Why did you stop reading Marvel comics?

[Alan Smithee]

Fans who quit comics no doubt read this board if only to keep up with artist/writer changes, spoilers and issue summaries.

I quit reading comics with the penultimate issue of Siege. There were still a couple books I was interested in, but it seemed like a bother to go buy the TPB.

I think it was Hylerstyle who had as his sig his pull list. Each really excellent book followed with the word "canceled." I know there are people on these boards who quit buying comic books because a) they were upset with a dollar price increase in a time of economic doldrums or b) they got sick of the hype about events or c) they woke up and realized they were 34 or d) Bendis sux.

This is not a poll, but a forum for other Marvel Zombies who relatively recently quit reading comcs.

[Blue Blazes]

i stopped initially in the late 90s during the end of the clone saga (also about the time i moved away to college), came back a few years ago when Nova had the new series and have been back since. making more money has allowed me the opportunity to try several other series and i think im getting as much or more dc than marvel now.

[Dog]

Sorry. This is not a poll, but I want to know the views of other (I guess largely Marvel Zombies) just drop all books and stay here because you want to know what the hell is going on.
How specious. What a waste of time and intellectual allocation.

I'm back now (obviously), but I once stopped buying when I went to college. Booze, broads, and books were more persuasive attractors of my attention and limited capital.

[Songbird/Diamondback]

If Academy, Thunderbolts and Gen Hope all get canceled and I can't find good enough replacements, i may stop.

[mattbib]

This is not a poll, but a forum for other Marvel Zombies who relatively recently quit reading comcs.
If you quit reading Marvel comics, you're not really a Marvel Zombie now, are you? The term pretty much intimates that you blindly read Marvel comics no matter what.

[Alan Smithee]

If you quit reading Marvel comics, you're not really a Marvel Zombie now, are you? The term pretty much intimates that you blindly read Marvel comics no matter what.

Man, didn't know you had the Oxford English Dictionary for a definitive definition of Marvel Zombie.

OK: People who primarily read and have read for most of their lives Marvel comics, but who recently quit comics in general because Marvel in particular seemed like a waste of time, and that you had planned to pick up trades and a series or two but since it seemed like a hassle, quit buying comics anyway.

How's that?

EDIT:

If I quit reading Marvel comics I can't be a Marvel Zombie? Uh, which came first, the chicken or the egg?

[CyberHubbs]

What if they quit Marvel but still read Crossgen?

[Chiasm]

Marvel is what got me interested in comics in the mid 1980's. Marvel is what I bought nearly exclusively for the next 25 years, sometimes to the tune of 25-30 books a month. Marvel is the company in which I have a 400+ issue run of Uncanny X-men and 300 plus issue runs of Spidey and some Avengers books. $3.99 is the reason I ended it all. I still read the Marvel forums and have an interest in Marvel because its what I read for over 25 years but right now I'm only collecting two Marvel books: X-men Legacy and Annihilators. I'll be leaving Legacy in an issue or two with Mike Carey and Annihilators is a mini. It makes me sad but when DC is putting out equally good books for a $1.00 less I'd be crazy not to go to DC.

[mattbib]

If I quit reading Marvel comics I can't be a Marvel Zombie? Uh, which came first, the chicken or the egg?No. One precludes the other.

Like I said, I'm pretty certain the term arose from fans who blindly follow the books. In the heydey I believe it was actually applied to those readers who bought every Marvel title, and only Marvel titles.

[Alan Smithee]

No. One precludes the other.

Like I said, I'm pretty certain the term arose from fans who blindly follow the books. In the heydey I believe it was actually applied to those readers who bought every Marvel title, and only Marvel titles.

Your "I'm-pretty-certain" level of objectivity and your overly-literal response to my OP is evidence that you:

1) Argue semantics instead of ideas. Chicken and egg, really?

Paleontologists pretty much agree for the time being that birds today are the descendants of dinosaurs. So, as far as the chicken-and-the-egg question, the answer is obviously whatever evolutionary blip made a dino a bird.

2) Argue semantics instead of ideas.

No self-respecting Marvel Zombie wouldn't be insulted by your insinuation that we didn't buy other books from the small pubs or the big deuce. I had four titles that were non-Marvel which I dropped after dropping Marvel.

Why hijack this thread with nit-picking baloney? Still smarting from that getting smoked on the MU layoffs?

[CyberHubbs]

This is about to get real good.

[Ned McDodd]

at the moment i read from Marvel only the Oz Books and picked up recently the first Crossgen trades. I used to read Spider-man, Avengers and X-men books, but i lost interest, for me it got too repetitive and i lost interest. Although, I wanna pick up the new ultimate spider-man in trade to see if it's a good start for a comeback.

[CromagnonMan]

I think if you quit reading Marvel at the end of Siege you are missing some great stuff recently. and what is a long-time Marvel reader doing reading Siege anyway? Those events are to dupe the newbie fans out of their dosh.

[C. Earl]

There were way too many books I wanted that were $3.99 and only took me five or seven minutes to read...

[Alan Smithee]

I think if you quit reading Marvel at the end of Siege you are missing some great stuff recently. and what is a long-time Marvel reader doing reading Siege anyway? Those events are to dupe the newbie fans out of their dosh.

I don't feel like I'm missing anything. And what self-respecting (ahem) MARVEL ZOMBIE would read Siege? You're saying you didn't read it? And how can these events dupe noobs into reading Marvel when readership is down? There are no noobs.

[Alan Smithee]

Marvel is what got me interested in comics in the mid 1980's. Marvel is what I bought nearly exclusively for the next 25 years, sometimes to the tune of 25-30 books a month. Marvel is the company in which I have a 400+ issue run of Uncanny X-men and 300 plus issue runs of Spidey and some Avengers books. $3.99 is the reason I ended it all. I still read the Marvel forums and have an interest in Marvel because its what I read for over 25 years but right now I'm only collecting two Marvel books: X-men Legacy and Annihilators. I'll be leaving Legacy in an issue or two with Mike Carey and Annihilators is a mini. It makes me sad but when DC is putting out equally good books for a $1.00 less I'd be crazy not to go to DC.

Yeah, but you're saying that Marvel and DC are pretty interchangeable, Big Red. Each comic has its devotees, for various reasons, and can you just sub out DC for Marvel?

[paulski]

Seeing as how this thread may well be locked when I next log on here... :wink:


No. One precludes the other.

Like I said, I'm pretty certain the term arose from fans who blindly follow the books. In the heydey I believe it was actually applied to those readers who bought every Marvel title, and only Marvel titles.

Pretty much. Lord knows I'm not afraid to 'argue the point' with the Marvel mods when I feel it's warranted, but Matt is basically right here with his definition of the term. You ain't a Marvel Zombie if you bought other companies' books, sorry. The only thing I would perhaps suggest however is that you didn't necessarily need to buy every single title to earn the term - that would be pretty unrealistic in recent years - but it's at least expected that you picked up a veritable bucket load every month. And only Marvel.

[CromagnonMan]

I don't feel like I'm missing anything. And what self-respecting (ahem) MARVEL ZOMBIE would read Siege? You're saying you didn't read it? And how can these events dupe noobs into reading Marvel when readership is down? There are no noobs.

no, i didnt read Siege, though i understand it had something to do with Norman Osborn, there was a big fight and he got taken down. The End.

the events are to dupe the masses of undiscerning Marvel readers who are responsible for the amount of dreck that is churned out month after month.

for the more discerning reader, there are some great titles to choose from at the moment (and no not Fear Itself)

[Alan Smithee]

Seeing as how this thread may well be locked when I next log on here... :wink:



Pretty much. Lord knows I'm not afraid to 'argue the point' with the Marvel mods when I feel it's warranted, but Matt is basically right here with his definition of the term. You ain't a Marvel Zombie if you bought other companies' books, sorry. The only thing I would perhaps suggest however is that you didn't necessarily need to buy every single title to earn the term - that would be pretty unrealistic in recent years - but it's at least expected that you picked up a veritable bucket load every month. And only Marvel.

Again, misdirection by way of dwelling on semantics. Argue over the definition of a Marvel Zombie and ignore the fact that a fan of one company or the other decided to quit comics in general when their comix company of choice started to really blow.

Give me something I can work with; spare me the variations on what you or anybody consider a zombie. And, oh heavens, I engaged a mod in an argument? Man, set your danger meter a little higher, eh?

[Alan Smithee]

no, i didnt read Siege, though i understand it had something to do with Norman Osborn, there was a big fight and he got taken down. The End.

the events are to dupe the masses of undiscerning Marvel readers who are responsible for the amount of dreck that is churned out month after month.

for the more discerning reader, there are some great titles to choose from at the moment (and no not Fear Itself)

Yeah, suuurrreee. Yeah, it had "something to do with Norman Osborn." But you knew that.:biggrin:

[Alan Smithee]

at the moment i read from Marvel only the Oz Books and picked up recently the first Crossgen trades. I used to read Spider-man, Avengers and X-men books, but i lost interest, for me it got too repetitive and i lost interest. Although, I wanna pick up the new ultimate spider-man in trade to see if it's a good start for a comeback.

