From Brave and the Bold's Mitefall: A CGI-Batgirl Segment

[batGRRRl4ever]

In the latest episode to Batman: The Brave And The Bold in an episode titled "Mitefall!" we get treated to the possibility of an all-new ongoing BATGIRL ANIMATED SERIES (!!!):

http://www.gothamknightsonline.com/?p=20458

Unfortunately as a big-time original Batgirl fan it was just a "joke" by Bat-Mite in the cartoon. It rubbed me a little raw after the initial excitment that the makers of the cartoon might possibly have thought that a Batgirl cartoon, or female-centric bat-cartoon period, was a good idea for a laugh or might seem 'ridiculous'.

Should the WB and Cartoon Network be made aware that this imaginary promo would actually be a GOOD idea where people would like and watch an ongoing Batgirl cartoon?

[pryde15]

I'm still sad that Bruce Timm decided against a Batgirl: Year One movie, I would have eaten that up.

[shark]

A cartoon show is unlikely. A bat family cartoon has more chances of being made and we know that has a snowball's chance in Hell.

I'd pay good money for a Batgirl: Year One movie.

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/081/f/0/f0fc2570b65f77af6669ce141d31e0e7.jpg

Maybe if the new Batgirl series is successful they'll revive the project?

[suss2it]

I'm still sad that Bruce Timm decided against a Batgirl: Year One movie, I would have eaten that up.
I don't think it was Timm that decided against it, I believe it was people higher up.

[maximiliani]

I'd love a tongue and cheek "Batgirls" series, a non-canon sort of fun cartoon for Cartoon Network that takes the Batgirl legacy and goes somewhat manic with it.

[shingi70]

wasn't there a rumor of a CG batman show?

[batGRRRl4ever]

I'd love a tongue and cheek "Batgirls" series, a non-canon sort of fun cartoon for Cartoon Network that takes the Batgirl legacy and goes somewhat manic with it.

So basically this: http://********************/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/tt.jpg but in animated form? You should call Adult Swim, you never know.

[batGRRRl4ever]

wasn't there a rumor of a CG batman show?

Yup: http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/thread.jspa?threadID=2000247786&tstart=0

Although with the original Batgirl's computer background a CG Batgirl cartoon makes more sense to me ;)

[shingi70]

So basically this: http://********************/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/tt.jpg but in animated form? You should call Adult Swim, you never know.

I'm surprised they haven't made a tiny titans show yet. All you have to do is have a sketch based cartoon of two fifteenth minute segments. Just apadt the comic and its a license to print money.

[batGRRRl4ever]

I'm surprised they haven't made a tiny titans show yet. All you have to do is have a sketch based cartoon of two fifteenth minute segments. Just apadt the comic and its a license to print money.

And one could add the one-two punch of the two cartoons being additionally digital shorts on i-pads & i-phones. Your right, a Tiny Titans cartoon COULD work.

[Scud]

I'm surprised they haven't made a tiny titans show yet.

I honestly don't know how that thought never crossed my mind before but damn, that's a good idea.

[BloodOps]

The chance of a Batgirl movie is almost zero even if Year One has plenty of appearances by Batman and Robin. DC is only doing Superman, Batman, Justice League and Green Lantern animated movies.

[batGRRRl4ever]

The chance of a Batgirl movie is almost zero even if Year One has plenty of appearances by Batman and Robin. DC is only doing Superman, Batman, Justice League and Green Lantern animated movies.

I'm talking about the possibility of an ongoing cartoon, not one of DC's animated movies. I think Barbara's character would actually have a better chance with an ongoing cartoon than a one-shot animated movie. The original Batgirl has a strong and proven track record of moving merchandise in her likeness, just think of all the toy tie-ins!

[BloodOps]

I still don't see it, I understand you're a huge Batgirl fan but it's not gonna happen.

In several years we'll get another Batman show(please no CGI*) hopefully returning to a more darker tone. I do love Brave and the Bold but we need another dark Batman show.

*Batman in CGI wouldn't look good at all, I'm not liking the look of the Green Lantern show either. Isn't drawing cheaper? The only reason I'm watching Green Lantern is because Timm is on board. The only CGI show that successfully made itself look good is The Clone Wars. Now that's how you do a CGI show.

[shark]

I don't think Batgirl is popular enough to maintain her own show. Same with Robin (Teen Titans and Young Justice don't count because they are team shows). A Batman show a la BtaS? That could work.


I still don't see it, I understand you're a huge Batgirl fan but it's not gonna happen.

In several years we'll get another Batman show(please no CGI*) hopefully returning to a more darker tone. I do love Brave and the Bold but we need another dark Batman show.

*Batman in CGI wouldn't look good at all, I'm not liking the look of the Green Lantern show either. Isn't drawing cheaper? The only reason I'm watching Green Lantern is because Timm is on board. The only CGI show that successfully made itself look good is The Clone Wars. Now that's how you do a CGI show.

It depends on the complexity of your show/movie.

Personally, I don't think Batman would work in 3D.

[BloodOps]

I have no idea so I thought I would ask. I feel like the characters in Green Lantern look like blocks.

I would enjoy Iron Man: Armored Adventures so much more if it was just drawn.

[Eivion]

With the rumors that the next Batman show might be CG I wonder if that clip is maybe from it.

[Binker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW3qrdfRj04

[Greenbats]

very interesting

[Dick_Wingnut]

AWESOME, and it's even the vintage Yvonne Craig Batgirl :drool

[Cavemold]

Looks good!!

[AJM]

yyyeeessss!

[AJM]

AWESOME, and it's even the vintage Yvonne Craig Batgirl :drool

There's no way a girl could beat up a grown man, though. (And the suit's straight from the pages of Batgirl: Year One, not Yvonne Craig.)

