All Things CROSSGEN.

[quannage]

Hello!

I noticed that there aren't any areas in this forum for talking about Marvel's relaunch of Crossgen Comics. I enjoyed a bunch of Crossgen's books the first time around, but I'm a little lost on these new iterations. I tried to read some of the new stuff, but I couldn't figure out what was going on.
If someone could bring me up to speed on what has been happening in the new Crossgen and how it conencts - if it connects at all - to the old Crossgen stuff, I'd appreciate it.

In addition, I've posted my opinions on why Crossgen failed in the first place on my blog, if anyone is interested in checking it out. Please feel free to leave your own opinion on it if you do! http://theseizurecomic.com

[DonC]

Hello!

I noticed that there aren't any areas in this forum for talking about Marvel's relaunch of Crossgen Comics.


We've had this debate before. New CrossGen discussion is in the Marvel forum.

[The Adventurer]

If someone could bring me up to speed on what has been happening in the new Crossgen and how it conencts - if it connects at all - to the old Crossgen stuff, I'd appreciate it.
In short. They don't.

Sigil and Mystic are completely new, unrelated stories that share a title with the original series.

Ruse, got a soft reboot removing all the Crossgen shared universe stuff (now its set on Earth in the Victorian Era), but largely left the series a continuation of the previous (at least a continuation of Mark Waid's run). That being said, it stands on its own, as it own thing.

Upcoming Marvel/Crossgen titles are Route 666 and Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang. Both of which will have no connection to their previous series. So.. jump in without fear of confusion.


I'm a big Crossgen fan. I've not been very happy with how Marvel as been treating the brand. I thought Ruse and Mystic were pretty good. But Sigil was a resounding MEH. The whole exercise strikes me as a bad case of trademark squatting. And not of the titles get enough issues to find their legs (4 issue mini-series are NOT ENOUGH SPACE to A)World Build, B)Set up Characters, and C)Tell a damn story.). So yeah. I want to like Marvel/Crossgen. But there are a number of factors that are making me grumble over how its being handled.

[SJNeal]

Upcoming Marvel/Crossgen titles are Route 666 and Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang. Both of which will have no connection to their previous series. So.. jump in without fear of confusion.


The way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if these get canceled before the first issue even hits shelves... :frown:

[The Adventurer]

The way things are going, I wouldn't be surprised if these get canceled before the first issue even hits shelves... :frown:
Why? What have you heard?

[SJNeal]

Why? What have you heard?

Nothing specfic to the CrossGen titles, but Marvel's recently canceled several D-list projects (the Doom mini, Van Lente's Destroyers, etc) after announcing them, but before they're released.

And it's no secret the previous CrossGen mini's didn't exactly light up the sales charts...

[SilverZeal]

Nothing specfic to the CrossGen titles, but Marvel's recently canceled several D-list projects (the Doom mini, Van Lente's Destroyers, etc) after announcing them, but before they're released.

And it's no secret the previous CrossGen mini's didn't exactly light up the sales charts...

Of course dey didnt light-up d sales charts when fans of d CGU get slappd in d face with rip-off buks sharing d same title with zero connection watsoever...Marvel could change all dis by bringing bak NEGATIONwith leadstar xcter OBREGON KKKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAINE & d rest of his crew & other xcters originating from different titles in dis fantastic team-buk which would b d best way 2 re-start a well connectd CGU l8r releasing spin-off titles based on different xcters(&/or their world of origin) in d NEGATION buk.

[BrotherUnitNo_4]

AHEM! *points at signature*

THREAD MERGE PLEASE!

Also, the reason to worry about the Crossgen imprint is that Kiss Kiss Bang Bang was originally announced for December publication. We've heard nothing about it since, and truthfully I don't fault Marvel for not wanting to push forward with floppies, but given the success of things like the Vertigo line in trades, they should really try promote the books like that.

Mystic was great, and I agree with the poster who said that four issues was too short. Mystic seemed like there was such a rich world waiting to be discovered. It's disappointing to know that this particular incarnation will probably never be referenced again, with this particular team.

[Captain Jim]

I was so excited when I first heard that Marvel was bringing these titles back. And I was so disappointed to see what we got. New blah characters that have absolutely nothing to do with the originals.

I mean, what's the point? If you want to create new properties, then create new properties. It's not like the name recognition is so strong that using an old CG title is going to automatically bring in more people.

It's not really going to bother me if we never see more of these, if what we've seen so far is any indication.

[Chiasm]

Of course dey didnt light-up d sales charts when fans of d CGU get slappd in d face with rip-off buks sharing d same title with zero connection watsoever...Marvel could change all dis by bringing bak NEGATIONwith leadstar xcter OBREGON KKKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAINE & d rest of his crew & other xcters originating from different titles in dis fantastic team-buk which would b d best way 2 re-start a well connectd CGU l8r releasing spin-off titles based on different xcters(&/or their world of origin) in d NEGATION buk.

While I'm not totally certain what you said since it wasn't in English I think your saying they should have relaunched Negation.

