geoff johns question

[hitokiri_]

is he hogging the fame? i have no beef with him, he is a great writer but he's on 4 books. flash, gl, tt, and jsa. any thoughts?

[Brian R]

Well, Winnick is writing Outsiders, Green Arrow, plus a Bat-book, so hes not the only one. As for "hogging", i say who cares? If the man can handle writing four books per month with no delays, then I say we should let him. Remember, he did stop writing Hawkman, presumably to take on Green Lantern, so four is probably his upper limit.

[hitokiri_]

As for "hogging", i say who cares? If the man can handle writing four books per month with no delays, then I say we should let him. Remember, he did stop writing Hawkman, presumably to take on Green Lantern, so four is probably his upper limit.


he just got delayed by ethan van sciver on the issue number 4 of rebirth.

[Brian R]

he just got delayed by ethan van sciver on the issue number 4 of rebirth.

Yes, but that wasnt his fault, that was Ethan's, so I dont see a problem with Geoff writing four books.

[hitokiri_]

Yes, but that wasnt his fault, that was Ethan's, so I dont see a problem with Geoff writing four books.


i have no problem with that too. my point is, how about writers like mark waid, etc.

[Brian R]

Mark Waid is an awesome writer, and Im sure if he could handle writing four books a month, DC would be giving him more work. You see, every writer is different, and we dont know what else they have going on outside of comics, so its not just about writing talent but finding the time. For instance, does Geoff have a wife? How about kids? Because those are things which take up a fair amount of time.

[hitokiri_]

Mark Waid is an awesome writer, and Im sure if he could handle writing four books a month, DC would be giving him more work. You see, every writer is different, and we dont know what else they have going on outside of comics, so its not just about writing talent but finding the time. For instance, does Geoff have a wife? How about kids? Because those are things which take up a fair amount of time.


i am positive johns can handle 4 books. im just asking how about the other authors. :D

[Cayman]

He can handle it, I suppose, but he's a dull writer and his dominance keeps more talented people off the books.

Cay

[OzBat!]

Good thing that's your personal opinion and not fact, then! FLASH has climbed into the top 30 sellers, something that was unheard of at DC for a non-Batman/Superman title. Johns' writing is obviously resonating with fans buying the books.

[TomGun13]

I'm glad he is writing 4 books otherwise I would only be getting like 2 books everymonth. He is amazingly consistent. Unlike some other writers whose work seems to suffer when they bite off more than they can chew.

[KevinTBrown]

Don't forget, at one point he was writing 5 books... JSA, Flash, Hawkman, Avengers, and the Possessed. He was also working on starting up Teen Titans. And who knows what else?

[Arvandor]

Johns does seem to be running the DCU right now, though.
He's not Dan Didio, but it does appear that every other DC writer has to write AROUND Geoff Johns' storylines. If there's a continuity clash, Johns' story takes precedence.

And for those of us who don''t like his writing, that is a deeply annoying development.

[Lotus]

lessee,

Waid is writing two books (LSH, FF)
Morrison is writing 30 books in 12 months(7 Soldiers)+all his assorted mini's (Vimanarama, Seaguy, We3, whatever's after all that)+All-Star Superman
Rucka is writing 3 books (GC, WW, Adv of Superman)
Winnick is writing 3 books (GA, Outsiders, Batman)

so I would say Johns on four books is not that serious or bad.

[Forsaken_One]

Gail Simone is writing three books (Birds of Prey, Villians United, Action Comics).

[Sean Whitmore]

I think I can see hitokiri's point. I love Johns' work, but I think it's dangerous for editors to keep their options so limited. DC's not so bad yet, but we're sure seeing Johns, Rucka, and Winnick pop up all across the map. I just hope DC doesn't end up like Marvel:

"Okay, we've got a new book to start up. Is Bendis interested? No? Any movie directors? Okay then, 'eff it."

(I'm only about half-serious there ;))


SEAN

[Lotus]

I could see it if Johns was writing as many books as Bendis is (or had the level of editorial control that Bendis apparently does), but he's really not. He just happens to be so hot right now. In a year or two there will be another hot writer or artist who comes along and supplants him.

[Glaucon]

I think Geoff Johns does a great deal comics right now is because of his vast knowledge of the DC Universe (Kevin Smith said "I love Johns; he's the geek's geek"). I used to be a Marvel guy, but Johns' comics (and the current direction of DC in general) are making me a DC guy. I am currently picking up all of Johns' work (JSA, Flash, Green Lantern, and Teen Titans) and since he uses so much continuity, I am trying to read as much back DC comics as I can. I am picking up the back issues of the Wolfman/Perez Teen Titans and I can see similarities between Wolfman's work and Johns'.


I can see why people might call Johns a dull writer, but I have never been extremely bored with his comics. He's also not afraid to make big, dramatic changes in a short time ... ex. making Mr. Terrific chairman of the JSA all of a sudden.

[Michael P]

i have no problem with that too. my point is, how about writers like mark waid, etc.
Well, Mark's doing Legion, Hunter/Killer, just wrapped up FF, and there's rumors of a Spidey title in the works. So he's doing fine.

