CBR: Hickman Confronts Tomorrow in "Ultimate Comics: The Ultimates"

[CBR News]

In the pages of "Ultimate Comics: The Ultimates," a new global super-power calling themselves the Children of Tomorrow threatens to take over the globe. We spoke with writer Jonathan Hickman about the book.


Full article here (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=36444).

[Drz]

Decent interview. Confirms Falcon and Captain Britain as regular cast members of the title.

[wyokid]

Fascinating. I think I'm gonna start readin secret Warriors to see how Hickman does on this stuff seeing how that's finished.

[superchick]

Thor is in some epic need of cuddles. I called the survivor's guilt thing ;)

[CMBMOOL]

Great insight on the Ultimates, but I am a bit curious as of why Hickman didn't mention Spider-woman nor the return of the Hulk in the article.:frown:

[wyokid]

Great insight on the Ultimates, but I am a bit curious as of why Hickman didn't mention Spider-woman nor the return of the Hulk in the article.:frown:
Hulk is mentioned at the very end.

[5cents]

"We'll get further inside each of the characters' heads. The stuff with Thor is going to be really fascinating. The stuff with Iron Man is very, very interesting as he becomes more important because of his association with the other tastemakers and influence-peddlers in the Kratos Club. The Fury stuff is pretty interesting and Hawkeye continues to be pivotal. Plus, I think people will really get a kick out of our Hulk stuff

Sounds good I like character focus

[Morentez]

My god that article has me excited.

"if you expect Cap to pick up the shield and save the day, that would be unwise."

Curious. Very curious.

[robcastor729]

Fascinating. I think I'm gonna start readin secret Warriors to see how Hickman does on this stuff seeing how that's finished.

His Secret Warriors stuff is really good. I have every issue

[Chaos_Alfa]

Great insight on the Ultimates, but I am a bit curious as of why Hickman didn't mention Spider-woman nor the return of the Hulk in the article.:frown:

I get the feeling Spider-Woman is only on the Ultimates to support Miles story. As long as she making appearances in UCSM I don't mind.

[sage6paths]

Too bad he didn't mention anything of the children vs the people its that they are really trying to keep it in secercy meaning thats its going to be epic. so can anyone else guess who the other characters are "We're talking about a team with Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, Captain Britain and some other characters that will be revealed." Cap America (maybe), falcon, ben grim?, what ever happened to namor?, the wasp revived?.

[Drz]

She-Hulk is one of the characters he talked during the very start of his Ultimates interviews.

[sage6paths]

She-Hulk is one of the characters he talked during the very start of his Ultimates interviews.

ultimate she-hulk is betty right? well this is going to be interesting.

[Chaos_Alfa]

There is also Giant Man (Scott Lang) who is suppose to make an appearance in issue 6.

[Drz]

ultimate she-hulk is betty right? well this is going to be interesting.

Yeah she is. So you basically got a whole team of scientists being the world's greatest champions.


There is also Giant Man (Scott Lang) who is suppose to make an appearance in issue 6.

Ah yeah him too. :) Man i was so happy Mark Millar made a nice scientist guy, not a crack addict (like he originally thought to make) or an sociopath like he writes Reed and Ultimate Pym and Bruce Banner.

[sage6paths]

Yeah she is. So you basically got a whole team of scientists being the world's greatest champions.

Well now that you mention that the ultimates are going to have a lot of scientists. they are probably going to crack the source and defeat richards that way. do you think that if reed richards could cure the hulk and asked banner to join him would he?

[Chaos_Alfa]

Yeah she is. So you basically got a whole team of scientists being the world's greatest champions.

Betty isn't a scientists.

[sage6paths]

Aren't Iron Man and Falcon not the only scientists?

jamie braddok he created the euro super soldier, giant man apparently, betty. and bruce.

[Drz]

Betty isn't a scientists.

Didn't she work even a little on the serum she used on herself on Wolverine vs. the Hulk?

[Chaos_Alfa]

Didn't she work even a little on the serum she used on herself on Wolverine vs. the Hulk?

From what I remember she only stole the serum from Jennifer who did all the work and also Wikipedia says she got a degree in communication not something sciency.

[JBeard]

Betty isn't a scientist. She originally worked for PR for the Ultimates.

[sage6paths]

From what I remember she only stole the serum from Jennifer Susan Walters who did all the work. Wikipedia says she got a degree in communication.

now that you mention it i think your right i seem to remember her being fury's secretary. but either way the ultimates have a lot of scientists.

