View Full Version : Is Superman a drug?
hugh45
02-23-2005, 04:07 AM
I've noticing lately by reading the different boards on how Superman
powers keeps increasing.I was wondering if Superman is like a drug
to writers,where they have to continuely increase his strength to
where nothing short of GOD could defeat him? I'm curious in what you
guys have to say. :cool:
Radical
02-23-2005, 05:24 AM
Welllll..I did once complain about "Electric Superman," which sounds like the "street name" of an illegal narcotic/hallucinogen, which in turns suggests the writers were on something when they came up with the idea...
discostu
02-23-2005, 05:44 AM
In the DC universe characterization is replaced by the constant gradual increase of a characters powers. Flash is getting stale? let's make a speedforce!
I've noticing lately by reading the different boards on how Superman
powers keeps increasing.I was wondering if Superman is like a drug
to writers,where they have to continuely increase his strength to
where nothing short of GOD could defeat him? I'm curious in what you
guys have to say. :cool:
Nah, he's still too weak to be considered a drug. So far he's still considered par with Thor at best, losing to Surfer, Gladiator, Flash, some even say Magneto and Xman...
So I'd say he still needs some serious powering up.
Edit: Like, show him resisting more energy draining attempts and transmutation from recognized big league characters, and have him crossing galaxies all the time, and make him take out Thanos in a crossover! Know what'd be cool? If Supes stood right up to a well known Skyfather and took his best shot, and walked out of a smoking crator without a scratch... Or maybe have Imperiex come back, take his best shot, have Supes put hands on hips and say "go ahead", and not even flinch.
And in the same scene have the entire JLA get fried, plus Doomsday and Captain Marvel and Bizarro Superman and General Zod, just so we can see absolute evidence that it's Supes power and not some powerdown for the villian. And then bring all those dead guys back to life cause no sense wasting a good character.
Yeah, that'd be cool. ^_^
In the DC universe characterization is replaced by the constant gradual increase of a characters powers. Flash is getting stale? let's make a speedforce!
Just about anyone I've seen who's collecting Superman claimed the past six months or so have been excellent...
The Master Meglomaniac
02-23-2005, 09:11 AM
Nah, he's still too weak to be considered a drug. So far he's still considered par with Thor at best, losing to Surfer, Gladiator, Flash, some even say Magneto and Xman...
So I'd say he still needs some serious powering up.
Edit: Like, show him resisting more energy draining attempts and transmutation from recognized big league characters, and have him crossing galaxies all the time, and make him take out Thanos in a crossover! Know what'd be cool? If Supes stood right up to a well known Skyfather and took his best shot, and walked out of a smoking crator without a scratch... Or maybe have Imperiex come back, take his best shot, have Supes put hands on hips and say "go ahead", and not even flinch.
And in the same scene have the entire JLA get fried, plus Doomsday and Captain Marvel and Bizarro Superman and General Zod, just so we can see absolute evidence that it's Supes power and not some powerdown for the villian. And then bring all those dead guys back to life cause no sense wasting a good character.
Yeah, that'd be cool. ^_^
But it wouldn't be cool if after getting all that power, Supes has trouble with Toyman in the next issue. If you make Supes that powerful, 95% of his villains could only threaten him if Supes suffered massive PIS.
But it wouldn't be cool if after getting all that power, Supes has trouble with Toyman in the next issue. If you make Supes that powerful, 95% of his villains could only threaten him if Supes suffered massive PIS.
But that's what makes Darkseid such a handy villian. When they want to show off SUpes power boosts, they can just keep jobbing DS to him. He's still a reasonably credible threat no matter how many times they job him to Supes. Granted it ruins a perfectly good villian, but such is a small sacrifice to pay before the greatness of SUperman.
Flawless P
02-23-2005, 09:23 AM
No i think he should be more powerful along with darkseid and doomsday to keep it fun... so the three of them become far more powerful and then it is done...
No i think he should be more powerful along with darkseid and doomsday to keep it fun... so the three of them become far more powerful and then it is done...
That's the problem though... if SUpes becomes so much more powerful than all his rogues except Darkseid and Doomsday, then those 2 become his only credible threats. Thus, those two will have to keep jobbing to him.
Flawless P
02-23-2005, 09:53 AM
Or kicking his ass and taking over the world... he takes it back and then he has cosmic enemys to fight where we can finally get some fresh meat into his rouges... Also Luthor has to stay to stay as a good threat against him thats how it should stand for all eternity...
