What's In A Name? (Marriage Politics)

[Michael P]

I just posted about James Carville and Mary Matalin being married, and it occured to me that, for all her social conservatism, Ms. Matalin still made the rather liberal choice of keeping her maiden name instead of taking her husband's. Not that I think all conservatives (or liberals) feel the same way about all issues, it just struck me as interesting.

So, what are your views on the subject? I'm particularly interested in hearing from some of our brides- and groomsto-be, but everyone's opinion is welcome.

[Dreadstar]

Makes no nevermind to me as long as the kid has my name. That is, until he's old enough to get rid of it on his own, his choice.

[i_mmmchocolate]

My mom uses my dad's last name. Meanwhile she tells me, "It's best if you keep your name and add your husband's name to it."

___-___

[Dreadstar]

My mom uses my dad's last name. Meanwhile she tells me, "It's best if you keep your name and add your husband's name to it."

___-___

Oh yeah, about that?

What's the prefered method? I mean which one goes first?

[i_mmmchocolate]

Oh yeah, about that?

What's the prefered method? I mean which one goes first?

I guess my name first then his.

[Valmore]

Oh yeah, about that?

What's the prefered method? I mean which one goes first?

My wife uses Pitts-Bemis right now. Simply because she doesn't want to confuse the education department at FSU. Her maiden name is first.

[Ed Cunard]

I think the preferred is MAIDEN-HUSBAND.

My wife skipped the hyphen, and made Davis her middle name.

Which was stupid - I should have taken her name. I still say I'm Ed Davis when ordering pizza and things so I don't have to spell mine, because people say it funny no matter what.

[Dreadstar]

My wife skipped the hyphen, and made Davis her middle name.


That's what mine did.

Well, not Davis, you know what I mean.

[Michael P]

Oh yeah, about that?

What's the prefered method? I mean which one goes first?
I think it's maiden-married. Sometimes that can lead to linguistic difficulty, though, as Jay Leno shows us every Monday night on Headlines.

My friend who got married in November had a rough time of it. As Ms. W. Rouse, she was okay. Paired with C. Watkins, though, she had the unenviable choices of the alliterative (W. Watkins, guaranteed to egg on bozos who think pointing out the obvious makes them clever), or the cumbersome combined form (W. Rouse-Watkins or W. Watkins-Rouse). And that doesn't even consider what to name the kids.

All things considered, not having to worry about this stuff almost makes up for having my genitals hanging down like a big red hairy target.

[SteelTownr]

I had a Physics teacher in Highschool whose Wife kept her maiden name as a part of her title after they were married. She was Mrs. Clewell-Parker.

We started calling him Mr. Clewell, which was funny.

Mark B.

[Valmore]

I had a Physics teacher in Highschool whose Wife kept her maiden name as a part of her title after they were married. She was Mrs. Clewell-Parker.

We started calling him Mr. Clewell, which was funny.

Or how about that guy Maurey Chung?

[bfrank]

I just posted about James Carville and Mary Matalin being married, and it occured to me that, for all her social conservatism, Ms. Matalin still made the rather liberal choice of keeping her maiden name instead of taking her husband's. Not that I think all conservatives (or liberals) feel the same way about all issues, it just struck me as interesting.

So, what are your views on the subject? I'm particularly interested in hearing from some of our brides- and groomsto-be, but everyone's opinion is welcome.

you know, she probably kept it for business purposes....

[Bouncing Boy]

I took my wife's last name for various reasons, the main reason being I never liked my "maiden name" (is that the correct term for a man who changes his name to his wife's?)

[DarkBlade]

I think it'd be.. erm... boyhood name? Bachelor name?

[howyadoin]

I think it'd be.. erm... boyhood name? Bachelor name?Innocent name?

[Xombie]

My last name is a combonation of my fathers and mothers last names.

[phoenixrising]

I doubt Matalin kept it for liberal reasons. Many women with established names in their field would be good to not change their names. Most female journalists I know never did because they want to keep their bylines/credits the same. I don't plan to change mine for this reason (unless it sounds really good with my first name).