To that I'd agree. They also should have relaunched a straight up reboot of Sojourn as it was their best selling title and there is a dearth of fantasy books out there right now.

Other than Ruse all they did with these new titles that had virtually no connection to the old was alienate old Crossgen fans while attracting very few new ones.

As Nova would say - EPIC FAIL.

[Chiasm]

I was so excited when I first heard that Marvel was bringing these titles back. And I was so disappointed to see what we got. New blah characters that have absolutely nothing to do with the originals.

I mean, what's the point? If you want to create new properties, then create new properties. It's not like the name recognition is so strong that using an old CG title is going to automatically bring in more people.

It's not really going to bother me if we never see more of these, if what we've seen so far is any indication.

Yep. I'd rather never see a new faux-Crossgen book again than any of these books that just piss all over the old ones. I was a massive Crossgen fan back in the day and all Sigil and Mystic did was make me angry (even though Sigil was an okay book for what it was, it just wasn't Sigil). Ruse was awesome but it appears to be the exception in Marvel's plans for Crossgen.

[BrotherUnitNo_4]

Considering the sales of Ruse, I think it made sense for Marvel to experiment with the properties. The CrossGen fans of yesteryear sure as hell didn't show up for that, and that was with Mark Waid as writer.

178. RUSE [Crossgen]
03/11 #1 of 4 - 28,520
04/11 #2 of 4 - 11,861 (-58.4%)
05/11 #3 of 4 - 10,749 ( -9.4%)
06/11 #4 of 4 - 10,532 ( -2.0%)

By Marvel's typical sales standards, that's a failure. Had it been an ongoing it would've still been cancelled. Admittedly, it was the best-selling Crossgen book but at that level it's really the best of a bad lot.

Also, while I can't speak for Sigil, I didn't feel that Mystic was a story that was a good fit for the direct market. It was a good story in an interesting world with amazing art, but it doesn't fit with what people go to Marvel for.

The Crossgen brand really isn't as strong as it could be, but I think Marvel should stick with it and really push that as its own Vertigo. When people think of Vertigo they don't think of it as a DC brand, but as its own entity. You go into Vertigo with the expectation that you'll get something completely different from DC's primary product. That's what Crossgen should be for Marvel.

[Indymion]

I was hoping they would put out a new Meridian title.

[BrotherUnitNo_4]

Yep. I'd rather never see a new faux-Crossgen book again than any of these books that just piss all over the old ones. I was a massive Crossgen fan back in the day and all Sigil and Mystic did was make me angry (even though Sigil was an okay book for what it was, it just wasn't Sigil). Ruse was awesome but it appears to be the exception in Marvel's plans for Crossgen.

I'm confused. How exactly do they piss all over the old books?

[Chiasm]

I'm confused. How exactly do they piss all over the old books?

Sigil is about Sam, a Han Solo type of space veteran, and his crew on a spaceship. They are trying to stop an intergalactic war. The thing Marvel put out bore no similarity to it.

Mystic is about two adult high society sisters who can do magic. Not two child orphans.

The other new books will also bear no similarity to the originals. With the exception of Ruse all Marvel did was take the old name and craft something wholly new and unrelated to the old. They should have just gotten a new name if they aren't going to use the old concept. If they don't like the old concept thats fine, call it something else, just don't try and pretend its a new version of the old book because all your doing is angering those of us who liked the old books as they were. And its not a wise thing to anger the fanbase of the old Crossgen who were hoping for a conclusion to unfinished stories since we are also the ones most likely to support the new books which would then allow them to grow.

After what they did to Sigil I avoided Mystic and will likely avoid the next set too. If Ruse ever gets another series I'll get it since it was the exception to what Marvel did here. And if they ever do a straight up reboot of Sojourn, Scion, Crux, Negation, Sigil, The First, or any of the other books I'll try them. But no more of these wholly new books.

[BrotherUnitNo_4]

So you're upset that they tried something new?

[Chiasm]

So you're upset that they tried something new?

I'll use small words this time.

I'm upset they used the old names with new concepts.

I'd accept tweaks just like I accept the tweaks they made to Ruse. Emma is no longer somehow connected to the First and thats okay because Ruse never really was big into that.

[BrotherUnitNo_4]

I'll use small words this time.

I'm upset they used the old names with new concepts.

I'd accept tweaks just like I accept the tweaks they made to Ruse. Emma is no longer somehow connected to the First and thats okay because Ruse never really was big into that.

It never ceases to amaze me how condescending some of the posters on this board can get. :smile:

You could just treat it as an Elseworlds you know and enjoy it for what it is, a good albeit simple story, and it's an example of Marvel really trying to branch out and provide diversity in their publishing line.

[Wellman]

Personally, I enjoyed the Sigil reboot, but I can see why fans of the original would dislike it. I was was hoping based off the hints dropped in the Sigil series, it would lead to interconnecting but individual CG stories like the original but Mystic and Ruse seem fairly self contained so I have to wonder if that is even in the cards.

That being said, like others, I do hope sometime down the line Marvel does do a Crossgen mini with characters and premise from the original books.

