How do you feel about the UU bringing back the Scarlet Witch?

[Wolverine12]

If Marvel was to actually bring back the Scarlet Witch for real, and not make her just a figment of Pietro's imagination how would you feel about it? I'm talking about a full on break of the dead means dead rule.

Personally I would have mixed emotions. I'd be mad that it took so many years to finally get the ball rolling but I'd be happy because the door would officially be open for some others to come back.

[wyokid]

I'd quit the line, especially since Nick Spencer said that no one will be coming back to life on his watch.

[Balfro]

If Marvel was to actually bring back the Scarlet Witch for real, and not make her just a figment of Pietro's imagination how would you feel about it? I'm talking about a full on break of the dead means dead rule.

Personally I would have mixed emotions. I'd be mad that it took so many years to finally get the ball rolling but I'd be happy because the door would officially be open for some others to come back.

There's only a handful of characters that can realistically come back (I mean, as far as realism in comic books go...) and Wanda is one of them. Same goes for Stephan Strange Jr. Their magic, or whatever you wanna call it, can easily lead to some sort of resurrection, though I'd hope it would have side-effects like they came back without their soul (a'la Supernatural) or they are now evil (I've said it before and I'll say it again: Nega-Witch).

That being said, I'll go ahead and state that even if she were to come back, that in no way "gets the ball rolling" or "opens the door" as you put it. Wanda has a means to come back. Hardly anyone else does.



I'd quit the line.

Yeah... Uh huh. I'm sure you would... :cool:

[Wolverine12]

There's only a handful of characters that can realistically come back (I mean, as far as realism in comic books go...) and Wanda is one of them. Same goes for Stephan Strange Jr. Their magic, or whatever you wanna call it, can easily lead to some sort of resurrection, though I'd hope it would have side-effects like they came back without their soul (a'la Supernatural) or they are now evil (I've said it before and I'll say it again: Nega-Witch).

That being said, I'll go ahead and state that even if she were to come back, that in no way "gets the ball rolling" or "opens the door" as you put it. Wanda has a means to come back. Hardly anyone else does.




Yeah... Uh huh. I'm sure you would... :cool:

If they can come back via magic than so can anyone else, just pull everyone we saw in Valhalla back to earth. Besides its comics, the ball would be rolling.

[Balfro]

If they can come back via magic than so can anyone else, just pull everyone we saw in Valhalla back to earth. Besides its comics, the ball would be rolling.

When I say magic I don't mean someone is casting a spell that revives them. I mean something more along the lines of Wanda's magic is so powerful that even in death a faint glimmer of her aura still exists within her body, slowly building strength until she simply comes back to life, or as close to life as she can be.

Someone like, oh say, Wolverine, doesn't have magic in his body. Come to think of it... he doesn't even have a body.

[Kurolegacy]

When I say magic I don't mean someone is casting a spell that revives them. I mean something more along the lines of Wanda's magic is so powerful that even in death a faint glimmer of her aura still exists within her body, slowly building strength until she simply comes back to life, or as close to life as she can be.

Someone like, oh say, Wolverine, doesn't have magic in his body. Come to think of it... he doesn't even have a body.

Give that arm of his to Wanda and she'll find a cell they can bring him back with. She does have a power over probability. She transformed Lobgshot into a cat, I'm sure she could make something of that arm.

[wyokid]

Give that arm of his to Wanda and she'll find a cell they can bring him back with. She does have a power over probability. She transformed Lobgshot into a cat, I'm sure she could make something of that arm.
No cells. S.H.I.E.L.D. checked.

[Samorai_black]

I would be done with the Ultimate Universe.

[wyokid]

I would be done with the Ultimate Universe.
I am not alone :cool:

[Kurolegacy]

No cells. S.H.I.E.L.D. checked.

She summoned dinosaurs and turned a man into a cat. Never doubt the powers of the Scarlet Witch :cool:.

[Trevor M.]

Dead means dead. It's one of the cornerstones of Ultimate Marvel.

[Kurolegacy]

Dead means dead. It's one of the cornerstones of Ultimate Marvel.

Tell that to Osborn, he didn't seem to get the memo.

[Trevor M.]

Tell that to Osborn, he didn't seem to get the memo.Ultimate Goblin Serum?