I totally relate. There are some titles that I want to pick up -- Ult Spidey among them--but there aren't enough titles/reasons to go to the funny book store.

[the4thpip]

I almost completely quit Marvel for a while because I don't much care for Brian Bendis and Mark Millar, so having them basically take over the spine of the Marvel U and having events they masterminded influence every book I was reading made not enjoy those books anymore. And I don't spend money on books I don't enjoy.

I got back on board when I discovered the Hulk and Herc books by Pak and van Lente in trades. Also getting Waid's Daredevil, Abnett & Lanning's New Mutants and (sob!) Alpha Flight.

[CromagnonMan]

Yeah, suuurrreee. Yeah, it had "something to do with Norman Osborn." But you knew that.:biggrin:

again i havnt read Fear Itself, but i dont need to.....a villain called "The Serpent" causes trouble, there is a big fight, he gets taken down. The End.

This is just my best guess based on the online info ive happened across. Why waste close to $30 to read that cack??

[SilverZeal]

Its simple....Marvel keeps shoving around d same xcters iover & over n2 so many buks @ d expense of other xcters who r still stuk in limbo which has been done so many times repeatedly & continuously dat we just gave-up & thank god DC providing a gr8 alternative given d diversity dey hv estan=blished in d NEW 52 where severl xcter get 2 shine on their own merit.

D other is Marvel keep teling nothing but lies & lip-service several metagazillion time more dan dey do tell truths on their intents.

We recommend y'all go try DC's new 52 buks....dey r d bomb.

[CromagnonMan]

Its simple....Marvel keeps shoving around d same xcters iover & over n2 so many buks @ d expense of other xcters who r still stuk in limbo which has been done so many times repeatedly & continuously dat we just gave-up & thank god DC providing a gr8 alternative given d diversity dey hv estan=blished in d NEW 52 where severl xcter get 2 shine on their own merit.

D other is Marvel keep teling nothing but lies & lip-service several metagazillion time more dan dey do tell truths on their intents.

We recommend y'all go try DC's new 52 buks....dey r d bomb.

shirley, you cant be serious

[the4thpip]

Does "xcter" stand for "exiter" or "exciter" or "X-Character" or "Christcaterer"?

I am having trouble reading the shorthand here.

[Walsh06]

Again, misdirection by way of dwelling on semantics. Argue over the definition of a Marvel Zombie and ignore the fact that a fan of one company or the other decided to quit comics in general when their comix company of choice started to really blow.

Give me something I can work with; spare me the variations on what you or anybody consider a zombie. And, oh heavens, I engaged a mod in an argument? Man, set your danger meter a little higher, eh?

Thats not a topic for argument or debate. Its simply you stating facts about yourself....

[Rasputin9977]

I'm going to be down to three title. Alpha Flight is going to be cancelled and Venom is forcing us to buy three books next year so I'm dropping it soon. I used o get about.20 Marvel issues a few years ago.

[SpideyCzar]

I haven't stopped. Only time I stopped for a brief time was around the middle of the Clone Saga. Took a few years off, and came back.

I did drop DC once they launched the New 52 Gimmick.

[Dog]

...Venom is forcing us to buy three books next year...
How's that?

[Rasputin9977]

How's that?

The pointless . three issues during the xover.

[Dog]

The pointless . three issues during the xover.
That's all within the Venom title.

Plenty of books double ship all the time. We're not sure how exactly they'll schedule this, so it might not be much different.

[Rasputin9977]

That's all within the Venom title.

Plenty of books double ship all the time. We're not sure how exactly they'll schedule this, so it might not be much different.

I dont need another of Marvel's cheerleaders to tell me its the same book. It's the same book but its going to come out in the dame month. Ridiculous gimmick so I'm dropping it.

[Hero Girl]

Cost.

My budget could possibly afford one more comic. I blame it on being needing to follow every X-Book (except Daken without Way/Liu)

[Dog]

I dont need another of Marvel's cheerleaders to tell me its the same book.
This seems unnecessary.

[crossword]

Because Bendis killed Alpha Flight off in a completely BS manner. I came back to Marvel when they did. Once this current series ends I'll stop buying until a new book with them comes out.

[CaptainMarvell]

It was the mid 90's, I barely had any money, there wasn't a comic shop near by and the price of comics went up. Really bummed me out back then. But now I'm an adult and there's two comic stores near me and I'm back on it.

[CyberHubbs]

I dont need another of Marvel's cheerleaders to tell me its the same book. It's the same book but its going to come out in the dame month. Ridiculous gimmick so I'm dropping it.

Good to see you're leaving.

[Alan Smithee]

Its simple....Marvel keeps shoving around d same xcters iover & over n2 so many buks @ d expense of other xcters who r still stuk in limbo which has been done so many times repeatedly & continuously dat we just gave-up & thank god DC providing a gr8 alternative given d diversity dey hv estan=blished in d NEW 52 where severl xcter get 2 shine on their own merit.

D other is Marvel keep teling nothing but lies & lip-service several metagazillion time more dan dey do tell truths on their intents.

We recommend y'all go try DC's new 52 buks....dey r d bomb.

I wasn't crazy about Namor vanishing into the x-verse. Glad some people found DC a better place. Unfortunately, I originally called this thread "Why did you quit reading comic books (Marvel version)" and hoped someone on the DC side would follow suit. But the moderators or whatever changed it to "Why did you stop reading Marvel?"

In any case, the number of books I was unhappy with reached a critical mass to the point where I just stopped going to the LCS, even though there were Marvel and non-Marvel books I still liked. It just wasn't worth the effort.

[Gaastra]

Started in the 80s, 50 to 75 cents was a great price for a kid. 90s had tons of books i got. Prices went up, book got dumped.

Huge avengers fan. Made it through heroes reborn, crossing and other bad stories. None of them drove me off the book, then bendis made that crappy wanda is crazy out of nowhere story. I had faith and read the book every month. Then one day i saw the book was never going to go anywhere.
Lets have the avengers fight the hood for 12 issues. Let's sit and eat half the issue. Bendis got me to do what none of the others could. Drop avengers!

Left spidey with "it's magic."

Crossovers. To many. I can't pay for all of them and i'm sick of them. Let's play a game. How many book can you count that made it a whole year without crossing over into another! Let a book stand on it's own blast it!

[Malevolent1]

1) My favorite character does not have an ongoing (Silver Surfer)
2) My second favorite character just isn't the character his maker intended him to be at his inception (Thor). Can you imagine how powerful Thor would be if Marvel treated that character the way DC treats Superman?
3) My third favorite character just hasn't done much since his mini in '08 (Blue Marvel)


Nothing else at Marvel is really grabbing my attention right now.

[whiteshark]

Clone Saga.

Ughh.


After that i took a few years brake collecting comics of my favorite super hero.
And started reading on and off some comics.

Just got back enjoying reading much comics as before the Clone Sage,during BND.
And ever since BND i think Marvel comics are great.Especially the Spider-Man comics.
The only thing i dont like about Marvel comics now,is that the variety of comics now is of quality.And makes it real dificult to somebody as me to choose comics up to my limited budget to comics.:frown:

I collect more or less,ten comics per month but there are always a couple more which i would not mind getting as well.

[RDMacQ]

A combination of factors. One being cost. I have less money to spend on luxuries like comics, so I'm buying a lot less. The other being a lack of interest in a lot of the products being put out by Marvel. There seems to be a glut of comics and no real focus for the direction of the company, especially since they seem to just follow the same patterns and- after a while- the "magic" wears off and it just becomes very tiring.

[David_99]

Carlie Cooper.

Came back for Alpha Flight and will be leaving with the final issue of Alpha Flight.

[Spaced]

Haven't completely left but cut down a lot mainly due to:

Cost
Favourite books being cancelled
Not liking creative teams on ongoings I'd been buying for years

[Deep_Sleeper]

I can't recall exactly, but I stopped reading comics before going off to university. I think the timing was about right. I was about to start a new part of my life. Before I went to university, I was living in an area that did not have a comic store, so it was easy to avoid them. Also, most of the artists I liked were working on books that didn't have the characters I liked.

Jim Lee had moved from X-Men to WildC.A.T.s to nothing I can remember him doing steady. At the time, WildC.A.T.s was being drawn by some hack called Travis Charest (years later, I came to find out that Travis Charest went from drawing characters looking all flat and rotund to this amazing artist who added depth and detail that has to be seen to be believed).

Sure enough, as soon as I got to University, the campus had a comic store. I flipped through comics like Savage Dragon and picked up trade paperbacks of books like Watchmen, The Dark Knight Returns, Batman: Year One, etc.