Or kicking his ass and taking over the world... he takes it back and then he has cosmic enemys to fight where we can finally get some fresh meat into his rouges... Also Luthor has to stay to stay as a good threat against him thats how it should stand for all eternity...
Darkseid was THE cosmic threat... till Supes started jobbing him out left and right.
If they wanna turn Supes into a Silver Surfer and send him off into space that's fine... but I don't see them doing that. Unlike Surfer, he's too connected to earth. Heck, he's got a wife and job. He'll stay on earth and deal with the earth threats.
Eliseu Gouveia
02-23-2005, 10:42 AM
It used to bug the hell outta me before, but now I donīt mind it as much.
Heck, right now I wouldnīt mind seeing him juggling planets with his biceps if that pleases the writers (itīs not like I read his book, anyway...).
See, no matter how powerfull he gets, heīs still got pressure points.
You can kill him with kryptonite, you can annihilate him with magic, you can devastate him with a threat to his wife, parents and friends.
Way I look at it, thatīs the price he pays for being number one, the unbeatable jobber machine.
I look at characters like Thor and theyīre all this, that and the other and they just donīt have weaknesses. None.
No vulnerabilities, no pressure points, itīs the wet dream of every teen on a power ride:
" - Look at me, I am hollier-than-thou and nobody can beat me for I am God."
Jīonn has fire, Green Lantern has the yellow color, WW has bullets (rolls eyes in disgust) and Supes has kryptonite.
You wanna be in the senior league, you pay something for it.
Just my two cents.
Tommy
02-23-2005, 10:53 AM
The problem I have is that Superman has every power under the sun and allmost no credible threats. So he has utterly stupid weaknesses. the same holds true for most of DC heros.
OverMaster
02-23-2005, 10:57 AM
Just about anyone I've seen who's collecting Superman claimed the past six months or so have been excellent...
Rucka's Adventures has been okay. Azzarello's flagship title has felt too out of synch with what Superman should be, but at least has nice Lee art. Austen's Action was horse crap.
Keep in mind we down here get comics with some belateness compared to you (and that's when we get them. Stupid bad distributors).
That's the problem though... if SUpes becomes so much more powerful than all his rogues except Darkseid and Doomsday, then those 2 become his only credible threats. Thus, those two will have to keep jobbing to him.
The problem with that is, Supes powers are already so outlandish Toyman's not too credible as is. Even in depowered Byrne days.
May as well go the extra mile and just bring him back to 60's PC levels.
The Master Meglomaniac
02-23-2005, 11:46 AM
The problem with that is, Supes powers are already so outlandish Toyman's not too credible as is. Even in depowered Byrne days.
May as well go the extra mile and just bring him back to 60's PC levels.
You must really love Jobbersied, if you want Thanos become a jobber to Superman, not to mention a threat powerful enough to destroy the JLA, Doomsday,General Zod, etc but still loses because it jobs to Superman.
At least PC Darkseid was more powerful than PC Superman, but now with Jobersied, if you raise Superman's power to the level you describe, Darkseid would be downgraded from jobber to total bitch. You might as well have storyline where Supes beats up darkseid, makes him become a hooker and starts tricking Darkseid out at the docks.
You must really love Jobbersied, if you want Thanos become a jobber to Superman, not to mention a threat powerful enough to destroy the JLA, Doomsday,General Zod, etc but still loses because it jobs to Superman.
At least PC Darkseid was more powerful than PC Superman, but now with Jobersied, if you raise Superman's power to the level you describe, Darkseid would be downgraded from jobber to total bitch. You might as well have storyline where Supes beats up darkseid, makes him become a hooker and starts tricking Darkseid out at the docks.
The hook of all this is, eventually Supes takes on Darkseid in a real rematch from Apokolips Now...
Superman: "So, ready for another beat down chump?"
Darkseid: *Scratch's head* "Dude, I've been outta town all month. What, has Desead been playing with you again? I told him I'd never go picking fights like that... oooh, he's gonna get it!"
"Anyways, get lost, ya bother me" *Casually dismisses Supes with a gesture, sending him off world in a beam of energy*
Metal_Solid
02-23-2005, 12:12 PM
Does the fact remains that Darksied surppose to be trapped in the Source Wall now and we don't know how long before they going to use him again. If it's continuity or not that yet to be determed yet.
But It's not going to matter how much fans complain. IF DC what's to repower superman back to his pre-crisies day they do it won't they. Not that superman gone that far yet but,but mybe in a few more years or mybe he stay the same powerlevel that he is now but a little higher.
