one with a laser beam...I dunno, but it'll be interesting....can't wait to see it all come to a head.

[clt123456789]

not sure who all the seven were but i know for sure most likely that hal jordan, barry allen, zantanna, hawkman,black canary, and green arrow should be relatively safe. can you say its not a time to be ralph digby or the elongated man? first your wife gets whacked by another insane ex-super-hero wife then you're the only member of the secret seven jlaer who wiped batmans memories that isn't in a grave, a series of your own or a successful team series? wonder how much they will let batman do to ole ralph? laters folks!

[Forsaken_One]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I want to see Batman cut himself and Gotham off from the rest of the DCU, up to and including leaving the JLA and not even talking to Superman.

And as I've said before this will never happen, because that would hurt sales and cancel Superman/Batman, one of DC's bigger books. But that'd still be nice.

[Mia]

Who knows?

[clt123456789]

yeah i hope he maims, cripples and dismembers all seven then starts out on really getting his payback..but like i've said else where ralph digby is the only available target he can come after who isn't involved in a major successful series at present and dc editorial has recently shown a willingness to punish torture ralph for something so duck elongated man...this may hurt lots, it will last a long time and i'm sure it will be leaving a permanent mark if you live through it...lol..or bats could drop the old insane switch ala hal jordan and wipe out tens, hundreds if not thousands of super heroes before he get bored and goes back to gotham...you never know...how much you want to bet whatever bats does he gets away with it better than hal or anyone else has...bwahahahhahhahaahha!!!!!! its a good time to be a scary batman fan ain't it> laters!

[IamtheRock3]

dont think EVEN batman can bring himself to punish Ralph from something that old considering what happen..I mean dude got his wife rape and killed. Guy found out she was pregant and wife of his best freind did it

WHAT LEFT TO DO TO THE GUY!!

Atom wife went crazy and he ALL READY BROKEN

that just leave the rest of the old JLA

Him and black Canary DEFFINLY should interesting. People havent talked about that but thier kind of close. She on birds of Prey. He also kind of close with zantana

And HAL this what the like the 4th time Hal screwed him. Of coure dought that would be mention GOD FORBID if anyony questions the GREAT Hal

Dont think he will god tower of Babel he will give them an F U and probally break away from them and be a bigger loner

more like

"Oh you MF's thought it was parnoid BEFORE...you aint seen nothing let."

[clt123456789]

besides i'm sure they ain't about to evil up batman this close to the next movie in a sorta successful franchise...but i'd love to read that one where he goes up after the secret seven well armed and ready to hurt some of the m for real...it would make what deathstroke does to them in IC 4 look likea school yard fight in elementary school don't ya'll think? laters

[TitoJones]

It's already known that Supes knows about the Dr. Light, but does he know about Bruce being mindwipe?

[clt123456789]

how could he not..will this mean a return to the unfortunate and dull feud like relationship between supes and bats yu thinks?laters

[Forsaken_One]

Seriously, please, use capitalization and proper scentence structure. It makes it a lot easier to read your posts. Observe:

yeah i hope he maims, cripples and dismembers all seven then starts out on really getting his payback..but like i've said else where ralph digby is the only available target he can come after who isn't involved in a major successful series at present and dc editorial has recently shown a willingness to punish torture ralph for something so duck elongated man...this may hurt lots, it will last a long time and i'm sure it will be leaving a permanent mark if you live through it...lol..or bats could drop the old insane switch ala hal jordan and wipe out tens, hundreds if not thousands of super heroes before he get bored and goes back to gotham...you never know...how much you want to bet whatever bats does he gets away with it better than hal or anyone else has...bwahahahhahhahaahha!!!!!! its a good time to be a scary batman fan ain't it> laters!

Yeah i hope he maims, cripples and dismembers all seven, then starts out on really getting his payback. But like I've said elsewhere, Ralph Digby is the only available target he can come after who isn't involved in a major successful series at present. And DC editorial has recently shown a willingness to punish torture Ralph for something, so duck Elongated Man... this may hurt lots. It will last a long time and I'm sure it will be leaving a permanent mark if you live through it. LOL.

Or bats could drop the old "insane switch" ala Hal Jordan and wipe out tens, hundreds, if not thousands of super heroes before he get bored and goes back to gotham. You never know... How much you want to bet whatever bats does he gets away with it better than Hal or anyone else has? Bwahahahhahhahaahha!!!!!! It's a good time to be a scary Batman fan ain't it?

Laters!

See the difference? It doesn't really take that much time and it really improves the level of discussion.

As for your post itself, the fact is Batman gets away with far less than the other superheros. Batman states he doesn't trust Hal, a man who (as far as they know) murdered dozens of people and tried to rewrite time. A man who now has the power of the wrath of God. And he gets yelled at for it. In Superman/Batman's Kara Zor-el arc Batman reasonably states that perhaps Superman shouldn't easily (some might say blindly) accept this random stranger who fell from the sky with powers equal to or greater than Superman. And yet he's chided for being untrusting. In Green Arrow Batman is the only person to question why a person Superman himself witnessed atomized is suddenly back from the dead, and the rest of the JLA give him dirty looks.

The fact is the Superhero community has been waaay too trusting of late. It seems they'll accept anything as reasonable behavior. Well, anything so long as it isn't coming from Batman.

