View Full Version : Books you thought you would never not buy but didn't/don't due to creative teams.
Sabrewulf
10-23-2011, 12:19 PM
Ms Marvel
Spider Woman
Defenders
Thunderbolts (Sorry, yeah it just isnt doing it for me)
Uncanny X-men
Avengers
New Mutants
Deadpool
Runnaways
Huthaifa
10-23-2011, 02:07 PM
Ultimate Spidey because I wasnt feeling LaFuente or the 3.99, but I am back onboard with Sara.
Defenders. Honestly, I have wanting this series for awhile, but after looking at previews, it doing nothing for me.
Goggindowner
10-23-2011, 02:29 PM
Uncanny X-Men. I made it through Austen, Brubaker, and years of the book not living up to its potential, but I hung in there for the characters. Then, Fraction came along, and I just couldn't handle it anymore.
And that was really a moment of revelation for me. Since that time, I have gotten beyond buying anything in comics that don't live up to my expectations. As a result, I read fewer comics than I ever have. At one point, I wasn't reading anything at all.
That's right, Matt Fraction is the reason my comics buying habits decreased from 15 to 20 books a month, now down to less than 10. And most of those 10 are DC books now. THANKS MATT!!!
Jumpoff!
10-23-2011, 02:53 PM
Ghost rider the new series
RDMacQ
10-23-2011, 03:22 PM
Spider-Man.
CSPDX
10-23-2011, 03:29 PM
Considering I only buy comics I enjoy, I have no sacred cows. The closest thing I have is, I guess, Savage Dragon, a book I used to love a lot but have kind of grown out of. I still enjoy it and every once in a while get a good plotline out of it. It's always been the same guy doing the book, though, so it's not like the creative team can really have much impact unless I were to learn Eric was eating babies or something.
Spider-Man.
For once, I'd love to see someone talk positive about that book, because it's pretty dang good.
Rasputin9977
10-23-2011, 05:28 PM
All the x-titles. These are what interested me in the Marvel U but the direction they have been for the past several years has been so bad.
For once, I'd love to see someone talk positive about that book, because it's pretty dang good.
I left because of OMD. I like Slott's writing but there is no way I would buy a monthly with a $7.98 price tag.
All the x-titles. These are what interested me in the Marvel U but the direction they have been for the past several years has been so bad.
I left because of OMD. I like Slott's writing but there is no way I would buy a monthly with a $7.98 price tag.
OMD's gone, dude. It's been replaced by Big Time, and even so, everyone reading the book now pretty much forgot that ever happened, or at least repressed it so much because they love the current direction.
And $3.99 isn't so bad, especially with how much ASM packs.
Reptisaurus!
10-23-2011, 05:57 PM
Hmm. Odd question. There's nothing. See, my parents used to own a used book/record/comic shop, and I had thousands of comics around in my early age. Most were bronze age, very few were in great shape.
I'd have ten or eleven years of, say, Avengers in front of me, and it wasn't hard to tell that some of 'em were just a little bit... better than others. Which gave me a different perspective than the average comic fan - IE, picking up a stray issue of X-men and saying "THis is the best thing ever! Obviously, X-men comics will continue to be this awesome for forever and always! Because my sample size (1) is 100% awesome! That's science!"
... And there's stuff that I collect. I collect team-up books. I bought DEADPOOL TEAM-UP, even though I enjoy Deadpool stories 'bout as much as Chinese water torture.
Which means that, as a collector, I'm completely aware that I'm paying a lot of money for a bunch of bullhockey. But I like the format, and it's interesting to me even when it's done badly. (Seeing HOW it's done badly, even.) And DEADPOOL TEAM-UP did get better throughout it's run - Better stories, some great Skottie Young covers, and one issue featured the Hellcow, (http://marvel.com/universe/Hellcow) which was damn near enough to redeem the entire series in my eyes.
And I'd assume that most comic fans eventually come to the same attitude. Eventually, there's going to be a stretch in their favorite comic that isn't particularly enjoyable according to their personal, subjective definitions of quality.
And they realize that their initial assumption of how comics work is false. They realize that EVERY long running comic has it's down periods. If they do a little back issue hunting, they probably realize that this isn't the first down period - It might not even be the fourteenth. (I like to gather the neighborhood kids around the campfire on Halloween and tell them the terrifying story of how Justice League of America turned into.. dunh dunh DUN.... Justice League Detroit. AIIIIIEEEEEE!) And they either drop it for something more enjoyable, or decide they have a vested interest in it and keep buying it anyway. This is a part of a process I like to call "Figuring out how the world really works" or "Growing up."
Ramage
10-23-2011, 05:59 PM
OMD's gone, dude. It's been replaced by Big Time, and even so, everyone reading the book now pretty much forgot that ever happened, or at least repressed it so much because they love the current direction.
.
Well, not everyone. I still thinks it sucks. Although maybe I don't qualify since I am a trade guy
Well, not everyone. I still thinks it sucks. Although maybe I don't qualify since I am a trade guy
Well, you know what I mean, Ramage. The majority of comic readers like/love it.
RDMacQ
10-23-2011, 06:26 PM
For once, I'd love to see someone talk positive about that book, because it's pretty dang good.
Lot's of people talk positive about that book. It's practically a love fest on the Spider-Man boards about that book.
But not everyone has the same tastes. JMS' run was excellent for the most part, but not everyone loved that for their own reasons. Just as some people have their own reasons for not liking the book right now. It appeals to different people. Not to mention the way the creators have conducted themselves when facing criticism about the book seemed distasteful to many.
It's not some grand conspiracy. Like it or not, some people may have very valid reasons for not liking the book.
Goggindowner
10-23-2011, 06:28 PM
It's because opinions get too radical. They get too congested and convulted in emotion and you can't tell which is opinion or emotion.
And some opinions are just plain wrong. Yes, they can be. That's my stance.
And as for artists, Bachalo and Ramos are so awesome like you wouldn't believe.
Ugh......I just don't know what to tell you. We have different opinions, and you are going to have to come to terms with it (except on Ultimate Spider Man, I guess). No two people will ever have the same opinion on everything ever, and you can't account for taste.
Well, I guess a mod will delete this post too. Whatever
Lot's of people talk positive about that book. It's practically a love fest on the Spider-Man boards about that book.
But not everyone has the same tastes. JMS' run was excellent for the most part, but not everyone loved that for their own reasons. Just as some people have their own reasons for not liking the book right now. It appeals to different people. Not to mention the way the creators have conducted themselves when facing criticism about the book seemed distasteful to many.
It's not some grand conspiracy. Like it or not, some people may have very valid reasons for not liking the book.
Valid reasons? The one "valid reason" I saw was "I'm not buying because of OMD". That's stubborn, not valid.
