Iron Man 03 to be 3 months late

[Jimmy_Helter]

I'm repasting this from www.thegreatcurve.net (File this under the many things I don't understand according to antistar...)

Could Warren Ellis or Adi Granov please explain this if possible?

"SHIPPING CHANGES AS OF 01.14.05
According to Diamond, the following products had have adjustments to their shipping schedule. The first date listeds is the original in-sotre date, the second, the revised date.

Iron Man #3 01/26/05 - 04/13/05"

Didn't Granov have a six month head start on this series? Why would he need an additional three months in the middle of his run to have one issue ship?

Look, why not just have all six of Granov's issues done before solicitation? Why not? Was there a big hurry to get them out on the stands before hand? I mean, there was no type of crossover story with the relaunch, so...?


Wow, a 3 month delay between a slow, boring arc - Better get the dog ready again. :)

[Giant Guy]

I had heard they were thinking of taking this to a 6 week schedule but 3 months??? Marvel just can't get their acts together when it comes to deadlines. Pretty pathetic.

[Captain Blitz]

I have every title that´s been delayed on my pull list...so, Marvel saves me some money, THX! :D

All jokes aside...IS MARVEL GOING INSANE??? 3 month delay? Jesus, kick Granov´s butt and get an artist that meets his deadlines. :rolleyes:

[Vegetarian Goat]

That's bullspunk. I really dig Granov's art, but waiting three EXTRA months on a bi-monthly shipping schedule? It's not worth it.

[cesium salami]

Hey, with this long of a delay, Marvel could maybe reboot the series! In the mighty Marvel way, it would be an exciting new number one for a new quarter of a year!

[Jimmy_Helter]

Hey, with this long of a delay, Marvel could maybe reboot the series!

LOL - You are so right - why wait until you have a new creative team to relaunch a book? Just start every three issues with a new number one!

[EZMOHR]

Some one fire Quesada now. He might go down as one of the worst editors ever. I mean, I am sick of this crud. I like to read comics, and I know doing art is time consuming and hard, but when I see that Grandnov is curing cancer, then I might let these delays at Marvel slide.

[Jessica Drew]

So, if Granov continues with this schedule, we should expect #4 somewhere between Halloween and Christmas.

[Expletive Deleted]

Some one fire Quesada now.Just out of curiousity . . . why Quesada and not Brevoort?

[Phoney Bone]

I'm not touching this thread with a 10-foot pole.

:D :D

[EZMOHR]

Just out of curiousity . . . why Quesada and not Brevoort?


As the main boss, or whatever he is....Or figurehead, guard on watch, whatever....he is the one who is responsible for the things that are going on at Marvel now. I realize he is just the mouth piece, but I'm ready for a new mouthpiece to tell me my comics are going to be late every month.

[CLavery]

This so annoying first of all this book works in six issue story arcs and second of all marvel are going to let this artist get away with being so slow as to draw one issue every 3 months. That means that we get a slow badly paced six part story every year and a half. Whats up with that?

Ah well, it gives me an excuse to drop the book. I am not a fan of Granov's art and I haven't enjoyed the first 2 issues.

[Captain Blitz]

Hey, with this long of a delay, Marvel could maybe reboot the series! In the mighty Marvel way, it would be an exciting new number one for a new quarter of a year!

Some things are just NOT funny. :D

[Hipnautik]

I have to wait until April? :eek:

[Cowlander]

With a 3 month delay something is obviously going on behind the scenes. SOmekind of personal issues or tradgedy. Thats to long a delay simply for artistic slowness.

[Ivan Isaacs]

Who says Granov is to blame?
He managed to "draw" NecroWar ON TIME!

[Jake V]

Ellis said in his Bad Signal email newsletter:
I'm into the fourth IRON MAN
script now -- I've been deliberately
staying just a script ahead of Adi
Granov, so I can keep tuning the
script to his strengths as I discover
them. Rich Johnston tells me there's
some stink about the solicitation
schedule on IRON MAN being extended
again, and all I can tell you is that
it's news to Adi and I. Adi's going
slower than he expected because
he's trying to get it right, and I
think maybe I broke him by making
the first episode 32pp long, but
we're moving along. As I said to Rich,
it sounds like bad information to me.
And the pages are gorgeous.

