What will be the shocking revelation in CAPTAIN AMERICA #6? Let the guessing begin!

[Ivan Isaacs]

After reading some hints like "Brubaker will have to stay away from message boards after this issue will come out" or "their [the readers] heads will explode and will let them forget Hawkeye's death" and some guessing (a lot of characters died that were well-known to Captain America, some close, some not so close and Jack didn't know his murderer, the flashbacks to Steve's past) will let me put my money on

Bucky's return as a villain.

I know it's wacky but what else would made sense?
Please give me some other guesses. :)

Oh, how I love this series. Cap wasn't so much fun since Gruenwald. Definitely one of the best books Marvel publishes these days.

@Ed Brubaker (and Steve Epting): Please stay a long, long time on this title! :)

[Gaz]

It does make sense, and Patriot from YA using his old costume means new villain attire is sensible, too

[Neolucifer]

i wouldnt be too surprised . Lately its the exact kind of things that pissed fans of in Amazing spidey (ok sightly different) or avengers and xmen :D

[Metamorpho]

I'd say the Steve Rogers really did die with Bucky and the guy packed in ice was some clone planted by some assorted bad guy.

[Alan2099]

...wait...""their [the readers] heads will explode and will let them forget Hawkeye's death"

Bucky is really a time traveling Hawkeye!

[thik_3rd]

"captain america" is really the skull and has used to cosmic cube to sucessfully trick everyone...
the "red skull" who died was really cap...
up this when 6 drops so i can say i told you so...

[Kirk G]

Yeah, discovering that Cap thawed out is not really Steve Rogers, or, that the skull has messed with his mind so that he THOUGHT he was Capt. America would really be retcon...

But with Cap remembering changes in the history leading up to buckey's death, I'm willing to bet it has something more to do with Bucky... either Cap IS Bucky, and not Steve Rogers... due to the skull using the flawed cube, or, the skull has tried to alter the past,with a flawed cube, and the result will be Bucky appearing... abet in a flawed form...as a misunderstood, confused villian or as a puppet of the Skull...

Or else everything that we have seen in this series so far is a lie, because the skull DID used the flawed cube to attempt to change things, and it's responsible for Cap's new attitude, etc.

But it might be really kool for Capt to get his mits on the cube, and have one wish... so that he either can save Bucky OR Clint... and he chooses Hawkeye, cause so much water has gone under the bridge that Marvel's Continuity Editor's head would explode and Marvel history would have to be rewritten...

So, I'm betting that it'll be a recent change that gets undone... or done... Clint is coming back! :p

[Lothar]

Yeah, discovering that Cap thawed out is not really Steve Rogers, or, that the skull has messed with his mind so that he THOUGHT he was Capt. America would really be retcon...

But with Cap remembering changes in the history leading up to buckey's death, I'm willing to bet it has something more to do with Bucky... either Cap IS Bucky, and not Steve Rogers... due to the skull using the flawed cube, or, the skull has tried to alter the past,with a flawed cube, and the result will be Bucky appearing... abet in a flawed form...as a misunderstood, confused villian or as a puppet of the Skull...

Or else everything that we have seen in this series so far is a lie, because the skull DID used the flawed cube to attempt to change things, and it's responsible for Cap's new attitude, etc.

But it might be really kool for Capt to get his mits on the cube, and have one wish... so that he either can save Bucky OR Clint... and he chooses Hawkeye, cause so much water has gone under the bridge that Marvel's Continuity Editor's head would explode and Marvel history would have to be rewritten...

So, I'm betting that it'll be a recent change that gets undone... or done... Clint is coming back! :p


Would be an interesting thing to happen

[discostu]

It'll be the return of Paladin!(Sp?)

[StoneGold]

It turns out that Cap is really Canadian.

[The Fury]

Red Skull is Cap's father.



What?

[Neolucifer]

Cap is in fact Ben Reilly

[Alan2099]

Bucky was a Nazi Spy!
Captain America and Captain Britain are the same person!
Captain America's parents were nazis!
Jean Grey isn't really dead!
Nick Fury works for Red Skull!
The whole Captain America thawed out from ice was a dream. He's realy been freezing to death and halucinating the whole time!
The Governemnt demands he give back the Captain AMerica costume so he does a strip tease in front of everybody!
Hawkeye and Captain America switched costumes on a bet and it was actually Cap who was killed!

[Smuggletrain]

"captain america" is really the skull and has used to cosmic cube to sucessfully trick everyone...
the "red skull" who died was really cap...
up this when 6 drops so i can say i told you so...


So you're banking that the big reveal is a rip-off of a "What If.." story that wasn't that great to begin with.

[Crimson]

It turns out that Cap is really Canadian.

I can see it now.

Red Skull "Your Candian! CANDIAN"
Captain America "Your lying aboot the whole thing! Wait... aboot!? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

[Cayman]

The speculation in the first post seems logical.

Never quite understood the sanctity of Bucky's death myself. He was no Toro!

