Naruto Manga/Anime Discussion Fun Thread!

[apple pro]

here's a question for y'all

since gaara has been stripped of his demon by akatsuki now, is he still powerful? i mean naruto is a strong ninja but he's only a powerful ninja when he taps chakra from the 9 tails... right?

[Hiromi]

Don't know, hasn't been shown one way or the other.

[Nick Soapdish]

Heck, I just watched 146-150 of the anime and my brain melted. (No, I'm not the least bit against filler episodes, why?)

Naruto without the Kyuubi would still be a damn good ninja. He'd probably have been better at the beginning of the manga, but wouldn't have improved as much and would be weaker by now. The Kyuubi's chakra was boosting his own, but affecting his control. He was able to beat Kiba without the benefit of any of the Kyuubi's chakra and with Orochimaru's seal affecting his own chakra control.

By a similar token, I think Gaara would also be tough without Shukaku. He's the child of the Kazekage so he's got good genes. His sibs don't have the Shukaku and they aren't slouches. I expect that he would be a lot weaker, but still powerful.

[GreyLancaster]

A few comments...

1) I just finished watching 1-150 and my brain is partially melted. Thanks.
2) I haven't read the Manga so this was a spoiler...
3) This was also DAMN funny.

I thought you only had dial-up, how did you get all those episodes? If you don't mind me asking

[Melchior]

I kept expecting the last scene we see with Gaara at Suna to end with him going: "Hmmm.... Iron sand? Sure."

[Azangel]

I thought you only had dial-up, how did you get all those episodes? If you don't mind me asking

Borrowed from a friend. :)

[G_Man]

I kept expecting the last scene we see with Gaara at Suna to end with him going: "Hmmm.... Iron sand? Sure."

But for that wouldn't he need his father to be descended from the Sandaime Kazekage, in order for Gaara to possess the right blood for that tech too?

Remember, it was said only the Sandaime Kazekage had the ability to turn his chakra into electromagnetic energy to manipulate the sand, wasn't specified if it was a bloodline limit, a clan thing, or just some trick he can up with though.

[Melchior]

But for that wouldn't he need his father to be descended from the Sandaime Kazekage, in order for Gaara to possess the right blood for that tech too?

Remember, it was said only the Sandaime Kazekage had the ability to turn his chakra into electromagnetic energy to manipulate the sand, wasn't specified if it was a bloodline limit, a clan thing, or just some trick he can up with though.

Actually, I've seen nothing that indicates that the Suna Kages are not the same family line. Gaara and his father both are/were Kages, and the old lady and her two brothers (one dead, who I assumed was their 3rd) were the strongest back in their day and candidates at the least, and they seem to be literally a grand-aunt and grand-uncle to the Sand trio. Besides, it actually makes a bit of sense for the Kages in a village to be somewhat closely related due to the ninja-genetics angle. Except in places like the Mist Village, which seems to have large amounts of inter-village fighting that could wipe out entire bloodlines.

Besides, Gaara strikes me as the type of guy who would try to stick with what's familiar, and would make it work anyway. Though I would have really loved to see Gaara and Naruto taking Sasori down and Gaara adding some extra "decorations" to his gourd.

[G_Man]

Besides, Gaara strikes me as the type of guy who would try to stick with what's familiar, and would make it work anyway. Though I would have really loved to see Gaara and Naruto taking Sasori down and Gaara adding some extra "decorations" to his gourd.

Yeah, Gaara was like, the worst possible opponent Sasori could have to fight, which was why Deidara went after him. The Sand Shield would render most of his puppets' poisoned weapons useless, and while Gaara may not have been able to control the Iron Sand since it's technically grains of grounded up metal and not true sand, why take the risk on a maybe?

[Sheldon]

290 is out!!!!!!
Just awesome seeing Kabuto and Oro again. What a cool way to end the chapter too....

[Hiromi]

Awesome, I wasn't expecting a chapter this week at all, and I got this lovely good one. Though having to wait two weeks to see the fight is going to suck.

[apple pro]

Question:

in vol 1 or 2, didn't they mention Naruto failed his genin test 2 or 3 times before he passed this one? if so, he should be years older than everyone else right? can somebody confirm if this is true?

[G_Man]

Question:

in vol 1 or 2, didn't they mention Naruto failed his genin test 2 or 3 times before he passed this one? if so, he should be years older than everyone else right? can somebody confirm if this is true?

Yes, it was mentioned he'd failed the test 3 times already, yet for some reason he's at least the same age as everyone else (at best he's a few months older, probably not even half a year).

There's the theory that he just started earlier than the other rookie 9. That would make some sense for his protection as there has to be a village rule against villagers/angry ninjas attacking a fellow shinobi or shinobi-in-training.

However, if that were the case then he'd have been at the academy a year earlier as well. He should have had the same class as Neji, Tenten, and Lee.

You'd think someone who was an even worse student than him (Naruto may have screwed up regular Bunshins and sometimes Henge, but Lee can't do any jutsu at all), or someone who was an even bigger jerk than Sasuke would stand out in Naruto's memory (Sasuke snubs everyone and the girls soon over him, but Neji makes it a point to insult people and tell them they'll never get better; that's like bathing in red paint and then slapping a bull in the face for Naruto). Even if Naruto's memory sucked that bad, Lee, Tenten, and Neji would definitely remember someone like Naruto.

We can only assume that Naruto either had a different class (which wouldn't be true based on what we've seen) or that it was simply a continuity error on Kishimoto's part (the most likely answer).

[Cowlander]

Or the test isnt limited to graduating class blah blah blah. It might be similar to the driving test. You need a certain requirement to take it, then you if you fail you can return as many times as possible, He might have failed all 3 tests in a short span of a couple to a few months.

[apple pro]

it's not that important

if you can accept he has a 9 tails fox demon inside him you can accept he had some weird paperwork on his ninja school years. i transfered college in my sophmore year, and i am still unsure of how my credits were distributed!


______


just read 290 —

"i'll give you the pleasure of telling you who is stronger, you or sasuke"

now that's a cliffhanger!

[Tami]

I have a question, and if it's been asked and answered before I apoligize. This thread has become so long I didn't think that I could go through it all.

My question, what is the relationship between Kakashi and Sasuke, and what is the relationship between Kakashi's sharingan and the sharingan possessed by Sasuke and other members of the Ucha clan? I haven't found a clear answer to this in the story that I have read so far. So if anyone knows the answer -Thanks.

[Professor H]

well i'm up to 290 but at the moment i don't really care for the charactors any more... i mean i cried for haku and i was on the ede of my seat for the big sasuke naruto battle but now i just start thinking whats the point?

i did like seeing the older vertions of everybody though

[Corey Dreher]

I have a question, and if it's been asked and answered before I apoligize. This thread has become so long I didn't think that I could go through it all.

My question, what is the relationship between Kakashi and Sasuke, and what is the relationship between Kakashi's sharingan and the sharingan possessed by Sasuke and other members of the Ucha clan? I haven't found a clear answer to this in the story that I have read so far. So if anyone knows the answer -Thanks.

Well tell me first, which chapter are you on?


I don't want to spoil you, but here is a small spoiler that is kinda obvious, but still, I'll put the spoiler tag for those type of people.

Hatake Kakashi and Uchia Sasuke are not related at all. They each have a shraigan, but two different levels, which you'll learn about later.

[Tami]

If the answer will appear at some point, then I can be patient and wait for that volume. So far I have mostly read Naruto as it is published in Shonen Jump (U.S. edition). Thanks anyway.

[Azangel]

Ok, I have an odder eye-related question for all of you experts. (heh...)

Does Shino's clan have eyes or not?

It's been bugging (oh god, bad pun) the hell out of me for a while now.

(Oh and there's no particular reason for the Weasel-boy av, other than boredom...and somebody else is using Gaara.)

[Hiromi]

Ok, I have an odder eye-related question for all of you experts. (heh...)

Does Shino's clan have eyes or not?

It's been bugging (oh god, bad pun) the hell out of me for a while now.

(Oh and there's no particular reason for the Weasel-boy av, other than boredom...and somebody else is using Gaara.)
As far as I know yeah, they just wear the dark mysterious FFX Auron type glasses to make them look dark and mysterious ^^

If the answer will appear at some point, then I can be patient and wait for that volume. So far I have mostly read Naruto as it is published in Shonen Jump (U.S. edition). Thanks anyway.

I can't quite remember where Shounen Jump is, but I don't think its to the point where Kakashi's Sharingan is explained, I'll put it in spoiler tags:

As a kid one of Kakashi's teamates was an Uchiha, his name was Obito, during one mission right after he'd(Kakashi) been promoted to Jounen Kakashi had his eye slashed out, and Obito(whose Sharingans had just manifested) was crushed under a pile of rubble. Before he died he told the third team member(a medical ninja) to surgically implant his uncrushed eye into Kakashi.

Sharingans evolve over time depending on circumstances, they start as the two tomoe spiral which Sauske had when his first manifested, Kakashi's Sharingan is a mature three tomoe Sharingan, which Sauske eventually develops later on himself.

[apple pro]

i did like seeing the older vertions of everybody though

i think that is the reason why I was pleasantly surprised after "naruto vs sasuke round 1".

a lot of the characters were such annoying tykes that i wanted them to grow up. naruto is waaay less annoying now and sakura is actually likeable.


still a good series and deserves to be in the top 3 shonen category... IMO

[Pikachu]

Well "Naruto" is gaining fans on both sides of the sea.

I think we have the excellent quallity of the Anime to thank for this. I mean, the story telling is great and all, but two years ago "Naruto" wasn't even breaking the top 30 titles for Shonen in Japan. Slowly, awareness was spread by the outstanding Anime.

One year ago I was sitting in a Japan entertainment, video, DVD, book store, called Tsutaya. One day "Naruto" is an underpublished title due to sales costs to the next day, bam, every 7/11 and book store across the land was carrying it by the truck loads!

Now "Naruto" consistantly sells in the top ten titles. Although, in Japan it fluctuates a lot more, having more competition and all. In the U.S. not everybody reads comics, and so "Naruto" fits the younger fan boy nitch better, making it a sure thing stateside. Although, I was a little shocked at how fast it took off here vs. Japan. It seemed to have an uphill battle in it's home country, but either way, I'm glad this title is around. It is excellent on all accounts. Well, that's the Pika history lesson for today folks!

Pika!

[Pikachu]

For those who want updates but don't have time to read full scanlations. Or if you are like me, and read only the Japanese language version of "Naruto" but want to double check if you translation chops are on que, you can find great plot summaries at http://www.leafninja.com/

There are also clan charts, character bios, time jump and flashback guides, etc. which would help clear up some of the repeated and more redundant questions that some people have. It's the best "Naruto" guide I've found next to actually reading the book religiously, but even then, they cover everything in the manga and stuff unique to the Anime.

Pika!

[apple pro]

holy crap... i assumed naruto was a big hit in japan from day 1. it is published in the "weekly jump" right?

[Pikachu]

Yeah, but remember, being published in the Jump comics line doesn't necessarily mean you will be a hit manga property. The main reason for this is that "Jump comics," under Shuiesha, isn't the only comic book publisher. In fact, In Japan there is a lot more competition, including in-the-house seriers.