There has to be something going on at Marvel's end.

[The Sentry]

Personally, I think it's worth the wait.
No big deal, as far as I'm concerned, but I can understand others who aren't willing to wait.

[Gladiator X]

This just sucks.

I frellin' HATE late books! :mad:

[Michael P]

Originally typed by Warren Ellis:

As I said to Rich,
it sounds like bad information to me.


If this is true, that bad information made it all the way to Diamond without anybody noticing, since they're the ones who told Newsarama.

[The Wayner]

Don't know what to say... I'm disappointed because the arc is moving slow and I wanted to head towards the payoff. But, then again, this'll just save me a few bucks for the next couple months.

Ah well. They say good things come to those who wait...

[Will.S]

Don't know what to say... I'm disappointed because the arc is moving slow and I wanted to head towards the payoff. But, then again, this'll just save me a few bucks for the next couple months.

Ah well. They say good things come to those who wait...
Ditto.

I must say though that I REALLY want to seee what happens in the next issue.

[Maestro]

I knew I made the right decision to wait for the trade.

[Blueferret]

I had heard they were thinking of taking this to a 6 week schedule but 3 months??? Marvel just can't get their acts together when it comes to deadlines. Pretty pathetic.

Hell, if the EIC can't get issue #2 of his own book out, how do expect others to get theirs out?

[Jimmy_Helter]

If Ellis is JUST NOW finishing up the fourth issue, as he says, - then why is he surprised that they've resolictied issue 3? I don't buy this "playing up to Adi strengths..." speech. What does that mean anyway? "Adi draws really good cell phones. I'll put more cell phones in issue 4!"

All I know is that John Byrne - By Himself! - could crank out 9 issues of Iron Man in 3 months.

[Cayman]

Too bad, I'm really excited to read the 3rd issue. Oh well, there's $2.99 deferred.

Cay

[Expletive Deleted]

All I know is that John Byrne - By Himself! - could crank out 9 issues of Iron Man in 3 months.Yes, he could.

How's that working out for DOOM PATROL, by the way?

Seriously, though, Marvel wants a non-traditional style on this book. They should've found someone faster than Granov, but invoking Byrne and the implication of a more standard style . . . kinda defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

[Deathstroke]

I didn't care for the first two issues, so I dropped the title.

Reading that it's going to be 3 months late makes me so NOT regret my decision.

[Ivan Isaacs]

I knew I made the right decision to wait for the trade.

I knew I made the right decision to ignore the title because Ellis is writing it.
I'm so sick of this deeeeeeeecooooooompreeeeesseeeed storytelling.
The artwork is great BTW, but I knew that from NecroWar and the District X Prelude.

[Siddon]

Jeez I guess I will be crossing off IronMan tpb off my list of trades for the new year.

Oh sh@#%uckets I just used "Crossing" and "Iron Man" another 7 years bad luck for Sid

[Rich L]

Well if this is true, it only solidifies my decision to drop the book. I've not been too impressed with the first few issues and I was wavering - but if I have to wait three months to get the next issue I'm outta here.

[discostu]

Some one fire Quesada now. He might go down as one of the worst editors ever. I mean, I am sick of this crud. I like to read comics, and I know doing art is time consuming and hard, but when I see that Grandnov is curing cancer, then I might let these delays at Marvel slide.
Shut your dirty hole!

[discostu]

But this is why I wait for the trades. TPBs make everything all good.

[Lurker]

But this is why I wait for the trades. TPBs make everything all good.

Yeah, TPBs are all good but their constant presense on the horizon and all the late books will kill the new issue market just like speculation killed the back issue market. The entire comic book specialty store market will be next.

