What would be *your* take on Superman?

[666MasterOfPuppets]

How would you write him? Like a god? Like an alien? More "Super"? Or more "Man"?

[lonewolf23k]

Basically, a little of everything. Mostly inspired by the Silver Age. Basically, Superman is an honest, hard-working man who's trying to make the world a better place, one good deed at a time. It just so happens that he's also the world's mightiest superheroes, which lets him do good deeds of much greater impact.

I'd definetly take away the "Dark Brooding" routine that's been added to Superman as of late. Superman don't brood. Sure, he can have some doubts and the occasional low-mood, but he just deals with it, instead of spending whole issues brooding over a problem.

Power-wise, I see him as powerful, but not god-like. He'd certainly not have trouble with your common, low-level criminal thug, but he'd have to work at defeating larger-scale threats like giant monsters or alien invasions. And he'd definetly have to sweat to outsmart Luthor and his evil scemes..

[stealthwise]

I'd put him everywhere except for Metropolis, and showcase what a global hero and icon Superman actually is. I'm not sure what kind of idiotic criminals run around Superman's city and try to commit crimes, but I think that those types of stories are boring as sin at this point. I'd love to see more Superman tales where he's fighting the robots, the supernatural, and a ton of other crazy crap, all over the world. Where he's inspiring people in Asia, Africa, South America, and other planets too. The concept of the character is so grand in scope that I'd love to see more writers make use of Superman as the huge type of character he is.

The guy maintains too lives, saves thousands of others and manages to keep it all in perspective. How? That's the question I would want to explore.

[Ned Leeds]

More "Man". Even though he is alien, he's been raised by humans. Enviroment plays a huge role in the development of your personality. So even though he is from krypton and has super powers, I think Superman would think of himself (and think like) a human first, and a very decent one at that. The Kents raised him to be a good and responsible human being, not some Godlike protector.

[lonewolf23k]

More "Man". Even though he is alien, he's been raised by humans. Enviroment plays a huge role the development of your personality. So even though he is from krypton and has super powers, I think Superman would think of himself (and think like) a human first, and a very decent one at that. The Kents raised him to be a good and responsible human being, not some Godlike protector.

I agree on that point. But at the same time, his kryptonian heritage should be important to him, if only because, as the last living kryptonian, it's duty to keep it's memory alive in some way.

...Mind you, I'd rather use the Birthright/Silver Age version of Krypton for this behavior, rather then the cold "deserves to get blown up" version Byrne made.

[Sean Whitmore]

I would mix the best of the Silver Age and Modern takes on Superman.

"Superman" doesn't exist, that's just the name Clark calls himself to keep his powers a secret. None of this "Kal-el is the real person crap" (I know that's the original characterization of the character, but so what? Batman used to shoot people). No speaking Kryptonian or using exclamations like "Great Rao!"

So character-wise, I'm channeling John Byrne, Jeph Loeb, Geoff Johns.

On the other hand, the situations I'd have him get into are strictly out of this world. No Prankster or Toyman or Intergang...Superman deals with living meteors and gods and evil aliens and cosmic happenstance. Luthor can stay a businessman on the outside, but inside he's pure mad scientist.


SEAN

[Goldenbane]

I would move Superman from solely operating in Metropolis and have him adventure all over the world. I agree with the statement that Superman should be more of a world icon than just America...but at the same time I wouldn't have him CONSTANTLY out of town. Metropolis is still Clark's home...and Clark needs to have moments out of that blue and red suit and live a normal life.

I would also DEMAND that Superman be more limited in what he can and can not do. For example, Superman would be one of the strongest super heroes in DC...but certain characters like Doomsday will be stronger. Superman will have super speed...but characters that base their whole identity around being fast (ala Flash, Quicksilver, ect) will always be faster than Superman and be able to pull off a lot more stunts that he just can't do. Superman will be able to fly REALLY fast, but a few characters would still be faster (like Green Lantern...who regularly needs to fly the length of the universe...Superman does not...so flying "3000 times light speed!!" is just ridiculous.) I'm not saying that Superman needs to come in 2nd in every category...but I do think that it needs to be defined that other individuals are better in a single category than Superman. Doomsday or the Hulk might be a good deal stronger than Superman, but thier whole power set comes from being strong and invulnerable...Superman still has the required strength and other powers to hang with or defeat these characters...but he should not automatically be stronger than them just because....he's Superman.

I'd create MEGA upgrades to Superman's enemies list. Fighting generic monsters and robots is great...but he really does need more enemies that can tangle with him head to head. No offense, but if Lex Luthor slipped up ONCE...and Superman was given the a-ok by the law to bring in Luthor via any means nesessary...Lex has no chance at all! Sure, DC could think up some "prep time" plot device to allow Luthor to escape, but realistically...Superman would obliterate him physically and truthfully should be powerful enough and smart enough to defeat any traps Luthor tries to come up with (he's been doing it for like 70 years now...being able to legally go after Luthor would just finally make it all worth it.) While Doomsday was able to go at it with Superman for a few years...it seems like he would be better off fighting the Hulk than Superman...Doomsday just doesn't have the right flavor that Superman needs to deal with. Superman needs a foe that can handle his large variety of powers and really bring it to him on a mano-mano level. Characters like Toyman never impressed me...and had that "I'm a Batman villain" flavor rather than Superman.

I'd have Superman, as Clark Kent, struggle with more daily life routines. Does Lois want a baby? What about that mega hard story that Perry wants him to write...something that Clark needs to interview normal people for...and he can't just turn to his super buddies to give him all the answers? How about Jimmy Olson? That new girl he's been seeing isn't some super threat to the world at large...nor is she a criminal...but she's not a very nice person at all, and poor Jimmy just can't see that she's abusing him. How about that new reporter than keeps telling everyone she wants to marry Superman? Lois is certainly getting jealous and while Clark has zero interest, it is causing friction between him and his wife. These are the kinds of problems that Clark needs...stuff that only he can handle...not big bad Superman all the time.

[kane]

Superman will have super speed...but characters that base their whole identity around being fast (ala Flash, Quicksilver, ect) will always be faster than Superman and be able to pull off a lot more stunts that he just can't do. Superman will be able to fly REALLY fast, but a few characters would still be faster (like Green Lantern...who regularly needs to fly the length of the universe...Superman does not...so flying "3000 times light speed!!" is just ridiculous.)

You know that Flash is faster and that Superman is not able to move and fly at the speed of light, so GL can really fly faster in space, don´t you?
We are talking about the post-crisis superman who is weak in comparison to the godlike pre-crisis superman. MM for example is as strong and fast as Superman and more powerful due to his others telepathic and shapeshifting powers, Cap. marvel is as srong as Superman etc.

[GUTB]

1. Establish a framework of range and scale of powers, and do not deviate from this model.

2. Superman jobs to NOBODY. He may lose occasionally, but only in such a manner that cannot be described as jobbing.

3. Superman never questions himself. He is always correct in his viepoints and policies, or at least he believes himself to be.

4. Superman will shed Lois, Metropolis, the Kents, and most of his civilian identity.

5. Under some dire circumstances, Superman will kill.

6. Superman is above all street-level crime fighting. He won't even bother aprehending these criminals if they are not overtly threatening public saftey.

7. Superman will involve himself in some itnernational affairs. He will not tolerate wars, genocide, or other overtly evil goverment actions.

8. Superman will not directly involve himself in personal injustices, but may ask other superheroes to intervene.

9. Superman will occasionally feel the need to speak and, and will be listened to.

10. Superman is not a god, but compared to 99.99% of everyone else he might as well be; Superman's cape will not be tugged on without severe consequences.

[Ned Leeds]

1. Establish a framework of range and scale of powers, and do not deviate from this model.

2. Superman jobs to NOBODY. He may lose occasionally, but only in such a manner that cannot be described as jobbing.

3. Superman never questions himself. He is always correct in his viepoints and policies, or at least he believes himself to be.

4. Superman will shed Lois, Metropolis, the Kents, and most of his civilian identity.

5. Under some dire circumstances, Superman will kill.

6. Superman is above all street-level crime fighting. He won't even bother aprehending these criminals if they are not overtly threatening public saftey.

7. Superman will involve himself in some itnernational affairs. He will not tolerate wars, genocide, or other overtly evil goverment actions.

8. Superman will not directly involve himself in personal injustices, but may ask other superheroes to intervene.

9. Superman will occasionally feel the need to speak and, and will be listened to.

10. Superman is not a god, but compared to 99.99% of everyone else he might as well be; Superman's cape will not be tugged on without severe consequences.

So, you want Superman to be the Bush administration? :D

[Goldenbane]

You know that Flash is faster and that Superman is not able to move and fly at the speed of light, so GL can really fly faster in space, don´t you?
We are talking about the post-crisis superman who is weak in comparison to the godlike pre-crisis superman. MM for example is as strong and fast as Superman and more powerful due to his others telepathic and shapeshifting powers, Cap. marvel is as srong as Superman etc.

