What's up with Ultimate Scarlet Witch/Pietro?

[Erik F]

Just finished breezing through the Ultimates trades, and man, is there a disturbing undercurrent to their relationship. You know what I mean. They're very, ah, close, even for siblings. Or am I the only one who's noticed this?

I think this might be the first time I've seen this issue raised in a comic before. Certainly, um, different.

[Beast]

The disturbing undercurrent is all Millar. He's basically said in interviews that they're an incestous couple. Which is really really freakin' disturbing if you ask me. But this sort of weirdness is common from Millar. And was there when he was writing Ult. X-Men as well, just pick up the Ultimate X-Men 1/2 issue. And just wait til you get to Ultimates 2, Wanda and Pietro are on what ammounts to a date in a gondola in Paris. *Shudder*

[Stagier]

And just wait til you get to Ultimates 2, Wanda and Pietro are on what ammounts to a date in a gondola in Paris. *Shudder*

sorry beast but you must mean venice, ITALY. no gondolas in paris, we do have flyboats.

[Beast]

sorry beast but you must mean venice, ITALY. no gondolas in paris, we do have flyboats.
Gah, sorry about that. My brain knew what I wanted to say.... but my fingers typed something else. Thanks for the correction, my friend. We both agree that it was creepy though, right. :)

[blue13]

i think millar got the idea for pietro and wanda based on what morrison said about sue and johnny in the regular marvel universe.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Just finished breezing through the Ultimates trades, and man, is there a disturbing undercurrent to their relationship. You know what I mean. They're very, ah, close, even for siblings. Or am I the only one who's noticed this?

I think this might be the first time I've seen this issue raised in a comic before. Certainly, um, different.

dude, their magical terrorists living in a forced utopia in antartica and are quite happy to kill humans because their daddy says so.
Incest is probably the least disturbing thing about them.
I was more disturbed when Magneto was quite happy to force his daughter on to cyclops.

Incest has been in comics plenty of times before.
Just step outside of superhereos and every taboo has been done in comics.

Heck, go rent out and The Dreamers and you can see it on the screen (or anyone of many playboy fantasy videos I assume).

For me it's just classic Millar.
He wanted the characters to have a weird vibe to them, and so he started hinting towards that as shortcut for making them strange.

[codename x]

well you know that bothers me too.
when i was reading that italy parts i was like, kept asking myself:" it cant be....can it?"

but anyway i wont be surprised if millar really wants to do something wired, and it wont really be a bad thing......would it? would it? ahhhhhaaaaa!!!!

[The Fury]

I like this plot, makes me think.

Besides, these characters would be so boring without this interesting aspect to them. Millar has put strong characterisations on all his characters in this series and did so with them as well, they just happen to be a very close brother and sister.

[pood]

When I first picked up on this, I was a little surprised.

A LITTLE.








Then I just got horny thinkin' about it.


I'm such a perv. :D

[Stagier]

We both agree that it was creepy though, right. :)

creepy is not even the word to describe it.. the worst part is you could almost SEE how into pietro wanda was...damn hitch!!


Heck, go rent out and The Dreamers and you can see it on the screen (or anyone of many playboy fantasy videos I assume).


The dreamers didn't have incest, they were just close, or at least one of them thought that way. the two never did "stuff"


Then I just got horny thinkin' about it.
:D

NO HE DIDN'T......

[pood]

NO HE DIDN'T......

Yes, he did. It must be that whole biological animalistic side. You know, the desire of the genes to pass on their genetic information to as many potential descendants as possible. It's acctually quite fascinating. I think most young males have a early sexual fantasy that involves some sort of misogyny.

[Charagon]

Mark Millar is the most talentless writer I've ever had the misfortune of reading. Even Austen has more good points than Millar.

[thik_3rd]

i think millar got the idea for pietro and wanda based on what morrison said about sue and johnny in the regular marvel universe.
whatd morrison say?

[roguestorm]

magneto shoots off the legs of his son pietro and forces wanda to watch and the only thing you people find disturbing is there incestual relationship? with a father like that no wonder they turned out that way. i acctually like this addition to them, it's very freaky/intresting.