Cay

[moebius]

What about the Russians? It seems like where Brubaker was going with issue 1 was a return to the Cold War. Now we're into issue 3, and it's like they fell off a cliff.

A revived Soviet Union would make for an interesting continuity change, at least for a while.

[StoneGold]

What about the Russians? It seems like where Brubaker was going with issue 1 was a return to the Cold War. Now we're into issue 3, and it's like they fell off a cliff.

A revived Soviet Union would make for an interesting continuity change, at least for a while.
That's kind of a cool idea, but it seems more DC-ish than Marvel, in that Marvel likes it's world to relatively reflect the real world a little more. No President Luthor type stuff. Besides, it seems a little desperate, reviving an old threat because using the real one inevitably will end up feeling creepy and racist.

[Kirk G]

It's Buckey...
Despite all the announcements that only Bucky and Dr. Storm are the only two unchangable deaths in the marvel universe... the big relelation will be that <spoiler>





BUCKEY NEVER DIED!!!!
The body has never been found...,presumed blown to bits... but just as Cap has somehow been saved by suspended annimation... so did Bucky.... except in his case, he was recovered by the Soviets... and they have held onto him, in a tank, "growing" him, replacing his severed limbs with artificial ones... until now he is the "new Red Guardian"... and will be Cap's deadliest foe... brainwashed to believe that Cap never came for him... never cared to come look for him... that he wasn't worth saving, etc.

The resolution will be that Cap gets to choose who to use the Cosmic Cube on to restore.... will it be Buckey... back to how he "was" (cap's friend and junvenille partner) or Clint Barton...his friend and Avengers companion.

My money is on Clint... cause you can't put the genie back in the bottle, after Buckey has grown up, believing as he does.... it wouldn't be right to force him to become a teen mascot again... that's even more cruel that the brainwashing that the Soviets performed on him.

So, my money is on Buckey as Red Guardian knocking off Cap's sidekicks... and will be caught by Cap as he gets around to either Sharon Carter or Sam Wilson....</spoil> :eek:

[LoneWolf21]

Cap really knew what a Ecdysiast was before Rick Jones' bachelor party, but he has to keep up his appearance, after all.

[StoneGold]

It ends up that Captain America was really yep, you guessed it, Frank Stallone.
http://www.pmpnetwork.com/Frank_Stallone/frank2.jpg

[Phoney Bone]

After reading some hints like "Brubaker will have to stay away from message boards after this issue will come out" or "their [the readers] heads will explode and will let them forget Hawkeye's death" and some guessing (a lot of characters died that were well-known to Captain America, some close, some not so close and Jack didn't know his murderer, the flashbacks to Steve's past) will let me put my money on

Bucky's return as a villain.



Oh, will you "hush."


The REAL kicker.....

THE RED SKULL'S TRUE FACE......


http://jb.24-7intouch.com/forum/uploads/JohnByrne/2004-04-28_113849_SexyBeast.jpg

[LukeRed5]

I haven't picked up the new Cap book. Can someone give me a quick run down on what's happened so far?

Also, if Marvel brings Bucky back, Uncle Ben isn't too far behind. Stupid Marvel.

[Bishop_Proudstar]

[speculation]

Steve Rogers is related to The Skull...



or Bucky was a German defector who was related to The Skull. He guided Steve to beat him for The Super Soldier Program...

He learned an American accent, and was less of a "sidekick" than previous stories told....

He would suggest certain tactics to Steve that were based on growing-up around The Red Skull and the rise of The Nazis..

Now:
Bucky's german grandson has returned to seek vengance for his father grandfather being brainwashed to betray The Nazis...


No "Hush".... It just so happens that he looks alot like his grandfather...

He is planning major revenge for Nick Fury as well, and will attempt to assasinate The Falcon and others in Steve's life...

[Will.S]

It ends up that Captain America was really yep, you guessed it, Frank Stallone.
http://www.pmpnetwork.com/Frank_Stallone/frank2.jpg
What's with you and Frank Stallone?

[Cayman]

There never was a Bucky!!!

Bucky is just a false memory Steve has been implanted with.





It makes no sense, but it'd be freaky, non?

Cay

[Ronald Bryan]

There never was a Bucky!!!

Bucky is just a false memory Steve has been implanted with.





It makes no sense, but it'd be freaky, non?

Cay
Maybe we'll find out that Steve is actually living in a computer reality and is actually in the War Machine universe Chuck Austen created.

[The Wayner]

These are all great ideas! But, if I had my druthers, would love to see Kirk Greenfield's "Bucky theory" come to life. Could really dig seeing that one. :D

[Colossus]

It ends up that Captain America was really yep, you guessed it, Frank Stallone.
http://www.pmpnetwork.com/Frank_Stallone/frank2.jpg

I am still bitter because as I child, I never got a "Tickle Me Frank Stallone" doll.

