Why is Clark Kent STILL a newspaper reporter?

[Kilgore Trout]

Anyone else find it odd that DC made these big changes 'updating' the character for the modern age yet kept him as a newspaper reporter in the age of the Internet (and digital comics)?

At least in the 70's they made him a TV news anchor, another silly idea to be sure, but at least an updated resume...

I can understand the reporter job as being critical for information purposes in the 40's, 50's and 60's but given the state of newspapers these days which mostly consist of AP or Reuters recaps, the newspaper is the last place I go for up to date stories.

Being that Superman doesn't really need a job wouldn't a blogger or an independent journalist with ties to the Daily Planet been a better and more modern idea?

[Reginleif]

Anyone else find it odd that DC made these big changes 'updating' the character for the modern age yet kept him as a newspaper reporter in the age of the Internet (and digital comics)?

At least in the 70's they made him a TV news anchor, another silly idea to be sure, but at least an updated resume...

I can understand the reporter job as being critical for information purposes in the 40's, 50's and 60's but given the state of newspapers these days which mostly consist of AP or Reuters recaps, the newspaper is the last place I go for up to date stories.

Being that Superman doesn't really need a job wouldn't a blogger or an independent journalist with ties to the Daily Planet been a better and more modern idea?

in #3 he says he has a blog

[thepenguin]

I still wonder how he holds down a 9 to 5 job and his colleagues don't get wind of it. I mean disaster/ baddies does not happen or show up at his convenience so I would hope DC shows he works very independently and there is some plausible explanation for his sudden disappearances. I mean in the JL the other guys seem to have much better covers that he does.

A tv anchor would be the silliest ever.

He should definitely be moving with the times though and can we see a smart and shrewd Clark to show he can maintain his ID as well please.

[vitruvian]

I still wonder how he holds down a 9 to 5 job and his colleagues don't get wind of it. I mean disaster/ baddies does not happen or show up at his convenience so I would hope DC shows he works very independently and there is some plausible explanation for his sudden disappearances. I mean in the JL the other guys seem to have much better covers that he does.

A tv anchor would be the silliest ever.

He should definitely be moving with the times though and can we see a smart and shrewd Clark to show he can maintain his ID as well please.

This is all pretty well explained by him being a print journalist who also maintains a blog (although I don't know if it's clear whether it's independent or affiliated with his paper's website). As a print journalist, he's free to spend his days how he likes so long as he gets his copy in on time, so he's not tied to the office to any appreciable extent, allowing him to disappear and become Superman at need. This is far more workable than trying to be a TV personality.

[Blue_Beetle]

Newspapers still exist...

[HardKore]

Newspapers still exist...

Yeah they are great for finding out who is dating who and what the score of the game was, but news, only if that news is in the interest of the publisher or is just fluff news.

[Mat001]

Anyone else find it odd that DC made these big changes 'updating' the character for the modern age yet kept him as a newspaper reporter in the age of the Internet (and digital comics)?

At least in the 70's they made him a TV news anchor, another silly idea to be sure, but at least an updated resume...

And then he went back to the newspaper field because of the first film. Even doing double duty until MOS.


I can understand the reporter job as being critical for information purposes in the 40's, 50's and 60's but given the state of newspapers these days which mostly consist of AP or Reuters recaps, the newspaper is the last place I go for up to date stories.

Being that Superman doesn't really need a job wouldn't a blogger or an independent journalist with ties to the Daily Planet been a better and more modern idea?

He does need a job. How else can he afford an apartment in Metropolis? Much less eat, pay bills and so on. It's been established in Superman #1, that the Daily Planet was bought out by GBS and has now been updated to be a major media center with television, newsprint and internet services. Clark sticks with the newsprint division since he's old fashioned it allows him the freedom to go out as Superman, as well as remain anonymous.


This is all pretty well explained by him being a print journalist who also maintains a blog (although I don't know if it's clear whether it's independent or affiliated with his paper's website). As a print journalist, he's free to spend his days how he likes so long as he gets his copy in on time, so he's not tied to the office to any appreciable extent, allowing him to disappear and become Superman at need. This is far more workable than trying to be a TV personality.

Correct. We just discussed this in another thread, but news reporters always sitting in the building doesn't really happen much in real life. And certainly before the last six years. It was especially evident in the books when Lois, Clark, Jimmy and Ron would be out of the Planet for long hours. Not to mention during "Invasion" and "Exiled", where Clark was known to have holed up in his apartment for days working on stories, while he was out as Superman. And in "Grounded", Clark was following Superman on his cross country trip.

[Jake V]

Because "works for a major metropolitan newspaper" sounds a lot better than "contributes to a blog".

[HardKore]

He does need a job. How else can he afford an apartment in Metropolis? Much less eat, pay bills and so on.



Turn coal into Diamonds?
Find buried treasure with X Ray vision?
Live in the fortress?

[Mat001]

Turn coal into Diamonds?

Too suspicious.


Find buried treasure with X Ray vision?

See above.


Live in the fortress?

Kinda defeats the purpose of living life as Clark Kent.

[kalorama]

Don't really see what the big deal is. While newspapers may well be dying, they ain't dead yet, and there are still plenty of people making a living working for them.


At least in the 70's they made him a TV news anchor, another silly idea to be sure, but at least an updated resume...

Making him a TV anchor was a really silly idea. Part of the advantage of being a reporter is that he spends the majority of his time out of the office, away from his boss' watchful eye. TV anchors have set times and places they have to be everyday. That's the worst kind of job for someone moonlighting as a superhero.

[kalorama]

Turn coal into Diamonds?

Can't do that anymore (along with moving planets with his bare hands), post-COIE


Find buried treasure with X Ray vision?

Contrary to what they told us in The Goonies, the world isn''t filled with buried treasure just lying around waiting to be found


Live in the fortress?

Helluva commute to Metropolis.

[Jack]

Because Clark is a real journalist, not just someone writing copy about the day's events. He actively goes out and finds stories that other people haven't covered, like this Glenmorgan stuff and his social crusading.

[vitruvian]

Yeah they are great for finding out who is dating who and what the score of the game was, but news, only if that news is in the interest of the publisher or is just fluff news.

That's People magazine and the sports section. Check out the front sections of the New York Times, LA Times, Washington Post, Guardian, or Independent sometime. I won't say there isn't often a slant to how things are reported, but it's kind of ridiculous to refer to front page stuff as fluff. Or to claim that none of these papers are doing any investigative journalism any longer.

[T Hedge Coke]

Newspapers still exist...

This. And, seriously, journalism is still investigation, extrapolation, perspective and writing. If you're not reading the news to yourself, you're reading someone's commentary on it, or hearing someone's commentary on news someone else wrote... or, you're hearing someone read news that someone else wrote. The Star, the Planet my become dinosaurs and then fossil fuels, but the Associated Press is of more use to non-print/traditional journalism than the other way around.

[henrymalredo]

Because Clark is a real journalist, not just someone writing copy about the day's events. He actively goes out and finds stories that other people haven't covered, like this Glenmorgan stuff and his social crusading.

Eh, makes sense. That's about as realistic in this day and age as man who can fly and has x-ray vision.

[Raye]

Why is it unrealistic? it's not like newspapers don't exist. They are not as widely distributed anymore, certainly, but someone has to write the things.

[Anthony D]

Admit Clark as a TV reporter didn't bug me, and I can see why they did it---in the 70s, TV would've been seen as a more "up to date"/"modern" medium than newspapers. (Though guess they missed the 24-hour news explosion of the 80s with CNN... GBS becoming a 24-7 news network might've been a logical move if the Byrne reboot hadn't happened, and with a 24-hour news cycle, Clark would've been freer from being tied to a desk).

Still, in 2011, I'd assume Clark has some ties to the Web like everyone else... and in 2011, newspapers often have a big presence online (NY Times, Washington Post, ec.). Surely the Daily Planet would have a similar stature online, even if still making a print edition... and like the print edition, Clark could spend long hours away and email his stories to Perry White anytime he's ready (i.e. after his latest Superman adventure). His stories would appear online *and* in print... just like the Times/Post/etc., with a choice of how one wants to read it just like in real life.