[Headhunter]

In a world filled with rampant homocide and genocide, incest isn't exactly near the top of the list. Should be more worried about someone trying to make your brain explode from the inside...

[Cephus]

Sure it's disturbing, it's supposed to be. But it makes sense too, based on how Pietro and Wanda were raised. These are all super-powered people which are inherently different than normal people, why would anyone expect them to act normal? I'm surprised there aren't more superpowered headcases blowing up buildings.

[ChoasMAC]

The Ultimate U was created to appeal to a different generation with different values. Now I'm not saying doing the dirty deed with sis is cool, but it is an interesting plot twist with the twins. Now I know 616 is all screwed up too (in some fanboy's eyes), so then you can complain about that. See, the 616 has how many decades of established work and history? While the Ultimate U is setting out to appeal to us sick twisted kids, with no shock value, that were raised on T.V. I'm cool with someone loving the simple panel by panel old school stuff. Part of me considers Claremont a poor writer, but I give him the respect thats rightly his for helping creat the rich X-universe. Millar can be hit and miss too, but he sure did help create a VERY interesting Ultimate Universe.

[Squila Lord]

Jeez! They aren't freakin' Hillbillies. That's just totally wrong! Can you imagine what kind of offspring they could produce, mental retardation aside!

[Indigo Al]

I just find it nasty and tasteless, basically Millar sneering at the Marvel U in general. As an "edgy" angle it's only gonna go so far.

Ultimate U was a chance to gloriously reimagine the Marvel U. Apart from two of the Ultimates, none of them inspire greatness in any way.

But, I'm still hooked on the book... :(

[Catalyst]

Sure it's disturbing, it's supposed to be. But it makes sense too, based on how Pietro and Wanda were raised. These are all super-powered people which are inherently different than normal people, why would anyone expect them to act normal? I'm surprised there aren't more superpowered headcases blowing up buildings.

are they your favorite Ultimates characters?

[roguestorm]

Sure it's disturbing, it's supposed to be. But it makes sense too, based on how Pietro and Wanda were raised. These are all super-powered people which are inherently different than normal people, why would anyone expect them to act normal? I'm surprised there aren't more superpowered headcases blowing up buildings.


exactly, back in antient egypt royalty usually married there siblings in order to not taint the blood line. considering magneto has this whole genetic superiority complex he probably encouraged the twins to persue there incestual relationship for the possiblity of stronger offspring.

[Cayman]

I love Ultimate Pietro, he's hilarious. Ultimate Wanda hasn't yet displayed much of a personality.

Cay

[Vegetarian Goat]

I just find it nasty and tasteless, basically Millar sneering at the Marvel U in general. As an "edgy" angle it's only gonna go so far.

Ultimate U was a chance to gloriously reimagine the Marvel U. Apart from two of the Ultimates, none of them inspire greatness in any way.

But, I'm still hooked on the book... :(

That's exactly how i feel about it- it's like rubbernecking. It really is addicting. I don't want this to become a creator/title bashing thread, but Millar characters REALLY annoy me. He likes to write shock value material, and snide, snotty, "edgy" characters with few redeeming qualities. And even though i'm hooked on the book, i really don't enjoy the characters. Maybe i like reading it to see them screw up. :D

But seriously- Millar seems to write comics the way Jerry Bruckheimer makes movies- is it any wonder that Millar is the mastermind behind Disassembled?

sorry for going a little bit off topic. needed to vent.

[Catalyst]

exactly, back in antient egypt royalty usually married there siblings in order to not taint the blood line. considering magneto has this whole genetic superiority complex he probably encouraged the twins to persue there incestual relationship for the possiblity of stronger offspring.


i guess this Magneto isn't a geneticist like his 616 counterpart. Pietro should be looking for a powerful mutant woman; preferably one he's not related to. that is unless he just wants birth defects.

[tempestuousepulchre]

Jeez! They aren't freakin' Hillbillies. That's just totally wrong! Can you imagine what kind of offspring they could produce, mental retardation aside!