[clt123456789]

Ok, your points are true about bats not getting any slack. know why they treat him that way? they are all so scared of him they know better than to give him a reason to go off. Hence, they don't mess with him at all or try to keep bruce "under" control. Guess what the secret seven did when they mind wiped him? They major league messed with him! Guess what bats should do in return? Hurt lots of folks in tights and spandex. At the least. laters taters! ( and if i can't be gregarious and have the level of fun i'd like in your thread you got to deal with a few laters taters so get over or used to that fact, Bub!)_ :mad: :evilangry :evilsmile

[bannermanonemillion]

Start selling tickets for the Bruce/Ollie showdown while you still can!!

Ralph gets a pass because 1) he wasn't there to vote for any mindwipes and 2) he didn't even find out until after his wife was killed. EM gets some slack.

[pureclint]

It's already known that Supes knows about the Dr. Light, but does he know about Bruce being mindwipe?


No one (outside of the perpetrators and Wally) knows about that, although Bruce knows SOMETHING happened.

Superman and Bruce both knew about Doctor Light all along (even though they made Bruce forget the incedent or that he was there and involved) and Wonder WOman just found out recently.

[Cage]

Throughout the years, several books make points on how fearful or scared they are of Batman. (Green Lantern # 179?) I've always liked this point of view that the other heroes have of him even though he has no powers. I think they all should be afraid. Not just because it would be the "end of the JLA", but because Batman is the one that has prepared for these types of situations in advanced. He planed these years ago. It's in his nature. He's the one that would stay awake for weeks planning a battle between himself and the Flash, Green Lantern, Superman. (Dark Knight Returns)

[mike626]

Personally,I think Bats will not come to Ollies' aid when Slade takes revenge for that arrow in the eye.As, for the other 4 well I'm sure Bruce has made plans to deal with them. Ralph sholud be left alone in this case.It will be intresting too see how Superman will deal with Batman's mindwipe. :cool:

[Forsaken_One]

Didn't Superman already mindwipe Batman once to keep him from going all crazy-head at some point? I remember hearing about Superman saying "You can punch me if you like" and batman saying no and promptly shooting a missile at him. But I never read it myself.

[mike626]

Didn't Superman already mindwipe Batman once to keep him from going all crazy-head at some point? I remember hearing about Superman saying "You can punch me if you like" and batman saying no and promptly shooting a missile at him. But I never read it myself.It was in Batman/Superman I don't have that issue number. :(

[Forsaken_One]

Was it Batman/Superman? I've read that series and I don't remember that at all.

[TitoJones]

It was at the end of Emperor Joker.

[west3man]

...at the very least, he oughta tell'em just what hypocrites they were for condemning his version of the "Xavier Protocols," AFTER they'd already done something WORTHY of such a thing.

[Siythe]

Much as I'd love to see him kick a few of their heads in (esspecialy the high powered ones) wouldn it be cool if they used this to get rid of alter his personality positivley?

[AlanScott606]

I would like to see Bats recruit his own "league" and go up against Ollie and co. He could start by getting Wally, Dick and Kyle to join him.

Not to even mention the ramifications it would have within B.o.P. Oracle is in a bad spot when and if this ever does go down.

It probably won't go down like this but I would love to see it none the less.

[bannermanonemillion]

It's already known that Supes knows about the Dr. Light, but does he know about Bruce being mindwipe?

Uh-uh. I refuse to believe that Clark would keep quiet about that. Dr. Light was one thing, and he tried to defend his willing ignorance to Wonder Woman but with Bruce? No way can I imagine Clark knowing what the League did to him and not saying anything. If he did, the friendship is over. Period. The one guy that Bruce could say was a true hero betraying him by not telling? I don't buy it.

[bannermanonemillion]

I would like to see Bats recruit his own "league" and go up against Ollie and co. He could start by getting Wally, Dick and Kyle to join him.

Not to even mention the ramifications it would have within B.o.P. Oracle is in a bad spot when and if this ever does go down.

It probably won't go down like this but I would love to see it none the less.

Dinah should get on her hands and knees and apologize to Bruce for raking him over the coals for his attitude.

[Jkid099]

Didn't Superman already mindwipe Batman once to keep him from going all crazy-head at some point? I remember hearing about Superman saying "You can punch me if you like" and batman saying no and promptly shooting a missile at him. But I never read it myself.

That was Emperor Joker ... and somewhat different. Batman's memories of being killed and resurrected over and over again were transferred to Superman as a means of saving Bruce.

[Master Darque]

I don't really see Bats committing much in the way of violence towards the Leaguers ...at least not going out and SEEKING it . However , I could see him paying a visit to Ollie in the dead of night .
I also see Bats cutting himself off from the League more ....if his conversation with Dick in the latest Outsiders is any indication of what's been going thru his head lately .

[founder81]

When did Wonder Woman find out about the mind wipe?

[pureclint]

in a Recent Issue of Superman by Rucka, She found out about the Dr Light Mindwhipe and Bruce and Supes both admitted they knew about it all along.


No one yet knows about the Batman wipe.

[OverMaster]

That was Emperor Joker ... and somewhat different. Batman's memories of being killed and resurrected over and over again were transferred to Superman as a means of saving Bruce.

The incident with Clark absorbing Bruce's memories happened in Emperor Joker, but Bruce found about it in Joker: Last Laugh (the Action Comics tie-in, IIRC).