[BrotherUnitNo_4]

Personally, I enjoyed the Sigil reboot, but I can see why fans of the original would dislike it. I was was hoping based off the hints dropped in the Sigil series, it would lead to interconnecting but individual CG stories like the original but Mystic and Ruse seem fairly self contained so I have to wonder if that is even in the cards.

That being said, like others, I do hope sometime down the line Marvel does do a Crossgen mini with characters and premise from the original books.

Well, I'm happy that you at least gave the books a shot. :smile:

And yes, I know why you older readers would be disappointed, but I think Marvel just really didn't want to overwhelm any potentially new readers.

Also, has anyone heard any plans to republish the old Crossgen trades?

[SpideyCzar]

I was a big fan of the prior Crossgen series Scion, would like to see Marvel reprint it in a OSHC format.

Really didn't pay much attention to any of the other Crossgen titles besides Scion or Sojurn(I think that's how you spell it).

[Eris]

Hello everyone :)

I'd also like to see the old series reprinted, but somehow I can't see Marvel doing it. Would there be any profit in it for them?
On the up-side, something like Scion did have an "end", but for other series the old paperbacks (well, the crossgen published ones, not the checker ones) still seem to be lurking around, and I just can't see Marvel thinking it would be worth it, particularly for the ones that never did finish :(

I'm enjoying seeing the "return" of the crossgen properties, but I have to admit I wasn't thrilled with Sigil either. It wasn't so much that I was upset they tried something new, as being annoyed they didn't even make it vaguely related to the something old.

Ruse was then and is now about detectives. Mystic was then and is now about magic. Sigil was then about space wars and is now about teen time-travel.

Sigil was a passable story, and actually I enjoyed seeing El Cazador, but it wasn't Sigil. They took a story about an male mercenary in wartorn space and turned it into schoolgirl teen power time-travel with techno-pandorica's box.
It was nothing to do with the series it was re-envisioning. Nothing. It didn't even give female Sam the same Sigil powers. I honestly feel that it would have struggled to be more different.
It was utterly disappointing, because I've enjoyed Cosmic Marvel and would have enjoyed seeing Sigil as a true sci-fi tale.
The main thing that kept bugging me, however, was that if Marvel wanted a Crossgen story about a teen female protagonist who'd have powers to get used to and a link to pirates (okay, different pirates, but still) they already had one they could have used: Meridian.
(I'm not saying I would have particularly liked to see what we got branded as Meridian starring Sephie from South Carolina either, but I think it would have felt closer)


I guess in the end the real truth of the matter is that Marvel's Sigil just never grabbed me. Ruse and Mystic did. Ruse was like an old friend coming home, particularly because I know Waid has said the 'shared universe' concepts were kind of forced on the original title. It was fun seeing Archard and Bishop again, and seeing many of his different Agents. And Lightbourne!
And if Ruse was like seeing an old friend, Mystic was like making a new one. It may be different to Old Mystic but unlike with Sigil, I don't care - they succeeded in making me like it anyway. It was great. They weren't the characters or world I knew, but they introduced me to new ones and in the space of those four issues they were very well developed. The class struggle in the world, the division between the Genevieve and Giselle, the reliance on arcane power, the steam-punkish arcane golems, the uses of magic... I loved all of it. The plotting was well paced, and the art was brilliant. It had an animated quality and really felt like it came to life on the pages.
I did think part of Viv's transformation felt like it came too fast and perhaps went too far, but as she didn't ACTUALLY go over the line and I'm hoping for her leading a more sane people's uprising if the series continues.
I understand sales were awful though, which is a real shame. I really did think it was brilliant, and I would love to see a full series come out of it with the same creative team.

The only thing I really wish had been kept in, to some degree, was the variety of different schools of magic. I can understand why they wouldn't have worked properly in the space of a miniseries, but it still felt like a shame to lose them (Seeing as how the New guild reminds me of the Old Geometers though, I would have loved to see someone resembling Archemus flitting around)


Assuming the miniseries keep coming (and I'm assuming they will because I'm sincerely inclined to think it's more of a 'keeping copyright' issue than an 'expecting these series to sell gangbusters' one) the one I'm really looking forward to is actually one of the ones up next.
KKBB never really made an impression on me in it's original incanation, so I'll almost be trying out the new series with a blank slate.
Route 666 is a different story. It made a huge impression on me when it was coming out - it was actually my favourite series while it was running.
That leaves me both excited to see it "return", and dreading that I could think it falls flat.
From the information seen so far, I'm still cautiously optimistic about it. Design wise I might wish Cassie still had her blonde hair and glasses, but the sketches I've seen from Nguyen are pretty good and feel like they have some character.
There's at least some influence from the original there, and all the interviews I've seen make it sound promising, so I'm looking forward to seeing how it will work. (I do hope the Railsplitter returns in some form though)
If they do get cancelled before coming out I'm going to be beyond disappointed :(

In terms of unannounced further mini-series, I'd like to see Negation, even if I'm not sure how it would work in only four issues. I'd love to see a new Chimera series though :)

Considering they have Land turning out his traced dross on so many other series, the fact they haven't already done a Sojourn mini baffles me.