B.P.R.D. The Dead #4

[gary bolt]

I picked up #4 today and I must say it's great. My only criticism is that, although all aspects of the story continue to evolve, this one really left me hanging for the next concluding instalment. A lot happens and then, wham, to be continued .

The final full page image is truly and beautifully horrific.

I think "The Dead" will be strongest when read as one story rather than as 5 seperate comics.

[JohnThompson]

Well stated, Gary. This was one of those issues whose main purpose is to set up the scenario for the final act. Not a bad issue (and yes, Guy draws the creepiest monsters), just an issue that leaves you wanting more.

So, more already! When is the next ish coming out??

[Tad]

I'm not playing around with spoiler tags. If you haven't read the comic yet don't read this thread!

The one thing about the series that almost seems experimental to me is the Abe story. I say it's experimental because it's not working for me much at all but maybe the next issue will put it in unique perspective.

Back in the glory days of Steve Canyon, Lil' Abner and the soap opera comic strips of today, there was a rule about continuing stories. Nothing too dramatic could happen Monday thru Friday because some papers only carry the Sunday strips. So Monday thru Friday installments gave details or character stuff or played out the situation that had been revealed the previous Sunday. I reflected on that when reading the Abe stuff. Nothing new has happened in about three issues. It's the same scene retold. In fact, it's less than those daily strips because we're getting no nuance of character or detail. If his wife was having a conversation that had double meanings - one for ignorant Abe and one for us who see the monster - then it would be building suspense deliciously. But it's like time has slowed down.

Which is something that might be happening, it's one instant happening at an incredibly slow rate.... except for the shots of the ocean rising. Obviously time is moving. But take the action that happens at the new headquarters and the theoretical time it would require and compare it to the time it takes to kiss someone.

Like I said, it might be an experiment that reveals a cool Twilight Zone twist that explains it. If not, this is what I would've like to see. First two issues as they are. Issue three, get me completely immersed in the action of the main story, then give me one panel, not a splash page, one panel...let's make it two small ones: Abe about to kiss his beautiful wife then her hand on his shoulder, monstrous. Or her teeth. Issue #4 nothing. The reader is caught up in the HQ fight. "Wow, that's great. That was some bizzare crap happening there." Then it would hit: "Kee-rist! What's happening to Abe???" Theoretically anyway.

So I'm waiting to see what happens. Meanwhile....

[Risque]

Eek! I can't wait for issue 5. The bugs, the bugs! I did like the line about Roger and having a sidearm.

I really can't think of much to comment on this issue. I think I have to wait for the final chapter beofre I write a novel on the boards :D

[morna]

The final full page image is truly and beautifully horrific.



...remind anyone else of Miyazaki-san's " no face"?

[Tad]

I don't like Daimio. He get's so excited by ghosts that he just fires off his gun when it has no effect. Then he decides everyone should be armed... I guess so he won't be alone in looking stupid.

Of course, this means he'll be come my favorite character because we'll see him learn to work with the team. That will lead to some moving character scenes when he finally lets down his guard to someone or at least plenty of humor throughout. The "fish out of water" scenario is a mainstay of Hollywood and never gets old when properly done.

I loved "Well, that's a start."


But I notice his character description hasn't been added to the inside cover. That's like an actor not being in the main credits. Is he renegociating his contract or slated to be written out? Dum dum dummmmmm

[evening]

But it's like time has slowed down.

Which is something that might be happening, it's one instant happening at an incredibly slow rate.... except for the shots of the ocean rising. Obviously time is moving. But take the action that happens at the new headquarters and the theoretical time it would require and compare it to the time it takes to kiss someone.

Like I said, it might be an experiment that reveals a cool Twilight Zone twist that explains it. If not, this is what I would've like to see. First two issues as they are. Issue three, get me completely immersed in the action of the main story, then give me one panel, not a splash page, one panel...let's make it two small ones: Abe about to kiss his beautiful wife then her hand on his shoulder, monstrous. Or her teeth. Issue #4 nothing. The reader is caught up in the HQ fight. "Wow, that's great. That was some bizzare crap happening there." Then it would hit: "Kee-rist! What's happening to Abe???" Theoretically anyway.

So I'm waiting to see what happens. Meanwhile....

The idea I got from the panels going back to the same scene, was that she had entranced him, and you see that he doesn't realise how much time is passing, which is a dangerous thing in itself.

[gary bolt]

So, more already! When is the next ish coming out??

BPRD: The Dead #5 (of 5)
Comic Book
Dark Horse Comics
Scheduled to ship March 30, 2005

I'm new (ish) to the whole hellboy experience but this monthly instalment thing Dark Horse is doing with BPRD is awesome.

My feeling is that many of the things that feel slow or drawn out will read fine when this story is all printed and continuous. The monthly waits make it seem like things are happening too slow (especially with Abe) but when it's all one story it will look more like a reminder of what's happening with Abe and his wife rather than a tease. Still, Plague of Frogs gave us so much Abe background and since the first issue of The Dead we've learned hardly anything.