[Dial Tone]

I'll take a wild stab in the dark here. Baron Zemo Sr. is coming back. Brubaker got rid of the Red Skull to make way for another arch villian to take his place.

[C.O. Jones]

These are all great ideas! But, if I had my druthers, would love to see Kirk Greenfield's "Bucky theory" come to life. Could really dig seeing that one. :D


That WAS great, wasn't it!? I wish I hadn't have read it and spoiled it for myself! Damn ya, Greenfield!

[StoneGold]

What's with you and Frank Stallone?
It's an old running gag back from when Norm MacDonald was doing Weekend Update on SNL.

[Phrozen]

I'll take a wild stab in the dark here. Baron Zemo Sr. is coming back. Brubaker got rid of the Red Skull to make way for another arch villian to take his place.

Then Helmut would fight him for control of the Zemo estate and right now Helmut has alot more punch then his dad ever did.

[Sharcque]

These are all great ideas! But, if I had my druthers, would love to see Kirk Greenfield's "Bucky theory" come to life. Could really dig seeing that one. :D
What was the theory? Or can you provide a link?

[The Wayner]

It's on page 2 of this thread, but here it is, again:

It's Buckey...
Despite all the announcements that only Bucky and Dr. Storm are the only two unchangable deaths in the marvel universe... the big relelation will be that <spoiler>





BUCKEY NEVER DIED!!!!
The body has never been found...,presumed blown to bits... but just as Cap has somehow been saved by suspended annimation... so did Bucky.... except in his case, he was recovered by the Soviets... and they have held onto him, in a tank, "growing" him, replacing his severed limbs with artificial ones... until now he is the "new Red Guardian"... and will be Cap's deadliest foe... brainwashed to believe that Cap never came for him... never cared to come look for him... that he wasn't worth saving, etc.

The resolution will be that Cap gets to choose who to use the Cosmic Cube on to restore.... will it be Buckey... back to how he "was" (cap's friend and junvenille partner) or Clint Barton...his friend and Avengers companion.

My money is on Clint... cause you can't put the genie back in the bottle, after Buckey has grown up, believing as he does.... it wouldn't be right to force him to become a teen mascot again... that's even more cruel that the brainwashing that the Soviets performed on him.

So, my money is on Buckey as Red Guardian knocking off Cap's sidekicks... and will be caught by Cap as he gets around to either Sharon Carter or Sam Wilson....</spoil> :eek:

[Neolucifer]

Cap is black !! Once again it was wanda reality altering powers hidding that simple truth !!! :D

[Dennis K]

Bucky is the Red Skull

[Thunderous Monkey]

Bucky didn't really die, He woke up thinking his real name was Ben Parker. He grew up and married a girl named May. Later he was killed by a bank robber trying to escape the police..........

[SirChasm]

Well going to throw in my 2 cents and guess that Steve really did kill the Skull we don't see who fired the shot do we? ;)

[jade_nova]

Captain America likes to wear womens underwear.

[Kirk G]

Captain America likes to wear womens underwear.
Aw, that's old news by now.... :D

[Alan2099]

Bucky survived and was really a black nazi. He killed Hawkeye because Clint was wearing women's underwear

[Dr. Hfuhruhurr]

Ed Brubaker will be revealed as ...

the Red Skull!

Or Bucky.

Or Bernie.

I'm not sure. I'm so confused.

[ouiyahtsiouiyah]

if Bucky does come back it may just be a ripoff of the current Batman arc were the Red Hood comes back and is speculated to be...Jason Todd...afterall Ed was writing Batman just before he went to Cap,

must have dead sidekicks on brain or something

[Ivan Isaacs]

Captain America likes to wear womens underwear.

Not only that - but he likes to wear their costume in pulic, too. :D

if Bucky does come back it may just be a ripoff of the current Batman arc were the Red Hood comes back and is speculated to be...Jason Todd...afterall Ed was writing Batman just before he went to Cap,

must have dead sidekicks on brain or something

Yeah, but we never saw Bucky's body - so he died as much as Hawkeye did. :D

And even IF Brubaker would bring him back (which I hope he won't do), I have enough faith in him to make this story work (Brubaker is one of the few writers who have yet to disappoint me). :)

But for me superhero characters never die - they are just "temporarily unavailable". :D

[Doom Hammer]

It's Buckey...
Despite all the announcements that only Bucky and Dr. Storm are the only two unchangable deaths in the marvel universe... the big relelation will be that <spoiler>





BUCKEY NEVER DIED!!!!
The body has never been found...,presumed blown to bits... but just as Cap has somehow been saved by suspended annimation... so did Bucky.... except in his case, he was recovered by the Soviets... and they have held onto him, in a tank, "growing" him, replacing his severed limbs with artificial ones... until now he is the "new Red Guardian"... and will be Cap's deadliest foe... brainwashed to believe that Cap never came for him... never cared to come look for him... that he wasn't worth saving, etc.