RDMacQ
10-23-2011, 06:30 PM
It's because opinions get too radical. They get too congested and convulted in emotion and you can't tell which is opinion or emotion.
And some opinions are just plain wrong. Yes, they can be. That's my stance.
And as for artists, Bachalo and Ramos are so awesome like you wouldn't believe.
Which opinions are wrong? Why are they wrong? What makes their opinions wrong? And if it is your stance that some opinions are just plain wrong, does that not also mean that some of your opinions have the possibility of being wrong as well?
If someone doesn't like Bachalo or Ramos, they're free to dislike them. I think they are good artists, but I also realize that they have their flaws as artists. Their art can be very cluttered. They aren't the best natural storytellers. They both aren't that great at subtle facial expressions, and sometimes what they are trying to express doesn't come along in the quieter moments. Some people can look past these issues and focus on the stuff they do like, some people can't. I personally can't stand Mike McKone's art, but people are free to like what he puts out. I'm not going to say that they are "wrong" for liking it. In a case like this, when dealing with someone's art style, it is very subjective and just comes down to what the individual feels fits their interests more.
Ugh......I just don't know what to tell you. We have different opinions, and you are going to have to come to terms with it (except on Ultimate Spider Man, I guess). No two people will ever have the same opinion on everything ever, and you can't account for taste.
I'll tell you what I have come to terms with: comic fans are crazy, that's what.
RDMacQ
10-23-2011, 06:32 PM
Valid reasons? The one "valid reason" I saw was "I'm not buying because of OMD". That's stubborn, not valid.
Except that's not my reason for not buying. Like the thread title states, I'm not buying the title due to the creative teams. Specifically the writer and the editor. I'm not a fan of the writing style, the story that they are telling, and the conduct of the creators when dealing with people who aren't signing their praises. Is that not a "valid" reason?
Except that's not my reason for not buying. Like the thread title states, I'm not buying the title due to the creative teams. Specifically the writer and the editor. I'm not a fan of the writing style, the story that they are telling, and the conduct of the creators when dealing with people who aren't signing their praises. Is that not a "valid" reason?
Still not valid. Creative teams really shouldn't matter. It's who the characters are that matter.
RDMacQ
10-23-2011, 06:36 PM
Still not valid. Creative teams really shouldn't matter. It's who the characters are that matter.
How is it not valid? I don't like the way the creator writes, I don't like the story, and- on top of that- I'm not a fan of how he conducted himself when faced with criticism on his stories or on opinions that he disagreed with. Creative teams are essential to the story- if you don't like the writing style, if you don't like art, and how the characters are being portrayed BY the creative staff, of course it's going to affect your enjoyment of the story. Just because I like the character doesn't mean I have to like EVERY story they are in.
Goggindowner
10-23-2011, 06:38 PM
Still not valid. Creative teams really shouldn't matter. It's who the characters are that matter.
NOT. AT. ALL. Maybe this works for you, but I find that I get much greater satisfaction from certain writing styles and art styles over others. I care very little about what character the book happens to star.
Example, I don't like Superman as a character. Snooze fest. I DID enjoy All-Star Superman by Grant Morrison. It was very entertaining. No other Superman creative team has captured that magic for me (including Morrison's current Action Comics run) so I haven't bought into them.
RDMacQ
10-23-2011, 06:39 PM
NOT. AT. ALL. Maybe this works for you, but I find that I get much greater satisfaction from certain writing styles and art styles over others. I care very little about what character the book happens to star.
Example, I don't like Superman as a character. Snooze fest. I DID enjoy All-Star Superman by Grant Morrison. It was very entertaining. No other Superman creative team has captured that magic for me (including Morrison's current Action Comics run) so I haven't bought into them.
Exactly. I'm not a fan of either Superman or Batman myself. But I have bought Superman and Batman comics in the past, because I enjoyed the creative teams and who was writing them. I'm interested in seeing how a creative teams works with said character, not the character in and of itself.
Spenser for Hire
10-23-2011, 06:39 PM
How is it not valid? I don't like the way the creator writes, I don't like the story, and- on top of that- I'm not a fan of how he conducted himself when faced with criticism on his stories or on opinions that he disagreed with. Creative teams are essential to the story- if you don't like the writing style, if you don't like art, and how the characters are being portrayed BY the creative staff, of course it's going to affect your enjoyment of the story. Just because I like the character doesn't mean I have to like EVERY story they are in.You are arguing with a kid who hasn't read comics long enough to learn that yet.
CSPDX
10-23-2011, 06:46 PM
Still not valid. Creative teams really shouldn't matter. It's who the characters are that matter.
If creative teams don't matter, and the title of this thread specifies creators, why are you even bothering with it?
Guys, stop feeding the troll. The only way you'll have a valid argument in his eyes is if you agree that Spider-Man is the greatest thing since sliced bread. At this point, all you're doing is providing him with entertainment.
GavinR
10-23-2011, 06:46 PM
And $3.99 isn't so bad, especially with how much ASM packs.
Wow...that is just absurd. $3.99 for a floppy is just a joke at this point.
CSPDX
10-23-2011, 06:52 PM
Hmm. Odd question. There's nothing. See, my parents used to own a used book/record/comic shop, and I had thousands of comics around in my early age. Most were bronze age, very few were in great shape.
I'd have ten or eleven years of, say, Avengers in front of me, and it wasn't hard to tell that some of 'em were just a little bit... better than others. Which gave me a different perspective than the average comic fan - IE, picking up a stray issue of X-men and saying "THis is the best thing ever! Obviously, X-men comics will continue to be this awesome for forever and always! Because my sample size (1) is 100% awesome! That's science!"
... And there's stuff that I collect. I collect team-up books. I bought DEADPOOL TEAM-UP, even though I enjoy Deadpool stories 'bout as much as Chinese water torture.
Which means that, as a collector, I'm completely aware that I'm paying a lot of money for a bunch of bullhockey. But I like the format, and it's interesting to me even when it's done badly. (Seeing HOW it's done badly, even.) And DEADPOOL TEAM-UP did get better throughout it's run - Better stories, some great Skottie Young covers, and one issue featured the Hellcow, (http://marvel.com/universe/Hellcow) which was damn near enough to redeem the entire series in my eyes.
And I'd assume that most comic fans eventually come to the same attitude. Eventually, there's going to be a stretch in their favorite comic that isn't particularly enjoyable according to their personal, subjective definitions of quality.
And they realize that their initial assumption of how comics work is false. They realize that EVERY long running comic has it's down periods. If they do a little back issue hunting, they probably realize that this isn't the first down period - It might not even be the fourteenth. (I like to gather the neighborhood kids around the campfire on Halloween and tell them the terrifying story of how Justice League of America turned into.. dunh dunh DUN.... Justice League Detroit. AIIIIIEEEEEE!) And they either drop it for something more enjoyable, or decide they have a vested interest in it and keep buying it anyway. This is a part of a process I like to call "Figuring out how the world really works" or "Growing up."
