Grant Morrison’s Wonder Woman Series Planned For 2012 “Or Thereabouts”

[sethysquare]

Source (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/10/13/grant-morrisons-wonder-woman-series-planned-for-2012-or-thereabouts)

In an interview conducted at the Edinburgh Festival, Grant Morrison talked a lot about comics, superheroes, life and fiction. He also touched on Wonder Woman and her creator William Moulton Marston, and Grant’s plans for her. Here are a few extracts from the transcribed interview.


So him and his wife had a lover called Olive Byrne, a younger, an 18 year old, and they were both sort of professors, and Olive was the original physical model for Wonder Woman. And Elizabeth Marston and Charles [William's pen name] basically created this character, because they felt that Superman represented a kind of blood-curdling masculinity as they said, so they wanted to introduce somebody who was a bit more feminine, but now at the same time Marston also had all these amazing kinks, because he had this idea that basically the world would be better if men would just submit to women’s complete instruction…

…there’s a story where Wonder Woman rescues the slave girls of an evil Nazi villain, and the slave girls don’t know what to do, even though they’ve been rescued they’re kind of, they like being slaves. So Wonder Woman just says “Oh, don’t worry, you can be slaves on Paradise Island and one of our girls will take over but she’ll be really nice to you unlike the Nazi!”, and that was seen as, that was the resolution to the story! You’ve got a nice mistress instead of a crop-cracking Paula Von Gunther.

…So Marston had all these ideas and it was very deep, there was a book by him which was hidden in the DC Comics vaults because they didn’t really want anyone to see it, and a friend of mine at DC sneaked it out for me one time. And it’s this thing, and honestly you can’t read it, it’s deranged, it’s like the guys just done mescaline or something, talking about his sexual theories.

…But then Marston died, and that energy left the strip, it just disappeared… when you took the sex out of Wonder Woman, the thing went flat. And the sales died immediately after Marston himself died and never ever recovered.

… I think I’ve found a way, but I’m not gonna tell you what I’ve done because hopefully the Wonder Woman series will be out next year sometime or thereabouts. But I think I’ve found a way to get all that back in again but it took a lot of reading. This has been the hardest project I’ve ever done.

[sethysquare]

Well. Im going to buy Grant's Wonder Woman fosho

[Mart]

Now this sounds interesting! Just so long as it has Etta thrashing crooks.

[Satch]

I don't know about anybody else, but I really want whatever that secret Marston book is.

[Donna M.]

Let the pissing and moaning begin!

I personally would like to see at least one of the following artists involved:
George Perez
Phil Jimenez
Colleen Doran
Nicola Scott
Eric Shanower
Gene Ha
JH Williams III
Adam Hughes
Ryan Sook

Anyone else who isn't on the same tier as these artist would be unacceptable!

[Seant]

I thought the artist attached was Ethan von Sciver. Although of course that could change.

[Free-Man]

I thought the artist attached was Ethan von Sciver. Although of course that could change.

I've never heard anything about that. He's doing Firestorm and another book with Gail Simone, so I'm not sure how free he is.

The Bleedingcool rumor just prior to the relaunch was that Phil would be drawing it. Either way, I can't wait!

[Themysciranprince]

Let the pissing and moaning begin!

I personally would like to see at least one of the following artists involved:
George Perez
Phil Jimenez
Colleen Doran
Nicola Scott
Eric Shanower
Gene Ha
JH Williams III
Adam Hughes
Ryan Sook

Anyone else who isn't on the same tier as these artist would be unacceptable!

Donna, when I met Phil, we discussed this project. He is not involved, but he said that the art and artist were good, so the project has already been started. I am excited.

[CaptMagellan]

Woo-Hoo!!!

[DarkKnghtJared]

Oh hell yea. :biggrin:

[Nyssane]

I can't wait! I feel like he'll finally do what I've been waiting for someone to do: bring her back to her Marston roots.

[Watery Eyes]

Let the pissing and moaning begin!



Are these going to be the kinks incorporated into the Wonder Woman comics when Grant takes over? Sorry, it was too hard to resist. :biggrin:

[CaptainBarbel]

Let the pissing and moaning begin!

I personally would like to see at least one of the following artists involved:
George Perez
Phil Jimenez
Colleen Doran
Nicola Scott
Eric Shanower
Gene Ha
JH Williams III
Adam Hughes
Ryan Sook

Anyone else who isn't on the same tier as these artist would be unacceptable!

How about manapul? his wonderwoman is badass

[The Surrealist]

Excellent, something to look forward to for sure, Grant's Wonder Woman.

[T Hedge Coke]

Jill Thomspon. In her "Endless digest" style.

Please.

[liopleurodon]

If I had a tail, I'd be wagging it so fast right now. :biggrin:

[FailureByDesign]

I really wish it was an elseworld OGN with Ryan Sook or someone else of great talent.