The resolution will be that Cap gets to choose who to use the Cosmic Cube on to restore.... will it be Buckey... back to how he "was" (cap's friend and junvenille partner) or Clint Barton...his friend and Avengers companion.

My money is on Clint... cause you can't put the genie back in the bottle, after Buckey has grown up, believing as he does.... it wouldn't be right to force him to become a teen mascot again... that's even more cruel that the brainwashing that the Soviets performed on him.

So, my money is on Buckey as Red Guardian knocking off Cap's sidekicks... and will be caught by Cap as he gets around to either Sharon Carter or Sam Wilson....</spoil> :eek:

...I don't buy Captain America. He's cool and all and I keep up with him, but I stay mostly on the "X" side of Marvel for solo books and the such.

If the arc turned out to be like that, I would HAVE to buy that comic.

[Mister Mets]

i wouldnt be too surprised . Lately its the exact kind of things that pissed fans of in Amazing spidey (ok sightly different) or avengers and xmen :D

Actually Stan Lee, and Gil Kane played on the idea of a villainous Bucky in a 4 part Tales of Suspense Captain America story.

[comic_lover]

SPOILERS****************************************** **************************************SPOILERS**** ***********************************************SPO ILERS********************************************* ******SPOILERS****************************SPOILERS *************************SPOILERS***************** ******DONT READ THIS IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...........................................










...................Cap dies after being struck with a stray bullet.A frigging stray bullet ? What in the hell ????????????? Stupid idea,dumb story. :rolleyes: cHECK THIS OUT - http://www.knightmare6.com/-LJ/01.jpg So what,he's a zombie in The Avengers book ?? :confused:

[StoneGold]

SPOILERS****************************************** **************************************SPOILERS**** ***********************************************SPO ILERS********************************************* ******SPOILERS****************************SPOILERS *************************SPOILERS***************** ******DONT READ THIS IF YOU DON'T WANT TO KNOW.............................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...........................................










...................Cap dies after being struck with a stray bullet.A frigging stray bullet ? What in the hell ????????????? Stupid idea,dumb story. :rolleyes: cHECK THIS OUT - http://www.knightmare6.com/-LJ/01.jpg So what,he's a zombie in The Avengers book ?? :confused:
Dude, wrong friggin' book. It happened in Cap/Falcon, which a good chunk of has all been about illusions and mind control. So three guesses what this is, ya panicky bastich?

[comic_lover]

Dude, wrong friggin' book. It happened in Cap/Falcon, which a good chunk of has all been about illusions and mind control. So three guesses what this is, ya panicky bastich?OOPS.I confused the books.LOL...Dammit,what a cluster_. :rolleyes: Excuse me while I hit myself in the head with a frying pan.

[comic_lover]

I've heard the big secret in Captain America is that the killer of The Red Skull,Mother Night,and Nomad is.......

S


P


O


I


L


I


E


R





............Bucky ?!?!?!?! What the hell ? I really hope this was a joke,but since it was from the same guy who told me Jason Todd was back...it just might be true ! What are your thoughts,true believers ? Do you think Marvel and Joe Q would really let Bru bring the one person back that everyone safely thought was dead forever ? :eek:

[Alan2099]

If Bucky is back, then I've lost what little faith in Marvel I had left.

[fnhspidey]

We can always hope that he is really Chameleon and it is all a big ploy by Red Skull to f$#^ with Cap's head.

[comic_lover]

If Bucky is back, then I've lost what little faith in Marvel I had left.
I agree,not that comic books in general aren't getting horrendously bad already. :( Avengers Disassembled,New Avengers,Identity Crisis,Countdown....like the comicbook bodycount isn't high enough ? I enjoy Brubaker's take on Cap,but if this is the case,I just might throw my hands up and say " to hell with it ." :( What's worse is this same guy tells me Sharon might be " fair game. " Sigh.

[Brian R]

I really doubt its Bucky, but then again, I would have bet all my comics that the Red Hood wasnt Jason Todd, so who knows? However, let me say that in my view, bringing back Bucky as a villain would be a hundred times worse than doing the same with Jason.

[Jake V]

Given that every single one of Comic_lover's "predictions" has turned out to be wrong, I see no reason to believe this.

In fact, I'll take the fact that he said it was going to happen as a guarantee that it WON'T happen.

[nubly]

i agree that this is just heresay. i mean theres no source cited other than "the guy who said jason todd was returning". ok....

[Jake V]

since it was from the same guy who told me Jason Todd was back...it just might be true !
Was this the same guy who told you that Sasha was the Red Hood? :rolleyes:

[static]

i think its BS as well but the presence of the cosmic cube F#@ks the whole situation ...all speculation is possible and explainable when a variable that alters reality is present.

and if its bucky then i am really disapointed in brubaker who i considered an above average writer with great potential

i have faith we will all be happily surprised with the answer...why would bucky desicrate graves of the other caps, in marvel continuity he met at least one of those guys as Patriot in Invaders and they were friends, Cap didnt kill bucky and never dishonored his memory, (didnt he meet and help his sister or other relative something years ago?) it would be a hack ass writing job to start your run on cap with the return of a pissed off alive again Bucky. (still think jason todd returning is = to blue/red superman)

but what the hell do i know --spidey talks to bugs now ...

