She-Hulk, The Female Jobber?

[babybro]

She-Hulk has not had a respectable appearance in AvX. First she's beaten to a pulp by Namor in AvX. Than she is ko'ed 3 times by Rogue in Xmen Legacy.
She appears to becoming the new worf or thing of comics, well the female version anyway.

[Omegastorm]

She-Hulk has not had a respectable appearance in AvX. First she's beaten to a pulp by Namor in AvX. Than she is ko'ed 3 times by Rogue in Xmen Legacy.
She appears to becoming the new worf or thing of comics, well the female version anyway.

Maybe she should go Savage She Hulk?

o

[marvell2100]

She-Hulk has not had a respectable appearance in AvX. First she's beaten to a pulp by Namor in AvX. Than she is ko'ed 3 times by Rogue in Xmen Legacy.
She appears to becoming the new worf or thing of comics, well the female version anyway.

Followed by Ms Marvel. Yeah, She-Hulk has been Worfed.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Yeah, it's kinda upsetting. Even her Avenging Spider-Man appearance seemed off...

You know what I bet is happening? I bet she's going to be killed in Avengers vs. X-Men and people are using her while they can.

[AgPhoenix]

Yeah, it's kinda upsetting. Even her Avenging Spider-Man appearance seemed off...

You know what I bet is happening? I bet she's going to be killed in Avengers vs. X-Men and people are using her while they can.

Not trying to get into an argument with you dude, but why would you even think this? I can't even begin to wrap my head around She-Hulk dying in this "story", because her death would almost certainly mean absolutely nothing. She wasn't apart of the fight scene in AvX #2, she didn't go to the Moon in AvX #4 and she doesn't figure into the solicitations we've seen so far. Her death would expose the Marvel event formula in a way that it could never recover.

Quicksilver would be a MUCH BETTER person to die in AvX and I'm a Quicksilver fan.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Not trying to get into an argument with you dude, but why would you even think this? I can't even begin to wrap my head around She-Hulk dying in this "story", because her death would almost certainly mean absolutely nothing. She wasn't apart of the fight scene in AvX #2, she didn't go to the Moon in AvX #4 and she doesn't figure into the solicitations we've seen so far. Her death would expose the Marvel event formula in a way that it could never recover.

Quicksilver would be a MUCH BETTER person to die in AvX and I'm a Quicksilver fan.

I've been bouncing back and fourth in my head who can die in Avengers Vs. X-Men.

Cyclops
Hope
Emma
Hepizlah (Whatever her name is. She's obviously going to die if she's nowhere to be seen and just pops up in an event.)

Then I realized, the Avengers are far too safe. Cap, Iron Man, Wolverine, Spider-Man, Thor, Red Hulk, Luke Cage, and many many others are in other books. Who's left? Well, She-Hulk is prominent in a bunch of covers, and she just fight in X-Men Legacy and Uncanny X-Men. With Red She-Hulk replacing her, it seems like poor Jen may bite it as the Avenger's death.
Quicksilver is a good call, but I still think Jen is on the table.
That or Beast. (Secretly, I want Beast to die cause he's been a hypocrite.)

[Lady_Alternate]

Hepzibah is not going to die.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Hepzibah is not going to die.

Remember when Goliath just appeared in Civil War?
Hepzibah is gonna die. Also notice how Warpath vanishes from X-Men. Seeing how Hepzibah is his girlfriend...

[Lady_Alternate]

He's vanishing from Adjectiveless because Brian Wood doesn't know what to do with a terribly 80's apache character (his words, not mine) ~ he's been really upfront with that since well before AvX began.

Hepz = not dying. It's bizarre to even think so, hon.

[Monty_Cristo]

Not trying to get into an argument with you dude, but why would you even think this? I can't even begin to wrap my head around She-Hulk dying in this "story", because her death would almost certainly mean absolutely nothing.


it would mean a lot. her cousin Bruce has just rejoined the Avengers; whereas her rep has always been that she's the "acceptable" Hulk. she's a well liked member of two teams; Fantastic Four and Avengers. her death would give everyone pause. she's just a very well-connected character.


She wasn't apart of the fight scene in AvX #2, she didn't go to the Moon in AvX #4 and she doesn't figure into the solicitations we've seen so far. Her death would expose the Marvel event formula in a way that it could never recover.


