Naruto Manga/Anime Discussion Fun Thread!

[DaeJi]

I'm for anything that leads to Naruto finally kicking Sasuke's ass.

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

I really don't think it would make much sense. He finds out his brother gave everything to protect the village and his little brother so what does he do? Attack them? Thats kinda dumb.


So is the whole 'Itachi is now a missing-nin for doing our work' thing, but...eh...

[tipo4thesoul]

So is the whole 'Itachi is now a missing-nin for doing our work' thing, but...eh...

If you mandated that someone kill your entire neighborhood, every man woman and child, wouldn't you cover it up?

[Len Ikari145]

Spoilers apparently confirmed:

After some recollection of his memories with Itachi in the past, Sasuke tells Team Snake that they are going to be renamed Hawk, and their new mission from now on: The destruction of Konoha


Interesting, if this turns out to be true.

If this turns out to be true, my faith in Kishimoto will be minisculely restored.

[master of read]

If this turns out to be true, my faith in Kishimoto will be minisculely restored.

yep. kishimoto, you better not fudge this up like you been fudging up for the past 3 months.

[lokisedge]

I don't like it one bit, Sasuke is going to be hit by massive PIS when he fight Naruto again, suddenly he's going to forget half of the stuff he used in his previous fights and allow Naruto to beat him via Plot No jutsu aka Rasangan Bushin Feint at the last minute.
Sasuke could only defeat Orochimaru by sneak attacking him when he was at his death-bed.
He and Deidara fought evenly until Deidara blew himself up.
Sasuke only went toe to toe with Itachi because Itachi let him go toe to toe with him.Sasuke tricked and took over Orochimaru, he never killed him, he just overcame him, which is just as good.

Deidara would have died if Sasuke were serious and bloodlusted considering he has the elemental advantage and could have killed Dei with Kirin. Sasuke was holding back.

Itachi was exerting himself as much as Sasuke was, he wanted to hurt Sasuke as much as Sasuke wanted to hurt him despite him trying to lose on purpose.

And there's evidence that he took a lot of drugs to make him faster.There is no evidence. Because it was never a theory to begin with.

[lokisedge]

I don't like it one bit, Sasuke is going to be hit by massive PIS when he fight Naruto again, suddenly he's going to forget half of the stuff he used in his previous fights and allow Naruto to beat him via Plot No jutsu aka Rasangan Bushin Feint at the last minute.
Sasuke could only defeat Orochimaru by sneak attacking him when he was at his death-bed.
He and Deidara fought evenly until Deidara blew himself up.
Sasuke only went toe to toe with Itachi because Itachi let him go toe to toe with him.Sasuke tricked and took over Orochimaru, he never killed him, he just overcame him, which is just as good.

Deidara would have died if Sasuke were serious and bloodlusted considering he has the elemental advantage and could have killed Dei with Kirin. Sasuke was holding back.

Itachi was exerting himself as much as Sasuke was, he wanted to hurt Sasuke as much as Sasuke wanted to hurt him despite him trying to lose on purpose.

And there's evidence that he took a lot of drugs to make him faster.There is no evidence. Because it was never a theory to begin with.

[DaeJi]

I don't like it one bit, Sasuke is going to be hit by massive PIS when he fight Naruto again, suddenly he's going to forget half of the stuff he used in his previous fights and allow Naruto to beat him via Plot No jutsu aka Rasangan Bushin Feint at the last minute.

Sasuke needed his curse seal and Oro's powers in those fights, both of which he lost. And he only "defeated" Oro when he was on his death bed and "beat" Itachi when he was near blindness and gravely sick. Sasuke isn't some super-ninja. Not only that, Naruto is heading towards some serious power once he receives Jiraiya's scoll.

[master of read]

the new chapter is out!

and at last, no more "jerkface and friends." and we finally get back to naruto.

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

Sasuke needed his curse seal and Oro's powers in those fights, both of which he lost. And he only "defeated" Oro when he was on his death bed and "beat" Itachi when he was near blindness and gravely sick. Sasuke isn't some super-ninja. Not only that, Naruto is heading towards some serious power once he receives Jiraiya's scoll.

Itachi, even though he was sick and dying, was still fighting well above the level of 95% of the ninja in the Naruto-verse. And the rounds he and Sasuke fought before the Curse Seal were accessed were damn impressive. Certainly an example of just how overpowered a Genjutsu master can be.

Sasuke still has those Genjutsu (probably even more, now), and the people he'll be going up against aren't Uchiha Itachi. Someone who had the Super-Sharingan, was himself unmatched in Genjutsu, and knew the ins and outs of practically every technique Sasuke himself was using. Oh, and was a genius rivaled by maybe two or three people in mental ability.


Base form Sasuke also has the disctinction for largest amount of ninja taken out single-handedly, easily beating out the Yondaime's old school of 50. Fodder or not, beating so many ninja that their wrecked bodies stretch as far as the eye can see is incredible. Especially when you hardly tried, didn't get injured, and had the restraint not to kill any of them.


As for Deidara? Notice that Sasuke was perfectly capable of running rings around the guy, forcing him back and genuinely out-maneuvering him until he took to the sky. It was then that he had to rely on the Curse Seal, so he could get within range again.



Without the Curse Seal, Sasuke is still a superior ninja, with plenty of advanced techs, including Genjutsu on a level higher than we've seen outside of his brother, a newly-gained evolution of the Sharingan, and awesome physical stats. Yes, he's a super ninja.

[lokisedge]

the new chapter is out!

and at last, no more "jerkface and friends." and we finally get back to naruto.No we don't, we get back to Sasuke and Naruto.

Poor Sasuke, he was such a fun loving kid in those flashbacks, now look at him. He's about to sign his death warrent.

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

the new chapter is out!

and at last, no more "jerkface and friends." and we finally get back to naruto.

How do we know that? Several of the other issues had the 'and what are the others up to' captions, only for us to see Naruto and co for all of 3 pages if we were lucky!

Heck, most of this issue consisted of the same flashbacks we've been force-fed for months now. They could have easily cut them out, and gotten back to the real main character much quicker.


The caption about Naruto isn't even first! It once again takes second-place to speculation about Sasuke and his goals!

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

Incidentally, now that the pics are confirmed real...


Those are some funky eyes Sasuke is sporting. Makes me think he's a human disco-ball. Maybe he can disrupt a person's motor-skills just by looking at them. Or gives them horrific seizures like that Pokemon episode.

[master of read]

How do we know that? Several of the other issues had the 'and what are the others up to' captions, only for us to see Naruto and co for all of 3 pages if we were lucky!

Heck, most of this issue consisted of the same flashbacks we've been force-fed for months now. They could have easily cut them out, and gotten back to the real main character much quicker.


The caption about Naruto isn't even first! It once again takes second-place to speculation about Sasuke and his goals!

well at least naruto was somewhere in the chapter. its more than he;s gotten in past few months of this jerkface lovefest.

but i like villain sasuke, gives naruto a good reason beat the crap out of him for all that bull he's been pulling.

[lokisedge]

Incidentally, now that the pics are confirmed real...


Those are some funky eyes Sasuke is sporting. Makes me think he's a human disco-ball. Maybe he can disrupt a person's motor-skills just by looking at them. Or gives them horrific seizures like that Pokemon episode.They look like Atoms. Maybe he'll learn atomic bomb jutsu's that kill on the moleclear level?

[master of read]

Incidentally, now that the pics are confirmed real...


Those are some funky eyes Sasuke is sporting. Makes me think he's a human disco-ball. Maybe he can disrupt a person's motor-skills just by looking at them. Or gives them horrific seizures like that Pokemon episode.

I didnt know sasuke was jewish cause it looked like the star of david.

[Guy1]

Well, looks the big fight between Suigetsu and Kisame was skipped.
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/2779/16rj7.jpg

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

Well, looks the big fight between Suigetsu and Kisame was skipped.
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/2779/16rj7.jpg

We sure that's not just Zabuza's?

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

They look like Atoms. Maybe he'll learn atomic bomb jutsu's that kill on the moleclear level?

Well, they did set a precedent for him being able to see things down to a molecular level...

Maybe he'll be able to short-circuit someone by making key cells 'pop' in rapid order.

Microscopic Mange Vision, Hooooo!

*Hurk*

*Thud*

[Guy1]

We sure that's not just Zabuza's?

That's not my concern, what irritates me is this.
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/volume42big.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=47830
They were getting ready to fight, but everything was skipped over to show off the Uchiha's.

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

That's not my concern, what irritates me is this.
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/volume42big.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=47830
They were getting ready to fight, but everything was skipped over to show off the Uchiha's.

Oh yeah, that's about par for the course.



Incidentally, an old interview with Kishi was pulled up on Naruto Manga Returns, done before the Itachi and Sasuke thing started, wherein Kishi mentioned his writing plan for the year.

Apparently, aside from Sasuke, he plans on focusing on Kakashi and Sakura. When he was asked about Naruto, it was simply said 'Naruto will have to wait'.

[Guy1]

Oh yeah, that's about par for the course.



Incidentally, an old interview with Kishi was pulled up on Naruto Manga Returns, done before the Itachi and Sasuke thing started, wherein Kishi mentioned his writing plan for the year.

Apparently, aside from Sasuke, he plans on focusing on Kakashi and Sakura. When he was asked about Naruto, it was simply said 'Naruto will have to wait'.

Well, at least we're getting away from the Stu for a bit.

[master of read]

yep. i wonder what he will do with sakura.

[GrampaGen]

That's not my concern, what irritates me is this.
http://groups.msn.com/NarutoMangaReturns/volume42big.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=47830
They were getting ready to fight, but everything was skipped over to show off the Uchiha's.

It would have been a much better chapter if Sasuke exited the scene only to find Kisame standing over three decapitated corpses.

Well, no, not really. But dammit, were they just playing grabass outside of that building the whole friggin' time?! That ocean cliffside should've been rubble and a puddle.

[Ragnorok64]

Well this isn't taking any surprising turns. Though what kinda eyes did he just unlock? Atomic Sharingan?

[lokisedge]

yep. i wonder what he will do with sakura.Sasuke is not a Stu, he's very much flawed and human. This chapter confirms this.

[Lonewolf 5]

Just when I finally understand them crazy eyes they pull this.

[master of read]

Well this isn't taking any surprising turns. Though what kinda eyes did he just unlock? Atomic Sharingan?

i'm telling you, its the star of david. sasuke has unlocked the jew-ringan.

[Nik Hasta]

Excellent!

Sasuke has gone evil! Mwhahahahahaha!

This bodes well!

