Which Marvel heroine is more iconic?

[Brian R]

When New Avengers came out, a lot of people questioned the inclusion of Spider-Woman in light of some of Bendis' earlier comments about ridding the team of "b-list" characters. Yet, the team clearly needs at least one woman, doesnt it?

So, which Marvel heroine do you feel is most iconic, and therefore would have been the logical choice to round out the New Avengers? Remember, you are not voting for who you like more, but who is more iconic/recognizeable.

If you choose "other", then please post who you did pick and why. Also, if you choose someone from the list, feel free to tell us why she would have been the better choice.

[Tenebrae]

Whilst Marvel doesn't have a female character anywhere near the iconic status of Wonder Woman, I'd have to go with She-Hulk. She has the best chance of being recognised by the mainstream public, partly because of her similarity to her cousin, the Hulk, and partly because she's appeared in Marvel promotions and endorsements so often.

Jean Grey, Storm, Mystique and Elektra are probably a lot more recognisable these days than they once were thanks to the movies, and even without the films Storm would be pretty high on a list of iconic comic females. I'd probably peg her as She-Hulk's nearest rival, which is pretty impressive for a character not linked to an iconic male character.

Within the comic reading community, there are other characters who'd be considered pretty iconic too, I'd reckon. Wasp, Spider-Woman, Shadowcat, Invisible Woman and Scarlet Witch are pretty major icons, but outside the industry I suspect most people would have no clue who Wasp and Scarlet Witch are, would only have a chance of knowing Shadowcat and Invisible Woman by their team affiliations, and would likely only be familiar with the concept of a Spider-Woman rather than an image of her.

All of which is a long-winded way of saying Shulkie gets my vote. :p

If this were about how much I like the characters, though, from that list it'd be Monica for sure. She rules.

[chicainery]

Sadly, none of the above are iconic. I doubt that random people from the street would know who any of these women are.

I would bet that Storm would have the best chance of being recognized outside of a Local Comic Shop.

[Brian R]

Sadly, none of the above are iconic. I doubt that random people from the street would know who any of these women are.

I would bet that Storm would have the best chance of being recognized outside of a Local Comic Shop.

Notice I asked which was more iconic. I know none of them are truly icons, but which of them comes closest in your opinion?

[berk]

I have to agree with everyone else: none of them are iconic at all, so it's meaningless (IMO) to ask which is more iconic than the others. Zero is zero. Marvel has no iconic female characters. If you asked me which Marvel heroines deserved to be iconic, based on their individual conceptions and potentials (not on how they've been written in the majority of their story appearances), I'd say Thena, Mantis, and Moondragon. And no, I don't think it's a coincidence that these are three of the least popular, most ignored, and in Moondragon's case most actively disliked characters in Marvel comics. That's one of the reasons MArvel never will have a real female icon: the audience isn't receptive to female characters with iconic potential.

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

That's a tough question. I voted "Spiderwoman" only because she had a cartoon at one time and that makes her the only one of the above to even come close to being recognized by the general public. But I agree with chicainery that Storm is probably the most "iconic" Marvel heroine now, with Elektra an outside possibility only because of Jennifer Garner's popularity, not because of the sucky movie. Female heroes in the MU generally get a rough time of it. I always thought that Phoenix and Ms. Marvel had a lot of potential, but Marvel did their best to (what's the female equivalent of "emasculate?") tear them down, i.e. killing Phoenix and then bringing her back in a half-assed way at a lower power level and having Immortus knock Carol up and then letting Rogue steal her powers, not to mention turning her into an alcoholic. Not exactly ways to build up your heroines. IMO Marvel should have brought Phoenix back at full power and given her either a solo book or shot in the Avengers. I always liked the original costume and it would be nice to see a female hero who equals Thor in power. Ms. Marvel/Warbird, too, has great potential. I always hated the "Ms. Marvel" name and not crazy about "Warbird" either, but Carol has a strong personality and good backstory. I think she deserves another shot at her own book.

[Atom_basher]

I voted for storm, shes the closest thing to marvel's girl, think of advetising, she is usually the marvel female they use.

[BlackKnight]

I voted for she-hulk
1. She is the female version of Hulk, so recognizable for that reason.
2. She made many appearances in the Hulk Cartoon that was much more recent then the SW cartoon.

[surt_son]

I'm going to have to agree with Dr. Hfuhruhurr, and vote for Phoenix. I'd also steal most of the things he said regarding Ms. Marvel and thrown that towards Phoenix too. The Phoenix on the Avengers? Rock on - she should replace the Sentry.