You have "Shonen-Jump" and then there is "Shonen-weekly," which is an entirely different publishing company (not to be confused with "Weekly-Jump"). Next you have "Young-Jump" comics which is Shuiesha's line of adult series of Seinen manga. Next you have all the Shojo and Yayoi based books competing, some published under Jump, others not. To top that off you have "Jump Allstars" and "Ultra Jump" to compete with other in-house titles. Then you have your slew of Kodomo (child) manga magazines, etc.

At any given time there are 20 different magazines starring you in the face. All of them competing for top 50 slots on the sales chart. Most of them falling in nicely in the top 100s or 1000s slots. "Naruto" is published in "Shonen Jump." In America, "Shonen Jump Magazine" has no competition when it comes to manga. It is the only magazine brininging the titles over seas in an anthology form (called maga-zashi). Yet oddly, here in the states, the titles are from different eras, because they are selling what's hip in America now. You'd be hard luck to find older titles like "Dragon Ball" in a contemporary "Shonen-Jump" over seas.

You are right though that "Shonen Jump" outsells the other magazines, but the titles inside don't necessarily become hits just because they are shocased in Jump. Not with all the volume being pushed, aprox. 8,000 various genres and titles a week. And we haven't even touched the adult line of the various hentai magazines that sell quite well.

History lesson number two, the publishers name doesn't matter. Having a good product consisting of the highest callibur storytelling and art does. "Naruto" gladly has this, and that's why I read it!

Pika!

[Corey Dreher]

I have a theory, and for people who aren't caught up, I'll put it in spoiler tags.

Remember how Sai said he had a brother? Well what if it was Uchiha Shisui, which means he would have a personal vendetta against them. He did say that Sasuke was crappy or whatever, so could it be possible that Sai is the last Shragian user? Also, how did Obito get the Mygnkeyo (sp?)? Itachi said you must kill your best friend to get it... but as far as we know, Obito never did... or did he?

[Deskad]

Sai is an Uchiha, the resemblance too great. Possibly he is the third[or now fourth] Mangekyo user. He is probably Shisui's brother.

[Azangel]

Actually, one way of looking at it is this: Kakashi's and Obito's argument over the mission vs saving Rin caused Obito's death, therefore Kakashi was able to develop the Mangekyou.

Or...he killed somebody else ?

I'll shut up now.



I hadn't thought of that btw. You're evil. ;)

[Corey Dreher]

Sai is an Uchiha, the resemblance too great. Possibly he is the third[or now fourth] Mangekyo user. He is probably Shisui's brother.


Or they could do it as a lead off...

[Corey Dreher]

Actually, one way of looking at it is this: Kakashi's and Obito's argument over the mission vs saving Rin caused Obito's death, therefore Kakashi was able to develop the Mangekyou.

Or...he killed somebody else ?

I'll shut up now.



I hadn't thought of that btw. You're evil. ;)


Now that I think about it, I'm not sure that killing your best friend is the right answer.. I think it was something to make Sasuke blood rise because he knows that Sasuke wants to kill Itachi, but he can't get any where near his level until he gets his Mangekyou. Maybe Itachi told that to Sasuke so he will try to kill Naruto, but instead he won't kill him, but leave him weak so that Itachi can take him up. Maybe I'm thinking about this to much, but for some reason I feel that Itachi is smarter then Sasuke thinks. He knows that Sasuke will stop at nothing to kill him. So if Itachi tells Sasuke to kill Naruto, so not only will you get to the highest level, but you'll take out your main threat to your goal (Itachi)

I'm not that evil.. but I'll leave you with this..

Now I won't take credit for this one, but me and Sarcy-son was talking about it, and a quesiton came up. Why is it so important that they have "Nine Tailed Fox" or "One-Tailed Demon"? Sarcy said that it could be because the creator did this to show how powerful they are. There are 9 Bijuus. What if the one Naruto is carrying is the strongest and Gaara's is the weakest? For what is shown, Gaara is pretty damn powerful by himself, the Bijuu added to his strength though. But atlast, it is just a thought.

[Azangel]

I'll let someone else deal with this one in full, but Itachi never told Sasuke to kill Naruto, and I don't *think* they knew Naruto when Itachi told Sasuke he had to kill his best friend...

I could be wrong though.

[Azangel]

And yes I caught pretty much up with all of you guys.

Making me do (questionably) illegal things.

For shame.

STILL please refrain from linking to Scanlation or download sites. Thanks guys.

This has been a friendly reminder, brought to you by the numbers 3, 8, and 9, and the letter N.

[DonC]

I'm reading the thread, Az. And there isn't anything you can do about it. Neener, neener. :p

[Hiromi]

I'll let someone else deal with this one in full, but Itachi never told Sasuke to kill Naruto, and I don't *think* they knew Naruto when Itachi told Sasuke he had to kill his best friend...

I could be wrong though.

Not directly no

He told Sasuke to get eyes like his then face him, he told him to get the eyes he'd need to kill his best friend, his best friend ended up being Naruto.

So there you go, he didn't outright say "kill Naruto" but still said enough to get pinned for it if he were on trial.

[Jared_Humpherys]

I'm not that evil.. but I'll leave you with this..

Now I won't take credit for this one, but me and Sarcy-son was talking about it, and a quesiton came up. Why is it so important that they have "Nine Tailed Fox" or "One-Tailed Demon"? Sarcy said that it could be because the creator did this to show how powerful they are. There are 9 Bijuus. What if the one Naruto is carrying is the strongest and Gaara's is the weakest? For what is shown, Gaara is pretty damn powerful by himself, the Bijuu added to his strength though. But atlast, it is just a thought.

It has been out-and-out said that the kyuubi was the strongest of the bijuu. However, Naruto has only unlocked a few tails that we know of(likely over two, due to what Jirachi said, and the seal).

Naruto without a full tail was also able to beat Gaara. But bijuu also have different abilities depending on what type they are. We've only seen 3 jinchurriki so far, though, and we don't know what the bijuu inside the third looks like when fully awakened.

[Cowlander]

It has been out-and-out said that the kyuubi was the strongest of the bijuu. However, Naruto has only unlocked a few tails that we know of(likely over two, due to what Jirachi said, and the seal).

Naruto without a full tail was also able to beat Gaara. But bijuu also have different abilities depending on what type they are. We've only seen 3 jinchurriki so far, though, and we don't know what the bijuu inside the third looks like when fully awakened.
3 did I miss one. Whose the other one. Outside of the belief its Kabuto or something.

[Jared_Humpherys]

3 did I miss one. Whose the other one. Outside of the belief its Kabuto or something.

Kisame. Here's why:

Fact: All the bijuu seen so far are tailed creatures from Japanese mythology. For example, the Shukaku is a demon from the tale of the Tanooki and a Priest trapped in a teakettle(and the nine tails of the Kyūbi is a reference as well to the myth that when foxes reach the age of 100, they first obtain a tail, and with each hundred years they gain a new tail until finally at an age of 1000 years when they gain their ninth and final tail, attaining immortality as well as great magical powers).

Kisame's name means "Demon Shark." His sword is named Samehada. Samehada, according to Japanese legend, is the fish partner of a three-tailed demon shark named Isonade(note the three tails part). Kisame says that Samehada only obeys him(as in the legend).

Also, the Atasuki have nine members(after Orochimaru left), and there are nine tailed bijuu. That means one for each current member. Neji remarked that the Kisame double at 30% power was equal in chakra to Kyuubi Naruto.

In short, Kisame's name, his sword's name and behavior(in relation to a legend), his appearance, level of chakra, and the dealings of Atasuki very strongly imply that Kisame is a Jinchuuriki containing the bijuu Isonade.

[Corey Dreher]

Kisame. Here's why:

Fact: All the bijuu seen so far are tailed creatures from Japanese mythology. For example, the Shukaku is a demon from the tale of the Tanooki and a Priest trapped in a teakettle(and the nine tails of the Kyūbi is a reference as well to the myth that when foxes reach the age of 100, they first obtain a tail, and with each hundred years they gain a new tail until finally at an age of 1000 years when they gain their ninth and final tail, attaining immortality as well as great magical powers).

Kisame's name means "Demon Shark." His sword is named Samehada. Samehada, according to Japanese legend, is the fish partner of a three-tailed demon shark named Isonade(note the three tails part). Kisame says that Samehada only obeys him(as in the legend).

Also, the Atasuki have nine members(after Orochimaru left), and there are nine tailed bijuu. That means one for each current member. Neji remarked that the Kisame double at 30% power was equal in chakra to Kyuubi Naruto.

In short, Kisame's name, his sword's name and behavior(in relation to a legend), his appearance, level of chakra, and the dealings of Atasuki very strongly imply that Kisame is a Jinchuuriki containing the bijuu Isonade.



......... DAYUM. Well, I never thought about it like that.. but I think you might be onto sometihng. Damn, where did you get all of this information from?

[Jared_Humpherys]

......... DAYUM. Well, I never thought about it like that.. but I think you might be onto sometihng. Damn, where did you get all of this information from?

I read a lot.

Also, consider it this way: What explanation has the least amount of contradictions?

Naruto has one of the highest natural chakra levels in the history of Konoha to begin with. Kakashi says outright in the chapter he activates his new sharingan that Naruto has more chakra than him. In the Naruto/Neji fight, however, Neji did not marvel at Naruto's chakra until Naruto went Kyuubi. Against a 30% Kisame, Neji said he hadn't seen that lvl of chakra since fighting kyuubi Naruto. Now, if Kisame DOESN'T have a bijuu, that means that Kisame naturally has chakra over three times higher than KYUUBI Naruto. To be frank, that's impossible. Also, Kisame NOT having the bijuu is a contradiction to the precedent the author has set: that each of the tailed beasts is from mythology. Having Samehada and the name of demon shark with strong ties to mythology WITHOUT giving him a bijuu blatantly ignores this.

The evidence support Kisame having a bijuu is, in my mind, definitive and overwhelming.

[Corey Dreher]

Do you have any links to these legends? I would love to read them, or are they from a book??

[Jared_Humpherys]

Do you have any links to these legends? I would love to read them, or are they from a book??

A book I know of that has some of these:

Handbook of Japanese Mythology (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1576074676/ref=pd_sbs_b_2/103-9930737-3153450?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=283155).

on the teakettle story:

Story of Bumbuku Chagama or The Magic Tea Kettle
A priest at the Morinji Buddhist temple in Tatebayashi, Kotszke was very fond of the tea ceremony and he often looked for beautiful utensils. He polished an old tea kettle he had found at a second hand shop and put it aside. One day as he was admiring the beautifully shaped kettle he fell asleep. Suddenly the tea kettle sprouted a badger head, tail and legs and began to move around. The priest's pupils next door rushed in when they heard a noise and were astonished to see the badger/tea kettle, but when they woke the priest the kettle resumed its former shape. He did not believe what they told him and that evening he decided to make tea with the tea kettle. The kettle got hotter and hotter as the water heated over the brazier and the kettle quickly turned into a badger and jumped away. When they caught up with the kettle it once again resumed its ordinary shape. Thinking that the kettle must be bewitched, the priest decided to get rid of it. He offered to sell it to a tinker (a junkman who fixes items to resell) for a very cheap price. The tinker asked why he would want to sell such a nice kettle cheaply. The priest answered that he had other kettles. Taking the kettle home the tinker believed he had made an excellent deal. That night the tinker was woken by a voice calling him. He looked up to see a kettle with a badger head, tail and feet. The badger/kettle told him that he was not an ordinary kettle, but a badger who could transform himself into a kettle and his name was Bumbuku (Good Luck). He said he was willing to be of service to the man and that the priest had not understood his value and has subjected him to pain. Bumbuku said if he were treated with respect and fed rice cakes he would, in return, perform acrobatic feats and dances. So the tinker built an outdoor theatre and advertised performances of "Bumbuku, The Magic Teakettle of Good Luck, and His Extraordinary Tricks". The most popular trick was when Bumbuku walked across a tight rope, carrying a parasol and a fan. The act became very popular and at the end of twenty days the tinker became rich. He was concerned about overworking Bumbuku and had enough money to be comfortable for the rest of his life. After talking with Bumbuku he took an offering and the kettle back to the priest. He told the priest what had happened and asked if Bumbuku could retire to the temple, be fed rice cakes and not be put over a fire. The priest agreed and put him in an honored place in the temple's treasure house, where he remains to this day.