The Master Meglomaniac
02-23-2005, 01:03 PM
The hook of all this is, eventually Supes takes on Darkseid in a real rematch from Apokolips Now...
Superman: "So, ready for another beat down chump?"
Darkseid: *Scratch's head* "Dude, I've been outta town all month. What, has Desead been playing with you again? I told him I'd never go picking fights like that... oooh, he's gonna get it!"
"Anyways, get lost, ya bother me" *Casually dismisses Supes with a gesture, sending him off world in a beam of energy*
That might be a bit tricky now that Darkseid is trapped in the Source Wall. With Darkseid trapped only an upgraded Doomsday an pose a threat to a PC level Supes can pose and since Doomsday is just a mindless monster, he would not be a very interesting villain. Doomsday is a walking plot device, heck when they made him intelligent he became less threating and wimpy, either why he's one dimensional and if supes is back to PC levels having a one dimensional villain as a credible threat would become very boring very quickly.
Pendaran
02-23-2005, 02:16 PM
maybe it's a Darkseid-bot *nods*
The problem with that is, Supes powers are already so outlandish Toyman's not too credible as is. Even in depowered Byrne days.
May as well go the extra mile and just bring him back to 60's PC levels.
Well, if it were any other character but Superman I honestly would power them down. I think having class 100 strength is fine and I think having light speed is fine... but I'd never mix the two unless it was a PURELY cosmic level character.
Wonderwoman, Martian Manhunter, Captain Marvel... these guys don't need superspeed and barely use it anyways. They should be depowered. Superman is a different story since he's so iconic you can't really change him. So he's stuck with the powers and all the bad writing that goes along with it.
The problem with creating credible threats for class 100 speedsters is simply that you can't really counter it with anything but another class 100 speedster.
Does the fact remains that Darksied surppose to be trapped in the Source Wall now and we don't know how long before they going to use him again. If it's continuity or not that yet to be determed yet.
But It's not going to matter how much fans complain. IF DC what's to repower superman back to his pre-crisies day they do it won't they. Not that superman gone that far yet but,but mybe in a few more years or mybe he stay the same powerlevel that he is now but a little higher.
Darkseid has been trapped in the source wall before. He got stuck there in the X-Men/Teen Titans cross over, which was acknowledged as cannon since he was shown escaping the source wall later on (why DC chooses to acknowledge cross overs I'll never know... it totally messes with continuity). But anyways, the point is he somehow got out, so I'm not worried about him getting out again. Sooner or later some writer will need someone to job to SUperman, and free DS from the wall for that.
Eliseu Gouveia
02-23-2005, 09:14 PM
OR
They could create new threats for him, the universe is vast; why always use the same characters, Jobberseid and Doomsday?
Iīm pretty sure there must be SOMEONE out there who is a threat to Superman.
OR
They could create new threats for him, the universe is vast; why always use the same characters, Jobberseid and Doomsday?
Iīm pretty sure there must be SOMEONE out there who is a threat to Superman.
That's a good point. There was Imperiex for example. Now sure I'm thrilled how that turned out on some levels, but nonetheless it suceeded in making Superman again look good, at least compared to every other being in the DCU. Mission accomplished.
Radical
02-23-2005, 11:04 PM
maybe it's a Darkseid-bot *nods*
Which gives me a weird thought...what if Jobberseid is really a robotic practice dummy Superman's been training with to prepare for a battle with the real Darkseid?
Which gives me a weird thought...what if Jobberseid is really a robotic practice dummy Superman's been training with to prepare for a battle with the real Darkseid?
They already did kind of have a retcon to get rid of most of Darkseid's lesser showings, with his flunky Desead taking on his likeness, and even displaying his powers. There was also a scene where he said something akin to his avatars being very poweful, but that even they may be defeated or some such, with images of Dr. Fate vs Darkseid, and the old Superman/Darkseid fight from the earlier days.
But that was all before Apokolips Now I believe, and didn't directly retcon every loss...
hathead
04-20-2005, 12:13 PM
YES I am resurrecting a thread.
Anyways, I don't know what the complaint is, most of the posters on board vote against Superman when he paired with Marvel characters like Gladiator, Drax, Surfer, and others. Why not just ship Superman to Marvel so he fight harder characters since it seems Marvel is the company being overpowered. YMMV of course.
Lochdale
04-20-2005, 12:21 PM
YES I am resurrecting a thread.