[Drz]

I think the CGI style is the same, but WB will never make a Girl starred DC cartoon. So it's like a truth weaved in a joke, you see the style but you don't see much of the star Batman.

The Brave and the Bold team is doing that show.

[FHIZ]

I think some people may be getting a little too excited with their hopes up... this was from a Batmite episode of Brave and the Bold after all.

If it turns out true, cool, but until then, I'm not holding my breath.

[Patroklos]

There's no way a girl could beat up a grown man, though. (And the suit's straight from the pages of Batgirl: Year One, not Yvonne Craig.)

I don't think DC or Cartoon Network is very concerned with that particular brand of realism, don't forget that they have had 10 year old sidekick boys beating up heaps of huge thugs for 50 years or so... Unless you're being sarcastic?

Anyway, I'm not a big fan of Batgirl so I probably won't catch this either way, but doesn't the speaker voice sound like this is leaning towards The Brave and the Bold territory in terms of seriousness?

[Red Lotus]

I think some people may be getting a little too excited with their hopes up... this was from a Batmite episode of Brave and the Bold after all.

If it turns out true, cool, but until then, I'm not holding my breath.

the first thing I thought of was it was just something Batmite did. I wanted the CG to be Batman and Robin but with Dick and Damian.

[Namtab]

Yeah, I don't know if that was test footage or what, but the dialogue is from the above mentioned B:BatB. You don't see Bat-mite, but you can clearly hear him.

[AJM]

Unless you're being sarcastic?

Bingo. Private joke, sorry.

[Namtab]

I don't think DC or Cartoon Network is very concerned with that particular brand of realism, don't forget that they have had 10 year old sidekick boys beating up heaps of huge thugs for 50 years or so... Unless you're being sarcastic?


I think this a a continuation of another conversation between the two of them

[Hromovlad]

for once, my interest is peaked

alto I'm slightly ticked at the fact that Barbara is the only Batgirl to ever get to appear outside the comic (besides the extremely brief, uncredited, non-speaking cameo of Cassandra Cain on the Justice League)

[Munkiman]

Not a real trailer. Doubt it'll happen, but it'd be cool if it did.

[Personamanx]

Looks cool. Just a BATB segment though. It might, might be an indication that Babs as Batgirl will be in the rumoured (But isn't in confirmed? Whatever) Batman CGI Animated series.

[Dick_Wingnut]

There's no way a girl could beat up a grown man, though. (And the suit's straight from the pages of Batgirl: Year One, not Yvonne Craig.)

I never said there is no way a woman can beat up a man, quit being so dramatic.

I realize it's not a 1:1 copy of the Yvonne Costume. I'd have been more specific if I knew I'd get my balls busted over it, but the motorcycle and logo at the end looked very inspired by her.

I love it, the music and cell shaded look feel very TF2.

[AJM]

I never said there is no way a woman can beat up a man, quit being so dramatic.

Uh . . yeah, you did (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=379416&page=15):


I hate women because I know for a fact they cant compete in unarmed altercations?

And also (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=379416&page=13):


It's real world logic, top women in the world in martial arts wouldnt last a few minuets with the top men.

[Dick_Wingnut]

You omit the qualifications I made that preceded that post. You know, context?

[Dick_Wingnut]

There you go, you edited it in. Now find the difference.

[Stu]

Without knowing the context when I watched the video, when I heard "Awesome sauce!" I expected a Condiment King appearance.:frown:

[AJM]

There you go, you edited it in. Now find the difference.

In both statements you say that women can't beat men in combat. I can't find a difference or qualification.

[DarkKnghtJared]

I think some people may be getting a little too excited with their hopes up... this was from a Batmite episode of Brave and the Bold after all.

If it turns out true, cool, but until then, I'm not holding my breath.

Yeah, just a segment from B:B&TB. I would watch the hell out of it if it was, though.

[Dick_Wingnut]

The difference is I said the TOP women vs the TOP men, meaning equal skill levels. Of course a woman who has been trained will destroy a man who hasnt, and thus I would never make a blanket statement like "a woman cant beat up a man".

In a world like the Nolanverse, someone as nonthreatening as Anne Hathaway being any kind of physical match for even your average goon would definitely take my head out of the game.

Now if they had cast Gina Carano, Id be a believer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGdCZJNXPnc

[Neutrino]

Words escape me... that's just... it's just... it's so freaking cool.

Well, I guess it could be Stephanie Brown. That might make it a little cooler.

[BloodOps]

Probably not happening, we were discussing it in several topics down.

[El Sombrero]

OMG I want this show for real so bad

[maximiliani]

Babs as Batgirl is nice, but to me it's so one dimensional by herself. Barbara Gordon is better than Batgirl now, seriously. I'm glad this might be a teaser as DCU has never had a female lead TV show, I just wish there was more if indeed just her show. Sure she's earned her own show, but again, the beginning and end of Barbara Gordon should not equal Batgirl.

Being said, I would love a non-canon breaking cartoon show a la Tiny Titans that featured all three Batgirls (the same age) going on missions from a mysterious benefactor Big Bat to bring down an evil corporation in Gotham, whose own agents like, Clayface, Killer Moth, Cluemaster, and Lady Shiva etc etc, attempt to take over the city. Sort of a Charlie's Angels meets Powerpuff Girls affair. Then our three main characters (Babs, Steph and Cass) and are sometimes helped/hindered by three mysterious "Batgirls" (Turns out to be Bat-Girl/Flamebird, Huntress, and Misfit) who turn out to be working for Mother Bat, (Batwoman). I thought it would be fun, and really retro cheesy could be fun. Tim could be their gadget wiz.

[MajorHoy]

Was Gotham Girls ever shown as a show on Cartoon Network?
http://images.art.com/images/products/large/10097000/10097458.jpg

http://nyquil.org/uploads/gotham-girls.jpg

[MajorHoy]

Originally Posted by Dick_Wingnut
It's real world logic, top women in the world in martial arts wouldnt last a few minuets with the top men.