[Trystenn]

I seriously hope this is just Marvel trying to stick it to DC.

[comic_lover]

Given that every single one of Comic_lover's "predictions" has turned out to be wrong, I see no reason to believe this.

In fact, I'll take the fact that he said it was going to happen as a guarantee that it WON'T happen.Funny.....I was right about Jason Todd. ( or should I say my source was ) :cool:

[Jake V]

So was everyone else. It was the worst kept secret in comics. This was after you predicted that sasha was the red hood.

You were wrong several times about who Wolverine would kill, each prediction was attributed to a "source".

You were wrong about Captain America getting shot and killed.

Either stop making ridiculous claims or get a new "source."

[comic_lover]

Was this the same guy who told you that Sasha was the Red Hood? :rolleyes:
He got his wires crossed..he was basically trying to tell me about the countdown storyline and the Batman storyline all at the same time,LOL.Dale is a rather hyper chap,and at times I have to say " uh...what ? " Just like now,when he tells me Bucky is involved,and I said " Say.... What ? " Another tidbit he has passed on to me is that apparently other heroes are going to die and be ressurected.....like Hawkgirl and Hawkman.Word is Katar Hol may be back but he's not sure.Man,I hope so.I also would like to know the deal with Charlie Parker,because I hear he's came back to life too.I'm just waiting for him to tell me that Jim Corrigan is coming back as The Spectre....but word is that it may be Robin's Dad though,and if that's true,that sucks.He was right about Jean Loring being the new Eclipso though,so who knows.out of all the things this guy has told me,I only question one ; he says Hush is Harvey Dent.Sorry,but last I checked Harvey isn't a doctor,let alone a surgeon.Eh,take it with a grain of salt,I do.I just thought ya might wanna know. :)

[comic_lover]

So was everyone else. It was the worst kept secret in comics. This was after you predicted that sasha was the red hood.

You were wrong several times about who Wolverine would kill, each prediction was attributed to a "source".

You were wrong about Captain America getting shot and killed.

Either stop making ridiculous claims or get a new "source." Who Wolverine would kill was changed several times,that I know to be a fact.It was settled on Northstar because of a storyline that Millar wanted to go with.Cap was shot and was killed in Cap and Falcon,at least for a while.BTW,Jason was revealed to be ressurected in Hush.The person Batman fought was Jason.Clayface just switched places with him at the end to mess with Batman's head.

[Ivan Isaacs]

Normally I'd hate to see Bucky return (dead IS dead!!!) but Brubaker would be the only at this time I'd trust enough to pull this off and make it interesting.
Sure, every effect but be destroyed because as of now the book is hopelessly late. Not in terms of NYX-late or Iron Man late, but late.

[comic_lover]

Normally I'd hate to see Bucky return (dead IS dead!!!) but Brubaker would be the only at this time I'd trust enough to pull this off and make it interesting.
Sure, every effect but be destroyed because as of now the book is hopelessly late. Not in terms of NYX-late or Iron Man late, but late.Books ( at times ) become late because someone usually lets the cat out of the bag and they change the storyline.Hush anyone ? Of course you also have the obvious,tweaking storylines and missed deadlines due to artist difficulties...let's hope whatever happens it's a good story. ( Cosmic Cube anyone ? )

[Brian R]

Books become late because someone usually lets the cat out of the bag and they change the storyline.Hush anyone ?

You actually think that a writer and editor team, who plan storylines months in advance, are going to scrap their ending at the last second because someone figured it out online? I have never heard of this happening with Hush, at least not from anyone remotely trustworthy, what is your source?

[Brian Cronin]

You actually think that a writer and editor team, who plan storylines months in advance, are going to scrap their ending at the last second because someone figured it out online? I have never heard of this happening with Hush, at least not from anyone remotely trustworthy, what is your source?

Armageddon 2001 was changed because the reveal was leaked.

-Brian

[comic_lover]

You actually think that a writer and editor team, who plan storylines months in advance, are going to scrap their ending at the last second because someone figured it out online? I have never heard of this happening with Hush, at least not from anyone remotely trustworthy, what is your source?At times they cant decide on a storyline ( as was witnessed with Captain Atom being replaced with Hank Hall ( Hawk of Hawk and Dove fame ) and they change it at the last minute.Months in advance be damned,these are artists we are talking about,and if someone thinks something else is a good idea,they run with it.Who's my source ? The industry track record as a whole ! Case in point : Avengers JLA took forever to get done,although previously George Perez had done numerous pages on the project when it was scheduled previously back in the eighties.Read or simply talk with professionals at various comic conventions and they'll give you the lowdown.Things change,ideas change.That's the breaks when you work in an artistic field.Same thing happens with movies,except when your talking a potential millions of dollars you usually have to complete it.See the story of how Cleopatra got made. :cool:

[comic_lover]

Armageddon 2001 was changed because the reveal was leaked.