[DarkKnghtJared]

How about manapul? his wonderwoman is badass

On one hand--HELL YES.

On the other hand--that might mean he'd have to leave Flash for a while.

...

Clearly the best option is to have Manapul cloned so he can do both at the same time.

[Free-Man]

On one hand--HELL YES.

On the other hand--that might mean he'd have to leave Flash for a while.

...

Clearly the best option is to have Manapul cloned so he can do both at the same time.

Maybe one of those monsters he hunted can duplicate him!

For similar reasons, I withdrew my initial suggeston of JH Williams. I'd love to see him on WW, but that would mean leaving Batwoman. And I will not allow that.

[Sacred Knight]

Sounds cool to me. It'll be interesting to see if he incorporates and of Azzarello's stuff, namely the dad thing, since that's a pretty big deal. Unless its set in the past or something where she still doesn't know and it serves as kind a Secret (or not so secret since the universe is rebooted now anyway) Origin.

[Superdog]

Can we just put Grant Morrison in charge of the entire DC universe, please?

[Alex Keller]

:eek: This is going to be great.

[Imraith Nimphais]

Hmmm...I do not know.

I love the character Wonder Woman.
By all accounts, G.M. is the best writer in the genre, currently. (Though I have to admit, his writing does not 'impress' me. But one must give credit where and when it is due.)

I am not sure I care to read a Wonder Woman steeped in...al be it historical and pertinent to the character herself...S&M/Sexual subtext.

My interest at this point is nil...pending the announcement of the artist.

[DragonPiece]

HELL YES!

He did amazing work to Batman, we are currently seeing history made with his Superman, and now he will do a Wonder Woman series? YES!

[BnL]

Let the pissing and moaning begin!

The line forms behind you, apparently! :tongue:

I'm glad that it's happening so soon, and that it's actually in the works already. I'm slightly wary of what he intends to do with the bondage stuff, but I'm very excited about the fact that he intends to adhere to Marston's intentions for the character.

As for the art, since this appears to be a tribute to the Golden Age, I'd kind of like to see an artist with a more "retro" of "cartoon-y" style. Amanda Conner, Darwyn Cooke, Mike Allred...someone like that.

[hypotherion]

Thought I'd post the entire thing (http://www.comicbookgrrrl.com/2011/10/12/grant-morrison-at-the-edinburgh-book-festival-full-and-uncut/) instead of just the bit Bleeding Cool had up:


On Grant's Wonder Woman as a sexualised/fetishised character and how he'd handle her portrayal:

Grant: Ooh I'm sweating the minute you said fetish! [laughs] Well yeah, interestingly the thing about Wonder Woman, I don't know if people know this, you probably all know this, but I'm gonna tell you it again just to bore you, but Wonder Woman was created by William Moulton Marston, who was a pop-psychologist and a little bit more than that in the 30s and 40s, and basically he was a kind of proponent of free love and that kind of you know, 1950s post-Kinsey stuff. So him and his wife had a lover called Olive Byrne, a younger, an 18 year old, and they were both sort of professors, and Olive was the original physical model for Wonder Woman. And Elizabeth Marston and Charles [William's pen name] basically created this character, because they felt that Superman represented a kind of blood-curdling masculinity as they said, so they wanted to introduce somebody who was a bit more feminine, but now at the same time Marston also had all these amazing kinks, because he had this idea that basically the world would be better if men would just submit to women's complete instruction. And I'm sure many of you may agree! [laughs] But he took it all the way, not just submit to instruction but get collars on, and get down on all fours, and just admit that's where you belong guys!

So a lot of the Wonder Woman stories had this thread through them, this idea of bondage but it was "loving submission" Marston called it. And it was this notion that, as I said in the book, there's a story where Wonder Woman rescues the slave girls of an evil Nazi villain, and the slave girls don't know what to do, even though they've been rescued they're kind of, they like being slaves. So Wonder Woman just says "Oh, don't worry, you can be slaves on Paradise Island and one of our girls will take over but she'll be really nice to you unlike the Nazi!", and that was seen as, that was the resolution to the story! You've got a nice mistress instead of a crop-cracking Paula Von Gunther.

So Marston had all these ideas and it was very deep, there was a book by him which was hidden in the DC Comics vaults because they didn't really want anyone to see it, and a friend of mine at DC sneaked it out for me one time. And it's this thing, and honestly you can't read it, it's deranged, it's like the guys just done mescaline or something, talking about his sexual theories. And it reads like William Burroughs, it's all this stuff about the luminous women from Venus and how they'll tie something round you and you'll be sorted out! So there was that, the Wonder Woman strip had this weird libidinous kind of element and obviously on Paradise Island, it was this amazing Second Wave, separatist, feminist idea of an entire island where women had ruled for 3000 years and what they did for fun was chase one another! So the girls would dress up like stags and run through the forest and another girl would chase them and then they'd capture the girl, tie her up and put her on a table and pretend to eat her at a mock banquet. This is a typical Wonder Woman adventure! [laughs] In 1941.

