European Avengers: Good or Bad idea?

[The Fury]

After talk about a Marvel international line and talk about a team or Avengers based in Europe. I thought I'd do some research.


Basically, the idea would be that a team of mainly European Avengers would be set up by the EU to battle the Villians located in Europe and keep an eye on Latveria.

This EU setup team woudl start off by them Asking Hank Pym and Jan, who are supposed to currently be working at Cambridge, in England, to help set up an Avengers style organisation.

They go off a recruite heroes from around Europe, these could include:

Any of the numberous heroes from Britiain, Captain Britain (Kelsey), Pete Wisdom and many others
Peregine (From France)
Vormund (from Germany)
Siryn (from Ireland)
Sabra (from Isreal)
Hercules (Greek Demi-god)
Infact any Norse or Greek that want to lend a hand.


They'd then battle such villians as Count Neferia or Morgan le Faye, any number of new Europe based enemies, including keeping an eye of Doom and Latveria.

What do you think? Adding, if X-men can have 3 books, why can't Avengers have 2? (not counting GLA)

[Crimson]

They'd be seen as second stringers sadly... I'd rather see more europeans and such just mixed in with the normal bunch.

[Catalyst]

Any of the numberous heroes from Britiain, Captain Britain (Kelsey), Pete Wisdom and many others
Peregine (From France)
Vormund (from Germany)
Siryn (from Ireland)
Sabra (from Isreal)
Hercules (Greek Demi-god)
Infact any Norse or Greek that want to lend a hand.


They'd then battle such villians as Count Neferia or Morgan le Faye, any number of new Europe based enemies, including keeping an eye of Doom and Latveria.


sure. there could be an official group of reserve Avengers on the other side of the globe. i don't consider Pete Wisdom to be a british hero though. he was a government assassin before just hanging out with Excalibur. he's not really Avengers material, imo, although me might be an adequate fill in for Gyrich. and during the Kang War we saw Le Pegrine and Micromax fighting alongside the Avengers. i'd just make them a part of Avengers International, add Crimson Dynamo, Sabra, and maybe T'challa could be their unofficial leader. of course, Kelsey would already be there to join in. come to think of it, it might make more sense to just have every country have their own superhero team; not necessarily an Avengers affiliate. but there are enough british heroes to form a UK Avengers.



Britain:
Captain Britain (Captain America)
Black Knight (Iron Man)
Spitfire (Quicksilver)
Union Jack (Hawkeye)
Micromax (Giant-Man)


Russia:
Steel Guardian (Captain America)
Crimson Dynamo (Iron Man)
Perun (Thor)
Ursa Major (Giant-Man)
Vostok (Vision)
Fantasma (Scarlet Witch)


or combining the idea (the current Avengers team has 8 members, so that's what i'm limiting myself to)

1.Captain Britain (obvious) alternate: Union Jack
2.Black Panther (Wakanda)
3.Sabra (Israel)
4.Crimson Dynamo (Russia) alternate: Ursa Major
5.Le Peregrine (France)
6.Bolt-Thrower (Germany)
7. ?
8. ?

[Catalyst]

They'd be seen as second stringers sadly... I'd rather see more europeans and such just mixed in with the normal bunch.


they wouldn't be seen as second-stringers if they kicked the other teams rears in a competition. besides that, you could always use some of the former Avengers as members; Captain Britain and Black Panther for instance. Le Peregrine and Micromax already fought at the Avengers side. so why would they be considered second stringers?

[Expletive Deleted]

I don't think a spin-off book is a bad idea, per se, but that cast seems a bit off to me.

Strictly in terms of sales survival, I think at least one more bigger name might be necessary. Hank, Jan, and Hercules are great characters, but I don't know if they're big enough draws.

It's a pipe dream, but I'd try to get one or two castmembers from the old EXCALIBUR team away from the X-Books. Even if it were just Captain Britain (Brian) and Meggan, I think you'd be in better shape. If it were Nightcrawler and Colossus, you'd be set.

[Expletive Deleted]

Le Peregrine and Micromax already fought at the Avengers side. so why would they be considered second stringers?Because they're Peregrine and Micromax?

They're not bad characters, and they could be good fits on the right team, but they're strictly D-List.

[The Fury]

I know the team may be a bit on the weak side. But second stringers or not, they should be given a chance.

I left out character such as Colossus, Nightcralwer, Spitfire and Union Jack, becuase they are in other books at the moment. But having any of those would be a good idea.

Hank and Jan would be used because they have a history with the Avengers and are no doubt known worldwide.

Of course they could create bigger and better heroes from other countries, Spain for one is lacking in heroes.

As Catalyst, there are enough UK heroes to make an entire team, but extending it to a Eurpean base might extend the character usage.

[Will.S]

I would be fine with a Avengers European branch as long as they are well crafted stories.

[Ivan Isaacs]

Do I smell AA - Avengers Antarctica?

[Indigo Al]

I don't think a spin-off book is a bad idea, per se, but that cast seems a bit off to me.

Strictly in terms of sales survival, I think at least one more bigger name might be necessary. Hank, Jan, and Hercules are great characters, but I don't know if they're big enough draws.

It's a pipe dream, but I'd try to get one or two castmembers from the old EXCALIBUR team away from the X-Books. Even if it were just Captain Britain (Brian) and Meggan, I think you'd be in better shape. If it were Nightcrawler and Colossus, you'd be set.

I agree. Avengers Europe could work, but not with Contest of Champions I rejects. No Shamrock, no Le Peregrine, no native costumes of the world gallery. Just have good imaginative concepts from the very rich MU, and it could be a hit.

[Neolucifer]

I agree with the idea , but only with the priority in mind to create a book for the oldschool avengers fans . I dont see why should the team recruit only Europeans , especially when maybe two of them are really known (cap britain and Psylocke ? :D ) .

I say just base it in Europe , its fine , but leave rooms for strangers

[Smarty Jones]

I would be happy with a European team of Avengers. But instead of taking some unknown or marginal characters, you simply could take some existing Avengers and established characters and create a unit. For instance:

Hank Pym and The Wasp: Since they're in England already, the founding members would be logical leaders and advisers to this European branch.

Black Widow: A former team leader and international spy, Natasha would look at this as a second chance to redeem herself as leader (The Avengers disbanded under her tenure in the "Heroes Reborn" era).

Union Jack: It's just a formality before "The New Invaders" book folds, and I like the current person to wear the uniform. Think of him as an unpolished Captain America.

Captain Britain II: It makes sense she would come along, considering her creation happened during The Avengers' run-in with The Wrecking Crew.

The Black Knight: A perfect first story would be with the team settling the score with The Bloodwraith -- and the fight for Dane Whitman's Ebony Blade.

Quicksilver: He may feel a bit of redemption for what happened with his sister. But there also will be tension between Pietro and Whitman over The Black Knight's dalliance with Crystal.

Ikaris: Arguably the most Earth-bound Eternal, Ikaris has spent a good portion of his life in Europe and would give the team a much-needed power boost.

If anything, this group of Avengers could have some powerful enemies: Count Nefaria and Morgan Le Fey have been mentioned, but then there is Mister Sinister, Exodus and Vargas of The X-Men fame, Batroc, Viper, The High Evolutionary and a certain ruler of Latveria.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

I would love it, but no A-listers.

How else will the little-names become big names if they aren't given a chance to shine?
As for sales, well make it a One-Shot or a 3 issue mini, to gauge sales...

[The Dosadi Experiment]

Great, so we're going to have a prudish anglo-centric team that's really no different from the American version, battling nothing of any importance because there isn't a writer in the world who dares have the title set in anything other than Britain.

If they do venture outside and abroad, they'll encounter rustic villages that haven't discovered electricity yet and seem to have been plucked out of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. And that's just Germany.

Other than that, there is no Europe in the eyes of the American public. England, Germany, and France, with England being just like America only with a different accent and the occaisonal cliff-side scenery.
Germany will be some freakish country that resembles no modern country on earth.
France exists out of Paris, Paris, and then some more Paris.

And other than that Marvel would rather venture into the wonderful world of fictional states than actually do something with the actual Europe.

[mattbib]

I agree with Smarty. It'd definitely need to be comprised of local or relocated first stringers.

There are plenty of powerful European characters, plus previous Avengers who have relocated or could relocate to the UK.

Hank and Jan are in the UK, as is Captain Britain II. Black Knight is British. Hercules has greco-roman origins. Sersi and the other Eternals on Mt. Olympia are in that region. Thor has Norse origins. Pull in a few lesser-known heroes, like Vormund, and you have a respectable Avengers franchise.

Sadly, though, I dont' think the current incarnation of what the Avengers are would allow for franchising.

[Neolucifer]

laudable wish , but i doubt pregrine could ever be something hot . And i now its pessimistic but as a mini given the low sales it would be quickly cancelled and in limbo . Any time someone would want to try it again , an exec would say : been there , tried before , wont work .

A new serie with a completely new set of character would have more luck than a book of D-list

[mattbib]

I don't think a successful secondary Avengers title is unrealistic at all.

The only thing it'd need to succeed is for Bendis' definition of the Avengers to be more traditional (that doesn't mean getting rid of Spider-Man, Wolverine, Power Man, etc.). Then Marvel would need to support it with fan-drawing writer and artists.

If umpteen X-titles can sell then there's no reason two Avengers titles can't.

[Smarty Jones]

"I don't think a successful secondary Avengers title is unrealistic at all.

The only thing it'd need to succeed is for Bendis' definition of the Avengers to be more traditional (that doesn't mean getting rid of Spider-Man, Wolverine, Power Man, etc.). Then Marvel would need to support it with fan-drawing writer and artists."

I don't even think that has to happen. You simply could have Hank Pym and Janet van Dyne say that there is a team like The Avengers needed in Europe regardless, and as founding members they can form a unit that doesn't have to be connected to the U.S. team except in name.

If you look at the X-books, all three teams have different scopes. In fact, their functions are so different it makes you wonder which ones are not in the Marvel Universe (the teams rarely interact, even though they all stay in the same mansion).

I think the team I assembled would be a good idea of taking the traditional Avengers concept and transplanting it overseas. What is happening with the BendisVengers should be of no concern.

[Neolucifer]

My thougth exactly Smarty . All we need is a few old avengers characters . Janet , hank and maybe hawkeye if he is alive or returning . A book for old fans to feel at home , while NA fans can enjoy their show

[mattbib]

Good point. The EU could easily back their own Avengers, with no ties to any American counterpart...