[J. Robb]

Someone has to write the news for the aggregators to link to.

[Munkiman]

Admit Clark as a TV reporter didn't bug me, and I can see why they did it---in the 70s, TV would've been seen as a more "up to date"/"modern" medium than newspapers. (Though guess they missed the 24-hour news explosion of the 80s with CNN... GBS becoming a 24-7 news network might've been a logical move if the Byrne reboot hadn't happened, and with a 24-hour news cycle, Clark would've been freer from being tied to a desk).

Still, in 2011, I'd assume Clark has some ties to the Web like everyone else... and in 2011, newspapers often have a big presence online (NY Times, Washington Post, ec.). Surely the Daily Planet would have a similar stature online, even if still making a print edition... and like the print edition, Clark could spend long hours away and email his stories to Perry White anytime he's ready (i.e. after his latest Superman adventure). His stories would appear online *and* in print... just like the Times/Post/etc., with a choice of how one wants to read it just like in real life.
Yeah, that's what I'd assume: the Daily Planet has a print edition, but republishes the content online as well, just like many major metropolitan newspapers. Clark Kent can still be a modern journalist without his own blog.

[djsweet]

That's People magazine and the sports section. Check out the front sections of the New York Times, LA Times, Washington Post, Guardian, or Independent sometime. I won't say there isn't often a slant to how things are reported, but it's kind of ridiculous to refer to front page stuff as fluff. Or to claim that none of these papers are doing any investigative journalism any longer.

Agreed must personally on the NYT and the New Yorker! Seymour Hersh has done nation shaking investigative journalist

[djsweet]

It is silly to think that Clark Kent would ever need to work to pay the bills.

[Tiberious]

Not many people know what newspaper journalists look like. Some do but not like if he were on the six o clock news every night. I personally love how he works just as hard to bring down corruption as Clark as he does as Kal.

[Xiroteus]

Find buried treasure with X Ray vision?


That is what I was thinking, that is what I would do in a second, I would come up with some excuse, better than worrying about a job.


Contrary to what they told us in The Goonies, the world isn''t filled with buried treasure just lying around waiting to be found

Ocean, gold vines that were never discovered etc...

[sethysquare]

I still wonder how he holds down a 9 to 5 job and his colleagues don't get wind of it. I mean disaster/ baddies does not happen or show up at his convenience so I would hope DC shows he works very independently and there is some plausible explanation for his sudden disappearances. I mean in the JL the other guys seem to have much better covers that he does.

A tv anchor would be the silliest ever.

He should definitely be moving with the times though and can we see a smart and shrewd Clark to show he can maintain his ID as well please.

Actually a newspaper reporter is the best job ever for a superhero. A reporter doesnt have to stay in the office from 9-5. All you need is to submit reports and stuff, you dun even need to be in the office.

[Emissary of Justice]

Action Comics doesn't show a Fortress of Solitude much less hint that he even has one. He appears to have a base in Superman #2, but it looks nothing like Kryptonian tech seen in Action Comics or Supergirl. This is also a person that's done farm chores his whole life and lived in a small town. He wants a job, an attempt to contribute to society without a cape on.

It's also been hinted at why he sticks to newspaper and blogging, he doesn't want his face on the biggest news channel in the world everyday to prevent people from realizing he's Superman. If you look at how he dresses as Clark Kent in Action, he has a very homely, nerdy, and tough yet almost fragile look. Put him on television as a reporter and he'd be forced to change his appearance to the level that it does become glasses on, glasses off. His approach to Clark Kent in Action doesn't insult the intelligence of those around him.

[Jim Thompson]

Anyone else find it odd that DC made these big changes 'updating' the character for the modern age yet kept him as a newspaper reporter in the age of the Internet (and digital comics)?

At least in the 70's they made him a TV news anchor, another silly idea to be sure, but at least an updated resume...

I can understand the reporter job as being critical for information purposes in the 40's, 50's and 60's but given the state of newspapers these days which mostly consist of AP or Reuters recaps, the newspaper is the last place I go for up to date stories.

Being that Superman doesn't really need a job wouldn't a blogger or an independent journalist with ties to the Daily Planet been a better and more modern idea?Being an independent reporter would cut him off from a lot of information he'd otherwise have access to at a major media outlet, so that might not work out in well as practie as you seem to be suggesting. And being a newspaper reporter would seem better than some of the other formats out there simply because it would better allow him to remain known by name, but not by appearance.

[David Walton]

Newspapers are still a powerful force in the country, it's just they're faceless now.

Online stories are generally lifted from print media; and if not, print media is the source we look to for clarification about yesterday's 'breaking news.'

[Jim Thompson]

Newspapers are still a powerful force in the country, it's just they're faceless now.

Online stories are generally lifted from print media; and if not, print media is the source we look to for clarification about yesterday's 'breaking news.'Yeah, print media is not going away -- the medium people use to read stories is slowly transitioning, though, and the method of writing is changing. News stories initially used the inverted pryamid format, for example, because information and stories were passed along via telegraph lines -- and if the line got cut, the news organizations wanted to make sure the most important information out there was both front-loaded and free of extraneous material.

These days, that doesn't apply (and hasn't for a while), and the writing has grown because of that.

[Kilgore Trout]

Being an independent reporter would cut him off from a lot of information he'd otherwise have access to at a major media outlet, so that might not work out in well as practie as you seem to be suggesting. And being a newspaper reporter would seem better than some of the other formats out there simply because it would better allow him to remain known by name, but not by appearance.

He's still Superman right? It seems to me his access to information might not require having to work for a newspaper to get it... Unless one believe's that in 2011, Superman needs to read a newspaper for the latest, most up to date info.

I'm mostly just curious as to why DC dumped the uniform, the marriage and 70 years of continuity but kept him the same job he had in the 1930's.

I don't think its important for Clark Kent's name to be known by the general public, I think that's the point of the Clark Kent personality, but that's just me...

[Jim Thompson]

He's still Superman right? It seems to me his access to information might not require having to work for a newspaper to get it... Unless one believe's that in 2011, Superman needs to read a newspaper for the latest, most up to date info.Even someone with his incredible abilities can't be focused on all things at all times. Being at an organization that is dedicated to looking around and digging into what's happening in the world would be a tremendous boon to someone who was looking to stay alerted to issues and concerns both present and those in development. Just reading a paper would be completely reactive; being part of the staff that researches and explores what's going on would be more proactive.

[thwhtGuardian]

He's still Superman right? It seems to me his access to information might not require having to work for a newspaper to get it... Unless one believe's that in 2011, Superman needs to read a newspaper for the latest, most up to date info.

I'm mostly just curious as to why DC dumped the uniform, the marriage and 70 years of continuity but kept him the same job he had in the 1930's.

I don't think its important for Clark Kent's name to be known by the general public, I think that's the point of the Clark Kent personality, but that's just me...

Why ditch the job if it creates interesting subplots? The whole Clark getting "beat up" over the stories he's writing and the mystery informant bits are some of the more interesting parts of Action Comics right now.

Plus there's the idea that journalism is a skill that by and large is something that he had to learn and practice to be good at. He doesn't have a super writing power, it's something he's just developed on his own like any other human being, it's something that sort of puts a little breathing room between Clark Kent the person and Superman the hero.

[Kilgore Trout]

Why ditch the job if it creates interesting subplots? The whole Clark getting "beat up" over the stories he's writing and the mystery informant bits are some of the more interesting parts of Action Comics right now.

Well, they ditched the marriage which was supposed to create interesting subplots...(but never did).

It seems to me that they ditch stuff that created interesting subplots with every reboot; The Legion, Supergirl, the relationship with Batman, etc.

I was just curious that they'd update something as iconic as the uniform but keep him in a job little changed from the 19th century.

I can't remember the last time I ran out to pick up a newspaper for the latest news...

I'm not saying he shouldn't be in the information business, I'm just thinking that he shouldn't be in the dying dinosaur part of it.

[Jim Thompson]

Well, they ditched the marriage which was supposed to create interesting subplots...(but never did).But never did? We're three issues into Action and two into Superman; talk about a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude! :biggrin:

[Kilgore Trout]

But never did? We're three issues into Action and two into Superman; talk about a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude! :biggrin:

What does that even mean?