[Geardaddy]

I think DC is smart enough to know that John's is THE BEST writer in comics today. Period. That said, they want him to keep cranking out the stories because we, as the customers keep eating it up.

I say as long as his work doesn't suffer, keep him on 4 books. Hell, give him a 5th! or 6th...or 7th!!! :D

[Windbreaker]

Not sure where the "Geoff Johns is dull" idea comes from. I'm not reading all his titles regularly, but I think he's anything but dull. GL is near perfect. The issues of Flash and TT that I've read are excellent. Blends character development with big action. And as someone else noted, he's good at bringing outsiders up to speed. I wasn't reading GL before Rebirth, but I feel completely in the loop. What's dull?

[dancj]

Not sure where the "Geoff Johns is dull" idea comes from.

His Flash is great and I quite enjoyed the first Tean Titans tpb. On the other hand his Hawkman and JSA bored me silly

[Bored at 3:00AM]

The "Johns is dull" thing isn't something I think anybody can pin-point percisely, it's just a vibe that some people get from his work. I get the same feeling everytime I read something written by Mike W. Barr. This isn't to say Barr is a bad writer, or Johns for that matter, it just means their style isn't to everyone's taste.

I've really enjoyed most of the DCU stuff I've read by Johns. He's got a good grasp of the characters he's writing and is able to make them accessible to both old and new readers at the same time. He's not reinventing the wheel, but he's telling good solid superhero yarns.

[KJ_81]

I think DC is smart enough to know that John's is THE BEST writer in comics today. Period. That said, they want him to keep cranking out the stories because we, as the customers keep eating it up.

I say as long as his work doesn't suffer, keep him on 4 books. Hell, give him a 5th! or 6th...or 7th!!! :D
Hear Hear!!!!!

[Rasputin]

I am a relatively new DC reader and the primary books I pick up are Flash, Teen Titans and JSA because the writing is exactly what I am looking for in my comics. What I like about Johns is his ability to handle so many different characters and still maintain an independence for each character. In other words, each character feels unique and not similar to each other. Robin's personality is completely different than the other Titans AND the JSA and Flash. It is easy as a writer to fall back on generalizations of characters, especially in different books, because it makes the writing go faster and easier to crank out a story. Johns gives the feeling that he cares about each of the characters he writes - villains included - which makes the reader care more about them.

In addition to the characterization, his writing on those books adds a feel of continuity within the DC universe - what happens in one book reverbates in the other titles.

In other words, he is obviously more than capable of four titles and I think he does a solid job on each. If he is turning down a fifth book, that tells me he knows his limitations and doesn't stretch himself too thin.

[Glaucon]

I am a relatively new DC reader and the primary books I pick up are Flash, Teen Titans and JSA because the writing is exactly what I am looking for in my comics. What I like about Johns is his ability to handle so many different characters and still maintain an independence for each character. In other words, each character feels unique and not similar to each other. Robin's personality is completely different than the other Titans AND the JSA and Flash. It is easy as a writer to fall back on generalizations of characters, especially in different books, because it makes the writing go faster and easier to crank out a story. Johns gives the feeling that he cares about each of the characters he writes - villains included - which makes the reader care more about them.

In addition to the characterization, his writing on those books adds a feel of continuity within the DC universe - what happens in one book reverbates in the other titles.

In other words, he is obviously more than capable of four titles and I think he does a solid job on each. If he is turning down a fifth book, that tells me he knows his limitations and doesn't stretch himself too thin.


Since new DC readers can enjoy him, it shows he can input tons of continuity into his books (like he does) but make them comprehensible and enjoyable.

[stealthwise]

I had no idea who this "Johns" guy was last year, but I picked up Flash: Iron Heights and the first trade of Hawkman and liked them. Then Green Lantern: Re-Birth exploded in my face like an atomic bomb and I was hooked.

I'm seriously tempted to catch up on his JSA, Flash and Teen Titans, but I can't afford it at the present.

[Sage Shinigami]

I think I can see hitokiri's point. I love Johns' work, but I think it's dangerous for editors to keep their options so limited. DC's not so bad yet, but we're sure seeing Johns, Rucka, and Winnick pop up all across the map. I just hope DC doesn't end up like Marvel:

"Okay, we've got a new book to start up. Is Bendis interested? No? Any movie directors? Okay then, 'eff it."

(I'm only about half-serious there ;))


SEAN

Well, admittedly the more popular books are being written by the most popular writers, but that's so they can make money, and its not really a BAD strategy. And personally, as long as Johns isn't anywhere NEAR Batman, he can write whatever and I'll read it. :D

[Glaucon]

he can write whatever and I'll read it. :D


Yeah, me too.

[marshal99]

Chuck Austen used to have a lot a books and almost every single one of them stunk - avengers , exiles , uncanny x-men ,JLA and later action comics. I would rather have Johns anytime over Austen.

[Sean Whitmore]

Chuck Austen used to have a lot a books and almost every single one of them stunk - avengers , exiles , uncanny x-men ,JLA and later action comics. I would rather have Johns anytime over Austen.