But...when the Avengers were working under the auspices of the U.N., that was the perfect time to establish a European branch IMO. Backwhen Busiek was establishing that proactive team.

[Neolucifer]

About that matter i'm not sure the "new" team should care about such political issues . Ditching the whole sanctified by the gov or the UN might be the ONE thing to keep from NA . I dont see the UN with a pro active team , i dont see them active at all even :D . But hey thats just my opinion

[Smarty Jones]

The problem with the governmental ties is that it could be another toy for writers to use, and any stories involving government bureaucracy will drag down a book. The U.S. ties to The Avengers and Department H's role in Alpha Flight are perfect examples. I would not mind an EU angle to this group of Avengers as long as it does not become the focal point of stories.

[Jessica Drew]

OR...Marvel could just start a team of (some old, some new) Avengers, station them somewhere on America's west coast, and then....

[Catalyst]

I agree with Smarty. It'd definitely need to be comprised of local or relocated first stringers.

There are plenty of powerful European characters, plus previous Avengers who have relocated or could relocate to the UK.

Hank and Jan are in the UK, as is Captain Britain II. Black Knight is British. Hercules has greco-roman origins. Sersi and the other Eternals on Mt. Olympia are in that region. Thor has Norse origins. Pull in a few lesser-known heroes, like Vormund, and you have a respectable Avengers franchise.

Sadly, though, I dont' think the current incarnation of what the Avengers are would allow for franchising.


Dane Whitman is not british. he's from Massachusets.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

So if we are basically gonna have an Avengers book for those who keep saying that the Bendis book isn't "the true Avengers", there's no need to set it in Europe.
Just make a book called Avengers:StrikeForce or AVENGERS:Force One or some crap like,use the Avengers that Bendis so terribly "raped" and that's it.

If we are gonna have an Avengers Europe, we should have mostly European heroes...and give them a platform to shine.
No character can become "A-List" until it makes its mark, and the way to do it is by having a showcase to make your mark.

[mattbib]

Dane Whitman is not british. he's from Massachusets.Whoops...I meant he has British roots.

[meethraa]

Great, so we're going to have a prudish anglo-centric team that's really no different from the American version, battling nothing of any importance because there isn't a writer in the world who dares have the title set in anything other than Britain.

If they do venture outside and abroad, they'll encounter rustic villages that haven't discovered electricity yet and seem to have been plucked out of Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. And that's just Germany.

Other than that, there is no Europe in the eyes of the American public. England, Germany, and France, with England being just like America only with a different accent and the occaisonal cliff-side scenery.
Germany will be some freakish country that resembles no modern country on earth.
France exists out of Paris, Paris, and then some more Paris.


Pretty much the problem I see with something like this. Making a European team with just an american audience in mind would most likely result in something unreadable for someone who actually lives in Europe.

I'd love to see a strong creative team using a couple of A-list characters and creating the rest of the rooter with characters from all over Europe (but not stupid walking stereotypes like Batroc or such).
It would really just have to be something interesting like Runaways, which didn't need popular characters to succeed, and the same kind of action we see in every other MU title, only taking place in Europe...

[Will.S]

I would be happy with a European team of Avengers. But instead of taking some unknown or marginal characters, you simply could take some existing Avengers and established characters and create a unit. For instance:

Hank Pym and The Wasp: Since they're in England already, the founding members would be logical leaders and advisers to this European branch.

Black Widow: A former team leader and international spy, Natasha would look at this as a second chance to redeem herself as leader (The Avengers disbanded under her tenure in the "Heroes Reborn" era).

Union Jack: It's just a formality before "The New Invaders" book folds, and I like the current person to wear the uniform. Think of him as an unpolished Captain America.

Captain Brittain II: It makes sense she would come along, considering her creation happened during The Avengers' run-in with The Wrecking Crew.

The Black Knight: A perfect first story would be with the team settling the score with The Bloodwraith -- and the fight for Dane Whitman's Ebony Blade.

Quicksilver: He may feel a bit of redemption for what happened with his sister. But there also will be tension between Pietro and Whitman over The Black Knight's dalliance with Crystal.

Ikaris: Arguably the most Earth-bound Eternal, Ikaris has spent a good portion of his life in Europe and would give the team a much-needed power boost.

If anything, this group of Avengers could have some powerful enemies: Count Nefaria and Morgana Le Fey have been mentioned, but then there is Mister Sinister, Exodus and Vargas of The X-Men fame, Batroc, Viper, The High Evolutionary and a certain ruler of Latveria.
That's the best team formation I've seen for a European Avengers team.

Well done.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

Pretty much the problem I see with something like this. Making a European team with just an american audience in mind would most likely result in something unreadable for someone who actually lives in Europe.



BINGO! :)

Absolutely true!

[Catalyst]

Whoops...I meant he has British roots.


so does Captain America. :)

[thetechnocrat]

I think this would be great. I see it as an international army of post humans ready for anything that could be thrown their way.
Team:
Captain Britain (England) - Leader
Black Knight (England) - Field Commander
Meggan (England)
Spitfire (England)
Union Jack (England)
Le Peregrine (France)
The Thin Man (France) - Team Scientist
Blitzkrieger (Germany)
Hauptmann Deutschland (Germany)
Nightcrawler (Germany)
Banshee (Ireland)
Siryn (Ireland)
Shamrock (Ireland) - Team Good Luck Charm

If they allowed Russian members, I'd throw in:
Vostok
Crimson Dynamo
Perun

[Catalyst]

i'm beginning to think that we need all new characters from overseas (non-US) and maybe throw Kelsey Leigh in there for the link. i'm really not sure what everyone has against Le Peregrine. there's nothing stereotypical about his name or appearance.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

I like Le Peregrine.
I think you are right,Catalyst.
Since the American Avengers pretty much face any villain that threatens this hemisphere, maybe this potential new team should be from all over that hemisphere, with characters from India, Africa, Japan AND the UK, not just Europe...

[mattbib]

so does Captain America. :)But doesn't Dane still have a castle over there? Potential base I guess...

[mattbib]

and using Ikarus would just confuse x-readers who are used to Icarus being a New Mutant and Cannonball's brother.Using Ikaris would no more confuse readers than the new Icarus has confused readers used to the Eternal.

[Smarty Jones]

"Using Ikaris would no more confuse readers than the new Icarus has confused readers used to the Eternal."

Just like using The Sentry in "New Avengers" would no more confuse readers used to the large robots employed by the Kree.

[Catalyst]

Using Ikaris would no more confuse readers than the new Icarus has confused readers used to the Eternal.


you must have missed the thread about Prodigy.

[Catalyst]

I like Le Peregrine.
I think you are right,Catalyst.
Since the American Avengers pretty much face any villain that threatens this hemisphere, maybe this potential new team should be from all over that hemisphere, with characters from India, Africa, Japan AND the UK, not just Europe...


that could work. i'd read it if there was a character i could follow.

[Catalyst]

But doesn't Dane still have a castle over there? Potential base I guess...

his neighbor owns the castle. had to take it over when Dane was turned to stone.

[Smarty Jones]

"Maybe that's why this will probably never happen...Marvel is too much into thinking that America is the only market for comics..."

There are quite a few superheroes with European ties named -- I named Union Jack, Black Knight, Captain Britain II, Quicksilver and Ikaris, for starters -- so it's not like there aren't such characters. I think you're upset that Hank Pym and The Wasp were named as the ones forming the group, per the creator of this thread's initial post.

You're going to need some connection to The Avengers if you're going to call this team a European swing of the unit. Considering Pym and The Wasp are founding members who now are in England, it's reasonable they would be asked to form a unit.

The other danger is using a group of low-level characters who are blank slates calling themselves The Avengers. Really, why would I read a book featuring Shamrock and Le Peregrine? There is no connection at all, which would undermine the book before it starts. I would have guys like Pym, The Wasp, Quicksilver, Union Jack and another established character like Black Widow, a Russian spy who has had dealings in Europe.

[mastaflan]

I'd have Warren Ellis write it and have Hairsine Draw it and call it something else instead of Avengers. Maybe the Alliance

And I would have

Darkstar
Peter Wisdom
Black Widow
Shamrock
Cyclone
Captain Britain
Hercules
Banshee

[Smarty Jones]

"You don't really need a "European Avengers" since the Avengers are already worldwide. If you were to do a European superteam,I wouldn't calle them Avengers. Besides,do you do one team for each country in Europe? You've got Excalibur for Britain. The Invaders have some Brits on the team."

I guess you haven't seen a book on The Avengers lately. Also, Exalibur broke up some time ago (with three of its core members going back to The X-Men and Captain Britain and Meggan becoming Protectors of the Omniverse). I believe the consensus is The Invaders' book thankfully will be discontinued.

[Catalyst]

You don't really need a "European Avengers" since the Avengers are already worldwide. If you were to do a European superteam,I wouldn't calle them Avengers. Besides,do you do one team for each country in Europe? You've got Excalibur for Britain. The Invaders have some Brits on the team.

not too many good team names left, really. i'd suggest 'Defenders' but they're taken. but, yeah, ideally they wouldn't need the Avengers name. but there should probaby be a team from the continent of Europe that has a mix of characters instead of just from one particular country; like France. afterall the Avengers aren't all from New York.

[Loki]

Captain Britain (England) - Leader
Black Knight (England) - Field Commander
Meggan (England)
Spitfire (England)
Union Jack (England)

You can say Spitfire and Meggan represent England all you like. Both are English by birth, However, though Brian Braddock and Joey Chapman were both born in England, by their very names they cannot represent England - Brian has to represent Britain at the minimum, and Union Jack has to represent the United Kingdom. I am really tired of having to explain to Americans that the three are not identical and interchangeable.

Blitzkrieger (Germany)
He's currently dead.

[Catalyst]

You can say Spitfire and Meggan represent England all you like. Both are English by birth, However, though Brian Braddock and Joey Chapman were both born in England, by their very names they cannot represent England - Brian has to represent Britain at the minimum, and Union Jack has to represent the United Kingdom. I am really tired of having to explain to Americans that the three are not identical and interchangeable.


He's currently dead.


you're right of course but who says they have to 'represent' anything? why can't some heroes who just happen to be from Europe team up? it's not like Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver represent Transia or wherever they grew up. and there could always be a new Blitzkrieg, although i'd suggest a new name. i call my version of the character Bolt-Thrower after a metal band i like.