[tricksterpup]

I don't really see Bats committing much in the way of violence towards the Leaguers ...at least not going out and SEEKING it . However , I could see him paying a visit to Ollie in the dead of night .
I also see Bats cutting himself off from the League more ....if his conversation with Dick in the latest Outsiders is any indication of what's been going thru his head lately .
I agree a 100% with this, but didn't vote against all of this?? It was Carter Hall that was pushing for the mindwipe and Zantanna was the one who performed it.
I picture if anything him joining the Outsiders and leaving the league like he did years ago that originally formed the first Outsiders.
I think Bruce is to honorable of a man to attack his friends for something like this. Yes the man is crazy but not a pyscho-path.

[Master Darque]

You're right ...I did mean to mention that Ollie was originally against the wipe . But then Bats wouldn't necessarily know that til AFTER he tore Ollie a new one .
But I doubt it'd be like when he left the League before to form the Outsiders ....since for one , Dick is running that name now and two , Bruce is slowly realizing he can trust no one ....

[bannermanonemillion]

Gee, if Ollie was so against it, then why didn't the League wipe him, Barry, and anyone else that had a problem with it? I mean, in IC Ollie was really defending what the League did and I don't remember hearing a boatload of guilt over it. And it's not like they came to blows over whether or not to mindwipe Bruce.

Now, if I'm wrong please let me know.

[Forsaken_One]

Yeah, I loved that. A big debate/vote (well it should have been big) and then fight over whether or not to do what they did to Dr. Light, then Batman shows up and they all go "Crap, we're screwed if he knows this, let's mindwipe him" without any debate at all apparently.

[IamtheRock3]

not only that but it was unaminous

Thats what got me

[bannermanonemillion]

not only that but it was unaminous

Thats what got me

Exactly. Anyone else annoyed that Meltzer called Ollie the conscience of the DCU? "Cuz he knows all the secrets." No, a conscience reminds you of what you're doing is wrong and doesn't let up. In IC I think Batman was the League's conscience.....which they silenced when they mindwiped him.

And another thing.....should Dinah have any right to tell Bruce to lighten up in a recent issue of BOP seeing as how she stood there and let Zatanna zap Bruce's mind?

[AlanScott606]

And another thing.....should Dinah have any right to tell Bruce to lighten up in a recent issue of BOP seeing as how she stood there and let Zatanna zap Bruce's mind?

I don't think she had any right to meself. I think it may come back to haunt her.

And it would be great to see exactly how Barbara would react to all of this.

[bannermanonemillion]

I don't think she had any right to meself. I think it may come back to haunt her.

And it would be great to see exactly how Barbara would react to all of this.

I like how Batman is keeping his mouth shut while the Secret Seven keep whining about his attitude and looping enough rope for a nice big noose that Bruce is gonna hang them all with.

[Master Darque]

And it's not like they came to blows over whether or not to mindwipe Bruce.
Sorry ...you were wrong . Ollie WAS against it . That's why he and Hawkman fought . And it wouldn't have made sense to wipe 3 or 4 Leaguers minds ....just Bats , who was the most horribly opposed to it . If they had to wipe more Leaguers minds , then yeah , it would have truly been over for the League THEN .

And as to whether Dinah had a right to tell Bats to lighten up .... I don't see why not . Doubtful that his mind being wiped is on her mind everytime she's fed up with his grim and gritty act .

[AlanScott606]

Sorry ...you were wrong . Ollie WAS against it . That's why he and Hawkman fought . And it wouldn't have made sense to wipe 3 or 4 Leaguers minds ....just Bats , who was the most horribly opposed to it . If they had to wipe more Leaguers minds , then yeah , it would have truly been over for the League THEN .

And as to whether Dinah had a right to tell Bats to lighten up .... I don't see why not . Doubtful that his mind being wiped is on her mind everytime she's fed up with his grim and gritty act .

No, it wouldn't be on her mind all the time but the events from IC are still fresh. I for one think she would approach Batman with a little more caution in the near future.

[Forsaken_One]

Sorry ...you were wrong . Ollie WAS against it . That's why he and Hawkman fought . And it wouldn't have made sense to wipe 3 or 4 Leaguers minds ....just Bats , who was the most horribly opposed to it . If they had to wipe more Leaguers minds , then yeah , it would have truly been over for the League THEN .
No, they came to blows over warping Dr. Light's mind. Read it again, the decision to mindwipe Batman was unanimous.

[Donar]

They had a small discussion, but the decision of mindwiping Batman was unanimous.
The first time (with Dr.Light) was problematic, after that they just got used to do it...

[tricksterpup]

They had a small discussion, but the decision of mindwiping Batman was unanimous.
The first time (with Dr.Light) was problematic, after that they just got used to do it...
In for a Penny, In for a Pound.

[Forsaken_One]

They had a small discussion, but the decision of mindwiping Batman was unanimous.
The first time (with Dr.Light) was problematic, after that they just got used to do it...
Just to be clear, what happened (from what I understand) was this. The secret seven had been mindwiping enemies of the JLA who discovered their identity for years before Dr. Light came along. When Dr. Light came in they realized that mindwiping him so he didn't remember sneaking into the sattelite and attacking thier wives wouldn't solve the problem, as he'd just think of it again (why they didn't do this and increase security is beyond me). They're solution, as silly as it sounds, was to basically lobotomize him such that he was much less of a threat. In this they succeeded, with him becoming a joke who couldn't even beat the Teen Titans. While this process on Dr. Light was going on Batman arrived and they stopped him. The decided to mind wipe Batman, not alter his mind like they did with Dr. Light. This was apparently the last straw and after avoiding responsibility for their actions one last time they never again mindwiped anyone (outside of the Flash title, which is a whole nother story).