Then I dropped out of University and came back home. My family had moved again and we lived close to this mall that had a comic shop.

Planetary and Authority were the books that was garnering the most acclaim. I got hooked again.

[Hulk_Is]

Well, sigh, I stopped reading when Marvel became the world's leading comic books publisher. You see, they produce so many comics that I've become overwhelmed. And, the neverending events? Omg... don't get me started on those. I mean, who wants to see superheroes take on world-encompassing threats, that's not what superheroes do. When their world is attacked and being smashed apart this destruction shouldn't be reflected in the books, am I rght?

$3.99?!? That's madness! That's like $100 in comic book money. :eek:

The thing that really made me want to stop reading Marvel comics was the fact that I get to interact with Marvel creators on CBR. Yeah. They take their time out to associate here when they could be working slavishly over unfinished comics. But, I got news for them, oh yes I do. And, I will insult them every chance I get.

Blow Mine Marvel. :mad:

Annnnd, end scene. Whew... so, that's that's what it feels like to be an irrate and irrational fanboy, is it? Takes alot out of ya. :P

[B. Kuwanger]

At the time, WildC.A.T.s was being drawn by some hack called Travis Charest (years later, I came to find out that Travis Charest went from drawing characters looking all flat and rotund to this amazing artist who added depth and detail that has to be seen to be believed).

Yeah, that was always one of the funniest things to me. His first cover was the best thing about Skaar.

[Deep_Sleeper]

Well, sigh, I stopped reading when Marvel became the world's leading comic books publisher. You see, they produce so many comics that I've become overwhelmed. And, the neverending events? Omg... don't get me started on those. I mean, who wants to see superheroes take on world-encompassing threats, that's not what superheroes do. When their world is attacked and being smashed apart this destruction shouldn't be reflected in the books, am I rght?

$3.99?!? That's madness! That's like $100 in comic book money. :eek:

The thing that really made me want to stop reading Marvel comics was the fact that I get to interact with Marvel creators on CBR. Yeah. They take their time out to associate here when they could be working slavishly over unfinished comics. But, I got news for them, oh yes I do. And, I will insult them every chance I get.

Blow Mine Marvel. :mad:

Annnnd, end scene. Whew... so, that's that's what it feels like to be an irrate and irrational fanboy, is it? Takes alot out of ya. :P

LOL! Awesome!

[MonteMike72]

It was a gradual leaving for me. I think that marvel has diluted there properties so much that I just don't care for any of them any more. There just isn't anything special about the characters anymore.

[lobsterj]

quit after the final issues of civil war and the final two issues of civil war front line because they were that bad. came back a year or so later when i started working at a comic store, quite again a year or so after that. when i look at the price increases, the decreased page counts, and the behavior of certain creative people on these boards, i have no desire to go back to buying marvel comics. i do take advantage of my state library system to keep up with some titles, like captain america.

[Ray B.]

Well I don't "hate" Marvel it's just most of my favorite characters don't have a book that may change so yeah.

[Chiasm]

Yeah, but you're saying that Marvel and DC are pretty interchangeable, Big Red. Each comic has its devotees, for various reasons, and can you just sub out DC for Marvel?

It depends on what you like. If you only care about reading your favorite character even if the entire issue is just he / she eating a sandwich and taking a dump then I guess your stuck. If you care about reading well told and interesting stories, regardless of main character, that leave you wanting to read more then you can find plenty of good books in both companies (and bad ones too in both). I want good stories that interest me and when I can buy four DC books for the price of three Marvel books its utterly crazy not to try DC. I bought about half the DC #1's and of those I bought there were some clunkers, a lot of good to average ones, and a few amazing ones. What really surprised me most was that three of the most amazing ones were books I nearly didn't buy (and wouldn't have at Marvel costs since I'd have bought fewer books). If DC was $3.99 I would never have discovered the sheer greatness of Animal Man, I Vampire, and Batwoman. And if DC was $3.99 I'd be more upset having wasted money on books like Justice League International and Red Lanterns. I'm sure that if money was not a consideration I could find three books from Marvel that awe me as much as the three DC ones I mention but money is an issue so I'm gonna go with being able to get more bang out of my buck every time when there is equal quality to be found at the lower price.

[Joe Franklin]

Lol, I like how people say they stopped reading Marvel comics, and then they know more about the current Marvel title story lines then those of us who are still reading them?

Bluff called. :wink:

[Pixie_Solanas]

I dropped comics in the 90s because the 90s were a cesspool.

[vh4ever]

Heroes Reborn in 1996. ASM reached #400. Thought it was a good jump off point, came back to Avengers franchise UNTIL Bendis, quit again at #503. Haven't read a page since.

I'm reading Marvel again, about 12-15 titles, and having abandoned DC with the 'new' 52, that and the few indie books I support, that's enough.

[Chiasm]

Lol, I like how people say they stopped reading Marvel comics, and then they know more about the current Marvel title story lines then those of us who are still reading them?

Bluff called. :wink:

I haven't read a non "Legacy" X-men book in over a year. I can sum up whats gone on in X-men though this easily: Scott and Logan had yet another pissing match and decided to split up and the mutants basically split in equal camps to one or the other side. And I didn't have to spend $20.00 on Schism to know that, I just had to read one of the gazillion articles or threads here about it.

A bunch of hammers fell to Earth and whoever was strong enough to pick them turned into killing machines. Something to do with Thor / Odin. A bunch of filler issues go by. Thor manages to defeat the big bad, hammer people lose power and get defeated, heroes win. I think I read that Thor is currently dead *sales stunt*. Now if I'd actually read Crap Itself I'm sure I could give more specific details but I can get the gist once again just reading any of the many horrid reviews about the series here (I actually did read the first two issues).

Everyone in New York City has Spidey powers now. Chaos ensues.

Seriously, its not hard to have an idea of whats going on in various books even if you don't read them. You just have to post on the forum a bit.

[zebop]

We recommend y'all go try DC's new 52 buks....dey r d bomb.

Here's the thing about the New 52. Some were good. Most were mediocre. A few were terrible.

ALL of them were forgettable. Nothing I read in the New 52 reinvented the wheel or rekindled the excitement I once got from a stack of comic books. And since DC has started to slip more $3.99 titles into the mix along with their $2.99 titles, we can kiss that smug "Holding the Line at $2.99" slogan bye-bye.

Back to Marvel though. Here's what I'm not reading.

All X-Men titles.
All Wolverine titles.
The Fantastic Foundation
All Spider-Man titles
All Hulk titles

Here's what I am reading.

Avengers, New Avengers, Secret Avengers,
Captain America
Invincible Iron Man
The Punisher (616 & MAX)
Daredevil
Thor

That's about it. I dig Criminal, but there's nothing much else going on in the Marvel Universe that much interests me. I'm ready to bail on The Avengers because I'm as tired of reading Bendis as he seems to be writing it. I mean, The Dark Avengers, again? Really?

I used to read comics for fun. Then it became an occasional vice. Now it's a habit and one I'm increasingly paying more for and enjoying a lot less.

That's a sign it's probably past time to kick this habit. :cool:

[paulski]

shirley, you cant be serious


Does "xcter" stand for "exiter" or "exciter" or "X-Character" or "Christcaterer"?

I am having trouble reading the shorthand here.

I think you guys are trying to read too much into his posts. Please just accept that he is 'd bomb'.

[Silvermoth]

I have to admit, the whole Disney thing turned me off. Also Marvel seems so shamelessly consumerist now. They just fired a bunch of people for no reason and all their stories have all been done before.

They have a few interesting ideas here and there but most of the time Marvel just seems old fashioned now, constantly chasing after toy sales.

It's a shame because the last decade was so good for them. They're stories were magnificent.

[direction9]

Here's the thing about the New 52.

ALL of them were forgettable.


100% horsepoop right there

[Chris Beveridge]

I started reading Marvel Comics back with the 6th issues of the Star Wars books in the 70's and then went on a year or two later to reading lots of stuff that I could get on the newsstand as a kid, riding my bike downtown with friends and going that route. Picked up when I got my first taste of the direct market a few years later with subscriptions (still as a kid, supported by my parents because it had me reading) and then buying plenty until the early 90's. It's when things started becoming more ego/artist driven that I was driven out. I hated what happened to Claremont with the X-Men in how at the time it was portrayed as the artists new better, then the whole Image formation event and the way everything was all about holofoil, die cut, variants, and so forth. it gimmicked me out and I left entirely.

I tried coming back in the mid 2000's with Civil War. Liked it alright, but between reading that and sampling some Ultimates, Marvel was giving me what I didn't want. Everything was too real-world. I wanted escapism. I don't mind darkness, but it was all too close to reality with terrorism, brutality, etc. It just kept pushing me away.