But then Marston died, and that energy left the strip, it just disappeared. They were really worried about what he was doing, the bondage elements were becoming more and more overt, but the sales were good! [laughs] This was working! Unlike Superman, as you say, I started looking at trying to do a Wonder Woman that brought back some of these elements but without it being prurient or exploitative.

Superman when he began was, he could throw people out of windows, you used to see him drop kicking guys into the ocean, and obviously that would kill you. You know Batman had a gun and sometimes he would shoot people. But those things weren't intrinsic to the strips, you know, you could take out those elements, you could take out the murder element of Superman and Batman and the strips still worked. But when you took the sex out of Wonder Woman, the thing went flat. And the sales died immediately after Marston himself died and never ever recovered.

So it seemed that there was something about those libidinous elements that were actually fundamental to the concept of Wonder Woman, and trying to find a way to put those back without being William Moulton Marston and not being into what he was into, was quite a difficult thing. But yeah, I think I've found a way, but I'm not gonna tell you what I've done because hopefully the Wonder Woman series will be out next year sometime or thereabouts. But I think I've found a way to get all that back in again but it took a lot of reading. This has been the hardest project I've ever done. I had to read feminist theory all the way through, from Simone De Beauvoir to Andrea Dworkin and apply it to this character. And to try and do something that incorporated those ideas but completely took them in a different direction. So I mean beyond that I'll say, Wonder Woman needs sex definitely because you know, again as I said in the book, they kind of transformed her into a cross between the Virgin Mary and Mary Tyler Moore. This girl scout who had no sexuality at all and the character's never quite worked since then.

In the way that Superman's supposed to stand for men but at least he's allowed to have some kind of element of sexuality, Wonder Woman is expected to stand for women without any element of sexuality, and that seems wrong. I don't know if that answers the question but it shows I've been thinking about it! [laughs]

[BnL]

"So the girls would dress up like stags and run through the forest and another girl would chase them and then they'd capture the girl, tie her up and put her on a table and pretend to eat her at a mock banquet. This is a typical Wonder Woman adventure! [laughs] In 1941."

I think he's over-stating it a bit here. I've been reading a bit of Marston's Wonder Woman comics lately, and from what I've seen, events this overt were far from "typical." Considering how much you hear about the bondage of Golden Age Wonder Woman, there appears to be, to my eye at least, much less of it than one might expect, and even fewer of the more "extreme" examples like the one described above.

I'm definitely curious to see his approach, though. It's heartening to hear how thoughtful he is being about it.

[Imraith Nimphais]

Thank you, Hypotherion.

Still...I'm going to wait and see wot transpires.

[JimRaynor55]

Still worried about this. In the past, Morrison has been open about how he doesn't "get" this character. He's obviously researching the original source material, which shows that he's making an effort to understand her. That's a good thing. But these parts concern me:


Superman when he began was, he could throw people out of windows, you used to see him drop kicking guys into the ocean, and obviously that would kill you. You know Batman had a gun and sometimes he would shoot people. But those things weren't intrinsic to the strips, you know, you could take out those elements, you could take out the murder element of Superman and Batman and the strips still worked. But when you took the sex out of Wonder Woman, the thing went flat. And the sales died immediately after Marston himself died and never ever recovered.

So it seemed that there was something about those libidinous elements that were actually fundamental to the concept of Wonder Woman, and trying to find a way to put those back without being William Moulton Marston and not being into what he was into, was quite a difficult thing. But yeah, I think I've found a way, but I'm not gonna tell you what I've done because hopefully the Wonder Woman series will be out next year sometime or thereabouts. But I think I've found a way to get all that back in again but it took a lot of reading. This has been the hardest project I've ever done. I had to read feminist theory all the way through, from Simone De Beauvoir to Andrea Dworkin and apply it to this character. And to try and do something that incorporated those ideas but completely took them in a different direction. So I mean beyond that I'll say, Wonder Woman needs sex definitely because you know, again as I said in the book, they kind of transformed her into a cross between the Virgin Mary and Mary Tyler Moore. This girl scout who had no sexuality at all and the character's never quite worked since then.

Morrison talks about the bondage and kinkiness of the Marston comics, and about how he researched "feminist theory" which was apparently a very difficult task for him. But has he looked at post-Marston Wonder Woman? It sounds like he doesn't even like the character without Marston's kinky sexuality. Now on one hand, there's nothing wrong with sex, and I definitely don't agree with the stiff, unrelatable prude that haters often strawman Wonder Woman into being. But I really hope this isn't Morrison being a neophyte to the character, and overly focusing on one weird aspect of her past.