-Brian...and I thought I could type fast ! :eek: Sorry I started a new thread,I didn't realize there was already one started and I had just received the e-mail telling me the 411.

[Brian R]

At times they cant decide on a storyline ( as was witnessed with Captain Atom being replaced with Hank Hall ( Hawk of Hawk and Dove fame ) and they change it at the last minute.Months in advance be damned,these are artists we are talking about,and if someone thinks something else is a good idea,they run with it.Who's my source ? The industry track record as a whole ! Case in point : Avengers JLA took forever to get done,although previously George Perez had done numerous pages on the project when it was scheduled previously back in the eighties.Read or simply talk with professionals at various comic conventions and they'll give you the lowdown.Things change,ideas change.That's the breaks when you work in an artistic field.Same thing happens with movies,except when your talking a potential millions of dollars you usually have to complete it.See the story of how Cleopatra got made. :cool:

That is people changing a storyline because they changed their minds, or stuff not happening because of publishers, you still havent answered how and why the ending of Hush was altered due to some sort of leak.


@Brian
WTF was Armageddon 2001?

[comic_lover]

That is people changing a storyline because they changed their minds, or stuff not happening because of publishers, you still havent answered how and why the ending of Hush was altered due to some sort of leak.


@Brian
WTF was Armageddon 2001?The idea of Robin being Hush was leaked before the issue revealing the identity went to press,and it was changed so that Hush was somebody else.Apparently Loeb or DC or whomever thought it wouldn't be a good idea to bring back Todd at the time.Judd Winnick was talking about it a while ago,and alluded to the connection of Jason being back earlier than Batman # 638.....It's got to be online somewhere and when I find it I'll post it on here.Here's a great discussion about the web and creating comics from this here website ! http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=982
Don't let them fool you...they do worry about leaked storylines.... :cool: but then again they prepare for that too,hence changes occur.......like in Hush.

[Ivan Isaacs]

WTF was Armageddon 2001?

A Crossover story over at DC (taken place mainly in the Annuals of the monthly titles):
http://omega.animefringe.com/dcevents/Event_Armageddon.html

[melike]

Man. I use to love Cap. Lost all interest in him lately though. Reading through this has reignited my interest though. But seriously how many times can they relaunch a series. 400 + issues, then 13, then 40 or so, then,what,10, now starting again.
Anyway..

[Ivan Isaacs]

78 (CAC), 454/355 (V1*), 13 (V2**), 50 (V3) and 32 (V4) to be precisely. ;)

* minus 99 issues of Tales of Suspense
** was always intended to be a limited series

Unlike DC Marvels seems to be obsessed with rebooting a title over and over and over instead of just putting an all-star team on it. No, they have an all-star team and still have to reboot it.

[18-Till-I-Die]

Somehow i think this will tie into the events in Young Avengers and Truth. Since they seem to be brining that story line back.

I think somehow Cap wil get killed or diabled (for a time, it is comics) and the original Black Cap will end up taking his place. Now he's not in the best of...condition. But something to do with the cosmic cube might change that.

Just a theory mind you, but better than that Buck is a Villian mess, eh? :cool:

[SUPERMAN PRIME]

i really liked the captain america being canadian joke . how about a clone saga ???

[nubly]

Funny.....I was right about Jason Todd. ( or should I say my source was ) :cool:

i sincerely hope that you never buy drugs from this source of yours. he'll be selling you bunk

[Doom Hammer]

Normally I'd hate to see Bucky return (dead IS dead!!!) but Brubaker would be the only at this time I'd trust enough to pull this off and make it interesting.

All this hype about the book forced (and I do mean forced) me to go out and buy #1-4.

After reading it, I have come to this conclusion:

I've always believed Bucky's death to be sacred.

But if the mystery assassin is in fact Bucky, under these circumstances, I would be impressed. Amazed, actually. Excited beyond all reasonable comprehension.

There. I've said it.

It's about time that Cap's greatest failure came back to haunt something more than his nightmares.

[venuscameback]

BTW,Jason was revealed to be ressurected in Hush.The person Batman fought was Jason.Clayface just switched places with him at the end to mess with Batman's head.

whoa! that really happened? If so I should have read Hush more closely ... I didn't relaise Jason Todd was ever really there, I thought it was Clayface all along.

was this is the Hush storyline, or ret-conned/revealed later?


venus

[Fireball]

How long is it going to take for people to realize that the whole thing has been organized by gypsies?

[Gauss]

whoa! that really happened? If so I should have read Hush more closely ... I didn't relaise Jason Todd was ever really there, I thought it was Clayface all along.

was this is the Hush storyline, or ret-conned/revealed later?


venus

It hasn't even technically been "revealed" yet. We do know that Jason is really back (as the Red Hood), and Judd Winnick implied in an interview that the Jason who appeared in Hush was, at least temporarily, the real deal, before he swapped places with Clayface.