~t

[tricksterpup]

I would have to vote for Aunt May being the most ICONIC female Character. She is by far the most known female lead in Marvel comics, right up there with Lois Lane.
But if you want to go with Female Superheroes, I would have to vote with the following, Store, Jean Grey and Rogue, due to the popularity of the X-men Movie, and After this summer? I have to guess possibly Susan Storm after the Fantastic Four film.
For me, the Word Iconic would mean a character that is World known, and Marvel doesn't really have any characters that fall under that category.
Again stated, the only Marvel Character that would fall under that wording is Aunt May.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

I agree, no female costumed adventurer in Marvel is truly iconic, and it saddens me to say that in all of comicdom, there's only one female that truly embodies ICON, in the same sense that Supes,Bats and Spidey does: Wonder Woman.

I

[Shellhead]

I have to agree with everyone else: none of them are iconic at all, so it's meaningless (IMO) to ask which is more iconic than the others. Zero is zero. Marvel has no iconic female characters.

That is the stone cold truth of the matter.

DC has at least two iconic female characters: Wonder Woman and Lois Lane.

[Artemis1]

She-Hulk wins this one.

[Gaz]

That is the stone cold truth of the matter.

DC has at least two iconic female characters: Wonder Woman and Lois Lane.
If Lois is an issue, then MJ is getting there.
And Marvel's main problem is a lack of female heroes in long-running solo titles.
I love Storm, Jessica Jones and She-Hulk, but none of them had really long solo runs compared to Spidey, Cap or Iron Man.

[Spiderchick1974]

Honestly, I don't know how iconic I would call Lois or MJ...ICON is basically an IMAGE that's universally recognized, even without necessarily knowing the name immediately... part of what makes superheroes icons are their immediately recognizable costumes .
If we put an atractive brunette next to Superman, and an atractive redhead next to Spidey MAYBE a lot of people might say Lois lane and MJ, but honestly....taken away from the context of their superpowered lovers, wouldn't they physically seem like any other atractive brunette and readhead?
I'm just saying this coming from the perspective of what the word ICON intrinsically means...
I do admit that MJ and LOIS are two of the most famous, if not the most famous of all supporting players in comics.

[Cyc]

Of the listed, She-Hulk and Spider-woman I are the closest to iconic status, mostly because they have distinctive looks which they've stuck with (Jessica's costume and Jen's skin color) and have had mainstream media appearences.

I fail to see how any of the X-men women can come close, mostly because apart from Storm seemingly retaining her her arm flap wing things, they don't have a distinct unchanging look.

Cyc

[Tenebrae]

I fail to see how any of the X-men women can come close, mostly because apart from Storm seemingly retaining her her arm flap wing things, they don't have a distinct unchanging look.

Cyc

I'd say the fact that Storm is a flying black woman with white hair is what distinguishes her, probably. Plus, the general public probably aren't paying close enough attention to notice her costume changes through the years.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

Going by what spiderchick said and what Cyc pointed out, I would also name She-hulk and Spider-Woman as the closest to a bordering-on-iconic female, they have both had Media appearnces beyond comics and they have both kept a look that have been basically unchanged for years and years.
If Marvel had been steady and nurturing with their original comic books (which if they had continued to be published uninterrupted, would both be close to 300 issues), they would probably be full-fledged female icons today.

Storm has a look that is both striking and memorable, physically, though...

[ghostrider666]

I'd say She-Hulk. Or Invisable Woman, who wasnt on the list.

[Tenebrae]

I'd say She-Hulk. Or Invisable Woman, who wasnt on the list.

Within the comic industry the Inivisible Woman is definitely an icon, but to the public I doubt most are aware of her (the movie aside, I've no idea if its out or been successful in the States). Even as a part of the Fantastic Four, all three of the men would be more easily recognisable than Sue. Poor lamb does spend half her time invisible after all. ;)

Also, the public might be aware of the concept of an Invisible Woman (or Girl) but would probably assume she's a sidekick of the Invisible Man. :rolleyes:

[Smarty Jones]

I've been campaigning for Storm to be an Avenger for years, for these reasons:

* Of all the female superheroes, she is arguably the least likely one to be dependent upon a theme. Even though she's been an X-Man longer than any other, most people I know think of Cyclops, Wolverine and Phoenix when I say "X-Men." The Invisible Woman is linked with The Fantastic Four, She-Hulk reminds readers of her male counterpart, The Wasp is the female partner of Hank Pym, etc.