Wood carving on the legend of the nine-tailed fox:

http://www.artoftheprint.com/jpegimages/kunisada2_thelegendoftheninetailedfox.jpg

(note: also of interest is that the nine-tailed fox often appeared as a beautiful women. This is likely why Naruto's first jutsu is the "Sexy no jutsu.")

As for Isonade, this is all that I know of on the web. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isonade)(unless you want to use babelfish)

[Corey Dreher]

Yeah, you got me interested now, bablefish is fairly good with translations...

[Jared_Humpherys]

Yeah, you got me interested now, bablefish is fairly good with translations...

The info isn't very easy to find online. Your best and next cheapest option is to check out a used book store(sometimes your local library will also have what you're looking for).

[Corey Dreher]

The info isn't very easy to find online. Your best and next cheapest option is to check out a used book store(sometimes your local library will also have what you're looking for).


Yeah, I wished that it was. But unlike Greek, Japanese Mythology is less heard of then Greek and Egyptian.

[Melchior]

I read a lot.

Also, consider it this way: What explanation has the least amount of contradictions?

Naruto has one of the highest natural chakra levels in the history of Konoha to begin with. Kakashi says outright in the chapter he activates his new sharingan that Naruto has more chakra than him. In the Naruto/Neji fight, however, Neji did not marvel at Naruto's chakra until Naruto went Kyuubi. Against a 30% Kisame, Neji said he hadn't seen that lvl of chakra since fighting kyuubi Naruto. Now, if Kisame DOESN'T have a bijuu, that means that Kisame naturally has chakra over three times higher than KYUUBI Naruto. To be frank, that's impossible. Also, Kisame NOT having the bijuu is a contradiction to the precedent the author has set: that each of the tailed beasts is from mythology. Having Samehada and the name of demon shark with strong ties to mythology WITHOUT giving him a bijuu blatantly ignores this.

The evidence support Kisame having a bijuu is, in my mind, definitive and overwhelming.

Dear Jared Humpherys,

As someone who has worked with and around books for some 6 years, your first line makes me do two things. Laugh, and want to give you a high-five. :D

As for Kisame and his chakra level: his 30% was somewhere near a 12-13 year-old Kyuubi Naruto level. As been noted before, this was a pretty low-level display of the Kyuubi chakra as well, though little has matched his Haku performance. I, personally, think that a full grown ninja who uses a chakra-drinking sword should have high levels of chakra in order to not be useless when using the sword, and that most of the Akatsuki are probably between high-jounin to kage-level in ability anyway. So, Kisame has a decent reason to have that much strength.

The major reason against Kisame having a bijuu is the following: the Akatsuki are hunting down and sealing the bijuu into their huge monster-thing. Allying with one seems to be pretty stupid, even for guys who would fight Gaara in a desert. Furthermore, the process they use seems pretty deadly, though that might depend on the seal used on the person and bijuu.

There are additional reasons to support Kisame having a bijuu. One is appearance. Kisame has a definite animal-like appearance, far greater than any character I can think of save Orochimaru (and I'm sure he's screwed his body up something fierce), and the other bijuu. On the other hand, Gaara has the trademarked tanuki eyes and the gourd (no clue on the other trade-marked features), and Naruto has the fox whiskers and more when he really starts pulling the chakra. If Kisame has had the bijuu from birth, then it's had significantly more time to work on his appearance than the others. If the bijuu can be removed without killing the host, that could explain why the Akatsuki already have some of the demons sealed (if this is true, well, Orochimaru might be one of the others). Also, the demon could be behind Kisame's decision to kill or attempt to kill the daimyo that resulted in him being kicked out of the Mist. The demons seem to be considered weapons of mass destruction, so there is political reasons to make an uber-ninja with one (like Gaara).

All in all, yeah, your explanation makes the most sense I've seen with dealing with plot and all. Thanks!

[Jared_Humpherys]

Dear Jared Humpherys,

As someone who has worked with and around books for some 6 years, your first line makes me do two things. Laugh, and want to give you a high-five. :D

As for Kisame and his chakra level: his 30% was somewhere near a 12-13 year-old Kyuubi Naruto level. As been noted before, this was a pretty low-level display of the Kyuubi chakra as well, though little has matched his Haku performance. I, personally, think that a full grown ninja who uses a chakra-drinking sword should have high levels of chakra in order to not be useless when using the sword, and that most of the Akatsuki are probably between high-jounin to kage-level in ability anyway. So, Kisame has a decent reason to have that much strength.

The major reason against Kisame having a bijuu is the following: the Akatsuki are hunting down and sealing the bijuu into their huge monster-thing. Allying with one seems to be pretty stupid, even for guys who would fight Gaara in a desert. Furthermore, the process they use seems pretty deadly, though that might depend on the seal used on the person and bijuu.

There are additional reasons to support Kisame having a bijuu. One is appearance. Kisame has a definite animal-like appearance, far greater than any character I can think of save Orochimaru (and I'm sure he's screwed his body up something fierce), and the other bijuu. On the other hand, Gaara has the trademarked tanuki eyes and the gourd (no clue on the other trade-marked features), and Naruto has the fox whiskers and more when he really starts pulling the chakra. If Kisame has had the bijuu from birth, then it's had significantly more time to work on his appearance than the others. If the bijuu can be removed without killing the host, that could explain why the Akatsuki already have some of the demons sealed (if this is true, well, Orochimaru might be one of the others). Also, the demon could be behind Kisame's decision to kill or attempt to kill the daimyo that resulted in him being kicked out of the Mist. The demons seem to be considered weapons of mass destruction, so there is political reasons to make an uber-ninja with one (like Gaara).

All in all, yeah, your explanation makes the most sense I've seen with dealing with plot and all. Thanks!

*Returns high five*

Good post, Melchior. However, the monster thing may not be what you think it is. Perhaps it's not meant to store the bijuu permanently. Keep in mind, the bijuu were meant to be used as weapons as conquest, and the leader said "We'll soon have all the bijuu...and everything else." Perhaps the Atasuki want to get the bijuu so that they can store it in themselves and conquer the nations. Kisame may not have had the bijuu from birth, but rather killed the person who did via the monster-machine, which then gave him the bijuu. His appearance could be because he has fully accepted his bijuu(Naruto changes appearance the more tails he gets, and Gaara turns into a full-fledged Shukaku when he lets it out). The eyes on the monster-thing could represent the bijuu that have been captured and re-distrubted. Also remember that we haven't seen all the members yet. The others could have bijuu in them as well, and the reason we haven't seen them is because their appearance would give it away.

Of course, this is all conjecture, and not hard evidence like the earlier stuff. Time will tell:).

[Jared_Humpherys]

One other quick bit of conjecture out of left field:

A way to see if my theory about the purpose of Atasuki holds own(and further confirmation of Kisame and the biju) would be to watch Deidara when he next shows up. My hypothesis is that he'll show some new sand or ground-based powers when next he appears. Since he captured the Shukaku, if my ideas on Atasuki are correct, he'll be the one receiving it. It fits his powerset and attitude well(sculpting sand, not to mention the fact that sand is very ephemeral in nature, always shifting). Also, since he's lost an arm, he'll need some sort of supplimentary abilitity to make up for his lack of seals. Sand powers would be just the trick.

Again, this is just a crazy idea of mine. No real evidence for it at all:p

[apple pro]

you guys are like history detectives but gor manga

[G_Man]

I read a lot.

Also, consider it this way: What explanation has the least amount of contradictions?

Naruto has one of the highest natural chakra levels in the history of Konoha to begin with. Kakashi says outright in the chapter he activates his new sharingan that Naruto has more chakra than him. In the Naruto/Neji fight, however, Neji did not marvel at Naruto's chakra until Naruto went Kyuubi. Against a 30% Kisame, Neji said he hadn't seen that lvl of chakra since fighting kyuubi Naruto. Now, if Kisame DOESN'T have a bijuu, that means that Kisame naturally has chakra over three times higher than KYUUBI Naruto. To be frank, that's impossible. Also, Kisame NOT having the bijuu is a contradiction to the precedent the author has set: that each of the tailed beasts is from mythology. Having Samehada and the name of demon shark with strong ties to mythology WITHOUT giving him a bijuu blatantly ignores this.

The evidence support Kisame having a bijuu is, in my mind, definitive and overwhelming.

You're not the only one to come to this conclusion. There's a fanfic called "Blood in the Water" where the author/ess had the idea that a huge chunk of Kisame's strength came from the fact that he'd already captured his assigned jinchuuriki and put the tailed beast's power in his sword.

If you are right, then that must be the case, cuz' if Kisame became a jinchuuriki before joining Akatsuki, he'd have to be the biggest moron on the planet to be working with guys who are killing people like him.

It'd also explain how the Kisame imposter was able to perform a water jutsu at the Kage level of power with only 30% of his power.

[black_lotuskf]

I'm a HUGE Naruto fan!!! I've only seen up to episode 18: A tool called the shinobi, though, and want to see more. Who's seen Naruto: Saving the Ice Princess? Its a really good movie!

[Hiromi]

Eh, the movie was alright, though I'm looking forward to the second one being released.

[black_lotuskf]

whats the second movie about?

[Cowlander]

One other quick bit of conjecture out of left field:

A way to see if my theory about the purpose of Atasuki holds own(and further confirmation of Kisame and the biju) would be to watch Deidara when he next shows up. My hypothesis is that he'll show some new sand or ground-based powers when next he appears. Since he captured the Shukaku, if my ideas on Atasuki are correct, he'll be the one receiving it. It fits his powerset and attitude well(sculpting sand, not to mention the fact that sand is very ephemeral in nature, always shifting). Also, since he's lost an arm, he'll need some sort of supplimentary abilitity to make up for his lack of seals. Sand powers would be just the trick.

Again, this is just a crazy idea of mine. No real evidence for it at all:p
Thats a real nice theory. I had no idea about the Mythological links with Kisame. Tho I'd heard of it with the other ones.

I always just assumed he was a serious case of a advanced bloodline. In the same way Orochi always had the snake look going for him even as a kid. Since really only thing he has is teeth eyes and skin tone. So it could go either way. But I definitely think youre right. It fits exactly how Kishimotos layed the series out. Between Gaara, the relationship between the Sannin etc.

[Jared_Humpherys]

Thats a real nice theory. I had no idea about the Mythological links with Kisame. Tho I'd heard of it with the other ones.