[wyokid]

Tell that to Osborn, he didn't seem to get the memo.
Sure I'll go to his grave and tell him.

[Chaos_Alfa]

I hope she isn't really returning. I like her more as a figment of Pietro's imagination and it would break the "dead means dead" rule again.

[Kurolegacy]

Sure I'll go to his grave and tell him.

Until I see a death certificate and them destroying the body, I'm not believing that he's dead for good. He came back from being shot in the face with witnesses when he wanted to die. He just doesn't stay dead.

[wyokid]

Until I see a death certificate and them destroying the body, I'm not believing that he's dead for good. He came back from being shot in the face with witnesses when he wanted to die. He just doesn't stay dead.
It was Death of a Goblin not Death of the Goblins. Singular not plural. Add that to me thinking he never died and it means he was never dead.

[Trevor M.]

Until I see a death certificate and them destroying the body, I'm not believing that he's dead for good. He came back from being shot in the face with witnesses when he wanted to die. He just doesn't stay dead.He didn't die from the shot to the face he just went into a regenerative coma in which his body healed itself, kinda like him in 616.

[Kurolegacy]

He didn't die from the shot to the face he just went into a regenerative coma in which his body healed itself, kinda like him in 616.

By that logic, he's probably gonna come back again. But either way, when you have someone who's that much of a danger, you get rid of them before they can become more of a menace. I mean look at Fury, he tried getting rid of the Hulk by nuking him in human form. There was no reason to have just taken him in or ensure he stay alive. If anything, he had proven to be a threat that needed to be dealt with.

[Trevor M.]

By that logic, he's probably gonna come back again. But either way, when you have someone who's that much of a danger, you get rid of them before they can become more of a menace. I mean look at Fury, he tried getting rid of the Hulk by nuking him in human form. There was no reason to have just taken him in or ensure he stay alive. If anything, he had proven to be a threat that needed to be dealt with.There's a difference in between being shot in the face and being smashed by a truck and having it explode on you.

The whole keeping bad guys alive thing was explained by Fury in Ultimate Six.

[Time_to_Zap]

No cells. S.H.I.E.L.D. checked.

But isn't there a bone in that arm? That was what confused me...The adamantium was coating Wolverine's bones, so if the adamantium is still in that shape, surely there's still some marrow within?

[wyokid]

But isn't there a bone in that arm? That was what confused me...The adamantium was coating Wolverine's bones, so if the adamantium is still in that shape, surely there's still some marrow within?
Are you questioning S.H.I.E.L.D.?

[Time_to_Zap]

Are you questioning S.H.I.E.L.D.?

Please don't turn me in to Nick Fury...:eek:

[Kurolegacy]

There's a difference in between being shot in the face and being smashed by a truck and having it explode on you.

The whole keeping bad guys alive thing was explained by Fury in Ultimate Six.Yes, bullets are far more effective on the human body in the UU. But kidding aside, he was in human form when he was shot but goblin form when the truck was slammed on him. While he did revert back to human form, we were shown he was alive after that.


Are you questioning S.H.I.E.L.D.?
Am I questioning the organization that, being led by Carol Danvers at the time, left 6 super powered criminals with a vendetta against a common person wander freely after breaking out? No of course not, wouldn't dream of it.

[Darman456]

Yes, bullets are far more effective on the human body in the UU. But kidding aside, he was in human form when he was shot but goblin form when the truck was slammed on him. While he did revert back to human form, we were shown he was alive after that.


Am I questioning the organization that, being led by Carol Danvers at the time, left 6 super powered criminals with a vendetta against a common person wander freely after breaking out? No of course not, wouldn't dream of it.

I agree. And I'm pretty sure that Fury would've recorded the fact that despite Harry Osborn having OZ in his body, Fury couldn't find it. It is quite obvious that the OZ isn't present in the system. Why doesn't Danvers know what she's doing? (Looks over) Because she's a woman.

[Kurolegacy]

I agree. And I'm pretty sure that Fury would've recorded the fact that despite Harry Osborn having OZ in his body, Fury couldn't find it. It is quite obvious that the OZ isn't present in the system. Why doesn't Danvers know what she's doing? (Looks over) Because she's a woman.