This is a good point, thanks. While I stick by my "no sacred cows" comment, I will admit to having regrets to jumping off long running books. Recently, I gave the first issue of Detective Comics a shot even though I've had nothing but dissapointment with Tony Daniel's Batman books mainly because 'Tec is a series I have a really long run on and really, really wanted it to demolish my expectations. Sadly, I'm taking a break from the book. But if it hadn't been 'Tec I probably wouldn't even have gotten the one. The same principal would probably hold true for Fantastic Four, as well.
NOT. AT. ALL. Maybe this works for you, but I find that I get much greater satisfaction from certain writing styles and art styles over others. I care very little about what character the book happens to star.
Example, I don't like Superman as a character. Snooze fest. I DID enjoy All-Star Superman by Grant Morrison. It was very entertaining. No other Superman creative team has captured that magic for me (including Morrison's current Action Comics run) so I haven't bought into them.
And see, this is where I draw the line with opinions.
You are arguing with a kid who hasn't read comics long enough to learn that yet.
If this is what reading comics turns me into, then I don't know if I want to be a part of that.
If creative teams don't matter, and the title of this thread specifies creators, why are you even bothering with it?
Guys, stop feeding the troll. The only way you'll have a valid argument in his eyes is if you agree that Spider-Man is the greatest thing since sliced bread. At this point, all you're doing is providing him with entertainment.
I'm not a troll. I'm simply a new reader who just doesn't understand what the heck everyone's wringing my neck about.
Wow...that is just absurd. $3.99 for a floppy is just a joke at this point.
A very funny joke, since so many people hate it.
How is it not valid? I don't like the way the creator writes, I don't like the story, and- on top of that- I'm not a fan of how he conducted himself when faced with criticism on his stories or on opinions that he disagreed with. Creative teams are essential to the story- if you don't like the writing style, if you don't like art, and how the characters are being portrayed BY the creative staff, of course it's going to affect your enjoyment of the story. Just because I like the character doesn't mean I have to like EVERY story they are in.
I see your point, but still, everyone has a different vision of how a comic is going to go. Especially a character. If you don't like this vision, tons of others may. You can't please everybody, but you always go for that majority.
Five against one? These are impossible odds! :eek: Oh wait...
http://www.samruby.com/AmazingSpider-ManA/Large/AmazingSpider-ManAnnual06.jpg
RDMacQ
10-23-2011, 06:57 PM
I'm not a troll. I'm simply a new reader who just doesn't understand what the heck everyone's wringing my neck about.
We've tried to explain it. But when you go about stating that people's opinions are just plain wrong, and that some opinions simply aren't "valid" without a clear explanation as to why or it's regarding something that doesn't even relate to the topic at hand, you're bound to set yourself up more than anyone else.
I see your point, but still, everyone has a different vision of how a comic is going to go. Especially a character. If you don't like this vision, tons of others may. You can't please everybody, but you always go for that majority.
So why the change in opinion now? Is my concern suddenly "valid?" I thought creative teams didn't matter- only characters "matter." Do you now agree that I have a "valid" reason for not following this one particular book?
Goggindowner
10-23-2011, 07:00 PM
I'm not a troll. I'm simply a new reader who just doesn't understand what the heck everyone's wringing my neck about.
You are getting so much grief because you don't seem to respect the opinions of others at all. And if this really is a result of you being a new reader, then I would say that eventually, you will hit that breaking point where the character doesn't matter nearly as much as the quality of the creative team. I know you don't believe that, but it is most likely true.
So I have to ask, how long have you been reading, and how old are you?
We've tried to explain it. But when you go about stating that people's opinions are just plain wrong, and that some opinions simply aren't "valid" without a clear explanation as to why or it's regarding something that doesn't even relate to the topic at hand, you're bound to set yourself up more than anyone else.
So why the change in opinion now? Is my concern suddenly "valid?" I thought creative teams didn't matter- only characters "matter." Do you now agree that I have a "valid" reason for not following this one particular book?
The change in opinion comes from me knowing what creators do. Look, I'm a creator myself (yes, despite my age and stance, I am). The characters I made changed when I tried to show them to other people. I didn't want that, since I was the one MAKING the book. What happened was that my own resistance to not change MY vision took hold. Only thing different about that than what's happening here is that I can change the character. "Fans" can't do that. They have to sit back and adjust. So in essence, yes, I see what you're saying. But you have to learn how to adjust and not just want your vision for certain characters all the time, because you'll end up being dissappointed.
Goggindowner
10-23-2011, 07:05 PM
The change in opinion comes from me knowing what creators do. Look, I'm a creator myself (yes, despite my age and stance, I am). The characters I made changed when I tried to show them to other people. I didn't want that, since I was the one MAKING the book. What happened was that my own resistance to not change MY vision took hold. Only thing different about that than what's happening here is that I can change the character. "Fans" can't do that. They have to sit back and adjust. So in essence, yes, I see what you're saying. But you have to learn how to adjust and not just want your vision for certain characters all the time, because you'll end up being dissappointed.
Or just choose to read something else that we aren't disappointed in and let the fans who do enjoy those books have them.
Henry Jones Jr.
10-23-2011, 07:07 PM
Wow...that is just absurd. $3.99 for a floppy is just a joke at this point.
I agree. ASM is one of my favorite books I get right now, but I'm still considering dropping it due to that $3.99 price tag. The second the quality drops for a few issues in a row, I think i am going to drop it (or if Slott leaves the book).
I've also dropped Invincible Iron Man and Action Comics (so much for holding the line) due to their price.
The 3.99 price point from Marvel is such a joke when you consider how much quality and quantity you can get from independent books for 2.99.
Apathy Lad
10-23-2011, 07:07 PM
Gog, AXL, could you two just go off and make out, while we get back on-topic?
Anywho, not a Marvel example, but the transition from Gail Simone to Rick Remender on All New Atom led me to drop the title. The dramatic nosedive in quality was pretty weird, since Remender is a very good writer, and in fact, was what made me apprehensive about Uncanny X-Force.
You are getting so much grief because you don't seem to respect the opinions of others at all. And if this really is a result of you being a new reader, then I would say that eventually, you will hit that breaking point where the character doesn't matter nearly as much as the quality of the creative team. I know you don't believe that, but it is most likely true.
So I have to ask, how long have you been reading, and how old are you?
I've been reading comics in general for 5 years (since I was eleven) and was only reading Spider-Man comics. Ultimate Spider-Man and Peter Parker: Spider-Man back issues were all I read. I didn't even branch out into other comics until a year or two ago. And even then, I still only got ASM, USM, Batman, and Batman & Robin. Since then, I still only buy ASM & USM: USM because it's just so dang good and ASM because of Big Time. By the way you can check my profile for my age.