[Dial Tone]

Brevoort shouldn't have refused to listen to the fans, and should have put Michelinie and Layton back on the book with a really strong penciller. If he had listened, sales would have been better, and this wouldn't have been an issue. I think it's safe to call this relaunch a big fat failure, and it's a shame, because the first issue showed much promise. It's just another Warren Ellis failure at Marvel that he can notch in his belt. I'm glad the Captain America and New Avengers launches have been successful, but there is no excuse for what happened with IM. What's next, are Brevoort's bad editorial decisions going to get IM cancelled and foolishly reinvented, like he's now doing with Thor for the same reasons? I don't see this as Quesada's fault at all.

[Rich L]

Brevoort shouldn't have refused to listen to the fans, and should have put Michelinie and Layton back on the book with a really strong penciller. If he had listened, sales would have been better, and this wouldn't have been an issue. I think it's safe to call this relaunch a big fat failure, and it's a shame, because the first issue showed much promise. It's just another Warren Ellis failure at Marvel that he can notch in his belt. I'm glad the Captain America and New Avengers launches have been successful, but there is no excuse for what happened with IM. What's next, are Brevoort's bad editorial decisions going to get IM cancelled and foolishly reinvented, like he's now doing with Thor for the same reasons? I don't see this as Quesada's fault at all.

And exactly how many fans were lobbying for the return of Michelinie and Layton? Don't get me wrong; their run on Iron Man was, aside from Busiek's run early in vol 3 the only run on the character that I've stuck with, but I don't think they are the answer to the sales today.

Ellis is an oddity for me; some of his work I love (Planetary, Stormwatch, Authority, Excalibur) but most of the rest leaves me cold. But I did enjoy the first two issues' writing, tweaked origin aside, and I thought it was going somewhere.

What I haven't liked is Granov's art. I'm not saying the man can't draw because he's clearly got a lot of talent - I just don't think the character is the right one for him. It feels lifeless; it's detailed but static and I don't think it belongs in a book like Iron Man. And the fact that it appears the book is running late because of the art just rubs salt in the wound.

I disagree with you saying that the blame for this lies with Tom Brevoort. The buck for editorial decisions ultimately lies with the E-in-C. You can't delegate responsibility, nor should you.

Finally, the sales:here's Iron Man's numbers so far:

20 IRON MAN #1 $3.50 68,992
24 IRON MAN #2 (Note Price) 53,292 - a 22.7% drop off which is pretty standard for a first issue.

Cap debuted with:
22 CAPTAIN AMERICA #1 $2.99 67,225 - so less than Iron Man#1, at a lower price, and with a late second issue - so exactly how is this a more succesful launch, aside from the fact that it is undeniably the better book? You have't got anything to measure it against yet.

[Dial Tone]

And exactly how many fans were lobbying for the return of Michelinie and Layton? Don't get me wrong; their run on Iron Man was, aside from Busiek's run early in vol 3 the only run on the character that I've stuck with, but I don't think they are the answer to the sales today.

Ellis is an oddity for me; some of his work I love (Planetary, Stormwatch, Authority, Excalibur) but most of the rest leaves me cold. But I did enjoy the first two issues' writing, tweaked origin aside, and I thought it was going somewhere.

What I haven't liked is Granov's art. I'm not saying the man can't draw because he's clearly got a lot of talent - I just don't think the character is the right one for him. It feels lifeless; it's detailed but static and I don't think it belongs in a book like Iron Man. And the fact that it appears the book is running late because of the art just rubs salt in the wound.

I disagree with you saying that the blame for this lies with Tom Brevoort. The buck for editorial decisions ultimately lies with the E-in-C. You can't delegate responsibility, nor should you.

Finally, the sales:here's Iron Man's numbers so far:

20 IRON MAN #1 $3.50 68,992
24 IRON MAN #2 (Note Price) 53,292 - a 22.7% drop off which is pretty standard for a first issue.

Cap debuted with:
22 CAPTAIN AMERICA #1 $2.99 67,225 - so less than Iron Man#1, at a lower price, and with a late second issue - so exactly how is this a more succesful launch, aside from the fact that it is undeniably the better book? You have't got anything to measure it against yet.