[Loren]

Are we certain that Matalin *didn't* legally change her surname? Maybe she changed her last name to Carville, but retained "Matalin" as a screen name.

My mom changed her last name when she married my dad, but she kept her maiden name (Plunkett) as a middle name. She taught in an elementary school, and at school she remained Ms. Plunkett to all of her kids.

Loren

[Phrozen]

I am glad my Mother just adopted my fathers surname. The combination of her maiden name and my fathers surname is rather goofy.

[Noir_Dark]

My last name is a combonation of my fathers and mothers last names.
That’s awesome! My girlfriend and I are getting married in the fall. We talked about adopting a completely new last name.

[Ayo]

I think it completely is up to the woman.

Personally, I'd feel wrong about asking a woman to change her name for me. I mean...its always struck me as a kind of subjugation...and it follows traditon, when you think about it.

The father of the bride walks her down the aisle and "gives her away..." And yes, she becomes "of" the groom's family. Its a tradition that I don't particularly like or agree with. However, the alternatives are too confusing:

-compound names work for one couple, but if everyone did compound names, it would only take two generations to realize that names were too cumbersome.

-if both bride and groom keep their own original names, what do the kids get named? And like above, what will THEIR kids end up with for names?


I don't know. All I know is that when I get married,* I can't see asking my future wife to change a part of her identity to become a part of mine. I don't like the idea of it. Even if she wanted to take my name, I'd at least have to make the case for her retaining her own (if for nothing else but my own conscience).

*wishful thinking.

[Fabian]

Well I no longer use my last name so whoever marries me gets to keep their maiden name. One of the many benefits of marrying me

[Brian Cronin]

It has to go maiden-married, so the alpahabetical order isn't messed up. :)

Nomar Garciaparra's last name is a combination of his parent's last names. And his middle name (Nomar) is his father's name backwards.

-Brian

[Deathstroke]

I don't care one way or another. I don't expect the woman to change to my name and I wouldn't change my name to hers (I've heard of that happening.)

[discostu]

My last name is Hocking. if I married a broad named blackman and we decide to mix our names together, my kids would be named Hockman.... and I hate Hawk Man, So that ain't happenin.

[JeffreyWKramer]

juli kept her maiden name when she married, for professional reasons - being well-known locally in her profession, she didn't want to take the chance a name change might make it more difficult for potential business to find its way to her.

[Smuggletrain]

My wife skipped the hyphen, and made Davis her middle name.


That's the traditional method.

[DarkBlade]

What about the guy taking the gal's name? Or both taking the hyphenated?

[Puma]

I kept mine by hyphenating. My last name is a large part my self identity, why should I change it?

[Rallura]

I took my wife's last name for various reasons, the main reason being I never liked my "maiden name" (is that the correct term for a man who changes his name to his wife's?)

Yeah, but we talked about it a lot before we decided. We discussed who might take whose name, hyphenating, and using some other name. (and yes Taine came up a lot...) I don't think there's one right answer. I think it's something that needs to be discussed, and compromised on.

Personally though, I don't much like hyphenated names, because, what do the kids do whan they grow up? Keep hyphenating? Chose one to hypenate? What exactly does happen?

[DarkBlade]

Heh, that one's simplified some if you know you're not going to have them..

[Sam A. Robrin]

Personally though, I don't much like hyphenated names, because, what do the kids do whan they grow up? Keep hyphenating? Chose one to hypenate? What exactly does happen?
I've known quite a few kids with hyphenated names, but not long enough to have observed what happens when Mr. Durgenweiller-Rodriguez marries Ms. Chong-Whiggenbotham. Let alone what might happen when young Master Durgenweiller-Rodriguez-Chong-Whiggenbotham plights his troth with the daughter of Ms. O'Gilhooley-Farkelstein and Mr. Kampalatta-Fujikawashi.