RDMacQ
10-23-2011, 07:12 PM
The change in opinion comes from me knowing what creators do. Look, I'm a creator myself (yes, despite my age and stance, I am). The characters I made changed when I tried to show them to other people. I didn't want that, since I was the one MAKING the book. What happened was that my own resistance to not change MY vision took hold. Only thing different about that than what's happening here is that I can change the character. "Fans" can't do that. They have to sit back and adjust. So in essence, yes, I see what you're saying. But you have to learn how to adjust and not just want your vision for certain characters all the time, because you'll end up being dissappointed.
They are adjusting in their own way. They like the character, but don't like how he or she is being portrayed by the creator. Which is why they don't buy.
Simply sticking by the character regardless of who is working on it is one of the worst things a fan can do. They want to see these characters taken care of in the best way possible. And if they don't feel a creator is doing that, then they aren't going to follow the series.
As I have said many times before, this is a luxury product. Fans to not need it to survive, and it can easily be cut out of their life if they need to save money (something I know from personal experience.) Fans aren't looking to have a vision particularly tailored to them and them alone (that's one of the more frustrating arguments I've seen people throw about when faced with someone making a complaint they disagree with, and quite frankly, I'm sick and tired of it). They're just looking to be entertained. And they shouldn't have to "modify" anything or simply "accept" something, or "love" something just because someone else tells them to.
RDMacQ
10-23-2011, 07:14 PM
I've been reading comics in general for 5 years (since I was eleven) and was only reading Spider-Man comics. Ultimate Spider-Man and Peter Parker: Spider-Man back issues were all I read. I didn't even branch out into other comics until a year or two ago. And even then, I still only got ASM, USM, Batman, and Batman & Robin. Since then, I still only buy ASM & USM: USM because it's just so dang good and ASM because of Big Time. By the way you can check my profile for my age.
You mention you are a creator- what exactly have you published or produced?
Goggindowner
10-23-2011, 07:15 PM
I've been reading comics in general for 5 years (since I was eleven) and was only reading Spider-Man comics. Ultimate Spider-Man and Peter Parker: Spider-Man back issues were all I read. I didn't even branch out into other comics until a year or two ago. And even then, I still only got ASM, USM, Batman, and Batman & Robin. Since then, I still only buy ASM & USM: USM because it's just so dang good and ASM because of Big Time. By the way you can check my profile for my age.
Or I can add 11 and 5 and figure it out:cool:
What you have to understand is that most of us that you are "facing off" against have been reading comics for decades, not years. It's been long enough to see the cycles that exist in the creative process of comics, and long enough to have read enough stuff to figure out that there are always going to be periods for characters that just don't work for us. Which starts to draw into question any rationale for following a character over a creative team.
In time, you will understand:biggrin:
Or just choose to read something else that we aren't disappointed in and let the fans who do enjoy those books have them.
True, but you miss your favorite characters.
Gog, AXL, could you two just go off and make out, while we get back on-topic?
Anywho, not a Marvel example, but the transition from Gail Simone to Rick Remender on All New Atom led me to drop the title. The dramatic nosedive in quality was pretty weird, since Remender is a very good writer, and in fact, was what made me apprehensive about Uncanny X-Force.
LOL! That was weird, You're livin' up to your stage name, there, Lad. :wink:
I'll provide another example: Batman & Robin. I gotta tell you, I couldn't understand a word Grant Morrison was writing, but it was just cool seeing this huge mystery unravel. Then when that was done, I kind of had a "What's next?" thing, and then Paul Cornell and Scott McDaniel did a weird filler arc with a woman who was living with a whole in her head. Yeah...didn't really stick in my pull list...
RDMacQ
10-23-2011, 07:20 PM
True, but you miss your favorite characters.
No. I don't "miss" Spider-Man. I want to read good stories about the character I enjoy, not just any stories about the character.
Again, these are luxury products- they aren't "necessary" to survive.
You mention you are a creator- what exactly have you published or produced?
I've created my own superhero/comic universe called the Q-Verse. Q because the letter's not used often and Quest just sounded like a cool name. I have mainly younger teenage heroes, but also adults as well, and even got my own teams like the Power Elite, THX, and Teen 5.
As of now, I haven't published anything, but I'm still gathering enough in order to publish.
Or I can add 11 and 5 and figure it out:cool:
What you have to understand is that most of us that you are "facing off" against have been reading comics for decades, not years. It's been long enough to see the cycles that exist in the creative process of comics, and long enough to have read enough stuff to figure out that there are always going to be periods for characters that just don't work for us. Which starts to draw into question any rationale for following a character over a creative team.
In time, you will understand:biggrin:
That's what scares me: I don't want to be jaded (no offense).
No. I don't "miss" Spider-Man. I want to read good stories about the character I enjoy, not just any stories about the character.
Again, these are luxury products- they aren't "necessary" to survive.
Okay, touche. But why complain about luxury, then?
RDMacQ
10-23-2011, 07:26 PM
I've created my own superhero/comic universe called the Q-Verse. Q because the letter's not used often and Quest just sounded like a cool name. I have mainly younger teenage heroes, but also adults as well, and even got my own teams like the Power Elite, THX, and Teen 5.
As of now, I haven't published anything, but I'm still gathering enough in order to publish.
So, you don't have any practical experience in the field?
Look, if that is the qualification that you are using to label yourself a "creator," then- hate to break it to you- I'm a creator as well. I've created my own characters, I've created my own universe (several, in fact), and I actually sent some of my stuff out to some publishers and shown my work around.
Hell, I'd say that a lot of people here could say the very same thing. So, sorry to say, you're probably not the "voice of authority" on the issue that you'd like to be.
So, you don't have any practical experience in the field?
Look, if that is the qualification that you are using to label yourself a "creator," then- hate to break it to you- I'm a creator as well. I've created my own characters, I've created my own universe (several, in fact), and I actually sent some of my stuff out to some publishers and shown my work around.
Hell, I'd say that a lot of people here could say the very same thing. So, sorry to say, you're probably not the "voice of authority" on the issue that you'd like to be.
:frown:
Gotta kill my joy...
RDMacQ
10-23-2011, 07:30 PM
Okay, touche. But why complain about luxury, then?
Because they are a luxury product. They aren't a necessity.
Food, water, shelter. These are necessities. We need these things to survive. Comics are entertainment- we get these items if we have time to spare and if we have funds left over. Case in point, in the past- when I had a better paying job- I used to buy a lot of comics. Now, I don't buy as much because I no longer have as good of a paying job. I went from going once a week, to twice a month, to barely even going once a month if even that. I need to focus on the necessities first, moreso than the luxuries. And if I'm going to part with my hard earned cash, I'm going to do so on a title and a series I enjoy and I feel is worth my money. Not just because it has a character I like.