Ant-man was the first to die during Disassembled despite it being an event involving the Avengers paying for their past deeds. Ant-man wasn't around when any of those deeds took place. sometimes a death is just to get everyone's attention.


Quicksilver would be a MUCH BETTER person to die in AvX and I'm a Quicksilver fan.

he might be the second death; one metahuman and one mutant. they do have a spare She-Hulk.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

He's vanishing from Adjectiveless because Brian Wood doesn't know what to do with a terribly 80's apache character (his words, not mine) ~ he's been really upfront with that since well before AvX began.

Hepz = not dying. It's bizarre to even think so, hon.

Well, don't be surprised when she gets eaten by one of those monsters running around!

[comicfan298]

I've been bouncing back and fourth in my head who can die in Avengers Vs. X-Men.

Cyclops
Hope
Emma
Hepizlah (Whatever her name is. She's obviously going to die if she's nowhere to be seen and just pops up in an event.)

Then I realized, the Avengers are far too safe. Cap, Iron Man, Wolverine, Spider-Man, Thor, Red Hulk, Luke Cage, and many many others are in other books. Who's left? Well, She-Hulk is prominent in a bunch of covers, and she just fight in X-Men Legacy and Uncanny X-Men. With Red She-Hulk replacing her, it seems like poor Jen may bite it as the Avenger's death.
Quicksilver is a good call, but I still think Jen is on the table.
That or Beast. (Secretly, I want Beast to die cause he's been a hypocrite.)

The Red Hulk as been on a path of redemption, he could sacrifice himself in the ultimate redeeming act. I wouldn't say Red Hulk is safe.

If Jen dies its going to lead to this. And possible mess the dynamic of the Defenders book.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/39876/1906619-screen_shot_2011_07_13_at_10.54.11_pm.png

[Monty_Cristo]

The Red Hulk as been on a path of redemption, he could sacrifice himself in the ultimate redeeming act. I wouldn't say Red Hulk is safe.

If Jen dies its going to lead to this. And possible mess the dynamic of the Defenders book.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/39876/1906619-screen_shot_2011_07_13_at_10.54.11_pm.png

how? Betty is in Defenders. she basically has no connection to Jen. and it's already been foreshadowed that "everyone i love, dies." people thought they were talking about Strange. but i think it's more likely that it's Betty. the Red Hulk's career has an expiration date simply because of who he is. eventually they'll want the focus to be on Banner-Hulk.

[comicfan298]

how? Betty is in Defenders. she basically has no connection to Jen. and it's already been foreshadowed that "everyone i love, dies." people thought they were talking about Strange. but i think it's more likely that it's Betty. the Red Hulk's career has an expiration date simply because of who he is. eventually they'll want the focus to be on Banner-Hulk.

She does have connection, Jen is tied to her origin and they are good friends, the Leader wanted to see if she could kill someone she cared about, which she did (it was an LMD) in preparation of killing the Red Hulk. When I say dynamic I mean she wouldn't be so pally with Namor. I may be stretching on that but it will lead to the Hulk going World Breaker and smashing everyone.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

The Red Hulk as been on a path of redemption, he could sacrifice himself in the ultimate redeeming act. I wouldn't say Red Hulk is safe.

If Jen dies its going to lead to this. And possible mess the dynamic of the Defenders book.

Red Hulk is safe because he still has his own book. Unless that gets a cancellation, I don't see Red Hulk dying.

Also, we know Green Hulk will join the Avengers. What better way than to kill his cousin? (And here comes me being super paranoid again!)

[CMBMOOL]

Okay maybe you guys have a point that since the Events of Civil War, She-Hulk has felt a bit...weaker than usual. Still, she's one of Marvel's fan favorite characters, surely they wouldn't try to kill her and keep her dead for a long time, right ? :frown:

[comicfan298]

Red Hulk is safe because he still has his own book. Unless that gets a cancellation, I don't see Red Hulk dying.

Also, we know Green Hulk will join the Avengers. What better way than to kill his cousin? (And here comes me being super paranoid again!)

So Hulk is going to join a team that let his cousin get killed?