I always just assumed he was a serious case of a advanced bloodline. In the same way Orochi always had the snake look going for him even as a kid. Since really only thing he has is teeth eyes and skin tone. So it could go either way. But I definitely think youre right. It fits exactly how Kishimotos layed the series out. Between Gaara, the relationship between the Sannin etc.

Thank ye.:)

One quick thing, though:

Orochimaru's snake-thing isn't a bloodline. Actually, all three of the sannin are drawn from the Japanese tale: "The Tale of the Gallant Jiraya." In there, Jiraya is a warrior who knows toad magic, Tsunade knows slug magic, and Orochimaru, the villain, knows snake magic(also of note: in the story, Tsunade is married to Jiraya). Orochimaru's nake-like jutsu are all forbidden and/or hidden jutsu, but aren't bloodline-related(if that were the case, he'd loose them when he body-switched). The Tsunade/Jiraya/Orochimaru thing is just more of the author tying his work to Japanese literature/mythology.

[G_Man]

Actually, all three of the sannin are drawn from the Japanese tale: "The Tale of the Gallant Jiraya." In there, Jiraya is a warrior who knows toad magic, Tsunade knows slug magic, and Orochimaru, the villain, knows snake magic(also of note: in the story, Tsunade is married to Jiraya).

Somewhere in Hidden Leaf, the Godaime just woke up from her nap drenched in a cold sweat...:D

Orochimaru's nake-like jutsu are all forbidden and/or hidden jutsu, but aren't bloodline-related(if that were the case, he'd loose them when he body-switched).

Yeah, I've looked it up on Wikipedia before, and Orochimaru's stretching trick is called something that translates to "Soft-body skill" or something like that.

[The Real Nemo]

Orochimaru's nake-like jutsu are all forbidden and/or hidden jutsu, but aren't bloodline-related(if that were the case, he'd loose them when he body-switched).
Do we know for sure that Orochimaru loses bloodline jutsus after he body-switches? He does want to have *every* jutsu in existence after all, and it doesn't seem like he'd go through all the trouble of collecting people with powerful bloodlines like Sasuke and Kimimaro if he's just going to lose the jutsus when he has to switch again...

[G_Man]

Do we know for sure that Orochimaru loses bloodline jutsus after he body-switches? He does want to have *every* jutsu in existence after all, and it doesn't seem like he'd go through all the trouble of collecting people with powerful bloodlines like Sasuke and Kimimaro if he's just going to lose the jutsus when he has to switch again...

His strecthing definitely isn't a bloodline limit, it's a listed skill with a name and everything (probably a vastly superior version of the trick used by that Sound spy who Kankuro killed in the Chuunin Exam prelims).

It's never been expressly stated as such that he can't take bloodline skills with him, but seeing as how bloodline limits are genetic/physical mutations and not a matter of the soul, I don't see how he could tranfer them into a new body unless that body was prepped with soime sort of gene-splicing experiment (not that I wouldn't put that past Orochiamru mind you, but then he wouldn't need Sasuke, just some of Sasuke's blood).

Kimimaro had what Orochimaru regarded as the strongest of all bloodline limits. He healed so fast that he could rip out his own spine as a weapon and regrow a new one instantly (and his flesh would close over the resulting wounds instantly). Someone like that could probably live for a VERY long time if it weren't for his disease, not to mention he'd be hard to kill. That's probably why Orochimaru originally wanted that body, so he could live long enough to learn most jutsus the ordinary way.*

When Kimimaro became sick, he decided he'd learn jutsu the faster way by getting a Sharingan-capable Uchiha for a body.

*Incidentally, this had to be one of the biggest oversights he'd ever made. If Kimimaro was sick, why not have him have sex with every capable female in the Sound village in hopes of producing offspring? Even if he decided against that bloodline limit later or the disease was revealed to be a genetic thing (unlikely cuz' then the Kaguyas wouldn't have been so powerful a clan), I can think of worse things than having a squadron of Kaguya clan members at your beck and call, even if they do become ill once they hit a certain age. :rolleyes:

[apple pro]

*Incidentally, this had to be one of the biggest oversights he'd ever made. If Kimimaro was sick, why not have him have sex with every capable female in the Sound village in hopes of producing offspring? Even if he decided against that bloodline limit later or the disease was revealed to be a genetic thing (unlikely cuz' then the Kaguyas wouldn't have been so powerful a clan), I can think of worse things than having a squadron of Kaguya clan members at your beck and call, even if they do become ill once they hit a certain age. :rolleyes:


naruto is a shonen jump title... and it's a ninja comic. i dont think these authors are supposed to be writing war and peace.

i think more is expected of a deathnote type comic.

[Melchior]

Actually.... "Deathnote" is in Shonen Jump. Bewildered the bejeezus out of me when I found that bit out.

Anyway, I could have sworn (maybe just a wonky translation) that Kabuto said that it was a pity that they couldn't recreate Kimimaro since they didn't have his clan's secret medical records. Of course, I think that was to recreate from a normal human, not from a blood relative, but it implied to me that there was probably some additional medical techniques performed on the children that they had no clue about.

[The Real Nemo]

His strecthing definitely isn't a bloodline limit, it's a listed skill with a name and everything (probably a vastly superior version of the trick used by that Sound spy who Kankuro killed in the Chuunin Exam prelims).
I never said that it was, I just always assumed Orochimaru had a means of keeping acquiring and keeping bloodline jutsus since his intention is to possess every one of them...

[G_Man]

I never said that it was, I just always assumed Orochimaru had a means of keeping acquiring and keeping bloodline jutsus since his intention is to possess every one of them...

I'm nitpicking but technically his goal is to learn every jutsu, and you don't learn some bloodline jutsus, you're born with them. That always sort of implied to me that he was after every skill that could be learned as an extension of the whole "knowledge is power" cliche.

Still, if he could permanently acquire bloodline limits, you'd think he'd have demonstrated some while fighting Sandaime.

[G_Man]

naruto is a shonen jump title... and it's a ninja comic. i dont think these authors are supposed to be writing war and peace.

i think more is expected of a deathnote type comic.

Odd comparison since War & Peace has nothing to do with breeding superhuman weapons despite the title. :p

And frankly I wouldn't expect something like that in Deathnote either, not unless Orochiamru suddenly became as smart/possessed as much good sense as Kira/Light.

I was pointing a mistake of basic common sense. If I had some super minion who was dying but whose powers could be transferred to his offspring, I'd (and I think anyone at least as smart as me and as ruthless as Orochimaru) would get the guy laid, and reap the benefits during the next generation.

Granted there could be reasons, such as the disease being genetic, or Melchior's theory, but it'd have been nice if Kishimoto had mentioned these. We point out plot holes in American comics all the time. If the this guy is supposed to be a ruthless super genius, I imagine he'd be able to come to an obvious conclusion that me, a guy dumb enough to be struggling through part-time community college, was able to figure a day after I'd read the chapters with Kimimaro.

Of course, if the bad guys had the common sense or creativity of the average poster on this board, the series would all have short tragic endings, but that doesn't mean I can't point it out anyway. :D

[Jared_Humpherys]

There's no indication that Orochimaru is able to take the bloodlines of others into himself. If that were the case, he would only have posessed people with bloodlines, and would have displayed some against the Hokage(or he wouldn't be prepping to take over Sasuke's body). That said, he HAS made some accomplishments in increasing the powers of kekkei genkai using the curse seal. Kimimaro is a good example of this, as are Sakon and Ukon, as all displayed new levels of ability with their bloodline limit after entering curse seal lvl 2(and I posted an earlier hypothesis that speculates the same may apply to Sasuke and the sharingan).

[Melchior]

There's no indication that Orochimaru is able to take the bloodlines of others into himself. If that were the case, he would only have posessed people with bloodlines, and would have displayed some against the Hokage(or he wouldn't be prepping to take over Sasuke's body). That said, he HAS made some accomplishments in increasing the powers of kekkei genkai using the curse seal. Kimimaro is a good example of this, as are Sakon and Ukon, as all displayed new levels of ability with their bloodline limit after entering curse seal lvl 2(and I posted an earlier hypothesis that speculates the same may apply to Sasuke and the sharingan).

Well, the body possession seems to indicate that if the body he takes has a bloodline, he should be able to use it. Of course, if he keeps changing which particular bloodline he's using, he has to keep track of what his current body can do, which doesn't seem quite right for the snake. The obvious solution would be to breed bloodlines together, which brings up three things.

1. Orochimaru is probably little more than 50 year old. Assuming he left the Leaf in his early 20s (I actually suspect closer to the 30s), and that he has not induced early puberty in subjects, that gives him some 3-4 generations worth of bloodline crossing. He hasn't had much time to work.

2. Orochimaru has to worry about bloodline occurance. For example, if a Sharingan and Byakugan users had a kid, would the kid have the Sharingan or the Byakugan? Since all Hyuuga have the Byakugan, but not all Uchiha had the Sharingan, than trying to put two similiar abilities together might result in partial or complete loss of the one or even both of the abilities. So you would have to have multiple goes for more recessive genes to come out without weakening the base stock due to the standard problems of restricted breeding.

3. Orochimaru has to worry about bloodline dominance and side effects. For example, what would he do if it turns out impossible for the Sharingan and Byakugan to coexist in the same body? What happens if a super-rubbery body type causes horrific damage when combined with Kimimaro's bone body due to conflicting chakra pathways? Orochimaru strikes me as the type of guy who would check extensively to make sure the body would not backfire on him, before taking it over.

1 means that 2 and 3 haven't had time to properly test, so why not go ahead, get something to either toughen him up or help him learn, and get the normal jutsus out of the way while playing genetic matchmaker.

*Pictures Orochimaru singing "Matchmaker, Matchmaker"*

Anyway.... if I may ask, where's that sig quote from, G Man?

[Cowlander]

Thank ye.:)

One quick thing, though:

Orochimaru's snake-thing isn't a bloodline. Actually, all three of the sannin are drawn from the Japanese tale: "The Tale of the Gallant Jiraya." In there, Jiraya is a warrior who knows toad magic, Tsunade knows slug magic, and Orochimaru, the villain, knows snake magic(also of note: in the story, Tsunade is married to Jiraya). Orochimaru's nake-like jutsu are all forbidden and/or hidden jutsu, but aren't bloodline-related(if that were the case, he'd loose them when he body-switched). The Tsunade/Jiraya/Orochimaru thing is just more of the author tying his work to Japanese literature/mythology.
Yeah I knew about the legend. But what I meant was it seemed the only way to explain Orochis appearance. Since hes always looked like that.

[Jared_Humpherys]

Yeah I knew about the legend. But what I meant was it seemed the only way to explain Orochis appearance. Since hes always looked like that.

Not really. Altered appearance does not equal bloodline. After all, Sakura has pink hair. And Haku's bloodline has never shown any physical changes(aside from having no need to do 2-handed seals). The easiest way to qualify Orochimaru's appearance is author's wishes.

[Cowlander]

Not really. Altered appearance does not equal bloodline. After all, Sakura has pink hair. And Haku's bloodline has never shown any physical changes(aside from having no need to do 2-handed seals). The easiest way to qualify Orochimaru's appearance is author's wishes.


Definitely...

The no hand seal thing is supposed to be part of haku's bloodline limit?

[Jared_Humpherys]

Definitely...

The no hand seal thing is supposed to be part of haku's bloodline limit?

One-handed, actually. And it's heavily implied, if not stated outright(cause if it wasn't, then Orochimaru and others would be able to do it, for one).