Goggindowner
10-23-2011, 07:31 PM
True, but you miss your favorite characters.
It's not like the X-Men are my neighbors or family. I can always go back and reread the stories that I do like. It's not like my wife moved across the country for business and I never get to see her. They are imaginary characters in an imaginary world that exists on the whim of whoever is writing and drawing it at the time. And I also know that eventually, there will be new stories that I do enjoy.
In an attempt to have something in my posts on topic:
I was really enjoying Avengers prior to Disassembled, and even through the first arc of New Avengers. However, the quality of the writing by Bendis, and the frequent rotation of David Finch on art finally convinced me to drop the title.
SJNeal
10-23-2011, 07:31 PM
All the x-titles. These are what interested me in the Marvel U but the direction they have been for the past several years has been so bad.
Defenders. Honestly, I have wanting this series for awhile, but after looking at previews, it doing nothing for me.
Both of these. "Regenesis" looks promising, but then again so did the last few shack-ups. All the X-books (with the x-ception of X-Factor) are officially on probabtion.
I love the Defenders concept and most of the line-up, and would think I'd be all over it, but again I'm taking a "wait and see" stance.
RDMacQ
10-23-2011, 07:31 PM
:frown:
Gotta kill my joy...
Well, I'm sorry, but if you set yourself up as an "authority" given your stance as a "creator," it helps to provide your credentials. But if you have no practical experience in the industry- or any industry- you're not an authority. You're a commentator. Just like the rest of us.
Because they are a luxury product. They aren't a necessity.
Food, water, shelter. These are necessities. We need these things to survive. Comics are entertainment- we get these items if we have time to spare and if we have funds left over. Case in point, in the past- when I had a better paying job- I used to buy a lot of comics. Now, I don't buy as much because I no longer have as good of a paying job. I went from going once a week, to twice a month, to barely even going once a month if even that. I need to focus on the necessities first, moreso than the luxuries. And if I'm going to part with my hard earned cash, I'm going to do so on a title and a series I enjoy and I feel is worth my money. Not just because it has a character I like.
But that didn't answer why people complain. I get what you're saying about being more careful with purchases, but why do people complain about it?
It's not like the X-Men are my neighbors or family. I can always go back and reread the stories that I do like. It's not like my wife moved across the country for business and I never get to see her. They are imaginary characters in an imaginary world that exists on the whim of whoever is writing and drawing it at the time. And I also know that eventually, there will be new stories that I do enjoy.
In an attempt to have something in my posts on topic:
I was really enjoying Avengers prior to Disassembled, and even through the first arc of New Avengers. However, the quality of the writing by Bendis, and the frequent rotation of David Finch on art finally convinced me to drop the title.
Too be honest, back at those times, I didn't know New Avengers existed. :redface:
Well, I'm sorry, but if you set yourself up as an "authority" given your stance as a "creator," it helps to provide your credentials. But if you have no practical experience in the industry- or any industry- you're not an authority. You're a commentator. Just like the rest of us.
Okay, so maybe not on the business side, but on the creative side, yes those are my credentials. That when I see other people trying to pry apart my vision, then yes, it can be grating.
Goggindowner
10-23-2011, 07:37 PM
So, you don't have any practical experience in the field?
Look, if that is the qualification that you are using to label yourself a "creator," then- hate to break it to you- I'm a creator as well. I've created my own characters, I've created my own universe (several, in fact), and I actually sent some of my stuff out to some publishers and shown my work around.
Hell, I'd say that a lot of people here could say the very same thing. So, sorry to say, you're probably not the "voice of authority" on the issue that you'd like to be.
I have actually self-published two comics. Krudge and Dr Proton. And to be honest, I write stories that I would want to read. If anybody else enjoys them, then that is amazing. If not, oh well.
I have actually self-published two comics. Krudge and Dr Proton. And to be honest, I write stories that I would want to read. If anybody else enjoys them, then that is amazing. If not, oh well.
And that's my stance as well. I may not have the resources as of now to publish, but for my stories, if I enjoy them (which 99% of the time I do), then I can hand them to my target audience and they may like it as well.
RDMacQ
10-23-2011, 07:41 PM
But that didn't answer why people complain. I get what you're saying about being more careful with purchases, but why do people complain about it?
Because when they purchased a product, they have earned the privilege to comment on it's contents. Or to comment about what they have seen.
Okay, so maybe not on the business side, but on the creative side, yes those are my credentials. That when I see other people trying to pry apart my vision, then yes, it can be grating.
But really, that doesn't mean all that much to anyone else. I don't know how good of a creator you ARE. When Kurt Busiek or Roger Stern comment about the creative process, I have their work to go back to and their reputations to know how good they are and how seriously to take their statements. I know how good they are, because I can see their work for myself.
RDMacQ
10-23-2011, 07:45 PM
I have actually self-published two comics. Krudge and Dr Proton. And to be honest, I write stories that I would want to read. If anybody else enjoys them, then that is amazing. If not, oh well.
Hey, I self published a book myself. I still don't consider myself a creator.
But my position is that I would like to put out stories that I would want to see as well. But I would also like people to enjoy those stories. I mean, I can produce stories that fit my specific needs and my needs alone till the cows come home. But I wouldn't really improve as an artist if I didn't open myself up to some constructive criticism. I was really satisfied with a lot of artwork I produced, and it was of things I was really interested in. Then I showed it to Erik Larsen, and he proceeded to rip it apart and tell me exactly what I was doing wrong. And then I knew how to improve to make myself a better artist and produce things that MORE people would enjoy and would in turn make me a more satisfied artist.
Goggindowner
10-23-2011, 07:49 PM
Hey, I self published a book myself. I still don't consider myself a creator.
But my position is that I would like to put out stories that I would want to see as well. But I would also like people to enjoy those stories. I mean, I can produce stories that fit my specific needs and my needs alone till the cows come home. But I wouldn't really improve as an artist if I didn't open myself up to some constructive criticism. I was really satisfied with a lot of artwork I produced, and it was of things I was really interested in. Then I showed it to Erik Larsen, and he proceeded to rip it apart and tell me exactly what I was doing wrong. And then I knew how to improve to make myself a better artist and produce things that MORE people would enjoy and would in turn make me a more satisfied artist.
You are absolutely right. Fortunately, I have friends who are incredibly hard to please that I can bounce stuff off of (one of them a frequent collaborator). I come up with stuff, get nothing but negative feedback, and find ways to make it better. Once my critical friends are pleased, I figure I have......something at least.
Oh, and I wasn't trying to established credibility, I was just building off of your post about there being a lot of people around here who have created, but aren't "creators."
RDMacQ
10-23-2011, 07:58 PM
You are absolutely right. Fortunately, I have friends who are incredibly hard to please that I can bounce stuff off of (one of them a frequent collaborator). I come up with stuff, get nothing but negative feedback, and find ways to make it better. Once my critical friends are pleased, I figure I have......something at least.
