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View Full Version : What's wrong with Cap's wings?



SomeBodyAtCBR
09-05-2011, 02:22 PM
There's one thing that really bothers me about other non-616 variants of Captain America...the lack of mask wings! I can understand that maybe you wouldn't want to use purple as a base for a character and people getting turned off by that (Hawkeye), but why does Ult. Cap and the move Cap (although painted on) forgo the mask wings?

I think they're one of the most distinctive parts of Captain America, and I think he looks extremely awkward without them. Am I the only one who feels this way?

Telos
09-05-2011, 02:37 PM
No you're not, I totally agree with you and I don't like the costume Cap will be wearing in the Avengers movie. It doesn't really look like either his 616 or his Ultimate outfit, it just looks... bleh.

SomeBodyAtCBR
09-05-2011, 02:38 PM
I think his helmet looks too bulky, personally. I wish they would have modernized that as well. Made it thinner and added the wings.

Ben D
09-05-2011, 02:46 PM
The wings are brilliant.

tommyman
09-05-2011, 02:53 PM
Personally, I like the wings.
But we have to ask why there are there.
What purpose do they serve, or symbolism do they have?

Look at the rest of the costume and everything else in the original design is either functional or symbolic.
The boots, gloves, mail, shield and mask offer protection and anonymity (well, only the mask gives anonymity). Function.
The colours (red white and blue), stars and stripes represent the flag, the A represents America. Symbolism.
The tights, trunks etc. were for speed and mobility (in comic book superhero logic, at least). Function (sort of).

So what purpose could the wings serve?
I got nothing. Antennae for a radio-phone built into the cowl?

What could the wings symbolize?
Ummm... a tiny albino eagle?
Speed of Mercury?
The freedom implicit in the American dream?
I don't know.

So reluctantly I have to concede that of all the elements in his costume they are "weakest".
But I still like and want them.

And no pouches, canteen or surplus straps, piping or other recently added extras, demmit!

West
09-05-2011, 02:55 PM
And no pouches, canteen or surplus straps, piping or other recently added extras, demmit!

You trippin, the extra stuff is tight son. And besides it's for realism's sake

Chaos_Alfa
09-05-2011, 02:56 PM
The wings look weird.

Ben D
09-05-2011, 02:59 PM
The wings look weird.

Name me one thing in comics that doesn't look weird in one way or another.

XPac
09-05-2011, 03:06 PM
Perhaps there was a heated discussion over whether Thor or Cap were allowed to have wings on their head. And in the end, the fairest thing to do was simply allow neither one to get a winged head.

tommyman
09-05-2011, 03:12 PM
Perhaps there was a heated discussion over whether Thor or Cap were allowed to have wings on their head. And in the end, the fairest thing to do was simply allow neither one to get a winged head.

Nooooooooooo*breathes in*ooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Everyone should have wings on their head.
And their ankles.
And possibly their belt and forearms.

Ben D
09-05-2011, 03:13 PM
Thor makes more sense then Cap when it comes to the wings.

MajorHoy
09-05-2011, 05:30 PM
Thor makes more sense then Cap when it comes to the wings.

But it won't make any sense if they start refering to Cap as "Winghead" like they use to do in the comics! :eek:
(Too bad we can't add wings to the smiley heads.)

Jabare
09-05-2011, 10:14 PM
the wings always seemed off I'm glad they are gone

StoneGold
09-05-2011, 10:26 PM
But it won't make any sense if they start refering to Cap as "Winghead" like they use to do in the comics! :eek:
(Too bad we can't add wings to the smiley heads.)

You mean other than the wings painted on the sides of the head?


With the movie stuff, it's pretty simple, with both Cap and Thor -- flaps on the side of the head are kind of distracting when someone turns their head.

Ben D
09-05-2011, 10:33 PM
You mean other than the wings painted on the sides of the head?


With the movie stuff, it's pretty simple, with both Cap and Thor -- flaps on the side of the head are kind of distracting when someone turns their head.

The wings on the side of the head just look silly imho and just comes out of nowhere for the movie costume.

Thor's wings aren't that distracting as they're tiny on a big guy's head and are so high on the helmet that Thor probably doesn't even see it.