The downside seems to be that A) this leads to all sorts of trust issues and issues of taking responsibility, B) this makes them all look more than a bit hypocritical and, well, dickish for b****ing at Batman for his protocols in the Tower of Babel JLA arc, and C) this leads to all sorts of trust issues dealing with Batman, who had trust issues looong before this happened. Knowledge of this, unconcious or otherwise, might be a huge factor in Batman's past, current, and future actions, and not for the better.

But they didn't mindwipe anyone after Batman, they didn't mind alter anyone that we know of save Dr. Light (and the Top in the pages of the Flash, but that isn't dealing with the whole of the Secret Seven), and they were mindwiping people apparently years before the Dr. Light incident came up.

[bannermanonemillion]

Just to be clear, what happened (from what I understand) was this. The secret seven had been mindwiping enemies of the JLA who discovered their identity for years before Dr. Light came along. When Dr. Light came in they realized that mindwiping him so he didn't remember sneaking into the sattelite and attacking thier wives wouldn't solve the problem, as he'd just think of it again (why they didn't do this and increase security is beyond me). They're solution, as silly as it sounds, was to basically lobotomize him such that he was much less of a threat. In this they succeeded, with him becoming a joke who couldn't even beat the Teen Titans. While this process on Dr. Light was going on Batman arrived and they stopped him. The decided to mind wipe Batman, not alter his mind like they did with Dr. Light. This was apparently the last straw and after avoiding responsibility for their actions one last time they never again mindwiped anyone (outside of the Flash title, which is a whole nother story).

The downside seems to be that A) this leads to all sorts of trust issues and issues of taking responsibility, B) this makes them all look more than a bit hypocritical and, well, dickish for b****ing at Batman for his protocols in the Tower of Babel JLA arc, and C) this leads to all sorts of trust issues dealing with Batman, who had trust issues looong before this happened. Knowledge of this, unconcious or otherwise, might be a huge factor in Batman's past, current, and future actions, and not for the better.

But they didn't mindwipe anyone after Batman, they didn't mind alter anyone that we know of save Dr. Light (and the Top in the pages of the Flash, but that isn't dealing with the whole of the Secret Seven), and they were mindwiping people apparently years before the Dr. Light incident came up.

OK, if that's true then what's the event, the last straw that made the Leaguers decide to start altering the memories of their enemies if it wasn't Dr. Light that started it? And if that's the case then they should've been so used to it that when Light came along, they shouldn't have debated it at all, there should've been no arguement in the first place if they'd been doing this for years, right?

Help me out, please.

[Forsaken_One]

OK, if that's true then what's the event, the last straw that made the Leaguers decide to start altering the memories of their enemies if it wasn't Dr. Light that started it? And if that's the case then they should've been so used to it that when Light came along, they shouldn't have debated it at all, there should've been no arguement in the first place if they'd been doing this for years, right?

Help me out, please.
Because previously they were altering memories, as in "Damn, I can't remember what the hell I did last tuesday." This didn't change the fundemental nature of the individual they were wiping; if Deadshot discovered who they were and has his memory wiped he'd still have been a mercenary who hired a lot of whores and had a deathwish and was really good with guns. The difference between what they did with all the villians previously (mind wiping) and what they did with Dr. Light (mind warping) is that they changed Dr. Lights personality such that he wouldn't be as much of a threat. They didn't simply make it so that he couldn't remember going to the sattelite, they made it so he was so stupid and incompitant he couldn't even concieve of sneaking into the sattelite. The debate was whether or not go go beyond what they'd done to the other villians and actively change his very sense of self for their own gain.

[blue13]

not sure who all the seven were but i know for sure most likely that hal jordan, barry allen, zantanna, hawkman,black canary, and green arrow should be relatively safe. can you say its not a time to be ralph digby or the elongated man? first your wife gets whacked by another insane ex-super-hero wife then you're the only member of the secret seven jlaer who wiped batmans memories that isn't in a grave, a series of your own or a successful team series? wonder how much they will let batman do to ole ralph? laters folks!

no.

i know everyone speculates, but some speculation just makes no sense to me.

why would he go after ralph? out of all the people you mentioned, bruce probably has the most respect for ralph.

ralph isn't even one of the major people there that night. he was devastated at what happened to his wife.

dont think EVEN batman can bring himself to punish Ralph from something that old considering what happen..I mean dude got his wife rape and killed. Guy found out she was pregant and wife of his best freind did it


i agree.

[AlanScott606]

no.

i know everyone speculates, but some speculation just makes no sense to me.

why would he go after ralph? out of all the people you mentioned, bruce probably has the most respect for ralph.

ralph isn't even one of the major people there that night. he was devastated at what happened to his wife.



i agree.

I would have to agree also, I just can't see Batman going after Ralph. He wasn't a major player in the mindwipe scenario. And you know that Batman will realize that.

[bannermanonemillion]

no.

i know everyone speculates, but some speculation just makes no sense to me.

why would he go after ralph? out of all the people you mentioned, bruce probably has the most respect for ralph.

ralph isn't even one of the major people there that night. he was devastated at what happened to his wife.