* Her power levels are formidable and would fit in with the classic Avengers lineup without being overpowering. She especially could fit in with the weather controlling department with Thor out of the picture. While The Scarlet Witch fits this category, the nature of her reality-altering powers can make her too much a deus ex machina -- a notion reinforced by writers' different interpretation over Wanda Maximoff's abilities over the years.

* She's had extensive experience leading a superhuman team. Characters like Spider-Woman cannot claim that, and such history would make it feasible to see her making orders to even Captain America and Iron Man.

* She may be the most recognized black superheroine in the industry. Making her an Avenger could give a writer the opportunity to exploit that.

* She's way overdue for character development. Storm has been locked in the same mode for nearly 20 years.

[Tenebrae]

As she's easily my favourite character, I have to agree wholeheartedly with Smarty Jones on Storm. She seems perpetually to be left in the shadows of others in the X-titles, and, as has been discussed, she's one of Marvel's premier heroes. I'd actually say she's the most recognisable black character in comics, including the men, but she also isn't defined by that alone. There's a lot more to Ororo than that.

She deserves a lot more spotlight, and her power levels, strength of character, experience and confidence make her a perfect fit on the Avengers. She certainly makes a lot more sense than Wolverine and the fact that she's questioned the methods of Xavier and the X-Men in recent years means that it wouldn't be out of character for her to find a different way. After all, what's more in keeping with Xavier's dream than a mutant working alongside humans and superhumans in one unit?

I could wax lyrical about Storm all day but I shall restrain myself. She'd be perfect on Avengers. Nuff said.

[Will.S]

Heh, remember that Marvel vs DC event where whoever gets the most votes won? Storm beat Wonder Woman....that was hilarious but it kind of goes to show that Storm even back then was somewhat more popular than any other marvel heroine.

It's a tie for me between Storm and She-Hulk though so I can't decide yet.

[Brian R]

Good points about Storm, I also have wanted her on the Avengers, and was hoping for it when I heard about New Avengers. The only reason that she(or Jean) is not on the list is because she is an X-Man at the moment, and unlike Mr. Bendis I do not support putting characters into two teams at once.


However, a storyline where Storm left the X-Men(I mean, its not like it hard to fill the roster spot, there are ten times more mutants than Avengers) to join the Avengers would be terrific. I voted She-Hulk on the list, but Storm is more iconic, I have to admit, and on her own merits mostly as apposed to She-Hulk or Spider-Woman. Man, now I am having visions of an exceptional Avengers roster(for me anyway):

Captain America
Iron Man
Black Panther
Storm
Hulk
Sentry

You have the icons in Cap, Tony, and Hulk. Black Panther is the best african superhero ever, who has ties to Storm, who is in turn the most well-known Marvel heroine. And then you have Sentry(love him or hate him) who represents the Superman analogue, but more importantly makes it possible to have the Hulk on board. I am petitioning Marvel right away. :D

[BlueOrange25]

Sadly, none of the above are iconic. I doubt that random people from the street would know who any of these women are.


I'm inclined to agree with you. I think the only heroine that may be best known outside of comic book fans may possibly be Mary-Jane Watson.

[Blink85]

Invisible Woman, but the fact of the matter is Super Girl, Catwoman and Wonder Woman are the female superheros that I consider to be iconic.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

Storm is a great character, but will someone please PLEASE tell artists to stop drawing her as a caucasian woman painted dark brown?
I'm sick of seeing a full-fledged African woman being depicted with caucasian features...she is an African Goddess, not a cookie-cutter white heroine that the colorists simply paint dark.

[Smarty Jones]

"Storm is a great character, but will someone please PLEASE tell artists to stop drawing her as a caucasian woman painted dark brown?
I'm sick of seeing a full-fledged African woman being depicted with caucasian features...she is an African Goddess, not a cookie-cutter white heroine that the colorists simply paint dark."

If anything, Storm is written as if she is a Caucasian woman in the X-books. Not only is she rarely interacting with other black people and having little resemblance to an Afrocentric lifestyle (which is odd, considering prior to joining The X-Men she lived with black people all her life), but the few times I have seen her interacting with other African-descent people have not been overwhelmingly positive. That, combined with her love interests (she's dated men of other races and species, but never a black man), make it hard for me to embrace her.