StoneGold
09-05-2011, 10:38 PM
The wings on the side of the head just look silly imho and just comes out of nowhere for the movie costume.

Thor's wings aren't that distracting as they're tiny on a big guy's head and are so high on the helmet that Thor probably doesn't even see it.

Guh? He has big-ass eagle wings strapped to the side of his head.

Ben D
09-05-2011, 10:42 PM
Guh? He has big-ass eagle wings strapped to the side of his head.

Thor's wings can be made small and not noticable.

StoneGold
09-05-2011, 10:56 PM
Thor's wings can be made small and not noticable.

I think you may be mixing up Cap and Thor. Cap's wings are little. Thor's are big.

strathcona
09-06-2011, 12:54 PM
I would say they were removed (in certain comics, not the movie) due to the creators being embarrassed by comic book conventions.

It seems like there is a certain contingent of creators working in comics today that would prefer to make everything in super hero comics as realistic as possible. Doing that removes so much of the wonder and grandeur from comics.

StoneGold
09-06-2011, 01:09 PM
I would say they were removed (in certain comics, not the movie) due to the creators being embarrassed by comic book conventions.

It seems like there is a certain contingent of creators working in comics today that would prefer to make everything in super hero comics as realistic as possible. Doing that removes so much of the wonder and grandeur from comics.

Same like how removing slavery removes so much of the wonder and grandeur from our Southern states.


OK, obviously I'm BSing, but do you really want to go back to where Bruce and Dick were sleeping together in the same bed?Ya want the Spider-Buggy back? Do ya?

ShaunN
09-06-2011, 03:10 PM
I think that the wings look really silly. They might work in a comic, but they certainly look ludicrous in real life. The only thing I like about the Ultimate Comics Cap is his costume - it really does look like a viable soldier's outfit. Anyway, in my view, absolute "no" to the wings.

XPac
09-06-2011, 03:18 PM
I would say they were removed (in certain comics, not the movie) due to the creators being embarrassed by comic book conventions.

It seems like there is a certain contingent of creators working in comics today that would prefer to make everything in super hero comics as realistic as possible. Doing that removes so much of the wonder and grandeur from comics.

The wings are still there in the comic.

They are simply making some tweaks in the costume, which isn't all that uncommon when something shifts to a different medium.

This sort of thing is normal. I don't think something needs to be an exact replica (visually or in terms of story) when a book or comic becomes a TV show or movie, or vice versa. You often can and frankly should make some small (and in some instances not so small) adjustments when making that transition.

And there are times suck tweaks are actually an improvement. I recall watching the JL Unlimited Cartoon and wishing the comics would blatently copy everything I was seeing. Sometimes change is good.

SomeBodyAtCBR
09-06-2011, 03:30 PM
I think the major thing about the wings are that it takes the contours of his head from looking mighty generic to unique. From the side, you aren't sure if he's Captain America or some generic superhero. With all the headshots they do in the Ultimates covers, it really looks out of place to me.

StoneGold
09-06-2011, 03:49 PM
I think the major thing about the wings are that it takes the contours of his head from looking mighty generic to unique. From the side, you aren't sure if he's Captain America or some generic superhero. With all the headshots they do in the Ultimates covers, it really looks out of place to me.

Or he's the Flash.


I think a lot of what it comes down to, you look at a lot of earlier interpretations of Cap and it's hard to tell what the wings are made out of, what direction they're pointing in, how they're attached to his head. But you get around to your more hyper-detailed artists -- and let's be honest here, this all started with Maguire and Adventures of Captain America -- the wings have to take some sort of more realistic shape so it fits in with the rest of the artwork.

Really, I have no idea how the more feathery wings would attach to a mask in real life. When they showed those early design shots of the movie costume, before they painted the wings on, I was thinking they could incorporate them as clasps for the chin strap on the mask, using the bolted-on metal look that Maguire used in Adventures. That would have given more of a 3D look, but to be honest, using the wings as the emblem for Project: Rebirth, and later for the Howling Commandos (although I just played the video game, apparently they were the Invaders?) and having them painted on the sides of the helmet mask like a football helmet made a lot more sense story-wise.

SomeBodyAtCBR
09-06-2011, 03:59 PM
I always liked when they made them pendants, like with BuckyCap.