[comicfan298]

Okay maybe you guys have a point that since the Events of Civil War, She-Hulk has felt a bit...weaker than usual. Still, she's one of Marvel's fan favorite characters, surely they wouldn't try to kill her and keep her dead for a long time, right ? :frown:

She went off the table for eight months a couple of years ago, why do it again.

[Hambone]

Hepz = not dying. It's bizarre to even think so, hon.

I dunno, didn't one of the future solicits mention Namor going postal on the Avengers for something? Now it could have something to do with Emma, (or Atlantis) but we also know from the recent Uncanny issue Namor intends to sex up Hepz at some point. He always been very protective of the ladies he wants to nail, and vengeful to those who insult or harm them.

We didn't see alot of Bill Foster prior to his appearance in Civil War either...

[CMBMOOL]

She went off the table for eight months a couple of years ago, why do it again.

I meant LONGER than 8 months....:mad:

More like a year or so ?

[Songbird/Diamondback]

So Hulk is going to join a team that let his cousin get killed?

More like he'll join the side that didn't kill his cousin. They said that both Hulks will be in this event, and seeing how underused She-Hulk is, I have a baaaaad feeling in my gut.

[comicfan298]

I meant LONGER than 8 months....:mad:

More like a year or so ?

Again they did it 3 years ago.


More like he'll join the side that didn't kill his cousin. They said that both Hulks will be in this event, and seeing how underused She-Hulk is, I have a baaaaad feeling in my gut.

He would smash both, so unless they plan for the Hulk to go nuts, I think is fairly safe.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Again they did it 3 years ago.
He would smash both, so unless they plan for the Hulk to go nuts, I think is fairly safe.

All I'm saying, She-Hulk has a target on her head, so on alert!

[AdamYJ]

All I'm saying, She-Hulk has a target on her head, so on alert!

Well, they do have three of them right now. Maybe they figure people won't miss one.

[marvell2100]

So Hulk is going to join a team that let his cousin get killed?

Wouldn't he blame the people that killed his cousin? Would would he be upset with the Avengers?

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Well, they do have three of them right now. Maybe they figure people won't miss one.

But it's SHE-HULK! THE SHE-HULK!

Why should the females be more expendable?

[comicfan298]

Wouldn't he blame the people that killed his cousin? Would would he be upset with the Avengers?

He would be upset with both.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

He would be upset with both.

You are aware that this event is writing all the characters out of character. Cap suddenly fighting Wolverine for example.

[comicfan298]

You are aware that this event is writing all the characters out of character. Cap suddenly fighting Wolverine for example.

Hulk not going nuts over his cousins death would be on the ridiculous level of out of character and nobody would buy it.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Hulk not going nuts over his cousins death would be on the ridiculous level of out of character and nobody would buy it.

Oh, he'll go nuts, but just to join the Avengers in defeating the X-Men.

[Zagreus]

The Red Hulk as been on a path of redemption, he could sacrifice himself in the ultimate redeeming act. I wouldn't say Red Hulk is safe.

If Jen dies its going to lead to this. And possible mess the dynamic of the Defenders book.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/39876/1906619-screen_shot_2011_07_13_at_10.54.11_pm.png

Jen has never factored in to the Defenders book AT ALL. I've read every issue, so her dying wouldn't effect that book one iota except maybe that Betty would have a panel or two of showing a sad face/angry face that her kinda-sorta friend is dead.

I personally prefer Betty as I feel that Jen storylines are a bit played out, but I know there's a ton of Jen fans out there who would feel uber-pissed if Jen died and all of a sudden Betty was "the" She-Hulk. But I wouldn't mind. Betty is more fierce right now, more inexperienced, more prone to making mistakes, doesn't know everyone in the whole damn marvel U already, AND carries a big ass sword. What's not to love?

And Hulk going nuts and going on a rampage... dude, that's a GOOD thing.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Jen has never factored in to the Defenders book AT ALL. I've read every issue, so her dying wouldn't effect that book one iota except maybe that Betty would have a panel or two of showing a sad face/angry face that her kinda-sorta friend is dead.

I personally prefer Betty as I feel that Jen storylines are a bit played out, but I know there's a ton of Jen fans out there who would feel uber-pissed if Jen died and all of a sudden Betty was "the" She-Hulk. But I wouldn't mind. Betty is more fierce right now, more inexperienced, more prone to making mistakes, doesn't know everyone in the whole damn marvel U already, AND carries a big ass sword. What's not to love?