[Shellhead]

Storm is a great character, but will someone please PLEASE tell artists to stop drawing her as a caucasian woman painted dark brown?
I'm sick of seeing a full-fledged African woman being depicted with caucasian features...she is an African Goddess, not a cookie-cutter white heroine that the colorists simply paint dark.

I disagree. By your logic, Nightcrawler should have white skin and blond hair. Storm is not a normal African woman, she is a mutant. That's why she has been depicted with blue eyes and white hair.

Smarty has an excellent point about how Storm has been written, and I blame that on the oppressive domination of Chris Claremont on the X-books for two decades plus.

[mgs]

most, i sai wasp and second being the black widow, in terms of overall marvel u. some of the others are more specific to the x universe. wasp is iconic if only for her longevity with the team and for being the yin to giant man's yang, no pun intended ;) , but really, her small size and his big size is the iconic stuff of sci-fi fantasy that comes out more often than not, in other genre like books and movies and stuff.

[Tenebrae]

Storm is a great character, but will someone please PLEASE tell artists to stop drawing her as a caucasian woman painted dark brown?
I'm sick of seeing a full-fledged African woman being depicted with caucasian features...she is an African Goddess, not a cookie-cutter white heroine that the colorists simply paint dark.

I think part of Storm's ancestry of African priestesses (its that which gave her blue eyes and white hair rather than her mutant nature, and may also suggest a potential for magic ability, though that's never been touched on to my knowledge) also made her features more Caucasian. I could be totally wrong about that, though. I've just done a little research and can't find any information backing that up, but I do remember a response on a letters page years ago giving that answer when asked why Storm isn't drawn with African features.

[Smarty Jones]

"I think part of Storm's ancestry of African priestesses (its that which gave her blue eyes and white hair rather than her mutant nature, and may also suggest a potential for magic ability, though that's never been touched on to my knowledge) also made her features more Caucasian."

Here is the problem with trying to explain Storm's features: There is this assumption most non-black readers have that all African-descent people have the same stereotypical features (broad nose, large lips). Not all black people have those type of features, so it's silly to try to address something I don't see as an issue.

By trying to say Storm's features "aren't black" or "are Caucasian," you're casting a message that suggests "she's different from other black folk" or "she's beyond being black." All it does is cause even more resistance with black readers toward Storm, which is the true obstacle in her acceptance as a top-shelf character.

If there is anything to discuss concerning the depiction of black characters in comics, why not address the fact all the black people are shown with the same complexion (chestnut brown skin tone)? Black people come in all shades of brown, ranging from yellowish and reddish undertones to even darker shades.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

I disagree. By your logic, Nightcrawler should have white skin and blond hair. Storm is not a normal African woman, she is a mutant. That's why she has been depicted with blue eyes and white hair.

Smarty has an excellent point about how Storm has been written, and I blame that on the oppressive domination of Chris Claremont on the X-books for two decades plus.
Well, I guess part of her mutations involves that 10 % of the time her features look like African, but the rest of the time she does look like a white woman painted black.
That's what happened...very few artists have actually gotten her right, but most still draw her with caucasian features...

[Smarty Jones]

"Well, I guess part of her mutations involves that 10 % of the time her features look like African, but the rest of the time she does look like a white woman painted black.
That's what happened...very few artists have actually gotten her right, but most still draw her with caucasian features..."

As a black person, I will say I have no problems with how Storm is drawn. I have a problem with how she is written.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

[color=darkred][font=arial]Here is the problem with trying to explain Storm's features: There is this assumption most non-black readers have that all African-descent people have the same stereotypical features (broad nose, large lips). Not all black people have those type of features, so it's silly to try to address something I don't see as an issue.



But correct me if I'm wrong here, cuz maybe I'm using the wrong terms: Isn't Storm fully African, and not just "of African descent"?

[Smarty Jones]

"But correct me if I'm wrong here, cuz maybe I'm using the wrong terms: Isn't Storm fully African, and not just 'of African descent'?"

The terms basically mean the same thing in regard to Storm's race. She has African ancestry (both of her parents are black, and presumably the majority -- if not the entirety -- of her racial heritage is black).

In terms of categorizing Storm in a national sense, her father is a black man from the United States and her mother is a black woman from Kenya.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

The terms basically mean the same thing in regard to Storm's race -- she is a black woman with African ancestry.

In terms of categorizing Storm in a national sense, her father is a black man from the United States and her mother is a black woman from Kenya.
Thanks.