[Drz]

From what I remember she only stole the serum from Jennifer who did all the work

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-g1tICB6XFjE/TuHh9GBlv8I/AAAAAAAADLg/B3fO8ry2tjc/s1600/Okay_guy.jpg

[Morentez]

So, The Ultimates:

Nick Fury
Captain Ameria
Thor
Iron Man
Bruce Banner/ The Hulk
Hawkeye
Captain Britain
Falcon
Spider-Woman
She-Hulk
Black Widow (Chang)
Giant Man (Lang)


Damn! That's a brilliant line-up. Especially when you consider how different they all are to their 616 counterparts.

(Did I forget anyone?)

[sage6paths]

So, The Ultimates:

Nick Fury
Captain Ameria
Thor
Iron Man
Bruce Banner/ The Hulk
Hawkeye
Captain Britain
Falcon
Spider-Woman
She-Hulk
Black Widow (Chang)
Giant Man (Lang)


Damn! That's a brilliant line-up. Especially when you consider how different they all are to their 616 counterparts.

(Did I forget anyone?)

i think you got it right but i can never tell if black widow 2 is ultimates or the leader of avengers.

[Drz]

i think you got it right but i can never tell if black widow 2 is ultimates or the leader of avengers.

Both. Hawkeye and Captain America do (or well for Cap, did) Black Ops missions as well.

[Morentez]

i think you got it right but i can never tell if black widow 2 is ultimates or the leader of avengers.

She was on the helicarrier during the battle with The Children. In fact I think it was her that told Nick to order the retreat?

[Sinx]

This has gotten me so excited for the series in 2012. This is going to be a great year.

[Samorai_black]

The Ultimate universe feels so huge in scope and most of it is coming from one book.

Im not a fan of Captian Britain but the way he has been added to the story is really well done. I am really happy to read that Falcon will be a main member of the team, I though something bad would happen to him soon becuase of where he is.

2012 is going to be great for the Ultimates cant wait.

[Trevor M.]

This article makes me want to break my trade wait rule with the Ultimates. But the stories look so go. We have SHIELD possibly falling, Europe and the US merging, Captain America not being on the team.

This is all going to be so very awesome.

[Time_to_Zap]

Is it whiny of me if I demand to know when we shall find out about this Jocasta Program? I want Janet back. :mad:

But other than that, it all sounds fantastic. Hickman sounds like a phenomenal writer, can't wait to get the first story arc in trade.

[Plawsky]

As always, Hickman sets himself up for awesomeness. It's great to see that the Ultimates finally have a long-term planner at the helm again. It's also great to know that Hickman agrees that Ultimate Thor was much better in his original incarnation.

[Kurolegacy]

Is it whiny of me if I demand to know when we shall find out about this Jocasta Program? I want Janet back. :mad:

But other than that, it all sounds fantastic. Hickman sounds like a phenomenal writer, can't wait to get the first story arc in trade.I won't call it whiny if you don't call it whiny that I want an explanation for what happened to Reed between Ultimatum and Ultimate Doomsday to warp him so much.

Though I gotta say, it seems Captain Britain's getting quite some spotlight no matter what universe he's in what with joining the Ultimates in the UU, and getting an arc in X-Force and joining the Secret Avengers in 616.

[Wolverine12]

Most excited to hear Falcon is going to be a regular.

[wyokid]

I won't call it whiny if you don't call it whiny that I want an explanation for what happened to Reed between Ultimatum and Ultimate Doomsday to warp him so much.

During Ultimatum Reed went after Namor thinking he cause the wave only to learn that Doom was behind it all and he figured out in the Requiem issue in order to save the world you must rid it of parasites (the whole "kill Hitler before the war" speech). I can't think of a bigger parasite on Earth than mankind.

[Kurolegacy]

During Ultimatum Reed went after Namor thinking he cause the wave only to learn that Doom was behind it all and he figured out in the Requiem issue in order to save the world you must rid it of parasites (the whole "kill Hitler before the war" speech). I can't think of a bigger parasite on Earth than mankind.Yea but there's a fine line between Doom who was an active parasite and finding mankind as a whole a parasite. That and that Reed couldn't bring himself to take Doom's life back then yet suddenly killing is perfectly fine now. Something's gotta happen to a person for them to just snap like that.