That's the flipside of the coin. Whereas Johns is the go-to guy that everyone likes, Austen used to be a go-to guy that everybody...well...didn't. :) And Bendis is another go-to guy, and decision on him is split like a cheap pair of slacks.

So while I've got zero problem with Johns being given as many books as he'd like (cough! give him JLA! cough), the rationale behind that decision could mean that the next Austen will be offered just as many top-tier books.


SEAN

[Gail Simone]

Mark Waid is an awesome writer, and Im sure if he could handle writing four books a month, DC would be giving him more work. You see, every writer is different, and we dont know what else they have going on outside of comics, so its not just about writing talent but finding the time. For instance, does Geoff have a wife? How about kids? Because those are things which take up a fair amount of time.

Quite right, Mark's comfort zone is two books, but he can do more than that for a while, if called upon.

Gail

[Gail Simone]

Geoff Johns, however, is just one of those guys who can do more and still maintain a ridiculously high quality. He's very impressive.

Gail

[Private America]

He can handle it, I suppose, but he's a dull writer and his dominance keeps more talented people off the books.

Cay

I think he's the most un-dull writer in mainstream comics. Anything by GJ is at the top of my reading list, and anything new by him immediately goes on my pull list.

I think the best example of his recent work is the Teen Titans run from #17-20. He took what many consider to be a weak storyline in Identity Crisis and used it as a launching pad to tell an awesome story about a possible dark future for heroes if IC becomes the norm in comics.

[Paradox]

Windbreaker wonders:

Not sure where the "Geoff Johns is dull" idea comes from.

**shrugs** Johns is "old school". He isn't flashy and doesn't have "wild, crazy, weird and edgy" ideas meant to challenge the readers. He just writes good stories (IMHO).

I've found (settle down, it's not an absolute) that most of the people who find him boring (and guys like Kurt Busiek) are more fans of the type of stuff Ellis, Ennis, Millar and Morrison do. Hey, more power to 'em. Different strokes, different tastes.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

is he hogging the fame? i have no beef with him, he is a great writer but he's on 4 books. flash, gl, tt, and jsa. any thoughts?


Your right......he needs to be on more Books. Lets see him on Green Arrow, Spiderman and the X-Men as well! I'm serious.....Its a Geoff Johns world baby , and were all livin In It! :D

[The Shadow]

**shrugs** Johns is "old school". He isn't flashy and doesn't have "wild, crazy, weird and edgy" ideas meant to challenge the readers. He just writes good stories (IMHO).
Give me Old school anyday!

I've found (settle down, it's not an absolute) that most of the people who find him boring (and guys like Kurt Busiek) are more fans of the type of stuff Ellis, Ennis, Millar and Morrison do. Hey, more power to 'em. Different strokes, different tastes.
Yeah, I agree here too.

[BigKenW]

I think we should call him the fixit man. He fixes characters. He fixed JSA, he REALLY fixed Hawkman, he fixed Young Justice (Teen Titans), he is fixing Green Lantern, and he fixed (and I know people will argue this as a fix) Hal Jordan's death and the Spectre back in Day of Judgement. Although he did kill Wally's unborn children. So I say he is 5-1 in fix to kill. That sounds like a good ratio.

Another example of how he rules the world is DC Countdown. He was the architect. So I guess that makes Judd Winick the Oracle. LOL. But really, according to DC, everything for the last two years has been driven by these two guys leading up to Countdown.

[Windbreaker]

Well said, BigKen. Fix-to-kill sounds like an excellent device!

Now the only question is, can Geoff Johns fix or kill Judd Winick's Outsiders?

[Private America]

Well said, BigKen. Fix-to-kill sounds like an excellent device!

Now the only question is, can Geoff Johns fix or kill Judd Winick's Outsiders?

Baiter...:-)

[BigKenW]

Well said, BigKen. Fix-to-kill sounds like an excellent device!

Now the only question is, can Geoff Johns fix or kill Judd Winick's Outsiders?

Hope not. I like Outsiders (although I hate the current story). Arsenal and Nightwing RULE!!!!!!

[Windbreaker]

Hope not. I like Outsiders (although I hate the current story). Arsenal and Nightwing RULE!!!!!!
No malice intended! Just referring to recent writing...

[Forsaken_One]

I can't see Nightwing staying on much longer. He's supposed to be going undercover with the mafia in New York starting in Nightwing #107. That combined with his marginilization makes me think he'll be leaving soon. I mean, he'd kinda have to, it's hard to go undercover and be involved with a major (apparently full time) superteam.

Then again maybe DC's going to use Wolverine continuity on Dick.

[Private America]

Hope not. I like Outsiders (although I hate the current story). Arsenal and Nightwing RULE!!!!!!

I'd rather see GJ on Nightwing rather than Outsiders anyway.

[Static-Pulse]

Not sure where the "Geoff Johns is dull" idea comes from.He fixes characters.Think about what happens when you "fix" a dog. That's why I dislike Johns's writing.