[meethraa]

So, comic book readers are no longer able to read something with new characters? I don't buy that. It could be done with a solid creative team.

[Smarty Jones]

"not too many good team names left, really. i'd suggest 'Defenders' but they're taken. but, yeah, ideally they wouldn't need the Avengers name. but there should probaby be a team from the continent of Europe that has a mix of characters instead of just from one particular country; like France. afterall the Avengers aren't all from New York."

You're missing the point of this thread: The Avengers are starting a branch in Europe. It's not a case of some European outfit trying to become a team a la The Avengers.

[Catalyst]

You're missing the point of this thread: The Avengers are starting a branch in Europe. It's not a case of some European outfit trying to become a team a la The Avengers.

i'm just not a fan of staying within the lines. i think it's kind of backwards to have the rest of the world copy the Avengers as if the US created the concept of heroes. if all we're doing is moving some Avengers to England, then this is nothing more than a 'dream lineup' post w/ the condition that they have to live outside of the U.S. if that's what is wanted, here...

Captain America
Iron Man
Giant-Man
Wasp
Vision
Scarlet Witch
Hawkeye

& look; they're in jolly ole England!

[Smarty Jones]

"i'm just not a fan of staying within the lines. i think it's kind of backwards to have the rest of the world copy the Avengers as if the US created the concept of heroes."

The idea is to take the concept of The Avengers and put in European-based characters. The team still will be called The Avengers, which is part of brand identification.

[Jake V]

Wern't the Avengers always an international outfit? Why wouldn't they be setting up branches all over the world?

An European Union avengers wouldn't be a bad idea, but it's doubtful it'll happen any time this year. Over in the Ultimates, a European super-team is already being formed, and I doubt that Marvel would want to give the impression that they're copying Ultimate ideas for the regular Marvel Universe.

[Catalyst]

Wern't the Avengers always an international outfit? Why wouldn't they be setting up branches all over the world?

An European Union avengers wouldn't be a bad idea, but it's doubtful it'll happen any time this year. Over in the Ultimates, a European super-team is already being formed, and I doubt that Marvel would want to give the impression that they're copying Ultimate ideas for the regular Marvel Universe.


hah. that's rich. the impression that the regular marvel universe is copying *them.* anyways, the thread is basically just asking us to shoehorn european heroes into an existing Avengers team and base them outside of the US. the Avengers were an american outfit who had govt clearance to enter other countries. they didn't need a branch. me, i'd rather just have a team full of european heroes separate from the Avengers. that's not to say that i wouldn't want to see individual avengers adventuring somewhere besides the U.S. i think Moon Knight should operate out of Europe or the Middle East for instance.

[meethraa]

Just so everyone's on the same page, what is the Avengers' concept?

[protege]

After talk about a Marvel international line and talk about a team or Avengers based in Europe. I thought I'd do some research.


Basically, the idea would be that a team of mainly European Avengers would be set up by the EU to battle the Villians located in Europe and keep an eye on Latveria.

This EU setup team woudl start off by them Asking Hank Pym and Jan, who are supposed to currently be working at Cambridge, in England, to help set up an Avengers style organisation.

They go off a recruite heroes from around Europe, these could include:

Any of the numberous heroes from Britiain, Captain Britain (Kelsey), Pete Wisdom and many others
Peregine (From France)
Vormund (from Germany)
Siryn (from Ireland)
Sabra (from Isreal)
Hercules (Greek Demi-god)
Infact any Norse or Greek that want to lend a hand.


They'd then battle such villians as Count Neferia or Morgan le Faye, any number of new Europe based enemies, including keeping an eye of Doom and Latveria.

What do you think? Adding, if X-men can have 3 books, why can't Avengers have 2? (not counting GLA)
Who's Vormund? But i like the idea of JL..er.. Avengers Europe..

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

So, comic book readers are no longer able to read something with new characters? I don't buy that. It could be done with a solid creative team.

THANKS very much!
I would rather buy a solidly written team book about a collection of both new and old characters (yep, even of D-listers) than another book with the same ole suspects like Hawkeye,Tigra, Wanda, et al...

[protege]

Double Bingo!

Maybe that's why this will probably never happen...Marvel is too much into thinking that America is the only market for comics...
What about spider man; india?

[protege]

I think this would be great. I see it as an international army of post humans ready for anything that could be thrown their way.
Team:
Captain Britain (England) - Leader
Black Knight (England) - Field Commander
Meggan (England)
Spitfire (England)
Union Jack (England)
Le Peregrine (France)
The Thin Man (France) - Team Scientist
Blitzkrieger (Germany)
Hauptmann Deutschland (Germany)
Nightcrawler (Germany)
Banshee (Ireland)
Siryn (Ireland)
Shamrock (Ireland) - Team Good Luck Charm

If they allowed Russian members, I'd throw in:
Vostok
Crimson Dynamo
Perun
Blitzkreiger! that's who i forgot! I want to see him again! but, I think the team is a little too top heavy with the british contingent.

[Catalyst]

Blitzkreiger! that's who i forgot! I want to see him again! but, I think the team is a little too top heavy with the british contingent.

yeah, because there are characters stuffed in there who really don't fit. if you read what's going on with Thin Man in Invaders, there's no way he would involve himself with this team. he's used to operating on a much larger scale and seems to have developed a taste for killing. if the team needs a scientist, i'd suggest making Blitzkrieg one. since it would have to be a new Blitzkrieg, his/her backstory is wide open. Meggan doesn't, technically, have to be part of the team to be present. she's Brian's queen. powerwise, she'd be useful but not necessary. and would it be wise to have two captains on the team? i'd ditch Hauptman Deutschland and just have him be an independet operator in Germany. they could send Blitz as a representative since he's more expendable. i'm a bit confused as to why people keep throwing Banshee and Siryn into the team. Banshee had his vocal chords cut and was heading up an X-Corp team last we saw him. his mind isn't the right place to be some colorful representative of Ireland, imo. he'd most likely be seen as a mutant outlaw; doubly for Siryn given her dealings with X-Force (a mercenary unit). but, if i had to choose one, it'd be Siryn since she's not a leader; no competition experience-wise for Captain Britain. of course, personality-wise, she's identical to shamrock and a they both have dark reddish hair. still, the team is huge. how would anyone write all of those characters? it'd be a little less huge if we stuck with one character from each region. Captain Britain could be on the same team as Union Jack because they represent different people. Dane could be there because he's not british. he's an american. there's no reason to have two irish heroes. there's no reason to have two german heroes; especially a *very* x-related one on the team. but Nightcrawler's cool, so maybe it's Blitzkrieger who needs to go. with one of them gone, it'd make room for a russian hero. Crimson Dynamo has the most personality out of the 3 you listed. Perun is interesting but would come off as little more than a Thor wannabe and he doesn't have a cool armored flying suit. anyways, this is all my opinion.

Captain Britain (England) - Leader
Black Knight (England) - Field Commander
Union Jack (England)
Le Peregrine (France)
Blitzkrieger (Germany)
Shamrock (Ireland) - Team Good Luck Charm
Crimson Dynamo

and i'd throw in Sabra for another female with some actual icon potential

[Loki]

you're right of course but who says they have to 'represent' anything?

I didn't. The poster I was replying to put a list of countries next to the characters, not me. Anyone who wants to do that should know better than to list England next to CB or UJ.

[meethraa]

I'm sticking with the idea of having mostly new characters BUT it just occurred to me, why not have Thor in it? You can't get more european than Thor.

[Loki]

Captain Britain (England) - Leader
Black Knight (England) - Field Commander
Union Jack (England)

And after asking me why they should be seen as representing any country, you go and do it yourself, and perpetuate the same mistake. You shouldn't list England as CB or UJ's country - the very fact of the names they have taken means they do not stand for England.

[Catalyst]

And after asking me why they should be seen as representing any country, you go and do it yourself, and perpetuate the same mistake. You shouldn't list England as CB or UJ's country - the very fact of the names they have taken means they do not stand for England.


reread my post.


"all of those characters? it'd be a little less huge if we stuck with one character from each region. Captain Britain could be on the same team as Union Jack because they represent different people. Dane could be there because he's not british. he's an american. there's no reason to have two irish heroes."

the categories belonged to the poster i was replying to.

[Smarty Jones]

"I would rather buy a solidly written team book about a collection of both new and old characters (yep, even of D-listers) than another book with the same ole suspects like Hawkeye,Tigra, Wanda, et al..."

I don't recall anyone listing Hawkeye, Tigra or The Scarlet Witch for a European Avengers branch. You're reading something that isn't there.

[Catalyst]

I don't recall anyone listing Hawkeye, Tigra or The Scarlet Witch for a European Avengers branch. You're reading something that isn't there.

you listed Quicksilver and the intial poster included Hank and Jan. what's the difference?

[Smarty Jones]

"you listed Quicksilver and the intial poster included Hank and Jan. what's the difference?"

Last I looked, this thread was about starting a European branch of The Avengers. Quicksilver is from Transia (which I'm led to believe is a European nation) and Hank Pym and The Wasp now live in England.

The creator of this thread started with a hypothetical question of Pym and The Wasp being asked to start a European leg of The Avengers. To me, it makes sense considering these two helped found The Avengers and would be good consultants on the issue.

I don't remember anyone mentioning Tigra for membership. No one even mentioned The Scarlet Witch, in no small part because of her mental state. One person mentioned Hawkeye -- and that was IF he was still alive. The premise was to take characters with European roots and start an Avengers squad, which means to a lot of people also including Avengers with such roots.

If you want to start a thread about a team of obscure European superheroes, go right ahead.

[Catalyst]

Last I looked, this thread was about starting a European branch of The Avengers. Quicksilver is from Transia (which I'm led to believe is a European nation) and Hank Pym and The Wasp now live in England.

whoop dee doo. so is Scarlet Witch.

The creator of this thread started with a hypothetical question of Pym and The Wasp being asked to start a European leg of The Avengers. To me, it makes sense considering these two helped found The Avengers and would be good consultants on the issue.


yeah, but you had them *leading* the team.


I don't remember anyone mentioning Tigra for membership. No one even mentioned The Scarlet Witch, in no small part because of her mental state. One person mentioned Hawkeye -- and that was IF he was still alive. The premise was to take characters with European roots and start an Avengers squad, which means to a lot of people also including Avengers with such roots.

i mentioned Scarlet Witch and Hawkeye.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

This is gonna be such a flop.....