The same "kind" of offspring that could be produced if it were scarlet witch and cyclops? And as far as mental retardation goes...we don't even know how many choromosomes they have. Who knows how they react to inbreeding.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

whatd morrison say?

When hyping FF1234 Morrison just put the scare into the fanboys by saying it would explore the incecteous side of the FF.

[X-Men Forever]

Jeez! They aren't freakin' Hillbillies. That's just totally wrong! Can you imagine what kind of offspring they could produce, mental retardation aside!

Do not be so quick to bash on incest. Most people problably have some inbread genes some where along the lines in their family tree. And as far as the offspring they could produce, their kids would be some fast az, magic weilding, mutants.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Do not be so quick to bash on incest. Most people problably have some inbread genes some where along the lines in their family tree. And as far as the offspring they could produce, their kids would be some fast az, magic weilding, mutants.

the incest debate is raging right now in x-cresence.

c'mon on in kiddies, it's all ages fun.

[Charagon]

Millar doesn't know how to do anything but write stories with nothing deeper than shock value.

He ruined Ultimate X-Men in the very first page when he started with a Sentinal stepping on a kid. More disturbing is that X-Men: Evolution actually came closer to what Ultimate X-Men should have been than Millar ever did.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

Millar doesn't know how to do anything but write stories with nothing deeper than shock value.

He ruined Ultimate X-Men in the very first page when he started with a Sentinal stepping on a kid. More disturbing is that X-Men: Evolution actually came closer to what Ultimate X-Men should have been than Millar ever did.

Sentinals were designed to kill people though.

you don't think showing them killing a kid was showing how sick the idea of sentinals were?

(and quite frankly, pretty true to the types of ideas the sentinals were orignally based on.)

(I was more shocked by collossus savage land threesome than I have been by anything millar has ever written at marvel).

[StoneGold]

Jeebus, it's waaaayyyy simpler than what everyone is talking. Look at the original designs for Pietro and Wanda. Millar's just cribbing off Angelina Jolie and her brother.

[LuckItSelf]

So millar wrote Ultimate Xmen too? Man, that is bizarre. I hate Ultimate Xmen, found the dialogue repetitive and awful. Seemed like every single character got a chance to say 'Idiot!' at least once in the 2 trades I picked up. The ideas weren't terribly interesting, and the 'supergroup' concept didn't seem to have any repercussions. It was just like 'oh yeah, these xmen are celebrities, on with the generic xmen story'. Actually, come to think of it, it reminded me alot of the heros reborn pocket universe.

The Ultimates is just the opposite for me, decent dialogue (can tell the characters apart by what they say) and a really fleshed out story. I honestly just can't believe Millar wrote both books.

Oh yeah, and the incest thing. I dunno, 'edgy' shock value, probably. Might be a little meat to the character dynamic if someone comes along and retcons it right. Millar seems to be avoiding a direct confirmation of their murky relationship, so another writer could put an intelligent spin on it and rescue it from the depths of super ick.

I also agree with the guy who said Millar was just aping Angelina and her bro.

[T Rath]

I look at it as a very logical extension of the behavior in the regular Marvel Universe. Pietro was WAY too overprotective of Wanda right from their introduction. Add that to a father (in the Ultimate Universe) that tells them they are VASTLY superior to everyone else (human and mutant alike) and it's only logical that they would gravitate towards each other.
Creepy, yes, but makes sense.
And could make for interesting dynamics if Wanda or Pietro were to become attracted to another member of the team.

[kcekada]

Forget Pietro and Wanda, what about Captain America? Maybe he should change his name to Captain a-hole. I would have loved seeing Thor wipe up the floor with this jerk.

[Predator]

There's been talk that the two are incestuous. But you know what? They're rarely in the book anyway, so I don't really care.

[ScarletWitchWanda87]

magneto shoots off the legs of his son pietro and forces wanda to watch and the only thing you people find disturbing is there incestual relationship? with a father like that no wonder they turned out that way. i acctually like this addition to them, it's very freaky/intresting.


it's easy to explain... if i had to watch someone blow one of my relatives legs off , i'd freak out and be upset. it's a normal reaction. doesn't mean there's incest going on...