He takes characters like Stargirl, Impulse, and Hourman (the android) and neuters them so they can't do anything exciting. People like him because he's old school, and that's cool. However, for people like me, who like crazy-fun adventures like the Teen Titans cartoon and the sheer new of "City of Heroes," his stuff is tepid. Johns writes stories -- at least in JSA and Hawkman, I have vigorously avoided Teen Titans -- that are so insular and inoffensive that they're mind-numbing for people who don't like him.

I spent most of last year using my blog as a platform to decry Birds of Prey -- I'm a convert of Gail Simone, so there's a chance I could be eating these words about Johns someday -- but even when I was hurling the most jack@$$ed insults, Birds was fun to deconstruct and grumble about. About the only emotion I can muster for Geoff Johns's stuff is either apathy or short-lived disgust.

Anyway, that's where the "dull" comes from.

[Ned Leeds]

Johns is my favorite mainstream writer. I don't consider Moore, Miller, Gaiman, or Morrison mainstream because they take comics one step beyond. Kinda like comparing Stephen King to Shakespeare.

The rest of the DC crew are great too... Rucka, Simone, Winnick, Dixon and Waid.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Think about what happens when you "fix" a dog. That's why I dislike Johns's writing.

He takes characters like Stargirl, Impulse, and Hourman (the android) and neuters them so they can't do anything exciting. People like him because he's old school, and that's cool. However, for people like me, who like crazy-fun adventures like the Teen Titans cartoon and the sheer new of "City of Heroes," his stuff is tepid. Johns writes stories -- at least in JSA and Hawkman, I have vigorously avoided Teen Titans -- that are so insular and inoffensive that they're mind-numbing for people who don't like him.

I spent most of last year using my blog as a platform to decry Birds of Prey -- I'm a convert of Gail Simone, so there's a chance I could be eating these words about Johns someday -- but even when I was hurling the most jack@$$ed insults, Birds was fun to deconstruct and grumble about. About the only emotion I can muster for Geoff Johns's stuff is either apathy or short-lived disgust.

Anyway, that's where the "dull" comes from.



Wow never would have seen that coming. I know Johns doesn't do anything to wild or crazy . But dull ? Man have you even seen his Flash ? Thats pretty much one of the best DC Titles each years because Johns has Wally West and has rebuilt the Rogues Into ...classic Villians.

[Forsaken_One]

Didn't... didn't Johns create Stargirl? How can you neuter your own creation? If she was exciting at all it's because of Geoff.

[Static-Pulse]

Didn't... didn't Johns create Stargirl? How can you neuter your own creation? If she was exciting at all it's because of Geoff.See, now I get to explain my theory. Thank you. :)

You have to look at the DCU like a computer system, and the JSA like one of its programs. Geoff Johns created Courtney Whitmore and Stars and STRIPE as a kind of backdoor hack. He took Sylvester Pemberton and Pat Dugan's legacy and created the new, beloved-by-me Star-Spangled Kid. From there, he started telling small stories in Blue Valley, the he moved forward to include Nebula Man, Dragon Kind, and the Shining Knight. By then, Courtney had proven herself as someone who could either fight against or alongside Golden Age heroes...

It was a simple task to slide her over into the JSA, where he was co-writing with Moyer. If you watch, you can see Johns's influence growing as he gained more and more access to the JSA. It started simply enough with the Entropy story, where Atom Smasher saved his mother. Then Black Adam was brought in, the Captain Marvel, and suddenly Moyer is leaving...

At this point, fans love Geoff's writing the JSA, the Golden Age characters, and Courtney -- notably one of the witchiest characters in the DCU -- becomes a cheerleading, Yes Man for the JSA. She becomes just another function in the already massive JSA program, forever giving Johns a backdoor into the DCU.

Stargirl was ruined, in my apparently singular opinion, when she stopped being the Courtney we knew from Stars and STRIPE, and become Johns's "mantle magnet" for the JSA -- carrying not only the Star-Spangled Kid's legacy, but Starman as well.

That's my opinion, Stargirl stopped being a character and started being a plot device. Look at the latest JSA story. Of all the characters who go back in time, who is the one character who got captured so just Johns could have the woman in the shadows act heroic? Stargirl.

[BigKenW]

See, now I get to explain my theory. Thank you. :)

You have to look at the DCU like a computer system, and the JSA like one of its programs. Geoff Johns created Courtney Whitmore and Stars and STRIPE as a kind of backdoor hack. He took Sylvester Pemberton and Pat Dugan's legacy and created the new, beloved-by-me Star-Spangled Kid. From there, he started telling small stories in Blue Valley, the he moved forward to include Nebula Man, Dragon Kind, and the Shining Knight. By then, Courtney had proven herself as someone who could either fight against or alongside Golden Age heroes...

It was a simple task to slide her over into the JSA, where he was co-writing with Moyer. If you watch, you can see Johns's influence growing as he gained more and more access to the JSA. It started simply enough with the Entropy story, where Atom Smasher saved his mother. Then Black Adam was brought in, the Captain Marvel, and suddenly Moyer is leaving...

At this point, fans love Geoff's writing the JSA, the Golden Age characters, and Courtney -- notably one of the witchiest characters in the DCU -- becomes a cheerleading, Yes Man for the JSA. She becomes just another function in the already massive JSA program, forever giving Johns a backdoor into the DCU.