[wyokid]

Yea but there's a fine line between Doom who was an active parasite and finding mankind as a whole a parasite. That and that Reed couldn't bring himself to take Doom's life back then yet suddenly killing is perfectly fine now. Something's gotta happen to a person for them to just snap like that.

It was your favorite character that did it.

[MrV]

Is it whiny of me if I demand to know when we shall find out about this Jocasta Program? I want Janet back. :mad:

But other than that, it all sounds fantastic. Hickman sounds like a phenomenal writer, can't wait to get the first story arc in trade.

Speaking of Jocasta, there are some things they left forgotten.


Legacy Virus cure which Henry McCoy was working on
Ultimate Vision trying to leave Earth to take the blueprints for the Ultimate Nullifier to other worlds so they can fight Gah Lak Tus
We never saw what happened to Geldoff after being presented to the U.N.
Mysterio being an android controlled by someone else
The demons that escaped Doctor Strange's Sanctum Sanctorum during Ultimatum
The mysterious man who took Strange's corpse (betting it was his dad)
Hawk-Owl and Woody
What became of Beetle and Venom after Ultimatum, which destroyed Latveria. Did they freeze to death?

[Kurolegacy]

It was your favorite character that did it.Ultimate form of Nice Job Breaking it Hero. Driving Reed over the edge, by association, she destroyed Europe.

[wyokid]

Speaking of Jocasta, there are some things they left forgotten.


Legacy Virus cure which Henry McCoy was working on
Ultimate Vision trying to leave Earth to take the blueprints for the Ultimate Nullifier to other worlds so they can fight Gah Lak Tus
We never saw what happened to Geldoff after being presented to the U.N.
Mysterio being an android controlled by someone else
The demons that escaped Doctor Strange's Sanctum Sanctorum during Ultimatum
The mysterious man who took Strange's corpse (betting it was his dad)
Hawk-Owl and Woody
What became of Beetle and Venom after Ultimatum, which destroyed Latveria. Did they freeze to death?


Jeez, what a whiner :evilsmile::tongue:

Also wasn't the Vision thing dealt with in Ultimate Vision? Been a LONG time since I read it.


Ultimate form of Nice Job Breaking it Hero. Driving Reed over the edge, by association, she destroyed Europe.

You are talking about Sue Storm here right?

[MrV]

Also wasn't the Vision thing dealt with in Ultimate Vision? Been a LONG time since I read it.


The ending to Ultimate Vision was that she had opted to stay at Sam Wilson (Falcon)'s apartment. It didn't say she left Earth.

That is why now I'm expecting Hickman to show her since she had been rooming with Falcon all this time.

[Plawsky]

That is why now I'm expecting Hickman to show her since she had been rooming with Falcon all this time.

And I've been waiting to read that story for years. I can't wait.

[Kurolegacy]

You are talking about Sue Storm here right?Yes, yes I am.

[MrV]

And I've been waiting to read that story for years. I can't wait.

Likewise! I also wish they do another Ultimate Fantastic Four series with Sue, Ben and two other characters (hoping for Captain Mahr-Vehl and Miles Morales).

I loved the original series, it was clever and smart (except for Issues #21-23 and #30-32, all that super hero ghoul nonsense was stupid). I loved almost every story arc, even the one with Ultimate Diablo and Ultimate Red Ghost and Crimson Dynamo.

The Salem's Seven story arc was ingenious! I never expected Agatha Harkness to be the Hydra monster that destroyed Atlantis.

[Morentez]

Likewise! I also wish they do another Ultimate Fantastic Four series with Sue, Ben and two other characters (hoping for Captain Mahr-Vehl and Miles Morales).

I loved the original series, it was clever and smart (except for Issues #21-23 and #30-32, all that super hero ghoul nonsense was stupid). I loved almost every story arc, even the one with Ultimate Diablo and Ultimate Red Ghost and Crimson Dynamo.

The Salem's Seven story arc was ingenious! I never expected Agatha Harkness to be the Hydra monster that destroyed Atlantis.

Miles has his own book and doesn't fit the FF dynamic... Rick Jones/ Nova would be a much better fit and he already has links to Sue, Ben and Mahr Vel. (IF it were those 4 I would buy the crap out of that book!)