[master of read]

now that i've thought of it, as of now, both naruto and sasuke are on the same level. now bear with me.


sasuke went to orochimaru for power, not just because of his brother but because of his jealousy of naruto's rapid progression. during the fight at the VOTD, sasuke and naruto were just about equal until sasuke evolved to his full sharingan. but even then it was still too close to call.

now in part 2, sasuke has shown a overreliance on his CS and the jutsu that he got from absorbing orochi. thanks to itachi, sasuke no longer has either of these advantages. thus forcing him back to his own chakra and jutsu.

so here's where both of our boys stand:

naruto has his shadow clones and thanks to kakashi, has a new way of using them in battle to collect battle data as well as gain information.
his rasenshuriken which is still only half finished.
his summoning jutsu which he doesnt use very much but chances are that he will most likely inhert all of jiraiya's summons.
and of course, the scroll that the j-man left him.
now given that once naruto hears about his death, he will go thru his morning period and depression (with sakura hopefully comfronting him.), he will train harder than even to beat pein.

sasuke has of course his sharingan but he will have to take sometime off to train with his new eyes since he hasnt mastered them yet.
his fire ball and the multipul variations of it.
his chidori and chidori current.
and his kirin, which requires some set up to preform.

now factor in the fact that his mission is now to crush konoha, he wont go rushing the villages with only himself and hawk. he;ll most likely take some time off, gain allies, train his team and himself since he no longer has the power of the CS, prep for the battle. also factor in the fact that sasuke can suppress the kyubi and the fact that naruto is training to be less dependant on the demon's chakra.

interesting isnt it?

before fighting his brother, sasuke would;ve easily murdered naruto.

but now, they are more even ground. so by the time they finally have it out, it will all come down to their own growth as ninja.

[master of read]

Excellent!

Sasuke has gone evil! Mwhahahahahaha!

This bodes well!

madara: (dressed as the emperor) yes! sasuke, i can feel the hate flowing thru.

sasuke: (dressed as anakin) yes. my master.

madara: from this day forth, you shall be............DARTH JEWSUKE!!

sasuke: what is thy bidding, my master?

[asloveislost]

We sure that's not just Zabuza's?

Yeah it is Zabuzas but i think he was meaning that if they are there then all the fights are over...

[Dark Soul # 7]

Excellent!

Sasuke has gone evil! Mwhahahahahaha!

This bodes well!Not really, now he'll just be pwning good guys instead of bad guys.

Damn Kishimoto if Kisame is dead.

Good chapter, but I refuse to feel any sympathy for Sasuke if after hearing that story he wants to destroy Konoha. Seriously, get the guy laid or something. He needs to stop focusing on revenge for once. Get a vaccation.

[asloveislost]

Not really, now he'll just be pwning good guys instead of bad guys.

Damn Kishimoto if Kisame is dead.

Good chapter, but I refuse to feel any sympathy for Sasuke if after hearing that story he wants to destroy Konoha. Seriously, get the guy laid or something. He needs to stop focusing on revenge for once. Get a vaccation.

True, but still it's expected that his natural reaction to hearing that would be a want to destroy Konoha, he wanted to kill Itachi just because he thought the killing of his family was his own doing... knowing that he was ordered to do it by Konoha just means that his target has changed.

Emotions aside of course.

[tipo4thesoul]

I SO hate Sasuke's character...

Why would he want to destroy the village his brother gave everything to keep safe?

Big thumbs up on Itachi saying there is no next time and poking him. It was sweet.

[bluedmighty]

now that i've thought of it, as of now, both naruto and sasuke are on the same level. now bear with me.


sasuke went to orochimaru for power, not just because of his brother but because of his jealousy of naruto's rapid progression. during the fight at the VOTD, sasuke and naruto were just about equal until sasuke evolved to his full sharingan. but even then it was still too close to call.

I have to disagree.

Naruto was getting molly wopped before he whent to the red chakra.

Then he hulked out and started to wail on Sasuske.

Then sasuske whent full sharingan and started schoolin him agian.

Naruto had to be mortally wounded to draw on the fox's tailed form


now in part 2, sasuke has shown a overreliance on his CS and the jutsu that he got from absorbing orochi. thanks to itachi, sasuke no longer has either of these advantages. thus forcing him back to his own chakra and jutsu.

Not necessarily.

His first real teacher was the legendary copy ninja.

Orochimaru was never stated to have a bloodline limit (the only thing the Sharingan can't copy) so it is possible that Sasuke retained all of those jutsus.
He may have copied some of Kabutos medicle ninjutsu
He has the Justus that Itatchi gave him (Mongekyo, Amaterasu, Susanoao (sp))
A legendary blade (The sealing blade)
He's aslo been traveling with a former mist Ninja (copy some jutsu)
The crazy guy on team Hibi (sp) was the source of the cursed seal (walking power up)



so here's where both of our boys stand:

naruto has his shadow clones and thanks to kakashi, has a new way of using them in battle to collect battle data as well as gain information.
his rasenshuriken which is still only half finished.
his summoning jutsu which he doesnt use very much but chances are that he will most likely inhert all of jiraiya's summons.
and of course, the scroll that the j-man left him.
now given that once naruto hears about his death, he will go thru his morning period and depression (with sakura hopefully comfronting him.), he will train harder than even to beat pein.

All true.

But consider this, Sasuke has already demonstrated the ability to wade through the Mass shadow clone technique. At the end of they day they were "spit ball" effective. Untill the clones can actually fight they're only purposes are recon/misdirection/rasengan

The rasensharuken, as powerful as it is, still suffers from the same limitations as rasengan. it's a close combat manuever that requires power-up and delivery.
If Naruto had some sort of a speed boost (flash step) or something to boost his accuracy (eye technique) then it'd be a terrifying jutsu. But as is he's still likely to miss with it.

Not to mention the fact that it damages his body in the process
(bigger the jutsu bigger the risk)

The summoning Jutsu, in my opinion he should have been using this more.
We don't know if it's battle ready yet or how effective it'd be.


sasuke has of course his sharingan but he will have to take sometime off to train with his new eyes since he hasnt mastered them yet.
his fire ball and the multipul variations of it.
his chidori and chidori current.
and his kirin, which requires some set up to preform.

Add to that:

His Flame/Lightning sword that he used to cut into Orochimaru's room.
His teleportation summon substitution.
His Genjutsu, his Taijutsu, Ninjutsu, and bloodline limit (all of which surpass Naruto's natural ability) make him a BEAST


now factor in the fact that his mission is now to crush konoha, he wont go rushing the villages with only himself and hawk. he;ll most likely take some time off, gain allies, train his team and himself since he no longer has the power of the CS, prep for the battle. also factor in the fact that sasuke can suppress the kyubi and the fact that naruto is training to be less dependant on the demon's chakra.

All I know is,

Naruto's first obsticle is the completed Sharingan and everything that comes with it.
Then, his next obsticle would be the MS and everything that comes with it.



interesting isnt it?

before fighting his brother, sasuke would;ve easily murdered naruto.

but now, they are more even ground. so by the time they finally have it out, it will all come down to their own growth as ninja.

I hope my favorite number one knucle headed ninja's been drinking his Milk :biggrin:

[Sheldon]

Sasuke has Spirograph (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirograph) eyes now.

[MartinRedmond]

Sasuke doesn't exactly seem to be himself. And what will crushing Konoha accomplish? Aren't all the peeps responsible for the massacre dead? :( Itachi didn't have to kill his own clan. I admit this is begining to have jumps in logic.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Sasuke doesn't exactly seem to be himself. And what will crushing Konoha accomplish? Aren't all the peeps responsible for the massacre dead? :( Itachi didn't have to kill his own clan. I admit this is begining to have jumps in logic.Danzou and the two elders that ordered the massacre still live. So Sasuke could just kill them and be happy about it.

But no, he has to kill the entire village for something they know nothing about. Proof that he's a jerk. I kind of forsee a World War Hulk like affair coming.

[MartinRedmond]

But no, he has to kill the entire village for something they know nothing about. Proof that he's a jerk.

Or that he's mental. >:D

[Dark Soul # 7]

Or that he's mental. >:DI prefer to think that he's a jerk.:biggrin:

But seriously he's probably a bit of both.

[tipo4thesoul]

I don't even like the character....
I think that this plan is stupid too....

Arg to Naruto, two of my favorite characters dead, J-Man and Itachi and now this stupid story line.

At least they died like they should have.

[DaeJi]

This can only lead to one thing: Naruto kicking Sasuke's ass and hopefully everyone finally giving up on Sasuke.

[lokisedge]

This can only lead to one thing: Naruto kicking Sasuke's ass and hopefully everyone finally giving up on Sasuke.Sasuke hatred aside, I hope Sasuke becomes good in the end or something.

[DaeJi]

Sasuke hatred aside, I hope Sasuke becomes good in the end or something.

I think for that to happen he truly has to lose everything. Part of the reason I want to see Naruto beat him and for everyone to abandon him; only then do I think he will realize how badly he has screwed up his life. Then he could go on the road to not being such an assface.

[Daemon]

So is it just me or did jerkface just obtain some new previously unknown level of sharigan?

[xAgentx Iron Fist]

I think for that to happen he truly has to lose everything. Part of the reason I want to see Naruto beat him and for everyone to abandon him; only then do I think he will realize how badly he has screwed up his life. Then he could go on the road to not being such an assface.

Dude his brother KILLED his family because his COUNTRY told him to and you expect him to just live a happy life , he didnt screw up his life because he left konoha , his life was already screwed up when konoha told itachi to kill his family. sasuke was set to destroy konoha and no one can change that

NOTE: has anyone considered the fact that sasuke is being controlled by mardara
Reason , sasukes face is blank and his eyes , it might be his own manifestation of the mangyko sharingan or it might be a new jutsu so i could be wrong

[Totoro Man]

So is it just me or did jerkface just obtain some new previously unknown level of sharigan?

unfortunately, that appears to be true.

[Ghost]

So is it just me or did jerkface just obtain some new previously unknown level of sharigan?

Actually, I think it's just regular Mangekyo Sharingan. Apparently they can look different depending on the person.

[master of read]

Actually, I think it's just regular Mangekyo Sharingan. Apparently they can look different depending on the person.

the star of david MS.

[Ghost]

Excellent!

Sasuke has gone evil! Mwhahahahahaha!

This bodes well!

I totally called it.

And agreed. If nothing else, we're probably done with Sasuke for now and can focus on Naruto.

Or that he's mental. >:D

After that story session with Madara, I don't really blame him.

I think for that to happen he truly has to lose everything. Part of the reason I want to see Naruto beat him and for everyone to abandon him; only then do I think he will realize how badly he has screwed up his life. Then he could go on the road to not being such an assface.

Eh, being abandoned never turned anyone good. That would only make him more bitter and vengeful. What Sasuke needs is exactly what Naruto has been trying to give him all along: unconditional friendship and forgiveness. Probably delivered along with a punch in the face, but still...

Furthermore, he needs a reason to forgive Konoha for the giant mess that was the Uchiha massacre and aftermath. Most likely it all has something to do with Madara, which will allow Sasuke to shift his vengeance over to him.

the star of david MS.

You know, the hexagram isn't only a jewish symbol. It shows up in a lot of other cultures and religions as well, including Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism.

[Guy1]

I totally called it.

And agreed. If nothing else, we're probably done with Sasuke for now and can focus on Naruto.



After that story session with Madara, I don't really blame him.