Did your hero Steve Jobs just stick with his telephone blue box scam or did he evolve along the way :biggrin:

I'm not looking for anything from Superman's comics. I'm just curious why they'd update Superman for the 21st century but leave him in a 19th century job.

[Jim Thompson]

What does that even mean?It means you're suggesting no interesting subplots have been created for Lois and Clark after the marriage was done away with just five combined issues into the new runs. They've barely had time to start, and you've already suggested they have not only failed, but that they will always be doomed to do so. Drink some decaf, mate!


I'm not looking for anything from Superman's comics. I'm just curious why they'd update Superman for the 21st century but leave him in a 19th century job.Actually, there were reporters long before the 19th Century -- and since they still exist today, it seems an acceptable role to have him in.

[Kilgore Trout]

It means you're suggesting no interesting subplots have been created for Lois and Clark after the marriage was done away with just five combined issues into the new runs. They've barely had time to start, and you've already suggested they have not only failed, but that they will always be doomed to do so. Drink some decaf, mate!.

Try a reading comprehension class, dude!

I was suggesting nothing of the kind.

I was referring to a poster who argued that Clark not being a reporter diminished many interesting subplots. I used the marriage to show that they get rid of things with potential 'interesting' subplots all the time.

It was not a complaint. It was a point of fact.

I'm the first one happy that the marriage and all it's 'interesting subplots' are history.

[Jim Thompson]

Hahahaha I agree with you...they should have him doing something like more up to date like with the internet, but the reporter is kinda phasing out, but at the same time that is what we are used to as well.Your talking format, as opposed to the work. Clark would still be a reporter; he'd just be using a different forum. Reporters haven't been "phased out" by any stretch of the imagination.

[Jim Thompson]

Try a reading comprehension class, dude!

I was suggesting nothing of the kind.

I was referring to a poster who argued that Clark not being a reporter diminished many interesting subplots. I used the marriage to show that they get rid of things with potential 'interesting' subplots all the time.

It was not a complaint. It was a point of fact.

I'm the first one happy that the marriage and all it's 'interesting subplots' are history.That's a wonderful expostion, but that's not got much to do with this:


Well, they ditched the marriage which was supposed to create interesting subplots...(but never did).You're making an unsupported assumption either way you look at this.

A.) The marriage generated no interesting sub-plots (which is wholly an opinion as you've forwarded it), or
B.) The new relationship status has generated no interesting sub-plots between the two characters, for which there hasn't been enough time to really say.

[thwhtGuardian]

Well, they ditched the marriage which was supposed to create interesting subplots...(but never did).

It seems to me that they ditch stuff that created interesting subplots with every reboot; The Legion, Supergirl, the relationship with Batman, etc.

I was just curious that they'd update something as iconic as the uniform but keep him in a job little changed from the 19th century.

I can't remember the last time I ran out to pick up a newspaper for the latest news...

I'm not saying he shouldn't be in the information business, I'm just thinking that he shouldn't be in the dying dinosaur part of it.

I think the never did part is important here, the marriage was ditched because although in theory it was meant to open up new kinds of stories... it never really did and actually seemed to be a hindrance to some writers so it was ditched.

Being an investigative journalist though? That has never seemed to hinder anyone, and can still be consistently used to create interesting stories.

And I don't get the aversion to the job in general, many people even today still go to school to be journalists and earn livings writing for papers so it's not as if his profession is something as anachronistic as say a telegraph operator in a modern setting would be.

[Lorendiac]

In reference to turning coal into diamonds, kalorama said:


Can't do that anymore (along with moving planets with his bare hands), post-COIE

I thought he still could -- he just doesn't talk about it much? Maybe he doesn't want to be accused of knocking the bottom out of the international diamond market? (Unlike the way Silver Age Superman might agree to publicly convert dozens of lumps of coal into diamonds and then let them be auctioned off at a charity fund-raiser, or whatever.)

A few years ago, maybe on another forum, I believe I asked about this because I wasn't sure if he'd done that little "coal into diamonds" stunt in the Post-COIE continuity or not . . . and someone else told me there was at least one time in modern continuity when Lois (after they'd been married for awhile) commented that she was getting tired of her husband giving her presents which consisted of diamonds he had personally created from lumps of coal!

Granted, this is just an old memory of secondhand information I heard from someone else, so I can't point to a specific issue and swear the proof is inside!

[Sam_Breakfast]

Don't really see what the big deal is. While newspapers may well be dying, they ain't dead yet, and there are still plenty of people making a living working for them.


Agreed.

Also, I still read newspapers.

[kalorama]

I was just curious that they'd update something as iconic as the uniform but keep him in a job little changed from the 19th century.

I find it amusing that with every iteration of this straw man of an argument, you move the timeline of its supposed obsolescence back further and further. First it was the 70s, then the 30s, now the 19th century. Of course, the whole thing is simply not true.

Journalism is very much an active profession in the 21st century. The foundation of the job (information gathering) has changed little. What has changed considerably are the processes and formats for production and delivery, a fact that is not only clearly reflected in the current Superman book, but has so far formed a major subplot for Clark's character and Lois and Clark's relationship. Most of the first issue (at least the part where he wasn't fighting a fire monster) was spent dealing with the fallout engendered by those changes. So all of this hue and cry about how the Superman relaunch has ignored the march of journalistic progression is nonsense. It not only hasn't ignored it, it's addressing it head on.

[kalorama]

It is silly to think that Clark Kent would ever need to work to pay the bills.

It's not about need. He doesn't need to eat or drink, but he does it anyway. Because doing it makes him feel human.

[Mat001]

It is silly to think that Clark Kent would ever need to work to pay the bills.

Why? Clark wants to live like one of us, as he's done his whole life. Just because he's Superman doesn't mean that it's his occupation. It's something that he does because of his powers and his moral responsibility. Clark Kent is who he is and how he sees himself. The persona that he projects in Metropolis is just a disguise, but everything else about him is very much himself.



He's still Superman right? It seems to me his access to information might not require having to work for a newspaper to get it... Unless one believe's that in 2011, Superman needs to read a newspaper for the latest, most up to date info.

Superman doesn't. Clark Kent does. While in the Daily Planet, he can become aware of disasters that require his handiwork, since he can only hear within Metropolis and the immediate areas outside of the city. He cannot be on patrol 24-7. As Clark Kent, he can expose the corrupt politicians, businessmen and criminals. As Clark Kent, he can speak up for the poor and the downtrodden who have no voice of their own. As Clark Kent, he can make people stop and think about their environment and their own morals. Being a reporter allows Clark the freedom to go out and do his work as Superman without attracting attention for his personal life. He's not Clark Kent, investigative journalist because he wants the attention. He's a reporter because of the freedom it allows and it allows him to speak about truth and justice.

[Crawford Crow]

Some things are not explained by necessity, but by preference. I know a man who has worked at the same job for 40 years, not because he has to, but because he likes it.
Could it be that Clark Kent loves his job?
"Hey, Clark, how come you're still doing the same job you've been doing the last 70 years?"
"Best job I ever had!"
"But wouldn't you like to have a job that's more high tech, more up to date?"
"Sure, but I'd have to give this up, and I like this too much!"
"Okay, whatever floats your boat."

[Kilgore Trout]

I find it amusing that with every iteration of this straw man of an argument, you move the timeline of its supposed obsolescence back further and further. First it was the 70s, then the 30s, now the 19th century. Of course, the whole thing is simply not true.

Journalism is very much an active profession in the 21st century. . So all of this hue and cry about how the Superman relaunch has ignored the march of journalistic progression is nonsense. It not only hasn't ignored it, it's addressing it head on.

I'm not making a straw-man argument and I never said investigative reporting was dead.

I was curious as to why DC declared this a Superman for the Modern Age by altering the suit, re-deading the parents, dissolving the marriage, tweaking the origin, but drew a line in the sand when it came to the job?

Is being a reporter for the Daily Planet the linch-pin that the Superman mythos revolves around?