Oh, and I wasn't trying to established credibility, I was just building off of your post about there being a lot of people around here who have created, but aren't "creators."
I understood where you were coming from. I was just trying to expand upon the idea of what it does mean to establish oneself in a creative capacity and what it actually means.
Jeez...:frown:
I think I liked it better when the kids used to pick on me for reading comics...
RDMacQ
10-23-2011, 08:01 PM
Jeez...:frown:
I think I liked it better when the kids used to pick on me for reading comics...
If you truly want to be a creator, and want to improve as an artist in any capacity, then you need to learn how to deal with criticism.
If you truly want to be a creator, and want to improve as an artist in any capacity, then you need to learn how to deal with criticism.
Same thing my dad tells me.
Although you're far from my father.
Prince Of Orphans
10-23-2011, 08:04 PM
The upcoming Avengers Assemble ongoing.
The upcoming Avengers Assemble ongoing.
You thought you would never not buy it?
Paladin King
10-23-2011, 08:11 PM
The upcoming Avengers Assemble ongoing.
Same. I'd generally buy every major Avengers book, but I don't really need a THIRD 4 buck Bendis Avengers book on my monthly pull list, nor do I need an Avengers book whose sole mandate is to cash in on a movie.
I'll probably trade-wait it in the end, though.
Maybe it was optimism caused by Jason Aaron's incredible run, but I always thought I'd pick up Ghost Rider. Man, did Rob Williams make a fool out of me. I kept trying to convince myself that the first couple of issues were decent but man is Williams horrible.
Hulk_Is
10-23-2011, 08:19 PM
Moon Knight. Avid fan since 2006. BMB came onboard, I got off. Worst case scenario.
B. Kuwanger
10-23-2011, 08:28 PM
Moon Knight is a sad story, because I LOVE the character and all the MK comics I've read, and I once said something like "I would buy a used piece of toilet paper if it had a Bendis/Maleev story on it" but I don't wanna touch it. I don't think I ever will.
Uncanny, now that Land is gone, is once again a buy for me. Fraction being gone also helps.
Icefalcon
10-23-2011, 08:34 PM
Anything with Yu drawing it. i actually stopped Avengers until he left because I really hate his style. Going forward anything Fraction writes because I have not enjoyed anything he's done so far.
Goggindowner
10-23-2011, 08:37 PM
The upcoming Avengers Assemble ongoing.
If I want to read a comic book that resemble how the Avengers in the movie are, I'll just re-read Millar's Ultimates 1 and 2 again.
RDMacQ
10-23-2011, 08:47 PM
Same thing my dad tells me.
Although you're far from my father.
Never assumed that I was. But you might want to take into account that you are getting the same advice from several sources, including your own parent.
Rasputin9977
10-23-2011, 08:51 PM
Anything with Yu drawing it. i actually stopped Avengers until he left because I really hate his style. Going forward anything Fraction writes because I have not enjoyed anything he's done so far.
I really liked Yu's art style when he was drawing Wolverine back in the mid-90s. I wish he would go back to drawing like that.
If I want to read a comic book that resemble how the Avengers in the movie are, I'll just re-read Millar's Ultimates 1 and 2 again.
How good was Ultimates by the way? I never got around to reading it (mainly because back then, I didn't know it was around :redface:)
How good is it?
Never assumed that I was. But you might want to take into account that you are getting the same advice from several sources, including your own parent.
Parents. With an s.
Darkrook
10-23-2011, 09:04 PM
ALL the X-books just pure Scottie-porn written junk. Want to make these books great again find writers that are able to write them excluding scott and wolverine.
Goggindowner
10-23-2011, 09:05 PM
How good was Ultimates by the way? I never got around to reading it (mainly because back then, I didn't know it was around :redface:)
How good is it?
In my opinion (if you find it valid:tongue:) is that Millar's Ultimates run is one of the greatest super hero stories ever. It is grounded in a way that the Avengers never have been, and the characters are completely flawed in the best ways. Plus it is the perfect example of how good Bryan Hitch can be, and when you read collected editions, you don't have to wait 6 to 8 months between issues :biggrin:
In my opinion (if you find it valid:tongue:) is that Millar's Ultimates run is one of the greatest super hero stories ever. It is grounded in a way that the Avengers never have been, and the characters are completely flawed in the best ways. Plus it is the perfect example of how good Bryan Hitch can be, and when you read collected editions, you don't have to wait 6 to 8 months between issues :biggrin:
Sounds like a cool read.
Nomads1
10-24-2011, 06:12 AM
Avengers by BMB. Always was a huge Avengers fan. Stuck on, even through Liefield's abominal Heroes Reborn (honestly, that was like done by a 4 years old), and some other bad periods, knowing that it would eventually always get better. Was hating Austen's run, than came that "hot new creator" with his Avengers disassembled. Didn't like it, but took it for what it was, board cleaning, setting up things for his New Avengers. Enjoyed the first arc, even though I found the inclusion of Wolverine forced and it's justification boardering the absurd. After that, things became a little bit dull, with the Avengers pratically serving as cameos in their own book for the Sentry arc and then four or five issues with EMH struggling against freakin' NINJAS! Things didn't look good. Despite the desrespectful off-panel offing of Alpha Flight, the Collective arc started okay, but was really disappointing at the end. The Civil War tie-in's were some of Bendis best work on the book, but after CW, when the Avengers returned with a basically street level team to face ninjas again, I finnaly came to terms that he wasn't going to cut it. Still stuck around for a couple more years, in the hope that it would get better. His run would end, and someone else that got the team would come around. Seige was the straw that broke the camel's back. It was the perfect ending for Bendis run, and he didn't take it. He was going to "relaunch the franchise". I'd had enough (more than enough, actually). 5 years of sucky stories (talk about a waste of money). Couldn't take it anymore. Did something I never thought I'd do. Dropped Avengers, and won't read it again until Bendis is gone. Ever since, my comics reading habits have become quite restricted. Way to go, Marvel and Bendis.
Peace
Imraith Nimphais
10-24-2011, 06:13 AM
Uncanny X-Men.
I bought and read UXM 500 and thanks to He-who-must-never-be-named, the Dodderingsons and "the Tracer" I dropped the title immediately and haven't bought it since...after decades of reading and collecting UXM.
From the snippets I've read recently, Gillen remains un-impressive and "the Tracer" is still doing wot he does best...so it looks like I am still off UXM for the foreseable future.
Prince Of Orphans
10-24-2011, 05:57 PM
You thought you would never not buy it?
Let me put it this way, I don't buy NA or Avengers because i just don't dig the writing style, so if you told me another Avengers ongoing was going to start up, I'd be all over it. And then you tell me it's the same writer, and my reaction would quickly change.