[Chris Lang]

[QUOTE=Alan2099]Bucky was a Nazi Spy!
QUOTE]

No, it's Captain America HIMSELF who's the Nazi spy! You see, long ago, the Nazis planted a 'sleeper agent' in the US, replacing the murdered Steve Rogers. This sleeper agent would believe he was Steve Rogers until the trigger phrase re-awakened his memories. Ironically enough, he became Captain America -- one of the Nazi's worst enemies.

But in the coming storyline, he'll get his memories back, and go completely mad as a result. He'll end up being mortally wounded in a vicious and gruesome fight, his last words being "Heil Hitler!". The whole thing will be hushed up by the government, who will give the Captain America costume to a new, younger (and presumably 'hipper') replacement.

I don't put it past Marvel to do this, considering the whole Gwen Stacy 'Sins Past' fiasco in the Spider-books. At both Marvel and DC, it seems that horrible self-indulgent ideas that would have been rejected twenty years ago (or even 15 years ago) are getting published these days, causing the storylines to resemble bad fan fiction. (But I think that's a discussion for a seperate thread).

And yes, this IS the sort of thing that if a writer did it, they'd do well to avoid the message boards for a while...

Of course, the 'shocking revelation' might be something controversial for different reasons than violating continuity or characterization. It might be politically controversial, like having George W. Bush turn out to be the storyline's principal villain or something. It's not like it's without precedent, though. Steve Englehart made Richard Nixon the head of the Secret Empire. Though he didn't show Nixon's face or use Nixon's name, it was obvious that it was, indeed, Nixon.

Chris Lang

[Alan2099]

Or maybe not only is the President secretly evil, but he's also BUCKY! Then he kills Captain America for being a NAzi spy and replaces him with ... umm... a new guy who's actually the son of Red Skull and Gwen Stacy.

[Kirk G]

Nixon? Head of a secret clandestine surveilance team?
Get out of town!!!
Links! We want links to the cover of the issue....

[pureclint]

[QUOTE=Alan2099]Bucky was a Nazi Spy!
QUOTE]

No, it's Captain America HIMSELF who's the Nazi spy! You see, long ago, the Nazis planted a 'sleeper agent' in the US, replacing the murdered Steve Rogers. This sleeper agent would believe he was Steve Rogers until the trigger phrase re-awakened his memories. Ironically enough, he became Captain America -- one of the Nazi's worst enemies.

But in the coming storyline, he'll get his memories back, and go completely mad as a result. He'll end up being mortally wounded in a vicious and gruesome fight, his last words being "Heil Hitler!". The whole thing will be hushed up by the government, who will give the Captain America costume to a new, younger (and presumably 'hipper') replacement.

I don't put it past Marvel to do this, considering the whole Gwen Stacy 'Sins Past' fiasco in the Spider-books. At both Marvel and DC, it seems that horrible self-indulgent ideas that would have been rejected twenty years ago (or even 15 years ago) are getting published these days, causing the storylines to resemble bad fan fiction. (But I think that's a discussion for a seperate thread).

And yes, this IS the sort of thing that if a writer did it, they'd do well to avoid the message boards for a while...

Of course, the 'shocking revelation' might be something controversial for different reasons than violating continuity or characterization. It might be politically controversial, like having George W. Bush turn out to be the storyline's principal villain or something. It's not like it's without precedent, though. Steve Englehart made Richard Nixon the head of the Secret Empire. Though he didn't show Nixon's face or use Nixon's name, it was obvious that it was, indeed, Nixon.

Chris Lang


How can you rate the fact that a character had a one night stand to altering the core of Captain America and making him a Nazi? I would think the the Spider Clone story was a fiasco (not even sure the "Gwen got some story should be a fiasco) worthy of comparison to the idea of Cap being a spy all this time. Also, am I correct with you thining IC is what DC has done that is so horrible?

I have enough respect for EB's body of work and treatment of the character so far to expect only positives from the surprise.

[Chris Lang]

Nixon? Head of a secret clandestine surveilance team?
Get out of town!!!
Links! We want links to the cover of the issue....

I'm not making it up. It really happened in the Captain America comics, published around the time of Watergate. For more info, go to Steve Englehart's web site at www.steveenglehart.com (http://www.steveenglehart.com)

There, you will find the cover of the issue in the 'comics' section, as well as some background info on it. It's never ever stated in the comics themselves that it was Nixon, only that it was a 'high-ranking government official'. But it's painfully obvious that it's Nixon, despite Steve Englehart's self-censorship.