How much of an investigative reporter is a person who can see through walls and hear a heartbeat from across the planet and why does he need a newspaper to support him?

[Mat001]

I'm not making a straw-man argument and I never said investigative reporting was dead.

I was curious as to why DC declared this a Superman for the Modern Age by altering the suit, re-deading the parents, dissolving the marriage, tweaking the origin, but drew a line in the sand when it came to the job?

Is being a reporter for the Daily Planet the linch-pin that the Superman mythos revolves around?

Save for the costume, everything else was about going back to basics. The costume was changed, as with most everyone else, to try and appeal to a new generation.


How much of an investigative reporter is a person who can see through walls and hear a heartbeat from across the planet and why does he need a newspaper to support him?

An investigative reporter still has to go out and do the leg work. An investigative reporter still has to go out and get a legitimate interviews, which can be printed, because otherwise, the paper could face a suit for false quotes. A good and respectable journalist must have permission to quote someone and must be credible by backing up his/her facts with evidence, otherwise you wind up like Stephen Glass.

As to needing a job, well, like I said, he wants to be just like you and I. He wants a career, a home, a family and friends. He wants to be like he was before he put on the suit, only now with the dual responsibility to the world as well as to himself.

[Lorendiac]

It is silly to think that Clark Kent would ever need to work to pay the bills.


It's not about need. He doesn't need to eat or drink, but he does it anyway. Because doing it makes him feel human.

Yeah, I think that's about what it comes down to. (Although I wasn't sure if he "needed" the occasional meal or not when his powers are at full strength.) Clark feels a psychological need to socialize with other people as an "equal," more or less. His preferred method just happens to involve holding down a job at the Daily Planet.

Or, to put it another way: I don't remember ever seeing Clark, when his powers were working properly, thinking anything along the following lines: "Man, if I lose this job and can't replace it with another one in a hurry, I may get evicted from the apartment, be unable to buy groceries, start looking ragged as my clothes wear out and I can't replace them, and finally end up begging for a place to sleep at a homeless shelter!"

Clark knows perfectly well that as far as "cash flow" is concerned, he could find other ways to make ends meet, thanks to his special powers, and DC has never tried to make us think otherwise!

[kalorama]

I was curious as to why DC declared this a Superman for the Modern Age by altering the suit, re-deading the parents, dissolving the marriage, tweaking the origin, but drew a line in the sand when it came to the job?

If you're really interested in the answer (and I can't help but wonder if you really aren't) then you should probably just keep reading. Because based on the content of the first couple of issues (I haven't read #3) it seems likely that addressing the question of "why Clark Kent is a reporter" is going to be a significant part of what Perez is doing with the first arc.

[T Hedge Coke]

If you're really interested in the answer (and I can't help but wonder if you really aren't) then you should probably just keep reading. Because based on the content of the first couple of issues (I haven't read #3) it seems likely that addressing the question of "why Clark Kent is a reporter" is going to be a significant part of what Perez is doing with the first arc.

It seems to weigh heavy in both Supes-series right now. As it probably should. Superman being a journalist has some decent gravitas and relevancy (though, judging from comics review sites, it's more important how Perez redrew his glasses).

I always appreciated Warren Ellis' work with Superman putting heavy emphasis on the heroism of a dedicated newsman. "I'm a journalist. I'll take a break when the world does." The mousiness and schlubbiness is and act, but the job isn't; it's his job.

[Kilgore Trout]

Because based on the content of the first couple of issues (I haven't read #3) it seems likely that addressing the question of "why Clark Kent is a reporter"

You're right. Its what got me thinking about this.

[MajorHoy]

Yeah they are great for finding out who is dating who and what the score of the game was, but news, only if that news is in the interest of the publisher or is just fluff news.

I'm curious where you live and what newspapers you were exposed to.

I live about an hour outside of NYC and tend to read The New York Times. It's amazing how often stories I read in that paper seem to become items on the local news programs a day or so later.

Also, if you watch the national news, you may notice there are frequently polls that are done in conjunction between the network and a major newspaper (like maybe CBS / New York Times).

Also, when I use to work in the news department of a small radio station a few decades ago, we'd constantly scan through newspapers for material that didn't shop up on the AP wire. (The AP would frequently have items that began as newspaper stories, by the way.)

Readership at newspapers may be down, but it's still an important form of media.

[MFitzH2O]

I figured with the re-boot, the Daily Planet would become a wire-service similar to the AP. Clark Kent would still be a reporter, the Planet would still be relevant, and we'd have an occupation that'd last well into the new century.

[Jer]

I actually like Clark still being a reporter. As a reporter, he's fighting hard to look for the truth and end corruption. As Superman, he's bringing these criminals to justice.

It works for me.

In Superman, Lois is the news network executive (I think that's her job title) and she tried to convince Clark to get onboard with her but he decided against it. So I guess he likes where he's at in life.

No shame in that I'm still getting good Superman stories so I'm not complaining.

[HardKore]

I'm curious where you live and what newspapers you were exposed to.

.

I'm from England where currently the word Journalist is synonymous with the word scum.

[MajorHoy]

I'm from England where currently the word Journalist is synonymous with the word scum.

I try to avoid the Murdoch papers here in the U.S. myself, so I can understand your feelings.

[loki lauyfeyson]

yeah for one an on camera news reporter just in alot of cases just "reads" the news there not much of a investigator. a newspaper investigative reporter works alot of the time out on the street chasing down leads perfect cover for clark to disappear when needed. how many times does he come back to daily planet after doing something as superman people ask where he was 'oh just chasing down a lead' it also explains away why clark seems to be so many places superman does, hes out reporting

[Hypestyle]

I'm wondering why he isn't allowed to have new girlfriends besides lois, if this is the "all new, new directions" version.. but anyway.. I say he should work for an alternative newsweekly.. not the ultra-corporate papers that own outlets in several cities, that are shedding staff annually to satisfy the board of directors..

[Flash Gordon]

Being that Superman doesn't really need a job wouldn't a blogger or an independent journalist with ties to the Daily Planet been a better and more modern idea?

No job? How would he wine and dine Ms. Lane? Much less, afford a place to live and food to eat. Clark doesn't really like to steal...

[The Batman]

I'm from England where currently the word Journalist is synonymous with the word scum.

Which is less about the profession and more about some high profile examples of people doing very bad things and calling it journalism.

[Lorendiac]

Being that Superman doesn't really need a job wouldn't a blogger or an independent journalist with ties to the Daily Planet been a better and more modern idea?


No job? How would he wine and dine Ms. Lane? Much less, afford a place to live and food to eat. Clark doesn't really like to steal...

We talked about this a bit, earlier in this thread. I think Kilgore Trout's point was that it's usually canonical that Superman can, any time he feels the urge, grab a piece of coal and squeeze it with his super-strength until the carbon molecules crystalize into a perfect diamond. Then he can sell it for thousands of dollars. That leaves him plenty of time and money for anything else he wants to do.

[Captain Smith]

The diamond market is pretty well controlled. If Clark Kent walks into a dealer with a slew of large perfect diamonds that will generate many questions.

I suggest:

1. He go back to the Kent farm and become an artisanal cheese maker.

2. He go back in time and get the first copy of the comic where Superman appears and sell it at auction. Say he found it in the Kent attic. :biggrin:

3. Go back in time and scarf up some midlevel rare coins and stamps - say his dad collected them.

4. Blackmail Bruce as he knows his secret identity.

[Lorendiac]

The diamond market is pretty well controlled. If Clark Kent walks into a dealer with a slew of large perfect diamonds that will generate many questions.

He doesn't have to walk into a dealer's place and dump a bushel of diamonds on the counter and say, "How much will you give me for the lot of them?" (Although that would certainly be a humorous scene! :smile: )

If he can produce one big diamond at a time that's worth thousands of dollars, then he could easily sell the diamonds one at a time, just a few of them in a year, and have plenty of spending money for an apartment, new suits, taking Lois (or whoever) out to dinner at a nice restaurant, etc.

And he doesn't have to sell them as "Clark Kent" either. He could disguise himself each time, use an alias, and always sell to a different dealer in some exotic corner of the world.