Aren't minuets dances?!? Are you arguing about martial arts combat / tournaments or Dancing With the Stars? :confused:

[batGRRRl4ever]

Probably not happening, we were discussing it in several topics down.

Yup, a thread on the same subject was posted a bit more than half a day earlier:

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=379394

And we were discussing that the promo is a fake for the cartoon, and if this was either a compliment or insult to Batgirl.

[ticklefist]

I hope the reaction this has received has them scratching their chins. Gets some dialog going.

[Munkiman]

Yup, a thread on the same subject was posted a bit more than half a day earlier:

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=379394

And we were discussing that the promo is a fake for the cartoon, and if this was either a compliment or insult to Batgirl.

How could it be seen as an insult? I mean, sure, there's Bat-Mite's incredulous reaction ("It's her show?!") but he's a big Batman fanboy.

[batGRRRl4ever]

How could it be seen as an insult? I mean, sure, there's Bat-Mite's incredulous reaction ("It's her show?!") but he's a big Batman fanboy.

If you had read my intro on the same subject you'd see that I felt that the makers of the cartoon were having a laugh at the thought of a female-centric bat-cartoon. I think that comes across as sexist, showing that DC hasn't matured all that much from the dark day when they historically said, "Cripple the b****" because they no longer back in the 80's wanted a female version of Batman around in the comics.

[DarkKnghtJared]

Was Gotham Girls ever shown as a show on Cartoon Network?


If it's what I'm thinking of, then I'm pretty sure they were web-exclusive.

[DarkKnghtJared]

How could it be seen as an insult? I mean, sure, there's Bat-Mite's incredulous reaction ("It's her show?!") but he's a big Batman fanboy.

Yeah--in a lot of ways, Bat-Mite kind-of represents the voice of the "annoying comic book freak," so anything he says is kind-of meant to be jokes at his expense.

[americanwonder]

I don't think it was Timm that decided against it, I believe it was people higher up.

That's what I recall reading. Timm really wanted to do it, but someone higher up said no. I'm pretty sure it was due to the slow sales start of the WW dvd (Timm wanted to do a WW sequel, as well, but that also got canceled). :frown:

[americanwonder]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW3qrdfRj04

I LOVE IT! Go Babs! :biggrin:

Want more. Want more. Want more. :biggrin:

But, I won't hold my breath. :frown:

Thanks for the link. :smile:

[batGRRRl4ever]

That's what I recall reading. Timm really wanted to do it, but someone higher up said no. I'm pretty sure it was due to the slow sales start of the WW dvd (Timm wanted to do a WW sequel, as well, but that also got canceled). :frown:

If true that is really frustrating. DC keeps Wonder Woman as their sacred cow of the #1 DCU female despite many years of mediocre sales in her comics. An interesting fact is that culturally and in sales there was a period for just a few years in the 1970's where the original Batgirl's popularity surpassed Wonder Woman's!

Since it's clear that Batman remains DC's #1 property in comics, tv cartoons, and live action motion pictures, I don't see why DC & the WB wouldn't make a bat-female their #1 female DCU counterpart to Batman and work to make Batgirl more popular.

They really should give her her own cartoon and gauge the reaction. She's already proven she has a quite solid record with moving merchandise in her name, and that's what cartoons are really about, selling the spin-off toys based off the cartoons!

[GamerSlyRatchet]

If you had read my intro on the same subject you'd see that I felt that the makers of the cartoon were having a laugh at the thought of a female-centric bat-cartoon. I think that comes across as sexist, showing that DC hasn't matured all that much from the dark day when they historically said, "Cripple the b****" because they no longer back in the 80's wanted a female version of Batman around in the comics.

Yeah.....you are reading far too much into it. They weren't making fun of Batgirl. For all we know, this may be actually a legit show, considering James Tucker mentioned he was working on a CGI Batman show that was, according to him, VERY different from the others.

[MajorHoy]

If true that is really frustrating. DC keeps Wonder Woman as their sacred cow of the #1 DCU female despite many years of mediocre sales in her comics. An interesting fact is that culturally and in sales there was a period for just a few years in the 1970's where the original Batgirl's popularity surpassed Wonder Woman's!

Since it's clear that Batman remains DC's #1 property in comics, tv cartoons, and live action motion pictures, I don't see why DC & the WB wouldn't make a bat-female their #1 female DCU counterpart to Batman and work to make Batgirl more popular.

They really should give her her own cartoon and gauge the reaction. She's already proven she has a quite solid record with moving merchandise in her name, and that's what cartoons are really about, selling the spin-off toys based off the cartoons!

I can see her popularity from the animated Batman series in the 1990's,
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81896&d=1312650371
but there may be hesitation on DC's part after the mixed results from the live-action Birds of Prey TV show on the WB. (Even though that was . . . what . . . close to maybe ten years ago?)

[shingi70]

If true that is really frustrating. DC keeps Wonder Woman as their sacred cow of the #1 DCU female despite many years of mediocre sales in her comics. An interesting fact is that culturally and in sales there was a period for just a few years in the 1970's where the original Batgirl's popularity surpassed Wonder Woman's!

Since it's clear that Batman remains DC's #1 property in comics, tv cartoons, and live action motion pictures, I don't see why DC & the WB wouldn't make a bat-female their #1 female DCU counterpart to Batman and work to make Batgirl more popular.

They really should give her her own cartoon and gauge the reaction. She's already proven she has a quite solid record with moving merchandise in her name, and that's what cartoons are really about, selling the spin-off toys based off the cartoons!

Because any Batgirl Merchandise is considered batman Merchandise. And for as much as Wonder Woman's comics sales suck her merchandise makes way more than most comics do.