Any attempts at coming back now seem low as well, though I check things out in this forum. I'd be curious about a few books, but I'm a digital only buyer and their prices are out of whack for what you get. And I'm leery of any series because of the quick cancellations some get, etc. To someone like me, there's just too much uncertainty. There's always some, but Marvel just seems too unstable.

[carabas]

Four bucks for 22 pages on most of the books I was interested in, coupled with Marvel's unfortunate tendency to really overdo the whole event thing. When there's a 31-issue event with 4 spin-off mini series centered around DAREDEVIL you know greed has gotten way out of control.

Also the general asshattery of Marvel representatives whenver they make a public statement.

And now apparently the standard is 20 pages for $4, despite promising vehementmy not to do that.


Well, sigh, I stopped reading when Marvel became the world's leading comic books publisher.America's leading comics publisher... Globally they're kinda small potatoes.

[West]

Also the general asshattery of Marvel representatives whenver they make a public statement.


I laugh at how easy you are to offend, compared to most of the things I've heard online a real life, there words are nothing.

[Rasputin9977]

I laugh at how easy you are to offend, compared to most of the things I've heard online a real life, there words are nothing.

It's not that it's offensive but that it's unprofessional.

[Castel]

I dropped comics in the 90s because the 90s were a cesspool.

Something like that for me too.

Didn't completely dropped comics but geez...what a sad time.

Was pretty close to leave the boat more recently too thanks to all this OMD/BND/WTF foolishness.

[Chris Beveridge]

It's not that it's offensive but that it's unprofessional.

That's been a surprising thing for me in reading the Marvel forums. There's a few that I follow on Twitter that understand the social side (Agent M, Dreamyeyed) so they do help to balance things out and do what seems like a very good balance of personal and professional in order to create that "online bond" between customer and company. What you see in the forums sometimes really makes you blink though, but it's more dependent I think on the readers age and what they've experienced in "the real world". I can easily imagine myself at 15 loving everything certain Marvel folks post in the forums here, whereas the 40 year old me cringes to say the least.

[RDMacQ]

Lol, I like how people say they stopped reading Marvel comics, and then they know more about the current Marvel title story lines then those of us who are still reading them?

Bluff called. :wink:

Because it's not like people post online spoilers that give detailed synopsis for what went on in those titles, and the discussions often reveal many of the plot points of said issues?

[BrotherUnitNo_4]

When I was younger I used to read a lot of comics, but I never actually bought them due to how expensive they were where I lived when compared to the income I got from being a kid. So there was a long time where I didn't have access to comics due to not being able to afford them.

I think the first Marvel Comic I bought with my own cash was Dan Slott's She-Hulk #4 with Spider-man on the cover. I'm not a hardcore Marvel fan or hater. I just read what I like, take chances with creators I like and on interesting premises. I don't stick with every book eternally, as not every book is gold. I try not to rant to much about what I dislike, which is more dealing with their publishing and marketing strategies than the actual content between the pages.

This week, I bought zero DC books, one Image and four Marvel books. Venom let me down and I may drop it since Tom Fowler isn't coming back. Cloak and Dagger was upsetting because it set up some interesting story threads that may never be touched upon again in the future. Daredevil #5 was an improvement over #4, and it's still one of the best pure superhero books that Marvel or DC is publishing. Wolverine and the X-Men was a surprise though, and it was good enough to convince me that I should probably get a subscription so I don't have to worry about the $3.99 cover price going forward. It looks like it's definitely set to inject some new life into the franchise.

While I'm disappointed that some readers have left Marvel, there's still a lot of good stuff to be had. Marvel definitely needs to do something about that $3.99 pricing because it's making it harder for me to try new books. I took a gamble on WATXM because I heard a lot of good things about it and I was genuinely interested in the premise. That pricing is keeping me off of books like ASM, UXF and Captain America, though.

[BrotherUnitNo_4]

I dont need another of Marvel's cheerleaders to tell me its the same book. It's the same book but its going to come out in the dame month. Ridiculous gimmick so I'm dropping it.

You could just skip the .1 issues. The recap pages usually sum that kind of information up. If I'm dropping Venom it's more due to the change in art team.

[Greg Anderson]

The only Marvel books I currently actually read are Black Panther, X-Factor, and Daken. While I'm generally enjoying them, I'm not as excited for them as I used to be with Marvel. The last time I was really excited over a character/book was actually Dr. Voodoo and since killing him off, I lost a lot of interest. There's tons of great characters that are great but aren't get much focus and when there's some excitement over the lower tiers characters, they get canceled and cut off because they don't sell as much as the higher tier characters are are featured everywhere and are the main focus of events. Lower tier characters gets tie-ins but never play big parts in events to showcase them.

While Black Panther has a pretty solid team writing/drawing and I generally enjoy the stories, I'm still a bit off with the overall premise but whatever.

Even in general with Marvel books, I don't have that itch to rush to the comic shop anymore. I have a "eh, I'll get it when I get it" mentality now. I seem to be getting a bit excited over the new Wolverine and the X-Men book, we'll see how long that lasts.

[CyberHubbs]

Because it's not like people post online spoilers that give detailed synopsis for what went on in those titles, and the discussions often reveal many of the plot points of said issues?

I can see popping in every couple of months, or even years, to see what they've missed. But here they still are.

Anyway. I stopped in the early 2000s, but am now picking up more than usual. I can see why people buy fewer, though. Especially when you're in your thirties and forties. Unless you have a lot of disposable income, bills usually come first.

[carabas]

I laugh at how easy you are to offend, compared to most of the things I've heard online a real life, there words are nothing.I don't buy books by those people from "online a real life" either. And who said I was offended?

[DaronK]

I stopped reading Marvel a few years ago when I fell behind on everything. I was working on my Grad degree and working full time and just didn't have time to read anything that wasn't school related. I was, however, still buying everything in hopes of being able to catch up a bit later.

Once I did find some time to start reading again, I found that the titles I was really missing weren't the Marvel books, so those continued to sit and wait to be read. Then when the $3.99 prices started hitting most of the titles, I just couldn't justify spending all that money for books I obviously didn't have enough interest to read.

Now that I am caught up and buying more titles than ever, I still can't bring myself to spend $3.99 on a 20 or even a 22 page comic, but I have been getting all the Ultimate trades for like $5 on Amazon and have been enjoying them more than I thought I would.

[jsf]

I stopped reading them when it became clear that there was some price gouging going on.

They can do it -- it's a free market economy -- but I'm not buying it.

[blopblopblop]

Two words: Avengers Disassembled

Everyone acted out of character, it showed no respect for what had come before, the dialogue was annoying and pseudo-hip, the plot was non-existent and characters with long history were literally ripped apart and used as cannon fodder.

All so a superstar write could take the lazy, oh-so-'90s route of writing the Spider-Man/Wolverine Adventure Team and calling it the Avengers.

Add on top of this insult the character assassinations of Tony and Reed in Civil War and the Illuminati nonsense (the name still makes me cringe - why not just call it the Freemasons or the Stonecutters?), and the MU became a bleak, depressing place that I barely recognize anymore.

and $3.99 an issue doesn't really make me want to give them another chance anytime soon.

[Xiroteus]

I had to stop most comics for time, mostly because of the cost and even today I am just not comfortable spending $3.99 on one comic unless it is amazing. Almost twenty dollars for four comics is pushing the limits past where I am comfortable.

[Beadle]

I stopped almost two years ago, having been buying since '86. I would still be buying now if I wasn't permanently broke.

I have no idea how much money I invested into Marvel during that time period, but I was buying every single 616 title, plus a number of others. It's probably somewhere around the £50K mark (so...what? $80K?) or maybe more. Gets scary when you look at it like that. With that money I would now be in a much better place financially, although I'd have had a lot less happy times.

[hotrodimus]

Fans who quit comics no doubt read this board if only to keep up with artist/writer changes, spoilers and issue summaries.



hehehe this is exactly what im these days... as to the question, i think no doubt some have seen my main reason for quitting marvel... Brian Michael Bendis.
Hard to believe though because early last decade, he's one of the reasons i got Back to marvel thanks to his Ultimate Spider-man series. ive seen his eventual rise to majority creative control in most comics now and honestly it sucks. i find it unbearable already. i just got really tired of it during secret invasion. its just not worth the effort to follow religiously marvel these days.

[MegaGearX]

Event fatigue and nothing going on with my favorite heroes is why I'm mostly done with Marvel.

X-Factor and X-Force are keepers though.

[Goggindowner]

For me, it really boiled down to two things.

The first big thing was money. When things get tight financially, you have to be very frugal about your entertainment budget, if there even is one. I still had some extra cash floating around, and for a while some of that was going to comics. Then the other shoe dropped.