Perhaps I hang out at the rumble boards too much. We had a discussion on Thor Vs. Superman...a fight that I could see going either way as long as there's no true writer bias. Instead the pro-Superman posters had the man of steel vibrating through Thor and blowing him up, running around him and sucking all the air out of his lungs, flying so fast that Thor couldn't even get to think before Superman hit him 9000 times, connecting with the speed force to create light speed force fields to block any attack Thor actually might get off, ect. All this sounded suspiciously like feats Flash would pull off...but many posters pointed out to "one time" comics that Superman also pulled stuff like this off. Sometimes I get to wondering what some of the rumble fans...and writers that allow characters to pull stupid stuff like this...smoke

[Super Hero Guy]

Superman, in my opinion, has to be just what his name says, a super man. He should show everyone in the world what they should be like morally, but he is not a god. He has faults, hhe has doubts. But in the end, he is a always a farm boy with a sense of what's good and what's wrong, who just can't handle having super powers and not using them to bring peace.

Personally, I'd like to kind to really change superman's abilities. He should be the greatest of all superheroes, but only at doing what's humanly possible. He should be stronger than all other heroes, have a perfect physique, he should be near imvulnerable, but not cmompletely. He can leap skyscrapes in a single bound. He can easily survive harsh environments for a certain amount of time(i.e space). I'd make him the second fastest person on earth, because I don't think it would be fair to Flash. He'd have super breathe, but not ice breathe. All of his senses will be hightened, so much so that it could be said that it's psychic ability. He would not have x-ray or heat vision. He wouldn't be super intelligent, but he would be able to automatically understand any concept explained to him. And I might take away flight, as superman didn't originally have that power, but I'm not sure whether I would because that's like Supes icon power.

Now, as for the origin, I like the idea that he slowly absorbs sunlight throughout his life, so there would be no Superboy CLark Kent. In fact, I'd prefer there be no superboy at all, or SUpergirl, woman, dog, horse, whatever. The only Krytonians other than Kal-El will be the Phantom Zone Menaces. Ma and Pa Kent would still be around, and also Lana Lang to be Lois' sometimes rival. Lex Luthor and Clark never met before he became Superman. Clark never wore glasses until he became Supes. After learning of his origin at 18 from a Jor-el recording, Clark finished university, travelled around the world for a few years, until settling down as a reporter in Metropolis when he started his hero career.

As for kryptonite, here's what I'd do with it. All the old-school colors exist, but the only ones that can be found in large abundance are green kryptonite, which was what most of the planet Krypton was made of, and showered all over the earth which hid the baby Supes ship. Kryptonite has no immediate effect to non-Kryptonians, but long-term it will give them superman like powers, and even more long-termed will slowly kill them via cancer. There's also a rarer red kryptonite, the only of which was placed along with Kal-El's ship. It has the ability to undo yellow light effect, making supes normal once more. It was put by Jor-El incase his son ever felt he wanted it. On the other hand, it effect earthling's mentally, making them act in ways they wouldn't usually. Batman also invents X-Kryptonite, which saveguards supes from the regular kind. There's also Gold kryptonite, invented by Mxyzptlk which makes supes skin transparent and therefore makes him gain power so fast he can't controll himself. There's White Kryptonite, created from green K passing through a space cloud, which has the same effects as red K has on people. It only exists in outer space, however. And there is Jewel Kryptonite, which existed from a mountain on Krypton, which under red sunlight gave Kryptonians the same powers as yellow light. Under yellow light it will increase them even more, and give new and strange powers. It will kill humans in the same way green K kills kryptonians. All of its fragments are on a distant planet though.

In the end, Clark Kent is who the character is. He doesn't act like a Kryptonian, because he doesn't know much about it. Superman is more of an act, though the morals he teaches are the same. He doesn't pretend to be weak or stupid as Kent.

[The Shadow]

I liked Austens Superman. I wanted him to continue doing the book.

I hope Gail writes him with a bit of attitude like Austen did.

[Kal-el 100]

I would mix the best of the Silver Age and Modern takes on Superman.

"Superman" doesn't exist, that's just the name Clark calls himself to keep his powers a secret. None of this "Kal-el is the real person crap" (I know that's the original characterization of the character, but so what? Batman used to shoot people). No speaking Kryptonian or using exclamations like "Great Rao!"

So character-wise, I'm channeling John Byrne, Jeph Loeb, Geoff Johns.

On the other hand, the situations I'd have him get into are strictly out of this world. No Prankster or Toyman or Intergang...Superman deals with living meteors and gods and evil aliens and cosmic happenstance. Luthor can stay a businessman on the outside, but inside he's pure mad scientist.


SEAN
I think Superman is great accept one small flaw he makes too many Kryptonian refrences he should accpet his kryptonian fate ( being the last pure one) and move on

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Thanks to all for the replies.

I see there's a variety of takes on The Man Of Steel, and all of them are valid.

In fact, perhaps some of you would like to wite a mini-fanfic, so everyone else can see your take on Big Blue more clearly.

lonewolf23k, I agree on the Kryptonian Heritage thing you posted. It shouldn't be forgotten. He was raised as a human, but he's not. He's an alien. Superman being the last survivor of an entire race is something that he remembers every day, just for being who he is, doing the things he does. He, as a true Kryptonian, can't forget his heritage. He needs a balance betwen his human upbringing and his alien legacy. There was something written by Mark Waid for a book, and I posted the link on another thread. Here (http://www.newsarama.com/general/SuperPhilCh1Pre.htm) it is again. Give me your comments on this, people.

stealthwise, I'd love to see Superman in other places more often, too. I absolutely agree. He's SUPERMAN, dammit. He should travel more often to deep space and to other countries. I read this story when some aliens transport him to another planet (with a red sun), to help in the fight against a dictator. Cool story, IMO. I'd like to see more of that.

Ned Leeds, I agree on our tak, but partially. I think that not everything in the Superman stories should revolve around his human side. I'd like to see more of the things he deals with as Clark Kent, but not all the time. That's what I like from Chuck Austen's run: I saw things I had never seen before with Superman and his personal life.

Sean Whitmore, I agree. He should deal with more important threats, like the ones you mentioned. Superman shouldn't deal with common thieves and stuff like that (yes, Toyman and Prankster). I say heroes like the Question and Vigilante and the other guys should stay in Metropolis, to fight that kind of threats.

Goldenbane, regarding our point, characters like Darkseid should be at least as powerful as Superman (well, I think that he IS more powerful, but is downplayed by writers). Superman is FTL, but he Flash is even faster. As for the strength department, I do think that Superman should be the strongest, without competition. Like you said, there should be a number one in every category, and Superman shouldn't be number one in all of them, but what would be the point if he were second at everything (well, enemies wouldn't count in this list)? Some people say that Caps, MM and WW are nearly as powerful or as powerful as Superman. I think this isn't true. But I also think that this shouldn't be true.

GUTB, nice list you pulled off there. I especially like the part where you say "Superman's cape will not be tugged on without severe consequences". Why would you want Superman to shed most of his civilian identity? I'm intrigued. I've always thought of them as the links he has with his human side, the only things that remind him that humankind deserves to be saved and protected... And not conquered.

Super Hero Guy, that's quite a change. I think you're right on the flight thing. Remember the Superman: The Movie slogan? "You'll believe a man can fly". So, what you're proposing is a less god-like superhero, more like the original Siegel and Shuster vision of Superman. And this, according to your proposition, would cause all the other heroes to tone down, too. An interesting take indeed. I can see a modern world, but very old at the same time, a la "Sky Captain..." And the think with the Kryptonite is very original. But I don't see how would green K give them powers and then kill them, and would just kill Superman. Well, it's comics.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I liked Austens Superman. I wanted him to continue doing the book.

I hope Gail writes him with a bit of attitude like Austen did.

I liked Ausen's run too. It allowed me to saw a side of Big Blue I hadn't seen before, a side with problems and flaws. Not bad at all, although he got a beating in almost every issue :D

As for Gail, let's see what she comes up with. Fans of her work hve high expectations with her run on Action Comics, so I'll just wait and see.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I think Superman is great accept one small flaw he makes too many Kryptonian refrences he should accpet his kryptonian fate ( being the last pure one) and move on

So, do you think Superman should forget his Kryptonian heritage? I don't think that would be right. It is part of what gives Superman his uniqueness, don't you think?

[stealthwise]

So, do you think Superman should forget his Kryptonian heritage? I don't think that would be right. It is part of what gives Superman his uniqueness, don't you think?

Here's what I had in mind for an "Ultimate Superman" (from the thread in the DC Universe forum):

Comes from a race of aliens that are NOTHING like humans. However, his birthing matrix that creates him on Earth finds human dna within the vicinity and molds him into that (yeah... I think that I stole that from Transformers: Beast Wars). The first arc would consist of Clark Kent finding out as a teen that he's not from this world, which leads to him flying across the cosmos to find the remnants of the shattered Krypton, only to discover that Kryptonians are nothing like you and I. This disconnection between his "parent race" and his adopted planet leads him to question his place in the universe. I'm obviously envisioning something more science-fiction in the first place, and it would probably take place during the 1980s.