[batGRRRl4ever]

I can see her popularity from the animated Batman series in the 1990's,
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81896&d=1312650371
but there may be hesitation on DC's part after the mixed results from the live-action Birds of Prey TV show on the WB. (Even though that was . . . what . . . close to maybe ten years ago?)

Despite what diehard fanboys & girls may say, despite sharing the name Barbara Gordon either Oracle or Batgirl couldn't be more different in concept. What failed on the BoP show was chaining Barbara to support. The ONLY time that show worked for me was when they showed two flashbacks and the original Batgirl was kicking some Joker cronies & Shiva's butt's! (IMO Dinah Meyer couldn't have been more awesome in the very few times she got to play BATGIRL instead of Oracle).

A solo-Batgirl cartoon (where Barbara gets to wear the bat-symbol) is a completely different animal than anything BoP related. One simply doesn't equal the other in this case.

[batGRRRl4ever]

Because any Batgirl Merchandise is considered batman Merchandise. And for as much as Wonder Woman's comics sales suck her merchandise makes way more than most comics do.

In your opinion. When I go looking for Batgirl merchandise as a fan, I'm looking for BATGIRL merchandise. I don't even LIKE Batman except when he's more fun like on the B&B cartoon.

[batGRRRl4ever]

Yet MORE excitement from fans posted 08-05-11 at the prospect of a BATGIRL cartoon:

http://www.comicvine.com/news/batgirl-year-one-gets-the-animated-treatment/143419/

C'mon WB & DC, don't let us down. The Batman franchise already has a built in fanbase, I hope that this teaser is REAL of a Batgirl: Year One in development! We Batgirl fans would buy the related merch like craaaazy!

[MajorHoy]

A solo-Batgirl cartoon (where Barbara gets to wear the bat-symbol) is a completely different animal than anything BoP related. One simply doesn't equal the other in this case.

That's YOUR opinion. Whether it echoes the opinion of the majority of potential viewers . . . who knows? And even if it does, does it equal the opinions of the people at Warner Bros. Entertainment who control the $'s and would have to green-light any projects? (Hell, do we even know if they like comic book characters . . . beyond any possible money they may make off of them?)

[shark]

The only thing the Birds of Prey show did right was Oracle. The Batgirl suit looked like a joke.

And there's nothing insulting about this short, I don't know where you got that idea.

And if we are talking about iconic female characters in DC, Lois Lane is argueably more iconic than Barbara Gordon. And WW had a very successful live action in the 70s. Batgirl's popularity has always depended on Batman.

[batGRRRl4ever]

The only thing the Birds of Prey show did right was Oracle. The Batgirl suit looked like a joke.

Remember how you were just saying a week ago to be more respectful to different aspects of characters, yet you decide to call Babs/Batgirl's look a "joke"? I thought it looked AMAZING and was the only saving grace of that badly written show.


And there's nothing insulting about this short, I don't know where you got that idea.

Of course there isn't, that wasn't my point. You did read my intro to this thread right? I clearly explained that the implied point by the makers of the cartoon was that a female-centric bat-cartoon was the "joke", which came across to me as somewhat sexist. But of course DC has a history of denigrating their female properties.


And if we are talking about iconic female characters in DC, Lois Lane is argueably more iconic than Barbara Gordon.

And she even had her own comic book way back in I think the 60's. But she's just a girlfriend support character and isn't even a superhero.


And WW had a very successful live action in the 70s.

When you get bumped between two networks I'm not so sure that can be defined as largely successful (although I was a big fan of the show as a kid).


Batgirl's popularity has always depended on Batman.

Oh :biggrin:! It was Batgirl who was brought into Batman's 3rd season of his 60's tv show in a last ditch attempt to save it. It was Batgirl who was taken out of the Batman Family comic to be a back-up to Batman Detective to save it from cancellation. And in the final iteration of Bruce Timm's animated Batman series it was Batgirl who was made to be Batman's fulltime support to make the series fresher and appeal to a wider audience base.

Sometimes it has been Batman who has needed Batgirl, but of course diehard Batman fans are loath to admit this.

[MajorHoy]

. . . It was Batgirl who was taken out of the Batman Family comic to be a back-up to Batman Detective to save it from cancellation. . .

Huh? I use to buy comics back in the 1970's . . . don't remember Batgirl being taken out of Batman Family to save Detective Comics from cancellation. I remember she had a back-up slot in Detective Comics early in the 1970's, and later resumed that spot. I remember when Batman Family was made in to a dollar comic, then got dropped as a separate title and sort of merged into Detective Comics for a while (though some non-Bat-family members like Black Lightning, Atom, and Red Tornado, to name a few few, were also part of that), but I don't remember Batgirl being yanked out of Batman Family specifically because her presence was needed to save Detective Comics.

Do you have any quotes or something that back this claim up?

[Sardorim]

Not really all that hyped since it's only the original....

[shingi70]

Yet MORE excitement from fans posted 08-05-11 at the prospect of a BATGIRL cartoon:

http://www.comicvine.com/news/batgirl-year-one-gets-the-animated-treatment/143419/

C'mon WB & DC, don't let us down. The Batman franchise already has a built in fanbase, I hope that this teaser is REAL of a Batgirl: Year One in development! We Batgirl fans would buy the related merch like craaaazy!

If it does become a reality its most likely going to be a Batman Family cartoon. (like TAS) but with a different promo for each member of Team Bat.

Am i the only one who was more excited for Batman in the Promo.

[ticklefist]

If it does become a reality its most likely going to be a Batman Family cartoon. (like TAS) but with a different promo for each member of Team Bat.

Am i the only one who was more excited for Batman in the Promo.

I thought this was real at first. And I thought his presence cheapened it.

[batGRRRl4ever]

I thought this was real at first. And I thought his presence cheapened it.