Eh, being abandoned never turned anyone good. That would only make him more bitter and vengeful. What Sasuke needs is exactly what Naruto has been trying to give him all along: unconditional friendship and forgiveness. Probably delivered along with a punch in the face, but still...

Furthermore, he needs a reason to forgive Konoha for the giant mess that was the Uchiha massacre and aftermath. Most likely it all has something to do with Madara, which will allow Sasuke to shift his vengeance over to him.



You know, the hexagram isn't only a jewish symbol. It shows up in a lot of other cultures and religions as well, including Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism.

.......Buddhi-gan?

That....has an interesting ring to it.

[Hiromi]

This was like an anime episode in manga form, first 12 pages is stuff we've already seen and know about(filler), remaining couple of pages not much else happens, Jerkface is the villian now? Cool, I can go with that.

Much as i disliked this little several month long Jerkface diversion at least the story seems to be hauling itself back into a direction I can go with. Now how about we see some other characters?

[Daemon]

Actually, I think it's just regular Mangekyo Sharingan. Apparently they can look different depending on the person.

I dont think thats it since he's only supposed to have Mangekyo in his left eye.

This funky new eyehaxx appears to be in both his eyes.

[Hiromi]

I'm voting for artistic sillyness until I see them in action.

And yes I'm really just praying the Sharingan isnt being wanked to even higher levels.

[lokisedge]

I think for that to happen he truly has to lose everything. Part of the reason I want to see Naruto beat him and for everyone to abandon him; only then do I think he will realize how badly he has screwed up his life. Then he could go on the road to not being such an assface.He's lost his mind and his sense of morality. What more to you want him to lose?:confused: Naruto beating him up won't help anything, it would just make him more deranged. What Sasuke needs is a way to find out the truth about the Uchiha massacre. If Sasuke still wants to destroy the village then by all means let him. It's not like Sasuke's at fault here, Konoha did kill his family and clan.

Why are you guys calling him jerkface? And Sasuke's still going to be in the spotlight, this is the year of Sasuke. We have to find out why he's doing what he does.

[Guy1]

He's lost his mind and his sense of morality. What more to you want him to lose?:confused: Naruto beating him up won't help anything, it would just make him more deranged. What Sasuke needs is a way to find out the truth about the Uchiha massacre. If Sasuke still wants to destroy the village then by all means let him. It's not like Sasuke's at fault here, Konoha did kill his family and clan.

Why are you guys calling him jerkface? And Sasuke's still going to be in the spotlight, this is the year of Sasuke. We have to find out why he's doing what he does.

Not all of Konoha, it was the fault of Danzou and the elders.
They can go ahead and die.

[lokisedge]

You know Sasuke is very very complex for a cliche rival sterotype, for all his negative qualities, envy, arrogance and rage, I do not nor have I ever considered Sasuke an idiot. I remember a story that Chakotay told Captain Janeway, while making an alliance with the Borg. Chakotay told the story of a fox and a scorpion. A scorpion asked a fox to carry him across a river. The fox told him that if he did the scorpion would sting him. The scorpion answered back that if that happened, than they would both drown. Half way across the river the scorpion stings the fox. The fox asks, "Why would you do this, now we both will die" The scorpion answers, "I could not help it, it is my nature"

This is the nature of Uchiha Sasuke. This is not plot induced stupidity. This is the only life that he knows and keep in mind he failed in getting revenge against Itachi. Sure he is crying now, but imagine if Itachi somehow came back to life. Itachi still murdered Sasuke's parents. He probably would still try to kill Itachi.

Sasuke has discovered that Konoha is partially responsible for the death of his loved ones and he may even take the blame off of Itachi, transferring all his hatred towards Konoha. After all, his previous attempt at revenge was an utter failure. Itachi did not disappear with lightning. Itachi died sacrificing his life to save Sasuke. Madara has taken Sasuke's desire for revenge and redirected it. What you believe that all that Hatred that Sasuke has built over the last couple of years would simply vanish.

Sasuke knew that Orochimaru may take over his body and he still went there. He knew that Orochimaru murdered Sandaime. He knew that Orochimaru was a bad person, but he still did it. He later ends up betraying Orochimaru and no doubt he will try to backstab Madara as well. He knows that Madara had a hand in destroying his family.

Sasuke has always been a tool, but at the same time he is aware. He is probably thinking that Madara did release the Kyuubi and is probably just going along with it, either that or he is in denial, so that he can continue to pursue his nature.

This is the difference between Shikamaru and Sasuke. Shikamaru finished his revenge in less than a week. Sasuke has allowed it to become his entire life and all though most of us would like to believe that we would behave differently, the truth is we would most likely continue following our own natures.

Sasuke can be treacherous and perhaps he views Madara like Orochimaru, a means to an end only this time I believe Sasuke has made a grievous error. Madara is not Orochimaru. Madara is the Devil himself, there I said it. Sasuke will try to turn on Madara later on, but it will be too late. Madara has played all the right cards.

Imo Sasuke's revenge was more about Itachi's actual betrayal. I'm not saying the loss of his family wasn't part of it, but it should be obvious to anyone that the massacre would have affected him differently had the killer been someone other than his brother.

In the beginning of his fight with Itachi, Sasuke had a short flashback after Itachi said "...People live their lives bound by what they accept as correct and true. That's how they define "reality"...Like the way you believe I was a kind caring brother."

The last line in that quote really hit home with Sasuke. After Itachi says that Sasuke has visions the good times he and Itachi had together and when the next panels of Sasuke's face are shown you can see the pain those images brought up(this of course quickly turns to anger).

Even in he most recent chapter after all is said and done he is still thinking of Itachi and how things used to be.

Also, it should be noted that Sasuke is now targeting the source of the loss of his brother. Imo this is proof that Sasuke cares more about his brother than the rest of his family.

I can't seem to hate such a well written character. He's being the exact ideal rival character Kishimoto wanted him to be and greatest foil.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Also, it should be noted that Sasuke is now targeting the source of the loss of his brother. Imo this is proof that Sasuke cares more about his brother than the rest of his family.Actually he's targeting an entire village when only three people alive had a hand in forcing his brother into exile.
I can't seem to hate such a well written character. He's being the exact ideal rival character Kishimoto wanted him to be and greatest foil.We don't nessecarily hate him, some people here do but not all.

Personally I just think he deserves a punch or three in the face, and a Sakura-kick to the balls.

[lokisedge]

Actually he's targeting an entire village when only three people alive had a hand in forcing his brother into exile.
We don't nessecarily hate him, some people here do but not all.

Personally I just think he deserves a punch or three in the face, and a Sakura-kick to the balls.Sakura's not cool enough to kick Sasuke in the balls, and she's to generic as a character to change her feelings about Sasuke anyway.

Sasuke got punched in the face by naruto three times already, it's shown that no amount of injury will make Sasuke change his ways.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Sakura's not cool enough to kick Sasuke in the balls, and she's to generic as a character to change her feelings about Sasuke anyway.

Sasuke got punched in the face by naruto three times already, it's shown that no amount of injury will make Sasuke change his ways.And this is exactly why I don't like Sasuke fanboys. You guys all seem to completely lack any sense of humor when it comes to the character.

I partially joking! And I still think he needs an ass-kicking, doesn't have to change him anything, he just needs one.

Funny also that you didn't comment on the part about his cracked mind taking revenge on an entire village when only three pepole forced his brother to do what he did.

[lokisedge]

And this is exactly why I don't like Sasuke fanboys. You guys all seem to completely lack any sense of humor when it comes to the character.

I partially joking! And I still think he needs an ass-kicking, doesn't have to change him anything, he just needs one.

Funny also that you didn't comment on the part about his cracked mind taking revenge on an entire village when only three pepole forced his brother to do what he did.The humor on Sasuke is overdone, try making fun of someone else, Sasuke is like the only character who's the butt of the fandoms jokes.

We don't know what Sasuke is going to do yet, so just chill before saying he's going to wage war on Konoha. He might have been saying he would crush the three who killed his family.

[Alex L]

Danzou and the two elders that ordered the massacre still live. So Sasuke could just kill them and be happy about it.

But no, he has to kill the entire village for something they know nothing about. Proof that he's a jerk. I kind of forsee a World War Hulk like affair coming.

I'm not sure if he's planning to exterminate Konoha or just kill its leaders.

I'm voting for artistic sillyness until I see them in action.

And yes I'm really just praying the Sharingan isnt being wanked to even higher levels.

Atomic Sharingan?

That said, I can't imagine what it could do (other than a Sasuke optic blast).

[Totoro Man]

"destroy Konoha".

it sure sounds like he's going to try and wipe out the entire village. if all he had PLANNED was to simply murder the people that ordered his clan put to death-- he would have been a little bit more specific... I should think.

oh well, at least Sasuke's officially a villain now. anybody that wants to obliterate an entire village worth of people who've either done nothing wrong to him or know nothing about the wrongs commited against him and his clan...

pretty much makes him a bad guy.

[Ghost]

I dont think thats it since he's only supposed to have Mangekyo in his left eye.

This funky new eyehaxx appears to be in both his eyes.

Actually, Madara said Itachi just put the Amaterasu in his eye and set it to auto-kill him if he took his mask of.

Sasuke's own eyes are still his own Sharingan, capable of his own personal Mangekyo. It doesn't have anything to do with whatever Itachi did to him. At least that's the way I read it.

"destroy Konoha".

it sure sounds like he's going to try and wipe out the entire village. if all he had PLANNED was to simply murder the people that ordered his clan put to death-- he would have been a little bit more specific... I should think.

Why? He was upset, and when people are upset they tend to not bother with being literal and specific.

Sure, "destroy Konoha" can mean "let's whipe out the entire population Old Testament Style, burn every building, trample the foundations and sow salt on the ground."

But it can also mean: "Let's kill off the central government, sow strife among the clans and let the whole organization collapse on itself. Then maybe the survivors can piece together a new village that doesn't totally suck."

Seeing as Sasuke probably blames the inherent corruption of the system more then the village as a social community, I'm leaning towards the later.

Basically, he was really pissed off and felt like being dramatic. And saying something like: "This group has only one goal: assassinate those four or five bastards who are responsible of this mess!" just doesn't have the right ring to it.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Now I want Suigetsu to ask him if he means the entire village or just three council members.

[tipo4thesoul]

I want to know why Sasuke doesn't have to work for anything? Not nearly as hard as other characters....

1. Curse Seal=BAM extra strength
2. Sharigan=Nice jutsu, GOT IT. BAM BETTER THAN YOURS
3. Orochi=Hey, this guy knows a lot of Jutsus, BAM GOT THEM.
4. Itachi= O, I've been beaten. What? What was that? I get your flame that burns all, Illusion that kills all, Sword that destroys all AND Shield that blocks all. Why thank you.


"I have so much angst! Woe is me. I'm just not powerful enough. I should destroy my home village. (tear and crazy face)"

[Guy1]

I want to know why Sasuke doesn't have to work for anything? Not nearly as hard as other characters....