I can delegate responsibility. As a paying customer, that's my right.

The online community (which is a representation of comic fans, except to those who roll over when Quesada or somebody says they aren't) very much wanted Michelinie and Layton back. They want Simonson back on Thor as well, and wanted Peter David back on Hulk. Brevoort refused, even to the point of insulting Layton, as he said he doesn't want people rehashing old glories. Bob didn't much care for the insult. This happened at the comic boards.

How is one relaunch a success and the other not? Are you serious? Just read this thread, and you can see that plainly. 3 month delays? A 6 month run by the "new regular creative team". The weakest book of the relaunches. Captain America has suffered from relaunch burnout, as well as a horrible Marvel Knights direction, or I suspect it would have outsold IM with it's first issue, and I'll bet issue 2 sells better. I'm sorry if you judge successes on sales, but I certainly look a lot deeper than that. The sales on IM were not at the levels of something Bendis would relaunch, and they weren't out of the reach of anything that ANYBODY could have reached with a new #1 issue of IM. Dave and Bob would have been able to reach those numbers. They would have sustained them better. They wouldn't have started putting out a book every 3 months. Captain America will not only sustain better sales (and yes, the drop from issue 1 to issue 2 was a little steep for IM), but it will continue to sell every month while pages are being drawn for months and months with no sales being made where IM is concerned. That = far less sales, incase you really want to get into a sales discussion.

The relaunch is now a failure on many levels, with sales to take a big hit from this.

[Rich L]

I can delegate responsibility. As a paying customer, that's my right.

Actually I meant that Quesada can't delegate responibility. He's the boss, the buck rests with him, not Brevoort.

The online community (which is a representation of comic fans, except to those who roll over when Quesada or somebody says they aren't) very much wanted Michelinie and Layton back. They want Simonson back on Thor as well, and wanted Peter David back on Hulk. Brevoort refused, even to the point of insulting Layton, as he said he doesn't want people rehashing old glories. Bob didn't much care for the insult. This happened at the comic boards.

I'd agree that the online community is a represtation of comic fans but I doubt very much that it's a proportional representation. Take these boards, one of the busiest on the net - it has almost 9,000 members who can post. The highest selling book in December that didn't have multiple covers sold 140,000 (ID Crisis #7) so you can take that as the minimum number of readers out there (ignoring that lots won't have bought the book). Which puts the board at about 6% of those sales at the most. And the people who post are by and large the people who are passionate about comics; you are, I am. We might not agree with each other but we take time out of the day to talk about them.

My point (eventually) is that you say the online community very much wanted the M/L team back, but I would say that they wouldn't have generated the buzz around the book that Ellis?Granov did, regardless of how its turned out, and I doubt that they would have generated the level of sales either.

As far as Brevoort saying that, he has said a number of times that he doesn't think the way to move a character forward is to have a returning creative team. By and large, I think he's right. I'm not defending the wording you say he used but I think he's pretty much hit the nail on the head. Waid's second run on Cap wasn't up to his first;Byrne's return to Hulk wasn't up to his first (which was no great shakes in the first place). PAD's return to Hulk is doing well but that might be an exception. The point is, there's absolutely nothing wrong with taking risks with creative teams if they can add something to the character and book that an returning team may not be able to.

How is one relaunch a success and the other not? Are you serious? Just read this thread, and you can see that plainly. 3 month delays? A 6 month run by the "new regular creative team". The weakest book of the relaunches. Captain America has suffered from relaunch burnout, as well as a horrible Marvel Knights direction, or I suspect it would have outsold IM with it's first issue, and I'll bet issue 2 sells better. I'm sorry if you judge successes on sales, but I certainly look a lot deeper than that.

Hey, I agree that sales aren't the best barometer of success but unfortunately they're the one that counts. Cap may have suffered from relaunch-itis like you say, but it was the better book as I said in my last post.