Frank
10-24-2011, 09:20 PM
Avengers
Uncanny X-Men
My two favorite concepts in comics. But they really don't want me to buy them.
Sometime It's like Marvel is doing things out of spite.
Frank
10-24-2011, 09:21 PM
The upcoming Avengers Assemble ongoing.
Thought about the same thing. "This looks fun...and Bagley(!!!)". But then I saw...Bendis.
strathcona
10-25-2011, 09:42 AM
Let me put it this way, I don't buy NA or Avengers because i just don't dig the writing style, so if you told me another Avengers ongoing was going to start up, I'd be all over it. And then you tell me it's the same writer, and my reaction would quickly change.
Completely agree. I never thought there would be a time when I wouldn't read Avengers. Yes, I dropped it during Heroes Reborn, but that doesn't count because it was an alternate reality. There may have been other books that I considered my favourite for a time, but overall, Avengers was my all time favourite title across my 20+ years of reading comics. Bendis came on and smashed that in one arc. I tried to stick with it, because I thought maybe it was an anomaly, after all, I had heard such good things about his writing. I couldn't even make it through his first three arcs... it was just horrible.
brundlefly
10-25-2011, 10:16 AM
There have been times that pretty much every Marvel book that I've ever been a huge fan of and thought I would 'never not buy' ended up with a creative team that I found unappealing and I jumped ship for the duration of their reign (quite often on more than one occasion). Uncanny X-Men. Fantastic Four. Spidey. Thunderbolts (skipped out on the 'Fightbolts' era, natch). Cap. Iron Man. Avengers. Daredevil. And I'm a longtime Defenders fanboy, too, but I won't be pulling that team's upcoming relaunch due to Fraction helming it, either. There's always something else good to read in the interim while you wait out a particular team's reign of terror, and often you take a chance and discover an altogether new book to fill the gap, like I did with books like Busiek's T-Bolts, Priest's Black Panther, Ostrander's Heroes for Hire, etc, when they launched in the 90s and I was avoiding 'Heroes Reborn'. I'm not that big a fan of any character that I'll suffer through issue after issue of bad comics just because of one character's involvement in them.
mikekerrIII
10-25-2011, 10:53 AM
For once, I'd love to see someone talk positive about that book, because it's pretty dang good.
I think you will find that some people disagree with you, and find a Peter Parker no more mature than he was a 15 lacks entertainment value. Some like it others do not
OMD's gone, dude. It's been replaced by Big Time, and even so, everyone reading the book now pretty much forgot that ever happened, or at least repressed it so much because they love the current direction.
And $3.99 isn't so bad, especially with how much ASM packs.
The consequences of OMD and vOMIT are gone? What issue did that happen in?
Still not valid. Creative teams really shouldn't matter. It's who the characters are that matter.
The character was destroyed by the last "creative team" and the current one is continuing that destrucction. The creative team creates the character and the character has no existence separate from what the creators give him
I simply don't like the current teams putz Spider-man, It not a character I recognize as Spider-man
On topic, I will buy nothing with Himes or Cards name on the cover.
Frodo-X
10-25-2011, 11:34 AM
The Mighty Thor - I love Thor, but it didn't take long for me to realize that Fraction isn't going to write him well (for me).
Uncanny X-men - I was an X-men fan before anything, so they always had a place in my list. Until Fraction took over. I wasn't terribly impressed with Brubaker's run, but it only got worse when he left. Fortunately, Gillen has got the title moving in a good direction again.
And it may not come to pass, but I absolutely love the Cosmic titles more than any others, but if the rumors come to pass and Loeb takes them over, I may wind up passing.
Brother Justin Crowe
10-25-2011, 11:59 AM
Past and present...
Thunderbolts (Parker)
Cable (Swierczynski)
Deapdool (Way)
Iron Man (Fraction)
Thor (Fraction)
Anything PAD or Land touch
Hulk (Loeb)
Ultimates (Loeb)
Uncanny X-Men (Fraction)
Silver Surfer (Pak)
Alpha Flight (Pak/Van Lente)
Daredevil (Brubaker, Diggle)
Some of these dudes (Bru, Parker, Swierczynski) I actually like, but they were either just ill-suited for the book and/or the stories they were trying to tell just didn't work.
MonteMike72
10-25-2011, 12:02 PM
There was a time when I would buy say an Avengers book no matter what creative team was on it. Same goes for FF, Spider-Man and so on. Today I have a very long list of creators whom I avoid. So if creator X is on book Y and creator X is on my list I will not buy book Y.
strathcona
10-25-2011, 12:49 PM
There was a time when I would buy say an Avengers book no matter what creative team was on it. Same goes for FF, Spider-Man and so on. Today I have a very long list of creators whom I avoid. So if creator X is on book Y and creator X is on my list I will not buy book Y.
That makes me think. There are very few, if any, creators whose work I will pick up no matter the character... but there is a growing list of creators whose work I will NOT pick up, no matter the character.
coconutphone
10-25-2011, 12:52 PM
For once, I'd love to see someone talk positive about that book, because it's pretty dang good.
Oh yeah poor ol'ASM really takes it on the chin on the Spidey board. Not overly praised at all there.
coconutphone
10-25-2011, 12:54 PM
Still not valid. Creative teams really shouldn't matter. It's who the characters are that matter.
That's... insane. Creative teams especially writers are a HUGE factor. Not everyone thinks a character is writer-proof.
crossbones
10-25-2011, 01:33 PM
dropped Avengers and New Avengers recently.
it's traditionally been my favorite book for the longest time but i can't stomach Bendis anymore. at all.
InSovietRussia
10-25-2011, 02:06 PM
I love the idea of a revamped Defenders, but with Fraction writing, I'll pass. He ruins everything he touches. Think I'm exaggerating? Go to the X-boards and Avengers forum and ask what fans though of his runs on Uncanny X-Men and Thor.
RDMacQ
10-25-2011, 02:14 PM
Oh yeah poor ol'ASM really takes it on the chin on the Spidey board. Not overly praised at all there.
Hell, it's rare when you actually hear anyone say anything critical about that book. It's like the inverse of the Avengers boards- whereas no one seems to like that book, everyone seems to love ASM.
RDMacQ
10-25-2011, 02:16 PM
That's... insane. Creative teams especially writers are a HUGE factor. Not everyone thinks a character is writer-proof.
Just look at Aquaman. Largely seen as a joke character, until the right creators came along.
Karl Cook
10-25-2011, 02:53 PM
Amazing Spider-Man
Deadpool
Moon Knight
X-Men
CyberHubbs
10-25-2011, 03:01 PM
Hell, it's rare when you actually hear anyone say anything critical about that book. It's like the inverse of the Avengers boards- whereas no one seems to like that book, everyone seems to love ASM.