1. Curse Seal=BAM extra strength
Curse Seal 2=Sit on his butt in a barrel:rolleyes:
2. Sharigan=Nice jutsu, GOT IT. BAM BETTER THAN YOURS
3. Orochi=Hey, this guy knows a lot of Jutsus, BAM GOT THEM.
4. Itachi= O, I've been beaten. What? What was that? I get your flame that burns all, Illusion that kills all, Sword that destroys all AND Shield that blocks all. Why thank you.


"I have so much angst! Woe is me. I'm just not powerful enough. I should destroy my home village. (tear and crazy face)"

That's my real problem with Sasuke, he never had to work for any of the powerups he gets, and the few he does work for, were utter bullcrap.
Like Lee working his butt off his whole life to get to the level he was at.....and wankface gets it in a month.

[Spidey-kid1]

Sakura's not cool enough to kick Sasuke in the balls, and she's to generic as a character to change her feelings about Sasuke anyway.

Sasuke got punched in the face by naruto three times already, it's shown that no amount of injury will make Sasuke change his ways.
Are you kidding me? The girl has super strengh that puts narutos punches to shame. I'm sure shes stronger than both Naruto and Sasuke combined (lifting wise). What are some of Sasukes bigger strength feats that rival Sakuras?

I don't think he has any. Sakura is also more than cool enough the kick the dude in the balls (I realize that part was originally a joke, but if it happened, I'd cheer).

[Nick Soapdish]

He's lost his mind and his sense of morality. What more to you want him to lose?:confused: Naruto beating him up won't help anything, it would just make him more deranged. What Sasuke needs is a way to find out the truth about the Uchiha massacre. If Sasuke still wants to destroy the village then by all means let him. It's not like Sasuke's at fault here, Konoha did kill his family and clan.

Why are you guys calling him jerkface? And Sasuke's still going to be in the spotlight, this is the year of Sasuke. We have to find out why he's doing what he does.

Your next post answers your own question pretty well.

He's a very well-developed selfish jerk.

Sasuke is trying his best to prove that he only cares for the dead people in his life. IMO, he does care for others - at least the rest of Team 7, but he's been desperately trying to prove otherwise because it interferes with his desire for revenge against the people that he holds responsible for other people that he cares about.

And IMO, Sakura is also very well-developed. But she's developed from being a shallow and selfish fangirl to a tough, independent kunoichi that cares deeply about her teammates and will do anything for them. The desire to save people just doesn't seem as sexy as the revenge angle though.

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

Are you kidding me? The girl has super strengh that puts narutos punches to shame. I'm sure shes stronger than both Naruto and Sasuke combined (lifting wise). What are some of Sasukes bigger strength feats that rival Sakuras?

I don't think he has any. Sakura is also more than cool enough the kick the dude in the balls (I realize that part was originally a joke, but if it happened, I'd cheer).

Sakura's got more pure body strength than both Naruto and Sasuke combined, then multiplied many, many times. That's one thing Sasuke hasn't suddenly become a master of; WTF strength.

[master of read]

yep. even naruto said he really shouldnt piss sakura off after she punched the ground. naruto knows better.

but yeah, sakura has come a long way from how she was in part one. she really worked hard for her new skills and powers. not like some people i know.

[lokisedge]

Long ass reply....


I'm not sure if he's planning to exterminate Konoha or just kill its leaders.We have to wait to find out, the next chapter will tell us why he said this.

Atomic Sharingan?

That said, I can't imagine what it could do (other than a Sasuke optic blast).Total Ownage thats what.


"destroy Konoha".

it sure sounds like he's going to try and wipe out the entire village. if all he had PLANNED was to simply murder the people that ordered his clan put to death-- he would have been a little bit more specific... I should think.

oh well, at least Sasuke's officially a villain now. anybody that wants to obliterate an entire village worth of people who've either done nothing wrong to him or know nothing about the wrongs commited against him and his clan...

pretty much makes him a bad guy.If this is the case, this is pretty crappy writing from Kishi.

I want to know why Sasuke doesn't have to work for anything? Not nearly as hard as other characters....I'm sure Sasuke trains his ass off as much as anybody elses with his jutsu and doujutsu. The reason he seems to not to work as much as say Lee is because he's a genius who learns stuff faster than anyone else. Kishi said Sasuke was dull to teach because of his genius intellect in jutsu.

1. Curse Seal=BAM extra strength
2. Sharigan=Nice jutsu, GOT IT. BAM BETTER THAN YOURS
3. Orochi=Hey, this guy knows a lot of Jutsus, BAM GOT THEM.
4. Itachi= O, I've been beaten. What? What was that? I get your flame that burns all, Illusion that kills all, Sword that destroys all AND Shield that blocks all. Why thank you.1.Curse Seal= 90/100 death to any user, Sasuke and Anko are the only ones who have trained their body to handle the CS effects.
2.Sharigan is natural, it's his own birthright and power. copying jutsu is not bad at all, Kakashi does it. What should Sasuke be critized for using something thats his own genetic birthright?
3.It the ritual was miscaculated Sasuke would be dead.
4.Itachi only left him amerterasu, Sasuke had to unlock his own MS by himself, and that was due to him fighting Itachi so hard.

"I have so much angst! Woe is me. I'm just not powerful enough. I should destroy my home village. (tear and crazy face)"Suspension of disbelief and double standards. No one here has any legitmate arguement that involves Sasuke.

Are you kidding me? The girl has super strengh that puts narutos punches to shame. I'm sure shes stronger than both Naruto and Sasuke combined (lifting wise). What are some of Sasukes bigger strength feats that rival Sakuras?It's not raw super powered strength, it's just transfered Chakra and massive chakra control, Sasuke could slash her with his own modified Shunshin and call it a day. His strength is ninjutsu and speed, which compensates everything he lacks in strength. His biggest strength feat was Kirin which destroyed a mountain. Sakura just destroyed a puppet and a landscape, something Sasuke would do with Chidori lance and shunshin. Compared to Sasuke, Sakura is average and a clone.

That's my real problem with Sasuke, he never had to work for any of the powerups he gets, and the few he does work for, were utter bullcrap.
Like Lee working his butt off his whole life to get to the level he was at.....and wankface gets it in a month.If you truly believe Sasuke doesn't train and work hard, then I truly think your hatred for Sasuke make it seem your in denial. Sasuke is a genius, Sasuke modfied and innovated Raition abilites with his own elemental recomposition and created a big ass thunder strike and one hit kill Jutsu. What has Lee done?

I don't think he has any. Sakura is also more than cool enough the kick the dude in the balls (I realize that part was originally a joke, but if it happened, I'd cheer).No Sakura isn't cool, she's a copy of Tsunade and Ino. And she's too much of a fangirl to hurt her Sasuke koon.

Your next post answers your own question pretty well.

He's a very well-developed selfish jerk.I wouldn't call him a jerk, I'd call him a pure example of relativism and idividualism. I like that.

Sasuke is trying his best to prove that he only cares for the dead people in his life. IMO, he does care for others - at least the rest of Team 7, but he's been desperately trying to prove otherwise because it interferes with his desire for revenge against the people that he holds responsible for other people that he cares about.I agree, Sasuke is simply misguided but holds on to principles he truly cares about.

And IMO, Sakura is also very well-developed. But she's developed from being a shallow and selfish fangirl to a tough, independent kunoichi that cares deeply about her teammates and will do anything for them. The desire to save people just doesn't seem as sexy as the revenge angle though.Sakura has been the same as ever, only she can heal people. I haven't seen her do a single independant thing after the Sasori arc, she had be saved by Sai, saved by Yamato, and had been useless when she was trying to subdue Sasuke. She's playing the damsel in distress role again.

Sakura's got more pure body strength than both Naruto and Sasuke combined, then multiplied many, many times. That's one thing Sasuke hasn't suddenly become a master of; WTF strength.It's not pure body strength, it's concentrated chakra in her fists and feet. She has little chakra, while Naruto and Sasuke have tons of it. The only thing she out does them both in is chakra control, even that doesn't apply to Sasuke anymore, since he's been shown to conserve his chakra when he's using CS or the Sharigan(see the Deidara fight). And Sakura's medical ninja, of course she's going to have super strength, Kabuto is stronger than her.

yep. even naruto said he really shouldnt piss sakura off after she punched the ground. naruto knows better.Naruto's crush on Sakura chan restricts him from caving her big forhead in with rasangan. He could stop Sakura's punches if he wanted to.

but yeah, sakura has come a long way from how she was in part one. she really worked hard for her new skills and powers. not like some people i know.She worked hard, but she's still mediorce to Sasuke and Naruto. Who not only works hard, but invents his own jutsu with lighting and thunder and improves his sealing speed. While Naruto works with his bushins and has to control the Kyuubi's chakra(which is far more harder). Sakura just copied Tsunades jutsu. It's debateble if Hinata's stronger than her, since she's Sakura's worse enemy in chakra.

[Ghost]

I want to know why Sasuke doesn't have to work for anything? Not nearly as hard as other characters....

Basically, because he's designed to be the polar opposite of Naruto.

You know, the guy who has to work his ass of whenever he wants to learn anything new and mostly only pulls through on sheer bloody mindedness and desparation?

Yeah, it's totally unfair, but it's supposed to be.

We have to wait to find out, the next chapter will tell us why he said this.

I rather doubt that: something tells me the focus will move away from Sasuke now. But like you said, we'll just have to wait and see.

[Guy1]

Basically, because he's designed to be the polar opposite of Naruto.

You know, the guy who has to work his ass of whenever he wants to learn anything new and mostly only pulls through on sheer bloody mindedness and desparation?

Yeah, it's totally unfair, but it's supposed to be.



I rather doubt that: something tells me the focus will move away from Sasuke now. But like you said, we'll just have to wait and see.

I'm really hoping he's trying to dupe Madara.

I mean, I'm not a big fan of the guy, but even Sasuke should be smarter then to trust Madara.

[Ghost]

I'm really hoping he's trying to dupe Madara.

I mean, I'm not a big fan of the guy, but even Sasuke should be smarter then to trust Madara.

I partially agree. If nothing else, you'd think being the victim of a major conspiracy and life-long manipulation by Itachi would make him incredibly paranoid about this sort of thing. ^^;

I don't doubt he really believes that Itatchi was a good guy, though. The last chapter kinda hammered that in. But there's nothing that says declaring war on Konoha and doubting Madara's honesty in general are mutually exclusive.

What I mean is, there's a difference between believing in what Madara says and actually trusting him.

[Guy1]

I partially agree. If nothing else, you'd think being the victim of a major conspiracy and life-long manipulation by Itachi would make him incredibly paranoid about this sort of thing. ^^;

I don't doubt he really believes that Itatchi was a good guy, though. The last chapter kinda hammered that in. But there's nothing that says declaring war on Konoha and doubting Madara's honesty in general are mutually exclusive.

What I mean is, there's a difference between believing in what Madara says and actually trusting him.

Yeah, if Orochimaru showed us anything, it's that Sasuke will get rid of you if he thinks your just in the way/expendable/no use to him. However, being Madara, it's likely he's anticipated this.