[Cephus]

exactly, back in antient egypt royalty usually married there siblings in order to not taint the blood line. considering magneto has this whole genetic superiority complex he probably encouraged the twins to persue there incestual relationship for the possiblity of stronger offspring.

I don't know about encouraging it outright, but certainly in Ultimates #2.2, they pretty much explained themselves. I hadn't considered the traditional royalty approach, which has been common from ancient times up to even recent British royalty. Good catch.

[Will.S]

I find their relationship interesting in the Ultimate titles. I haven't seem them cross the line yet but I'll just keep rolling with it.

[anthony!]

It is possible that they aren't incestuous and that there scense are headed somewhere.

That said I am fairly dissappointed with Wanda's total lack of any development.

It would be nice to finally see them in a combat situation, as opposed to volume 1's repeating "If you go back and see the tapes..." gag.

Perhaps now that the Hulk and Giant Man are heading out, Wanda and Pietro will be featured more, and we will learn more about them

Of course, is all this any stranger than 616 Wanda having sex with a robot, imagining kids into existence and going coo-coo for cocoa puff?

-A!

[leg end]

I find it weird but atleast its something diff for a mainstream comic, plus it makes the characters vaguely interesting- I really wish any writer would start using the Ult versions of these two for a change, instead of having them just hanging around in the background.
Atleast it gives us something to say about them...

[roguestorm]

i guess this Magneto isn't a geneticist like his 616 counterpart. Pietro should be looking for a powerful mutant woman; preferably one he's not related to. that is unless he just wants birth defects.


contrary to popular belief simple mating with your own blood does not atomaticly mean your offspring will come out deformed or what not.

[pirulaso]

wasnt wanda tryen to get cyclops back when he was under magneto? but yes i noticed they pushed the closeness and its disturbing and i really am starting to dislike most of the ultimate series.

[Shellhead]

So the Ultimate line is targeted at today's 20-somethings? Several people have used the term "interesting" in this thread, with regard to the relationship of Ultimate Wanda and Pietro.

I have to say, I have a very different understanding of the word "interesting."
To me, something is interesting if it is deep, complex, and not obvious. Something that holds on to my attention because there are various aspects to consider.

But for you Ultimate fans, apparently "interesting" means something that is crude, obvious and shocking. Despite the shallowness of the shock value, you spend much time held in fascination by an appalling spectacle such as incestuous twins. I guess that fills the void left by the cancellation of The Jerry Springer Show.

Or am I wrong? Maybe I just don't grasp the greatness of the Ultimate comics. If so, please tell me just what "interesting" aspect of these characters I'm overlooking.

[Jake V]

You're old and we're young.

That pretty much covers it.

Move along, gramps. :D

[Paradox]

antistar is reusing old material more than I do!:

You're old and we're young.

That pretty much covers it.

Move along, gramps. :D

You forgot the callow and shallow parts. :p

[Jake V]

Doesn't callow mean frightened and weak willed? Come on man, I've got 2 steady jobs and I'm paying my own way through school.

Shallow I'll take though. :D

Come on Dox, I thought we were semi-pals.

[Paradox]

antistar shows his generation's lack of resourcefullness:

Doesn't callow mean frightened and weak willed? Come on man, I've got 2 steady jobs and I'm paying my own way through school.

We old folks have this weird thing called a dictionary we use. Might come in handy for you someday. :p

cal·low adj.
Lacking adult maturity or experience; immature: a callow young man.

Shallow I'll take though. :D

You'll take what I give you and like it, little mister! Now get out there and mow the lawn! :D

Come on Dox, I thought we were semi-pals.

If I disliked you...well, you probably wouldn't know because I'd hardly speak to you. As it is, my family has always shown affection by ragging around with each other. That's transferred to my posting long ago.

Now...the lawn?

[Jake V]

We old folks have this weird thing called a dictionary we use. Might come in handy for you someday. :p

cal·low adj.
Lacking adult maturity or experience; immature: a callow young man.
Hmph. I knew I shouldn't have taken my vocabulary lessons from the movie Mallrats.