And Hulk going nuts and going on a rampage... dude, that's a GOOD thing.

She's kinda a bitch.

And not if it's at the expense of another good character.

[Rolento]

jen is present on a cover of 10 issue avx contain from two hulks.her only beat rogue and already such thoughts concerning her future.she from hulk family her almost can't be killed (excuse me for my language)

[Songbird/Diamondback]

jen is present on a cover of 10 issue avx contain from two hulks.her only beat rogue and already such thoughts concerning her future.she from hulk family her almost can't be killed (excuse me for my language)

Characters can be on covers of issues that they could die in.

[Monty_Cristo]

She's kinda a bitch.


that's not how she's depicted in Defenders. she's been nothing but cordial, so far.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

that's not how she's depicted in Defenders. she's been nothing but cordial, so far.

She is better in that book, I'll admit. But it does feel like they're just writing toned down She-Hulk there.

[Rolento]

she large female character in the Universe of marvel and was 2 years ago one shot the devoted her 30.Elektra too seldom appears recently, rachel summers and silver sable too long wasn't visible. If large character seldom appears recently it don't mean that he will die soon.though this cover gives a reason for concern http://marvel.wikia.com/Hulk_Vol_2_54

[Songbird/Diamondback]

she large female character in the Universe of marvel and was 2 years ago one shot the devoted her 30.Elektra too seldom appears recently, rachel summers and silver sable too long wasn't visible. If large character seldom appears recently it don't mean that he will die soon

Yeah, but you never know with these writers. RIP Toxin.

[tigerkaya]

If anyone should get the axe its that Red She Hulk her return has brought nothing other than the return of pointless drama between her and Hulk relationship status.

[Wellman]

She-Hulk is a jobber just like the Thing sometimes is in the pages of Fantastic Four. She is strong and durable, which means writers have no problem using her and other characters of that status as benchmarks for villains powers.

The fact that she is somewhat iconic works for her and against her similar to how it does any Avenger not named Iron Man, Captain America, Thor or Hulk. Still, anyone thinking she might die because of this is probably off. She-Hulk, especially with the boost Hulk just got isn't going anywhere.

[Starfish]

I'm afraid getting jobbed out will be the eternal burden of most bricks and healers in comics, because whenever writers want to establish the power of a villain, they let them dish it out to those characters who can take the punishment. That aside, it's been a while since we've got to see a good performance by Shulkie. I feel that Betty has stolen much of her thunder, which is unfortunate, as I like both characters very much.

Can we get a She-Hulks team-up title already? Betty and Jen can provide the snark and banter, while simultaneously trying to teach Lyra important life-lessons.

As for Jen possibly dying during AvX, I'd say the chances for that are extraordinarily slim. On the Avengers side, Pietro and Wanda are currently topping the list of potential candidates.

[Seresecros]

Neither She-Hulk nor Hepzibah will die in this event. AvX is currently an elimination survivor-style storyline. The secondary characters get taken out in the tie-in books so the main teams are the only ones left to appear in the main series.

[USERNAME TAKEN]

I must confess, Jen was stomped pretty hard in X-men Legacy by Rogue.

At least we got another obligatory "Captain America punches Gambit" scene again (this is the third time).

At this point, Marvel will soon replace the iconic image of Cap socking Hitler with Cap socking Gambit.

[comicfan298]

Jen has never factored in to the Defenders book AT ALL. I've read every issue, so her dying wouldn't effect that book one iota except maybe that Betty would have a panel or two of showing a sad face/angry face that her kinda-sorta friend is dead.

She is friends with Betty but anyway like I said I was kind of stretching that, but it would at least leave Betty not being so pally to Namor.


I personally prefer Betty as I feel that Jen storylines are a bit played out, but I know there's a ton of Jen fans out there who would feel uber-pissed if Jen died and all of a sudden Betty was "the" She-Hulk. But I wouldn't mind. Betty is more fierce right now, more inexperienced, more prone to making mistakes, doesn't know everyone in the whole damn marvel U already, AND carries a big ass sword. What's not to love?