Things should be very interesting from now on.

[lokisedge]

Basically, because he's designed to be the polar opposite of Naruto.

You know, the guy who has to work his ass of whenever he wants to learn anything new and mostly only pulls through on sheer bloody mindedness and desparation?

Yeah, it's totally unfair, but it's supposed to be.Excuse me, Naruto does not work hard. Has a Kage Bunshin Training Method that lets him train 20 years in a week

So... where's the hard work there?

He has to cheat to get greater results with his skills.

As far as Lee goes, for a guy who can't use ninjutsu, or genjutsu, his skills are still simply amazing. His ability to open gates, which lol Tenten, and even Neji, haven't shown the ability to do dispite training with Gai, speaks for itself. For a guy who was able to open 5/8 gates, at 14 only one short of what Gai (late 20s) has been shown to do, I would say that Lee's hard work will more then pay off. It's just that we haven't really got to see him in action all that much lately. Figure the guy wooped the crap out of Sasuke, with out any effort, was supposed to woop on Neji in the chunin exams, but never got the chance, and almost beat Gaara, loosing only by a little bit. By the time he reaches his early 20s, he will be a taijutsu god, and will probablly surpass Gai by that point, who is an elite Jounin.

[master of read]

Excuse me, Naruto does not work hard. Has a Kage Bunshin Training Method that lets him train 20 years in a week

So... where's the hard work there?

He has to cheat to get greater results with his skills.

As far as Lee goes, for a guy who can't use ninjutsu, or genjutsu, his skills are still simply amazing. His ability to open gates, which lol Tenten, and even Neji, haven't shown the ability to do dispite training with Gai, speaks for itself. For a guy who was able to open 5/8 gates, at 14 only one short of what Gai (late 20s) has been shown to do, I would say that Lee's hard work will more then pay off. It's just that we haven't really got to see him in action all that much lately. Figure the guy wooped the crap out of Sasuke, with out any effort, was supposed to woop on Neji in the chunin exams, but never got the chance, and almost beat Gaara, loosing only by a little bit. By the time he reaches his early 20s, he will be a taijutsu god, and will probablly surpass Gai by that point, who is an elite Jounin.


i know you arent talking about cheating. he didnt start using the shadow clone method until kakashi showed him. and kakashi only told him cause, you know, sasuke cheated his way to surpass him. remember? he wasnt getting powerful fast enough so he cut away his ties to get a jump start with CS?

compared to both naruto and lee, sasuke is a light weight when it comes to hardcore training.

[lokisedge]

i know you arent talking about cheating. he didnt start using the shadow clone method until kakashi showed him. and kakashi only told him cause, you know, sasuke cheated his way to surpass him. remember? he wasnt getting powerful fast enough so he cut away his ties to get a jump start with CS?

compared to both naruto and lee, sasuke is a light weight when it comes to hardcore training.It still doesn't disprove what I said, Naruto is barely a hard worker compared to Gai and Lee. He shortcuts as much as Sasuke does, he used the Kyuubi chakra to summon and use Rasangan back in part 1. At least Sasuke learned Chidori with Sharigan in a shorter time and thats legit. Sasuke had the CS because he needed the chakra to escape from the village. Besides, CS is harder to control. No Naruto needed the Kage Bushin training because Sasuke is just better than him and raw natural talent.

Sasuke doesn't need hardcore training because he's good at training his body, mind and ability due to his talent. He's just that damn good, Naruto however, needs a fox to compete with Sasuke.

[master of read]

It still doesn't disprove what I said, Naruto is barely a hard worker compared to Gai and Lee. He shortcuts as much as Sasuke does, he used the Kyuubi chakra to summon and use Rasangan back in part 1. At least Sasuke learned Chidori with Sharigan in a shorter time and thats legit. Sasuke had the CS because he needed the chakra to escape from the village. Besides, CS is harder to control. No Naruto needed the Kage Bushin training because Sasuke is just better than him and raw natural talent.

Sasuke doesn't need hardcore training because he's good at training his body, mind and ability due to his talent. He's just that damn good, Naruto however, needs a fox to compete with Sasuke.

shows what you know. naruto only used kyuubi chakra for the rasengan once in part 1. the rest was on his own.

and bull on the CS being harder to control. the only thing sasuke needed control on was the seal kakashi placed on it.

and where was that all natural talent when the sound 4 made the offer? so instead of working hard with his village, he basically shit on his friends and home for more power. how the hell is that working hard? that's the biggest short cut ever! where was all that so called natural talent and genius? i mean, if he was so much better than naruto, he wouldnt have needed to go CS level 2, even if naruto was using the kyubi's power. cause like you just said, sasuke is so much better than naruto.

and btw, about his clone training. naruto hasnt once wanted to use the fox's chakra during that training. he, unlike sasuke, didnt want to rely on another power source.

come on. you are just making yourself look silly with each post.

[lokisedge]

shows what you know. naruto only used kyuubi chakra for the rasengan once in part 1. the rest was on his own.Hmm, with his cheat KB training, he needed Kyuubi's chakra for the Odama Rasangan and the FRS, Sasuke didn't need the CS for his chidori enhancements and abilties. He trained by himself, to use stuff like Chidori nagashi, Kirin, Mace, and Lance without any teachers, Naruto needed Teachers like Jiraya, Kakashi and etc to do these uber rasangans and shit.

and bull on the CS being harder to control. the only thing sasuke needed control on was the seal kakashi placed on it. Sakon said it was vital to need the CS2 if Sasuke ever wanted to control the CS.

and where was that all natural talent when the sound 4 made the offer? so instead of working hard with his village, he basically shit on his friends and home for more power. how the hell is that working hard? that's the biggest short cut ever! where was all that so called natural talent and genius? i mean, if he was so much better than naruto, he wouldnt have needed to go CS level 2, even if naruto was using the kyubi's power. cause like you just said, sasuke is so much better than naruto.This genius was already blooming with talent and skill before he met the sound four, the problem is, he wasn't progressing any faster wih what he had, which led him to seek out power. Sasuke got stright a in the acdemy when he was 8 years old. the noumber one rookie of the class and a part of the Uchiha clan's rise to power. All his life he had to train by himself and use what he had to be the top dog, it was then when naruto showed up with a fox which nobody could defeat Sasuke had the disadvantage. Naruto had a Bijuu, a Sanin trainer, and a summon. Sasuke only had katons and chidori. It was not fair.

and btw, about his clone training. naruto hasnt once wanted to use the fox's chakra during that training. he, unlike sasuke, didnt want to rely on another power source. And unlike Naruto, Sasuke didn't rely on any teachers over the post skip since he taught himself all the jutsu he knows(sharigan and raiton) and some forbidden techinques from orochimaru. Naruto uses the Kyuubi's chakra.

come on. you are just making yourself look silly with each post.No I'm pretty dead on, just read the manga.

[master of read]

Hmm, with his cheat KB training, he needed Kyuubi's chakra for the Odama Rasangan and the FRS, Sasuke didn't need the CS for his chidori enhancements and abilties. He trained by himself, to use stuff like Chidori nagashi, Kirin, Mace, and Lance without any teachers, Naruto needed Teachers like Jiraya, Kakashi and etc to do these uber rasangans and shit.

Sakon said it was vital to need the CS2 if Sasuke ever wanted to control the CS.

This genius was already blooming with talent and skill before he met the sound four, the problem is, he wasn't progressing any faster wih what he had, which led him to seek out power. Sasuke got stright a in the acdemy when he was 8 years old. the noumber one rookie of the class and a part of the Uchiha clan's rise to power. All his life he had to train by himself and use what he had to be the top dog, it was then when naruto showed up with a fox which nobody could defeat Sasuke had the disadvantage. Naruto had a Bijuu, a Sanin trainer, and a summon. Sasuke only had katons and chidori. It was not fair.

And unlike Naruto, Sasuke didn't rely on any teachers over the post skip since he taught himself all the jutsu he knows(sharigan and raiton) and some forbidden techinques from orochimaru. Naruto uses the Kyuubi's chakra.

No I'm pretty dead on, just read the manga.

so when sasuke does it, its natural talent.

and when naruto does it, its cheating.

yep. you are gonna have great time here, just like the last sasuke fanboys.

[Spidey-kid1]

It's not raw super powered strength, it's just transfered Chakra and massive chakra control, Sasuke could slash her with his own modified Shunshin and call it a day. His strength is ninjutsu and speed, which compensates everything he lacks in strength. His biggest strength feat was Kirin which destroyed a mountain. Sakura just destroyed a puppet and a landscape, something Sasuke would do with Chidori lance and shunshin. Compared to Sasuke, Sakura is average and a clone.

It's not pure body strength, it's concentrated chakra in her fists and feet. She has little chakra, while Naruto and Sasuke have tons of it. The only thing she out does them both in is chakra control, even that doesn't apply to Sasuke anymore, since he's been shown to conserve his chakra when he's using CS or the Sharigan(see the Deidara fight). And Sakura's medical ninja, of course she's going to have super strength, Kabuto is stronger than her.
Wasn't Kirin the lightning attack? What does that have to do with strength at all?

Also, even if the strength is the result of chakra (can anyone else confirm this? I don't remember anything about this), its still one of the only things Sakura uses her Chakra for. Its a standard power for her, unlike Sasuke, meaning she still wins in Strength.

[lokisedge]

so when sasuke does it, its natural talent.

and when naruto does it, its cheating.

yep. you are gonna have great time here, just like the last sasuke fanboys.When Sasuke trains, it's hinted he's a pro because of his talent.

When Naruto trains, it's hinted he needs a bunch of help and assitanct due to his lack of skill.

[GrampaGen]

Hmm, with his cheat KB training, he needed Kyuubi's chakra for the Odama Rasangan and the FRS, Sasuke didn't need the CS for his chidori enhancements and abilties. He trained by himself, to use stuff like Chidori nagashi, Kirin, Mace, and Lance without any teachers, Naruto needed Teachers like Jiraya, Kakashi and etc to do these uber rasangans and shit.

Naruto didn't use Kyuubi chakra for that last burst of training. It's been stated numerous times that even without the fox, his natural chakra reserves are obscenely high.

I don't like foxboy either, but you're selling him short. He only learned all one technique from this 'cheat training'.


This genius was already blooming with talent and skill before he met the sound four, the problem is, he wasn't progressing any faster wih what he had, which led him to seek out power. Sasuke got stright a in the acdemy when he was 8 years old. the noumber one rookie of the class and a part of the Uchiha clan's rise to power. All his life he had to train by himself and use what he had to be the top dog, it was then when naruto showed up with a fox which nobody could defeat Sasuke had the disadvantage. Naruto had a Bijuu, a Sanin trainer, and a summon. Sasuke only had katons and chidori. It was not fair.

He had been trained by Itachi and his father, copied Lee's Taijutsu, and Kakashi's Chidori. Later on he acquired a Sannin trainer that actually taught him something.

Naruto had Iruka, and all Jiraiya taught him was the rasengan, summoning and Chakra Spam.