I´m not even gonna address the issue of the image that most US readers (trarget audience) has of europe; people still walking on horses and peasants making way for their noble rulers while dragons swarm by in the horizon sky.

I wanna talk about this strange concept of "europe".
There is no "Europe", it´s just a bunch of geezards who banded trogether to better defend their own petty interests.
There is no european identity, just a couple dozen people trying to pull the rope to their side.

Say they get Captain Britain as leader.
That automatically means the rest of europe arguing why England and not their respective representative gets to lead.
Say they get Sabra into the team.
Automatically, thousands of french and other readers start crying about not wanting a israeli in the team due to the israeli-palestinian conflict.
Say Captain France starts dating Ubermadchen or sleeping with Dutch Girl.
Automatically, the cries of thousands of german or dutch readers rise in the air.

Bickering, bickering, bickering.
On and on and on.

[Catalyst]

This is gonna be such a flop.....

I´m not even gonna address the issue of the image that most US readers (trarget audience) has of europe; people still walking on horses and peasants making way for their noble rulers while dragons swarm by in the horizon sky.

I wanna talk about this strange concept of "europe".
There is no "Europe", it´s just a bunch of geezards who banded trogether to better defend their own petty interests.
There is no european identity, just a couple dozen people trying to pull the rope to their side.

Say they get Captain Britain as leader.
That automatically means the rest of europe arguing why England and not their respective representative gets to lead.
Say they get Sabra into the team.
Automatically, thousands of french and other readers start crying about not wanting a israeli in the team due to the israeli-palestinian conflict.
Say Captain France starts dating Ubermadchen or sleeping with Dutch Girl.
Automatically, the cries of thousands of german or dutch readers rise in the air.

Bickering, bickering, bickering.
On and on and on.


that's the fun of it. the heroes should be above all that. they could serve as an example of true heroism; one not coloured by ethnocentricism.

[Smarty Jones]

Oh, the horror of having Hank Pym and The Wasp help form a European branch of The Avengers!

So what's the problem of having them lead an Avengers team? THEY HELPED FOUND THE AVENGERS! It makes sense that if a government agency like the EU wanted to found a team, Pym and The Wasp would be asked to create and lead such a team initially -- especially since they live in England.

I would rather have The Wasp lead a team called The Avengers than Captain Britain II -- whose entire superhero experience consists of getting pasted by She-Hulk in "Avengers: Disassembled" and prior to becoming Captain Britain was getting killed by Thunderball. Pym certainly brings to the table more than Le Peregrine -- a fourth-rate hero who is a poor knockoff of Nighthawk.

I didn't criticize your team, even though it was filled with characters such as Vormund and Shamrock. Unlike you, I don't knock your ideas. But I will say I'm not going to be interested in reading a book with The Avengers stamp on it and it's featuring characters rarely seen since "Contest of Champions I."

You can say what you want, but you're trying to put together a team related to The Avengers; the fact you've posted several rosters state you're not making much sense.

[protege]

yeah, because there are characters stuffed in there who really don't fit. if you read what's going on with Thin Man in Invaders, there's no way he would involve himself with this team. he's used to operating on a much larger scale and seems to have developed a taste for killing. if the team needs a scientist, i'd suggest making Blitzkrieg one. since it would have to be a new Blitzkrieg, his/her backstory is wide open. Meggan doesn't, technically, have to be part of the team to be present. she's Brian's queen. powerwise, she'd be useful but not necessary. and would it be wise to have two captains on the team? i'd ditch Hauptman Deutschland and just have him be an independet operator in Germany. they could send Blitz as a representative since he's more expendable. i'm a bit confused as to why people keep throwing Banshee and Siryn into the team. Banshee had his vocal chords cut and was heading up an X-Corp team last we saw him. his mind isn't the right place to be some colorful representative of Ireland, imo. he'd most likely be seen as a mutant outlaw; doubly for Siryn given her dealings with X-Force (a mercenary unit). but, if i had to choose one, it'd be Siryn since she's not a leader; no competition experience-wise for Captain Britain. of course, personality-wise, she's identical to shamrock and a they both have dark reddish hair. still, the team is huge. how would anyone write all of those characters? it'd be a little less huge if we stuck with one character from each region. Captain Britain could be on the same team as Union Jack because they represent different people. Dane could be there because he's not british. he's an american. there's no reason to have two irish heroes. there's no reason to have two german heroes; especially a *very* x-related one on the team. but Nightcrawler's cool, so maybe it's Blitzkrieger who needs to go. with one of them gone, it'd make room for a russian hero. Crimson Dynamo has the most personality out of the 3 you listed. Perun is interesting but would come off as little more than a Thor wannabe and he doesn't have a cool armored flying suit. anyways, this is all my opinion.

Captain Britain (England) - Leader
Black Knight (England) - Field Commander
Union Jack (England)
Le Peregrine (France)
Blitzkrieger (Germany)
Shamrock (Ireland) - Team Good Luck Charm
Crimson Dynamo

and i'd throw in Sabra for another female with some actual icon potential
So you're saying he'd be spreading himself a bit thin? :)

[Neolucifer]

Pretty much the problem I see with something like this. Making a European team with just an american audience in mind would most likely result in something unreadable for someone who actually lives in Europe.

I guess i should have disagree then with the idea or read it better. I was more thinking about a team based in Europe , not an european only team . I mean i could care less if they were based in Jamaica ...
I was thinking about a team exactly like the avengers of old (not in members but in spirits , and story-telling) for the audience that liked Avengers and dislike NA .

so a team of european heroes led by american leaders? not too condescending right?
When it comes down to comics i hardly care about getting someone in the team to represent my country (i'm not a us citizen , and i'm euro) . And i'd find far more condescending to give a less skilled , powerful , interesting or popular character the role of leader for the unique reason of being european .
I dont wanna see Batroc the Leaper simply because they had quotas of french people to fill :D

[Smarty Jones]

"I guess i should have disagree then with the idea . I was more thinking about a team based in Europe , not an european only team."

That was my impression, too. The Avengers would set up shop in Europe and would bring in characters with European connections.

"When it comes down to comics i hardly care about getting someone in the team to represent my country (i'm not a us citizen , and i'm euro). And i'd find far more condescending to give a less skilled , powerful , interesting or popular character the role of leader for the unique reason of being european."

Catalyst jumped the shark on Hank Pym and The Wasp. Given the premise by the originator of this thread, I can't see how these two would not be asked to found another team of Avengers. They both live in Europe and they founded the concept. Who better to create such a group?

And I'm like you. I would rather read about a European Avengers team with Quicksilver, The Black Knight, Hercules, etc. than Shamrock, Le Peregrine and Vormund.

[Catalyst]

So you're saying he'd be spreading himself a bit thin? :)

no. i'd never make a horrible pun like that. ;)

[Catalyst]

Oh, the horror of having Hank Pym and The Wasp help form a European branch of The Avengers!

So what's the problem of having them lead an Avengers team? THEY HELPED FOUND THE AVENGERS! It makes sense that if a government agency like the EU wanted to found a team, Pym and The Wasp would be asked to create and lead such a team initially -- especially since they live in England.

I would rather have The Wasp lead a team called The Avengers than Captain Britain II -- whose entire superhero experience consists of getting pasted by She-Hulk in "Avengers: Disassembled" and prior to becoming Captain Britain was getting killed by Thunderball. Pym certainly brings to the table more than Le Peregrine -- a fourth-rate hero who is a poor knockoff of Nighthawk.

I didn't criticize your team, even though it was filled with characters such as Vormund and Shamrock. Unlike you, I don't knock your ideas. But I will say I'm not going to be interested in reading a book with The Avengers stamp on it and it's featuring characters rarely seen since "Contest of Champions I."

You can say what you want, but you're trying to put together a team related to The Avengers; the fact you've posted several rosters state you're not making much sense.


who are you talking to?

[Catalyst]

I guess i should have disagree then with the idea or read it better. I was more thinking about a team based in Europe , not an european only team . I mean i could care less if they were based in Jamaica ...
I was thinking about a team exactly like the avengers of old (not in members but in spirits , and story-telling) for the audience that liked Avengers and dislike NA .


When it comes down to comics i hardly care about getting someone in the team to represent my country (i'm not a us citizen , and i'm euro) . And i'd find far more condescending to give a less skilled , powerful , interesting or popular character the role of leader for the unique reason of being european .
I dont wanna see Batroc the Leaper simply because they had quotas of french people to fill :D

you consider Brian Braddock to be less skilled, powerful, and interesting than Hank Pym then? and i'm pretty sure that no one nominated Batroc for membership.

[Smarty Jones]

"you consider Brian Braddock to be less skilled, powerful, and interesting than Hank Pym then?"

Simply put, I associate Hank Pym with The Avengers, not The Protector of the Omniverse. If you were to ask me to pick a character to create a European leg of The Avengers, Pym would be the choice. Not to mention Brian Braddock is something more the lines of a higher order being than a superhero.

Will you put up a definitive list of your European Avengers? I don't have a feel for who you want on your team. You've jumped around several times.

[Catalyst]

Simply put, I associate Hank Pym with The Avengers, not The Protector of the Omniverse. If you were to ask me to pick a character to create a European leg of The Avengers, Pym would be the choice. Not to mention Brian Braddock is something more the lines of a higher order being than a superhero.

Will you put up a definitive list of your European Avengers? I don't have a feel for you want on your team. You've jumped around several times.

i was asking the european guy.

[protege]

no. i'd never make a horrible pun like that. ;)
Well, i would. and i'd like to read about a team with both established, and European heroes.

[Smarty Jones]

"i was asking the european guy."

And I am asking you to name your definitive European Avengers list. You've jumped around several times with roster ideas.

[Neolucifer]

you consider Brian Braddock to be less skilled, powerful, and interesting than Hank Pym then? and i'm pretty sure that no one nominated Batroc for membership.

When did i ever talk about Brian ??? look well i replied to the " so a team of european heroes led by american leaders? not too condescending right?"

I'm saying that i dont even understand the need to get a leader of the "right" nationality , or nationality as a main criteria . Imo it could be even more condescending , and almost like throwing us bones :D

With that kind of approach french people could get batroc (its more a silly ex than something to take seriously you know :D ) given the poor and limited choice of french super beings , if the writer wanted at all cost a french leader or member

[Catalyst]

Will you put up a definitive list of your European Avengers? I don't have a feel for you want on your team. You've jumped around several times.

a powerful evil threatens to consume the entire continent. several heroes join together, put aside cultural differences, and pool their collective might to vanquish it...