[horsehead]

Is it whiny of me if I demand to know when we shall find out about this Jocasta Program? I want Janet back. :mad:

But other than that, it all sounds fantastic. Hickman sounds like a phenomenal writer, can't wait to get the first story arc in trade.

I loved the Pym's but I'd rather they left Janet dead, I hate resurrections, they just cheapen the death. I'd much rather see Red Wasp used


Most excited to hear Falcon is going to be a regular.

Yeah, brilliant news although I guess it means he won't be in the Ultimate Cosmic/Fantastic ongoing I was hoping for along with Danvers, Sue, Ben, Nova & Marh Vehl


The ending to Ultimate Vision was that she had opted to stay at Sam Wilson (Falcon)'s apartment. It didn't say she left Earth.

That is why now I'm expecting Hickman to show her since she had been rooming with Falcon all this time.

I haven't read this for a while but I just recall it implying that as soon as she was ready she'd be off with details on how to defeat Gah Lak Tus. I only ever want her to return if Gah Lak Tus is as well, it would be a bit rubbish if it turned out she stayed to have a relationship with Sam rather than try and save all those other lives

[MrV]

I haven't read this for a while but I just recall it implying that as soon as she was ready she'd be off with details on how to defeat Gah Lak Tus. I only ever want her to return if Gah Lak Tus is as well, it would be a bit rubbish if it turned out she stayed to have a relationship with Sam rather than try and save all those other lives

In terms of story it hasn't really been that long since the Gah Lak Tus incident, a year at most.

I checked again, it didn't imply she left. It showed her being sad at losing her android friend Dima, and how she couldn't leave Earth and Sam Wilson gave her the keys to his place. I guess the fight against A.I.M. left her weak or damaged. She did get blasted by the Gah Lak Tus module at the end of Issue #1.

[Whitster]

I won't call it whiny if you don't call it whiny that I want an explanation for what happened to Reed between Ultimatum and Ultimate Doomsday to warp him so much.

I think it was more a build up of things happening than one event. I recently brought up and read all of UFF as it was the one series I hadn't picked up back in the original UU run. Even in that you can see that Ultimate Reed had a vicious streak when he knew he was right, and his frustration with his scientific endevours always being warped for military use was apparent from issue one. I guess the rejection by Sue and events of Ultimatium were what pushed him over the edge, and his arrogance told him he had to "solve everything" which seems to be a point that all multiversal Reeds hit at some point.

[MrV]

I think it was more a build up of things happening than one event. I recently brought up and read all of UFF as it was the one series I hadn't picked up back in the original UU run. Even in that you can see that Ultimate Reed had a vicious streak when he knew he was right, and his frustration with his scientific endevours always being warped for military use was apparent from issue one. I guess the rejection by Sue and events of Ultimatium were what pushed him over the edge, and his arrogance told him he had to "solve everything" which seems to be a point that all multiversal Reeds hit at some point.

Ditto. Also, in the Doomsday Trilogy they show in flashbacks how Reed for a while during the career of the Fantastic Four had been distanced from humanity and was not comfortable with the current status quo. So it was build up. :smile:

[hunter_peterson]

Yeah, I LOVED the way Bendis utilized the flashbacks in Ultimate Comics: Doom. Some of them being actually from his first arc on UFF was really cool, as it re-framed the whole series (in particular those moments) in a sinister way. That, and it was basically Bendis pointing at accidental foreshadowing.

I can't wait for the next issue of Ultimates! Hickman's run is already amazing, can't wait to see him use all those cool concepts that have laid unused in the Ultimate U!

[wyokid]

I still say Bendis planned to turn Reed evil from the beginning. All of the flashbacks where from stories he worked on. Plus he planted stuff for Secret Invasion way back with New Avengers #1.

[Whitster]

I still say Bendis planned to turn Reed evil from the beginning. All of the flashbacks where from stories he worked on. Plus he planted stuff for Secret Invasion way back with New Avengers #1.

He and Millar definately planted the seeds for it in that first arc, I doubt he planned to be the one to take it to conclusion at the time as he didn't know when he would next be writing the character then.

[Balfro]

I like how Jamie is Now an official member of the Ultimates. That's two former EDI members on the team now. It should make for some interesting arguments since I'm sure him and Steven will be gunning for leadership position, or at least seniority in Captaincy.

[Wolverine12]

I like how Jamie is Now an official member of the Ultimates. That's two former EDI members on the team now. It should make for some interesting arguments since I'm sure him and Steven will be gunning for leadership position, or at least seniority in Captaincy.