No, I'd say it's obvious the both of them had teachers, and Sasuke had a richer background in training,


And unlike Naruto, Sasuke didn't rely on any teachers over the post skip since he taught himself all the jutsu he knows(sharigan and raiton) and some forbidden techinques from orochimaru. Naruto uses the Kyuubi's chakra.

I think you're only giving him the benefit of the doubt because Sasuke's training was strictly off-panel. But as it is, one can infer that yes, Orochimaru had a hand in teaching him.

[Len Ikari145]

shows what you know. naruto only used kyuubi chakra for the rasengan once in part 1. the rest was on his own.

and bull on the CS being harder to control. the only thing sasuke needed control on was the seal kakashi placed on it.

and where was that all natural talent when the sound 4 made the offer? so instead of working hard with his village, he basically shit on his friends and home for more power. how the hell is that working hard? that's the biggest short cut ever! where was all that so called natural talent and genius? i mean, if he was so much better than naruto, he wouldnt have needed to go CS level 2, even if naruto was using the kyubi's power. cause like you just said, sasuke is so much better than naruto.

and btw, about his clone training. naruto hasnt once wanted to use the fox's chakra during that training. he, unlike sasuke, didnt want to rely on another power source.

come on. you are just making yourself look silly with each post.

I laughed when he said the CS takes more control than the Kyuubi. The CS is controlled by Sasuke's own will (and we see how "strong-willed" he was during his second fight with Gaara), whereas Naruto has to struggle to keep the Fox at bay or he'll take over his consciousness because of the gradual eroding of the seal. The only thing that made it "difficult" was that it ate up his chakra to maintain the power boost, and that detriment has "mysteriously" disappeared in Post-time skip and he was even given a nice healing factor to boot.:rolleyes:

So which is more difficult to handle: An evil seal that can be controlled by your own will, that gives you a nifty (yet artificial) power boost, or a tenacious godlike entity that while it endows you with power, is slowly starting to usurp your mind while causing your body to deteriorate on a cellular level?

Hmmm.

[Len Ikari145]

shows what you know. naruto only used kyuubi chakra for the rasengan once in part 1. the rest was on his own.

and bull on the CS being harder to control. the only thing sasuke needed control on was the seal kakashi placed on it.

and where was that all natural talent when the sound 4 made the offer? so instead of working hard with his village, he basically shit on his friends and home for more power. how the hell is that working hard? that's the biggest short cut ever! where was all that so called natural talent and genius? i mean, if he was so much better than naruto, he wouldnt have needed to go CS level 2, even if naruto was using the kyubi's power. cause like you just said, sasuke is so much better than naruto.

and btw, about his clone training. naruto hasnt once wanted to use the fox's chakra during that training. he, unlike sasuke, didnt want to rely on another power source.

come on. you are just making yourself look silly with each post.

I laughed when he said the CS takes more control than the Kyuubi. The CS is controlled by Sasuke's own will (and we see how "strong-willed" he was during his second fight with Gaara), whereas Naruto has to struggle to keep the Fox at bay or he'll take over his consciousness because of the gradual eroding of the seal. The only thing that made it "difficult" was that it ate up his chakra to maintain the power boost, and that detriment has "mysteriously" disappeared in Post-time skip and he was even given a nice healing factor to boot.:rolleyes:

So which is more difficult to handle: An evil seal that can be controlled by your own will, that gives you a nifty (yet artificial) power boost, or a tenacious godlike entity that while it endows you with power, is slowly starting to usurp your mind while causing your body to deteriorate on a cellular level?

Hmmm.

[asloveislost]

Wasn't Kirin the lightning attack? What does that have to do with strength at all?

Also, even if the strength is the result of chakra (can anyone else confirm this? I don't remember anything about this), its still one of the only things Sakura uses her Chakra for. Its a standard power for her, unlike Sasuke, meaning she still wins in Strength.

Yeah she focuses her chakra into her arms and hands and that gives her the power... Tsunade gave her lessons on it...

Also chill people it's called manga... its just the way it's written...

Sasuke is meant to be stronger at the moment, it's the only reasonable way Naruto will be able to motivate himself to become stronger... because the way he's written... sheesh hes really determined, but not very skilled.. he needs the extra nudge.

[asloveislost]

Wasn't Kirin the lightning attack? What does that have to do with strength at all?

Also, even if the strength is the result of chakra (can anyone else confirm this? I don't remember anything about this), its still one of the only things Sakura uses her Chakra for. Its a standard power for her, unlike Sasuke, meaning she still wins in Strength.

Yeah she focuses her chakra into her arms and hands and that gives her the power... Tsunade gave her lessons on it...

Also chill people it's called manga... its just the way it's written...

Sasuke is meant to be stronger at the moment, it's the only reasonable way Naruto will be able to motivate himself to become stronger... because the way he's written... sheesh hes really determined, but not very skilled.. he needs the extra nudge.

[Dark Soul # 7]

How can one say that Naruto doesn't work. After each and every one of his mass clone training, where he's focusing on NOT using the kyuubi chakra, he's more or less wiped himself out. Splitting his chakra up into a something between 100 and 1000 clones and then have all of them work their asses of isn't exactly a picnic or anything. Sure he gets the results much faster but he also feels the exhaustion his clones feel once they've faded away.

And no way is the CS2 even remotely as hard to control as the Kyuubi chakra.
The CS2 gives you a chakra boost and drains you somewhat, so does the kyuubi.
The kyuubi also burns away your skin at the same time as it constantly heals it, slowly shortens your life and has the downside of having a freaking evil force of nature trying to take over your mind.When Sasuke trains, it's hinted he's a pro because of his talent.

When Naruto trains, it's hinted he needs a bunch of help and assitanct due to his lack of skill.What? Naruto's weak because he needs help to not lose control of the evil being inside of him when he trains his ass of?

And yeah, he sucks at the basics of ninjutsu. But he can be pretty damn creative. It was him alone who figured out how to combine spatial recomposition and elemental chakra.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Lots of phantom posts here, this may be yet one more.

[lokisedge]

Naruto didn't use Kyuubi chakra for that last burst of training. It's been stated numerous times that even without the fox, his natural chakra reserves are obscenely high.

I don't like foxboy either, but you're selling him short. He only learned all one technique from this 'cheat training'.It was said, Kyuubi's chakra was leaking into Naruto's base chakra over his childhood giving him unnatural high chakra unnoticibly.

If Naruto never had the fox, he would have never had a high chakra reserve. His cheat training gave him a hold on the regualar rasangan and FRS.

He had been trained by Itachi and his father, copied Lee's Taijutsu, and Kakashi's Chidori. Later on he acquired a Sannin trainer that actually taught him something.He was never trained by Fugaku, he had to learn the grand fire ball technique by himself and that was because he father showed him what the jutsu did.

I doubt he copied Lee's taijutsu, at least the Lotus style. Kakashi said he copied the Range of Lee and his speed. Sasuke had the falcon drop taijutsu style way before he met Lee. I agree he trained with Kakashi and Oro and copied their jutsu's. But the rest, was all him.


I think you're only giving him the benefit of the doubt because Sasuke's training was strictly off-panel. But as it is, one can infer that yes, Orochimaru had a hand in teaching him.I'm just going by what I'm seeing.

I laughed when he said the CS takes more control than the Kyuubi. The CS is controlled by Sasuke's own will (and we see how "strong-willed" he was during his second fight with Gaara), whereas Naruto has to struggle to keep the Fox at bay or he'll take over his consciousness because of the gradual eroding of the seal. The only thing that made it "difficult" was that it ate up his chakra to maintain the power boost, and that detriment has "mysteriously" disappeared in Post-time skip and he was even given a nice healing factor to boot.The CS drains your Chakra reserves and hidden reserves until it kills you, Kyuubi heals you and grants you unlimited chakra and stamina. Sasuke had worser control over the CS more than Naruto had control over the Kyuubi in Part 1. I think the CS and the Kyuubi are on par in losing control mentally, CS gives you a blind rage and Oro's control over you, and Kyuubi kills you in the inside out by unlocking a monster combined with poisionus red chakra that rips your skin off.

So which is more difficult to handle: An evil seal that can be controlled by your own will, that gives you a nifty (yet artificial) power boost, or a tenacious godlike entity that while it endows you with power, is slowly starting to usurp your mind while causing your body to deteriorate on a cellular level?Wrong it's an evil seal that drains your life force intensely and gives you uncontrolable pain and killer intent.

Wasn't Kirin the lightning attack? What does that have to do with strength at all?Kirin is a S-Class Raiton technique from Sasuke's own elemental mastery of lighting and a intense nature manipulation that must power from the user that controls it. It's Sasuke's own strength because he has to direct it and mold it with power from his own raiton source.

Also, even if the strength is the result of chakra (can anyone else confirm this? I don't remember anything about this), its still one of the only things Sakura uses her Chakra for. Its a standard power for her, unlike Sasuke, meaning she still wins in Strength.I doubt her standard chakra could match Sasuke since he's strong enough to create thunder strikes with no chakra and problems. Controling the weather patterns > Smashing.

[lokisedge]

How can one say that Naruto doesn't work. After each and every one of his mass clone training, where he's focusing on NOT using the kyuubi chakra, he's more or less wiped himself out. Splitting his chakra up into a something between 100 and 1000 clones and then have all of them work their asses of isn't exactly a picnic or anything. Sure he gets the results much faster but he also feels the exhaustion his clones feel once they've faded away.

And no way is the CS2 even remotely as hard to control as the Kyuubi chakra.
The CS2 gives you a chakra boost and drains you somewhat, so does the kyuubi.
The kyuubi also burns away your skin at the same time as it constantly heals it, slowly shortens your life and has the downside of having a freaking evil force of nature trying to take over your mind.What? Naruto's weak because he needs help to not lose control of the evil being inside of him when he trains his ass of?

And yeah, he sucks at the basics of ninjutsu. But he can be pretty damn creative. It was him alone who figured out how to combine spatial recomposition and elemental chakra.Usually, trying hard during 1 day to 1 week shouldn't be counted as true hard work. Would you say training intensively for one week using a training method that increases your strength by a lot be more work as getting up early everyday, training almost all the time? Yes. Naruto has tried hard this few weeks. But in only these few weeks, Naruto already becomes much stronger than he was a few weeks ago while Lee has to train everyday and it would take him twenty years of training to just get how much training Naruto has gotten in a week.

The stamina? Kyuubi. The Kyuubi has unlimited Stamina. It makes it well known that Naruto wouldn't have been nearly as energetic and hyperactive if he had no stamina which the Kyuubi seems to leak to him unnoticibly.

MS can control the Kyuubi. I think it can also help naruto as well.

[Dark Soul # 7]

With the Kirin Sasuke just heats up the atmosphere creating a rising air current to generate a massive thundercloud. This is because he himself could never generate the needed amount of chakra for the attack.

He then uses the chidori to direct attack. Nothing more.

It's an incredibly smart way to create an extremely powerful attack that most ninjas would be killed by. But Sasuke only directs the power. He doesn't generate it by himself.