I think that the only thing I'd change there is how he gets his human dna, which would rely less on chance and more on planning on the part of his parents. But basically I never liked aliens that looked exactly like humans.

[Super Hero Guy]

In the end, Clark Kent is who the character is. He doesn't act like a Kryptonian, because he doesn't know much about it. In his Superman persona he does act like a Kryptonian, though the morals he teaches are the same. He doesn't pretend to be weak or stupid as Kent. Sometimes people perceive him as this because of his genuine kindness and lack of aggressiveness. He truely hates constantly lying about his identity, and you can always see that. You never see him playing around, and having a good time about his big act. But he is always good at it, despite his guilt.

Supes costume would be based around a red and blue blanket from his ship, with the crest of the El family on it. His mother Lara made the blanket, his adoptive mother Martha made the costume. After setting up stopping crime in Metropolis, he gives an exclusive interview with Lois Lane, who he has already saved a couple of times. He takes her to the fortress of solitude which he built at the south pole. He claims that this is where he landed as an infant, and that he came in a much larger craft with years of supplies of food, being educated by recordings of his father, and that he was actually around nine years old. He later started travelling around the world and decided to start helping it out. Remember, this is all a cover-up he made for Lois.

Eventually Supes moves on from the petty crooks. He starts handling international criminals, terrorists, and supernatural threats. He of course still faces his fair share of aliens. He does stuff like stop natural disasters, he gives advice to world leader's even when they don't ask for it. And he always does the random acts of kindness like save a cat from a tree. But I'd still keep this small scale. I mean, he still has a life as Kent. I'm always bothered by stories where he flies of to space with the JLA for weeks and they don't even mention how this would effect Clark's life.

At first, Lois and Clark Kent loathe each other. Clark just thinks Lois is morally low, and Lois pretty much ignores him at first, and when she discovers he's good, sees him as a threat. Superman of course always rescues Lois when she needs it, and Lois, who is of course actually an old softie on the inside, becomes madly infactuated with him. Eventually, Lois and Clark get closer and they become good friends. Clark, soon starts liking Lois. Then the old and crazy Supes-Clark-Lois triangle kicks in, where Lois is Clark's friend but loves Supes, and Clark is actually Superman, but he can't say anything because he thinks she'll hate him, and he won't act on his feelings as Supes because he doesn't want to put her in harm's way. Of course, Lana Lang moves in as the Planet's new secretary, and Clark decides to forget Lois and hook up with his old flame. Lana doesn't know about Supes/Clark, but she actually likes Clark. Lois starts acting really bitchy to Lana, and she eventually realizes to her horror that she loves Clark, but now he's dating Lana. Yeah, I kind of like the soap opera aspect to it.

As you can see from the above paragraph, I really like showing Clark's personal life. I think maybe half of every story should focus on it, except issues where it's crucial that the story focus completely on Supes. Other than he romannces, he also has the strain of being an investagative reporter for a world-class paper. Many stories will feature him investigating, which is one of the things I loved about Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman. Jimmy Olsen is still around, and I'd make him slightly more interesting. He is now Clark's best friend, they talk, hang out, and act like best friends. Jimmy isn't connected much with the Superman side of things, except for the occassional encounter. I'd make Perry more of a hardass, but still nice under it all. We'd constantly see Clark struggling with the stress of his heptic life, and never having time to do much of any of things he should be doing.

As for Lex Luthor: he is a scientist, always. He was able to build up the large LuthorCorp using his scientific discoveries and inventions. But at heart, he is a street criminal he was born. He is always making crazy schemes, and shady business dealing. Superman won't know Lex Luthor, the business man. He will only know the mad scientist. He gets involved in a crime, foils it, and almost catches the main perp, but he gets away in a crazy escape machine. After that, Lex will be obsessed with Supes, always trying to think of ways to stop him, sometimes with inventions, other times psychologically. Superman will constantly be trying to trakc down his identity, but Lex Luthor is not really a celebrity, and he is good at covering his tracks. Lex is also the only person in the world who believes Supes has a secret identity, and can see holes in the origin story he gives out publicly, but again, Lex doesn't know Clark Kent. I think eventually I'd let Lex find out and try and destroy Clark's life, while Clark meanwhile still doesn't know who this mad scientist is.

Well that's all. And if you're wondering how I wrote so much, this was already saved on my computer, I wrote it a couple of months ago.

[lonewolf23k]

After discovering the Doctor Steel (http://www.doctorsteel.com/) web page, I figured out a way to include The Toyman in a future Superman title.. Basically, The Toyman would be a more classic Silver Age-style "Mad Scientist out to Take Over the World with Science!", with a special fascination for toys and toylike weapons.

Would it be pointlessly silly and ridiculous?

Yes, yes it would...

...And? :D

[GUTB]

It should be cleared up that Superman is not a "persona", nor is Superman an act. Neither is Clark Kent. In fact, Superman and Clark Kent are the same person. Superman is just Clark Kent with an alias. Superman is just a name and a costume -- Superman does and believes in nothing Clark Kent wouldn't.

The only act, the only persona he maintains, is that of the "Mild-Mannered Reporter". Without the need to protect his family and friends, Clark would act like Superman all the time -- because Superman is who he is. Being dressed up in a costume or his civvies is just a fashion choice. Superman is Clark Kent and vice versa.

Eventually, after many years of having to supress his real identity while not Superman, Clark Kent becomes a lie. The problem is, Clark Kent is the name he was raised with. If his lone connection to humanity becomes a lie, than all that's left is to be an alien.

[pennywisdom]

1. Establish a framework of range and scale of powers, and do not deviate from this model.

2. Superman jobs to NOBODY. He may lose occasionally, but only in such a manner that cannot be described as jobbing.

3. Superman never questions himself. He is always correct in his viepoints and policies, or at least he believes himself to be.

4. Superman will shed Lois, Metropolis, the Kents, and most of his civilian identity.

5. Under some dire circumstances, Superman will kill.

6. Superman is above all street-level crime fighting. He won't even bother aprehending these criminals if they are not overtly threatening public saftey.

7. Superman will involve himself in some itnernational affairs. He will not tolerate wars, genocide, or other overtly evil goverment actions.

8. Superman will not directly involve himself in personal injustices, but may ask other superheroes to intervene.

9. Superman will occasionally feel the need to speak and, and will be listened to.

10. Superman is not a god, but compared to 99.99% of everyone else he might as well be; Superman's cape will not be tugged on without severe consequences.
That's probably the most repulsive thing I've ever heard. Superman, in your scenario, sounds like a fascist regime, essentially excercising a complete strangle-hold on humanity, ala Nazi Germany. I find your choice for number 7 to be greatly ironic. What "overtly evil government action" could even compare with the dictatorship you envision for Superman?

My version would definitely make Superman more "man". His being an omnipresent Christ-figure is the reason nobody gives a crap about the character and are instead reading Marvel. He needs to be human, face real problems, and develop a personality that is relatable and understandable. If he's just the "flying brick" he's been for so many years, who cares what happens? Smallville has rekindled my interest in the character, so the themes and situations in the show would, thematically, be the basis for my character. If you think that sounds stupid, just compare the number of people who saw Spider-Man 2 to the number of people who are reading the core Superman titles lately. Superman needs to be interesting to people again.

[Reptisaurus!]

After discovering the Doctor Steel (http://www.doctorsteel.com/) web page, I figured out a way to include The Toyman in a future Superman title.. Basically, The Toyman would be a more classic Silver Age-style "Mad Scientist out to Take Over the World with Science!", with a special fascination for toys and toylike weapons.

Would it be pointlessly silly and ridiculous?

Yes, yes it would...

...And? :D

Nice. I totally miss the silier Supes stories.

IMO, one of the coolest things about Superman is that he can be used to tell a bunch of different types of stories.

He's maybe the most optimistic and good-hearted of any major superhero, but there are also elements of tragedy (Survivor's guilt, essential disconnect from humanity, parents death) that are built into the character concept.

Superman stories can be tragedies. Superman stories can be farces. Superman stories can be romances, or Kirbyesque beat-'em-ups, or metaphorical works where Supes represents the American soul.

Seems like a lot of the time DC forgets how flexible the character can be when they try for a consistent editorial vision.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Here's what I had in mind for an "Ultimate Superman" (from the thread in the DC Universe forum):

Comes from a race of aliens that are NOTHING like humans. However, his birthing matrix that creates him on Earth finds human dna within the vicinity and molds him into that (yeah... I think that I stole that from Transformers: Beast Wars). The first arc would consist of Clark Kent finding out as a teen that he's not from this world, which leads to him flying across the cosmos to find the remnants of the shattered Krypton, only to discover that Kryptonians are nothing like you and I. This disconnection between his "parent race" and his adopted planet leads him to question his place in the universe. I'm obviously envisioning something more science-fiction in the first place, and it would probably take place during the 1980s.

I think that the only thing I'd change there is how he gets his human dna, which would rely less on chance and more on planning on the part of his parents. But basically I never liked aliens that looked exactly like humans.