It's not like Wonder Woman is the only character who's quite different from her original incarnation. As Morrison said himself, Superman used to be a killer and Batman used to pack a gun. And it's not like Superman's history is a perfect example of nuanced and skillful writing either. Superman very clearly changed into an inoffensive, impeccable "Boy Scout" character who many people regarded as "boring."

But Morrison gets Superman. When he wrote All-Star, he didn't shy from the Boy Scout characterization. He embraced it, and showed why a perfect goody two-shoes like Superman can be appealing and interesting. And while All-Star was heavily influenced by the Silver Age (which already shows Morrison looking past the original Golden Age comics), Morrison has also said in interviews that he drew upon Superman material throughout history. He didn't focus on the differences between eras, but the commonalities. The enduring concepts that never died.

Wonder Woman's original comics, the Lynda Carter series, the Perez reboot, the Justice League series, and the 2009 animated movie all share a few common ideas. A woman who grew up in an isolated society, but is compassionate enough to care about an outsider (and man!) who crashes on her island. An idealist who was trained and educated with all the care and attention that comes with being a princess (and only child) in her society, who desperately wants to go out into the world and put her abilities to use. The separatist Amazon society showing the rest of the world a better way to live, but also learning new things about itself as well.

One thing that I really admire about this character on a conceptual level is how she stands for open minded progress. Like Superman she tries to set an example for others. But despite his alien origin, Superman is an insider to modern (American) society. Wonder Woman shows that we can all learn something by looking outwards.

There's so much I see in this character, which isn't acknowledged by most people. Wonder Woman is a character who can really benefit from an "All-Star" treatment that distills all of these great concepts. And I hope Morrison sees this stuff too, instead of just the kinky sex.

[Rud]

Morrison talks about the bondage and kinkiness of the Marston comics, and about how he researched "feminist theory" which was apparently a very difficult task for him. But has he looked at post-Marston Wonder Woman? It sounds like he doesn't even like the character without Marston's kinky sexuality. What he means is that Wonder Woman's level of success went downhill as soon as Marston's kinky stuff disappeared and has yet to recover since (whether you agree with that or not is up to you). Got nothing to do with what he likes or not.

[Morlock50]

Still worried about this. In the past, Morrison has been open about how he doesn't "get" this character. He's obviously researching the original source material, which shows that he's making an effort to understand her. That's a good thing. But these parts concern me:



Morrison talks about the bondage and kinkiness of the Marston comics, and about how he researched "feminist theory" which was apparently a very difficult task for him. But has he looked at post-Marston Wonder Woman? It sounds like he doesn't even like the character without Marston's kinky sexuality. Now on one hand, there's nothing wrong with sex, and I definitely don't agree with the stiff, unrelatable prude that haters often strawman Wonder Woman into being. But I really hope this isn't Morrison being a neophyte to the character, and overly focusing on one weird aspect of her past.

It's not like Wonder Woman is the only character who's quite different from her original incarnation. As Morrison said himself, Superman used to be a killer and Batman used to pack a gun. And it's not like Superman's history is a perfect example of nuanced and skillful writing either. Superman very clearly changed into an inoffensive, impeccable "Boy Scout" character who many people regarded as "boring."

But Morrison gets Superman. When he wrote All-Star, he didn't shy from the Boy Scout characterization. He embraced it, and showed why a perfect goody two-shoes like Superman can be appealing and interesting. And while All-Star was heavily influenced by the Silver Age (which already shows Morrison looking past the original Golden Age comics), Morrison has also said in interviews that he drew upon Superman material throughout history. He didn't focus on the differences between eras, but the commonalities. The enduring concepts that never died.

Wonder Woman's original comics, the Lynda Carter series, the Perez reboot, the Justice League series, and the 2009 animated movie all share a few common ideas. A woman who grew up in an isolated society, but is compassionate enough to care about an outsider (and man!) who crashes on her island. An idealist who was trained and educated with all the care and attention that comes with being a princess (and only child) in her society, who desperately wants to go out into the world and put her abilities to use. The separatist Amazon society showing the rest of the world a better way to live, but also learning new things about itself as well.

One thing that I really admire about this character on a conceptual level is how she stands for open minded progress. Like Superman she tries to set an example for others. But despite his alien origin, Superman is an insider to modern (American) society. Wonder Woman shows that we can all learn something by looking outwards.

There's so much I see in this character, which isn't acknowledged by most people. Wonder Woman is a character who can really benefit from an "All-Star" treatment that distills all of these great concepts. And I hope Morrison sees this stuff too, instead of just the kinky sex.

Totally agree here. I think an All-Star treament could be just what the doctor ordered. As long as Diana is treated with respect.

[Hatut Zeraze]

I don't know about anybody else, but I really want whatever that secret Marston book is.