I wouldn't say that the delay means the relaunch isn't a success; if it sells in spite of the delay then it's still a success. If you're not using sales as a measure of success and you want to look deeper then fine, look deeper. Look at the story, the art, the characters, the writing. Personally I won't be buying it but that's because of Granov more than the delay - the delay just cements my decision.

The sales on IM were not at the levels of something Bendis would relaunch, and they weren't out of the reach of anything that ANYBODY could have reached with a new #1 issue of IM. Dave and Bob would have been able to reach those numbers.

The first part I agree with, but then New Avengers had the benefit of destroying the old team (still don't like Disassembled!) and the IM Disassembled issues were weak at best - the sales (yes, them again!) on the last issue of the previous volume were about 35,000 (and the last issue pre the Dis. crossover were under 30,000) so essentially the relaunch doubled sales for the first issue. Could it have done better? Sure. But it could have done worse too, as Iron Man has been selling below Cap for some time - but it narrowly beat the relaunch issue. Why? Ellis. Would Michelinie have had the same draw? No way, only to diehard iron Man fans. And there clearly aren't many of them.


They would have sustained them better. They wouldn't have started putting out a book every 3 months. Captain America will not only sustain better sales (and yes, the drop from issue 1 to issue 2 was a little steep for IM), but it will continue to sell every month while pages are being drawin for months and months with no sales being made where IM is concerned. That = far less sales, incase you really want to get into a sales discussion.

The relaunch is now a failure on many levels, with sales to take a big hit from this.

Would Michelinie and Layton have produced the issues more regularly? God, yes. But I don't think they would have launched as strongly or have sustained the sales. There just isn't as big an audience for IM as there used to be and maybe only a marquee name can boost the sales that much.

I'm not disagreeing with everything you've said (even if it does kind of look like it); Marvel shouldn't solicit books without having enough issues in the bag to let the team fall behind a bit - but this has been endemic under Quesada under ALL his editors not just Tom Brevoort, so I think that the blame rests at the top.

Man, I can't even remember why I started this post now...

[Expletive Deleted]

The online community (which is a representation of comic fans, except to those who roll over when Quesada or somebody says they aren't) very much wanted Michelinie and Layton back. They want Simonson back on Thor as well, and wanted Peter David back on Hulk.Representative of the community as a whole? Not a chance.

If we, internet comic fandom, were really all that indicative of buying trends, books like SLEEPER, GOTHAM CENTRAL, and SHE-HULK would be blockbusters instead of barely skirting cancellation. X-FORCE would've been roundly dismissed instead of debuting in the 50k range. I could go on.

As for the return of classic creative teams . . . eh, I'm mixed. If they want another shot and they've still got the chops, sure, but if it's just fan nostalgia for the comic's glory days (see also Claremont, Chris), what's the point?

[Dial Tone]

Here is something for you to read, Rich. Obviously , we will just have to agree to disagree on any issues that we disagree on, but this might change your mind concerning Brevoort or Quesada being responsible.

http://www.boblayton.com/ironman.end.htm

This is a totally different case, as it just deals with the Iron Man :The End story, but it shows just how Brevoort has blown it with Dave and Bob, and didn't even have the consideration and respect to communicate with them personally.

As far as returning teams not living up to their old runs, I can name just as many, if not more cases, in which they did. Breevoort seems to be basing his philosophy on certain cases, while ignoring the others.

And Ellis has not been a big draw. Look at the sales of his books. They are below what others have. Ellis isn't a superstar in the industry at all. Look at the disappointing sales of IM #1, if that HAD been a superstar draw attached to it. Look at the fast dropping sales of his Ultimate books, both FF and his limited series. I don't see where you are getting that Ellis is a big selling writer, because he isn't, and Michelinie and Layton with a new #1 IM would not have sold any less. The creative team they had before the relaunch could have done comparable numbers. Michelinie and Layton could have been marketed and sold, just because of their overwhelming success on the book that nobody else has been able to match, and they did it TWICE, so it was no accident.

[Predator]

Wow, three months. I'm glad I decided to wait for the TPB.

[The Shadow]

I get mine for free... so a 3 month delay doesn't nother me.