Anyways, I don't know what the complaint is, most of the posters on board vote against Superman when he paired with Marvel characters like Gladiator, Drax, Surfer, and others. Why not just ship Superman to Marvel so he fight harder characters since it seems Marvel is the company being overpowered. YMMV of course.
Not a bad idea at all. Superman would have some fun in the Marvel Universe. He would clean house on earth but as soon as he left the atmosphere he would be in real trouble.
Thor takes him to Asgard and laughs.
Surfer throws him through a sun and then depowers him just for fun.
He tries to stop a Shi'ar fleet and Gladiator buries him before taking him into custody.
He goes toe-to-toe with Thanos and loses. Badly.
Daniel Lewis
04-20-2005, 12:23 PM
Bah. Sure, I'd power Supes up-- I'd just invent off world villains to fight.
And I would include DarkSeid and the New Gods in the story, just to retcon every weak showing in the past 10 years. And yes, I have thought of a credible explanation for it.
Daniel Lewis
04-20-2005, 12:26 PM
<snip>
Surfer throws him through a sun <snip>
That would be cool. We'd have the molten cool flame Superman :)
hathead
04-20-2005, 01:16 PM
Not a bad idea at all. Superman would have some fun in the Marvel Universe. He would clean house on earth but as soon as he left the atmosphere he would be in real trouble.
Thor takes him to Asgard and laughs.
Surfer throws him through a sun and then depowers him just for fun.
He tries to stop a Shi'ar fleet and Gladiator buries him before taking him into custody.
He goes toe-to-toe with Thanos and loses. Badly.
Joe Casey will then writes Superman and one-punches all of them!!
Anyways, I wouldn't mind if DC creates, or rather hype up thier cosmics, since obviously Superman nor Thor aren't global hero but cosmic ones like the Surfer.
Sir Christopher
04-20-2005, 09:38 PM
Did anyone read the Hitman guest-starring Superman? That was one of the greatest Superman stories ever, and power levels were practically irrelevant.
Bordnlazy
04-20-2005, 11:00 PM
Did anyone read the Hitman guest-starring Superman? That was one of the greatest Superman stories ever, and power levels were practically irrelevant.
No i haven't read it. Could you tell us about it? :D
Bordnlazy
04-20-2005, 11:09 PM
not that this has anything to do with this thread , It always bothered me when a character has a weakness, and they don't do anything to stop it.
Green Latern: yellow : he should've had a big Ol' Freaken Blue light to shine on anything yellow thus make it green
Superman: Kryptonite : a ledlined battle suit, when he knows he's gonna battle anyone that has kryptonite
Martian manhunter: Fire : Flame proof suit that will fit into a ring like the flash
okay thats all i really got to be honest that and most vampires should wear something protecting their heart from impaling!?!! i mean really you know something can affect you or kill why not have some sort of back up plan :p
Radical
04-20-2005, 11:19 PM
Dunno, Bordnlazy, it's like how nobody's ever gone, "Hey, why don't we make kryptonite bullets? Let's see those bounce off him!"*
*OK, so maybe there've been a few who have, but there's always a Leaguer or something to stop them...
Bordnlazy
04-20-2005, 11:26 PM
Dunno, Bordnlazy, it's like how nobody's ever gone, "Hey, why don't we make kryptonite bullets? Let's see those bounce off him!"*
*OK, so maybe there've been a few who have, but there's always a Leaguer or something to stop them...
HA! totally! you could thinly lace them with led so he would'nt see the kryptonite coming!
PatrickG
04-21-2005, 05:18 PM
Actually there wasn't enough Kryptonite on earth to do that until recently. Just one or two small chunks.
Then we got SUPERMAN/BATMAN which established both a new and a retroactive meteor shower. Supposedly the JLA collected most of it but the Red Hood over in the Bat-Books managed to get a large shipment of the stuff. So it may happen.
SuperManny
04-21-2005, 06:02 PM
Then we got SUPERMAN/BATMAN which established both a new and a retroactive meteor shower. Supposedly the JLA collected most of it but the Red Hood over in the Bat-Books managed to get a large shipment of the stuff. So it may happen.
Just to add, it's revealed in Countdown to Infinite Crisis that the crate was stolen from Ted Kord's company, who was hired to clean up the fragments by the gov't I believe. Black Mask picked it up, then that shipment was stolen by the Red Hood. The more I think about it, the much more of a great idea it was for Earth to have that meteor shower, story creativity wise at least.
Kinda cool how it all ties in, huh ;)
vBulletin® v3.6.4, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.