You and me both, brother.

[Augie Pires]

I'm definitely buying that book whenever it's released. I wish Mike Deodato was the artist (or Ivan Reis).

[Chiroptera]

Honestly, I've never liked a thing Morrison has written. Even All-Star Superman, which I thought was a nice premise, didn't stand up for me on a second reading.
I imagine whatever he creates will be adored by his legions of fans, and I'll probably give it a looksie to see if I like it, but I'm not anticipating it. Still, anything that gets Wondy publicity and readership is a good thing.

[Nigel_Halsey]

Dodson would be on top of my list.

[T Hedge Coke]

Dodson would be on top of my list.

If the Dodsons ever exhibited restraint in putting breasts first, maybe. Since they haven't, I'd prefer them elsewhere. (Not that it's my call, naturally.)

[americanwonder]

I'm really looking forward to this. Have to admit, I'm nervous. But, it does sound like Morrison has put a lot of work and thought into this, and I believe he really wants to do well for the character.

Anxiously awaiting. :smile:

[DarkKnghtJared]

Sounds cool to me. It'll be interesting to see if he incorporates and of Azzarello's stuff, namely the dad thing, since that's a pretty big deal. Unless its set in the past or something where she still doesn't know and it serves as kind a Secret (or not so secret since the universe is rebooted now anyway) Origin.

It's also semi-possible that it'll be in it's own universe, like All-Star Superman. Of course, being in the DCnU would be cool too--he's basically doing a new origin of Superman with a contemporary take on his Golden Age roots, it'd be really cool if he could do the same for Diana.


I'm definitely buying that book whenever it's released. I wish Mike Deodato was the artist (or Ivan Reis).

Deodato might be Marvel exclusive, but even if he wasn't, while he's definitely improved since his last run in the 90s, I don't think I'd quite like that. Reis would look gorgeous, but, again, he's doing too good of work on Aquaman.

Considering what I'm hearing, I would say that, if it weren't for the fact that he can't do a monthly to save his life, I'd almost say that a good choice would be Adam Hughes. Maybe he could do covers.


Still worried about this. In the past, Morrison has been open about how he doesn't "get" this character. He's obviously researching the original source material, which shows that he's making an effort to understand her. That's a good thing. But these parts concern me:



Morrison talks about the bondage and kinkiness of the Marston comics, and about how he researched "feminist theory" which was apparently a very difficult task for him. But has he looked at post-Marston Wonder Woman? It sounds like he doesn't even like the character without Marston's kinky sexuality. Now on one hand, there's nothing wrong with sex, and I definitely don't agree with the stiff, unrelatable prude that haters often strawman Wonder Woman into being. But I really hope this isn't Morrison being a neophyte to the character, and overly focusing on one weird aspect of her past.

It's not like Wonder Woman is the only character who's quite different from her original incarnation. As Morrison said himself, Superman used to be a killer and Batman used to pack a gun. And it's not like Superman's history is a perfect example of nuanced and skillful writing either. Superman very clearly changed into an inoffensive, impeccable "Boy Scout" character who many people regarded as "boring."

But Morrison gets Superman. When he wrote All-Star, he didn't shy from the Boy Scout characterization. He embraced it, and showed why a perfect goody two-shoes like Superman can be appealing and interesting. And while All-Star was heavily influenced by the Silver Age (which already shows Morrison looking past the original Golden Age comics), Morrison has also said in interviews that he drew upon Superman material throughout history. He didn't focus on the differences between eras, but the commonalities. The enduring concepts that never died.

Wonder Woman's original comics, the Lynda Carter series, the Perez reboot, the Justice League series, and the 2009 animated movie all share a few common ideas. A woman who grew up in an isolated society, but is compassionate enough to care about an outsider (and man!) who crashes on her island. An idealist who was trained and educated with all the care and attention that comes with being a princess (and only child) in her society, who desperately wants to go out into the world and put her abilities to use. The separatist Amazon society showing the rest of the world a better way to live, but also learning new things about itself as well.

One thing that I really admire about this character on a conceptual level is how she stands for open minded progress. Like Superman she tries to set an example for others. But despite his alien origin, Superman is an insider to modern (American) society. Wonder Woman shows that we can all learn something by looking outwards.

There's so much I see in this character, which isn't acknowledged by most people. Wonder Woman is a character who can really benefit from an "All-Star" treatment that distills all of these great concepts. And I hope Morrison sees this stuff too, instead of just the kinky sex.

What's interesting is, between the way he's written her in the past and what he's mentioning here, all the stuff you're saying about what you find interesting about the character (which is stuff I also love about the character, great post BTW), I think Morrison totally groks.