[Dark Soul # 7]

Usually, trying hard during 1 day to 1 week shouldn't be counted as true hard work. Would you say training intensively for one week using a training method that increases your strength by a lot be more work as getting up early everyday, training almost all the time? Yes. Naruto has tried hard this few weeks. But in only these few weeks, Naruto already becomes much stronger than he was a few weeks ago while Lee has to train everyday and it would take him twenty years of training to just get how much training Naruto has gotten in a week.Yeah, so what? It's still not cheating, it's a way to use his unique advantaged as a ninja tofuther progress his training. And like I said, he still feels the exhaustion from all those clones heaped onto him once he's finished training.

I'm not saying that he's better than Lee or anything, I didn't even mention Lee. My point is that if you're not going to call Sasuke a cheater in training you can't really call Naruto a cheater in training.
The stamina? Kyuubi. The Kyuubi has unlimited Stamina. It makes it well known that Naruto wouldn't have been nearly as energetic and hyperactive if he had no stamina which the Kyuubi seems to leak to him unnoticibly.He's hyper because that's the way he is. Has very little to do with the kyuubi. And in exchange for this stamina, which he only gets when accessing the kyuubi powers, he is slowly draining away at his life.
MS can control the Kyuubi. I think it can also help naruto as well.What does that have to do with anything? If you're referign to Kakashi's MS he hasn't used it in suck a way.

[lokisedge]

With the Kirin Sasuke just heats up the atmosphere creating a rising air current to generate a massive thundercloud. This is because he himself could never generate the needed amount of chakra for the attack.

He then uses the chidori to direct attack. Nothing more.

It's an incredibly smart way to create an extremely powerful attack that most ninjas would be killed by. But Sasuke only directs the power. He doesn't generate it by himself.If Sasuke has no chakra left, yet he's strong enough to recompose the thunder and shape of the lighting, that means he's got a bunch of raiton based extensions on his body which means any muscle on him can gernerate chidori or trigger chidori in conclusion, Sasuke could direct the lighting with his own strength.

Kirin requires no chakra, if there was a cloudy area were it's about to rain, Sasuke could still fire off Kirin. Sasuke used the last of his chakra to summon to clouds, but he can still control and recompose the size of his attack with his own strength and elemental recomposition.


Yeah, so what? It's still not cheating, it's a way to use his unique advantaged as a ninja tofuther progress his training. And like I said, he still feels the exhaustion from all those clones heaped onto him once he's finished training.It is training, it's a fast method to reach your potenial without any problems. It's Naruto's Sharigan. Naruto has to be like Sasuke, in order to be stronger. It's a shame, while Lee is pure hard work.

I'm not saying that he's better than Lee or anything, I didn't even mention Lee. My point is that if you're not going to call Sasuke a cheater in training you can't really call Naruto a cheater in training.Both of them cheat, Lee does not. Well at least Sasuke was born good and talented.

He's hyper because that's the way he is. Has very little to do with the kyuubi. And in exchange for this stamina, which he only gets when accessing the kyuubi powers, he is slowly draining away at his life.He's hyper because he's got a demon inside of him. He's confident because he knows he can't die with the Kyuubi helping him out. Naruto can't die because the Kyuubi would die with him. It's proven that Kyuubi's chakra leaks in naruto.

[Dark Soul # 7]

If Sasuke has no chakra left, yet he's strong enough to recompose the thunder and shape of the lighting, that means he's got a bunch of raiton based extensions on his body which means any muscle on him can gernerate chidori or trigger chidori in conclusion, Sasuke could direct the lighting with his own strength.

Kirin requires no chakra, if there was a cloudy area were it's about to rain, Sasuke could still fire off Kirin. Sasuke used the last of his chakra to summon to clouds, but he can still control and recompose the size of his attack with his own strength and elemental recomposition.Sasuke doesn't control the lightning blast all that much. He basically just aims it and lets it at somebody.
It is training, it's a fast method to reach your potenial without any problems. It's Naruto's Sharigan. Naruto has to be like Sasuke, in order to be stronger. It's a shame, while Lee is pure hard work.Fair enough
Both of them cheat, Lee does not. Well at least Sasuke was born good and talented.And that makes him less fun.
He's hyper because he's got a demon inside of him. He's confident because he knows he can't die with the Kyuubi helping him out. Naruto can't die because the Kyuubi would die with him. It's proven that Kyuubi's chakra leaks in naruto.His hyper because that's the way he is. Not because of the Kyuubi.

And the whoel point of Naruto's clone training is to be less reliant on the kyuubi chakra.

[lokisedge]

Sasuke doesn't control the lightning blast all that much. He basically just aims it and lets it at somebody.That=Controling. Sasuke controls the blast of the jutsu(using raiton to guide the lighting) and directs it to the target. Sasuke=Zeus. Thats strength.
His hyper because that's the way he is. Not because of the Kyuubi.

And the whoel point of Naruto's clone training is to be less reliant on the kyuubi chakra.I doubt it, he's hyper because of his up bringing and Kyuubi friend. I mean if Kyuubi wasn't so evil, he be just like Naruto.

Naruto's clone training was thought up by kakashi because Sasuke was far ahead of him in skill. Not to be less reliant on the Kyuubi.

[Guy1]

That's my real problem with Sasuke, he never had to work for any of the powerups he gets, and the few he does work for, were utter bullcrap.
Like Lee working his butt off his whole life to get to the level he was at.....and wankface gets it in a month.

There's also his latest powerup, which again, he didn't have to work for and just got handed to him.:rolleyes:

[Ghost]

Excuse me, Naruto does not work hard. Has a Kage Bunshin Training Method that lets him train 20 years in a week

So... where's the hard work there?

He has to cheat to get greater results with his skills.

Sure, but he still has to work for his cheating. He and his clones has to stand in a waterfal for days and try to control his chakra while making sure he doesn't fox out and generally struggle to figure it all out.

Compare this to Sasuke, who's hax-training basically amounts to looking at someone performing the jutsu he wants to learn.

They both cheat, but unlike Sasuke, Naruto isn't a natural born cheater. :tongue:

Furthermore, Naruto has only used his clone trick one time to date and he's only known about it for, what, about a week? Sasuke has had the Sharingan since the first encounter with Orochimaru, way back during the chuunin exams in part 1. And even before then, he was pointed out to be a freaking genius while Naruto was more or less considered a lost cause by his instructors.

I'm not trying to deminish Sasuke's accomplisments, I'm just saying he's supposed to be the kind of character who learns by talent while Naruto is the kind of character who learns by tenacity.

That=Controling. Sasuke controls the blast of the jutsu(using raiton to guide the lighting) and directs it to the target. Sasuke=Zeus. Thats strength.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. Sasuke called down a large bolt of lightning, which is impressive, but I'm fairly sure Zeus' divine thunderbolt did crazy stuff like blow the tips of mountains and burn whole landscapes into glass. (He also used a mountain as a thrown weapon at least once, and was more or less considered stronger then all the other gods put together.)

I love Kirin myself, probably my favourite Narutoverse technique to date. But comparing Sasuke to Zeus is a major exaggeration.

[Dark Soul # 7]

That=Controling. Sasuke controls the blast of the jutsu(using raiton to guide the lighting) and directs it to the target. Sasuke=Zeus. Thats strength.Oh that's what you meant. In that case it's a limited control. He can only point the blast in one direction before it goes of. It's not like he can do anything else with it.
I doubt it, he's hyper because of his up bringing and Kyuubi friend. I mean if Kyuubi wasn't so evil, he be just like Naruto.What manga have you been reading? That's exactly why he's so hyper. He's spent most of his life trying to get the attention of everyone so that they wouldn't treat ignore him and only talk about him behind his back.
Naruto's clone training was thought up by kakashi because Sasuke was far ahead of him in skill. Not to be less reliant on the Kyuubi.Actually it's both, how much has he used the kyuubi chakra sicne he started the clone training? Not once, at least not on purprose.

[Guy1]

Sure, but he still has to work for his cheating. He and his clones has to stand in a waterfal for days and try to control his chakra while making sure he doesn't fox out and generally struggle to figure it all out.

Compare this to Sasuke, who's hax-training basically amounts to looking at someone performing the jutsu he wants to learn.

They both cheat, but unlike Sasuke, Naruto isn't a natural born cheater. :tongue:

Furthermore, Naruto has only used his clone trick one time to date and he's only known about it for, what, about a week? Sasuke has had the Sharingan since the first encounter with Orochimaru, way back during the chuunin exams in part 1. And even before then, he was pointed out to be a freaking genius while Naruto was more or less considered a lost cause by his instructors.

I'm not trying to deminish Sasuke's accomplisments, I'm just saying he's supposed to be the kind of character who learns by talent while Naruto is the kind of character who learns by tenacity.


You know, if Naruto's teachers actually bothered getting off their a$$es and tried teaching the guy for real, Naruto would have been a freaking beast.

Unfortunately, none of them bothered, not even Jiraya.

Lazy bum.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Yeah, how does that work, exactly?

Naruto's mass clone learning is basically him focusing on a situation in hundreds of different bodies.

In comparison, Sasuke only has to look at someone's attack to copy it. That requires neither effort or skill and unlike Naruto, Sasuke's eyes allow him to understand the basics of any attack directed at him. That's how he beat Deidara, because he knew the guy's attacks were earth based.

If there's a cheater, it's Sasuke easy.

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

You know, if Naruto's teachers actually bothered getting off their a$$es and tried teaching the guy for real, Naruto would have been a freaking beast.

Unfortunately, none of them bothered, not even Jiraya.

Lazy bum.

Well, it's like someone once said when I pointed out Jiraiya had already trained a couple nobodies into wrecker ninja in a number of a few years (Pein and co) back in the day, and thus should have been able to turn Naruto (a guy who had more chakra reserves in his childhood than anyone below a Kage, and freaky stamina, and a healing ability) into an unrivaled combatant.


His response?

"It wouldn't have had any suspense if his training had logically played out, and Naruto was running around punting Kages sans-Kyuubi."


But I disagree. Watching the reactions of other hidden villages when they realize the whirlwind of fists and jutsu that just demolished their town was actually two people that had been rumbling for three days straight (and already destroyed two different hidden villages on the way there) would have put me in suspense for the further reactions of everyone watching Sasuke and Naruto's rumble.


*Itachi and Kisame watch from the cliffside*

"Kisame-san, we may have to interrupt them, and take-"

"#%@ you. I like myself the way I am. Not covered in buises and lying broken on the ground."

*Sigh* "You suck, Kisame-san."

[lokisedge]

Yeah, how does that work, exactly?

Naruto's mass clone learning is basically him focusing on a situation in hundreds of different bodies.

In comparison, Sasuke only has to look at someone's attack to copy it. That requires neither effort or skill and unlike Naruto, Sasuke's eyes allow him to understand the basics of any attack directed at him. That's how he beat Deidara, because he knew the guy's attacks were earth based.