Who's the other EDI member? Thor??

[Chaos_Alfa]

Who's the other EDI member? Thor??

Thor indeed.

[Kurolegacy]

I like how Jamie is Now an official member of the Ultimates. That's two former EDI members on the team now. It should make for some interesting arguments since I'm sure him and Steven will be gunning for leadership position, or at least seniority in Captaincy.Here's hoping that this means big things for him and that they don't have him succumb to cancer or death like Brian and Psylocke. The UU has been anything but kind to the Braddock family.:frown:

[Robbie_Jee]

I'm really happy about Captain Britain becoming a full time member of The Ultimates. Big thanks to Hickman for biggin up the UK. I can't wait to see my country in ruins in the next issue, Jamie realising his home is destroyed and must now seek out and punish those responsible. And along side that we also get to see Sam Wilson on his recon mission within the City walls. This month's issue is going to be incredible!! I can't wait.


Yea but there's a fine line between Doom who was an active parasite and finding mankind as a whole a parasite. That and that Reed couldn't bring himself to take Doom's life back then yet suddenly killing is perfectly fine now. Something's gotta happen to a person for them to just snap like that.

He got his heart broken.
There's also the fact that he wants to make the world a better place.

[PhilUrich'sFlamingSword]

Is it whiny of me if I demand to know when we shall find out about this Jocasta Program? I want Janet back. :mad:

But other than that, it all sounds fantastic. Hickman sounds like a phenomenal writer, can't wait to get the first story arc in trade.

I doubt we'll get her back in the strictest sense, but I wouldn't be surprised if we get an Ultimatized version of Jocasta at some point (a synthezoid with Janet's brain patterns as a base).


Likewise! I also wish they do another Ultimate Fantastic Four series with Sue, Ben and two other characters (hoping for Captain Mahr-Vehl and Miles Morales).

I loved the original series, it was clever and smart (except for Issues #21-23 and #30-32, all that super hero ghoul nonsense was stupid). I loved almost every story arc, even the one with Ultimate Diablo and Ultimate Red Ghost and Crimson Dynamo.

The Salem's Seven story arc was ingenious! I never expected Agatha Harkness to be the Hydra monster that destroyed Atlantis.

I agree in hoping that there's eventually a new Ultimate FF, but you thought the 'super-hero ghoul' story (AKA the Marvel Zombies) was bad? Huh. Different tastes, I guess. Those were some of my favorite issues of the original series.


Miles has his own book and doesn't fit the FF dynamic... Rick Jones/ Nova would be a much better fit and he already has links to Sue, Ben and Mahr Vel. (IF it were those 4 I would buy the crap out of that book!)

That is an absolutely perfect lineup. Here I was wondering why Mahr-Vell wasn't on the Ultimates, since we know he's around somewhere, Fury trusts him, and he's got a great power-set, plus the intelligence and savvy he'd bring. Having said that, I could see him developing a real cool dynamic with Sue, Ben and Rick. Rick's character needs to be explored more anyway, and he does have a history with the former FF through Ultimate Doom.

[Morentez]

That is an absolutely perfect lineup. Here I was wondering why Mahr-Vell wasn't on the Ultimates, since we know he's around somewhere, Fury trusts him, and he's got a great power-set, plus the intelligence and savvy he'd bring. Having said that, I could see him developing a real cool dynamic with Sue, Ben and Rick. Rick's character needs to be explored more anyway, and he does have a history with the former FF through Ultimate Doom.


I always tought the new FF should be Sue, Ben, Mahr Vel, and Rick. Based at project pegasus, investigating what all the weird tech actually does! The facility also needs better security after the three (?) times it's been compromised.

I think having Danvers there too would be a good use of her character, because you can't exactly fire an ex head of SHIELD can you? Not with all the secrets she knows, so you just assign her a place as far away from anything as you can get :)

[horsehead]

I always tought the new FF should be Sue, Ben, Mahr Vel, and Rick. Based at project pegasus, investigating what all the weird tech actually does! The facility also needs better security after the three (?) times it's been compromised.