Agreed. Ralph wasn't one of the seven that signed off on doing that to Light or to Bats.

[clt123456789]

no.

i know everyone speculates, but some speculation just makes no sense to me.

why would he go after ralph? out of all the people you mentioned, bruce probably has the most respect for ralph.

ralph isn't even one of the major people there that night. he was devastated at what happened to his wife.



i agree.


did anyone read the same issue of IC #3 i did? i think that is the one where wally lies to superman, then forces Ollie to explain why and more details about the mindwiping. firstly, Ollie tells Wally that they had been removing little things like when someone learned who a super-hero really was from villians memories for a long time. then he says they just went further with light then they had been going or something. and the reason i say that ralph may be the target of batman's revenge is because as i say in the post this is qouted from: hal is rebirth..big event, barry is dead...hawkman is a major player in the Jsa, Zantanna is Morrison's, black canary is a major part of Bop another popular series, etc..therefore due to strictly finicial/business reasons..ie if they do let bats wipe someone's clock or hurt thme badly it won't be a cash cow..that is why i theorize that Ralph may be the victime...do you people know anything about the inside workings of a comic book company or not..sorry if most of this seems assanine, but take close that comicbook you've had your head stuck in for too long and think like a person who lives in the real world then reply to my theories...yes i'd hate to see bats do anything bad to ralph too... but i don't think he will due to fact that alot of folks will be coming to batman comics in june or whenever expecting to find the same or similar person under the cowl. but we may all be surprised right? i'd love to see them do something like have bats go nuts and go become the new uber-villain of the dcu but we all know this will never happen i hope...laters folks...

[clt123456789]

Agreed. Ralph wasn't one of the seven that signed off on doing that to Light or to Bats.

why did he met with all the secret ones then and who says lets go get light? and why did light know to hire to deathstroke to protect hime anyway? i'm missing #6, but i think that its implied or stated that ralph knows. am i wrong and if so who are the secret ones? its ollie, dinah, ray palmer, hawkman, zantana, barry and hal oh....never mind then...forgive me for the previous post..i just counted them ...uh...laters..got egg to go wash off me face..lol! :eek:

[clt123456789]

OK, if that's true then what's the event, the last straw that made the Leaguers decide to start altering the memories of their enemies if it wasn't Dr. Light that started it? And if that's the case then they should've been so used to it that when Light came along, they shouldn't have debated it at all, there should've been no arguement in the first place if they'd been doing this for years, right?

Help me out, please.


before he gets to talking about anything else...before he tells wally later on that bats was there ...he says they were doing it anytime someone learned one of the heroes reall names..the story where the villians switch places with heroes really happens guys...its the cover of an early one hundreds issue of JLA(the 64 or 65 series that is) and the scenes where the villan asks something about i think clark kent is not from the original story. so what they are saying is all those stories where the villians could and surely would have discovered the heroes real identies the reason why they didn't wasn't cause it was really a more innocent time. all those were small mindwipes...the mindwipe/personality change of light was just taking it to the next level and for those of you who are looking desparately for the issue where light rapes sue digby you can stop looking. it didn't happen til it was retcon into things by meltzer for the IC series ok? so if yu've ever read a story from any time period where you stopped and wondered after reading it, why didn't that villian just locate a wally or take pictures like it show them doing in IC that is why they don't know or go on a killing spree of the heroes family/loved ones/friends as it stands post IC. got it..good..there may be a quiz laters.
laters friends...! :evilsmile

[Azrael52]

I can't wait for the Ollie-Bats confrontation!
Hell Yeah!

[Azrael52]

Also, I want to see at least a one shot if not small story arc in Superman/Batman dealing with IC and Batman finding out about his mindwipe. That'd be awesome, b/c despite any shouting matches, these two have to coexist; it's a monthly series (one of the best).

[bannermanonemillion]

before he gets to talking about anything else...before he tells wally later on that bats was there ...he says they were doing it anytime someone learned one of the heroes reall names..the story where the villians switch places with heroes really happens guys...its the cover of an early one hundreds issue of JLA(the 64 or 65 series that is) and the scenes where the villan asks something about i think clark kent is not from the original story. so what they are saying is all those stories where the villians could and surely would have discovered the heroes real identies the reason why they didn't wasn't cause it was really a more innocent time. all those were small mindwipes...the mindwipe/personality change of light was just taking it to the next level and for those of you who are looking desparately for the issue where light rapes sue digby you can stop looking. it didn't happen til it was retcon into things by meltzer for the IC series ok? so if yu've ever read a story from any time period where you stopped and wondered after reading it, why didn't that villian just locate a wally or take pictures like it show them doing in IC that is why they don't know or go on a killing spree of the heroes family/loved ones/friends as it stands post IC. got it..good..there may be a quiz laters.
laters friends...! :evilsmile

OK, then, that makes a little more sense.

I was just curious as to the first villain that made the League decide to start the little memory deletions (you can only say "mindwipe" so many times until it gets tiresome) in the first place.

I wonder, if this whole thing really does cause the League to split like they feared in IC. And have any of the Satellite League started having second thoughts about what they did, like maybe Black Canary or Hawkman (re-re-re-reincarnation can make you take another glance at life)? I know Wonder Woman will take Bruce's side and I'm pretty sure that Clark will admit he never should've turned a blind eye to what was being done. So that's the Big Three versus........?

