Have you noticed how much more powerful people are when they're bad?

[sunofdarkchild]

There's a definate pattern in comics, especially the X comics, where when good guys become bad their powers increase without explanation and when bad guys become good their powers decrease without explanation. It's not like Hal Jordan becoming Parallax and becoming more powerful trough absorbing the Guardians' energy and chronic energy. It just happens.

From a story perpective it makes sense. If Magneto is just as powerful as an X Man as he is when fighting all of the X Men at once he can do most of the fighting for them. That's why Magneto seemed so much weaker in Uncanny 200, the final part of his first reformation, than in Uncanny 150, when he didn't care very much that he was facing all of the X Men. He has to be weaker to give others a chance.

On the other hand it's annoying that we know that these characters are capable of and that they should be able to get out of certain situations or resolve others with ease that they don't for this reason.

Case in point: Whenever Magik is depicted as having gone off the deep end or evil completely in the alternate universes she is depicted as being able to fight off all the X-Men at once, laughing all the way. Nothing short of the Pheonix, and even then only when fully powered, has been able to beat her in those situations. And when the Beyonder resurected the New Mutants she went toe to toe with Thor and two other Avengers, forcing all three of them to retreat. And this is all on Earth, not in Limbo. But while on the New Mutants she almost never shows a hint of that level of power. It's strange to see someone who showed the ability to beat Thor have trouble with random mutant #42.

One explanation is that while being a good guy you're constantly dirstracted and worried about your teammates and any civillains but when a bad guy all you have to worry about is yourself so you're free to be fully unleashed, but that doesn't fully explain why there's so much of a difference between the powel leverls of certain characters when they switch rolls.

[yanapryde]

Could it be....restraint?
Human compassion?
Fear of hurting someone?
I dunno...

[sunofdarkchild]

Could it be....restraint?
Human compassion?
Fear of hurting someone?
I dunno...

As I said, that's definately part of it.

For instance, in the Demon Bear story arc Illyana could have destroyed the bear with ease if she was alone, but she had maintain her shield around Dani, worry about the bear's hostages/pawns, and about the New Mutants. The extent to which she was restrained there made sense, and it was ironic that the presence of the New Mutants made victory less likely. But that's an exception.

[Mia]

One explanation is that while being a good guy you're constantly dirstracted and worried about your teammates and any civillains but when a bad guy all you have to worry about is yourself so you're free to be fully unleashed, but that doesn't fully explain why there's so much of a difference between the powel leverls of certain characters when they switch rolls.

I know that you are talking about power levels. But when I think of a former good guy becoming more powerful when he becomes bad. I think of it in terms of restraint. When a hero decides to become bad, he only becomes more powerful because he or she allows him/herself to cast of the shackles of what they would not allow themselves to do previously.


For me the problem is that there is little use of shades of grey in SH comic books. And by that I mean having good guys realizing that you can't always be 'good' to get the job done. Sometimes you have to get your hands dirty and use nefarious methods for the greater good. It's why I love Batman (Bruce Wayne) and (the old) Emma Frost.

[Filthy Mutie]

It's a lack of inhibitions.

I'm way more powerful when I'm partying than when I'm walking home from the gym.

[Flick]

I would argue that you even feel more powerful when you are doing bad stuff.

[Tommy X]

Well I can understand that as a good guy characters have more restrain and hold back from using their powers in more ruthless and less controlled ways. So this could be used to explain why good guy becomes more powerful when they turn into a bad guy but I personally I don't see that working as well in reverse. That's why I'd like that writers used some plot device to reduce the bad guy's powers when they turn them into good guys because it seems pretty stupid that after Magneto for example turns into a hero he's suddenly alot weaker without any real explanation.

[Washout]

The X-men should all go bad, so their fans will finally be satisfied.

[Scavenger]

They often tend to dress sluttier, too.

[The_Greatest_Username]

Polaris Week: People are much more powerful when they're bad (or crazy).

[worstblogever]

I think the X-baddies in "First to Last" disprove that. It's a whole team of barely-that-powerful villains.

Dragoness, Masque, Bliss, Litterbug, and Toad. TOAD is the powerhouse of that group.

So yeah, not all villains get uber-powers.

[sunofdarkchild]

I think the X-baddies in "First to Last" disprove that. It's a whole team of barely-that-powerful villains.

Dragoness, Masque, Bliss, Litterbug, and Toad. TOAD is the powerhouse of that group.

So yeah, not all villains get uber-powers.

Not what I'm saying at all. People who have been both heroes and villains tend to be much more powerful as the latter. I don't know if any of your examples were ever good guys, and even if some of them were that doesn't disprove the point. It's a trend, not a law.

[eurazn]

This happens in Star Trek, too. One crew member goes bad and suddenly they're able to override every single system on the ship from a remote access point in the mess hall.

Sorry, I just made things nerdier, didn't I?

[worstblogever]

Not what I'm saying at all. People who have been both heroes and villains tend to be much more powerful as the latter. I don't know if any of your examples were ever good guys, and even if some of them were that doesn't disprove the point. It's a trend, not a law.

When good guys go bad? Oh, well yeah, that's a old staple that really seems to have come to full blossom during "Dark Phoenix Saga", and writers have tried to capture that same magic since. Whether it's Sue Richards as her own version of Malice, or Polaris w/ the other other Malice.

Hang on, I think TV Tropes has a whole file on this.

Yup. Super-Powered Evil Side (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SuperPoweredEvilSide)

[sunofdarkchild]

This happens in Star Trek, too. One crew member goes bad and suddenly they're able to override every single system on the ship from a remote access point in the mess hall.

Sorry, I just made things nerdier, didn't I?

Wesly and Barcly?

Somehow that's less awesome than Darkchylde telling Pheonix "You ain't it!" when Pheonix tells her to pick on someone her own size.

[eurazn]

Wesly and Barcly?

Somehow that's less awesome than Darkchylde telling Pheonix "You ain't it!" when Pheonix tells her to pick on someone her own size.

There was also that episode in which Seven of Nine (who had already turned "good" at this point) took over the ship.

[Washout]

Rogue beat the Avengers when she was bad. She goes into comas when she's good.

[Powerboy]

There's a definate pattern in comics, especially the X comics, where when good guys become bad their powers increase without explanation and when bad guys become good their powers decrease without explanation. It's not like Hal Jordan becoming Parallax and becoming more powerful trough absorbing the Guardians' energy and chronic energy. It just happens.


I'm rereading the early X-Men now. There are a variety of reasons but, as you said, a major reason is that it is often a single villain against a team.

Also, I think people kind of like the idea that the hero is outpowered but wins through ingenuity and guts. As much as I love the old Superman stories from the Golden Age, after a while you get sick of the hero always winning because he just plain outpowers the other guy.