Now THAT is really interesting. It would be hard to cope on the idea that Superman's original appearance has nothing to do with a humanoid one, but it would be really interesting.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

In the end, Clark Kent is who the character is. He doesn't act like a Kryptonian, because he doesn't know much about it. In his Superman persona he does act like a Kryptonian, though the morals he teaches are the same. He doesn't pretend to be weak or stupid as Kent. Sometimes people perceive him as this because of his genuine kindness and lack of aggressiveness. He truely hates constantly lying about his identity, and you can always see that. You never see him playing around, and having a good time about his big act. But he is always good at it, despite his guilt.

Supes costume would be based around a red and blue blanket from his ship, with the crest of the El family on it. His mother Lara made the blanket, his adoptive mother Martha made the costume. After setting up stopping crime in Metropolis, he gives an exclusive interview with Lois Lane, who he has already saved a couple of times. He takes her to the fortress of solitude which he built at the south pole. He claims that this is where he landed as an infant, and that he came in a much larger craft with years of supplies of food, being educated by recordings of his father, and that he was actually around nine years old. He later started travelling around the world and decided to start helping it out. Remember, this is all a cover-up he made for Lois.

Eventually Supes moves on from the petty crooks. He starts handling international criminals, terrorists, and supernatural threats. He of course still faces his fair share of aliens. He does stuff like stop natural disasters, he gives advice to world leader's even when they don't ask for it. And he always does the random acts of kindness like save a cat from a tree. But I'd still keep this small scale. I mean, he still has a life as Kent. I'm always bothered by stories where he flies of to space with the JLA for weeks and they don't even mention how this would effect Clark's life.

At first, Lois and Clark Kent loathe each other. Clark just thinks Lois is morally low, and Lois pretty much ignores him at first, and when she discovers he's good, sees him as a threat. Superman of course always rescues Lois when she needs it, and Lois, who is of course actually an old softie on the inside, becomes madly infactuated with him. Eventually, Lois and Clark get closer and they become good friends. Clark, soon starts liking Lois. Then the old and crazy Supes-Clark-Lois triangle kicks in, where Lois is Clark's friend but loves Supes, and Clark is actually Superman, but he can't say anything because he thinks she'll hate him, and he won't act on his feelings as Supes because he doesn't want to put her in harm's way. Of course, Lana Lang moves in as the Planet's new secretary, and Clark decides to forget Lois and hook up with his old flame. Lana doesn't know about Supes/Clark, but she actually likes Clark. Lois starts acting really bitchy to Lana, and she eventually realizes to her horror that she loves Clark, but now he's dating Lana. Yeah, I kind of like the soap opera aspect to it.

As you can see from the above paragraph, I really like showing Clark's personal life. I think maybe half of every story should focus on it, except issues where it's crucial that the story focus completely on Supes. Other than he romannces, he also has the strain of being an investagative reporter for a world-class paper. Many stories will feature him investigating, which is one of the things I loved about Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman. Jimmy Olsen is still around, and I'd make him slightly more interesting. He is now Clark's best friend, they talk, hang out, and act like best friends. Jimmy isn't connected much with the Superman side of things, except for the occassional encounter. I'd make Perry more of a hardass, but still nice under it all. We'd constantly see Clark struggling with the stress of his heptic life, and never having time to do much of any of things he should be doing.

As for Lex Luthor: he is a scientist, always. He was able to build up the large LuthorCorp using his scientific discoveries and inventions. But at heart, he is a street criminal he was born. He is always making crazy schemes, and shady business dealing. Superman won't know Lex Luthor, the business man. He will only know the mad scientist. He gets involved in a crime, foils it, and almost catches the main perp, but he gets away in a crazy escape machine. After that, Lex will be obsessed with Supes, always trying to think of ways to stop him, sometimes with inventions, other times psychologically. Superman will constantly be trying to trakc down his identity, but Lex Luthor is not really a celebrity, and he is good at covering his tracks. Lex is also the only person in the world who believes Supes has a secret identity, and can see holes in the origin story he gives out publicly, but again, Lex doesn't know Clark Kent. I think eventually I'd let Lex find out and try and destroy Clark's life, while Clark meanwhile still doesn't know who this mad scientist is.

Hey, not bad at all. Really good, actually. And the soap opera side to it is something that would be cool to see in Superman. And something that Chuck Austen had been doing in Action Comics. I wouldn't like it to be the center of the whole story, though. There must be a balance.

Well that's all. And if you're wondering how I wrote so much, this was already saved on my computer, I wrote it a couple of months ago.

It's good to plan things in advance.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

It should be cleared up that Superman is not a "persona", nor is Superman an act. Neither is Clark Kent. In fact, Superman and Clark Kent are the same person. Superman is just Clark Kent with an alias. Superman is just a name and a costume -- Superman does and believes in nothing Clark Kent wouldn't.

The only act, the only persona he maintains, is that of the "Mild-Mannered Reporter". Without the need to protect his family and friends, Clark would act like Superman all the time -- because Superman is who he is. Being dressed up in a costume or his civvies is just a fashion choice. Superman is Clark Kent and vice versa.

Eventually, after many years of having to supress his real identity while not Superman, Clark Kent becomes a lie. The problem is, Clark Kent is the name he was raised with. If his lone connection to humanity becomes a lie, than all that's left is to be an alien.

Interesting take. I think that's something that would eventually happen with Superman, if the manga/anime treatment were applied. Everyone would die eventually, and Superman would remain the same.

However, it would be interesting to see that thing from the beginning. I mean, how would he behave if there were a side not so human, if there were not so many links to his humanity. I mean, he'd still love humankind (I guess), but how would he deal with things?

BTW, I think Clark Kent is Kal-El with an alias. Superman is like his "artistic name". I've always thought his alien side should be first, despite his upbringing. Hell, I'll give it a shot, and post my take on Big Blue later.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Superman should be a paragon, in terms of power, and also in terms of morality and ethics. While fallible, like all mortals, he should always seek to do the best thing possible, should hold himself to an incredibly high standard, and should inspire others to such idealism. The portrayal in IDENTITY CRISIS - Superman as a guy who chooses to ignore or who blinds himself to clear wrongdoing - is the most wrong-headed view of Superman I've ever seen. If anything, he should be 180 degrees from that - he should hold himself to the highest possible moral standard and he should encourage others to do the same.

Superman's alien heritage is a fact, but should not be the primary component to his identity/personality. While he is Kryptonian by birth, he grew up among humans, and his personality and sense of morality should, by and large, be human. Essentially, he should be the most perfect human possible. Given his incredible abilities, which allow him to do things other humans cannot do, he should never do things the easy way if doing them differently would be more the *right* way.

His adventures should have a strong sense of the fantastic. Sure, Superman can stop a boat from sinking every now and then, but that sort of mundane threat shouldn't be the focus of his adventures. Cops and rescue teams are around for stuff like that. He should be saving the world from dire threats, or at very least doing things nobody else can do, for whatever reason. That's what makes him *Super*.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

After discovering the Doctor Steel (http://www.doctorsteel.com/) web page, I figured out a way to include The Toyman in a future Superman title.. Basically, The Toyman would be a more classic Silver Age-style "Mad Scientist out to Take Over the World with Science!", with a special fascination for toys and toylike weapons.

Would it be pointlessly silly and ridiculous?

Yes, yes it would...

...And? :D

And... It would be great. With the right vision for the character, it could be really creepy stuff. A mad scientist is something that never gets outdated.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Nice. I totally miss the silier Supes stories.

IMO, one of the coolest things about Superman is that he can be used to tell a bunch of different types of stories.

He's maybe the most optimistic and good-hearted of any major superhero, but there are also elements of tragedy (Survivor's guilt, essential disconnect from humanity, parents death) that are built into the character concept.

Superman stories can be tragedies. Superman stories can be farces. Superman stories can be romances, or Kirbyesque beat-'em-ups, or metaphorical works where Supes represents the American soul.

Seems like a lot of the time DC forgets how flexible the character can be when they try for a consistent editorial vision.

I agree. Examples of that are the current books. Metaphorical/ drama stuff (Superman), action with a soap-opera-ish touch (Action Comics), and action with drama (Adventures Of Superman).

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Superman should be a paragon, in terms of power, and also in terms of morality and ethics. While fallible, like all mortals, he should always seek to do the best thing possible, should hold himself to an incredibly high standard, and should inspire others to such idealism. The portrayal in IDENTITY CRISIS - Superman as a guy who chooses to ignore or who blinds himself to clear wrongdoing - is the most wrong-headed view of Superman I've ever seen. If anything, he should be 180 degrees from that - he should hold himself to the highest possible moral standard and he should encourage others to do the same.

Superman's alien heritage is a fact, but should not be the primary component to his identity/personality. While he is Kryptonian by birth, he grew up among humans, and his personality and sense of morality should, by and large, be human. Essentially, he should be the most perfect human possible. Given his incredible abilities, which allow him to do things other humans cannot do, he should never do things the easy way if doing them differently would be more the *right* way.