StoneGold
09-06-2011, 04:08 PM
I always liked when they made them pendants, like with BuckyCap.

I think you have the wrong term. Pendants are loose-hanging jewelry.

Wait, do you mean pennants? Like sports flags?

strathcona
09-07-2011, 06:39 AM
Same like how removing slavery removes so much of the wonder and grandeur from our Southern states.

OK, obviously I'm BSing, but do you really want to go back to where Bruce and Dick were sleeping together in the same bed?Ya want the Spider-Buggy back? Do ya?


The wings are still there in the comic.

They are simply making some tweaks in the costume, which isn't all that uncommon when something shifts to a different medium.

This sort of thing is normal. I don't think something needs to be an exact replica (visually or in terms of story) when a book or comic becomes a TV show or movie, or vice versa. You often can and frankly should make some small (and in some instances not so small) adjustments when making that transition.

And there are times suck tweaks are actually an improvement. I recall watching the JL Unlimited Cartoon and wishing the comics would blatently copy everything I was seeing. Sometimes change is good.

I don't mind the change in the movie.. and agree it looks good there. The wings are something that wouldn't work in real life, so they would look dumb in the movie.

What I am talking about is changing it in the comics themselves. Yes, I know he still has the wings, but there are many comics that now show them as painted on to his helmet back in WWII. That is where my complaint comes from. I think that the creators think that making Cap look more realistic is less embarrassing for them, so that is why we are seeing it. Realism doesn't belong everywhere in superhero comics. And this is one place I don't think it works.

West
09-07-2011, 06:55 AM
And realism in comic books if it's done right is wrong how?

Beast
09-07-2011, 08:27 AM
I think Red Skull from the Super Hero Squad Show covers it pretty well...

Captain America: "Red Skull? I can't believe somebody found you and thawed you out."

Red Skull: "And I can't believe you're still wearing that ridiculous suit, with the little wings that go flippity, flippity, flippity."

Deus ex Chris
09-07-2011, 08:29 AM
I don't mind the change in the movie.. and agree it looks good there. The wings are something that wouldn't work in real life, so they would look dumb in the movie.

What I am talking about is changing it in the comics themselves. Yes, I know he still has the wings, but there are many comics that now show them as painted on to his helmet back in WWII. That is where my complaint comes from. I think that the creators think that making Cap look more realistic is less embarrassing for them, so that is why we are seeing it. Realism doesn't belong everywhere in superhero comics. And this is one place I don't think it works.
It's not always about realism. Some people just prefer cleaner lines and simpler aesthetics. Comic book costumes can often look really tacky or goofy, and that doesn't translate to fun or grand to everyone.

StoneGold
09-07-2011, 10:09 AM
What I am talking about is changing it in the comics themselves. Yes, I know he still has the wings, but there are many comics that now show them as painted on to his helmet back in WWII. That is where my complaint comes from. I think that the creators think that making Cap look more realistic is less embarrassing for them, so that is why we are seeing it. Realism doesn't belong everywhere in superhero comics. And this is one place I don't think it works.

Any reason why you think that? Interview from somewhere? Because I haven't read anything, anywhere, resembling that. At this point, I can only assume you're transposing your own secret thoughts onto others.

strathcona
09-07-2011, 12:48 PM
Any reason why you think that? Interview from somewhere? Because I haven't read anything, anywhere, resembling that. At this point, I can only assume you're transposing your own secret thoughts onto others.

Maybe. It's just a feeling I get from a lot of current creators that are always trying to realisticize (yes, it's a word) superhero comics. It seems to me that they are embarrassed that people might think they are working on kiddie books, so they make them more real and gritty so that when asked they can say, "Comics aren't just for kids anymore!"

Of course, we all know they were never just for kids...

StoneGold
09-07-2011, 01:39 PM
Maybe. It's just a feeling I get from a lot of current creators that are always trying to realisticize (yes, it's a word) superhero comics. It seems to me that they are embarrassed that people might think they are working on kiddie books, so they make them more real and gritty so that when asked they can say, "Comics aren't just for kids anymore!"


So... like Stan Lee did when he took away the secret IDs and costumes for the Fantastic Four, put them in an actual city instead of a fictional one, made them perpetually grumpy with each other instead of all lovey dovey, and so forth?