Just picked up the Robert E Howard Conan Collection...

[DrDoomX]

Its been awesome. I was curious about the original Conan stories and Its awesome...I only have the first volume of 3, will go pick up volume 2, I wonder when 3 comes out...

Anyhow I read three stories so far, The Phoenix on the Sword, The Frost Giants Daughter, and the God in the bowl. Howard was good and I cannot wait to get the second volume. Whats fantastic is that this book not only has the stories but a great bunch of dvd like features like Howards original draft of The Phoenix on the sword, and a essay he wrote about the Hyborian age. Also a great look at how he came up with the stories in this volume and the Conan character.

The full title name is The Coming Of Conan the Cimmerian, and such...

Anyone else read this? Your thoughts?

Also interesting is the fact that some people in the 70s butchered Howards stories....I am sure most of you knew that but its quite interesting history the stories have.

[Slam_Bradley]

I haven't managed to pick up either of these, yet, though they are definitely on my to-buy list. I've read most of the Conan stories in their original form here and there over the years, but I really do want to get them in one place. There is no doubt that they are infinitely superior to the adulterated versions most of us read in the paperbacks over the years.

The same company has a Solomon Kane collection out, as well. You should look in to it. The dour Puritan may be my favorite of Howard's continuing characters. I'm hopeful that we'll see Bran Mak Morn, Cormac Mac Art and Howard's non-series tales get the same treatment.

[Deathstroke]

I don't have the book but it does sound interesting. I'll have to add it to my book list.

[Michael P]

Picked up this one over the summer, and the second one ("The Bloody Crown of Conan" in November. It's some damn good stuff; made me a fan in one reading.

I did also like the extras in the back, particularly the publication history and Howard's detailed essay on the Hyborean Age.

The third one will complete the series, and, of the pub. dates of the first two are any indication, won't be out until the end of the year. Nevertheless, kudos to Del Rey for providing the definitive editions of Howard's most enduring work.

[Roquefort Raider]

I read the book last year and am glad that these classic fantasy stories are available again. I'm also kind of happy that Howard's prose has been restored to its original form, because I don't see why any author's work should be edited by another without the former's consent.

That being said, I do not understand the sometimes heated (to use a polite term) comments made on some Conan message boards about L. Sprague de Camp's editing being a "desecration". At worst, I'd call it unnecessary. In fact, having read both the Sprague de Camp's edited stories and the Howard originals, the only time I was ever aware of a difference is in "The scarlet citadel", in which Howard calls Aquilonia's capital Tamar and de Camp corrects it to Tarantia. (It was Tarantia in other Howard stories).

As far as I'm concerned, de Camp retouching of the originals, as well as his pastiches, are less of a desecration than most Conan stories published by TOR. And de Camp should be commended for being the one who kept Howard's work from obscurity.

[JeffreyWKramer]

As far as I'm concerned, de Camp retouching of the originals, as well as his pastiches, are less of a desecration than most Conan stories published by TOR. And de Camp should be commended for being the one who kept Howard's work from obscurity.

I agree 100%. While I applaud the return of Howard's original prose (and think Tamar should stay gone since that was just a goof, and rightly edited) de Camp was extremely respectful of the original stories and of Howard's legacy.

If fans want to rag on someone, Derleth's warping of the Cthulhu Mythos into a weird mishmash of elemental beings and conflict between mystic forces of good and evil is a perfectly good target - almost everything Derleth added is about 180 degrees from Lovecraft's intent, after all. Even there, though, Derleth left alone the stories Lovecraft had completed during his lifetime, so folk have no business dissing Derleth for messing with the tales themselves - the greater setting/Mythos, yes, the tales no.

One is also unfair if they attempt to dis either de Camp or Derleth while not also crediting each with helping preserve and promote the works of great writers who would otherwise likely have fallen into obscurity.

[DrDoomX]

So far I am enjoying it, and I just finished the Scarlet Citadel. I love how the stories though coming out in a random order still follows old events, such as in the Scarlet Citadel it mentions the events of "The Phoenix on the Sword" And such. I am about to beging the Queen of the Black Coast which may say is one of the best Conan stories...What to you are the best Conan Stories? And what about these Decamp and such editions are they still printed. And thanks for the reccomendation on the Solomon book.

[sheets]

I'm hopeful that we'll see Bran Mak Morn

Bran Mak Morn is coming up next year, I believe. And the rumor is that King Kull will be next after that...

As far as I'm concerned, de Camp retouching of the originals, as well as his pastiches, are less of a desecration than most Conan stories published by TOR. And de Camp should be commended for being the one who kept Howard's work from obscurity.

De Camp does deserve credit for keeping Conan in print for a time, and if the only thing he had done was edit the original stories, he might have been forgiven for that. The problem is that De Camp went on to transform some of Howard's non-Conan stories into Conan stories when it didn't make sense - if Howard had intended those to be about Conan he would have done so. El Borak is not the same guy as Conan (a lot of De Camp's own writing of Conan also indicates that he fundamentally didn't understand the character). Worst of all, after a while De Camp even began playing down Howard's own importance to the character as De Camp started building Conan as a brand name that had little to do with the guy who created the whole thing in the first place. He wrote a scathing and largely inaccurate biography of Howard, making Howard sound like some Oedipal nutjob who stupidly blundered his way through his writing career before shooting himself.