The other shoe: my enjoyment of the books had completely bottomed out. This happened probably six months after Morrison left New X-Men. Marvel had been going through something of a new Renaissance in the early 2000s, and there was so much quality I couldn't get it all. Then things just.....fell off. The books seemed to just go stale all at once.

Once these two conditions were met, it was a simple choice to stop reading. Thus, from 2004 until earlier this year, I have not read really any comics. I have started dabbling again, and there are some really great titles out there from both the big two and beyond. But if the quality starts to fall off again I won't hesitate to drop anything again.

[Goggindowner]

I had to stop most comics for time, mostly because of the cost and even today I am just not comfortable spending $3.99 on one comic unless it is amazing. Almost twenty dollars for four comics is pushing the limits past where I am comfortable.

This is a huge issue, and one that I also find myself in. I've said it before on these boards, but for a book that costs $3.99, good just isn't good enough. If it isn't amazing, and I am not THOROUGHLY enjoying it in just about every aspect, then it simply isn't worth $3.99 to me.

[Castel]

The financial aspect, a big issue for a lot of people, is why i mostly switched to trades.

[edhopper]

Definitely the obsession with big events. I can't read any series without it eventually getting caught up in yet another meaningless, overblown event that "changes everything".
A good example was Thor and Captain America both very good self contained series until it was decided that they needed to fit into whatever Bendis wanted to do with the Marvel Universe.
So i now read about 3 or 4 Marvel books. And i drop them whenever a big event taked over. Secret Avengers is a recent example,

And I am a FORMER Marvel Zombie.

[Malevolent1]

A combination of factors. One being cost. I have less money to spend on luxuries like comics, so I'm buying a lot less. The other being a lack of interest in a lot of the products being put out by Marvel. There seems to be a glut of comics and no real focus for the direction of the company, especially since they seem to just follow the same patterns and- after a while- the "magic" wears off and it just becomes very tiring.

This also ^^^^

It just seems that Marvel's attitude toward their readers is, "Well, piss on continuity. This is the rehashed crap I feel like peddling, so enjoy". I've said it numerous times before, many of the characters that are popular were "designed" a certain way. Also, many of those same characters were created with "suspension of disbelief" having been included in each character's inception. So, whether or not an editor wants to push continuity and the "old way" of doing things, really doesn't matter if the company is interested in conveying what made the characters popular in the first place. I'm one of the old timers that read Marvel in the 70s and I know what the old "Marvel magic" is all about. And what current Marvel is churning out, aint it. If Marvel doesn't want to end up like DC, relaunching their entire line to try and "reach a broader" audience, they need to return to the roots of what Marvel so cutting edge years ago. Sorry, that's just how it is.

Stan Lee = suspension of disbelief
Joe Quesada = "it's comics...anything goes!"
Axel Alonzo = ???

I hear more and more editors and prominent writers alike from Marvel making comments like what Quesada had to say above. But here's the thing they seem to not be grasping: people can turn to a plethora of mediums for entertainment. Comics is one of those mediums. DC had a certain philosophy when churning out comic books, which I'm sure revolved around their "holy trinity" of characters, Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman. Marvel's was characters with "feet of clay" that the average reader could relate to and character injected with a degree of suspension of disbelief. Fast forward 4 or so decades to a bunch of yahoos who want to re-write the formula because, what? they don't personally care about comics? It's like playing a board game and in the middle, someone says, "Okay, rule change. This is how we're doing now". Well, some decide that's fine. Others were attracted to the original game (and the original set of rules) for a reason. So it seems obvious, that some readers are going to be turned off by people at Marvel who show no regard for "how the game was originally played". And if they think this newer generation doesn't care or is otherwise unfamiliar with "what Stan Lee" did, they are so wrong. Older readers, familiar with continuity, educate younger ones on various boards, such as this one, as to how the characters were originally 'painted'. So, even newer ones to the medium of comics can make some of the finer distinctions associated with the original "classic" characters.

Whether Marvel is simply to arrogant to have any respect for what was orignally done with the characters or they just don't care is immaterial if they want the medium of comics to flourish.

Then again, maybe they don't care because Marvel Studios is flourishing.

:wink:

'Nuff said!!

[Alan Smithee]

It depends on what you like. If you only care about reading your favorite character even if the entire issue is just he / she eating a sandwich and taking a dump then I guess your stuck. If you care about reading well told and interesting stories, regardless of main character, that leave you wanting to read more then you can find plenty of good books in both companies (and bad ones too in both). I want good stories that interest me and when I can buy four DC books for the price of three Marvel books its utterly crazy not to try DC. I bought about half the DC #1's and of those I bought there were some clunkers, a lot of good to average ones, and a few amazing ones. What really surprised me most was that three of the most amazing ones were books I nearly didn't buy (and wouldn't have at Marvel costs since I'd have bought fewer books). If DC was $3.99 I would never have discovered the sheer greatness of Animal Man, I Vampire, and Batwoman. And if DC was $3.99 I'd be more upset having wasted money on books like Justice League International and Red Lanterns. I'm sure that if money was not a consideration I could find three books from Marvel that awe me as much as the three DC ones I mention but money is an issue so I'm gonna go with being able to get more bang out of my buck every time when there is equal quality to be found at the lower price.

At one point I bought JLA, Wonder Woman, Supergirl, Jonah Hex in addition to a couple of Dynamite titles and the usual load of Marvel books. When Marvel kind of crashed for me, I cut loose on everything. You and SilverZeal are starting to sell me on DC's latest reboot. Though I might be too far gone for that.:eek:

[RDMacQ]

This also ^^^^

It just seems that Marvel's attitude toward their readers is, "Well, piss on continuity. This is the rehashed crap I feel like peddling, so enjoy". I've said it numerous times before, many of the characters that are popular were "designed" a certain way. Also, many of those same characters were created with "suspension of disbelief" having been included in each character's inception. So, whether or not an editor wants to push continuity and the "old way" of doing things, really doesn't matter if the company is interested in conveying what made the characters popular in the first place. I'm one of the old timers that read Marvel in the 70s and I know what the old "Marvel magic" is all about. And what current Marvel is churning out, aint it. If Marvel doesn't want to end up like DC, relaunching their entire line to try and "reach a broader" audience, they need to return to the roots of what Marvel so cutting edge years ago. Sorry, that's just how it is.

Stan Lee = suspension of disbelief
Joe Quesada = "it's comics...anything goes!"
Axel Alonzo = ???

I hear more and more editors and prominent writers alike from Marvel making comments like what Quesada had to say above. But here's the thing they seem to not be grasping: people can turn to a plethora of mediums for entertainment. Comics is one of those mediums. DC had a certain philosophy when churning out comic books, which I'm sure revolved around their "holy trinity" of characters, Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman. Marvel's was characters with "feet of clay" that the average reader could relate to and character injected with a degree of suspension of disbelief. Fast forward 4 or so decades to a bunch of yahoos who want to re-write the formula because, what? they don't personally care about comics? It's like playing a board game and in the middle, someone says, "Okay, rule change. This is how we're doing now". Well, some decide that's fine. Others were attracted to the original game (and the original set of rules) for a reason. So it seems obvious, that some readers are going to be turned off by people at Marvel who show no regard for "how the game was originally played". And if they think this newer generation doesn't care or is otherwise unfamiliar with "what Stan Lee" did, they are so wrong. Older readers, familiar with continuity, educate younger ones on various boards, such as this one, as to how the characters were originally 'painted'. So, even newer ones to the medium of comics can make some of the finer distinctions associated with the original "classic" characters.

Whether Marvel is simply to arrogant to have any respect for what was orignally done with the characters or they just don't care is immaterial if they want the medium of comics to flourish.

Then again, maybe they don't care because Marvel Studios is flourishing.

:wink:

'Nuff said!!

I don't think it comes from a lack of respect for continuity. What I've found I have a problem with is when there is more of a focus on promoting a philosophy rather than actual entertainment. That they'll be OK with a bad story, because it makes things more convenient or "comfortable" for the creators (so they say) more than the immediate entertainment of the fans. Given that I'm buying comics FOR my immediate entertainment and not for the benefit of people in the future, I don't see why I should put up with a bad story or a stupid development because someone in 10 years might come on board.

In addition, I'm not a fan of how the creators respond to the fans inquiries or concerns. It's unnecessarily confrontational, and it just doesn't look good when later on the creators end up doing exactly what the fans asked for or mentioned they have a problem with. An example would be the whole thing with Alpha Flight. For years, folks at Marvel made fun of the fact that Alpha Flight was dead and challenged fans when they asked for their resurrection as to why they would want them back and what made them important other than just being a Canadian superteam. And what do they end up doing? They end up resurrecting Alpha Flight. And then they seem to expect this same group of people that they mocked and made fun of to just flock back. It's overall just a bad way to handle things. I think there is far too much taking the audience for granted, and just expecting them to be there no matter what.

[Stantheman23]

Brian Michael Bendis.