DITTO! Heck Batman even sucks all the attention from a room from the likes of Superman & WW, etc. If the original Batgirl ever does get a serious trailer (and just maybe this WAS a sneak peak to a BG:Y1 toon!) let her stand on her own!

[shingi70]

DITTO! Heck Batman even sucks all the attention from a room from the likes of Superman & WW, etc. If the original Batgirl ever does get a serious trailer (and just maybe this WAS a sneak peak to a BG:Y1 toon!) let her stand on her own!

That's the Problem with the exception of maybe Teen Titan you'll never get a Bat family Cartoon with out the Bat himself.

Also if its a Batman Year one Toon Batman kinda has to appear and a robin cartoon seems more likely.

[batGRRRl4ever]

That's the Problem with the exception of maybe Teen Titan you'll never get a Bat family Cartoon with out the Bat himself.

Also if its a Batman Year one Toon Batman kinda has to appear and a robin cartoon seems more likely.

I thought we were talking about a BATGIRL: Year One cartoon, not Batman, :tongue: Also we are talking about Batgirl getting her own independent cartoon, not a Batman Family which wouldn't truly stand a chance as DC/WB is trying with the new 52 titles to consolidate their brands and franchises, they wouldn't now reverse to dump extra characters into a cartoon. They will concentrate on the stars of the September titles.

While of course he would have to have a few little bits in the toon itself, a reminder that Batgirl has always been independent of Batman, unlike any of the Robin's Barbara's Batgirl has always been her own girl, and as such she wouldn't need Batman in her actual promo if she ever is granted one by DC/WB.

[shingi70]

I thought we were talking about a BATGIRL: Year One cartoon, not Batman, :tongue: While of course he would have to have a few little bits in the toon itself, a reminder that Batgirl has always been independent of Batman, unlike any of the Robin's Barbara's Batgirl has always been her own girl, and as such she wouldn't need Batman in her actual promo if she ever is granted one by DC/WB.

I think Dick Grayson has separated himself. I was four when TAS went of the air and most of the reruns i saw had Dick as Nightwing.

[batGRRRl4ever]

I think Dick Grayson has separated himself. I was four when TAS went of the air and most of the reruns i saw had Dick as Nightwing.

I was talking about the comparison of Robin's as sidekick's and the fact that the original Batgirl was never a sidekick, she was always independent.

You expanded the conversation to include Nightwing, a character specifically made back in Teen Titans for Dick to officially declare his independence as a new identity separate from Batman (considering he became Batman shows how well he did in that regard, lol). The original Batgirl has never required to expand to a new identity (the oracle identity is a separate issue) as she was never a sidekick in the first place, thus negating a need to have Batman in a promo if she ever gets one for a cartoon of her own.

[shingi70]

I was talking about the comparison of Robin's as sidekick's and the fact that the original Batgirl was never a sidekick, she was always independent.

You expanded the conversation to include Nightwing, a character specifically made back in Teen Titans for Dick to officially declare his independence as a new identity separate from Batman (considering he became Batman shows how well he did in that regard, lol). The original Batgirl has never required to expand to a new identity (the oracle mess is a separate issue) as she was never a sidekick in the first place, thus negating a need to have Batman in a promo if she ever gets one for a cartoon of her own.

That's true but as a little kid I didn't know that at a time. Also you Can't really discount oracle as a character.

[Guglio08]

I clearly explained that the implied point by the makers of the cartoon was that a female-centric bat-cartoon was the "joke", which came across to me as somewhat sexist.

How do you know that that was the implied point? I very highly doubt that DC would imply an incredibly sexist message in their own cartoon. I think you're reading FAR too into this. And, as much as you would hate to admit it, Batgirl, despite her supposed popularity, is still a part of the BATMAN franchise. If you dress up as a bat to fight crime, you're with Batman.

[Hromovlad]

or they may have been taking a jab at this sort of attitude from the producers

[pryde15]

I would totally watch this, but I'd much rather see a Batman Famly CGI cartoon.

[batGRRRl4ever]

That's true but as a little kid I didn't know that at a time. Also you Can't really discount oracle as a character.

(sigh) I wasn't discounting the oracle identity as it had nothing to do with the point I was making.

[MajorHoy]

I was talking about the comparison of Robin's as sidekick's and the fact that the original Batgirl was never a sidekick, she was always independent.

You expanded the conversation to include Nightwing, a character specifically made back in Teen Titans for Dick to officially declare his independence as a new identity separate from Batman (considering he became Batman shows how well he did in that regard, lol). The original Batgirl has never required to expand to a new identity (the oracle identity is a separate issue) as she was never a sidekick in the first place, thus negating a need to have Batman in a promo if she ever gets one for a cartoon of her own.

Just because you appear to prefer Barbara Gordon as Batgirl over ANY OTHER CHARACTER IN THE BAT-FRANCHISE doesn't mean you can spout any unqualified nonsense you want to try and make your position seem stronger! Have you answered my previous question / challenge to your statement that " . . . It was Batgirl who was taken out of the Batman Family comic to be a back-up to Batman Detective to save it from cancellation . . . " (see current post # 66)? If you did, I missed the answer.

And now you're making a ridiculous statement about "You expanded the conversation to include Nightwing, a character specifically made back in Teen Titans for Dick to officially declare his independence as a new identity separate from Batman (considering he became Batman shows how well he did in that regard, lol).", but did you read the stories where he became Batman and the reasons why? (And now that Bruce is back, he is reclaiming his separte identity again, isn't he?)

Don't you think you can try to make your case for Babs as Batgirl without being so offensive and seemingly pissing all over every other character?

[shark]

Remember how you were just saying a week ago to be more respectful to different aspects of characters, yet you decide to call Babs/Batgirl's look a "joke"? I thought it looked AMAZING and was the only saving grace of that badly written show.