Britannic - Brian (now King) Braddock; former costumed hero and ruler of otherworld; forced into battle when an ancient evil escaped from his realm into ours. Braddock quickly appointed a fellow britain corp as a stand-in and headed to earth-realm. donning his original costume, Braddock aids the Avengers with mystically-enhanced strength, magic staff, and various other left over abilities from his time as King of Otherworld. Brian's true gift is his charisma and ability to rally others. and his weakness an arrogance that has him assuming that his teammates will naturally follow his lead.

Sunfire - Shiro Yoshida the pride of Japan capable of generating nuclear flame. Shiro has overcome a lot in his life from the lost of a parent, teammates, and developing cancer. despite all of that, he has never hesitated to serve the world as a hero. but was a social life sacrificed in the process and what affect would that have on the hero?

Black Panther - T'challa, master strategist, scientist, and King of wakanda possessed of enhanced senses and athleticism. T'challa, despite his Avengers status, will not be welcomed into this team with open arms. his acts of agression on behalf of Wakanda have not gone unnoticed in the global arena.

Crimson Dynamo - Dmitri Bukharin; a retired soviet spy and bar owner with a very large - very powerful armored flight suit. his age has made him cranky but no less a warrior and hero. he also makes great mixed drinks and tells dirty jokes that few people get.

Le Peregrine - Alaine Racine; a winged mercenary from France and part-time novelist with little tolerance for failure from himself or his teammates. his perfectionist streak stems from a past personal failure in his life that resulted in the death of a woman he considered his soul mate.

Sabra - Ruth Bat-Seraph; former member of Israeli's mossad who devoted her mutant talents to her country after her son was killed in a terrorist bombing. possessed of superstrength, speed, resilience to injury, and technology-assisted flight; as well as a very prickly/secretive personality.

Arabian Knight -[unnamed] a cocky young soldier who found a magic sword and sash once worn by the saudi superhero of the same name. this threat will teach the Knight that with great power comes great responsibility. the Knight's sword, carpet, and sash respond to his mental commands & would automatically defend him should he be seriously injured or rendered unconscious. unlike his predecessor, AK wears no turban or facial hair. he's recently experienced his first election.

Stromschlagger -[unnamed] a naive young mutant with volt-casting abilities and a love of heavy metal music. he agrees to help the others after his friends are slain. Stromschlagger generally uses his powers to move at super speed but is also becoming quite accurate at throwing bolts of electricity.


no official leader. a lot of them have their own agenda. T'challa does his share of manipulating.

writer: Grant Morrison
artist: John Cassaday

[Neolucifer]

Dear lord you use Arabian Knight and Black Panther !!! your team must happen :D

[mastaflan]

a powerful evil threatens to consume the entire continent. several heroes join together, put aside cultural differences, and pool their collective might to vanquish it...

Britannic - former costumed hero and ruler of outworld; forced into battle when an ancient evil escaped from his realm into ours.

Sunfire - Shiro Yoshida the pride of Japan capable of generating nuclear flame

Black Panther - T'challa, master strategist, scientist, and King of wakanda possessed of enhanced senses and athleticism

Crimson Dynamo - Dmitri Bukharin; a retired soviet spy and bar owner with a very large - very powerful armored flight suit. his age has made him gruff but his heart is still that of a warrior and hero.

Le Peregrine - a winged mercenary from France and part-time novelist

Sabra - former member of Israeli's mossad who devoted her mutant talents to her country after her son was killed in a terrorist bombing. possessed of superstrength, speed, resilience to injury, and technology-assisted flight; as well as a very prickly/secretive personality.

Arabian Knight - a cocky young soldier who found a magic sword and sash once worn by the saudi superhero of the same name. this threat will teach the Knight that with great power comes great responsibility.

Stromschlagger - an idealic young mutant with volt-casting abilities and a love of heavy metal music. he agrees to help the others after his friends are slain.


no leader. a lot of them have their own agenda. T'challa does his share of manipulating.

I would have put flag smasher instead of Crimson Dynamo.

[Smarty Jones]

It's your team, Catalyst, but it doesn't seem like a European version of The Avengers -- in the term of the traditional superhero team -- as much as it sounds like a poor man's StormWatch or a U.N. version of The Defenders.

[Catalyst]

It's your team, Catalyst, but it doesn't seem like a European version of The Avengers -- in the term of the traditional superhero team -- as much as it sounds like a poor man's StormWatch or a U.N. version of The Defenders.


good thing i don't read Stormwatch or take criticism very seriously. they are the UN with superpowers; intentionally. you asked me for my team. this is it. they have enough stories between them to be more interesting than the main team of Avengers. each of them are colorful personalities. they are not a "european version" of the Avengers. the are the Avengers. the others are american versions of them. feh. just ask Crimson Dynamo. and what something "sounds" like and what it is are often very different.

[Catalyst]

I would have put flag smasher instead of Crimson Dynamo.


Flagsmasher's one of their villains and he can't mix drinks or smoke a cigar like Dmitri; the "wolverine" of my group.

[thorionthei]

With so many good Avengers being from Europe (Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Black Widow, Hercules, Sersi, Thor...off the top of my head) some others with european ties like the Black Knight...i say heck yeah!!!

But I just don't think the market will support it. You get a big name writer/artist (Millar/Dedato Jr) then I'm all over it. But for the most part I just don't think it would sell in today's market. A team of Black Widow, Quicksilver, Black Knight, Sersi, Hercules...does interest me.

[GoGo Yubari]

Do I smell AA - Avengers Antarctica?

Humbug...
The Walrus...
White Rabbit...
and the Enforcers (except Fancy Dan who has some fragment of sanity left somehow). The Avengers Antarctica. The only branch of the Avengers that even the GLA can crack up at.

[thik_3rd]

when did hank and jan go to the uk?

[The Fury]

and i'm pretty sure that no one nominated Batroc for membership.
Er..He's a bad guy.


when did hank and jan go to the uk?
At the end of Avengers Finale, Hank said that he was offered a job at Cambridge University. Jan went with him.



But I like the feed back on this, some great arguments (and on SuperBowl night).

Just to Clarify some things that Smarty Jones said himself, Jan And Hank would be approached to help set them up and could lea them because they were part of the Avengers, which was a world wide known organisation.

In a sense, if the Avengers disbanded, at any time, countries would become feearful as then noone is around to, well, save them. It would make sense that A very large organiastion such as the EU would try and set up their own (and I'm a little suprised they never did before).

Of course I would still question over the use of Brian Braddock as Cap B, unless his current status changes of course (he's a practically a god). But I do agree with many that the inclusion of Black Knight would be good, as said he has strong European ties, after all his uncle (Black Knight II) was British, and the Black Knight is a British legend.

Quicksilver is another very good option, he's not doing anything at the moment and has European roots. And the inclusion of any number of the Russia heroes would also be a good option.

[Smarty Jones]

"good thing i don't read Stormwatch or take criticism very seriously. they are the UN with superpowers; intentionally. you asked me for my team. this is it. they have enough stories between them to be more interesting than the main team of Avengers. each of them are colorful personalities. they are not a 'european version' of the Avengers. the are the Avengers."

No, it's nothing resembling The Avengers; it's just a team with the monicker that you called The Avengers. The only character you have with any relationship with The Avengers is Black Panther, who now works better as an individual character.

C'mon, Brian Braddock stepping down as demigod to play superhero? Sunfire has never been a team player. Crimson Dynamo? You whine about having Quicksilver on my team yet add a tired French version of The Falcon (Le Peregrine)? Sabra is decent, but not outstanding and certainly not a necessity.

[The Fury]

C'mon, Brian Braddock stepping down a demigod to play superhero? Sunfire has never been a team player. Crimson Dynamo? You whine about having Quicksilver on my team yet add a tired French version of The Falcon (Le Peregrine)? Sabra is decent, but not outstanding and certainly a necessity.
The only reason I sugeested Peregine in the first place wsa becuase I wanted a nice range of different coutnries in the team, as France weirdly have very few known heroes, then he was only one a a very few options.

I guess that a new better character could be created. But I do find it weird in general that there are very very few heroes in any other country aside from countries in North America. Even those from Europe and the rest of the world, hang out in the US. If they really wanted to take over the world without encountering heroes all the time the'd go to other parts of it.

Take it this way, during Casey's run on Uncanny X-men, he did that X-Corp story. In a mission the X-Corp members stopped a fight between 2 mutants in Germany. One of which was American, the other Genoshan. But where were the German heroes to stop the fight? And Even then this X-Corp team were mainly made up of character that re not from Europe, while it's base was in Paris.

This book would give writer to create a better range of heroes in these countries. I find it hard to belive that the US is the only place to have heroes on that scale.

Sorry went off on one there.

[Smarty Jones]

"I guess that a new better character could be created. But I do find it weird in general that there are very very few heroes in any other country aside from countries in North America. Even those from Europe and the rest of the world, hang out in the US. If they really wanted to take over the world without encountering heroes all the time the'd go to other parts of it."

It's an easy answer: Use this European version of The Avengers as an avenue to create new superheroes from other countries. Le Peregrine is pretty much a poor man's Falcon at best, and would not be considered Avengers-worthy material under any circumstances.

[Deathstroke]

Bad idea.

There's no need for all these spin off titles.

[Dizzy D]

I have mixed feelings on this: it could be good, but at the moment there are enough superhero titles around.

And as long as

a) they leave the horrible, horrible stereotype characters out of it (see just about everybody introduced in Contest of Champions (I mean a german superhero called Blitzkrieg, what's next, a japanese character called Kamikaze... wait that one also was done...)

b) If it is an European version of the Avengers, then make the characters European. Continent is big enough without shipping in characters from all over the world.

c) Have some characters with at least A-list level powers if not A-listers themselves.

People I would like to see in it:
Hercules (give him the hydra-arrows and go with the original myths to make him more than just a brick type character. No Hawkeye here, so he can wield a bow without moving into another character's field of expertise)
Quicksilver (please use his X-factor characterisation. And it's not as if he's used anywhere else at the moment)
Maybe some Marvel UK characters back from obscurity
And the rest all new characters.

[Graham Vingoe]

A horrible idea, which I can only see working if played for laughs, and even then, you would need to tread a very fine line in political correctness.I personally would not touch it with a bargepole

[Halofreak20]

It depends like if your talking Ultimetes than yes it is a good idea because they have Captain Britan and Captain Spain and Captain um forget his name.