Has it been shown what her father's ancestry is?
Is he a late generation African-American, an African who got an American citizenship or what?

Personally, I would love to see more Africans or African-Americans depicted as very dark,with broad noses and big lips, not because I think that's how all Africans look, but because in comics, it seems that most minority characters are simply caucasians with a little tan...

I would LOVE to see Storm being depicted with either Naomi Campbell's or Sade's face (I know, I know, they aren't full-fledged African) with either Djimon Hounsou's or Omar Epps skin tone....
then I wouldn't have a problem with the straight platinum hair and the blue eyes (and I am sorry, I don't buy the "her eyes and straight hair is because she is a mutant" excuse)

In any case, and to go back on topic, I think that Marvel could esily make Storm an icon...she already has a striking look...I wish she had her own solo book, man!

[Smarty Jones]

"Has it been shown what her father's ancestry is? Is he a late generation African-American, an African who got an American citizenship or what?"

David Munroe was an African-American.

"Personally, I would love to see more Africans or African-Americans depicted as very dark,with broad noses and big lips, not because I think that's how all Africans look, but because in comics, it seems that most minority characters are simply caucasians with a little tan..."

IMO, that's stereotypical. How many black people -- regardless of nationality -- do you see every day? Black people come in a variety of skin colors, from very dark to very light (sometimes vaguely resembling a Caucasian). From Michael Jordan to Adam Clayton Powell and everything in between.

"....then I wouldn't have a problem with the straight platinum hair and the blue eyes (and I am sorry, I don't buy the "her eyes and straight hair is because she is a mutant" excuse).

You don't have to; Storm is the descendant of an ancient line of African priestesses, all of whom have white hair and blue eyes. In other words, her most distinguishing features aren't a mutation.

[Tenebrae]

Here is the problem with trying to explain Storm's features: There is this assumption most non-black readers have that all African-descent people have the same stereotypical features (broad nose, large lips). Not all black people have those type of features, so it's silly to try to address something I don't see as an issue.

By trying to say Storm's features "aren't black" or "are Caucasian," you're casting a message that suggests "she isn't black" or "she's beyond being black." All it does is cause even more resistance with black readers toward Storm, which is the true obstacle in her acceptance as a top-shelf character.

I wasn't attempting to cast any messages, just relaying information I'd come across in the past.

[Smarty Jones]

"I wasn't attempting to cast any messages, just relaying information I'd come across in the past."

I didn't mean it as if I was confronting you; I was addressing the audience in general.

This issue of Storm's features has been discussed a lot on various forums, that her features are "Caucasian" or "she's a mix of other races" -- which is ridiculous, as you correctly have pointed out that the blue eyes and white hair are part of her ancestors' magical heritage.

[Tenebrae]

I didn't mean it as if I was confronting you; I was addressing the audience in general.

This issue of Storm's features has been discussed a lot on various forums, that her features are "Caucasian" or "she's a mix of other races" -- which is ridiculous, as you correctly have pointed out that the blue eyes and white hair are part of her ancestors' magical heritage.

Ah, sorry about that. A little over touchy after a bad day. :o

[Shevek]

Storm's features as they are drawn are actually pretty accurate for an East African (eg. Somali/Ethiopian) woman. I know a few people from those countries who literally do look like Nordic white people (very tall and thin, long thin nose, narrow lips) except for Afro hair and skin tone. Look at that Somali model (can't remember her name but she was "hot" about 3-4 years ago) or pictures of the Ethiopian Emperor Haile Selassie.

Of course, if her father was African-American he was probably of West African (via the slave trade) descent, but it's fairly plausible that if her mother's line is a potentially magical line of priestesses then her mother's would override her father's genes...

Ororo is definitely the most iconic Marvel female superhero IMO. The only others that come close are Invisible Woman (who is too integral a part of the Fantastic 4 to see as a solo character) and Phoenix (who was most famous for turning villain). She-Hulk and Spider-Girl, although iconic characters among the comic-reading crowd who have learnt that silly name and gimmicky power origin doesn't preclude good and intelligent story, are incapable of being true icons in their own right simply because they will always be in the shadow of their male counterparts (just as in the DC world Supergirl and Batgirl are).

Unless (the heroes formerly known as) She-Hulk or Spider-Woman were to dissociate themselves from their male "inspirations" by deciding on a change of name...