Stargirl was ruined, in my apparently singular opinion, when she stopped being the Courtney we knew from Stars and STRIPE, and become Johns's "mantle magnet" for the JSA -- carrying not only the Star-Spangled Kid's legacy, but Starman as well.

That's my opinion, Stargirl stopped being a character and started being a plot device. Look at the latest JSA story. Of all the characters who go back in time, who is the one character who got captured so just Johns could have the woman in the shadows act heroic? Stargirl.

OK, I never read Stars and Stripe so maybe you are right. However, what the heck are you talking about with this computer system stuff?

PS - I disagree with you.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

See, now I get to explain my theory. Thank you. :)

You have to look at the DCU like a computer system, and the JSA like one of its programs. Geoff Johns created Courtney Whitmore and Stars and STRIPE as a kind of backdoor hack. He took Sylvester Pemberton and Pat Dugan's legacy and created the new, beloved-by-me Star-Spangled Kid. From there, he started telling small stories in Blue Valley, the he moved forward to include Nebula Man, Dragon Kind, and the Shining Knight. By then, Courtney had proven herself as someone who could either fight against or alongside Golden Age heroes...

It was a simple task to slide her over into the JSA, where he was co-writing with Moyer. If you watch, you can see Johns's influence growing as he gained more and more access to the JSA. It started simply enough with the Entropy story, where Atom Smasher saved his mother. Then Black Adam was brought in, the Captain Marvel, and suddenly Moyer is leaving...

At this point, fans love Geoff's writing the JSA, the Golden Age characters, and Courtney -- notably one of the witchiest characters in the DCU -- becomes a cheerleading, Yes Man for the JSA. She becomes just another function in the already massive JSA program, forever giving Johns a backdoor into the DCU.

Stargirl was ruined, in my apparently singular opinion, when she stopped being the Courtney we knew from Stars and STRIPE, and become Johns's "mantle magnet" for the JSA -- carrying not only the Star-Spangled Kid's legacy, but Starman as well.

That's my opinion, Stargirl stopped being a character and started being a plot device. Look at the latest JSA story. Of all the characters who go back in time, who is the one character who got captured so just Johns could have the woman in the shadows act heroic? Stargirl.



Uhhh thats Goyer who co-wrote with Johns. And Johns started on a low totam pole and grew his name. Stars and S.T.R.I.P.E was his real 1st DC work besides Flash and his name slowly grew...hence the fact he became the guy behind JSA. I don't see this as him pushing Goyer out who Is busy himself writing Movies.

[drwho5]

I have a hard time understanding how any comics fan could not like Geoff Johns' writing style. He captures the core essence of the characters in such a way that you cannot help coming back for more. I think more writers need to have his attitude towards the characters.

I am currently working on developing several comic book series I hope to self-publish someday. As I create each character I try to identify the key traits that make them unique. I then brainstorm as to the best way of utilisizing those traits throughout each story. Studying Geoff Johns' work has really helped me grow as a writer.

[cactusmaac]

I really like his work.

However I wouldn't mind a change on Flash since he's done about sixty-odd issues by now and it's time for some fresh blood.

[dancj]

No - The Flash is the only Johns book I actally like that much. He's welcome for a while more at least for me

[Bored at 3:00AM]

It's always a wise move for a writer to move on while they're at the top of their game. I know I'd remember Mark Waid's Flash more fondly if he'd only left a little earlier.

[hangmanjury]

I love Johns' work, so I don't mind seeing him on as many books as he's on.

[The Shadow]

I love Johns' work, so I don't mind seeing him on as many books as he's on.
Me either.

Best writer today.

[Captain Jim]

He's kind of hit and miss with me, but when he hits, you can't beat him.

[Forsaken_One]

Now with him taking over JSA come June even I think he might be streaching a bit too thin. But then that seems to be the way of things; a hot writer will get a whole lot of books, will do them all until they burn out, and then will cut back to a few or none for a few years before coming back. Then they'll be hailed as a returning master. :p

[Captain Jim]

You mean JLA, right? And he *does* have a co-writer on that one, the same guy who's doing Young Avengers, IIRC.

[Mia]

The "Johns is dull" thing isn't something I think anybody can pin-point percisely, it's just a vibe that some people get from his work. I get the same feeling everytime I read something written by Mike W. Barr. This isn't to say Barr is a bad writer, or Johns for that matter, it just means their style isn't to everyone's taste.



Count me in on that respect. From interviews I've read with him,Johns seems like a super nice guy. But I just find his stuff boring. And I don't like his portrayal of male heroes.

[Forsaken_One]

You mean JLA, right? And he *does* have a co-writer on that one, the same guy who's doing Young Avengers, IIRC.
Er, yeah. What'd I write? Oh. Well shoot.

And I still say he's going to be burned out soon enough, either by a fan backlash or simply by having too many books and wanting to cut back. I could be wrong, hell I'd be happy to be wrong, but it seems to be the way it goes with a lot of writers from my wee bit of experience.