[Will.S]

So the Ultimate line is targeted at today's 20-somethings? Several people have used the term "interesting" in this thread, with regard to the relationship of Ultimate Wanda and Pietro.

I have to say, I have a very different understanding of the word "interesting."
To me, something is interesting if it is deep, complex, and not obvious. Something that holds on to my attention because there are various aspects to consider.

But for you Ultimate fans, apparently "interesting" means something that is crude, obvious and shocking. Despite the shallowness of the shock value, you spend much time held in fascination by an appalling spectacle such as incestuous twins. I guess that fills the void left by the cancellation of The Jerry Springer Show.

Or am I wrong? Maybe I just don't grasp the greatness of the Ultimate comics. If so, please tell me just what "interesting" aspect of these characters I'm overlooking.
I don't know if it's just ol' Shellhead going for good old flaming but maybe it's interesting because it's uhh...entertainment? My understanding of interesting is the same as yours but it's a comic bro, relax.

And like I said, I haven't seen them locking lips or engaging in anything sexual yet. It's a weird relationship that I'm not used to seeing from their 616 counterparts so seeing this type of thing play out in their Ultimate counterparts keeps me interested in them in the meantime while they're busy not doing action.

[Adrian Tullberg]

Incest!

Fun for the whole family!

It might be interesting to see U. Magneto's reaction if he didn't know ...

[Cayman]

Incest!

Fun for the whole family!

It might be interesting to see U. Magneto's reaction if he didn't know ...

He'd probably encourage it.

Cay

[Leelan]

There's nothing to say that their relationship is sexual (yet) but I do think it's romantic. They are very close siblings and obviously love each other very much.

By v2 they've alienated themselves from the mutant community and still think themselves superior to humans. Essentially, all they have is each other.

Personally (though I suspect this is mostly just made up in my head) I think they are being used as a sort of ambigous bisexual sex symbol. On the Ultimates #8 cover, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch are holding hands leaning against each other and staring provocately at you. There's probably a name for how an image like that (and the fact that they are twins) would work through your subconscious mind, but I don't know what it is. For me, when the image comes out the other side of my head it says. "We are both attractive and available but we are together so it's okay to look at both of us.

[SnakeEater]

dude, their magical terrorists living in a forced utopia in antartica and are quite happy to kill humans because their daddy says so.
Incest is probably the least disturbing thing about them.
hahahahahahaha, single best thing said so far today.

[PrimalScream]

when i first got into comics(the normal MU) i didnt realise that they were brother and sister at first-i thought they were lovers. the ultimate line just shows it more. they do seem well matched tho-very understanding and loving about each other. heh maybe incest is they way to a perfect relationship.

[PrimalScream]

in the original universe didnt magneto use to make the scarlet witch dance for him-i thot that was abit weird.

[Mister Mets]

i think millar got the idea for pietro and wanda based on what morrison said about sue and johnny in the regular marvel universe.

I thought he said in an interview that he's basing the ambiguity on Angelina Jolie & her brother, and the things people have said about the two.

[loc_zsu]

when i first got into comics(the normal MU) i didnt realise that they were brother and sister at first-i thought they were lovers. the ultimate line just shows it more. they do seem well matched tho-very understanding and loving about each other. heh maybe incest is they way to a perfect relationship.
So what? Your going to try it out? Hey stuff like this is interesting as long as it isnt happening to yourself.

[PrimalScream]

So what? Your going to try it out? Hey stuff like this is interesting as long as it isnt happening to yourself.

well if wanda was my sister......hehe!

[loc_zsu]

he he he. I see where your coming from

[Grazzt]

So the Ultimate line is targeted at today's 20-somethings? Several people have used the term "interesting" in this thread, with regard to the relationship of Ultimate Wanda and Pietro.

I have to say, I have a very different understanding of the word "interesting."
To me, something is interesting if it is deep, complex, and not obvious. Something that holds on to my attention because there are various aspects to consider.