For me the Plague of Frogs started out as a BPRD story without Hellboy. I hope that The Dead doesn't lead to BPRD without Abe.

[Tad]

Well, I've always read Hellboy in monthly installments and the gap between issues doesn't change the structure of the story. Abe's "wife" took him into her arms in issue 2. In Issue 3 they're in the same embrace, same conversation. Ditto, in 4. Compare the action in the rest of the series: exploring the HQ, Johan going crazy, finding bodies, finding a mad scientist, fire, plagues of bugs, mad scientist mutates into creature.

So...... Abe's moment is taking incredibly long, which may be part of the spell that's revealled in the next issue. If that's all it is, I'm not sure it's worth it. The panels in issue 2 depicting the embrace then the monster's smile are incredibly horrific and the sequences since are anticlimactic to me. If we got new information - like the monster is reaching for a knife (I'm not saying that's right just an example) or that they are now surrounded by a ring of monsters that are stepping on the bones of previous suitors - then the horror of those early panels would build. But the panels in 3 and 4 feel like a recap.

Now having said that, maybe the build is supposed to be the building waves outside and that the house will be destroyed as they kiss. But considering the nature of Abe, water isn't a big threat.

So take this as a discussion of alternate storytelling techniques, a curiosity about a conclusion that will make it all make sense, and an observation that, for me, the revisiting of the scene is weakening the initial impact.

[Johann]

I'm still wondering if Daimio is a bad guy and I feel that the spear of destiny has been done to death but then, it's really the first time in an actual story. -Could be because i saw it in an 'ad' in Hellboy junior, the movie, and most recently Constantine (which i saw on the same day i picked up this issue)

....meh, over all its a good issue for rising to the climax. Next ish: reasoning?

I'm going to have to pick it up in TPB form for sure.

[Poe Ghostal]

Can anyone translate what Johann's saying in that room?

[JohnThompson]

Can anyone translate what Johann's saying in that room?
Yes, whether the thick material is configured with the suspension field--

No, no,no--

Everything is wrong, they are all idiots! All!

[Neil Hill]

Tad, I just want to say that I agree with you completely. The "slow burn" of the Abe story, compaired to the timeline at the new BPRD HQ is definately like an eternal moment dragged out perhaps a bit more than it needs to.

Otherwise a great read and I loved the little bits of humor thrown in with the BPRD workers, as they are caught in various states of running for their lives :)

[el seth]

Well, an amazingly executed issue in many respects. I suppose I essentially agree with Tad about the presentation of the Abe arc, but the jury's still out for me until I can read the whole thing in one go. Although whoever said something about time being futzed with in our last thread REALLY nailed it as scary dress monster/lady implies as much with her/its' dialogue. Nice one.

But the REAL biggy for me in this issue is its' possible implications for the Hellboy cosmology. Note that my objection is an aesthetic rather than moral one, but I always kind of liked that Hellboy took place in an essentially Catholic universe, and that while God and His angels weren't, you know, AROUND they were probably still out there and serving as an antithesis to all the bad stuff. The idea of having Heaven be just as bad but different from the bad stuff is a pretty fundamental shift in the way I'd thought about Hellboy, and is the sort of (potentially) "edgy" jaded crap that made me stop reading Spawn around issue 15. HOWEVER, I'm drawing all of these conclusions from a few pages of a madman's rambling gibberish so a) I may be wrong and b) even if I am wrong, the execution might be amazing, and as long as it looks like that amazing last page by Guy Davis, I don't think I could stop reading, even if I wanted to.

Other random thoughts about the heaven bugs: they might just be critters from a high-energy pocket dimension or somesuch, but the whole presence of the Spear of Destiny adds another wrinkle, and for me connecting Jesus H. Chrsit to space bugs is pretty bizzare and creepy, and I'm not sure how I feel about it. I mean, I'm not angy or dissapointed or anything, just very surprised and ambivolent and wondering where all this is going and what it means for Hellboy. Although maybe I just need to be more accepting of bugs.

And anyway: you guys check out that flaming sword/spear that the uh angel is uh carrying? Pretty nifty.

[Poe Ghostal]

Oh, I don't think that's supposed to be the "real" heaven in any way. I mean, look at the blurb for the next issue at the bottom of the letters page...I definitely don't think we've seen any sort of shift in the Hellboy cosmogony.

As for the Spear of Longinus, it's been fairly well established--in pop culture anyway--that "holy weapons" often work both ways (I mean, even Indy had to shut his eyes when the Ark was opened). I think the idea is that the Spear is a source of immense preternatural power, but that doesn't mean it only works toward good ends (and besides, assuming the BPRD defeats this threat, one could easily make a "part of a larger plan" argument on behalf of the Divine).