Oh for Christ's sake. Are you always this defensive? I was talking about the bloody portrayal in the bloody show. Just like Batgirl (and Batman and Robin) looked like a joke in Batman and Robin, Batgirl's costume is ridiculous in the Birds of Prey show, especially because the actress playing her - while alright for Oracle - was way too old to play Batgirl.


Of course there isn't, that wasn't my point. You did read my intro to this thread right? I clearly explained that the implied point by the makers of the cartoon was that a female-centric bat-cartoon was the "joke", which came across to me as somewhat sexist. But of course DC has a history of denigrating their female properties.

There's nothing in this short that can be seen as an insult. You are just defensive of everything that involves Babsgirl and does not meet your standards. I would be elated if Cassandra or Steph got this treatment. You get Babs in animated form - again - and you are still complaining. Do you know how expensive a 3D animated short is? Do you think DC would waste so much money in a 2 minute joke?


And she even had her own comic book way back in I think the 60's. But she's just a girlfriend support character and isn't even a superhero.

And even as a human love interest she's still more iconic than Barbara Gordon. You ask a random person who she is, and that person will know. Ask who Barbara Gordon - even Batgirl - is and I could bet you won't get the same results.


When you get bumped between two networks I'm not so sure that can be defined as largely successful (although I was a big fan of the show as a kid).

Everybody and their mothers saw that show. Stop nitpicking. Fact is that Wonder Woman had a highly successful show where she was the main star. Batgirl did not.


Oh :biggrin:! It was Batgirl who was brought into Batman's 3rd season of his 60's tv show in a last ditch attempt to save it. It was Batgirl who was taken out of the Batman Family comic to be a back-up to Batman Detective to save it from cancellation. And in the final iteration of Bruce Timm's animated Batman series it was Batgirl who was made to be Batman's fulltime support to make the series fresher and appeal to a wider audience base.

Sometimes it has been Batman who has needed Batgirl, but of course diehard Batman fans are loath to admit this.

This is ridiculous. Batgirl wouldn't even exist without Batman. Batgirl's most famous recent show was a Batman show. She was never a main character. Batman is the star, she's a secondary character outside her own comics, just like Robin, And this is true for all Batgirls.

I get it, you like Babsgirl, but you are overrating her importance beyond belief.

[batGRRRl4ever]

....doesn't[/B][/I] mean you can spout any unqualified nonsense you want to try and make your position seem stronger! Have you answered my previous challenge? If you did, I missed the answer.

And now you're making a ridiculous statement Don't you think you can try to make your case for Babs as Batgirl without being so offensive and seemingly pissing all over every other character?

Funny, your the one coming off all nasty and insulting saying I am "spouting unqualified nonsense" and making "ridiculous statements". Just because your a senior member does not mean you can go off attacking and insulting other posters who don't agree with you and be all offensive (your own words). I didn't reply to you before because it's obvious you are flaming and not being cordial. Respectfully, if you apologize for your lack of manners maybe I will reply back.


Oh for Christ's sake. Are you always this defensive? Batgirl's costume is ridiculous in the Birds of Prey show, especially because the actress playing her - while alright for Oracle - was way too old to play Batgirl.

That is your opinion about the actress being Batgirl, I respectfully do not share it. And IMHO, saying things like "C*****'s sake" & "ridiculous" shows a defensiveness on your part. I'd respectfully call that projection. Also I did take a slight offense to the part about Batgirl's uniform being a "joke" because I get it, you like oracle. But you did not follow your request from last week to be respectful to other versions of Batgirl's and seem to be showing a do as I say but not as I do approach to the threads, at least in this instance.

I would respectfully state that both shark and majorhoy look in the mirror before throwing accusations of posters being not nice or fair. It's called glass houses. In my opinion it has been both of you projecting, and I don't appreciate the nastiness. Manners are a two-way street and I am more than happy and ready to engage if you both seem fit to apologize for your rudeness. Otherwise I respectfully choose to ignore further posts.

[shingi70]

What's wrong with the actress playing Oracle. The show takes place years after the Killing Joke and Batman had disappeared.

[batGRRRl4ever]

What's wrong with the actress playing Oracle. The show takes place years after the Killing Joke and Batman had disappeared.

Absolutely nothing. She was a great actress either way, I just preferred the very few scenes she had as Batgirl being a Batgirl fan. It's apples and oranges, say we get a Batgirl cartoon and it stays true to the new 52 Batgirl come September. She'd be Batgirl but with just a few short oracle flashbacks. For fans of oracle I bet they'd be keeping their eyes peeled for those flashbacks in this potential cartoon, same as I did with Batgirl in the BoP tv show. Apples and oranges.

[shark]

That is your opinion about the actress being Batgirl, I respectfully do not share it. And IMHO, saying things like "C*****'s sake" & "ridiculous" shows a defensiveness on your part. I'd respectfully call that projection. Also I did take a slight offense to the part about Batgirl's uniform being a "joke" because I get it, you like oracle. But you did not follow your request from last week to be respectful to other versions of Batgirl's and seem to be showing a do as I say but not as I do approach to the threads, at least in this instance.

I would respectfully state that both shark and majorhoy look in the mirror before throwing accusations of posters being not nice or fair. It's called glass houses. In my opinion it has been both of you projecting, and I don't appreciate the nastiness. Manners are a two-way street and I am more than happy and ready to engage if you both seem fit to apologize for your rudeness. Otherwise I respectfully choose to ignore further posts.

You implied I wasn't being respectful to Barbara Gordon as a character, which is a lie. That's like saying I don't respect the character of Batman because he was ridiculous in Batman and Robin. You are finding offense when there's none. The costume looked ridiculous to me, the actress looked wrong as Batgirl to me. Of course this is an opinion, isn't what this is all about?