[G_Man]

One-handed, actually. And it's heavily implied, if not stated outright(cause if it wasn't, then Orochimaru and others would be able to do it, for one).

Actually, rather than it being one-handed seals for any jutsu, I imagine the bloodline limit for Haku allows him to use one-handed seals for the jutsus that relate directly to his bloodline (the mirrors and ice needles).

I always figured the point of Haku's bloodline was to allow the wielder to perform high level Suiton (Water Release) and Hyouton (Ice release) jutsus with greater ease (or at least a specific set of those types of jutsus) since the bloodline seems to revolve around manipulating water and ice.

As for Melchior's question, the quote in my sig comes from a fan comic strip (the artist has a deviantart account). It can be found in the Himitsu Desu forums (a board for fans of NaruHina) under their fanart section. I'd recommend checking it out, not just for NaruHina fans as they also have non-relationship related fan art, and alot (the majority in fact) of it is seriously good stuff. I'm thinking of changing my av to a pic I saw their that was just too damn adorable for mere words. :D

[Jared_Humpherys]

Actually, rather than it being one-handed seals for any jutsu, I imagine the bloodline limit for Haku allows him to use one-handed seals for the jutsus that relate directly to his bloodline (the mirrors and ice needles).

I always figured the point of Haku's bloodline was to allow the wielder to perform high level Suiton (Water Release) and Hyouton (Ice release) jutsus with greater ease (or at least a specific set of those types of jutsus) since the bloodline seems to revolve around manipulating water and ice.

As for Melchior's question, the quote in my sig comes from a fan comic strip (the artist has a deviantart account). It can be found in the Himitsu Desu forums (a board for fans of NaruHina) under their fanart section. I'd recommend checking it out, not just for NaruHina fans as they also have non-relationship related fan art, and alot (the majority in fact) of it is seriously good stuff. I'm thinking of changing my av to a pic I saw their that was just too damn adorable for mere words. :D

Didn't Haku also use one-handed seals to make a water bushin? That would imply that the one-handed seals apply to all water/ice jutsu, at the very least.

[G_Man]

Didn't Haku also use one-handed seals to make a water bushin? That would imply that the one-handed seals apply to all water/ice jutsu, at the very least.

I didn't see Haku make any water bunshins unless it was an anime only thing, but that would relate to my theory about his bloodline being for the purpose of making water/ice jutsus easier to use. :cool:

[Jared_Humpherys]

I didn't see Haku make any water bunshins unless it was an anime only thing, but that would relate to my theory about his bloodline being for the purpose of making water/ice jutsus easier to use. :cool:

Maybe I was thinking of the wrong thing. But he has been able to use water jutsu without ANY hand seals to speak of:

http://leafninja.com/jutsu/WaterManipulationB.jpg

http://leafninja.com/jutsu/WaterManipulation1.jpg

http://leafninja.com/jutsu/WaterManipulation2.jpg

The latter, of course, is when he accidentally killed his father.

[Hiromi]

He can freeze water/manipulate ice yeah, that's his actual bloodline ability.

[apple pro]

weird question

why is Naruto's signature clone jutsu supposed to be "forbidden"? in the first book, the junin had naruto steal it and everybody was scared because of the scroll. but naruto's jutsu doesn't seem like thatbig if a deal. in the naruto episode tonight, kekkaishi did a lil clone jutsu (not sure if they were solid, naruto style but if naruto can learn it in one night, how bad can it be?)

[Cowlander]

weird question

why is Naruto's signature clone jutsu supposed to be "forbidden"? in the first book, the junin had naruto steal it and everybody was scared because of the scroll. but naruto's jutsu doesn't seem like thatbig if a deal. in the naruto episode tonight, kekkaishi did a lil clone jutsu (not sure if they were solid, naruto style but if naruto can learn it in one night, how bad can it be?)
normal busjin are simply illusions. They dont hav any substance and simply are there for distraction. Kagebushin are actually solid physical clones. That can act independently, creating jutsus or whatever is needed. Only downside being that it splits the chakra among them. Only with Naruto he has so much it doesnt matter.

I thinks that how it all works out. Any corrections.....

[G_Man]

Cowlander is right. The Kage Bunshin or Shadow Clone is forbidden cuz' it takes so much chakra, if anyone who wasn't Jounin-level in strength tried using it too much, they'd quickly run themselves out of chakra and maybe even die of energy depletion.

For Naruto it doesn't matter (and you'll notice he's the only one in the series who makes tons and tons of clones in a single fight) cuz' even without the chakra he gets from the demon fox, he has so much of his own natural chakra that it's almost absurd. Far more than any normal ninja.

[Len Ikari145]

Cowlander is right. The Kage Bunshin or Shadow Clone is forbidden cuz' it takes so much chakra, if anyone who wasn't Jounin-level in strength tried using it too much, they'd quickly run themselves out of chakra and maybe even die of energy depletion.

For Naruto it doesn't matter (and you'll notice he's the only one in the series who makes tons and tons of clones in a single fight) cuz' even without the chakra he gets from the demon fox, he has so much of his own natural chakra that it's almost absurd. Far more than any normal ninja.
Why is that do you think? Kakashi commented that Naruto already had an absurd amount of chakra before he began siphoning from Kyubi(even before the fight with Haku). Do you think it's because he's the Fourth's son? Another thing, since it's already been more than hinted at that Naruto and Kyuubi's chakra are fusing...that pretty much means Naruto has no equal!

[Jared_Humpherys]

Why is that do you think? Kakashi commented that Naruto already had an absurd amount of chakra before he began siphoning from Kyubi(even before the fight with Haku). Do you think it's because he's the Fourth's son? Another thing, since it's already been more than hinted at that Naruto and Kyuubi's chakra are fusing...that pretty much means Naruto has no equal!

Chakra-wise, that's pretty much true. Naruto's problem is his lack of chakra control(or was. His 2.5 years of training with Jiraya may have fixed that), and his lack of taijutsu skills.

To be frank, if Naruto had Sakura's level of control, and even half of Rock Lee's taijutsu skill, he'd be a friggin' BEAST.

As for why Naruto's chakra is so high: keep in mind the nature of the jutsu used to seal the kyuubi: a slightly altered version of the double-death shinigami technique(not it's real name, but I'm forgetful at the moment). The jutsu used by the Sandaime was said to drag both users down with it. So therefore, it's possible that at least part of the 4th was brought into Naruto with the kyuubi, contributing to his high level of chakra. Also, the two chakras have been mixing pretty much since he's been born.

[apple pro]

well this brings to mind another question:

WHO IS NARUTO's PARENTS? was he just an orphen after the fight like iruka is or is he jesus-style immaculate? if he was a hokage's son, i dont think the village would treat him like shyt for more than a decade

[Jared_Humpherys]

well this brings to mind another question:

WHO IS NARUTO's PARENTS? was he just an orphen after the fight like iruka is or is he jesus-style immaculate? if he was a hokage's son, i dont think the village would treat him like shyt for more than a decade


Why wouldn't they? After all, even though the 4th's last words were "don't hate him or call him a monster, treat him like a hero" or somesuch, they STILL treated him like garbage.

As for Naruto's parentage, there is no evidence whatsoever on who his mother could be(or if there is, it slipped way under my radar).

All we know is this:

Around the time his mother was about to give birth to him, the Nine-tails Demon Fox attacked his village, and the Yondaime Hokage decided to seal the demon away with a forbidden technique inside him, sacrificing his life in the process. Yondaime's wish was for Naruto to be remembered as a hero by the people of the village.

[sehthan]

weird question

why is Naruto's signature clone jutsu supposed to be "forbidden"? in the first book, the junin had naruto steal it and everybody was scared because of the scroll. but naruto's jutsu doesn't seem like thatbig if a deal. in the naruto episode tonight, kekkaishi did a lil clone jutsu (not sure if they were solid, naruto style but if naruto can learn it in one night, how bad can it be?)


I was under the impression that there were more forbidden techniques in that scroll, and the Kage Bushin was either just the first one or the one Naruto happened to read. Most of the techniques forbidden in Konoha seem to be forbidden because they're dangerous to the user, so everyone else's explanation of why the Kage Bushin was forbidden works for me. Naruto mastering the technique so quickly remains a bit of an anomoly, but was an early indication that he had way more potential than had been recognized.

[Sheldon]

DAmmit when is 291 out?

[Jared_Humpherys]

DAmmit when is 291 out?

19th or 20.

[Len Ikari145]

Naruto mastering the technique so quickly remains a bit of an anomoly, but was an early indication that he had way more potential than had been recognized.

Especially since he sucked at making normal Bunshins.

[G_Man]

Especially since he sucked at making normal Bunshins.

We're never given a real explanation for that, but I prefer the popular fan theory:

"Naruto sucks at Genjutsu even worse than he did at Taijutsu and regular Bunshin are more like Genjutsu while Kage Bunshin are more like Ninjutsu".

Makes sense to me. Post-time skip Naruto flashes back to his training and Jiraiya flat out told him he was hopeless when it came to Genjutsu.

[Hiromi]

There's also the theory that learning Kage Bunshin simply got him over the block he'd developed for it.

[Melchior]

My theory is simple: Naruto has too much chakra to easily do fine work (which is why his genjutsu sucks), and a bushin uses significantly less chakra than a kage bushin.

Typically doesn't matter, since Naruto can generally waste more chakra than a typical team has without actually getting weaker. That, and most of the higher techniques require more power, so its not as much of a disadvantage it might be.

Idle thought, did Naruto ever use a normal bushin rather than kage bushin other than at the 3rd Chuunin exam?

[Jared_Humpherys]

291 hasn't been released just yet, but here (http://www.nfcamp.mychost.com/images/raw/) are some spoiler images.


From what I have been able to gather...

Yamato's wood powers are the result of genetic experiments done on him by Orochimaru using the cells of the 1st Hokage. Apparently, the 1st also had some control over bijuu, which has yet to be fully explained.

Jiraya has a massive scar from Naruto going 4-tails. Apparently, in 4-tail form, Naruto goes berzerk, and his body begins to bleed and break down. The seals on the Kyuubi appear to be growing weaker and weaker.

Naruto goes 3-tailed and apparently punches Orochimaru in the face, sending him flying into the woods.

Unconfirmed: Tobi, Zetsu and Deidara show up to watch the fight. Deidara's arms are back to normal.

[Hiromi]

I'm all excited now.

[Jared_Humpherys]

I'm all excited now.

I don't blame you. This looks to be the coolest chapter in quite some time.

[Len Ikari145]

Random question: Who do you think will play the english voice of Kyuubi?

I vote Ward Perry, the english voice actor who plays Sounga in the 3rd Inuyasha movie(He just sounds so malicious and sadistic, he'd be perfect :D ).

[G_Man]

Random question: Who do you think will play the english voice of Kyuubi?

I vote Ward Perry, the english voice actor who plays Sounga in the 3rd Inuyasha movie(He just sounds so malicious and sadistic, he'd be perfect :D ).

He has also done bad guys for tons of other animated series. I agree with your choice. He's the quintessential VA for bad guys here in the States. :D

[Len Ikari145]

291 hasn't been released just yet, but here (http://www.nfcamp.mychost.com/images/raw/) are some spoiler images.


From what I have been able to gather...

Yamato's wood powers are the result of genetic experiments done on him by Orochimaru using the cells of the 1st Hokage. Apparently, the 1st also had some control over bijuu, which has yet to be fully explained.