I think having Danvers there too would be a good use of her character, because you can't exactly fire an ex head of SHIELD can you? Not with all the secrets she knows, so you just assign her a place as far away from anything as you can get :)

Plus Danvers and Mahr Vehl used to have a relationship so that would be interesting dynamics

I'd really like to see three SHEILD teams all reporting into Fury:
The Ultimates led by Tony with Thor, Cap A, Cap B, Hulk, Spider-Woman, Scott Lang
The Avengers led by Monica with War Machine, Red Wasp, Falcon, Hawkeye
Project Pegasus led by Danvers with Ben, Sue, Nova, Mahr Vehl

[Morentez]

Plus Danvers and Mahr Vehl used to have a relationship so that would be interesting dynamics

I'd really like to see three SHEILD teams all reporting into Fury:
The Ultimates led by Tony with Thor, Cap A, Cap B, Hulk, Spider-Woman, Scott Lang
The Avengers led by Monica with War Machine, Red Wasp, Falcon, Hawkeye
Project Pegasus led by Danvers with Ben, Sue, Nova, Mahr Vehl

Exactly :) Although I feel Avengers could easily be part of Ultimates. It uses so many of the same characters.

[horsehead]

Part of me also thinks that Jessica would be more suited to the Pegasus team than the Ultimates

[PhilUrich'sFlamingSword]

I always tought the new FF should be Sue, Ben, Mahr Vel, and Rick. Based at project pegasus, investigating what all the weird tech actually does! The facility also needs better security after the three (?) times it's been compromised.

I think having Danvers there too would be a good use of her character, because you can't exactly fire an ex head of SHIELD can you? Not with all the secrets she knows, so you just assign her a place as far away from anything as you can get :)

I like this, too. Plus, this iteration of the FF could definitely hold up to the more 'scientific explorer' aspect of the original team, as opposed to being a straight super-hero outfit. Between Mahr-Vell and Sue Storm, they'd have the brains department covered.


Part of me also thinks that Jessica would be more suited to the Pegasus team than the Ultimates

I thought this too at first, given her sciency brain as well as presumably sharing Peter's friendly feelings towards the FF as a concept, and she still hasn't recieved anything close to a defining scene in Ultimates. That said, I liked her in the brief battle against the children, and loved the scene with her finding Fury's note in # 5, even though they were brief snippets, and I do have faith that Hickman will use her as more than just mere eye candy going forward. As someone said earlier, she appears in Ultimate Spidey too, so it's cool as far as I'm concerned.

[notcaldi]

I won't call it whiny if you don't call it whiny that I want an explanation for what happened to Reed between Ultimatum and Ultimate Doomsday to warp him so much.

I agree. After reading this post I have spent the last few days re-reading all the UFF, Ultimatum, and the Doom trilogy and there is no explanation on how Reed turns.

My main problem is the Doom trilogy. And I am a Bendis fan. Basically Bendis decided that: Reed made mistakes+Reed feels remorseful about mistakes=him turning into a psychopath.

Why did Reed attack his parents and then tell his family not to answer the door. Its not like there would be witnesses from his family to say "Well he tried to stop dad from answering the door."

We still don't know why he attacked the smart people of the world if he wants science reign supreme over the world. Reed said he wanted a better world where scientist were more important than heros but then why attack all the scientists?

Why did he tell Susan he did not attack his parents and everyone?

What is Reed's endgame? He wants a world with no cruelty or evil but is fine killing his family and civilians.

Why did Reed tell Ben that he cured him? Did he expect the attack to force Ben to evolve to what he is now?

Reed was attacked and never allowed to explain? It just seemed out of character for Susan and Ben to attack first without listening or trying to figure out why their former lover/best friend had become a bad guy.

And it does seem odd that a few of the posters on here who cry the loudest about Loeb's writing characters out of sorts without explanations are fine with Reed seeming out of character.

With 12 issues Bendis could have given a reason why Reed turned evil. Instead where left to just wonder why.

That being said out of frustration, I am really enjoying what Hickman is doing. I'm loving the Ultimate universe right now. However, I would still like a reason why Reed tried to kill family and friends,

The only possible explanation I can come up with is when Reed and Doom switched places and Doom went into the Zombieverse, they never switched back to their original bodies.

Oh my God. Evil Reed has turned me into a fan boy.:frown:

[Kurolegacy]

I agree. After reading this post I have spent the last few days re-reading all the UFF, Ultimatum, and the Doom trilogy and there is no explanation on how Reed turns.

My main problem is the Doom trilogy. And I am a Bendis fan. Basically Bendis decided that: Reed made mistakes+Reed feels remorseful about mistakes=him turning into a psychopath.