[Atom_basher]

As a black person, I will say I have no problems with how Storm is drawn. I have a problem with how she is written.

I am also black, and have no problem with how she is written personally.

BUT storm should be an avenger, and happens to be marvels most popular female, she has been played by an oscar winner in 2 movies, was on TWO sucessful long running cartoons, she is famous without relying on male counter parts like she hulk and Spider Woman, (yeah yeah yeah, she isnt really connected to spidey, but casual people wont know that). Storm is also in the advertisemts as marvels main chick like the new credit card commerical, and all the universal studios commericals. consider all that AND the fact that she is a black female with white hair, and blue eyes, who flies, controls weather, and has lead her own team for years, the first marvel female heroine to do so (as far as I know) and in the amalgam universe she was chosen to be merged with DC's head chick in charge.

I think all these qualify storm as marvels HWIC

Id say all that make storm the tops among marvel females

[LordAllMighty]

How do you like that, Storm is a female comicbook ICON. It really didn’t dawn on me until someone brought up the voting contest between Storm and Wonder Woman.

Think about that?

Wonder Woman has been around since 1941, had her own show and was part of a popular cartoon series with a semi-successful comicbook. Add on the fact that through out the world she is the most recognized heroin on the planet.

Storm on the other hand has been around almost half the amount of time and more then likely most of her popularity comes from her cartoon role in the early 90. Because she is a black woman with white hair, she is the most recognized female in all of Marvel. Lets not forget that unlike others who where mention she has no male counterpart to explain her popularity.

Its strange how thing fall into place…Huh?

Now that I’ve said this, next month story will deal with Storm finding out that she is the long lost sister of Thor.

[Brian R]

How you do like that, Storm is a female comicbook ICON. It really didn’t dawn on me until someone brought up the voting contest between Storm and Wonder Woman.

Think about that?

Wonder Woman has been around since 1941, had her own show and was part of a popular cartoon series with a semi-successful comicbook. Add on the fact that through out the world she is the most recognized heroin on the planet.

Storm on the other hand has been around almost half the amount of time and more then likely most of her popularity comes from her cartoon role in the early 90. Because she is a black woman with white hair, she is the most recognized female in all of Marvel. Lets not forget that unlike others who where mention she has no male counterpart to explain her popularity.

Its strange how thing fall into place…Huh?

Now that I’ve said this, next month story will deal with Storm finding out that she is the long lost sister of Thor.


You have to take into account one thing about that voting in which she beat out Wonder Woman: it was comic book fans who were voting. I have no problem believing that Storm is more popular than WW among our community, but she is not in the same league as far as regular folk are concerned. I will say though, that with the X-Men films doing so well, she is certainly gaining ground. She really is Marvel's most recognized heroine, I guess I never realized to what degree before, but I think in terms of being "iconic" she is way ahead of Jessica or Jen.

[LordAllMighty]

You have to take into account one thing about that voting in which she beat out Wonder Woman: it was comic book fans who were voting.

That makes it even worst, comicbook fans should have logically voted for Wonder Woman but didn't they vote for Storm.

I have no problem believing that Storm is more popular than WW among our community, but she is not in the same league as far as regular folk are concerned. I will say though, that with the X-Men films doing so well, she is certainly gaining ground.

I agree.

She really is Marvel's most recognized heroine, I guess I never realized to what degree before, but I think in terms of being "iconic" she is way ahead of Jessica or Jen.

I agree again.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

Again, how recognizable is Storm outside of comic fans' circles?

The X-men films were hits, but I have asked many many people outside the comics industry to name me a female superhero, and the ONLY name that comes up is Wonder Woman.

[Eumenide No 2]

Storm could be an icon.

[Huzzah!]

If you said storm of the x-men, because of all the comics and all those who have read, plus the cartoons, plus the movies i think you would have a pretty good response.

However wonderwoman has been around since like the 40s, storm has been around since like 75.

That being said what is this topic about and how did i read the last page not knowing and yet commented on it anyway (rhetorical question)

:p

[BobC]

I can't think of anybody better than Storm, but that's mainly because there's nobody else. Even though Storm was in both X-Men movies, she didn't do much and didn't really come off as powerful as she is in comics. I personally think Jean Grey got more attention and came off better in the movie.

[Kirk G]

Sadly, none of the above are iconic. I doubt that random people from the street would know who any of these women are.

I would bet that Storm would have the best chance of being recognized outside of a Local Comic Shop.