[Brian Cronin]

Wait, Rin, what DID you compromise on, if it's not too personal?

I know Tadhg is not a huge fan of his first or last name, so what did you guys end up with?

-Brian

[DarkBlade]

Uhm, actually we haven't finished working that out yet... it's in progress.

[Fabian]

Uhm, actually we haven't finished working that out yet... it's in progress.
You should make a thread with suggestions

[DarkBlade]

You should make a thread with suggestions
Lack of suggestions isn't really the problem..

[DarkBlade]

Makes no nevermind to me as long as the kid has my name. That is, until he's old enough to get rid of it on his own, his choice.

Why not her name?

[Winslow]

I don't really have an opinion that I would want to impress others.

I am glad my wife took my name, and that our kids have the same last name. Works for us.

[Perry Holley]

Heh, that one's simplified some if you know you're not going to have them..Yep.

Dawn had her last name changed so that it's now hyphenated... 'Moriarity' was just too cool a maiden name to lose completely.

[OzBat!]

Compound family names are a long-running tradition in my father's side of the family. The last last name has been "Smith" for a long long long time, but every generation it changes: Thomas Smith, Walker Smith, Hamilton Smith.

My Grandfather was a Walker Smith. My Grandmother was a Hamilton, so when she married my Grandfather she became a "Hamilton Smith". All the kids became "Hamilton Smith"s. But practically and officially, they were still all "Smith". The Walker, and then the Hamilton, were treated like second middle names.

This hit a hurdle when Dad got married however. The whole marriage was opposed by the rest of his family (long story revolving around his supporting the majority of them when they emigrated to Australia, and them not able to let go of the apron strings so to speak when it was time), so he deliberately didn't keep the tradition going: none of his kids were named "Fiddes Smith" (which personally I'm happy about), but just plain "Smith" (which none of us were so keen on once we were old enough to question what was going on with the rest of the family).

When I met my then-future-wife, she was adamant she wasn't going to be a plain ol' "Smith". That was fine with me; since my Dad's health had taken a permanent turn for the worst I wanted to honor him in some small way, and taking on his full surname was an easy way to do it. So, I changed by Deed Poll to "Hamilton Smith", and my kids both have "Hamilton Smith" as well.

I guess technically my wife should have become "Gough Smith", but she liked the "Hamilton" better and didn't want to inflict the "Gough" on our then-future-offspring, and stuck with the whole "Hamilton Smith" schmozzle.

My kids will have the choice what to do as they grow up and start families of their own. I don't expect my daughter to meld her complete surname with that of her prospective partner! They can decide to keep the tradition going or break completely fresh, no pressure from me.

[OzBat!]

Why not her name?Why would Dread want to inflict "BeezleBitch" on his kid?

[Paradox]

My ex took my name merely because she didn't want to be "Kimberly Brown-Pott". Too many obvious jokes.

Similarly, she said even if adopted, she'd never take her step-father's last name, because that would have made her "Kimberly Clark" and she didn't want to endure a million toilet paper jokes.

I don't care one way or the other, myself. I'm not changing my name because it's just too much of a hassle.

[Gilda Dent]

I took Emily's name when we married, though it took a bit of doing as we couldn't quite do that as an adjunct to the marriage itself. We wanted to have a common name as a symbol of our marriage and relationship to each other. Hyphenation wasn't really an option, as who really wants an eight syllable name? I certainly wouldn't want to stick any kid with that, nor with a name that would tie them to my father, a person I sincerely hope they never have any contact or association with whatsoever.

Gilda

[gary bolt]

My wife kept her maiden name partly because she had already established herself as an artist and partly because her last name is cooler than mine. We toyed with the idea of both adopting the hyphenated combination but it was simpler to leave both our names unchanged.

I worked for a guy with the name New-Small. His wife and him both adopted the name when they married because her name was Ball and his name was Small and, well...