As for Ellis... some stuff is AWESOME... others... meh.

I'm a bit disappointed in Iron Man so far because he's rarely actually been IN the issues... I do like his handling of Tony Stark... but the comic isn't called Tony Stark.

[Jack Ryder]

Just out of curiousity . . . why Quesada and not Brevoort?
Being as he's the EIC, and he sets a poor example.
How is NYX doing?
Where's issue 2 of Daredevil:Father?

Besides, I don't think Brevoort can do anything much these days, but what his boss's tell him.
Have you noticed the change in his books from two years ago to today?
And his were the only books that stayed on schedule.

[Jack Ryder]

Didn't the first issue of Iron Man ship at the same time as Previews?
Wouldn't it have been better to hold it for a while?
I hear X-Force is going to be late because Rob used up all his old art he did for a Cable mini that got cancelled.

[Blueferret]

Yes, he could.

How's that working out for DOOM PATROL, by the way?




Dude, that is quite possibly the best comment I've read around here in the past few months :D That's funny on so many levels :confused:

[mushroom2703]

Man....see, i thought "ha, its gonig to be 3 mnoths late, so i'll go buy issues 1 and 2, read them no matter how much i don't like the art, and know i'm not missing out on anything". Then i enjoyed them :P ah well, i suppose it jsut gives me time for the art to grow on me a bit more, still don't like it, but i think its a cool story going on.

[cactusmaac]

Here is something for you to read, Rich. Obviously , we will just have to agree to disagree on any issues that we disagree on, but this might change your mind concerning Brevoort or Quesada being responsible.

http://www.boblayton.com/ironman.end.htm

This is a totally different case, as it just deals with the Iron Man :The End story, but it shows just how Brevoort has blown it with Dave and Bob, and didn't even have the consideration and respect to communicate with them personally.

As far as returning teams not living up to their old runs, I can name just as many, if not more cases, in which they did. Breevoort seems to be basing his philosophy on certain cases, while ignoring the others.

And Ellis has not been a big draw. Look at the sales of his books. They are below what others have. Ellis isn't a superstar in the industry at all. Look at the disappointing sales of IM #1, if that HAD been a superstar draw attached to it. Look at the fast dropping sales of his Ultimate books, both FF and his limited series. I don't see where you are getting that Ellis is a big selling writer, because he isn't, and Michelinie and Layton with a new #1 IM would not have sold any less. The creative team they had before the relaunch could have done comparable numbers. Michelinie and Layton could have been marketed and sold, just because of their overwhelming success on the book that nobody else has been able to match, and they did it TWICE, so it was no accident.


So how is Future Comics doing then?

[Ivan Isaacs]

So how is Future Comics doing then?

Diamond managed to get them bancrupt.

[Rich L]

Here is something for you to read, Rich. Obviously , we will just have to agree to disagree on any issues that we disagree on, but this might change your mind concerning Brevoort or Quesada being responsible.

http://www.boblayton.com/ironman.end.htm

This is a totally different case, as it just deals with the Iron Man :The End story, but it shows just how Brevoort has blown it with Dave and Bob, and didn't even have the consideration and respect to communicate with them personally.

Yeah, that does seem like Tom B blew it. Have to say, kind of liked their take on The End. Shame.

As far as returning teams not living up to their old runs, I can name just as many, if not more cases, in which they did. Breevoort seems to be basing his philosophy on certain cases, while ignoring the others.

I know, sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. But he's entitled to his opinion -its just a case that his opinion carries more weight because of his position.


And Ellis has not been a big draw. Look at the sales of his books. They are below what others have. Ellis isn't a superstar in the industry at all. Look at the disappointing sales of IM #1, if that HAD been a superstar draw attached to it. Look at the fast dropping sales of his Ultimate books, both FF and his limited series. I don't see where you are getting that Ellis is a big selling writer, because he isn't, and Michelinie and Layton with a new #1 IM would not have sold any less. The creative team they had before the relaunch could have done comparable numbers. Michelinie and Layton could have been marketed and sold, just because of their overwhelming success on the book that nobody else has been able to match, and they did it TWICE, so it was no accident.