It amazes me just how horrible of a writer he is. All of his books are filled with the same "witty" dialogue that's from a rejected Quentin Taratino script. His books always focused on loser pet characters that even good writers would (and have) struggled to make interesting like Power Man and the Sentry. His books have absolutely nothing to them. I never take anything away from his stories. He's the only writer I know that can make a comic book event completely irredeemable (well him and Millar). Hell even Ultimatum has some value to it just because I laughed at how absurd it was.

Marvel blew during House of M and Avengers Disassembled but the end of decent storytelling ended when Civil War came out. The idea of a superhero war is interesting but it was poorly executed.

Although not everyone in the superhero community gets along they are actually a community. They all support each other during bleak times, cry at each others funerals and fight the good fight. The idea that they all get into a war because they argue about the Government's role in their lives is dumb.

[Goggindowner]

I don't think it comes from a lack of respect for continuity. What I've found I have a problem with is when there is more of a focus on promoting a philosophy rather than actual entertainment. That they'll be OK with a bad story, because it makes things more convenient or "comfortable" for the creators (so they say) more than the immediate entertainment of the fans. Given that I'm buying comics FOR my immediate entertainment and not for the benefit of people in the future, I don't see why I should put up with a bad story or a stupid development because someone in 10 years might come on board.

In addition, I'm not a fan of how the creators respond to the fans inquiries or concerns. It's unnecessarily confrontational, and it just doesn't look good when later on the creators end up doing exactly what the fans asked for or mentioned they have a problem with. An example would be the whole thing with Alpha Flight. For years, folks at Marvel made fun of the fact that Alpha Flight was dead and challenged fans when they asked for their resurrection as to why they would want them back and what made them important other than just being a Canadian superteam. And what do they end up doing? They end up resurrecting Alpha Flight. And then they seem to expect this same group of people that they mocked and made fun of to just flock back. It's overall just a bad way to handle things. I think there is far too much taking the audience for granted, and just expecting them to be there no matter what.

Unfortunately, there is a lot of perspective truth in what you posted here. Marvel seems to not be at all concerned with fan retention. In fact, not only do they appear to mock fans in solicits, interviews, and panels, but sometimes it seems like they are even trolling us with story content. At first I thought this couldn't be real, but considering the trolling Marvel has been doing to Jean Grey fans in the last few years, I have become a believer.

[RDMacQ]

Unfortunately, there is a lot of perspective truth in what you posted here. Marvel seems to not be at all concerned with fan retention. In fact, not only do they appear to mock fans in solicits, interviews, and panels, but sometimes it seems like they are even trolling us with story content. At first I thought this couldn't be real, but considering the trolling Marvel has been doing to Jean Grey fans in the last few years, I have become a believer.

I think it's hard to shift tactics after doing something for a good long while.

A few years ago, this sort of more... aggressive... attitude regarding fan complaints and reactions was kind of refreshing. It was a livelier way to interact with the fans, to engage them on another level. And for a while it was fun, because it was kind of done in a playful way. It was more gentle teasing, reacting to the more extreme examples.

Unfortunately, this sort of thing has kind of become a little tiring. The gentle teasing has moved to outright mockery, and that's no longer fun. Especially when more people have started moving and posting online, and it's no longer the "basement dweller" that these sort of statements seem to react to, but a wide variety of people. What's worse is that these statements seem more and more to simply gloss over or rationalize any negative reactions people have, treating any criticism as if it's just the same group of "wackos" who will never be satisfied. This sort of thing doesn't make the comics any better. Attacking the critic doesn't make a story suck less, or make a decision any more popular. All it does is really increase the divide.

[Malevolent1]

I don't think it comes from a lack of respect for continuity. What I've found I have a problem with is when there is more of a focus on promoting a philosophy rather than actual entertainment. That they'll be OK with a bad story, because it makes things more convenient or "comfortable" for the creators (so they say) more than the immediate entertainment of the fans. Given that I'm buying comics FOR my immediate entertainment and not for the benefit of people in the future, I don't see why I should put up with a bad story or a stupid development because someone in 10 years might come on board.

In addition, I'm not a fan of how the creators respond to the fans inquiries or concerns. It's unnecessarily confrontational, and it just doesn't look good when later on the creators end up doing exactly what the fans asked for or mentioned they have a problem with. An example would be the whole thing with Alpha Flight. For years, folks at Marvel made fun of the fact that Alpha Flight was dead and challenged fans when they asked for their resurrection as to why they would want them back and what made them important other than just being a Canadian superteam. And what do they end up doing? They end up resurrecting Alpha Flight. And then they seem to expect this same group of people that they mocked and made fun of to just flock back. It's overall just a bad way to handle things. I think there is far too much taking the audience for granted, and just expecting them to be there no matter what.

Agreed completely. The reality is that Marvel Comics like many businesses are only in business because what they do makes them money. It may not be now, but the day may come when they might've wished they had listened to what the fans said. They are very disdainful/dismissive of fans criticisms these days, as you mentioned. When I lived in Oklahoma, briefly as a kid, I wrote in to "Mail-nir!", the section at the end of Thor comics where Marvel published selected fan mail. I said something about seeing a brawl between the Hulk and Thor. To my dismay, I had received notification from Marvel comics that my letter would be published in an upcoming issue of Thor...and we were just getting ready to move to an island on the Aleutian (my dad worked on the "slope", when drilling was really big in Alaska) chain of Alaska (Adak, old Naval station, now shut down) where the selection of comics was next to nothing. By the time I got a subscription, the issue had come and gone. But the point is, they were kind enough to respond back (thereby showing a measure of concern for a fans view). You think these guys would do that today? Heh. And yes, they look really stupid when they heckle fans for their criticisms, then turn around and do what the fans asked.

Great comments. Completely agree.

[RDMacQ]

Agreed completely. The reality is that Marvel Comics like many businesses are only in business because what they do makes them money. It may not be now, but the day may come when they might've wished they had listened to what the fans said. They are very disdainful/dismissive of fans criticisms these days, as you mentioned. When I lived in Oklahoma, briefly as a kid, I wrote in to "Mail-nir!", the section at the end of Thor comics where Marvel published selected fan mail. I said something about seeing a brawl between the Hulk and Thor. To my dismay, I had received notification from Marvel comics that my letter would be published in an upcoming issue of Thor...and we were just getting ready to move to an island on the Aleutian (my dad worked on the "slope", when drilling was really big in Alaska) chain of Alaska (Adak, old Naval station, now shut down) where the selection of comics was next to nothing. By the time I got a subscription, the issue had come and gone. But the point is, they were kind enough to respond back (thereby showing a measure of concern for a fans view). You think these guys would do that today? Heh. And yes, they look really stupid when they heckle fans for their criticisms, then turn around and do what the fans asked.

Great comments. Completely agree.

Well, thing of it is, the creators are responding more with fans today, in a way they never could before. Thanks to internet forums, creators can interact with fans almost immediately. Before, you would have to wait months before you even got the chance to see if your letter would even be published. Now you can go online the day you read the comic, and possibly interact with the creator then and there.

But, yeah, some of those responses have been unnecessarily aggressive. And this is especially frustrating when a fan mentions that they dislike part of the story that has come about, like say, complaining about the character of Jackpot and bringing up the issues they had with her, only to be met with derision by one of the editors. Only to have the editor a while later to come out and admit that, yes, they "dropped the ball" with that character and that it didn't work out the way they wanted. Which basically just reinforces what people were saying about the character in the first place. Criticizing the fans for disliking Jackpot doesn't make the character any better or the story more enjoyable, and you're not exactly saving face when you admit later on that the fans had a point in the first place.

But there are bigger issues going on with Marvel than just how the creative directors interact with the fans. At some point, people have to realize that it's not the fans fault if books keep getting cancelled by the fifth issue or that series are pulled or their lengths changed back and forth, around the same time that the company has made several layoffs. Other companies can manage to have books that last longer than five issues. Other companies can stay consistent about what's a mini-series, and what's an ongoing. This seems to be a problem really unique to Marvel, and it's something that has to be dealt with internally.

[ZombieApocalypse]

3.99 price tags. Marvel acting like the sandbox bully. Asking comic shop owners to destroy literature. Assasinating Cap. And it just seems it's depressing to read a Marvel Book now. Just a few things.

[Panic]

I started reading comics as a kid in the 1970's. Huge Marvel fan, I looked upon D.C. Comics largely with contempt. If you had asked then what made D.C. so inferior, I would have listed many practices which, sadly, Marvel has taken up since the 90's. Basically Marvel has become what I hated as a kid.

They still produce some decent comics, but the M.U. in general doesn't really work for me anymore.

[Pinhead_Wasp]

90's dreck drove me away the first time. I came back about 3 years ago because all the superhero movies got me nostalgic, but I'm being driven out again by $3.99 for 20 pages. $2.99 Marvel I'm OK with (Avengers Academy, Thunderbolts). $2.99 DC I'm even more OK with.

