Avengers or New Avengers

[Phelpzy]

I just started pickig up Secret AVengers since Remender took over, but I'd like to follow a regular Avengers title, I know Bendis wrote both, but which is better. I follow all the Ultimate Titles, wolvie and x-men, venom, amazing spiderman, and uncanny x-force so I have no knowledge of any of the characters besides wolvie and spidey in avengers titles, I quit reading cap when Bucky went on trail as Cap, Thor when it became Moghty Thor/journey into, and iron man after stark resilient vol 1 so the big 3 I have no knowledge past the , but wanna try a avengers title

[GokaiRed]

Frankly, I'd suggest Avengers Academy, as I think that one has a much better grasp on the characters it uses, and has a story that doesn't stagnate as much as either Avengers or New Avengers. The writing is very strong and the artwork is typically solid, for what is clearly a "stepchild" sort of book. It's consistently very entertaining, whereas I honestly find those other two books frustrating more often than not.

It's also about more than just the kid characters, in case you're one of those fans. >_>

[Phelpzy]

I thought about Academy but I have no idea who even stars in it. I read the first issue of New and Avengers and liked avengers more, but I'm not gonna go by just one issue.

[Corey W]

I thought about Academy but I have no idea who even stars in it. I read the first issue of New and Avengers and liked avengers more, but I'm not gonna go by just one issue.

Since they have the same author, I would suggest buying the one with the characters or art that you like better.

[Phelpzy]

Since they have thor, I would suggest buying the one with the characters or art that you like better.

Does the artist in Avengers change? And I can't stand Luke Cage so I guess imma be getting Avengers if I start, is it a series thats even worth reading?

[TonyStark1012]

I'd go with Avengers. I've enjoyed most of the issues except for the Fear Itself tie ins.

[dbcb314]

I would avoid Avenger's Academy. i foudn it boring and it is like a boring WatXM.

I like New Avengers better personally. I like most of the characters more, plus i thought there arcs were a little better. I found almost all of the Avengers stories as boring as heck.

[GokaiRed]

The artists in the current runs have all changed multiple times.

And I really wish more people would give books a try regardless of familiarity with certain characters. How will you ever know if something is good if you only seek out your favorites, even though the book they're featured in isn't that good? You could end up having a new favorite by learning about them in a book you might have previously overlooked.

[Corey W]

Does the artist in Avengers change? And I can't stand Luke Cage so I guess imma be getting Avengers if I start, is it a series thats even worth reading?

Honestly, it is not my cup of tea. But it is very popular and a lot of people like it. Not knowiung anything about your reading tastes all I can say is pick up a few issues and try it. If you don't like it, you waste twenty bucks and learn a lesson. If you do, you have years of Bendis-Avengers back issues to look forward to.

[Prince Of Orphans]

You're asking us to choose the lesser of two evils here lol. I'd go with New Avengers, but if you can't stand Luke Cage, go with Avengers.

[Phelpzy]

Honestly, it is not my cup of tea. But it is very popular and a lot of people like it. Not knowiung anything about your reading tastes all I can say is pick up a few issues and try it. If you don't like it, you waste twenty bucks and learn a lesson. If you do, you have years of Bendis-Avengers back issues to look forward to.

Toward the top o this thread I have the titles I read,but here they are again, all Ultimate Titles, WatX, uncanny x-force, VENOM!, Amazing Spiderman, Scarlet Spider, and Secret Avengers

[LeonardEugenius]

I enjoy the dynamic in New Avengers more. To me, there's a greater sense of camaraderie

[Songbird/Diamondback]

There's no difference between the books. The two teams even crossover all the time.

Read Academy. Who cares if you don't know the characters, know someone who isn't already famous! Ya bum!

[Corey W]

Toward the top o this thread I have the titles I read,but here they are again, all Ultimate Titles, WatX, uncanny x-force, VENOM!, Amazing Spiderman, Scarlet Spider, and Secret Avengers

I don't read any of those titles regularly except Secret Avengers and I haven't read the Remender issues (which I think you said is where your started) since I am a trade waiter. Sorry I couldn't be more help.

[Nomads1]

Honestly, I'd say you picked a terrible time to start sampling these titles. For the next few months they are going to be completly immersed in AvsX cross-overs and tie-ins. Last issue of New Avengers didn't even feature ANY New Avengers. A couple of months after that, Bendis will leave the title, and who knows who will replace him or even what will happen with the titles. If I were you, I'd wait it out, and start from the ground up with the new guy and the new status quo. If you really are that anxious to get into some regular Avengers book, I'd go with the suggestion of Avengers Academy, I gather they'll be less involved directly into AvsX than any of the other titles.