It all indicates a guy who may have started out with good intentions but due to greed gradually began trying to diminish the actual creator in order to make himself sound more integral to the character's success. That is not cool.

What to you are the best Conan Stories?

My favorites are: The Hour of the Dragon, People of the Black Circle, Red Nails, Queen of the Black Coast, Tower of the Elephant, Rogues in the House, Black Colossus, The Devil in Iron. I'm sure I'm forgetting some. But it's all good, except for The Vale of Lost Women. That story totally sucks :)

[Toonimator]

My favorites are: The Hour of the Dragon, People of the Black Circle, Red Nails, Queen of the Black Coast, Tower of the Elephant, Rogues in the House, Black Colossus, The Devil in Iron. I'm sure I'm forgetting some. But it's all good, except for The Vale of Lost Women. That story totally sucks :)
HA! That's the one story I couldn't get into from Volume 1. Barely skimmed it.

I'm interested in checking out Bran Mak Morn and King Kull, too... and I'm planning to pick up the Solomon Kane book as well. The preview on Amazon was a great read, just like Conan.

[Perry Holley]

As an aside, today would have been Howard's 99th birthday, were he still alive today.

---

Lines Written In The Realization That I Must Die

The Black Door gapes and the Black Wall rises;
Twilight gasps in the grip of Night.
Paper and dust are the gems man prizes --
Torches toss in my waning sight.

Drums of glory are lost in the ages,
Bare feet fail on a broken trail --
Let my name fade from the printed pages;
Dreams and visions are growing pale.

Twilight gathers and none can save me.
Well and well, for I would not stay.
Let me speak through the stone you gave me:
He never could say what he wished to say.

Why should I shrink from the sign of leaving?
My brain is wrapped in a darkened cloud;
Now in the Night are the Sisters weaving
For me a shroud.

Towers shake and the stars reel under,
Skulls are heaped in the Devil's fane;
My feet are wrapped in a rolling thunder,
Jets of agony lance my brain.

What of the world that I leave for ever?
Phantom forms in a fading sight --
Carry me out on the ebon river
Into the Night.

---

Think I'll break out one of my volumes of Howard and do some reading later today.

[Slappy san]

I don't have the book but it does sound interesting. I'll have to add it to my book list.

Same here.

[mgs]

i think i may like to add it too, based on all your positive reactions to it, but, given that i've never heard of or seen it before, how much is it? and how big is the collection? is it many books or one big one?

thanks. :)


edit: oops! sorry, re-read the first post. but how much are they?

[Michael P]

$15 American.

[The Conquering Hero]

Used to love Howards stuff. Can't read it anymore without noticing the racist bias. I still like his Bran Mak Morn, though, his only non-white character. Especially "the black stone." I even bought the comic based on that story. Pretty cool, I must say.

I wish modern writers would continue stories of Bran Mak Morn. Perhaps an anthology. He is Howard's most interesting character.

[sheets]

Used to love Howards stuff. Can't read it anymore without noticing the racist bias. I still like his Bran Mak Morn, though, his only non-white character. Especially "the black stone." I even bought the comic based on that story. Pretty cool, I must say.

I wish modern writers would continue stories of Bran Mak Morn. Perhaps an anthology. He is Howard's most interesting character.

Karl Edward Wagner wrote a Bran Mak Morn novel that's supposed to be the best Howard pastiche ever done. I believe it's called Legion of the Shadows. Not in print anymore but you can probably find it fairly cheap online.

[Slam_Bradley]

Used to love Howards stuff. Can't read it anymore without noticing the racist bias. I still like his Bran Mak Morn, though, his only non-white character. Especially "the black stone." I even bought the comic based on that story. Pretty cool, I must say.

I wish modern writers would continue stories of Bran Mak Morn. Perhaps an anthology. He is Howard's most interesting character.

I was hopeful that a Bran Mak Morn edition would be coming. Ask and ye shall receive.

Bran Mak Morn (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345461541/qid=1109178913/sr=2-5/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_5/104-4904599-7059116)

[The Conquering Hero]

Karl Edward Wagner wrote a Bran Mak Morn novel that's supposed to be the best Howard pastiche ever done. I believe it's called Legion of the Shadows. Not in print anymore but you can probably find it fairly cheap online.


Would you believe, you just made my day. How fitting that it be written by Wagner, truly a master of Dark Fantasy. I will be looking for that title. Thank you.

[Brannon]

I have all three Del Ray paperbacks and they are all wonderful. (That is the first two Conan's and Solomon Kane)

Howard is just about as good as it get's when it comes to fantasy adventure.

[Ryan K]

Anybody know when the third volume comes out or what it's titled?