I have to admit, I do think of Ellis as a big draw to a book, yes. Maybe it's just me, even though I don't read the Ultimate line. I just think that he's one of the better writers out there for pure inventiveness.

As far as the M/L team, I know they had succesful runs in the past and sold copies in the 100s of thousands but in today's market I don't think they'd make any more impact than anyone else. I'm not knocking them, it's just a different market and they're not 'big' names anymore. I certainly don't remember Iron Man: Bad Blood setting the sales charts alight.

Anyway, I suspect we'll just have to disagree to disagree on this...been fun!

[Nick MB]

*shrug* I buy Iron Man entirely because it's written by Ellis. Worked on me.

[streator]

i dropped the last ironman series at issue 78, after collecting it since heroes return. i was tempted again with ellis, but with the delays, i am glad to have passed.

[The Shadow]

why does the lateness bother people?

When a book I get is late all it means is I can spend that money on something else!

[Ivan Isaacs]

i dropped the last ironman series at issue 78

When the title finally got interesting again since Mike Grell was let go?

why does the lateness bother people?

When a book I get is late all it means is I can spend that money on something else!

Makes me wonder, too. I mean that's why I waited for books like "Wolverine: The End" until the last issue arrived to read it. ame goes for "Secret War" etc.
On the other hand I'm preordering my comic books and I think that people who only go to the comic shop to buy what's there they simply forgot about certains titles (which would explain the huge drop on a book like "Strange" which is always late).

[Rich L]

I preorder my books too, and it just bugs me when things are late. I also wait to read minis in one, but with a regular monthly I read as and when the issue comes in. If it's late, I forget what went on and the title loses momentum.

It doesn't bother me so much when minis are late (although how difficult would it be to schedule them after completion?) but when monthlies run late it just annoys me.

[Hombre]

I think it's far better for the books to be late than for quality to suffer, with rushed or inconsistent art, say. With a view to the long term relevance of a certain run, it's also a lot better to have as few fill in issues as possible, just to publish what's essential to the story being told.
The last thing we, as readers and posters, should care about is the business end of things.

[Ivan Isaacs]

I think it's far better for the books to be late than for quality to suffer, with rushed or inconsistent art, say.

CrossGen managed to put their books out on time and even when they had to use some fill-in pencillers the book still didn't lack quality in most of the cases.
But when you go out to call Igor Kordey with the words "You have 5 days to pencil 22 pages, is that ok?" and again the next month, and the month after that month and another month after that month, when even the fill-in penciller for the regular penciller isn't able to complete a book within a deadline, then something in the editorial offices is absolutely wrong.

[Hombre]

But when you go out to call Igor Kordey with the words "You have 5 days to pencil 22 pages, is that ok?" and again the next month, and the month after that month and another month after that month, when even the fill-in penciller for the regular penciller isn't able to complete a book within a deadline, then something in the editorial offices is absolutely wrong.

Incidentally, I remember reading that it was this type of concerns that led to Claremont first leaving Marvel.
The alternating art teams is a great idea, I think. Uncanny currently has Alan Davis, but a guest team of Park/Sibal registered very strongly, for example.
I'd be interested in some great Iron Man storytelling, and I would care little how popular it ended up being. This character has had only bad stories after "the mask in the Iron Man", and the ones that were good had really little to do with Iron Man himself, an incidental figure in his own book, and this seems to be also the most recent approach.
If you know me, you already guessed what I would like, i.e. give the book to Priest should Mr. Ellis leave. They may cancel him, but he'd write something that is alive and engaging in the happy interim.

[streator]

[QUOTE=Ivan Isaacs]When the title finally got interesting again since Mike Grell was let go?[QUOTE]
no, issue 78 was the conclusion to the first arc by miller and lucas. the political angle wasnt really grabbing me and philip tan was coming on the book for art chores. grell left much earlier, sometime during the last arc with michael ryan artwork. he was replaced by robin laws, then there was that vegas story, then miller came on the title with issue 73. bottom line- i had been spending three dollars on a title for a long time that i continually enjoyed less and less.