Peace

[coveredinbees]

Read Academy. It stars Hank Pym, Tigra, Quicksilver, and some kids. Avengers and New Avengers are boring. Or read old Avengers runs.

[Phelpzy]

Read Academy. It stars Hank Pym, Tigra, Quicksilver, and some kids. Avengers and New Avengers are boring. Or read old Avengers runs.

I hate Hank Pym, lol, but to ther guy that posted if I start a avengers title it'll be from issue 1

[Songbird/Diamondback]

I hate Hank Pym, lol, but to ther guy that posted if I start a avengers title it'll be from issue 1

You sure you hate him?

He's an awesome character under writers who aren't "LOL, he slapped his wife!"

[Phelpzy]

You sure you hate him?

He's an awesome character under writers who aren't "LOL, he slapped his wife!"

I didmt care for him in his mini Ant-man and Wasp

[Songbird/Diamondback]

I didmt care for him in his mini Ant-man and Wasp

If the Slott run of Mighty Avengers can't get you to like him, nothing can!

[Zen-aku]

Avoid academy, the book is a bore, and the kids are bland as hell

as for your question go with New avengers, the characters all have good chemistry between each other, and they really embody the "defeat foes no single hero could defeat alone" aspect of the avengers

[Zak213]

Avengers academy or bust. Its awesome.

The thing is, Bendis is on his way out so you might want to wait till the new guy or girl comes in and read it from there.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Avoid academy, the book is a bore, and the kids are bland as hell

as for your question go with New avengers, the characters all have good chemistry between each other, and they really embody the "defeat foes no single hero could defeat alone" aspect of the avengers

I'm pretty sure baby sitting doesn't embody that. And most of their villains are chumps!

[Mechano]

Pickup both Avengers and New Avengers.... but not Academy. That book has a bunch of nobodies in it.

[Zen-aku]

I'm pretty sure baby sitting doesn't embody that. And most of their villains are chumps!

No one baby sits, they have a nanny as a side character, that's like saying the old avengers cleaned and made food because they had jarvis as a secondary character.

Also Agamatto, Osbourne, Ragnarok and Hammer aren't Chumps.



Pickup both Avengers and New Avengers.... but not Academy. That book has a bunch of nobodies in it.Nobodies are fine if they are written entertainingly, but that isn't the case here.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

No one baby sits, they have a nanny as a side character, that's like saying the old avengers cleaned and made food because they had jarvis as a secondary character.

Also Agamatto, Osbourne, Ragnarok and Hammer aren't Chumps.

There was a whole issue devoted to finding a baby sitter.

Agamatto I'll give you, but Osborn was REALLY weak. He was defeated by being TOUCHED! Ragnorok has been jobbed so much he's not a threat anymore.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Pickup both Avengers and New Avengers.... but not Academy. That book has a bunch of nobodies in it.

There's NOTHING wrong with not famous characters.

If that's the case, why doesn't the Marvel movies stop after the Avengers? Because there's STILL GOOD CHARACTERS OUT THERE THAT AREN'T FAMOUS!


Nobodies are fine if they are written entertainingly, but that isn't the case here.

Debatable, but I respect your opinion here.

[Mechano]

There's NOTHING wrong with not famous characters.

If that's the case, why doesn't the Marvel movies stop after the Avengers? Because there's STILL GOOD CHARACTERS OUT THERE THAT AREN'T FAMOUS!




Debatable, but I respect your opinion here.


AA was so desperate for readers that they brought in Ghost in one of their earlier issues to boost sales.

[mikekerrIII]

Pickup both Avengers and New Avengers.... but not Academy. That book has a bunch of nobodies in it.

What does that have to do with whether the books are good or not?

[Songbird/Diamondback]

AA was so desperate for readers that they brought in Ghost in one of their earlier issues to boost sales.

You mean the third issue...when it was crossing over into Thunderbolts?

[Mechano]

You mean the third issue...when it was crossing over into Thunderbolts?

Yeah, i think so... whichever one saw the massive sales spike.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Yeah, i think so... whichever one saw the massive sales spike.

You mean the PROM?

[Zen-aku]

There was a whole issue devoted to finding a baby sitter. if you ignore all the doctor strange, and Jessica jones character work sure

also every book has a filler issue from time to time.