I'd make a dumb blonde comment about her but I don't want to offend any people with blonde hair here. Either way, she's one of the rare Ultimate characters that fails to live up to their 616 counterpart.

[Plawsky]

I wouldn't mind at all. I have no problem with "comic book deaths". Or, at least, with the concept of them. A character's return has to meet three requirements for me:

1) It has to be plausible. Does it make sense that this character came back? Does it fit comic book logic?
2) It shouldn't affect the impact of the character's death. Would the past stories be less important without the death?
3) It has to have a purpose. Why are they coming back? Is it worth the retcon?

Scarlet Witch coming back would work on both of those levels. For the first rule, she can manipulate reality; of course her return makes sense. For the second, her death had little to no impact as it were, so it would be fine. Her death caused Pietro to turn on both his father and the Ultimates, but his motivation still exists without her death. The third rule would remain to be seen, but it would certainly be possible.

A resurrection like Ultimate Beast is an example of one that doesn't ultimately fit my "requirements." His return was somewhat plausible (though still a stretch). However, the fact that he was alive makes the story where he died less important. His death represented the fact that mutants weren't safe from the world, as he was their first real casualty. Him surviving takes away from that impact. And since he died in Ultimatum without really doing much, his return also served very little purpose. Sure, it showed that SHIELD was very manipulative and allowed for some nice character moments, but there were plenty of better ways to do it.


No cells. S.H.I.E.L.D. checked.

Is this the same SHIELD that said Norman was no longer a Goblin (on multiple occasions)?
Is this the same SHIELD that said they destroyed Doc Ock's arms but didn't (on multiple occasions)?
Is this the same SHIELD that allowed someone from the inside to infiltrate and betray them (on multiple occasions)?

You're right, SHIELD checked. And they've never lied or been wrong before.

[Trevor M.]

Yes, bullets are far more effective on the human body in the UU. But kidding aside, he was in human form when he was shot but goblin form when the truck was slammed on him. While he did revert back to human form, we were shown he was alive after that.He turned back into human form so he could be killed however the OZ would have still worked seeing how he survived and also we don't know if he's dead or not after the truck explosion he could still be alive.

[Kurolegacy]

Is this the same SHIELD that said Norman was no longer a Goblin (on multiple occasions)?
Is this the same SHIELD that said they destroyed Doc Ock's arms but didn't (on multiple occasions)?
Is this the same SHIELD that allowed someone from the inside to infiltrate and betray them (on multiple occasions)?

You're right, SHIELD checked. And they've never lied or been wrong before.Considering the track record of the SHIELD scientists, it's no wonder they had to "hire" on a teenage genius to fix their mistake with the Legacy Virus.

[Wolverine12]

When I say magic I don't mean someone is casting a spell that revives them. I mean something more along the lines of Wanda's magic is so powerful that even in death a faint glimmer of her aura still exists within her body, slowly building strength until she simply comes back to life, or as close to life as she can be.

Someone like, oh say, Wolverine, doesn't have magic in his body. Come to think of it... he doesn't even have a body.

You're right he doesn't have magic, but neither did Cap when he died in Ultimatum, but he's still kicking. Besides the obvious way to bring back Logan, we've seen non magic characters be revived before.

More on topic, I think it's been a long enough time to keep the dead means dead rule going. Marvel is cancelling titles left and right and if it takes the bump of a revived Wolverine and Spiderman than I'm all in. Not like it was a secret that I want characters back. Maybe keep Mags and Prof dead so their debate is over.

[Darman456]

I wouldn't mind at all. I have no problem with "comic book deaths". Or, at least, with the concept of them. A character's return has to meet three requirements for me:

1) It has to be plausible. Does it make sense that this character came back? Does it fit comic book logic?
2) It shouldn't affect the impact of the character's death. Would the past stories be less important without the death?
3) It has to have a purpose. Why are they coming back? Is it worth the retcon?

Scarlet Witch coming back would work on both of those levels. For the first rule, she can manipulate reality; of course her return makes sense. For the second, her death had little to no impact as it were, so it would be fine. Her death caused Pietro to turn on both his father and the Ultimates, but his motivation still exists without her death. The third rule would remain to be seen, but it would certainly be possible.