I like Betty as well (Jennifer is still my favourite), though I do have a few small issues with her in the Defenders but that is to do with the way she is being written and drawn (how hard is it to add two red streaks really?). But I think Jen being around benefits Betty more. They can make her different and her own character. Without Jen they can easily slip into making her a red Jennifer Walters. Also what's wrong with being well connected to the Marvel Universe?


And Hulk going nuts and going on a rampage... dude, that's a GOOD thing.

I agree, World War Hulk being a good example.


I'm afraid getting jobbed out will be the eternal burden of most bricks and healers in comics, because whenever writers want to establish the power of a villain, they let them dish it out to those characters who can take the punishment. That aside, it's been a while since we've got to see a good performance by Shulkie. I feel that Betty has stolen much of her thunder, which is unfortunate, as I like both characters very much.

Getting jobbed is part of being a brick as you said but when its constantly it gets annoying.


Can we get a She-Hulks team-up title already? Betty and Jen can provide the snark and banter, while simultaneously trying to teach Lyra important life-lessons.

That was pretty much the plan from the last book, but got cancelled before it had a chance.


As for Jen possibly dying during AvX, I'd say the chances for that are extraordinarily slim. On the Avengers side, Pietro and Wanda are currently topping the list of potential candidates.

Exactly plus the Hulk is involved, as I said he will go nuts if she did and would destroy the X-men.

[timeismoney]

They job everybody to Rogue in X Men Legacy to make her look good.

[Iron Maiden]

They job everybody to Rogue in X Men Legacy to make her look good.

Exactly... this should not be a surprise. It would be fun if Shulkie had her own title again in which to pound the snot out of Rogue.

[Aaric Rivad]

They job everybody to Rogue in X Men Legacy to make her look good.

Yeah, that was nice. Iron Man apparently made his remote armor out of egg shells or something.

There are a lot of characters on the Avengers side that have spent the last few years jobbing. Thing is finally getting a chance to kick some ass; it would be nice if She-Hulk got the same opportunity.

[CMBMOOL]

Yeah, that was nice. Iron Man apparently made his remote armor out of egg shells or something.

There are a lot of characters on the Avengers side that have spent the last few years jobbing. Thing is finally getting a chance to kick some ass; it would be nice if She-Hulk got the same opportunity.

When was the last time the Thing had a chance to cut lose, outside of the FF books ? :confused:

[Tyler]

To be fair, losing to Rogue isn't jobbing. Once Rogue was set on draining her completely, there wasn't much Jen could've done. I did have some problems with how she was written though. Last issue of Legacy she gets spooked and thunderclaps some kids, which seems to have been explained away as an instinctive reaction but a smart woman whose been around as long as she has ought to have known better. At the beginning of Legacy 267, Rogue drops her very easily - okay Rogue was furious and Jen might've been recovering from the initial power drain but then having got off the hook once to go charging at Rogue from behind basically yelling 'Here I come' seemed very rookie. And then to express amazement at Rogue's acrobatics... she absorbs powers, Jen, shouldn't be surprised at anything she might do. Overall She-Hulk was pretty clueless in this tie-in. A gamma-powered Rogue dropped Frenzy (temporarily) and trashed the drone Iron Man - she was a better She-Hulk than the one who has been doing it for umpteen years.

Outside of her own book, Jen has been frankly terrible. Dispatched with one blow to the back of the head by Namor in the last issue of Uncanny, another comic in which she generally wandered about chatting like it was all new to her. Before that, I think she popped up in the Fantastic Four to get blasted unconcious by some Kree Sentries. In Incredible Hulks she was beaten up and depowered temporarily by Arm'Chedon. From the solicits/covers to her upcoming appearances with Red Hulk (oh there's another who beat her up in a humiliating fashion not too long ago), looks like she'll require some rescuing.. Tough enough to take a beating but not good enough to hand them out to anyone any good is the impression I get of the current She-Hulk. Who'd want another series with a character like that? It'd take numerous guest-appearances and team-ups for her to stand up to any villains of note.