[SteelTownr]

My wife uses Pitts-Bemis right now. Simply because she doesn't want to confuse the education department at FSU. Her maiden name is first.

Her Maiden Name is Pitts?

Too bad that your name isn't Burgh.

Mark B.

[The Dog]

I think the preferred is MAIDEN-HUSBAND.

My wife skipped the hyphen, and made Davis her middle name.

Which was stupid - I should have taken her name. I still say I'm Ed Davis when ordering pizza and things so I don't have to spell mine, because people say it funny no matter what.

Welcome to my life. People always seem to see the letter N as an L in my last name.

[StoneGold]

It doesn't matter, when I get married, I'm changing my name to Joe Kickass.

[Valmore]

Her Maiden Name is Pitts?

Too bad that your name isn't Burgh.

That would have been pretty good, wouldn't it?

[SteelTownr]

That would have been pretty good, wouldn't it?

Yeah, But only if you would have named your Kids Steelers, Pirates, and Penquins.

When they called their names in Gym Class, it would have been sweet!

Mark B.

[Valmore]

Especially if they went by last name first than first name.

"Pitts-Burgh, Steelers?"

[SteelTownr]

Especially if they went by last name first than first name.

"Pitts-Burgh, Steelers?"

Yeah! That is what I was getting at for sure!

Bring those kids around, I'll get them jerseys.

Mark B.

[DarkBlade]

If anyone's curious, I dropped my maiden surname, took BubbaJoWants & Solaris's last name as a second middle name, and have Tadhg's surname.

[PatrickG]

I took Emily's name when we married, though it took a bit of doing as we couldn't quite do that as an adjunct to the marriage itself. We wanted to have a common name as a symbol of our marriage and relationship to each other. Hyphenation wasn't really an option, as who really wants an eight syllable name? I certainly wouldn't want to stick any kid with that, nor with a name that would tie them to my father, a person I sincerely hope they never have any contact or association with whatsoever.

Gilda


'Kay, Gilda.

I have a sincere question that I hope everyone here is mature enough to treat with some decorum.

If a pre-op transexual man marries a woman, his gender can be legally changed, yes? And the marriage is still recognized?

I ask because on the subject of "gay marriage", it seems to me that in spite of the heat over the issue, there are legally recognized, legally "same gender" marriages.

Also, I seem to recall a group of Native Americans (the Sioux, perhaps?) who performed religious "gender change" rituals to bless same sex unions. Now, wouldn't the government be obliged to honor this religious rite? (I mean, they honor peyote rituals, right?) And if so, wouldn't this qualify as a legal gender change without an operation? And, in turn, wouldn't this enable marriages between people who are physically same sex?

I'm just curious about this.

[Forefinger]

Oh yeah, about that?

What's the prefered method? I mean which one goes first?
My Mom changed her middle name to her former last name, and took my Dad's as her last name. Even though they are divorced now, she has kept that name so she would have the same last name as my sister and I.

My wife just took my last name without changing her middle name. She has said a couple of times that she wished that she had changed her middle name to her maiden name, but she's happy with her name as it is. My last name is much shorter than her maiden one.

[Guapo Méndez]

My wife has not "taken" my last name. I don't blame her. She still uses her maiden name on her bank account, car ownership papers and the like- and she sometimes unofficially goes by "Mrs. Santa Cruz Polanco".

Regarding kids, we have no problems here. Your full name has the combination of your father and mother's surnames. You carry your dad's surname as your first surname, and then your mother's as the second one.
So, I'm Antonio Ramon (first and second names) Santa Cruz Polanco (my dad's surname) Cabrales (my mom's...we were lucky. My cousin's second surname is also a composite one: Ruiz-Esparza...there's never enough room for our full names on official documents and entries).

My kid's surnames are Santa Cruz Polanco Córdova (neat. we didn't neet to change the monogramed robes). Marco's kids will carry the family name, Bárbara's won't, because the mother's surname is always left out.