[Michael P]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0345461533/qid=1131115151/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/103-7302163-7978269?v=glance&s=books

[Ryan K]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0345461533/qid=1131115151/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/103-7302163-7978269?v=glance&s=books

Thank you kind sir!

Just in time for Christmas.

[CaptMagellan]

My first introduction to prose REH and Conan was through the Ace/Lancer Carter, de Camp series of books (like so many others I'm sure) so I'll always have a soft spot for those editions, including the edited stories and the pastiches.

But, although I'm not an anti-de Camp zealot I do see why some people have a problem. In much of de Camp's letters, commentary, and essays regarding Howard it comes off that he really didn't 'get' Conan, was a bit mystified as to why Howard (who he thought was a good storyteller but a poor writer) had such a following, and felt that any old story told in the same 'Howardian' formula would sell just as well.

I think that that attitude contributed to the over the top elements in some of the de Camp pastiches. Especially the ones that came later such as in 'Conan the Swordsman,' and 'Conan the Liberator' (that last one which was just horrible). That 'over the top' quality is what (to the Howard purists) contributed to the physically unrealistic portrayal of Conan (which admittedly, Howard was taking pretty far himself) and the really piss poor dialogue.

This, to me at least, is especially apparent when you read all of the Howard stories unedited and then dive into a few of the de Camp ones.

But yes, he kept it in print and made it available to a little captmagellan and for that I'll always be grateful. Also, he was supposedly a gentleman and many writers who knew him only had wonderful things to say about him.

But, in response to the horrible TOR pastiches... who do you think it was that was in charge of Conan Properties during those years? Who was it who allowed them to be written to make as much money as possible? L. Sprague de Camp. His one continuous 'paycheck' came from Conan. And up until his death, he was the leading hand behind all things Conan - most of them really horrible.

[CaptMagellan]

If fans want to rag on someone, Derleth's warping of the Cthulhu Mythos into a weird mishmash of elemental beings and conflict between mystic forces of good and evil is a perfectly good target - almost everything Derleth added is about 180 degrees from Lovecraft's intent, after all. Even there, though, Derleth left alone the stories Lovecraft had completed during his lifetime, so folk have no business dissing Derleth for messing with the tales themselves - the greater setting/Mythos, yes, the tales no.

One is also unfair if they attempt to dis either de Camp or Derleth while not also crediting each with helping preserve and promote the works of great writers who would otherwise likely have fallen into obscurity.

True. I have a bit more forgiveness for Derleth in that his 'crime' seemed to be just a substandard writer who saw the world so differently from Lovecraft that he really just missed the point. But, from what I've read, Derleth really idolized Lovecraft and worked very hard to spread his writings.

Some of the things I've read about de Camp (especially some of the articles that have come out of the REHUPA) paint him in a light that really didn't think that much of Howard, his philosophy, or sometime even his prose. Not that he thought they sucked or anything, just that he looked down on REH and that slight derision showed in some of his decisions regarding the property of Conan. This tendency was probably most evident in his choice of 'editing' non-Conan stories to fit into 'his' Conan saga and his statements that (paraphrasing) 'all Howard's heroes and stories were essentially the same.'

[Roquefort Raider]

(...) This tendency was probably most evident in his choice of 'editing' non-Conan stories to fit into 'his' Conan saga and his statements that (paraphrasing) 'all Howard's heroes and stories were essentially the same.'

Although they were often cut from the same cloth, I think it was indeed a great disservice to Howard's characters to use them as roughs for "new" Conan stories. If Howard had wanted these tales to be Conan stories, he would have written them as such.

I see your point as Conan representing a regular paycheck... Although I am grateful to de Camp for keeping Howard's work from falling into obscurity, I do wish he had refrained from any rewriting. It's just disrespectful.

[CaptMagellan]

I'd actually like to see a collection of de Camp, Carter and Bjorn Nyborg's(sp?) pastiche's re-released after the original Howard releases are complete.

My only problem with their presence before was that a lot of people didn't realize where Howard ended and the pastiches began.

I think a nice respectful collection discussing what de Camp and Carter did to preserve Howard's writings (without whitewashing their shortcomings) and collecting their stories would be a nice way to honor them that even most Howard Purists (the fundamentalist Jihadists of holy Howard will never give way but I'd like to think that they are in the minority) would agree with.

[sheets]

I'd actually like to see a collection of de Camp, Carter and Bjorn Nyborg's(sp?) pastiche's re-released after the original Howard releases are complete.

I think they already did one. It was called something like Sagas of Conan, and came out around the same time as the first Del Rey Conan volume.

[CaptMagellan]

I think they already did one. It was called something like Sagas of Conan, and came out around the same time as the first Del Rey Conan volume.

You're right, that is a reprint of some of their stuff (unfortunately some of their worst stuff). I always liked their short stories better than their full length Conan novels (albeit 'Conan the Swordsman' was a collection of short stories despite what the back cover of 'Sagas of Conan' says).

But it's still cool that they put some of their stuff back in print.