But, if its in the regualr marvel universe then no because then there would be no hope of Captain Britan returning to the avengers.

[mastaflan]

It's your team, Catalyst, but it doesn't seem like a European version of The Avengers -- in the term of the traditional superhero team -- as much as it sounds like a poor man's StormWatch or a U.N. version of The Defenders.


Now thats just mean, The poor man's Stormwatch? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!
(I can see that Arabian Knight was probbably what promted you to say that) Stormwatch was a pretty poor team to begin with but atleast these Marvel Characters got more history then those fools. But yeah they are more international than Euro. You are right that a lot of these people aint exactly team players but it would be neat to see them in action. Especially an Updated Arabian Knight.

[The Fury]

But, if its in the regualr marvel universe then no because then there would be no hope of Captain Britan returning to the avengers.
It is in the MU, but don't just dismiss it becuase of the new Cap B, her place in Avengers was stupid anyway, how she ever expected to protect Britain while in the US I don't know, but if she was closer to home, then it might make more sense, she now has a duty to do and getting help would make it easier.

There's no need for all these spin off titles.
So, I take it you didn't like West Coast Avengers, then?



Here's another though, in the MU, the Avengers are no more, now as the 'World's Greatest Heroes' are no longer around, don't you think many countries would become fearful as there are no longer the Avengers to protect them. This may cause them to put together their own teams to protect them. The EU however may join together to establish a team to protect Europe.

And as I said new characters could be created, if others don't fit.

[berk]

I agree with the people who think it pretty much defeats the whole point if you propose a European team, Avengers-affiliated ot not, and then include a bunch of Americans like the Pyms, or thoroughly Americanised characters like the Black Widow, Quicksilver, or the Scarlet Witch. And what do Sabra (Israel) or the Black Panther (Wakanda, Africa) have to do with Europe? Nope, the only thing would be to create some new characters, there just aren't enough interesting Europeans around in the MU. The most compelling European character that comes to mind is Dr. Doom, a villain (coincidence? hmmmm...). And if we're waiting for MArvel to create some interesting new characters, as opposed to putting out endless variations on existing ones, I think we'll be waiting a long time.

[protege]

No, it's nothing resembling The Avengers; it's just a team with the monicker that you called The Avengers. The only character you have with any relationship with The Avengers is Black Panther, who now works better as an individual character.

C'mon, Brian Braddock stepping down a demigod to play superhero? Sunfire has never been a team player. Crimson Dynamo? You whine about having Quicksilver on my team yet add a tired French version of The Falcon (Le Peregrine)? Sabra is decent, but not outstanding and certainly not a necessity.
Interesting point about Sunfire; I'd love to see him on an Xteam, on a regular basis, but the way he's written, he's better off on His own, and his present appearances aside, We hardly ever see him on an individual basis.Not many mutants can really stand on their own.

[Deathstroke]

So, I take it you didn't like West Coast Avengers, then?


Yes, back in the 80's when I didn't know any better. If I had known we were going to get endless variation of geographic Avengers titles I would never have bought WCA.

[Smarty Jones]

"Yes, back in the 80's when I didn't know any better. If I had known we were going to get endless variation of geographic Avengers titles I would never have bought WCA."

If that is the case, you must hate The X-Men with a passion.

[ghostrider666]

Not that I dont think it'd be a bad idea, I just dont think it'd sell very well. It prob wouldnt be very well done either, Marvel would just throw some crap together.

[Deathstroke]

If that is the case, you must hate The X-Men with a passion.

Pretty much.

I only read Academy X and Exiles.

[ChildOfTheDarkholde]

a powerful evil threatens to consume the entire continent. several heroes join together, put aside cultural differences, and pool their collective might to vanquish it...

Britannic - Brian (now King) Braddock; former costumed hero and ruler of otherworld; forced into battle when an ancient evil escaped from his realm into ours. Braddock quickly appointed a fellow britain corp as a stand-in and headed to earth-realm. donning his original costume, Braddock aids the Avengers with mystically-enhanced strength, magic staff, and various other left over abilities from his time as King of Otherworld. Brian's true gift is his charisma and ability to rally others. and his weakness an arrogance that has him assuming that his teammates will naturally follow his lead.

Sunfire - Shiro Yoshida the pride of Japan capable of generating nuclear flame. Shiro has overcome a lot in his life from the lost of a parent, teammates, and developing cancer. despite all of that, he has never hesitated to serve the world as a hero. but was a social life sacrificed in the process and what affect would that have on the hero?

Black Panther - T'challa, master strategist, scientist, and King of wakanda possessed of enhanced senses and athleticism. T'challa, despite his Avengers status, will not be welcomed into this team with open arms. his acts of agression on behalf of Wakanda have not gone unnoticed in the global arena.

Crimson Dynamo - Dmitri Bukharin; a retired soviet spy and bar owner with a very large - very powerful armored flight suit. his age has made him cranky but no less a warrior and hero. he also makes great mixed drinks and tells dirty jokes that few people get.

Le Peregrine - Alaine Racine; a winged mercenary from France and part-time novelist with little tolerance for failure from himself or his teammates. his perfectionist streak stems from a past personal failure in his life that resulted in the death of a woman he considered his soul mate.

Sabra - Ruth Bat-Seraph; former member of Israeli's mossad who devoted her mutant talents to her country after her son was killed in a terrorist bombing. possessed of superstrength, speed, resilience to injury, and technology-assisted flight; as well as a very prickly/secretive personality.

Arabian Knight -[unnamed] a cocky young soldier who found a magic sword and sash once worn by the saudi superhero of the same name. this threat will teach the Knight that with great power comes great responsibility. the Knight's sword, carpet, and sash respond to his mental commands & would automatically defend him should he be seriously injured or rendered unconscious. unlike his predecessor, AK wears no turban or facial hair. he's recently experienced his first election.

Stromschlagger -[unnamed] a naive young mutant with volt-casting abilities and a love of heavy metal music. he agrees to help the others after his friends are slain. Stromschlagger generally uses his powers to move at super speed but is also becoming quite accurate at throwing bolts of electricity.


no official leader. a lot of them have their own agenda. T'challa does his share of manipulating.

writer: Grant Morrison
artist: John Cassaday


LOVE IT, LOVE IT, LOVE IT!!!!
Great Team! (The only thing it needs to be perfect IMO is to have more female members,-*SHAMROCK*- but it's your team, and it rocks!)
It doesn't sound to me like a Poor Man's anything...it sounds like a kickass team that just happens to consist of characters that aren't used or not many people remember...but with that creative team you suggest it would rock...

[Neolucifer]

Well Morrison's name could make Howard the duck outsell x titles and Identity crisis so yes it could work :D

Except that we all know he works for the "enemy"

[mastaflan]

Well Morrison's name could make Howard the duck outsell x titles and Identity crisis so yes it could work :D

Except that we all know he works for the "enemy"


You trying to say that AOL comics is a bad thing?!! heheheheheh.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Hope you don´t take it personally, but I´m now gonna proceed to disbanding your team on the groudns of unplausibility:

a powerful evil threatens to consume the entire continent. several heroes join together, put aside cultural differences, and pool their collective might to vanquish it...

Britannic - Brian (now King) Braddock; former costumed hero and ruler of otherworld; forced into battle when an ancient evil escaped from his realm into ours. Braddock quickly appointed a fellow britain corp as a stand-in and headed to earth-realm. donning his original costume, Braddock aids the Avengers with mystically-enhanced strength, magic staff, and various other left over abilities from his time as King of Otherworld. Brian's true gift is his charisma and ability to rally others. and his weakness an arrogance that has him assuming that his teammates will naturally follow his lead.

About the only one I see participating in the team; he´s a well established european A-list uber .



Sunfire - Shiro Yoshida the pride of Japan capable of generating nuclear flame. Shiro has overcome a lot in his life from the lost of a parent, teammates, and developing cancer. despite all of that, he has never hesitated to serve the world as a hero. but was a social life sacrificed in the process and what affect would that have on the hero?

A japanese superhero in an european roster?

Black Panther - T'challa, master strategist, scientist, and King of wakanda possessed of enhanced senses and athleticism. T'challa, despite his Avengers status, will not be welcomed into this team with open arms. his acts of agression on behalf of Wakanda have not gone unnoticed in the global arena.


An african superhero (and leader) in an european roster?

Crimson Dynamo - Dmitri Bukharin; a retired soviet spy and bar owner with a very large - very powerful armored flight suit. his age has made him cranky but no less a warrior and hero. he also makes great mixed drinks and tells dirty jokes that few people get.

Same continent, but "Europe" doesn´t imply "Russia". Completelly different agendas and, considering that they are constantly at odds regarding the loyalty of satelite states like Ucrania and Bielorussia (eager to join the EU), I don´t see them cooperating anytime soon.

Le Peregrine - Alaine Racine; a winged mercenary from France and part-time novelist with little tolerance for failure from himself or his teammates. his perfectionist streak stems from a past personal failure in his life that resulted in the death of a woman he considered his soul mate.

A mercenary in a superhero team? I don´t think that´d be likely, with the loyalty question.

Sabra - Ruth Bat-Seraph; former member of Israeli's mossad who devoted her mutant talents to her country after her son was killed in a terrorist bombing. possessed of superstrength, speed, resilience to injury, and technology-assisted flight; as well as a very prickly/secretive personality.

I SO do not see this happening. Considering the israeli-palestinian conflict and the side that countries like France and Germany have the tendency to join and support or the rise of anti-semitism in europe, an israeli superheroine in the EU is something I consider VERY unlikely.

Arabian Knight -[unnamed] a cocky young soldier who found a magic sword and sash once worn by the saudi superhero of the same name. this threat will teach the Knight that with great power comes great responsibility. the Knight's sword, carpet, and sash respond to his mental commands & would automatically defend him should he be seriously injured or rendered unconscious. unlike his predecessor, AK wears no turban or facial hair. he's recently experienced his first election.

´Arabian´ Knight? Can anyone tell me what´s wrong with this picture?

[XPac]

With the Invaders bombing, I wonder why Marvel would think European Avengers would work any better. It's kinda the same thing, though not exactly.

[protege]

Hope you don´t take it personally, but I´m now gonna proceed to disbanding your team on the groudns of unplausibility:



About the only one I see participating in the team; he´s a well established european A-list uber .




A japanese superhero in an european roster?