I agree that most people outside of the comic shop crowd, would not recognise most of these characters... therefore, I have to go with the one that has the highest name recognition factor....the Black Widow....

Talk about an icon.... what an awful rep to have to overcome...

Natasha: "Here, let's have dinner, Clint...."

Clint: "Er, no that's...I've got to run...

Natasha: "Say, Cap, let me freshen your drink...

Cap: "That's quite alright, uh, I've got to go... pressing business..."

Natasha: "Hey, Tony, let's slip out of that amour and into something more comfortable..."

Tony: "Shuck, Natasha, I just remembered an urgent board meeting..."

Natasha: "Say, Hank, just how big do you really get?"

Hank: "Well, I was wondering when someone would get around to that..."

Jan: "Just a minute you hussy.... he's mine!!!!"

Natasha: "Damn! I'm not really bad, I'm just drawn that way...."

"Nick: "Don't worry, baby, I'll just close my eye to your past.... URRKKK!" :rolleyes:

[Den]

Wow, I have to agree with those who say Marvel doesn't really have a female icon. As for who is MORE Iconic, I gues that varies depending on who you ask, in my opinion if we're counting just being known about, Mary Jane.

However, if the Fantastic Four movie is a success, we might yet see the Invisible Woman make a come back in the public eye a bit.

[Kirk G]

However, if the Fantastic Four movie is a success, we might yet see the Invisible Woman make a come back in the public eye a bit.

I don't think she's visible enough.... :rolleyes:

[Den]

I don't think she's visible enough.... :rolleyes:

*Rimshot*

Guess I set that one up.

[Eumenide No 2]

If Marvel really wanted, Storm would be an icon:
She isn't an "offshoot" of a male character.
She has a striking, very unique look in comics.

If Marvel had bothered to give her a book and NURTURE it, to keep it alive through all these years, and If she had kept the costume that she was seen first in(IMO, one of the best costumes ever, simple and elegant, stylish and memorable) and if the X-men films had portrayed her as the regal, commanding, powerful woman she is,and given her some decent lines, the story would be different today...

[tricksterpup]

If Marvel really wanted, Storm would be an icon:
She isn't an "offshoot" of a male character.
She has a striking, very unique look in comics.

If Marvel had bothered to give her a book and NURTURE it, to keep it alive through all these years, and If she had kept the costume that she was seen first in(IMO, one of the best costumes ever, simple and elegant, stylish and memorable) and if the X-men films had portrayed her as the regal, commanding, powerful woman she is,and given her some decent lines, the story would be different today...
Hey I am all for that, I would say give to Rucka or Kirkman. I am sure they could make it an interesting female book but then again, we know how female books last.. short term. I think the longest running female books have been she-hulk and cat woman besides Wonder Woman.

[Eumenide No 2]

Hey I am all for that, I would say give to Rucka or Kirkman. I am sure they could make it an interesting female book but then again, we know how female books last.. short term. I think the longest running female books have been she-hulk and cat woman besides Wonder Woman.

Frankly, IMO...female solo books aren't lavished the same amount of hype and PR muscle that Male solos and team books are.

Where are the Wizard covers and the barrage of ads and crossovers for female stars?

And I'm sure that the monster feeds itself
"Female solo books don't sell that well, why should we hype them?"
"We don't hype female solo books, that's why they don't sell that well"
etc, etc.

Wonder Woman is a class unto itself...the book doesn't sell that well, but her place in comics history guarantees that she will always have a solo book published.
Spider-Girl's fans are rabid, vocal and united...the book has survived against all odds, but then again she is the daughter of Peter Parker.

Storm provides another great opportunity for Marvel: Having the best, most iconic heroine that also happens to be black, surely would represent some sort of milestone in comics history, but Marvel has squandered Storm's potential.

Another case of a misused heroine: Photon.
Great character, lots of fans, mega-cool powers...yet, Marvel keeps her in limbo.