If there's a cheater, it's Sasuke easy.Your joking, copying seals and hand signals takes skill and work. Sasuke has to train his body to use the Sharigan otherwise it would drain his chakra and deplete his stamina. He's not born good, he had to train like anyone else to use the doujutsu. He beat Deidara because he had to come up with a theroy with Deidara's bombs and attacks, and he used his brain not the sharigan to figue out Deidara was a douton user. He just used the sharigan to see the colors and the mines.

Naruto has to focus a bunch of clones and preform jutsu with a shred of his chakra in them, thats cheating.

Oh that's what you meant. In that case it's a limited control. He can only point the blast in one direction before it goes of. It's not like he can do anything else with it.He can recompose Kirn to be more versitile in form, and since it was a dragon he can make it travel around.

[Guy1]

Well, it's like someone once said when I pointed out Jiraiya had already trained a couple nobodies into wrecker ninja in a number of a few years (Pein and co) back in the day, and thus should have been able to turn Naruto (a guy who had more chakra reserves in his childhood than anyone below a Kage, and freaky stamina, and a healing ability) into an unrivaled combatant.


His response?

"It wouldn't have had any suspense if his training had logically played out, and Naruto was running around punting Kages sans-Kyuubi."


But I disagree. Watching the reactions of other hidden villages when they realize the whirlwind of fists and jutsu that just demolished their town was actually two people that had been rumbling for three days straight (and already destroyed two different hidden villages on the way there) would have put me in suspense for the further reactions of everyone watching Sasuke and Naruto's rumble.



And instead, we're stuck with the Uchiha Show.

[Ghost]

You know, if Naruto's teachers actually bothered getting off their a$$es and tried teaching the guy for real, Naruto would have been a freaking beast.

Unfortunately, none of them bothered, not even Jiraya.

Lazy bum.

It's really Jiraya's fault. Dude had all the time in the world to work with the kid but didn't teach him anything of particular value.

It's one of the few examples of sloppy writing I do aknowledge in Naruto.

Yeah, how does that work, exactly?

Naruto's mass clone learning is basically him focusing on a situation in hundreds of different bodies.

In comparison, Sasuke only has to look at someone's attack to copy it. That requires neither effort or skill and unlike Naruto, Sasuke's eyes allow him to understand the basics of any attack directed at him. That's how he beat Deidara, because he knew the guy's attacks were earth based.

If there's a cheater, it's Sasuke easy.

I honestly don't like throwing around words like "cheater" in this context. It makes it sound as if there is something dishonerable about these methods and causes unnecessary conflicts within the discussion.

The fact is that the main characters in Shounen can't afford to spend years of their lives training to master a single technique, so they need shortcuts. It happens all the time.

What people seem to have reacted to is that Sasuke gained a lot more strenght then everyone else with a lot less work over-all, and has pretty much kept that advantage throughout part 2.

Personally, I think it makes sense since A) he was that kind of character all along and B) he turned antagonist, and antagonists tend to be more powerful then the protagonists to invoke suspense. But somehow this seems to really have upset a lot of people for some reason that I honestly can't quite figure out.

[Spidey-kid1]

Your joking, copying seals and hand signals takes skill and work. Sasuke has to train his body to use the Sharigan otherwise it would drain his chakra and deplete his stamina. He's not born good, he had to train like anyone else to use the doujutsu.

Naruto has to focus a bunch of clones and preform jutsu with a shred of his chakra in them, thats cheating.

Naruto has only used that once for one attack. He's worked long and hard for everything else, including his vast chakra supply. And even then, it was his own idea to do that and its still him training for it. Sasukes learned a few hand signals.So what? So has every other ninja in the naruto universe.

Sasuke has used his sharingan to copy all kinds of skills and techniques and has had most of his powers handed to him.

Personally, I think it makes sense since A) he was that kind of character all along and B) he turned antagonist, and antagonists tend to be more powerful then the protagonists to invoke suspense. But somehow this seems to really have upset a lot of people for some reason that I honestly can't quite figure out.I doesn't really bother me, but I feel the need to back up Naruto.

But when you put it the way you did in your post, it doesn't really bother me. It actually makes sense. Thanks for that tidbit.

[Guy1]

Naruto has only used that once for one attack. He's worked long and hard for everything else, including his vast chakra supply. And even then, it was his own idea to do that and its still him training for it. Sasukes learned a few hand signals.So what? So has every other ninja in the naruto universe.

Sasuke has used his sharingan to copy all kinds of skills and techniques and has had most of his powers handed to him.

Yep, that's pretty much it.

[Guy1]

Aaaaaannnnnnyyyyyy way, getting off the Sasuke topic, who here thinks J-Man had an awesome death?

I for one, am really looking forward to seeing Pein in action again.

[lokisedge]

Naruto has only used that once for one attack. He's worked long and hard for everything else, including his vast chakra supply. And even then, it was his own idea to do that and its still him training for it. Sasukes learned a few hand signals.So what? So has every other ninja in the naruto universe.

Sasuke has used his sharingan to copy all kinds of skills and techniques and has had most of his powers handed to him.

I doesn't really bother me, but I feel the need to back up Naruto.

But when you put it the way you did in your post, it doesn't really bother me. It actually makes sense. Thanks for that tidbit.Firstly, Naruto didn't earn the Kyuubi, he got it from his dad. Second, he stole his first trump card, while Sasuke inherited his trump card by birth. All his skills are someone elses own hard work and talent. Sure he works for them, but to say he earns them are totally false, his powers come from his dad and his teacher, while Sasuke's powers are clan inherited and natural. And your underestimating hand signals, not everyone can seal and lock into a jutsu as fast as Sasuke can.

Sasuke only used the Sharigan to copy Lee and Kakashi's chidori, he hasn't used that abilty since then, he (with his own talent and abilty) created innovations and extensions of Raiton and his own sharigan techniques with shunshin and genjutsu.

Naruto was spoonfed his own innovative skills.

What people seem to have reacted to is that Sasuke gained a lot more strenght then everyone else with a lot less work over-all, and has pretty much kept that advantage throughout part 2. Um, because he's a genius. And hard work isn't very hard to him since he's a fast learner.

[Spidey-kid1]

Aaaaaannnnnnyyyyyy way, getting off the Sasuke topic, who here thinks J-Man had an awesome death?

I for one, am really looking forward to seeing Pein in action again.

J-man had one of the most awesome deaths I've seen in fiction. No joke. It was freakin epic, but kind of pissed me off. Dude was one of my favorite characters in this show but they killed him off. I'm looking forward to Narutos reaction when he finds out and looking forward to Piens butt kicking.

[Guy1]

J-man had one of the most awesome deaths I've seen in fiction. No joke. It was freakin epic, but kind of pissed me off. Dude was one of my favorite characters in this show but they killed him off. I'm looking forward to Narutos reaction when he finds out and looking forward to Piens butt kicking.

I still have to ask how the hell he's going to beat Pein though.

His "That Jutsu" better be freaking good if he's going to survive.

[Ghost]

I doesn't really bother me, but I feel the need to back up Naruto.

But when you put it the way you did in your post, it doesn't really bother me. It actually makes sense. Thanks for that tidbit.

See, wanting Naruto to kick more ass is completely understandable. I want to see that too. I just don't think it's right to take it out on Sasuke for being who he is and playing his given role in the story.

Aaaaaannnnnnyyyyyy way, getting off the Sasuke topic, who here thinks J-Man had an awesome death?

I for one, am really looking forward to seeing Pein in action again.

Oh yeah. Pein is awesome, and Naruto vs Pein is going to rock the world.

And I still want to know what the Rin'egan really does, dammit.

[Guy1]

See, wanting to see Naruto kicks ass is completely understandable. I want to see that too. I just don't think it's right to take it out on Sasuke for being who he is and playing his given role in the story.



Oh yeah. Pein is awesome, and Naruto vs Pein is going to rock the world.

And I still want to know what the Rin'egan really does, dammit.

Given the number of bodies he has, it probably has something to do with possession.

I tossed the theory out earlier that 'Pein' might be a spirit controlling these bodies, but I'm not really sure about it.

[lokisedge]

Sharigan > Rinnegan. Naruto vs. Sasuke 2 will be the pinnicle of this manga.

[Guy1]

Sharigan > Rinnegan. Naruto vs. Sasuke 2 will be the pinnicle of this manga.

Eh, we can't say for sure given that we haven't seen Pein really use the Rinnegan.

[lokisedge]

It doesnt matter, He's not the main villain, madara or Sasuke is. I could care less about Pein, he's a real cheater and more emo than Sasuke.

[Spidey-kid1]

Firstly, Naruto didn't earn the Kyuubi, he got it from his dad. Second, he stole his first trump card, while Sasuke inherited his trump card by birth. All his skills are someone elses own hard work and talent. Sure he works for them, but to say he earns them are totally false, his powers come from his dad and his teacher, while Sasuke's powers are clan inherited and natural. And your underestimating hand signals, not everyone can seal and lock into a jutsu as fast as Sasuke can.I'm not talking about the Kyubbi. Naruto has his own insane chakra supply which was acknowledged by Kakashi himself. That is without the Kyubbi.

And Naruto does earn his powers. He worked for all of his techniques, which Sasuke, once again, mostly got handed to him by someone else.

And every character in the Naruto universe who's a ninja besides Lee and maybe Gai, do hand signals. Its nothing big.

Sasuke only used the Sharigan to copy Lee and Kakashi's chidori, he hasn't used that abilty since then, he (with his own talent and abilty) created innovations and extensions of Raiton and his own sharigan techniques with shunshin and genjutsu.

Naruto was spoonfed his own innovative skills. He also used it to gain insane reflexes in his fight with Haku. Not to mentsion that triple lion strike or whatever he took and copied from Lee. And those power ups he gained with it are all huge things that he bases his power around (chidori, speed, etc...).

And even if Naruto was "spoonfed" some techniques, at least they weren't handed to him.

I still have to ask how the hell he's going to beat Pein though.

His "That Jutsu" better be freaking good if he's going to survive.God, this fight is going to be epic. I'm looking forward to it.

[Spidey-kid1]

It doesnt matter, He's not the main villain, madara or Sasuke is. I could care less about Pein, he's a real cheater and more emo than Sasuke.You don't know if Sasuke is the main bad guy of the series. He hasn't killed anyone important yet and only declared himself evil this current chapter. As of now, Pien is the most powerful and evil person in this series, Rivaled only by Mandra. We all know things will come down to Sasuke vs Mandara and Naruto vs Pien so saying Sasuke is the main bad guy is purly speculation.

And as Guy said, Rinnegan hasn't even been in action yet so sharingan>>>>>>>rinnegan is also purely speculation.

[Guy1]

And every character in the Naruto universe who's a ninja besides Lee and maybe Gai, do hand signals. Its nothing big.

God, this fight is going to be epic. I'm looking forward to it.

I don't recall Tenten doing many hand signals.

And yes, Naruto vs Pein is going to be awesome.

[Guy1]

And now to lighten things up,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2UHllWuQVo
Naruto Abridged.