Jiraya has a massive scar from Naruto going 4-tails. Apparently, in 4-tail form, Naruto goes berzerk, and his body begins to bleed and break down. The seals on the Kyuubi appear to be growing weaker and weaker.

Naruto goes 3-tailed and apparently punches Orochimaru in the face, sending him flying into the woods.

Unconfirmed: Tobi, Zetsu and Deidara show up to watch the fight. Deidara's arms are back to normal.

Naruto's already using four tails? HOLY CRAP! :eek:

[G_Man]

Naruto's already using four tails? HOLY CRAP! :eek:

Brillant. Completely eliminate the point of his putting that in spoiler tags... ;)

Anyway, apparently using that much of Kyuubi's power starts killing him though.

As cool as the RAW was, I'm a little disappointed. That chapter was only 15 pages.

[Jared_Humpherys]

Nevermind.



note: looks like the Atasuki thing was incorrect, that is, if 15 pages was it.

[Jared_Humpherys]

Looks like there ARE 2 pages missing. Note the numbring on the second page is 138. So that makes the first page 137. Now, the page from the last has the numbering 152. So that makes the last page 153. Also count the pages between 142 and 150. There are 2 missing there. So, unless there are some ads, we may be seeing some more of this raw.

the extra pages are just more exoposition in Kakashi's room.

[Hiromi]

The two pages missing weren't big, just more of the flashback(they preceeded Jiraiya showing his scar). Translation foloows

JOJO 008

YAMATO: ... so that's how it is... it has finally appeared!

Flashback sequence begins:

Jiraiya: As we have feared... as the Kyuubi Chakra begins to take form, more tails will appear, until finally...

Kakashi: ...it reaches 9 tails

Tsunade: ...
Yamato: ...

JOJO 009

Kakashi: How many tails exactly, has Jiraiya-sama seen?
Jiraiya: hoo...

Jiraiya: of my whole life up to now, I have narrowly escaped death twice.
The first time, 6 of my ribs broke, as well as both my hands... not to mention severe ruptures in many of my internal organs...
Jiraiya: just because I wanted to peek at you in the women's hot springs, Tsunade... you completely beat me up.
Jiraiya: The second time....

Yamato: ...!
Kakashi: ...
Tsunade: ...

JOJO 010

Jiraiya: ... was during one of my training sessions with Naruto, after witnessing the fourth tail

Oh yeah, good chapter

Naruto sprouting three tails and ripping off Snakeface's face? Awesome

[G_Man]

Naruto sprouting three tails and ripping off Snakeface's face? Awesome

The scary thing, he just seemed to laugh it off.

[G_Man]

This chapter also raises an interesting question (for me at least) I always figured that Hidden Grass would primarily have plant-based jutsus for it's nins, but apparently, those Mokuton jutsus were something unique solely to the first Hokage (Shoudaime, Tsunade's granfather). It wasn't even genetic.

So my question is if Leaf Nins use fire jutsus (I know they use more, but that's the element most associated with them), Mist, Rain, and Waterfall nins use water jutsus, Stone nins use Earth jutsus, and Sand nins use wind jutsus, what jutsus do Grass nins use? :confused:

[NeoSapien]

This chapter also raises an interesting question (for me at least) I always figured that Hidden Grass would primarily have plant-based jutsus for it's nins, but apparently, those Mokuton jutsus were something unique solely to the first Hokage (Shoudaime, Tsunade's granfather). It wasn't even genetic.

So my question is if Leaf Nins use fire jutsus (I know they use more, but that's the element most associated with them), Mist, Rain, and Waterfall nins use water jutsus, Stone nins use Earth jutsus, and Sand nins use wind jutsus, what jutsus do Grass nins use? :confused:
Earth jutsu, probably. We may never actually see a real Grass-nin in action, though; the best bet is Zetsu, and he seems to have some sort of Swamp Thing-esque plant elemental omnipresence jutsu. But he is so weird that he wouldn't count as a typical Grass-nin.

[Hiromi]

And in any case it may just be different types of plant justu, you really dont see that many trees in true grasslands.

[MKTerra]

*watches Naruto on CN*

Naruto: *gasp* "Sensei just disappeared! Is he giving us some alooone time?" :D

[Len Ikari145]

*watches Naruto on CN*

Naruto: *gasp* "Sensei just disappeared! Is he giving us some alooone time?" :D
God, he's an idiot. A lovable idiot, but nonetheless.

[NeoSapien]

Anyone seen the chapter 292 spoiler pictures on NarutoForums yet? Because, oh my God.
Based on what has been released so far (pages ~5-12), Orochimaru has gone MIA on the other side of the bridge, meaning he either ran away before the battle started or was hurtled out of view by Naruto. Kabuto and the middle of the bridge have been obliterated by Kyuubi Naruto's chakra scream x 100, which is basically a glowing ball of doom. In his rapid flight to Yamato's side of the bridge (where he lands with a goofy grin), Kabuto has knocked Sakura unconscious accidentally with his butt. The bridge has begun toppling, sending Sakura plunging into the abyss straight past Sai, on his way up on a painting-conjured bird, who does not even try to save her and instead heads off on his secret mission. Sakura is saved in the nick of time by Yamato's Mokuton ninjutsu, and 3-tail Naruto has run off recklessly into the forest presumably in search of the MIA Orochimaru.
Oh my God. This has to be the greatest display of ninja incompetence since Beverly Hills Ninja.

[G_Man]

Anyone seen the chapter 292 spoiler pictures on NarutoForums yet? Because, oh my God.
Based on what has been released so far (pages ~5-12), Orochimaru has gone MIA on the other side of the bridge, meaning he either ran away before the battle started or was hurtled out of view by Naruto. Kabuto and the middle of the bridge have been obliterated by Kyuubi Naruto's chakra scream x 100, which is basically a glowing ball of doom. In his rapid flight to Yamato's side of the bridge (where he lands with a goofy grin), Kabuto has knocked Sakura unconscious accidentally with his butt. The bridge has begun toppling, sending Sakura plunging into the abyss straight past Sai, on his way up on a painting-conjured bird, who does not even try to save her and instead heads off on his secret mission. Sakura is saved in the nick of time by Yamato's Mokuton ninjutsu, and 3-tail Naruto has run off recklessly into the forest presumably in search of the MIA Orochimaru.
Oh my God. This has to be the greatest display of ninja incompetence since Beverly Hills Ninja.

The hell...!? I can only hope you've somehow damaged your eyes and misinterpreted the scenes, but that's effing' ridiculous! :eek:

[Chocolove]

You'd think by now Naruto would have gained a bit more discipline... You'd think. And Sakura has gone back to being useless it would seem. Oh, yeah, and Sai is still a sucka. And Yamato is boring.

Can't wait for the next chapter!

[NeoSapien]

The hell...!? I can only hope you've somehow damaged your eyes and misinterpreted the scenes, but that's effing' ridiculous! :eek:
I'm completely positive about everything but Orochimaru running away. But I don't see what other reason there would be for his absence over 6 pages while it all goes to hell - it would be redundant to see him tossed again. If you don't believe the other stuff, look for yourself (http://forums.narutofan.com/showpost.php?p=2939908&postcount=587). Boom. Oh, and I (Marsala over there) got sigged at the bottom of the post under 292 Greatness.

You'd think by now Naruto would have gained a bit more discipline... You'd think. And Sakura has gone back to being useless it would seem. Oh, yeah, and Sai is still a sucka. And Yamato is boring.
This is a battle that began with Orochimaru running away without a fight, and continued with Kabuto trying to either attack or sneak by the person Orochimaru ran away from and, um, paying the price for it. Sakura being knocked unconscious by Kabuto's flying butt and Naruto's reckless pursuit are just part of the madness. I'm sure Sakura won't be so easily disposed of in the next, more serious battle. Frankly, I expect her to be the one to beat Sasuke, as the idea of a fight between him and Naruto is now an utter joke.

[G_Man]

Not exactly Kabuto's butt so much as his entire body being hurled at blur speed, but yeah, you'd think she could take the hit considering the pounding she took during the fight with Sasori.

Naruto didn't mean for Sakura to get nailed and the closer he gets to four tails the more berzerk he goes. Oh, who am I kidding. It's offical folks, Kishimoto has stopped caring about this series. :(

Incidentally, they had another popularity poll and depsite not even showing up yet post-time skip, Sasuke is still the #1 fan favorite. Kakashi being #2 doesn't bug me so much, but Deidara ranking higher than Naruto? Ladies and gentlemen, this is why I will never understand the Japanese... :confused:

[NeoSapien]

Not exactly Kabuto's butt so much as his entire body being hurled at blur speed, but yeah, you'd think she could take the hit considering the pounding she took during the fight with Sasori.
Well, it was that combined with having the back of her head slammed right into the ground. Anyway, it was a plot device to show Sai's utter lack of caring for teammates. Pretty funny in a dark way.

Naruto didn't mean for Sakura to get nailed and the closer he gets to four tails the more berzerk he goes. Oh, who am I kidding. It's offical folks, Kishimoto has stopped caring about this series. :(
Hmm? But this chapter is so cool! We were expecting some tremendous fight and instead Orochimaru just vanishes and we get the most comic battle since Naruto beat Kiba with a fart. The Kabuto literally embracing his own humiliation shot is priceless on its own.

Incidentally, they had another popularity poll and depsite not even showing up yet post-time skip, Sasuke is still the #1 fan favorite. Kakashi being #2 doesn't bug me so much, but Deidara ranking higher than Naruto? Ladies and gentlemen, this is why I will never understand the Japanese... :confused:
The popularity polls mean nothing. Iruka has placed #4-5 in all of them despite (or rather because) of being popular only among the yaoi fangirl demographic. The total votes were far less than the total votes for Bleach, despite Naruto being considerably more popular in Japan. And since voting is dependent on sending in cards from the magazine, it is no more statistically representative than the infamous women's magazine poll that gave the result that a majority of American married women have had an affair.

[Nick Soapdish]

So when the heck is the full 292 coming out? I'm dyin' here.

[NeoSapien]

So when the heck is the full 292 coming out? I'm dyin' here.
It's out. And forget anything I said about Orochimaru running away.

[Chocolove]

Not exactly Kabuto's butt so much as his entire body being hurled at blur speed, but yeah, you'd think she could take the hit considering the pounding she took during the fight with Sasori.

I dunno, when has Sakura taken a major blow that didn't involve being cut or impaled ? Nothing really comes to mind in the Sasori fight and I've been under the impression that her durability isn't impressive compared to her strength unless she has the Wonder Woman clause.

I'm just disappointed with Naruto the character, though I think the story could have been planned a bit better. The character hasn't shown much growth either way in terms of temperament or capabilities. I wouldn't be surprised to find the berserking Naruto may be a plot point (more than likely it is), but still.

[Hiromi]

Wow, this is easily Naruto's most impressive looking transformation sequence yet. Instead of just having floppy ears and a tail he's looking like the actual Kyuubi. And Sai's a royal bastard.

[G_Man]

I dunno, when has Sakura taken a major blow that didn't involve being cut or impaled ?

When she blew herself up with an explosion tag to escape Sasori's Sandaime Kazekage puppet. Granted that's more heat than anything but the blast must have contained some significant concussive force. Judging by the size of the blast it looked like it was damn near comparable to a grenade going off.