Agamatto I'll give you, but Osborn was REALLY weak. He was defeated by being TOUCHED! Ragnorok has been jobbed so much he's not a threat anymore.

Osborune is the second most sucsessfull earthborn supervillian ever, and the only person Ragnarok has ever jobbed against was thor, and Thor is Thor so its not a negative

[Songbird/Diamondback]

if you ignore all the doctor strange, and Jessica jones character work sure

also every book has a filler issue from time to time.


Osborune is the second most sucsessfull earthborn supervillian ever, and the only person Ragnarok has ever jobbed against was thor, and Thor is Thor so its not a negative

Osborn's plan couldn't work again. It failed the moment he tried it again with nobodies.
His team lost because their pants were pulled down and Osborn lost through being touching. I'm sorry, but that's 12 issues of NOTHING!

[Zen-aku]

Osborn's plan couldn't work again. It failed the moment he tried it again with nobodies.
His team lost because their pants were pulled down and Osborn lost through being touching. I'm sorry, but that's 12 issues of NOTHING!

His plan wasn't the same as before, he played it differently, his new dark avengers was pretty much him just straight up trolling the real avengers.

Ousborne isn't and has never a been a chump

[Songbird/Diamondback]

His plan wasn't the same as before, he played it differently, his new dark avengers was pretty much him just straight up trolling the real avengers.

Ousborne isn't and has never a been a chump

The whole thing was just unnecessary. There was no reason to make another DA team.

[coveredinbees]

The first arc of New Avengers was very, very. very, very bad. It's improved a little, but the book's still not great. Avengers is better, but not awesome.


I didmt care for him in his mini Ant-man and Wasp
I didn't read that. I like him in AA and he was good in what I read of Mighty. I didn't like him at all in Initiative.

[sug2763]

I'd go with what some people said here and wait it out until Bendis is done. His dialogue is tiresome, and he can't get a grip on any character, especially the ones you read monthly (Spidey and Wolverine). The stories are a complete bore, and the Avengers sit around most of the time talking while eating or talking into a camera.

[Zen-aku]

the Avengers sit around most of the time talking while eating or talking into a camera. Thats a Lie.


The first arc of New Avengers was very, very. very, very bad. It's improved a little, but the book's still not great. How was it bad, the stakes were big, almost every character got their moment, and it had a solid begining middle and end

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Thats a Lie.

How was it bad, the stakes were big, almost every character got their moment, and it had a solid begining middle and end

Except for that AvX New Avengers with Luke Cage and Jessica Jones.
Or through Fear Itself.
...what was the point of Mockingbird vowing to kill Sin as a cliffhanger if she's not going to go anywhere with it?

[Zen-aku]

Except for that AvX New Avengers with Luke Cage and Jessica Jones.
Or through Fear Itself.
...what was the point of Mockingbird vowing to kill Sin as a cliffhanger if she's not going to go anywhere with it?

I am not saying it doesn't happen, but to say that that's what they do the majority of the issues is a childish over exaggeration [and talking to a camera ONLY happened during fear itself, and their was a goddamn point to it]

as for the thing with mockingbird, she its a plot seed, meaning it can be followed up at any time, patience

[mikekerrIII]

His plan wasn't the same as before, he played it differently, his new dark avengers was pretty much him just straight up trolling the real avengers.

Ousborne isn't and has never a been a chump

Osborn has always been a street level bully and becasue of his ego a chump. Bendis blowing him into a player never changed that. He is still the guys whose most famous accomplishment is throwing a young woman of a bridge.

[Zen-aku]

Osborn has always been a street level bully and becasue of his ego a chump. Bendis blowing him into a player never changed that. He is still the guys whose most famous accomplishment is throwing a young woman of a bridge.

I think becoming top cop of the world and leading the avengers is his biggest accomplishment now, easily

[Songbird/Diamondback]

as for the thing with mockingbird, she its a plot seed, meaning it can be followed up at any time, patience

But she has no reason to go after Sin anymore than anyone else.
It's like Black Panther vowing to kill Doctor Octopus.

[chariset]

I wouldn't read New Avengers if Doctor Strange weren't in it. Even then I own issues I wish I hadn't bought.

Bendis may redeem himself at the end of his run if he FINALLY gets around to tying off plot threads he's started and never finished... but it's been so long that I'm losing hope. The story jumps from point to point like a magpie, grasping a 'shiny' and then forgetting it a moment later. Why is Strange on the team? Why is Daredevil on the team? Too many empty chairs around the dining table?