Why did Reed attack his parents and then tell his family not to answer the door. Its not like there would be witnesses from his family to say "Well he tried to stop dad from answering the door."

We still don't know why he attacked the smart people of the world if he wants science reign supreme over the world. Reed said he wanted a better world where scientist were more important than heros but then why attack all the scientists?

Why did he tell Susan he did not attack his parents and everyone?

What is Reed's endgame? He wants a world with no cruelty or evil but is fine killing his family and civilians.

Why did Reed tell Ben that he cured him? Did he expect the attack to force Ben to evolve to what he is now?

Reed was attacked and never allowed to explain? It just seemed out of character for Susan and Ben to attack first without listening or trying to figure out why their former lover/best friend had become a bad guy.

And it does seem odd that a few of the posters on here who cry the loudest about Loeb's writing characters out of sorts without explanations are fine with Reed seeming out of character.

With 12 issues Bendis could have given a reason why Reed turned evil. Instead where left to just wonder why.

That being said out of frustration, I am really enjoying what Hickman is doing. I'm loving the Ultimate universe right now. However, I would still like a reason why Reed tried to kill family and friends,

The only possible explanation I can come up with is when Reed and Doom switched places and Doom went into the Zombieverse, they never switched back to their original bodies.

Oh my God. Evil Reed has turned me into a fan boy.:frown:You know what makes the whole attack on scientific minds part of Ultimate Doomsday make even less sense? Based on the Preview of Ultimate Comics: The Ultimates #6, Reed clearly still respects scientific minds. So what was the reason for this then?

[sage6paths]

You know what makes the whole attack on scientific minds part of Ultimate Doomsday make even less sense? Based on the Preview of Ultimate Comics: The Ultimates #6, Reed clearly still respects scientific minds. So what was the reason for this then?

He wants to show off and tell everyone that he is right all along.

[notcaldi]

He wants to show off and tell everyone that he is right all along.

But again, this is not the Reed that we have known. He says he wants a world where science is the backbone of society so he goes after all the scientists of this world? This whole theory that he wants to prove he is right comes for Ult Doc Ock. We have no idea what Reed's motives are because before he could explain himself he is attacked by Susan/Ben/Spidey and the Ultimates.

How is he proving he is right to Roxxon when he blows the building to the ground. And remember he said he was not behind the attacks on the Baxter/Roxxon/Peter's house. Its Doc Ock who said he was taken out scientists who could stop him. We have no idea what Reed is thinking.

[sage6paths]

But again, this is not the Reed that we have known. He says he wants a world where science is the backbone of society so he goes after all the scientists of this world? This whole theory that he wants to prove he is right comes for Ult Doc Ock. We have no idea what Reed's motives are because before he could explain himself he is attacked by Susan/Ben/Spidey and the Ultimates.

How is he proving he is right to Roxxon when he blows the building to the ground. And remember he said he was not behind the attacks on the Baxter/Roxxon/Peter's house. Its Doc Ock who said he was taken out scientists who could stop him. We have no idea what Reed is thinking.

Read Ultimate Comics: ultiamtes #4 after he is done beating up Thor he says tell them I was right".

[notcaldi]

Read Ultimate Comics: ultiamtes #4 after he is done beating up Thor he says tell them I was right".

Fair enough. My point being the way his turn was written we still do not see a catalyst for his heel turn. And we still do not know what it is he was "right" about. He never had the chance to explain what he was doing. He never got to say what he was trying to do or trying to create except flashbacks of him saying he wanted a better world. I may have missed it. And I will re-read the Ultimates when I get home.

Again, I love what Hickman is doing with the threads left. I am more frustrated by the lack of explanation for Reed becoming a bad guy.

[sage6paths]

Fair enough. My point being the way his turn was written we still do not see a catalyst for his heel turn. And we still do not know what it is he was "right" about. He never had the chance to explain what he was doing. He never got to say what he was trying to do or trying to create except flashbacks of him saying he wanted a better world. I may have missed it. And I will re-read the Ultimates when I get home.

Again, I love what Hickman is doing with the threads left. I am more frustrated by the lack of explanation for Reed becoming a bad guy.

Well its not that he has become a bad guy or even insane. He see's everything differently through his eyes everyone else is the bad guy.