Chris Lang

[Red State Cap]

I have a hard time buying into the rumors that Bucky is the mystery cyborg. Here is my line of reasoning, which I originally posted on the CAMB:
1) The cyborg in Lukin's possession elicited this reaction from the Red Skull: "This can't be WHAT it looks like." To me, that implies that it's no one the Red Skull recognizes personally, in which case he would've said "This can't be WHO it looks like."
2) I believe that the Red Skull would have been unable to resist indulging in a bit of "nostalgia" had he recognized Bucky.
3) It could be argued that the Red Skull might not recognize a mature Bucky 60 years later. But then, why would he be so impressed seeing an otherwise anonymous cyborg in a tank?
4) The mystery cyborg is supposed to become an A-list villain. First, I think most people would be put off by Bucky's resurrection in the first place, but to be installed as an A-list bad guy? Who is going to believe that? Bucky is too rooted as Cap's WWII sidekick (where he should stay) to ever be a credible bad guy.
5) Of course, my reasoning is only valid assuming that the dialogue reads like it should and is not just a piece of imprecise writing by Mr. Brubaker.

I actually put some stock in the idea that Captain America IV/The Grand Director might be the culprit. He could have the "credentials" as the former Captain America (IV) to be a bigtime villain. And recall that he "died" in the same issue that Sharon "died." There could be some connection there that Mr. Brubaker plans to utilize.

RSC

[Chris Lang]

[QUOTE=Chris Lang]


How can you rate the fact that a character had a one night stand to altering the core of Captain America and making him a Nazi? I would think the the Spider Clone story was a fiasco (not even sure the "Gwen got some story should be a fiasco) worthy of comparison to the idea of Cap being a spy all this time. Also, am I correct with you thining IC is what DC has done that is so horrible?

I have enough respect for EB's body of work and treatment of the character so far to expect only positives from the surprise.

"Sins Past" was atrocious because it was out of character for Gwen Stacy, and it did not in any way fit in with the previous stories. Gwen Stacy was not the sort of person who would have 'pity sex' with her boyfriend's best friend's father, and if she did, she couldn't have kept it secret from Peter. Yes, some girls are attracted to 'strength and magnetism' of rich, powerful older men, but nothing in the old stories indicated that Gwen was that sort. The Gwen 'revelation' just doesn't make sense when you go back and re-read the earlier stories. There's no 'aha!' moment where you can say 'Oh, so there's when it happened'. The same sort of logic used to say that Gwen slept with Norman and bore his kids could be used to establish that Batman and Robin are gay lovers. All you have to do is just ignore parts of the old stories that would indicate otherwise.

And yes, Identity Crisis left a bad taste in my mouth. It forces Ralph and Sue Dibny into the sort of story they were not created to be in. And Dr. Light's being portrayed as a rapist comes across as ludicrous on several levels (including, but not limited to, the consistant characterization level). The JLA's vote to tamper with Dr. Light's mind just seems 'forced', as if the writer was trying desperately to think of some dark secret from the JLA's past and this was the best he could come up with on short notice. And it's completely out of character for Green Arrow (or at least the Green Arrow I'm familiar with from reading the Denny O'Neil stories) to go along with it.

IC even failed to satisfy on the 'whodunnit' level. The motivation for Jean Loring seems absurd, and really, if you were discussing it with someone who hadn't read it, you'd realize how ridiculous it was. "Jean didn't mean to kill Sue Dibny, but she brought along a blowtorch just in case." To accept that, you can't just suspend disbelief. No, you have to take disbelief and shoot it through the head like the Blue Beetle.

And speaking of which, I didn't care much for DC Countdown, either, as it takes the DC Universe further down the road into an unrelentingly grim and anti-heroic atmosphere. There's a place for grim and anti-heroic, but the mainstream DC Universe isn't it.

So, with all this in mind, it wouldn't surprise me if Marvel DID retcon Steve Rogers into a Nazi sleeper agent. I'm just hoping they don't. As for Ed Brubaker, what I've seen of his work seems good. I'm hoping that whatever the 'big revelation' is, it won't cause too much 'damage' to the characters as we know them.

I'm not sure what to think of a resurrection of Bucky or the original Baron Zemo. Some six years ago, I would have groaned about damaging the credibility of death in comics. Nowadays, bringing back a character who's been dead for decades real-world time seems rather quaint.

Chris Lang

[Alan2099]

[QUOTE=pureclint]

"Sins Past" was atrocious because it was out of character for Gwen Stacy, and it did not in any way fit in with the previous stories. Gwen Stacy was not the sort of person who would have 'pity sex' with her boyfriend's best friend's father, and if she did, she couldn't have kept it secret from Peter. Yes, some girls are attracted to 'strength and magnetism' of rich, powerful older men, but nothing in the old stories indicated that Gwen was that sort. The Gwen 'revelation' just doesn't make sense when you go back and re-read the earlier stories. There's no 'aha!' moment where you can say 'Oh, so there's when it happened'. The same sort of logic used to say that Gwen slept with Norman and bore his kids could be used to establish that Batman and Robin are gay lovers----that slept with Norman Osborne. :evilsmile