But for you Ultimate fans, apparently "interesting" means something that is crude, obvious and shocking. Despite the shallowness of the shock value, you spend much time held in fascination by an appalling spectacle such as incestuous twins. I guess that fills the void left by the cancellation of The Jerry Springer Show.

Or am I wrong? Maybe I just don't grasp the greatness of the Ultimate comics. If so, please tell me just what "interesting" aspect of these characters I'm overlooking.

Why do you automatically equate "interesting" with "good", Shellhead? Haven't you ever heard the old Chinese curse?

[Tennoarashi]

I think it's great in an Ultimate kind of way. :D

[darkchylde7]

yeah it's interesting. Wanda would be a great character with more development. Pietro is funny but he's kinda camp. Maybe he'll end up coming out and hooking up with Northstar =p

[Leelan]

No, that role is reserved for Colossus. :D

[PrimalScream]

quickie and witchy sitting in a tree K-I-S-S-I-N-G.... :D

[DracoMalfoy]

I wouldn't be surprised....especially after that Ultimate cover.

Twincest is quite common actually.

[TheWolfOfAsgard]

I think Pietro turned to Wanda for the love he can't get from Magneto and Wanda's just a raving b****h who takes advantage of it.

[DracoMalfoy]

Yeah. Miller implied he has MAJOR daddy issues.

[THE OG GL]

collossus savage land threesome

what tha hell ?

[Leelan]

collossus savage land threesome

what tha hell ?

Is it just me, or did that make zero sense?

[Grimm]

Is it just me, or did that make zero sense?

I think he's asking if Colossus had a threesome in the Savage Land.

Well, he did in 616, I don't know about Ultimate Universe though.

The regular MU one was in Uncanny X-Men #117 I think? He asked Logan to join them. Now I heard that the Ultimate Colossus likes Wolverine, and I am betting its things like that which stoked that fire :)

Edit- Uncanny :P

[PrimalScream]

I wouldn't be surprised....especially after that Ultimate cover.

Twincest is quite common actually.

really?why is it common? wish i had a twin.hehe

[wet wookie]

My sister and I used to have baths together when we were little. Mom or Dad would clean us as well. :evilangry

[Thrice]

Hey if your father was a genocidal evil meglomaniac maybe incest is not too abnormal for that family relativly speaking of course.

[Rosie]

Maybe they're actually Ultimate White Stripes by night(as referneced by Ultimate Dazzler).

[Sparda]

Im going to say this and say it..... I enjoyed miller's run on the U X-men and what I like about it is that it's unpredictable and you don't know what's gonna happen next. If they do everything from the 616 to UU then it just be boring of a read and you'll already know what to expect. In the UU I like how people have different backgrounds and character conflicts. Quite frank miller is one of my favorite writers thanks to his run on U x-men and Ultimates. UFF was pretty boring until millar came and brought the all so cool marvel zombies concept.

Now as far as pietro and wanda's incent goes, you just can't expect everything from UU to be PG. I find it disturbing as well while at the same time it adds more interesting twists.

[1WEBHEAD]

Im going to say this and say it..... I enjoyed miller's run on the U X-men and what I like about it is that it's unpredictable and you don't know what's gonna happen next. If they do everything from the 616 to UU then it just be boring of a read and you'll already know what to expect. In the UU I like how people have different backgrounds and character conflicts. Quite frank miller is one of my favorite writers thanks to his run on U x-men and Ultimates. UFF was pretty boring until millar came and brought the all so cool marvel zombies concept.

Now as far as pietro and wanda's incent goes, you just can't expect everything from UU to be PG. I find it disturbing as well while at the same time it adds more interesting twists.

Dude you're mixing up Frank Miller,the Sin City writer with Mark Millar (with an "A")

[daniel2099]

Magnus had a city, we dont know how the society was organized.
Incest may not have been taboo there and they didn't have flatscan taboos
Wanda was teaching a language there once

Someone talked about Magnus wanting Wanda to dance for him
He was next to Scott, he's trying to get Wanda and Scott together

[UltimateCyclops]

laern 2 speil.