From what I'm reading, he's of the viewpoint that WW benefited when she had this mix of a unique political and sexual philosophy mixed in with mild cheesecake and allowing her to be a hot-blooded woman with a libido; so he's doing more reading of her past stuff and other feminist theory books to better figure his own thoughts (or WW's thoughts) on the subject, so he can do something that isn't a direct copy of Marston, and going to her "kinkier" roots in order to have her be more striking and appealing, and doing it in a way that isn't exploitative.

Obviously, it's a hell of a tall order, and it's no longer it's taken him so long to get to where they are now, but I can't wait to see the results. :biggrin:

[sethysquare]

Still worried about this. In the past, Morrison has been open about how he doesn't "get" this character. He's obviously researching the original source material, which shows that he's making an effort to understand her. That's a good thing. But these parts concern me:



Morrison talks about the bondage and kinkiness of the Marston comics, and about how he researched "feminist theory" which was apparently a very difficult task for him. But has he looked at post-Marston Wonder Woman? It sounds like he doesn't even like the character without Marston's kinky sexuality. Now on one hand, there's nothing wrong with sex, and I definitely don't agree with the stiff, unrelatable prude that haters often strawman Wonder Woman into being. But I really hope this isn't Morrison being a neophyte to the character, and overly focusing on one weird aspect of her past.

It's not like Wonder Woman is the only character who's quite different from her original incarnation. As Morrison said himself, Superman used to be a killer and Batman used to pack a gun. And it's not like Superman's history is a perfect example of nuanced and skillful writing either. Superman very clearly changed into an inoffensive, impeccable "Boy Scout" character who many people regarded as "boring."

But Morrison gets Superman. When he wrote All-Star, he didn't shy from the Boy Scout characterization. He embraced it, and showed why a perfect goody two-shoes like Superman can be appealing and interesting. And while All-Star was heavily influenced by the Silver Age (which already shows Morrison looking past the original Golden Age comics), Morrison has also said in interviews that he drew upon Superman material throughout history. He didn't focus on the differences between eras, but the commonalities. The enduring concepts that never died.

Wonder Woman's original comics, the Lynda Carter series, the Perez reboot, the Justice League series, and the 2009 animated movie all share a few common ideas. A woman who grew up in an isolated society, but is compassionate enough to care about an outsider (and man!) who crashes on her island. An idealist who was trained and educated with all the care and attention that comes with being a princess (and only child) in her society, who desperately wants to go out into the world and put her abilities to use. The separatist Amazon society showing the rest of the world a better way to live, but also learning new things about itself as well.

One thing that I really admire about this character on a conceptual level is how she stands for open minded progress. Like Superman she tries to set an example for others. But despite his alien origin, Superman is an insider to modern (American) society. Wonder Woman shows that we can all learn something by looking outwards.

There's so much I see in this character, which isn't acknowledged by most people. Wonder Woman is a character who can really benefit from an "All-Star" treatment that distills all of these great concepts. And I hope Morrison sees this stuff too, instead of just the kinky sex.

1 difference is that batman n superman sells after being changed from golden age. sadly ww didnt. so perhaps bringing ww back to her golden age and fit it into this era would be whats needed to revitalize the whole WW, maybe even spinning off more books for WW family

[superchick]

I don't know if sexuality is something I associate with Superman. He of course, has had many love interests over the years while WW was stuck in this virginal state though. I guess that Superman has a sexuality but isn't about sex and that could work with Wonder Woman. I would want Wonder Woman's sexuality to be relatable for women and not on show for men. Paradise Island could very easily become the 'I kissed a Girl' of comic books.

[toastedbread]

Hmmm.

Okay, I'm genuinely appreciative of the effort that Morrison is obviously putting into this and I think if anyone can pull together a bunch of odd sounding and disparate threads into a coherent, satisfying tale, it's probably him, so I stress that I will reserve judgement until the final product is seen.

That said, I agree with some others here. I'm not sure the Marston roots really are what she needs to get back to. I know Morrison is doing that with Superman in Action right now to much acclaim, but there are very specific economic reasons why that kind of story resonates in the same way it did in the 30s - something Morrison himself is aware of.

But this is about feminist theory and I don't think that we're in the same place we were either in the 40s or, well, in Marston's head. The man had a lot of interesting ideas, sure, and they were progressive in some ways simply because they showed a freethinking attitude that was willing to go against the common wisdom about gender roles of the day, but there's no denying that a lot of it was tied up (if you'll forgive the pun) in his views on sexual politics rather than simply gender politics.

Now, obviously the two are interlinked and I'm actually not against Wonder Woman having an element of sexuality to her. I do agree that on occasion this is removed from her when that is not necessary.

But I think that part of that removal may have more to do with social perception than actual character attributes.

If we look at the DC Trinity, Wonder Woman's iconic costume is fairly standard superhero fare, yes. But alone among the Big Three (and as a rarity among superheroes in general), she is depicted so often with armor and lethal weaponry that it's hard to argue that these don't form part of her iconography.