A resurrection like Ultimate Beast is an example of one that doesn't ultimately fit my "requirements." His return was somewhat plausible (though still a stretch). However, the fact that he was alive makes the story where he died less important. His death represented the fact that mutants weren't safe from the world, as he was their first real casualty. Him surviving takes away from that impact. And since he died in Ultimatum without really doing much, his return also served very little purpose. Sure, it showed that SHIELD was very manipulative and allowed for some nice character moments, but there were plenty of better ways to do it.



Is this the same SHIELD that said Norman was no longer a Goblin (on multiple occasions)?
Is this the same SHIELD that said they destroyed Doc Ock's arms but didn't (on multiple occasions)?
Is this the same SHIELD that allowed someone from the inside to infiltrate and betray them (on multiple occasions)?

You're right, SHIELD checked. And they've never lied or been wrong before.

Do you think Norman's return fit these requirements? If Peter ever returned do you think it would fit the requirements? I was just wondering...

[Darman456]

You're right he doesn't have magic, but neither did Cap when he died in Ultimatum, but he's still kicking. Besides the obvious way to bring back Logan, we've seen non magic characters be revived before.

More on topic, I think it's been a long enough time to keep the dead means dead rule going. Marvel is cancelling titles left and right and if it takes the bump of a revived Wolverine and Spiderman than I'm all in. Not like it was a secret that I want characters back. Maybe keep Mags and Prof dead so their debate is over.

Those are the characters I wouldn't have killed in the first place.

Peter Parker
James Howlett
Matt Murdock

All of them should have lived. At least a little bit longer to develop their replacements in the titles. If the replacements fail, I wouldn't mind them resurrecting these characters. But of course, Daredevil never got a replacement, so...

[Darman456]

I'd make a dumb blonde comment about her but I don't want to offend any people with blonde hair here. Either way, she's one of the rare Ultimate characters that fails to live up to their 616 counterpart.

Hmmm...no. I think Carol Danvers really didn't know what she was doing. In fact, I think most of the people in the DoSM arc were pretty stupid. Steve Rogers doesn't really seem to care aside from holding Peter's bloodied body that Peter had taken a bullet for him. He sent no help for Peter and he didn't even bother to send a group out to escort him to a SHIELD hospital for helping. No, teenager takes a bullet...no matter. Bendis did briefly go over it in Spidey's inner monologue, but you would think people would make a bigger deal out of it. Especially after what had happened with Miles. Someone knew he had been shot, but yet Peter had a fight for at least twenty minutes in a neighborhood and died because the ambulance couldn't get there in time. It just seems like, if they were going to kill off Peter, maybe the Ultimate Six should've taken down a small group of people that had come to stop them from killing Peter and then Peter had to take them down, but ended up dying anyway. That would be more realistic (yes, I'm looking at you wyokid).

[Morentez]

I'd quit the line, especially since Nick Spencer said that no one will be coming back to life on his watch.

Think you'll find Loeb brought her back at the end of Ultimate X. Making his absolute HASH of a run on Ultimates 3 completely pointless... "OH NOES WANDA AND PIETRO ARE DEAD... JUST KIDDING CARRY ON LOL".

It's never even been hinted at that she's imaginary, as at the end of Ultimate X he re-introduces her to the group! Don't you think you'd point out if someone went "Wandas back! Here she is!" and pointed to an empty chair?

[wyokid]

Think you'll find Loeb brought her back at the end of Ultimate X. Making his absolute HASH of a run on Ultimates 3 completely pointless... "OH NOES WANDA AND PIETRO ARE DEAD... JUST KIDDING CARRY ON LOL".

It's never even been hinted at that she's imaginary, as at the end of Ultimate X he re-introduces her to the group! Don't you think you'd point out if someone went "Wandas back! Here she is!" and pointed to an empty chair?
Pietro was never dead, we saw him crying. Something was clearly weird with Wanda in Ultimate X #5. You get a "B" for trying though :P

[Wolverine12]

Pietro was never dead, we saw him crying. Something was clearly weird with Wanda in Ultimate X #5. You get a "B" for trying though :P

Kinda like Beast was never dead? :tongue:

If everyone comes back and says "oh I was never really dead" will you be ok with it lol.