[bannermanonemillion]

Also, I want to see at least a one shot if not small story arc in Superman/Batman dealing with IC and Batman finding out about his mindwipe. That'd be awesome, b/c despite any shouting matches, these two have to coexist; it's a monthly series (one of the best).

Clark: Bruce, I didn't know what they'd done to you. I saw what they'd done to Light and......I just didn't want to know. I understood why but, as long as I could say beyond a shadow of a doubt that I didn't see what else they'd done, that......

Bruce: You'd be beyond blame. The word for that is 'cowardice' Clark. If you'd kept looking for only a few more minutes, you'd know that I walked in on them and they decided to remove my memories. My. Memories. They tampered with my mind. It opens up a lot of questions for me, Clark. For years, I've had a serious distrust of all things magical. Before then, I didn't like it, afterwards, I look back and realize that after that moment, I started to hate magic and seriously distrust anyone that used it. I never enjoyed the idea of being surrounded by superhumans. Never. But for the first few years I could tolerate it. After Light, I realize that's when I started to distrust anyone with powers. Why? I couldn't past the idea, the fear that my teammates, my superpowered teammates might turn on me and I'd have no defense. Sure enough down through the years, I've seen the best of them, starting with you, lose control, be manipulated, mind-controlled, etc. Agamemnon was the last straw. That's when I began devising methods to stop you if I had to. What galls me is that all these years you people have been critiquing me on my attitude and lack of trust and that I should be more...open and understanding. No, Clark. From now on, none of you have the right to tell me how to feel.

[Guts/Batman]

IC? anywho, this topic intrigues me.....can someone get me a list of titles for this story arc?

thanks in advance

[Adam West]

IC? anywho, this topic intrigues me.....can someone get me a list of titles for this story arc?

thanks in advance


It's a single shot miniseries.

[bannermanonemillion]

The next JLA arc after Garney and Busiek is gonna deal directly with what happened in IC. It's Batman vs. the Satellite League and he has J'onn (who didn't know about the mindwipes) on his side.

*rubs hands together evilly*

It's gonna be goooooooooooooooooooo. :evilsmile

[Ned Leeds]

The next JLA arc after Garney and Busiek is gonna deal directly with what happened in IC. It's Batman vs. the Satellite League and he has J'onn (who didn't know about the mindwipes) on his side.

*rubs hands together evilly*

It's gonna be goooooooooooooooooooo. :evilsmile

Hell yeah. DC is kicking serious butt this year. I am so excited to pick up the next issues of all my DC titles. All around great writing and great stories.

[VietN]

I thought Identity Crisis was a lot of fun... at first. Then it went downhill, FAST. I felt completely dissatisfied by the resolution to the arc. I hate it when the murderer's revelation comes out of nowhere.

---

Seems kinda childish suggesting that Batman would physically beat up the people who mind wiped him. Seems beneath him. I mean these heroes already take beatings during their day jobs.

I think he'd go at them morally... and that'd be about it.

[bannermanonemillion]

I thought Identity Crisis was a lot of fun... at first. Then it went downhill, FAST. I felt completely dissatisfied by the resolution to the arc. I hate it when the murderer's revelation comes out of nowhere.

---

Seems kinda childish suggesting that Batman would physically beat up the people who mind wiped him. Seems beneath him. I mean these heroes already take beatings during their day jobs.

I think he'd go at them morally... and that'd be about it.

It'll be enough for him to force them to own up to what they've done and face the consequences. That's the thing that scared them into mindwiping him in the first place.

Now if (HUGE motherlovin' IF) it comes down to Batman FIGHTING the Satellite League....pass the popcorn and place your bets. :evilsmile

[boy wonder]

I think he'd go at them morally... and that'd be about it.
Ooh, yeah. You're absolutely right. I can just imagine Batman tearing them each appart at the seams.

That's definately more his style.

[EZMOHR]

Ok, this is how I think it will go down. Batman will basically get the whole Satellite League to The Watchtower somehow. (GA, Hal, Hawkman, Zatanna, Black Canary, Ray, and maybe in some weird way Barry Allen). I also think somehow Ralph will be up there too. (Isn't weird how IC brought him back to the forefront, but he has been in almost nothing since then.)

Then of course up there will also be Wally, J'Onn, Superman, Wonder Woman, Plastic Man, and Aquaman (I still go back to a theory I had a while back on a throw away line in IC, about Ollie saying that they thought Arthur could never find out about what happened....and the same thing with J'onn.) I also think John Stewart will be up there.

Then we will see lines form and sides be taken (ala IC). I think Satellite Seven will be on one side of the debate. They will get help from Wally (who will stand up for everything Barry ever did), John (Who thinks Hal is the greatest thing since sliced bread), Plastic Man ( who never goes to bat for Bruce, even though for some reason Bruce always helps him) and eve J'onn (Who I think at first will be on Bruces side, but then will not. I also think Aquaman will be with the Sat. Seven at first, but I still think Sub-Diego has something to do with the looming Crisis, thus he will be with Bruce eventually. That leaves Bruce with Diana on his cornor, because she does not trust man anyway, and this further makes her case. So the big vote at the end will be with Clark.....and I think for once Superman will do something we've never seen him do before...cower down in a situation. I think he will back off and not lift a finger to help Bruce take out the Sat. Seven and their allies. He will fly away and leave Bruce to his own devices.