I don't think that's particularly true.
SomeBodyAtCBR
10-25-2011, 04:39 PM
Avengers. Especially considering I tolerated Bendis's run for a while (when read in trade) but Dark Reign killed me on him. I can't read another word that knucklehead writes and take it seriously. Everything is a joke to him.
OMD's gone, dude. It's been replaced by Big Time, and even so, everyone reading the book now pretty much forgot that ever happened, or at least repressed it so much because they love the current direction.
And $3.99 isn't so bad, especially with how much ASM packs.
This man speaks the truth. Honestly, how much was lost from aborting the marriage? I can't remember one time MJ was portrayed as a competent wife aside from JMS. She does nothing more than sit in the apartment all day and look out the window or tries to call Peter. Or maybe sits and cries with Harry's ex.
I've heard it's because "there aren't competent writers" that the marriage sucked, but how much longer were you willing to wait? Mary Jane may have stopped crying since Maximum Carnage into JMS's run, but she still didn't do anything truly interesting. Get hit on by Wolverine? Try to get Aunt May laid by Jarvis? That's sooo interesting.
I could care less that by aborting the marriage they "youngified" Peter. I'm just glad that annoying crybaby isn't taking up air time reserved for good story.
Rant aside, it's an effing awesome book and you should at least try an issue. You may not like the decision to do such a big retcon, but seriously look back on the marriage and tell me they were better off spending 2-4 pages an issue with Mary Jane crying/bitching/moaning/complaining about/to Peter/Spider-Man.
RDMacQ
10-25-2011, 07:47 PM
This man speaks the truth. Honestly, how much was lost from aborting the marriage? I can't remember one time MJ was portrayed as a competent wife aside from JMS. She does nothing more than sit in the apartment all day and look out the window or tries to call Peter. Or maybe sits and cries with Harry's ex.
Sorry, but there were plenty of stories where she did more than that.
And the other side of the argument is "What has been gained by aborting the marriage?" Peter dates Carlie Cooper? Really? That's the epic story that couldn't be told while Spidey was married to a - lets face it- far more interesting and compelling character?
I've heard it's because "there aren't competent writers" that the marriage sucked, but how much longer were you willing to wait?
I didn't have to wait. A lot of writers wrote it competently. This is just one side of the conversation trying to dictate the content- just because someone says a character did something "all the time," doesn't mean that they did.
Mary Jane may have stopped crying since Maximum Carnage into JMS's run, but she still didn't do anything truly interesting. Get hit on by Wolverine? Try to get Aunt May laid by Jarvis? That's sooo interesting.
Still way more interesting and compelling than "Gets a tattoo of Spider-Man after a few too many drinks."
Also, she did way more than that. Again, another example of exaggerating or outright fabrication of the events that did happen.
I could care less that by aborting the marriage they "youngified" Peter. I'm just glad that annoying crybaby isn't taking up air time reserved for good story.
Yes. Now instead of an interesting and well developed character with an interesting and compelling backstory who has flaws to go along with her positive personality traits, we have a boring, two dimensional harpy who we are constantly told is interesting rather than actually seeing it for ourselves, and who is simply a distillation the parts of other, better characters and yet somehow still manages to be the most boring part of the book.
Rant aside, it's an effing awesome book and you should at least try an issue. You may not like the decision to do such a big retcon, but seriously look back on the marriage and tell me they were better off spending 2-4 pages an issue with Mary Jane crying/bitching/moaning/complaining about/to Peter/Spider-Man.
And people have tried it and- retcon aside- still don't find it satisfying for other reasons. And they might be- quite frankly- tired of the fact that every time they mention they dislike the book, someone makes it into a conversation about OMD and the marriage and goes off on a rant as to why that status quo was bad and why this one is so much better, instead of actually talking about WHY the person dislikes the book which usually has nothing to do with those factors. When someone says they hate Bendis' Avengers, it not because they're just upset with Disassembled. And if someone doesn't like ASM, it's not just because they dislike OMD.
vh4ever
10-25-2011, 08:50 PM
Avengers by BMB. Always was a huge Avengers fan. Stuck on, even through Liefield's abominal Heroes Reborn (honestly, that was like done by a 4 years old), and some other bad periods, knowing that it would eventually always get better. Was hating Austen's run, than came that "hot new creator" with his Avengers disassembled. Didn't like it, but took it for what it was, board cleaning, setting up things for his New Avengers. Enjoyed the first arc, even though I found the inclusion of Wolverine forced and it's justification boardering the absurd. After that, things became a little bit dull, with the Avengers pratically serving as cameos in their own book for the Sentry arc and then four or five issues with EMH struggling against freakin' NINJAS! Things didn't look good. Despite the desrespectful off-panel offing of Alpha Flight, the Collective arc started okay, but was really disappointing at the end. The Civil War tie-in's were some of Bendis best work on the book, but after CW, when the Avengers returned with a basically street level team to face ninjas again, I finnaly came to terms that he wasn't going to cut it. Still stuck around for a couple more years, in the hope that it would get better. His run would end, and someone else that got the team would come around. Seige was the straw that broke the camel's back. It was the perfect ending for Bendis run, and he didn't take it. He was going to "relaunch the franchise". I'd had enough (more than enough, actually). 5 years of sucky stories (talk about a waste of money). Couldn't take it anymore. Did something I never thought I'd do. Dropped Avengers, and won't read it again until Bendis is gone. Ever since, my comics reading habits have become quite restricted. Way to go, Marvel and Bendis.
Peace
Wow, I never got THAT far. Avengers #503 was my last as a Avengers fan, and my run started with #80, it took 4 issues for me to realize that Bendis meant the end for me, still won't pick up anything associated with him.
I quit Peter Parker's adventures WAY back at #400, and haven't come back yet either, despite the Kool Aid Marvel wants the fans to drink in regards to OMD, BND, and Wacker being a douchebag, it saves me $8 a month to try other things, and from Marvel, that's about 12-15 titles that I do enjoy. I keep up on things w/ Peter and the Avengers mainly through spoilers etc. but haven't and won't give Marvel a nickel towards the actual purchase. The internets being such a wonderful place and all.
paulski
10-26-2011, 12:56 AM
Books you thought you would never not buy but didn't/don't due to creative teams.
Hello, Mr Bendis (on Avengers)! I had every single issue of the book going back to #221 (1982) but I could eventually take no more and dropped it with #1 of the latest series. New Avengers followed shortly thereafter.
Likewise with Amazing Spider-Man - every issue going back to #235 but I dropped it due to dissatisfaction with the quality of the artists on the book (after #607). I didn't like having to buy a book with poor artwork 3 times a month.
And Fantastic Four is the third of my formally 'undroppable trinity' (every issue going back to #234) but Millar took care of of that one after only four issues of his recent run.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.0 Copyright © 2013 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.