I think it was whoever runs the Spider-Man Crawlspace blog who said that Bendis runs his stories like an RPG. It's exactly right. There's a lot of ink spilled and pages spent to recruit a character, and once that's done they just sit around idling while his player characters (Luke Cage, Wolvie, Spidey) move the story along.

[GokaiRed]

I really don't understand this idea that, because a book doesn't feature unbelievably recognizable characters, this automatically makes it bad. What's great about books with less famous characters is that the writers are given more freedom to use them however they see fit without editorial jumping down their back. The stories can be truly creative and interesting, in ways they could not be if they were about Captain America, because that would screw up the 50 other books that feature him. For the most part, Avengers Academy is the only Avenger book that is free of that burden. And even uses that to its advantage during event season, whereas the other books just feel like they're being held hostage until it's all over.


Thats a Lie.

I'm sorry, but the people in both Avengers books spend an INCREDIBLE amount of time sitting at the dinner table eating and chatting. I wouldn't mind it so much if more of those conversations actually got us anywhere with the characters and their internal struggles, but most of the time, it's the same three characters having the same basic discussions over and over again while everyone else "chimes in" with the most minimal impact possible.

Even when they finally do stop eating, they spend pages and pages with awful banter and even less actual activity while the story moves along at an extremely slow pace. Often times, the story isn't deep enough to actually warrant that sort of decompression, but the book defaults to that style regardless. A few one-shots here and there are the only sweet release, but even then, you're screwed if you don't like whoever is featured (Luke Cage, Jessica, the nanny, etc).

[Zen-aku]

But she has no reason to go after Sin anymore than anyone else.
So shes taking the inniative on it, A person wanting to bring Osama bin laden to justice for what he did doesn't have to be personally affected by him, he was an evil bastard that shatterd thousands of lives, and justice should be served in both cases.



I wouldn't read New Avengers if Doctor Strange weren't in it. Even then I own issues I wish I hadn't bought.

Bendis may redeem himself at the end of his run if he FINALLY gets around to tying off plot threads he's started and never finished... but it's been so long that I'm losing hope. The story jumps from point to point like a magpie, grasping a 'shiny' and then forgetting it a moment later. Why is Strange on the team? Why is Daredevil on the team? Too many empty chairs around the dining table?



Strange is on the team because, he was there for them, so they were there for him at possibly his lowest moment, as cage said some times u need to be surrounded by friends, and he defintly pulls his weight and has gone through some interesting developments through out the 2 volumes

Daredevil is there because he has always been close with the members, he recently had kicked major nazi ass and saved cages kid, and like wolverine ti was also a bit of redmeption as they were both Brainwashed by the hand and waged war on the superhero community and were looking to make amends and do some good.

[Zen-aku]

I'm sorry, but the people in both Avengers books spend an INCREDIBLE amount of time sitting at the dinner table eating and chatting. I wouldn't mind it so much if more of those conversations actually got us anywhere with the characters and their internal struggles, but most of the time, it's the same three characters having the same basic discussions over and over again while everyone else "chimes in" with the most minimal impact possible.
that's not what happens, you may think that's what happens but your mistaken

If they are eating they are ether briefing for a mission, or their is some character developmental/ interaction going on, Strange officaly joining the team, Spidey's distrust of Hand, Cage having to deal with working for the government, Mockingbird returning from the hospital.


but even then, you're screwed if you don't like whoever is featured (Luke Cage, Jessica, the nanny, etc). that's true of any team book, if you don't like the characters don't read i cant stand the New Mutants so guess what i don't read the books their in, simple concept don't you think

[GokaiRed]

I feel like you just ignored the substance of what I was saying there.

I understand that the characters have things to say in those scenes. I'm suggesting that much of it is redundant and unnecessarily drawn out.

The fact that they find themselves in that exact same spot, constantly just talking casually is part of the problem. There's nothing wrong with being in your base of operations, but a lot of this talk could be had on the go toward some location that is relevant to the story, or explained in the midst of action. By separating everything out to their own little bits, everything moves along at a frustrating pace.

And I really don't need you to tell me that this is my opinion. Of course it is. That's what I was asked to give. You disagree. Great. It's nice to be able to talk out your likes and dislikes, but would you please stop speaking as though my feelings on the book are somehow wrong? I don't need to fence with you about the number of pages devoted to Spidey's conflict with Victoria Hand or the situation with Luke Cage's baby because the pages speak for themselves.