His adventures should have a strong sense of the fantastic. Sure, Superman can stop a boat from sinking every now and then, but that sort of mundane threat shouldn't be the focus of his adventures. Cops and rescue teams are around for stuff like that. He should be saving the world from dire threats, or at very least doing things nobody else can do, for whatever reason. That's what makes him *Super*.

Really interesting stuff. And yes, Superman should deal more often with more fantastic threats and less often with mundane tasks. As for his origin, perhaps you're right. All of his values come from his human upbringing. But still, his alien side hasn't been shown enough. Perhaps a 50/50? I mean, I've noticed that when writers focus on his values and beliefs, they forget he comes from another planet. Yes, he was raised as a human, but he's not human.

[JeffreyWKramer]

Really interesting stuff. And yes, Superman should deal more often with more fantastic threats and less often with mundane tasks. As for his origin, perhaps you're right. All of his values come from his human upbringing. But still, his alien side hasn't been shown enough. Perhaps a 50/50? I mean, I've noticed that when writers focus on his values and beliefs, they forget he comes from another planet. Yes, he was raised as a human, but he's not human.

Doing a lot with the Kryptonian side runs the risk of forgetting the "man" part of Superman. Especially post-CRISIS, Kryptonians aren't very much like earth humans. They also aren't a particularly pleasant bunch, really. A Superman more like them wouldn't be someone able to relate well to people.

I like the idea of Superman knowing about his heritage, and sometimes drawing upon it - perhaps even reluctantly, as his own personality is so non-Kryptonian - but I think the best way to deal with his Kryptonian nature is by his own efforts to maintain his connection to humanity despite the fact that he's not human. He could easily become a detached, arrogant figure like the Eradicator, but he doesn-t - why not? Because he believes in human values, and because he doesn't see himself as innately better than humans, despite being faster, stronger, more durable, etc. That humility is a major component of who Superman should be - which is one reason I saw the arrogant and posturing elements of Austen's portrayals as so off-base. Making fun of the folly of a villain - and demonstrating said folly - is one thing, but being a show-off and acting in a self-aggrandizing manner just isn't consistent with the very basic values of the character. It comes down to his Kansas protestant upbringing, really - do the best you can, help others, don't get too stuck on yourself.

Superman identifies with Jonathan and Martha Kent as his parents. He identifies himself as being from Smallville, KS more than Krypton. He chooses to live as a man among men, despite being well aware that he is not truly a human, on the basis of his biology and his "powers beyond those of mortal man." If you make him more alien, you either a) lose that, or b) have to frame his alienness as something not very alien, like the pre-CRISIS Krypton. Back then he said "great Rao" and knew some Kryptonian martial art and knew all this Kryptonian science, but the martial art didn't seem any different from jiu-jitsu, the Kryptonian science wasn't consistently any different from the stuff Luthor came up with and what little worship of Rao he did might as well have been going to a Unitarian service. Why bother with him being alien if he's not really going to be "alien", and why make Superman into the Martian Manhunter. DC has one alien hero with nearly the same powers - what makes Superman different is that he is human by choice, not by biology.

[Toonimator]

For my take on Superman, I wouldn't focus on his human side...

...or his Kryptonian side...

...I'd focus on his ROBOT SIDE!!
http://www.toonimator.com/misc/superman_prime.jpg

:p

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Doing a lot with the Kryptonian side runs the risk of forgetting the "man" part of Superman. Especially post-CRISIS, Kryptonians aren't very much like earth humans. They also aren't a particularly pleasant bunch, really. A Superman more like them wouldn't be someone able to relate well to people.

And doing a lot with "the man part" runs the risk of forgetting the alien part. all I say is that this shouldn't be forgotten, so we don't forget he's an alien. Besides, I think there's so much left unexplored of the Kryptonian history and heritage, that it deserves to be portrayed.

I like the idea of Superman knowing about his heritage, and sometimes drawing upon it - perhaps even reluctantly, as his own personality is so non-Kryptonian - but I think the best way to deal with his Kryptonian nature is by his own efforts to maintain his connection to humanity despite the fact that he's not human. He could easily become a detached, arrogant figure like the Eradicator, but he doesn-t - why not? Because he believes in human values, and because he doesn't see himself as innately better than humans, despite being faster, stronger, more durable, etc. That humility is a major component of who Superman should be - which is one reason I saw the arrogant and posturing elements of Austen's portrayals as so off-base. Making fun of the folly of a villain - and demonstrating said folly - is one thing, but being a show-off and acting in a self-aggrandizing manner just isn't consistent with the very basic values of the character. It comes down to his Kansas protestant upbringing, really - do the best you can, help others, don't get too stuck on yourself.

Agreed on the humility.

Superman identifies with Jonathan and Martha Kent as his parents. He identifies himself as being from Smallville, KS more than Krypton. He chooses to live as a man among men, despite being well aware that he is not truly a human, on the basis of his biology and his "powers beyond those of mortal man." If you make him more alien, you either a) lose that, or b) have to frame his alienness as something not very alien, like the pre-CRISIS Krypton. Back then he said "great Rao" and knew some Kryptonian martial art and knew all this Kryptonian science, but the martial art didn't seem any different from jiu-jitsu, the Kryptonian science wasn't consistently any different from the stuff Luthor came up with and what little worship of Rao he did might as well have been going to a Unitarian service. Why bother with him being alien if he's not really going to be "alien", and why make Superman into the Martian Manhunter. DC has one alien hero with nearly the same powers - what makes Superman different is that he is human by choice, not by biology.

Well, you're right on the MM comment. But I don't think you would lose Superman's humility by making him more alien. I mean, it's been a LONG time since we last saw anything about T-Vo/T-Rao, or about the supposed problem Rao has with The Quintessence. I think to keep those things present, besides Superman's acceptance of his true origin, would add to the character, rather than take some humanity away.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

For my take on Superman, I wouldn't focus on his human side...

...or his Kryptonian side...

...I'd focus on his ROBOT SIDE!!
....

:p

That is so cool...

[JeffreyWKramer]

I should add here that I am very much looking forward to Grant Morrison's upcoming Superman book. Morrison has demonstrated (in JLA) an exceptional understanding of what Superman is all about, and a strong respect for the character (vs. a tendency to reframe the character in his own image). Hopefully he will give us a Superman to remind the other writers what the character is really like, and in a manner demonstrating that he can be an inspiring and idealistic hero without being boring or lacking personality.

[Maximus Brockman]

hi. i'm new here. first post, actually. i hope you'll give me a chance. i'd like to add to this discussion about Superman. and what i think is wrong with the state of comics today.

i love Superman. i've been reading comics for over 20 years. still, he's my favorite superhero. however, i don't like the direction he's been in the last few years. in fact, i don't like the whole comic book direction. what's with the brooding? what's with all the grit and realism? what happened to the fantastic? to the insanely ludacris (i know, i know..he's a rapper now). where's the fun? can't Superman be positive and inspiring? can't we have one Superman title that's fun to read? i don't buy that he's dated because he's the "boy scout". if good stories were told about him, people would read them. to me, Superman should be/is the best that we all can/could be. super wicked strong, fast, confident, smart...the whole nine yards. of course Flash would be faster, Batman a better detective, Aquaman talks to fish better, whatever. but, Superman is what all everyone should aspire to be (including superheroes). even the "dark, brooding" ones. like, the Batman

to me, when you see Superman, you get a sense of awe. that..."WOW". which, probably makes him a bit uncomfortable. he's just doing his job. what he does best. i see him being bit self-effacing. not embarassed or uncomfortable with who he is, but how people react to him. plus, he's got a sense of humor. maybe not the wise-cracking Spiderman, but defintely more than he has now. how else would you react to people gawking at you? of course, there are going to be people scared of him. people that are threatened by Superman. people like Lex. i'll deal with him later...

as for Clark Kent, he's the real character. Superman is the job. of course, being Superman is what makes Clark...Clark. i don't think that CK has to be the "mild-mannered" reporter. Clark can be a normal person. he doesn't have to bumble around. let's be real, nobody's buying the whole glasses thing. we are all suspending our disbelief. can't Clark just be Joe Regular guy? especially since his alter ego is the furtherest thing from that. i think that Dean Cain played a great Clark. terrible Superman, though

as for his Kryptonian heritage, i think that him flaunting it, would only alienated him from people. scaring them more than necessary. for a flying guy in blue tights looking for acceptance from the masses, that would be the last thing he would want to flaunt. i don't have a problem him accepting his heritage, but let him do it on his own time. back at the fortress of solitude. i like the S shield standing for Superman. Lois can still name him Superman. That's where he can get the idea for the S shield (I don't remember if this is how Bryne did it). when it's a cryptic kryptonian symbol, he's displaying a symbol that means nothing to anyone but him. again, if Superman's looking to be accepted by regular people, the kryptonian symbol is only going to tell people he different from them. the powers alone are going to be hard for people to accept, but an alien with those powers???? whoa, boy...