[DLFerguson]

My wife's maiden name is Cabbagestalk and she asked me if I minded if she continued using it after we were married since it was such a unique name and she didn't want to stop using it. I said I'd leave it up to her discretion. At official functions such as weddings and business dinners and on legal documents she's "Mrs. Patricia Ferguson" but most of the time she's "Pat Cabbagestalk"

When it came time to write the dedications for my books she asked if I could hyphenate so in the dedications she's "Patricia Cabbagestalk-Ferguson" which she likes 'cause it makes her sound all Britishy.

[BcAugust]

'Kay, Gilda.

I have a sincere question that I hope everyone here is mature enough to treat with some decorum.

If a pre-op transexual man marries a woman, his gender can be legally changed, yes? And the marriage is still recognized?

I ask because on the subject of "gay marriage", it seems to me that in spite of the heat over the issue, there are legally recognized, legally "same gender" marriages.

Also, I seem to recall a group of Native Americans (the Sioux, perhaps?) who performed religious "gender change" rituals to bless same sex unions. Now, wouldn't the government be obliged to honor this religious rite? (I mean, they honor peyote rituals, right?) And if so, wouldn't this qualify as a legal gender change without an operation? And, in turn, wouldn't this enable marriages between people who are physically same sex?

I'm just curious about this.

One, they don't really "honor" the peyote ceremonies. (Ie: You can be arrested or fired for possesion, even if you are a member of the church. And you have no right for ceremonies in prison.)

Two, Native laws have no impact on American laws. We're different "nations" in that respect, we're just conquered ones. So, while transexual marriages are considered normal, they aren't legally binding to the US, just the tribe.(Note I said transexual, not gay. There is still quite a bit of difference to me and other Natives. The gender change ceremonies aren't casual. In fact, they're our answer to pre surgery times. Which makes me wonder if anyone has ever done a study on transexualism amoungst Natives, given every tribe I know has "codes" for it)

[Gilda Dent]

'Kay, Gilda.

I have a sincere question that I hope everyone here is mature enough to treat with some decorum.

If a pre-op transexual man marries a woman, his gender can be legally changed, yes? And the marriage is still recognized?

I'm assuming you mean an MTF transsexual who is married while still physically and legally male, and transitions while still married. Most marriages don't survive the transition, though a small number do. In general, the couple is still legally married, even following the legal change of sex, creating, in effect, a legal same-sex marriage. It's possible that defense of marriage amendments will prevent their marriages from being recognized, but there's yet to be a test case, and nobody I know of wants to be that test case and risk their marriage, so for now, such marriages are legal.

There is a possible legal loophole for post ops who are residents of Texas, Kansas, or Florida, where legal sex-changes aren't recognized, thus, post-op transwomen are considered legally male, and thus can marry natal women.

I ask because on the subject of "gay marriage", it seems to me that in spite of the heat over the issue, there are legally recognized, legally "same gender" marriages.

Yes, though the number is very small, as most marriages don't survive the transition. Either the biological woman will leave the marriage for obvious reasons, or the transwoman will, or they will part ways my mutual agreement.

Gilda

[Solaris]

I think it's up to the individuals involved, and no one else's concern. :)

[DarkBlade]

My wife has not "taken" my last name. I don't blame her. She's still Lisly Córdova Quintal -on her bank account, car ownership papers and the like- and she sometimes unofficially goes by "Mrs. Santa Cruz Polanco".

Regarding kids, we have no problems here. Your full name has the combination of your father and mother's surnames. You carry your dad's surname as your first surname, and then your mother's as the second one.
So, I'm Antonio Ramon (first and second names) Santa Cruz Polanco (my dad's surname) Cabrales (my mom's...we were lucky. My cousin's second surname is also a composite one: Ruiz-Esparza...there's never enough room for our full names on official documents and entries).

My kid's surnames are Santa Cruz Polanco Córdova (neat. we didn't neet to change the monogramed robes). Marco's kids will carry the family name, Bárbara's won't, because the mother's surname is always left out.