Also, to be blunt, she walks around half naked and is completely comfortable with that.

Her most famous weapon is something she uses to tie you up and then interrogate you.

Guys, there is a surplus of subtext here that brings a sense of power and dominance and skill to the character.

In any male character, this would not be separated from sexuality. I posit Batman as a good example of this. Yes, Bruce Wayne has a woman on his arm at all times, but I genuinely don't see that as the reason that Batman is considered a sexy or powerfully masculine character - that comes from his physical prowess and his inarguable skill. Bruce Wayne is like James Bond if he didn't need all those chicks, and somehow we don't find him less sexy because of that.

Sure, there's an aspect of that sexiness that is probably from the "dark, edgy" past and attitude, which is why Superman is considered less appealing these days than Batman. And I don't disagree that perhaps Wonder Woman suffers from some of the "boy/girl scout" goodie-two-shoes problem.

That said, Superman, while not an overtly sexualised character, is not a character I've ever seen actively described as asexual or virginal in the way that Wonder Woman often is.

Again I posit there are elements here of gender double standards and that if Wonder Woman were a man, her barbarian style of dress and physical prowess as well as her take-charge attitude would make her seem, well, virile.

The problem here isn't that the sex got taken out of Wonder Woman, it's that it's not sex appeal in a format we're used to recognising in women, and the fact that she's a goodie two-shoes means that it's easier to dismiss its existence and keep back to our comfort zones.

Going back towards bondage fetishes allows her to veer towards the Dominatrix end of the spectrum, which is a way we can recognise women displaying sexuality through physical dominance. It probably seems appealing because it also addresses the "girl scout" problem.

But it's a stereotype, and while it might be more challenging from the perspective of what readers are comfortable with in a mainstream comic, I'd argue it's actually less challenging from a perspective of breaking down gender stereotypes because it's a tried and true and easily recognisable one.

Again, I'd note I don't know what Morrison's going to do. I'm heartened by the fact he appears to have been reading feminist theory alongside Marston's Wonder Woman. I do think it's absolutely fine for a character as deeply steeped in Greek mythology as Wonder Woman to have a setting that's full of blood and sex.

I just think it's worth asking ourselves, is it that Wonder Woman doesn't have a sexuality, or that we manage to blind ourselves to it?

End of the day, I don't think I can support Morrison's assertion that Wonder Woman has become a cross between the Virgin & Tyler Moore Marys because I can't imagine either of them wandering around half naked wrestling monsters and beheading things.

What I think is a cross between the Virgin Mary and Mary Tyler Moore is public perception of her. How that happened, given it's not her in the comic book, I'm not sure, but probably has something to do with a combination of the TV show and the fact that it's more comfortable to prioritise her selfless, pacifist attributes than her martial ones, even though both have always been present.

But is the way to combat that to entrench so far in the opposite direction, we're just headed towards a different, potentially problematic stereotype?

[Silvermoth]

Wow, I'm suprised such a clever writer would sound so sleazy. Basically his plan for Wonder Woman is "she needs sex and I need to watch her". Bit creepy.

Also, he said the sales have never been good for the series since Marston left but they've had their ups and downs. Wonder Woman is selling very well atm. I haven't been able to find an issue in months.

[blackphoenix]

The photo of Grant in that article is priceless.:biggrin:

I wish they'd just let him take over the regular Wonder Woman book! This sounds to be infinitely more interesting than the Zeus-baby-daddy-drama going on in the book right now. I cannot wait to see this.

[Imraith Nimphais]

I am always amazed at how we can all read the same article/interview (and comic books) yet come to such differing conclusions and points of views. WOW.

Great post as well, Toastedbread.

[thisguy84]

I am amazed at DC's apparent, neverending quest to make being a Wonder Woman fan an Endurance Test.


It hurts my skull.

[Hypestyle]

hopefully the series has lots of action and isn't too ponderous..

[Doug_Brunell]

This book could be great, and I, too, want that book in the vault ... if it is real.

[Amacent]

Interesting... I'm not following his work on Action Comics but I will definitely be reading his run on Wonder Woman whenever it starts. I hope he has some great things in store for us!

[NotSuper]

But despite his alien origin, Superman is an insider to modern (American) society. Wonder Woman shows that we can all learn something by looking outwards.
But Superman as originally created wasn't an insider. That was kind of the point--he adapted, but also strove to improve conditions for working people. The meaning of those early Superman comics wasn't "I'm an American now and that's all that matters," it was "I grew up here but always knew I was different and never fit in, but a lot of these people are good and I want to help them." He was out to change the world and reverse the status quo, not to preserve it. He was a metaphor for the Jewish kid or the non-white kid growing up and knowing that society wasn't structured to be as inclusive to him (especially back then)--yet still wanting to improve the lives of others who were oppressed.