speaking of being an alien, i like the idea of the kryptonian's being a non human race. and that his birthing matrix picked human dna and made kal-el into a humanoid. i think that's wicked cool. not enough to change his whole history, though. if i could have two seperate superman lines (a regular and an ultimate line), i would love to see that be his origins. we could see Clark/Superman struggle with his humanity his whole life. because he was never truly "born" human. now that's some good storytellin'. in the end, though, i like how the kryptonians were portrayed in Birthright.

i think that there should be one or two people more powerful than Superman. i like Darkseid being all around more powerful than him. Superman needs someone to push him to his limits. to make him use more than his strength to defeat them. which is why i like Lex better as a deranged business man. especially in today's corporate controlled environment. Lex's ego would want him to be the best. have the most money, the most power. and when S-man steals his limelight, man...Lex would be wicked mad. especially since Superman's only doing it for the love. not even for the money?!?! that, in itself, would drive Lex mad.

speaking of mad, i think it's cool when Superman gets mad. how cool is it, when he turns around and his eyes are burning red. man, you don't want to mess with him then. i know this seems to contradict what i said earlier about the brooding bit. i think it shows how human he truly is...that no matter how patient he is...he still get mad. it takes a lot to get him mad. but when he does...watch out.

i like the idea of Superboy being a clone of Superman. i don't like that he's portrayed as an idiot, though. i like Supergirl. i think she's a good supporting character. If they would only stop killing her off...changing her. And Krypto. i like Krypto. Especially the way Ed McGuiness draws him.

and don't even get me started on how annoying Lois is....

those are my two cents. for those of you who read this dissertation, i thank you for indulging me. :o


man my fingers hurt

[Mister Mets]

Superman would be the most famous man in the world, and almost universally seen as a great hero.
Clark Kent is Superman's alter ego, a reporter to the Daily Planet, devoted to his wife, and parents. He's not the most important part of the story.

The first arc would have a powerful alien warrior from another galaxy coming to Metropolis to challenge Superman, who is at the time elsewhere in the Solar System. A cliffhanger has the alien warrior- who has beaten on some other superheroes asking "Where is Superman?" unaware of a purple blur moving behind him at several times the Speed of Sound. A violent battle would ensue.
The second arc would have a group of billionaires pooling their resources for a final attack on Superman, who they see as a threat. They would hire Superman's old enemies as consultants, and their weapons would include many forms of synthesized Kryptonite, magic bullets, and an army of Bizarros.

I'd focus on giving him tougher enemies, and allow other writers to develop Clark, the supporting cast, and recurring enemies. Although one story I'd like to do is a Day in the Life tale with Superman's "duties" getting in the way of Clark enjoying his personal life (he goes home for Lunch, and hears a tornado in Tokyo, he's unable to watch a movie for more than ten minutes at a time, etc.) And after seeing the Jimmy Olsen- Lois Lane covers, i wouldn't mind a spinoff book about the Daily Planet.

[cactusmaac]

For my take on Superman, I wouldn't focus on his human side...

...or his Kryptonian side...

...I'd focus on his ROBOT SIDE!!
http://www.toonimator.com/misc/superman_prime.jpg

:p

That is awesome.

[lonewolf23k]

On the Man/Alien thing, I say it should be a balance of the two. One one hand, all his life, he's been raised like a human, and taught human values by human parents. On the other hand, the things he can do are clearly superhuman, and his origins are litterally out of this world.

You could build an interesting drama about Clark's attempts at coming to terms with his dual origins. Much like actual immigrant orphans today, I'm sure that the moment Clark discovered his alien origins and heritage, he would seek to explore it as much as possible. After all, when you discover a whole new side to yourself, you can't help but be curious about it.

At the same time, however, his earthly upbringing has solid, visible ties, which would keep him from getting lost in his alien heritage. Yes, he's Kal-El, the last Son of Krypton, but he's also Clark Kent, a humble farmboy from Kansas who became a Metropolis Journalist.

Which makes the identity of Superman all the more important: It's his attempt at coming to terms with both his origins, to build an identity that's uniquely him, a mixture of Clark Kent and Kal-El.

[Reptisaurus!]

hi. i'm new here. first post, actually. i hope you'll give me a chance. i'd like to add to this discussion about Superman. and what i think is wrong with the state of comics today.

*Snip*

Very nice dissertation. I pretty much agree with you on all of it.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I should add here that I am very much looking forward to Grant Morrison's upcoming Superman book. Morrison has demonstrated (in JLA) an exceptional understanding of what Superman is all about, and a strong respect for the character (vs. a tendency to reframe the character in his own image). Hopefully he will give us a Superman to remind the other writers what the character is really like, and in a manner demonstrating that he can be an inspiring and idealistic hero without being boring or lacking personality.

I absolutely agree. I'm very much looking forward to this. for what I've read, this is going to be a wild ride, without forgetting who Superman is, as you said. BTW, there's this rumor that Superman will die at the end of the series. I think this won't happen, because this is a series, and not a mini-series... Unless the issues after 12th have nothing to do with Morrison's run.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

hi. i'm new here. first post, actually. i hope you'll give me a chance. i'd like to add to this discussion about Superman. and what i think is wrong with the state of comics today.

i love Superman. i've been reading comics for over 20 years. still, he's my favorite superhero. however, i don't like the direction he's been in the last few years. in fact, i don't like the whole comic book direction. what's with the brooding? what's with all the grit and realism? what happened to the fantastic? to the insanely ludacris (i know, i know..he's a rapper now). where's the fun? can't Superman be positive and inspiring? can't we have one Superman title that's fun to read? i don't buy that he's dated because he's the "boy scout". if good stories were told about him, people would read them. to me, Superman should be/is the best that we all can/could be. super wicked strong, fast, confident, smart...the whole nine yards. of course Flash would be faster, Batman a better detective, Aquaman talks to fish better, whatever. but, Superman is what all everyone should aspire to be (including superheroes). even the "dark, brooding" ones. like, the Batman

to me, when you see Superman, you get a sense of awe. that..."WOW". which, probably makes him a bit uncomfortable. he's just doing his job. what he does best. i see him being bit self-effacing. not embarassed or uncomfortable with who he is, but how people react to him. plus, he's got a sense of humor. maybe not the wise-cracking Spiderman, but defintely more than he has now. how else would you react to people gawking at you? of course, there are going to be people scared of him. people that are threatened by Superman. people like Lex. i'll deal with him later...

as for Clark Kent, he's the real character. Superman is the job. of course, being Superman is what makes Clark...Clark. i don't think that CK has to be the "mild-mannered" reporter. Clark can be a normal person. he doesn't have to bumble around. let's be real, nobody's buying the whole glasses thing. we are all suspending our disbelief. can't Clark just be Joe Regular guy? especially since his alter ego is the furtherest thing from that. i think that Dean Cain played a great Clark. terrible Superman, though

as for his Kryptonian heritage, i think that him flaunting it, would only alienated him from people. scaring them more than necessary. for a flying guy in blue tights looking for acceptance from the masses, that would be the last thing he would want to flaunt. i don't have a problem him accepting his heritage, but let him do it on his own time. back at the fortress of solitude. i like the S shield standing for Superman. Lois can still name him Superman. That's where he can get the idea for the S shield (I don't remember if this is how Bryne did it). when it's a cryptic kryptonian symbol, he's displaying a symbol that means nothing to anyone but him. again, if Superman's looking to be accepted by regular people, the kryptonian symbol is only going to tell people he different from them. the powers alone are going to be hard for people to accept, but an alien with those powers???? whoa, boy...

speaking of being an alien, i like the idea of the kryptonian's being a non human race. and that his birthing matrix picked human dna and made kal-el into a humanoid. i think that's wicked cool. not enough to change his whole history, though. if i could have two seperate superman lines (a regular and an ultimate line), i would love to see that be his origins. we could see Clark/Superman struggle with his humanity his whole life. because he was never truly "born" human. now that's some good storytellin'. in the end, though, i like how the kryptonians were portrayed in Birthright.

i think that there should be one or two people more powerful than Superman. i like Darkseid being all around more powerful than him. Superman needs someone to push him to his limits. to make him use more than his strength to defeat them. which is why i like Lex better as a deranged business man. especially in today's corporate controlled environment. Lex's ego would want him to be the best. have the most money, the most power. and when S-man steals his limelight, man...Lex would be wicked mad. especially since Superman's only doing it for the love. not even for the money?!?! that, in itself, would drive Lex mad.

speaking of mad, i think it's cool when Superman gets mad. how cool is it, when he turns around and his eyes are burning red. man, you don't want to mess with him then. i know this seems to contradict what i said earlier about the brooding bit. i think it shows how human he truly is...that no matter how patient he is...he still get mad. it takes a lot to get him mad. but when he does...watch out.

i like the idea of Superboy being a clone of Superman. i don't like that he's portrayed as an idiot, though. i like Supergirl. i think she's a good supporting character. If they would only stop killing her off...changing her. And Krypto. i like Krypto. Especially the way Ed McGuiness draws him.

and don't even get me started on how annoying Lois is....

those are my two cents. for those of you who read this dissertation, i thank you for indulging me. :o


man my fingers hurt

Welcome to the boards. Nice post, and very valid POV. As for his Kryptonian heritage, I wouldn't want him to flaunt about that, but simply to accept it, like he's doing in Azzarello's Superman. And not just that, but embrace it. As for the S symbol being Kryptonian, I think it's cool. It means that he honors his heritage and his biological parents. For the rest of the humans, although they may know that it's an alien symbol, they wouldn't care. Because he has earned humankind's trust (well, most of it).