An african superhero (and leader) in an european roster?



Same continent, but "Europe" doesn´t imply "Russia". Completelly different agendas and, considering that they are constantly at odds regarding the loyalty of satelite states like Ucrania and Bielorussia (eager to join the EU), I don´t see them cooperating anytime soon.



A mercenary in a superhero team? I don´t think that´d be likely, with the loyalty question.



I SO do not see this happening. Considering the israeli-palestinian conflict and the side that countries like France and Germany have the tendency to join and support or the rise of anti-semitism in europe, an israeli superheroine in the EU is something I consider VERY unlikely.



´Arabian´ Knight? Can anyone tell me what´s wrong with this picture?
Well, what would You call Him?

[Neolucifer]

er isnt it obvious from the list of people he included that he might not care about an EUROPEAN team but rather , like a few of us , an international team possibly based in Europe ?

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Well, what would You call Him?

It´s not about the name, it´s about the plausibility of such a character in an european roster. Europe is complex in its stories of love and hate and there are things that simply wouldn´t work right.
And a superhero called "Arabian Knight" doesn´t work in an european setting.
It´s like calling a portuguese mercenary "Edson Jarzinho" :rolleyes: or having a british heroine called "La Coquelicot Jolie".

Why is it that it doesn´t work?
Well, for instances.....
- It´s dumb. Sorry, but "Arabian Knight" follows the same 1970´s trend of naming every afro-american superhero Black Something. Black Panther, Black this, Black that.

- Saudi history. Anyone who´s into the geopolitics of middle east knows how the saudis (of all the people) just LOVE the western in general and europe in particular. And when I say love, it´s not like Osama Bin Laden was iraqi or something.....The idea of a saudi or someone using a saudi artifact to defend europe is so out there I don´t even have words to explain it

- There are actually many arabs in european countries like France (forgive my ignorance on the middle east, but like iranians are persians, I don´t know if algerians are in fact arabs). However, why do I don´t see it working? Imagine that you´re an arab kid living in France; the descrimination you have to undergo, the racism, the social exclusion, the criminality, all that. A guy like that who dons a cape to defend his country has to be either a Johnny Goody-Two-Shoes (I´d say boyscout, but the boyscouts are a christian institution) or someone with issues.
And considering the issue of the headscarfs that saw the limelights recently,if this Johnie Goodie-Two-Shoes WERE to actually wear the cape, he´d definitelly not call himself "Arabian Knight" since by doing that he would be rejecting the country he swore to protect.
It´s complex.
And I doubt many writers would be able to tackle the sensibilities involved.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

er isnt it obvious from the list of people he included that he might not care about an EUROPEAN team but rather , like a few of us , an international team possibly based in Europe ?


Let´s think about this for a sec.

Imagine that a threat has just emerged in the US.
To save the US, China decides to assemble a roster.
The get a superhero from Iran, one russian, two north koreans, one sudanese and one chinese.

They set camp in New York and they vow to protect the nation.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

See what I mean?

[Neolucifer]

It´s dumb. Sorry, but "Arabian Knight" follows the same 1970´s trend of naming every afro-american superhero Black Something. Black Panther, Black this, Black that.

So what he should remain in limbo for that reason ??

- Saudi history. Anyone who´s into the geopolitics of middle east knows how the saudis (of all the people) just LOVE the western in general and europe in particular. And when I say love, it´s not like Osama Bin Laden was iraqi or something.....The idea of a saudi or someone using a saudi artifact to defend europe is so out there I don´t even have words to explain it

Why should we follow politics that much ?? We arent talking about ultimates V2 or Ex machina , but a classic styles possible Avengers team , where they often only shown the current president's face and keep politics talk to its minimum .

Arabian Knight is much closer to a mythological or magical being than anything else . Even if he is of mortal essence and weaker call him the Arabian thor :D

[Neolucifer]

Let´s think about this for a sec.

Imagine that a threat has just emerged in the US.
To save the US, China decides to assemble a roster.
The get a superhero from Iran, one russian, two north koreans, one sudanese and one chinese.

They set camp in New York and they vow to protect the nation.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

See what I mean?

We are talking about a dude with a flying carpet and a magic belt ... in a world with imaginary european countries (Latveria etc) and transylvanian vampires among other things ...

See what i mean ?

[Eliseu Gouveia]

So what he should remain in limbo for that reason ??

Put him in the Fantastic Four or the X-Men, for all I care. I´m just providing some food for thought on why Arabian Knight in a EU team is awkward.

Why should we follow politics that much ?? We arent talking about ultimates V2 or Ex machina , but a classic styles possible Avengers team , where they often only shown the current president's face and keep politics talk to its minimum .

You mean you wanna talk europe without taking into consideration european sensitivities? It´s not about politics (well, to some extent it is), it´s about the very concept of europe. And superheroes in europe.



Arabian Knight is much closer to a mythological or magical being than anything else . Even if he is of mortal essence and weaker call him the Arabian thor :D

Thor is an european myth.
Djinns and flying carpets are not.

We are talking about a dude with a flying carpet and a magic belt ... in a world with imaginary european countries (Latveria etc) and transylvanian vampires among other things ...

See what i mean ?


I don´t think you quite follow me.
You forwarded the idea of an international team based in europe.
I forwarded the concept of an international superteam based in the US.
Heck, most american can´t even stand the fact that the UN building is in their soil, how would they stomach the idea of a north korean superhero suddenly landing in downtown Manhattan and shouting orders?
See what I mean?

[Jake V]

Seriously. These are comic books. While the likelihood of a real world Europe-based team is very slim, in the Marvel universe, politics and real world issues take a back seat to the superhero action.

Maybe I'd expect the issues Eliseu proposed to rear their heads in the Ultimate universe (I actually expect them to in the pages of the Ultimates with the European Union team) but they have no place in a comic book reality.

So, while the points you raised are all interesting and valid, they are ultimately irrelevant in the Marvel Universe.

[meethraa]

Marvel is probably not the best place to have a serious European based team anyway. At least not one that non-british european readers could identify with.
So I'm voting "bad idea".

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Serously. These are comic books. While the liklihood of a real world europe-based team is very slim, in the Marvel universe, politics and real world issues take a back seat to the superhero action.

I actually can see it happening.
There have been cases of europeans from different countries coming together for a common cause, be it music, human rights, arts or whatever.
They CAN actually sit together and do things.

It´s just a matter of figuring out what type of characters would do this.
Take Captain Britain, for instances.
We know that the large majority of the british are extremelly anti-europe, so, though I like the character, I think it would be a tough call.

If it´s an EU initiative, then expect plenty of politics thrown into the mix.
Germany would neve accept a french or british leader, the UK would want someone they all agree with but whose strings the Nº #10 would be able to control, Spain would despise any portuguese names thrown in, etc, etc.
Politics, politics, politics and more such petty interestes.


If its a "little people" initiative (and this, in my eyes is the best way to go), then an european roster means team players without nationalist constraints and completelly willing to disregard or even going against their own people in the interest of the common good.

It´s tricky.
Anyone can pull an european superteam.

The tricky part is to come up with an european superteam that seems plausible.

[Jake V]

So... you're saying that a character called "Arabian Knight" isn't all that plausable? Or in good taste for that matter? :D

[Eliseu Gouveia]

So... you're saying that a character called "Arabian Knight" isn't all that plausable? Or in good taste for that matter? :D

Both.
There are plenty of arabs in europe, so I can see an arab superhero in the roster, no prob.
But unless there´s some serious lateral thinking and character tweaking involved, I just don´t see him calling himself "Arabian Knight".

[Neolucifer]

Actually i think you didnt catch my drift . There is no need for it to be plausible , realist or culturally correct .

Le peregrine , Arabian Knight , radioactive man , crimson dynamo or any of those strangers heroes are sterotypes and caricatures in their appareances , powers , names and personalities . Outside of a few minor geopolitical accuracy they have no need to be credibles , none of them are anyway

The tricky part is to come up with an european superteam that seems plausible.

That tricky part is not needed outside of titles with a vocation ot be realist again like the Ultimates .

Both.
There are plenty of arabs in europe, so I can see an arab superhero in the roster, no prob.
But unless there´s some serious lateral thinking and character tweaking involved, I just don´t see him calling himself "Arabian Knight".

Again he is more like a magical character . And anyway him having this name isnt any wronger than certain a Captain Britain or our Dear Captain America . He see himself as a knight who protects Arabic lands , and his the only arab heroes i can think off , and then pretty much can postulate for the title :D

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Actually i think you didnt catch my drift . There is no need for it to be plausible , realist or culturally correct .

Le peregrine , Arabian Knight , radioactive man , crimson dynamo or any of those strangers heroes are sterotypes and caricatures in their appareances , powers , names and personalities . Outside of a few minor geopolitical accuracy they have no need to be credibles , none of them are anyway



That tricky part is not needed outside of titles with a vocation ot be realist again like the Ultimates .

Actually, they DO have to be credible.
Within the latitude that a comicbook allows, that is.
It´s called suspension of disbelief. I can accept that Batman jumps from building to building or Spiderman can lift cars, but if you put them flying or deflecting bullets, I´ll just call it bogus and throw the comic out the window.
Suspending the Goldwin´s law for a sec, aside from the fact that the name "Arabian Knight" makes as much sense as "Jewish Nazi" or "Vegetarian Man-eater", you can´t sell the concept of an european superhero team if the members don´t look plausible and it doesn´t get less plausible than Sabra and Arabian Knight on an european setting.
Or even in the SAME group, for that matter :eek: :rolleyes:
As maniqueistic as the average US reader´s view of europe is, they are still able to realise that the setting is not credible.
And if it´s not credible, it won´t sell.
Even caricatures have to obey to rule if they wish to suspend disbelief.


Again he is more like a magical character . And anyway him having this name isnt any wronger than certain a Captain Britain or our Dear Captain America . He see himself as a knight who protects Arabic lands , and his the only arab heroes i can think off , and then pretty much can postulate for the title :D

An arab protecting arab land makes sense.
However, you´ll forgive my rusty notions of geography but I believe we´re talking about an EUROPEAN superteam.

[Neolucifer]

Er that suspension of disbelief is there , and only absent for YOu because YOU want geopolitical realism .