Of course, then you run into people here stateside (or if you haven't yet, are likely to) who will say "Mr. Cabrales" instead of "Mr. Santa Cruz Polanco" For the most part, it's assumed (unless there is a hyphen) that the last word on the name is the surname.

Unless it's a CBRian, in which case we'll just call you Guapo. ^_^

[Sir Tim Drake]

One, they don't really "honor" the peyote ceremonies. (Ie: You can be arrested or fired for possesion, even if you are a member of the church. And you have no right for ceremonies in prison.)

Two, Native laws have no impact on American laws. We're different "nations" in that respect, we're just conquered ones. So, while transexual marriages are considered normal, they aren't legally binding to the US, just the tribe.(Note I said transexual, not gay. There is still quite a bit of difference to me and other Natives. The gender change ceremonies aren't casual. In fact, they're our answer to pre surgery times. Which makes me wonder if anyone has ever done a study on transexualism amoungst Natives, given every tribe I know has "codes" for it)

I think there has been a good deal of scholarship on this topic. In my undergraduate theater history course I read an article about "two-spirit" stauts in Native American culture, and I believe this is just the tip of the iceberg. By doing a quick Google search I found this page (http://www.apa.udel.edu/apa/archive/newsletters/v98n2/lgbt/hale.asp) which mentions a few notable works on the subject.

[Sir Tim Drake]

Of course, then you run into people here stateside (or if you haven't yet, are likely to) who will say "Mr. Cabrales" instead of "Mr. Santa Cruz Polanco" For the most part, it's assumed (unless there is a hyphen) that the last word on the name is the surname.

Which would be correct if he were Portuguese or Brazilian. I think.

[Guapo Méndez]

Of course, then you run into people here stateside (or if you haven't yet, are likely to) who will say "Mr. Cabrales" instead of "Mr. Santa Cruz Polanco" For the most part, it's assumed (unless there is a hyphen) that the last word on the name is the surname.

Unless it's a CBRian, in which case we'll just call you Guapo. ^_^


Heh. Thanks.
But there's a lot of mix-ups here as well. Most folks assume "Santa" is not my surname, but my name. Polanco is much more common here, so they think my surnames are "Cruz Polanco". I've had documents wrongly filed under "Santa" "Cruz" "Polanco" and "Cabrales". And I'm not taking into consideration the times they've completely missed my name and file me under "Santamaria", "Santamarina" "Santiesteban" and a whole lot of fun, yet wrong, surnames.

[Citizen V]

I hate adding names on,take the name out or change it.Its rather stupid.

[StoneGold]

I hate adding names on,take the name out or change it.Its rather stupid.
So's leaving out the apostrophe on it's. Its is the possessive form.

[BcAugust]

I think there has been a good deal of scholarship on this topic. In my undergraduate theater history course I read an article about "two-spirit" stauts in Native American culture, and I believe this is just the tip of the iceberg. By doing a quick Google search I found this page (http://www.apa.udel.edu/apa/archive/newsletters/v98n2/lgbt/hale.asp) which mentions a few notable works on the subject.

Thank you. I guess I was mainly wondering because of how...*coughs* edited a lot of Native stuff gets, if they worked on it.

*vividly reminded of the joke sheet my title five teacher gave me*

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

I just assume whoever I marry would take my last name, so I say we outlaw women keeping their madien names just so I don't end up in a big argument about this in the future.

[Shellhead]

There was an episode of Scrubs where Carla tells Turk that she wants to keep her last name when they get married. Turk replies, "That's okay, baby, we can just be one of those couples that don't love each other."

When I was a kid, our next door neighbors were the Mitchells. Then Mrs. Mitchell became a feminist and went back to using her maiden name, which was unfortunately, Twitchell. After that, everybody laughed behind their backs and called them the Twitchell-Mitchells.

[tricksterpup]

Or how about that guy Maurey Chung?
Or how about for Nikki Cox.. Mohr - Cox?