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Superman would be the most famous man in the world, and almost universally seen as a great hero.
Clark Kent is Superman's alter ego, a reporter to the Daily Planet, devoted to his wife, and parents. He's not the most important part of the story.

The first arc would have a powerful alien warrior from another galaxy coming to Metropolis to challenge Superman, who is at the time elsewhere in the Solar System. A cliffhanger has the alien warrior- who has beaten on some other superheroes asking "Where is Superman?" unaware of a purple blur moving behind him at several times the Speed of Sound. A violent battle would ensue.
The second arc would have a group of billionaires pooling their resources for a final attack on Superman, who they see as a threat. They would hire Superman's old enemies as consultants, and their weapons would include many forms of synthesized Kryptonite, magic bullets, and an army of Bizarros.

I'd focus on giving him tougher enemies, and allow other writers to develop Clark, the supporting cast, and recurring enemies. Although one story I'd like to do is a Day in the Life tale with Superman's "duties" getting in the way of Clark enjoying his personal life (he goes home for Lunch, and hears a tornado in Tokyo, he's unable to watch a movie for more than ten minutes at a time, etc.) And after seeing the Jimmy Olsen- Lois Lane covers, i wouldn't mind a spinoff book about the Daily Planet.

Dude, those are real cool ideas. And the Daily Planet spin-off would be great, a la Gotham Central (I guess).

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Right now,my take on Superman would be that of an international peacemaker. He'd be less of a god and more like a great humanitarian with godlike powers. He's too powerful and too noble to simply get into big brawls. It's exciting to see that,but I think the time has come to move Superman away from all that. Violence would be something that we'd rarely see from him.

Interesting, just like the Jedi did in the Old Republic days. He would intervene in international affairs and stuff like that? Not bad at all.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

On the Man/Alien thing, I say it should be a balance of the two. One one hand, all his life, he's been raised like a human, and taught human values by human parents. On the other hand, the things he can do are clearly superhuman, and his origins are litterally out of this world.

You could build an interesting drama about Clark's attempts at coming to terms with his dual origins. Much like actual immigrant orphans today, I'm sure that the moment Clark discovered his alien origins and heritage, he would seek to explore it as much as possible. After all, when you discover a whole new side to yourself, you can't help but be curious about it.

At the same time, however, his earthly upbringing has solid, visible ties, which would keep him from getting lost in his alien heritage. Yes, he's Kal-El, the last Son of Krypton, but he's also Clark Kent, a humble farmboy from Kansas who became a Metropolis Journalist.

Which makes the identity of Superman all the more important: It's his attempt at coming to terms with both his origins, to build an identity that's uniquely him, a mixture of Clark Kent and Kal-El.

Excellent dissertation. And I agree. It's about not forgetting who Superman really is - an alien -, and not forgetting his deep human values either.

[GUTB]

Sigh. Look. Why does God let there be death, poverty and illness? Well, obviously, God doesn't exist. But what if he did exist, and exist in a form even remotely resembling the all-bonevolant and loving father of mankind he's often potrayed as? In other words, what if there really WAS a Superman? Would Superman allow mass-murder, famine, and preventable disasters. No, he would not.

We wouldn't nescisarily have a Ten Commandments, but we'd definately get the Law of Superman. What kind of person with the power to save lives and make the world better easily NOT do these things? Not Superman.

[Supes35]

I would have it where both Clark Kent and Superman are both who he really is. Clark Kent, the human side, has the values and the morals which were instilled in him as a kid. Superman, the heroic side, is what he can do. Superman is one who has come to terms with his kryptonian heritage, has accepted it, and who has the values Clark has, to become the world's greatest superhero.

I would also make it where Clark/Superman and Lois Lane have a child, and its brought into DC continuity. DC comics has danced around this issue for so many years, its not even funny. I think DC needs to push the envelope, and finally allow it to happen. They've been married for nearly 10 years now. They both want to have kids really badly. So, I think it should happen. I think it would make for some great storylines, in the sense that:

1) Will the kid have the potential to become even more powerful than Superman, himself?

2) With everything going on in the DCU right now, as far as the villains, especially Lex, going after Superman, a kid would bring some complications, since these villains would go after this kid just to get to Superman. Since Superman does have strong family values and is adament about protecting his family, he would be adament about protecting his wife and his kid.

I think a kid would bring joy, yet conflict to Clark and Lois' marriage which IMO, is needed. I think they need a new dynamic in their marriage, where they would face some conflicts that would arise from having a kid, and will have to go through that together, to make their relationship stronger. With everything that's going on in the DCU right now, I think it would be perfect.

Besides, I think it can be done. I think they can have it where the kid has no powers when he/she is born (the kid is not exposed to sunlight while he was in Lois' womb) and the kid gaining his or her abilities when they are older.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Sigh. Look. Why does God let there be death, poverty and illness? Well, obviously, God doesn't exist. But what if he did exist, and exist in a form even remotely resembling the all-bonevolant and loving father of mankind he's often potrayed as? In other words, what if there really WAS a Superman? Would Superman allow mass-murder, famine, and preventable disasters. No, he would not.

We wouldn't nescisarily have a Ten Commandments, but we'd definately get the Law of Superman. What kind of person with the power to save lives and make the world better easily NOT do these things? Not Superman.

Hmmm... Perhaps you're right. But there's also this thing some people say regarding God, and that is that God let's is choose. IOW, that means that things like mass-murder, genocide, wars and even illness and poverty (to some extent, obviously) happen because we make them happen.

Oh well, I don't know. All I know is Superman could take over the world if he wanted, but he doesn't.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I would have it where both Clark Kent and Superman are both who he really is. Clark Kent, the human side, has the values and the morals which were instilled in him as a kid. Superman, the heroic side, is what he can do. Superman is one who has come to terms with his kryptonian heritage, has accepted it, and who has the values Clark has, to become the world's greatest superhero.

I would also make it where Clark/Superman and Lois Lane have a child, and its brought into DC continuity. DC comics has danced around this issue for so many years, its not even funny. I think DC needs to push the envelope, and finally allow it to happen. They've been married for nearly 10 years now. They both want to have kids really badly. So, I think it should happen. I think it would make for some great storylines, in the sense that:

1) Will the kid have the potential to become even more powerful than Superman, himself?

2) With everything going on in the DCU right now, as far as the villains, especially Lex, going after Superman, a kid would bring some complications, since these villains would go after this kid just to get to Superman. Since Superman does have strong family values and is adament about protecting his family, he would be adament about protecting his wife and his kid.

I think a kid would bring joy, yet conflict to Clark and Lois' marriage which IMO, is needed. I think they need a new dynamic in their marriage, where they would face some conflicts that would arise from having a kid, and will have to go through that together, to make their relationship stronger. With everything that's going on in the DCU right now, I think it would be perfect.

Besides, I think it can be done. I think they can have it where the kid has no powers when he/she is born (the kid is not exposed to sunlight while he was in Lois' womb) and the kid gaining his or her abilities when they are older.

I agree that a kid in Clark and Lois' life would bring a new dynamic to the relationship. And as you said, DC has played with this idea in the from of Elseworlds so many times it's not even funny. However, not being able to have a kid would also bring (hell, it should have brought already) complications to the marriage too, don't you think? Wanting to have a kid very badly, but not being able to. Besides, I think that Superman's son, were he to have one, wouldn't be as powerful as his faher. Why? Because he's not a pure Kryptonian. He also would have human DNA, which doesn't have the properties the Kryptonian DNA has.

[jade_nova]

My take on him would be more in line with his Golden Age origins. The truth about his origins would be a mystery. I might keep the Golden Age idea of his parents dead so they won't tell him who he really is. I would keep most of his powers except for flying. I would have him able to jump far distances and if lucky able to catch a breeze and glide. I may or may not keep the x-ray vision and the heat vision.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

My take on him would be more in line with his Golden Age origins. The truth about his origins would be a mystery. I might keep the Golden Age idea of his parents dead so they won't tell him who he really is. I would keep most of his powers except for flying. I would have him able to jump far distances and if lucky able to catch a breeze and glide. I may or may not keep the x-ray vision and the heat vision.

Hmmm... very interesting. His origins being a complete mystery to him. So, where would he get the S symbol from? And how strong would he be? Just like the Golden Age Superman or a little stronger?