Imagine you're in the diamond business. A stranger walks in off the street, sells you one nice diamond at a fair price, and walks out. You don't see him again for a long time. Maybe five years later he comes back to sell one more lovely diamond. The diamonds he sells never match any notices you've received about recent jewel thefts. So what's so exciting about that?

(Or he could sell them several at a time, on the black market, to someone whose policy is to "ask no questions" about where the merchandise came from. He'd have to accept a smaller amount per diamond, but since he can literally create the silly things in a second or two, it wouldn't really hurt him in the pocketbook.)

[Captain Smith]

The really big nice diamonds are well known. To sell one that will generate income that will last for several years will be noticed. Doing it periodically will be notice. Big stones come with a provenance or history of ownership. They just don't appear as they've been seen as raw and have a history of being cut by well know specialists.

Next, a cash transaction of that size and the income will need to be reported to the Feds and IRS. And it will be.

Clark won't break the law by selling on the black market.

Last, the resale market for standard size diamonds is crappy as the cartels control tons of new diamonds.

Paying for big things with cash doesn't work well today. Again IRS or someone will detect such.

The diamond thing might work in the 1940's but not today.

[Oni Squirrel]

He doesn't have to walk into a dealer's place and dump a bushel of diamonds on the counter and say, "How much will you give me for the lot of them?" (Although that would certainly be a humorous scene! :smile: )

If he can produce one big diamond at a time that's worth thousands of dollars, then he could easily sell the diamonds one at a time, just a few of them in a year, and have plenty of spending money for an apartment, new suits, taking Lois (or whoever) out to dinner at a nice restaurant, etc.

And he doesn't have to sell them as "Clark Kent" either. He could disguise himself each time, use an alias, and always sell to a different dealer in some exotic corner of the world.

Imagine you're in the diamond business. A stranger walks in off the street, sells you one nice diamond at a fair price, and walks out. You don't see him again for a long time. Maybe five years later he comes back to sell one more lovely diamond. The diamonds he sells never match any notices you've received about recent jewel thefts. So what's so exciting about that?

(Or he could sell them several at a time, on the black market, to someone whose policy is to "ask no questions" about where the merchandise came from. He'd have to accept a smaller amount per diamond, but since he can literally create the silly things in a second or two, it wouldn't really hurt him in the pocketbook.)

I don't know that I'd be comfortable w/ a superman who operated like this. The idea of Clark Kent as an identity is it's Superman's way of staying in touch w/ humanity, or Clark Kent is his actual personality (depending on the goal of the writer). Using his powers to sustain that identity seems counter-intuitive to both versions.

[CaptCleghorn]

I don't know that I'd be comfortable w/ a superman who operated like this. The idea of Clark Kent as an identity is it's Superman's way of staying in touch w/ humanity, or Clark Kent is his actual personality (depending on the goal of the writer). Using his powers to sustain that identity seems counter-intuitive to both versions.

There's a fine line here. "Using powers for personal gain" is a big good-guy no-no, but I saw Clark reheat a leftover box of normally purchased Chinese takeout using his heat vision. Technically, he's using powers for personal gain, but is there anyone that would fault him for it?

Like the old joke goes, "we've already ascertained that, we're just haggling about price..."

As to the diamond selling, I could see Clark at least trying to sell his legally mined diamonds to a would be fence, trying to keep the fence from actually buying stolen property. Of course this would be a quick scene in the flashback Action series with a later scene explaining why he doesn't do that anymore.

[Captain Smith]

Supes could do construction jobs and make a fortune. But he would have to ditch the secret ID crappola.

He could also do geological prospecting and surveying.

Damn, give up the identity and be rich!

[Mat001]

There's a fine line here. "Using powers for personal gain" is a big good-guy no-no, but I saw Clark reheat a leftover box of normally purchased Chinese takeout using his heat vision. Technically, he's using powers for personal gain, but is there anyone that would fault him for it?

There's a difference between wanting cooked food or cold drinks quickly versus financial gain.


Like the old joke goes, "we've already ascertained that, we're just haggling about price..."

As to the diamond selling, I could see Clark at least trying to sell his legally mined diamonds to a would be fence, trying to keep the fence from actually buying stolen property. Of course this would be a quick scene in the flashback Action series with a later scene explaining why he doesn't do that anymore.

Which also goes against what the Kents raised him to believe. Clark has lived life as a simple, Midwestern farmer growing up. No matter when his powers developed and when he started doing heroic deeds, the bottom line is that Clark behaves normally. That means he eats, drinks, walks, talks and acts like you and me. He holds a steady job that pays sufficiently and lives in a modest apartment in Metropolis, where he can be closer to the action and where he can interact with his co-workers. That's why in the comics, Smallville remains in Kansas and Metropolis on the east coast, rather than in the Pre-Crisis Golden and Silver Age stories or in "Smallville", where it's closer together.


Supes could do construction jobs and make a fortune. But he would have to ditch the secret ID crappola.

A job like that doesn't afford time to go out and be Superman and a secret identity is very important, so no.

[T Hedge Coke]

There's a difference between wanting cooked food or cold drinks quickly versus financial gain.

And, even so, what sort of weird stay-in-your-place logic is that? Do the geniuses act stupid and the speedsters never quick-clean their apartment? Does Superman deliberately slow himself when typing or composing an article so as not to have a leg up on anyone else?

[MajorHoy]

Which also goes against what the Kents raised him to believe. Clark has lived life as a simple, Midwestern farmer growing up. No matter when his powers developed and when he started doing heroic deeds, the bottom line is that Clark behaves normally. That means he eats, drinks, walks, talks and acts like you and me. He holds a steady job that pays sufficiently and lives in a modest apartment in Metropolis, where he can be closer to the action and where he can interact with his co-workers.

By the way, since I'm not "reading" the new DCnU Superman titles, does any of the stuff with the Kents still hold water? Have they been shown or even mentioned in Action Comics or Superman yet? :confused:

[CaptCleghorn]

There's a difference between wanting cooked food or cold drinks quickly versus financial gain.

To you maybe. Is the guy on the beach unfair when he purchases a metal detector to look for buried coins? It's a line, and your line isn't going to be the same line as everybody else's. Superman using his X-ray vision on Lois to check for medical problems in Superman the Movie saves Lois both time and money. Also using X-ray vision to find a ring dropped down drain pipes is a purely financial gain. Which side of the line does that fall on?

My point is that Clark's line may not be where you think it is.


Which also goes against what the Kents raised him to believe. Clark has lived life as a simple, Midwestern farmer growing up. No matter when his powers developed and when he started doing heroic deeds, the bottom line is that Clark behaves normally. That means he eats, drinks, walks, talks and acts like you and me. He holds a steady job that pays sufficiently and lives in a modest apartment in Metropolis, where he can be closer to the action and where he can interact with his co-workers. That's why in the comics, Smallville remains in Kansas and Metropolis on the east coast, rather than in the Pre-Crisis Golden and Silver Age stories or in "Smallville", where it's closer together.

I'd doubt that the Kents would frown upon the solution of mining diamonds that aren't someone else's property. Using those diamonds to keep a fence from dealing in stolen goods and possibly using that money from the diamonds to help orphanages and the like (which he did a lot in the Golden Age) is a rather elegant solution and probably the plot for at least 22.6 stories in the 40s and 50s.

[Mat001]

And, even so, what sort of weird stay-in-your-place logic is that? Do the geniuses act stupid and the speedsters never quick-clean their apartment? Does Superman deliberately slow himself when typing or composing an article so as not to have a leg up on anyone else?

Clark has been shown to use his strength for mundane chores. In Adventures Of Superman #0, he lifted up the couch to move while he and Lois were repainting his apartment. Two years earlier, he and Lois made dinner and he showed that he didn't have oven mits or a step ladder when the smoke alarm went off. A month after the zero issue, he lit the candles for a romantic dinner with Lois. Wally's been shown picking up the dry cleaning in JLA #1 and going after a Christmas present for Linda in the 1997 DC Holiday Special, including running overseas.