The hype's building for Carol's solo launch as Captain Marvel 'Earth's mightiest hero'. Really? In the current Secret Avengers, her main role seems to be crushing on Marvell. Give her all the power-ups in the world, have creative teams gush constantly about her awesomeness but if in team-ups, tie-ins, events, she carries on the habitual secondary, support role, nobody will buy into it. Sorry if that seems a bit tangential, but there's little point building up female powerhouse types if outside of their own little bubble they're never capable of handling the spotlight and forever defering to their male 'peers'.

[Ravin' Ray]

Gotta agree with Tyler's points there on Jen's performance in Legacy. I got some minor satisfaction seeing Rogue barely holding it together with She-Hulk's rage just boiling beneath the surface.

Look, this is a woman who has lost both her civilian best friend (Jill in Savage She-Hulk #2) and superhero best friend (Wasp in Secret Invasion); been looked down as a shadow of the Hulk not only by heavyweight villains (Abomination) but C-listers (Stiltman) as well; who has been lied to about her inability to revert to human form by Mr. Fantastic and Doc Samson; savaged out several times in her career (most notably by Wanda); manipulated by rival Mallory Book into getting disbarred; and goodness knows what else. And then she gets thrashed about by just about every opponent she encounters?

Unacceptable!

It's about time Dan Slott pitch his Reckoning War to Marvel and get another writer to follow up on it if he can't continue it and make She-Hulk prominent. Or have Marvel reconsider FVL's Destroyers mini which seemed so promising. I'm getting just about fed up with She-Hulk getting shafted and for one of the very last characters (co)-created by Stan Lee it borders on disrespectful for me.

[The Black Guardian]

She-Hulk has not had a respectable appearance in AvX. First she's beaten to a pulp by Namor in AvX. Than she is ko'ed 3 times by Rogue in Xmen Legacy.
She appears to becoming the new worf or thing of comics, well the female version anyway.
That's not jobbing. That's functioning as intended.

Namor > She-Hulk (Namor routinely goes against those superior to She-Hulk)
Rogue > She-Hulk (she has a history of doing just this; this was about the 3rd time she's been KO'd by Rogue throughout history)

[Wellman]

Yeah, that was nice. Iron Man apparently made his remote armor out of egg shells or something.

There are a lot of characters on the Avengers side that have spent the last few years jobbing. Thing is finally getting a chance to kick some ass; it would be nice if She-Hulk got the same opportunity.

I think she was in a Fear Itself tie in with Howard the Duck and Man-Thing, but I know Jen had a good showing in the She-Hulks book as well as the Vengeance mini series from last year, although she had to put up with a lot of Miss America Chavez's snark.

[tigerkaya]

Gotta agree with Tyler's points there on Jen's performance in Legacy. I got some minor satisfaction seeing Rogue barely holding it together with She-Hulk's rage just boiling beneath the surface.

Look, this is a woman who has lost both her civilian best friend (Jill in Savage She-Hulk #2) and superhero best friend (Wasp in Secret Invasion); been looked down as a shadow of the Hulk not only by heavyweight villains (Abomination) but C-listers (Stiltman) as well; who has been lied to about her inability to revert to human form by Mr. Fantastic and Doc Samson; savaged out several times in her career (most notably by Wanda); manipulated by rival Mallory Book into getting disbarred; and goodness knows what else. And then she gets thrashed about by just about every opponent she encounters?

Unacceptable!

It's about time Dan Slott pitch his Reckoning War to Marvel and get another writer to follow up on it if he can't continue it and make She-Hulk prominent. Or have Marvel reconsider FVL's Destroyers mini which seemed so promising. I'm getting just about fed up with She-Hulk getting shafted and for one of the very last characters (co)-created by Stan Lee it borders on disrespectful for me.

Agreed I'm tired of She Hulk getting screwed over while those red fake Hulks discounting The Original Hulk get all the spotlight and glory in their ongoing. Its time one of them or both get the shaft in to limbo or killed off in the next event.
Either way I'm tired of Jen having to be placed as canon fodder along side the other heroes without ongoing titles.

[BrotherUnitNo_4]

I think she was in a Fear Itself tie in with Howard the Duck and Man-Thing, but I know Jen had a good showing in the She-Hulks book as well as the Vengeance mini series from last year, although she had to put up with a lot of Miss America Chavez's snark.

Well it's easier to shine when you're actually one of the heroes. Her most recent appearances were as foils to X-characters in the X-books. There was no way she was coming out on top.