[Poe Ghostal]

Yes, whether the thick material is configured with the suspension field--

No, no,no--

Everything is wrong, they are all idiots! All!
Thanks JT!

[JohnThompson]

The buggy creature that appears at the end of the issue reminds me a lot of the outer universe nightmare creatures in Grant Morrison's "Invisibles" comics. Lots of insect monster-demons. Interestingly, he describes the "Jesus fish" symbol as being a graphic device illustrating two parallel universes (Heaven and Hell, each universe stylized as a circle) overlapping to create our universe, a weird combination/mutation of the two.

The machine which is meant to open a portal to heaven could just as easily be opening a portal to hell.

[Myron L]

I love how daimio is totally clueless in how to deal with the Ethereal Folk. And...hmmm..what type of sidearm will Roger get...a bazooka ? A back scratcher ? Even a fly-swatter seems appropriate right now (hehehe).
I agree with everyone about how Abe is probably in a time-slip of some sort, and that this is done intentionally ( even if it IS maddening). So frogs AND bugs...hmm both biblical references to the Apocalypse...plague next ??? Famine ? Food for thought...

[petriacce]

Yea! I finally got some comic time in this past weekend and read issue four.

Yet another beautiful piece of this story.

The scenes with Abe remind me of having the flu. You just lay in bed riding waves of nausea while praying it will end soon. Every second is an eternity. I like how they give us the one page as a reminder that while all of this action is passing for the other characters, Abe is on the brink. The evil has been attempting to lure Abe, trying to persuade him to give in with a kiss. I believe deep down inside Abe is fighting and will resist the kiss that will lead him away. Or Kate gets to the house and kicks butt.

Daimio is annoying but a good character to contrast our group of paranormal "experts". His military side sure sticks out like a sore thumb. Not to say all military people just start shooting everything, but he may just not be use to dealing with things he can't shoot. I'm not sure what his problem with Liz is, but I'm hoping it's not something like women shouldn't be in the military. Or maybe he's just trying to test her level of self control with her powers. If I were the leader of a team I'd want to know if my potentially explosive subordinate could keep it together.

I see the crazy scientist as being lead astray by evil. Evil is often known as presenting itself under the guise of light. People see a partial truth or false hope and never question.

I'll be glad to get the last issue of this arc next month so I can re-read the whole story in one sitting. Snarf!

[gary bolt]

I'm hoping we get to see Daimio use his "powers" soon. We saw him come out of a body bag three days after being pronounced dead so maybe he'll get killed by whatever Gunter Eiss has unleashed and show up to save the day later. Or maybe his story is darker than that and he turns on the team but Roger sees through to his true nature. I don't really trust him. I can't wait to see what Johann is doing with that crazy backpack he's building. And, hopefully something happens with Abe... it would be cool if Kate were to come to his rescue. However it gets resolved, if the concluding issue of "The Dead" is as strong as the concluding issue of "Plague of Frogs" I will be one happy fan.

I'm curious to see where the title of this story comes from. Is "The Dead" a reference to Daimio, or Abe's wife, or more of a generalized reference? We'll find out soon! :)

[clockwork.storybook]

I haven't read The Dead yet (waiting for the trade, as I did with PoF) but just can't keep away from the spoilers. So not having read it except for quickly flipping through the issues at the comics store, I might be way off base...but couldn't this be compared to the Abe dream sequences in PoF...after all, in every issue they basically did the same stuff over, the whole "Sunken bells toll for thee...ocean is calling her children..." etc etc. Nothing new really happened, except for maybe a new image being introduced gradually with each issue. But read in a single sitting, as a graphic novel and not a series of comic books, it works.

Could this be a valid comparison?

Or am I wrong?

[citymadeofash]

So far I've been enjoying The Dead though my main gripe is the way Roger is being portrayed. Although he as a child like innocence, he is still a well articulated and thoughtful human bei -- err I mean -- Homonculus. Anyhow, Daimio talks to Roger as if he is a simpleton. Some of his remarks as well as Rogers responses come close to portraying him as a simplistic dullard (which is frustrating because for me, Roger is such a good character full of emotional complexeties: self sacrifice [giving his life on more than one occasion], self discovery, etc).

Anyone else notice this?

[morna]

Yup ! right from the beginning

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=27292&highlight=bprd+dead

[citymadeofash]

Yup ! right from the beginning

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=27292&highlight=bprd+dead
Thanks for the link... at least I'm not alone in thinking "what the hell is with roger being an IQ of 38 all the sudden?!?".

I think Tad had it right in the other thread... I'd probably feel better if there were even just one small remark excusing his being an simpleton like connecting it with his being hung in Plague of Frogs or something.

Well, Roger was hung in the last series. Maybe the decreased blood flow to his brain affected him. If it's intentional then it would be nice to have a coment from another character, "Yeah, being dead does that. He'll get better."