By the way, since I'm not "reading" the new DCnU Superman titles, does any of the stuff with the Kents still hold water? Have they been shown or even mentioned in Action Comics or Superman yet? :confused:

I haven't either, but I have kept track and in AC #3, Clark visits their grave and apologizes for his recent failures. This indicates that they were still a big influence in his morals.


To you maybe. Is the guy on the beach unfair when he purchases a metal detector to look for buried coins?

The guy is doing it purely for quick and easy financial gain, versus the guy who finds it by accident while digging a sandcastle.


It's a line, and your line isn't going to be the same line as everybody else's. Superman using his X-ray vision on Lois to check for medical problems in Superman the Movie saves Lois both time and money.

He did it because he was concerned, not for time and money purposes.


Also using X-ray vision to find a ring dropped down drain pipes is a purely financial gain. Which side of the line does that fall on?

Clark never did that in the films. It's also why he seeks out the ring. In his case, it would be to recover it for someone. Not to pawn or seek a reward.


My point is that Clark's line may not be where you think it is.

Have you read the books?


I'd doubt that the Kents would frown upon the solution of mining diamonds that aren't someone else's property. Using those diamonds to keep a fence from dealing in stolen goods and possibly using that money from the diamonds to help orphanages and the like (which he did a lot in the Golden Age) is a rather elegant solution and probably the plot for at least 22.6 stories in the 40s and 50s.

Helping others is not financial gain. Helping himself is. In MOS #1, Jonathan gets upset with Clark because he's used his powers to win at sports. After showing him the Birthing Matrix and telling him how he came into their lives, Clark drops out of sports and after school, starts using his powers selflessly. In "Smallville", Jonathan gives Clark a similar speech about athletics. In the first film, Jonathan tells Clark that his gifts have a higher purpose other than winning football games. Jor-El tells him to be mindful of his feelings of pride and vanity.

[CaptCleghorn]

Clark has been shown to use his strength for mundane chores. In Adventures Of Superman #0, he lifted up the couch to move while he and Lois were repainting his apartment. Two years earlier, he and Lois made dinner and he showed that he didn't have oven mits or a step ladder when the smoke alarm went off. A month after the zero issue, he lit the candles for a romantic dinner with Lois. Wally's been shown picking up the dry cleaning in JLA #1 and going after a Christmas present for Linda in the 1997 DC Holiday Special, including running overseas.

So we have multiple instances of heroes using their abilities for personal gain. I maintain my argument of us arguing about degree and not "do they do it?" still holds.


I haven't either, but I have kept track and in AC #3, Clark visits their grave and apologizes for his recent failures. This indicates that they were still a big influence in his morals.

Agreed. Parents big influence all formats, all years.


The guy is doing it purely for quick and easy financial gain, versus the guy who finds it by accident while digging a sandcastle.

I'm asking if the metal detector guy is unfair for using the device. I think we both expect both parties to pocket the quarter they might find.


He did it because he was concerned, not for time and money purposes.

And if Supes had found something in her lung, I doubt Lois and Superman would have waited to get treatment or even paid out the money a professional X-Ray would have cost. Do you think they would have turned down the financial and time advantages X-Ray vision got them?


Clark never did that in the films. It's also why he seeks out the ring. In his case, it would be to recover it for someone. Not to pawn or seek a reward.

It's a hypothetical question. Let's say Clark drops his ring while changing or it falls out of his cape pocket while he's flying. I think it's on the OK side of his line, I'm asking which side it is on your idea of his line.


Have you read the books?

Some of them. I think his use of powers for personal gain is common sense oriented and there are points that could be construed as unfair such as when the other Metropolis paper doesn't get the Luthor thwarted scoop. But the question was, do Clark's actions all come on the proper side of the OK/not OK line as you see it?


Helping others is not financial gain. Helping himself is. In MOS #1, Jonathan gets upset with Clark because he's used his powers to win at sports. After showing him the Birthing Matrix and telling him how he came into their lives, Clark drops out of sports and after school, starts using his powers selflessly. In "Smallville", Jonathan gives Clark a similar speech about athletics. In the first film, Jonathan tells Clark that his gifts have a higher purpose other than winning football games. Jor-El tells him to be mindful of his feelings of pride and vanity.

It's not (BAD) financial gain unless he were to mine a pound of diamonds and give them to Lois, I'd guess. We all have a point where the gain is thought of as too much to be morally acceptable. Using his powers to help himself out on his reporter job while sending half his pay to Ma Kent isn't as ideal as one might think. The only extended 'Clark being able to be a reporter without his powers' sequence was during the one year later Kurt Busiek story "Up, Up and Away" (at least I think so). And the whole gist of this was that being Superman was actually hurting his job performance. This sequence did seem to be different from most other media and times when Clark was usually thought of as mild-mannered but a competent reporter. Other than that, I was never sure Clark was capable of the job without his powers. Does being a big name reporter for a NYT level newspaper as opposed to a QB for an NFL team mean it's OK to use his powers as an advantage to get and write stories?

[G. Boney]

Contrary to what they told us in The Goonies, the world isn''t filled with buried treasure just lying around waiting to be found

Maybe DC's world is, though. Isn't any more farfetched than Superman himself...

[Lorendiac]

I don't know that I'd be comfortable w/ a superman who operated like this. The idea of Clark Kent as an identity is it's Superman's way of staying in touch w/ humanity, or Clark Kent is his actual personality (depending on the goal of the writer). Using his powers to sustain that identity seems counter-intuitive to both versions.

You quoted a long post from me (about Clark selling diamonds in his spare time if he didn't have a regular job) as what you were responding to with the above paragraph. Here's the funny thing. I get the feeling that you thought your response was disagreeing with me. You weren't! In my heart, I agree with every word you just said about how it ought to be handled -- at least most of the time! (I can tolerate an occasional exception.)

Let's review the bidding.

In the Original Post that launched this thread, Kilgore Trout said Superman doesn't really need a job.

Flash Gordon, coming in late, questioned that part. Without a steady salary, how would Clark pay rent on an apartment every month, and so forth?

I responded by pointing out that Superman can create diamonds from coal whenever he feels the need.

Captain Smith started arguing that in practice it would be almost impossible for Superman (or Clark, or whatever he was calling himself that day) to use that trick on a regular basis as a way to give himself a large cash income in the modern world without making lots of waves and drawing unpleasant official scrutiny.

I felt Captain Smith was getting carried away, so I disagreed with him. What it comes down to is that I'm sure that if Clark really needed to raise a bunch of cash in a hurry, he would find a way to turn some big, beautiful, newly created diamonds into cold cash without leaving a trail that caused the FBI, the IRS, etc., to start a full investigation of "Clark Kent" as a suspected "diamond smuggler."

But all this was purely hypothetical -- what "could" happen under certain circumstances. And it all started just because I was trying to show Flash Gordon what Kilgore Trout had probably meant by a casual comment made in the original post!

That doesn't mean I want to see Clark supporting himself that way, in every issue of every Superman title, for the next ten or twenty years! \

In practice, I agree with you! I think it's a very good idea for Clark to spend a lot of his time socializing with other people on an "equal" basis -- instead of wearing the Superman costume 24/7 and then expecting people to gape in awe every time they meet him!

[Captain Smith]

Carried away - nope. Just interjecting knowledge into a comic book debate.

As far as buried treasure - I have a better plan. Europe is full of caches of old coins. The Brits constantly find vases of Roman gold, for instance.

If you find such, you get a pay off from the Government.

So, Clark and Lois go on vacation to the UK and take up metal detecting - as they do in the UK. Clark has scanned from space for a big Roman horde or other medevial stash of rare things.

Then, he and Lois go find it on vacation.

That would work. Or Clark takes up scuba - there are Spanish wrecks out there that can be found with normal gear.

Better plan than diamonds. And legit.

[Oni Squirrel]

You quoted a long post from me (about Clark selling diamonds in his spare time if he didn't have a regular job) as what you were responding to with the above paragraph. Here's the funny thing. I get the feeling that you thought your response was disagreeing with me. You weren't! In my heart, I agree with every word you just said about how it ought to be handled -- at least most of the time! (I can tolerate an occasional exception.)

Let's review the bidding.

In the Original Post that launched this thread, Kilgore Trout said Superman doesn't really need a job.