[G_Man]

Having finally seen all of chap 292 (translated), anybody else see Orochimaru basically puking himself a new body (after Naruto tore off his arm!) and what to join in on the hurling?

Oh, and Orochimaru is officially full of BS. Naruto tore off his arm and he taunts Naruto by saying he still has a way to go before equaling Sasuke? My ass! :mad:

[Jared_Humpherys]

Having finally seen all of chap 292 (translated), anybody else see Orochimaru basically puking himself a new body (after Naruto tore off his arm!) and what to join in on the hurling?

Oh, and Orochimaru is officially full of BS. Naruto tore off his arm and he taunts Naruto by saying he still has a way to go before equaling Sasuke? My ass! :mad:

Unless Sasuke got a bijuu(and that is possible, however unlikely), Oro's just talking smack. Sasuke likely has more finesse and control, but Oro's implying that Sasuke could do well against a Naruto of that lvl where Jiraya nearly friggin died, and that's just plain crap.

What is likely is that Sasuke knows a whole lot of forbidden jutsu(and less likely: he may have advanced his sharingan somehow, as the curse seals have been able to improve all bloodlines thus far...), as it wouldn't take much for his sharingan to duplicate Oro'c techniques.

[Jared_Humpherys]

The case for Orochimaru having a bijuu(note: most of the info here came from Narutofan):

Tale in the Legend of the Tailed Beasts： Yamata no Orochi is a Snake bijuu. It has crimsom red eyes, eight heads and eight tails (also depicted to having trees and vines growing around them) and has the power of the Demon world, a symbol of evil. Each head of Yamata no Orochi represents a symbol: Soul, Ghost, Evil, Devil, Monstrous, Kill, The Afterworld and Death.
Its powers were originally weak, the members of the Kusanagi clan, when attacking it, acted carelessly, using the legendary sword Kusanagi no Tsurugi (Oro’s sword). Because of that, as a consequence, Yamata no Orochi takes the sword from them, absorbing the power contained inside, and becoming an incredibly powerful creature, and finally storing it in its body.
With the new power, Yamata no Orochi releases an insane amount of dark energy, awakening the other Bijuu and becoming arrogant. Yamata no Orochi proceeds to defeat many of the Bijuu, but when it battles with Kyuubi, it is defeated. The cause of this is simple: Kyuubi has an unlimited amount of power, making even a hole in the Kusanagi sword. As this happens, it shows how tremendously powerful Kyuubi is, deserving of the “King of Bijuu” title. Not even Sarutobi and Enma (I’m not sure how those two are into the legend) could scratch the Kusanagi no Tsurugi. (That makes connections to the Oro x Sandaime battle)
Legend also depicted it as having a power able to rival Kyuubi’s [in quality], but the fact is, Yamata no Orochi’s does have a limit.

Fate： Yamata no Orochi awaits a genius of the Yagami (NOT the Kanji of Yagami from Death Note, but Yagami as in Eight Gods: 八神) clan, which is the arch enemy of the Kusanagi clan. The purpose is to awake it [Yamata no Orochi], in order to fight Kyuubi again.(Sasuke?!)

Since Yamata no Orochi’s power inherits in the Yagami Clan, If the heir appears as the first genius in 1000 years that is able to awake Yamata no Orochi’s ability, it will be completely restored. Once the process is done, the genius with such crucial task will be destroyed due to the true body of Yamata no Orochi resurfacing, which has an all-new power. It won’t be found before the decisive battle with Kyuubi, and will be able to kill no matter of thing, destroy any type of place, and attain infinite vision (as Kyuubi has). The core of Yamata no Orochi’s power is in a kind of forbidden sealing jutsu(and Orochimaru has a ton of these). As soon as the Yagami clan heir comprehends enough of it, a bigger, much stronger power will surface in the grasp of Yamata no Orochi.

Japanese Myth Appearance: A super Snake of Eight heads and Eight tails, attached to a single body. Has a deep brown color. It definitely is the biggest bijuu - the lenghth of it is over eight mountains. Originally, it was weaker than Houkou and Nekomata; however, that was 1000 years before a brave warrior tried defeating it with the Kusanagi no Tsurugi. In the process, the sword’s power is absorbed instead by Yamata no Orochi, thus greatly expanding his power. He continues though to be able to use freely the sword in his belly.
Ability: The legendary sword: Kusanagi no Tsurugi; summoning of evil spirits

Personal notes: This one resembles Orochimaru, but what is interesting is the “Yagami genius” legend, which OF COURSE screams Sasuke.
More info about Yamata no Orochi:

There is the story of the killing of the Eight-Headed Serpent by Susanoo(which may be the name of Kakashi's manegkyou move, which Sasuke may end up getting as well). According to the legend, a local town had been living in fear of the Serpent, and the townspeople offered the sacrifice of a young girl each year to keep it appeased. Lord Susanoo heard about the town's dilemma, and became determined to slay the beast. He exterminated the serpent by serving it alcohol, and then cutting off its heads while it was intoxicated. Between the Kagura performances, this one is the most famous.

[Cowlander]

Great work Jared

[G_Man]

The case for Orochimaru having a bijuu(note: most of the info here came from Narutofan):

Tale in the Legend of the Tailed Beasts： Yamata no Orochi is a Snake bijuu. It has crimsom red eyes, eight heads and eight tails (also depicted to having trees and vines growing around them) and has the power of the Demon world, a symbol of evil. Each head of Yamata no Orochi represents a symbol: Soul, Ghost, Evil, Devil, Monstrous, Kill, The Afterworld and Death.
Its powers were originally weak, the members of the Kusanagi clan, when attacking it, acted carelessly, using the legendary sword Kusanagi no Tsurugi (Oro’s sword). Because of that, as a consequence, Yamata no Orochi takes the sword from them, absorbing the power contained inside, and becoming an incredibly powerful creature, and finally storing it in its body.
With the new power, Yamata no Orochi releases an insane amount of dark energy, awakening the other Bijuu and becoming arrogant. Yamata no Orochi proceeds to defeat many of the Bijuu, but when it battles with Kyuubi, it is defeated. The cause of this is simple: Kyuubi has an unlimited amount of power, making even a hole in the Kusanagi sword. As this happens, it shows how tremendously powerful Kyuubi is, deserving of the “King of Bijuu” title. Not even Sarutobi and Enma (I’m not sure how those two are into the legend) could scratch the Kusanagi no Tsurugi. (That makes connections to the Oro x Sandaime battle)
Legend also depicted it as having a power able to rival Kyuubi’s [in quality], but the fact is, Yamata no Orochi’s does have a limit.

Fate： Yamata no Orochi awaits a genius of the Yagami (NOT the Kanji of Yagami from Death Note, but Yagami as in Eight Gods: 八神) clan, which is the arch enemy of the Kusanagi clan. The purpose is to awake it [Yamata no Orochi], in order to fight Kyuubi again.(Sasuke?!)

Since Yamata no Orochi’s power inherits in the Yagami Clan, If the heir appears as the first genius in 1000 years that is able to awake Yamata no Orochi’s ability, it will be completely restored. Once the process is done, the genius with such crucial task will be destroyed due to the true body of Yamata no Orochi resurfacing, which has an all-new power. It won’t be found before the decisive battle with Kyuubi, and will be able to kill no matter of thing, destroy any type of place, and attain infinite vision (as Kyuubi has). The core of Yamata no Orochi’s power is in a kind of forbidden sealing jutsu(and Orochimaru has a ton of these). As soon as the Yagami clan heir comprehends enough of it, a bigger, much stronger power will surface in the grasp of Yamata no Orochi.

Japanese Myth Appearance: A super Snake of Eight heads and Eight tails, attached to a single body. Has a deep brown color. It definitely is the biggest bijuu - the lenghth of it is over eight mountains. Originally, it was weaker than Houkou and Nekomata; however, that was 1000 years before a brave warrior tried defeating it with the Kusanagi no Tsurugi. In the process, the sword’s power is absorbed instead by Yamata no Orochi, thus greatly expanding his power. He continues though to be able to use freely the sword in his belly.
Ability: The legendary sword: Kusanagi no Tsurugi; summoning of evil spirits

Personal notes: This one resembles Orochimaru, but what is interesting is the “Yagami genius” legend, which OF COURSE screams Sasuke.
More info about Yamata no Orochi:

There is the story of the killing of the Eight-Headed Serpent by Susanoo(which may be the name of Kakashi's manegkyou move, which Sasuke may end up getting as well). According to the legend, a local town had been living in fear of the Serpent, and the townspeople offered the sacrifice of a young girl each year to keep it appeased. Lord Susanoo heard about the town's dilemma, and became determined to slay the beast. He exterminated the serpent by serving it alcohol, and then cutting off its heads while it was intoxicated. Between the Kagura performances, this one is the most famous.

That would certainly explain why he's so damn cocky despite just havng had one of his arms torn off casually by a berzerk Naruto. It would also explain why he was faring so damn well against both Jiraiya and Tsunade despite having his arms sealed.

It also leaves an out for one of those "Oh, he's not so bad..." anime villain cliche's. If he was a jinchuuriki and he thought that Sandaime chose the Fourth over him because of his being a jinchuuriki, it would explain his hatred of Konoha. I am kinda skeptical though, you'd think we'd have had more hints beyond the similarities between legends.

Hell, you'd think Jiraiya would mention something like that to Naruto:

Jiraiya - "Oh, hey, by the way, Orochimaru's a jinchuuriki like you and Gaara, except he's got the second strongest demon in the world after Kyuubi and he's got decades of experience on you. You might want to avoid a direct confrontation."

Naruto - :eek:

[NeoSapien]

That would certainly explain why he's so damn cocky despite just havng had one of his arms torn off casually by a berzerk Naruto. It would also explain why he was faring so damn well against both Jiraiya and Tsunade despite having his arms sealed.

It also leaves an out for one of those "Oh, he's not so bad..." anime villain cliche's. If he was a jinchuuriki and he thought that Sandaime chose the Fourth over him because of his being a jinchuuriki, it would explain his hatred of Konoha. I am kinda skeptical though, you'd think we'd have had more hints beyond the similarities between legends.

Hell, you'd think Jiraiya would mention something like that to Naruto:

Jiraiya - "Oh, hey, by the way, Orochimaru's a jinchuuriki like you and Gaara, except he's got the second strongest demon in the world after Kyuubi and he's got decades of experience on you. You might want to avoid a direct confrontation."

Naruto - :eek:
Hey, Naruto had never heard the word "jinchuuriki" or known that there were more bijuu besides Kyuubi and Ichibi no Shuukaku until recently, and now everyone is throwing around the word casually. Plus, they still haven't told Naruto the (obvious) truth about himself and the Fourth. At this point, I think Naruto won't find out at all unless Orochimaru spills the beans in the middle of a rant: "I was the one who set the Kyuubi on Konoha and caused Yondaime's wife to die in childbirth and Yondaime himself to sacrifice his life sealing the Kyuubi away in - his son! Mwahaha!"

We have had a few hints about Orochimaru = jinchuuriki, though. When Orochimaru possessed his new body, the guy looked into Oro's eyes and saw the image of a giant serpent. This was A LOT like the Kyuubi vision Orochimaru had in this chapter; in fact, I wonder if Naruto had a snake vision at the exact same time. There was an unusual focus on Naruto's eyes, as if he saw something significant.