[Zen-aku]

I feel like you just ignored the substance of what I was saying there.

I understand that the characters have things to say in those scenes. I'm suggesting that much of it is redundant and unnecessarily drawn out.

The fact that they find themselves in that exact same spot, constantly just talking casually is part of the problem. There's nothing wrong with being in your base of operations, but a lot of this talk could be had on the go toward some location that is relevant to the story, or explained in the midst of action. By separating everything out to their own little bits, everything moves along at a frustrating pace.

So instead of talking like normal people you want an exposition dump in the middle of combat, and also their are plenty of scenes of them talking en-route to a mission, next the exaggeration will be they are always traveling

[GokaiRed]

I like how everything is framed in extreme terms with you. If we don't move at a snail's pace, that must mean that we have to force dialogue in places it doesn't belong. Because there's no happy medium at all.

Let's try to imagine, for a moment, a book that includes good dialogue, exposition, and action, all at a solid pace, generally without sacrificing too much space to any of the other elements. Since this happens in a lot of books that are not called Avengers, it's safe to say that this is possible. Has it been happening in Avengers and New Avengers recently? I don't think so. If you wish to think this is a huge exaggeration, that's your prerogative.

[Zen-aku]

because it is a huge Exaggeration, especially after the hammer war arc

[mikekerrIII]

I think becoming top cop of the world and leading the avengers is his biggest accomplishment now, easily

That was so stupid and required so much PIS that it will soon be forgotten. Thankfully that happens to really shitty writing

[mikekerrIII]

that's not what happens, you may think that's what happens but your mistaken

If they are eating they are ether briefing for a mission, or their is some character developmental/ interaction going on, Strange officaly joining the team, Spidey's distrust of Hand, Cage having to deal with working for the government, Mockingbird returning from the hospital.

that's true of any team book, if you don't like the characters don't read i cant stand the New Mutants so guess what i don't read the books their in, simple concept don't you think they spend far too much time trying to bee Seinfeld characters and fail becasue that takes a really good writer to pull off without being banal. I don't call exchanging smart-ass remarks charter development

[mugiwara]

Who wants to read a comics with a bunch of nobodies?
I don't know, people who buyed Fantastic Four in the 60's or the "All new, all different X-Men" in the late 70's.

That said, I can undertstand why one wouldn't read a comics with new characters today. Since they are not allowed to do anything relevant besides dying off pannel.

[matthewaos]

I think New is better, at least I like it more but many times the books are interconnected. Avengers Acedemy is very good though.

[Telos]

Both New Avengers and Avengers are very bad.

If you have to buy an Avengers title by Brian Michael Bendis, get Avengers Assemble. It's not great, but it's better than the other two, and it's not tying into Avengers vs X-Men.

[CTpitch]

go with academy if you don't know the characters. IMO it helps bring in more of a connection to the characters
I went in blind with Guardians of the Galaxy and they are my favourite team

I do reccommend waiting until AvX is finished because I really don't think avengers or new avengers will have/had a good issue that is not filler

[chariset]

Strange is on the team because, he was there for them, so they were there for him at possibly his lowest moment, as cage said some times u need to be surrounded by friends, and he defintly pulls his weight and has gone through some interesting developments through out the 2 volumes.

I see your point. Yes, he was at a low ebb, and yes they wanted to help him because he had helped them. All of that makes sense.

My question about "Why is Strange on the team?" isn't really "Why would he accept their offer?" or "Why would they want him?" I think those answers are obvious: he's still a heavy hitter and there are bonds of friendship between himself, Luke, Danny, and the others. My question is more "What plot purpose was served by putting him on the team?" The opening arc with everyone playing Hot-Eye-of-Agamotto is the only major Strange story since he joined New Avengers. Ever since then, he's almost been wallpaper. There's nothing he's done in the story since that couldn't be done by some other magic user. He teleports them around and casts illusions and that's about it.

[nosocialize100]

I'm not a huge fan of New or Secret. I think as a new reader maybe the new series, Avengers Assemble would be a good choice. It's got a ton of action, the dialogue is fluffy and fun and the book gives you the perfect balance of all the main Avengers.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

Who wants to read a comics with a bunch of nobodies?

Remember that little book called Marvels?

It's an incredibly narrow mindset to think that "If they aren't famous, I shouldn't care about them." A good story is a good story, and there's many of them that don't rely on Spider-Man milking Uncle Ben's death for a sad moment.