Flash Gordon, coming in late, questioned that part. Without a steady salary, how would Clark pay rent on an apartment every month, and so forth?

I responded by pointing out that Superman can create diamonds from coal whenever he feels the need.

Captain Smith started arguing that in practice it would be almost impossible for Superman (or Clark, or whatever he was calling himself that day) to use that trick on a regular basis as a way to give himself a large cash income in the modern world without making lots of waves and drawing unpleasant official scrutiny.

I felt Captain Smith was getting carried away, so I disagreed with him. What it comes down to is that I'm sure that if Clark really needed to raise a bunch of cash in a hurry, he would find a way to turn some big, beautiful, newly created diamonds into cold cash without leaving a trail that caused the FBI, the IRS, etc., to start a full investigation of "Clark Kent" as a suspected "diamond smuggler."

But all this was purely hypothetical -- what "could" happen under certain circumstances. And it all started just because I was trying to show Flash Gordon what Kilgore Trout had probably meant by a casual comment made in the original post!

That doesn't mean I want to see Clark supporting himself that way, in every issue of every Superman title, for the next ten or twenty years! \

In practice, I agree with you! I think it's a very good idea for Clark to spend a lot of his time socializing with other people on an "equal" basis -- instead of wearing the Superman costume 24/7 and then expecting people to gape in awe every time they meet him!

Reading through the entire thread I see that know. I wasn't so much disagreeing w/ you as responding to the post that I felt offered the strongest argument/alternative to the non-working superman.

[Lorendiac]

The really big nice diamonds are well known. To sell one that will generate income that will last for several years will be noticed. Doing it periodically will be notice. Big stones come with a provenance or history of ownership. They just don't appear as they've been seen as raw and have a history of being cut by well know specialists.

Next, a cash transaction of that size and the income will need to be reported to the Feds and IRS. And it will be.

Clark won't break the law by selling on the black market.

He wouldn't? Why not?

He is certainly capable of breaking local laws when he feels it's in a good cause. (For instance, he crosses international borders all the time without bothering to go through a customs inspection and produce a passport to be stamped.)


Paying for big things with cash doesn't work well today. Again IRS or someone will detect such.

I suppose I was working on the theory that after he had raised some thousands of dollars of cash from the sale of freshly-made diamonds, he would find a way to get it into a bank account so he could pay rent, etc., in a more conventional fashion. I definitely wasn't picturing him handing 1000 dollars (or whatever) to his landlord in crisp new hundred-dollar bills on the first day on each month!




Carried away - nope. Just interjecting knowledge into a comic book debate.

To clarify something: I am keenly aware that I know almost nothing about the intricacies of the international diamond market, including the theory and practice of how various governments try to keep an eye on the sales of precious stones as they move from owner to owner, and often from one nation to another. Likewise, I don't know just how "big" or "valuable" a stone has to be before everyone expects to know about its "provenance" if someone walks in off the street and tries to sell it to a dealer on the spur of the moment.

If you have any in-depth knowledge of the subject, then I'm sure that puts you way ahead of me in that area.

For instance! Suppose I, in the real world, have several diamonds which were each worth thousands of dollars apiece at "fair market value." I wouldn't even know where to start selling them. I might look in the local yellow pages for "diamond merchants" or some such listing, and then start asking questions of whomever picked up the phone at the other end.

On the other hand! If it were important to me to sell them in a way that would not leave any paper trail with my name attached to it, then I don't know which shop, in which city, in which country, would be a really good place for me to seek out a buyer. That is a question I have never really worried about before -- but I find myself suspecting that such things are much "looser" in some parts of the world than in others.

Since Superman can (and frequently does) move very quickly from one country to another, I take it for granted that if he were in that same situation, he would be able to find someone, somewhere, to buy those diamonds from him. Since the diamonds had not been stolen from anybody, I suspect he would regard selling them, even if there were something illegal about it in the country he selected (and there might not be?), as a "victimless crime."

From my point of view, what this could boil down to is that I think Clark (on a good day, when well-written) is capable of using his incredible powers to turn diamonds into cold cash without making lots of waves. I don't know exactly where he would have to go or what he would have to do in order to make such transactions, but I believe he would find a way that his conscience could live with.

You think he isn't capable of doing that in a world with the same controls on the diamond market as we see in the real world.

Until such time as DC's writers take an official stance on that point in a new story that's "canonical" in the DCnU as it is now developing . . . we won't really have any rock-solid "evidence" one way or the other, will we?

(And, of course, it's quite possible that if such a story is published, at least one of us will start complaining about what a lousy piece of plotting that was! :smile: )

P.S. By the way, you suggested he could find buried treasure with his X-Ray vision. One question about that -- why not "find" a buried treasure consisting of a large quantity of flawless diamonds which he had previously planted in a certain spot?

[Mat001]

So we have multiple instances of heroes using their abilities for personal gain. I maintain my argument of us arguing about degree and not "do they do it?" still holds.

That's not personal gain. You might think it is, but it isn't.


I'm asking if the metal detector guy is unfair for using the device. I think we both expect both parties to pocket the quarter they might find.

No, because in that instance, one is actively seeking out something and the other isn't.


And if Supes had found something in her lung, I doubt Lois and Superman would have waited to get treatment or even paid out the money a professional X-Ray would have cost. Do you think they would have turned down the financial and time advantages X-Ray vision got them?

Superman is not a doctor. He would tell Lois to get a professional opinion if he saw something that was cause for concern on his part.


It's a hypothetical question. Let's say Clark drops his ring while changing or it falls out of his cape pocket while he's flying. I think it's on the OK side of his line, I'm asking which side it is on your idea of his line.

That's not personal gain. We have different interpretations of what personal gain is. The line is crushing coal into diamonds so that he wouldn't have to work for a living. Helping his parents with repairs without using a hammer or picking up the tractor and moving it so that it's on a level ground, is not personal gain.


Some of them. I think his use of powers for personal gain is common sense oriented and there are points that could be construed as unfair such as when the other Metropolis paper doesn't get the Luthor thwarted scoop.

That was addressed in 1991. Clark was shown to be capable of getting a major scoop without using his powers, thus showing that he wasn't relying ont it that way. Anything that he gets as Superman is posed as Superman telling Clark Kent or he comes back as Clark and gets what he needs.


But the question was, do Clark's actions all come on the proper side of the OK/not OK line as you see it?

Of course they do. Otherwise, he wouldn't use them as he does.


It's not (BAD) financial gain unless he were to mine a pound of diamonds and give them to Lois, I'd guess.

In "Superman III", he replaced Lana's wedding ring because it meant a lot to her and it was his way of making it up to her. It was a gift and that's fine. Doing it all the time for himself, that's not fine.


We all have a point where the gain is thought of as too much to be morally acceptable. Using his powers to help himself out on his reporter job while sending half his pay to Ma Kent isn't as ideal as one might think. The only extended 'Clark being able to be a reporter without his powers' sequence was during the one year later Kurt Busiek story "Up, Up and Away" (at least I think so). And the whole gist of this was that being Superman was actually hurting his job performance. This sequence did seem to be different from most other media and times when Clark was usually thought of as mild-mannered but a competent reporter. Other than that, I was never sure Clark was capable of the job without his powers.

No, the problem was that it extended back to after "Our Worlds At War". Clark was spending more time as Superman and not doing his job with the same competence that he once had. Hence during "Strange New Visitor", Perry was forced to demote Clark which was then covered in the Ruin trilogy and the Gog duology. By the time of "52", Clark was on such thin ice that he was fired by Perry. But because he could dedicate himself to his personal life, he kept his job and got back on top of his game. In "Up, Up And Away", he had to find that balance again once he became Superman again. Which was then covered in the first half of "Camelot Falls". After "3-2-1 Action", "Redemption" and the rest of "Camelot Falls" came around, Clark was back to his old self. Turning in his stories and doing what he needed to do as Superman. Hence it was no longer an issue prior to the events of "Brainiac" and "The Coming Of Atlas".


Does being a big name reporter for a NYT level newspaper as opposed to a QB for an NFL team mean it's OK to use his powers as an advantage to get and write stories?