You being so defensive over anything you consider a slight towards Babsgirl and taking offense every time somebody disagrees with you is what makes people not take you seriously. Don't blame me for your lack of arguments.


What's wrong with the actress playing Oracle. The show takes place years after the Killing Joke and Batman had disappeared.

She was perfect for Oracle, but not for Batgirl. That was my point, A woman that looks like she's in her thirties can't play Batgirl for obvious reasons. The costume didn't help.

[MajorHoy]

Funny, your the one coming off all nasty and insulting saying I am "spouting unqualified nonsense" and making "ridiculous statements". Just because your a senior member does not mean you can go off attacking and insulting other posters who don't agree with you and be all offensive (your own words). I didn't reply to you before because it's obvious you are flaming and not being cordial. Respectfully, if you apologize for your lack of manners maybe I will reply back.

My original post was as follows:

Huh? I use to buy comics back in the 1970's . . . don't remember Batgirl being taken out of Batman Family to save Detective Comics from cancellation. I remember she had a back-up slot in Detective Comics early in the 1970's, and later resumed that spot. I remember when Batman Family was made in to a dollar comic, then got dropped as a separate title and sort of merged into Detective Comics for a while (though some non-Bat-family members like Black Lightning, Atom, and Red Tornado, to name a few few, were also part of that), but I don't remember Batgirl being yanked out of Batman Family specifically because her presence was needed to save Detective Comics.

Do you have any quotes or something that back this claim up?

I do not see how that qualifies as " . . . it's obvious you are flaming and not being cordial. Respectfully, if you apologize for your lack of manners maybe I will reply back."

I see no reason why I should apologize for that. It was a simple "I don't remember it the way you are presenting it . . . do you have any proof for your claim?" I haven't seen any proof yet on your part, and I don't think my posts qualify as "flaming", while your posts seem to have annoyed quite a few people as being less-than-respectful. You appear to have a chip on your shoulder, and any comment that might possibly not agree with you 100% seems to be "flaming" you. I fail to see how your attitude is likely to be a winning one rather than an annoying one that is more likely to alienate people from your opinion (no matter how much some people may have been willing to see some things your way).

[batGRRRl4ever]

You implied I wasn't being respectful to Barbara Gordon as a character, which is a lie. The costume looked ridiculous to me, the actress looked wrong as Batgirl to me.

You being so defensive over anything...and taking offense every time somebody disagrees with you is what makes people not take you seriously.

She was perfect for Oracle, but not for Batgirl. That was my point, A woman that looks like she's in her thirties can't play Batgirl for obvious reasons. The costume didn't help.

Your last point, her age has nothing to do with it (my opinion) Barbara will always be Batgirl even in a flashforward I'd bet.

The second point about you again projecting defensiveness:

http://blogs.roanoke.com/vignette/files/2010/02/jaws-2.jpg

I respectfully say that you really do put out a "do as I say but not as I do" approach to the threads. And as you seem to think you do not need to be cordial to other posters as you expect in return, this site has the wonderful "ignore poster" option to which I have just added you to. I already expect you will say something snarky like I will eventually have everyone ignored on my list, yada, yada, but thankfully I will not have to read it and concentrate on talking with posters who have cordial manners.

[shingi70]

The costume doesn't look bad. And the context of the episode was her facing a villain from the past and redonning the suit. It makes sense she wouldn't look the same as a 20 year old wearing it.

http://admintell.napco.com/ee/images/uploads/gamertell/birds_of_prey_batgirl.jpg

http://bruehoyt.com/superheroes/DC/batman/batgirl/batmeyer2.jpg

[batGRRRl4ever]

The costume doesn't look bad. And the context of the episode was her facing a villain from the past and redonning the suit. It makes sense she wouldn't look the same as a 20 year old wearing it.

http://admintell.napco.com/ee/images/uploads/gamertell/birds_of_prey_batgirl.jpg

http://bruehoyt.com/superheroes/DC/batman/batgirl/batmeyer2.jpg

Dinah was amazing either way in Barbara's role, in that we can all agree! :smile:

[shingi70]

Dinah was amazing either way in Barbara's role, in that we can all agree! :smile:

Yes we can. I really like that suit its better than the other one. Also has anyone noticed that babs gets the shaft in a lot of cartoons.

[batGRRRl4ever]

Yes we can. I really like that suit its better than the other one. Also has anyone noticed that babs gets the shaft in a lot of cartoons.

You mean literally being thrown down shafts? I do recall Batgirl falling to her death in a fever dream thanks to Scarecrown in a Batman cartoon, & the Joker threw Oracle down a stairwell at the end of the 1st BoP run. Is that what you mean? Has this really been a somewhat theme of late?

[shingi70]

You mean literally being thrown down shafts? I do recall Batgirl falling to her death in a fever dream thanks to Scarecrown in a Batman cartoon, & the Joker threw Oracle down a stairwell at the end of the 1st BoP run. Is that what you mean? Has this really been a somewhat theme of late?

In TAS apart of the Bruce/Dick/Babs fallout is that Bruce started dating his sons girlfriend. Its something that babs wouldn't do.

[Captain Jim]

batGRRRl4ever and shark, if you're going to continue your mutual arguing and insults, please take it to PM. No more here.

[batGRRRl4ever]

batGRRRl4ever and shark, if you're going to continue your mutual arguing and insults, please take it to PM. No more here.

Don't worry sir, I used the "ignore poster" option so it won't be an issue again. I too dislike when threads devolve and hopefully my action will keep it from reoccuring.

[maximiliani]

The problem with a solo Batgirl cartoon, I don't know how long Babs could hold it by herself. Most people argue Batgirl was independent of the Bat-fam, and when she first appeared, she WAS. She was 18+ and basically a woman. She wanted to wear the Batgirl costume and show up, wow everyone, and then surprise everyone that it was her, that even her "bookish" type had wow, a smoking hot bod and was cool.