So what do I think will be next....well in the IC picture that showed the Sat League, all the characters have had some sort of part in this DC Crisis stuff of the last year except two...Aquaman, who I think will finally get to do something in the League, and the second is........RED TORNADO. I think that maybe somehow Bruce may have Tornado with him (perhaps reprogrammed) and he will take out the league with Red Tornado. Or will he. I can see him using the mental telepathy of either J'onn or Arthur to do what he is doing to the league and walk out the Watchtower, never to return saying
"See what it like to not have control of your mind. If I ever see any of you again it will be for real. You may see me as a man....but remember this, a MAN just beat the greatest superheroes in the world. Imagine what I could do if I really wanted to hurt you."

This will lead to other things happening in the DC Universe..like Barbra and Huntress taking sides with Black Canary, and cutting Bats off.

So in the end, I think DC is doing what they want with the release of Batman Begins and the direction of the DC U, and the impending releases of the Superman and Wonder Woman movies.....letting all these characters revolve in their own places for the next couple of years to maximize their profits. At the end of the day, this Crisis is the make Bats, Robin, and Dick be in their own Universe, Supes to be in his own, and Diana to be in her own.

I can't wait till a couple years from now when they all have to come back together to save the world.

[sikkbones]

your not actually suggesting that there becomes a batverse, a supesverse, and wonderverse?

what next? pocket universes?

[EZMOHR]

your not actually suggesting that there becomes a batverse, a supesverse, and wonderverse?

what next? pocket universes?


NO, all the DCU. Just the big three stay and do there own things...so the fanbase can come into the big three's movies knowing who the players are going to be.

Thats my theory on what IC started, and Crisis will be doing. They are trying to make the big three fight their own rogues...not a collection of all rogues in the DCU.

[sikkbones]

so the death of everyone else?

[AlanScott606]

I don't think there will be a big conflict. I think this will just serve to push Bats further away from everyone. Pushing him closer to the edge.

What I would like to see happen is Bruce draft up his own league and confront them. I can see Wally joining with Bruce if Nightwing does and I can see Kyle going with Bruce's side if Wally were to.

But again, I doubt this will happen either.

[EZMOHR]

so the death of everyone else?


No, just that basically all the other heroes are going to have to figure it out on their own...not rely on Bats, Diana, and Supes to come in and save them. All the other heroes are going to have to do what Maxwell Lord wants "The events of man to be left in the hands of man." And with exceptions of Superman (Alien), Wonder Woman (Greek heroine/Godess) and Batman (I hate this term because he is the most human of heroes but "Bat-God") the other heroes in the last couple of years have looked to the big three to solve everything. I think the idea of this Crisis is to basically make all heroes accountable for fighting the good fight...not just holding their position until Clark, Bruce, or Diana can get there.

[EZMOHR]

I don't think there will be a big conflict. I think this will just serve to push Bats further away from everyone. Pushing him closer to the edge.

What I would like to see happen is Bruce draft up his own league and confront them. I can see Wally joining with Bruce if Nightwing does and I can see Kyle going with Bruce's side if Wally were to.

But again, I doubt this will happen either.


See I don't see Bats froming his own league. I mean the whole reason for any conflict to happen because of the mind-wipes is because a "league" mind wiped Bruce. I think Bruce will never allow (well at least until the next huge event) himself to be affiliated with a group after the events of Crisis. I think Crisis is going down so Bruce can get back to basics ie...hanging out with Dick and Tim and fighting crime in Gotham...not the Anti-Matter Universe. It is to end this stupid "Bat-God" Myth that has gotten fan boys in a tizzy. It is to set straight the DC Universe the way it was envisioned. A bunch of heroes who fight crime in their "own" cities like GA in Star City, or Flash in Keystone, or SUpes in Metropilis. It is to get to the orginal pulp roots of the DC Universe were crossovers weren't the only selling points of the DC Universe, but the fact that each one of these characters on their own (Or groups of friends) can fight their own cool rogues. Not Batman taking down Despero. Not Supes vs. The Penguin. Its basically the heroes of the DCU against their rogues. I think that sums up events perfectly. It was laid out be Geoff Johns in the the issue of the Flash were Bats tells Wally to keep his rogues out of GOtham (Cap. Bommerang killing Jack Drake), because Bats kept his out of Keystone. This was also the issue that cemented in my mind that Wally and Bruce will never be on the same side in any impending DC "war" that will go down, because Wally showed nothing but contempt for Batman.

[AlanScott606]

See I don't see Bats froming his own league. I mean the whole reason for any conflict to happen because of the mind-wipes is because a "league" mind wiped Bruce. I think Bruce will never allow (well at least until the next huge event) himself to be affiliated with a group after the events of Crisis. I think Crisis is going down so Bruce can get back to basics ie...hanging out with Dick and Tim and fighting crime in Gotham...not the Anti-Matter Universe. It is to end this stupid "Bat-God" Myth that has gotten fan boys in a tizzy. It is to set straight the DC Universe the way it was envisioned. A bunch of heroes who fight crime in their "own" cities like GA in Star City, or Flash in Keystone, or SUpes in Metropilis. It is to get to the orginal pulp roots of the DC Universe were crossovers weren't the only selling points of the DC Universe, but the fact that each one of these characters on their own (Or groups of friends) can fight their own cool rogues. Not Batman taking down Despero. Not Supes vs. The Penguin. Its basically the heroes of the DCU against their rogues. I think that sums up events perfectly. It was laid out be Geoff Johns in the the issue of the Flash were Bats tells Wally to keep his rogues out of GOtham (Cap. Bommerang killing Jack Drake), because Bats kept his out of Keystone. This was also the issue that cemented in my mind that Wally and Bruce will never be on the same side in any impending DC "war" that will go down, because Wally showed nothing but contempt for Batman.