There's so much I see in this character, which isn't acknowledged by most people. Wonder Woman is a character who can really benefit from an "All-Star" treatment that distills all of these great concepts. And I hope Morrison sees this stuff too, instead of just the kinky sex.
I think of the problems is that people immediately assume a kinky sex element associated with Wonder Woman is something to be ashamed of or not focus on. Why not focus on it? It wasn't just a small part of the character. The real reason is that we're conditioned to feel insecure about sex, particularly when it's non-mainstream.

I'm glad that Grant isn't afraid to examine the roots of characters (and that he does it in such a way as to not break or mock them).

[NotSuper]

Wow, I'm suprised such a clever writer would sound so sleazy. Basically his plan for Wonder Woman is "she needs sex and I need to watch her". Bit creepy.
That's a horrible strawman argument. If you only got that from what he said, I don't think I'll be reading your posts anymore.

Did you not even read the part about him researching Beauvoir and others? Sigh. Forget it.

[Mayowa]

So it's really gonna happen, huh? And in 2012, no less. I wonder if Morrison's still slated to work with Ethan Van Sciver on art. I think I heard something about that back in the day. Van Sciver's a fine artist and all, but I feel an undertaking like this demands a more off-beat artist. Someone who can in some way channel the quirkiness and flair of Harry Peter's style. Or J.H. Williams, since he's like the Batman of artists (though he seems more horror-oriented).

In any case, if his "Silver Age" and "Golden Age" takes on Superman are anything to go by, it appears his Golden Age take on Wonder Woman won't really be Golden Age material at all, but a thoroughly modern work with GA elements thrown in. Which...also works for me. Whatever the case, the more I hear of this, the more I'm liking it!

[dshipp17]

I'm really anxious to see what Morrison has in minds as it relates to Marston style themes. It's been far too long since we last saw this, which ended somewhere in 1949. :wink:

[Free-Man]

So it's really gonna happen, huh? And in 2012, no less. I wonder if Morrison's still slated to work with Ethan Van Sciver on art. I think I heard something about that back in the day. Van Sciver's a fine artist and all, but I feel an undertaking like this demands a more off-beat artist. Someone who can in some way channel the quirkiness and flair of Harry Peter's style. Or J.H. Williams, since he's like the Batman of artists (though he seems more horror-oriented).

In any case, if his "Silver Age" and "Golden Age" takes on Superman are anything to go by, it appears his Golden Age take on Wonder Woman won't really be Golden Age material at all, but a thoroughly modern work with GA elements thrown in. Which...also works for me. Whatever the case, the more I hear of this, the more I'm liking it!

Willims is still writing Batwoman, so unless this is LATE 2012, I doubt he'll be doing it.

[DarkKnghtJared]

So it's really gonna happen, huh? And in 2012, no less. I wonder if Morrison's still slated to work with Ethan Van Sciver on art. I think I heard something about that back in the day. Van Sciver's a fine artist and all, but I feel an undertaking like this demands a more off-beat artist. Someone who can in some way channel the quirkiness and flair of Harry Peter's style. Or J.H. Williams, since he's like the Batman of artists (though he seems more horror-oriented).

In any case, if his "Silver Age" and "Golden Age" takes on Superman are anything to go by, it appears his Golden Age take on Wonder Woman won't really be Golden Age material at all, but a thoroughly modern work with GA elements thrown in. Which...also works for me. Whatever the case, the more I hear of this, the more I'm liking it!

I think Van Sciver's doing a project with Gail Simone right now. I think I remember reading at some point a rumor that Phil Jimenez was attached--which makes since since he had a major run on the book and he's worked with Morrison on The Invisibles.

[PsychoGoatee]

I'm not a Grant fan in general, but I do like the sound of what he's going for here. At the very least, Wonder Woman should be allowed a bit of sexuality, being able to have longterm romantic relationships like Superman, as he mentions.

That said, with Grant all kinds of weirdness could come of this, good or bad. But I'm interested.

[Sacred Knight]

There's an upcoming issue of Action Comics which is said to feature the Justice League, so we'll probably get our first taste on his take for Diana then.

[Mayowa]

Willims is still writing Batwoman, so unless this is LATE 2012, I doubt he'll be doing it.

Well, I was just musing about the kind of artist I would like to see draw for a project like this, and singled out J.H. Williams because...he's the Batman of comic book artists. It wasn't anything in the way of speculation. If only.


I think Van Sciver's doing a project with Gail Simone right now. I think I remember reading at some point a rumor that Phil Jimenez was attached--which makes since since he had a major run on the book and he's worked with Morrison on The Invisibles.

I think I read something about Jimenez (who also worked with Morrison on X-Men) having seen some of the work, so I don't know that he'd be doing the art.

This is all so very mysterious. I like it!