Personally I think Rogue is overpowered, but it would have been nice to see She-Hulk go a few rounds with Namor considering she's been upgraded over the years and she got combat training under Gamora.

[comicfan298]

Well it's easier to shine when you're actually one of the heroes. Her most recent appearances were as foils to X-characters in the X-books. There was no way she was coming out on top.

Personally I think Rogue is overpowered, but it would have been nice to see She-Hulk go a few rounds with Namor considering she's been upgraded over the years and she got combat training under Gamora.

Sadly that training has never been used outside of her own book and probably never will be used.

[AgPhoenix]

To be fair, losing to Rogue isn't jobbing. Once Rogue was set on draining her completely, there wasn't much Jen could've done. I did have some problems with how she was written though. Last issue of Legacy she gets spooked and thunderclaps some kids, which seems to have been explained away as an instinctive reaction but a smart woman whose been around as long as she has ought to have known better. At the beginning of Legacy 267, Rogue drops her very easily - okay Rogue was furious and Jen might've been recovering from the initial power drain but then having got off the hook once to go charging at Rogue from behind basically yelling 'Here I come' seemed very rookie. And then to express amazement at Rogue's acrobatics... she absorbs powers, Jen, shouldn't be surprised at anything she might do. Overall She-Hulk was pretty clueless in this tie-in. A gamma-powered Rogue dropped Frenzy (temporarily) and trashed the drone Iron Man - she was a better She-Hulk than the one who has been doing it for umpteen years.

Thank you for expounding on everything that bothered me with that fight sequence, besides the fact that it nearly put me to sleep with how formulaic the final parts of it were. Rogue winning wasn't the issue, but how she won was. Being as smart as Jen is, she never should've gotten that frazzled, nor should she have been shocked at what Rogue could do with her powers. Everything that happened to She-Hulk is everything that happened to Rich Rider in Secret Avengers #4, except Nova didn't get his ass kicked by Steve Rogers. It's the type of lazy shorthand that damages the viability of characters in the long run.


Outside of her own book, Jen has been frankly terrible. Dispatched with one blow to the back of the head by Namor in the last issue of Uncanny, another comic in which she generally wandered about chatting like it was all new to her. Before that, I think she popped up in the Fantastic Four to get blasted unconcious by some Kree Sentries. In Incredible Hulks she was beaten up and depowered temporarily by Arm'Chedon. From the solicits/covers to her upcoming appearances with Red Hulk (oh there's another who beat her up in a humiliating fashion not too long ago), looks like she'll require some rescuing.. Tough enough to take a beating but not good enough to hand them out to anyone any good is the impression I get of the current She-Hulk. Who'd want another series with a character like that? It'd take numerous guest-appearances and team-ups for her to stand up to any villains of note.

Welcome to one of the bigger creative problems Marvel has had over the past 8 - 10 years. Due to the Marketing concerns of the day, you can't have the Movie/Writer's Focus characters look bad in any major capacity. This creates a glass ceiling that not only makes the "not-so-lucky" characters look weak story wise, but creates a feeling of apathy towards those characters. A She-Hulk series would get KILLED in this market right now, and it'd be partially due to what's been happening to her lately.


The hype's building for Carol's solo launch as Captain Marvel 'Earth's mightiest hero'. Really? In the current Secret Avengers, her main role seems to be crushing on Marvell. Give her all the power-ups in the world, have creative teams gush constantly about her awesomeness but if in team-ups, tie-ins, events, she carries on the habitual secondary, support role, nobody will buy into it. Sorry if that seems a bit tangential, but there's little point building up female powerhouse types if outside of their own little bubble they're never capable of handling the spotlight and forever defering to their male 'peers'.

And Captain Marvel comes out when again? Once again, you bring up yet another insightful point. Creators can worship at altar of a character's awesomeness all they want. Power Upgrades can be given out like candy and they can also promise that things will be awesome till the cows come home. But if said character isn't given any agency outside of their book, then it's all for naught. An excellent book should be a requirement for every book that gets a solo, but in this day and age, it can't stop there. For better or worse, the character has to matter in the meta-plot of the Universe.

[x-men_always_win]

Get over it! Namor, Gambit and other X-men jobbed too.