[G_Man]

I only thought of this like two hours ago, but it might also explain why he can only swap bodies every three years. The Akatsuki not going after Naruto again for three years, and Orochimaru needing 3 years to swap bodies always did strike me as way too coincidental.

And what's with everybody blaming the Kyuubi attack on Orochimaru? I'd feel sorry for all the accusations he has to put up with if it weren't for the fact that he'd be proud if he was responsible. :p

[Corey Dreher]

The case for Orochimaru having a bijuu(note: most of the info here came from Narutofan):

Tale in the Legend of the Tailed Beasts： Yamata no Orochi is a Snake bijuu. It has crimsom red eyes, eight heads and eight tails (also depicted to having trees and vines growing around them) and has the power of the Demon world, a symbol of evil. Each head of Yamata no Orochi represents a symbol: Soul, Ghost, Evil, Devil, Monstrous, Kill, The Afterworld and Death.
Its powers were originally weak, the members of the Kusanagi clan, when attacking it, acted carelessly, using the legendary sword Kusanagi no Tsurugi (Oro’s sword). Because of that, as a consequence, Yamata no Orochi takes the sword from them, absorbing the power contained inside, and becoming an incredibly powerful creature, and finally storing it in its body.
With the new power, Yamata no Orochi releases an insane amount of dark energy, awakening the other Bijuu and becoming arrogant. Yamata no Orochi proceeds to defeat many of the Bijuu, but when it battles with Kyuubi, it is defeated. The cause of this is simple: Kyuubi has an unlimited amount of power, making even a hole in the Kusanagi sword. As this happens, it shows how tremendously powerful Kyuubi is, deserving of the “King of Bijuu” title. Not even Sarutobi and Enma (I’m not sure how those two are into the legend) could scratch the Kusanagi no Tsurugi. (That makes connections to the Oro x Sandaime battle)
Legend also depicted it as having a power able to rival Kyuubi’s [in quality], but the fact is, Yamata no Orochi’s does have a limit.

Fate： Yamata no Orochi awaits a genius of the Yagami (NOT the Kanji of Yagami from Death Note, but Yagami as in Eight Gods: 八神) clan, which is the arch enemy of the Kusanagi clan. The purpose is to awake it [Yamata no Orochi], in order to fight Kyuubi again.(Sasuke?!)

Since Yamata no Orochi’s power inherits in the Yagami Clan, If the heir appears as the first genius in 1000 years that is able to awake Yamata no Orochi’s ability, it will be completely restored. Once the process is done, the genius with such crucial task will be destroyed due to the true body of Yamata no Orochi resurfacing, which has an all-new power. It won’t be found before the decisive battle with Kyuubi, and will be able to kill no matter of thing, destroy any type of place, and attain infinite vision (as Kyuubi has). The core of Yamata no Orochi’s power is in a kind of forbidden sealing jutsu(and Orochimaru has a ton of these). As soon as the Yagami clan heir comprehends enough of it, a bigger, much stronger power will surface in the grasp of Yamata no Orochi.

Japanese Myth Appearance: A super Snake of Eight heads and Eight tails, attached to a single body. Has a deep brown color. It definitely is the biggest bijuu - the lenghth of it is over eight mountains. Originally, it was weaker than Houkou and Nekomata; however, that was 1000 years before a brave warrior tried defeating it with the Kusanagi no Tsurugi. In the process, the sword’s power is absorbed instead by Yamata no Orochi, thus greatly expanding his power. He continues though to be able to use freely the sword in his belly.
Ability: The legendary sword: Kusanagi no Tsurugi; summoning of evil spirits

Personal notes: This one resembles Orochimaru, but what is interesting is the “Yagami genius” legend, which OF COURSE screams Sasuke.
More info about Yamata no Orochi:

There is the story of the killing of the Eight-Headed Serpent by Susanoo(which may be the name of Kakashi's manegkyou move, which Sasuke may end up getting as well). According to the legend, a local town had been living in fear of the Serpent, and the townspeople offered the sacrifice of a young girl each year to keep it appeased. Lord Susanoo heard about the town's dilemma, and became determined to slay the beast. He exterminated the serpent by serving it alcohol, and then cutting off its heads while it was intoxicated. Between the Kagura performances, this one is the most famous.

I have to challenge you with this.

If Orchi is in fact has a bijuu, then why hasn't the Akatsuki going after him? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Akatsuki trying to collect Bijuus? And if one of their members who is very powerful mind you, fled the group, why wouldn't they go after him in seconds? I mean if Orchi has the second strongest Bijuu, then that could be a problem.

Not that your idea isn't good, but it has flaws. Orchi shows alot of signs of having a bijuu, but why wouldn't Itachi and the rest of them make it their number one thing they need to do is track Orchi down and get it back... unless they didn't know he had one... which could explain why he always has that snake-like apperance.

[G_Man]

I have to challenge you with this.

If Orchi is in fact has a bijuu, then why hasn't the Akatsuki going after him? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Akatsuki trying to collect Bijuus? And if one of their members who is very powerful mind you, fled the group, why wouldn't they go after him in seconds? I mean if Orchi has the second strongest Bijuu, then that could be a problem.

Not that your idea isn't good, but it has flaws. Orchi shows alot of signs of having a bijuu, but why wouldn't Itachi and the rest of them make it their number one thing they need to do is track Orchi down and get it back... unless they didn't know he had one... which could explain why he always has that snake-like apperance.

It's possible that Orochimaru was descended from someone who was the snake demon's previous host, and after joining acquired it for himself, but I think that's reaching a bit myself.

In any event, your reasoning is why I also question the theory that Kisame is a jinchuuriki, unless of course he got it after capturing his assigned target. Hell, Akatsuki may not even be after all jinchuuriki, just the ones who aren't already members of their group. Their goal may be to create an organization of the greatest criminals ever, each with his own personal demon.

[Jared_Humpherys]

I have to challenge you with this.

If Orchi is in fact has a bijuu, then why hasn't the Akatsuki going after him? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Akatsuki trying to collect Bijuus? And if one of their members who is very powerful mind you, fled the group, why wouldn't they go after him in seconds? I mean if Orchi has the second strongest Bijuu, then that could be a problem.

Not that your idea isn't good, but it has flaws. Orchi shows alot of signs of having a bijuu, but why wouldn't Itachi and the rest of them make it their number one thing they need to do is track Orchi down and get it back... unless they didn't know he had one... which could explain why he always has that snake-like apperance.


Did I ever say that I personally believed this to be true? I simply presented the information I found, and noted some interesting correlations. There's evidence that Kakashi once killed a Jinchuuriki with Raikiri; doesn't mean it actually happened that way. What should be noted is that the manga-ka is taking things out of mythology, but he may not be using them in the way we expect.

[Jared_Humpherys]

Yes, there is evidence that links Kakashi's Raikiri to mythology(and a potential bijuu/jinchurriki). Here it is(with props to narutofan.com):

Tale in the Legend of the Tailed Beasts： Raijuu, a bijuu in the form of weasel, has four legs and very sharp claws. Its cry sounds like thunder. It was originally the god of Thunder, but because of Yamata no Orochi’s power, it was transformed into a beast. Raijuu can release a huge amount of eletricity for battle assistance.

Fate： A ninja called Sarutobi (we don’t know if it’s the series’ Sandaime), in the legend, effectively eliminated Raijuu by using the technique “Kinjutsu: Raikiri”. (Now the confusion starts. This is supposed to be Kakashi’s move, but the way of writing may be different from the actual jutsu, and Kishimoto probably changed this legend to fit the story anyway). What actually happens is that the technique counters the lightning released by Raijuu by cutting it, making the beast receive its own attack, and become severely wounded. (Thus the name lightning edge.) He then is sealed by Sarutobi with the “Tool of Power: Hidden Thunder Prison” into the seal in the Thunder Shrine.
Japanese Myth Appearance: A species of weasel with golden yellow fur. The whole body’s fur grows upright. Its six tails take a lightning shape, just like the ancient God of Thunder.
Ability: Fire caused by lightning, Lightning Thunder, Lightning bolts, Lightning elemental magic arts; Raijuu may also fly about as a ball of lightning / fire.

Symbolic Element: Lightning (God of Lightning)
Origin / Discovered in： Underground the Thunder Shrine in a town in Kyoto(If this is right and we go by speculation, then could Kakashi have battled with the Raijuu jinchuuriki before?).
More info about Raijuu: Raiju is also depicted as the companion of Raiden, the Shinto god of lightning. While the demon is generally calm and harmless, during thunderstorms, it becomes agitated and leaps about in trees, fields, and even buildings (trees that have been struck by lightning are said to have been scratched by Raiju's claws).
Another of its peculiar behaviors is sleeping in human navels(being sealed in a person's stomach, a a jinchurriki?). This prompts Raiden to shoot arrows at Raiju to wake the creature up, thus harming the person in whose belly the demon is resting. Superstitious people therefore often sleep on their stomachs during bad weather. Other legends say that Raiju will only hide in the navels of people who sleep outdoors.

[Melchior]

So, let's see....

1 - Shuukaku - Tanuki - Sand
2 - ??
3 - Isonade - Shark - Water/Eating?
4 - ????
5 - ?????
6 - Raijuu - Weasel - Lightning
7 - ???????
8 - Orochi - Eight-headed Serpent - Destruction
9 - Kyuubi - Nine-Tailed Fox - Power/Stamina

Well, let's be lazy.... Jared, have you heard rumors on the other 4 demons? I always figured on Orochi, but I have never heard of any of the lesser tails before this thread.

So the Cloud probably has/had Raijuu sealed somewhere in it, at least if the names and abilities in the areas match up like they have so far....

Neat, I want to see the Cloud country. Wonder if they're as psycho as Mist seems to be....

[Corey Dreher]

It's possible that Orochimaru was descended from someone who was the snake demon's previous host, and after joining acquired it for himself, but I think that's reaching a bit myself.

In any event, your reasoning is why I also question the theory that Kisame is a jinchuuriki, unless of course he got it after capturing his assigned target. Hell, Akatsuki may not even be after all jinchuuriki, just the ones who aren't already members of their group. Their goal may be to create an organization of the greatest criminals ever, each with his own personal demon.


It could be possible that Kisame already got his Bijuu. He could be helping Itachi to get the weasel one or whatever.

I'm not totally sure, but I just thought I would post my thoughts.

[Corey Dreher]

Did I ever say that I personally believed this to be true? I simply presented the information I found, and noted some interesting correlations. There's evidence that Kakashi once killed a Jinchuuriki with Raikiri; doesn't mean it actually happened that way. What should be noted is that the manga-ka is taking things out of mythology, but he may not be using them in the way we expect.

Jeez, I didn't mean to strike a cord, just wanted to make a point.

[Corey Dreher]

Oh and where excatly on www.Narutofan.com are you finding all of this stuff at? I can't seem to find it :confused:

[NeoSapien]

I have to challenge you with this.

If Orchi is in fact has a bijuu, then why hasn't the Akatsuki going after him? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Akatsuki trying to collect Bijuus? And if one of their members who is very powerful mind you, fled the group, why wouldn't they go after him in seconds? I mean if Orchi has the second strongest Bijuu, then that could be a problem.

Not that your idea isn't good, but it has flaws. Orchi shows alot of signs of having a bijuu, but why wouldn't Itachi and the rest of them make it their number one thing they need to do is track Orchi down and get it back... unless they didn't know he had one... which could explain why he always has that snake