Since then her age upon becoming Batgirl has been shaved down more and she's been retconned more to the point where she basically is sidekick material, maybe not as sidecar as Robin was, but her independence as a crime fighter is almost null and voided by those retcons. You can't deny it. She really has been infantilzed to the point of being someone who sometimes shows up to help/save Batman, and not much more than that.

[batGRRRl4ever]

The problem with a solo Batgirl cartoon, I don't know how long Babs could hold it by herself. Most people argue Batgirl was independent of the Bat-fam, and when she first appeared, she WAS. She was 18+ and basically a woman. She wanted to wear the Batgirl costume and show up, wow everyone, and then surprise everyone that it was her, that even her "bookish" type had wow, a smoking hot bod and was cool.

Since then her age upon becoming Batgirl has been shaved down more and she's been retconned more to the point where she basically is sidekick material, maybe not as sidecar as Robin was, but her independence as a crime fighter is almost null and voided by those retcons. You can't deny it. She really has been infantilzed to the point of being someone who sometimes shows up to help/save Batman, and not much more than that.

Unfortunately you are 100% spot on. It's so sad to see Batgirl's Women's Liberation origins go through this decades long de-evolution whittling away at her age and independence as a crimefighter.

[Neutrino]

I wonder if Batman Inc. might be on the cards for a cartoon adaptation. It would be so perfect in so many ways, seriously, a JLU based around the most profitable DC character. Dozens of supporting characters to produce action figures of. Not to mention how appealing a show which displays the world's diversity in nations and groups would be to most parents. Educational and awesome. I think it's a no-brainer, but Warner has frequently shown itself to be lacking in the brain department. There might be enough there to get this one thing right though...

Edit: But it'd definitely need to be a 'teen' animation, no sense in portraying the world if you have to stoop to stereotypes because you can't display the real facts. I'm not saying adapt Batman Inc. #7 in all its tragedy, but you need to address the drug problems and unemployment in Native American reservations, even if you have to do it obliquely. Captain Planet ain't gonna cut it.

Edit Edit: Oh, and of course, the entire Batfamily will be present. I'd have Bruce dispatch them around the world to manage the up-and-coming Batmen and Batwomen. Dick remains Batman of Gotham.

[Rud]

Unfortunately you are 100% spot on. It's so sad to see Batgirl's Women's Liberation origins go through this decades long de-evolution whittling away at her age and independence as a crimefighter.Its incredibly hard to be an independent character when the characters entire superhero motif is lifted from a more popular character.

[shark]

batGRRRl4ever and shark, if you're going to continue your mutual arguing and insults, please take it to PM. No more here.

I'm tired of repeating myself, so no worries there.

[MajorHoy]

When you think about it, how risky is this move to give Babs as Batgirl her own solo book?

Has she ever had her own continuous solo title? (I know there was Batgirl: Year One a while back, but was that suppose to be an on-going one or a limited series? Both Cass' and Steph's runs were longer than that.)

[Captain Jim]

When you think about it, how risky is this move to give Babs as Batgirl her own solo book?

Has she ever had her own continuous solo title? (I know there was Batgirl: Year One a while back, but was that suppose to be an on-going one or a limited series? Both Cass' and Steph's runs were longer than that.)

She never had her own book, but she had a long-running backup series in Detective Comics.

[MajorHoy]

She never had her own book, but she had a long-running backup series in Detective Comics.

As well as her runs in either solo stories or team-ups with Robin in Batman Family. But having a long run as a back-up feature does not guarantee success as a headliner in their own solo book.

[supergirls_pal]

I would watch a CGI Batgirl animated series in a heartbeat.

[sethysquare]

Can i just add something, i didnt read the whole thread but i would just like to say how pissed i am about beware the batman not including barbara gordon. I mean im glad katana is in there and reimagined version of alfred. Sure i think its pretty hard to do a batgirl cg but at least give her a lead role in beware? Also im gonna scream if robin is dick grayson again.

[Free-Man]

Can i just add something, i didnt read the whole thread but i would just like to say how pissed i am about beware the batman not including barbara gordon. I mean im glad katana is in there and reimagined version of alfred. Sure i think its pretty hard to do a batgirl cg but at least give her a lead role in beware? Also im gonna scream if robin is dick grayson again.

I'm skeptical of whether or not it will be good, but yes, I am happy they're not once again immediately going back to the Dick Grayson/Barbara Gordon well. If nothing else their take on teen Katana should be interesting.

[Vakanai]

Wow, the CG in this fake Batgirl promo looks a lot better than everything we've seen for the actual CG show they're making. Certainly better than the current Green Lantern one.
Why can't they make a CG cartoon that actually looks that good?

[Zak213]

I'll be open to it even thought i would try to give characters outside of batman a chance. Wonder woman is long overdue for one.

On topic, would you tackle killing joke in the barbara gordon show or would you ignore it? Or would you handle it differently by doing something radically different?

[Vakanai]

The costume doesn't look bad. And the context of the episode was her facing a villain from the past and redonning the suit. It makes sense she wouldn't look the same as a 20 year old wearing it.

http://admintell.napco.com/ee/images/uploads/gamertell/birds_of_prey_batgirl.jpg

http://bruehoyt.com/superheroes/DC/batman/batgirl/batmeyer2.jpg

The only good thing about that show (well, her and whoever played Harley). The rest was crap. Crap writing, crap casting, crap effects. But she just nailed the part of Babs and made it watchable.

[Free-Man]

Yes we can. I really like that suit its better than the other one. Also has anyone noticed that babs gets the shaft in a lot of cartoons.

Not really. With very little exception she and Dick are usually the only sidekicks used in Batman-related media. Arkham City was the first one in a long while to use Oracle and Tim Drake, which was a nice change of pace. I'm also happy to see them doing something a bit different with Beware as well.