And I can understand the whole "not liking an author for no specific reasons" argument. I feel the same way about some authors, like Morrison.

[Paradox]

BigKenW should know:

I think we should call him the fixit man. He fixes characters. He fixed JSA

Just a note, Johns didn't "fix" JSA, he merely continued along the lines Robinson and Goyer started.

Not that it was "broken" to begin with.

[TCJohnson]

I think we should call him the fixit man. He fixes characters. He fixed JSA, he REALLY fixed Hawkman, he fixed Young Justice (Teen Titans), he is fixing Green Lantern, and he fixed (and I know people will argue this as a fix) Hal Jordan's death and the Spectre back in Day of Judgement. Although he did kill Wally's unborn children. So I say he is 5-1 in fix to kill. That sounds like a good ratio.

Another example of how he rules the world is DC Countdown. He was the architect. So I guess that makes Judd Winick the Oracle. LOL. But really, according to DC, everything for the last two years has been driven by these two guys leading up to Countdown.

The same way he is "fixing" booster gold and blue beetle? Geoff Johns fixes the characters he likes and takes a dump on the characters other people like. Hey, like Giffen's Justice League? Tough, DC doesn't want your business.

[BigKenW]

The same way he is "fixing" booster gold and blue beetle? Geoff Johns fixes the characters he likes and takes a dump on the characters other people like. Hey, like Giffen's Justice League? Tough, DC doesn't want your business.

I don't know how he is fixing either of them.

As for Giffen's Justice League, I loved it and used to laugh so hard I cried. When I was around 12-13. Nowadays, while I still like FKATJL, it didn't have that appeal it used to.

Booster and Beetle are badasses waiting to happen, lets see it. And as for Blue Beetle, his appearances in Birds of Prey also helped that along (Not written by Johns).

DC wants out business, they just want more than just the fanboy business.

[cletus510]

I'd like to see less of Johns. One of these days I'm going to write a big flaming diatribe against his Teen Titans, the single worst comic book out there.

[Forsaken_One]

You haven't read Uncanny X-Men, have you?

[BigKenW]

I'd like to see less of Johns. One of these days I'm going to write a big flaming diatribe against his Teen Titans, the single worst comic book out there.

I wouldn't say its the worst, but it isn't great. Not like his JSA, Flash, and Hawkman. They are/were amazing books.

[Beastfan07]

Now with him taking over JLA come June even I think he might be streaching a bit too thin. But then that seems to be the way of things; a hot writer will get a whole lot of books, will do them all until they burn out, and then will cut back to a few or none for a few years before coming back. Then they'll be hailed as a returning master. :p

He's only doing JLA for a few issues. Shouldn't be too hard on him

[Forsaken_One]

He's only doing JLA for a few issues. Shouldn't be too hard on him
Yeah, but he's doing it for six issues, right? That's half a year. I mean, I don't know how long these things take but increasing your workload by 25% for half a year is significant to me.

[Beastfan07]

True, but he's not doing it all.

[Captain Jim]

I'd like to see less of Johns. One of these days I'm going to write a big flaming diatribe against his Teen Titans, the single worst comic book out there.

Well, don't flame, but if you want to write an objective, reasoned post, be my guest. I'm kind of curious where you're coming from, because I think this is a *great* title, one of Johns' best (with the exception of the Brother Blood storyline, that almost made me drop the book).

[Paradox]

cletus510 threatens in an absolutist manner:

I'd like to see less of Johns. One of these days I'm going to write a big flaming diatribe against his Teen Titans, the single worst comic book out there.

I'd like to see such a thing, just to refute it. It may not be the very best out there, but there's DOZENS of books out there far worse, IMHO.

[cletus510]

I'd like to see less of Johns. One of these days I'm going to write a big flaming diatribe against his Teen Titans, the single worst comic book out there.

Okay, I apologize. I shouldn't have said "the worst." I don't read that many books, so there are probably many out there I'm not collecting that ARE much worse. In fact, I often skip story arcs of books that I would normally collect if it is in a bad run. And no, I haven't been collecting Uncanny (even though I've picked up the recent Claremont issues). :)

I should more specifically state that of those superhero books that I read (about 20), I find Teen Titans annoying and unlikeable. So maybe I should have said "it is no better than the 20th best comic book out there." ;) My apologies for exaggerated flaming. I think it is just my frustration--I just finished reading the full run (over the last week) and wanted it to be good. But I was very disappointed with it.

Here is my issue with it, without going into too many specifics. I was ready and eager for a cool read and went into it with high hopes. Then I read the first lines of Johns' introduction to "A Kid's Game" TPB: "Teenage super-heroes rule. And hanging out together, they rule even more." Well, while I agree that a book featuring the younger DC superheroes could/should be fun (which is why I picked it up), Johns' quote made me worry. And those worries turned out to be well-founded. It's as if Johns is saying, "Hey, kids, you rock! I dig where you're coming from...I understand your problems..." The book has this unpleasant feeling of "MTV"s The Real World, Kid-style" or "Teen Titans Radical X-Treme Team" (complete with Bart skateboarding!).