I think you need to read the recents travels of the old avengers team in Europe and tell me if the place is in any way a mirror image of the reality .

aside from the fact that the name "Arabian Knight" makes as much sense as "Jewish Nazi" or "Vegetarian Man-eater"

How so ??? Here i really fail to understand your point . If you think that he should literally be a guy in medieval armour , please lighten up :rolleyes:

don´t look plausible and it doesn´t get less plausible than Sabra and Arabian Knight on an european setting.
Actually 2 heroes/super beings putting asides national hatred to work for a common goal or against a more dangerous foe in a comics , that is so impossible . Its not as if heroes would act outside of the wishes and order of their country :rolleyes:

An arab protecting arab land makes sense.
However, you´ll forgive my rusty notions of geography but I believe we´re talking about an EUROPEAN superteam.

Play smart if you want , we both now that comment was about his name . And again we are talking about a team BASED in Europe (i mean the mentioned rooster featuring Arabian Knights) . Tell me if this sounds familiar to you , a worldwide threat requiring help from heroes of the world , or a team going everywhere in the world ... Wait this happens all the team and all teams travels everywhere .

I also guess an arabian knight shouldnt travel and only stay in Iran , i guess Captain Britain never leaves england , i guess Kurt wagner should be sent with a cage in Germany , Captain America only lives in Washington , Colossus would never set foot on the corrupted US soil :D

ps : was fun but i'll just leave for tonight .

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Er that suspension of disbelief is there , and only absent for YOu because YOU want geopolitical realism .

I think you need to read the recents travels of the old avengers team in Europe and tell me if the place is in any way a mirror image of the reality .

I´ll take your word for it.


How so ??? Here i really fail to understand your point . If you think that he should literally be a guy in medieval armour , please lighten up :rolleyes:.

During the crusades, european knights plundered whole arab cities in their quest for Jerusalem.
A Knight is the ultimate symbol of christianity.
I SERIOUSLY doubt that any arab would want to see the name "knight" associated to them in any way, shape or form.
An arab superhero calling himself "Arabian Knight" makes as much sense as "Vegetarian Meat-eater".

Actually 2 heroes/super beings putting asides national hatred to work for a common goal or against a more dangerous foe in a comics , that is so impossible . Its not as if heroes would act outside of the wishes and order of their country :rolleyes:

I don´t think you´re quite familiarised with the history between jews and arabs to fully comprehend the almost visceral hatred that exists between jews and arabs. And if we consider that Sabra´s child was killed by an arab suicide bomber and she has close ties to the Israel´s government and policies, I don´t think it would be too outlandish to say that this goes goes beyong national hatred.
Much, MUCh farther.


Play smart if you want , we both now that comment was about his name . And again we are talking about a team BASED in Europe (i mean the mentioned rooster featuring Arabian Knights) . Tell me if this sounds familiar to you , a worldwide threat requiring help from heroes of the world , or a team going everywhere in the world ... Wait this happens all the team and all teams travels everywhere .

I also guess an arabian knight shouldnt travel and only stay in Iran , i guess Captain Britain never leaves england , i guess Kurt wagner should be sent with a cage in Germany , Captain America only lives in Washington , Colossus would never set foot on the corrupted US soil :D

ps : was fun but i'll just leave for tonight .

Iranians are not arabs.
And you first mentioned an "arab superhero defending arab land".
Despite Osama Bin Laden´s wet dreams, Europe is not "arab land" quite yet.
Now OF COURSE an arab superhero should have the liberty to fight evil anywhere in the world,
I´m sure nothing would please George Bush more than seeing the "Arabian Knight" in charge of defending the White House" and Tony Blair must have rows of fantasies about a super powerful arab in front of Downing Street.

However, since this is not Disney Comics, there are things that the average reader will simply find unplausible.
An arab superhero called "Arabian Knight" defending european nations is one of them.

[thorionthei]

Not all Iranians are arabs but many do consider themself arab.

Iran
People: Persian (Farsis), Azari, Arab, Lors, Turkmen, Kurdish, Armenian, Jewish.

Not sure how comments like that fly. Americans are not white, black, indian, hispanic, etc.

Traditonally they view themselves as Persian. But you can be Persian and arab as well. I consider myself latin but I am not from Italy (where the latins originated),etc.

[The Fury]

Just to clarify on one thing before I talk about more stuff, Israel is part of Europe. That is why Sabra is included.



If it´s an EU initiative, then expect plenty of politics thrown into the mix.
Germany would neve accept a french or british leader, the UK would want someone they all agree with but whose strings the Nº #10 would be able to control, Spain would despise any portuguese names thrown in, etc, etc.
Politics, politics, politics and more such petty interestes.


If its a "little people" initiative (and this, in my eyes is the best way to go), then an european roster means team players without nationalist constraints and completelly willing to disregard or even going against their own people in the interest of the common good.
The political unrest and tension between members would actually appeal to me. It would be that type ofstory telling that could create a team that although may work well together, would argue about normal stuff happeneing, they'd speak in different languages behind each other backs. Stuff like that.

My initial idea for an EU formed team would do exactly what you said about, create tension between the nations. Different nations would want one of their top heroes on the team. As a voice for them but the actually heores would see it as the 'little people' thing you said. They are just there to fight the villians, while the governments argue.

[mastaflan]

The Enemies would most likely be any body else not from Europe. Like The Maadarin or Farouk. Which then begs why not just have an Avengers International because then what business do Europeans have dictating to the rest of the world without a rep from asia or persia or africa or the arab nations?

[Rasputin]

Okay, I read the first few pages, then just got lazy and skipped to the end. As a result, someone may have already suggested this so I apologize if my post is soely lacking in originiality.

Anyway, I would be all over a book set outside of the US and an Avengers book would be perfect. In order for it to work, it would need some established Avengers. So Cap. Britain and Black Panther seem obvious. But so does Thor. Since he is coming back to regular continuity soon, it would be a good time to set him in Scandinavia since he is a Norse god. And with him you have an upper-tier character with a sold fan base that can help sell a book.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

The Enemies would most likely be any body else not from Europe. Like The Maadarin or Farouk.

Not necessarily.
Europe has its own share of worms to deal with.
Disregarding for now the obvious threat of Latveria and Vic Von Doom, plenty of new european threats could emerge (and I´m not talking Red Skull and Baron Zemo).
This IS an old continent, after all.
There´s LOADS of history in there just waiting to be milked to the bone.
The ancient history of Germany and Britain, the french knights, the celts, the vikings, the roman conquerers, the greek mythology, Count Drakul and his blood-sucking minions, the portuguese imaginary on all things sea-demon related, the arab expansion, the various supersoldier programs in the old comunist satelite states like Romenia, the old Jugoslavia, the threat of xenophobia and the rise of anti-semitism, a disgruntled Magneto-like uber from a minority fed up with racism and social exclusion ....... take your pick.

[O'Blivion]

A Euro-Avengers team could work, especially if it was handled by a writer with some real knowledge of the continent who can resist the urge to get lazy and turn it into the League of National Stereotypes.

A fairly well-rounded team could be created using existing characters. For example:
Black Widow (leader)
Captain Britain
Peregrine
Hercules
Blitzkrieger

That's already pretty good in terms of diverse nations represented and enough power/experience to be credible. With one or two more members, possibly new characters ( hailing from the Balkans, Eastern Europe or Spain), it could be a well-rounded team.

And in terms of threats, a book like this would be an opportunity to create new villains primarily active in Europe and its neighboring regions (North Africa, the Mideast, Russia).

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Very good points.

However, I don´t think the idea of Black Widow as a leader would work.

NO way any european government would allow a russian spy to lead a superteam in their soil.
Heck, you´d have problems with France and Germany accepting Captain Britain as the temaleader, let alone a russian.
By the book and from what I know of the old gits, they would all go the way they went when they agreed on a portuguese name for the president of the EU comission:
Someone insignificant whose strings they can pull, order to sit or play dead.

As much as I loathe the character, I kinda like the idea that was previously forwarded of Thor in the team. Like Hercules, he´s an european divinity and it actually seems more plausible to see him in an european setting than an american one.
The other, Peregrine and Blitzkrieger, I´m not familiar with.

I do think that the Blitzkrieg ("lightning war") name carries some baggage, being that it was the name of the type of war the nazis used to conquer most of europe by storm, so there may be some sensitivities to heed there.

[O'Blivion]

Thor would be a possibility for this kind of team, but he's dead at the moment (if I'm correct) and won't be coming back in the near future if Marvel plans to go ahead with the "Teen Asgardians" concept.

You have a point about Black Widow, but she'd make an interesting team leader (a little more morally gray than, say, Captain America), and has the advantage of knowing Europe better than most Avengers (she is a former Soviet superspy after all). Also, the team doesn't necessarily have to be government-approved, and her former career could be used to create some interesting tension between the team and the Euro governments.

As for Blitzkrieger, he's one of those somewhat goofy foreign heroes created for the Contest of Champions ... true, the name has some negative connotation, and might be better off changed, but the character's electrical manipulation abilities have a lot of interesting potential.

[mastaflan]

Not necessarily.
Europe has its own share of worms to deal with.
Disregarding for now the obvious threat of Latveria and Vic Von Doom, plenty of new european threats could emerge (and I´m not talking Red Skull and Baron Zemo).
This IS an old continent, after all.
There´s LOADS of history in there just waiting to be milked to the bone.
The ancient history of Germany and Britain, the french knights, the celts, the vikings, the roman conquerers, the greek mythology, Count Drakul and his blood-sucking minions, the portuguese imaginary on all things sea-demon related, the arab expansion, the various supersoldier programs in the old comunist satelite states like Romenia, the old Jugoslavia, the threat of xenophobia and the rise of anti-semitism, a disgruntled Magneto-like uber from a minority fed up with racism and social exclusion ....... take your pick.


I know that but I bet the writers won't be able to resist the tendancy.

[Indigo Al]

As for Blitzkrieger, he's one of those somewhat goofy foreign heroes created for the Contest of Champions ... true, the name has some negative connotation, and might be better off changed, but the character's electrical manipulation abilities have a lot of interesting potential.

As long as they change the damn name, is all. That's why they need to be creative and have new characters who are not named "The Shamrock" - for pity's sake!

The otherwise excellent Astro City did a poor job with foreign superheroes. "Bullroarer" for Australia, for example. And don't get me started about "El Hombre!". That's a serious lack of care on his part (I was gonna say creativity, but Kurt Busiek is damn creative).

[Moses]

I'd like to see a European Avengers, I think it's got a lot of potential. But I'm worried that a lack of good existing characters might ruin it. But it gives a lot of scope for a talented writer to do some character reinvention.