[Lord S]

Why did I stop reading Marvel? Well I first quit back in 2000 right after the atrocious Apocalypse: The Twelve saga. I found the writing so bad it was insulting.

Restarted in 2004, and have now quit again. Well not really quit - the word quit has a finality to it...I'm just taking a break. Stopped halfway through Fear Itself, and haven't been to the comic store since August.

Reasons? No time to read comics at the moment...and not really interested in anything Marvel is presently putting out. Maybe I'm burned out or whatever, but the magic is gone and I just don't have the time or energy to devote to Marvel right now. It doesn't help that the cosmic scene has been wiped out, (yes I know about Annihilators: Earthfall, and it does little to pique my interest), plus I've been generally displeased for years with the decompressed writing style prevalent in today's comics. Another reason is I'm trying to focus my attention on reading more important books - I have a library of motivational and business related books that have been ignored for the longest time.

That's not to say I won't restart comics again...I probably will in 2012, (no doubt the Avengers movie will have a hand in that). Most likely I'll pick up where I left off...finishing Fear Itself, and a couple of other titles I dumped. I'm just hoping there will be something new and exciting to sustain my interest, otherwise my next 'break' from this hobby will be permanent.

[Xiroteus]

This is a huge issue, and one that I also find myself in. I've said it before on these boards, but for a book that costs $3.99, good just isn't good enough. If it isn't amazing, and I am not THOROUGHLY enjoying it in just about every aspect, then it simply isn't worth $3.99 to me.

I also find it easier to pay 3.99 when I know the series stands on its own for the most part. It would still be limited, I could do mail order however I cannot really commit to that many books each month even if the savings is good.

[Chiasm]

At one point I bought JLA, Wonder Woman, Supergirl, Jonah Hex in addition to a couple of Dynamite titles and the usual load of Marvel books. When Marvel kind of crashed for me, I cut loose on everything. You and SilverZeal are starting to sell me on DC's latest reboot. Though I might be too far gone for that.:eek:

You should try some. There truly are some amazing books there. There are also a lot of average ones and some bad ones (which is how it is with every company).

I tried about half the relaunch and quit about six of those after one book. There is another 5-6 that I'm dumping after the 2nd book. But at the same time there are four books (Animal Man, I Vampire, Aquaman, and Batwoman) that actually make me excited to go to the comic shop and pick up (something I hadn't felt for a long time). I think once the dust settles I'll probably have about 10-15 DC books on my pull list (up from 3 pre re-launch) and no Marvel books on my list. I'm dumping X-men Legacy next issue after Mike Carey leaves and thats the last remaining monthly. I might still pick up some cosmic Marvel stuff when it starts up again but I really don't forsee going back to Marvel any time soon unless pricing between the various companies evens out. As I've said before, there are great quality books to be had for $2.99 out there from several companies so why in the world would I ever pay $3.99 and end up with fewer books.

[AXL]

You should try some. There truly are some amazing books there. There are also a lot of average ones and some bad ones (which is how it is with every company).

I tried about half the relaunch and quit about six of those after one book. There is another 5-6 that I'm dumping after the 2nd book. But at the same time there are four books (Animal Man, I Vampire, Aquaman, and Batwoman) that actually make me excited to go to the comic shop and pick up (something I hadn't felt for a long time). I think once the dust settles I'll probably have about 10-15 DC books on my pull list (up from 3 pre re-launch) and no Marvel books on my list. I'm dumping X-men Legacy next issue after Mike Carey leaves and thats the last remaining monthly. I might still pick up some cosmic Marvel stuff when it starts up again but I really don't forsee going back to Marvel any time soon unless pricing between the various companies evens out. As I've said before, there are great quality books to be had for $2.99 out there from several companies so why in the world would I ever pay $3.99 and end up with fewer books.

Because you'll like them more? :wink:
This is my biggest issue on these forums, though. WHY? DO? PEOPLE? HATE? MARVEL?

[carabas]

Because you'll like them more? :wink:Why? The extra buck does not make them any better or worse.


This is my biggest issue on these forums, though. WHY? DO? PEOPLE? HATE? MARVEL?Seems to me like a lot of people like, quality being exual, 4 books instaed of 3 for their 12 bucks.

[RDMacQ]

Because you'll like them more? :wink:
This is my biggest issue on these forums, though. WHY? DO? PEOPLE? HATE? MARVEL?

Price is not equitable of quality. Just because something costs more does not mean you will get a greater value out of it.

[Goggindowner]

I'm going to repost this here, since we got locked out of the previous discussion for whatever reason.

Here's the thing, and this ties directly into how this "off-topic" conversation is actually quite on topic, IMO.

Independent titles are less expensive, and for certain types of readers, offer a higher level of satisfaction. That is why price is an issue.

These same types of readers (which include myself and others in this thread) also could give a crap less how long a story or title goes on. Different strokes for different folks. This disconnect is a large reason why readers like us are falling out of love with Marvel. Why, you ask?

There was a time when Marvel published stories that worked in runs. Grant Morrison's New X-Men, Allred and Milligan's X-Statix, Ennis' Punisher, Bendis' run on Daredevil, JMS on Amazing Spider-Man. All these books, while part of a larger, on going story, had clear, independent directions, and each had an ending. A place for the next team to take over.

Now, Marvel comics all feel like the on going aspect of the books is getting in the way of allowing the creators and editors to just tell a story. Even if the stories are good or great, there is that lingering since that it is all hinging on the next event or editorial mandate.

So there is already that disconnect from certain readers, and then you add the $3.99 price tag on top of that, and it doesn't take much for us to just drop the book and move on.

So it isn't a matter of "hating" Marvel. It is a matter of being disappointed in the company's offerings, and finding our entertainment elsewhere. That's it. Right now, DC's Dark and Edge line of books are offering these same types of stories, where you aren't caught up in the status quo of the DCU, you just get enjoy a comic that does it's own thing in a larger universe. Then there are books like Walking Dead, Fear Agent, Hellboy, BPRD, and many others that exist all on their own, and the creators get to do what they want without worrying about an over inflated shared universe. This is also why I am enjoying Ultimate Marvel so much right now. It is small enough that being so heavily linked isn't off putting.

[Chiasm]

Because you'll like them more? :wink:
This is my biggest issue on these forums, though. WHY? DO? PEOPLE? HATE? MARVEL?

As I keep saying, I'm not married to a particular character or book anymore. Uncanny X-men is why I became a comic book fan. It long ago ceased being the reason I was a comic book fan as I've found books from all across the board that I like.

I hate Marvel because of their pricing and flooding which is destroying the market and hastening the demise of the industry. And because of the utterly callous disregard many Marvel employees treat the fans with.

This article put right here on CBR written by a comic book sales expert (an actual long time shop owner) explains in great detail how Marvel is killing the industry.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=32417

[Ray B.]

As I keep saying, I'm not married to a particular character or book anymore. Uncanny X-men is why I became a comic book fan. It long ago ceased being the reason I was a comic book fan as I've found books from all across the board that I like.

I hate Marvel because of their pricing and flooding which is destroying the market and hastening the demise of the industry. And because of the utterly callous disregard many Marvel employees treat the fans with.

This article put right here on CBR written by a comic book sales expert (an actual long time shop owner) explains in great detail how Marvel is killing the industry.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=32417As much as I hate seeing Spiderman and Wolerine on two Avengers books I have to call bs on that Marvel puts out what it can sell so it can stay in buisness people are appareantly willing to buy 3 or 4 Spidey books.

[Chiasm]

As much as I hate seeing Spiderman and Wolerine on two Avengers books I have to call bs on that Marvel puts out what it can sell so it can stay in buisness people are appareantly willing to buy 3 or 4 Spidey books.

Did you actually read the article? I gather not given your comment.

What flooding has done is drag the top of the market down and replaced the majority of lost sales at the top with sales of books that rank in the middle of the charts. Comic book shops have a lot of trouble making a profit when there are so few books out there that can be banked on to sell well. Its become a high risk little reward game out there for them and Marvel's flooding, bi-shipping, and pricing just make it worse.

[Rasputin9977]

I guess Marvel didn't learn their lesson when they flooded the market and over exposed their top characters in the '90s. Or maybe they just care about the short term sales vs the long term sales.

[Jim Thompson]

Fans who quit comics no doubt read this board if only to keep up with artist/writer changes, spoilers and issue summaries.

I quit reading comics with the penultimate issue of Siege. There were still a couple books I was interested in, but it seemed like a bother to go buy the TPB.

I think it was Hylerstyle who had as his sig his pull list. Each really excellent book followed with the word "canceled." I know there are people on these boards who quit buying comic books because a) they were upset with a dollar price increase in a time of economic doldrums or b) they got sick of the hype about events or c) they woke up and realized they were 34 or d) Bendis sux.