Being a newspaper reporter is about getting the truth out there to the public. Making sure that justice is done and the criminals exposed for the crooks that they are. Clark has to keep up his work in order to keep his job and thus afford his apartment. The awards Clark receives are accepted by him not as a mark of pride, but because he must maintain his facade of a normal guy. They also serve as reminders for Clark to continue his fight as Clark Kent as much as he does as Superman. In the MOS era, the high school trophies were only on display to show that he was normal and to help fool people into thinking that a guy like Clark couldn't be Superman. By showing off his football and track trophies and photos, he could justify his build. Same with the exercise equipment.

Being an athlete does nothing for anyone. It entertains people for three hours, but that's about it. It's personal and financial gain, since good players with good free agency make oddles of cash. Put it to you this way, outside of charity acts, what do athletes contribute outside of the sport? Not a whole lot and this isn't a slam against them, but an observation. A reporter gives more back to the community. Hence Clark makes less than Eli Manning, but does more for people as Clark Kent than Manning does.


He wouldn't? Why not?

He is certainly capable of breaking local laws when he feels it's in a good cause. (For instance, he crosses international borders all the time bothering to go through a customs inspection and produce a passport to be stamped.)

Local laws in Metropolis prior to "Flashpoint" weren't broken once he was deputized and given the thumbs-up by city hall. International laws, well, depending on the continuity, he's a citizen of the world in certain cases. Save for what he did in Quarc and recently in "The Incident", he was always welcomed. Even in spite of the laws passed after "World War III", which we saw in "Redemption" and "The Four Horsemen".

[Captain Smith]

Diamonds are found in very specific geological formations. The major ones are well known and owned by firms or governments.

Give it up on the diamond plan - if you really don't know something about the laws and market - you need to study up.

I can see the nice Jewish diamond merchants in NY, saying how come that nice big man comes in all the time with flawless diamonds. Oy, he looks like that Superman!

Like I said, real world knowledge can intrude on the comic world. It has this time.

Diamonds won't work.
Superman being a tax cheat, breaking laws, etc. - not his thing for a buck.

[pariah-1972]

It's been said that Superman needs to be Clark so he can be normal and relate to other people on a one to one basis, taking out his reporter job would kind of get in the way of that unless he were to find something else.

[CaptCleghorn]

Basically, Mat001, you don't think something is for personal gain unless it's extreme. I'm still standing by my point that it is personal gain, no matter how trivial the gain. At this point, we need to agree to disagree.

I am going to address your points about Clark's reporter job. If he's using his powers to help him with his job, he's doing the same type of thing as he would be doing playing for the local NFL team. His intentions are irrelevant. The Planet gets the story, but the non-powered human reporter gets beaten out of a job by Kent. The other papers and networks lose out on a scoop or the story altogether because the Superman interview Clark can always "get" may not be available immediately, if at all, to other reporters. Superman may help a lot of people by doing this job, but he can and does hurt others as well. But because of the total good caused by this, most of us are OK with him doing this.

And Clark proving he could be a star reporter without super powers doesn't mean he always did his job without using his powers. It's a nice piece to build up his confidence letting him and us know he CAN, but we all know Clark Kent's professional career was Kryptonian powers aided in some way.

There are shades of gray in Superman's life, as in any of ours.


That's not personal gain. You might think it is, but it isn't.

No, because in that instance, one is actively seeking out something and the other isn't.

Superman is not a doctor. He would tell Lois to get a professional opinion if he saw something that was cause for concern on his part.

That's not personal gain. We have different interpretations of what personal gain is. The line is crushing coal into diamonds so that he wouldn't have to work for a living. Helping his parents with repairs without using a hammer or picking up the tractor and moving it so that it's on a level ground, is not personal gain.

That was addressed in 1991. Clark was shown to be capable of getting a major scoop without using his powers, thus showing that he wasn't relying ont it that way. Anything that he gets as Superman is posed as Superman telling Clark Kent or he comes back as Clark and gets what he needs.

Of course they do. Otherwise, he wouldn't use them as he does.

In "Superman III", he replaced Lana's wedding ring because it meant a lot to her and it was his way of making it up to her. It was a gift and that's fine. Doing it all the time for himself, that's not fine.

No, the problem was that it extended back to after "Our Worlds At War". Clark was spending more time as Superman and not doing his job with the same competence that he once had. Hence during "Strange New Visitor", Perry was forced to demote Clark which was then covered in the Ruin trilogy and the Gog duology. By the time of "52", Clark was on such thin ice that he was fired by Perry. But because he could dedicate himself to his personal life, he kept his job and got back on top of his game. In "Up, Up And Away", he had to find that balance again once he became Superman again. Which was then covered in the first half of "Camelot Falls". After "3-2-1 Action", "Redemption" and the rest of "Camelot Falls" came around, Clark was back to his old self. Turning in his stories and doing what he needed to do as Superman. Hence it was no longer an issue prior to the events of "Brainiac" and "The Coming Of Atlas".

Being a newspaper reporter is about getting the truth out there to the public. Making sure that justice is done and the criminals exposed for the crooks that they are. Clark has to keep up his work in order to keep his job and thus afford his apartment. The awards Clark receives are accepted by him not as a mark of pride, but because he must maintain his facade of a normal guy. They also serve as reminders for Clark to continue his fight as Clark Kent as much as he does as Superman. In the MOS era, the high school trophies were only on display to show that he was normal and to help fool people into thinking that a guy like Clark couldn't be Superman. By showing off his football and track trophies and photos, he could justify his build. Same with the exercise equipment.

Being an athlete does nothing for anyone. It entertains people for three hours, but that's about it. It's personal and financial gain, since good players with good free agency make oddles of cash. Put it to you this way, outside of charity acts, what do athletes contribute outside of the sport? Not a whole lot and this isn't a slam against them, but an observation. A reporter gives more back to the community. Hence Clark makes less than Eli Manning, but does more for people as Clark Kent than Manning does.

Local laws in Metropolis prior to "Flashpoint" weren't broken once he was deputized and given the thumbs-up by city hall. International laws, well, depending on the continuity, he's a citizen of the world in certain cases. Save for what he did in Quarc and recently in "The Incident", he was always welcomed. Even in spite of the laws passed after "World War III", which we saw in "Redemption" and "The Four Horsemen".

[Mat001]

Basically, Mat001, you don't think something is for personal gain unless it's extreme. I'm still standing by my point that it is personal gain, no matter how trivial the gain. At this point, we need to agree to disagree.

It's not about degrees. There are things that are right and things that are wrong, which all center around selfishness and greed. Clark uses his powers to help others. He cannot switch them off at random, which to do so, would endanger himself and others. As he told Lois after they had gotten engaged, his not having hot pads and a footstool was more of a matter of not thinking about it, versus using his powers for personal gain. He was so used to his powers, that he never thought about it beyond the surface facts.


I am going to address your points about Clark's reporter job. If he's using his powers to help him with his job, he's doing the same type of thing as he would be doing playing for the local NFL team. His intentions are irrelevant. The Planet gets the story, but the non-powered human reporter gets beaten out of a job by Kent. The other papers and networks lose out on a scoop or the story altogether because the Superman interview Clark can always "get" may not be available immediately, if at all, to other reporters. Superman may help a lot of people by doing this job, but he can and does hurt others as well. But because of the total good caused by this, most of us are OK with him doing this.

Not true. Lois earned her stories without his allowing her to do so. She earned it the hard way as she always had. Same with Toby Raines over at the Star. All reporters get the scoop, regardless of who gets it first which only has to do with ratings and circulation. Lois and Cat Grant won as many awards as Clark has. The only part of his powers that affect his work is the fact that he's a fast typer. Every interview was done without his powers. Sure, he arrives first, but he's often busy fighting or rescuing someone, which doesn't make him any different from anyone else.


And Clark proving he could be a star reporter without super powers doesn't mean he always did his job without using his powers. It's a nice piece to build up his confidence letting him and us know he CAN, but we all know Clark Kent's professional career was Kryptonian powers aided in some way.

It wasn't about feeling good. It was about proving to Lois that he was just as good as her, despite what she deemed an unfair advantage.