[The Shadow]

The alternating art teams is a great idea, I think. Uncanny currently has Alan Davis, but a guest team of Park/Sibal registered very strongly, for example.
I dislike that personally... it interups the flow and feel of the series when every couple of issues you have a new artist... and generally fill-in issues suck (or have little relevance to the regular teams opus).

When Jack Kirby can draw 10 monthly books (Not only that, but huge runs as well) and be on time I find it sad and a little pathetic that today's artists can't meet deadlines.

It doesn't bother me so much when minis are late (although how difficult would it be to schedule them after completion?)
I don't get that either... it has always bugged me! I don't understand the idea of rushing out a series (like Spider-Man-Black Cat) when it wasn't even close to being finished. This was the fault of the hack writer... but a book like Secret War should have been done before they sent it out. Mini's that are late cause people to flip to trades which in turn hurts the overall market.

[BlackKnight]

I dislike that personally... it interups the flow and feel of the series when every couple of issues you have a new artist... and generally fill-in issues suck (or have little relevance to the regular teams opus).

When Jack Kirby can draw 10 monthly books (Not only that, but huge runs as well) and be on time I find it sad and a little pathetic that today's artists can't meet deadlines.


I don't get that either... it has always bugged me! I don't understand the idea of rushing out a series (like Spider-Man-Black Cat) when it wasn't even close to being finished. This was the fault of the hack writer... but a book like Secret War should have been done before they sent it out. Mini's that are late cause people to flip to trades which in turn hurts the overall market.

Shadow,
I have to agree, I just don't understand the idea of any book being months late. A week maybe, even two if there was printing problem but months. No that is unacceptable as a business... If an artist or writer can't keep up with deadlines that many, many artists and writers have kept up with for the last 40+ years then they have no business working in a deadline based business...
No matter how good they are, this is still a business and should be run as such.

[The Shadow]

Shadow,
I have to agree, I just don't understand the idea of any book being months late. A week maybe, even two if there was printing problem but months. No that is unacceptable as a business... If an artist or writer can't keep up with deadlines that many, many artists and writers have kept up with for the last 40+ years then they have no business working in a deadline based business...
No matter how good they are, this is still a business and should be run as such.
Yep.

I'd either wait to relaunch (give the artist some time) or fire his ass for not meeting deadlines... same with a writer

[BlackKnight]

Yep.

I'd either wait to relaunch (give the artist some time) or fire his ass for not meeting deadlines... same with a writer

Exactly, and if it is in the middle of a comic like issue 6+, just fire his happy ass. Do not pass go, do not relaunch please collect you last paycheck on the way out.

[Ivan Isaacs]

[QUOTE=Ivan Isaacs]no, issue 78 was the conclusion to the first arc by miller and lucas. the political angle wasnt really grabbing me

Yeah, first I didn't like it, but after this arc Miller kicked @$$. He was setting up his own new cast and you just saw that he had some things he wanted to tell. Something different.

and philip tan was coming on the book for art chores.

Yeah, I know. But even that was over after 4 issues. :D

grell left much earlier, sometime during the last arc with michael ryan artwork. he was replaced by robin laws, then there was that vegas story,

I know. That's what I meant. After Grell was fired the series got pretty bad past.

[Vegetarian Goat]

Did anyone notice that #4 is set to come out in JULY?? even though we JUST got #3 this past week?

What the crud.

[Jake V]

At least they're soliciting it for july instead of telling us it'll be out in a month and delaying the hell out of it.

[Gorakmev]

Some one fire Quesada now. He might go down as one of the worst editors ever. I mean, I am sick of this crud. I like to read comics, and I know doing art is time consuming and hard, but when I see that Grandnov is curing cancer, then I might let these delays at Marvel slide.

Amen. He's not only a crumy editor but a outragesly bad artist. He murdered Arana and the Avengers!