Making it more "realistic" with its San Francisco setting, the behind-the-fighting-scenes backstories, and everyday character dialogue just doesn't work. I couldn't get over the idea that Starfire basically kidnaps Cassie from school and neither finds it necessary to inform her mother of her whereabouts. Neither can I buy into the concept that everyone seems okay that 15 year olds are fighting battles where they are stabbed, exploded, have their kneecaps shot out, etc. Starfire and Cyborg seem like teen superhero pimps.

Am I suggesting they not fight criminals? No! I could totally accept all these premises if there were no attempt to justify the premises. Just have the kids fight baddies and kick a** without any apologies or explanation. But Johns decided to explore the moral ramifications of "kidnapping" Cassie, of kids getting in deadly wars with vicious criminals, of their relationship and respect for their older "counterparts." And in every case, Johns has decided to side with the less logical choice. After Wonder Woman comes to find Cassie, the teens decide to attack the JLA. Huh?! And what's the resolution Johns chooses? Superman and Wonder Woman suddenly apologize humbly, followed by a ridiculous little speech by Dick ("You want these kids to open up to you, respect their privacy here at the tower. Let them handle things on their own. No matter what.") An 8.5 on the cheese scale.

What bugs me more is the characterization of the heroes. I have never liked (and now intensely dislike) Starfire. With the costume (or lack thereof), giant wig, and vacant eyes, she always looked like a blow-up doll (err...not that I have ever seen one). And she is a total b****. Superboy is just plain idiotic. He's even more annoying than the leather-coat-wearing, earring-sporting incarnation after the "death" of Superman. Just a whiny little geek with an IQ of 7 ("Dude. Batman sucks. You rock!"). And Tim...my poor Tim. I started collecting comics shortly before Tim was introduced to us, and loved the character. He was a spirited, good-natured, loyal sidekick. A good kid. Now he has become (at least in the TT) more irritating and unlikeable than Jason Todd. Damn! I'm ready to start a 1-800-KILL-TIM hotline. And what's with all this "I don't like Bruce and never want to be like him" crap? At one time, didn't he totally admire Bruce and aspire to be a superhero like him? Bart is alright (though I wish Johns would write him better so I can like him more), and I still enjoy Gar, but that's about it.

I'm just tired of all the teen angst in the book, the most empty and non-specific of human emotions. Cut the crap and make the book fun. Make the characters likeable, not irritating brats. Right now, I can't stomach most of them. So much so that as much as I want to follow the continuing Identity Crisis saga by reading the new Dr. Light story, I just couldn't pick it up.

All that said, I'm sure I'll calm down one day and give it another try. The plots themselves aren't bad (and Mike McKone's art was awesome). Hopefully Johns will make Robin less of an a**h*** just as we all hope the Batman writers will soon make Bruce less of one.

By the way, I'm not anti-Johns. Even though his run on Flash started out slow (I wasn't a big fan of the first few story arcs), it has come on really strong of late. In fact it is one of my favorite reads now. Also, while I think some people are confusing their love of Hal Jordan with the quality of the Rebirth story, I think that book is quite good, too. I also pick up the JSA here and there and am never disappointed. So come on, Geoff, let's get goin' on TT!

[Beastfan07]

Your problem isn's with Johns' writing, it's with Teen Titans as a concept. For the most part they always have been fighting super villains and the cahracters were created this way more or less. And Tim isn't an asshole, he's just careful.

[Forsaken_One]

Well cletus, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. And on some points I agree with you, such as the teen angst and lack of real ramifications for their actions.

(small rant coming up)

My favorite piece of unreality is when it's discovered that San Francisco paid for the tower in return for them escorting supervillians to Alcatraz. Wait a minute. I know San Francisco. I live less than an hour away from San Francisco and I have family that lives there. And I'm supposed to buy that the progressive capital of the progressive state, San Francisco, reopened a closed down prison facility that was also a state park, revamped it with high tech security with tax dollars from God knows where, hired underaged vigilanties without any kind of government approval or training to bring these horribly dangerous felons in, and did this such that Cassie (at least) never heard of it? No, I don't buy that. Even in a world with superheros watching us from the moon I do not buy that anything in San Francisco dealing with public funds could get done that quickly, we're still refitting a bridge that was damaged in 1989! I don't buy that anything that controvercial could get pushed through, let alone pushed through without huge protests. I don't buy that they could managed to build a giant T shaped building without the media jumping all over it and knowing full well what it's for. Would you really be suprised to be invited to the Teen Titans when they've been building a tower for the last few months shaped like a giant T that the media has been pointing out for the whole time? Please. Nor do I buy that the idea that they're using child labor, where it says they're teenagers in their name, without protest or comment by the media, pundits, and massive protests. Hell, they don't even know their real names, they don't know if they have parental permission, and they're throwing them into dangerous positions every single week, not to mention painting them as a target for every escaping supervillian. The ethics of that action boggles the mind.

(okay, rant's over)

That said I also disagree with some parts of what you said. For example, Tim has always been focused on not becoming the next Batman; he's been about making the mantel of Robin his own, at least ever since his own series started and he became more a partner than a sidekick. And I don't see him as irritating at all, if anything I find him better written in the Titans than he's been written by Willingham in the current Robin comic.