[CAPWOLF]

Storm is popular...she isn't an icon. Triple H is popular, Hulk Hogan is an icon.
Get the difference?
Storm has a couple things holdin her back in my opinion. First of all she has no consistency in costume, so she isnt as recognizable as she could be. Secondly she doesnt have a personality or should I say she is boring as hell. Thirdly to address the issue of Storm acting like a dark caucasian woman, the posters are absolutely correct she definitely does. She is the anti-Luke Cage the depict him WAY too ghetto, hes supposed to be an educated man and the portray Storm as a big colorless nothing. She is NEVER with black people she doesnt reflect her black heritage in any way...I'll go so far as to say the only nod the writers give to her history at all is that she say's "By the Goddess" once an issue...big deal.
Parenthetically the really thing that bugs me about Storm and her origin is that it is inherently racist. Why the hell would these African people think she was a goddess? Americans never once considered her to be any kind of divine creature. Why did the Africans? Are they so stupid they cant wrap there heads around the idea that some people have powers? The Wakandans have no trouble doing it. The fact that this is just accepted as canon, and doesnt offend comic fans is very disturbing. At the end of the day though if these issues are addressed she could be a decent Avenger. She's a lame X-man she has nowhere to go but up.

[The Shadow]

Storm is popular...she isn't an icon. Triple H is popular, Hulk Hogan is an icon.
WHATCHA GONNA DO... WHEN THE 24 INCH PYTHONS GO WILD ON YOUUUU?
*commence posedown*

Man... great analogy! (Though "I am THE GAME" is pretty catchy!)

Marvel has no female icons. It only has 1 make icon in Spider-Man. It has some perpherial icons in Cap and Wolverine... but that's it.

DC only has 3... Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. Others like the Flash or Aquaman MIGHT have SOME added recognition... but not to the extent the BIG 3 do.

[IFdude]

WHATCHA GONNA DO... WHEN THE 24 INCH PYTHONS GO WILD ON YOUUUU?
*commence posedown*

Man... great analogy! (Though "I am THE GAME" is pretty catchy!)

Marvel has no female icons. It only has 1 make icon in Spider-Man. It has some perpherial icons in Cap and Wolverine... but that's it.

DC only has 3... Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. Others like the Flash or Aquaman MIGHT have SOME added recognition... but not to the extent the BIG 3 do.


I think The Hulk could be considered an icon. I mean come on. If you have Wonder Woman on the list you have to have the Hulk. Because most people on the street would recognize them both for the same reason. Their T.V. shows.

Later,

Kyle

[Harold of the Rocks]

I wanted to vote for She-Hulk, but let's face it..Wasp was an Avenger since Day 1 ... "Nuff Said!"

;)

[HartyPotter]

I think the Invisible Woman, Jean Grey, She-Hulk, and Storm are all good candidates, but considering all of them except for She Hulk are already on a team, it's not like they can go to the New Avengers. She Hulk will probably pop up eventually in the title later on.

[Driftwood]

I think Storm is probably the most iconic female in the MU...and I think her powers would be a great addition to the Avengers....she's too powerful really for the X-men...and although I've disliked her character for years, I really think seeing her interact with other figures in the Marvel Universe would change that....

[SuperJ]

I would say She-Hulk, but the problem with that character is that there's been so many different "takes" on the character that it's next to impossible to ever know which one somebody is talking about. There's the original SHe-Hulk who changed to human a la Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde (a near exact duplicate in personality/powers to the Hulk) from the Savage series...there's the "joke" She-Hulk from the Sensational series where she's a step away from being in a Daffy Duck cartoon at all times...theen there's the Team-Player She-Hulk, where she's the most believable (funny, but toned, down...doesn't change into a non-powered human, and retains her intelligence) as she shas appeared in Fantastic Four, Avengers, Fantastic Force, Heroes for Hire, and others. The latter is the DEFINING She-Hulk to me (which may be why I dislike the latest version by Slott), but it may not be the defining version to somebody else. To them, She-Hulk can ONLY be She-Hulk if she changes back to human form, and exercises that ability in every issue. Or somebody else may only consider She-Hulk to be She-Hulk if she undergoes a Banner-like personality/intelligence change. Offhand, I'd like to see the Team-Player She-Hulk that we've seen for about 10 years prior to the Avengers "Red Zone" story arc restored as the legitimate version but in the world of comics that's a pipe dream. If somebody can fast-talk it (i.e. make Marvel believe it's a good idea) then expect to see an even less identifiable She-Hulk in the days ahead.

In regard to all of that, and defining "iconic" to mean, "the version of the character that MOST people agree with," I'd have to go with Scarlet Witch or Black Widow. They have remained largely untampered with, in terms of their personalities, but have been used by MANY different creative teams. To me, a writer is only borrowing these characters for a period of time...they are not HIS to abuse in any way they see fit and to be left in a shambles. Respect should be shown to these characters by each oncoming and outgoing creative team, because Marvel, itself, suffers when they do not.