I am not sure if reed is really insane or he is just too smart. just imagine someone from the future with 100000x intelligence then you and you talk to him and you would find that the views on right and wrong is so different and you start wondering if everyone is insane. same thing with reed. you would think if the children or the city were so smart they would find something abnormal in is brain.

[Morentez]

You know what makes the whole attack on scientific minds part of Ultimate Doomsday make even less sense? Based on the Preview of Ultimate Comics: The Ultimates #6, Reed clearly still respects scientific minds. So what was the reason for this then?

Trial and error. Attacking the scientific community didn't work because it rallied geniuses against him. It's a scientific process in a way.

Lets face it, The City is a TOTALLY different approach to changing the world than Doomsday.

[Balfro]

I still think that Bendis had a different plan in place when he started the trilogy but changed it half-way through once Death of Spider-Man was confirmed at Marvel, or perhaps some other element caused the change. The ending seemed so slapped together. Now Hickman is just playing off of it as best he can.

Of course, I could be wrong. Either way I'm happy with both the Trilogy and the current Ultimates story. Reed as a villain is really great.

[Fizicks]

With 12 issues Bendis could have given a reason why Reed turned evil. Instead where left to just wonder why.

That being said out of frustration, I am really enjoying what Hickman is doing. I'm loving the Ultimate universe right now. However, I would still like a reason why Reed tried to kill family and friends,

The only possible explanation I can come up with is when Reed and Doom switched places and Doom went into the Zombieverse, they never switched back to their original bodies.

Oh my God. Evil Reed has turned me into a fan boy.:frown:

I agree. Too many plot holes were left unexplained.
I think Bendis should have spent more time letting Reed explain his motives and endgame, instead of spending so much time on flashbacks where he was abused. The way Bendis presented it made it seem like the main reason Reed did this was to get revenge on the world for the abuse it did to him, instead of the fact that he wanted to better the world.

Oh, and the Reed+Doom switched bodies is not a valid explanation. Before they attack Reed, Ben asked Reed a question about their childhood and Reed answered it correctly. Doom wouldn't have been able to answer that.



You know what makes the whole attack on scientific minds part of Ultimate Doomsday make even less sense? Based on the Preview of Ultimate Comics: The Ultimates #6, Reed clearly still respects scientific minds. So what was the reason for this then?

I think the most plausible reason for Reed to have attacked all those scientific minds was because he felt science was misused by the people in his world- as he puts it, a world "completely ruined by the systematic raping of science".



And remember he said he was not behind the attacks on the Baxter/Roxxon/Peter's house.
I don't recall this part. Where does it say that?


I still think that Bendis had a different plan in place when he started the trilogy but changed it half-way through once Death of Spider-Man was confirmed at Marvel, or perhaps some other element caused the change. The ending seemed so slapped together. Now Hickman is just playing off of it as best he can.

Of course, I could be wrong. Either way I'm happy with both the Trilogy and the current Ultimates story. Reed as a villain is really great.

I felt that way too. I asked Bendis however on his forums and he said Reed was the planned villain all along.

His words:

"Nope. that was the pitch as written and accepted i am happy to say. very happy about how it all came together, thanks for reading it."

So Reed was the planned villain all along, however the endgame might have been presented in a different way originally.

[Robbie_Jee]

Fair enough. My point being the way his turn was written we still do not see a catalyst for his heel turn. And we still do not know what it is he was "right" about. He never had the chance to explain what he was doing. He never got to say what he was trying to do or trying to create except flashbacks of him saying he wanted a better world. I may have missed it. And I will re-read the Ultimates when I get home.

Again, I love what Hickman is doing with the threads left. I am more frustrated by the lack of explanation for Reed becoming a bad guy.

The catalyst is his broken heart. The motive is his logical decision to make the world a better place.

I'd be up for conquering the world. If one man becomes the ruler of the world then there is world peace and wealth can then be shared equally throughout the world, ending the conflict between capitalism and communism.

[Runguy]

I'm still kinda new to the UU, what is the "serum" that was referenced earlier in the thread ?

[Definite21]

I always tought the new FF should be Sue, Ben, Mahr Vel, and Rick. Based at project pegasus, investigating what all the weird tech actually does! The facility also needs better security after the three (?) times it's been compromised.

I think having Danvers there too would be a good use of her character, because you can't exactly fire an ex head of SHIELD can you? Not with all the secrets she knows, so you just assign her a place as far away from anything as you can get :)

this is an awesome idea