Really, what you seem to want is Young Justice. If you haven't read it you might want to find it, it was Teen Titans but without Starfire and the other camp counselors and it was funny, not focusing on teen angst much at all. Sadly it died to birth Teen Titans, and it will be missed.

[cletus510]

I don't buy that they could managed to build a giant T shaped building without the media jumping all over it and knowing full well what it's for.
I chuckled when you wrote that. I live in the area too. When the Transamerica pyramid was built (before my time), there was a huge public outcry because it was considered such an eyesore. Can you imagine what the public reaction would be if a giant T-shaped building were built in our beautiful bay? YIKES!
Hell, they don't even know their real names, they don't know if they have parental permission, and they're throwing them into dangerous positions every single week, not to mention painting them as a target for every escaping supervillian. The ethics of that action boggles the mind.

Exactly! Trying to make this "real" is just too weird. I can suspend my disbelief enough to imagine a real world where there is a Batman, Superman, Daredevil, or X-Men. I can also envision an imaginary world where teenagers in godawful tights and capes fight supervillains at the behest of "camp counselors" ;) and official government backing. But I have a hard time when someone tries to rationalize and justify this very bizarre concept, an attempt that has yet to work. As much as I dislike TV's Teen Titans, at least it is more "believable": we just accept it for what it is and are not forced to endure a writer's attempt to reconcile the unreal premise with reality.
That said I also disagree with some parts of what you said. For example, Tim has always been focused on not becoming the next Batman; he's been about making the mantel of Robin his own, at least ever since his own series started and he became more a partner than a sidekick. And I don't see him as irritating at all, if anything I find him better written in the Titans than he's been written by Willingham in the current Robin comic.

Really, what you seem to want is Young Justice. If you haven't read it you might want to find it, it was Teen Titans but without Starfire and the other camp counselors and it was funny, not focusing on teen angst much at all. Sadly it died to birth Teen Titans, and it will be missed.
I collected the Robin series only here and there, so I guess I'm ignorant to how he's portrayed there. Sad to hear. Bruce being grim, uncompomising, distant, etc. is bad enough. Tim that way? No thank you! In this way (at least it's the way I see him), he becomes redundant (maybe moreso than a nearly-adult Superboy is a redundant aberration of Clark). I always imagined that the purpose of Robin was a saner, optimistic, more cheerful counterpoint to Batman. Do we really need a Batman, Jr., a Dark Knightling?

I guess I should pick up a TPB of YJ. Thanks for your input and suggestions.

[cletus510]

Your problem isn's with Johns' writing, it's with Teen Titans as a concept. For the most part they always have been fighting super villains and the cahracters were created this way more or less. And Tim isn't an asshole, he's just careful.
You may be right (then again, from your comic list, you are probably sensitive to any criticism of Johns ;)). But Johns does have the power to change it. I really don't think that he feels coerced to follow the pattern of writers from years ago.

Okay, so maybe I'm requesting a different book (Young Justice, as suggested by Forsaken). Offer me one, DC. Give me a new book with likeable versions of the characters and more fun situations and plots. Keep the gritty realism and superhero angst for other books. Lose the teen drama and the desire to "Watchmen-ize" this team. These are kids, not grim, semi-psychotic adults.

Okay, I've wasted enough time on this. And being the weakling I am, I'll probably end up picking up TT again after a month or two of cooling off. :o

[Glaucon]

I think anyone who believes that Geoff Johns will be destroying the DC universe from your past should watch this interview:

http://www.dccomics.com/features/gl_rebirth/video.html

[Captain Jim]

Different strokes and all that; Teen Titans is without a doubt my favorite Johns book.

Just wanted to ditto FO's comments about Robin. Even under Chuck Dixon, the man who really defined the character more than any other, it was always made clear that being a super-hero was never a long-term, career thing for Tim and he *never* wanted to be Batman. I also agree with FO that I find Tim's portrayal in TT far superior to how he's being portrayed by Willingham in his own book (and have said so publicly, in many posts). I don't understand where you're seeing Tim as "dark" here. The only place I see him portrayed that way is his future-self in the time travel story (and present-Tim's own reaction was, "How could I become that?)

[Beastfan07]

You may be right (then again, from your comic list, you are probably sensitive to any criticism of Johns ;)). But Johns does have the power to change it. I really don't think that he feels coerced to follow the pattern of writers from years ago.

Okay, so maybe I'm requesting a different book (Young Justice, as suggested by Forsaken). Offer me one, DC. Give me a new book with likeable versions of the characters and more fun situations and plots. Keep the gritty realism and superhero angst for other books. Lose the teen drama and the desire to "Watchmen-ize" this team. These are kids, not grim, semi-psychotic adults.

Okay, I've wasted enough time on this. And being the weakling I am, I'll probably end up picking up TT again after a month or two of cooling off. :o

The thing about is, its that it is teen drama. They are teens with dramatic lives.

[Indy24LA]

I just hope Johns doesn't write anymore books cause damn it, I can't afford to add any more comics to my pull.