[Supes35]

I agree that a kid in Clark and Lois' life would bring a new dynamic to the relationship. And as you said, DC has played with this idea in the from of Elseworlds so many times it's not even funny. However, not being able to have a kid would also bring (hell, it should have brought already) complications to the marriage too, don't you think? Wanting to have a kid very badly, but not being able to. Besides, I think that Superman's son, were he to have one, wouldn't be as powerful as his faher. Why? Because he's not a pure Kryptonian. He also would have human DNA, which doesn't have the properties the Kryptonian DNA has.


I think them having a kid would bring a totally new dynamic to the marriage, because it show that its not all about Superman, anymore. Not only does he have a wife, but he actually has a kid to protect.

I think it would give the chance to show Superman's family side, and just how much family means to him, since he was brought up in a family atmosphere. At the same time, I think that with everything going on in the DCU, and with the stakes being raised a bit as far as the villains going after every hero, you know that brining a kid in the world would put Superman's family at risk even more. Being the family guy Superman is, a guy who loves his wife above all, and would love having a kid, would definately be pushed to the edge, if either of them are threatened. I want to see Superman pushed to the edge in that regard, and make it believable, to where you would understand if he became hardnosed towards a particular villain and was pushed to the boiling point, if his wife and definately his son or daughter, were threatened.

[Supes35]

My take on him would be more in line with his Golden Age origins. The truth about his origins would be a mystery. I might keep the Golden Age idea of his parents dead so they won't tell him who he really is. I would keep most of his powers except for flying. I would have him able to jump far distances and if lucky able to catch a breeze and glide. I may or may not keep the x-ray vision and the heat vision.


I think the Golden Age stuff is outdated, personally.

I think the current origin is fine, and it looks like the new crisis is going to expand on the current continuity, and actually solidify it even more.

[Napolean Blownapart]

I'd make it mostly about Clark Kent. He'd be Clark Kent 75% of the time and when he does the Superman thing it'd be for a reason. I'd make it a kind of 3 characters in one Superman. Clark the mild mannered bumbling mask; Clark the top notch reporter, responcible man and husband, and constantly hiding what's special about him from others; and Superman the guy Clark turns too when he can't do it as Clark. Superman would be like a cop's gun, only fired when it has too be, and then over really quick. The rest of the story would be Clark investigating or finding a problem and doing his best to solve it as Clark.

Powers would be a cross between Pre Crisis Silver age and Post Crisis current level. I'd have him doing amazing feats worthy of the title Super, but no impossibly rediculous world spinning non-sense.

I'd make Clark the mask and Superman behave so differently that no one would ever catch on that they're the same person, even with their pictures side by side in the Planet.
Clark the mask would be like Chris Reeves' Clark. Clark the reporter would be like a cross between Dean Cain and George Reeve's Clarks. And Superman would be like a sentient tornado with the soul of a fireman.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I think them having a kid would bring a totally new dynamic to the marriage, because it show that its not all about Superman, anymore. Not only does he have a wife, but he actually has a kid to protect.

I think it would give the chance to show Superman's family side, and just how much family means to him, since he was brought up in a family atmosphere. At the same time, I think that with everything going on in the DCU, and with the stakes being raised a bit as far as the villains going after every hero, you know that brining a kid in the world would put Superman's family at risk even more. Being the family guy Superman is, a guy who loves his wife above all, and would love having a kid, would definately be pushed to the edge, if either of them are threatened. I want to see Superman pushed to the edge in that regard, and make it believable, to where you would understand if he became hardnosed towards a particular villain and was pushed to the boiling point, if his wife and definately his son or daughter, were threatened.

Point taken. Actually, threats to his family are one of the few things that can make Superman go mad.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I'd make it mostly about Clark Kent. He'd be Clark Kent 75% of the time and when he does the Superman thing it'd be for a reason. I'd make it a kind of 3 characters in one Superman. Clark the mild mannered bumbling mask; Clark the top notch reporter, responcible man and husband, and constantly hiding what's special about him from others; and Superman the guy Clark turns too when he can't do it as Clark. Superman would be like a cop's gun, only fired when it has too be, and then over really quick. The rest of the story would be Clark investigating or finding a problem and doing his best to solve it as Clark.

Powers would be a cross between Pre Crisis Silver age and Post Crisis current level. I'd have him doing amazing feats worthy of the title Super, but no impossibly rediculous world spinning non-sense.

I'd make Clark the mask and Superman behave so differently that no one would ever catch on that they're the same person, even with their pictures side by side in the Planet.
Clark the mask would be like Chris Reeves' Clark. Clark the reporter would be like a cross between Dean Cain and George Reeve's Clarks. And Superman would be like a sentient tornado with the soul of a fireman.

Sueprman acting different wih every "aspect" is very Siler Age-ish. Reminds me a lot of the Chris Reeve movies. Not bad at all, but sometimes even I got tired of Clark's attitude back in the day. Especially in Superman IV, where the difference was more than evident. I like the Post-Crisis Clark's attitude. Smart, serious, sometimes funny, but nowhere near the almost-cold like Superman (as portrayed by Azzarello and in "Strength").

That's a very good idea, though. It would make even harder for people to know Big Blue's secret ID.

[stealthwise]

Smart, serious, sometimes funny, but nowhere near the almost-cold like Superman (as portrayed by Azzarello and in "Strength").


Superman was "almost-cold like" in Strength? I think that you need to reread that series. :)

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Superman was "almost-cold like" in Strength? I think that you need to reread that series. :)

Hehehe...

BTW, I think Strength is a good read.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

So, since I hadn't posted my view on Superman, I brought the thread back from the dead. Let's see:

1. Superman is not nearly as powerful as a god. He IS as powerful as a god.
2. With time, he will become impervious to Kryptonite.
3. Taking one of GUTB's points, Superman jobs to NOBODY. He may lose, but there will be NO jobbing.
4. NO ONE (except Darkseid and ABOVE), is "nearly" as powerful as Superman. Not Captain Marvel, not Diana, not J'Onn. NOBODY.
5. Superman is a scientist. The Kryptonian tech is the most advanced tech in the WHOLE galaxy. He's as intelligent as his father, Jor-El, who was the most prominent scientist of Krypton.
6. Taking another of GUTB's lines, there's no tugging on Superman's cape without severe consequences.
7. When Superman speaks, the world listens. Not because he's a dictator, but because, hell, he's SUPERMAN.
8. The UN may call Superman in order to adjudicate in international disagreements.
9. Some people worship Superman, although he doesn't like it. There's a cult that worships him. Many people love him, due to his love for mankind. Many people hate him, because they don't understand him and/or envy him, and many people fear him, because he could take over the Earth whenever he wanted to.
10. Superman goes to space often. He's also kind of a cosmic hero, due to his inmense power, and because, hell, HE CAN GO TO SPACE.
11. Superman is a special Kryptonian. He's the direct descendant of Rao (there would be no doubts regarding this subject). He would be more powerful than any other Kryptonian under a star that is not red.
12. Superman is the *only* Kryptonian left IN THE UNIVERSE. No, there's no Kara Zor-El, or any other Kryptonian, for that matter.
13. Superman knows the truth about all the mysteries in the world. He knows if the monster of Loch Ness, Sasquatch/Big Foot, Ogopogo, and whatever, indeed exist. Actually, all of them are in The Fortress, to protect them from mankind. he also knows what lies underneath The Sphinx and in the secret chamber in the Great Pyramid in Egypt. He just won't tell. He likes how mankind dreams about it, and he just doesn't want to blow it. He also has the Titanic in the Fortress (yeah, I liked that detail from the Superman 2000 project).
14. The Fortress Of Solitude is in a place no one can get to, and no one can locate. The only ones who know of its existence and location, is because Superman wants them to know.
15. Superman thinks super-fast (again, there would be no doubts regarding this matter). He can see all of the outcomes of any given situation, and chooses the best course of action,all in a matter of seconds.
16. Superman doesn't deal with mundane threats very often, although he always keeps an eye on Metropolis. He might decide to intervene, if there's no other hero around at the time. So, in order to achieve this, I would make The Question a Metropolis citizen. I would bring back Rose And Thorn, and The Creeper would also stay. Vigilante would be there as well. The same for Superboy, Steel and The Guardian. Hell, I would bring the Alpha Centurion back.
17. No alien Armada is a match for Superman. Superman can move entire planets, ignite stars with his HV or blow them of with his Arctic Breath. He can take a planet's atmosphere away. Hell, he can destroy a planet, as easily as a hot knife cutting butter, with his bare hands. And no, there's no super-charging for this.
18. He is, without any shadow of doubt, the iconic leader of ALL superheroes, because of his passion, wisdom and charisma.
19. If Superman says something, make no mistake, he's right about it. Again, not because he's a dictator, but because he's always right. :)
20. A supernova explosion does NOTHING to Superman. A multi-megaton H bomb could explode in his face, and he would smile.
21. There would be no Toyman and no Prankster. All of his enemies would be either geniuses (a la Lex Luthor) or gods/cosmic beings/whatever as powerful as he (a la Darkseid and Imperiex).
22. Imperiex would still live.

So? What do you guys think? I may edit this post later, if I come up with something else.