[wyokid]

No and that mindset was when I was arguing just to argue. I've evolved since then :smile:

[Morentez]

Pietro was never dead, we saw him crying. Something was clearly weird with Wanda in Ultimate X #5. You get a "B" for trying though :P

The "something" wrong with Wanda was that Art Adams was drawing her and tried to make her look like a stereotypical villain (dark eyes etc).

Also even if you were joking, please try not to sound so patronizing. Saying I get a "B for trying" is ridiculously obnoxious.

[Kurolegacy]

Hmmm...no. I think Carol Danvers really didn't know what she was doing. In fact, I think most of the people in the DoSM arc were pretty stupid. Steve Rogers doesn't really seem to care aside from holding Peter's bloodied body that Peter had taken a bullet for him. He sent no help for Peter and he didn't even bother to send a group out to escort him to a SHIELD hospital for helping. No, teenager takes a bullet...no matter. Bendis did briefly go over it in Spidey's inner monologue, but you would think people would make a bigger deal out of it. Especially after what had happened with Miles. Someone knew he had been shot, but yet Peter had a fight for at least twenty minutes in a neighborhood and died because the ambulance couldn't get there in time. It just seems like, if they were going to kill off Peter, maybe the Ultimate Six should've taken down a small group of people that had come to stop them from killing Peter and then Peter had to take them down, but ended up dying anyway. That would be more realistic (yes, I'm looking at you wyokid).

I agree here and the very thing that makes it even worse is that these guys are the heroes that we're supposed to be rooting for and yet they left a 16 year old for dead and never looked back. That fact will Always remain and the irony is, it's a true Uncle Ben moment for them and they don't seem to see it. They had the power to prevent Peter's death but didn't act on it. I'm kinda surprised that no one's called them out on it and given Jessica's violent reaction to Miles dressing up as Spider-Man, I'd have loved for her to be the one to do it since she now has to work with the people who are in part responsible for her brother's death by doing nothing to help him after he literally took a bullet for them.

[Morentez]

I agree here and the very thing that makes it even worse is that these guys are the heroes that we're supposed to be rooting for and yet they left a 16 year old for dead and never looked back. That fact will Always remain and the irony is, it's a true Uncle Ben moment for them and they don't seem to see it. They had the power to prevent Peter's death but didn't act on it. I'm kinda surprised that no one's called them out on it and given Jessica's violent reaction to Miles dressing up as Spider-Man, I'd have loved for her to be the one to do it since she now has to work with the people who are in part responsible for her brother's death by doing nothing to help him after he literally took a bullet for them.

To be fair it was War Machine's fault that they left Peter. He did bow up the bridge and send them all into the waters below... Granted they could have just stopped again but I got the impression War Machibe didn't know what was going down on the bridge before he went boom!

[Robbie_Jee]

Thor came back.
So did Cap and Norman.
Now Scarlett Witch is seemingly alive.
This means it's entirely plausible for some of the others.

Dr Strange - Magic, body being taken away by mysterious figure.
Dr Doom - Isn't he still trapped in the Zombie Universe?
Wolverine - Can't/Won't stay down forever.
Scott - Surely that was Havok who got shot in the head? Read Ultimatum #5 if you don't believe me.

Peter - There's the Zodiac Key, though that could be used on anyone so I don't like that idea. The same goes for the Jocasta Project. Therefore, Jan and Peter should stay dead. It'd be too much of a cop-out.

BTW, I'm not fully aware what cop out even means. Is it an American terminology? I've only ever heard/seen it being said on this forum.

[Kurolegacy]

Thor came back.
So did Cap and Norman.
Now Scarlett Witch is seemingly alive.
This means it's entirely plausible for some of the others.

Dr Strange - Magic, body being taken away by mysterious figure.
Dr Doom - Isn't he still trapped in the Zombie Universe?
Wolverine - Can't/Won't stay down forever.
Scott - Surely that was Havok who got shot in the head? Read Ultimatum #5 if you don't believe me.

Peter - There's the Zodiac Key, though that could be used on anyone so I don't like that idea. The same goes for the Jocasta Project. Therefore, Jan and Peter should stay dead. It'd be too much of a cop-out.

BTW, I'm not fully aware what cop out even means. Is it an American terminology? I've only ever heard/seen it being said on this forum.
Basically a cop-out is failing to live up to a commitment in the face of difficulty and backing out on it.