I agree on most parts but I think Dick would be enough to make Wally side with Bats. But like you said this won't happen.

[sikkbones]

See I don't see Bats froming his own league. I mean the whole reason for any conflict to happen because of the mind-wipes is because a "league" mind wiped Bruce. I think Bruce will never allow (well at least until the next huge event) himself to be affiliated with a group after the events of Crisis. I think Crisis is going down so Bruce can get back to basics ie...hanging out with Dick and Tim and fighting crime in Gotham...not the Anti-Matter Universe. It is to end this stupid "Bat-God" Myth that has gotten fan boys in a tizzy. It is to set straight the DC Universe the way it was envisioned. A bunch of heroes who fight crime in their "own" cities like GA in Star City, or Flash in Keystone, or SUpes in Metropilis. It is to get to the orginal pulp roots of the DC Universe were crossovers weren't the only selling points of the DC Universe, but the fact that each one of these characters on their own (Or groups of friends) can fight their own cool rogues. Not Batman taking down Despero. Not Supes vs. The Penguin. Its basically the heroes of the DCU against their rogues. I think that sums up events perfectly. It was laid out be Geoff Johns in the the issue of the Flash were Bats tells Wally to keep his rogues out of GOtham (Cap. Bommerang killing Jack Drake), because Bats kept his out of Keystone. This was also the issue that cemented in my mind that Wally and Bruce will never be on the same side in any impending DC "war" that will go down, because Wally showed nothing but contempt for Batman.


you guys did see amazo taken down by bats and nightwing right?

[EZMOHR]

I agree on most parts but I think Dick would be enough to make Wally side with Bats. But like you said this won't happen.


I would say Wally would side with Bruce because of Nightwing except for two things.
1). Wally worshipping the ground Barry walks on, thus siding with the choices Barry makes.

2). In the last year, DC trying to retcon the fact that Dick and Wally are best friends. It seems like in the last year, the Dick and Wally friendship has been but on the back-burner, and that Dick and Roy Harper (Arsenal) have been the two that were best friends forever. I think this is DC trying to say that Wally and Bruce will not be friends during a crisis.

[EZMOHR]

you guys did see amazo taken down by bats and nightwing right?


Yes, but to be fair (God I've always wanted to say this) that was Post Crisis, Pre-CRISIS. I think you are seeing the last gasps of the Bat-God being played down now. In my theroy. And also, Bats said that was a stripped down Amazo.

[AlanScott606]

I would say Wally would side with Bruce because of Nightwing except for two things.
1). Wally worshipping the ground Barry walks on, thus siding with the choices Barry makes.

2). In the last year, DC trying to retcon the fact that Dick and Wally are best friends. It seems like in the last year, the Dick and Wally friendship has been but on the back-burner, and that Dick and Roy Harper (Arsenal) have been the two that were best friends forever. I think this is DC trying to say that Wally and Bruce will not be friends during a crisis.

I agree with on part 2 about DC seemingly retconing Wally and Dicks friendship somewhat. But I doubt that Barry would play much of a factor in his desicions because Barry will not be present. Now if Barry were there that would be a whole new ball game.

But I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time :D

[EZMOHR]

I agree with on part 2 about DC seemingly retconing Wally and Dicks friendship somewhat. But I doubt that Barry would play much of a factor in his desicions because Barry will not be present. Now if Barry were there that would be a whole new ball game.

But I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time :D


Me too. But I think the relationship of Barry and Wally weighs a lot on Wally's decisions. With Wally being a mind-wiper (making all forget he was the Flash) and Barry being one of the Satellite Seven, I can see Wally siding with the legacy of Barry and saying the mind-wipes were necessary. Again I am problem wrong on this.

[sikkbones]

wasn't flashes whole contuinity changed somehow?

[AlanScott606]

Me too. But I think the relationship of Barry and Wally weighs a lot on Wally's decisions. With Wally being a mind-wiper (making all forget he was the Flash) and Barry being one of the Satellite Seven, I can see Wally siding with the legacy of Barry and saying the mind-wipes were necessary. Again I am problem wrong on this.

Who know? I do have a feeling that it's going to be a wild year for the DCU all the from the big 3 down to the smallest of the small.

[EZMOHR]

Who know? I do have a feeling that it's going to be a wild year for the DCU all the from the big 3 down to the smallest of the small.


The funny thing is,with the exception of THE Flash, i did not start reading anything DC until 3 years ago. Now I can't get enough. Thanx DC. Here's hoping this year brings...

Batman vs. The Satellite League
Team Arrow vs. Deathstroke
Batman vs. Villians United
Superman vs. Zod once an for all
Batman vs. Jason Todd
Booster Gold vs. Maxwell Lord
Tim Drake vs. Capt. Boomerang II
Murmur vs. Heatwave
The "Bad Rogues" vs. The Good Rogues
and Aquaman getting some cred.

[sikkbones]

^how about power girls origin?

[Guts/Batman]

my question is this....they kicked him out then mind wiped him?

Thats wrong.

[Beta Ray Bill]

and Aquaman getting some cred.
Yes please.