This is not a poll, but a forum for other Marvel Zombies who relatively recently quit reading comcs.Well, I didn't quit reading comics, but I am down to three Marvel titles after having them be the bulk of my pull list and collecting habits for decades. Here's what led me to the change:


Increasingly, I just wasn't enjoying the stories as much as I had. I thought they were becoming stale, and it has been a long time since I thought anything coming out of Marvel was supportive of a company that calls itself "The House of Ideas".
Stories like Civil War and One More Day really played too fast and loose with some long-standing characterizations of Marvel characters I enjoyed reading about. I get that a lot of people are enjoying the books right now, but I didn't enjoy what was done to and with a lot of Marvel characters.
Also, simply didn't feel like supporting the Marvel staff anymore.

[Wolf_Leader]

I tried to quit Marvel. I had dropped everything except for Daredevil a few weeks ago. The problem is they own the X-Men franchise and even though I barely recognize it, those were the books that first brought me into the comic shops and there is a certain sense of comfort in picking them up that I can't completely drop them.

Everything else got dropped due to price and taking 6 issues to give 3 issues worth of story. These are just too much to accept considering a small number of characters being used in way too many main titles and Marvel is moving more towards a style of story telling (or marketing) in which mega crossover events are spreading stories over multiple titles that I would rather stand on their own.

[RDMacQ]

Did you actually read the article? I gather not given your comment.

What flooding has done is drag the top of the market down and replaced the majority of lost sales at the top with sales of books that rank in the middle of the charts. Comic book shops have a lot of trouble making a profit when there are so few books out there that can be banked on to sell well. Its become a high risk little reward game out there for them and Marvel's flooding, bi-shipping, and pricing just make it worse.

Excellent points. This seems to be less about "meeting market demand" since it's mostly about just selling stuff to the retailers. Moving 200,000 copies of comcis to retailers does not mean that 200,000 people are reading the books.

The comic stores that I know of in my home town don't just sell comics anymore. They also deal in used books, anime, manga, action figures, figurines, T-Shirts, and a whole lot of other merchandise.


As much as I hate seeing Spiderman and Wolerine on two Avengers books I have to call bs on that Marvel puts out what it can sell so it can stay in buisness people are appareantly willing to buy 3 or 4 Spidey books.

Yes. But with the new publishing schedule, a comic fan has or had to pick up ASM multiple times a month in order to keep up with the narrative. In the past, fans had a choice as to whether or not they wanted to pick up multiple titles. Now they have to pick up more than one issue a month if they want to follow along.

[Comet Man]

I came back to Marvel after about a ten year absence when I saw they were bringing back Captain Marvel.

I almost quit again when I saw it was a big lie.

The only thing that kept me in was Nova, and Guardians of the Galaxy.

I almost quit again after those books were cancelled.

I only stayed because of Thanos Imperative, and the hope that Mar-Vell was coming back.

I quit for good when I read in an interview with Brevoort, where Brevoort said that Mar-Vell will never be brought back, and both Nova and Starlord were killed. Plus, I was just bored with multiple Avengers teams with the same characters, and seeing event after event with the same characters, and the seemingly intense focus on street level books. To me, Marvel just became so boring, and too realistic, with no imagination, or diversity in genres.

So DC's new 52 came along, and I jumped on. I'm getting 26 books a month from them, and I'm loving the imagination of the creators displayed in the stories, and all the different characters. I've discovered the fun in comic books again, and I doubt I'll ever come back to Marvel.

Unless of course, I see the return of my favorite character of all time - Captain Mar-Vell. But even then, it may be too late for me.

[Jim Thompson]

I came back to Marvel after about a ten year absence when I saw they were bringing back Captain Marvel.

I almost quit again when I saw it was a big lie.

The only thing that kept me in was Nova, and Guardians of the Galaxy.

I almost quit again after those books were cancelled.

I only stayed because of Thanos Imperative, and the hope that Mar-Vell was coming back.

I quit for good when I read in an interview with Brevoort, where Brevoort said that Mar-Vell will never be brought back, and both Nova and Starlord were killed. Plus, I was just bored with multiple Avengers teams with the same characters, and seeing event after event with the same characters, and the seemingly intense focus on street level books. To me, Marvel just became so boring, and too realistic, with no imagination, or diversity in genres.

So DC's new 52 came along, and I jumped on. I'm getting 26 books a month from them, and I'm loving the imagination of the creators displayed in the stories, and all the different characters. I've discovered the fun in comic books again, and I doubt I'll ever come back to Marvel.

Unless of course, I see the return of my favorite character of all time - Captain Mar-Vell. But even then, it may be too late for me.I do agree with you that the Marvel line doesn't seem as diverse and broad as the DC line is right now -- which is pretty weird, since Marvel is putting out a lot more titles than DC is at the moment.

[Comet Man]

I do agree with you that the Marvel line doesn't seem as diverse and broad as the DC line is right now -- which is pretty weird, since Marvel is putting out a lot more titles than DC is at the moment.

Yeah, but that's because it's all X-Men, Avengers, Spiderman, and Deadpool books. LOL!

[RDMacQ]

Yeah, but that's because it's all X-Men, Avengers, Spiderman, and Deadpool books. LOL!

Well, you joke, but that's not far off from the truth. It's really not surprising that the books that have the best chance of lasting beyond 5 issues are the ones with Avengers, X, Spider or Deadpool attached to them in some way.

Which might show just why Marvel is a little messed up right now- they seem far too retailer focused and not so much reader focused. That is to say that they seem more interested in moving product, than actually putting out material that the actual audience seems interested in or actually diversifying the brand to give the readers some more choices of what they are producing. Marvel seems more like "As long as people are BUYING," whereas DC seems more like "As long as people are READING." That there is a big difference.

[Ramage]

Well...it has to end sometime.

Why would you expect to be reading the same comic aimed at twelve years when you are well past the age of twelve?

You have an era...a time in your life...then that time is over.

I don't listen to contemporary rock any longer either.

[Xiroteus]

Well...it has to end sometime.

Why would you expect to be reading the same comic aimed at twelve years when you are well past the age of twelve?

You have an era...a time in your life...then that time is over.

I don't listen to contemporary rock any longer either.

That applies to a few things, like shows, comics, books aimed at children, most music is open to any age as well as most Marvel and DC comics. The regular Marvel and DC comics are not even closely written for children.

[Alan Smithee]

You should try some. There truly are some amazing books there. There are also a lot of average ones and some bad ones (which is how it is with every company).

I tried about half the relaunch and quit about six of those after one book. There is another 5-6 that I'm dumping after the 2nd book. But at the same time there are four books (Animal Man, I Vampire, Aquaman, and Batwoman) that actually make me excited to go to the comic shop and pick up (something I hadn't felt for a long time). I think once the dust settles I'll probably have about 10-15 DC books on my pull list (up from 3 pre re-launch) and no Marvel books on my list. I'm dumping X-men Legacy next issue after Mike Carey leaves and thats the last remaining monthly. I might still pick up some cosmic Marvel stuff when it starts up again but I really don't forsee going back to Marvel any time soon unless pricing between the various companies evens out. As I've said before, there are great quality books to be had for $2.99 out there from several companies so why in the world would I ever pay $3.99 and end up with fewer books.

Sadly, the money I once spent on comix now goes to porn. :wink:

[Chiasm]

Sadly, the money I once spent on comix now goes to porn. :wink:

LOL

I often wonder why in this day and age anyone would ever pay for porn given how much there if readily available for free on the internet. Not that I would know anything about that. :wink:

[tkitna]

They got rid of the Sentry. I wont be back until he comes back.

[tkitna]

I often wonder why in this day and age anyone would ever pay for porn given how much there if readily available for free on the internet.

The same can be said for comic books too.

[Chiasm]

The same can be said for comic books too.

Yeah but its illegal to pirate comic books. Porn on the other hand is widely available on many many many sites for free streaming. Not that I would know anything about that of course.

[paulski]

LOL

I often wonder why in this day and age anyone would ever pay for porn given how much there if readily available for free on the internet. Not that I would know anything about that. :wink:

Neither would I.












But if I did, I'd say that some of us prefer to get their dirty movies on DVDs that they can watch in the comfort of their homes. :wink:

[Black Manta]

Dissembled.

The Avengers was my flagship Marvel book. Everything I read stemmed from the Avengers in one way or another. The only reason I started buying X-Men, for example, was that Tigra guess starred in X-Men.

When they desided to turn the Avengers into a francise they lost much of what made the Avengers cool for me. I still bought the odd stroy here and there but not like I used to. Now I don't see the difference between being an Avengers versus being a super hero in the MU.

But what is nice is that the real Avengers have a great cartoon out now and of course the movie, so I guess it's a trade-off.